I can't comment on Baldwin's book since I haven't read it, but I know enough from a variety of divorces of friends and relatives that there is usually 2 sides to the story and then there is the truth. There are plenty of people that can't get past Baldwin's released phone message to his daughter, but the ones I know tend to be people that can't get past most things. I don't excuse Baldwin's behavior though, and it is up to his daughter whether he is forgiven, not me.

My relationship with my son and daughter are different. Does it have to do with gender? Probably. I am very close to both my parents as is my husband, so we had wonderful role models. We do have very different relationships with our parents though, so while it might make for interesting analysis, we just count our blessings and continue to try emulate the best of both our worlds.

Agree fully with Brian's opinion of the things he should be doing as a father. His responsibilities seem to hit a perfect balance between absent and doting daddy.

regardless if we're speaking of father/daughter or any other combination, i strongly feel that any extreme behavior is not in the child's best interest.

there was a great story in the Sunday Post Magazine a year ago about the father of two girls and their relationship. If anyone has the link, it is an interesting take that i found heartwarming and informative.

"i strongly feel that any extreme behavior is not in the child's best interest."

Thank you for that brave stance. It's advocates like you who keep parents going when the lure of extreme behavior beckons...

The comments of Flanagan's that you excerpted are grossly broad. Every single absent father has that effect on every single daughter? And, by implication, has an entirely different effect on sons? Makes me damn suspicious - I can think of no case where every single person reacts in the same way.

I do think there are differences based on sex. Parents tend to project more on their children of the same sex and for the parents who do that, this has a large effect on the nature of their relationship.

Sure, there are a lot of fathers who are largest force in their daugher's inner life. But there are a lot of mothers who are the largest force. And for some, the largest force isn't a parent at all.

You talk about modeling good relationships. In this case, I think, the gender of the parent makes a big difference. A father models to his children what a husband is supposed to do (and take, and put up with), a mother models to her children what a wife is supposed to do (and take, and put up with. I'm having trouble thinking of a case where the mother models what a husband is supposed to do. Children can break the roles they grew up with but it's quite hard to do - ergo the tendency for children of abusive relationships to be in abusive relationships themselves.

The plural of anecdote is not data, but you asked for perspective: I grew up in a household of mom, dad, son, daughter. Son is a bit closer to mom than dad, daughter rather closer to dad than mom. We all seem to have turned out fine. Son is still closer to mom, daughter to dad; I judge that son is not momma's boy - he's not feminine at all, or clingy, or underachieving, or nonathletic. The daughter was definitely daddy's girl. In this case being daddy's girl meant being good at math, doing lots of sports, and being encouraged to try new experiences. I'd say each child is more like the parent we were closer to as children but I couldn't say if that were cause or effect. Both children are successful in their fields and with healthy relationships of their own.

My question to you is, what do our stories mean to you, or tell you about the relationships?

As a service to our readers, you shouldn't have written a column about a book you haven't read and didn't plan to read. You understand that this entire column doesn't make any logical sense given that initial comment.

Here's something, I've read enough of your columns to know you aren't worth my time.

As a service to our readers, you shouldn't have written a column about a book you haven't read and didn't plan to read. You understand that this entire column doesn't make any logical sense given that initial comment.

Here's something, I've read enough of your columns to know you aren't worth my time.

Posted by: bbcrock | April 23, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Tee hee. ALL of Brian's columns have a dumbass teenage quality. What does this gomer do for a living? Why he is so insecure? How did he get this gig?

I think the parent-child bonds have a lot to do with personalities and interests. I "get" my daughter much more than my husband does; she is the flip side of me as a kid, pretty intense, goes to extreme a lot. I am very interested in the psychological aspect of things, always want to understand why, so I've invested a lot of timing in figuring out what makes her tick and how to meet her needs. My husband, on the other hand, is an engineer by both birth and trade; he is interested in what he can see and touch, not so much in emotions and psychological drivers. Her emotionalism strikes him as fundamentally illogical and drives him nuts. Not surprisingly, she and I have a closer relationship.

My son is the other way around. He is already an engineer-in-training, very methodical, very fact-based, likes to do and touch and explore and understand, doesn't care much about feelings and motives and such. I don't "get" him to the same degree that I do my daughter, and he isn't interested in a lot of the emotional aspects of the relationship that I am. In another 5 yrs or so, I can just see him and his dad working side-by-side on some project, never talking, but somehow having the bond that comes with being two peas in a pod.

