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One of the finest moments of Obama's presidency

A few quick thoughts about Obama's forceful speech yesterday expressing strong support for Cordoba House, which will go down as one of the finest moments of his presidency.

Obama didn't just stand up for the legal right of the group to build the Islamic center. He voiced powerful support for their moral right to do so as well, casting it as central to American identity. This is a critical point, and it goes to the the essence of why his speech was so commendable.

Many opponents of the project have been employing a clever little dodge. They say they don't question the group's legal right to build it under the Constitution. Rather, they say, they're merely criticizing the group's decision to do so, on the grounds that it's insensitive to 9/11 families and will undercut the project's goal of reconciliation. The group has the right to build the center, runs this argument, but they are wrong to exercise it. In response, Obama could have merely cast this dispute as a Constitutional issue, talked about how important it is to hew to that hallowed document, and moved on.

But Obama went much further than that. He asserted that we must "welcome" and "respect" those of other faiths, suggesting that the group behind the center deserves the same, and said flat out that anything less is un-American:

As a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country. And that includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in Lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances. This is America. And our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country and that they will not be treated differently by their government is essential to who we are. The writ of the Founders must endure.

Obama's core declaration here is as simple and clear a statement about what's really at stake in this fight as one could have asked for. Obama argued that an "unshakable" devotion to the notion that all faiths are "welcome" is "essential to who we are," thus casting this as a larger argument over the bedrock moral principles that are the foundation of American identity.

Obama issued this statement in the full knowledge that his opponents have been itching for him to wade into this battle. The right is engaged in a concerted effort to make it politically toxic to stand up for the rights of Muslims -- and to simultaneously insinuate that Obama is on "their" side, and not on ours. This dispute fits the bill perfectly. It's the stuff of Liz Cheney's dreams. Polls show overwhelming opposition to the project, and as Glenn Greenwald notes, there would have been no political downside to sidestepping this morass.

Yet Obama entered the fray anyway, in dramatic fashion, asserting that our identy rests on "our capacity to show not merely tolerance, but respect towards those who are different from us." Crucially, Obama also cast support for the religious freedom of Muslim Americans as key to winning the battle with Al Qaeda, even as he hailed the service of Muslim Americans in our military. In so doing, Obama directly confronted the demagoguery at the core of much of the opposition to this project.

Republicans are reportedly gleeful that Obama entered this dispute. Maybe they're right to be gleeful: Obama's entry will only further stoke passions and ensure that the battle continues, perhaps to his political detriment. But in another sense, this couldn't have come at a better time for Obama. His core supporters, frustrated, were badly in need of a display of presidential spine. They got one.

Ultimately, though, Obama's speech transcends the politics of the moment, and will go down as a defining and perhaps even a breakthrough performance. Obama recognized that this dispute is a seminal one that goes to the core of our running argument about pluralism and minority rights and to the core of who we are. He understood that the gravity of the moment required an equally large and momentous response. And he delivered.

UPDATE, 8:21 p.m.: Did Obama really walk back his support for the project?

By Greg Sargent  |  August 14, 2010; 9:34 AM ET
Categories:  Foreign policy and national security  
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Next: Did Obama walk back his support of Cordoba House?

Comments

Lets see how much credit he gets for it. Ive already seen ppl downplaying it this morning because he didnt similarly weigh in on prop. 8 or Shirley Sherrod.

Seriously.

Posted by: sgwhiteinfla | August 14, 2010 9:48 AM | Report abuse

I didn't see that, sg. amazing. did you like the speech?

Posted by: Greg Sargent | August 14, 2010 9:58 AM | Report abuse

I guess it was a terrible thing for him to do politically, but it was the right thing for him to do morally. Good for him.

I know that this is going to bring out the "I know he's a secret Muslim" crazies - but it's nice to see him wade into the debate and really take a strong stand on the issue.

Posted by: schrodingerscat | August 14, 2010 9:59 AM | Report abuse

This preening self-congratulations is obscene.

The sullen peasants aren't as stupid as faux intellectuals; 80% of this country recognizes this graveyard mosque as a triumphalist symbol, a spit in the face, that will have real destructive consequences.

Posted by: happyacres | August 14, 2010 10:08 AM | Report abuse

All blarney. This just gives Obama the opportunity to indulge in his usual rethorical nonsense, coming across as the moral crusader (ooooops) of our time. The Mosque shouldn't be built near ground zero and the Muslim leaders should be ashamed of themselves for their insensitivity - if they are really interested in healing divisions that is - toward the families of the victims.

Posted by: bernardo2 | August 14, 2010 10:14 AM | Report abuse

All blarney. This just gives Obama the opportunity to indulge in his usual rethorical nonsense, coming across as the moral crusader (ooooops) of our time. The Mosque shouldn't be built near ground zero and the Muslim leaders should be ashamed of themselves for their insensitivity - if they are really interested in healing divisions that is - toward the families of the victims.

Posted by: bernardo2 | August 14, 2010 10:15 AM | Report abuse

@happyacres, bernardo2 - How do you feel about an office building being built directly on "Ground Zero"? Do you feel that is insensitive? If not, why not?

Posted by: DinOH | August 14, 2010 10:19 AM | Report abuse

This was definitely a political risk for him but I thought he chose his words wisely. Clearly it won't impress those among us who've taken a strident stand against the building, but maybe it will tamp down some of the worst demagoguery out there. The country is so divided and out of control right now, it's hard to imagine anything or anyone being able to build the bridge between us. We can only hope.

Posted by: lmsinca | August 14, 2010 10:20 AM | Report abuse

@Greg

I agree with you, one of his finest moments. Especially knowing the political risks and not many rewards he would face afterwards

Posted by: sgwhiteinfla | August 14, 2010 10:28 AM | Report abuse

What will be interesting. CNN has been trying to mainsream extremists like Pam Gellar. Now that she and others have accused Pres Obama of standing with the 9/11 hijackers will they still be welcome on these shows?

Posted by: sgwhiteinfla | August 14, 2010 10:30 AM | Report abuse

did she do that, sg? got link?

Posted by: Greg Sargent | August 14, 2010 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Greg, here's Geller on her website:

"Obama came out for the Islamic supremacist mosque at the hallowed ground of 911 attack. He has, in effect, sided with the Islamic jihadists and told the ummah (at an Iftar dinner on the third night of Ramadan, of course) that he believes in and supports a triumphal mosque on the cherished site of Islamic conquest.

If you had any doubt who Obama stood with on 911, there can be no doubt in our minds now.

I believe he planned it all along. He waited until Ramadan. Symbolic. He has now turned our Ground Zero protest on 911 into a mega-event. The very idea of a 15-story mega-mosque on hallowed ground in indecent, offensive and outrageous. "


http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/

Posted by: suekzoo1 | August 14, 2010 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Oh, that's just a beautiful coinage from Geller: "Islamic supremacist mosque", my feathered rump.

Folk a while back suggested President Obama should emulate LBJ but that just can't happen, the Johnson Treatment was unique to him. To my mind the presidential model BHO can aspire to emulate is that of another scholar: Theodore Roosevelt.

This speech was a TR moment, and I thank you Mr President.

Posted by: KevinShinn | August 14, 2010 11:02 AM | Report abuse

sg and sue,

thanks for that info/link. wow. i had thought there would be an injurious frightwing civil war this summer over general teabagging nuttiness and maybe specifically immigration. it seems that by essentially capitulating to the fringe on most maters, the republican establishment has for the most part avoided public bloodletting.

however, this issue, and the public and unequivocal stance obama took on it last night, will force a reckoning. frightwing republicans will have to take a clear and explicit stand, on one side or the other. no serious people dispute the *right* of the group to build the mosque.

but do *you* believe, because of some misplaced and, yes, xenophobic, nativist, know nothing, bigoted, ugly, and unconstitutional misperception, that we as a country and society can prevent them from building this community center?

if so, you fundamentally stand against the freedoms and rights of the constitution and broader secular and humans thought regarding individuals, society and government. there is no other rationale for opposing it.


Posted by: blahgblogwordpresscom | August 14, 2010 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Truly a bold and honorable thing to stand up for your convictions, and to argue so eloquently. But it's not the first such an argument that was dead wrong. Maybe it's about keeping your friends close, and your enemies closer.

Posted by: Stew53 | August 14, 2010 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Personally, I think it's incredibly insensitive of these planners to build this facility--with prayer room--so close to a strip club and literally next door to a bar.

I mean, how disrespectful can you get? How can someone enjoy looking at naked ladies while knowing that less than a block away, someone might be praying?

People keep pretending this is about Ground Zero, but if a bar and strip joint don't offend ground zero, how could a prayer room do it?

Obviously this is actually about the right of every American to get drunk and look at naked ladies without worrying that someplace a block away, in a different building, some people might not be swimming or watching a play, but might be praying. Why should they have to be offended like this?

Why do we keep pretending this is about ground zero when it's really about the neighborhood's right to protect the bar and strip joints that are closer to this facility than the old WTC site?

Posted by: theorajones1 | August 14, 2010 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Obama's speech is an expected posture from an obtuse ideologue.

Posted by: Washington13 | August 14, 2010 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Wow... talk about exceeding expectations. When this president is at his best, which he clearly was here, it's hard to imagine anyone being better.

This reminds of his case for direct diplomacy during the primary, though this is arguably even more gutsy.

Off the watch the Social Security weekly address. If it's what the summaries I've read make it out to be, it's going to be dance of joy time.

Barack Obama with a pronounced backbone... it's a dream scenario for Democrats.

Posted by: michael_conrad | August 14, 2010 11:14 AM | Report abuse

The leaders of the movement opposing the mosque are as bizarre a bunch of wackos as we are likely to see. Their followers have neither the time nor the desire to actually examine their arguments for some connection to actual fact.

At some point someone has to point out that their ideas are paranoid delusions. I think it's necessary for the health of the country that they don't get their way.

I suspect Obama is counting on sensible rational people to put these high-volume liars back in their box. If they are unable to do that, then we might as well cede the next few years to them and their kind.

Posted by: msh41 | August 14, 2010 11:17 AM | Report abuse

"Washington13", I see an obtuse ideologue posturing expectedly all right.

Posted by: KevinShinn | August 14, 2010 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Finest moment indeed. Disgrace, such an utter disgrace. From someone who was there, who saw the explosion as the plane hit the tower, this decision to spit on the graves of the 3000 plus killed by the Muslim extremists, this slap in the face to their families who live with the memory every day shall not be soon forgotten. Hope and Change are coming. The Nov. mid term elections will show that this country has not been asleep these past two years... Change is coming, and Washington knows it.

Posted by: ObammyGonnaGitYa | August 14, 2010 11:21 AM | Report abuse

I guess this is Obama's little kiss to the Professional Left.

Posted by: sold2u | August 14, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Funny, isn't it, how the Teahadist Constitution Lecturers prove their incomprehension of said Constitution?

Posted by: KevinShinn | August 14, 2010 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Now excuse me, I'm off to glennbeck.con to but me a Constitution Defender t-shirt. That will be more delicious than any joke shirt the Onion has to offer.

Posted by: KevinShinn | August 14, 2010 11:39 AM | Report abuse

The U.S.A. is a country with a BILL of RIGHTS and or a goverment of the people, by the people and for the people which is a nation under GOD but NOT OF ANY RELIGION what so ever. President Obama is correct on this issue. People that want to force their religion on others are wrong and should be watched. All religions must obey American laws includeing the rules of the TAX EXAMPT law.

Posted by: usapdx | August 14, 2010 11:39 AM | Report abuse

@ blagh

Here's that link you wanted last night. Hope it doesn't white out this thread.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-08-12/exclusive-ground-zero-mosque-goes-green/?cid=hp:beastoriginalsC5

Posted by: lmsinca | August 14, 2010 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Well, this should help finish off the democrats. I was wondering when progressive anger at Americans would create a mistake of monumental proportions. In a few days congressional progressives will begin distancing themselves from Obama. They already refuse to be seen with him on the campaign trail.

Posted by: landfall23 | August 14, 2010 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Very nice. I'm happy. More of this please. Much more. (BTW: Obama also gave an address opposing Social Security privatization. Also good.)

Here is yet another impossible suggestion: Why doesn't some alleged TV news channel broadcast these little presidential speeches and then use them as a foundation for discussion? They could even try to get people who actually know something about the topic to bloviate, which would be a huge step forward.

Posted by: wbgonne | August 14, 2010 11:52 AM | Report abuse

The "finest moment in Obama's presidency" turns out to be a self-effacing exercise in political correctness.

Kind of says it all.

Posted by: sold2u | August 14, 2010 11:54 AM | Report abuse

"The "finest moment in Obama's presidency" turns out to be a self-effacing exercise in political correctness."

Awesome....so now the right wing believes the values embodied in our treasured Bill of Rights is nothing more than "political correctness". James Madison would be so proud.

Posted by: schrodingerscat | August 14, 2010 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Sargent is a disgraceful puppet of th eleft-a JournOlister who has no credibility. He also needs new knee pads. Shame on the Washington Post for being a shill for leftist creeps who wish the destruction of our beloved nation.

Posted by: lavistabb | August 14, 2010 12:03 PM | Report abuse

There are two issues here, the legal right and the moral right.

Just because you can do something does not mean you should.

This man has stated his intention to bring healing to N.Y. What he is doing if forcing The people of NY to relive the events of 9/11. Many say only a handful of fanatical Muslims were involved. This is a ridiculous lie. We are at war with more than a handful of fanatical Muslims.

Also on 9/11 as the horrors of the attack was being played out THOUSANDS of Muslims through out the world were celebrating, dancing in the street throwing candy and sweets to by passers. Do a quick search on the internet you will find that ALL the American Networks and the BBC were showing images of celebrating Muslims even as the grim images of Americans jumping out of the towers was being shown on the same networks.

Shortly after 9/11 Muslims leaders came to the United States and said it was our fault.

It may be legally right to build his center there IT IS NOT HIS MORAL right.

There are many places in NY you could build this center why does it have to be near ground zero?

Posted by: justinterested | August 14, 2010 12:06 PM | Report abuse

I agree that this is a great speech at a fine moment for the Spokesperson-in-Chief of American values.

And, speaking in strictly and disgustingly pure political terms, I actually think this will be good for Democrats in the upcoming election.

Obama is supposedly losing the "Independent" vote. It must be Independent Nutcase Vote.

How could anyone of Libertarian Heritage be a Republican these days? Need I say more?

Posted by: freespeak | August 14, 2010 12:06 PM | Report abuse

What has this country come to, that we allow demagogues to blame innocent people for the crimes of others, that we will cravenly tuck tail and allow shrill bigots to restrict the free practice of religion? Shame on those who choose to hate others for their religious beliefs. You betray the spirit of the republic and are not my true countrymen.

Posted by: david48 | August 14, 2010 12:07 PM | Report abuse

@schrodingerscat: I don't think the government can / should stop the mosque.

I do think that if the purpose of the mosque is truly as advertised - a way to encourage peaceful cohabitation with Islam - then they would have the common sense not to build it there.

Posted by: sold2u | August 14, 2010 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Finest moment? Typical clueless liberal this moment will be pinpointed to as his Waterloo not the health care fiasco. Historians of later generations will point to this speech as the beginning of the end of his presidency.

He's done. He is essentially a lame duck president as of today.

Posted by: cleancut77 | August 14, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse


Greg Sargent, professional toady.

Posted by: screwjob19 | August 14, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

justinterested: "There are two issues here, the legal right and the moral right.
Just because you can do something does not mean you should."

You really ought to bring this point up to the defenders of the South Carolina government's continued proud flying of the CSA flag on PUBLIC land.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | August 14, 2010 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Islam is a political system. Is the president willing to publicly denounce Shariah law? I doubt it - will someone in the media ask him? - I doubt it.

Islam, in short, is a vehicle for Arab supremacy. There is no interest in building bridges in the Western sense. Their bridge is a one-way path to their ideology; there is no genuine desire in sharing ideas, in understanding and respecting other outlooks and perspectives. Moreover, when Rauf speaks in Arabic, he contradicts what he says to his English-speaking audience. On March 24, 2010, Rauf is quoted in an article in Arabic for the website Rights4All, a leading educational institution of the Arabic-speaking world, entitled:

"The Most Prominent Imam in New York: 'I Do Not Believe in Religious Dialogue.'"

He goes on to say that "Religious dialogue as customarily understood is a set of events with discussions in large hotels that result in nothing." Finally, Rauf says "it is clear an Islamic state can be established in more than just a single form or mold. It can be established through a kingdom or a democracy. The important issue is to establish the general fundamentals of sharia that are required to govern."

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/08/will_the_real_imam_feisal_abdu.html

Posted by: Bellamia | August 14, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

One of the few things that Obuma does right is to be able to make a speech. It is not necessary that the speech be accurate but just sound good. He has misrepresented so many facts anf figures concerning the economic condition of the country that he now cannot tell the difference between a lie and the truth. Although it is correct that there may be legal issues that permit the building to be built there is the issue of sensitivity. It is obvious to whom Obuma is appealing. Once again his speech flies in the face of what the majority of Americans believe. I hope he continues to make the speeches and continues to do so until he is voted out of office.

Posted by: MALBENNET | August 14, 2010 12:21 PM | Report abuse

A mosque has as much to do with 9/11 as a church has to do with McVeighs handiwork

And why stop at a mosque? If a mosque which you will never see from ground zero will unfairly remind people of that day what about muslims just walking around down there? And why limit it to close to ground zero? By your logic wouldnt any mosque anywhere remind people of 9/11? Maybe you want to expell all muslims just like some of the nuttier elements of the far right.

Ironically enough hundreds of Muslims died in the Twin Towers too but Im sure you dont care what their family members think huh?

The question I have for all you dingbats is this. If you think we should be able to discriminate against Muslims in contravention of our Constitution, do you REALLY think other religions wont be targetted as well? Thats the whole reason we have a Constitution in the first place nimrods, but thats ok. Just keep begging for peoples rights to be violated and see how long it is before you find yours being violated right along with them.

Posted by: sgwhiteinfla | August 14, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone come across any good reporting on the timeline of the origins and build-up of this Festival of Bigotry? Greg?

Posted by: bernielatham | August 14, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Hey, Greg - did you get a tingly feeling all up and down your legs while listening to your hero?

Posted by: BillyBob7 | August 14, 2010 12:28 PM | Report abuse

God bless President Obama for backing the building of the Islamic Community Center in lower Manhattan. Religious freedom and tolerance are cornerstones of American freedom and the United States Bill of Rights. What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right. Thanks President Obama for not caving into fear and hate. You have my support and vote.

Posted by: brianhandel | August 14, 2010 12:28 PM | Report abuse

"If we resort for a criterion to the different principles on which different forms of government are established, we may define a republic to be, or at least may bestow that name on, a government which derives all its powers directly or indirectly from the great body of the people, and is administered by persons holding their offices during pleasure, for a limited period, or during good behavior. It is ESSENTIAL to such a government that it be derived from the great body of the society, not from an inconsiderable proportion, or a favored class of it; otherwise a handful of tyrannical nobles, exercising their oppressions by a delegation of their powers, might aspire to the rank of republicans, and claim for their government the honorable title of republic."
Federalist 39

Publius weeps. He will scorn & repudiate very, very soon.

An inconsiderable proportion, indeed.

Posted by: tao9 | August 14, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Typical. In "Dreams of My Father" Obama said he would stand with the muslims. His speech is that. I agree building a mosque in the shadow of the trade towers is legal, but far from moral. I doubt Muslims would allow the jews the same right. One thing I need to know are the builders of this shrine to intolance , American citzens. If not they do not have the constitutional rights to build. Those are reserved for us!

Posted by: EugeneBoyanton | August 14, 2010 12:33 PM | Report abuse

America is the most tolerant country on the planet; for two hundred years, we've accepted and welcomed people from all over the globe, many of whom didn't speak English or practice the predominant religion. We inherited an evil system of slavery from our colonial days, and finally fought a war that killed half a million of us in order to end it. We are one of the very few countries on earth that automatically bestows citizenship on anyone born here; look it up if you don't believe me.

So I've had it up to here (hand held horizontally at throat) with being lectured that American has to demonstrate tolerance and sympathy and respect for others, no matter what, and if we don't, we somehow lose all our moral standing. Respect is a two-way street; if Muslims showed others the same respect they demand from others (instead of howling for the beheading of anyone who draws cartoons of Muhammad), perhaps there wouldn't be the widespread opposition to this "cultural center."

You have the right to spit in the street. You even have the right to spit on my father's grave. But if you spit on my father's grave, don't get all indignant if I'm mortally offended, and don't get up on your high horse demanding I respect you. I'll respect your right to spit wherever you want, but I won't respect YOU, and you can forget about ever "coming to a closer understanding" between us.

Posted by: gilbertbp | August 14, 2010 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Origins of the Teahadists? Richard Hofstader writing in the year 1954: The Pseudo-Conservative Revolt

http://www.theamericanscholar.org/the-pseudo-conservative-revolt/

Posted by: KevinShinn | August 14, 2010 12:34 PM | Report abuse

So, the leftists who routinely attack, denigrate, assault and lie about Christianity and Judaism, are now bravely standing up for Islam. What an incredible bunch of hypocrites you are. You guys would call for a monument to Nazism as an example of "tolerance." And to claim that you are standing up for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights? Where in the Bill of Rights do you have the right to build anything anywhere? Have you never heard of Zoning? or of your beloved Kelo decision? This is just another example of the "hate America" crowd trying to pull another fraud by wrapping itself in the Constitution, when clearly your crowd has nothing but contempt for the Constitution. Or were all of you against Obamacare and the latest attempt by liberals to stifle the 1st Amendment?

Posted by: PACIFICENV | August 14, 2010 12:36 PM | Report abuse

I would rather that he be a one term president, and speak out for equal treatment for all, rather than pander to irrational hate mongers.

He is already one of the nation's greatest Presidents, and a true: Profile In Courage.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 14, 2010 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Mr. Obama well represents the fantasy ideology of the multiculturalist Left by the familiar division such true believers make between True and false Islam. Our Western multiculturalist elites, few of whom have any use for religion of any kind, are quite certain that they understand the words of the Prophet, the Koran, and the traditions of Islam itself better than those Muslims who, mistakenly according to Western intelligentsia, keep saying and doing things in the name of Islam that are totally opposed to what Islam really teaches.

If one is consistent with this modern Western multiculturalist definition of True as opposed to False Islam, it seems that the Prophet himself was mistaken as to the actual values, beliefs, teachings and practices of Islam. Mohammed himself got it wrong - according to our modern irreligious Western experts on Islam.

The Prophet's mistake about what Islam really teaches had, as many people know, many unfortunate and far-reaching consequences that are with us to this day.

For instance, under the wholly mistaken belief that they were acting in accordance with rather than in opposition to Islam, Arab warriors stormed out of the Arabian peninsula and conquered most of the known world, the former Roman Empire, within one hundred years after the death of the Prophet.

But the mistakes and their dire consequences did not cease there. Muslims who failed to understand the real teachings of Islam continued to wage war against the West and their neighbors for the next thousand years. They attacked Constantinople again and again in their erroneous belief that such behavior was not only compatible with but required by Islam - and after 8 centuries of relentless and repeated assaults, all of them in complete contravention of the true teachings of Islam, finally battered through the walls with the help of Western cannon technology in 1453 C.E. and took possession in the name of Allah.

I am surprised that people like Mr. Obama, those who think the problem is not Islam but Muslims who do not understand Islam correctly, do not suggest courses of religious education that will bring erring and misguided Muslims who think they are supposed to be slaying infidels and conquering the world for Islam to their senses.

It's all one big misunderstanding. Education is the solution. Muslims who think Islam not only permits but positively commands them to commit acts of horrific violence and to wage jihad against infidels until the entire world submits, are mistaken about their religion. People like Mr. Obama and Western intelligentsia know what Islam REALLY teaches.

Posted by: Teleologicus | August 14, 2010 12:40 PM | Report abuse

The Washington Post has been my paper of choice since 1968, but alas I can't stand to see how far far left it has gone and can't let it ruin my mornings anymore.

