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Happy Hour Roundup

* One more quick word on TPM's report that the Claremont Institute claims the resume Christine O'Donnell submitted to the school said she'd studied at Oxford.

Obviously this seemingly confirms beyond doubt that she fibbed about this, and makes it even more likely that her claim she had nothing to do with her LinkedIn profile was a falsehood to cover up another falsehood.

But also keep this in mind: Her resume said this in 2002, and her online resumes said this six years later, in 2008 -- meaning this is a falsehood that she (or her online imposter) have been telling for a very long time.

* Even some conservative bloggers -- see here and here -- are mighty skeptical of O'Donnell's excuses about the Oxford fib.

* Are Dems losing hope in beating Rand Paul? The DSCC has canceled their Kentucky ad buy.

* Ezra Klein introduces us to the new Rahm, Pete Rouse, and says he's the guy who got Obama to respect Congress enough to get it to do his bidding.

* The furor surrounding Sharron Angle's belittling of mandated coverage of autism treatment continues raging in the Nevada media.

* Not all Republicans are anointing John Boehner as House Speaker: GOP Rep Michael Burgess tells ABC News' Top Line says it would be "premature" for GOPers to line up behind Boehner.

* World's greatest deliberative body update: Saxby Chambliss, after an internal probe, fires that staffer who posted "all f-ggots must die" on Joe. My. God.

* Russ Feingold, bucking the trend, goes up with a new ad aggressively defending health reform, even though Rasmussen finds him trailing by 12 points.

* Betsy Reed has an interesting question about all the talk of the "year of the GOP women":

Is the party's embrace of the current array of female candidates really about enhancing its appeal to men?

* Gallup finds that Sarah Palin is running a close second behind Mitt Romney for the 2012 GOP nomination, though it's way to early for these numbers to mean anything (in the real world, that is; who knows what she'll make of them).

* Move over, MoveOn and George Soros: Former GOP Rep. and current Congressional candidate Charlie Bass attacks challenger Ann Kuster, the liberal's great hope in New Hampshire, as a tool of ... the Progressive Change Campaign Committee.

* Jed Lewison thinks there's still time to close that enthusiasm gap, and thanks God the election isn't being held today.

* And Steve Benen breaks down O'Donnell and Oxford-gate:

Christine O'Donnell lied, and then lied about lying. This, coupled with her suspected campaign embezzlement, suspected tax fraud, background in witchcraft, rejection of modern science, hatred of gays, anti-masturbation efforts, and hysterically extreme political worldview, makes her a U.S. Senate candidate who's literally hard to believe.

Steve left out the stuff about stopping all of America from having sex, but that's a pretty good rundown.

What else is happening?

By Greg Sargent  | September 30, 2010; 6:40 PM ET
Categories:  2010 elections, Happy Hour Roundup, Health reform, House Dems, House GOPers, Senate Dems, Senate Republicans  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Closing the book on Christine O'Donnell Oxford flap
Next: The Morning Plum

Comments

I Am Pulling An O'Do

Or


How I Became A Skilled Major League Baseball Player, By Proximity.


I have attended many major league baseball games. I am now updating my bio, to reflect that I have participated in the playing of many major league baseball games.


think we need to come up with a name for this ingenious Christine O'Donnell method of claiming experience by proximity.

Scholastic Osmosis?

or

Pulling An O'Do?

Suggest some more names please folks


Posted by: Liam-still | September 30, 2010 6:48 PM | Report abuse

"Obviously this seemingly confirms beyond doubt that she fibbed about this ..."

Except, she DID STUDY AT OXFORD! LOL

Could you get any more "qualifiers" in there? "Obviously" some of us still have doubts that she fibbed. But, since you've closed the book, you'll be going back to daily Sharron Angle threads now, right?

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 30, 2010 6:49 PM | Report abuse

The left has now discredited itself on Christine O'Donnell on this Oxford thing.


She was "at Oxford"


Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 6:52 PM | Report abuse

Obviously, sitting in the stands does not equate to playing baseball. If you threw a Nerf football with someone in the University of Alabama parking lot, though, you could claim "I played football at the University of Alabama."

The "name" for that would be THE TRUTH.

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 30, 2010 6:53 PM | Report abuse

Greg

Seriously man - this is ridiculous - Christine O'Donnell

- signs up for a course,

- Gets on a Plane


- Flies to ENGLAND


- Goes to the Oxford campus


- Is ON THE OXFORD CAMPUS EVERYDAY FOR THE COURSE.


- and the certificate probably says "Oxford" somewhere


- AND everyone wants to quibble. If she wrote "Pheonix" people would complain she wasn't in Pheonix.


By the way, there is a "Columbia College" in Chicago separate from "Columbia University. Are you going to say all those people are being deceptive?


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 6:59 PM | Report abuse

I went to Harvard and Yale.


.................... for a day.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 7:02 PM | Report abuse

"One more quick word on TPM's report that the Claremont Institute claims the resume Christine O'Donnell submitted to the school said she'd studied at Oxford."

She can lie all she wants to. That's ok. But don't you go having sex...

The party of family values kill me. They don't seem to think lie's like "death panels" make for bad values. Like it isn't a sin. I sure wouldn't want my kids picking up those values...

Posted by: soapm | September 30, 2010 7:02 PM | Report abuse

This must be Jake The Vandal's last day on Plumline.

...................
I took down Weigel, and changed Cillizza's comments to nothing more than a Twitter feed, so it can't hurt to try it again.

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 30, 2010 11:31 AM |
....................

Anyone who openly states that he is here to vandalize and shut down the site, should be shown the door, and not allowed back.

Greg needs to throw out the Vandal before he can do his worst, as he clearly is promising to do.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 30, 2010 7:06 PM | Report abuse

"- and the certificate probably says "Oxford" somewhere"

Man, if only these people had the same standard for Obama's birth certificate.

Posted by: DDAWD | September 30, 2010 7:06 PM | Report abuse

soapm:

You do realize that SaveTheRainforest and I are pointing out that she DID NOT "lie" right?

Do You Hear the Words That Are Coming Out of My Mouth? /sign language

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 30, 2010 7:08 PM | Report abuse

Greg - Please take a look at this thread. Do you see why we complain about the troll infestation so much?

Posted by: nisleib | September 30, 2010 7:10 PM | Report abuse

DDAWD:

I do have the exact SAME standard (if Obama consents to the release of his original BIRTH CERTIFICATE, then I will defend it to the ends of the earth ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 30, 2010 7:11 PM | Report abuse

Rahm Emanuel has entered a thicket - and if he wins, great.

However, Rahm's residency is now in question - his tenant won't leave his house - HIGHLIGHTING ON THE FRONT PAGE the fact that Rahm does not live there.


Well - what kind of support does Rahm have?


The fact that Rahm renewed the lease over the summer - the exact date he made the commitment is unclear - indicates that Rahm was out of the loop on Daley's announcement. Not really the situation with someone who expects to take over the organization for the campaign.


Daley will probably declare an "open" primary - and release his people from having to support the organization's choice.


So, the union support, or lack, will be key for Rahm.

However, in the past few years there has been tension between Daley and the unions - which means a few aldermen probably are ahead of Rahm as the choice of the unions.


Rahm is going to have difficult times in the hispanic and black communities - no matter WHO endorses him in those communities. Those communities will go for one of their own - endorsements will mean little.


Rahm is jumping into a situation where nothing is certain -


Rahm can't even move into his OWN house - much less COUNT ON ANY POLITICAL SUPPORT.

It doesn't sound good.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 7:12 PM | Report abuse

So, does the new Journolist really think O'Donnell is a serious threat? Or is it that there just isn't anything better to talk about on the Democratic side?

Good for Chambliss, by the way.

Posted by: tomtildrum | September 30, 2010 7:12 PM | Report abuse

"World's greatest deliberative body update: Saxby Chambliss, after an internal probe, fires that staffer who posted "all f-ggots must die" on Joe. My. God."

Someone needs to clarify that. According to the AJC, the person in question was "removed":

"The wording is important. We’re picking up that the staffer was a military liaison assigned by the Pentagon — a fact that Chambliss’ office would not confirm. Nor would his office say whether the staffer worked in Atlanta or Washington.

A staffer under Chambliss’ direct employ would have been fired. A staffer under another entity’s supervision would be reassigned. Or removed."

http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2010/09/30/saxby-chambliss-apologizes-for-staffers-threatening-slur/

Posted by: schrodingerscat | September 30, 2010 7:13 PM | Report abuse

nisleib:

I've only responded to posts here and not brought up anything else (so, who exactly is "trolling" again?).

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 30, 2010 7:14 PM | Report abuse

@Jake = "You do realize that SaveTheRainforest and I are pointing out that she DID NOT "lie" right?

Do You Hear the Words That Are Coming Out of My Mouth? /sign language."

You make my point, another from the right telling bald faced lies while pretending to represent apple pie, America and family values...

Posted by: soapm | September 30, 2010 7:17 PM | Report abuse

nisleib

From my point of view, you are a troll.


Anyway, what does that have to do with Obama's horrible performance on the ECONOMY.


Did you find out what Obama's plan for the economy is?


Any Republican can come up with an economic plan - but Obama is the one in office with the RESPONSIBILITY.

OH< sorry, did I type a dirty word? RESPONSIBILITY.


Obama tends to run away from that word - the last time someone said it, Obama reportedly left the room, and refused to come back.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 7:17 PM | Report abuse

From the Betsy Reed piece linked above...

"Women, by and large, are leery of the new right-wing female politicians, but men are far more receptive. Palin has a much larger gender gap than her ideological persuasion would predict: men are split 44 to 45 between those who hold favorable and unfavorable views of her; for women, the split is 35 to 58, according to a National Journal poll. Says Christie Whitman, "Palin appeals to more men than women. It was the white men in the party who put her on the ticket [in 2008], thinking that women who would have voted for Hillary would vote for her. That was dumb. They weren't going to buy into that." In a recent survey presenting respondents with a hypothetical matchup between Palin and Obama, Obama beat Palin by 13 points among women, but men preferred Palin by 2 points. In other words, if it were up to men, Palin might very well become president in 2012 (if it were up to white men, she'd be a shoo-in)."

Now, that's interesting. Whitman echoes my suggestion that the Palin nomination was, in part, an attempt to capture women feeling left out after Hillary's loss. And it is surely the same 'thinking' which underpins the 'grizzly mama' marketing strategy. But I hadn't realized the gender disparity in who actually likes the Palin model (men) and who do not (women).

But it makes sense in that the hierarchical/totalitarian style of social organization (which the more conservative women candidates follow) is really a feature of how men tend to organize. Women's social structures are (generally) more co-operative and marked by compromise and, on a personal level, empathy.

Posted by: bernielatham | September 30, 2010 7:22 PM | Report abuse

I wanted to weigh in on an exchange earlier in the day between Kevin and Jake regarding the scriptural distinction between killing and murder. I recall that their respective views weren't that far apart.

