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Happy Hour Roundup

* Dems playing defense big-time? Republicans appear to be spending big money to broaden the House playing field, with $35 million now committed for ads in 55 districts, far more than the 39 the GOP needs to flip the House.

* And: A new CNN poll finds that the GOP leads in the generic matchup by nine points among likely voters, 53-44, though more than 20 percent have yet to make up their minds.

* Also: Pew Research finds independents shifting hard toward GOP Congressional candidates, with indys supporting Republicans by roughly the same margin Obama enjoyed among them in 2008.

* But: Chris Cillizza notes a bright spot for Obama vis a vis 2012: Indys don't desire GOP rule as much as they distrust govenrment in general, so showing results could turn things around.

* Josh Marshall aptly notes that figuring out what really happened with the tax cuts in the Senate is impossible given all the "spin, ass-covering, internal confusion and changing positions from one moment to the next." Very depressing.

* No end to the Blue Dog absurdity: Sam Stein reports that House "moderate" Dems are now searching for spending cuts to offset extending the tax cuts for the rich.

* The Nevada dogfight continues with Harry Reid's latest ad, which blasts Sharron Angle's vote as a state legislator against forcing insurance companies to cover early colon cancer screenings.

The ad -- note Angle's "no I don't think so" moment -- is meant to dovetail with the news of her opposition to mandated coverage of autism.

* And: Jon Ralston reports that a forthcoming poll by the GOP firm Public Opinion Strategies finds Reid beating Angle, 45-40.

* Spanking of the day: Chris Coons administers a stern one to Reid for calling him "my pet," claiming it was "a very unfortunate choice of words." Yes indeed...

* Headline of the day, from Jed Lewison, on the attacks on Stephen Colbert from GOP Rep. Steve King and media figures:

GOP congressman, media pick fight with television character

* A very tough editorial in the Post on the GOP's "Pledge to America." Sample: "If Republicans are serious about governing responsibly, they have an odd way of showing it."

* Class act of the day: Garance Franke-Ruta reports that Michele Bachmann is starring in a new film that describes Obama as a "gangsta."

Though in fairness to Bachmann, she doesn't use that word, only referring to Obama with the less racially charged term "gangster."

* Brian Beutler games out how House Dems could conceivably still vote on extending the middle class tax cuts, though the odds of it happening are exceedingly slim.

* Teagan Goddard flags what has to be one of the funniest AP fact-checks ever:

"In a television spot posted by Republican candidate Ilario Pantano, news clips about him were trimmed to omit two key parts of his biography: That he was once charged with murder and that he had worked for Wall Street firm Goldman Sachs."

* Snark o' the day, from Jason Linkins, on that video showing Christine O'Donnell's apparent desire to stop all of America from having sex:

If you've been having trouble getting laid, maybe Christine O'Donnell is the one keeping it from happening.

* And special bonus snark from Steve Benen:

I wonder how many viewers saw the segment at the time, and thought, "You know, it's only a matter of time before the Republican Party nominates this crazy person to serve in the United States Senate."

What else is going on?

By Greg Sargent  | September 24, 2010; 6:10 PM ET
Categories:  2010 elections, Happy Hour Roundup, House Dems, House GOPers, Political media, Senate Dems, Senate Republicans  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Sharron Angle's `chickens for checkups' moment?
Next: Weekend Open Thread

Comments

The Republicans will win 59 seats in the House -

And the Republicans will take control of the Senate.

If Mike Castle runs a write-in campaign, it helps Christine O'Donnell and gives her a path to victory.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 24, 2010 6:16 PM | Report abuse

"In a television spot posted by Republican candidate Ilario Pantano, news clips about him were trimmed to omit two key parts of his biography: That he was once charged with murder and that he had worked for Wall Street firm Goldman Sachs."

Isn't that redundant?

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 24, 2010 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Whew, I was worried you wouldn't close the loop on the Angle campaign. Of course it was YOU that set the table for the Reid campaign to roll out the ad. When do you start your job as Spokesman for Senator Reid? Pathetic and devoid of integrity. I can buy the whole "objective but has a preferred outcome" but this is just plain advocacy.

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | September 24, 2010 6:20 PM | Report abuse

More from that CNN poll:

"Only 37 percent of likely voters say they are more likely to vote for a congressional candidate backed by Obama.

"In contrast, half of all likely voters now say they are likely to choose a candidate supported by the conservative Tea Party."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/09/24/obama.approval.poll/index.html

Posted by: sbj3 | September 24, 2010 6:20 PM | Report abuse

Troll, if "objective" means pretending that Sharron Angle is not an idiot and a danger to this country's government, then the first requirement is to ignore the facts.

Maybe try Fox or the NR for that.

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 24, 2010 6:26 PM | Report abuse

""In a television spot posted by Republican candidate Ilario Pantano, news clips about him were trimmed to omit two key parts of his biography: That he was once charged with murder and that he had worked for Wall Street firm Goldman Sachs."

Hire that writer for Colbert!

Posted by: wbgonne | September 24, 2010 6:29 PM | Report abuse

"What else?"

International demonstration for action on climate change
10/10/10 - Global Work Party

http://www.350.org/101010

Posted by: wbgonne | September 24, 2010 6:32 PM | Report abuse

Night, All.

Posted by: wbgonne | September 24, 2010 6:38 PM | Report abuse

So then, Greg's job is to be an advocate for Senator Reid.

Does he also agree with Matthew Yglesias that lying is ok?  Can we trust him to report legitimate news from Senator Reid that might reflect negatively on him?  You're comfortable with his Spokesman role?

http://rightwingnews.com/2010/08/matt-lieglesias-has-advocated-lying-before/

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | September 24, 2010 6:40 PM | Report abuse

What else?

NYT is about to do a piece on a John Boehner affair.

"House Minority Leader John Boehner was asked by a liberal blogger Thursday to answer questions about an affair with a lobbyist, an allegation that will reportedly be the focus of an upcoming New York Times expose. Boehner ignored the question outright."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/24/john-boehner-affair-lisbeth-lyons_n_738007.html

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 24, 2010 6:43 PM | Report abuse

Greg Sargent:

So, you REALLY think that Christine O'Donnell is trying to stop a married man and woman from having sex?! I thought it was just your crazy commenters ...

Did you watch the video clip you yourself posted? It is clear that everyone was referring to stopping TEEN sex, not adult (and especially not MARRIED) sex.

