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Senator Lugar won't take position on "mosque"

Senator Richard Lugar is one of the Beltway's most respected GOP voices on national security, an old-line foreign policy "realist" who is generally not afraid to take positions at odds with the neoconservatives in his party.

So I'd been wondering whether Lugar would side with the neocons and other GOP officials who oppose Cordoba House -- or whether he'd throw his lot in with the Bush administration figures who have come out in favor of it, and have called on Republicans to tone down their rhetoric against the project.

Here's our answer: Neither. He's declining to take a position. Lugar senior adviser Mark Helmke emails me: "As a former mayor, he sees it as a local decision for New York City to make."

In one sense, it's striking that Lugar won't come out against the project. Most GOP elected officials have stressed that this is a local issue, as Lugar is doing, but they've also expressed disapproval of it, on the grounds that it's insensitive to the 9/11 families. That Lugar is not willing to echo those claims suggests he probably doesn't find that a convincing enough rationale to oppose it. After all, that's not a hard position for a Republican to take.

But ultimately, Lugar's refsual to take a position has to be seen as a disappointment to the project's proponents. Lugar is widely seen by Beltway insiders as a foreign policy giant of sorts, and if he bucked the neoconservative line on Cordoba House, it would be big news. He would be an ideal candidate to issue a strong statement in defiance of the Cheney-ites who are increasingly setting the GOP's foreign policy agenda. Alas, for the time being, at least, it's not to be.

By Greg Sargent  |  August 27, 2010; 12:55 PM ET
Categories:  2010 elections , Foreign policy and national security , Senate Republicans  
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Comments

Lugar's refsual [SIC] seems fine by me.

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 27, 2010 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Good for Dick Lugar. I feel the same way. Maybe it's a Hoosier thing. Sure would be nice if more people could learn to mind their own business.

Posted by: CalD | August 27, 2010 1:03 PM | Report abuse

I linked to this earlier, but am doing so again. Mark Lynch at Foreign Policy does a roundup of ME journalists coverage of our "debate":


"Where the anti-mosque movement and escalating anti-Islam rhetoric is really resonating is with the Arab mainstream --- that vast middle ground which had hoped that the election of Barack Obama would mark a real change from the Bush administration but have grown increasingly disappointed. The mosque issue has been covered heavily on Arab satellite TV stations such as al-Jazeera, and the images of angry Americans chanting slogans and waving signs against Islam have resonated much like the images of angry Arabs burning American flags and denouncing U.S. policy did with American viewers after 9/11. The recent public opinion surveys showing widespread hostility towards Islam among Americans have also gotten a lot of attention.

It all contributes to the ongoing deterioriation of their residual hope in Obama's ability to bring about meaningful change. It's confirming the worst fears of too many mainstream Arabs and Muslims, and thus providing fodder for the extremists who hope to exploit that atmosphere."

http://lynch.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/08/25/us_anti_islam_movement_angering_mainstream_arabs_not_extremists

Posted by: suekzoo1 | August 27, 2010 1:03 PM | Report abuse

sue, that's amazing. thanks for that. exactly what proponents of the project have argued.

Posted by: Greg Sargent | August 27, 2010 1:10 PM | Report abuse

"As a former mayor, he sees it as a local decision for New York City to make."

That is exactly correct.

This discussion has very little to do with ground zero though. The rightwingers are protesting mosques in TN and CA too. Heck, they are organizing a "burn a Koran" day.

As has been pointed out by Michael Bloomberg and numerous others, this is about injecting xenophobic tension into the political debate to garner more votes. The mosque is really just a tool for the GOP.

That this has a negative effect on foreign relations, and is a setback for the "War on Terror," matters not a wit to the rightwing. The only thing that matters is short term political gain.

Posted by: nisleib | August 27, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse


Lugar's refsual [SIC] seems fine by me.

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 27, 2010 1:00 PM


........................

I came across a comment that you posted recently, where you said that you had not contemplated "assasination" and then you added: "yet"

What was that in relation too, and why were you leaving open the future option of "assassination", and who would your target be?

Posted by: Liam-still | August 27, 2010 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Contrast Lugar with Barry who's back peddled more than a bear on a unicycle.

For all the talk about Obama being more like Clinton, he's been Carter on stilts-- waffling while the economy and the country decline into malaise.

On the mosque issue alone he took four (4!) separate positions in the space of a week – first he wouldn't comment, then he was for it, then he backed off and finally he backed off backing off.

That's not leadership, it's clown college!

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | August 27, 2010 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Liam, JakeD2 is a troll. He said a lot of that kind of thing on when Weigel had his blog at WaPo. Take that for what it's worth.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | August 27, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Will Bloomberg publicly apologize to the secular Muslim NY Cabbie and his family for inciting the pro-jihad mosque vigilantee to moby violence?

It's past time to take a little ownership for Bloomberg's orchestrated Islamo-supremacist advocacy campaign.

What gets lost in all Bloomberg's recent demogoguery is that the Muslim cabbie victim is himself a hateful hater, bigot, inauthentic, xenophobic, neanderthal-- at least, if you go by the criterion set out by Bloomberg (and his Quisling toadies in the media): Opposing the mosque is "Islamophobia"-- period. Right?

As an anti-jihadist, however, I’m inclined to observe that the Muslim cabbie’s pretty much consonant in his opinion of the Cordoba mosque with a super majority (70%) of his fellow Americans.

That Bloomberg's proteges will be disappointed to discover the opinion of this Muslim cabbie apostate tells you all you need to know about the two "sides" of this debate.

