"Gotcha being good" works just about anywhere. I've used it on collegues at work, coleaders at Girls Scouts, people at conferences, just reinforcing the behavior that I like, plus it makes people feel good.

"Pick your battles" and "don't sweat the small stuff" is good advice for all relationships.

And, for the record, I don't think that Ms. Munson was trying child-rearing techniques on her spouse. I think she was taking a rather emotionally evolved and brave course of action. She let her husband figure out his stuff on his own, rather than try to manipulate or control him. Bravo!

It's news to me that every couple years someone tackle the question about treating their spouses like toddlers. Gee, who knew?

Patience.

OK girls, I'll let you in on a not-so-secret secret. Simply put, Men are big babies.

We love to be pampered. We like toys, big toys. We throw tantrums and pout when we don't get what we want. Sure, we don't cry, scream or throw things like a baby would do to get his way, but resorting to whining, acting grumpy and giving you the cold sholder is in just about every man's handbook on how to get the most out of a marriage. Why? Because acting like a baby to get our way is pretty effective, especially on wives who are baby centric.

So go ahead girls, treat us like you would a big baby, it works for us men too!

And, for the record, I don't think that Ms. Munson was trying child-rearing techniques on her spouse. I think she was taking a rather emotionally evolved and brave course of action. She let her husband figure out his stuff on his own, rather than try to manipulate or control him. Bravo!

Posted by: JellyBean3 | August 6, 2009 7:58 AM | Report abuse

I agree - I don't think she was treating him like a child either.

I don't think it's such a radical concept (using tactics for dealing with kids on adults). Children have all the same emotions as adults, they just haven't been tempered by life experience. They aren't really a different kind of animal from adults.

My four-year old has taught me a lot about how to deal with someone who is being irrational or emotionally out-of-control.

Actually, from what I'm reading, these aren't 'child-rearing techniques' so much as basic behavioral psychology techniques that when tailored to the individual works to some extent all the way down to turtles and sharks and on up to dogs, wolves, horses, and yes, people. Ignoring behavior you don't want to keep occurring and reinforcing positive behavior (though I wasn't clear whether the woman in the NY Times article used this or not, she should have) is in most cases the best way to deal with many different situations, behaviors, and individuals. Of course that's only if it's used properly, and obviously if the situation is abusive or dangerous there are other things to worry about.

Sutherland has a book called "What Shamu Taught me about Life, Love, and Marriage." She does a good job of explaining some of these theories within the context with working with other people and if nothing else I've found it good in reminding me not to get upset when I run into someone being rude at the grocery store or what have you.

How can you ignore a statement as big as I don't love you anymore? I could see ignoring an annoying behavior like if he is whining about a sports team or leaving his socks on the floor but ignoring that??

sunflower- Did you read the article? It's really great.

stupid, i would like to hear about men treating their wives as children and the howls that would generate. treat your spouse as a child at your own peril.....

I recall reading a review of that Shamu book. I LOVED it. Really opened my eyes. Someday when I have the time, I'd like to read the book.

Menawhile there is the whole Dr. Singer line of thinking that kids should be treated with exactly the same respect that you give to adults-- i.e., no bribes, no positive reenforcement and certainly never any time-outs. HAs such a philosophy ever worked on kids younger than 7?

I also used some of these behavioral techniques when I felt like my ex was trying to drag me into emotional messes I didn't want to be dragged into. So I can testify to their effectiveness but I have to say I prefer having a good old-fashioned hash-it-out respectful conversation. I feel manipulative when I use behavioral techniques and I only do it when all else fails.
Offering praise or gratitude, however, is a good thing when you really mean it and I don't see that as manipulative.

atb2,

Just read the article after reading your message...does make more sense.

wow, just read the original article. One of the hardest lessons to learn for some reason - - - we are each responsible for our own happiness.

I just read the article and had mixed feelings about it. I hope Munson's husband wasn't treating her that way in front of the kids!

I just read the article and am curious if they will still be together in 2, 5, 10 years. Some of the things the husband said and did seem simply unforgivable, so we'll see if Laura can just go on or if she waiting for the other shoe to drop. If it were me I'd be suspicious.

I have friends that had been married for 15 years with 2 kids and suddenly she wanted out, same dribble about not loving him (or did she ever), not being where she wanted in life, felt like she was missing something, blah, blah, blah. She blame hime and his response was somewhat the same, she said I am leaving and he simply said No. She was puzzled, stayed, they worked it out, things calmed down and went back to a "new normal". Unfortunately too many things had been said and they split about 2 years later, the new normal was not good enough to sustain the marriage.

I admire Laura for her endurance, patience, and ability to forgive. Don't know that I would have it in me to do the same for an extended period of time. The way he treated her and the rest of the family was beyond disrespectful. I hope he is humbled by this whole thing and that he behaves himself in the future. I don't think I would put up with that kind of behavior for that long. That is not a criticism of her being able to do it -- it is just a recognition that I don't have that kind of patience, or even the ability to separate myself from the problem. I would be initially devastated by the kind of treatment he was dishing out, and it would have to find resolution more quickly, either by hashing it out with him and having him either return to normal behavior or move out and end the marriage. Kudos to Laura for having the patience and endurance to broker a good outcome for her family. My sense is that no matter what, she can find a way to be happy, with or without that louse.

