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Weekend Open Thread

Hey all, I'm taking the weekend off. Let's have a crack at an open thread and see if it works.

If you feel like letting me know what I'm missing or otherwise sounding off, go for it. What's happening?

By Greg Sargent  |  July 24, 2010; 11:21 AM ET
Categories:  Miscellaneous  
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Comments

Have a nice weekend, Greg.

I'll start by reposting my plea from the prior thread:

I think many people do indeed care about energy reform and climate change. But even if that is incorrect, the fact is that these ARE critical issues to both the near-term and long-term economic security of this country. I think the reasons are too obvious to state.

On so many occasions we have heard the Administration and its defenders say that the political reality makes this or that policy initiative impractical or even impossible. I have had grave doubts about those protestations of impotence. But even granting its viability as to what has already transpired, this -- it seems to me -- is indisputably within the President's power. Pretty much entirely within his power. In fact, it is a DEMONSTRATION of presidential power, the lack of which, I think, has been the most serious deficiency of Obama's Presidency so far. This is almost literally a battle he cannot lose. And, if the White House declines to do this, the ONLY reason for it will be an unwillingness to exercise presidential power and authority.

Bottom line: If Obama DOES NOT do this it puts the lie to the previous claims of impossibility on other policy questions. What we will have instead is a feckless and timid Administration which, I fear, is precisely what we have witnessed since inauguration day.

But I could be wrong, of course, so I'll ask once again for you -- or anyone -- to say why Obama cannot to the following:

1. Gone on national TV and announced that energy/climate change is an urgent national priority.

2. Insist that Congress give him a carbon-pricing bill to sign or else Obama will use the EPA to do it without Congressional input.

3. Announce that he will veto any Congressional bill to undermine EPA's regulatory power.

Someone please tell me what is wrong with this idea and why it isn't been done by the Administration. And if there is no answer to that question, then please tell me why the Administration does and should choose to forego this opportunity. If the U.S. DOESN'T act soon our days as the world's dominant power are near an end. The rest of the world is going to move ahead without us and then we will be FORCED to take action under duress. And the economic costs will be far more severe. It is, quite simply, a stupid approach and I implore anyone to explain why Obama should adopt it. Because I truly and honestly don't get it.


Posted by: wbgonne | July 24, 2010 11:33 AM | Report abuse

wbgonne, thx -- I was going to suggest that anyone who wants to should move comments over here from the previous thread...

and agreed, failure on this front would amount to a failure of leadership that dwarfs any others we've seen.

Posted by: Greg Sargent | July 24, 2010 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Here's Rachel Maddow doing a decent rundown of the supposed "Obama Paradox" that's been making it's rounds in the DC punditry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOjFtcPb_2c

One thing that I feel she may have missed in all this is not surprising was the failure in the media in all this - Maddow included. Pres. Obama doesn't decide what a news organization will cover on any given day. He can't tell them what to write stories about, or what message they'll give airtime to.

The WH bungled the Sherrod situation, sure. But the media failed totally and completely in that case. Not only did they not cover it properly (as noted in this blog several times), but also because THEY allowed it to overshadow FinReg reform. Their editors allowed it to overshadow FinReg reform.

No amount of Democratic messaging coordination will get through when news orgs ignore them, and while they still take seriously, and give just as big a bullhorn to the likes of Breitbart for the sake of 'parity'.

Posted by: TheBBQChickenMadness | July 24, 2010 11:52 AM | Report abuse

@wbgonne

Please keep in mind that while Comprehensive Climate Change legislation is stalled (not dead) in the Senate...the EPA has declared Carbon Emissions a threat to public health, and will likely build a regulatory framework for them next year.

That's totally in house at the EPA, as well. All Obama administration. Part of me wonders if getting the EPA to regulate the hell out of CO2 emissions wouldn't be BETTER than whatever watered down mess of a cap-n-trade system we could get through the Senate anyways.

Posted by: TheBBQChickenMadness | July 24, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

I don't think we can stress enough how much impact something like this is going to have on our politics:

"Great scoop from Justin Elliott: Karl Rove's grassroots group raised almost all its money for the midterms thus far from four billionaires."

THIS needs to be announced far and wide, over and over. Not just how much money and the impact it will make, but how concentrated this money is in the hands of a few and WHERE they are putting it.

Plutocracy, anyone?

Posted by: BGinCHI | July 24, 2010 11:57 AM | Report abuse

BBQ: "The WH bungled the Sherrod situation, sure. But the media failed totally and completely in that case."

Just wondering out loud here....

If the administration had taken their time to do a proper investigation into the allegations (as I believe they owe to any employee), what would the media reaction have been when Shirley was ultimately exonerated? Probably by then, FOX would have had the clip on the perpetual loop machine, with all their wacky anchors calling for her head. Probably some "reputable" MSM outlets would have been doing the same, a la Rev. Wright.

One of the really unfortunate results of this whole fiasco is that the administration would have had the media dead to rights, but sadly they muddied the waters, and because of that alone, there will not be any soul-searching in the pundit population that there could and should be.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | July 24, 2010 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Jonathan Schwartz has an interesting Social Security post over at A Tiny Revolution predictingwhat's going to happen in the next big economic crunch: an all-out campaign to blame the crunch on Social Security and social programs generally.
http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/003343.html

Posted by: Maezeppa | July 24, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

BBQChickenMadness:

I posed a link to NYT article yesterday about Congressional efforts underway to enact legislation that would STRIP EPA of the power to regulate greenhouse gases. That is what I referred to when I said Obama should announce that he will veto any such bill. Frankly, if Obama intended to do what he should and if he had signaled unmistakably that he was going to do it, I have a hard time believing that Congress would have shut down the energy/climate bill. Big Oil sure doesn't want EPA doing this instead of Congress. More than that, Obama needs a huge boost in wasta. I don't think he is feared on Capitol Hill; I'm not even sure he is respected. That MUST change. The measures I have proposed will catapult into the clear leadership on theses crucial issues. The only reason I can see for the Administration not to do this if the White House DOESN'T WANT to lead. And if true, that would be positively tragic.