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 24, 2010 6:44 PM | Report abuse

"Troll, if "objective" means pretending that Sharron Angle is not an idiot and a danger to this country's government, then the first requirement is to ignore the facts."

I'll believe Greg is "objective" when he stops pretending Boxer, McCaskill, and Murray are not idiots who are dangers to the country. And you can throw in the nitwit from Michigan, too.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 24, 2010 6:46 PM | Report abuse

mikefromArlington:

Did the NYT try that lie against McCain too?

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 24, 2010 6:47 PM | Report abuse

12Bar


Please keep your hands off the Sharon Angle men.


Thank you.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 24, 2010 6:48 PM | Report abuse

"And you can throw in the nitwit from Michigan, too."

Mitt Romney?

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 24, 2010 6:48 PM | Report abuse

What an . . . October surprise -- HuffandPuff and NYT getting ready for another pre-election sliming of a Republican.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 24, 2010 6:50 PM | Report abuse

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be a male lobbyist.

Should be interesting having the first openly gay Republican speaker if they pull of this win in Nov.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 24, 2010 6:51 PM | Report abuse

It's almost frightening how closely this present period resembles the 1930's. Not only are we experiencing the worst economic crash since the Great Depression (yet another republican gift) we are seeing the same kind of social unrest.

In 1935 Sinclair Lewis uttered his famous quote....

“When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.”

Is it just me or has anybody else noticed a segment of posters who wrap themselves in the flag and certainly carry the cross?

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 24, 2010 6:51 PM | Report abuse

Ah, the Times and their "sex scandals". They really blew the lid off McCain's "philandering". Yeah, that was a fact filled story. Wasn't that written by Jayson Blair?  It will no doubt drip with credibility.  

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | September 24, 2010 6:52 PM | Report abuse

I thought all the good stories is the NYT were written by Judith Miller.

Posted by: cmccauley60 | September 24, 2010 6:55 PM | Report abuse

@tit4tat If Boehner actually had the affair do you have problem with it being reported? Or is that "sliming" somebody?

Was Bill Clinton slimed?
How about John Ensign?
David Vitter?

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 24, 2010 6:55 PM | Report abuse

I thought all the good stories is the NYT were written by Judith Miller.

Posted by: cmccauley60 | September 24, 2010 6:55 PM | Report abuse

LOL. Do you right wingers have a talking points server you connect to?

You all performed the same exact dodge.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 24, 2010 6:56 PM | Report abuse

Oops should have added John Edwards getting slimed by the National Enquirer so we could keep up the tit4tat and have 2 r's and 2 D's.

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 24, 2010 6:57 PM | Report abuse


sold2u: you might notice that the stock market has been so hurt by Obama's policies that it has moved from approximately DOW 6000 when he assumed office, to DOW 10,841. Wallstreet protest too much, they are doing just fine under his leadership. . .

Posted by: leichtman1 | September 24, 2010 10:39 AM
-----

Tsk, tsk, tsk.
A little truth in advertising please.

From the Guardian:
"Wall Street provided an unwelcome reminder of the financial challenge facing Barack Obama as it marked the new president's inauguration with a stock market plunge led down by a renewed crisis of confidence in US banks.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average suffered its worst one-day drop since December 1, slumping by 332 points to 7,949."

Actually, the 6000 bottom occurred a couple of months AFTER Obama took office.
It was on his watch, just as 9/11 was on GWB's watch. Remember.

November 4, 2008, when voters went to the polls, the market closed at 9625.28. Since investors are usually betting on the come, Obama's election does not seem to have inspired much confidence among investors.

Oh, but heck, when we're telling stories, what's two or three thousand points among friends?


Posted by: Brigade | September 24, 2010 7:00 PM | Report abuse

rukidding7:

If Boehner is having an affair, I would want to know (and if I lived in his district, I wouldn't vote for him). However, the NYT has a history of lying like this (and ignoring other stories like John Edwards's love child). Next question.

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 24, 2010 7:01 PM | Report abuse

"Is it just me or has anybody else noticed a segment of posters who wrap themselves in the flag and certainly carry the cross?"

I don't know about that, but I do know I've seen a segment of posters, led by you and Ethan most of the time, who spends a lot of its time railing that the other side is unpatriotic and that only your party cares about the country. And you guys spend a lot of time lecturing about the Bible and how it requires socialist policies.

That what you are talking about?

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 24, 2010 7:02 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone see the absolutey disgraceful show put on by Colbert today in Congress. Zoe Lofgren should be subjected to a vote of censure for inviting him and asking him to stay when Dingell wanted him to leave. What's next, Lady Gaga testifying in costume about don't ask don't tell? it's almost as if my party deserves the bad things that are going to happen in November.

To think that many of us try to support the party day after day on these blogs using facts and hard evidence and then they go and do outrageously stupid stunts like this.

Couple this with politically suicidal vote or lack of vote on tax cuts and you wonder if the congressional pensions look better to them than holding seats! All they had to do was hold the vote, and if the Reps blocked them on the $250,000 proposal they had the ammo in the bag for the elction. Now, we are the party that raised taxes on EVERYONE, and the insiders see that as a winning argument.

I need a new political party!

Posted by: 54465446 | September 24, 2010 7:04 PM | Report abuse

54465446:

Glad you finally saw the light!

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 24, 2010 7:11 PM | Report abuse

"Did anyone see the absolutey disgraceful show put on by Colbert today in Congress."

Lighten up junior.

Republicans are a shameful joke every day in the halls of Congress.

Spare us the faux outrage.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 24, 2010 7:15 PM | Report abuse

Back to Chrsitine O'Donnell, I thought that your side was so PRO-CHOICE? If teens choose not to have sex, what's so wrong about that? For instance, Bristol Palin will no longer be a teenager (as of October 18), but she's JUST trying to get teens to choose abstinence too. There's nothing wrong with learning from other people's mistakes. I think she has a compelling story to tell, but your side (of course) just makes fun of it.

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 24, 2010 7:15 PM | Report abuse

And of course the March 2009 low of 6000 when Obama had been in office a few weeks had nothing to do with Bush's disastrous economic policies and today's 197 point gain should be credited to Bush. My point is that with all the whining we hear from the GOP who always claim that the stock market predicts the direction of the economy that the DOW has improved somewhere b/w 3000 and 4000 points since Obama has been sworn in no matter how hard you try and spin it.