Own it, Quislings.

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | August 27, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

@nisleib: "Heck, they are organizing a 'burn a Koran' day."

I think those folks are mostly there own brand of nut. Kind of like Joe Stalin ≠ Barack Obama. Even though they are both on the left side of the fence post.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | August 27, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

@Kaddafi: "Own it, Quislings."

I've grown to hate that word. And I wrote an (instrumental) song with that name. Technically, it just kept it's working title (I really wasn't thinking about Nazi sympathizers while in the midst of composition), but I actually think I'm going to change it, because of how much I've grown to hate that word--just the sound of it, in my head, as I read your comments.

And, frankly, I find some of your anti-jihadist rhetoric inflammatory, but interesting to read. Not that you'll listen to me, but I'm okay with reading most of your post (whether I agree with it or not), until the whole "Own it, Quislings" thing.

Or do you feel you cannot make your point without rhetorically spitting in everybody's face?

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | August 27, 2010 1:32 PM | Report abuse

@ suekzoo1 | August 27, 2010 1:03 PM:

This of course illustrates why we must all keep fanning the flames with hyperventilated ululations from both sides of the divide for as long as humanly possible.

Posted by: CalD | August 27, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

@ Kevin_Willis | August 27, 2010 1:32 PM:

Shhhhh. Don't tell him how stupid he looks when he says stuff like that. You'll spoil the fun. Just giggle and point.

Posted by: CalD | August 27, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Kaddafi, what do you think of this statement:

"[Escalating anti-Islam rhetoric is] confirming the worst fears of too many mainstream Arabs and Muslims, and thus providing fodder for the extremists who hope to exploit that atmosphere."

What are your thoughts on that comment, Kaddafi?

I'd also be interested in the thoughts of Kevin_Willis and JakeD2 on that statement.

What are your thoughts when you read that the anti-Muslim atmosphere in the U.S. is providing FODDER FOR EXTREMIST MUSLIMS?

Posted by: Ethan2010 | August 27, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Greg - At some point in time I'd love some analysis on the short term vs. long term effect of the GOP's xenophobia.

I have no doubt that the GOP will do well in 2010, but I don't see how all this hate they are pumping out does them any favors in the long run.

First it was the New Black Panther non-troversy. I doubt that will do much long term damage, the GOP wrote off African Americans decades ago.

Then it was amending the 14th amendment, @nchor babies, terrorist @nchor babies etc. This, in my opinion, will really hurt the GOP for decades.

Now it is mosques, which is really just a not-so-clever way of Right-wingers saying all Muslims are terrorists. So I'm guessing the Republicans are now writing off Muslims as a voting block.

It seems the GOP is trading future (beyond 2010) votes for votes in the 2010 election.

What do you think, will this nonsense come back to hurt them?

Take a look at the last set of victims of Republican xenophobia: g@ys. Was there a notable decrease in g@y support for the GOP after there promises to amend the constitution to outlaw gay marriage? Basically my question is: has the GOP paid a price for their hate speech already, and what does that tell us about the future?

Posted by: nisleib | August 27, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

[Kevin_Willis: "I've grown to hate that word... Or do you feel you cannot make your point without rhetorically spitting in everybody's face?"]

If folks aren't Bloomberg's protege's, then surely they don't need to own the Quisling indictment, now do they?

If they are, however, then that indictment is their own. KDF has no Jedi mind power over another's conscience.

The sting is merely a function of self-reflection. The spittle one feels is one's own.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."
[Proverbs 27:17]

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | August 27, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse


CalD:

Don't worry, I'm not considering assassination (yet).

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 26, 2010 2:35 PM |

..................

Explain what you mean by that. Who are you talking about being a possible target for you to assassinate in the future?

Posted by: Liam-still | August 27, 2010 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Greg - How is a commenter calling Michael Bloomberg a "Quisling" okay? Why do you allow this?

You must realize he is cutting and pasting nonsensical talking points and insulting all of us.

How is it you find someone calling a Jewish man a quisling okay? That seems beyond the limits of blog etiquette to me.

Posted by: nisleib | August 27, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Kevin, and Ethan,

Keep after him, I think you are close to winning him over. Any day now, he will "Quisling" himself, and nominate Mayor Bloomberg for A Profile In Courage Award.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 27, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

@ nisleib | August 27, 2010 1:48 PM:

It's just a new sandwich at Quizno's. Mmmmmm, toasty.

Posted by: CalD | August 27, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

@Ethan2010: Can anyone imagine FDR in the midst of WWII sputtering, "Escalating anti-fascist rhetoric is confirming the worst fears of too many mainstream Germans and Italians, and thus providing fodder for the extremists who hope to exploit that atmosphere."

Mainstream German-American's like General Eisenhower would find that rhetoric absurd and insulting. Yet, today's Leftists find no problem flinging that same patronizing tone at mainstream secular Muslims. Why?

I don't know how many times I need to repeat the message before it sinks into the thick skulls of Quisling apologists for Imam Rauf-- but my patience is spent with these lying, slandering Quislings for Islamo-supremacism.

This has NOTHING to do with intolerance of secular Muslims and everything to do with the apartheid Islamo-supremacism of Cordoba House, in particular.

Somehow, I think Quislings here wouldn't support a neo-pagan's "right" to erect an eternal Crann Tara monument next to a MLK memorial.