Posted by: WK91 | August 14, 2010 12:40 PM | Report abuse

Obama and anyone else who supports the 9-11 mosque disregards an important element of Islam: it is less of a religion and more of a mode of governance . . . the ultimate objective of which is the establishment of an Islamic world government which enforces sharia. If any intelligent person doubts that Obama is a Muslim, he is lying to himself or to everyone else.

Reis Kash

Posted by: Reisrrk | August 14, 2010 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Myself, I tire of lectures on the Constitution from folk who began reading it last year (while giving no thought to knowing the context of its origins) and really do I find fatiguing the utterly Non-Sensical bleating from senseless fools propounding their ownership of "common sense."

Posted by: KevinShinn | August 14, 2010 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Well, I guess losing you will put them out of business. After all, you were the only one they were publishing for.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 14, 2010 12:42 PM | Report abuse

If ever there were an appeal to "the better angels of our nature" this is it. Kudos.
A speed bump on the road to anti-Muslim pogroms.

Posted by: joeff | August 14, 2010 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Sometimes morally trumps politics.

Posted by: blarsen1 | August 14, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Why do so many Right Wingers have no objections to Catholic Bishops trying to coerce elected Democrats to violate their oaths of office, and refuse to serve them communion, if they will not take orders from the Vatican instead of adhering to the constitution, as ruled on by The Supreme Court.

Right Wingers are very selective, when it comes to when they wet their beds, because of the threat of religious extremists taking over, and telling them how to behave.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 14, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

The Washington Post has been my paper of choice since 1968, but alas I can't stand to see how far far left it has gone and can't let it ruin my mornings anymore.

Posted by: WK91
----------------------

Interesting. So Fred Hiatt, Charles Krauthammer, Michael Gerson, David Broder, and Marc Thiessen are lefties now? Geeze...who knew?

Posted by: suekzoo1 | August 14, 2010 12:48 PM | Report abuse

It is not about religion; it is about sensitivity to those who lost loved ones on 9/11. The man is clueless....!

Posted by: DL13 | August 14, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Also find I annoying the bleats from anyone who equates this speech to something from George Washington!

This, min you, from a guy who made the comparison to Theodore Roosevelt.

http://www.theodoreroosevelt.org/research/speech%20kill%20moose.htm

Posted by: KevinShinn | August 14, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

"One of the finest moments"? Why not make it THE VERY finest moment and order the building of 19 mosques around the site, each named after one of the hijackers . . . er, freedom fighters?

Why not build a center for German culture at Auschwitz, too? And a memorial for Japanese pilots at Pearl Harbor. After all, it would be legal.

Liberals, do your heads have to be half-severed from your necks before you recognize what's going on?

Posted by: Renfield1 | August 14, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

I was so proud of our president, and our country, when I listened to the speech in full last night, for all of the reasons you cite here. A shining moment indeed. Thanks for highlighting it.

Posted by: fairfaxvoter1 | August 14, 2010 12:53 PM | Report abuse

In some form of another through millennium history does repeat itself.
One need only read some of these vile posts and pseudo rationalizations, advanced here and other forums, to see the beginning progression of how (an intellectual and cosmopolitan) German could devolve into its hellishness. This coming from critics whose ancestors still hold fresh memories of persecutions and being denied a place to worship.

Posted by: october30 | August 14, 2010 12:53 PM | Report abuse

I have been a loyal Democrat since before JFK. I am not a teabagger, not a believer that Obama is a secret muslim, not a right winger, I don't like Fox News and Palin makes me laugh. That said, I am shocked that Obama would so seriously misjudge the mood of America. I believe that most folks don't dispute the legality of building a mosque at Ground Zero. I think that most think it is morally wrong , incredibly insensitive and potentially dangerous to put it there. Some posters have asked what is the difference between the mosque and an office building or a strip club. Well, it should be obvious to the most casual onserver that they did not fly two airliners loaded with innocents into the Twin Towers. They did not claim their religion as the basis of their actions and millions of their supporters did not dance in the streets gleefully admiring the terrorist's handywork of people jumping out of 100 story windows. A large number of these folks have publically called for the destruction of our society and death to our citizens. I haven't heard ANY fervent calls from the muslim clergy for peaceful co-existence, tolerance or remorse. All I heard is legalistic arguements calling for the construction of a large edifice that will serve as a constant reminder of the heinous acts to Americans and a symbol of terrorist triumph for muslims.If the New York muslims want to further the cause of understanding, they will put the mosque somewhere else
Barak Obama seems to have this unbelievable need to alienate his allies ( both home and abroad) and embrace his enemies. I firmly believe that Obama has made a very serious error on this issue, will experience a tremendous backlash,will cause Democrats to lose the next election, will, himself not be re-elected.

Posted by: diogenes4 | August 14, 2010 12:54 PM | Report abuse

The establishment right has nothing but xenophobic poison to offer. I guess the first amendment protects even those who have no respect for it.

Posted by: TonyQ82 | August 14, 2010 12:54 PM | Report abuse

The only "spine" this idiot shows is his absolute amoral gall of betraying the American people...relentlessly.

Get him out of the White House.

Posted by: EcoAZ1 | August 14, 2010 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Would the KKK receive similar support from the Obama administration if they were to build a "temple" at ground zero?

Posted by: branda2 | August 14, 2010 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Why not add another amendment to the constitution, to cater to the rights of outraged hate-mongers.

It could be named:

The Sensitivity Meter Amendment.


Don't you love it, when all those Right Wing Nut Jobs, who never tire of rattling on and on, about how much thet resent Political Correctness, only to have them now turn around, and try to play the Sensitivity Card, as their big objection to the Muslim Center.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 14, 2010 12:59 PM | Report abuse

More tiresome Constitutional lecture from the woefully uninformed:

Sharron Angle Claims United Nations Is Unconstitutional

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/08/13/angle-un/

Posted by: KevinShinn | August 14, 2010 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Greg,
Good traffic 4 a Saturday! :)

Posted by: tao9 | August 14, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

"Don't you love it, when all those Right Wing Nut Jobs, who never tire of rattling on and on, about how much thet resent Political Correctness, only to have them now turn around, and try to play the Sensitivity Card, as their big objection to the Muslim Center."

Good point, Liam. I certainly remember the sh*tstorm on the right when Obama talked about "empathetic" Supreme Court Justices. Now they insist the most important thing is not the rule of law but all about everyone's "feelings". My how quickly they can change their tune when they need to.

Posted by: schrodingerscat | August 14, 2010 1:04 PM | Report abuse


More tiresome Constitutional lecture from the woefully uninformed:

Sharron Angle Claims United Nations Is Unconstitutional

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/08/13/angle-un/

Posted by: KevinShinn | August 14, 2010 1:00 PM |

.....................

I am sure that all the other nations of the world, will take heed, and immediately move to dissolve the UN.

I am sure all those foreign governments would never wish to violate the Constitution of the USA.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 14, 2010 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Liam-still, the politically correct thing to do is to BUILD the mosque and offend American sensibilities. I guess 70% of the American people must be "right-wing nutjobs" and "outraged hate-mongers."

You'll love living under sharia law, Liam-still, especially if you're a woman, or a gay, or an infidel.

Posted by: Renfield1 | August 14, 2010 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Thanks to those who took the bait!

Writers for newspapers put in on the line when they write columns like this, and more power to them when they state what they feel knowing they will take some abuse.

These dialogues will remains as pertinent and pointless as idol gossip.

Thank God (or Allah) the power of the pen will not be diminished by these chat rooms

Posted by: WK91 | August 14, 2010 1:06 PM | Report abuse

In some form of another through millennium history does repeat itself.
One need only read some of these vile posts and pseudo rationalizations, advanced here and other forums, to see the beginning progression of how (an intellectual and cosmopolitan) Germany could devolve into its hellishness. This coming from critics whose ancestors still hold fresh memories of persecutions and being denied a place to worship.

Posted by: october30 | August 14, 2010 1:10 PM | Report abuse

You'll love living under sharia law, Liam-still, especially if you're a woman, or a gay, or an infidel.

Posted by: Renfield1 | August 14, 2010 1:05 PM |

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You right wing nut jobs scare easily. One proposed muslim center have you all wetting your beds, and claiming that you have been conquered.

The Roman Catholic Church does not treat Women, or Gays much better, so you better get busy working on getting rid of their operations.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 14, 2010 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Extremist New York liberals amuse me. They practice little to no religion, but use "freedom of religon" as a tool to whack anyone who differs. Islam is no religion;its a politicalmovement/religion culture mixture. Don't worry about sensitivity to the 911 families--any group who beheads its enemies, murders its young women calling them "honor killings" and teaches young men to commit suicide in the name of Allah isn't going to stop at causing trouble to hated Americans once they are firmly established in the New York financial district. Sharia is ahead. Our president shares many of their views of dislike of our American way of life. New York has never been part of the U.S. but excercises its own laws and behavior. Its state government is corrupt, and its mayor bought his office. Yet they lecture.

Posted by: drzimmern1 | August 14, 2010 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Love to see so many Hate America rightwingers here. Oh, yeah, they claim to love this couontry, but they don't. They claim to revere our Constitution, but they don't. They would be nowhere without their petty little hatreds of anything they don't like or understand. Yes, we are at war with Islamic terrorists. However,are we fighting American Islamists? No, we are not. American Muslims are fighting for us in our military. Are they not allowed, then, to worhip as they please? This is not "your" America, it is America, plain and simple. The one that considers religious freedom on the same level as speech and the press. If you hate America so much, if you wish to live in a country that denies rights to its citizens, then leave. Go live in Venezuela or N. Korea or Iran where dictators tell you who does and who doesn't have rights. Who you can like and who you can hate. Most of this bigotry comes from so-called christians, but Jesus named you well, "whited sepulchres." All lovely and white on the outside, yet filled with decay and corruption within. Be real Christians and Americans: stop the hate.

Posted by: mikel7 | August 14, 2010 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Renfield1: "I guess 70% of the American people must be "right-wing nutjobs" and "outraged hate-mongers."

And since only 47% of Americans voted against Obama in 2008, a hell of a lot of people who voted for him have to be in that intolerant 70%.

So, I guess those people who voted for Obama and are opposed to the mosque are hate-mongering, fascist, racist, Nazis.

I guess that's the new rule: You must be tolerant and welcoming of anything, no matter how disgusting, or else you're a racist teabagger.

Reminds me of the banner at the Tea Party rally not long ago: "It doesn't matter what this banner says; you're going to call me a racist anyway."

Posted by: gilbertbp | August 14, 2010 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Posted: "Stop the hate," etc.

The old, be nice to them and they'll be nice to us. Heads deeply in the sand.

Posted by: kls1 | August 14, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

You guys keep using that term "right wing."
I do not think it means, in this case, what 70% of the American people mean.

Posted by: tao9 | August 14, 2010 1:19 PM | Report abuse

I am more focused on the key issue -- how many Union guys are gonna work on this project? Despite the typical liberal clap trap nonsense of how great this was, it ranks right up there with his nonsense about the Earth healing itself based on his annointment, the Muslim workld loving us based on his policies, Gitmo closing, Health Care wont raise taxes and will be affordable, etc. The man is a walking disaster. Too many people object to this on rerality-based emotions, something the Left always seems willing to ignore when it suits them. Of that number, a good many are Democrats who are very fast going back to becoming Reagan Democrats. But again, lets see how many Union guys work this project....

Posted by: RickBurgoon | August 14, 2010 1:19 PM | Report abuse


First, please allow me to explain what too few people understand about Islam.....

Islam is NOT a religion.....  Religion is just one part of Islam.....

Islam is a concept that encompasses the following: Politics; Economics; Education; Religion; Banking; Investments; and Military.   EVERY form of societal interaction.

The goal of Islam is the establishment of a world caliphate through the imposition of the rule of Allah, the Koran and universal sharia law.  The Koran is the word of God as transmitted through the prophet Mohammad.  The Koran is absolute; it cannot be discussed or questioned; certainly not doubted.  Sharia laws are the absolute laws of God.

Under sharia law, the rights of you, me, and every person in the world, are non-existent.  There is no free-will, no freedom[s].  In the absence of Allah, however, man [or men] assume the
role of Allah, enslaving us all through the rule of sharia law!

Unbelievers, kafur, have three options:

          1. Convert to all concepts of Islam.

          2. Submit to all concepts of Islam ["dhimmitude"]

          3. Death

Islamists labor to cloak Islam under the veil of religion.....  Thanks to willingness [i.e., political correctness and cultural relativism] and/or ignorance on the part of us here in the Western world and in Asia, including politicians and media, the Islamists are quite successful!

How can the spread and creep of Islam be ended?  Only by identifying Islam for what it is,  EVIL!!!

We must remove that cloak and expose Islam, first for what it is NOT, a religion! 

Secondly, expose Islam for what it is: man's attempt to rule the world under the myth of Allah, the lies of the Koran and the reality of man-made sharia law!

Posted by: jworsr | August 14, 2010 1:21 PM | Report abuse

I do not buy into any religion, no matter where it comes from;

But once the USA has allowed Hillbilly Ayatollahs, and The Vatican Pedophilia Protection Mafia, to dictate how Americans must live, then it is too late to try and lock out, the rest of the Fantasy Sky Wizard vendors.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 14, 2010 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Mr. Obama made this a religious issue and he is right. Only the religion he is pushing on America wants to kill me because of my religious tradition. Islam considers me subhuman. Obama's religion considers me and my people, "the sons of apes and pigs." Obama's religion teaches: "Strongest among men in enmity to the believers (i.e., Muslims) will you find the Jews...." Qur'an 5:82 "You who believe, do not take Jews and Christians for your friends..." (Qur'an 5:51)
Obama's religion teaches: "You will fight against the Jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me); kill him." Hadith Sahih Muslim [41:6981]

Posted by: sklein19 | August 14, 2010 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Can someone please explain to me the essential difference between sharia law and Jim Crow laws? Other than that Sharia instructs you how to oppress women, gays, and non-Muslims, while Jim Crow instructs you how to oppress non-whites?

Posted by: gilbertbp | August 14, 2010 1:21 PM | Report abuse

"The Roman Catholic Church does not treat Women, or Gays much better, so you better get busy working on getting rid of their operations."

Come to think of it, Liam, neither do the evangelical and fundamentalist Christian denominations.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | August 14, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

"Why not build a center for German culture at Auschwitz and a memorial for Japanese pilots at Pearl Harbor?"

How very appropriate a question. Hey if it's legal then why not? ...and to even think to ask exactly where the 100 million, yep, 100 million, in project funding comes from is, 'intolerant'.

Look to massive political upheaval this Nov. Then watch for a Dec. 2010 lame duck congress to pass every 'reform' under the sun before making their exit...

Posted by: ObammyGonnaGitYa | August 14, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse

"I guess that's the new rule: You must be tolerant and welcoming of anything, no matter how disgusting, or else you're a racist teabagger. "

I absolutely adore the fact that the people who detest liberals making broad, sweeping generalizations about right wingers have no problem at all making broad, sweeping generalizations about Muslims.

Posted by: schrodingerscat | August 14, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Liam-still, you have no idea how to use a comma.

What religion other than Islam stones women to death, hangs homosexuals in the public square, and puts infidels and apostates to death?

mikel7, Venezuela is a LIBERAL paradise, and Chavez, like Castro, is a big hero to LIBERALS. Get with it, boy.

Posted by: Renfield1 | August 14, 2010 1:25 PM | Report abuse

I would hope that a president's finest moment would involve something more than a speech.

Posted by: FrederickMichael | August 14, 2010 1:28 PM | Report abuse

"Islam is a concept that encompasses the following: Politics; Economics; Education; Religion; Banking; Investments; and Military. EVERY form of societal interaction."

Psssst......try googling "Christian Exodus".

Posted by: schrodingerscat | August 14, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Spot on, Mr. President. You spoke exactly the words I wanted you to and would've had I been in your place. Bravo.

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | August 14, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

I think its interesting that the people who are praising 0bama for taking this stand on "religious freedom" are the lefty libs who have been doing their best to get religion out of this country in any way they can.

What is that word that would describe this situation? Starts with an "h" - Hyp, hypo, hypoc, ?

I don't know, it escapes my mind right now.

Posted by: Nick_in_Alexandria | August 14, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Political correctness will be the undoing of this fine nation.

I'd like to see a Catholic church put up in Mecca then we can talk about erecting tributes to the 9/11 bombers a stone's throw from where the World Trade Center used to be.

Posted by: JoeCasepack | August 14, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Spot on Mr. President. You spoke exactly the words I expected you too. Your actions today insure you won't be elected to a second term.

Bravo.

Posted by: ObammyGonnaGitYa | August 14, 2010 1:35 PM | Report abuse

"What religion other than Islam stones women to death, hangs homosexuals in the public square, and puts infidels and apostates to death?"

They are doing that here in the United States? Gosh, you'd think that would make the evening news. Meanwhile, some US supposedly-Christian politicians advocated harsh treatment of homosexuals in Uganda. See Inhofe, James and Brownback, Sam.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | August 14, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

So,

A Priest, A Rabbi, A Minister, and An Imam walked into a Juice Bar near the 9/11 site.

The Bartender says; I will serve juice to all of you, except that Imam guy. It is too soon for him to drink juice so close to the sacred big hole in the ground. However, we do have another juice bar a couples a miles away, and it would be alright for him to get served over there.

Sensitivity Vibes are only strong, within a very small radius.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 14, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

I do not buy into any religion, no matter where it comes from;

But once the USA has allowed Hillbilly Ayatollahs, and The Vatican Pedophilia Protection Mafia, to dictate how Americans must live, then it is too late to try and lock out, the rest of the Fantasy Sky Wizard vendors.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 14, 2010 1:21 PM
================

How incredibly superior you are to everyone who has ever believed in any religion, anywhere, anytime.

A word of caution, since you appear to regard Islam as just another brand of the same old stuff to which you are yourself superior. You may wish to acquaint yourself with the beliefs and documented practices of Islam towards unbelievers before agreeing wholeheartedly to its expansion in the America.

Many followers of the Prophet are prepared to make you an offer you cannot conveniently resist. Thus if you regard yourself as dictated to by religions now active in America, it would wise to examine the attitude of Islam towards such things, and to consider how matters might be were Islam to predominate.

See, it's like this: Just because YOU are willing to tolerate Islam, does not necessarily mean that Islam is prepared to tolerate YOU. Leftist multiculturalists can be as multicultural and diversity celebrating as they wish - but neither Islam nor any other belief system opposed to such things is thereby transformed or required to reciprocate in good faith.

This simple truth is the Stone of Stumbling for the fantasy ideology of Western multiculturalism - itself, of course, a form of Western imperialism that is not only rejected but deeply resented by other cultures. Western multiculturalism is a Western cultural value, not a universal and certainly not an obligatory belief. Western intelligentsia have tried to impose it top down in totalitarian tyrannical fashion within Western culture itself, and have had significant success in doing so. It is an altogether different matter to impose their multicultural values and ideology on foreign cultures and religions such as Islam.

Posted by: Teleologicus | August 14, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

How Superior of you to observe that.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 14, 2010 1:41 PM | Report abuse

"I think its interesting that the people who are praising 0bama for taking this stand on "religious freedom" are the lefty libs who have been doing their best to get religion out of this country in any way they can."

Can you please provide me a link for all the stories about liberals trying to keep Christian churches from being built on private property using private funds?

Posted by: schrodingerscat | August 14, 2010 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Again, Obama is showing that he doesn't get it.He does not have in him what makes other people mad or proud. Why suspend the NASA space exploration? Why build an Islamic Center so close to where thousands of Americans where killed by Muslim fundamentalists; especially when they can build it anywhere else? Why go to Spain and Martha's Vineyards with 45 guests and dozens of secret service agents when there are so many people out of work and starving? Obama has been accused of lack of patriotism when he started his campaign. I don't think that's true, nevertheless, I believe he is too cool and professorial and he does not give a damn about what is the right thing to do. He thinks his daily speeches explaining his actions and putting the blame on others will get him out of every situation, well,ask the relatives of the 3000 people that lost their life in 9/11 if they agree with him. If they do then let them build their Mosque at the site.

Posted by: fancydog | August 14, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse


A Priest, A Rabbi, A Minister, and An Imam walked into a Juice Bar near the 9/11 site.

The Bartender says; I will serve juice to all of you, except that Imam guy. It is too soon for him to drink juice so close to the sacred big hole in the ground. However, we do have another juice bar a couples a miles away, and it would be alright for him to get served over there.

Sensitivity Vibes are only strong, within a very small radius.


What Is Need; Is a well financed research project; to develop far reaching Doppler Sensitivity Detecting Equipment.

Once we get that up and running, we will be able to expanding our Sensitivity Exclusion Zones, to cover entire cities, and future generations of the technology will allow us to spread the exclusion zone, from Sea To Shining Sea;

America America, Great Fantasy Sky Wizard, shed it's light on thee....

Posted by: Liam-still | August 14, 2010 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Excellent!

I want the Democratic party to defend the rights of Muslims to put up a mosque where 3,000 Americans were murdered in the name of Islam.

That's a sure winning campaign platform for 2010. NOT.

And I'm sure that liberals in all those Western states will be overjoyed to have to defend that one to the voters.

Go to it, liberals! Defend the mosque to the voters of Texas, Alabama, Wyoming, Montana! We conservatives want you to do that. We really do.

Posted by: sinz52 | August 14, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

What religion other than Islam stones women to death, hangs homosexuals in the public square, and puts infidels and apostates to death?

"They are doing that here in the United States?"

Not yet, sue. We're a little behind Europe in this regard. And don't be so sure the mainstream media would report it on the evening news.

But there have been cases here and in Canada of Moslem parents killing their children for becoming westernized, or refusing an arranged marriage, or announcing a desire to convert to Christianity.

The "religion of peace" is not only incompatible with western culture, but antithetical to it.

All these liberals falling in love with Islam are hitching their wagons to the most illiberal of dogmas.

Posted by: Renfield1 | August 14, 2010 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the link to "The Psuedo-conservative Revolt."

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

The dull witted have sharp tongues.

Posted by: -tao- | August 14, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

fancydog: "ask the relatives of the 3000 people that lost their life in 9/11 if they agree with him"

Bet you'll be surprised to learn that some of these families support the building of the community center.

http://www.peacefultomorrows.org/article.php?id=977

9/11 Families Group Announces Support for Islamic Cultural Center in Lower Manhattan

May 20th, 2010

New York – Today, September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows, a nationwide group founded by family members of those killed on 9/11 issued the following statement, which may be attributed to their spokesperson, Donna Marsh O’Connor:

September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows strongly supports efforts to bring an Islamic Cultural Center to lower Manhattan, near the Ground Zero site. We believe that welcoming the Center, which is intended to promote interfaith tolerance and respect, is consistent with fundamental American values of freedom and justice for all.

We believe, too, that this building will serve as an emblem for the rest of the world that Americans stand against violence, intolerance and overt acts of racism and that we recognize that the evil acts of a few must never damn the innocent.


Posted by: suekzoo1 | August 14, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Prejudice or pluralism.

Bigotry or tolerance.

Shouldn't be a hard choice.

People are going to look back on this in a decade or two and be embarrassed (i.e., the Weekly Standard's view on Civil Rights Act)

Posted by: PorkBelly | August 14, 2010 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Hey fancydog, that's another lie you sort bandy about: "He does not have in him what makes other people mad or proud. Why suspend the NASA space exploration?"

The President has committed NASA to reaching and exploring- and exploiting- the asteroid belt, while the knuckleheads bemoan not bouncing back to the gravity well of the Moon.

I'd never make it in space, I waste too much breath.

Posted by: KevinShinn | August 14, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

"Sensitivity Vibes"... lol

It's voters / sheeple like you who make it all possible.

It'd be nice to see Obammy stand up for the 3000 plus dead in one of our greatest cities... oh well, he'll be busy making speeches at 'enlightened' universities come Jan 2015 when he steps down from office.