Posted by: leichtman1 | September 24, 2010 7:17 PM | Report abuse

And of course the March 2009 low of 6000 when Obama had been in office a few weeks had nothing to do with Bush's disastrous economic policies and today's 197 point gain should be credited to Bush. My point is that with all the whining we hear from the GOP who always claim that the stock market predicts the direction of the economy that the DOW has improved somewhere b/w 3000 and 4000 points since Obama has been sworn in no matter how hard you try and spin it.

Posted by: leichtman1 | September 24, 2010 7:19 PM | Report abuse

One more time, leichtman, you can do it ...

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 24, 2010 7:22 PM | Report abuse

Brigade wrote:

"The Dow Jones Industrial Average suffered its worst one-day drop since December 1, slumping by 332 points to 7,949."

Actually, the 6000 bottom occurred a couple of months AFTER Obama took office.
It was on his watch, just as 9/11 was on GWB's watch. Remember.

November 4, 2008, when voters went to the polls, the market closed at 9625.28. Since investors are usually betting on the come, Obama's election does not seem to have inspired much confidence among investors.

Oh, but heck, when we're telling stories, what's two or three thousand points among friends?"

Telling stories indeed but you left out the ending. The day AFTER the inauguration the DOW closed UP 279 points. I guess we can do this quite a while can't we, picking and choosing dates. But even you can tell that since the close you noted above, roughly 8,000, the Dow is UP 35% as of today. Your turn to pick your time frame.

Posted by: 54465446 | September 24, 2010 7:23 PM | Report abuse

Bristol wants to lecture teens about abstinence and Vitter wants to lecture us about family values. More GOP insanity.

Posted by: leichtman1 | September 24, 2010 7:24 PM | Report abuse

@leichtman,

The market is like a big oceanliner. It makes big swings based on anticipated future profits. The entire financial world was shook to its foundations and the earthquakes kept coming for months. Until there was a final selling capitulation in 3/09, the bottom wasn't reached. Since then, the market has recovered 70% based on future profits.

The administration has a hand in guiding future anticipated profits, but it doesn't occur on January 20th, or November 4th, or some arbitrary date of the political cycle.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 24, 2010 7:25 PM | Report abuse

"Did anyone see the absolutey disgraceful show put on by Colbert today in Congress?"

Yes. I'm normally a big fan of performance art but I felt embarrassed for him. He's very funny and was great on Strangers with Candy but today was a PR disaster for the Dems and did nothing at all to help migrant farm workers.

Posted by: sbj3 | September 24, 2010 7:26 PM | Report abuse

JakeD: I could never be THAT desperate.

mikefrom arlington: How do we differentiate ourselves from a group whose actions we mimic?

Posted by: 54465446 | September 24, 2010 7:29 PM | Report abuse

@54465446 and leichtman,

It feels good to have at least two other people who understand market action. It's more about supply and demand and outlook.

In any timeframe, as you pointed out, the markets have made an outstanding rebound, one this is way above average.

Thank God, because my portfolio was breathing fumes by late 2008.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 24, 2010 7:30 PM | Report abuse

For once, 12BarBlues is right (a broken clock, and her father it seems, still beats her though):

By using some aribtrary date like January 20, 2009 (the day Obama was NOT sworn in BTW) leichtman1 create a false benchmark. The stock market TANKED as soon as it became apparent that Obama and the Dems were taking over this country -- as you know, I don't think he's even legally President, so what he's doing is even worse -- and the Bush tax cuts were only for 10 years BECAUSE the Dems refused to go along with them and reconciliation had to be used (you remember, the same "reconciliation" that you thought was just fine during the ObamaCare debate).

People are (understandably) scared to lose their money now that the Dems are in charge now. If the Dems don't want to extend tax cuts to help us out, fine by me -- it's actually BETTER for my argument -- they will certainly incur the wrath of most voters.

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 24, 2010 7:31 PM | Report abuse

@jake,

You are dead wrong. The market started tanking in 9/08 when the financial universe went into a tailspin. If you don't know that, you don't know anything. ALL the large financial institutions, worldwide, were at risk of a spiralling bankruptcy and ALL the central banks started propping them up.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 24, 2010 7:34 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps you're too plugged into the Beltway mentality, but I haven't heard anyone "on the street" talking about middle class tax cuts as a campaign issue.


Posted by: Bondosan | September 24, 2010 3:33 PM
-------

LOL. You should get out and about more. Stop spending all your time with the infamous 47% who pay no federal income tax.

The cynic in me is beginning to wonder if something nefarious is afoot. I know this adminstration and this Congress are inept beyond compare, but they couldn't possibly be this clueless---could they? I'm beginning to think maybe the Democratic leaders, including Obama, actually want ALL the tax cuts to expire, while they posture and pontificate about how they're doing everything they can to save the rates for the middle-class. They really need just to do nothing to get across the board tax increases, and nothing looks like just what they're doing.

If it comes to either extending the current rates for the upper brackets as well as the middle or letting all of them expire, I'm going with extending them all. The economy can't stand much more of this liberal dithering and incompetence.

Posted by: Brigade | September 24, 2010 7:35 PM | Report abuse

The current market up turn is due mostly to the hope that the GOP take back Congress ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 24, 2010 7:36 PM | Report abuse

amazing. Jake and his GOP apologists are now trying to tell us the markets have been down since Obama has been in office and that Britsol Palin is a great spokesperson for abstinence.

Posted by: leichtman1 | September 24, 2010 7:36 PM | Report abuse

amazing. Jake and his GOP apologists are now trying to tell us the markets have been down since Obama has been in office and that Britsol Palin is a great spokesperson for abstinence.

Posted by: leichtman1 | September 24, 2010 7:37 PM | Report abuse

Her name is BRISTOL.

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 24, 2010 7:38 PM | Report abuse

sbj wrote:

"but today was a PR disaster for the Dems and did nothing at all to help migrant farm workers."


It was never about migratory workers, any more than Beck's rally was about peace and hope etc. It was about relentless self-promotion but Lofgren was too stupid to realize and probably thought he actually WAS going to talk about migratory workers. Notice how Dingell said his remarks differed from his prepared text when he asked him to leave? What a moron Lofgren must be!