Jake was correct IMO in stating that the accurate translation of the commandment is "thou shalt not murder." If I kill someone in the process of robbing a bank, I have murdered. If a policeman shoots me in the process of my robbing the bank, he has killed but he has not murdered. Capital punishment or the acts of a soldier sent to war may involve killing, but these would not be acts of murder. A reasonable argument can be made that some late-term abortions are actually murder---in the moral if not the legal sense.

Just as important: Christians, whether they be Catholics like 12BarBlues or Protestants, are not under Mosaic Law. The Decalogue is part of Mosaic Law. If we were keeping the Ten Commandments, we would be bound to keep the Sabbath, which is the seventh day of the week and has some very special rules regarding its observance. We would likely be Seventh Day Adventists.

As witness:
"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God; therefore, no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law; rather through the law we become conscious of sin." --ROM 3:19-20

Which law?
"I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, 'Do not covet.'" --ROM 7:7

"Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes." -- ROM 10:4

"...he who loves his fellow man has fulfilled the law. The commandments 'do not commit adultery', 'do not murder', 'do not steal', 'do not covet', and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: Love your neighbor as yourself." -- ROM 13:8-9

"...a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ." -- GAL 2:16

"Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law." -- GAL 3:25

Which is not to say Christians should willfully sin, but that "The entire law is summed up in a single command: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" -- GAL 5:14

Do unto others and forget keeping the Ten Commandments. Christ abolished "in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations." -- EPH 2:15

The apostles were "ministers of a new covenant---not of the letter but of the spirit," the former having been "engraved in letters on stone." -- 2 COR 3:6-7

Thus concludes my Thursday sermon.

Posted by: Brigade | September 30, 2010 7:23 PM | Report abuse

JakeD2 - You are here, by your own admission, to destroy this blog. That makes you the troll. SaveTheRainForest is even worse than you are. And didn't you both show up here at the same time bragging about taking down another blog?

Posted by: nisleib | September 30, 2010 7:24 PM | Report abuse

Anyway, what does that have to do with Obama's horrible performance on the ECONOMY.

from someone with reality:

" The debt Obama has added was the minimum necessary to prevent a second Great Depression, which would have added more to the debt than any short-term stimulus."

In short, go f yourself

Posted by: savetherest | September 30, 2010 7:25 PM | Report abuse

soapm:

I don't make your point, and if you don't want to answer my questions to you, that's fine by me. Have a nice life : )

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 30, 2010 7:30 PM | Report abuse

"Jake was correct IMO in stating that the accurate translation of the commandment is "thou shalt not murder."

Roman Catholics use the translation "kill", not murder.

Posted by: schrodingerscat | September 30, 2010 7:31 PM | Report abuse

nisleib:

No, and I am not here "to destroy this blog"; I've never said that.

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 30, 2010 7:34 PM | Report abuse

McDonald's is reportedly cutting 30,000 people from its health care plan.


What is NOT being reported is this:


The stated reason is that Obama's plan has a secret provision which says it is giving as the reason for these cuts.


HOWEVER - there are two other reasons


One is under Obama's plan, the McDonald's health care plan would have to be upgraded with additional benefits, making it too expensive - this deadline is not for a while, so it is not immediate.


In addition, the McDonald's plan faces a disincentive - it is better for McDonald's to take Obama's penalty - and THROW THE HEALTH CARE COSTS ONTO THE TAXPAYERS - than to keep this program.


Obama's plan actually CAUSED THE INCENTIVE for Obama to throw 30,000 people OFF of health care.


Unintended Consequences - and we are arguing about the value of an Oxford degree - what about the value of a Harvard degree?

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 7:36 PM | Report abuse

Hey, Bernie! Good to see you here!

"But I hadn't realized the gender disparity in who actually likes the Palin model (men) and who do not (women). "

I remember discussing this a lot during the election. Most women I knew - even the die-hard righties - couldn't stand Palin. Why? Because most women have known someone just like her - either as the "mean" girl in high school or the backstabber in the office who spent more time flirting her way to the top than actually working. Most women can spot someone like that 100 miles away - and if you're a woman and you can't - then chances are YOU'RE that woman.

Posted by: schrodingerscat | September 30, 2010 7:40 PM | Report abuse

One of the most revered Americans in history, George Washington, was so honest that when he cut down a cherry tree as a child he said, "I cannot tell a lie."

And yet here we are, a modern country, a superpower, in the year 2010, with computers and the internet, plugin hybrid vehicles, stem cell research, genome mapping, and even space travel...

...And we have a national political party and their legion of fanatics, who literally CANNOT TELL THE TRUTH.

From Joke and STRF right up to John Boehner, Mitch McConnell, and Sarah Palin; the very top of the Republican Party and Tea Party.

They literally CANNOT tell the truth, as is evidenced by every single post and comment they make whether on a blog or on the floor of the House and Senate.

LIARS and FRAUDS who simply, pathologically, CANNOT tell the truth.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | September 30, 2010 7:40 PM | Report abuse

Latest on the Meg Whitman Maid-gate.

Let's review the bidding:

Meg says "we did NOT receive any notification from SS about SS number problems with our maid".

Copy of letter from SS, dated 2003, appears with Meg's husband's handwriting telling maid to "look into it".

Husband says "maybe it is my handwriting" but "I still don't remember the letter".

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 7:41 PM | Report abuse

scat:

Saints Augustine and Aquinas were CATHOLICS. Augustine, for instance, agreed strongly with the conventional wisdom of the time, that Christians should be pacifist in their personal lives. But he routinely argued that this did not apply to the defense of innocents. In essence, the pursuit of peace must include the option of fighting to preserve it in the long-term. The "Just War" theory is an authoritative Catholic Church teaching confirmed by the United States Catholic Bishops in their pastoral letter "The Challenge of Peace: God's Promise and Our Response", issued in 1983. More recently, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, in paragraph 2309, lists the conditions for "legitimate defense by military force". The Catholic Church, therefore, is NOT against killing when necessary.

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 30, 2010 7:42 PM | Report abuse

No--there's more:

Conservative Group Wants Whitman Prosecuted

A conservative group against illegal immigration has called for the arrest of Meg Whitman, the GOP's candidate for governor of California, and her former housekeeper Nicky Diaz for breaking immigration laws. The Americans for Legal Immigration PAC said Thursday that Whitman should stand trial and Diaz should be deported.

------------------------------
Bwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 7:43 PM | Report abuse

PS to above post... I talk politics with folks who come into my shop every day. As we're in Portland's main tourist shopping area, we get folks from all over. And my experience matches what Reed finds - it is predominantly women who really do NOT like Palin.

Posted by: bernielatham | September 30, 2010 7:46 PM | Report abuse

No, McDonalds is to blame because they provide crappy health benefits to their employees.

Posted by: savetherest | September 30, 2010 7:47 PM | Report abuse

schrodingerscat at 7:31 PM


In your case, you don't know if the cat is dead, so you don't know if you are a murderer or not.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 7:48 PM | Report abuse

12Bar

You are posting this about Meg Whitman


Do you agree - ALL the illegals should be deported?

Will you tell us your position ?

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 7:53 PM | Report abuse

Fair trade: deport STRF and keep all the illegals!!!!! Right? Right?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 7:55 PM | Report abuse

"It's pretty clear from all parties involved that Whitman did intentionally or unintentionally hire an illegal immigrant for nine years, which is a violation of federal law," William Gheen, president and spokesman of ALIPAC.

"To allow Whitman to avoid a trial on this matter would be the same as allowing O.J. Simpson to avoid trial because he said he didn't do it before he was arrested," Gheen said.
----------------------------------
I was just on ALIPAC's website. Man, they hate Whitman, and did before this latest maid-gate. They hate Brown too. Equal opportunity haters.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 7:58 PM | Report abuse

@bernielatham | September 30, 2010 7:22 PM
Bernie, thanks for that interesting post. I agree with Christie Whitman about how dumb it was to think most Hillary voters would switch to Palin. I'm not surprised, though, that men prefer her (although by a small margin, thank goodness--it gives me hope). I remember overhearing a conversation in the supermarket shortly after she was nominated for VP. It was between two people who worked at the store--a man and a woman. The woman, who I always pegged as a Republican (don't ask me why), was taking the man to task for admiring Sarah Palin, asking how he could possibly imagine her as VP or possibly president. The man, with a sh$t-eating grin on his face, admitted that he just liked the way she looked :)

Posted by: carolanne528 | September 30, 2010 7:59 PM | Report abuse

@schrod - quick in and out, I'm afraid, but thanks. Re your observation that if one doesn't recognize such a harpy then one IS that harpy...that could explain STRF.

Posted by: bernielatham | September 30, 2010 7:59 PM | Report abuse

"The Catholic Church, therefore, is NOT against killing when necessary."

I never said they were. I was simply pointing out to Brigade that Catholics use the translation of "kill" and not "murder".

As a practicing Catholic, I am well aware of the notion of a "Just War". I am also aware of what the Catholic Church says about lying which flies in the face of O'Donell's claims that ALL lying is sin:

"2488 The right to the communication of the truth is not unconditional. Everyone must conform his life to the Gospel precept of fraternal love. This requires us in concrete situations to judge whether or not it is appropriate to reveal the truth to someone who asks for it.

2489 Charity and respect for the truth should dictate the response to every request for information or communication. The good and safety of others, respect for privacy, and the common good are sufficient reasons for being silent about what ought not be known or for making use of a discreet language. The duty to avoid scandal often commands strict discretion. No one is bound to reveal the truth to someone who does not have the right to know it."

So, just as the Catholic Church believes there are exceptions to "You Shall Not Kill" there are also exceptions to "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.:

Posted by: schrodingerscat | September 30, 2010 8:03 PM | Report abuse

Bernie! Welcome back.

We have been one man shy of a full Canadian load (OK, that was a compliment but it didn't sound like it).

Betsy Reed nails it. Great column.

Also, disgusted by the news that the DSCC is done with ad buys in KY. I don't think that race is over. Can someone post a reliable poll that show otherwise??

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 30, 2010 8:08 PM | Report abuse

Ethan201 writes


LIARS and FRAUDS who simply, pathologically, CANNOT tell the truth.

________________________

You are talking about Obama's 2008 promises of


bipartisanship


post-partisanship


transparency


post-racial policies


fighting the war in Afghanistan to win

YOU are talking about that, right ?

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 8:08 PM | Report abuse

In scanning these threads I cannot help but notice that the liberals seem to be getting more desperate with each passing day. There are very few attempts, by the candidates or their supporters, to tout the Dem record of achievements. What achievements? one might ask. An economy in the tank, a high unemployment rate, a HCR bill that's still upside down in the polls, no budget---shoot, they couldn't even bring a tax vote to the floor. The Dems are down to firing blanks.

So what are they running on? That the Republicans are crazy people. "We know we've been horrible, but they might be worse." LOL. What a strategy.

DDAWD whined on one thread about outright racism. I don't know his point of reference, but I'm willing to bet it wasn't Loretta Sanchez going after her Vietnamese-American challenger by saying the Republicans and the Vietnamese were trying to take "her" seat.

When you have absolutely no record of accomplishment on which to run, you ATTACK and attempt to demean your opponent.