Posted by: ObammyGonnaGitYa | August 14, 2010 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Islam is a political system. That and that alone is enough to disallow their protection under freedom of religion under the Bill of Rights. Add that if this is built, it will b dedicated on 9-11, ehy then is that a religious date or a political slap in the face. I'd say the latter. Keep their mosque and their phoney religion too.

Posted by: AbingtonJim | August 14, 2010 2:00 PM | Report abuse


Political correctness will be the undoing of this fine nation.

I'd like to see a Catholic church put up in Mecca then we can talk about erecting tributes to the 9/11 bombers a stone's throw from where the World Trade Center used to be.

Posted by: JoeCasepack | August 14, 2010 1:33 PM

...................

I hear you. You want to let Saudi Arabia dictate how we should behave, and you will follow their lead.

Looks like you have already surrendered to them. You have discarded the American Constitution and revealed that you will be guided by the dictates of Saudia Arabia.


Posted by: Liam-still | August 14, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

As author of the book Defeating Political Islam: The New Cold War, I have a different take on this.

I think this decision by Obama is not just a political suicide, but morally a repugnant one.

As Islam is increasingly put under microscope, people will realize that it is by and far a genocidal ideology of conquest that masquerades as a religion.

My book provides a scientific look at this besides, an extensive view of jihad in India.

For a man sworn to protect us from the clear and imminent Islamic threat, including a nuclear 9/11, the decision by Obama (to support the construction of the Ground Zero mosque) is utterly irresponsible and reckless. Of all people, Obama with his access to national security intelligence, shown have known better.

Prominent mosques in non-Muslim majority nations are the foundation upon which genocide and extermination of unbelievers is constructed. Mr. Obama has signaled his support for one of those at the heart of America.

Posted by: moorthy1 | August 14, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

happyacres wrote:

"This preening self-congratulations is obscene.

"The sullen peasants aren't as stupid as faux intellectuals; 80% of this country recognizes this graveyard mosque as a triumphalist symbol, a spit in the face, that will have real destructive consequences."

Since Sarah Palin is the triumphalist symbol of idiocy, she should refudiate her decision to open her yap.

Posted by: Garak | August 14, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

When Jewish synagogues were banned in New York...

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/77011/when-shuls-were-banned-in-america

Posted by: bernielatham | August 14, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

The president gives a fine speech as always and reaffirms for us one of the really good qualities of most Americans (most of the time). It's a beautiful thing. But ask yourself two questions: 1) What did guys like smirking Willie Kristol and scowling Charles Krauthammer want the conversation to be about this week and 2) what was it again that we've spent most of the last week hyperventilating about?

Let's review. Going on two weeks ago now, no lesser personage than the mayor of New York city, whom we may note is Jewish, flanked by clergymen of the Christian, Jewish and Muslim religions, maybe a Hindu or two, got up and gave a speech that should have told anyone paying attention, in no uncertain terms and beyond any reasonable doubt, that any hopes anyone may have had of shutting down plans for the Islamic center were as dead as disco. If the City of New York had no intention of standing in the way, there was really no other entity that reasonably could or might realistically be expected to try.

Last week, on August 10-11, the cable news house organ of the radical right wing conducted a poll and found (in case there was any real doubt in anyone's mind) that only 34% of Americans *nationwide* think they shouldn't be allowed to build their center where they want to build it -- and I really think we all know *which* 34%, and I sincerely doubt that any of us seriously believe the president's speech changed any of their minds.

Nevertheless, some of us have seen fit to spend most of the intervening period frantically helping fan the flames that guys like Kristol and Krauthammer have been trying so diligently to build into a bonfire, to the point that no lesser personage than the president of the United States, who obviously has nothing better to do, felt compelled to step in and take *his* shot at stomping it out; thus ensuring that what was essentially a non-story over a local zoning dispute to begin with, will likely remain a national distraction for another week.

So given that fact that this fight was actually won almost the day it started and that after 12 days and acres of ink and pixels expended arguing it, no one's mind has likely been changed; people who had no real problem with it at the outset still don't and the people who were against it are still against it, what exactly has been accomplished?

Well, I guess we *have* succeed in getting Mr. Obama to take a little time off trying to save the world from the consequences of all the things we've been letting guys like Kristol and Krauthammer whip the country into a frenzy about for the last decade or so, to show us a little love. Yay. I feel all warm and fuzzy now. And of course we've got the radical right just where we want them now: They push our buttons, we react predictably, they continue to control the dialog.

Posted by: CalD | August 14, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

I may be wrong on this;

But didn't the Muslims get that whole stoning to death thing from the Bible?

Or was it from The Life Of Brian?

Posted by: Liam-still | August 14, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Have we seen this spine before. when the american people speak and are turned a deaf ear. when loved ones of such a teribble tragedy have no voice and what of their faith and their beliefs what religion
that is peaceful would dare not consider the pain and suffering of its neighbors have we seen it before you are a young man with a lot to learn and I am an old worn out woman who doesnt wish to see anymore but probably will it seems we are free to do anything except preserve what is holy. no one wants to take some ones rights away but to preserve the dignity of ones that have lost so much nobody has asked that mosques no longer be built justs not there sometimes young man it is better to be plum wrong than this indecently right. my how the chest does swell. and i would accept a bridge if it would hold me up

Posted by: robertajkaufman3 | August 14, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the link to "The Psuedo-conservative Revolt."

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

The dull witted have sharp tongues.

Posted by: -tao- | August 14, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse
_________________________________________________________________

who dat?

dat plati-tao-tude!

Posted by: tao9 | August 14, 2010 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Is this the same individual who, during the presidential campaign, ridiculed
some simple folk for their reliance on "guns and bibles" and sat through 20
years of hate-filled "Christian" sermons?

Posted by: vadata060440 | August 14, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

"Islam is a political system."

So is Christianity. Damn good thing we have the separation of Church and State in this country.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | August 14, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Hmmmm yes, I just hope all will also give President Obama similar credit when the next terrorist attack occurs... Nothing in our constitution or culture says we have to make it easy on those who make war on us. A little common sense can go a long way. The presidents first and most important job is to protect the CITIZENS of the United States...this does that HOW?

Posted by: robinTX54 | August 14, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

On the other hand:

There were plenty of Americans who tried to keep out the wave of Irish Catholics, because of their religious practices.

They failed to keep them out, and the Irish ended up establishing Parishes and Parochial Schools all over the Land.

You see what can go wrong once you open the door. You failed to keep us Irish out, and now you are suffering the consequences.

Let that be a lesson to you. Never again. You should have kept us out, before it was too late.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 14, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Western multiculturalists and most of their intelligentsia regard themselves as the ne plus ultra of intelligence, education, wisdom, morality, sophistication and everything else cool and swell. This self-righteous certitude seems to have relieved them of the tedious task of acquiring and addressing the mere mundane facts of any matter that political correctness deems to be settled. Since political correctness has spoken, there is neither the need nor, frankly, the right to pursue the question further. The debate is over. Roma verba, causa finita.

The secular Western intelligentsia having determined that it understands the true nature of Islam better than those, including the Prophet and countless followers over roughly 1,500 years, understand it, the case regarding Islam itself must be considered to be settled. Islam is tolerant, multicultural, peace-loving, non-expansionist, opposed to jihad, completely compatible with modern Western values such as liberty of speech and freedom of religion, and in every way on the same if indeed not a higher footing than the more familiar Abrahamic religions of Judaism and Christianity. Political correctness has declared that there is actually no fundamental difference between Islam and these religions, that they all believe essentially the same thing, and that they are all equally prone to abuse and misuse, all equally guilty, etc. etc. etc.

Fine. But there remain two problems:

1. Muslims who, being mistaken about their religion, continue to behave in ways contrary to its teachings, e.g. massacring defenseless people and conspiring to take over the world, and

2. Ignorant, bigoted and hateful Westerners who mistakenly believe that the Muslims who are mistaken about the true teachings of Islam and who act against such true teachings, are representative of Islam itself.

This is the usual problem with the fantasy ideology of politically correct multiculturalism, and a source of great despair by all who desire to inhabit the fantasy world created by such wishful thinking.

It is a sad and even cruel truth, but even after the beautiful pictures are painted and put on display for all to behold, reality with all its ugly, grubby, distasteful, non-multicultural and impudently politically incorrect features, simply refuses to go away. Nothing changes.

The vision is created and propounded - but to no avail. When the smoke clears and the mirrors are taken down, there is the same old reality, grinning back at true believers as it squats across their path to their earthly paradise.

Pretending things are the way one thinks they should be and the way one wishes them to be does not, alas, change a thing. Nor, it might be noted, does shooting the messengers of the bad news of reality alter reality itself.

Posted by: Teleologicus | August 14, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

"But didn't the Muslims get that whole stoning to death thing from the Bible?"

Could be.

Where they got the AK47 pt/blank headshot to half-a-dozen women in a SRO soccer stadium is a complete mystery.*

{*Could it be Saaaataaaaaan?}

Posted by: tao9 | August 14, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Western multiculturalists and most of their intelligentsia regard themselves as the ne plus ultra of intelligence, education, wisdom, morality, sophistication and everything else cool and swell. This self-righteous certitude seems to have relieved them of the tedious task of acquiring and addressing the mere mundane facts of any matter that political correctness deems to be settled. Since political correctness has spoken, there is neither the need nor, frankly, the right to pursue the question further. The debate is over. Roma verba, causa finita.

The secular Western intelligentsia having determined that it understands the true nature of Islam better than those, including the Prophet and countless followers over roughly 1,500 years, understand it, the case regarding Islam itself must be considered to be settled. Islam is tolerant, multicultural, peace-loving, non-expansionist, opposed to jihad, completely compatible with modern Western values such as liberty of speech and freedom of religion, and in every way on the same if indeed not a higher footing than the more familiar Abrahamic religions of Judaism and Christianity. Political correctness has declared that there is actually no fundamental difference between Islam and these religions, that they all believe essentially the same thing, and that they are all equally prone to abuse and misuse, all equally guilty, etc. etc. etc.

Fine. But there remain two problems:

1. Muslims who, being mistaken about their religion, continue to behave in ways contrary to its teachings, e.g. massacring defenseless people and conspiring to take over the world, and

2. Ignorant, bigoted and hateful Westerners who mistakenly believe that the Muslims who are mistaken about the true teachings of Islam and who act against such true teachings, are representative of Islam itself.

This is the usual problem with the fantasy ideology of politically correct multiculturalism, and a source of great despair by all who desire to inhabit the fantasy world created by such wishful thinking.

It is a sad and even cruel truth, but even after the beautiful pictures are painted and put on display for all to behold, reality with all its ugly, grubby, distasteful, non-multicultural and impudently politically incorrect features, simply refuses to go away. Nothing changes.

The vision is created and propounded - but to no avail. When the smoke clears and the mirrors are taken down, there is the same old reality, grinning back at true believers as it squats across their path to their earthly paradise.

Pretending things are the way one thinks they should be and the way one wishes them to be does not, alas, change a thing. Nor, it might be noted, does shooting the messengers of the bad news of reality alter reality itself.

Posted by: Teleologicus | August 14, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

It is always the right time to do the right thing. Thank you, President Obama.

Posted by: gsross | August 14, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Your analysis is flawed and a sheer nonsense. I was a staunch supporter of the president. But actions such as this illogical speech, the firing of Ms. Sherrod and a slew of other things are turning me away from him very fast. Where was his so called spine when the poor Sherrod was being fired with no iota of evidence that he promoted racism? Where is his spine standing up for Christianity in this country or elsewhere? Where is his so called spine standing up for the minority interests in this country where the overwhelming majority in his White House and government are still white America?

If he wants to champion Islamic religion in America, he should also champion the rights of Christians in this country. Many pastors cannot preach freely again? In the Islamic nations, you even dare not give any hint that you are a Christian. The violent minded people will be ready to stone you to death. Take the case of the philanthropists who had spent large chunk of their lives helping the poor in Afghanistan being senseless killed by the moslems because the evil minded people felt that these agents of good were proselytizing for Christianity. I should have known. A man who abandonned his pastor of many years for political expediency is probably not a dependable person.

Posted by: midas20874 | August 14, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Is this the same individual who, during the presidential campaign, ridiculed
some simple folk for their reliance on "guns and bibles" and sat through 20
years of hate-filled "Christian" sermons?

Posted by: vadata060440 | August 14, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

So you want to shoot Muslims, not messengers, is that it?

Posted by: Liam-still | August 14, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Liam, me boyo!

"...Parishes and Parochial Schools all over the Land."

Never heard of the Blaine Amendment. Ye mam's gonna cuff ye fer not stoodyin.

Posted by: tao9 | August 14, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

http://quranbible.wordpress.com/2007/05/11/old-testament-stoning-verses/-

My citation of Deuteronomy was "held" so I'm passing on the link.

Posted by: -tao- | August 14, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Obama's experience as a lawyer with further concentration on the constitution came in handy, and it was commendable. But surely, a building that some muslims want to proceed with is not sufficient to deliver on his grand promises. I for one was expecting a breakthrough in the Israeli-Palestinian. Nothing much seems to have changed on that front

Posted by: Kingofkings1 | August 14, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

When you are a professional Obama hater, as many of the poster here are, Obama will always be wrong and it matters little that the flag of the GOP is being carried on a wave of bigotry and hate. He could have come out against it and would have been slammed for not respecting religious freedom. Oh, well….in the end now the teabaggers have a little less room to squeal about respecting the constitution, not that being ignorant hypocrites has ever gotten in their way before.

Posted by: hansenthered | August 14, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

"Or was it from The Life Of Brian?"

Jehovah! Jehovah!

Posted by: schrodingerscat | August 14, 2010 2:26 PM | Report abuse

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/stoning.html

A better link.

Posted by: -tao- | August 14, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Hardly! The LAST thing the President needed is to step into another controversy that wasn't forced on him. A Ramadan dinner is dumb enough to begin with, but most Presidents know enough to stay out of local politics. He didn't win any votes that he didn't already have, but he certainly lost many votes he can't afford. This reconciliation of religions isn't going to happen in the next 3 months, or 2 years, which is what he needs to focus on unless he wants to be remembered as a JImmy Carter-like president.

Posted by: 54465446 | August 14, 2010 2:29 PM | Report abuse


Liam, me boyo!

"...Parishes and Parochial Schools all over the Land."

Never heard of the Blaine Amendment. Ye mam's gonna cuff ye fer not stoodyin.

Posted by: tao9

............

Sure I heard of it, but what is your point. That amendment was just trying to lock the barn door after we had already pissed in WASP soup all over the land.

They should have never let us in, because we have ruined America.


Posted by: Liam-still | August 14, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

"The presidents first and most important job is to protect the CITIZENS of the United States...this does that HOW?"

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Try actually reading the Constitution instead of getting the abbreviated version from Fox News.....believe it or not there's more in there than the 2nd amendment.

If you'll notice, his oath, as dictated by the constitution, is quite explicit: it is not to "protect the citizens of the United States", but rather to "preserve, protect and defend the CONSTITUTION of the United States."

Posted by: schrodingerscat | August 14, 2010 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Last night I expressed some regard and consideration for those with a genuinely nuanced fear or disagreement with building the Cultural Center so close to the exposed site of the 9/11 attack. I haven't noticed any of those opinions here. Lots of fear and hatred but there doesn't seem to be anything rational or nuanced about it.

This is not a game, we either respect the constitution and religious freedom that our country was built upon or we travel down a path of protectionist isolationism and rid ourselves of people we don't agree with. Once we start, where does it end? The entire world is not full of only two kinds of people, those who are with us or those who are against us, it's much more complicated than that.

We have always striven to be a diverse country tolerant of other cultures and religions, how did four airplanes with a couple of handfuls or terrorists change that? It's a decline in our character to ignore our rich history of tolerance, freedom of speech and religion, and the ability to at least listen to people we may disagree with.

We have devolved into a country full of hatred and disrespect for others. I for one am really sick of it and worn out seeing the degradation of our once great country.

Posted by: lmsinca | August 14, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Oh puleeze. The WAPO and its liberal flacks think Obama has a Consti. point. But, his speech also made at the Ramadan din din told us (a lie btw) of the huge contributions Islam has made to the USA over 200 yrs. Yipe. List one Mr. Prez. Next, Con Edison owns that plot of land. It may or may not sell it to the Cordoba in your face project. Then, the NYC elites would never allow a memorial to be built by the KKK, SDS there and liberals all know it. Also, Muslims live in Brooklyn, not downtown NYC. Build it there. But to have a Triumphal Islamic 'so called outreach building' near their jihadist blow up is obscene. BTW, NYC has not built one brick to a memorial right on Ground Zero yet. Odd that. Liberals in charge???? As to the dunces who think this is just a conserv complaint, 70% and I will bet more after this so called brave comment by the Man-Child are against this blasphemy because it is insensitive. Something libs are always blathering about....but not in the case where 3000 Americans died under the horror of these same jihadist sharia madrasses types that just happen to want this shrine built! As to its political consequences, wait and see. If the loon who thought this would help Dems is serious, I have some swamp land I have to sell him, her in Fla.

Posted by: phillyfanatic | August 14, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

I keep hearing Right Wingers ranting against "Multiculturalism." What does that mean, and what do they support?
Monoculturalism? Where is that now being practiced? Where is it's Mecca? Lynchburg, Virginia, perhaps?!


What are it's enduring symbols?

Beef Jerky, Cheez Wiz, Mullet Hair Styles, White Lighting, and Rented Bowling Shoes?

Tell me more about this Mono Culture of yours.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 14, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

From Balloon Juice:

http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/08/14/the-cordoba-controversy-explained/#comments

My favorite comment:

"It’s a monument of victory over the infidels of Burlington Coat Factory!! "

Posted by: schrodingerscat | August 14, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Nothing short of a Gettysburg Address!

You want to REALLY see the Right Wing so-called "Christian" crowd destroy our peace and religious freedom - - - wait until one of the networks that carry preachers like Jimmy Swaggart, Pat Robertson, and Benny Hinn, ETC. are asked to make room for a Muslim Religious Hour!

Evangelists - WHO SHOULD BE MINDING THEIR OWN BUSINESS AND LEAVING THE REST OF US ALONE - are a more dangerous threat to Freedom than even Glenn Beck,Rush Limbaugh, Liz Cheney, Murdoch or Hannity!

Posted by: lufrank1 | August 14, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

as always, right on mr. president.
whatever is built on that spot will be an improvement over the empty gaping hole that has been there since september 11,2001.
muslims were killed in the bombings and many more are killed and wounded in american uniforms in iraq and afghanistan every day.
a place of prayer is uniquely more refreshing than any strip bar.
agree rnc?

Posted by: ninnafaye | August 14, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Is this the same individual who, during the presidential campaign, ridiculed
some simple folk for their reliance on "guns and bibles" and sat through 20
years of hate-filled "Christian" sermons?

Posted by: vadata060440
=====================

The very same. The Smart Guy. The guy that knows it all. It's not surprising that he knows the difference between true and false Islam, hence that he understands Islam better than Muslims themselves do. He understands the Constitution better than Americans do. He was, after all, a part time instructor in Constitutional law.

He is really, really smart. How smart? Well, he is so smart that he never had to accomplish or achieve anything in order to become president of the United States! He is so smart that he never needed to have worked at a real job or to have any actual experience to qualify him for the position of president. The reason he could skip all that and get right down to work being elected president was that he was too smart to waste his time on such petty details.

Smart guys like him don't have to make the details of their background, birth, education, travels, associates &etc. available to the public if they don't want to. They are way too smart to bother with such pedestrian nonsense.

Smart guys like Mr. Obama understand everything about economics even though they have never worked, managed a business, or even spent much time studying economics. They are so smart they know it all in advance.

Needless to say, Mr. Obama is so smart he knows how America should really be, rather than the way it actually is. That is why he has said he intends "to fundamentally transform the United States of America." The existing model is well beneath his personal standards.

Smart guys know that the world would be better off without nuclear weapons, and that the way to get rid of nuclear weapons is for the United States to lead the way by gradual unilateral disarmament that will inspire everyone else to follow our example.

And smart guys know that bending over backwards to be nice and to appease enemies, assuring them that we mean them no harm, and avoiding giving them any grounds for offense, is the best way to cause them to stop being our enemies and to make them our friends.

Of course this policy only works with foreign enemies, not with domestic political opponents and Americans who disagree with Mr. Obama. The latter can be insulted, ridiculed, ignored without regard to their feelings and beliefs, since what they happen to think and believe is of absolutely no consequence anyway.

Posted by: Teleologicus | August 14, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

@phillyfanatic. Interesting that ConEd owns the land. I guess that explains why the New York State Public Service Commission has to approve it. I was wondering why they had to weigh in on it.

So if Con Ed hasn't sold the land yet, they are probably rethinking that sale. It is going to be much more trouble than it is worth. Why annoy 70% of the country and the majority of your service area? I am sure there will be pressure put on Con Ed not to sell to these people. No government involvement needed - just the free market in action.

The good guys may just pull this one out after all.

Posted by: sold2u | August 14, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

"But didn't the Muslims get that whole stoning to death thing from the Bible?"

Could be.

Where they got the AK47 pt/blank headshot to half-a-dozen women in a SRO soccer stadium is a complete mystery.*

{*Could it be Saaaataaaaaan?}

Posted by: tao9 |

.................

Well, there you go again;

Trying to infringe on people's rights" to bear upgraded arms. You second amendment hating Pinko Muslim Fascist Baby Killer.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 14, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

One more thought, why don't people understand that non-Americans don't always have the same values as we do? Religious freedom is not considered a good thing in many parts of the world, so we can't "impress" the Muslim world by acts which have no value in their contemporary culture. 500-1000 years ago, it was Islam that was the tolerant culture and Christianity that was intolerant. Those ideas have done a 180. There is nowhere in the Islamic world that a church or synagogue could be built under similar circumstances, so why would we think they would applaud this move? It would be similar to Muslim communities stoning criminals to death, and then not understanding why Americans aren't impressed by their use of the death penalty.

Posted by: 54465446 | August 14, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

We don't do it for them. We do it for ourselves. We do it to uphold our values. Should we tear them down to the lowest common denominator in the entire world?


Posted by: Liam-still | August 14, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

The attack of 9/11 destroyed a Greek Orthodox Church. As of today, New York City authorities have not given this church permission to rebuilt and, as a consequence, this church has not been rebuilt. I guess it is politically correct to allow a Muslim community center to proceed, but, at the same time, it is acceptable to treat a Green Orthodox church shabbily. I note that no one wants to draw attention to this story.

Posted by: jeffreed | August 14, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

I too thought Obama was 'Spineless'. However for him to take this stand tells me I was wrong - I see now that Obama really doesn't like Blacks and gays all that much.

Posted by: question-guy | August 14, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

"One more thought, why don't people understand that non-Americans don't always have the same values as we do?"

What's your point? That we shouldn't uphold our own values and laws because other people don't/won't/can't appreciate them?

"There is nowhere in the Islamic world that a church or synagogue could be built under similar circumstances, so why would we think they would applaud this move?"

I don't care if they applaud this move or not. I don't cherish the Constitution because of what others think about it. The fact that a church or synagogue wouldn't be built elsewhere under similar circumstances is all the MORE reason for us to do this. Whatever happened to American Exceptionalism?

Posted by: schrodingerscat | August 14, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Ummm...your hero just backed down.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0810/Obama_narrows_mosque_defense.html?showall

Posted by: jimboster | August 14, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

What a moron! Actually, both the author and the President are moronic. In typical Obama fashion Obama's administration is walking back the comments, with their tail between their legs, less than 12 hours later! What a joke. A disaster for the Democrats running in the Fall.

Posted by: JackReacher | August 14, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

This is not a matter of freedom of religion nor a matter of constitutional rights. This is a matter of national pride and a matter of traditional American spirit.

Ground Zero in New York is a severe wound upon our America which will be remembered as long as there are Americans to remember this horrific event. Ground Zero is considered as sacred as any national monument around our nation. Ground Zero is off limits to political hypocrisy and religious hypocrisy.