Posted by: 54465446 | September 24, 2010 7:39 PM | Report abuse

the stench of failure is everywhere. Rootless, directionless people who live on government hand outs are my fellow customers at the supermarket. These people aren't really poor, they have homes, TV's, running water and cars. In short they have virtually everything I have. yet the are poor. That's because they are poor in spirit. the liberal agenda has crushed their drive while the welfare dollars permit them to subsist at the margins. Is that truly the best the left can do?

Posted by: skipsailing28 | September 24, 2010 5:01 PM
----

Well, now that you bring it up . . .

Posted by: Brigade | September 24, 2010 7:40 PM | Report abuse

Usually I pay no attention to jake and this is why. He knows he's talking BS, but he has to because the market has made an astounding recovery, and he doesn't even know why.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 24, 2010 7:44 PM | Report abuse

skipsailing:

Haven't heard the "welfare" line in a while. Is it 80's week and I didn't get the memo? Were you listening to Christopher Cross singing "Sailing" when you wrote that?

Posted by: 54465446 | September 24, 2010 7:45 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues:

I try to give you props, and this is how you treat me -- no wonder your father knocked you out -- 9/08 is exactly when Obama became the heir apparent.

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 24, 2010 7:47 PM | Report abuse

Telling stories indeed but you left out the ending. The day AFTER the inauguration the DOW closed UP 279 points. I guess we can do this quite a while can't we, picking and choosing dates. But even you can tell that since the close you noted above, roughly 8,000, the Dow is UP 35% as of today. Your turn to pick your time frame.

Posted by: 54465446 | September 24, 2010 7:23 PM
-----

Big difference. Everything I posted was true. It was in response to a statement that the DOW was at 6000 when Obama was sworn in. Was that true? See the difference?

Posted by: Brigade | September 24, 2010 7:49 PM | Report abuse

Rootless, directionless people who live on government hand outs
-------------------------------------
Listen, from time to time everybody is strapped for cash and may not know how to pay their bills. Even the Queen of England!

In 2004, Elizabeth II, who is reportedly worth $551 million, had considered getting help paying the mounting utiliy bills at Buckingham Palace from a government fund intended to help low-income U.K. residents. British newspaper The Independent, found out royal aides were looking at tapping into the $94 million fund to help with bills that ran more than $1,000,000. U.K. government ministers turned her down, though, fearing it would be a public relations nightmare


Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/09/24/report-queen-elizabeth-tried-to-use-public-aid-fund-to-heat-her-palace/?xid=rss-politics-huffpo#ixzz10Uh3pBeF

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 24, 2010 7:51 PM | Report abuse

yea great jake you caught a typo aren't you sharp and insanely tell us that Bristol is a role model for abstinence. Somehow I mistakenly thought that so called cultural conservatives looked down on having children out of wedlock, unless its Sarah's kid of course.
12bar the date you refer to was 9/15/08. I truly wish all voters would have that date repeated to them over and over again 9/15/08, that is the date that best represents failed GOP economic policies.

Posted by: leichtman1 | September 24, 2010 7:51 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues wrote,
"@54465446 and leichtman,
It feels good to have at least two other people who understand market action."
-----

Okay, we give up. Who are the two?

Posted by: Brigade | September 24, 2010 7:53 PM | Report abuse

@jake,

Are you being purposefully obtuse? You can't be this uninformed about how the stock market works, could you? It's one thing to joust about politics, but the market is far more important.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 24, 2010 7:54 PM | Report abuse

@leichtman and everyone,

You are right--the date that shall go down in infamy is September 15, 2008. Anyone who is curious about the biggest financial disaster in modern times, can read any number of books about it.

One I recommend is "Too Big To Fail" by Andrew Sorkin. The subtitle is: The Inside Story of How Wall Street and Washington Fought to Save the Financial System - and Themselves

And clue one: it is NOT about the 2008 election.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 24, 2010 7:58 PM | Report abuse

12bar the date you refer to was 9/15/08. I truly wish all voters would have that date repeated to them over and over again 9/15/08, that is the date that best represents failed GOP economic policies.

Posted by: leichtman1 | September 24, 2010 7:51 PM
----

And Chris Fox. Don't forget Chris Fox. Or was it Chris Cox?

Posted by: Brigade | September 24, 2010 7:59 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues:

I am not obtuse at all and know how the market works (hope that is clear enough for you).

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 24, 2010 8:00 PM | Report abuse

brigade for you of all people to be in denial that the DOW has made an astonishing recovery since Obama has been in office is disappointing. Obama was sworn on Jan 20, 2009. To suggest that he was responsible for the drop to 6000 but deny that his policies had anything to do with the market's dramatic recovery is beneath you.

Posted by: leichtman1 | September 24, 2010 8:00 PM | Report abuse

The market has been struggling back, DESPITE what Obama and the Dems are doing!

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 24, 2010 8:02 PM | Report abuse

And Then the Roof Caved In: How Wall Street's Greed and Stupidity Brought Capitalism to Its Knees by David Faber

Bad Money: Reckless Finance, Failed Politics, and the Global Crisis of American Capitalism by Kevin P. Phillips

Chain of Blame: How Wall Street Caused the Mortgage and Credit Crisis by Paul Muolo

The Trillion Dollar Meltdown: Easy Money, High Rollers, and the Great Credit Crash by Charles R. Morris

Fool's Gold: How the Bold Dream of a Small Tribe at J.P. Morgan Was Corrupted by Wall Street Greed and Unleashed a Catastrophe by Gillian Tett

House of Cards: A Tale of Hubris and Wretched Excess on Wall Street by William D. Cohan
------------------------------
Folks, these are just a few of the books written about September 15, 2008. The titles should tell you something.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 24, 2010 8:07 PM | Report abuse

Did anybody else notice Rep. Conyers hilarious attempt to derail that circus this morning, "I would ask that you leave the hearing room"? Nice coordination with the rest of your committee members Rep. Lofgren! Conyers looked so befuddled it occurred to me he's probably due for a conjugal visit with his wife. 

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | September 24, 2010 8:12 PM | Report abuse

As if the Dems needed anymore negative stories prior to the election, from todays WAPO:

"The political fight over a 2008 voter intimidation case ratcheted up Friday as a Justice Department official testified before the federal civil rights commission that there were "irrational reasons" for "gutting" a case filed against a group of African Americans who allegedly discriminated against white voters."