One of the posters on an earlier thread had the audacity to comment on the personal appearances of conservatives. Can you believe it? If James Carville, Alan Colmes, Eleanor Clift and Henry Waxman crawled out of a shiney orb, I can guarantee you it would be WAR OF THE WORLDS redux. LOL.

Posted by: Brigade | September 30, 2010 8:10 PM | Report abuse

12Bar

It is a little foolish for Harry Reid and the democrats to be in favor of AMNESTY for all illegal aliens - and then come out and give Meg Whitman a difficult time.

Hypocrisy - isn't THAT what it is ?


Do you want them IN OR OUT - you can't have it both ways.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 8:11 PM | Report abuse

12Bar

According to reports, Meg Whitman paid the "illegal alien" $23 per hour.


wow - is that abuse of illegals??


$47,800 a year - IS THAT ABUSE OF ILLEGAL ALIENS - FOR HOUSEKEEPING ????

12 bAR - WHAT DO YOU YOU AND YOUR GIRLFRIEND PAY YOUR HOUSEKEEPER ?


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Hi BG - Can't stick around, I'm afraid. Had a few moments today (and will, now and again). I trust everyone had read Taibbi's Rolling Stone piece?
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/210904

Posted by: bernielatham | September 30, 2010 8:19 PM | Report abuse

Karma--that's what Conservative ALIPAC says about Whitman. On their blog, conservatives crow that Meg just wasted $120 million dollars.

Here's from their website:

"Whitman being a Republican, or a better or worse candidate than Jerry Brown, should not triumph over our value for the lost principle of the Rule of Law in America. There are already many very wealthy and powerful people and corporations that don't believe they should abide by our existing border and immigration laws either. Should we allow them to continue to operate without concern of enforcement because some people support that?

The Rule of Law means that all Americans or people on American soil are treated equally under the law and that nobody is immune to the law because they are wealthy, in the media, poor and downtrodden, white, black, brown, yellow, male, female, Republican, Democrat, or third party.

ALIPAC supports the restoration of the Republic and the Rule of Law in America.

These goals will never happen if Jerry Brown or Meg Whitman succeed with their mutual plans to turn millions of illegal aliens into new voters.

If the Whitmans and the Browns of America succeed with their Amnesty agenda, the political wishes of most of the people reading this message will never matter in America again. Millions of American voters like us will be replaced and America will fall."

http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-213996.html

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 8:20 PM | Report abuse

TO ALL ENVIRONMENTALISTS:


Conservationists are overestimating the number of species that have been driven to extinction, scientists have said.
A study has found that a third of all mammal species declared extinct in the past few centuries have turned up alive and well.

Some of the more reclusive creatures managed to hide from sight for 80 years only to reappear within four years of being officially named extinct in the wild.

____________________________


So, don't be so mean to everyone


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 8:24 PM | Report abuse

12Bar


ANSWER THE QUESTION


Are you in favor of amnesty for illegal aliens or not???


If you are, then you really can't be slamming Meg Whitman - can you?

But you can't resist - supporting one policy but still slamming Meg Whitman - is that right?


Is that right?


AND WHAT DO YOU AND YOUR GIRLFRIEND PAY YOUR MAID - is it $23 per hour ???

How about YOUR maid - legal or illegal ?

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 8:28 PM | Report abuse

Wow, ALIPAC hates a lot of Republicans. Here's their enemies list:

EVEN REPUBLICANS THAT PROMISE ILLEGALS AMNESTY STILL GET BACK-STABBED BY THEM SO YOUR BETTER CHOICE IS TO STAND WITH AMERICANS AND ABANDON SUPPORT FOR AMNESTY McCain, Romney, Huckabee, Whitman, Bush, Rove, Norquist, Armey, Giuliani, Rubio, etc...
--------------------------
Don't you love the "etc".

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 8:28 PM | Report abuse

scat:

I know you are Catholic (if you were Jewish, I would hardly rely on the Catechism to convince you of my points). The Church does NOT teach that it is acceptable to "lie". Staying silent is not a "lie".

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 30, 2010 8:30 PM | Report abuse

SaveTheRainforest,

Don't talk to me. Don't ask me questions.

You are not worthy of dialog because you cannot tell the truth.

I used your handle in my post because you perfectly illustrate the prototypical pathological serial liar that makes up the vast majority of a major American political party, the Republican Tea Party.

Every lie you tell is more evidence that Republican Tea Party fanatics and politicians alike simply CANNOT tell the truth.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | September 30, 2010 8:32 PM | Report abuse

SaveTheRainforest,

Don't talk to me. Don't ask me questions.

You are not worthy of dialog because you cannot tell the truth.

I used your handle in my post because you perfectly illustrate the prototypical pathological serial liar that makes up the vast majority of a major American political party, the Republican Tea Party.

Every lie you tell is more evidence that Republican Tea Party fanatics and politicians alike simply CANNOT tell the truth.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | September 30, 2010 8:32 PM | Report abuse

"liberals seem to be getting more desperate with each passing day."

Of course. Take a look at the economic situation. Now take a look at the polls and which party is set to make big gains. Any educated, patriotic American would be worried.

Conservatives can make up facts as to how tax cuts pay for themselves and how stimulus doesn't help the economy or how ACA increases the deficit and so forth. That's cute and will help win elections, but presumably many of these policies will be implemented. And that's not good for the country I live in. That's more important than being in Sarah Palin's Conservative Club.

Posted by: DDAWD | September 30, 2010 8:35 PM | Report abuse

SaveTheRainforest:

So, you ARE an environmentalist without doing a single thing (congratulations on "saving" all of those extinct animals ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 30, 2010 8:35 PM | Report abuse

While we are talking about immigration (don't I hear someone yelling in the WAY background?), Rupert Murdoch support amnesty.

Fox News Rupert Murdoch says to Congress:
'It is nonsense to talk of expelling 12 million people,' Murdoch said [speaking of the millions of people who are illegally residing in the U.S.]

“Not only is it impractical, it is cost prohibitive.”

Murdoch cited a study that shows a path to legalization would contribute about $1.5 trillion to the gross domestic product over the next decade.

Murdoch said: “I have no problem in supporting what I’m saying today on Fox News, nor would the great number of commentators on Fox News.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0910/42944.html#ixzz11282IlWx

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 8:41 PM | Report abuse

"LIARS and FRAUDS who simply, pathologically, CANNOT tell the truth."

Oh Sh*t! He's on to us.

Ethan2010, Everything.We.Say.Is.A.Lie.

(Except when we sign or names to cash our Rove checks (and worship our Dark Lord, Master Cheney).

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | September 30, 2010 8:44 PM | Report abuse

Wittman's maid, Nancy Santillon, claims that Ms. Whittman received notices from Social Security and the IRS that she ignored. Ms. Whittman claims her maid is lying. There might be a simple explanation. If Ms. Santillon's SS was in fact her sister's as she claims and Ms. Whittman paid withholding for her, the IRS seems to have a pretty sophisticated system to match the withholding with the name and SS number. IRS publication number 2181 sts out their policy:

"PART 5. THE IRS MATCHING PROCESS
This section provides an overview of the IRS matching process and the development of name controls.
The information returns you file must include a correct Name/TIN combination to allow us to match the
information reported against the income included on the payee’s income tax return. We check whether a
Name/TIN combination is correct by matching it against a file containing all social security numbers (SSNs)
issued by SSA or against a file containing all employer identification numbers (EINs) issued by IRS. Then we
compare the name control on the payee document (if provided) to the name control on file. If a name control
is not provided, we develop it from the name(s) provided on the first two name lines (up to 40 characters for
each name line including spaces) of the information return. If we can match a provided name or a developed
name control to the name control in our records, we consider it correct. If no match is found using this
process, we consider the Name/TIN combination to be incorrect. The chart on the back of Form W-9 has
information for payees about “What Name and Number to Give the Requester” of Form W-9"

They then set out notice letters that are generated when the IRS discovers this error, something Ms. Whittman now claims she never received.
Interesting.

Posted by: leichtman1 | September 30, 2010 8:44 PM | Report abuse

@leichtman,

Just to bring you up to the minute: There was a letter from SS. Husband of Meg Whitman wrote on the letter, delegating to the maid to figure it out. Copy of the letter is in the press.

Meg now says husband still doesn't remember the letter but "it could be his handwriting".

Duelling pressers hour by hour. It's never dull in CA politics.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 8:51 PM | Report abuse

@GREG and others...

I miss the good ole days when this blog was hosted by a different group than the WaPo and all these obnoxious arseholes didn't clutter the threads.

No I'm not talking about quashing dissent..certainly Scott C and Q.B. go back a lot longer on this blog than I do...but the recent infusion of idiots who came over after wrecking "The Fix" are simply to much. STRF, Jake, and now Brigade, Skip the bully Sailor girl who asks for people's addresses so he can "teach them a lesson". This blog is turning into juvenile food fight and the bullies are winning.

And so to my friends...see ya later. I've had enough. To those who despise me, have a beer and celebrate my departure.

I'm not lobbying for anyone to be banned.
However I am done wasting my time scrolling through mindless drivel of morons who don't possess the first independent thought and who do not have the ability to think critically.

And I wish to make it especially clear I'm not referring to two posters with whom I've sparred the most intensely. Specifically I'm not referring to Scott or Q.B. I couldn't disagree more with them but at least they believe and THINK about what they post. The rest of you already know who the idiots are who came over from the Fix.

I'll check back occasionally, and if Greg can get his techies to post names at the beginning of the posts I'll be back. I've just had enough of trying to wade through these total morons. My time is far more valuable.

Good luck to all and thanks to all who have provided many interesting discussions.
And yes Q.B. I'll even miss you.
But Jake, STRF, Skippy the he-man sailor and now Brigade...basically the crew that claims credit for wrecking Weigal's blog and getting banned from the Fix have succeeded for now with me. AGAIN GREG..IF YOU WANT TO FIX THIS PROBLEM PUT THEIR NAMES AT THE HEAD OF THEIR POSTS!!!

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 30, 2010 8:57 PM | Report abuse

"Staying silent is not a "lie"."

"The good and safety of others, respect for privacy, and the common good are sufficient reasons for being silent about what ought not be known or FOR MAKING USE OF A DISCREET LANGUAGE."

Posted by: schrodingerscat | September 30, 2010 9:00 PM | Report abuse

@ruk,

You are following down the path of other good posters. On the Fix, finally, in desperation to get rid of the spammer-in-chief, there was a boycott. I think Chris Cillizza really started to pay attention at that point.

The boycott was spotty and off and on, but basically everyone got sick of it all, at about the same time.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 9:05 PM | Report abuse

I think there is no question right now that we on the left are a bit desperate but I disagree that this desperation is borne of lack of accomplishment. Rather, it is the result of the poison that the right has put into the system and our utter frustration with the electoral landscape it has fostered.

The traction that the right has been able to achieve through its disingenuous attacks is disheartening to me and, I suspect, to many liberals. From "government takeover" to "death panels" to "bailouts" to "unprecedented debt" to "not a single job" ....

Now, a Christine O'Donnell comes along and the rightwingers, here at least, are even willing to defend her ridiculous lies so, yes, we are ready to attack. These people the GOP is running ARE nuts - Joe Wilson, Sharron Angle, Rand Paul, Christine O'Donnell....

