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Confronting Islamophobic conspiracy theories

Adam Serwer is a staff writer for The American Prospect, where he writes his own blog.

Frank Gaffney is part of a group of conservatives who have been trying to mainstream the conspiracy theory that the United States is on the verge of a stealth Islamist takeover, a group that has recruited at least one high-profile convert in former House Speaker Newt Gingrich. A couple of days ago he appeared on Anderson Cooper's show on CNN across from Former Pakistani Ambassador to the United Kingdom, Akbar Ahmed, who matter-of-factly explained that an Islamic takeover of the United States was a numerical impossibility. The Anti-Defamation League's Abraham Foxman once described these theories as "nonsense."

The absurdity of this claim hasn't prevented Gaffney and others from being treated as "experts" on the subject. As Rachel Slajda reported, Gaffney recently testified as an "expert" in a court proceeding on behalf of opponents of a proposed mosque in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, which is apparently also way too close to Ground Zero. Gaffney testified that the mosque was likely part of the grand plot to institute Taliban-style sharia in the United States. If the accusation sounds familiar, it's because it's the same accusation flung at the builders of the proposed Islamic community center in Manhattan, and pretty much every where else in the United States there's opposition to building a mosque. Unsurprisingly, the Murfreesboro site was the target of vandalism and potential arson. If you actually believe the people around you are planning to destroy the United States, doing something violent may not seem irrational. According to the Justice Department, there have been eight investigations of possible land use discrimination against Muslims under the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act since a community board in Manhattan approved the construction of the Park51 project -- almost as many as all the cases in the previous decade combined.

It's also not like a belief in a widespread "stealth jihad" being undertaken by large numbers of American Muslims is Gaffney's only conspiracy theory -- he's previously alleged that the logo of the Missile Defense Agency resembled a crescent and was a "clear act of submission to sharia by President Obama," who Gaffney believes "may still be" a Muslim.

Would that Gaffney's influence was limited to a few paranoid folks in a Tennessee courtroom. In fact, Gaffney along with Andrew McCarthy, a former federal prosecutor who believes Obama was born a "dual citizen of Kenya and the U.S." and David Yerushalmi, an "expert" on sharia who once argued in favor of criminalizing Islam, authored a national security report outlining the danger of "radical Muslims...using Islamic law to subvert the United States," and presented it to Reps Michelle Bachmann and Pete Hoekstra. The latter is the ranking Republican on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. These are the kind of people actual Republican members of Congress are taking advice from, and it foreshadows a disproportionate focus on this kind of meaningless culture-war counterterrorism should Republicans retake the House in November.

While Akhbar Ahmed may have made Gaffney look paranoid and foolish on CNN, the frustrating reality is that more and more conservatives are finding his particular brand of paranoid Islamophobia persuasive.

By Adam Serwer  | September 30, 2010; 12:01 PM ET
Categories:  Foreign policy and national security  
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Next: Can Harry Reid make Sharron Angle's "extremism" matter to people?

Comments

Greg,

You have a self admitted arsonist, who claims that he is here to try a burn down your place. What are you going to do, to stop him from doing so?

.................

I took down Weigel, and changed Cillizza's comments to nothing more than a Twitter feed, so it can't hurt to try it again.

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 30, 2010 11:31 AM |

Posted by: Liam-still | September 30, 2010 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Just because you're paranoid does not mean they aren't out to get you ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 30, 2010 12:07 PM | Report abuse

"Arsonist" = actual fire (and libel, since it's not true)

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 30, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Greg - Jake is trying to kill your blog, he's admited it.

Are you going to do anything about it?

Posted by: nisleib | September 30, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

All, stay tuned about Jake. Thanks for your patience.

Posted by: Greg Sargent | September 30, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Someone take a look what is going on in the Netherlands - the muslims are approacing 50% of the populuation


Also Belgium has a large population.


__________________________

Here in the US, common sense can PREVAIL -

They don't need the mosque down at Ground Zero - they can easily back off.


No one is telling them NOT to worship in New York City - one person said there are over a hundred mosques in New York.


There are mosques in Manhattan -


No one is telling the muslims to convert either.


So individual rights are not really the issue here - it is the placement of one building that is too close to a terrorist incident.


The liberals are not being honest - if the terrorist attack had been from Maoists Peruvians - no one would be saying anything about a mosque.


----------------------

Instead - the liberals NOW appear to always want a WORD to vent their hate - and to try to INTIMIDATE PEOPLE INTO REMAINING SILENT.


This time RACIST doesn't work - so the liberals are trying "islamophobe"


It is an effort to limit someone's Civil Rights - if someone tried to stop a black from voting - intimidate that person - the liberals would complain -


But to INTIMIDATE a person into not exercising their Freedom of Speech - that HAS to be a civil rights violation too.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Greg - As long as you are going to look into Jake can you please, pretty please, look into Savetherainforest too?