Posted by: wbgonne | July 24, 2010 12:11 PM | Report abuse

@BBQ: I also saw the Maddow segment last night.

I think another factor is the economy. Until we see a dent in the unemployment numbers, everything else will take a back seat. When you're feeling insecure about your economic future, it's a little difficult to get excited about nuclear arms agreements. In addition, it gives repubs the opportunity to keep screaming "where's the jobs?".

Posted by: schrodingerscat | July 24, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

BGinCHI:

I saw that. And it's mostly Texas oil money. So there we are and the question is starkly presented: who's really in charge of the country, Big Oil or the President?

Posted by: wbgonne | July 24, 2010 12:13 PM | Report abuse

@wbgonne

First...I meant "the EPA has ALREADY declared Carbon emissions..."

Second...I think my frustration with the White House is slowly morphing into serious anger at the DNC. Where is Tim Kaine, and why isn't the DNC helping Dems in Congress get on TV and win the message war? I cringe every time I think of what Howard Dean could have done with OFA's email list. It's the DNC who should put together a "Fight the Smears" website. It's the DNC who should be out there on every network, arguing that FOX isn't news, it's a political action committee. It's the DNC who should be helping coordinate the selling of Obama's agenda.

Where are they in all of this?

Third...I'm with you on a big speech, but I think it needs to be on the economy. I think it needs to be more of a rally than a speech. He needs to set a populist, positive, and unintimidated tone....designed to get the party back on offense.

And it needs to announce the creation of a new fight-the smears site, designed to cover not just things like Sharrod and whisper-campaigns, but also things directed at legislation.

How about "Correct the Record"?

Posted by: TheBBQChickenMadness | July 24, 2010 12:15 PM | Report abuse

@suekzoo

"If the administration had taken their time to do a proper investigation into the allegations (as I believe they owe to any employee), what would the media reaction have been when Shirley was ultimately exonerated?"

Oh, the media would have looked HORRIBLE.

But ask yourself this question: What if had been true, and they had replied by saying they wanted to do a full investigation of the matter. So we see 2-3 days of coverage BLASTING the Obama admin. for not firing her (imagine the coverage on FOX)...with them ultimately admitting it was true and having to fire her then.

Seriously, how bad would THAT situation have been for the White House. Whether we like it or not, that (until the tape was proven false) is a totally valid possibility. That doesn't excuse their rash reaction, but at the time...the risk of not acting wasn't exactly nothing.

But I agree, since it did turn out to be false - if they had waited...the media would look even worse than they already do. They would have looped that stuff for days.

Posted by: TheBBQChickenMadness | July 24, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

The Republican Policies, which they are campaigning to restore, have destroyed The American Middle Class.

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/the-u.s.-middle-class-is-being-wiped-out-here%27s-the-stats-to-prove-it-520657.html?tickers=^DJI,^GSPC,SPY,MCD,WMT,XRT,DIA

"From The Business Insider

Editor's note: Michael Snyder is editor of theeconomiccollapseblog.com

The 22 statistics detailed here prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the middle class is being systematically wiped out of existence in America.

The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer at a staggering rate. Once upon a time, the United States had the largest and most prosperous middle class in the history of the world, but now that is changing at a blinding pace.

So why are we witnessing such fundamental changes? Well, the globalism and "free trade" that our politicians and business leaders insisted would be so good for us have had some rather nasty side effects. It turns out that they didn't tell us that the "global economy" would mean that middle class American workers would eventually have to directly compete for jobs with people on the other side of the world where there is no minimum wage and very few regulations. The big global corporations have greatly benefited by exploiting third world labor pools over the last several decades, but middle class American workers have increasingly found things to be very tough.

Here are the statistics to prove it:

• 83 percent of all U.S. stocks are in the hands of 1 percent of the people.
• 61 percent of Americans "always or usually" live paycheck to paycheck, which was up from 49 percent in 2008 and 43 percent in 2007.
• 66 percent of the income growth between 2001 and 2007 went to the top 1% of all Americans.
• 36 percent of Americans say that they don't contribute anything to retirement savings.
• A staggering 43 percent of Americans have less than $10,000 saved up for retirement.
• 24 percent of American workers say that they have postponed their planned retirement age in the past year.
• Over 1.4 million Americans filed for personal bankruptcy in 2009, which represented a 32 percent increase over 2008.
• Only the top 5 percent of U.S. households have earned enough additional income to match the rise in housing costs since 1975.
• For the first time in U.S. history, banks own a greater share of residential housing net worth in the United States than all individual Americans put together.
• In 1950, the ratio of the average executive's paycheck to the average worker's paycheck was about 30 to 1. Since the year 2000, that ratio has exploded to between 300 to 500 to one.
• As of 2007, the bottom 80 percent of American households held about 7% of the liquid financial assets.
• The bottom 50 percent of income earners in the United States now collectively own less than 1 percent of the nation’s wealth.
• Average Wall Street bonuses for 2009 were up 17 percent when compared with 2008."

Posted by: Liam-still | July 24, 2010 12:26 PM | Report abuse

I wonder why Rangel's ethics probe is getting wall-to-wall coverage in the media, while Ensign's investigation is getting virtually no press?

Google "Coburn Ensign" and then Google Rangel and compare the results.

Is this race? Or IOKIYAR? Or both?

Posted by: msmollyg | July 24, 2010 12:28 PM | Report abuse

Slacker. ;-)

Posted by: CalD | July 24, 2010 12:37 PM | Report abuse

BBQ: "But ask yourself this question: What if had been true, and they had replied by saying they wanted to do a full investigation of the matter. So we see 2-3 days of coverage BLASTING the Obama admin. for not firing her (imagine the coverage on FOX)...with them ultimately admitting it was true and having to fire her then."

Two announcements at the outset would have mitigated some of the issues if they indeed had to fire her:

1. We have placed Shirley Sherrod on administrative leave, effective immediately, while we conduct an investigation.

2.) We have requested the full tape and transcript from the NAACP so that we can review her comments in context of a much longer speech.