But when patriotic Americans object to stealth jihadists-- and (yes) that accurately describes the Cordoba House cabal-- opening a 9/11 snuff porn vendor emporium (and jihadi recruitment center) on the hallowed graves of Ground Zero-- the Quisling hypocrits shriek with indignation!

American Muslims may be the very soul of moderation. But I don’t think it’s unreasonable for Americans to ask for more from (allegedly) “peaceful” Cordoba House jihadists than insincere bromides and disingenuous whitewashing of uncomfortable elements of Islamic sharia law, as practiced by the Cordoba House cabal and their financial sponsors.

A genuine tiny minority of anti-jihadist Muslims may be found @
http://secularislam.org/

Americans remain breathless in anticipation of the sharia law vendors of Cordoba House supporting this genuinely tiny minority of their co-religionists-- but don’t hold your breath.

When will Quislings support Secular Islam advocates' right to live free from the sharia law intimidation of Cordoba House Islamo-supremacists?

"Ye blind guides, that strain out the gnat, and swallow the camel!"

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | August 27, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Are the rumors true, that the reason why Bin Laden can not be found is because he shaved off beard, donned a Wonder Woman costume, and moved to New York?

Posted by: Liam-still | August 27, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

@nisleib: I'll make Quislings a deal, if Greg (and his Quisling toadies) stop their orchestrated attacks on patriotic Americans as “racists, fascists, Islamophobes, xenophobes, neanderthals, bigots” (the whole Star Wars cantina of Quisling boogeymen), then I promise to stop reminding them that they are behaving like Quislings for Islamo-supremacists.

Quislings must realize they are parroting the same tired, refried Cordoba House propaganda and insulting secular Muslims.

What gets lost in the Quislings' recent demogoguery is that the Muslim cabbie victim is himself a hateful hater, bigot, inauthentic, xenophobic, neanderthal-- at least, if you go by the criterion set out by Bloomberg (and his Quisling toadies in the media): Opposing the mosque is "Islamophobia"-- period. Right?

As an anti-jihadist, however, I’m inclined to observe that the Muslim cabbie’s pretty much consonant in his opinion of the Cordoba mosque with a super majority (70%) of his fellow Americans.

That Bloomberg's proteges are disappointed to discover the opinion of this Muslim cabbie apostate tells you all you need to know about the two "sides" of this debate.

Own it, Quislings.

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | August 27, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

"my patience is spent with these lying, slandering......"

I know how you feel.

Tell me Kaddafi...

How many secular Muslims are there in the world and how many "Islamo-supremacists" are there?

You seem to think you have the facts on your side.

So I want to hear numbers and I want to see the source of those numbers.

Thanks.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | August 27, 2010 2:09 PM | Report abuse

@Liam-still: "Keep after him, I think you are close to winning him over."

Being obviously right doesn't mean you have to be so smug about being obviously right. ;)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | August 27, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Don't worry, Liam-still, all will be revealed in due time (I will no doubt answer your questions to me in less time than it took for you to answer my question to you whether you ever had watched "The West Wing" to see if you had some context for that bit about a Khudanese life being worth less than an American life ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 27, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

KaddafiDelendaEst:

And, even if Sharron Angle were a racist, fascist, Islamophobe, xenophobe, neanderthal, bigot, crazy, dangerous psychopath -- she would still be better in the U.S. Senate than Harry Reid ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 27, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

SophmoricParaprasedLatinQuotation is making me hungry with all this talk about Quizno's. I'm gonna go forage for food. Extra credit if you can get him to quote more scripture though.

Posted by: CalD | August 27, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

CalD:

Don't worry, I'm not considering assassination (yet).

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 26, 2010 2:35 PM |

..................

Explain what you mean by that. Who are you talking about being a possible target for you to assassinate in the future?
.................

OK, so you have some secret plan to possible assassinate some person; (in public life?) and you do not want reveal who that person is.

Fair enough; I guess we will just have to have the Secret Service and Homeland Security look into it, because you sure sound like you are not making an idle threat.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 27, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

"even if Sharron Angle were a racist, fascist, Islamophobe, xenophobe, neanderthal, bigot, crazy, dangerous psychopath -- she would still be better in the U.S. Senate than Harry Reid"

How do you explain your views on this?

Honestly.

Please give me a detailed response on why you think having a fascist in the Senate would be better than Harry Reid.

Honestly, I would really like to know your reasoning for such an obviously extreme statement as preferring a FASCIST over a Democrat.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | August 27, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

I think this matters much more inside the Beltway-NYC echo chamber. Lugar is right just like Harry Reid is right. This is not a big deal. It's a pretty sensible and straightforward position, as well as an easy way to dodge the real issue.

For what it's worth, it's Bloomberg whose position matters most. And it's his leadership and decision to "double down" on supporting the Park51 project that is going to sway people.

Posted by: benintn | August 27, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

[Ethan2010: "How many secular Muslims are there in the world and how many "Islamo-supremacists" are there?...I want to hear numbers and I want to see the source of those numbers."]

Sure thing. Right after you enumerate how many fascists were in FDR's world and how many anti-fascists. Be comprehensive. Cite your sources.

Meanwhile, rational folks will continue to focus on how many Islamo-supremacists are present in the sharia-compliant Cordoba House cabal? and how many jihadists they intend to recruit at their proposed Ground Zero mega-mosque?

But thanks for acknowledging your abysmal ignorance on the global jihad subject. +15,000 deadly Islamo-fascist attacks since 9/11 don't lie.
Source: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | August 27, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse


@Liam-still: "Keep after him, I think you are close to winning him over."