Is this really where the country wants to go? I don't think so and I think we are all going to regret it if Jim Demint and Dick Armey get control of this country.

Posted by: pragmaticstill | September 30, 2010 9:07 PM | Report abuse

so 12bar is my assesment that when the SS number and employee's name didn't match it generated a letter from SS and possibly the IRS pointing out this discrepancy?
And Meg's answer: the dog ate the notice.
If Meg turns out that she is lying about this notice she is toast. Note my previous post where I project her anti immigrant San Diego base will turn on her in a heart beat if it turns out that this is how she handled the situation, even if she wants to blow anoher $119 million.

Posted by: leichtman1 | September 30, 2010 9:09 PM | Report abuse

rukidding7


You are an obnoxious troll who prefers echo chambers to honest discussions.

Apparently it is opposing viewpoints which really bothers you - not anything else.


Demanding a means to ignore people - is that Civil Discussion? I don't think so.


When you had trouble with other children in the sand box, what was your remedy then?

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 9:11 PM | Report abuse

enough with the juvenile name calling and personal attacks 37th. That is what got you banned once before under the moniker 37th at The Fix. We don t want to be forced to go down that road again.

Posted by: leichtman1 | September 30, 2010 9:14 PM | Report abuse

@leichtman,

I'm not going to say Meg lied. This is what happened this afternoon: Meg says "we did NOT receive any letter". Then the letter is given to the press. Now, she says her husband does not remember the letter but admits it "might be his handwriting" on the letter. Whether that will be interpreted as a lie, I don't know.

If the ALIPAC are any indication of the rabid right (and rabid they are--you gotta read their website), I'd say they are unforgiving. Not because she lied, but because she hired an illegal, and it doesn't matter to them whether she knew it or not.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 9:18 PM | Report abuse

rukidding7


Be a MAN - put Fox News on the television and start to read the opposing viewpoints.

It really is not that bad.

You can still state your point of view - defend Obama and his lack of an economic plan.

Go ahead, try it.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 9:18 PM | Report abuse

STRF, how many blogs have you been thrown off?

We know about the Fix. But what about before the Fix?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 9:21 PM | Report abuse


Ethan2010

What is your problem THIS time? You started to engage me - and pick apart little things -

I have to remind you - you are the one who seeks to engage people on this blog

What you do is just spew out democratic talking points - everyone can read their emails if they want - they don't have to read your posts which just repeat
everything.


_______________________________


Funny - you can talk to me, but you don't want to be talked back to


HOW AMERICAN IS THAT?


ethan writes:


I used your handle in my post because you perfectly illustrate the prototypical pathological serial liar that makes up the vast majority of a major American political party, the Republican Tea Party.


_________________________

WHAT was this lie by the way?


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 9:22 PM | Report abuse

12Bar

You are only on this blog to harass other people.


Why don't you just go spend some time with your girlfriend and leave everyone else along?

Leichtman


What is your problem today - ?


Not exactly sure what has you angry today.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 9:24 PM | Report abuse

12Bar

You are only on this blog to harass other people.


Why don't you just go spend some time with your girlfriend and leave everyone else along?

Leichtman


What is your problem today - ?


Not exactly sure what has you angry today.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 9:25 PM | Report abuse

Watching Rachael Maddow reminds me of how disastrous the Citizens United case was for elections.

I don't know what the solution to this is. Money is completely corrupting our system. We're going to become a banana republic.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 30, 2010 9:27 PM | Report abuse

Leichtman

Quite the contrary - it was those on your side who have been name-calling and personal attacks.

NEVER saw you complain about ONE of the liberals who engaged in that behavior.

ARE YOU BLINDED BY YOUR PARTISANSHIP?

I guess you are.

But don't complain to me. Did you EVER complain about anyone else???


I am sorry that you are upset about Obama and the GREAT OBAMA ECONOMIC STAGNATION.

But I didn't do it.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 9:30 PM | Report abuse

ruk, I'm not far behind you. I wanted to say good luck to Alex Sink, I know you like her and I hope she beats the crook. I'm sure we'll meet up at the PL again sometime soon. Good luck with those insurance premiums, we're going through the same thing, +200 beginning Nov.1.............We just need to survive to either 2014 or Medicare, God willing. Love you man.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 30, 2010 9:31 PM | Report abuse

Crybabies


Im going to leave too


I just can't stand how the conservatives post on here -


The worst is the double spacing and the capital letters - CANT STAND THAT.


This all is causing me to leave the blog - the cyber equivalent of suicide -


NOW I have to go back to watching MSNBC and listening to RAchel Maddow


Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 9:34 PM | Report abuse

get off of rkkiding and 12bar's backs and stop trying to turn this site into another food fight.

If the anti immigrant crowd deserts her even her spending another $100 million won't get her out of that box and Ca could be a blowout victory for Ds. Which means that DGA could then divert some of that Ca money to help Bill White and Ted Strickland, which look to be very competitive races.

Posted by: leichtman1 | September 30, 2010 9:35 PM | Report abuse

I think (hope) banana republic is a bit strong, mike, but I agree it looks like we are in for some real trouble if the Dick Armeys and Koch Brothers and the other narcisitic cynics are able to manipulate our system to their own personal benefit.

Posted by: pragmaticstill | September 30, 2010 9:35 PM | Report abuse

Good idea ruk, I'm joining you. I come by occasionally only to see this idiot STRF copy/pasting the same garbage over and over and over again.

His goal is to disrupt and make this place intolerable. He appears to have some sort of mental disorder that turns him into a relentless moron.

See ya Plumline. Have fun rolling in your own muck strf you idiotic piece of crap.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 30, 2010 9:36 PM | Report abuse

12Bar

Are you happy that you stirred up all this trouble?

I hope you and your girlfriend are happy.


You brought hostility onto this blog - and you are now causing trouble.


I have been saying for weeks that you are negative force - encouraging people to be hostile to one another.


YOU ARE THE TROUBLE MAKER.


Don't blame me.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 9:40 PM | Report abuse

it looks like it is back to simply ignoring your spamming 37th/RTF b/c apparently your tactics have not changed nor your sick
hatred of Obama.
Looks like a lot of us are praying that Sharon Angle doesn't get her hands on Medicare before our retirement. Interesting that she refuses to admit that she and her husband are surviving on a dreaded govt pension and healthcare that apparently is good enough for her but that she believe that no one else should receive.

Posted by: leichtman1 | September 30, 2010 9:42 PM | Report abuse

Looks like the parade of departing posters is growing.

@leichtman--

I was just looking at the crosstabs of the latest Brown/Whitman poll, and her strength is in southern CA and the inland empire, among men primarily. We'll see how the polls tick in a few days.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 9:44 PM | Report abuse

my guess 12bar is that this story will be toxic to Meg in her base, San Diego County.

Posted by: leichtman1 | September 30, 2010 9:46 PM | Report abuse

RUK, I'm going to miss you for sure. Frankly, I'm over talking to pathological liars myself.

I really like Plum Line, but now, thanks to Republican Tea Party bigots who are pathologically unable tell the truth, the comments section is now just an exercise in how to make a mockery of intellectual discourse.

Greg, if you are paying attention, please consider doing something, anything, to bring the level of discourse back to what it was. Please BAN the offending commenters SaveTheRainforest, JakeD2, Troll McWingnut, and Skipsailing28 for purposefully trying to disrupt what was an exceptional community of intellectuals. Or just kill the comments section entirely.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | September 30, 2010 9:46 PM | Report abuse

RUK, I'm going to miss you for sure. Frankly, I'm over talking to pathological liars myself.

I really like Plum Line, but now, thanks to Republican Tea Party bigots who are pathologically unable tell the truth, the comments section is now just an exercise in how to make a mockery of intellectual discourse.

Greg, if you are paying attention, please consider doing something, anything, to bring the level of discourse back to what it was. Please BAN the offending commenters SaveTheRainforest, JakeD2, Troll McWingnut, and Skipsailing28 for purposefully trying to disrupt what was an exceptional community of intellectuals. Or just kill the comments section entirely.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | September 30, 2010 9:46 PM | Report abuse

Leichtman

You can not be serious. You come on here with harsh words - and then claim that others are causing a fight.


12Bar has been stirring up trouble on this blog every day for weeks - encouraging hostile posters to come onto the blog and start fights here.


Whatever - you see the non-stop hate against Sharon Angel, Sarah Palin and now Christine O'Donnell


Do we hear ANY of the liberals complaining about the ethics problems of Rangel, Maxine Waters, or any of the Congressional Black leaders in trouble?


NO - it is just Republican women -

MEDICARE


Obama took $500 Billion OUT of medicare - that is the threat to Medicare, no one else.


You post nothing but deceptions and lies.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 9:48 PM | Report abuse

Ethan

Why don't you go over to Fire Dog Lake and post there ???


OR did they ban you because you don't agree with them ?

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 9:52 PM | Report abuse

Ethan

WHAT lies are you talking about?


I would like to fact-check you.


Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 9:54 PM | Report abuse

rukidding wrote,

"these obnoxious arseholes didn't clutter the threads . . .

the recent infusion of idiots . . .

I am done wasting my time scrolling through mindless drivel of morons who don't possess the first independent thought and who do not have the ability to think critically . . .

I've just had enough of trying to wade through these total morons. My time is far more valuable.

But Jake, STRF, Skippy the he-man sailor and now Brigade...basically the crew that claims credit for wrecking Weigal's blog and getting banned from the Fix."

-----

Does anyone else see the irony here? I personally haven't seen anything here or on any other blog any more offensive than the comments rukidding just posted.

But he doesn't want to scroll past the comments of others who post the same sort of attacks and insults that he regularly traffics in.

His rant is long on trash talk and notably short on fact. The Fix went downhill because of a new format implemented by the moderator. I've never been banned from there or anywhere else. 12BarBlues was not banned from there; and I don't recall ever seeing skipsailing post there---he may have, but I'm betting he was never banned. I don't know anything about a Weigal blog. I never visited there, much less posted.

Some people can dish it out, but they simply can't take the return fire. They'll hurl insults like rukidding just did, but take their marbles and run to momma if anyone responds to their rants.

When Liam and I were going at it last night, it had nothing to do with rukidding or anyone else. One good turn deserved another. I don't think either he or I took it as seriously as some of the casual observers. Had anyone wished to start a serious discussion, we would have gladly joined in.

I certainly didn't come here to ruin the blog. I came for the give and take and the exchange of ideas. It always follows that there is going to be some snark and insults---they go with the territory. But in my brief time here, I certainly haven't seen any posts so egregious that I would call for someone to be banned.

Insults don't bother me. And anyone is free to read my posts or scroll past them. But don't expect me to sit idly by when you challenge me. As for the high road or the low road, I'll meet you on whichever level you wish to engage.

Posted by: Brigade | September 30, 2010 9:56 PM | Report abuse

The word is George Soros has abandoned Obama


So have Gay men, pro-choice women and environmentalists - which are probably the three biggest issue-based donor groups for the Democratic Party.


Obama has blown it - Obama caused this by ignoring the economy - and failing to tend what the American People wanted most - JOBS.