The second one would have put the media on notice that they themselves were possibly teetering at the edge of "egg on face" syndrome that could have led to some pullback and regrouping by the more responsible press. Granted, it would not have stopped Fox.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | July 24, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse


BP(British Petroleum)is using cheap prison labor to clean up massive gulf oil spill, while Coastal Residents have been put out of work. BP also get special Bush Era Tax Incentives for using the cheap inmates labor.

http://www.thenation.com/article/37828/bp-hires-prison-labor-clean-spill-while-coastal-residents-struggle

In the first few days after BP's Deepwater Horizon wellhead exploded, spewing crude oil into the Gulf of Mexico, cleanup workers could be seen on Louisiana beaches wearing scarlet pants and white t-shirts with the words "Inmate Labor" printed in large red block letters. Coastal residents, many of whom had just seen their livelihoods disappear, expressed outrage at community meetings; why should BP be using cheap or free prison labor when so many people were desperate for work? The outfits disappeared overnight.

Work crews in Grand Isle, Louisiana, still stand out. In a region where nine out of ten residents are white, the cleanup workers are almost exclusively African-American men. The racialized nature of the cleanup is so conspicuous that Ben Jealous, the president of the NAACP, sent a public letter to BP CEO Tony Hayward on July 9, demanding to know why black people were over-represented in "the most physically difficult, lowest paying jobs, with the most significant exposure to toxins."

Hiring prison labor is more than a way for BP to save money while cleaning up the biggest oil spill in history. By tapping into the inmate workforce, the company and its subcontractors get workers who are not only cheap but easily silenced—and they get lucrative tax write-offs in the process.

Known to some as "the inmate state," Louisiana has the highest rate of incarceration of any other state in the country. Seventy percent of its 39,000 inmates are African-American men. The Louisiana Department of Corrections (DOC) only has beds for half that many prisoners, so 20,000 inmates live in parish jails, privately run contract facilities and for-profit work release centers.

Prisons and parish jails provide free daily labor to the state and private companies like BP, while also operating their own factories and farms, where inmates earn between zero and forty cents an hour. Obedient inmates, or "trustees," become eligible for work release in the last three years of their sentences. This means they can be a part of a market-rate, daily labor force that works for private companies outside the prison gates. The advantage for trustees is that they get to keep a portion of their earnings, redeemable upon release. The advantage for private companies is that trustees are covered under Work Opportunity Tax Credit, a holdover from Bush's Welfare to Work legislation that rewards private-sector employers for hiring risky "target groups." Businesses earn a tax credit of $2,400 for every work release inmate they hire. On top of that, they can earn back up to 40 percent of the wages they pay annually to "target group workers."

Posted by: Liam-still | July 24, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Apparently the main donor behind Rove's effort to defeat Democrats in the same guy who swiftboated John Kerry:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-07-23/karl-rove-group-funded-by-swift-boater-more-billionaires/?cid=hp:beastoriginalsR1

Posted by: jandmward | July 24, 2010 1:10 PM | Report abuse

This is how the Daily Beast article starts out:

"He’s back! Charles Simmons, the man who bankrolled the Swift Boat campaign against John Kerry, is the primary funder of Karl Rove’s “grassroots” group that threatens to shake up this fall’s midterms.

The billionaire Texas businessman who funded the Swift Boat attack on John Kerry is back in the saddle—along with a few other conservative money-men—bankrolling Karl Rove’s latest effort to win control of Washington for the Republican Party.

American Crossroads, launched with fanfare as a “grassroots” group in March by Rove and former Republican National Committee chairman Ed Gillespie, raised $3.4 million last month..."

I'm worried about Harry Reid, Barbara Boxer, Murray in Washington state, etc.

Posted by: jandmward | July 24, 2010 1:16 PM | Report abuse

North Korea denies sinking South Korean ship with a 500 Lb Torpedo, but says it will not hesitate to sink all their ships, and all the American ones, with Nuclear Weapons.

Sure is a strange way for them to convince the world that they did not sink the South Korean ship.

Posted by: Liam-still | July 24, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

I will take a stab at them...

"1. Gone on national TV and announced that energy/climate change is an urgent national priority."

I personally believe the liberals let the conservatives turn belief in climate change into a fools smorgasbord. It is believed liberals blame anything they don't like about the environment on climate change.

Why liberals let the argument change from indisputable pollution to this climate change theory I don't know but it was a slam dunk when the focus was pollution. As climate change it's a toss up. If you're going to go on national TV, advertise all the pollution in the gulf... Talk about the brown cloud over every major city.

"2. Insist that Congress give him a carbon-pricing bill to sign or else Obama will use the EPA to do it without Congressional input."

Not to mention Fox, but you have too many conservative Democrats that will turn this into a job killing message too close to the elections. I think this will backfire.

"3. Announce that he will veto any Congressional bill to undermine EPA's regulatory power."

Again, he'd be throwing down a challenge to the right who would have the conservative democrats, Fox and Rove on their side.

The democrats need to abandon the word "climate change" and return to the indisputable argument of man polluting the environment. Pollution is visible.

They need to first make a case against the rights unwillingness to compromise and total commitment obstruct any forward movement of this nation. Prove they are the problem with Washington and not the solution. Their position is "their way or no way at all". That any idea contrary to their failed policies that got us into this mess is termed a "job killing failure" in their view and they refuse to entertain anyone other than them can be correct.

Then they need to make the environment a campaign issue and let the people know you have a choice between big oils policy of "drill baby drill" which is crusaded by the party they own which is the right or you can put more liberal democrats in the Senate which is the only way to overcome the now needed 60 votes to pass any legislation.

You're not going to get Ben Nelsen, Lincoln etc... to support carbon pricing so unless the environmentalist can fight to put 60 democrats in the Senate who will, they can forget about carbon pricing ever passing congress.

Remember, lobbyist and corporations have been made even stronger with that supreme court decision and big oil is at the top of the list of spenders. Supporting any legislation big oil doesn't like is asking to have $billions spent to defeat you next time around. Until they pass campaign finance legislation that will disclose whose money is behind the ads and force Rove to name his 4 $billionaires who now influence all elections, you can forget about a progressive agenda in the Senate.

Climate change = volatile looser...
Pollution = indisputable and only chance they have.