Being obviously right doesn't mean you have to be so smug about being obviously right. ;)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | August 27, 2010 2:11 PM |

........................

I was being perfectly sincere. I really do think that you have planted the seeds of doubt in his mind. I sense a lot more Quiz, and a lot less ling in his most recent postings.

You are on the verge of making a convert out of him. O Happy Day!

Posted by: Liam-still | August 27, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

@Ethan2010: "What are your thoughts when you read that the anti-Muslim atmosphere in the U.S. is providing FODDER FOR EXTREMIST MUSLIMS?"

I refer you to August 25th's daily show:

"How about we try a new system, where we don't get a *bleep* what jihadis think?"

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/wed-august-25-2010-drew-barrymore

Full "Community Center of Death" segment, preferably. Starting around 3:00.

I'm pretty much in 100% agreement with John Stewart on this.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | August 27, 2010 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Edit: *give* a bleep what the jihadis think . . .

John Stewart: "We could build them a giant flag incinerator in the middle of Washington, DC, and, somehow, that would make them burn flags . . . ending up as a Zionist conspiracy."

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | August 27, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse

[Quislings crowed: "Being obviously right"]

See also: "The Vision of the Anointed: Self-Congratulation as a Basis for Social Policy"
http://www.amazon.com/Vision-Anointed-Self-Congratulation-Social-Policy/dp/046508995X

*obviously*

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | August 27, 2010 2:29 PM | Report abuse

"Sure thing. Right after you enumerate..."

Exactly. You have no idea.

That's what makes your comments so ridiculous.

You have no idea.

And yet despite that you are willing call a Jewish American public figure a NAZI COLLABORATOR.

Let me give you a little tip, Kaddafi.

If you disagree with someone, be sure to have the facts on hand to make your case. Because when you go around insulting your fellow countrymen and you have no facts to back up your assertions, people will rightly brand you an extremist lunatic.

If you WANT to be seen as an extremist lunatic, by all means continue insulting everyone who disagrees with you without any sort of evidence that you are right.

I, personally, don't think that you care about America in the slightest. But that's just the impression I get from your comments.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | August 27, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Jay Leno is now wearing a flag pin. Whoo, glad that he has started doing that, because so many people were starting to mistake him for one of those Moooozzzzzzzzlem Furner UnMerkin types.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 27, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Liam-still:

Trying looking up these words in a dictionary: "I'm not considering assassination".

Ethan2010:

Apart from Sen. Reid (D-NV) putting our troops in harm's way and TRYING to lose the Iraq war for political purposes, how about we start with his votes for Obamacare and Lilly Bedwetter, TARP, taking over AIG, the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, nationalizing GM and Chrysler?

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 27, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

So Kevin, even if there is concrete evidence that anti-Muslim rhetoric creates MORE EXTREMISTS from people who would otherwise be moderate, it wouldn't matter to you?

I find that hard to believe.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | August 27, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

CalD:

Don't worry, I'm not considering assassination (yet).

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 26, 2010 2:35 PM |

.....................

I notice that you are now trying to disguise the fact that you added the word "yet", so who are you thinking you might "yet" assassinate?

Posted by: Liam-still | August 27, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

SHARRON ANGLE 2010!!!

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 27, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

"Apart from Sen. Reid (D-NV) putting our troops in harm's way and TRYING to lose the Iraq war for political purposes, how about we start with his votes for Obamacare and Lilly Bedwetter, TARP, taking over AIG, the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, nationalizing GM and Chrysler?"

Right. So you disagree with his legislative agenda.

And you think that a FASCIST would be better?

Can you explain why you think a FASCIST would be better?

You kinda skipped over that part, the most essential part of my question, which I actually repeated twice.

Now please, why would you PREFER a FASCIST to a Democrat?

Thanks.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | August 27, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Ethan - It is obvious Jake would much rather have Sharon Angle in the Senate because she would do her best to, oh, say, amend the constitution to outlaw the color black (it's satanic!) and outlaw fluoride.

Posted by: nisleib | August 27, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse


So Kevin, even if there is concrete evidence that anti-Muslim rhetoric creates MORE EXTREMISTS from people who would otherwise be moderate, it wouldn't matter to you?

I find that hard to believe.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | August 27, 2010 2:39 PM

.................

Where is the concrete evidence that has proven any such thing?

How can we ever tell what causes some people to become extremists, and if they would not have become such, except for some hate words that they heard spoken, or read about?

Where were all the extremists, that took violent action against the KKK, when it was at it's strongest?

We have to be very careful about allowing some panel to determine who should be muzzled, because if they can muzzle one group today, they can muzzle us, the next day.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 27, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

nisleib, obviously your answer is correct. Republicans hate America in its current form and hate the Constitution in its current form.

I just want to hear Jake2 explain in detail and in his own words why he thinks a fascist -- who would obviously oppose the Constitution and Bill of Rights -- would be preferable to a Democrat.

Thanks Jake, whenever you're ready.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | August 27, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Greg - Things haven't been the same since they shut down JournOlist. What happened? I mean the theme is there but the talking points are all over the map.

Come on guy, coordinate!

Posted by: luca_20009 | August 27, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Liam-still:

I will answer that question tomorrow (in the meantime, read up on what I was referring CalD to, for instance "Bonhoeffer as Martyr: Social Responsibility and Modern Christian Commitment" by Craig J. Slane).

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 27, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse


SHARRON ANGLE 2010!!!

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 27, 2010 2:43 PM

.................