OH Well - the democrats are not talking about this -


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 10:05 PM | Report abuse

Brigade


You are 100% correct.

The problem is the liberals really believe they are superior - morally and intellectually.

When they engage people - they find out they are not superior - at all. And perhaps other ideas are better.

They can not stand it.


That is why a civil discussion is so horrible for a liberal - it risks causing their whole world-view to come crashing down.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 10:13 PM | Report abuse

Anyway, what does that have to do with Obama's horrible performance on the ECONOMY.


_________________________________


Savetherest at 7;25


The truth is the economic studies have clearly proven that the recession ended in June 2009 - the stimulus was NOT needed to stop the slide.


So, what you are saying is a myth.


The stimulus was not taken seriously by the democrats. They treated it like a giant piggy bank. They decided to fund every democratic pet project that anyone had ever thought of over the past thirty years.


The stimulus money was wasted. It created few jobs. The website that Obama promised the nation to track the jobs was abandoned by Obama - promise broken.


So you are wrong - you should admit it - instead of cursing at people.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 10:19 PM | Report abuse

I have a PlumLine story to tell before I temporarily check out. I don't really care if anyone's that interested or not, I'm sure STRF and Jake will find something in it to mock. C'est la vie.

I came here a little over a year ago, during the crazy Tea Party/Death Panel summer. I lost my 30 year old niece to insurance rescission in 2008. My husband and I raised both her and my nephew since they were 12 and 15 respectively and even though she called me Aunt Lulu, I was, for all intents and purposes her mom.

Somehow we all survived and that same year I began working for two things, electing public officials who realized the need for health care reform and punishing the insurance company that took her from us.

Searching the internet for information I landed at FDL. At the time they seemed to be the site with the best information and activists putting everything on the line for real progress. I commented
occasionally but mostly just read everything I could get my hands there and everywhere else. And I ended up here in the comments section.

It was a smart group, on both sides, and I really had to work to hone both my debating skills and finding the best information to support my positions. I found a sense of purpose again here and not because it was an echo chamber of like minded people, but because it was an open forum of people with differing views and opinions forwarded with great insight and on occasion heated (I'm being diplomatic) rhetoric.

Arguing with Scott, qb and sbj was challenging to say the least. Reading Bernie's excellent posts and links was both enlightening and frightening. Some people with the same goals as I found me to be not entirely pragmatic enough when I questioned if the bill was going to be enough to really change things. Mike, Ethan, Paul, Tena and Liam gave me a hard time occasionally but I survived the ordeal intact. Along came ruk, BG, and wbgonne, more kindred spirits. One day tao wandered in and even though he and I disagreed on a number of issues we became friends. Since then we've had a lot of new people that wander in and out with both great comments and others we just overlook as not being very serious.

My point is that this has been a great place and I'm sure it will continue to be a great place with Greg at the helm. We can't necessarily pick our companions here but what we can do is maintain our own personal standards and integrity.

Right now we're being inundated with nonsense IMO and so I think it's best I join a few others and step back for awhile. It's not like I don't have anything else to do. It is election season after all. If I find an interesting link I'll drop it in occasionally. Thanks to all who knowingly or not helped me get through the past year.

One more time for good measure. We're only $85 away from our goal.

http://www.actblue.com/page/plcommunity

Posted by: lmsinca | September 30, 2010 10:23 PM | Report abuse

So Brigade, your rant about RUK's "offensive" post ends with a comment about how insults don't bother you?

Thanks for your refreshing hypocrisy. It is actually far preferable to the pathological denial of reality found in your fellow Tea Party Republican nutjob lunatic friends.

As I said in my previous comment, starting tonight I am calling for an outright BAN of the following posters:

SaveTheRainforest
JakeD2
Troll McWingnut
Skipsailing28

BAN THESE COMMENTERS!

Enough of this garbage. This is a private website. Websites ban commenters all the time. Pretending that it would be such a big deal to ban these people from the Plum Line is a joke. Want free speech? GET YOUR OWN D@MN BLOG.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | September 30, 2010 10:35 PM | Report abuse

So Brigade, your rant about RUK's "offensive" post ends with a comment about how insults don't bother you?

Thanks for your refreshing hypocrisy. It is actually far preferable to the pathological denial of reality found in your fellow Tea Party Republican nutjob lunatic friends.

As I said in my previous comment, starting tonight I am calling for an outright BAN of the following posters:

SaveTheRainforest
JakeD2
Troll McWingnut
Skipsailing28

BAN THESE COMMENTERS!

Enough of this garbage. This is a private website. Websites ban commenters all the time. Pretending that it would be such a big deal to ban these people from the Plum Line is a joke. Want free speech? GET YOUR OWN D@MN BLOG.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | September 30, 2010 10:35 PM | Report abuse

Imsinca

I believe there are alot more less expensive ways to regulate the health insurance companies.

A massive government program which is bound to distort the economy - and cause deficits at the federal and state levels is just not the right way to go.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 10:39 PM | Report abuse

"As I said in my previous comment, starting tonight I am calling for an outright BAN of the following posters:

SaveTheRainforest
JakeD2
Troll McWingnut
Skipsailing28

BAN THESE COMMENTERS!"

I see Bilgeman... he looks glorious!

He's beckoning me into the light.

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | September 30, 2010 10:42 PM | Report abuse

I'll back up brigade to this extent: He was not banned on the Fix, and neither was I. Skipsail wasn't on the Fix I don't think.

There were four people banned from the Fix in the latest debacle. STRF was one of those four. The other three are not on the Plumline.

JakeD2 had already departed the Fix. He might have been blocked, but I'm not sure about that. He was as hated and reviled on the Fix as on Plumline.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 10:47 PM | Report abuse

lmsinca, great story, you're an exceptional human being. God speed and lotsa love!

See ya 'round... :-)

Posted by: Ethan2010 | September 30, 2010 10:50 PM | Report abuse

lmsinca, great story, you're an exceptional human being. God speed and lotsa love!

See ya 'round... :-)

Posted by: Ethan2010 | September 30, 2010 10:50 PM | Report abuse

"Obviously this seemingly confirms beyond doubt that she fibbed about this, and makes it even more likely that her claim she had nothing to do with her LinkedIn profile was a falsehood to cover up another falsehood."

Ya think?

I'd just like to take this moment to remind some of my fellow conservatives (who might be a little deeper red than me) that I was saying Christine O'Donnell was not a good standard bearer for conservatism. Her arguments, such as they, were mostly not conservative, but rather absurd absolutist pabulum about sexual mores, something that a senator is going to have very little say (except, I suppose, in their own chambers, depending on the interns). She was fudging her resume, then trying--in the midst of a senate campaign attracting national attention--that she wasn't the one who posted her LinkedIn profile.

Not everyone is what they claim to be. Christine's conservatism is likely either as authentic, or as poorly considered, as her resume, her lawsuit, and her approach to her taxes.

I happening to have The Sound of Music on right now, and a line from "A Problem Like Maria" reminded me of Christine: "Maria's not an asset to the abbey."

If we're going, as Republicans, be merciless about kicking out liberals, RINOs, squishes, mavericks (whoops, no, McCain stayed), and real-politick smoking pragmatists, we should be equally merciless about rejecting frauds and incompetent sociopaths. That's what I'm saying. If you still believe Christine O'Donnell is (a) being rail-roaded or (b) a model conservative, I'm not sure what else I can say.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | September 30, 2010 10:51 PM | Report abuse

"I personally haven't seen anything here or on any other blog any more offensive than the comments rukidding just posted."

Well, I'd probably vote for your comments last night comparing homosexuality with pedophilia. Or your comment about the Democratic base consisting of crackheads lured to the polls by money, cigs, and cheap wine....but that's just my opinion.

Go ahead and slam me - I know it's what you do best - but it doesn't really matter in the end I suppose - because I'm out of here, too.

It has nothing to do with someone hurting my feelings or challenging me or there being too many conservatives on the board. I always came here to learn something - sometimes that came from the right, sometimes it came from the left, and sometimes it came from the middle. Now, It's just mostly noise around here and I'm tired of pressing the scroll bar.

So.......Adios, amigos!

Posted by: schrodingerscat | September 30, 2010 10:51 PM | Report abuse

@lms,

What do you mean that you lost your niece to insurance recission? You mean she died?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 10:52 PM | Report abuse

(cont)

She is our Alvin Greene. I'll put it that way. Do you see liberals lining up to support Alvin Greene? I mean, admittedly, you would see that if there was a chance in H-E-double-hockeystick that Greene could beat DeMint, but still. Most liberals are at least aware of Alvin's profound shortcomings. I know a lot of smart conservatives, and I haven't consulted them all, but I doubt any of them were taken in by Ms. O'Donnell.

That being said, I'm not foolish enough to think that whether some conservatives rally around a poseur like O'Donnell or rejected her immediately would make any difference to liberals who characterize every GOP candidate, and well-nigh every conservative, as a heartless, evil, lying sack of shlitz. That's never going to change. But even if liberals cannot see the difference between a Palin, or a McMahon, or a Scott Brown and a Christine O'Donell (who I will again call a "conservative" poseur--seriously, when was the last time you think she perused the works of Buckley and Hayek and Sowell? I mean, really? Or anything other than "How to Get Ahead Without Really Trying"?) . . . even if lefties can't tell the difference, I'd say that we can. And we should. Or any victories in 2010 and 2012 are going to end up being Pyrrhic. And ephemeral.

Come on. Not to be snotty, but conservatism is the ideology of George Will and Ronald Reagan, of William F. Buckley and Friedrich Hayek. Milton Friedman. Thomas Sowell. Come on, people!

I've read Reagan's diaries. Show me the political thoughtfulness of O'Donnell to compare to Reagan, or even the much vilified Newt Gingrich. Whatever you can say about Gingrich's opportunism (it is legion) and his marital fidelity (apparently not a priority), the guy is whipsmart and when he's writing about politics and policy he has a point. Where's that with O'Donnell?

Even plenty of rock-ribbed conservatives are out there saying: "Okay, no, O'Donnell was clearly a mistake. How do we control the damage?"

Sometimes it makes sense to circle the wagons, but not when the attack is coming from inside the circle. For once, the problem is not the venom and vitriol of Democrats or the agenda of the press corps, it's the quality of the canidate, which is sorely lacking.

If you still think I'm currying favor, or just "don't get it", or I'm on the wrong side. I will be borne out on this.

How do you guys feeling about Ariana Huffington? You know, Huffpo? You do remember she used to be a Republican? I called her as a (much higher quality) poseur back when she was doing political commentary for Comedy Central. Turns out, I had her pegged.

I know what I'm talking about. Don't be surprised if Christine O'Donnell turns out, at some point in the future, to be even less of a red-blooded conservative than she would appear now, with the back-tracking and the fudging and the incoherence.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | September 30, 2010 11:00 PM | Report abuse

lms,

So, so sorry about your niece. Your advocacy honors her.

Thank you for your gracious, smart, factual and heartfelt posts. I learned alot from you and not mere politics. Thanks also, probably more, for the posts that made me smile. ;>)

I'm with you...I'll be by, but will not get caught up in the middle-school alleyfights, the mental midgetry, and some amazonian monomaniac's private obsessions.


