To use an appropriate cliche, you have hit the nail on the head. I would argue that hyper parenting has infected some people in smaller cities, such as where I lived in Charlotte, but these parents are in the minority. One of my cousins, a very relaxed mother of five, described the phenom a different but just as interesting way: what happens when you take ex corporate raiders and turn them into stay at home moms of one or two kids? You get fifteen emails about possible snack choices at the class Halloween party (this was in Chicago). Most of us laugh this off. It is hard for some people who always pushed themselves at work and at school not to take that intensity into parenting. Parenting is a different kettle of fish. It is not a competition or a race, no grades will be given at the end of the year, it is simply living, in all of the sloppy fun and miserable glory that life can be.

I agree with sagranade. I have heard ( or maybe read) stories about field trips being cancelled because too many parents want to chaperone, and none will agree NOT to go. Most of us are way too involved in our children's lives. I have a dear friend who's British and she makes fun of the Yummy Mummies -- they sound an awful lot like the freako parents I sometimes run into on the PTA or hear about. I personally don't have friends who are like that because I really try to avoid people who annoy me if I can possibly help it. But we all work(ed) or play with people who are that way. Like slackermom, I would gladly join some kind of a movement where benevolent neglect reigns.

Oh, it's not just an NYC-thing or a DC-thing. It's an upper-middle-class (or wannabe) NYC or DC-thing. For years I've enjoyed reading comments on OB and OP from people who obviously don't understand there are people in the world who DIDN'T come from that environment or live there now. Hey, I grew up in the 60's and 70's in an environment where essentially every mother worked outside the home because she had to to help make ends meet. Fred's mother was a Marine. Now compare that with people like LMS (love you, Leslie :-) who believes that no mother EVER worked before her generation, because that was the case in her environment.

Same with the Moms (and Dads) referenced here, who are way too involved with their kids. They are a relatively small part of the population but fairly common in certain circles, and if you travel or want to travel in those circles that's your focus. Most of us just ignore 'em and get on with our lives.

I think that parenting is more intensive than when I was young. Maybe it seems that way because more mothers work, and fathers are more involved with their children.

Many of the parents I see run themselves ragged shuttling their kids to extracurricular activities.

I have run into many mothers who seem kind of obsessive to me. At one play date I was treated to a 2 hour dissertation by a mother about how she scours food packaging for good ingredients, goes to multiple stores to find just the right type of organic pizza or breaded chicken product.

Another time, I was at a child's birthday party, and the subject of snacks came up. When I offered that I often pack a granola bar, I swear I was looked at like I was abusing my child. The others went on as to how they pack their kinds freshly sliced fruit, organic cheese spread and the like.

Oh well.

First of all, Madonna and Gwenyth hardly resemble the typical US parent.

Like most of the early responders, I have only met a few hyper parents. I also find people are highly critical of any aspect that seems more overly involved then their personal parenting style. While the heliocopter mom, is few and far between, having a parent who is super involved in one or two aspects of their parenting, does not equate to an overall assessment of hyper parenting. I know plenty of parents who are big on organic food but may miss a lot of sports things. Or vice versa. I just chock it up to that is there thing.

Also you probably see more parents hyper vigilant in cities because they perceive more danger in the form of kidnapping etc... Not sure if it is true but I think I would hold tightly to my kids hand crossing the street in NYC versus Springfield VA.

Lastly, isn't it the Brits who historically sent their kids to boarding school at age 6. I mean really, the US style of parenting has been different then the Brits for several generations. I think I read a survey once that said the Brits spent the least amount of time with their children. US parents spent the second least amount of time. Hardly an endorsement of hyper parenting.

Honestly, anyone who's taking their parenting cues from Gwyneth or Madonna has bigger issues (how do they even know how those women are parenting? I sure don't).

I'm also curious to know what people consider hyper-involved parenting. Maybe it's because I'm still sort of new at this game (at 2.5, DD isn't even in preschool yet, so I haven't encountered field trips, a pta, etc), but I'm having a hard time picturing what it means.

foamgnome - here's a helicopter parent story for you. I took my two high schoolers (senior and junior) on a college visit last month when schools were closed for Rosh Hashanah. We got a one-hour "information session" and then a 90-minute walking tour of campus. One mother in our group probably asked a dozen questions in the information session, then peppered the tour guide with questions all during the tour. She took detailed notes in a spiral notebook; it looked like she had about 20 pages of notes. At the end of the tour, she asked if she could eat lunch in one of the dining halls so she could really see what the food was like.