His nonsense posts are just as bad, or worse, than Jake's and he formats like a three year old finger paints.

Posted by: nisleib | September 30, 2010 12:21 PM | Report abuse

What is going on with Jake?

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 12:21 PM | Report abuse

I wonder if there isn't a subtle upside to declaring nutjobs like Gaffney "experts". Couldn't support by the likes of him be the kiss of political death for Islamophobia?

Prolly too subtle for some folks, unfortunately.

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | September 30, 2010 12:26 PM | Report abuse

I believe the liberals have pretty much lost their minds over the past 10 years.

IN the 90s, you didn't hear liberals making the case that if someone did not agree with them, that person was somehow inferior.

"On the wrong side of history", rednecks - looking down at religion - all this has become the MOTIVATIONS behind the liberals and the democrats.

Honestly, that wasn't there in the 80s and 90s.

Something happened - the 2000 Florida recount and the Iraq war - but really- the deterioration has been stark.


How the talk of the democrats went from "we want to be Post-racial" to "You are a racist" attacks is unbelievable.

These kinds of issues used to be talking about in a sort of - zone outside of partisan politics - NOW everything is hyper-partisan.


Taking an issue which really is not partisan - and turning it into a partisan -attack issue - that has become ridiculous.

Obama BLEW IT - all he had to do was say there is a First Amendment - but it is insensitive to build the mosque there - and make arrangements to have them move.


It is pretty simple - now all the democrats feel an obligation to back up Obama in his incredibly STUPID position.


I tell you - New York is in play right now.


You can thank Obama for that one.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 12:36 PM | Report abuse

SaveTheRainforest:

Careful, or DHS is going to get you for "aiding and abetting a blog terrorist". It's right there in U.S.C. Annotated ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 30, 2010 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Folks - Jake is wrong on several counts. He didn't take down Weigel (unless he's Tucker's alter ego).

The Fix's comments section is alive and healthy. Yes, there was a shift to a new moderated format which largely drove away those interested simply in sniping. This included 37th&O Street (aka StRF), but also some on the left (BroadwayJoe, ChrisFox8). Happily, some newer conservative voices are emerging at the Fix.

I tend to lurk here, but there's an interesting cast of characters in the comments section. As long as no one is trying to spam the comments section, 'sallright.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | September 30, 2010 12:40 PM | Report abuse

I hate to even dignify the idiocy of claiming that the Netherlands is 50% Muslim, but the radical lefty BBC reports that - wait for it - the Netherlands is 5.8% Muslim.

My guess is that savetherainforest's glasses are really dirty, and he can't see decimal points well on on his crappy old computer.

Posted by: RalfW | September 30, 2010 12:43 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to chime in with my support for doing something about the constant spam from "SaveTheRainforest." I suggest implementing the two-inch rule that Krugman has imposed on the comments to his blog.

Posted by: QuiteAlarmed | September 30, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

@Alarmed - Not to mention a no abuse rule.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | September 30, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

QuiteAlarmed:

There already is a 3,000 character limit!

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 30, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

"Andrew McCarthy, a former federal prosecutor who believes Obama was born a "dual citizen of Kenya and the U.S." "

Just curious, are you asserting that he was not? If so, your basis?

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 30, 2010 12:47 PM | Report abuse

SaveTheRainforest:

Keep up the good fight!

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 30, 2010 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Sadly, there's no limit on how many of those characters can be carriage returns...

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | September 30, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Strange, I can't get to pollster.com any longer. Huffingtonpost/pollster tab hijacks my browser. And this is after I've cleared all cache and cookies.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 30, 2010 12:53 PM | Report abuse

OK great, it's happening on both my browsers now, both Firefox and IE are being hijacked by Huffington Posts's pollster tab when trying to access pollster.com.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 30, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse

I hate to ask, but is anyone else able to get to pollster.com any longer or have they somehow just hijacked my domain or something?

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 30, 2010 12:57 PM | Report abuse

@mike,

I think if you scroll down on the page you will see the lastest polls (right hand side). All the same stuff (I think) but formatted differently. I look at pollster daily so I was a bit alarmed too. I liked the old format better.

You know Huffington & pollster merged, right?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Fox News Rupert Murdoch says to Congress:
'It is nonsense to talk of expelling 12 million people,' Murdoch said [speaking of the millions of people who are illegally residing in the U.S.]

“Not only is it impractical, it is cost prohibitive.”

Murdoch cited a study that shows a path to legalization would contribute about $1.5 trillion to the gross domestic product over the next decade.

Murdoch said: “I have no problem in supporting what I’m saying today on Fox News, nor would the great number of commentators on Fox News.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0910/42944.html#ixzz11282IlWx


Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 1:06 PM | Report abuse

I didn't know they merged. I guess that explains it. It happened today. Shame.

