I'm with you, I have no problems telling people, including my wife, when I'm stressed about dealing with my little man. Parenting isn't easy, but it is rewarding. My little man is 14 months old and I stay home with him, it has been a cool ride so far that is not without its frustrations and parts that I could have done without. The other thing that bugged me about Lewis' book (what I have read of it so far, anyway) is that he seemed to be perpetuating some stereotypes of the 'stupid dad' who can't seem to get out of his own way. Personally, I'm tired of TV shows and commercials that depict us as the inept dumbass. Do we have our moments of stupidity, absolutely! Who doesn't? I know moms that have and dads that have. It's time to give that nonsense a rest. Nice post Brian.

Ok, haven't read the book, so don't know if I'd take it the same way as Brian. At the outset, I'll agree wholeheartedly that sometimes dads get a bum rap. There are too many stereotypes of the inept dad out there, too many good dads who are treated with either condescension or suspicion. And I'll also agree that parenting is tough, and that there's a lot of pressure all around to put on a smiley face.

But, ummm, "fleeced"? How, exactly? You made 'em; being asked -- or, God forbid, expected -- to do your fair share raising them is somehow right up there with Bernie Madoff?

Oh, that's right, I forgot: for women, it's all sweetness and light and joy. Because we have that Mommy gene, there is no "tough" part of parenting for us; we just adore being woken up at 3 in the morning, having a remora attached to our boob 24/7, playing the 87th game of Chutes & Ladders in a row. So it's really not fair to expect men to do half, because it's so much haaaaaarder for them. As Bill Cosby would say, riiiiiiiiiight.

Here's a hint: if you want to make a point about how dads don't get the credit they deserve, don't write a book whining about how those same dads are really just faking it.

"Personally, I'm tired of TV shows and commercials that depict us as the inept dumbass."

When you're writing a situation comedy (or any comedy really), generally you need a straight man and a funny man. In shows with married couples, this often manifests itself as the husband being the "funny" man, sometimes depicted as an "inept dumbass". There are a few exeptions to this where a "dumbass" woman is featured - but generally this format is used because sitcoms are created primarily for a female audience (same with commercials). Women watch this stuff. Women make most household purchasing decisions. So smart women are featured with "dumb" men. It's not that hard to figure out. And if you stop taking yourself so seriously, it can be funny.

Wait until you have teenagers to really experience the agonies of parenting. Then you really have to look high and low for the "rewarding" aspects of situation--you lose sleep for entirely different reason, much more painful and far reaching ones, too. Bottom line: taking charge of any human being be it from day 1 to year 18+ is not for the faint-hearted. I think if people really knew what parenting was like, the species would have died off long ago...

Hey Brian et al

You know, this subject feeds into the book I am writing. So far I have the title and chapter headings.

(signed)

Fred
=================================

Fred’s Funny and Fabulous Family Fables

Chapter 1: Yes, there was someone in our lives before your other parent. (No, not your grandparents, we called it dating and they were called girlfriend or boy friend)

Chapter 2: I wasn’t always old, gray, wrinkled, saggy and grumpy. (I called this period in my life BC—before children

Chapter 3: No, you can’t have the car keys. (If I remembered where I put them, it might be a different story.)

Chapter 4: Money doesn’t grown on trees! (OK, mom and dad, I finally leaned that!)

Chapter 5: Music (We knew about Led Zeppelin before you “discovered” them.)

Chapter 6: No the stork did not bring you, you were not the Blue Light Special. (But sometimes we wish we could take you back for a full refund.)

Chapter 7 Children are on loan, they are not yours! (Return them, alive, at 21, for your security deposit.)

Chapter 8: Insanity is hereditary. (If I have to tell you where it comes from, you don’t have children.)

Chapter 9: Empty Nest! (Your old room is now the Daughters of the American Revolution meeting area.)

Chapter 10: If I knew grandchildren were so fun, I would have had them first.

To all of you raising kids -- the WORST PART is when they all grow up, graduate, get married, move, have kids, etc., etc.

My "kids" are all grown - 44, 42, 40, and 37 - with six grandchildren, only one divorce, and I hope many, many happy days.

I really miss the "stupid" or silly things I did with my kids when they were young, but I really loved reading to, and with, each of them as they grew up.

Dads, Moms, et al, ENJOY even the "not nice" parts, the temper tantrums, and everything else, because one day it will all be over, and you will miss it dearly. Raising a child only happens once, and you don't get a second chance.