Our peoples are free to erect buildings and icons as we please, but we are not free to build those things anywhere we like. We would not allow the Ku Klux Klan to build a cross burning site near the Washington Monument nor more than we would allow Christians to build a glass cathedral on an American Indian reservation.

We are a free peoples and we are free to display sensitivity and respect for all peoples, just as we are free to object to infringement upon our sensibilities.

This building of a monstrous mosque so near "sacred" American soil is a display by Muslims of significant disrespect for our nation, for our America. Muslims have a right to build mosques, Muslims do not have a right to slap Lady Liberty across her face.

Personally, I am exceptionally offended Muslims are even considering this offense to our American pride and our personal sensibilities.

A photo is worth a thousand words:

http://www.purlgurl.net/~puma/misc/obama_allah.jpg

Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation

Posted by: PurlGurl | August 14, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Also, SG, should the Catholic Church (or the Lutherans) put up churches at the site of Nazi concentration camps? You are a stupid kid.

Posted by: JackReacher | August 14, 2010 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Try actually reading the Constitution instead of getting the abbreviated version from Fox News.....believe it or not there's more in there than the 2nd amendment.

If you'll notice, his oath, as dictated by the constitution, is quite explicit: it is not to "protect the citizens of the United States", but rather to "preserve, protect and defend the CONSTITUTION of the United States."

How's that working out for you? If he were republican you'd be clamoring for his impeachment. Stick around, there are rumblings about impeachment for Hussein. Meanwhile, come November and he ends up being politically castrated, he can play as many rounds of ggolf and take as many vacationsas he wants.

Posted by: AbingtonJim | August 14, 2010 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Just because an informal 70% majority think a thing culturally incorrect or "insensitive" doesn't make it right. Likewise, just because 52% of voters enact a state law that violates the U.S. Constitution doesn't make it constitutional

Consider the TYRANNY OF THE MAJORITY: A fear expressed variously by Plato, Aristotle, Madison, Tocqueville, and J. S. Mill. If the majority rules, what is to stop it from expropriating the minority, or from tyrannizing it in other ways by enforcing the majority's religion, language, or culture on the minority? Madison's answer in The Federalist is the best known. He argued that the United States must have a federal structure. http://www.answers.com/topic/tyranny-of-the-majority

Posted by: -tao- | August 14, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

link regarding the Greek Orthodox church that has been trying to re build to no avail... its amazing what 100 million dollars in blood money will do, just ask Mayor Mike Bloomberg, he's all for the project...

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/08/nine-years-later-church-at-ground-zero-still-not-rebuilt-but-mad-rush-to-build-islamic-supremacist-m.html

Posted by: ObammyGonnaGitYa | August 14, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Whatever happened to American Exceptionalism?

Posted by: schrodingerscat | August 14, 2010 2:58 PM
======================

Leftist multiculturalist ideologues like Mr. Obama killed it.

Posted by: Teleologicus | August 14, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Why does a radical Imam want to build a Mosque and giant Islamic center right next to ground zero where radical Islam murdered 3000 Americans? HATE! In your face hatred meant to celebrate what extreme Islam considers its victory on 9/11, and a desire to inflict more pain and suffering on the familes and the nation! All Americans support religious freedom and tolerance. Tolerating HATRED is not an American value. Obama has indeed sided with the 9/11 hijackers by supporting this hateful act. The contempt he and the Democrats have for the American people who oppose this travesty is beyond belief. There is only one answer in our system. It comes in November. A vote for any Democrat in November is a vote to continue this insanity and the insanity with our economy! November!!!!

Posted by: valwayne | August 14, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Greg

You say moral right - legal right


And yet you seem to ignore the central truth: IT IS WRONG to build that mosque in Lower Manhattan.

It has to do with sensitivity to the victim.


And if you believe the mosque should be there, you are inciting violence - and you are not American.


The mosque is not building bridges - it is PURE DISRESPECT.

PUTTING A MOSQUE IN LOWER MANHATTAN IS OFFENSIVE TO ALL AMERICANS. PLEASE LEAVE THE COUNTRY IMMEDIATELY.

.

Posted by: SummerDreams | August 14, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

President Obama has not backed off from what he said yesterday, regardless of how right wing nut jobs try to spin.

He merely said that he has not commented on the wisdom of deciding to build the center, and he said he will not comment on that.

Fact: he never did comment on the wisdom of the decision. What point would there be in he doing so. Then he would be entering the speculation arena.

What he said last night, was based on the factual rights bestowed by the Constitution.

Refusing to engage in speculation, about if they should have or should not, is the wise stance to take, and has nothing to do with what he said last night.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 14, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

SCHRODINGERSCAT:

You wrote: "What's your point? That we shouldn't uphold our own values and laws because other people don't/won't/can't appreciate them?"

The law has already been upheld in this regard. There is no legal controversy. The point is that the President was making his speech to try and impress the Islamic world. That's why he chose to do it at the Ramadan dinner. However he was shooting himself in the foot politically to appeal to people who don't vote and wouldn't be impressed by this gesture anyway.

Posted by: 54465446 | August 14, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Hey Liam-still.....

You're Irish, right?

I thought the Irish kissed the Blarney Stone.....

In your case I think the Blarney Stone hit you right between your eyes!!!

Good luck on your recovery!!!

Posted by: jworsr | August 14, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

To be honest, I don't believe that Obama was offended by the attacks on America on 9/11 like Americans were.


People are out there, calling into question how American Obama really is.

And yet, time and time again, Obama gives us reason to doubt that he is a real American - and sometimes he actually proves that he does not stand with America.

The facts do not support that Obama loves this country.

NO real American would support this mosque - only those with their loyalies elsewhere would support this mosque. They can have the mosque in Brooklyn and no one would care.


Why is that not an adequate compromise?

Posted by: SummerDreams | August 14, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

To be honest, I don't believe that Obama was offended by the attacks on America on 9/11 like Americans were.
___________________________________________

To take that a step further, I think he (and a lot of the Left) believe we asked for it.

Posted by: sold2u | August 14, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Please stop calling it a "Cultural Center" when it is actually a "Monument to the 9/11 islamic highjackers".

I refuse to dance around the truth.

Posted by: JoeCasepack | August 14, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Obama is the definition of a liberal elite. He accused western Pennsylvanians of "clinging to their guns and religion" during the campaign, but he's willing to go to bat for Islam. It's unfortunate that the President doesn't stand against Wall St. excesses, illegal aliens, or for JOBS--all of which are much more important than this mosque.

Posted by: woof3 | August 14, 2010 3:20 PM | Report abuse

He said, while dancing around the truth.


I heard the same justifications for why America should engage in torture, coming from the same Right Wing creeps who would tear up our constitution.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 14, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Short and sweet

Obama is wrong. He is inexperienced and it is showing. The country does not want this... all the political correctness in the world does not change the fact that this thing can be built elsewhere, not on the front steps of the graves of so many hero's and a few Muslim terrorists... The stupidity of some is overwhelming. The liberal bias of the Washington post is not.

Posted by: ObammyGonnaGitYa | August 14, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

The sullen peasants aren't as stupid as faux intellectuals;

Posted by: happyacres

-------------------------------
No, but are apparently as stupid as faux news wants them to be.

Obama finally grew some.

Posted by: areyousaying | August 14, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Stop calling it "Ground Zero". It's two blocks away.

Posted by: areyousaying | August 14, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

I listened to the whole speech. It is well delivered as always, but wildly exaggerates the place and history of Islam in American life to prove his point. Unfortunately, the President remains too much the lecturing college professor he once was, and not enough of the exceutive leader he never learned to be.

Posted by: 54465446 | August 14, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Obama's surrender to Islam's 9-11 victory is the latest in a string of treasonous actions for which he has yet to be held accountable. There is no question that this is a victory shrine, and that is how it will be viewed by Muslims. The President has no right to surrender or to apologize on behalf of America. Liberal fascism must be confronted forcefully if freedom is to be restored.

Posted by: doctorfixit | August 14, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

I propose we Americans sponsor and build a Christian church in downtown Kabul, Afghanistan. We can pass out translated Bibles and preach the word of Jesus Christ.

This will well prove Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance.

Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation

Posted by: PurlGurl | August 14, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

I wonder if the old WTC cast a shadow two blocks away?

Posted by: JoeCasepack | August 14, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

regarding the comment "Stop calling it "Ground Zero". It's two blocks away."

the ignorance of some knows no bounds. The entire downtown NY area is hallowed ground. Landing gear from one of the crashed planes hit the roof of the site they plan to build on.

Watch and see how the talking heads spin this and back peddle... "What Obama really meant was..."

Posted by: ObammyGonnaGitYa | August 14, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

And again its amply demonstrated that comments on webpages are the lowest level of discourse in our country. To all the hateful, anti-American right wingers that have commented thus far and clogged this page with their incendiary stupidity: I hope in 50 years when people look back on this recent period of anti-Muslim hysteria with all the revulsion with which we now regard the McCarthy era that you'll look back on your present comments and feel the shame that your paranoid hatred shields you from now. That when your child, grandchild, great-grandchild, etc comes home from school with his or her history book and asks you, "How on earth could people have behaved that way towards their fellow Americans in 2010? Hadn't they read the constitution?" that you'll laugh uneasily and say "I don't know," remembering your own comments. That is if you haven't all burned your books and moved to some mountain fortress with your stockpiles of weapons to protect yourselves against the throngs of Mexicans, Muslims, and married gays that are surely out to destroy your lives.
Every generation has its bogeymen. In the '50's and '60's it was communists and President Kennedy. Now its the muslims and President Obama. The communists didn't succeed in mounting a fifth column and taking over this country, and neither will the Muslims (who have no desire to by the way). Get a grip people.
This speech by Obama will go down in history as one of the finest moments of his Presidency whether the fear-mongering wackos like it or not.

Posted by: lorax382 | August 14, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

There is no conceivable reason to build a mosque on the site of the 9/11 attack.

It is appallingly insensitive, tasteless and insulting. Dressing it up as a 'freedom of religion' issue is merely disgraceful.

The bizarre idea that this is some sort of 'teachable moment' goes far beyond contempt for the American people. It is the distilled essence of political correctness.

Obama did not need to enter into this issue. He has hurt every Democrat running for office in 2010 (and 2012), except those running in hard-left districts. All of them will now have to defend the indefensible: how is it possible to support and advocate for a mosque on the World Trade Center site?

It is remarkable how far the left has fallen. The weird fantasy world of political correctness is all they have left.

Posted by: timr1 | August 14, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Liamaleen,

You're killin' me, squire!

I reckon this is all settled down now and we've gone about as fer as we can go...let's us clingers and toadies all have a dosEquis with the Most Interesting One-Term President In The World!

Posted by: tao9 | August 14, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

DL13 is absolutely correct. "The man is clueless." It is not about religion, it is about sensitivity to the families who lost loved ones on 9/11.

The Muslims who planned to build on this site have no concern for those families or this country. If they did they would not even consider the site, but find another one.

I have not been fond of Obama and his policies but this speech turns my feelings into pure dislike and disrespect for the man. He could have given a respectful, much shorter speech to his guests on this day and shown respect for their religion and not even mentioned the mosque. But no. He used the speech to disregard all Americans and specifically the families of the 911 victims.

I think the planners of the mosque in that location have an ulterior motive and it is not positive for our country. I don't trust them or their Iman who Obama is sending on a trip abroad and who has intimated that the US deserved the 911 attacks.

2012 can't come soon enough and we can only pray that Obama does not do too much damage to our country prior to November 2012.

Posted by: Kansas28 | August 14, 2010 3:37 PM | Report abuse

ummm, nope. Muslim extremist's crashed the two planes into the twin towers and killed over 3000 innocents, no matter how hard you try to ignore that, that is what happen.

Posted by: ObammyGonnaGitYa | August 14, 2010 3:37 PM | Report abuse

IT IS ALSO MY US CONSTITUTIONAL FREE SPEECH RIGHT TO TYPE AND SAY THE FULL N WORD , but is it politcally correct?

Obama,( as a void signature by hidden history as a public offical), has never endeared the US Constution, unless it is to twist it into his will.

Obongo can beat the drum and take the proverbial amount of rope he needs to hang himself and all the Democrats out of the House, Congress, and Oval offices forever.

Go ahead and try it.
Muslim will become unwelcome more quickly.

Obama should have no problem with the Branch Dividean insistance on a shrine to themselves on that piece of White House lawn Michelle tore up.

Posted by: dottydo | August 14, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Greg, Your hero (and no doubt lover if he would go for it), has already started to back off his comments from last night. Once again he created a strawman (almost no one on the right questioned the legal right to build a mosque there only the failure of the muslims and their leftists apologists to consider the feelings of New Yorkers and Americans who lost loved ones there), and couldn't care less about the effect on Americans. But that's the way you are on the left. You would never consider fighting for this country. You might publicly say nice things about the military, but actually joining it are for the stupid suckers - the dumb church-going republicans. Not the elites like you, who've never started a business, never had a job, where you managed a person, never had to worry about your elite education since mommy and daddy were always there for their little Greg. In short, Greg you've never done anything positve for this country except criticize those who stand for it. And by the way Post, just because Sargent gets a few eyeballs here, you are not getting a cent for your left-wing print edition.

Posted by: MrRealistic | August 14, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Summersdream: It is WRONG to smoke, eat a high saturated fat diet, drive drunk, jaywalk, molest children, divorce, blaspheme, covet your neighbor's goods or spouse, be inhospitable, etc. etc., depending on whose rules you are following. By what standard is it wrong to build a religion based center at a particular location where local zoning allows the use? Just because you and others don't like it doesn't make it wrong.

Posted by: -tao- | August 14, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

STOP THE PRESSES!
Barky is now walking it back:

"I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there."

Posted by: happyacres | August 14, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Well if Con Ed really owns the site, they can be pressured not to sell to these guys.

No government involvement necessary.

Posted by: sold2u | August 14, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Well written and much deserved tribute to a courageous President. And an appropriate rebuke to those demagogues who pretend such concern for the Constitution and New York City. Let the record clearly show that many of them are the same people who were perfectly willing to `saw off New York City and let it float out to sea' (Barry Goldwater) or described in the famous headline of the 70's as the city faced bankruptcy -- `Gerald Ford to New York: Drop Dead.' Happily New York City and this President will not be their patsies!

Posted by: taxpayer2 | August 14, 2010 3:45 PM | Report abuse

ObammyGonnaGitYa comments, "no matter how hard you try to ignore that, that is what happen."

As I type, out there in the world, Muslims are cutting noses and ears off young girls, beheading nuns, hanging gays, shooting women in their heads, splashing acid in the faces of school girls, blowing up buses and trains, slaughtering humanitarian workers, killing our military boys and girls along with planning to slaughter thousands whenever and wherever possible.

However, the greatest injury to our nation and to our peoples is our left liberal mainstream media refusing to be truthful about this.

Like JoeCasepack, "I refuse to dance around the truth."

Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation

Posted by: PurlGurl | August 14, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

back peddle all you like Bim Bammy, the jihad is out of the bag.

70% disapprove of the mosque location and Bammy announces his support after a Ramadan dinner... yep, his finest moment to date indeed.

Posted by: ObammyGonnaGitYa | August 14, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Freedom of religion - nonsense. There are already over 100 mosques in NYC and Gov Paterson offered an alternative site which was declined.

Ok, if it's about Constitutional Freedoms I've just purchased a bill board next to the MLK memorial in Atlanta and plan to put up a 40 ft Stars and Bars flag.

Any of you nitwits have a problem w/ that?

Posted by: JohnLeeHooker1 | August 14, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Well written and much deserved tribute to a courageous President. And an appropriate rebuke to those demagogues who pretend such concern for the Constitution and New York City. Let the record clearly show that many of them are the same people who were perfectly willing to `saw off New York City and let it float out to sea' (Barry Goldwater) or described in the famous headline of the 70's as the city faced bankruptcy -- `Gerald Ford to New York: Drop Dead.' Happily New York City and this President will not be their patsies!

Posted by: taxpayer2 | August 14, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse

I listened to President Obama's speech and watched it on my PC. I am proud of him and glad you are too. I am glad that he is deliberative and does not make decisions immediately. It is a wonder if he has any free time. Yet he manages to eat dinner with his family every night if he is in town. There is a good article in Vanity Fair magazine this week by Todd S, Purdum that speaks of a single day in the life of the president. I wish everyone could read it online or go and buy it. It was the agenda for one day a few weeks ago. That day, Obama was dealing with a coal-mine tragedy, a vacancy on the Supreme Court, a new law in Arizona about immigration, a shortage of disaster relief funds at the Federal Emergency Management Agency, The administration's latest plans for trying Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and other alleged 9/11 conspirators. nomination of a supreme court judge, seven United States attorneys, and six federal marshals; presenting Garth Brooks with a special "Grammys on the Hill" award, and then, planning for the next day when he would announce a new strategy for the space program; express condolences on the passing of the civil rights leader Dr. Benjamin Hooks; order hospitals that participate in Medicare or Medicaid not to deny people visitation based on sexual orientation; release his and Michelle’s joint income-tax returns, and travel to Florida for a two evening fund-raisers for the Democratic National Committee.
Obama starts his day early and works late at night. I appreciate that and wish him the best in his endeavors.

Posted by: ThelmaMcCoy | August 14, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

yes, your bill board will be culturally inappropriate, but a Mosque at the grave site of 3000 plus hero's, sure, not a problem at all

Posted by: ObammyGonnaGitYa | August 14, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

This should have never become a
national issue. The zoning board
has every right to require information
on the funding of any large project before it is approved. There is no Constitutional right to build anywhere.
Clearly most of those making this
a freedom of religion issue haven't
spent any time with a land use or
zoning board. The zealous support
of this project without knowing if it's
being funded by terrorists is negligent. We have spent untold
$$$$$$$ billions since 9/11 for
"national security" but we don't check
funding for a ground zero mosque,
don't protect our borders, don't
compare entrance visas with exits and
generally have no idea who lives
here. When an illegal is noticed, it
has more rights than a citizen. A
country who lets illegals set immigration policies has made its
sovereignty a joke. If we don't return to requirements of self-sufficiency, employment and
sponsorship, our downward spiral
into eternal bankruptcy will intensify.

Posted by: giatny | August 14, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

The Islamic Victory Mosque is getting supported by WHO???

Obama himself said the Constitution has certain "birth defects" - this is one of them.

If we need a Constitutional Amendment to stop mosques on the Island of Manhattan, so be it.


They can blame Osama bin Laden and al Queda - because before 9/11 no one would have objected to this mosque.

But 9/11 did happen - and the mosque is now OFFENSIVE TO ALL REAL AMERICANS.

Obama has a real problem.

In addition, the mosque INCITES VIOLENCE - the mosque is like crying fire in a crowded movie house - there is a public safety danger here.

Yes, there are exceptions to the First Amendment.


THIS IS ONE OF THEM.


It is sad that Greg Sargent and many commenters here do not see that

Perhaps it is time for them to leave America - see how the Muslims treat other religions - and maybe they will realize that is little restriction is not too much to ask.


Is it too much to ask ???

The attitude of the commenters here supporting Obama is really pathetic.

.


.

Posted by: SummerDreams | August 14, 2010 3:55 PM | Report abuse

mr.obama is supposed to be smart ... so starting with that premise, i assume that he's aware that in that the predominately christian/western culture we erect "monuments" to our fallen heroes and as memorials to honor (e.g. think washington memorial; ground zero memorial; et al.) ... on the other hand, the muslim world generally erects "monuments" in honor of great victories ... with that said, how in the world could our bright president be unaware that the proposed mosque would be regarded by the muslim world as anything other than a monument to the "victorious" radicals who perpetrated the massacre on our soil ... unless of course, he is aware of it and thinks it's just fine ...

Posted by: mikey8 | August 14, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

It is amazing - this mosque is EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE.

However, it is the far-left liberals - the ones who care about "sensitivity" all the time - who appear to putting sensitivity aside -


This mosque angers people - and it HAS A HIGH PROBABILITY OF INCITING VIOLENCE

For that reason alone, there should be an exception to the First Amendment for that.

.

Posted by: SummerDreams | August 14, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

TAXPAYER2:

You wrote: "Let the record clearly show that many of them are the same people who were perfectly willing to `saw off New York City and let it float out to sea' (Barry Goldwater) or described in the famous headline of the 70's as the city faced bankruptcy -- `Gerald Ford to New York: Drop Dead.' Happily New York City and this President will not be their patsies!"

Ummm . . . actually, you've got it backwards. It was the NY Jewish financial community that largely brought the city "back" as you say. On the whole (excepting Bloomberg) this community OPPOSES the Mosque, not supports it.

Posted by: 54465446 | August 14, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abuse

A Confederate flag billboard next to the MLK memorial would eloquently juxtapose division (secession and segregation) and inclusion (union and equality). Do it. The two symbols will be a testament to how far the nation has come and overcome.

Posted by: -tao- | August 14, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

ObammyGonnaGitYa comments, "no matter how hard you try to ignore that, that is what happen."

As I type, out there in the world, Muslims are cutting noses and ears off young girls, beheading nuns, hanging gays, shooting women in their heads, splashing acid in the faces of school girls, blowing up buses and trains, slaughtering humanitarian workers, killing our military boys and girls along with planning to slaughter thousands whenever and wherever possible.
Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation

Posted by: PurlGurl | August 14, 2010 3:47 PM
==================

The people committing the atrocities you describe, like those responsible for the 9-11 attacks on America as well as the suicide bombings all over the world, are not really Muslims, and the Islam they claim to practice is not really Islam. They do not understand the true teachings of Islam, for Islam does not condone and in fact is adamantly opposed to the crimes they commit.

It is all one big, horrible, ghastly, bloody mistake, one that began with the Prophet himself, who also did not understand the true teachings of Islam.

All of the wars of conquest and imperialism of Muslims against the West for over one thousand years were based upon a completely mistaken understanding of the true tenets of Islam. It was all against the teachings of true Islam, which is peaceful, does not condone religious war, has no desire to impose itself on the rest of the world, and certainly does not believe in violence in any form, least of all against infidels.

One wonders if perhaps the True Muslims ought to apologize and make some sort of reparations for the actions of crimes committed in the name of Muslims who did not understand Islam rightly.

It would of course be mainly symbolic, but the return of Constantinople would certainly be received as a gesture of good will by those whose ancestors suffered because of the terrible mistakes made by a thousand years of Muslims who failed to grasp the real teachings of Islam.

If this went well, consideration might be given to the gradual return to the West of North Africa, Egypt, Palestine, Syria, Iraq and other countries invaded and conquered a thousand years ago by mistaken Muslims. The true Muslims would then be right back where they started from and where Islam tells them to be, on the Arabian peninsula, minding their own business and living in peace according to the real Islam that they have always practiced.

Posted by: Teleologicus | August 14, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Gad. A veritable parade of bigotry and race hatred. I don't think I've seen the like of this since and anti-Jew pogroms.

Posted by: bernielatham | August 14, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Gad. who says Gad? Bigotry and race hatred? or common sense. A monument to the Muslim extremist on the front steps of Ground Zero? The sheer insanity of it is amazing...

Posted by: ObammyGonnaGitYa | August 14, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

"People have a right to build mosques wherever they darn well please. They just better quit listening to Rush Limbaugh and Fox News or working for the Cambridge Police Department or being a Special Olympian or a Navy Corpse Man." - Barack H. Obama

Posted by: chatard | August 14, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Quick, who said it?

"One of the great strengths of our nation is its religious diversity. Americans practice many different faiths. We all share a belief in the right to worship freely. We reject bigotry in all its forms. And over the past eight years, my administration has been proud to work closely with Muslim Americans to promote justice and tolerance of all faiths."

And better yet, on what occasion did he say it?

http://politics.usnews.com/news/blogs/god-and-country/2009/09/01/the-mind-behind-obamas-ramadan-dinner-george-w-bush.html

Posted by: CalD | August 14, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Uncharacteristically,Obama showed some spine Friday. Characteristically,however, it crumbled Saturday.