Out With Fluoridation.

In With Scientology Massages.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 27, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Liam, I was asking Kevin a hypothetical question.

And I certainly NEVER suggested ANYONE be "muzzled" and frankly I am offended that you would put those words in my mouth.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | August 27, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Michael Enright, the 21-year-old student filmmaker accused of slashing a cab driver because he is Muslim, has been transferred from jail to the psychiatric ward at Bellevue Hospital.

The AP reports that Enright was transferred from Rikers Island last night. He is being held without bond pending a court appearance Monday morning in Manhattan.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/08/alleged_cabbie_attacker_transferred_to_psych_ward.php?ref=fpa

Posted by: suekzoo1 | August 27, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

SHARRON ANGLE 2010!!!

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 27, 2010 2:43 PM

..........................

Out With Abiding By Election Results.

In With; Second Amendment Violent Solutions.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 27, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

If more politicians had taken this position, we wouldn't have this controversy. Too many people in Washington seem to think they must have an opinion on everything.

Posted by: Bailers | August 27, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Jake2,

I'm still waiting...

Why would you PREFER a FASCIST to a Democrat?

Thanks.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | August 27, 2010 3:02 PM | Report abuse

I found this too funny:

Gov. Chris Christie (R-NJ) has fired his state Education Commissioner Bret Schundler, as a result of errors and misrepresentations from Schundler in a matter costing the state $400 million in federal "Race to the Top" money. At the same time, the firing has been arranged at Schundler's request in such a manner so that Schundler -- a former leading figure of the state GOP's right wing -- will be able to collect unemployment benefits.

The key detail is that Schundler preferred to be fired, rather than submit his resignation. "I asked if they would mind writing a termination letter, instead of a resignation letter, because I do have a mortgage to pay, and I do have a daughter who's just started college," Schundler said, the Star-Ledger reports. "And I, frankly, will need the unemployment insurance benefits until I find another job. ... And they said fine. They said sure."

...

Late Update: As Robert Costa over at National Review points out, the late William F. Buckley once touted Schundler as a future presidential candidate. It's interesting to point out that Buckley praised Schundler as a small government conservative who was taking on the teacher's unions and the welfare state.

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/08/republican-state-official-gets-fired-instead-of-resigning----so-he-can-collect-unemployment.php?ref=fpblg

Posted by: nisleib | August 27, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

flouride-

all ye need to know about Angle.

She reminds me of the general played by George C. Scott in Dr. Strangelove: "precious bodily fluids". Good stuff-*in Hollywood*!

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | August 27, 2010 3:04 PM | Report abuse


Liam-still:

I will answer that question tomorrow (in the meantime, read up on what I was referring CalD to, for instance "Bonhoeffer as Martyr: Social Responsibility and Modern Christian Commitment" by Craig J. Slane).

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 27, 2010 2:54 PM

........................

I am afraid that I can not accept that. Why should I let you stall like that, and avoid answering who you might "yet" assassinate. What if you plan on doing it before tomorrow? I just do not want to take that chance, because another person said this is not the first time, you have hinted at doing something like that.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 27, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse


flouride-

all ye need to know about Angle.

She reminds me of the general played by George C. Scott in Dr. Strangelove: "precious bodily fluids". Good stuff-*in Hollywood*!

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | August 27, 2010 3:04 PM

...................
Not by George C. Scott.

That precious bodily fluids Officer was played by Sterling Hayden.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 27, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

luca_20009:

Good point!

Ethan2010:

Because a fascist wouldn't have voted for any of that.

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 27, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Liam-still:

You should have thought about that before refusing to answer my question to you for two days.

suekzoo1:

As a registered DEMOCRAT, Mr. Enright is one of yours not mine.

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 27, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

nisleib, this part of that Christie story was interesting as well:

"On Wednesday, Christie held a press conference in which he strongly blamed the Obama administration for the loss of federal funding, saying that Schundler had tried to fix an error in the state's application during his presentation to federal education officials, but they would not let him. Then on Thursday, the federal Education Department released a video of the presentation itself, showing the officials pointing out the error to Schundler, who was unable to correct it.

"I was extremely disappointed to learn that the videotape of the Race to the Top presentation was not consistent with the information provided to me by the New Jersey Department of Education and which I then conveyed to the people of New Jersey," Christie said in a statement. "As a result, I ordered an end to Bret Schundler's service as New Jersey's Education Commissioner and as a member of my administration."


Christie owes a public apology to the Dept of Ed.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | August 27, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse


Liam, I was asking Kevin a hypothetical question.

And I certainly NEVER suggested ANYONE be "muzzled" and frankly I am offended that you would put those words in my mouth.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | August 27, 2010 2:58 PM
.......................

For someone who gets offended so easily , you sure have no trouble demonizing Kevin. You have done so, from the first day that he started posting on here. You called him every name in the book, and you still are trying to paint him as some type of extremist enabler, just because he cautioned against being too eager to restrict free speech. That is what your so called hypothetical was targeted to do, and you threw in "concrete proof", as if it actually existed.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 27, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

"Because a fascist wouldn't have voted for any of that."

Here is the Merriam-Webster Dictionary definition of fascism:

"a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"

Again, you prefer THAT to a Democrat?

You prefer someone who supports:

* centralized autocratic government
* dictatorial leader
* severe economic and social regimentation
* forcible suppression of opposition

Over someone who supports free elections, the U.S. Constitution, and the Bill of Rights?

Seriously?