Anyways, everyone see the post John Cole has up regarding the WSJ news on McDonnalds wanting to drop insurance? It's worth the read and hopefully gets the attention it deserves.

http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/09/30/id-rather-have-a-plan-on-the-new-health-exchanges-than-mcdonalds-health-insurance-any-day-of-the-week/#comments

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 30, 2010 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Mike - Benen has a good piece up on the McDonalds non-story too.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_09/025922.php

Posted by: nisleib | September 30, 2010 1:11 PM | Report abuse

nisleib, what Balloon Juice did was highlight the savings employees would receive if they were forced to go into the insurance pool. They would receive superior insurance coverage for a lower cost.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 30, 2010 1:15 PM | Report abuse

@Greg:

"All, stay tuned about Jake. Thanks for your patience."

What about Save the Spam Forest? Just because he hasn't admitted to being a saboteur doesn't mean he ain't one. ;)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | September 30, 2010 1:17 PM | Report abuse

But yeah, I read the benen piece. Funny how McDonnalds has come out with a statement claiming the WSJ piece is completely false.

Who woulda guessed. lol

Wonder how long until Murdoch manages to drag that name into a ditch as Forbes is managing to do with his name brand.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 30, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

I hope all of you are sitting down; I'm about to shock the heck out of you.

Apparently there is ANOTHER web site on the internets that is similar to LinkedIn that Christine O'Donnell posted the same information to.

"But now a new website has surfaced listing the same erroneous biographical information. And a website spokesman claims that O'Donnell entered the data herself."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/30/second-website-surfaces-w_n_745231.html

I'm shocked!

Posted by: nisleib | September 30, 2010 1:20 PM | Report abuse

I wonder what she (and her followers) will say now:

Yesterday we learned -- or she claimed -- that an impostor had, years ago, plotted to build a phony Linkedin profile for her which included all correct information, albeit with seriously padded educational info, friended people she knows and vice versa, all to damage her during this political campaign.

Now the same impostor has apparently struck again on zoominfo.com. And this time the impostor was able to get O'Donnell herself to 'claim' and confirm the same padded educational info, in some sort of plan -- equal parts nefarious and ingenious -- to implicate her in serial bamboozling. And by 'padded', I mean in the sense of saying you went to school at places you didn't.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/09/the_non-mystery_deepens.php?ref=fpblg

Posted by: pragmaticstill | September 30, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Guess that settles that. O'Donnell has been officially caught in the act, again.

Now what...

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 30, 2010 1:25 PM | Report abuse

As far as I am aware, there is no dispute that Obama was born a dual citizen.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/does_barack_obama_have_kenyan_citizenship.html

If that is true, how acceptance of that fact rather than rejection of it evidence of being a paranoid crackpot, as Mr. Serwer suggests?

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 30, 2010 1:25 PM | Report abuse

One dhimmicrat sheeple talking to another dhimmicrat sheeple says "Sure I follow the herd-not out of brainless obedience mind you, but out of a deep and abiding respect for the concept of community.

You will all make excellent halal meat.

Posted by: LoneWolf1 | September 30, 2010 1:26 PM | Report abuse

This is what Karl Rove was talking about when he said she had some problems in her background and was unelectable. The Delaware GOP had probably done oppostion research on her and knew most or all of this stuff. And told Rove.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Well at least O'Donnell can still be proud of founding and being President of SALT, right? What is that? Oh, poo.

"IRS documents reviewed by The Associated Press show the group -- Savior's Alliance for Lifting the Truth -- is on a list of organizations threatened with revocation of its nonprofit status next month because it has not filed returns for three consecutive years."

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/09/ap-odonnells-anti-sex-evangelism-group-could-lose-tax-exempt-status.php

Posted by: nisleib | September 30, 2010 1:27 PM | Report abuse

pragmaticstill:

You probably think the IRS audit / mix-up was sheer coincidence too?

Kevin_Willis:

Et tu, Brutus?

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 30, 2010 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Paranoid crackpots believe was born in Kenya and/or is also an Indonesian citizen and/or is the anti-Christ and/or is still a secret Muslim.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 30, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

@nisleib: "But now a new website has surfaced listing the same erroneous biographical information. And a website spokesman claims that O'Donnell entered the data herself."

Why, with friends like Christine O'Donnell, who needs enemies?

Cuz, you know, clawrence said that to me, and . . . never mind.

I think we're going to find that O'Donnell or someone representing her (which she also denied, so that doesn't get her off the hook) entered the stuff for LinkedIn, too. And that there's a paper resume or bit of promotional fluff that says the same stuff.