Posted by: tao9 | September 30, 2010 11:06 PM | Report abuse

@Ethan2010: Ban These Commentors!

"SaveTheRainforest
JakeD2
Troll McWingnut
Skipsailing28"

Troll McWingnut? Skipsailing28? Are you smoking crack?

Heck, why stop there. Ban everybody but Ethan2010. /snark

I understand STRF--he's chosen the Plumline to do performance art. Fine. And while I don't agree with banning JakeD2, I understand the sentiment (and would not start a free JD2 campaign). But Skipsailing and Troll McWingnut just have dissenting opinions, and there are no guidelines on the WaPo saying you can't disagree with the blogger, or that the discussion is meant to go entirely one way. I love Troll McWingnut. From the name on down, he's great.

Sure, it helps with I agree with him about a lot of stuff, but still . . .

The slippery slope of the banhammer. Once it's starts coming down . . .

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | September 30, 2010 11:07 PM | Report abuse

"Please BAN the offending commenters SaveTheRainforest, JakeD2, Troll McWingnut, and Skipsailing28 for purposefully trying to disrupt what was an exceptional community of intellectuals"

(eyes roll)

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 30, 2010 11:07 PM | Report abuse

@Troll: "I see Bilgeman... he looks glorious! He's beckoning me into the light."

Chilled beverage of choice => Out the Nose.

Brilliant. Banning Troll would be a frickin' travesty.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | September 30, 2010 11:10 PM | Report abuse

"I love Troll McWingnut. From the name on down, he's great."

Hear hear! Troll's comments are great, and he cracks me up. And anything that lightens me up should be something the lefties should approve.

Skipsailing posts great and thoughtful comments, too. I haven't read that much Jake but see no case for banning. STRF might be a special case, but frankly I've just been scrolling past.

And let's be honest. Ethan has little room to talk.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 30, 2010 11:14 PM | Report abuse

Ethan2010 at 10:35 PM


Calm down - calm down

Are you banging pots and pans in front of your house too?


You have not engaged in civil discussion since day one.


It is all about your point of view - and no one else's. All you want is an echo chamber.

The liberal pattern is clear - they want an echo chamber.

If they see opposing views, they try name-calling and harassment in an effort to either get people to leave - or to start fights.

If the liberals do get to start the fights, they immediately blame the other side - and start claiming they are the victims.

When the conservatives refuse to fight, then the liberals get enraged and they start demanding that people get banned - censorship.

12Bar is a perfect example - offering little in terms of substance - all she does is try to start fights - in an effort to "win" - she thinks that somehow in a fight she can say the other side is "wrong" - because her positions on the issues are so bad.


Ethan - you should be banned - you clearly can not get along with other people.


In terms of inflamatory comments which seek to start fights, you are right in there, everyday - looking to stir it up with someone.


Sorry that OBAMA IS DRAGGING THE ECONOMY DOWN.


The rest of America would like its country back - which is something you simply do not understand.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 11:16 PM | Report abuse

@Ethan2010: "One of the most revered Americans in history, George Washington, was so honest that when he cut down a cherry tree as a child he said, 'I cannot tell a lie.'"

You do know that that story is apocryphal?

Alas, it is almost certain Pastor Weems fabricated that story for his biography of the great man:

http://www.suite101.com/content/washingtonscherrytree-a954

That being said, yes, Republicans do tell the truth, and many Democrats lie . . . but the reality is that most politicians are in engaged of some form of malfeasance, almost all the time. Politics is presentation, spin, PR. Everything is the political world is slanted, posed, formed, shaped and Photoshopped. Of course, liberals will find Republicans much more villainous, and Republicans vice versa, but I think it's pretty likely to both sides of the aisle talk out of both sides of their mouths. And, occasionally, let an honest-to-gosh truth slip out.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | September 30, 2010 11:19 PM | Report abuse

"I see Bilgeman... he looks glorious!

He's beckoning me into the light."

LOLOLOL! Comment of the century.

Greg would have to be insane to ban Troll.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 30, 2010 11:22 PM | Report abuse

"Even plenty of rock-ribbed conservatives are out there saying: "Okay, no, O'Donnell was clearly a mistake. How do we control the damage?""

Why not do what the Dems always do and just switch candidates at the last minute when theirs get depantsed?

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 30, 2010 11:29 PM | Report abuse

@12BarBlues :“Not only is it impractical, it is cost prohibitive.”

Rupert is right. Comprehensive immigration reform should include a path to citizenship or some form a legality for every illegal immigrant, without them having to leave the country and come back (which seems foolish and wasteful). The process of legalization should include some form of English language training (which will cost money, but would be well worth it), and better paths to legal immigration. To commence right after the last bit of the Superfence, that stretches across the entire border, from one end to the other, is done.

And we should do the same thing for the Mexican border, after we're done keeping the Canadians out. /snark

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | September 30, 2010 11:29 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues at 10:47 PM


WHO are you to say who is hated and reviled? You don't know what is going on here.


All you are doing is coming onto this blog and stirring up trouble.


You are encouraging people to fight-


Do you choose to say how much broadwayjoe, ddawd, chris fox, leichtman, drinl and the crew over there were nasty to anyone who posted ?


Yes, I have a thick skin - and I am ignoring the liberals.


Funny - that is exactly what they want to do - however I don't get on here - and say "Im ignoring this person - let's all ignore him too"


Like it is some 4th grade group of girls.


That is just about how you all are acting - like a 4th grade group of girls.


I was going to say high school - however most high schoolers are more mature than the people on this blog.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 11:30 PM | Report abuse

@qb: "Why not do what the Dems always do and just switch candidates at the last minute when theirs get depantsed?"

Makes a lot of damn sense to me. Free Mike Castle!

I understand that some of these folks are not ideal (the folks that got evicted in the primaries), but I'm not sure that giving away the Biden seat, and quite possible a sound defeat of Harry Reid, in order to have more (supposedly) ideologically pure candidates (which I'm not sure we've really got with Angle, and I'm positive we don't have with O'Donnell). Yes, Mike Castle was a RINO, but we coulda had Biden's seat.

So, in concurrence, bring him back, it's not too late!

Except it's Delaware. I don't think we're going to run into many judges who will blithely rewrite election law for the GOP, as normally happens when the Democrats need to do a last minute swap out. ;)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | September 30, 2010 11:34 PM | Report abuse

"Comprehensive immigration reform should include a path to citizenship or some form a legality for every illegal immigrant, without them having to leave the country and come back (which seems foolish and wasteful)."

Why? Just the usual, "get them to come out of the shadows"?

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 30, 2010 11:37 PM | Report abuse

What is the point of saying "comprehensive immigration reform" When you really mean "amnesty"


It seems to me that "comprehensive Immigration reform" has been focused group so that people find it agreeable.


UNTIL they find out it really means "amnesty" - then people are against it.

So the liberals are playing a word game with themselves - hoping to get a few polls in which they get people to agree to say they are in favor of a "phrase" - when really they are opposed to amnesty all the time.


Do the liberals realize there are millions of people on waiting lists around the world tring to IMMIGRATE LEGALLY?


WHY should the people who BROKE THE LAW get ahead in line in front of those who followed the LAW ???


Illegal immigrants should have to PAY for the services they use in this country - this country's willingness to be kind to them has produced TOO MANY INCENTIVES for more people to break the law and come here.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 11:38 PM | Report abuse

" as normally happens when the Democrats need to do a last minute swap out. ;)'

Indeed it does. They have built quite an impressive track record at changing the rules, nullifying the laws, and rewriting them as needed. For all of our own famed conspiracies and machinations and running of everything from behind he one-way mirror, we just don't ever seem to have the assets in place for these fixes.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 30, 2010 11:44 PM | Report abuse

Hello

Ethan2010
rukidding7
Mike from Arlington
Liam
Leichtman
12BarBlues
schroedingersCat

These posters have all been extremely hostile to others on this blog - all have refused to engage in CIVIL DISCUSSIONS.


Instead of acting like mature adults, and trying to tone down things when they get heated, these posters prefer to go nuts.


Calling for "ignoring" other posters is pretty hostile - it is an attempt to control the conversation - and discourage other posters.


If a person acted to DISCOURAGE someone from voting, wouldn't that be a Civil Rights Violation?

Just the same, if someone tried a concerted effort to DISCOURAGE someone from exercising their Freedom of Speech, wouldn't that be a Civil Rights Violation?

Anyway - these posters DO NOT respect Freedom of Speech - and they should be BANNED IMMEDIATELY.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 11:44 PM | Report abuse

Fox News Rupert Murdoch says to Congress:
'It is nonsense to talk of expelling 12 million people,' Murdoch said [speaking of the millions of people who are illegally residing in the U.S.]

“Not only is it impractical, it is cost prohibitive.”

Murdoch cited a study that shows a path to legalization would contribute about $1.5 trillion to the gross domestic product over the next decade.

Murdoch said: “I have no problem in supporting what I’m saying today on Fox News, nor would the great number of commentators on Fox News.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0910/42944.html#ixzz11282IlWx

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 11:45 PM | Report abuse

QB1 and Kevin,

I'm awfully flattered and I appreciate your comments. At least we'll always have my snideness.

As far as Delaware goes. I gotta say I care less about a Senate majority at any cost and more about the Party learning a lesson in TopDown dictates (or dictats). Chairmanships mean nothing to me, at least until afte 2012, and Barry is defeated. I just had/have a feeling Castle would end up a being another, can't remember his name, the dude from Rhode Island. Anyway, I think the TeaParty and it's candidates, while far from perfect, have had a profoundly positive effect on, for example, the Maine sisters. Linconn Chafee, that's who I meant, a RINO who did, I think, more damage to the Republican brand even if he did vote for Frist as Majority leader.

I'm also in favor, for what it's worth, in a "little revolutiom" now and then. It's something that I think our lefty friends attempted in Arkansas. I'd like to see more of that, from both parties. A citizens takeover if you will, or at least an injection of a little "free range" electorate DNA into the party. That's gonna result in a few freaks, like JD Hayworth, (he was a bridge to far for me, though John Shedagg might have been a better choice there) or O'Donnell.

And finally, we are talking about Delaware here, the state that has elected Joe Biden for the last forty years (and a nice example of the quality of Barry's decision making abilities). It's not like were talking about a very high bar here.

I also would like to have the opportunity, if I'm gonna be banned, to go out in a blaze of glory ala posters at LittleGreenFootballs during the Great U-Turn. One can dream.

And Ethan2010. I.Didn't.Know.You.Cared.So.Much.And.Found.Me.So.Compelling.You.Couldn't.Resist.And.Scroll.Past.Me. I'm.Honored.

As Allen Ginsberg said: "I have seen the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving, hysterical, naked.."

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | September 30, 2010 11:54 PM | Report abuse

"It took time to free the slaves

It took time to give women the vote

It took time to give workers the right to unionize."

The only problem with that is Obama isn't doing ANYTHING on the scale of those things.

Obama messed up the health care bill - now we have massive PREMIUM INCREASES, and economic distortions and massive deficits are ON THE WAY.