"i strongly feel that any extreme behavior is not in the child's best interest."

Thank you for that brave stance. It's advocates like you who keep parents going when the lure of extreme behavior beckons...

Posted by: 06902 | April 23, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

and it's comments like this that improves the discussion, so thank you!

I think the parent-child bonds have a lot to do with personalities and interests.

Posted by: laura33 | April 23, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Smug labelling can backfire.

and it's comments like this that improves the discussion, so thank you!

Posted by: interestingidea1234 | April 23, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

pssst...Captain Obvious, that was kind of my point about your comment...

To me, the father-daughter bond is different from the mother-daughter bond, and the father-son bond is different from the mother-son bond. That's because I can understand what my son is going through, because I went through pretty much the same thing. There are certain things about my daughters' experiences that I can't understand because I could never experience them myself. (Insert jokes about men not understanding women, here.)

On the other hand, there's a great deal of variability within each gender because of different personalities/characteristics. Oldest DD loves English, creative writing, etc - she wants to go into publishing. Middle DD is an engineer in training - it's somewhat typical of her to rant about the English teacher making them write an essay explaining the symbolism of "De Grave" wine in "The Cask of Amontillado" while blazing through her math and physics homework. ("Who says that's what it means? Why? If that's what Poe meant, why didn't he just say so? If he didn't say so, then why is her answer right?")

As a father of teenage girls, I can tell you that there is a special "gender bond" so to speak that forms between dad and dd and it gets more distinct as they mature. It begins when dd says something like this, "Can I ask you something and you promise you'll never, never tell Mommy?" Though the conversations I've had that started out like this are rarely anything other than benign, it does mark the point where dad, if he does accept the condition to counsel his daughter, pledges to keep secrets from his own wife. Thus, the relationship becomes more specialized, or "special" if that's the word for it.

Sometimes I talk with my kids in a role as their parent. Sometimes I talk with them in a role as their father and give them the male perspective on life, And yes, gender makes a difference on how I treat them in a lot of cases. For instance, take these conversations I've had with my kids:

With teenage daughter:
DD: My stomach hurts. I don't think I can make it to school today.
Me: Awe. You need to take it easy and get lots of rest. Poor girl. Can I get you some soda crackers?

With teenage son:
DS: My stomach hurts. I don't think I can make it to school today.
Me: Suck it up. If you don't have a fever, you are going to school. When I was your age, I walked barefoot through snow 5 miles to and from school uphill both ways...

With teenage Daughter:
DD: Daaaaaaady, do you have $5 that you can give me?
Me: Sure, but is that enough?

With teenage Son:
DS: Hey dad, do you have $5 that you can give me?
Me: Getta yob!

There are a lot of other examples of how I treat the girls differently than the boys. When I pass one of my daughters in the kitchen or hall, it's "excuse me" and "thankyou". With the boys, it's a punch on the arm, an elbow in the ribs followed by a small shove or some physical act which not only lets them know that I love and respect them, but gives me the personal satisfaction that I'm considered the "top dog" in the family. The girls will never understand...

I read that review too. I'm sure there are several sides to his story, but it does seem like he's got anger issues.

The mother-son/father-daughter relationship is important because it sets a pattern for future relationships.

People, particularly women it seems, can end up replicating or running away from those first relationships the rest of their lives.

I think the focus on the father-daughter relationship is important because most single-parent households have a mother, so the mother-son relationship is less often interrupted.

We'll let the tabloids tell us if Baldwin's daughter takes up with a handsome lout with a good heart and a bad temper/foul mouth.

I refuse to pass judgement on baldwin. His wife has probably been poisoning his daughter sytematically for years. He I imagine has limited time and rights imposed on him by a court that blatantly favors women and denies men their civil rights of equal time with their own flesh and blood. I can only imagine aching for your daughter and reaching out to her and finding her turned against you by her bitter mom who uses her to get back at you. Sad.

pwaa: true. But the meat of the 'issue' is, well, he married her (or did he? or did they just have kids together?) - in the first place. So um, both sides are part of whatever happens.
It is so incredibly rare for people to change their spots, so to speak. So it's not like perhaps the wife was the little angel, and one day, things changed.
I'm sure you're talking from your own experiences, and I don't have them (I do with a crazy dad, which certainly affected my sisters in a different way than it did me).
But seriously - you lie down with dogs...and all that.