My kids had two observations: (a) thank (deity of choice) their parents aren't like that; and (b) which kid was hers, anyway? Turned out this woman's daughter refused to be seen with her mother and had joined a different tour group.

Re: the Brits and boarding schools - yes, that's a custom among the upper classes and upper-middle classes who want to join the upper class. For the working stiff, it's always been "raise your own kids."

I have lived in Europe and in DC, CO and now am in a smallish Central VA town. Three towns can't really all be polar opposites, but wow, these are all very different. One thing in common in the US is that parents are involved. I think (but don't know) that Turner is talking about parents actually literally being involved. I have NEVER met less involved parents than Europeans. I am constantly stunned by their apparent lack of interest in their children's activities. They don't come to sports games, parent conferences, etc. They send their very young (2-3yo) children out to play with no supervision and call them in hours later. I see this in Europe and I see this in my small town which has an abundance of Europeans here.

My brother-in-law is a youth soccer coach in Europe and he says he has seen maybe one or two parents the entire time he has coached (years and years). Can you imagine that happening here?

We have many Europeans friends and much family there and I will tell you that I would never want to raise my kids there. The kids are nearly adults by age 10. And I don't mean that in a good sense! Their knowledge is extremely precocious.

That said, I have seen some kids there that have run wild, no parental support whatsoever, basically horrid kids, and they turned out beautifully as adults. More often than not. So while that kind of lack of support is not for me, it doesn't always turn out bad. Nor does the American way!!

ArmyBrat: Wow that college story is way out there. I think I went to visit all the colleges by myself. But my parents came to drop me off and went to all the parent informational sessions. I think we did get a free lunch the first day.

I don't know if it is true but from what I have read in the paper, the Europeans have a really different view of parenting. They leave babies in strollers unattended on public streets. It is amazing there are not more kidnapping cases over there. Remember that little girl Madeleine McCain. Her physician parents left her in a hotel by herself and she got snatched.

Has the British Empire fallen so far that their parenting can be destroyed by a girl from Detroit and a waif who names her child Apple?

"Has the British Empire fallen so far that their parenting can be destroyed by a girl from Detroit and a waif who names her child Apple?"

Yes.

The sun always sets on the British Empire.

(Sorry, couldn't resist. :-)

I lived in Europe (Sweden) for a while and in the U.S. and we ran wild around our neighborhoods in both cases so it seems to me something changed in the U.S. since I've grown up.

For starters, I find the public schools expect so much more of parents. The homework load for little kids has gotten ridiculous and the assigned tasks cannot possibly be accomplished without significant parental involvement. And when one of my daughters started tuning out in second grade, the school had me put her through a hearing test and behavioral evaluations for what was really a problem of being bored and disinterested in class. I was the same way as a kid and as long as I wasn't disruptive, teachers could care less that I wasn't paying attention!

The same school also gave me a long list of exercises to do with one of my daughters in early elementary school because in speaking, her "r"s and her "w"s weren't always clear. She's since outgrown that problem without my having to put sticks in her mouth and ask her to read lists of words.

My parents had little or nothing to do with my schools unless someone got into a fist fight.

It's not just crazy urban parents -- other institutions are putting pressure on parents (and kids) as well.

How much of the US parenting style is the result of a)too much testing at schools and b)the assumption that every child can/should attend university? In much of Europe, by high school, if not middle school, students are tracked (by choice, interests,and/or abilities) on what kind of schooling they will get. That determined the opportunity to attend university, which in many countries is free, or very low cost to the student. In the US, especially in cities, and on the coasts, we've come to the attitude that all children are college material. Doesn't matter that your kid loves working on cars. That means your kid should be an engineer, not a mechanic. And we can't forget that kid/parent looking to earn that sports scholarship - they will make your kids' rec league a nightmare.