But, of course, it would be wrong to tell a little white lie to save the lives of innocent children.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | September 30, 2010 1:32 PM | Report abuse

@Greg....here is another interesting post from JakeD

"(that makes my job here even easier ; )"

His JOB here. Wow it doesn't really take a conspiratorialist to wonder what his JOB is or who he works for now does it.

AGAIN GREG....PLEASE HELP US!!!

Can we simply get the posters names placed at the head of each comment. That way you don't have to referee who gets to stay and who has to leave. You don't have to worry about expelling someone only to have them come back with a different IP or email addy.

This blog has many wonderful posters who are smart enough to scroll by people who are simply bent on the destruction of the blog or simply post the same Johnny one note rants.

I seriously believe this is not about left or right...I vehemently disagree with QB, Scott..and I disagree with other like Brigade, Kevin, and tao...but each of those posters..despite being on the polar opposite of the spectrum from we on the left DO bring some thought with their posts.

We can easily figure out who the loons are and scroll past saving us valuable time if you would simply place the posters names at the head of their comments. No suppression of speech involved, just giving us a chance to determine whose opinions we believe are worth reading...much as we do each day when we select which blogs to read and participate.

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 30, 2010 1:32 PM | Report abuse

From the website the nickel references:

The Rocky Mountain News did in fact run an online article asserting that Barack Obama holds both American and Kenyan citizenship. The article was incorrect, and the paper removed the item from the article and ran a correction. The paper's editor, John Temple, formally apologized for the error in an Aug. 15, 2007, column. Neither the correction nor the apology has prevented the column from circulating across the Internet as part of the latest set of baseless rumors that Obama is ineligible to run for president.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/does_barack_obama_have_kenyan_citizenship.html

Posted by: pragmaticstill | September 30, 2010 1:34 PM | Report abuse

@pragmaticstill: no doubt the same person who "planted" the birth certificate and birth announcements in Hawaii. . .

@quarterback: don't get your point. He doesn't hold dual citizenship. If you believe he does, you're a paranoid crackpot! Or at least paranoid. . .

Posted by: Michigoose | September 30, 2010 1:34 PM | Report abuse

@JakeD2: "Et tu, Brutus?"

Only if you're also posting a STRFU. I disagree with a lot of stuff, and I really don't like the "I'm gonna try to shut down this blog" stuff, but even so, I'm not trying to get you banned.

But the signal-to-noise ratio (meant in the most literal sense) of STRFU is just too high for me. It's a completely self-serving thing.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | September 30, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

FairlingtonBlade at 12:40 PM


The liberals destroyed the Fix

All one has to do is look at the archives to compare what happened then, vs. now.

Unbelievable the extent of the lies.


The pattern is the same - the liberals start name-calling - demanding that certain people be silenced - based on views - not on conduct.


The number of liberal comments STILL far exceeds conservative comments.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 1:37 PM | Report abuse

pragmatic apparently doesn't realize there is a difference between "was born" and "is." From the article:

"In other words, at the time of his birth, Barack Obama Jr. was both a U.S. citizen (by virtue of being born in Hawaii) and a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (or the UKC) by virtue of being born to a father who was a citizen of the UKC."

Try reading more carefully.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 30, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Re: Dual Citizenship.

On the link, it says plain as day, in big letters:

He held both U.S. and Kenyan citizenship as a child, but lost his Kenyan citizenship automatically on his 23rd birthday.

Meaning that he was indeed born with dual citizenship. Not the only person this has ever happened to. But lost it automatically on his 23rd birthday. So he's not currently a dual citizen of Kenya and the U.S.

Now, don't get me started on what a tragedy that someone with a Kenyan father (who was, technically, a citizen of the UKC at Obama's birth) could become President of the United States. Why, that's seems to suggest that almost anybody could work hard and become president in America. What a horrible message to be sending the children. /snark

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | September 30, 2010 1:41 PM | Report abuse

"you're a paranoid crackpot! Or at least paranoid. . ."

Can I cast a vote for both. :-)

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 30, 2010 1:42 PM | Report abuse

michigoose apparently also doesn't know the difference between "was born" and "is."

There isn't a dispute that Obama was born a dual citizen. That must be shocking to you.

But it makes you the crackpot, not me or Gaffney.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 30, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

SaveTheRainforest:

Don't blame the liberals for bringing down The Fix, any more than you can "blame" the burning jet fuel for weakening the structural components of the WTC towers. They can't help but to "hate" the truth.

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 30, 2010 1:46 PM | Report abuse

No Q.B. you are the crackpot. If you had focused on ISSUES you have something to debate...when you focus on PAST TENSE irrelevancies it makes you a crackpot!!!

I know...now join your Siamese twin Scott and begin to parse the meaning of past tense present tense etc. It's sad Q.B. but you have sunk to the level of crackpot. Pretty soon you'll be joining the anti social Jake in defending Christine O'Donnell and point out that all these questions about her veracity are just a "lamestream" media attack.