On Friday, Coates, who said he was testifying before the commission as
whistleblower and in violation of his Justice supervisor's instructions, said that there is a "hostile atmosphere" in the civil rights division that did not "reflect race-neutral policies." He said the country's major civil rights organizations are also biased against race-neutral enforcement."

------

I realize charges about voter intimidation and bias within the current Justice Department don't fit the usual liberal narrative and pale to insignificance next to the testimony of a moronic comedian like Stephen Colbert, but some people pay attention, and this can't help the Dems.

Posted by: Brigade | September 24, 2010 8:13 PM | Report abuse

12Bar writes

It feels good to have at least two other people who understand market action. It's more about supply and demand and outlook.

___________________________

Jake is correct in pointing out the OUTLOOK PART


As soon as the markets saw that Obama MIGHT win, the markets began to PRICE IN that possibility.


That led to a stock market crash.


Clearly, the markets were afraid of what Obama MIGHT do.

_______________________________

Conversely - if those FEARS appear to be unfounded, then the market will recover.


Has the market recovered to where it was BEFORE all this ?


NO, not even close. The only logical conclusion is that Obama tanked the stock market.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 24, 2010 8:18 PM | Report abuse

The day I argue with you, 37th, is the day I will kneel down and commit ritual seppuku. You know little about anything, but you know nothing about the stock market.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 24, 2010 8:20 PM | Report abuse

54465446 writes


You won't even address me (whine, whine, wimper, wimper)


___________________________________

Response comes in within one minute.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 24, 2010 8:21 PM | Report abuse

brigade for you of all people to be in denial that the DOW has made an astonishing recovery since Obama has been in office is disappointing. Obama was sworn on Jan 20, 2009. To suggest that he was responsible for the drop to 6000 but deny that his policies had anything to do with the market's dramatic recovery is beneath you.

Posted by: leichtman1 | September 24, 2010 8:00 PM
----

I will concede that the market has rebounded since its 6000 low. But just as I don't hold Obama accountable for the 2008 recession, I can't give him too much credit for the market rebound. The market was under valued at the bottom and certain to bounce back (hindsight is good), but it has been pretty dead in the water for 2010, and the attitude of the business community and the unemployment rate tell me
that the stimulus has failed and the economy will continue to sputter until there is more reason for optimism than I see today.

Posted by: Brigade | September 24, 2010 8:23 PM | Report abuse

brigade wrote:

"I will concede that the market has rebounded since its 6000 low. But just as I don't hold Obama accountable for the 2008 recession, I can't give him too much credit for the market rebound."

Hard to argue if you're being fair minded, even if only for a little while. LOL

Posted by: 54465446 | September 24, 2010 8:29 PM | Report abuse

12Bar


I can assure you that I have made more money in the stock market than you have.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 24, 2010 8:30 PM | Report abuse

My dad hit me when he was 89 and dying. It knocked me out. Men have a lot of upper body strength at any age.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 24, 2010 5:48 PM
----

Sounds like you have a glass jaw. I haven't been following this story of the Reid supporter getting punched. Was this just a matter of Reid supporters trying to disrupt an Angle rally? If so, a few more of them should have gotten their jaws jacked.

Posted by: Brigade | September 24, 2010 8:31 PM | Report abuse

All this debate on the stock market and who should get the credit is amusing...especially since the facts show that economically the country has historically fared better under the D's than the R's. Ahhh those pesky facts...

http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/001448.htm

"Of course, forgotten in Republican fear and loathing is the inescapable historical truth. Since the time of Herbert Hoover, Wall Street and the American economy overall almost always do better under Democratic presidents."

BTW...The economy does better under the D's for everyone...not just the middle class or those "Rootless, directionless people who live on government hand outs"
but the wealthy as well.

I love the idiots on the right who are the first to shout class warfare over a 3% tax increase on the wealthiest 2% of our nation but think nothing of uttering moronic phrases like..."Rootless, directionless people who live on government hand outs" Ahhh makes one long for the famous oxymoron..."compassionate conservative" LMAO!!!!!!

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 24, 2010 8:32 PM | Report abuse

Oh, really, how much? Inquiring minds want to know. Let's see if you're all hat and no cattle.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 24, 2010 8:33 PM | Report abuse

I blame Clinton for what is Clinton's fault.

Clinton DEREGULATED THE DERIVATIVES MARKETS - LEADING TO THE MELTDOWN.


Clinton repealed the Glass Steagall Act.


Clinton put in place all the Free Trade Deals - which caused millions and millions of jobs to be lost.


The Free Trade Deals have also led to horrible Trade deficits - deficits which should NOT happen if the Free Trade deals were constructed properly.


I blame Obama for what is Obama's fault - mostly hypocrisy and lying about his campaign platform.


I also blame Obama for wasting the stimulus dollars - 800 BILLION WORTH OF BLAME.


I also blame Obama for ignoring the economy for a year and half - while he jammed a far left-wing health plan down the throats of Americans who didn't want it - a plan that still has UNCERTAIN TRILLION DOLLAR COSTS.


The benefits coming in just this week will cost $460 BILLION IN HIGHER INSURANCE PREMIUMS


There is more to come with the health care bill


But add that to the $700 Billion Obama wants to raise our taxes -


AND THAT IS A $1.16 TRILLION OBAMA DRAG ON THE ECONOMY.


Few democrats want to defend that.


Yea, I blame Obama for that too.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 24, 2010 8:33 PM | Report abuse

Ok stupid me. I hate to get things wrong, but I wrote Dingell when I meant Conyersin the post about Colbert. Damn!

Posted by: 54465446 | September 24, 2010 8:37 PM | Report abuse

We know, we know, STRF, that you blame Obama for everything including the killing of Cock Robin. Anything new on that front?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 24, 2010 8:37 PM | Report abuse


My dad hit me when he was 89 and dying. It knocked me out. Men have a lot of upper body strength at any age.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 24, 2010 5:48 PM


__________________________________

How RUDE could you be to cause an 89 year old man to get violent - and want to still teach you a lesson ???

My guess is this one was justified.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 24, 2010 8:42 PM | Report abuse

STRF:

Clinton signed the legislation. Gramm wrote them both and passed it through Congress, twice. Gramm also wrote the loophole that allowed Enron to engage in the frauds it did. His wife Wendy prevented the CFTC from taking any enforcement action.

It makes no sense to say you blame Obama for ignoring the economy, AND for the stimulus. But internal consistency is not your strong suit. Health care was sold by lies about the financial implications. There is not doubt about that or defense for it. See we agree about one thing.