Posted by: vismorge | August 14, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Gee Whiz! What's wrong with a Muslim president wanting a mosque at the site of a great Muslim victory he likes to quietly celebrate?

Posted by: BillCarson2 | August 14, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Worst muslim president ever.

Too bad he can be "decisive" on matters that divide America but can't be decisive on defending America; Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, the Mexican border, North Korea, etc.

Posted by: archie521 | August 14, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Greg: The joke is on you! Your "profile in courage" is now walking back his strong endorsement of Islam (or whatever the hell it was). You know, those remarks "which will go down as one of the finest moments of his presidency".

If that was one of the finest moments of Obama's Presidency, I wonder what his worst might be?

Acting true to form, Obama is now "voting present" on the conflict he whipped up. The "Vacillator in Chief" is a wuss, a sneak, unprincipled and will betray anyone (himself included) as the mood might strike him. A narcissist through and through.

How does it feel to be punked by the President of the United States, Greg? Get up off your knees, Greg! You are a "Tea Bagger" in the literal sense, and the President has just prematurely shot his w**! Serves you right.

Seriously, I pity anyone who is dumb enough to believe that this guy has any character, or intellectual honesty. Obama is poorly/badly educated; an affirmative action drone, and a real embarresment to the country: a rootless, jumped-up guttersnipe.

Posted by: brucehodge9 | August 14, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

This is a truly sad and depressing thread.

It's like intolerance on parade in here.

Posted by: PorkBelly | August 14, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

TELEOLOGICUS:

You wrote (in satire): "All of the wars of conquest and imperialism of Muslims against the West for over one thousand years were based upon a completely mistaken understanding of the true tenets of Islam"

Yes, that's true, just as the wars of Christians against all were equally mistaken. Just as the wars of extermination fought by the ancient Israelites were mistaken. Religion is the excuse, no matter what the paricular sect is.

Posted by: 54465446 | August 14, 2010 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Best post of the day so far:

-Worst muslim president ever.

Too bad he can be "decisive" on matters that divide America but can't be decisive on defending America; Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, the Mexican border, North Korea, etc.

Posted by: ObammyGonnaGitYa | August 14, 2010 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Did BHO fast on Friday? How many of the muslim advisor's to this administration are unindicted co-conspirators from the Holy Land Foundation trial? Or are fronts for the Muslim Brotherhood? Does freedom of religion include sharia law?

Posted by: johnjrmbo29 | August 14, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

What 'finest moment of the presidency' ? The latest CNN poll shows only 29% of Americans is in support of the decision of building a maga mosque near ground zero. Seven out of ten people is against building mosque at ground zero.

Posted by: ypcchiu | August 14, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Gad. A veritable parade of bigotry and race hatred. I don't think I've seen the like of this since and anti-Jew pogroms.

Posted by: bernielatham
================================

Then you must not have been watching closely.

The Left always spews its venom and practices character assassination against anyone who disputes its ideology. It is altogether routine for Leftists to denounce people with whom they disagree about something as bigots, racists and haters.

One rarely disagrees with a Leftist about anything without getting skunked with such pejoratives. It sometimes seems that Leftists think merely disagreeing with them about something is a kind of hate crime in itself. They are always talking about hate, haters, bigots, racists, etc. etc. etc.

Of course many people think it is the Leftists themselves who are the real haters, just as they think it is the Leftists themselves who are intolerant, dogmatic, poorly informed, and yes, even racist.

Leftists, as one might expect, pay no attention to such observations, for they regard them nothing but further evidence of hate by stupid people who hate everything and everybody good - beginning with Leftists.

Posted by: Teleologicus | August 14, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Obama should resign over his support for this mosque.


He is unAmerican.

It is intolerable for the country to have a President who has such a position on this issue.

The mosque is OFFENSIVE TO ALL REAL AMERICANS.


It is about time the democrats began to split from Obama - aren't you all tired of all of this yet ?

.

Posted by: SummerDreams | August 14, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

What 'finest moment of the presidency' ? The latest CNN poll shows only 29% of Americans is in support of the decision of building a maga mosque near ground zero. Seven out of ten people is against building mosque at ground zero.

Posted by: ypcchiu | August 14, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

well, it is perfectly clear that if you dont agree with Bim Bammy you are a intolerant bigot. That's the thought of the day. Yep, unless you drink the kool aid you are a racist who does not know a thing about being an enlightened elitist.

Posted by: ObammyGonnaGitYa | August 14, 2010 4:19 PM | Report abuse

soldu at 313

To be honest, I don't believe that Obama was offended by the attacks on America on 9/11 like Americans were.
___________________________________________

To take that a step further, I think he (and a lot of the Left) believe we asked for it


________________________________

You are right - it is a complete outrage

Posted by: SummerDreams | August 14, 2010 4:23 PM | Report abuse

all we need is love

Posted by: dcox82 | August 14, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

...and Obama continues to propigate his slide even further into the popularity basement. On every major issue he is against generally 2/3 of the American electorate. And this is his finest hour??? Reminding us of grade-school civics and having some fawning reporter trump it up as "his finest hour"?

His "finest hour" was election night. From there it's all been downhill, and will continue to be so. He is now going to be hitting the 30 percentile mark in popularity - a mark from which only 1 president has ever been re-elected.

I couldn't be happier. The more this president continues to exhibit contrary stances (indeed in this case there was no "courage" and he clearly, clearly did not have to jump into this fray), the more he and his ilk will be voted into the vacuum of history. I'm delighted that he is pretty much paving his way to removal... and even 2 months ago I never dreamed he would be this stupid. But he is...

Posted by: mikeinaustintx | August 14, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

BHO came out of the Islamic closet last night at the Ramadan Dinner ~~ not that the door was closed when he was in the closet..... With his speech, BHO confirmed what most of us already knew ~~ he's a Muslim at heart, and a Muslim in deed!

He was born a Muslim, his early education followed Islamic traditions ~~ Islam led and BHO's heart followed ~~ and holds him hostage to the goals of Islam, including establishment of a world caliphate and the iron-fisted rule of sharia law..... Of this there is no doubt.....

Now, we as a nation, are confronted by the existence of an anti-American Muslim holding our highest office, intent on replacing capitalism and meritocracy with socialism and conformity while bankrupting the country and holding the door wide-open for Islamic infiltration.....

BHO lies with great facility, abetted by "useful idiots" who, for whatever reasons, choose to dangle at the end of the strings he manipulates ~~ and who, himself, dangles at the end of strings manipulated by enemies of the United States, in and outside of our borders.....

BHO's political bedfellows must be replaced come the November 2nd elections......

BHO must be replaced come the presidential election of November, 2012!!!

Posted by: jworsr | August 14, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

"Inspired by Adolf Hitler's theories of racial struggle and the "intent" of the Jews to survive and expand at the expense of Germans, the Nazis, as a governing party from 1933-1938, ordered anti-Jewish boycotts, staged book burnings, and enacted anti-Jewish legislation. In 1935, the Nuremberg Laws defined Jews by race and mandated the total separation of "Aryans" and "non-Aryans." On November 9, 1938, the Nazis destroyed synagogues and the shop windows of Jewish-owned stores throughout Germany and Austria (Kristallnacht). These measures aimed at both legal and social segregation of Jews from Germans and Austrians."
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007167

It takes a while to identify the sources of evil in the world, but once identified, there's really nothing for it but to get rid of them.

Posted by: bernielatham | August 14, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

The ink's fairly dry on this brown nose piece when the president pulls the rug out from under the author.
HEH

The right knows him better than you do.

Posted by: clarice2 | August 14, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

I find many of the comments on this blog OFFENSIVE to America.


If someone supports this Islamic Victory Mosque, you really need to do some serious thinking.


A real American who is President would have all the mosque proponents arrested as TERRORISTS - and sent to Gitmo.

The very idea of a mosque near Ground Zero is not terrorist itself ???


How do the families of the victims themselves feel???


Why should old wounds be re-opened ???

This issue proves just how little judgement Obama has - and what a poor leader he is.

Obama's loyalties are with the muslim world - NOT with America.


To make that statement, do we need anything more than Obama's comments last night to prove it ???

Obama is tanking the Afghan War - purposely broadcasting to the enemy a pull-out date. Obama wants to lose the Afghan War by saying we are leaving next year.

The facts are the facts - Obama is a traitor to this nation.

.

Posted by: SummerDreams | August 14, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

If anyone needs a good laugh (or maybe a good scream) check out the comments section of the FireDogLake post on this topic. You really reach a point out at the fringes where it's hard to tell the difference between the left and right, unless you're close enough to read their T-shirts.

http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/08/14/obama-strongly-supports-construction-of-islamic-center-near-ground-zero/

Posted by: CalD | August 14, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

You should have waited 24hrs before printing this biased article. Obama just deep-sixed you. Our National disgrace NOW wants to recant his earlier remarks after his statement was greeted with a public condemnation. What a pitiful excuse for a man. The WH will have to be fumigated for weeks after the Obama's departure. Let's send him on an extended vacation to Siberia until after 2012. Greg Neubeck

Posted by: gneubeck | August 14, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Teleologicus comments, "It is all one big, horrible, ghastly, bloody mistake, one that began with the Prophet himself, who also did not understand the true teachings of Islam."

You humorous sarcasm is not lost upon this pagan American Indian girl, although you might lose your head for such words, and don't you dare take to drawing cartoons.

An interesting contrast is an American Indian cultural center would be welcomed near Ground Zero. I am sure of this. Those of us who are traditional Indians are pagan as you know; we do not believe in the Christian god. Nonetheless, we are certainly Americans and warmly welcomed here in America by all walks of people.

This is a classic display of religious tolerance by Americans, even for those who do not subscribe to Christianity.

This mosque issue is not a question religious freedom rather is a question of showing respect for thousands who lost their lives and millions who feel pain in their hearts because of this abhorrent attack upon innocents in the name of God.

A vast majority of Americans do not want this mosque to be build where proposed; the location is the only objection. We Americans both expect and demand Muslims display respect for our dead, for our family survivors and for Americans at large. Ground Zero immortalizes thousands and embodies our very American spirit.

In lieu of Muslims respecting our American way of life, Muslims will never be welcomed here in our nation.

My peoples are welcomed here in America for many reasons, but above all my peoples are welcomed because we respect our nation and we love our nation. We are Americans, true red blooded Americans.

Muslims have yet to earn a right to truthfully claim to be Americans. Earning this right, like earning a living, is an expectation of our American peoples.

This issue has nothing to do with religious tolerance, this issue has everything to do with living up to our traditional American values.

Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation

Posted by: PurlGurl | August 14, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

TELEOLOGICUS:

You wrote (in satire): "All of the wars of conquest and imperialism of Muslims against the West for over one thousand years were based upon a completely mistaken understanding of the true tenets of Islam"

Yes, that's true, just as the wars of Christians against all were equally mistaken. Just as the wars of extermination fought by the ancient Israelites were mistaken. Religion is the excuse, no matter what the paricular sect is.

Posted by: 54465446
==========================

You are comparing the teachings of Christianity to those of Islam in regard to war and violence? And the claim is also that Christianity has waged holy war against infidels just like Islam? That there is no essential difference?

I'll have to leave the ancient Israelites and their wars of extermination to fend for themselves on this thread. They were, after all, pretty ancient - so much so that they had stopped doing stuff like that for about a thousand years before the Prophet came along.

If we are going to make the usual politically correct comparisons between the evils perpetrated in the names of BOTH Christianity and Islam, and thereby to assert a sort of moral-theological-historical equivalence between them as is usually alleged or implied, why not start at the beginning by comparing the actual lives and direct teachings of their respective founders?

Why not compare the life and direct teaching of Jesus of Nazareth, with the life and direct teaching of Mohammed? Wouldn't that be a sensible way to compare and contrast the religions?

Of course I realize what every schoolchild knows, that the Crusades starting in the 11th century C.E. were terrible crimes against Muslims. What I can't seem to figure out is what Muslims were doing in the Holy Land to begin with, how they happened to be there to get wrongly crusaded against. Do you have any information on this score?

I have also been searching for information as to how Muslims wound up, in all places, in Spain, where they were living peacefully and building the wonderful world of Al-Andalus. I mean, Islam began in Arabia, and Spain is a long, long way away from there.

How did Muslims make it all the way to Spain? Does anyone know?

Posted by: Teleologicus | August 14, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Ochlocracy in America: 70% oppose building a mosque near ground zero.

Democracy in America: 62% recognize the right of the property owners (or owners under contract) to build what is allowed by law.

You choose your system of government. I choose democracy.

Posted by: -tao- | August 14, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Ochlocracy in America: 70% oppose building a mosque near ground zero.

Democracy in America: 62% recognize the right of the property owners (or owners under contract) to build what is allowed by law.

You choose your system of government. I choose democracy.
__________________________________________

Good Grief. Nobody is arguing the government should stop them from building the mosque. People are just pointing out that if the mosque is about promoting tolerance and understanding, building it that close to Ground Zero is a funny way of going about it.

Posted by: sold2u | August 14, 2010 4:38 PM | Report abuse

I would have to suppose that Obama called Bill Clinton this morning - and they came up with this little jem :


“I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there. I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding,” he said.

____________________________________


Except that when Obama says something, and then tries to walk back from it, Obama usually tries to do it anyway - without telling anyone.

Obama and Bill Clinton - discussing ways to lie to people -


Priceless but probably true.

.

Posted by: SummerDreams | August 14, 2010 4:38 PM | Report abuse

"sold2u: Good Grief. Nobody is arguing the government should stop them from building the mosque. People are just pointing out that if the mosque is about promoting tolerance and understanding, building it that close to Ground Zero is a funny way of going about it."


----------------------

Excellent post: that sums it up.

Posted by: timr1 | August 14, 2010 4:41 PM | Report abuse

Contrast Greg's slobber with today's Obama backwards moonwalk:

"Obama Says Mosque Upholds Principle of Equal Treatment

By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
PANAMA CITY, Fla. — President Obama said on Saturday that in defending the right of Muslims to build a community center and mosque near Ground Zero he “was not commenting” on “the wisdom” of that particular project, but rather trying to uphold the broader principle that government should treat “everyone equal, regardless” of religion.

...White House officials said earlier in the day that Mr. Obama was not trying to promote the project, but rather sought more broadly to make a statement about freedom of religion and American values. “In this country we treat everybody equally and in accordance with the law, regardless of race, regardless of religion,” Mr. Obama said at the Coast Guard station. “I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there. I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding. That’s what our country is about.

“And I think it’s very important as difficult as some of these issues are that we stay focused on who we are as a people and what our values are all about.”

Posted by: clarice2 | August 14, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

@PacificEnv:

You write: "So, the leftists who routinely attack, denigrate, assault and lie about Christianity and Judaism, are now bravely standing up for Islam. What an incredible bunch of hypocrites you are. You guys would call for a monument to Nazism as an example of "tolerance." And to claim that you are standing up for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights? Where in the Bill of Rights do you have the right to build anything anywhere? Have you never heard of Zoning?"

First of all, there are many, many Christians and Jews in this country who happen to believe Obama is right about this. Second, by bringing up zoning laws, you demonstrate exactly how ignorant you are of the facts surrounding this project. The project IS IN FULL COMPLIANCE WITH ALL ZONING LAWS. IT DIDN'T REQUIRE ANY KIND OF VARIANCE. GET IT?

This is not just a matter of freedom of religion; it is also about the 14th Amendment's guarantee of equal protection of the laws. Zoning laws, like all laws in this country, must be enforced equally towards everyone. To prevent construction of the cultural center, you would have to retroactively change zoning laws. And no court in the country will uphold a zoning "law" that treats one group any differently from another.

Posted by: markpkessinger | August 14, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

The fair compromise is for the mosque to be built in Brooklyn - where no one would care.

If that is not accepted, the proponents of the mosque should be sent to GITMO.


.

Posted by: SummerDreams | August 14, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

I agree: muslims do have the right to build a mosque in lower Manhattan.

What I don't understand is... why does the U.S. deny muslims the right to build a nuclear plant in Iran?

Posted by: jdsolano | August 14, 2010 4:47 PM | Report abuse

markpkessinger

This is not a question of zoning.

It is a question of whether it is OFFENSIVE to Americans or not.

It is offensive - and so are your comments.

Posted by: SummerDreams | August 14, 2010 4:48 PM | Report abuse


The author says: "Obama's core declaration here is as simple and clear a statement about what's really at stake in this fight as one could have asked for."

Less than 24 hours after Obama made this simple and clear statement, he is now back-pedaling, saying he wasn't talking about THIS PARTICULAR mosque in lower Manhattan, just mosques in Lower Manhattan generally.

So, what was once "clear in this fight" is now muddied beyond recognition. Another weasel moment in the Presidency of Barrack Obama. More to follow.

Posted by: RossOdom | August 14, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

The Presidents supporters can spin the issue anyway they like. Its the location I repeat "its the location" that is the issue.

I CAN'T WAIT FOR NOVEMBER!!!!

Maybe POTUS will listen then.

From a Hispanic Republican

Posted by: vicgilroy | August 14, 2010 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Apparently, the President was already busy today watering down what he said yesterday on this subject. Yes, there is no doubt that Obama's statements will please the GOP but this is irrelevant.

Clearly, an overwhelming majority of Americans correctly understand that an Islamic Center intended to bring people together would not be stridently required to be built in this exact location and in fact should be built elsewhere. It's obvious to anyone with any measure of common sense.

America does not need to use this hallowed ground to "sell" our respect for religious freedom. As the President noted, mosques already exist in all 50 states and more are being built regularly.

Do the supporters of this "in your face" mosque believe that 9/11 occurred because of an erroneous perception of a lack of "religious freedom" in the United States?

Religious freedom has absolutely nothing to do with the aggressive rush to promote Islam at Ground Zero. It's an insult to common sense and human decency to suggest that it does.

Build the mosque elsewhere - period.

Posted by: TomMiller1 | August 14, 2010 4:52 PM | Report abuse

One has to be seriously deluded to believe that the muslim religion and the muslim frenzied mosque building strategy in every christian democratic countries is not without dangers. When you think that christians are persecuted throughout islam it takes a serious dose of blinded liberalism, a liberalism that helps facism, to support a project such as the one Obama backed today in the name of "freedom of religion". This unconditional support is what is un-american. Islam wants to destroy christianity, it wants to destroy America. Islam is an ideology that enslaves women and should be treated as suspicious by every sound minded american.

Posted by: JlFrench | August 14, 2010 4:53 PM | Report abuse

markpkessinger comments, "And no court in the country will uphold a zoning 'law' that treats one group any differently from another."

Uh oh... liquor stores, adult book stores, strip bars, medical marijuana dispensaries, dairies, farms, industry and our family's favorite, nudist resorts.

Well gosh, our family enjoys nudism. What are the changes we could build a nudist resort near the New York Stock Exchange?

This would certainly have cubicle workers fight over who gets to use the telescope next!

Your "zoning law" notion falls apart as quickly as our family's clothes fall off at our favorite nudist resort.

Why are we treated differently? Zoning laws?

Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation

Posted by: PurlGurl | August 14, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

If you read this entire thread you will see that people have been espousing ochlocracy by demanding constitutional amendments, impeachment, a redefinition of treason and other acts subversive to the rule of law under the guise of law. That is ochlocracy.

That a 70:62 majority hold conflicting opinions - cultural and legal - indicates a lack of understanding about the dangers of tyranny by the majority and a slippery slope mindset that may be easily exploited and manipulated by insurgent political ideology (the Tea Party, for example).

I choose to believe that the democratic rule of law should, and will prevail. The laws protects us all.

Posted by: -tao- | August 14, 2010 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Here's some tips for those who wish to protect America from the Muslims...

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/responses.htm

Posted by: bernielatham | August 14, 2010 4:57 PM | Report abuse

I guess, this is the second "finest moment in the Obama presidency " then, Greg:

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/politics/2010/08/14/int.henry.obama.cnn

Posted by: clarice2 | August 14, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

This is a question of showing respect for the victims of an attack on our country.


If you can not see that, one has to question whether you are a real American or not.


.

Posted by: SummerDreams | August 14, 2010 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Did the rest of the JournOlisters run with this theme today? Or are they sticking with defending the mosque and not pinning their faded reputations on Obama's" principled stand"?

Posted by: clarice2 | August 14, 2010 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Unexpected, but very welcome. FOX hosts agree that Obama, as President, must stand up for religious liberty...
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/08/14/peter-king-gz-mosques/

Posted by: bernielatham | August 14, 2010 5:12 PM | Report abuse

I'm not a Liberal or a political supporter of Mr. Obama, but I think he's handling the issue well. The Mosque builders are clearly within their rights to build a mosque there, but they are also big jerks for doing so. I have the freedom of action to say that, because I'm not President.

Mr. Obama is the President, and "these guys are big jerks" is something he really can't say. So he said the next best thing, which is "no comment of whether it's a good idea".

I think he's handling it well.

.

Posted by: ZZim | August 14, 2010 5:14 PM | Report abuse

The issue of the Cordoba Center has struck a raw nerve in many people. The unscrupulous are using this to stir up a general sense of hatred against muslims. Why would they do this?

Posted by: mmurray2 | August 14, 2010 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Nicely done, bernielatham. The horrific demonizing of any race, religion or nation-state is a good object lesson that people in every free and democratic society should learn. Thank you for that link.

Posted by: -tao- | August 14, 2010 5:19 PM | Report abuse

If BHO says all religions must be treated equally, how come muslims are excempt from Obamacare? Yes, it is true. Muslims will not be fined for not getting health insurance under Obamacare.

Posted by: johnjrmbo29 | August 14, 2010 5:19 PM | Report abuse

I often wondered how "good" people could take part in a lynching, but now having read the vast majority of the conservative postings I understand. The mob screams for blood and the GOP rides the hate wave to victory but it may be a picric victory and once the hate simmers down a bit, one is going to rue the day that we let fear-mongers control our destiny. The conservatives who spew their hate online are a much more tangible threat to the USA than any number of long bearded Islamic fanatics. Given the chance they would gladly go back to segregation, limit all immigration to Western Europe and use our public schools as their misguided pulpits. God save us from the conservatives because the American people are seemingly too stupid to do so on their own.

Posted by: hansenthered | August 14, 2010 5:20 PM | Report abuse

I do not believe Islam should fall under Freedom of Religion. Islam is a political and a legal system. Religion is just used as the excuse for the primitive, cruel, Sharia law and the quest for world domination by the followers and leaders of Islam. If the Nazi's had called their movement a religion, would we have allowed them to build centers all over the USA? The real top leaders of Islam want to destroy Israel, destroy the American way of life, and take away our freedom. Obama was raised in the Islamic faith and will always defend even the pro-terrorist leaders of Islam. I fully expected him to choose to support them over the free American people. After all, he and Hillary Clinton have dispatched the radical imam leading the effort to build the mosque near ground zero to the Middle East to represent the USA. We tax payers are paying for the imam's fund raising trip because Obama and Hillary Clinton support him. Obama entertained a top PLO leader at the White House in the last two days.

Posted by: good_angel | August 14, 2010 5:25 PM | Report abuse

make that a Pyrrhic victory...though it may be indeed bitter.

Posted by: hansenthered | August 14, 2010 5:32 PM | Report abuse

The issue of the Cordoba Center has struck a raw nerve in many people. The unscrupulous are using this to stir up a general sense of hatred against muslims. Why would they do this?

Posted by: mmurray2

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The mullahs are stirring up hatred because they want to create a sense of persecution and victimization within their own community so that they will draw closer together and turn to these same mullahs for leadership.

Posted by: ZZim | August 14, 2010 5:33 PM | Report abuse

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/responses.htm

for good-angel

Posted by: -tao- | August 14, 2010 5:33 PM | Report abuse

A tree is known of it's fruit.
Sour fruit can not be sold
as sweet, taste contradicts.