Posted by: soapm | July 24, 2010 1:20 PM | Report abuse

BBQ: "I think my frustration with the White House is slowly morphing into serious anger at the DNC. Where is Tim Kaine, and why isn't the DNC helping Dems in Congress get on TV and win the message war?"

This is an excellent point. Tim Kaine has been largely absent. He may have been a good Democrat for VA, but I don't think he fills the bill nationwide. Hari Sevugan has been excellent, but not enough is coming out of his area. (BTW...why are we not seeing HIM on TV? He is in charge of "rapid response.) Jonathan Alter tried to make the point to Rachel the other night that more effective surogacy from the DNC is needed. She argued that the WH needs to punch back. I think Alter holds the key.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | July 24, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse

I Put Tim Kaine's picture on Milk Cartons across the Nation, several months ago.

So far, he still has not been found.

Posted by: Liam-still | July 24, 2010 1:28 PM | Report abuse

@ Liam = "So why are we witnessing such fundamental changes? Well, the globalism and "free trade" that our politicians and business leaders insisted would be so good for us have had some rather nasty side effects. It turns out that they didn't tell us that the "global economy" would mean that middle class American workers would eventually have to directly compete for jobs with people on the other side of the world where there is no minimum wage and very few regulations. The big global corporations have greatly benefited by exploiting third world labor pools over the last several decades, but middle class American workers have increasingly found things to be very tough."

This is one brilliant observation. They sold us this "Global Economy" but we didn't know it meant the rich would get richer at the expense of the rest of America.

The question is how do we sell this to their middle class and poor supporters. I've never seen a people so blindly lead. They have a guy on SS campaigning for a guy who promises to cut off his check.

You have a guy carrying a sign saying, "keep your government hands off my Medicare" at an event sponsored by the very people who want to end the program.

Where do they find these brainless people on the right and how do they keep them so blinded and ignorant of the fact that the people they believe are the only hope for America is actual the very people wanting the America as they know destroyed?

Posted by: soapm | July 24, 2010 1:28 PM | Report abuse

soapm: "I personally believe the liberals let the conservatives turn belief in climate change into a fools smorgasbord. It is believed liberals blame anything they don't like about the environment on climate change.

Why liberals let the argument change from indisputable pollution to this climate change theory I don't know but it was a slam dunk when the focus was pollution. As climate change it's a toss up. If you're going to go on national TV, advertise all the pollution in the gulf... Talk about the brown cloud over every major city."

THIS!!! a thousand times, THIS!

The argument of "climate change" is TOXIC and a total non-starter. The arguments of national and economic security, and energy independence and clean environment are NOT.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | July 24, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

"This is an excellent point. Tim Kaine has been largely absent. He may have been a good Democrat for VA, but I don't think he fills the bill nationwide. Hari Sevugan has been excellent, but not enough is coming out of his area. (BTW...why are we not seeing HIM on TV? He is in charge of "rapid response.) Jonathan Alter tried to make the point to Rachel the other night that more effective surogacy from the DNC is needed. She argued that the WH needs to punch back. I think Alter holds the key."

Here is reality, there is too much money to be gained and being spent on the pro-corporation/anti-middle class side. It is political suicide and very unprofitable to lead the progressive movement. They have no Fox or anyone who will finance a Fox. Talk radio sponsors are 10 to 1 conservative (sure hate Reagan changed that law).

No matter how loud the liberals scream at the rain their voice will always be drowned out by the powerful ability and money from the right. That supreme court decision put a nail in the liberal coffin unless they can pass some legislation to start taming the noise level.

Posted by: soapm | July 24, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

@suekzoo1 = "The argument of "climate change" is TOXIC and a total non-starter. The arguments of national and economic security, and energy independence and clean environment are NOT."

You hit a home run with this one. The right has made "climate change" parallel socialism. No one knows what it means but we all know we shouldn't like or agree with it...

Posted by: soapm | July 24, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Forget climate change.

Make it about Energy Independence, which is a Huge National Security Issue.

The Military Brass have already stated that, so the Administration should get them in front of Senate and House Panels to push that side of the story, and also put them on them on all the talk shows.

Then attack all those Republicans and Blue Dogs, who are setting up the road blocks, as being soft on National Security. Beat them over their heads again and again, with their own; "Soft On National Security" club.

Clean renewable energy, including nuclear reactors, so that we do not have to continue fighting foreign wars, just to have a shot at getting a hold of some foreign oil supplies.

We fought that stupid Iraq War. Spend more than a trillion on it, which we borrowed from China. Now China, which did not spend a dime, or a single life in Iraq, has ended up getting big oil Contracts from Iraq. They also have gotten the first big minerals mining contract in Afghanistan.

Posted by: Liam-still | July 24, 2010 1:42 PM | Report abuse

@Liam = "We fought that stupid Iraq War. Spend more than a trillion on it, which we borrowed from China. Now China, which did not spend a dime, or a single life in Iraq, has ended up getting big oil Contracts from Iraq. They also have gotten the first big minerals mining contract in Afghanistan."

It would have been cheaper to buy the countries and own the oil...

Posted by: soapm | July 24, 2010 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Obama sends a video address to Netroots Nation:


http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/07/obama-in-surprise-message-to-netroots-consider-what-weve-accomplished.php?ref=fpblg

Posted by: suekzoo1 | July 24, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

@msmollyg : I think it is about 70% IOIYRAR and 30% that the investigation is about 4 months old. At the time, it didn't get much coverage either. You had to look really hard to find coverage. Maddow has been the best. Something about Coburn providing information to the investigation. Also Rangel is up for primary election and ensign is not up until 2014. So write letters to the editor of the natnl papers and maybe we can get more coverage.

Posted by: srw3 | July 24, 2010 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Scientific American on the efficacy and benefits of solar power. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=a-solar-grand-plan

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | July 24, 2010 4:39 PM | Report abuse

On a related note, the EPA considers the risk of natural gas extraction from the Marcellus Shale, a shale deposit in West Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, & New York containing an enormous amount of natural gas, but which may have to be extracted using a technique whose environmental risks have never been thoroughly explored:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/24/business/energy-environment/24gas.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2

Posted by: akaoddjob | July 24, 2010 5:30 PM | Report abuse

" The right has made "climate change" parallel socialism. No one knows what it means but we all know we shouldn't like or agree with it..."