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 30, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Greg

The name-calling from the liberals has begun again.


I think the problem with the Fix was there was a decision made by Chris NOT to moderate the comments section for over a year.


That led to a "free-for-all" situation - there were no rules being enforced.

The hostile behavior was out of control - which I have to point out - invites fighting. I believe the conservatives have been holding-back - the conservatives are the ones who have been avoiding the fights.

The hostile behavior has become personal. Some liberal posters start off right away going after other posters - instead of discussing the topics.


Then the liberals COMPLAIN when the conversation is not going their way - meaning a discussion about how horrible the people are on the other side - how they are rednecks, clinging to their religion, and how morally inferior they really are. The problem appears to be that the echo chamber has a hole in it.


The VERY EXISTENCE of opposing view appears to be what bothers them most - not anything else.


The calls for banning - "doing something" - that doesn't help anything.

I say - anyone CREATING A HOSTILE ATMOSPHERE should be banned. That means all the liberals who causing trouble on this blog.


.


Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 1:49 PM | Report abuse

"Can I cast a vote for both. :-)"

Well, let's put it this way, there isn't a dispute that Obama was a citizen of the UK and Kenya at birth.

So, if you Obamites claim he wasn't a dual citizen at birth, that would leave only one alternative . . . .

What we have here is a liberal blogger too eager to toss around accusations of paranoia and crackpotdom. So eager that he treated as crackpot material what is actually an undisputed fact, albeit one liberals don't like to think about.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 30, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

"They can't help but to "hate" the truth."

This from the guy who claims there is no "lie" in "lies?"

After the last few days of you fluffing Christine "the liar" O'Donnell you'll have to excuse me if I don't put much credence on your reality impaired version of the truth.

Besides, these days the truth and facts have a well known liberal bias.

Posted by: nisleib | September 30, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

@STRF: "I say - anyone CREATING A HOSTILE ATMOSPHERE should be banned. That means all the liberals who causing trouble on this blog."

Folks insisting in typing long phrases in ALL CAPs in every post, and double- and triple-spacing between paragraphs, and launching into constant, brain-bending non-sequiturs should be the first to go.

Do the right think STRF, and volunteer. /snark

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | September 30, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Kevin_Willis:

You've thrown me under the bus as a "saboteur" (and are getting ready to push SaveTheForest under too ; )

TO ALL THE BLOG TERRORISTS WHO REMAIN:

Fight and you may be banned. Run, and you'll live ... at least a while. And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willin' to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our typing, but they'll never take ... OUR FREEDOM!

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 30, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

All, check out Reid's latest ad against Sharron Angle, brutal stuff:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/09/reid_campaign_shifts_message_o.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | September 30, 2010 1:56 PM | Report abuse

STRF wrote: The calls for banning - "doing something" - that doesn't help anything.

I say - anyone CREATING A HOSTILE ATMOSPHERE should be banned. That means all the liberals who causing trouble on this blog.
--------------------------------
Bwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!

STRF can feel the blog owner turning his eyes upon STRF, and saying "why not block this guy? Everyone wants him gone". Cillizza on the Fix blocked him and finally got rid of him.

STRF can feel it coming. So, up goes the defense. STRF says: "It ain't me! I don't understand the rules! It's all of them liberals. Ban them. Don't ban me!"

Bwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Didn't work on the Fix, but will it work now? Could STRF actually get everyone else banned but himself?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Sharron Angle is a LUNATIC.

Her latest tweet c/o TPM:

@HarryReid voted to use your money to pay for Vi@gr@ for child molesters & rapists. No, seriously

She is just immoral.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | September 30, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

ruk, sorry, but it wasn't me who brought up citizenship. It was Mr. Serwer.

His comment about it and those of you liberal sheep commenters indicates that you not only don't know the basic facts but that you consider people who do crackpots. Tsk tsk.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 30, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

What is it with whacko conspiracy theorists on the right looking like evil cartoon villains.

Gaffney looks like a nut with that evil eyebrow.

Krauthammer looks like some evil vampire or something.

You got Bolton who looks like some angry Swedish Muppet chef.

Kristol looks like the joker without make-up on.

George Will is the super nerd turned evil conspirator who will defeat you with walls of twisted logic that come out too quick to look up all the facts behind them.

It's like the Legion of Doom.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 30, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

STRF Are you serious? You post in the rudest manner possible. You have been called out for being an inconsiderate arsehole by posters from the left and from the right. And you say such bs as

"The VERY EXISTENCE of opposing view appears to be what bothers them most - not anything else."

No the VERY EXISTENCE of opposing views does not bother us at all. AGAIN I REPEAT SPAM THE RAIN FOREST...