Posted by: BluePelican | August 14, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

@good_angel

"Contemporary press accounts indicate that Rauf and [Karen] Hughes were part of the February 2006 U.S.-Islamic World Forum in Doha, Qatar. He was part of a delegation that met with her in March 2006 and held a joint press conference. A letter to then-Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in November 2007 indicates that contacts with Hughes and Under Secretary for Political Affairs Nicholas Burns had continued apace."
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/08/ground_zero_mosque_imam_bush_partner_for_peace.php

Karen Hughes - Muslim sympathizer.

Posted by: bernielatham | August 14, 2010 5:38 PM | Report abuse

I for one, look forward to President Obama's "forceful speech...expressing strong support" for the Aryan Brotherhood's desire build "cultural and religious centers" next to the Holocaust Museum and the Murrah Building, Fred Phelps desire to build "religious and cultural centers" near the "Stonewall Inn" and "Arlington National Cemetery", and Operation Rescue's desire to build "religious and cultural centers" next to every Planned Parenthood location.

Posted by: ucfengr_2000 | August 14, 2010 5:39 PM | Report abuse

This started out as a purchase of real property which the buyers hoped to convert to condos. When the market turned down the buyers had a bright idea of turning it into a huge mosque , hoping to collect lots of money from Moslems to do it. Actually they only own half the bldg and will need to raise about $100 million (before overruns) to construct the mosque.

Does anyone in his right mind--and I realize a lot of you are regular Post readers and therefore don't meet the criteria--think they will raise it?

Posted by: clarice2 | August 14, 2010 5:42 PM | Report abuse

Make lemonade, bluepelican

Posted by: -tao- | August 14, 2010 5:42 PM | Report abuse

The thing about moments, even finest moments, is that they don't last very long. The New York Times headline on the story covering the president's speech at yesterday's White House dinner marking the start of Ramadan was "Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site." The headline on the story about the president's remarks today during a visit to the Gulf Coast is "Obama Says Mosque Remarks Were Not Endorsement." According to the more recent story, Mr. Obama said that in yesterday's speech he "was 'not commenting on the wisdom' of [building the Cordoba House so close to the World Trade Center site], but rather trying to uphold the broader principle that government should treat 'everyone equal, regardless' of religion."

What do you think, Mr. Sargent? Does that qualify as a "clever little dodge"?

Posted by: dufffy98 | August 14, 2010 5:43 PM | Report abuse

I came here to gloat about Obama's about face ( http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41069.htm l) but the outright idiocy of some of the comments here need to be addressed, individually.

schrodingerscat: How is it moral to endorse a monument to victory over America for no other reason than to remain ideologically consistent with dogmatic multiculturalism?

lmsinca: Building bridges mandates that people on the other side cease burning what you build every time you get close.

sgwhiteinfla: If more than half the people in America agree with Ms. Geller, how does that make her an extremist?

michael_conrad: I too long to see Obama show some backbone, because it will only damage Democrats even further. When Democrats behave like Democrats, they lose elections.

msh4: You mean most of America? Insulting a majority of Americans is no way to win friends and influence people.

KevinShinn: What possible constitutional implications can the location of a particular facility invoke? This isn't about the legality, it's about appropriateness. You don't build a Confederate monument in Harlem!

landfall23: It only took 24 hours.

david48: Why do you assert that extremism is only a small part of Islam when at the same time you condemn a majority of Americans who disagree with you. Check those polls, even greater percentages of Muslims approve of the 9/11 attacks than Americans who oppose this atrocity on sacred ground.

bernielatham: Straw man. No one is banning mosques in New York, and Jews never did anything close to what Muslims did on 9/11. Again you are equating religions and cultures where such equivocation is improper, all in the name of maintaining consistency with multiculturalist dogma.

Liam-still: Multiculturalism demands we view all cultures equally. That's an absurd viewpoint. Why does Islam deserve equal consideration with other religions when it is Islam which is the heart of just about every act of terrorism on the planet?

Posted by: TheLastBrainLeft | August 14, 2010 5:44 PM | Report abuse

If this Wash. Post reporter calls himself "The Plum Line," and thinks Obama has done the politically right thing here, let me suggest the Wash. Post needs a new political reporter ASAP.

BO just committed national suicide, apparently for no good reason. He's crazy; he just lost the House for sure. He has no instinct for his job at all.

Posted by: jcsanford1 | August 14, 2010 5:48 PM | Report abuse

does anyone think "I'm not commenting on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there" means "don't do it"?

Posted by: sold2u | August 14, 2010 5:54 PM | Report abuse

If this Wash. Post reporter calls himself "The Plum Line," and thinks Obama has done the politically right thing here, let me suggest the Wash. Post needs a new political reporter ASAP.

Posted by: jcsanford1

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I think Mr. Obama handled it well.

Your criticism is misplaced.

.

Posted by: ZZim | August 14, 2010 5:55 PM | Report abuse

I seriously doubt that many Americans would care about locations of mosques in our towns, cities or villages. I do think that Americans have sensibilities about them as to where such places of worship are located.

In all candor, think that there were few sensibilities on the part of Muslims even considering the location in question. WHY WOULD THEY CHOOSE A SITE, SO CLOSE TO THE MURDERING OF THOUSANDS OF INNOCENTS, AT THE HANDS OF RADICAL MEMBERS OF THEIR FAITH??

President Obama’s statement was astonishing – absolutely astonishing!
The big question I have is why is he so ANTI AMERICAN? It gave him a great life!! Look at where he is, vice his brother in Kenya, or his aunt living in subsidized housing in Boston!! He comes across so unappreciative and egotistically loquacious!

WHAT WAS HE THINKING??

He is getting to the point where he points out to us on a daily basis what a tragic mistake we made in November 2008. The democratic congress – though some are honorable people – needs to be replaced in 2010 simply to realign the BALANCE OF POWER.

Posted by: wheeljc | August 14, 2010 5:56 PM | Report abuse

Bernie:

"A veritable parade of bigotry and race hatred. I don't think I've seen the like of this since and anti-Jew pogroms."

You saw anti-Jew pogroms? Where? When?

Posted by: ScottC3 | August 14, 2010 5:56 PM | Report abuse

It is easy to accuse objectors to the "mosque saga" of "hatred" (another word that has lost all meaning since hijacked by the politically correct brigades). Do you want to witness real blood-curdling hatred? Go to any muslim country and try to build a christian church there and see what happens. Actually don't because you might not survive the experience. Also many "tolerant and peace-loving" american muslims who are so quick to demand their "right" to build a place of worship in the USA would not necessarily extend the same right to christians in their country of origin where promoting christianity is often banned. Wake up all of you!!!

Posted by: JlFrench | August 14, 2010 5:57 PM | Report abuse

His finest moment will be in two years when he leaves.
What are the odds he or any member of his family will actually even get in the water while they are there, in Florida, for the photo op? Or even eat the supposedly clean sea food? Again about 0. Some change ugh?

Posted by: KBlit | August 14, 2010 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Well, Obama did a couple members of his party a favor --

* Charlie Rangel

&

* Maxine Waters

He flat took the heat off of them today. Even Obama's staunch supporters are scratching their heads and asking: "WHAT WAS HE THINKING?"

Posted by: wheeljc | August 14, 2010 6:00 PM | Report abuse

Today Obama himself set everybody straight by WAFFLING on what he said earlier about that mosque.

His argument is that he was speaking in generalities, not of the wisdom of putting a mosque butt up against 911 hallowed ground.

So, he was for it before he was against it.

Whadda' mensch!

Posted by: muawiyah | August 14, 2010 6:03 PM | Report abuse

the american taliban commenters here show us what we will get if we let the frightwing republicans back in power. they have not moderated in their time out of power but have grown more extreme. the opponents of the center are bigoted, ignorant, nativist know nothings.

what about the extremist christianists who murder doctors? should we blame all christians by the actions of the christian terrorists? should we ban all churches near hospitals because of them?


Posted by: blahgblogwordpresscom | August 14, 2010 6:04 PM | Report abuse

@mua

how is that a walk back? he's affirming the general principle independent of a specific instance. that is, the specifics do not override the fundamental core principle that they have a right to build it. and of course, no one is infringing on anyone's right to speak out against it.

Posted by: blahgblogwordpresscom | August 14, 2010 6:09 PM | Report abuse

blahgblogwordpresscom: what about the extremist christianists who murder doctors? should we blame all christians by the actions of the christian terrorists? should we ban all churches near hospitals because of them?
____________________________________________

Has the Pope come out in favor of murdering abortion doctors?

Do Catholic elementary schools teach small arms training and tell kids that murdering non-believers is a ticket straight to Heaven?

Did Tim McVeigh commit his act in the name of religion?

Is there a group of Catholics who donate money to the families of abortion bombers?

Posted by: sold2u | August 14, 2010 6:12 PM | Report abuse

The father of the Nation has spoken... Oh please. The oratorical fireworks, hurray, now back to help wanted classified.

Posted by: Silly_Willy_Bulldog | August 14, 2010 6:12 PM | Report abuse

I agree: muslims do have the right to build a mosque in lower Manhattan.

What I don't understand is... why does the U.S. deny muslims the right to build a nuclear plant in Iran?

---------------------

Excellent post up there Jsoldano!

Posted by: Lubf | August 14, 2010 6:13 PM | Report abuse

dufffy98 comments, "What do you think, Mr. Sargent? Does that qualify as a 'clever little dodge'?"

Ha! Ha! Obama behaved Cambridge "stupidly".

Those of our left liberal "lamestream" media, thank you Sarah, never have and never will think nor write beyond a depth of a child's shallow pool. Those self-proclaimed journalists like Greg Sargent cannot see higher than those boots of Obama they are licking.

jcsanford1 adds, "BO just committed national suicide"

I am wondering how many times Obama will commit political suicide before he becomes aware he is a lame duck president before his time.

If Sargent and others of our lamestream media would get up off their knees before Obama, look around, they might just smarten up a little, just a little.

Over in my blog, I will be spinning this as Obama patronizing Muslims then speaking out the other side of his mouth to Americans.

Obama insults my intelligence. Obama assumes all peoples, especially Americans, to be ignorant gits who are easily fooled. Obama's arrogance is loathsome. This is very clear, least to those of us with a Limbaugh half a brain tied behind our backs, last night's Obama moralistic speech making is simply a political ploy for whatever lame reasoning in his mind, a type of reasoning I cannot wrap my mind around.

Obama is so duplicitous! Muslims should be angered by Obama using them for a political soap box and using them for a photo opportunity. Americans should be more angered by Obama continuing to lie to us, continuing to treat us like gullible ignorant gits. "I didn't say that! What I said is...."

"It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

I sure would like to have an American president who talks straight and shoots from the hip. Sarah, darling, we love you.

There is never a viable substitute for truth, and Obama is not a viable substitute for a president.

Obama and democrats will painfully learn of truth come November elections, as will Greg Sargent of our left liberal socialist lamestream media.

Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation

Posted by: PurlGurl | August 14, 2010 6:15 PM | Report abuse

Is there something in the American Constitution for those muslims who want to convert to christianity but are condemned to death by islam if they do so? Just a thought.

Posted by: JlFrench | August 14, 2010 6:18 PM | Report abuse

I guess welcoming and respecting (wtf, really?) the intent to build this cultural center trumps respecting 9/11 victims families that are now being trampled on by this grotesque display.. yeah, justify how the in-your-face decision to plow this thing through is moral in any way shape or form douchbag.

Posted by: jleibund1 | August 14, 2010 6:23 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps we can get the BP engineers to plug this raging sewer leak?

Posted by: bernielatham | August 14, 2010 6:34 PM | Report abuse

Greg Sargent (and many of you)say this is Obama's finest moment.

Think about it--You say that supporting a building that 80% of Americans say should be built somewhere else is his finest moment???

He sure must not of done anything the first year and a half of his presidency if this is what he is going to go down for to be great.

Posted by: jayvan1 | August 14, 2010 6:37 PM | Report abuse

Is there something in the American Constitution for those muslims who want to convert to christianity but are condemned to death by islam if they do so? Just a thought.
=======================

Religious assassinations for apostasy are a traditional part of Islamic culture dating back to the time of the Prophet and have been practiced continuously by Muslims against other Muslims for about 1,500 years. They are as Islamic as whatever would be the equivalent of apple pie for Americans. One sometimes wonders if Islam does not get a bum rap because the only people Muslims murder in its name seem to be non-Muslims. This is far from being the case. Muslims have been murdering other Muslims in the name of Islam since the time of the Prophet and have never stopped. They are still doing it whenever and wherever they think it is necessary and where they can get away with it.

This kind of thing poses a dilemma for politically correct Western multiculturalism. True, such religious assassinations are an integral part of Islam, at least according to those who advocate them. But there is a certain awkwardness at this point when trying to reconcile Islam with Western values.

It may, of course, be true that Western politically multiculturalists understand Islam better than such Assassins, and that murdering apostates in the name of Islam is a misunderstanding of the true teachings of Islam, teachings that Western multiculturalists assure us not only do not condone but positively forbid such things.

Of course it is against the law to murder someone in Western societies, even for valid religious reasons such as apostasy from Islam. This means that a Muslim in a Western country who murders an apostate in obedience to Islam risks being prosecuted and convicted if apprehended, something that clearly violates the principle of multiculturalism and the freedom to practice religion without interference by the state.

Possibly some special provision might be made in the law for assassinations performed in accordance with Islam by believing Muslims against those proved to be apostates from the faith. Sharia courts could be designated to review such things and decide questions of guilt or innocence according to Islamic law and tradition.

Posted by: Teleologicus | August 14, 2010 6:37 PM | Report abuse

@Posted by: sold2u | August 14, 2010 6:12 PM

well, actually the christianist terrorists who have killed abortion doctors have been protestant, not catholic, so i don't know why you're focusing exclusively on catholicism. of course, catholicism, along with other sects, has had the pedophile problem. so maybe no churches near schools as well as the ban on them near hospitals.

other than that, what is the point of your questions? are you denying the abortion doctor murdering christianist terrorists were acting in the name of religion?

Posted by: blahgblogwordpresscom | August 14, 2010 6:38 PM | Report abuse

To the more thoughtful participants...

One of the unmentioned (so far as I've read) quotes from Gingrich in the recent Esquire profile...

And at least three times, I heard him make the same crack about President Obama's athletic abilities. First it was with a group of small businessmen: "The more angry we get, the worse it is for Obama. I don't care how many three-point jump shots he makes."

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/marianne-gingrich-behind-the-scenes-081010#ixzz0wcfCp0LS

The important bit in there is "angry". That's a big part of why we're witnessing here what we are witnessing.

Posted by: bernielatham | August 14, 2010 6:46 PM | Report abuse

Just to show how much I disagree with the Post's position, let me share this, which went out to the President today:

An open letter to the President of the United States:


Dear Mr. Sotero:

I have been beset of late by right-wing extremists determined to convince me that you are the puppet of a vast conspiracy to destroy the United States and establish a new world order. I am here to tell you that I don't believe it. Not for one second. If there were such a conspiracy, which I frankly doubt, it would never employ such a cretin as a front man.

Endorsement of the mosque at Ground Zero? What in the name of all that is holy to any religion were you thinking?

However unfortunate it is for the country, you are the President of the United States, for godsake -- and, speaking from that exalted office, you have gratuitously insulted the memory of every single soul who died in what was only the second foreign attack to reach American soil since the Mexican War. You have insulted their friends, their families. For that matter, you have insulted every American, in or out of uniform, who has died as a result of enemy action over the last 235 years.

You want to talk about a day that will live in infamy? With yesterday's speech, you have created such a day in the name of your own ego. Your idiotic statement wasn't even remotely good politics. It will come back to haunt any liberal unlucky enough to be identified with your regime.

Since you assumed office, Americans have been victimized by incredible fiscal irresponsibility and criminally lax immigration control. They have been embarrassed by your repeated insults to our allies, winced at a foreign policy that flatters the country's enemies, watched you literally bow to those same enemies, and been horrified by a health care program that amounts to the premeditated murder of any whose lives statistically are not worth saving. All of this has been enough to guarantee a sea-change in government over the next two federal elections. But, with this most recent absurdity, you may have cut your own political throat.

The idea of a mosque at ground zero is a bad joke. You, too, Mr. President, are a joke -- only nobody is laughing.

Sincerely,

Karen Elizabeth Bush
(Daughter of a World War I veteran,
Great-granddaughter of a Civil War veteran,
Great-great granddaughter of a Revolutionary War veteran)

Posted by: Rochester_Writer | August 14, 2010 6:48 PM | Report abuse

The Cordoba house is named after a victory Mosque on purpose. The dedication date of the "Cordoba house" is 11 September 2011, the aniverary of the attack by muslem terrorist.

All this was done on purpose. It will be the final mosque visited by countless future muslem terrorist before they make their attack on America.

This is not about freedome of relegion..... It is about National Security and playing into the hands of the Barbary Pirates once again.

Posted by: markandbeth92 | August 14, 2010 6:51 PM | Report abuse

Poor Greg Sargent. Obama's "clarification" today kind of left you with your backside hanging out. Obama told us he would bring change, and sure enough, just between Friday night and Saturday morning, he managed to change his position. Greg, be brave, I'm sure you'll find a way to spin this so you and Obama don't look ridiculous.

Posted by: Rob_ | August 14, 2010 6:54 PM | Report abuse

@blahgblogwordpresscom: are you denying the abortion doctor murdering christianist terrorists were acting in the name of religion?
________________________________________

No, but I am denying that there is an institutional aspect to religious violence on the part of Christianity. Catholic schools are nothing similar to madrassas, of which many exist simply to produce martyrs. There are no Catholic charities who provide for the families of abortion clinic bombers the way Islamic charities provide for the families of suicide bombers. No priests give sermons charging their parishioners to die in the defense of Christianity.

Islam is a different animal, with its madrassas, its support of the families of suicide bombers, its imams who preach anti-western violence and its political wing.

Posted by: sold2u | August 14, 2010 6:54 PM | Report abuse

If this was "his finest moment," I suppose we've been right about just how incredibly bad he's been on everything else.
This guy's judgment is warped. More and more Americans are coming to that realization each day.

Posted by: parkbench | August 14, 2010 6:57 PM | Report abuse

So, I guess this means that the left is going to now get behind Nativity scenes in town squares at Christmastime, and prayers at school graduations and sporting events. It's all about First Amendment freedom isn't it?

For decades, we have been hearing from the left that it is justifiable to forbid Nativity scenes because they are offensive to some citizens. Even crosses on private lands have been the object of law suits because they are "offensive to some." We have been hammered and sued into surrendering any public signs of faith. But now, we are told that a mosque near Ground Zero must be allowed despite the fact that it is blatantly offensive to so many of us.

Be careful. You just might be rolling back thirty years of efforts by the ACLU.

Posted by: CABarb | August 14, 2010 7:01 PM | Report abuse

I suggest you read the Establishment Clause of the Constitution. It's unambiguous. How close is too close for a mosque? Two blocks? Six blocks? Ten miles? Didn't the city commission hold public hearings and vote unanimously on this issue?

There is a mosque at the Pentagon, another building that was hit on 9/11. Should that be closed? Also, if Ground Zero is sacred, why are we building another office building ON TOP OF it? Why is there a Burger King there?

Our diversity is our strength in this country. I am a white, male, married Christian who is fed up with the collective ignorance of the right wing.

Posted by: SilverSpring8 | August 14, 2010 7:02 PM | Report abuse

TELEOLOGICUS:

You wrote: "You are comparing the teachings of Christianity to those of Islam in regard to war and violence? And the claim is also that Christianity has waged holy war against infidels just like Islam? That there is no essential difference?"

Yes, when it comes to the waging of war, there is no difference. In fact, as you are probably aware, when the Crusaders took Jerusalem the first thing they did was to indiscriminately slaughter the non-Christian population of all ages. Your knowledge of history is limited, either willfuly or through ignorance. Slaughter with a religious veneer is a well established practice of humanity. Why pretend otherwise? To your question about what were the Muslims doing in the Holy Land in the first place, I would say the same thing Spaniards were doing in Mexico, Central and South America, conquest with religious drapery.

Why is this important now?

Posted by: 54465446 | August 14, 2010 7:07 PM | Report abuse

The American Presidency

I was born and raised in the United States of America. As a common man I have always sought to compliment and build this great nation of ours with common sense and wisdom. This America in which I live has a document I revere called the Constitution that is admired by freedom loving people everywhere. This nation is known for combating tyranny and oppression wherever they are found both here and abroad. We are a nation of immigrants and still subscribe to the words of Emma Lazarus found on the statue of liberty, Give me your tired your poor your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teaming shore, send these the hopeless tempest tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

This is a land that respects families and all faiths including the right of individuals to worship according to the dictates of their hearts. I hold out that promise for one and all but the building of a mosque this close to the former world trade center I will never support. Certainly there are alternative sights in New York City that can both accommodate this mosque and also memorialize those Muslims who lost their lives while working in the World Trade Center.

My America is one that seeks to honor the constitution, reduce the interference of government through unwarranted regulations on small and large businesses, excessive taxation, nonsensical legislation, and a general preference for large intrusive federal government. The America I knew as a young man was one that respected American individualism and uniqueness.

I still believe in that America, complete with a future filled with jobs to replace those lost to our workers during this great recession. I envision a nation where parks, streets, towns are basically crime free. I still believe in the ability of every one to dream and plan for a new day where once again America will be known as striving for excellence and the very best in individual achievement.

Many voters today feel that foreign travel and prior political governmental experience are all vital for any candidate that would seek the presidency. Today I am once again perplexed in witnessing my country's deterioration at the hands of this administration who boast of such previous experience. In summary I would like to know what nation does Mr. Obama consider himself to be the President of, the United States or some foreign country comfortable with a strange set of warped socialistic ideals and legislative objectives, never before experienced by the American people?

This is a great nation with people who value traditional ideals based upon the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. This is America, it's time any President let the world know of his pride on having been named its leader.

Dr. Alan G. Phillips, Sr.


Posted by: ctw46 | August 14, 2010 7:10 PM | Report abuse

"How can someone enjoy looking at naked ladies while knowing that less than a block away, someone might be praying?"

I'll assume that's a rhetorical question.

Anyway, isn't it interesting that Obama finally gets a spine when talking about building a mosque in a place that is somewhat controversial, but will be built because it's already been approved by the local board?

I mean, he might grow a backbone when it comes to health care, jobs, the deficit, the constitution, ethics within his own administration, but no. Those are things that a backbone would be critical to the country. That would make people actually respect the man.

Instead, he picks a fight that ultimately has no meaning. I think Muslims will either improve their image and be embraced or be pushed further away from the mainstream with their own actions, Obama's support is largely irrelevant.

That's what people will ultimately remember, he grows a backbone for stuff that doesn't matter, the Mosque is going to get built regardless of what Obama says at this point so there was no political risk there. If he felt so strongly maybe he should have weighed in weeks ago when there was a real risk. Heck, Glen Beck said he was okay with the Mosque too.

He really makes you shake your head with his actions and words. Like he lives in some sort of alternate reality.

Posted by: Ombudsman1 | August 14, 2010 7:10 PM | Report abuse

Setting aside Islam's "right to build a mosque" wherever they damn well please, no matter how inappropriate or offensive, wtf is all the hatred of Christianity about. I mean, there's just no modern Christian equivalent to the 9/11 bombings, the London bombings, the Madrid bombings, the execution of women for adultery (not to mention the complete lack of woman's rights in Islam), the execution of homosexuals for, well, for being homosexual, honor killings, the maiming of criminals for relatively minor crimes (removal of hands and/or feet being fairly common), the execution of converts from Islam, the complete lack of religious freedom in many, if not most Islamic countries (I mean, seriously, if you think about it there really are no Christian countries like there are Islamic countries), etc. I just don't how "liberals" can look at Islam and find something worth defending and at the same time look at Christianity and, at best, find Christianity wanting.

Posted by: ucfengr_2000 | August 14, 2010 7:11 PM | Report abuse

SilverSpring8 wrote: Also, if Ground Zero is sacred, why are we building another office building ON TOP OF it? Why is there a Burger King there?

____________________________________________

If the Burger King hijacked a plane with Mayor McCheese and the Hamburgler, I would be against a fast food joint at Ground Zero too.