You can imagine what today's right would have done about a proposal to do away with slavery, back in the day..............

Posted by: akaoddjob | July 24, 2010 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Deja vu: political mustard. (At least it's not on the news page.)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2010/jul/23/david-cameron-hot-dog-mustard

Posted by: suekzoo1 | July 24, 2010 6:11 PM | Report abuse

This is a pretty good exercise, and it was on a group that actually already understands the problem with the Arizona law.

"On Friday, at Netroots Nation, a group of immigration activists brought the reality of Arizona’s SB 1070 to Netroots attendees by staging a brilliant piece of street (well okay, hotel) theater. As attendees moved into the auditorium for the free lunch sponsored by Moveon.org., Latino activists wearing pseudo-ICE badges, costume HSA patches and otherwise garbed as “authority” stopped people before they entered the hall to grab their sandwiches and sodas and hear a panel on civil rights in the modern era.

The activists asked people who appeared to be white European in origin

for their papers

Some people laughed, some were confused, some just walked by. One guy I spoke with afterward scrawled the word

PAPERS

on a notepad and was asked

Did you pay for these papers?

Organizer Will Coley explained the action:

Our action offended someone and resulted in 30 seconds of frustration, that was the point. As Americans, we should all be offended by actual laws like Arizona’s SB 1070 that harass and profile communities 24 hours a day. It wasn’t about preventing them from getting their lunch. Profiling and injustice is what we wanted folks to think about."

Posted by: lmsinca | July 24, 2010 7:48 PM | Report abuse

You want Obama to show backbone?!? You've got to be kidding us. He IS the consumate insider. If you expect change from his administration, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

Obama is not one to rock the boat. He can't even get his OWN Justice Dept. to stop pro-actively attacking LGBT Americans. Even AFTER it was determined that extreme politicization of the Justice Dept. was "A-OK" or at least not against the law. He is a super-wimp determined to keep the Status Quo. I wish him a super hemorohid. No, let's make that two! I'd lance his bottom so hard, he could never sit.

Posted by: rjmmcelroy | July 24, 2010 8:08 PM | Report abuse

rjmmcelroy, most of us here think the Obama admin could be doing more, in some cases MUCH more, but your post is like a weird version of Maureen Dowd (just be stronger and everything will get better!), with a strange bottom-lancing fantasy thrown in.

Seriously, do you think when someone becomes President they just start everything in the government from zero?

You know it's complicated, right?

Posted by: BGinCHI | July 24, 2010 8:44 PM | Report abuse

@ BGinCHI

"You know it's complicated, right?"

There you go again, ruining all of our knee jerk fun!

Got back from the UP a couple of weeks ago. Thought about you because of all the bikes. Of course the mountain bike participation is growing rapidly, the local shop/organizer has done an incredible job of expanding and improving trails. And then there are the folks who bring street bikes just to see if they can make the climb up Brockway Mountain. I spoke with one guy at the top, a place called "Skytop",and he was sucking for air!
I could sense his pride in accomplishment however. If you make it to the Keeweenaw BG you'll have to bring your bikes.

Posted by: rukidding7 | July 24, 2010 9:43 PM | Report abuse

From the curiosity department...Fox's Megyn Kelly is there new superstar in the making.
She is still attempting to present herself as an actual journalist although her obsession with the Black Panthers and several other stories have her right on the "Breitbart" edge of Fox.

And so it is with curiosity I see that Megyn actually interviewed Tom Tancredo in a forthright and unbiased fashion.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/07/tom-tancredo-impeach-obama-fox-news-thats-ridiculous-video.php?ref=fpb

Tancredo said of Obama, "He is a committed idealogue, and when you have somebody like that in the White House, it is to me a scary proposition, and I think that we can muster our defenses much more easily to take care of al Qaeda than we can to take care of the president."

Kelly asked, "How is that helpful? How does that raise the level of debate?" She also told Tancredo that "it's tough to take you seriously." Ouch.

Wow Megyn you go girl.

Posted by: rukidding7 | July 24, 2010 10:03 PM | Report abuse

ruk, welcome back my friend. Glad to hear about the avid cycling up that way. We're going to have to aim to get up there next for sure. A fall trip would be nice too.

Did a ride a few weeks ago in WI that was 80 miles and 8000 feet of elevation gain. Talk about sucking air.

Hope that storm isn't hammering you all in FL too bad.

Posted by: BGinCHI | July 24, 2010 11:02 PM | Report abuse

About Tancredo. What a shite, racist opportunist. If the measure of a man is Megyn Kelly's disapprobation, then that's a pretty fair sign that you are a lousy human being.

One hopes for appropriate karma for him.

Posted by: BGinCHI | July 24, 2010 11:07 PM | Report abuse

Robert Borosage points the way at Netroots Nation and it's pretty daunting after years of neglect and a middle class slide downward.

”This country has big decisions to make in the months and years ahead. We’ve still got a long way to go to get people back to work and to get this economy going. We’ve got to build a strong foundation for a new economy that will provide shared prosperity and rebuild a broad middle class. We need to address global warming — and capture a leading role in the green industrial revolution that will transform our lives. Fix our broken health care system whose soaring costs will be unaffordable for businesses, families or government and get our budgets back in order. Redress our growing domestic public investment deficit — in basic infrastructure like sewers, roads, an efficient electric grid, in education and training, in research and development. Balance our trade, and revive manufacturing in America. End two wars and stop spending as much as the rest of the world combined on our military budget. Clean up our politics, curb the influence of money, and reform the dysfunctional Senate. Empower workers and fix our broken immigration system. The daunting check list can go on.

”But one thing we don’t need. We don’t need politicians demonstrating their “credibility” by kicking the elderly and the disabled. We don’t need to fix a Social Security program that isn’t broken. The best “fix” for Social Security is simply to tell the truth about it.”

Posted by: lmsinca | July 24, 2010 11:28 PM | Report abuse

"You want Obama to show backbone?!? You've got to be kidding us. He IS the consumate insider. If you expect change from his administration, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you."