Obama is completely lost - he has no idea what he is doing -

Obama is INEXPERIENCE AND UNQUALIFIED.

The Presidency is NO PLACE FOR ON-THE-JOB TRAINING. And it doesn't look like Obama is going to be able to learn in any event.


The nation is in an ECONOMIC CRISIS - the nation needs someone who knows what he is doing.


"IT TAKES TIME TO VOTE OUT CONGRESS"


"IT TAKES TIME TO VOTE OUT OBAMA"


"IT TAKES TIME TO TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK"


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 30, 2010 11:56 PM | Report abuse

SavetheRainforest,

Permit me, please, to jot down a few thoughts regarding, uh, you.

I'm a conservative. I'm usually aware of the current & historical facts and record of the persons or policies that encompass the POV and scope of the right, and center-right. Very, very few of your posts contain insight or information (or link for goodness sake!) that is new, at least to me.

My observation is that when those here of the left engage you it's not because it's interesting or fun. It's because you are pluperfectly annoying, and one naturally wants to make something irritating stop.

Do you understand that you don't persuade anyone here. Especially me. You do inimitable harm here to the cause of ordered, limited, constitutional government.

That indicates to me that you care nothing about the cause.

You care only to display what you consider your own brilliance and command...to yourself.

And you will end talking to yourself only, a condition with which, I am very confident, you are painfully and likely eternally familiar.

Please do the conservative, honorable, humane, even Christian thing: Amend and reform your approach to dialogue at this forensic venue.

Or...Ban Yourself.

Posted by: tao9 | September 30, 2010 11:57 PM | Report abuse

troll,

You can't be serious--you are not going to be banned. My guess that no one will be banned-- with some exception for STRF who irritates everyone and Jake because he's dumb enough to declare he delights in taking down blogs. Don't worry about STRF. He'll change his handle three times a day to get back on. He won't go anywhere unless his IP is blocked.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 30, 2010 11:59 PM | Report abuse


Democrats

One thing about George Bush Sr - in 1992 he complained about Clinton - saying that if the nation elected him, the country's economy would start looking like the economy in Arkansas.

I really didn't believe him at the time - and I thought he was getting a little carried away.

However, look at every MAIN STREET in this country. Clinton's Free Trade deals have destroyed small businesses all over the nation. These deals of Clinton have thrown millions out of work.

YOU all forget that Hillary was on the board at Wal-Mart - and who is bringing all those Chinese goods in now?

Then Hillary decided she was going to be Senator from New York -

All of a sudden, DERIVIATIVES WERE DEREGULATED, the Glass Steagall was repealed, and Fannie Ma and Freddie Mac were packed with long-term Clinton appointeees.

HOW did those go for you?

Hillary funded three campaigns, two for the NY Senate, and one presidential campaign.


The DEMOCRATS SOLD YOU OUT.


THAT is exactly what people are saying about OBAMA - he is too close to special interests - that the special interests got the BEST OF THE HEALTH CARE DEALS.


OBAMA SOLD YOU OUT.


Does the nation's economy look more like Arkansas's economy now???


I would have NEVER believed it - but the TRUTH IS YES.


YOU ALL HAVE BEEN FOOLED BY OBAMA - and you sit on this blog night after night touting silly things - and complaining about other people.


YOU HAVE BEEN FOOLED - THE DEMOCRATS SOLD YOU OUT - AND YOU REFUSE TO LISTEN.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 1, 2010 12:05 AM | Report abuse

12Bar,

You're a good egg. heh

Posted by: tao9 | October 1, 2010 12:09 AM | Report abuse

Tao writes

You do inimitable harm here to the cause of ordered, limited, constitutional government.

_________________________________

That is the most hilarious line ever - a blog is not going to change the course of anything - much less to such a cause.


Did you ever consider that I am really an anarchist ?

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 1, 2010 12:11 AM | Report abuse

12bar,

Shhhhhh, I wanna spend the rest the evening wallowing in martyrdom.

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | October 1, 2010 12:14 AM | Report abuse

Tao

The democrats sold you out - when will you realize that ????


ONE day - this country will realize how both parties have sold out to all the money being thrown into Washington.


We don't have an "ordered, limited constitutional" government.


We have a government RUN BY THE MONEY.


80% of the politicians are hiding behind GERRYMANDERED DISTRICTS WHICH SHIELD THEM FROM THE PEOPLE - the AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE VIRTUALLY NO CONTROL OVER THESE DISTRICTS.


The government has gone ROGUE A LONG TIME AGO.


WAKE UP.

WAKE UP.

WAKE UP.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 1, 2010 12:16 AM | Report abuse

Maybe the crux of the STRF problem is that a lot of people who post here are serious. But, as someone says, to STRF, this is just performance art.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 1, 2010 12:16 AM | Report abuse

@qb: "Why? Just the usual, 'get them to come out of the shadows'?"

Nah, because deporting them to reimporting them would be more expensive, and the American tax payer would end up footing the bill. I think it would lead to the best possible outcome, and I think we should only sign up for it when there's a Superfence stretching from one into the other, appropriate equipped so climbing, scaling, hitting, or trying to cut through (or drive through it) immediately trips sensors and reports locations.

A small price to pay for a border that's actually reasonably secure.

And you can't tell me there's no way to have something that can just scan cars and trucks to see if there's a dozen people hidden in 'em. ;)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 1, 2010 12:18 AM | Report abuse

@troll,

Sorry, I didn't realize you were like in your suffering stage.

Well, when you decide to climb down off the cross, you'll still be part of the blog.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 1, 2010 12:20 AM | Report abuse

12bAR

it is not performance art


It is resistance.


You blindly follow the party line - because for some reason you believe your little interest group will get something in the end.


HOW has that worked for you? BETRAYAL.


The people who fight for the parties - they are all FOOLS -


The party insiders are NOT FIGHTING WITH EACH OTHER -


There is ONLY ONE PARTY - THE MONEY PARTY - they take special interest money - and you get nothing.


The money CONTROLS the government - you don't.

YOU have been FOOLED INTO believing that you should fight with other people - over issues the party INSIDERS COULD CARE LESS ABOUT.

It is all a joke - the MONEY HAS A MONOPOLY ON THE GOVERNMENT.


They sold you out - they are selling you out - AND THEY WILL SELL YOU OUT AGAIN.


Everything is for sale -

You are being a fool to believe otherwise. Fire Dog Lake just got sick of the whole thing -


Because they got SOLD OUT.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 1, 2010 12:22 AM | Report abuse

@Troll: "As far as Delaware goes. I gotta say I care less about a Senate majority at any cost and more about the Party learning a lesson in TopDown dictates (or dictats)."

Understood. And I largely agree, although I think O'Donnell was a bridge to far in terms of just raw low quality. I bring up the comparisons with Alvin Greene for a reason. ;)

That being said, the Tea Party got us Nikki Haley in South Carolina, and she is, without a doubt, the best candidate we could have hoped for in a state with a very corrupt GOP, and I don't think that shakeup would have started without the Tea Party. So, we may have to sort through a little chaff to get the wheat.

Generally though, I agree that a little revolution is good, and that sometimes the price we pay for avoiding ossification in all the halls of DC is a few crappy candidates on both sides. I just like to be able to honestly assess the crappiness of a given candidate without being a "traitor to the cause".

Sometimes, I think it's counter productive--like Ned Lamont against Joe Leiberman. And I don't mind having some RINOs in the party--even when he was a maverick, McCain voted with the party, like, 89% of the time. Or a little more. Leiberman voted with the Democrats 90% of the time. Just good to keep these things in perspective, is all I'm saying.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 1, 2010 12:27 AM | Report abuse

I was thinking more along the lines of...

Nihilist.

Ban Yourself.

Posted by: tao9 | October 1, 2010 12:27 AM | Report abuse

@STRF,

You are like a guy standing on a mountain shrieking his lungs out. You don't interact with people--you shout slogans. You might even be right at times, but you are such a loner, and no one wants to interact with a guy who just stands there and shouts.

I know you won't get it because I'll bet you've done this for years. When people who agree with your basic ideology are bored with your style, that SHOULD tell you something.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 1, 2010 12:29 AM | Report abuse

@STRF: Yes, you are clearly an anarchist.

Again, that would fit pretty well with the "performance art" thing.

I second Tao. The ultimate act of anarchy would be to self-ban yourself.

That would show us. That would show us all!

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 1, 2010 12:31 AM | Report abuse

lms, I said it before and I'll say it again: you are a saint. Or as close as we're going to get around here.

The brains and humility, the commitment to principles and care for fellow citizens (right and left), plus her tireless work on behalf of her family.

Most of the rest of us -- Mike, ruk, sue, jenn, tao, bbq, sg, wbgonne, Ethan, Liam, and even Greg and the wingers, sbj qb, scott, kevin -- are just flawed and pathetic in comparison. Especially ruk and tao. So, so flawed.

So, thanks Lulu. Honored to be associated with you.

As someone in a movie once said: I'd rather spend time with you people than with the finest people in the world.

Posted by: BGinCHI | October 1, 2010 12:32 AM | Report abuse

Sheeit: I forgot Bernie in my list. And Andy. Apologies to all I've overlooked. Not done on purpose.

Posted by: BGinCHI | October 1, 2010 12:35 AM | Report abuse

Kevin,

I'm not buying the whole "out of the shadows" thing. My neighbor's a deputy sheriff who picks up illegal day laborer's to work on a backyard remodel. He shows up in his patrol car at the local Home Depot and transports them in it. No one runs.

I propose, once the border is as secure as we can get it, that we regularize those here that crossed illegally, green card etc., but not make them citizens unless they go back, and get in the back of the line. They can stay, they'll be legal, I just don't think they should be granted citizenship just because they cheated in gettings here. Let's reserve that privelage for those that come the right way.

Probably never go anywhere alas. I think the Democrats (and Republicans) underestimate their fellow citizen's ability to absorb and even welcome immigrants. The concern is, if we regularize the 12 million that are here now, without doing anything serious about border security, we'll get 12 million more. (See Reagan Amnesty circa 1986) I think people understand that intuitively. We're not looking for perfection, just a real effort, not a show effort.

Otherwise, don't even pretend to secure the border and go back to 19th century open immigration. Which is kind of what we have now really. If you can get here, you more or less can stay.

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | October 1, 2010 12:37 AM | Report abuse

@troll,

Now that you've quit bleeding--

Theoretically, I agree with your idea. Send back illegals to stand in back of the line. Otherwise, the message is once you get here, you get to stay. Agreed. That is the message.

I'm a pragmatist. How are we going to get 12 million people to leave? I don't see that happening, no matter how good an idea it is.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 1, 2010 12:44 AM | Report abuse

12BarBlues at 12:29 AM


You don't even talk about the issues anymore


All you do is try to stir up trouble.


You are not serious at all -


How do you get 12 million people to leave? ENFORCE THE LAW - tell the police to CHECK EVERYONE'S ID


Fine the employers- STOP THEM FROM WORKING


That will end it. They will leave.