Posted by: 54465446 | September 24, 2010 8:48 PM | Report abuse

My dad hit me when he was 89 and dying. It knocked me out. Men have a lot of upper body strength at any age.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 24, 2010 5:48 PM


_________________________________

I suppose this begins to explain the complete disrespect and rudeness you show to people you don't even know - clear across the country.


You have a constant hostile attitude - you come on this board almost daily - looking not to be constructive but looking to start a fight.

When people do not respond to you, you try to recruit other people to start fights - you just want the fighting.

Does this sound like your family life? Are you just transferring the fighting in your family life to this board ???


Well - anyway - I hope you are not abusive toward your girlfriend - because you just might fit that profile.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 24, 2010 8:51 PM | Report abuse

@54465446,

Listen, my friend, if you engage with the Rainforest, you better book your therapy appointment right now because you will need it. Ever hear of crazy making? He's got the corner on that market.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 24, 2010 8:51 PM | Report abuse

In 1935 Sinclair Lewis uttered his famous quote....

“When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.”

Posted by: rukidding7 at 6:51 PM


In 1935 Sinclair Lewis uttered his famous quote....

“When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.”

Is it just me or has anybody else noticed a segment of posters who wrap themselves in the flag and certainly carry the cross?

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 24, 2010 6:51 PM


In 1935 Sinclair Lewis uttered his famous quote....

“When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.”

Is it just me or has anybody else noticed a segment of posters who wrap themselves in the flag and certainly carry the cross?

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 24, 2010 6:51 PM
_____________________________

We can change this to say - reluctantly wearing a flagpin - and carrying a Koran.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 24, 2010 8:53 PM | Report abuse

12barblues wrote:

"Listen, my friend, if you engage with the Rainforest, you better book your therapy appointment right now because you will need it. Ever hear of crazy making? He's got the corner on that market."

I'm actually killing time while reading about my beloved Philadelphia Eagles. They've done crazy making a lot longer and a lot better. lol

Posted by: 54465446 | September 24, 2010 8:56 PM | Report abuse

54465446 at 8:48 PM

______________________________


I hate to remind you of this - but for any bill to pass, the President has to sign the bill after a majority of both houses passes the bill.


OR if the President doesn't sign it, a two-thirds majority is needed in both Houses.


Clinton SIGNED THE BILL


In those days, negotiations take place - the President signals what he will sign, and what he won't sign - discussions are undertaken.


Many times agreements are made AHEAD of time in order to avoid too many vetos.


IN a situation in which one party has the Presidency and the OTHER party has both Houses - these discussions are especially important.


_________________-

CONCLUSION - CLINTON SIGNED THE BILL, CLINTON SOLD YOU OUT - CLINTON COULD HAVE SAID HE WOULD VETO AN IMPORTANT ECONOMIC SAFEGUARD FROM THE 1930s.

Clinton ALSO deregulated the derivatives markets - and pushed through the Free Trade deals.


CLINTON SOLD YOU OUT.


CLINTON SOLD YOU OUT


CLINTON SOLD YOU OUT


CLINTON SOLD YOU OUT


CLINTON SOLD YOU OUT.


Hillary wanted to run for the Senate in New York - she went through Wall Street for 2 Senate campaigns and a Presidential campaign.


Be an adult for once.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 24, 2010 8:59 PM | Report abuse

@54465446,

It's just that no one ever asks STRF anything. We just scroll past as quick as we can. So when someone actually tries to engage with him, our sympathy is engaged.

:)

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 24, 2010 9:01 PM | Report abuse

SaveTheRainforest thinks Clinton should have overridden a 90-8 vote with O'Donnell's magic wand, or something like that.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 24, 2010 9:24 PM | Report abuse

12Bar


There you go again - trying to stir up hostility with other posters.


I think it is clear your issues are more with your father and your family - than with other posters who you have never met.


Next therapy session: Why don't you concentrate on your father and your family, instead of complaining that the people on the blog aren't saying what you want them to say.


How about that?


Can you do that ?


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 24, 2010 9:42 PM | Report abuse

SOoi know a way for the dems out of their tax cut problem. What pelosi does it tell the strategy to only the leadership no aides. They decide to take a vote on the middle class tax cuts. If the Rs vote yes everything is cool. If they vote schedule a another vote 2 days later for only the 250+$ . If secrecy is held about the 2nd vote until after the first vote; the republicans wont know what to do. Because then they cant vote for the rich and have on record for voting against the middle class; meanwhile the blue dogs get to vote on both taxcuts, while they can acast the Rs for voting to raise taxes on the middle class while cutting them for the upper class. If the Rs vote no to the 2nd bill then thats tough for their base.

Posted by: srb1990 | September 24, 2010 9:47 PM | Report abuse

STRF:

You told me earlier that EVERY economist agrees with this. I am still waiting for a quote from one who is not you! Please enough with the CAPS and big spaces though. It's not like your childhood. I'm right here paying attention to you!

Posted by: 54465446 | September 24, 2010 10:21 PM | Report abuse

O/T: A question for Imsinca, if she checks in: I was just reading a story on DailyKos about a PPP poll on the CA governor's race and wondered what your take is on the whole thing--how you feel about Brown, etc. I'm on the East Coast, but I find the race interesting. I also might be in bed if you answer :), but I'd appreciate your observations and will check again. Here's the link:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/9/24/904014/-CA-Gov:-Bad-day-for-Meg-Whitman

Posted by: carolanne528 | September 24, 2010 10:37 PM | Report abuse

carolanne, CA is interesting this year. There are a couple of props that are energizing voters, especially Dems, and I think it is filtering up into the other races. As long as Dems show up to vote I doubt Whitman will be able to win.

There is a lot of coverage regarding how much she has spent to win and that, plus the fact that she actually didn't vote herself for so many years, is turning people off. Her jobs prescription rings very hollow with more of the same tax cuts that we've already tried and don't seem to work. She also flip flopped on immigration since the primary so people don't trust her on the issue.

Our state is in pretty serious financial trouble with lots of cuts in education, fire and safety, and city services so people are really being careful how they vote I think.

Brown is not the ideal candidate but he knows his stuff regarding running the state and I think people actually trust him a little more than the alternative.