My only problem with Obama is that I generally don't know where he stands on issues. Even if we didn't get a PO, I would have like to have seen him put the full weight of the WH behind one. Even if we don't repeal DADT or pass Immigration reform or tax carbon, i would like to have a loud champion on the bully pulpit making it clear where he stands instead of protecting the conservative democrats by caving in to their positions and introducing legislation close to what they will support.

Posted by: soapm | July 24, 2010 11:29 PM | Report abuse

I've noticed the calls for Elizabeth Warren are getting louder and reaching the halls of Congress. The grassroots movement to place her in position to head the CFPB are working and it shows a way forward for a lot of us. I hope it works and if it does, we'll be empowered to fight back when they try to cut SS benefits. Here's another report from Netroots Nation.

"These last couple of days, I happened to see a couple of pieces by Robert Borosage. The first of these called “Kick the Old and Disabled to Show We’re Serious About Deficits,” is about organizing and fighting back against the deficit terrorist movement to cut Social Security, and reported that Borosage’s organization, the Campaign for America’s Future, “has joined with 50 other organizations (and growing) representing 35 million Americans to form a coalition”, called “Strengthen Social Security.” He also refers to a panel on Social Security at Netroots Nation that will be “inviting the bloggers across the country to help fend off the assault on Social Security, and join the debate about priorities over the next years.”

Posted by: lmsinca | July 24, 2010 11:32 PM | Report abuse

Bernie Sanders, a man of the people.

"And while the Great Wall Street Recession has devastated the middle class, the truth is that working families have been experiencing a decline for decades. During the Bush years alone, from 2000-2008, median family income dropped by nearly $2,200 and millions lost their health insurance. Today, because of stagnating wages and higher costs for basic necessities, the average two-wage-earner family has less disposable income than a one-wage-earner family did a generation ago. The average American today is underpaid, overworked and stressed out as to what the future will bring for his or her children. For many, the American dream has become a nightmare.

But, not everybody is hurting. While the middle class disappears and poverty increases the wealthiest people in our country are not only doing extremely well, they are using their wealth and political power to protect and expand their very privileged status at the expense of everyone else. This upper-crust of extremely wealthy families are hell-bent on destroying the democratic vision of a strong middle-class which has made the United States the envy of the world. In its place they are determined to create an oligarchy in which a small number of families control the economic and political life of our country."

http://www.thenation.com/article/37889/no-oligarchy

Posted by: lmsinca | July 24, 2010 11:53 PM | Report abuse

Yes, Obama is the consummate DC insider, as was LBJ and FDR was the consummate upper-class elite politician of the 30s. Do I need to point out that all these men have had more to do with progressing the progressive movement (sorry, I couldn't resist) than any zealot or hard-liner? Sorry idealists, working within the system works.
Of course, it wouldn't have to be like this if Reid would show the same backbone as Speaker Reed did at the turn of the twentieth century. He needs to use any means to finally kill the unbelievable tyranny a hundred unstable egomaniacs exercise over the democratic process forever... And as long as we're wishing for the impossible I'd like pony that flies.

Posted by: eadsiv | July 25, 2010 12:12 AM | Report abuse

lms, Franken has come out in support of Liz Warren too. Hard to believe there has to be so much lobbying to get the person who is obviously the most qualified and appropriate.

Posted by: BGinCHI | July 25, 2010 12:23 AM | Report abuse

Mr. Sander's home state rocks it's middle-class families with the second highest state income tax in the nation. {Guess who's #1?}.

People in the Southwest part of the state actually choose to commute to New York Cap-District/Saratoga/Glens Falls area to escape the 8% rate!!!

Bernie Sanders is the VT middle-classes' worst topdown, statist ruling-class nightmare.

Posted by: tao9 | July 25, 2010 1:34 AM | Report abuse

lms & BGinCHI,
Rain then heat then hard rain and really hot heat; been to Balto, Boston, Newport & Sackets Hrbr(Lk Ontario) youth tourneys w/ the local girl's lax travel team; nursing a pulled hamstring from summer/oldfa<t lax league; some paddling; work-load off the charts for summer (thank you, Lord); reading "The Stranger"-$.50 hardback copy at the Indian Lake book-fair. Saw "Crazy Heart" tonite at our little ADK movie house, presently in bittersweet love w/ Maggie Gylendall (sp?). Little Red-head @ camp for weekend w00t!

Posted by: tao9 | July 25, 2010 1:47 AM | Report abuse

tao,

What do you disagree with that Sanders said, I didn't see him mention state income tax rates and you are wrong anyway. HI is the highest and there are other states that beat both VT and CA. Link includes a handy state by state comparison of all sorts of tax rates, interesting.

Glad you're having a nice summer except for the injury. Had my towhead this weekend and he's taking after the rest of the fish in the family, swimming laps at 4 and diving for pennies. I think you guys are getting more heat than we are this year, only 5-6 days so far over 100.

http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/tax_stru.html

Posted by: lmsinca | July 25, 2010 8:40 AM | Report abuse

Tom Friedman rounds up some interesting points about the Senate's failure to achieve energy legislation in his Op-Ed today titled "We're Gonna Be Sorry." Two stand out:

"Just as the U.S. Senate was abandoning plans for a U.S. cap-and-trade system, this article ran in The China Daily: “BEIJING — The country is set to begin domestic carbon trading programs during its 12th Five-Year Plan period (2011-2015) to help it meet its 2020 carbon intensity target. The decision was made at a closed-door meeting chaired by Xie Zhenhua, deputy director of the National Development and Reform Commission ... Putting a price on carbon is a crucial step for the country to employ the market to reduce its carbon emissions and genuinely shift to a low-carbon economy, industry analysts said.”

and

"A day before the climate bill went down, Lew Hay, the C.E.O. of NextEra Energy, which owns Florida Power & Light, one of the nation’s biggest utilities, e-mailed to say that if the Senate would set a price on carbon and requirements for renewal energy, utilities like his would have the price certainty they need to make the big next-generation investments, including nuclear. “If we invest an additional $3 billion a year or so on clean energy, that’s roughly 50,000 jobs over the next five years,” said Hay. (Say goodbye to that.)"