Believe me.

God bless all the little ones and their mommies and daddies.
.

Amen, Laura33, amen.

Granted, there are some yucky parts of parenthood that can't be outsourced, ignored or avoided. (Cleaning up the cat barf on the rug comes to mind at the moment.)

But you actually DON'T have to "clap like hell at soccer games" because there's actually nothing in the American constitution about having to sign up for soccer or they'll take your kids away. Sometimes if life with kids feels like nothing but vile drudgery, perhaps it's because your list of things you're required to do as a parent is just too long. I just had a delightful conversation with a mom yesterday at the pool where she confessed that she had always secretly hated swim team and so had her husband, and that for the first time in six years she was actually looking forward to summer instead of dreading mostly because they decided to drop swim team which the kids didn't actually like all that much anyway.

After that, I had this conversation with my husband about all the things we would have done differently if we had conformed less and felt less pressured with the kids when they were little. I confessed that actually I hate children's theater with a passion (I'm convinced there's a room in hell full of actors with loud voices and silly costumes performing "the three little pigs" over and over and over) and that I wished I had all those hours back. Sometimes if you hate/loathe/detest/resent something you're doing with the kids, you can actually say no.

Ok, I also gotta give a "good dad" shout-out today. DH has been working around the clock for the past two weeks (450-pp document due tomorrow). Tues. night, DD mentions that she has "donuts for dad" at school Thurs. AM, and can he come? I tell her no, that we need a little more notice so we can plan things out, he's ridiculously busy, etc. I then scrambled to get grandpa to cover.

DH then e-mails me yesterday afternoon to tell me he's rearranged his schedule so he can go. Turns out, "rearranging his schedule" meant working until 11:30 last night so he could go in late today.

Of course, he and I both are in the "I hate these things" category. But it meant a lot to her, so he found a way to make it happen. (No whining, either)

I agree that 'agony' is not the proper word for anything short of sitting in court with a teen who has destroyed his or someone else's life.

Let's be real and call this unhappy stuff - annoying!

One thing I like about Dad's is that they are more willing to ditch the 'have-to-dos'. Truthfully parent's don't 'have-to-do' that much of anything. Those who genuinely don't do anything end up in the clutches of some social worker and get their just rewards.

The rest of us are doing this stuff because we want to, or need to - even when it's annoying.

In sixty years when you're drooling and smell stinky you can only hope that your child will also have an attack of 'annoying stuff they want to do' and come by for a visit.

I think my husband cares about his kids deeply. What he doesn't seem to care about or understand is the amount of care they need. Or maybe he is too self-absorbed? He definitely has a self-absorbed streak.

I have to admit being a bit confused about the distance he maintains between himself and the kids a lot of the time. I tend to be much more involved with the kids when it comes to tending their needs, discipline and generally going out to do things that are more for the kids benefit than all of us.

And I don't think the difference in our actions is because of some natural mother's instinct. I have definitely struggled in figuring out how to be 'mothering' and giving the kids what they need from a parent.

A huge chunk of parenting is thankless and unrewarding. I'm not afraid to say it. But it's those awesome, short-lived, hilarious, touching, fleeting moments in between that make it all worth it. I'm pretty sure my husband and I are in agreement there. In truth, I find it much harder than he does. He's got this endless pool of patience and doesn't feel stress when surrounded by chaos.

So many people seem to have these overly romatic associations with parenting. There is always a certain group who thinks that one thing be it marriage, children, a job, money etc... will be the best and make everything in their life fall into place and are disappointed when it doesn't pan out. Let's face it, parenting like everything else in life isn't really anything magical, it just life. It has its highs and lows. As soon as you let go of your "destination" and choose to just enjoy the ride, life gets a lot happier.

Fred, LOL! How's Frieda?

"We Cover Up the Unpleasant Parts of Parenting..."

Unpleasant parts? Sure, I've changed my share of diapers, gotten barfed on by all of them, endured a handful of back to school nights, gone to concerts where I didn't know if they were tuning their violins or performing "Hot Cross Buns", and put up with patiently listening to words like, "If you aren't going to be a *decent* father, why don't you try *acting* like one?" by an upset teenager, but this stuff is small beans when compared to all the other unpleasantries of life.

I've also held sick children as they cried and wailed for hours, only to find out the joy that comes from having a baby fall asleep in my arms is an unbelievably rewarding experience.