I agree with JellyBean and others who've said this is not about using child-rearing techniques and, to be honest, think Brian's characterization of it as such shows a certain lack of respect for the self-restraint, patience, and strength Ms. Munson showed in trying to keep her family together. I really admire the way she handled the situation and I think when marriages hit rough spots - whether it be as extreme as separation or not - we all have a tendency to say hurtful things and being strong enough NOT to do that shows respect for yourself, your spouse, and your marriage... and probably makes the downturn a lot easier to recover from (fewer apologies, etc.)

I don't hold out a lot of hope for that marriage in the long run. They haven't learned to communicate. He's inarticulate, and she's making a ton of assumptions about what he's feeling. If they have to settle for a stoic silence because they're afraid of what might burst out if they actually tried to talk to one another, there's not much relationship left to save.

Having reread Laura's article, I still don't really understand what made her husband want a divorce, and what made him go back. I hope she has better insight into this, and that it isn't coming simply from her own conjectures, but rather from an actual conversation with him about what happened?
What if he wanted out because he had found someone else and was involved in another relationship? What if he came back because it didn't work out? These are just conjectures of course, and I don't really know what happened, but these unexplained questions would drive me nuts.

Four months... Hmmm, I guess the four-plus years DH and I spent with a marriage/family counselor was some sort of superhuman feat. I'd never thought of it that way before, though.

Yeah, it takes a lot of energy to work through problems, to really talk honestly about your own feelings, and sometimes even more energy to hear your partner's feelings. Then trying to *understand* what's going on inside someone else's head... For us, a lot of the problems went back to our very difficult and damaging childhood families.

Then there's all the work, work, work, to stop oneself from acting or reacting the same old defensive/aggressive way we did to those childhood hurts. Working to recognize that one's partner isn't doing *that* (whatever that is) to hurt you, but is trying to protect himself/herself from a pain that originated long before we were partners.

It's hard. For us, it was harder to repair our damaged relationship than it would have been to end it. We'd both been divorced before, and we knew what that was. We hadn't been in a successful marriage, but we both really wanted to make ours become successful.

Now, more than ten years after our last "50k check-up" with the counselor (she's been dead 7-8 years), we know what a happy marriage feels like. I won't say we never argue, but we mostly manage to disagree respectfully and work out some sort of compromise. If one of us starts to revert to those horrible childhood patterns and traumas, the other can recognize what's happening, understand why it's happening, and empathize. We *gently* reassure each other that it's going to be okay. We're still partners. We're still here for each other. "I've got your back, and you've got mine."

Sue - Sounds like it was worth the effort. Good for you. It seems most long marriages that are ultimately successful go through some period of really hard work. But I wonder if there are any long, successful marriages out there that were just really easy from the start - where the partners are compatible, have lovely dispositions, no childhood hang-ups or adult issues, where every day is a honeymoon. Are there people out there like that?

I don't know, Emily. It's a really good question. I can think of a few couples I know with well over a decade of marriage, who don't seem to have had rough times - but I'm on the outside, so I don't know how it really is on the inside of those relationships.

I just wanted to answer the negative-Nellies who were predicting the failure of the Munson marriage. I read the same article as everyone else, and I see a lot of hope for that couple.

*shrug* If your spouse, colleague, peer-aged adult is acting childish, I suppose treating them like a child could called for.

But I am fatigued by female managers who apply their mothering skills to their managerial position and think they are brilliant because of it. And it seems the managers who share no actual, practical experience with the people they manage are the ones most guilty of it. So when they pull "because I say so" maneuvers, they look less than credible, because their "say so" actually is something that actually doesn't logistically or physically work, but they don't have the knowledge to see it.

Or when they don't get their way, they pull "I don't want to talk to you right now" (i.e. - we're supposed to take a "time out" or let her take a time out from "naughty" children), instead of having the difficult conversations (that may not be that difficult at all if they took the time to listen and not parent).

These are not child to adult situations, and acting so implies an imperious, non-negotiable sense of right when it may not actually exist. You will chase away your best employees that way.

If your spouse isn't acting like an adult, call them on it. Use "mom" behaviours sarcastically to make a point if you think your marriage will survive it, but otherwise, how do you expect your husband to look at you as an equal?

I too think it's a disserve to describe what Ms. Munson did as treating her spouse like a child. She did draw the tantrum analogy in her article, but what she did was apply a fundamental truth with an amazing amount of grace.

I feel like being a parent forced me to learn more about myself and how I deal with the world than any other relationship has; those lessons are universal, but that's not the same as using parenting techniques on others. While I don't think I have the resilience and strength Ms. Munson does, I think my lesson has been something similar to hers - learning to see the difference between how someone else is acting and how I am interpreting and reacting to it; and learning that we are all, indeed, responsible for our own happiness. That's been huge for me as a parent in particular and as an individual in general.