Posted by: Ethan2010 | August 27, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Ironically, Sen. Reid (D-NV) got it right on the mosque issue. Oh well, even a broken clock / domestic enemy is right twice a day ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 27, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

"As a registered DEMOCRAT, Mr. Enright is one of yours not mine."

Jake, the link you posted where you claimed this was stated, did NOT in fact say that Enright is or even was a Democrat. We called you on that when you posted it, yet you still continue to LIE about it.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | August 27, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Yes.

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 27, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

I am really starting to think that Republicans stand for nothing.

Consider this. Alabama is the fifth most conservative state in the union:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20012413-503544.html

Yet what do we find in Alabama today?

--------------------------
Imagine you come home from work one day to a notice on your front door that you have 45 days to demolish your house, or the city will do it for you. Oh, and you’re paying for it.

This is happening right now in Montgomery, Ala., and here is how it works: The city decides it doesn’t like your property for one reason or another, so it declares it a “public nuisance.” It mails you a notice that you have 45 days to demolish your property, at your expense, or the city will do it for you (and, of course, bill you).

Your tab with the city will constitute a lien on your property, and if you don’t pay it within 30 days (or pay your installments on time; if you owe over $10,000, you can work out a deal to pay back the city for destroying your home over a period of time, with interest), the city can sell your now-vacant land to the highest bidder.

...


The end game in Montgomery, however, is obvious. The city wants to clear and ultimately sell-off the property of lower-income, mostly black Alabamans to higher-income developers, but it can’t do that through the state’s eminent domain law. So it found a backdoor, which also incidentally does not require the city to compensate property owners for their loss, but instead charges them.

http://dailycaller.com/2010/08/26/eminent-domain-by-any-other-name-still-stinks/2/

----------------------

And the kicker?

Defending these demolitions is Todd Strange, Mayor of Montgomery, Alabama, and a Republican. The Conservative Christians of Alabama said prior to the last election that "conservatives see a vote for him as their only chance to save Montgomery from liberal Democrats."

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/08/property-wrongs.html

Posted by: nisleib | August 27, 2010 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Jeez Liam, all I did was ask the guy a freaking question.

I thought you were opposed to muzzling people's speech. And here you are trying to muzzle my genuine and honest question. Thanks a lot hypocrite.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | August 27, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

That last post was in answer of Ethan2010's questions.

P.S. to suekzoo1: I never claimed to have posted a link to Mr. Enright's political affiliation.

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 27, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse


Liam-still:

You should have thought about that before refusing to answer my question to you for two days.

suekzoo1:

As a registered DEMOCRAT, Mr. Enright is one of yours not mine.

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 27, 2010 3:12 PM

...................

You asked me if I had watched some TV show.

I am asking you, about who you are talking about when you said that you might "yet" assassinate them.

Since you clearly are trying to stall for time, and have not denied that you said that, or that you did not mean it, I will let those that should handle it, do so.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 27, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

suekzoo1 - In fact the slasher was a facebook fan of Greg Ball, a NY tea bagger that is anti-immigration.

Posted by: nisleib | August 27, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Jeez Liam, all I did was ask the guy a freaking question.

I thought you were opposed to muzzling people's speech. And here you are trying to muzzle my genuine and honest question. Thanks a lot hypocrite.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | August 27, 2010 3:19 PM

...................

No one has tried to stop you, so spare us your hissy fits. No one has called for you to be banned. I disagree with your position, and I am stating so.

Posted by: Liam-still | August 27, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for answering Jake2.

I am really curious as to your line of thinking, so please permit me one more question.

Can you please explain to me WHY you prefer someone who wants a dictator and someone who is okay with the use of deadly force to suppress opposition versus someone who likes the current American system of elections and civil rights?

It's a curious position for an American to take, imho, and I'd really like to know your thoughts on this.

So please explain in detail WHY you prefer a fascist who supports fascist ideals over a Democrat who supports democracy.

Thank you.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | August 27, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

A question for you readers, any help on this would be greatly appreciated:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/08/will_dems_tea_party_strategy_w.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | August 27, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Great, Liam, I'm glad you decided to weigh in. Congratulations. And thanks again for implying that I support "some panel to determine who should be muzzled." What fking asinine BS.

Now Kevin, I'm sorry for the distraction, but I really am interested in your response to my question.

If you knew for a fact that anti-Muslim rhetoric creates MORE EXTREMISTS from people who would otherwise be moderate, would that bother you?

Posted by: Ethan2010 | August 27, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Jake, Here is your post. If you did not intend to insinuate that the link you provided supported your assertion that Enright was a Democrat, why did you included it?
---

ifthethunderdontgetya:

Did you know that Michael Enright of Brewster, New York, is a REGISTERED DEMOCRAT? He is (was) an employee of the New York City-based Intersections International, a New York-based "global initiative dedicated to promoting justice, reconciliation and peace across lines of faith, culture, ideology, race, class, national borders and other boundaries that divide humanity."

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/the_ground_zero/

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 25, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: suekzoo1 | August 27, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

[nisleib observed: "In fact the slasher was a facebook fan of Greg Ball, a NY tea bagger that is anti-immigration."]

*pffl* Slanderblogger Charles Johnson cites the fact that the Leftist stabber befriended Greg Ball on Facebook. That behavior is merely evidence of his (LGF minted) "Moby" animus. Obviously, the Leftist fakes "friendship" in an attempt at subterfuge.