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/25/opinion/25friedman.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

Posted by: suekzoo1 | July 25, 2010 10:48 AM | Report abuse

America has become a nation of Instant Solutions Cry Babies.

The voters gave the Republicans twenty out of the previous twenty eight years, to destroy our way of life, and economic standards.

They Gave George W. Bush two full terms to finish off the country.

Now that Obama has not restored everything fully, in just one year and a half, the majority of those American Cry Baby Moronic Voters are done with him.

What the hell use is there in trying to rescue the country from the clutches of the Billionaires" Club, when the out of Work Class are hell bent on turning it over to them?


Posted by: Liam-still | July 25, 2010 10:50 AM | Report abuse

These are the BP weasels, that Republicans back, ans say we should trust to do the right thing for the people of the Gulf Coast?

They still have not come up with any money.

"Ken Feinberg, who was appointed to administer oil spill claims out of the escrow fund, has said he “hasn’t been able to start writing claims checks” because BP PLC has failed to deposit any money into the $20 billion fund it promised to create:

Feinberg, who was appointed to administer oil spill claims out of the fund, said he doesn’t have the authority to force BP to deposit the money, but his hands are tied until it does. “I don’t want the checks to bounce,” he said."

Posted by: Liam-still | July 25, 2010 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Liam,

The escrow terms calls for:

"BP will initially make payments of $3bn in Q3 of 2010 and $2bn in Q4 of 2010. These will be followed by a payment of $1.25bn per quarter until a total of $20bn has been paid in."

Sadly, Q3 2010 ends September 30. BP has not breached their terms...yet.

Weasels!

Posted by: suekzoo1 | July 25, 2010 11:03 AM | Report abuse

More from Netroots Nation:

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said Saturday that Democrats will try to change Senate rules on the longstanding practice of filibusters.
Reid said that while Democrats were still looking at options as to how they would change the filibuster, Republicans' use of the rules to force a 60-vote majority on most items before the Senate meant that a change was needed.

"This Republican Senate has started abusing the rules, so we're going to have to change it," Reid told liberal bloggers assembled in Las Vegas for the "Netroots Nation" conference.

"We do not have a plan fully developed yet, but we're looking at ways to change it," Reid said.


http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2010/7/25/15021/9975

Posted by: suekzoo1 | July 25, 2010 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Sue,

Those BP Weasels sure are spending plenty on TV ads, bragging about how well they are taking care of things, and people, along the Gulf Coast. They even bragged about having set aside the 20 Billion.

They could at least throw in a few hundred million now, so Feinberg can cut some checks for the people who have been worst hit.

BP: We Are The World's Foremost Oily Weasels.

Posted by: Liam-still | July 25, 2010 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Is anybody keeping track of how many hours of air time the Angle affair is getting versus how many hours the media spent on discussing the Bush gov giving up the search for Iraq's WMDs? As far as "screw ups" go, our our scale has somehow gone from: tens of thousands (I count Iraqis as humans too- though no major news networks seem to) dead and a trillion dollars wasted and counting to: one woman gets fired unjustly.
On the Next Meet the Press: "Are the public's perceptions of media bias affecting the public's perceptions of the media's perceptions of bias in the media?"

Posted by: eadsiv | July 25, 2010 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Is anybody keeping track of how many hours of air time the Angle affair is getting versus how many hours the media spent on discussing the Bush gov giving up the search for Iraq's WMDs? As far as "screw ups" go, our our scale has somehow gone from: tens of thousands (I count Iraqis as humans too- though no major news networks seem to) dead and a trillion dollars wasted, to: one woman gets fired unjustly.
On the Next Meet the Press: "Are the public's perceptions of media bias affecting the public's perceptions of the media's perceptions of bias in the media?"

Posted by: eadsiv | July 25, 2010 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Liam - Yup - americans want their mcdonald's sandwich, right now, even if it means a shitesandwich. May be the americans and the rethugs deserve each other.

Posted by: amkeew | July 25, 2010 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Liam, kinda makes one wonder why Bobby Jindahl isn't making a stink about the lack of BP checks coming to his constituents, doesn't it?

Posted by: suekzoo1 | July 25, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

What is it about being in Appalachia and the South East that sucks so bad?

http://www.gallup.com/poll/141539/Hawaii-Leads-Wellbeing-West-Virginia-Ranks-Last.aspx

Looking at the color coded map its clearly divided by geography when it comes to well being.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | July 25, 2010 12:00 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure which americans you guys are talking about. Is it the 10% unemployed or the 20+% underemployed? Or maybe it's the 25% of homeowners who are underwater and facing foreclosure. Or maybe it's just the lost generation graduating from college and not finding jobs. I'm confused. If we can't push for better policies and an energized middle class, what good are we?


We've made inroads but the work is not done and I don't think it's time to rest on our laurels yet, we have to keep pushing. Have a nice Sunday, I'm back to the grandkids as they just woke up and want to know what kind of pancakes we're having. LOL

Posted by: lmsinca | July 25, 2010 12:05 PM | Report abuse

mike, interesting chart! Well-being can't be totally linked to the unemployment rate. My state (Michigan) is in the low end of well-being, which I think is directly attributable to the long economic sickness we've had here. Same for other rust belt states, like OH and PA. OTOH, Rhode Island has high unemployment (4th highest) yet a strong sense of well-being. Coversely, South Dakota has second lowest unemployment rate, but mediocre well being. (That must be the John Thune factor...LOL!)

Did you see Jim Webb's Op-Ed in the WSJ last week? He makes some tough points, and it's not a comfortable read. John Cole at Balloon Juice (who lives in WV) explains it somewhat. Would be great to hear your take on it.

Webb's op-ed: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703724104575379630952309408.html

John Cole's commentary: http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/07/23/webbs-op-ed/

Posted by: suekzoo1 | July 25, 2010 12:24 PM | Report abuse

We are talking about the Majority of American Voters, who showed all the patience in the world with Reagan, Bush One, and Bush Two, while the were destroying the American way of life, but now have turned on President Obama, because he has not waved a magic wand, and restored everything that the past three Republican Presidents destroyed, within his first year and a half of his administration.