However, last weekend, I distinctly remember my laundry getting washed and folded, dishes done, kitchen floor mopped, lawn mowed, trash taken out, and gutters cleared by my kids as I kicked back in my swivel chair on the deck drinking a beer, awaiting a hair cut from my daughter as my 6 year old read poetry to me from our favorite author - Dr Suess. All for what? Showing up for dinner every night that week and occasionally making a tough decision?

All I have to say is that any father that complains about his role in the American family just. is. not. working it right.

Whacky, thanks for that -- you just cracked me up. :-)

moxiemom and laura both speak my mind.

Perhaps men need a little more education in realistic expectations and this book may be effective in that regard (I don't know I haven't read it). It didn't take me much babysitting as a teen to become very serious about birth control.

That said, I love being a mom, but I very clearly chose this with my eyes open after having plenty of adventures on my own!

I agree, parenting when you boil it down is a thankless, expensive, taxing experience. I think many deep down wonder if they had to do over would do it. I wonder this sometimes, but then the realization of what I would miss is too great and I grind along as do many of you do too i imagine.

"But, ummm, "fleeced"? How, exactly? You made 'em; being asked -- or, God forbid, expected -- to do your fair share raising them is somehow right up there with Bernie Madoff?"

No, the fleeced part is how you are kicked to the backseat, expected to pay for the privilige and put up with a lot of BS. Because that is what being a man after children really is. Think how you as a woman would feel if your husband moved in a new girlfriend into your house, spent all their attention and your money on them, acted grumpy, said they were too tired to pay you any attention or have sex with you and then acted as if YOU were insensitive for complaining...

pwaa - Really because god forbid anyone elses needs come before the man. If you want to be the center of attention, go to your mother's house.

pwaa said: "the fleeced part is how you are kicked to the backseat, expected to pay for the privilige and put up with a lot of BS. Because that is what being a man after children really is."

pwaa,

No, that is what being a parent after children really is. It has nothing to do with being a man.

Justsayin, I wish we had dropped Tae Kwon Do earlier, we spent almost 2 years dragging a 4-5 year old little girl to a packed, smelly class, 3 times a week, all FRIGGIN YEAR because we thought it would cool for her to be a novice black belt when she was 6. What were we thinking? My husband was the one pushing it, but I was the one taking her to most of the classes (with a 2 year old in tow), and I finally had a breakdown and refused to continue. She didn't even really like it! My husband still looks at it as a great chapter in her life, I think he is insane.

I can't pile on my husband though, he is very involved and enjoys all of the chorus concerts, science projects, school plays, sports, etc. We just need to learn to work it like Wacky!

Why are the expectations for fathers and mothers so different in this culture? Fathers who are nurturing, supportive, and involved in their kids' live expect and receive a brass band and a parade. Mothers who do the same get zip.

pwaa - Really because god forbid anyone elses needs come before the man. If you want to be the center of attention, go to your mother's house.

typical woman reaction, put yourself first and the man should just suck on it if they don't like it. Too much oprah for you apparently......

parenting is a huge pain in the butt if you don't take the time to experience the joys.

a lot of dads tackle their to-do list much as i do: get the list and start knocking things off as quickly and efficiently as possible so we can get back to our leisure activity.

if dad jumps into the parenting scene to 'get things done', then it's going to seem like it's an endless set of tasks.

when i slowed down and started seeing the mundane as events instead of tasks and i quit rushing through things, parenthood became a joy instead of a burden.

I think you have the right take on things 1234, just wish I could keep that thought in my head when I need it the most. I spent the first two hours after work yesterday ticking off things on my to do list rather than having a fun with my little girl. I should have just let some of it wait.

I haven't read this book, but the author was interviewed on NPR (came out Monday I think) and he came off sounding like an overentitled goofball. Not that it's anything new, there are alot of people out there who feel that the world should revolve around them, and that when it doesn't, well obviously there's something wrong with the culture worth writing a book about. Couldn't possibly be his attitude that is the problem.

Parenting sometime sucks, but I tend to see my own thinking that is the problem, not the job itself. I think some people are just put together better emotionally for parenting and I'd rather see what I can do to learn from them rather than focus too much on the negative stuff.

Hey Moxie and others!

Frieda is in remission and has hair! All 6 of us are just fine. Our 4 kids are either employed fulltime or going to school fulltime or a combination. All are productive members of society.

How much better can it get for a parent?

"Fathers who are nurturing, supportive, and involved in their kids' live expect and receive a brass band and a parade. Mothers who do the same get zip."