I do not speak for everybody, but I believe a large majority here are very pleased that Kevin posts from the Republican view...Brigade attempts objectivity...perhaps attempts is the operative word..snark alert :-) Scott and Q.B. believe what they post and try to bring an opposing viewpoint...tao does so with wit...I'm sure I'm leaving out somebody but WE DO HAVE RESPECTED POSTERS FROM THE RIGHT!

We disrespect you STRF because of your rude formatting and Obama derangement syndrome. We disrespect Joke because he is simply out to wreck our meeting place.
We disrespect Skipper because he pulls crap like asking for my address so he can come and teach me a lesson...ah yes violence is always the answer for the right wing loons...yeah bring it on..I'm a badarse...

Greg I don't know what you did to piss off Chris Cilizza...but he has sent the dregs of the internet over here to infect your blog.

In fairness however we did also pick up 12BarBlues, Brigade and a few other sane posters.

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 30, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

"What we have here is a liberal blogger too eager to toss around accusations of paranoia and crackpotdom.'

Is that kind of like the moron D'Souza who claimed Obama kept saying BRITISH Petroleum instead of BP because of Obama's alleged anti colonial views...when a review of the videotape proves that NO...Obama said BP..D'Souza is either too lazy or too stupid to fact check his work.

BTW if you go to the videotape it was Sister Sarah who used the term BRITISH Petroleum after the spill. Perhaps she is the true anti colonialist. Naahhh just kidding Sister Sarah not even educated enough or nuanced enough to know what an anti-colonialist viewpoint means.

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 30, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

So Greg, can we expect a correction indicating that Obama in fact was born a dual citizen?

Inquring minds do want to know whether this blog actually disputes that fact.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 30, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

See, much like Kevin_W, I don't have a problem with the Prez being born with dual citizenship (as did my husband, for that matter, born in W. Germany while his Dad was serving in the USAF). See, he GAVE THE KENYAN CITIZENSHIP UP when he came of age to do so. There's no shocker there, only the paranoia of the right that doesn't believe that someone born on US soil (like, oh, say, the Panama Canal Zone, or a USAF base, or Hawaii) is an American citizen.

Posted by: Michigoose | September 30, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Jake

I said two things - one was the attitude of the liberals - who when told to knock it off, never did.


The other was the lack of rules at the Fix. Why can't the rules be spelled out.


If a poster is "out of bounds" - tell them and try to get the adjustments. WHY does banning even have to be an option?


I don't see the liberals calling for the banning of other liberals - no matter what goes on. It is discrimination.


Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Q.B. I get you. You were that nerdy kid who enjoyed tricking everybody with your riddles...like..

If a plane crashes exactly on the border between Canada and the U.S. where do they bury the survivors...

They don't bury survivors....ha ha ha...

We get it Q.B...you and Scott are good with word games...Obama IS not a dual citizen..which is clearly the implication...at least it confuses many of the teabaggers who swallow this pablum.
He WAS a citizen.

Q.B. you must realize who you resemble with this particular word game...I mean soon you're going to be parsing what the meaning of is..is...but I believe that one's already been done...and YES by a Democrat President!!! Oh the horrors.

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 30, 2010 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Greg - Please listen to rukidding7 @ 1:59 and Kevin @ 1:17.

We rather like having rational right wingers to exchange ideas with. But SaveTheRainForest is not rational. STRF often spams the exact same nonsensical comment in multiple threads, has the reading comprehension skills of a 6 year old, formats like a drunk chipmunk and is here to destroy our community.

Please Greg, this isn't a left or right thing. It really isn't.

Posted by: nisleib | September 30, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

"Is that kind of like the moron D'Souza . . .."

So you are calling Adam a moron as well as a crackpot?

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 30, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

rukidding7 at 1:32 PM


There are many people who think your postings of devoid of intelligent thought as well.

Just the fact that you constantly profess a desire to close off your mind to opposing views indicates second-rate thinking.


The idea that you are encouraging others to follow you into your closed echo-chamber is a matter of concern.


Forget the idea that your party committed itself to being post-partisan and bipartisan. THAT is what the country voted for, not your left-wing agenda.


Even Fire Dog Lake apparently is shutting off moderate voices now. The Daily Kos two years ago asked the Hillary people to leave.


This is no way to conduct a democracy.


But to cloak yourself that your comments are "thoughtful" and the comments with which you do not agree are not "thoughtful" is a complete joke. You are fooling yourself.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Why, oh why, STRF, do so many posters (left and right) on every blog want you gone? Have you ever seriously sat yourself down and thought about that?

Could it be your formatting? Could it be the length of your posts? Could it be the mindless repetition of the same posts?

Nah, STRF says. It can't be THOSE things. It's because I make too much sense.

Bwahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Kevin_Willis at 1:52 PM

That is my Freedom of Expression.


Did you ever complain about e. e. cummings.


Should ALL the works of e. e. cummings be BANNED because you don't like his punctuation?