That is the sort of of fools we are talking about.

Posted by: Liam-still | July 25, 2010 12:41 PM | Report abuse

The chief executive of BP, Tony Hayward, is finalising the details of his imminent exit from BP this weekend as the oil giant prepares to make an announcement on the chief executive's future possibly within the next 48 hours.

After a weekend of detailed negotiations over Mr Hayward's severance package, it now appears almost certain that he will announce his departure ahead of BP's half year results on Tuesday.


Related Articles
Ships race to complete spill work
Full coverage of the BP oil spill
Special report: Libya, the bomber and £5bn business deals
BP plans for life after Deepwater
BP plans deep-water drilling off Libyan coast
Libyan oil tycoons made £100,000 gift to Tories According to consensus estimates, those results are expected to show that BP has made profits of nearly $10bn so far this year, despite the Deepwater Horizon disaster which has left the oil company facing bills of many billions of dollars.

It is now thought to be widely agreed by the BP board that it is only with Mr Hayward's departure that the company can draw a line under the Gulf of Mexico disaster and plan for the future. The chairman, Carl-Henric Svanberg, is now believed to agree that Mr Hayward should go and that BP needs to announce a root-and-branch change of operational culture.

Sources close to the chairman have said that Mr Svanberg has been surprised by some of the operational systems at the company.

The board is scheduled to meet tomorrow and it only appears to be a last-minute hitch on the politically sensitive severance package that could derail the announcement. The US President and federal government will pore over any details for signs that Mr Hayward has been "rewarded for failure".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/7908628/Oil-Spill-BPs-Tony-Hayward-will-quit-in-days.html

Posted by: suekzoo1 | July 25, 2010 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Sue,

Letterman quipped that he wondered if Tony Hayward was going to really quit, or if he were: "just going to pull a Leno".

Posted by: Liam-still | July 25, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

"Liam, kinda makes one wonder why Bobby Jindahl isn't making a stink about the lack of BP checks coming to his constituents, doesn't it?"

Not me, I am betting he got some large hush money (campaign contributions) that will fund his national ambitions. As soon as they can figure out how to put the blame on Obama they will crank the volume back to 10.

My question is why the Democrats aren't using this to prove Obama was right to demand the fund and that it wasn't a shake down, it was the government doing what it could for the people... And even that fell short... Chicago style shake down, that guys obviously never been to Chicago....

Posted by: soapm | July 25, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

BP are the masters of The Oil Sheik Down. They can even force Governments to release a convicted terrorist mass murderer.

Posted by: Liam-still | July 25, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

"Would be great to hear your take on it.

Posted by: suekzoo1"

I read the Webb piece. I think it was poorly timed in that it might have the unintended consequence of bringing with it the racially charged discussion going on right now. I don't think that was his intent though.

The point I took from it which is a valid point is Equal Opportunity Employment and similar programs came about to overcome what centuries of discrimination had done to further our racial inequalities in our society. This made sense years ago.

This was all mainly the result of the disparity towards black Americans.

Now, what you've got are ethnic groups coming to the U.S. and benefiting from these laws in place when they did nothing to earn them apart from coming from a country of which is not of a white ethnicity. The laws and rules haven't matured with our changing society.

I don't think the laws should be eliminated flat out. I do believe they need to be re-evaluated and determine if they are achieving the desired results.

I'm not sure what the solution might be but, when Shirley Sherrod said she realized it's not about black or white, its about being poor, she was onto something. Maybe the focus should be strictly on economic disparity. Sure, it would probably benefit black American's by a larger majority but it wouldn't discriminate against poor white American's who are stuck in a poor rural grind without the same opportunities that might be granted to their Hispanic or black neighbors.

Maybe its time for an experiment. Maybe a state with high levels of both black and white unemployment should be used as a test case to base education opportunities strictly on economic inequalities. See if there is a better success rate of narrowing the racial economic gaps.

I'm under the same belief that much of these inequalities will go away over time as past generations pass away and the newer generation, which is much less susceptible to the kind of racial taunting put out there by Rush, Beck and Fox, take over the work force and become the managers and leaders in industry, education and business.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | July 25, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

What about a deficit-neutral extension of most Bush tax cuts. Extend below $250K, but create a new higher tax bracket above $1M, and maybe another higher one above $5M or $10M. Seems like with current income distribution statistics, this could be made to work without increasing top marginal rate too high.

Similar principle could be used to extend estate tax at 2009 rates- create a new higher bracket above $50M or $100M to make it deficit neutral.

Posted by: soledad593 | July 25, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

NYT and others have released the Wikileaks docs on Afghanistan. Chilling.

Posted by: KathleenHusseininMaine | July 25, 2010 5:57 PM | Report abuse

Paul Krugman diagnoses the demise of climate-change legislation in the Senate. He singles out John McCain as a coward:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/26/opinion/26krugman.html?hp

>

It's the same John Angry McCain who picked Sarah Palin for his veep. She out-stunk Spiro Agnew.

Posted by: jzap | July 26, 2010 6:40 AM | Report abuse


OK, lemme try PK's penultimate graf again...

Paul Krugman diagnoses the demise of climate-change legislation in the Senate. He singles out John McCain as a coward:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/26/opinion/26krugman.html?hp

{{ There was a time when Mr. McCain was considered a friend of the environment. Back in 2003 he burnished his maverick image by co-sponsoring legislation that would have created a cap-and-trade system for greenhouse gas emissions. He reaffirmed support for such a system during his presidential campaign, and things might look very different now if he had continued to back climate action once his opponent was in the White House. But he didn’t — and it’s hard to see his switch as anything other than the act of a man willing to sacrifice his principles, and humanity’s future, for the sake of a few years added to his political career. }}

It's the same John Angry McCain who picked Sarah Palin for his veep. She out-stunk Spiro Agnew.

Posted by: jzap | July 26, 2010 6:43 AM | Report abuse

All, morning roundup posted:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/07/the_morning_plum_59.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | July 26, 2010 8:25 AM | Report abuse

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