This is because everybody knows that women are biologically engineered with a nurturing gene that compells them to crave the satisfaction from taking care of the needs of others. For them, making and taking care of babies, as well as their husbands, is self-serving.

Men on the other hand, lack this genetic composition and therefore, the effort that we put into parenting is drawn out of devotion to our families, duty, and self sacrifice. So us men who exhibit the nurturing trait are recognized as doing so by far more noble reasons than our female counterparts.

Either that, or there is a serious double standard applied by our culture to mothers and fathers.

Men on the other hand, lack this genetic composition and therefore, the effort that we put into parenting is drawn out of devotion to our families, duty, and self sacrifice. So us men who exhibit the nurturing trait are recognized as doing so by far more noble reasons than our female counterparts.

Posted by: WhackyWeasel | June 4, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

LOL! Following your reasoning, gay men who adopt/father kids are the noblest of parents.

YAY Frieda - I'm picturing her with a gorgeous head of red hair! You made my day!

Posted by: moxiemom1 | June 4, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

I'm kinda hoping for fuscia myself. Goes so much better with the boobie van. :-)

BTW, belated congrats, Fred and Frieda.

Kind of off topic...

Just want to speak up for the dimwit-dad stereotype for a minute. DH deliberately pretends to be that clueless and stupid. It forces the autistic teen in the family to think about what is going on inside someone's head besides his own, and explain what he's thinking, feeling, wanting-from-his-parent, etc.

It also works on the too-bright-for-his-own-good (or ours!) pre-teen. Makes the boys really think through whatever-it-is, and then explain it logically step-by-step. Sometimes they even realize on their own that whatever-it-was was a really bad idea. "Nevermind" is becoming one of younger son's catch-phrases.

Eventually, one of them (I'm betting on younger son) is going to realize that their mostly-really-smart dad is playing them when he pretends to be that dumb. It's going to be *very* entertaining for me to watch them turn the tables on their "clueless" parent. If the older one pulls that off before he's middle-aged, it's going to be a MAJOR significant milestone in his development - on a par with when he figured out that lying to his parents was a possibility.
(Thankfully, we seem to have caught the first few attempted lies, and he's decided that the truth, even if it's not good, gets him into less trouble.)

@pwaa: "I agree, parenting when you boil it down is a thankless, expensive, taxing experience."

Secondo was having a full meltdown this morning (3 1/2 years old, PDD NOS). Hugs and kisses helped stabilize the situation, but weren't helping. Out of some desperation, I started singing "When you're happy and you know it..." A few choruses in and Secondo began to stop sobbing and asked for more. By the time I left for work, he was happily eating breakfast. I went out the door feeling like Superman.

Thankless? Hardly.

BB

I don't feel the need to gloss over the agonies of parenting. Sometimes it can be a bonding experience to talk about these things with other parents. Nor do I think that the agonies and joys of parenting are mutually exclusive or somehow cancel each other out. The fact that parenting is a really tough, exhausting, unrelenting job does not render it a joyless undertaking. The joys come with the territory, and they are not diminished by the agonies. Sometimes, they even might seem even more special or rewarding because we had to work so hard for them. And sometimes, they are complete gifts, undeserved windfalls that come out of the blue.

So to say that you are faking the joys of parenthood just because you sometimes find it hard is just ludicrous. Anything worth having is worth working for. The effort just makes it all the more special Children are no different.

"No, the fleeced part is how you are kicked to the backseat, expected to pay for the privilige and put up with a lot of BS. Because that is what being a man after children really is. Think how you as a woman would feel if your husband moved in a new girlfriend into your house, spent all their attention and your money on them, acted grumpy, said they were too tired to pay you any attention or have sex with you and then acted as if YOU were insensitive for complaining..."

Uh- are you comparing our children to a mistress? How does that make sense?

My husband is just as tired and grumpy as I am. But we decided to have these children together, and now we are both in it together. He doesn't get much time to himself, but neither do I. But really, the kids will only be little like this for a few years. We choose to be happy even though we are tired and the house is a mess.

Who cares if dads think they are getting the short end of the stick?
Women have gotten the whole tree, the danger of getting pregnant, giving birth, a lifetime of listening to the whinning little brats and a husband/dad who thinks watching them for two hours is their job for the year. Let them take over watching them 24-7 and many of them do, but the responsibility for most childcare right or wrong is the mom
that's why you have so many angry women.