In addition, we now test young children. That means that schools have to give out ridiculous amounts of homework to 6 year olds - they will be tested on it soon. Personally, I'm of the opinion that it doesn't really improve learning, or even memorization skills. It just means that we have more people telling more children that they're not measuring up, when the kids are developing and learning at exactly the right pace for them, as an individual. Parents get hyper sensitive about this, put their kids in tutoring, etc. Not good for parenting, not good for kids, and if you look at the results, the US still tests poorly compared to the rest of the industrial world. Maybe the powers that be will someday recognize that the US didn't reach it's current status because kids did well on standardized science tests. The country grew and prospered because people had ideas, and the courage to pursue them.

That said, I have seen some kids there that have run wild, no parental support whatsoever, basically horrid kids, and they turned out beautifully as adults. More often than not.

Posted by: Stormy1 | October 23, 2008 9:02 AM | Report abuse

Copy that. It's a crapshoot. For more on Paltrow & parenting (LOL!), see today's Celeb blog:

The staggeringly multi-talented Gwyneth Paltrow posts new GOOP message -- eat buckwheat pancakes and tuna that don't taste like the '70s, she says.

The hyperparenting that I see where I live is school and sports-related. Here, it's about which private school is best. I learned, from my own experience and the experience of others, that private is not always better. I have one child in a non-public special ed school (placed through the public school system) and one in public school. I fell into the trap with my daughter while she was in a private school (for pre-K) because so much was at stake (test scores, retention for not keeping the first-grade pace in preschool). The school wanted her to get tutoring (at further cost to me), but she wasn't behind for her age, just behind for their program. The school sent home goo-gobs of homework, which I initially, foolishly, battled with my daughter to complete. Then I got a clue. She's now in a public K and is fine.

My son is fine academically, but I have to push his school to keep certain subjects advanced for him.

As for sports, I keep it to swimming for both right now, and dancing for my daughter. I have seen other parents getting wroked up about their kids' performance during even the basic rec center lessons. I endured enough pitying looks and comments during soccer when the other kids were kicking the ball around and my son was collecting acorns while my daughter was kicking someone else's ball.

But I have noticed that some parents seems to be moving in the other direction, where they are more concerned about their children having fun less concerned about how well they are doing in the extra curricular activites. But it could be that I am gravitating towards the activities that attract more laid-back families.

i agree with foamgnome-- Brits have always been less obsessed with their kids than Americans.

i think DC and NYC parents are obsessed far more than other areas. They have fewer kids, so you can spend more of your free time focused on those fewer kids and there is just less space to buffer you from the judgment of your neighbors. I love having neighbors so close, but yeah, it can be awkward when your child is pitching a fit on the way to the car when your neighbor is sitting on their stoop not 15 feet way. If the neighbor weren't there, you may ignore the kid, but because you want to do your part to maintain a peaceful 'hood, you invest lots of time into trying to figure out what you can do to avoid these scenes.

I think Sarah Palin will have a tremendous culture shock regarding parenting if her family ends up residing in upper NW DC! People will be calling Child Protective services to investigate her family! People are just all up in each others business around here-- because we are all so packed closely togehter, whatever faults you have as a family immediately impact the neighbors, plus they are all too visible to others.

Captiolhillmom - Number One Observatory Circle - sometimes called Admiral House - has tons of space and privacy. It's 9,150 square feet and lots of land. Plus the neighbors are all Navy folk. See http://eyeball-series.org/veep-eyeball.htm Bottom line: nobody's going to complain about any noise the Palins would make.

JHBVA - I've always thought that the fact that the US DOESN'T track kids into college vs. vocational areas in middle school or high school is a plus. It's also one reason that a number of immigrants come here. There's a very large Asian (predominantly Korean) population in Howard County. The Post and other sources have run articles explaining that many Koreans come here for the education. They get an excellent public education and they don't have to worry about losing any shot at a college education because of a low score on a test taken when they were 12 or 13.

From today's WSJ's Juggle blog:

I have had some recent experience with Trophy kids in our office. Our most recent group of interns was the most difficult I have ever encountered, most were unable to work without lots of oversight and reminders of deadlines. One was diabetic, and couldn’t believe that the office wouldn’t stock the proper juices and snacks he needed. I overheard my assistant telling him that “we are all adults here and learn to take care of our own specific needs, and you better grow up and learn to take care of yours pretty quickly.” He was speechless. Needless to say, none of those interns will be asked back or hired in the future. Parents do not do their kids any favors by making them feel entitled. There is a difference in taking good, loving care of your child, and making sure that they grow up to be strong, independent adults.