Posted by: sold2u | August 14, 2010 7:11 PM | Report abuse

The bigotry from the right on this is disgusting and saddening. I wish these wingnuts loved the Constitution half as much as they pretended to, and I wish they were ACTUAL PATRIOTS, not racist, bigoted ideologues.

As for those engaging in birtherism, "Obama-is-Muslim-OMG!!", etc. --- YOU ARE STUPID.

I'm proud of my President today, and I wish more Americans would BE AMERICANS and stop the hatred of fellow Americans, the Constitution, religious minorities, etc.

Posted by: SlimTyranny | August 14, 2010 7:12 PM | Report abuse

In article, "Obama's forceful speech yesterday expressing strong support for Cordoba House, which will go down as one of the finest moments of his presidency."

Mr Sargent, from this and your other islamophile PC jibberish, you give a new meaning to the term "useful idiot".

Posted by: jm125 | August 14, 2010 7:13 PM | Report abuse

Where was Obama's backbone when Mrs. Shirley Sherrod lost her USDA job? Her good name & reputation was ruined. He better get it together or Black people just may stay home in 2012.

Posted by: MsLou | August 14, 2010 7:13 PM | Report abuse

Greg Sargent, why so clueless? You're as clueless as Obama. Obama said muslims have the right to build a mosque near 911. NO ONE WAS QUESTIONING THAT. WE ALREADY KNEW IT. The essential issue was not LEGALITY, it was PROPRIETY. Surely it is legal for Poles of German descent to build a memorial in Poland for the valiant Germans who fought for their country in World War II. But is it proper to build one two blocks near Auschwitz?

If Obama is showing such spine and sensitivity towards the feelings of Muslim-Americans, should he not show at least equal spine and sensitivity towards the 3,000 dead who died at Ground Zero. What would they think? What do their families and loved ones think? If Obama is showing spine and sensitivity towards the feelings of a minority group like American Muslims, should he not at least show equal compassion and sensitivity towards the vast majority (70%) of Americans that believe this is wrong?

Greg, this will not go down as a great moment of the Obama presidency. This will go down as the moment he lost a second term. I had such high hopes. Now, I'm just waiting for 2012.

Posted by: waitingfor2012 | August 14, 2010 7:16 PM | Report abuse

ctw46:

Luckily for the rest of us, it is not YOUR America!

Posted by: 54465446 | August 14, 2010 7:21 PM | Report abuse

Obama must be the worst nightmare campaigning democrats have ever had. Keep up the good work, BO.

Posted by: EcoAZ1 | August 14, 2010 7:23 PM | Report abuse

Greg they can build anywhere they want but by building at ground zero they are insulting all the people of theis country. If any other religion was to fly planes into Mecca would they allow that religion to build anything on that site? There is right and wrong in the world and unfortunately agreat deal of people are turning their faces to that just to show how nice they are. It's no ;onger turning the other cheeck and let them slap you, they want to kill you.

Posted by: macci | August 14, 2010 7:23 PM | Report abuse

I wish more of these right wing lunatics took civics classes in high school (if they even went to high school). We need a more educated citizenry --- one that doesn't resort to bigotry, fear mongering and hate.

Also, I wish they'd stop getting their information from racists and legitimately crazy people like Pam "Obama is the secret Muslim son of Malcolm X" Geller. Seriously, buy a brain, right wing loonies.

Posted by: SlimTyranny | August 14, 2010 7:26 PM | Report abuse

Obama's presidential spine has developed some curvature based on the White House's weekend "clarifying remarks." One of his finest moments indeed - this is the very definition of back peddling in the face of criticism! This administration would be a first class joke if not for the severe damage it is doing to job creation by burdening businesses with unending regulation and expense. It's time for Obama to be reigned in - November elections cannot come fast enough.

Posted by: JM80 | August 14, 2010 7:26 PM | Report abuse

This president is revealed for what he is. An "it's America's fault" first apologist. It is obscene that he is in favor for a mosque to be built on hallowed ground. And the Imam has already said America was at fault for 9/11. The PC fools on this site that have posted support for the project just blow my mind. November can't come soon enough to put a brake on this radical's agenda. And then, 2012 ends the disastrous experiment of electing an inexperienced, America hating Progress as a president.

Posted by: rubydid | August 14, 2010 7:27 PM | Report abuse

Obama: I, BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, declare in all my infinite wisdom and might that a mosque must be built on the ground in which radical islam brought America to its knees.

Posted by: bmayhewbz@hotmail.com | August 14, 2010 7:28 PM | Report abuse

bernie: Perhaps we can get the BP engineers to plug this raging sewer leak?

Not enough concrete in the universe, I'm afraid. They'll go away soon. Tired, angry children eventually lay down and go to sleep.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | August 14, 2010 7:28 PM | Report abuse

HAHAHAHAHAHA God, the stupidity from the right wing is incredible!

JM80 thinks the Obama administration has crippled business with "unending regulation"!!!

I mean, the sheer stupidity of that comment exists on several levels. Just wow.

Posted by: SlimTyranny | August 14, 2010 7:29 PM | Report abuse

Hey, it's a local (NYC) issues. If those fools don't care about getting the finger, why should we.

Posted by: emurphy222000 | August 14, 2010 7:30 PM | Report abuse

Obama: I, BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, declare in all my infinite wisdom and might that a mosque must be built on the ground in which radical islam brought America to its knees.

Posted by: bmayhewbz@hotmail.com


Know what? This just make you look like a jackass.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | August 14, 2010 7:30 PM | Report abuse

It's funny, I remember some prominent folks on the left bemoaning that the 9/11 attack was on New York City, a liberal bastion, rather than some racist, homophobic, red state (Texas maybe). Now, apparently, New York City is the new home of racism and religious intolerance. Can a concealed carry law be far behind New Yorkers?

Posted by: ucfengr_2000 | August 14, 2010 7:31 PM | Report abuse

CTW46

You wrote: "My America is one that seeks to honor the constitution, reduce the interference of government through unwarranted regulations on small and large businesses, excessive taxation, nonsensical legislation, and a general preference for large intrusive federal government. The America I knew as a young man was one that respected American individualism and uniqueness."

Exactly how do you think that this nation " . . . is known for combating tyranny and oppression wherever they are found both here and abroad."? It is only through the "large intrusive Federal government" that you decry. The government that worked against American individualism in areas such as keeping slaves and treating workers as if they were slaves in company towns. Reading you is like Glenn Beck has created his perfect idea of an American!

Posted by: 54465446 | August 14, 2010 7:36 PM | Report abuse

This article is indicative of the below survey results:
http://people-press.org/report/606/trust-in-government

Obama is failing the US and the US liberal mainstream media continues to cover it up, as depicted in this article:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100050412/the-stunning-decline-of-barack-obama-10-key-reasons-why-the-obama-presidency-is-in-meltdown/

American People - seek the truth and do not rest until this socialist dictator is overthrown. 2012!

Posted by: bmayhewbz@hotmail.com | August 14, 2010 7:42 PM | Report abuse

ZIONIST CLOWN OBAMA NEEDS MORE GOOD IMAGE PUBLICATIONS BY SUPPORTING A MOSQUE NEAR 9/11 SITE TO PRESS ANOTHER RHITORICS AGAINST IRAN IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
Because, Recent Poll: Arab majority believes nuclear Iran helps Mideast
August 5, 2010

WASHINGTON (JTA) -- The percentage of Arabs who believe a nuclear-armed Iran will help the Middle East situation has doubled since last year.

The annual Brookings Institute poll, released Thursday, found that 57 percent of Arabs think a nuclear-armed Iran will cause a “more positive” situation in the Middle East, up from 29 percent last year.

Meanwhile, 63 percent of respondents were “discouraged” by the Obama administration’s Middle East policies. Last year, 51 percent of Arabs polled said they were “hopeful.”

Shibley Telhami, who conducted the poll, said the disappointment in the Obama administration is based on its handling of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Ynet reported. Just under half of respondents said Israel influences U.S. policy based on its own interests.

The survey was conducted between June 29 and July 30 in Egypt, Morocco, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates. Nearly 4,000 Arabs were questioned, with a 1.6 percent margin of error.

Telhami, of the University of Maryland and Brookings Saban Center for Middle East Policy, conducted the survey in conjunction with the Zogby Institute.

According to the poll, there has been no major shift in views about the Arab-Israeli conflict and its resolution.

OBAMA ALSO SHOULD SAY
Let me be clear: as a citizen, and as president, I believe thaT Iran has the same right to nuclear Technology as any country else in this world."

Posted by: clownsandliars1 | August 14, 2010 7:46 PM | Report abuse

ZIONIST CLOWN OBAMA NEEDS MORE GOOD IMAGE PUBLICATIONS BY SUPPORTING A MOSQUE NEAR 9/11 SITE TO PRESS ANOTHER RHITORICS AGAINST IRAN IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
Because, Recent Poll: Arab majority believes nuclear Iran helps Mideast
August 5, 2010

WASHINGTON (JTA) -- The percentage of Arabs who believe a nuclear-armed Iran will help the Middle East situation has doubled since last year.

The annual Brookings Institute poll, released Thursday, found that 57 percent of Arabs think a nuclear-armed Iran will cause a “more positive” situation in the Middle East, up from 29 percent last year.

Meanwhile, 63 percent of respondents were “discouraged” by the Obama administration’s Middle East policies. Last year, 51 percent of Arabs polled said they were “hopeful.”

Shibley Telhami, who conducted the poll, said the disappointment in the Obama administration is based on its handling of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Ynet reported. Just under half of respondents said Israel influences U.S. policy based on its own interests.

The survey was conducted between June 29 and July 30 in Egypt, Morocco, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates. Nearly 4,000 Arabs were questioned, with a 1.6 percent margin of error.

Telhami, of the University of Maryland and Brookings Saban Center for Middle East Policy, conducted the survey in conjunction with the Zogby Institute.

According to the poll, there has been no major shift in views about the Arab-Israeli conflict and its resolution.

OBAMA ALSO SHOULD SAY
Let me be clear: as a citizen, and as president, I believe thaT Iran has the same right to nuclear Technology as any country else in this world."

Posted by: clownsandliars1 | August 14, 2010 7:47 PM | Report abuse

Islam is a religion of peace. If you don't believe it, you must have your head sawed off with a pocket knife and your family stoned to death?

The only eye surgeon within a thousand mile of NW Afghanistan was killed by men who couldn't read in the name of this peaceful religion.

What's next?

Posted by: gen_coz | August 14, 2010 7:59 PM | Report abuse

Reading these comments, don't you see how many people are prejudiced against Islam? Who see all Muslims are evil terrorists? We need to speak out against this bigoted attitude, regardless of what you think about the mosque. This whole debate is full of ugliness and prejudice.

I think we should show respect for all the atheist victims' families who were killed in the name of religion and consider the building of any churches or synagogues near ground zero also immoral. Who's with me? Or is this just a Christians-hate-Muslims thing?

Posted by: yehadut | August 14, 2010 8:00 PM | Report abuse

This Mosque is a giant PR-adventure for its builders.

For the Politically correct, anti-American left in the USA, its a "cultural center" and the building will use "green building methods."

For the builder's main audience in the Mid-East, it is to blow there own horn - and show their prestige ie) "Look what we have achieved in the USA, at ground zero no less! Even more than Bin Laden has achieved!"

Posted by: pgr88 | August 14, 2010 8:05 PM | Report abuse

All, my take on Obama's walkback:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/08/did_obama_walk_back_his_suppor.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | August 14, 2010 8:17 PM | Report abuse


Obama shows more than 'right' for mosque, he shows downright approval for mosque!

Obama's slip is showing and 'we the people' are not amused.

Posted by: prossers7 | August 14, 2010 8:22 PM | Report abuse

he decline, fall, and destruction of obama

ProCounsel is certainly not a Prophet,not a religious leader, indeed ProCounsel is not even a very righteous person

but the Bible was written for the rest of us also

and obama is going down

by the Book

Consider that Obama mocked the Bible books of Deuteronomy and Leviticus by name. Obama’s speech is still on You-Tube. These books are in the Jewish part of the Bible, the Old Testament , which is also part of the Christian Bible.

Note that Obama has never even CRITICIZED the Koran, much less MOCKED it.

Deuteronomy 28, in the very book Obama mocked by name, pronounces specific curses:

15 However, if you do not obey the LORD your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come upon you and overtake you

team obama confusion and stupidity??

20 The LORD will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him


ineffective failed stimulus billions–unable to produce any jobs???


38 You will sow much seed in the field but you will harvest little, because locusts will devour it. 39 You will plant vineyards and cultivate them but you will not drink the wine or gather the grapes, because worms will eat them. 40 You will have olive trees throughout your country but you will not use the oil, because the olives will drop off.


foreign debt–loss of national sovereignty???

43 The alien who lives among you will rise above you higher and higher, but you will sink lower and lower. 44 He will lend to you, but you will not lend to him. He will be the head, but you will be the tail.

Posted by: ProCounsel | August 14, 2010 8:28 PM | Report abuse

you are a tool and a fool Sargent...you should be ashamed of your self....but you're not, you're too in love with yourself and your pseudo-moral superiority.

In other words, you're part of the problem

Posted by: arioch666 | August 14, 2010 8:36 PM | Report abuse

profiling obama’s future actions--the islamic factor

obama spent his crucial early formative years in moslem indonesia. obama himself has spoken of the moslem call to prayers broadcast 5 times every day.

Zogby conducted a poll of moslem perception of america in 2002 in, and while half of most moslem countries had a favorable view of america, indonesia, along with iran, did not. this is the hate america environment in which obama was immersed during his impressionable young years. remember moses was only raised by his jewish mother until he was weaned, and then in pharaohs house until manhood–yet moses was always jewish-- not egyptian. so it is with obama’s islamic roots.

obama’s exposure to anti american sentiment was voluntarily reinforced by his conscious selection of rev. jeremiah’s church for over 20 years, where anti-american venom was spewed every sunday.

consistent with this islamic worldview, obama selected a wife who famously said during the campaign that this was the first time she was ever proud to be an american.

another factor which will dictate obama’s future actions and is compelled by obama’s islamic worldview, is the fundamentally anti-democratic basis of islam. islamic countries tend to be monarchies or democracies in form only. hence, obama will have and act upon a basic visceral anti democracy worldview, summarized by “one person, one vote, one time”.

interestingly, moslems under islamic regimes, immediately seek to emigrate and indeed 85% of all refugees are moslem. why, if islamic rule is so great??

finally, moslems are permitted and indeed encourages to conceal their religious identity to avoid persecution.

how will this effect obama’s future actions?

1. obama will viscerally oppose israel and particularly jerusalem, as moslems prayed to jerusalem before mecca was selected. israel should NOT take any comfort from jewish advisors to obama–obama will oppose israel.

2. obama is at best indifferent to democracy, and-unbelievably- we have a president who is inherently hostile to the united states.

3. obama will become increasingly intolerant of dissent, free speech, free enterprise–much less opposition, consistent with islamic anti democratic and socialistic norms.

Posted by: ProCounsel | August 14, 2010 8:36 PM | Report abuse

"ProCounsel is certainly not a Prophet,not a religious leader, indeed ProCounsel is not even a very righteous person"

Procounsel should scurry back to his room at the institution before he is missed!

Posted by: 54465446 | August 14, 2010 8:53 PM | Report abuse

to inmate 54465446---

nurse ratchett knows you are on line again

so for you--

counting flowers on the wall


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s8nRL2bPCU&feature=related

Posted by: ProCounsel | August 14, 2010 8:59 PM | Report abuse

Obama thinks it's fine for Muslims to build at Ground Zero, but he's dead set against Jews building anything in East Jerusalem. His principles are limp as boiled spaghetti.

Posted by: ThisIsReality | August 14, 2010 9:03 PM | Report abuse

Procounsel:

Oh, you were serious?????. I'm sorry it certainly wasn't evident from your writings.

Posted by: 54465446 | August 14, 2010 9:07 PM | Report abuse

ProCounsel, you have mental health issues. Believing in conspiracy theories is not a healthy way to live.

Posted by: SlimTyranny | August 14, 2010 9:08 PM | Report abuse

TELEOLOGICUS:

You wrote: "You are comparing the teachings of Christianity to those of Islam in regard to war and violence? And the claim is also that Christianity has waged holy war against infidels just like Islam? That there is no essential difference?"

Yes, when it comes to the waging of war, there is no difference. In fact, as you are probably aware, when the Crusaders took Jerusalem the first thing they did was to indiscriminately slaughter the non-Christian population of all ages. Your knowledge of history is limited, either willfuly or through ignorance. Slaughter with a religious veneer is a well established practice of humanity. Why pretend otherwise? To your question about what were the Muslims doing in the Holy Land in the first place, I would say the same thing Spaniards were doing in Mexico, Central and South America, conquest with religious drapery.

Why is this important now?

Posted by: 54465446 |
==========================

I don't know why it is important now, or even if it is important at all. I don't even know what "it" is.

Many people, yourself perhaps among them, do not know that it was standard practice prior to the introduction of gunpowder and the forging of cannon capable of reducing castles and walled cities, for the besiegers to offer terms that included their lives to inhabitants and fighters of those who surrendered, and to put to the sword or take into slavery the inhabitants of those who refused to do so.

All sides did this. The reason for the well-known policy is obvious. Besieging a castle or walled city usually required much time, resources, ran great risks, e.g. disease, failure of supplies, sudden appearance of relieving armies &etc., and cost the lives of attackers who had to storm the walls. The inhabitants of such walled places were routinely presented with the alternatives of surrender, their lives at least to be spared, or free for all slaughter and plunder if they continued to hold out.

The slaughter of inhabitants and forces of walled cities that refused to surrender was well-established military practice literally thousands of years before the Crusades. That the Crusaders indulged in this with religious satisfaction and fervor is not the same as to say that it was caused by religion. Somehow the false belief has gotten started that such standard military tactics of the time were caused by religious intolerance, when they were merely longstanding and common sense approaches to the problem of reducing walled fortresses before cannon became available.

Are you maintaining that the actual doctrines of Christianity and Islam in regard to war and violence are the same? Are you saying that there are real and significant similarities between Jesus and Mohammed? I am not certain what you are asserting - besides, of course, that I am ignorant and do not know what I am talking about.

Posted by: Teleologicus | August 14, 2010 9:08 PM | Report abuse

Teleologicus:

"Are you maintaining that the actual doctrines of Christianity and Islam in regard to war and violence are the same? Are you saying that there are real and significant similarities between Jesus and Mohammed? I am not certain what you are asserting - besides, of course, that I am ignorant and do not know what I am talking about."

I am saying that the actual doctrines are of no importance whatsoever as indiscriminate slaughter has been carried out by members of every organized religion in the world when it suited their purpose. You don't even sense that what you wrote proves my point. The Crusaders, in spite of their purpose, indiscriminately murdered people because it was "standard practice", religion notwithstanding.

Posted by: 54465446 | August 14, 2010 9:18 PM | Report abuse

Just out of curiosity, are you also a proponent of sharia law?

I eagerly await your column on tolerance of Christianity!

Posted by: debiesam1 | August 14, 2010 9:21 PM | Report abuse

Keep it up, Lefties. You want to defend a murderous cult founded by a pedophile that masquerades as a religion? Be my guest. Far more people here in the hinterland have more damn sense than the rest of you put together. And while you're at it, will you please ask Elliot Engel, Jerrold Nadler and, most especially, Sen. Chuck U. Schumer as to whether they agree or not? Because they sure are awfully quiet.

Posted by: fmcdermott1 | August 14, 2010 9:24 PM | Report abuse

fmcdermott:

You missed the point. Religion is just an excuse for people who want to kill.

Posted by: 54465446 | August 14, 2010 9:30 PM | Report abuse

Barack Hussein Obama-America's weakest link.

Posted by: NoMoeEntitlements | August 14, 2010 9:36 PM | Report abuse

When the socialist hell-care cram-down was on the line last winter, the Constitution was irrelevant.

When the question came to border security last spring, the Oath of Office was irrelevant.

So now that we're talking about mosque builders, the Constitution is paramount?

OK, Uhhh-bama, we get it: You have absolutely no respect for either the memory of those lost on 9/11, or the American people generally. As far as you're concerned, they can just shove it if they don't like it. So don't be too surprised when the American people tell you to shove it in a very loud voice this Nov. 2, Uhhh-bama.

Posted by: DonnyNobama | August 14, 2010 9:38 PM | Report abuse

Teleologicus:

"Are you maintaining that the actual doctrines of Christianity and Islam in regard to war and violence are the same? Are you saying that there are real and significant similarities between Jesus and Mohammed? I am not certain what you are asserting - besides, of course, that I am ignorant and do not know what I am talking about."

I am saying that the actual doctrines are of no importance whatsoever as indiscriminate slaughter has been carried out by members of every organized religion in the world when it suited their purpose. You don't even sense that what you wrote proves my point. The Crusaders, in spite of their purpose, indiscriminately murdered people because it was "standard practice", religion notwithstanding.
===============

Actually it is worse than that. The Crusaders, many of whom came from the warrior aristocracy of (future) France and elsewhere in medieval Europe, were given plenary indulgences by the Pope for going on Crusade to wrest the Holy Land back from the clutches of the Muslim infidel. It was understood by all concerned that this was not to be an altogether diplomatic mission - though ironically, some of the greatest successes resulted from diplomacy and negotiation rather than armed struggle. The whole business was much more complex and far more interesting than the comic book narrative of politically correct multiculturalism, which includes disdain for "all" religions in regard to intolerance and warfare, would have it.

But perhaps we should not look to the military practices of medieval Crusaders, nor to those of their Muslim opponents, not even the great Saladin himself, for our best guides to proper practice of the respective religions. It does not appear to be an altogether representative sample.

Acknowledging that the gap between theory and practice is often wide, and that it is sometimes so wide as to appear infinite, I still would like to know whether you regard the life and teachings of Jesus in regard to warfare and violence to be similar in essential respects to those of Mohammed. This seems a reasonable question, since these were the founders, or at least the first exponents, of the religions that followed.

Posted by: Teleologicus | August 14, 2010 9:39 PM | Report abuse

When the socialist hell-care cram-down was on the line last winter, the Constitution was irrelevant.

When the question came to border security last spring, the Oath of Office was irrelevant.

So now that we're talking about mosque builders, the Constitution is paramount?

OK, Uhhh-bama, we get it: You have absolutely no respect for either the memory of those lost on 9/11, or the American people generally. As far as you're concerned, they can just shove it if they don't like it. So don't be too surprised when the American people tell you to shove it in a very loud voice this Nov. 2, Uhhh-bama.

Posted by: DonnyNobama | August 14, 2010 9:39 PM | Report abuse

When the socialist hell-care cram-down was on the line last winter, the Constitution was irrelevant.

When the question came to border security last spring, the Oath of Office was irrelevant.

So now that we're talking about mosque builders, the Constitution is paramount?

OK, Uhhh-bama, we get it: You have absolutely no respect for either the memory of those lost on 9/11, or the American people generally. As far as you're concerned, they can just shove it if they don't like it. So don't be too surprised when the American people tell you to shove it in a very loud voice this Nov. 2, Uhhh-bama.

Posted by: DonnyNobama | August 14, 2010 9:40 PM | Report abuse

@PurlGirl

You write: "Uh oh... liquor stores, adult book stores, strip bars, medical marijuana dispensaries, dairies, farms, industry and our family's favorite, nudist resorts.
Well gosh, our family enjoys nudism. What are the changes we could build a nudist resort near the New York Stock Exchange?"

Zoning laws can certainly regulate the types of businesses and buildings in a given district. But under the 14th Amendment's equal protection clause, as well as the first Amendment's guarantee of freedom of religion, you cannot ban the construction of a building based solely on the fact that you find the owners' religion offensive. If you are going to pass a law that says no religious establishments at all in a particular area, perhaps that might hold up in court. But you cannot say that one particular religion may not build when the zoning laws do not prohibit similar constructions by other religions. And the simple FACT of the matter is that the proposed construction is in no way in violation of existing zoning laws.