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

How pathetic, ruk.

"Q.B. I get you. You were that nerdy kid who enjoyed tricking everybody with your riddles...like.."

Wasn't me trying to trick anyone. It was Adam, by suggesting only a paranoid crackpot could believe BO was born a dual citizen. You happy with the factual inaccuracy in his post? Especially since he is using it to call people crackpots?

"We get it Q.B...you and Scott are good with word games..."

I realize that basic English is a bit of a puzzle to you, but "buck up," as they say. (You make this too easy.)

"Q.B. you must realize who you resemble with this particular word game...I mean soon you're going to be parsing what the meaning of is..is..."

Hardly. I'm the only one who is standing up to say "is" means "is" and not "was born." You and Adam are the Parsenists. (Oh I hope Liam would be proud.)

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 30, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Watch out, STRF, Greg's turning his evil eye on you. Why not block this idiot, Greg says. Cillizza did it.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Greg

The people who are expressing a lack of tolerance of opposing views should be banned.

12Bar has been coming on the blog almost everyday - complaining about other posters.


And now everyone wants to form a LIBERAL MOB AND LYNCH THE CONSERVATIVE POSTERS.


This is the new LYNCH MOB.


First, the democrats in the South allowed the KKK to go out and LYNCH - and many of the democrats participated.


NOT much has changed - the democrats have just changed WHO THEY HATE.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

STRF is the centerpiece in the new Civil Right Struggle. The Struggle for STRF to plop himself on any blog he desires and dominate it.

And why?--just ask him. Because HE, and he alone, is the Standard Bearer for the Conservative Movement. If he doesn't get to post his repetitive, boring, monotonous, duplicated and LENGTHY posts of 4 or 5 inches (or more), 24/7, the Conservative Movement will be harmed.

He's like the Don Quixote of the right.

Bwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Liberals have posted MORE on this thread than conservatives.

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 30, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

@SaveTheRainForests: "Did you ever complain about e. e. cummings."

Constantly. I also have urged Greg, repeatedly, to make sure that e.e. cummings can never post to this blog. And, so far, my campaign has been a rousing success!

I think you're a poseur, not serious, and conducting your own personal thought/social experiments in the comments section, and it's irritating. I may be wrong, but I don't think it's consistent with the atmosphere, and if this were my blog (and it's not), I'd ban you. Or I'd design a system that allowed commenters to filter people the think degrade the conversation, so the actual comment dialog would be self-selecting, which would be the most democratic solution. But I don't think Greg Sargent is personally coding the WaPo website. ;)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | September 30, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

I must insist that James Joyce AND Walt Whitman be banned also. Insist, I say!

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 30, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

The problem that Mr Serwer has with his contention is that it is belied by the words and deeds of muslims themselves.

It is very interesting that Mr Serwer castigates folks like Gaffney for their views but ignores, for example, the actions of groups like CAIR.

Mr Serwer's essay is little more than stylized, intellectual denial. Engaging in one sided "reporting" while hurling school yard names simply doesn't pass muster as valid analysis.

the Muslims have had nine long years to prove that what Mr Bush said about the faith is correct. But instead of behaving as a religion of peace they have slaughtered people with abandon.

It is not extreme to view this murderous theology as a threat to the American way of life Mr Serwer. It is simple prudence.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | September 30, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

@qb: While James Joyce, admittedly, rambles on for pages upon pages in a bizarre stream of consciousness dialog that is difficult to follow (much like STRF), I find Walt Whitman quite pithy. Pithy, I say! Ban not the Walt!

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | September 30, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

skipsailing,

To me, this is yet another example of one of the main themes in my criticism of contemporary liberalism:

It is simplistic. Liberals simply do not or cannot deal with complexity or nuance. And they adopt simplistic, reductionist arguments.

Mass divorce has not broken out in Massacheusetts? See, "gay marriage" won't hurt anything.

Laffer Curve? Surely you jest. Lower rates always produce less revenue.

Muslims are a small percentage (now) of the population? See, concern over jihad and sharia are loony.

Liberalism is a simpleton's ideology.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 30, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Kevin,

Hmm, but my phone book is pithy, too, as someone sorta said. But, okay, compromise? Lincoln in but Song out?

No, I'm guessing you need the Song. Okay, if it's important to you. But I want no objections to Chaucer.

Yawp!

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 30, 2010 3:53 PM | Report abuse

I have to agree, sadly, with your contention QB1.

It also explains the absolutism in their view of opposing view points. to the liberals their "solutions" are the only valid ones. Raising doubts, reviewing performance, offering alternatives are, in their minds, simply expressions of desire to do nothing.

we see this repeatedly in the health care issue. If we aren't in support of Obama's "reform" then we must be in favor of letting people die on the streets.

it is a sad, sad thing to watch. I'm sure there is some deepseated psychological explanation. I'll have to break out my copy of Hoffer's "The True Believer" and do a little research.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | September 30, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse


@Greg:

"All, stay tuned about Jake. Thanks for your patience."