Comment by taxgirl - October 23, 2008 at 1:34 pm

ArmyBrat1, I also have mixed feelings about tracking in Europe. My second stay in Sweden, I was in a high school language track (kids were all studying 2 foreign languages plus English) and for the first time in my life, I was a great math student because the kids in that track got less math whereas I'd come from an American school where I got basically the same math as everyone else.

But I do think Americans could do a lot more with vocational education because good hands-on skills are great to have and it shouldn't be an all or nothing deal in determining whether you're considered "college material."

On the college visits - I'm doing college visits with my daughter right now - so I can relate to the mom asking a million questions and taking notes. I'm not sure that's a sign of a helicopter parent or just someone who is a hyper-Type A personality. She probably dominates staff meetings or PTA meetings, etc. with annoying questions and no one can figure out how to shut her up.

Anyway - I think parents have to pay pretty close attention at the college visits simply because kids don't always catch on to the pros and cons of each place. I don't think that qualifies as "helicopter parent" activity - maybe more like "informed consumer" activity.

Finally - you should always check out the cafeteria. Not that food is a deal-breaker, but at least you'll know how much extra $$ the kids will need for pizza and ramen noodles.

I have met a lot of helicopter parents
in the last 7 years.

Some won't let their kids eat anything unusual, I know parents who won't let their kids ride on the subway with them because of "germs," I know mothers who think that if every second of their lives aren't structured their lives will be ruined.

As you guessed I am not a helicoper parent. Just one who likes to play and watch her little girl grow up to be a healthy and happy girl.

lgg123 - okay, you and I have different views on this. I've told all the kids that their mother and I already went to college. I just plan to pay; the rest is up to them. The only questions I'm going to ask deal with financial aid, and after 10 college visits with the oldest, and four so far with these two, I can honestly say I've kept my part of the bargain.

I will do research on the colleges on-line so that I kind of have a feel for whether the college is affordable or acceptable, but it's their life - they can live it.

WRT cafeterias - every college we've ever visited seems to have a smart card with the meal plan on it, and some "money" that can be used at other dining establishments and even some local stores. So if the kid misses meals in the dining hall, they have "money" that can be used at campus stores/eateries instead. These kids have less concern about other supplies than there used to be.

(Off-topic: the big new thing seems to be including laundry costs in room & board fees. Colleges got tired of coin-operated machines, and students trying to save money kept breaking them by stuffing every single article of clothing in and trying to do it all in one load. So now there's a charge of 40 - 100 dollars per semester and the machines are "free." Many colleges have also connected the washers and dryers to the Internet, so that kids can check from their dorm rooms whether there's anything available, and whether or not their own loads are done.)

AB -- Free laundry? Seriously? And on the internet? Dang. What's college without saving up the requisite stash of quarters and dimes, and staking out the basement laundry room to poach a machine the second it stops spinning???

Man, these kids today, just don't know how good they've got it. When I was a girl. . . . :-)

Reid's point is important, and we need to repeat it often to counter the steady flow of myopic articles in papers like the Post and NYT about supposed parenting trends. Journalists who otherwise seem like clear thinkers often forget about statistics and make entirely anecdotal cases that helicopter parenting is becoming widespread. Like Reid, I'm even skeptical that it's a significant problem in big cities. I haven't seen evidence that such neurotic parenting is a trend anywhere except among the very rich and those who spend time among them.

The british are the worst. Guess that benign neglect extends to leaving 4 and 5 year olds in hotel rooms to be murdered while you catch up on your paper and "adult" life. No wonder their kids are considered the worst in europe...........

I had heard about parents that took their kids for college visits, but never actually met them- so hey, you guys do exist! Of 4 kids, I'm the only one who went to college-black sheep and all-I got to go to any college I wanted.I just had to pay for it. I'm still paying for it but have a very rewarding career in medicine and would not trade places with the helicopter larvae for anything.
I'm definitely from the other end of the parenting spectrum, anyone remember "Latch-key kids"? I'm guessing that it would be qualified as child abuse today (kind of like the women who let her 9yr. old son ride the subway home).
Wow,hey, let your kids surprise you that they can actually take some responsibility for themselves