He also faked "friendship" with the cabbie before the assault. Salon has lots more on the Moby Leftist cabbie-stabber @
http://www.salon.com/news/crime/index.html?story=/politics/war_room/2010/08/25/cab_stabbing_update

In fact, the cabbie-stabber is a Leftist peacenik from the School of Visual Arts in Manhattan.
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/08/26/2010-08-26_maniac_wanted_better_for_everyone.html

"Raised in Brewster, which is in Putnam County, Enright is a senior at the School of Visual Arts and does volunteer work for Intersections International, a group that promotes peace and tolerance."

This "hate" crime vigilantism is a psychotic attempt at the Leftist hoax tactic called a “moby”.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=moby

The term is derived from the name of the liberal musician Moby, who famously suggested in February of 2004 that Left-wing activists engage in this type of subterfuge: “For example, you can go on all the pro-life chat rooms and say you’re an outraged right-wing voter and that you know that George Bush drove an ex-girlfriend to an abortion clinic and paid for her to get an abortion. Then you go to an anti-immigration Web site chat room and ask, ‘What’s all this about George Bush proposing amnesty for illegal aliens?’”

The fact that hate hoaxing (intended to smear your political opponents) is epidemic among Leftists illustrates the nature of this sheep-in-wolves clothing tactic (masquerading as “hate”).
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200408/crying-wolf-fabricated-crimes

Own him, Quislings for Islamo-supremacism. He's all yours.

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | August 27, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

@JakeD2, @ KaddafiDelendaEst

Important message from Senator David Vitter and Rep. John Flemming:
We need to "remain a Christian Nation."

Posted by: MarcfromdowntownNYC | August 27, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Kaddafi,

If it was a "Moby" and he was faking his anger in an attempt to perpetrate a "Leftist hoax" then why is he currently in a mental institution?

Posted by: Ethan2010 | August 27, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Ethan2010:

I'm not sure how much more "detail" I can provide -- assuming arguendo that Angle is even a fascist -- her pro-life, anti-Muslim FASCISM would be leaps and bounds better than Reid's anti-American liberal (what you call) democracy as perpetrated by him and his fellow domestic enemies. Does that help clarify (even though I've said the same thing three different ways now)?

suekzoo1:

I asked ifthethunderdontgetya that question because he/she was trying to blame the REPUBLICANS for Mr. Enright's attack.

MarcfromdowntownNYC:

Thanks for conveying such an important and timely message.

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 27, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Back on the topic of the "Ground Zero" mosque, I commend Sen. Reid (D-NV) for urging those supporters to not build:

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/08/reids-mosque-position-leaves-dems-raw.php

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 27, 2010 4:37 PM | Report abuse

"I asked ifthethunderdontgetya that question because he/she was trying to blame the REPUBLICANS for Mr. Enright's attack."

BS, Jake. You called Enright a Democrat, and provided a link that doesn't support your supposition. I read the thread. I can post more of it if you want.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | August 27, 2010 4:37 PM | Report abuse

suekzoo1 - He got that from the kadafi troll, I called Kadafi on it too, but I'm fairly sure he is naught but a computer spam program from the Club for Growth.

But really sue, it is a right wing talking point, there is rarely any truth to them

Posted by: nisleib | August 27, 2010 4:41 PM | Report abuse

@Ethan2010:

"So Kevin, even if there is concrete evidence that anti-Muslim rhetoric creates MORE EXTREMISTS from people who would otherwise be moderate, it wouldn't matter to you?"

I don't think the issue is what supposedly creates more extremists. One could argue that liberal positions on issues like abortion and gay marriage helps "create" more right wing extremists. Should you modify your positions thusly?

There are obvious reasons not to conflate Islam with Al Qaeda (accuracy, for one), and reasons to avoid inflammatory anti-Islamic rhetoric. "Because it will make me angry and I will become a jihadist, so you had better not offend me!" is not one of them.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | August 27, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

[Ethan2010: "why is he currently in a mental institution?"]

Your query merely begs the question, why aren't the rest of you Quislings for Islamo-supremacism?

For a more scholarly discussion of the phenomenon, see "Unholy Alliance: Radical Islam And the American Left"
http://www.amazon.com/Unholy-Alliance-Radical-Islam-American/dp/0895260263

Sounds crazy because it is... and they are.

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | August 27, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

[nisleib crowed: "I called Kadafi on it too"]

Pernicious nonsense. nisleib was caught lying and publicly pantsed by the cited evidence.

In the end, have you no shame, sir?

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | August 27, 2010 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Ktroll - Okay, provide a link saying the slasher is a registered Democrat.

You can't, because he isn't. The last time you said that you provided a link that said no such thing.

I didn't lie about anything. I think the problem is that you are so used to your heroes lying to you that you don't understand the very concept of honesty.

Posted by: nisleib | August 27, 2010 5:07 PM | Report abuse

@Ethan: If women showing their faces in public angered the jihadists, would I then have second thoughts about women having the right to walk around, all bare-faced?

What jihadist say turns them into jihadist (something that's hard to rely on, anyway) is not the reason to stop or start doing good or bad things, to abridge or to expand rights. Rather, one should support or not support certain things on their own merits, not what distant bullies threaten you with doing.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | August 27, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse

@the slasher:

Enright was going to an art school. I also went to an art school (it's a big part of what turned me into a conservative, so many years ago). While I can understand being driven crazy by art school lefties who demand complete ideological purity, he apparently was already half-way there, at least.

Still, given how the behavior of art school liberals is clearly creating knife-weilding extremists right here in our own country, I'm very troubled and concerned.