What about Save the Spam Forest? Just because he hasn't admitted to being a saboteur doesn't mean he ain't one. ;)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | September 30, 2010 1:17 PM
..................

Soon after they both showed up on Plumline, they engaged in a little bragging about how they had both pulled of a coup, by vandalizing the previous site they had both posted on. They indicated then, that they were going to do the same thing to Plumline.

This morning: JakeD2 openly stated that is what he intends to do.

James Joyce never posts on Plumline. He prefers to use his own Facebook page.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 30, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse


@Greg:

"All, stay tuned about Jake. Thanks for your patience."

What about Save the Spam Forest? Just because he hasn't admitted to being a saboteur doesn't mean he ain't one. ;)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | September 30, 2010 1:17 PM
..................

Soon after they both showed up on Plumline, they engaged in a little bragging about how they had both pulled of a coup, by vandalizing the previous site they had both posted on. They indicated then, that they were going to do the same thing to Plumline.

This morning: JakeD2 openly stated that is what he intends to do.

James Joyce never posts on Plumline. He prefers to use his own Facebook page.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 30, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Yes. Please do something about these folks trying to, and succeeding at the moment, ruin this blog.

Posted by: michiganmaine | September 30, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

I found one interesting thing:
"All active mass movements strive, therefore, to interpose a fact proof screen between the faithful and the realities of the world. They do this by claiming that the ultimate and absolute truth is already embodied in their doctrine and there is no truth or certitude outside it. the facts on which the true believer bases his conclusions must not be dervied from his exerpience or observations but from holy writ."

Eric Hoffer,

The True Believer

Posted by: skipsailing28 | September 30, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Eric Hoffer described both The Party Movement, and the Glenn Beck Cult perfectly.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 30, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

I think what was happening in Europe ~ was that politicians desperate not to appear 'racist' would rather overturn some rights and freedoms ~ to meet Muslims demands. The same laws they practise in the Islamic world ~ they see no natural barrier to having them implemented in Europe.

This is the problem ~ this is not like these are 'bad' people ~ just people who think it normal to live under a religious theocracy ~ preferably theirs.

This was not even subversive for the most part ~ although there was some* underhanded political action ~ for Shari'a ends ~ Muslims leaders like CAIR in Europe, were openly asking for Shari'a law to be integrated into UK and other EU laws.

UK Channel 4 Docu*: Britain's Islamic Republic
http://www.mefeedia.com/watch/29535206

Everyone has seen the street radicals with the Islam signs ~ these are not them. The problem was that Europe doesn't have this wall of a constitution ~ that bars the making of religious laws. And these guys know that ~ so that the whole multicultural thing ~ has turned into a battle of cultures.

Muslims feel strongly about their religious beliefs and feel their laws [the Shari'a] are perfect to run society and the majority of the rest are saying ~ are you kidding!! And when they answer no ~ we have to take action to see that the society doesn't become a theocracy, like Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt, Morocco, Turkey [almost], Algeria, Indonesia [Aceh], Malaysia, The Maldives [no non-Muslims].

Those politicians who don't want to be called Islamophobic, racist and the like, would allow these types of legal systems to be set up in Europe. So for an increasing number the name calling ~ is preferable to the laws that run or influence most Muslim countries.

Across Europe there are changes in language used to describe society, there is now 'a' culture, of which other cultures are secondary, and a change in laws that would protect it. And this is not going to stop because someone is called a name ~ particularly 'Islamophobic' and 'racist' which should have never been used to promote Shari'a and curtail hard won rights and freedoms.

Posted by: roxn | September 30, 2010 7:58 PM | Report abuse

the stupidity of the american people is a force to be reckoned with. it is a mighty stupidity, deep and wide and unyielding on all manner of subjects. from politics to economics to history to culture, this land is a cesspool of ignorance, half-truthss, lies and legends all believed by the common man to be bedrock fact, whether it's true or not. this is how flim-flam men like glenn beck popular every generation. he plays to the fears of the uneducated, tells them spooky atories and then! shows them a way out. but this path out requires a few purchases mr beck just happens to be a sellin. now you're on you're way. Ever stupider and ever more misinformed, but the American voter feels like he's been in the light of the enlightened one. Watch the Beck Cultists--thy could be trouble.

Posted by: kennedy6500 | October 1, 2010 12:45 AM | Report abuse

This report will make neither Islamophobes nor Islamophiles happy. But at least it lets some Western Muslims speak for themselves: http://www.muslim-grass-roots-discuss-democracy.com/index.php?page=report

Posted by: lexalexander1 | October 5, 2010 12:19 PM | Report abuse

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