There is some blow back from Arnold. He's actually done some good things re the environment but a lot of people blame him for some of the budget problems. He's treated teachers abominably while talking out the other side of his mouth about how important education is. There's been a big push to cut some of the oil subsidies here to help keep our schools open and functioning and he will not bend on the issue.

Also, there's an ad out right now that blasts Fiorina for outsourcing jobs while she was at HP that I think has helped Boxer take a more substantial lead. It's really well done and uses her own words about layoffs and sending jobs elsewhere, pretty negative scenario for the state.

We'll see how it all shakes out but it feels like Dems have the momentum right now.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 24, 2010 11:06 PM | Report abuse

So everyone is talking about the M-D poll and Greg posts to some privately commissioned poll from a partisan firm with Reid in a better position. Reid is back in the low 40's after all that smearing on Sharron Angle. No traction. Angle wins by four.

Posted by: Truthteller12 | September 24, 2010 11:20 PM | Report abuse

Another judge rules DADT unconstitutional.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

TACOMA, Wash. — "A federal judge ruled Friday that a decorated flight nurse discharged from the Air Force for being gay should be given her job back as soon as possible in the latest legal setback to the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

The decision by U.S. District Judge Ronald Leighton came in a closely watched case as a tense debate has been playing out over the policy. Senate Republicans blocked an effort to lift the ban this week, but Leighton is now the second federal judge this month to deem the policy unconstitutional.

"Today you have won a victory in that struggle, the depth and duration of which will be determined by other judicial officers and hopefully soon the political branches of government," the judge told her."

Posted by: lmsinca | September 24, 2010 11:25 PM | Report abuse

to jake a 3000 point move in the DOW is just STRUGGLING BACK, oy.

brigade ask: "Was this just a matter of Reid supporters trying to disrupt an Angle rally? If so, a few more of them should have gotten their jaws jacked"


No this was not an Angle event it was a nonpartisan forum put on by a Las Vegas Christian organization, where Reid was given 15 min to make his presentation via satellite and Angle the gave her response in person. The Reid supporters got up in mass and walked out when Angle started speaking and for that they were attacked. What schmucks. And for that they should have gotten their jaws jacked.

Its amazing that conservatives seem to struggle in admitting that the stock market has done well since Obama has been in office. Obviously that reality is difficult for them to deal with. In Sept and and Dec 2008 there were days when the market was down 500-600 points per day and another 900 point drop under Bush apparently they have fond memories for those good old days under the Bush administration.

Posted by: leichtman1 | September 25, 2010 12:29 AM | Report abuse

I think it was qb, who politely reminded me that Republicans address HCR in the "pledge" and I forgot to link this comment from Newsweek that pretty much sums up their prescription. It's just another way to try to make people feel happy, tout high risk insurance pools with no clue how to pay for them.

There's more critique of their proposals at the link. Reality Check.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The messiest proposal legislatively is repealing health-care reform and replacing it with the predictable grab bag of Republican health-care solutions: tort reform, health savings accounts, and buying insurance across state lines. Curiously, there is one major provision of health-care reform—prohibiting insurance companies from denying coverage to people with preexisting conditions—in their list of proposals. Such a prohibition is economically infeasible without the individual mandate that health-care reform included. If you force insurers to accommodate those with prior conditions and not the young and healthy, premiums will go up. The pledge contains no answer to this conundrum other than a vague promise to "expand state high-risk pools, reinsurance programs and reduce the cost of coverage."

http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/the-gaggle/2010/09/22/gop-pledge-to-america-looks-unlikely-to-inspire.html

Posted by: lmsinca | September 25, 2010 12:30 AM | Report abuse

to jake a 3000 point move in the DOW is just STRUGGLING BACK, oy.

brigade ask: "Was this just a matter of Reid supporters trying to disrupt an Angle rally? If so, a few more of them should have gotten their jaws jacked"


No this was not an Angle event it was a nonpartisan forum put on by a Las Vegas Christian organization, where Reid was given 15 min to make his presentation via satellite and Angle the gave her response in person. The Reid supporters got up in mass and walked out when Angle started speaking and for that they were attacked. What schmucks. And for that they should have gotten their jaws jacked.

Its amazing that conservatives seem to struggle in admitting that the stock market has done well since Obama has been in office. Obviously that reality is difficult for them to deal with. In Sept and and Dec 2008 there were days when the market was down 500-600 points per day and another 900 point drop under Bush apparently they have fond memories for those good old days under the Bush administration.

Posted by: leichtman1 | September 25, 2010 12:31 AM | Report abuse

Just scrolling through this awful thread and hoping for some sanity. So I was going to just say Hey LMS! and then sign off.

I don't have any energy to argue with the dipshit trolls out of the clown car parade tonight, so I'll just salute our resident saint (lms), wish her kids luck and safe travels, wish her good reading.

And tao, where are you? I'm reading a really good book and want to share.

ruk, keep fighting the good fight and put down that donut! Seriously, hope you're getting on a bike tomorrow.

Going to Michigan tomorrow mtn biking, so out for a while. Wonder if we'll see Sue from Kzoo back here any time soon.

Au revoir.

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 25, 2010 12:34 AM | Report abuse

Hi BG, have fun biking. We're camping tomorrow night at the beach, can't wait. I miss sue as well, she always had great links and commentary. Enjoy your time off.

I bought wbgonne's book today so I'll let everyone know how it is, I'm looking forward to the read. Paris tonight and home tomorrow, back to reality and a sh!tload of work I imagine for the Golden girl. Saint? What the heck?

Posted by: lmsinca | September 25, 2010 12:46 AM | Report abuse

Have fun at the beach and wear your mantle proudly. Let us know the girl's full report from her trip. Or at least the good part.

We'll also have to get others reading wbg's book so we can talk about it.

Night all.

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 25, 2010 1:05 AM | Report abuse

A "protected class" has to be created by a legislature or by the Constitution.


The Judiciary can NOT create its own "protected class"

This court case will not stand -

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 25, 2010 3:37 AM | Report abuse


NEWS FLASH

Obama has a problem with his stimulus programs - the democratic pet projects - his "green" projects.


China owns 97% of all the production of "RARE EARTH METALS" - which are used in the green cars and the GREEN BATTERIES which Obama wants to build.

Obama has wasted BILLIONS OF DOLLARS because he failed to line up the RARE EARTH METALS he needs for his projects.

Just another mess to add to the list of Obama's complete unbelievable disasters.