No concrete evidence, in this case, but I have my own anecdotal experience to go by. ;)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | August 27, 2010 5:15 PM | Report abuse

[nisleib whined: "Okay, provide a link saying the slasher is a registered Democrat."]

I never stated he was. I cited evidence that he was a particularly psychotic example of a "moby"-- a Leftist agent provocateur. Afterall, we've learned that he volunteered for an organization promoting interfaith understanding, with an emphasis on supporting... the Cordoba House mega-mosque. And we now know the cabbie was against the mosque.

Try harder to avoid tripping all over yourself.

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | August 27, 2010 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Kevin - Come on, liberals don't friend tea party nuts like Greg Ball. You know that.

Posted by: nisleib | August 27, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Enright was attempting a "false flag" operation in an attempt to discredit the mega-mosque opposition. And I'm not the only one drawing that obvious inference.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0810/AntiMuslim_attacker_works_at_proPark51_group.html

He's all your's, Quislings. Own him.

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | August 27, 2010 5:21 PM | Report abuse

suekzoo1:

Post anything you'd like. The fact remains that I asked ifthethunderdontgetya a question (TO WIT "Did you know that Michael Enright of Brewster, New York, is a REGISTERED DEMOCRAT?" note: question mark) because he/she was trying to blame the REPUBLICANS for Mr. Enright's attack.

The link I provided was for what I quoted about Enright being an employee of the New York City-based Intersections International, a New York-based "global initiative dedicated to promoting justice, reconciliation and peace across lines of faith, culture, ideology, race, class, national borders and other boundaries that divide humanity."

Nice try though.

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 27, 2010 5:22 PM | Report abuse

There was once a Democrat Left politician from County Wexford in Ireland named Michael Enright. So you could see how people might get confused.

Is weird, though. Michael Enright was working on trying to get funding for a video about Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, goes to Afghanistan, comes back and starts slashing Muslim cabbies. No history (according to people who knew him) of racism or anti-Muslim feelings.

Very bizarre.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | August 27, 2010 5:24 PM | Report abuse

[nisleib stuttered: "Come on, liberals don't friend tea party nuts like Greg Ball."]

Still riding that silly LGF hobby-horse?

*pffl* Slanderblogger Charles Johnson cites the fact that the Leftist stabber befriended Greg Ball on Facebook. That behavior is merely evidence of his (LGF minted) "Moby" animus. Obviously, the Leftist fakes "friendship" in an attempt at subterfuge.

He also faked "friendship" with the cabbie before the assault. Salon has lots more on the Moby Leftist cabbie-stabber @
http://www.salon.com/news/crime/index.html?story=/politics/war_room/2010/08/25/cab_stabbing_update

Your "evidence" merely demonstrates the converse. But thanks for playing.

buh-bye

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | August 27, 2010 5:24 PM | Report abuse

KaddafiDelendaEst:

Thanks for that link (it won't be long before my question about his voter registration is answered too).

Posted by: JakeD2 | August 27, 2010 5:26 PM | Report abuse

KTroll - You most certainly did say he was a registered Democrat.

Maybe you don't recall because you were cutting and pasting from some other brainless rightwinger.

Or maybe your brain rot has progressed too far for you to remember what you wrote.

I don't care which.

Posted by: nisleib | August 27, 2010 5:31 PM | Report abuse

All of Greg's Quislings for Cordoba House here should apologize to the secular Muslim NY Cabbie and his family for inciting this pro-jihad mosque vigilantee to "Moby" violence.

It's time to take a little ownership for your orchestrated Islamo-supremacist advocacy campaign.

Petards... hoist!

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | August 27, 2010 5:32 PM | Report abuse

[nisleib lied; "You most certainly did say he was a registered Democrat."]

Then you should have no trouble citing where and when.

Don't you think your time would be more productively spent demonstrating your sincere sorrow for participating in Greg's orchestrated campaign to incite Enright to anti-mosque violence?

Have you no shame, sir?

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | August 27, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

KaddafiDelendaEst - You need therapy.

Seriously. Your tinfoil hat must be restricting the flow of blood to your brain. If you think that a guy with a diary full of (supposedly) anti Muslim writings, who befriends an anti immigration tea party nut, is now a liberal because of where he volunteers, you have a screw loose.

Posted by: nisleib | August 27, 2010 5:37 PM | Report abuse

[nisleib : "You need therapy."]

Physician, heal thyself.

But I accept your lack of competent rejoinder (or cited evidence) as an absolute admission of your intellectual bankruptcy.

Grade: F (miserable failure)

/dismissed

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | August 27, 2010 5:46 PM | Report abuse

KaddafiDelendaEst - Evidence? You've yet to provide any evidence to your nutso conspiracy nonsense.

Why am I even bothering? I'm engaged in a battle of wits with a paraplegic unarmed smear artist.

Posted by: nisleib | August 27, 2010 5:51 PM | Report abuse

[nisleib lied: "Evidence? You've yet to provide any evidence"]

The evidence is cited above at length for any reader to observe. If you want to play Baghdad-Bob denial Pokemon, that's your business.

But I accept your feeble cowering in unassailable ignorance as an admission of intellectual bankruptcy.

Grade: F- (miserable failure)

/checkmate

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | August 28, 2010 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Liam-still, my dear friend JakeD wanted me to let you know that he would consider assassinating anyone who becomes as bad as Hitler (hopefully, that answers your questions).

Posted by: clawrence12 | August 28, 2010 11:45 PM | Report abuse

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