You continue: "Your "zoning law" notion falls apart as quickly as our family's clothes fall off at our favorite nudist resort."

No, what falls apart is your understanding of how laws apply in this country.

You write: "So, the leftists who routinely attack, denigrate, assault and lie about Christianity and Judaism, are now bravely standing up for Islam. What an incredible bunch of hypocrites you are. You guys would call for a monument to Nazism as an example of "tolerance." And to claim that you are standing up for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights? Where in the Bill of Rights do you have the right to build anything anywhere? Have you never heard of Zoning?"

First of all, there are many, many Christians and Jews in this country who happen to believe Obama is right about this. Second, by bringing up zoning laws, you demonstrate exactly how ignorant you are of the facts surrounding this project. The project IS IN FULL COMPLIANCE WITH ALL ZONING LAWS. IT DIDN'T REQUIRE ANY KIND OF VARIANCE. GET IT?

This is not just a matter of freedom of religion; it is also about the 14th Amendment's guarantee of equal protection of the laws. Zoning laws, like all laws in this country, must be enforced equally towards everyone. To prevent construction of the cultural center, you would have to retroactively change zoning laws. And no court in the country will uphold a zoning "law" that treats one group any differently from another.

Posted by: markpkessinger | August 14, 2010 9:44 PM | Report abuse

So, if this was Pat Robertson or James Dobson and their bigoted, hateful crowd, would their be all of this hatred? Or, if it were a Neo-Nazi group or some Jewish right wing group would their be all of this hatred? So, because they are Muslims, it is 'wrong'. What has happened to the freedom of religion that the constitution guaranteed? For all of you 'strict constitutionalists' out there, how do you defend your anti Muslim position?

Posted by: kinsman_bob | August 14, 2010 9:51 PM | Report abuse

Teleologicus: And you don't seem to get that all religious doctrine is irrelevant. You obviously consider Christianity morally superior. That is noble but possibly less important to the millions of people in the last 600 years who have been killed and enslaved by church-going Christians, with the blessings of those same churches. Ironically, as you are no doubt aware, the world would have a lot fewer Jews in it if Islamic rulers had not given shelter to Jews persecuted and killed in Christian countries until the last 100-200 years or so. You may have missed my original post btw, that I thought what the President said was boneheaded.

Posted by: 54465446 | August 14, 2010 9:56 PM | Report abuse

I believe that 95% of people commenting on this subject have never read a book about Islam, Muslims, or the Middle East. I suggest you get a copy of the Bible and a copy of the Koran and see how very similar they are. If you are not inclined to do that, then once in a while go on the internet to Factcheck.org. I suggest that public opinion is being driven by a group of people sitting in a room somewhere making up fictitious stories and distributing them through blogs and forwarded emails. Don't fall for it. Check things out for yourself.

Posted by: ThelmaMcCoy | August 14, 2010 9:56 PM | Report abuse

obama throws drowning dem house members

a thousand pound anchor

in tight reelection races when dear leader endorsed

the ground zero mosque to honor the 19 muslim hijackers
who murdered 3,000 americans

so why didn’t obama just say it was a nyc matter??

because obama's presidency is in free fall FAILURE.

A failed embittered Presidency can be extremely dangerous--
so a profile of Obama's like FUTURE actions is critical.

In his monumental work "Hitler and Stalin" Alan Bullock notes both Hitler and Stalin were narcissists. ProCounsel is NOT stating Obama is either Hitler or Stalin. But his analysis, written long before Obama's ascendancy, is a useful model.

Bullock explains narcissism on page 11:

"In such a state only the person himself, his needs,feelings and thoughts, everything and and everybody as they relate to him are experienced as fully real, while everybody and everything otherwise lacks reality or interest."

Bullock describes the effects of narcissism and provides a predictive model useful for Obama on page 343:

"Narcissistic personalities are convinced of their special qualities and their superiority over others, and any threat to this self image--such as being criticized, shown up, or defeated--produces a violent outrage and often a desire for revenge."

Bullock cites 3 psychological reactions Stalin used to guard his narcissistic self image. Bullock credits Robert Tucker for these insights on page 356. The 3 reactions to expect for the Obama profile would be:

1. Repression–simply blankly deny the truth, no matter how obvious or even if caught on video

2. Rationalization-Admit but use the fault as proof of his zeal

3. Projection-Obama will attribute to others the motives and attitudes he refuses to admit in himself

Ironically, per the Profile Dems in the House and Senate will be in much more danger from a wounded irrelevant White House than the Republicans, as Obama will deem the Dems unworthy of him--THEY failed NOT him.

Stalin divided by class, Hitler divided by “race.” Obama divides by class and race.

Obama is in the bunker.

And when narcissists are going down, they want everyone and everything to fail.

The decline and destruction of obama has just begun.

Posted by: ProCounsel | August 14, 2010 9:58 PM | Report abuse

So you say he showed spine--in my opinion who showed lack of thought--once again Mr Obama is on the wrong side of an issue. My understanding is there are 30 mosques in NY--there is no compelling reason for them to build this mega mosque one block from ground zero--I rather think they are more interested in sticking this in our eye vs any ecumenical rationale. The mosque should not be built there period.

Posted by: rpg629 | August 14, 2010 9:59 PM | Report abuse

Procounsel:

Why do you post this crazy stuff? Seriously, it makes me wonder if you are in your house watching Glenn Beck 24/7. If you are not just trying to provoke a reaction, you need to turn off the tv and internet for awhile.

Posted by: 54465446 | August 14, 2010 10:07 PM | Report abuse

"The mosque should not be built there period."

Whew. Good thing it's not a mosque, then.

Posted by: schrodingerscat | August 14, 2010 10:08 PM | Report abuse

If Obama had spine he would have represented Americans thoughts and feelings.

Sure it would have taken guts to explain to his audience at the dinner that while Americans enjoy rights to religion and free speech they don't enjoy the right to abuse those rights, by yelling "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater, for example.

Obama has no guts, he just has deep pockets and he wanted them filled before the audience left.

Posted by: pn27 | August 14, 2010 10:12 PM | Report abuse

To bernardo2 and all the others slagging him off: read that excerpt of his speech and tell me whats wrong with it?

Its the most American thing u can say. 1 block, 5 blocks, lets not get hysterical, the argument agaonst this makes it sound like they are building a statute of Bin Laden on ground zero.

Just relax

Posted by: Chops2 | August 14, 2010 10:15 PM | Report abuse

All of this turned out that Obama wasn't saying much of anything:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/14/obamas-support-ground-zero-mosque-draws/

Even when he takes a stand, he can't really take a stand.

Posted by: Ombudsman1 | August 14, 2010 10:18 PM | Report abuse

markpkessinger comments, "You write: 'So, the leftists who routinely attack....'

I did not write those words. You are practicing deceit. You are a good left liberal socialist just like Obama!

Your freewill choice to beguile and deceive readers prompts me to dismiss any writings of yours as deceitful.

Left liberal socialists, shoot, they will lie when truth fits better.

Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation

Posted by: PurlGurl | August 14, 2010 10:21 PM | Report abuse

Would somebody please tell me what plum line means? What is the name of this byline refering to?

Posted by: bobilly2 | August 14, 2010 10:28 PM | Report abuse

Would somebody please tell me what plum line means? What is the name of this byline refering to?

Posted by: bobilly2 | August 14, 2010 10:29 PM | Report abuse

Would somebody please tell me what plum line means? What is the name of this byline refering to?

Posted by: bobilly2 | August 14, 2010 10:30 PM | Report abuse

Would somebody please tell me what plum line means? What is the name of this byline refering to?

Posted by: bobilly2

Its from the building trade bobilly2.

plumb line
n.
1. A line from which a weight is suspended to determine verticality or depth.
2. A line regarded as directed exactly toward the earth's center of gravity.

Using plumb line as the byline of the blog may seem ironic to those who detect it is not 'toward the center', but actually left leaning partisan with an ideological axe to grind.

Posted by: pn27 | August 14, 2010 10:36 PM | Report abuse

@fcmcdermott1:

You write: "And while you're at it, will you please ask Elliot Engel, Jerrold Nadler and, most especially, Sen. Chuck U. Schumer as to whether they agree or not? Because they sure are awfully quiet."

Perhaps that's because they're smart enough to realize that they are elected at the federal level, and this is an issue of local, not federal, jurisdiction.

Posted by: markpkessinger | August 14, 2010 10:43 PM | Report abuse

"Would somebody please tell me what plum line means? What is the name of this byline refering to?"

It's a play on "plumb line" and also "the Plum Book". When this blog was first started it was part of the "Who Runs Gov" site.

Posted by: schrodingerscat | August 14, 2010 10:43 PM | Report abuse

God Bless the President. Continuing to ensure Republicans take over the Congress in November.

Posted by: zoomie95 | August 14, 2010 10:51 PM | Report abuse

The WaPo must be hell bent on bankruptcy. This guy is like a poster child for the failings of modern day journalism "schools."

No one disputes the legal right, Greg, you shill. But the issue of funding, truth of position, and just simple good taste and sensitivity are indisputable. Amazing how "sensitivity" is only required if you're on the conservative side of the fence....

Posted by: subframer | August 14, 2010 11:01 PM | Report abuse

And which courageous Obama are you talking about? The one from yesterday, or the oops I really meant... of today? Your slavish admiration of your Chosen One is embarrassing. And so, so professional, your mom has to be proud.

Could this proposed mosque be used to assemble a WMD right in the center of the city, without risk of prying eyes from Napatilano (sic) and the gang? Not even San Fran is stupid enough to allow something like this. Or are they?

Posted by: stvcar | August 14, 2010 11:03 PM | Report abuse

Gilbertbp had it right. This is not about the right to build a building. This is about actually understanding why people are sensative about this issue.

Gilbertbp wrote: You have the right to spit in the street. You even have the right to spit on my father's grave. But if you spit on my father's grave, don't get all indignant if I'm mortally offended, and don't get up on your high horse demanding I respect you. I'll respect your right to spit wherever you want, but I won't respect YOU, and you can forget about ever "coming to a closer understanding" between us.

__________

The President has been extremely bad at judging what the American people are thinking. President GW Bush also had a similar problem but President Obama's "tin ear" is much worse.

This inability to understand that American voters aren't just "mad, angry, gun-clinkers, religious-nuts" will eventually play out in the coming elections.

Most Democrats (particularly those who aren't progressives) have tried to steer clear of this issue because they understand it isn't about "rights" but "sensitivities".

Mr. President, please stop listening to your so-called "advisors"---we, your former voters, think you are ill-advised; prove it by listening to what is being said.

Posted by: mil1 | August 14, 2010 11:14 PM | Report abuse

Geez... this guy is another Kool-Aid drinker for Obama. What this blind fool fails to see is the symbolic value of a mosque being built at the site of a destroyed World Trade Center . And consider:

Obama told a Muslim audience in Cairo, Egypt, that America is not a Christian nation.

Obama told NASA administrator Bolden, that his top priority was to woo the Muslims... and then Obama killed American manned space flight.

Obama now desires to see this symbol of Muslim victory over the United States.

Obama and his gang hate America; 2012 cannot get here soon enough.

Posted by: wilsan | August 14, 2010 11:15 PM | Report abuse

Obama's support of this insult to the memory of 3000 Americans killed in the name of Islam should make it clear to everything now what he is: a Manchurian Candidate connived into the presidency to destroy our nation. The American people should appeal to the US military to remove this enemy of the historic American Nation from office. Preferably in a bloodless coup, but by whatever means necessary.

Posted by: greg3 | August 14, 2010 11:16 PM | Report abuse

One of the finest moments of Obama's Presidency? What country does Mr. Sargent call home? This Plum Line is Plum Stupid! The American People are not. They will not re-elect this President who couldn't care less about what they think or give the appropriate respect to the families of 9/11. We will NEVER forget 9/11 Mr. President -- and building ordinances and minority rights aside -- neither should you!

Posted by: mpwynn | August 14, 2010 11:18 PM | Report abuse

mpwynn says "... minority rights aside"

HAHAHAHA

That statement, in all its glory, is the epitome of right wing anti-American, anti-Constititution, anti-democratic venom.

WE GET IT, MPWYNN --- You right wingers don't give two sh*ts about the Constitution. You're fake patriots who hate the America that actually exists (with all its civil rights and civil liberties, with its religious pluralism, with its ethnic intermingling). WE ALL KNOW YOU WANT TO SCRAP THE CONSTITUTION AND ITS CONCEPTS OF RELIGIOUS LIBERTY AND EQUAL RIGHTS.

The right wingers here are bigots and hate America.

Posted by: SlimTyranny | August 14, 2010 11:33 PM | Report abuse

SlimTyranny wrote: The right wingers here are bigots and hate America.
___________________________________________

Just because we side with Americans vs Saudis. Take a bath, hippy.

Posted by: sold2u | August 14, 2010 11:44 PM | Report abuse

Obama will never transcend the politics of the moment. He isn't capable of it. That is all he is, a political opportunist! Building a mosque at Ground O is the radical Muslims way of thumbing their nose at America!

Posted by: auntjane | August 14, 2010 11:46 PM | Report abuse

Soap Opera Sarah is right. Democrats have no cajones. The rest run in fear when one grows a pair.

This is a basic First Amendment issue. It is reminiscent of when those who-manipulate- with fear put Japanese Americans in concentration camps.

Posted by: areyousaying | August 14, 2010 11:48 PM | Report abuse

He showed his presidential spine? I would say he showed his presidential a_ _.

Posted by: waterfrontproperty | August 14, 2010 11:54 PM | Report abuse

Mr. Sargent provides yet another liberal misinterpretation of the thoughts and feelings of those who oppose the building of the Muslim community center. This has nothing to do with Muslim’s exercising their legal right to build the center; but it has everything to do with WHERE they have chosen to build it. The decision to build in this location at this time flies in the face of the builder's stated objective of "building bridges" to non-Muslims and it is completely inappropriate. It is also hideously amusing that liberals, famous for their ability to "feel your pain", in this case are suddenly incapable of feeling the pain of the victim's families.

I also have to agree that Obama's initial statement and subsequent backpedaling and "clarification" IS illustrative of his finest, spineless, cowardly, politically correct, pandering presidency. Allah help us!

Posted by: DogtorObvious | August 14, 2010 11:57 PM | Report abuse

How's that spine looking Greg?

Posted by: cleancut77 | August 15, 2010 12:08 AM | Report abuse

Looks like Barry is doing some back peddling again. Now he says that what he said is not what he said. The guy is truly a snake. He is not to be trusted or believed. So according to him, the whole World misinterpreted what he said or at least what he meant. Sure Barry, keep on smoking.

Posted by: nychap44 | August 15, 2010 12:11 AM | Report abuse

I'm sure all of the political heat Obama is taking regarding the Victory Mosque is Bush's fault.

Posted by: sold2u | August 15, 2010 12:18 AM | Report abuse

Most of us commenting here are doing so because we believe that Islam, with the help of many of our elected leaders and organizations such as the ACLU, CAIR, The Muslim Students' Association, or Muslim Student Union etc… is being forced upon us. I know that I am not against all Muslims. However, before you come into my house and eat my food, you must first earn my trust and respect. Earning our respect is where our elected leaders and Islam are failing miserably. America deserves a government better than the one we have. Just as our elected leaders have the responsibility to serve the people, we too have the responsibility to vote OUT those that put personal and political interests before the people’s interests. The change necessary to restore America must start with America. Voting for someone based on promised tangibles rather than good moral character, means that you are already bought and paid for, in which case you deserve the government we have. Eight year term limits for all elected leaders will help to minimize political corruption and the fallacy that our elected leaders are entitled to more than those they serve.

Posted by: amex1 | August 15, 2010 12:22 AM | Report abuse

This is not a Constitutional issue. The Constitution is clear about freedom of religion, and no one of authority in opposition to this mosque/muslim community center is trying to say otherwise. Besides, those that claim that this is just Obama standing up for the Constitution must have had blinders on during the rest of his presidency, when constitutionality was neglected as criteria for a whole manner of policy issues (most notably the national health care mandates). This president is a hack and I am personally offended that so many Americans were dumb enough to believe his hope and change rhetoric in the first place. As the Founders often wrote, the republic can only survive so long as we have an educated and informed electorate...

Posted by: doejoshdoe | August 15, 2010 12:29 AM | Report abuse

This is why I am no longer a democrat.


They are actually proud of Obama for this. They will be proud to have a Mosque at ground zero. Despite the fact that these people will set up a live internet connection showing ground zero around the world so Muslims worldwide can see where their great victory took place. Because this somehow shows how tolerant we are.


The Democratic Party is a diseased party which will be disbanded after tne next two elections.


Posted by: FormerDemocrat | August 15, 2010 12:38 AM | Report abuse

The right-wing logic pretzel apparently goes something like: if we don't agree to deny a certain class of Americans their First Amendment rights, they're going to have to resort to their Second Amendment remedies. They plan to ride that platform to a victory in November? If that happens we'd better be ready to either reconstitute the draft or get the hell out of the ME entirely - OBL's dream come true.

Posted by: tm13 | August 15, 2010 1:00 AM | Report abuse

Traditionally Islam builds mosques at the sites of their conquests and victories.

Obama spent twenty years in a Christian church in Chicago with a preacher who said of 9/11 that “the chickens had come home to roost”; a preacher who originally was a Black Muslim until he embraced Black Liberation theology. A preacher who Obama called his "mentor", "friend" and "spiritual leader".

There is no wonder why he has yet to have selected a church to attend.

Posted by: fury60 | August 15, 2010 2:29 AM | Report abuse

It is a little ironic that Obama is suddenly so sensitive to the Constitution after spending the whole of his presidency either shredding it or ignoring it.

The Chrysler bondholders might think his new found belief in the sanctity of private property to be a little sanctimonious.

But then, consistency and fairness have never been Liberal/Progressive virtues.

Posted by: Xdem | August 15, 2010 2:42 AM | Report abuse

Guess all that democratic pride sure taste's like egg now.

He didn't even let you get a good night's sleep before he threw you under the bus.

Sweet.

Posted by: NelsonMuntz | August 15, 2010 3:46 AM | Report abuse

So Obama has outed himself as a Muslim But
Imam Rauf is a liar--taqiyya-its ok to lie to infidels.The Cordoba Iniative has ties to Iran.He met with Mohammad Javad Larijani: secretary-general of Iran's High Council for Human Rights, brother of Ali Larijani.
The photo was on the Cordoba Initiative page but they scrubbed it.Read the following -there are links tothe actual saved screen shot of Rauf with Larijani.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/an-iranian-connection-to-the-cordoba-house-ground-zero-mosque/?singlepage=true


Rauf also attended a 2007 conference with Hizb ut Tahrir-an organisation dedicated to establishing an Islmaic Caliphate worldwide.

For this, see:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/terror-ties-ground-zero-imam-attended-hizb-ut-tahrir-conference/?singlepage=true

Rauf wrote a book and the Arabic translation is completely different from the English version he put out.In the book Rauf advocates for Sharia law to be established.See:

http://www.shoebat.com/blog/archives/393

This is the true devious deceptive Rauf.He wants to build the mosque to do all of these.

Posted by: cgjones99 | August 15, 2010 6:17 AM | Report abuse

@PurlGurl

I accidentally misquoted you, and i apologize. In my response, I inadvertently copied part of another post I had made to this thread. The last sentence I intended to include in my 9:44 p.m. post from 8/14 directed towards you was, "No, what falls apart is your understanding of how laws apply in this country." Everything after that was part of the earlier post to someone else. Again, my apologies.

Posted by: markpkessinger | August 15, 2010 6:24 AM | Report abuse

Teleologicus: And you don't seem to get that all religious doctrine is irrelevant. You obviously consider Christianity morally superior. That is noble but possibly less important to the millions of people in the last 600 years who have been killed and enslaved by church-going Christians, with the blessings of those same churches. Ironically, as you are no doubt aware, the world would have a lot fewer Jews in it if Islamic rulers had not given shelter to Jews persecuted and killed in Christian countries until the last 100-200 years or so. You may have missed my original post btw, that I thought what the President said was boneheaded.

Posted by: 54465446 | August 14, 2010 9:56 PM
================

While I do not deny your perfect right not to respond to the question I have now more than once asked you, namely whether it is your considered opinion that the lives and doctrines of Jesus and Mohammed are for all practical purposes identical, it is nevertheless regrettable that, for reasons known but to yourself, you decline to answer this simple question.

Posted by: Teleologicus | August 15, 2010 8:09 AM | Report abuse

The left's minds are so open their brains have fallen out. You're as tone deaf as our president, Greg. It's amazing to me that an educated intelligent man could so completely miss the issue.

Posted by: twann9852 | August 15, 2010 8:59 AM | Report abuse

Well, so much for "one of the finest moments of his presidency." Hey Greg! Remember! You and your Journolist buddies are working for a guy who's already shown he'll throw his own grandmother under s bus. Imagine what he's willing to do to guys like you.

Posted by: Jimeo722 | August 15, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

So many people want to speak of the mosque as morally wrong in their decision, without recognizing that they themselves are morally wrong in judging and discriminating against an entire religion because of the acts of some violent extremists.

It is at these moments that our country defines itself. This mosque issue will be forgotten in a few years, but the right to freedom of religion (without political persecution!!) MUST be protected under our Constitution. That's the big picture, and is more important than 911 wounds or xenophobic resentments.

Obama proves again that he has a moral compass, which is what the Republicans are sorely without. They lack moral leadership.

Posted by: Beeliever | August 15, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

"So many people want to speak of the mosque as morally wrong in their decision, without recognizing that they themselves are morally wrong in judging and discriminating against an entire religion because of the acts of some violent extremists."

So then, Operation Rescue should be able to open up some "church & culture centers" next to abortion clinics, because after all it was only a few extremists that were actually killing abortion doctors or blowing up their clinics? Somehow I doubt you would be quite so absolute in your judgment against folks opposed to that.

Posted by: ucfengr_2000 | August 15, 2010 8:02 PM | Report abuse

The legal right is not in question. Many things are legal and offensive. I abhor the pictures that the right to life organizations have subjected my small children to see yet I support thier right to display them. I find it objectionable. And I believe most right to lifers disapprove of those signs as well. I would not build a German Cultural Center at Auschwitz nor a Stature to General Sherman in Savannah. I may have a right to but it would be wrong. That is what is improper here. Not the right but the reason. President Obama in his first statements and then subsequent statements has now more or less voted "Present".

Posted by: jamesgkelly1 | August 16, 2010 7:44 AM | Report abuse

Re: This comment:
"So many people want to speak of the mosque as morally wrong in their decision, without recognizing that they themselves are morally wrong in judging and discriminating against an entire religion because of the acts of some violent extremists."

Then in other words, you can't call all Tea Partiers racist because of the acts of some 'racist' extremists?

When the shoe is on the other foot, it doesn't fit your agenda.

Muslims build mosques on sites they've conquered.

Do you understand that too?

Posted by: Schooner535 | August 16, 2010 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Once again, Obama and Hamas are on the same side and against the American people. If tolerance and understanding are the goals, then Hamas should be building churches in Saudi Arabia and other muslim countries. There are about 100 mosques but zero churches in Saudi Arabia; it's pretty obvious who the intolerant bigots are.

Posted by: TruthWins | August 16, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Interesting commentary from Religious Freedom Coalition chairman William J. Murray:

"President Obama's statement in favor of a mosque at Ground Zero is in deep contrast to ignoring the plight of St. Nicholas, the only church destroyed on 9-11. It has still not been rebuilt because of government red tape."

http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/7476714703.html

Nine years have passed and a Christian church is still not allowed to be built near Ground Zero.

Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation

Posted by: PurlGurl | August 16, 2010 6:55 PM | Report abuse

Every day this TPM/JournoList reject looks more idiotic.
Should change the name to "The Dumb Line".

Posted by: OxyCon | August 16, 2010 7:23 PM | Report abuse

Someone please teach the whole constitution to this poorly educated clown.

Posted by: pub123 | August 16, 2010 7:57 PM | Report abuse

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