Anyway - blame Obama - you know you should blame Obama


I know you don't want to - but at some point you are going to have to agree - blame Obama.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 25, 2010 3:53 AM | Report abuse

54465446 at 10:21 PM


Did you ASK any economists? Do you have ONE that disagrees ????

See I knew it.


Every one you asked agreed.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 25, 2010 3:58 AM | Report abuse

"The Reid supporters got up in mass and walked out when Angle started speaking and for that they were attacked. What schmucks. And for that they should have gotten their jaws jacked."

IF you read the news reports, and IF you watched the five-minute video of Angle's closing, you know this is not nearly the whole story. The Reid supporters disrupted Angle thoughout with loud jeering, catcalls, and fake "applause." You can actually hear, when the moderator says that applause will just cut into Angle's time, that the Reid people respond with more clapping and jeering.

Then after they had been trying to disrupt her entire presentation, they got up en masse and started leaving, again to disrupt and try to obstruct Angle's supporters who were obviously still sitting and listening -- just like this broad who decided to pick a fight.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 25, 2010 6:12 AM | Report abuse

"To suggest that he was responsible for the drop to 6000 but deny that his policies had anything to do with the market's dramatic recovery is beneath you."

It has gone up because it fell way down, probably "too" far. But throwing off all spending restraint, threatening new and higher taxes on capital and producers, capt and tax, taking over health care and insurance, new and threatened layers of regulation, card check, an NLRB gutting all procedural fairness to employers . . . Obamanomics obviously isn't helping the market or the larger economy. And anyone who knows anything about business or the market knows that.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 25, 2010 6:29 AM | Report abuse

"I love the idiots on the right who are the first to shout class warfare over a 3% tax increase on the wealthiest 2% of our nation but think nothing of uttering moronic phrases like..."Rootless, directionless people who live on government hand outs" Ahhh makes one long for the famous oxymoron..."compassionate conservative" LMAO!!!!!!"

You didn't do anything here but demonstrate yet again how shallow your mind is. He didn't criticize those people. He criticized the welfare state that you believe isn't yet big enough and dehumanizing enough for making them rootless and directionless, stripping them of hope and independence.

You might not agree with that, if you understood it, but you are such a reactionary, closed-minded ideologue, that you couldn't even comprehend what he was saying. And that again tells me a lot about how little you've ever bothered to educate yourself about different points of view, because it is a statement of a very central part of conservative thought. You are yet again ignorantly condemning what you've never bothered to understand.

And yet again proving, for the 1000th time, my thesis about you and your liberal pals.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 25, 2010 6:40 AM | Report abuse

I just saw a group of our employees at Chrysler-Obama Motors caught on camera pounding beer and booze and smoking weed on a work break. When the TV crew approached they hid their faces, jumped in their cars, and sped off.

Just wonderful to know my money is being "invested" by Obama in these dissolute union slackers. Of course, it was on Fox News, so I suppose it could all have been a creation of computer graphics. I'm sure ru will have some theory like that. Or some way to blame the rich.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 25, 2010 6:48 AM | Report abuse

You know what You guys should stop complaining because, one the health care we have now isnt as good as it was supposed to be. also the law has just been signed so give it some time. so if u want to say u have the right to choose tell that to ur congress men or state official. If you do not have insurance and need one You can find full medical coverage at the lowest price by calling 877-882-4740 or check http://bit.ly/9fDY7U If you have health insurance and do not care about cost just be happy it and trust me you are not going to loose anything!

Posted by: schoonmaker25 | September 25, 2010 7:16 AM | Report abuse

qb:

You asked the other day whether anyone agreed with your hypothesis that, generally speaking, those on the left would have a difficult time articulating conservative views coherently because they don't really understand them, while those on the right actually do understand and could cogently represent liberal views. I sort of do agree with this, but I am interested in what your explanation is. You said that was a topic for another day. Well, it's another day and that would be a much more interesting discussion than the standard Angle/O'Donnel/Palin fare that Greg has chosen to turn this blog into.

Posted by: ScottC3 | September 25, 2010 8:03 AM | Report abuse

All, here's a fresh open thread for you all:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/09/weekend_open_thread_2.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | September 25, 2010 8:18 AM | Report abuse

STRF wrote:

"Did you ASK any economists? Do you have ONE that disagrees ????


See I knew it.


Every one you asked agreed."

As I said before, it was you who said every economist agreed with you.

Which do you find more embarassing to be dismissed as other do to you, or to be asked serious questions, as I do, which you have no ability to answer?

Posted by: 54465446 | September 25, 2010 12:28 PM | Report abuse

Scott,

I am taking the day to go a football game with my son. Will try to answer later. I'm a bit surprised no one yet has denied my claim.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 25, 2010 12:57 PM | Report abuse

quarterback wrote:

"I just saw a group of our employees at Chrysler-Obama Motors caught on camera pounding beer and booze and smoking weed on a work break. When the TV crew approached they hid their faces, jumped in their cars, and sped off."

Isn't this a bit virginal of you?

Oh I get it. This only happens in UNION plants, but never anywhere else! Why are the boards so desultory this week. First it was the endless mindless chatter about the tussle between Angle and Reid supporters, now we have newly discovered evidence that autoworkers drink on the job. My God, do you think this will turn the election?

Posted by: 54465446 | September 25, 2010 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Scott,

I have several theories for my belief.

On is that liberalism as been the establishment ideology for decades. It is what our media culture inculcates and what people come to accept as normal reality. Hence, their assumptions and beliefs simply aren't challenged very often, and they never really examine them or consider other perspectives.

I also think that liberalism is much less based on reason than on feelings. I did not used to accept this critique, but I have come to believe it over the years. Because liberalism really derives much more from feelings and emotions, liberals do not engage in much critical analysis of their beliefs, as a rule. It all feels right to them. I won't name names, but I think this is evident in some regular commenters on PL.

For those who've gone through higher ed, of course the phenomenon is reinforced. College and graduate faculties are predominantly liberal, and student bodies quickly reflect that slant. Conservative students are thus feed a steady diet of liberal thought, while having their own beliefs challenged on a daily basis. While a student might have to read the odd Burke or Friedman essay, however, liberals are not so challenged.

Those are my basic thoughts. I have a couple of others, but they are more impolitic, so I'll leave them unsaid.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 26, 2010 6:45 PM | Report abuse

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