We have been TOO NICE to the illegal aliens - they NOW ACT LIKE THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE HERE - THEY ARE ILLEGAL.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 1, 2010 12:57 AM | Report abuse

12bar,

Agreed, you're not going to deport 12 million, nor are you going to effectively prohibit their employment, at least not for very long. I might not have been very clear, these tears of anguish can blur the vision. I'm saying that, once we're (the collective we) comfortable that the border is as secure as we can get it, and we have established a reasonable way to track those here on a visa, we regularize those that are already here (illegally) . We give them a green card and the ability to work. Maybe even eligible for limited social security, etc. (it's negotiable) but we do not allow those just regularized, to become citizens unless they go back to their country of origin and apply like everybody else. I guess I just don't want to confer citizenship to those that flouted the rules. I'm not for kicking them out or even depriving them of an ability to make a living, just the right to vote and participate in the running of the country until they go to the "back of the line" and do it legally. Call it a penance before citizenship. Obviously, those born here are citizens, I'm not going all "Lindsy Graham I'm for reinterpreting the 14th Amendment until John McCain's re-election is secure".

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | October 1, 2010 1:00 AM | Report abuse

Saint - saint - a real saint

That one is really hilarious.


Few of you want to defend Obama -

You don't want to defend Obama's lies.

You don't want to defend how SOFT on terrorism Obama is

You don't want to defend the health insurance INCREASES

You don't want to defend anything about Obama.

Just complain about someone who is point out how bad it is -


Obama can't get people to his rallies anymore - he is down to BACKYARDS AND LIBERAL COLLEGE CAMPUSES.


Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 1, 2010 1:01 AM | Report abuse

STR, with all sincerity and due respect:

Go FUUUCK Yourself.

Idiot.

The day you leave this blog, the happier it will be.

And just so you know, except for that last one, I ALWAYS ignore your posts. Period.

Night all. I'm trolled out.

Posted by: BGinCHI | October 1, 2010 1:05 AM | Report abuse

The Kentucky buy appears to have been only held a week. Hotline reported an update.

Posted by: chopperjc | October 1, 2010 1:06 AM | Report abuse

ANOTHER OBAMA SCANDAL


A wind farm in Missouri that got a $107 million stimulus grant is generating some turbulence for two prominent Democratic candidates, Robin Carnahan, the state’s Democratic Senate candidate and her brother, Rep. Russ Carnahan.

The wind farm is a project of Wind Capital Group of St. Louis, whose president, CEO and founder is the Carnahans’ brother, Tom Carnahan.

107 MILLION DOLLAR GRANT - not a loan - given to a family member of a DEMOCRATIC SENATE CANDIDATE IN MISSOURI ????

The stimulus money was wasted folks.


Obama has no idea what he is doing.


The nation deserves investigations into where the $800 Billion went - and if any was spent improperly, those people should go to jail.


It is that simple.


______________________

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 1, 2010 1:09 AM | Report abuse

I do not really understand the fear of undocumented workers. Like some sort of boogieman. Oh but they cost us so much money???? Well not really here is a recent article which spells it out pretty good.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/09/AR2010090902874.html

So then I guess it is about security. Well what if I told you that crime is way down in border states? Once again that boogieman behind the corner you know the one that says AZ is the kidnapping capital of the world is untrue. Here is an article with the statistics.

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-04-29/justice/arizona.immigration.crime_1_sen-russell-pearce-illegal-immigration-immigration-law?_s=PM:CRIME

So there are the two reasons you fear shot to hell. So lets look at this from the rational side. Bush actually had a decent plan for a path to citizenship, a guest worker program, and a national ID card. Now the left screamed about the ID card but they were willing to suck it up on that one and let the courts decide. The teabaggers called it amnesty and wanted nothing to do with it. Meanwhile if you were to institute an easy fix and penalize employers for hiring illegals the business community screamed and threatened 5 dollar heads of lettuce. Think about what in reality it would do to the economy. Food bills would rise by some estimates 40%. I'll bet Meg Whitman wishes she paid the 40% ha ha. Needless to say Dole, Tropicana, Purdue, Hillshire, Monsanto, and many other powerful lobbies are not going to let that happen. So reasonably what you going to do?

The AZ law (papers please) is a bad law in my opinion. I believe it would be ruled unconstitutional at the federal level. At the state level it has many other problems which it will not overcome. You know the constitution and all. Why is it when republicans do not like something the blame it on activist judges or they want to change the constitution. Your good friend the Dr. called the government suing the state unprecedented. Yeah........ not so much. State laws are challenged all the time at the federal level. You have to look at the whole picture. Our immigration laws have been screwed up for so long there are no easy fixes. It will take some rational thought and compromises on all sides to get it done. Needless to say the constant xenophobia will not help.

I ask you to look at history and see what other arguments have been in America. The issue is not new. The things you are saying now have been said time and time again by legislators and presidents. Irish, Jews, Germans, Italians, Japanese, Chinese all have been persecuted. In the end common sense finally won. We need common sense solutions not prejudice.

In closing it is funny. More money, more boots on the ground, and more technology has been used by this administration than any other. Undocumented crossings are way down as well. These are facts not hyperbole. Any credit to this administration from the right for doing this???? I did not think so.

Posted by: chopperjc | October 1, 2010 1:16 AM | Report abuse

BGinCHI at 1:05 AM

Instead of cursing at people, why don't you go down to the Board of Elections and try to help Rahm Emanuel figure out how he is going to convince people he has been REALLY living in Chicago since February?

Meanwhile, if you want to keep a closed brain, go ahead.


The pathway to enlightment is to read my postings ...... all of them.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 1, 2010 1:16 AM | Report abuse

Hey guys, once again...trolls have been put here on the intertubes by a loving God so that we might better understand how not to waste our time. It's a simple lesson and we ought to thank Him for it.

Now, here's an interesting tidbit. TP notes a statement by Rove today when he was on Hannity's radio show...

"ROVE: If she wins, the moment that she began to win was the moment she appeared on your television program and you asked her the tough questions and rather than ignoring them as she had in the past she confronted them and put these character questions in the most sympathetic light possible. So if she wins, she’s going to have to come come back and thank you profusely for having gotten her on the right course. You can’t solve a problem without acknowledging the problem and on your program she acknowledged the problem and put them in the most favorable light."

At first glance, this might seem like ass-kissing but it isn't. Note that Rove repeats "IF she wins" twice. IF she wins, Hannity gets/deserves the kudos.

But Rove knows that she won't and he knows they are less likely to gain the Senate as a consequence. Rove is the numbers guy (and good at it) and Hannity is a propaganda flack.

The least interesting part of this is Rove covering his ass. The other side to what Rove is saying is, "If she loses and we lose the Senate then you, Hannity-doofus and you other voices who yelled at me, will be correctly judged as idiots." Rove has been playing the solidarity role for the obvious reasons but what he really thinks was evident in what he said on Hannity the night she won.

The more interesting part of this is the simmering grudge match between Rove on the one hand and Hannity/Palin/O'Donnell/Limbaugh/Tea Party nutcases on the other.

How do you think Rove would have received the spanking he got from Palin?

This Republican insider catfight will be something to keep your eye on.

Posted by: bernielatham | October 1, 2010 2:48 AM | Report abuse

RU, lmisnca, Mikefromarlington, bg, if you're around, mind sending me an email?

Posted by: Greg Sargent | October 1, 2010 6:30 AM | Report abuse

Well, doggone it, I largely agree with Troll's immigration comments. I can see no reason, no reason at all to grant citizenship to anyone unless and until they self-deport and get in line, and there should be no increase in immigration quotas or speeding up the line. Even if we can't deport everyone (and I think this is a big exaggeration), we certainly don't have to give them citizenship and shouldn't.

But unlike Troll or Kevin I do think our acceptance of jus soli needs to be changed. It is debatable what the 14th means in this regard, but the fact is that today we have millions of babies born to illegals, who sometimes even snuck in for this very purpose. It's really ludicrous to confer birthright citizenship in this case, and even more ludicrous to allow that citizenship to be used as an anchor to acquire status for family members. This is far different even from the situation of babies born to legal but noncitizen immigrants, and cannot reasonably be viewed as part of the purpose of the 14th.

On Delaware, I'm am largely with Troll. On the whole, I think the GOP and the country would almost be better off in the long run for the GOP not to take majority control now but merely to have enough votes to prevent further damage from Obama. This was the Dems' strategy with Bush. They obstructed any real change and then blamed Bush (successfully) for everything from bad TV to cold season, and were rewarded. The only downside for the GOP would be the expectations have been raised so high that anything short of taking majorities will be painted as failure and ambivalence by the public.

And it would be a shame to have a Dem elected in Delaware and become entrenched, missing a big chance to get a Rep in place there. I haven't followed O'D that closely, but I suspect Kevin is right that she probably isn't the real deal to begin with but more of a flaky opportunist. Her lawsuit was about all I needed to hear to write her off and any actual conservative.

That being said, I can only laugh at the leftwing feeding frenzy. She's no more shallow, flaky, or dishonest than many, many Dems including Biden himself. The guy is a walking gaffe machine and serial liar. Doesnt stop Dems from pretending he is some sort of statesman. LOL the very thought is preoposterous.

Posted by: quarterback1 | October 1, 2010 7:00 AM | Report abuse

"So there are the two reasons you fear shot to hell."

Balderdash. There are more than two reasons, and a couple of articles purporting to declare those two wrong fall somewhere short of conclusive. If your family member were one of the people murdered by an illegal or killed by a drunk illegal, I don't think you would find it a nonissue.

And then there are the other reasons. Immigration levels are ostensibly controlled for a reason -- we can't assimilate an open flood. Look at what is happening in LA and other areas of the West and South in particular that are becoming next to ungovernable, where "communities" of illegals are even defying police enforcement, and officials are bowing to their demands. There is a burgeoning ethnic separatist movement led by professional radicals who in reality or in effect do not accept the legitimacy of the United States government. It's foolish to pretend that these trends don't exist or are harmless just because "this is the USA" and we are somehow immune to forces of social and political disintegration that have affected the rest of the world throughout history.

Posted by: quarterback1 | October 1, 2010 7:22 AM | Report abuse

@Greg: "RU, lmisnca, Mikefromarlington, bg, if you're around, mind sending me an email?"

Well, I'm here, but I guess you don't want an email from me. ;) QB is here, too. Just sayin'. What are we? Chopped liver?

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 1, 2010 7:53 AM | Report abuse

"The AZ law (papers please) is a bad law in my opinion. I believe it would be ruled unconstitutional at the federal level."

Not if the law is consistently applied. The AZ law simply doesn't conflict with federal law. And your "papers please" characterization shows that your "analysis" is not a serious one. The case borders on being frivolous.

"Any credit to this administration from the right for doing this???? I did not think so."

Not really, not when the trends to which you refer are no more than a continuation, and this admin has mounted a full assault on a border state for daring to enforce the law (indeed has denounced it internationally) and apparently has developed or is developing a formal strategy of nonenforcement, based on the draft memos that were leaked.

Posted by: quarterback1 | October 1, 2010 8:03 AM | Report abuse

Our two Persians are very fond of chopped liver and stare blank-eyed when my wife uses the idiom.

Still, I appreciate that you and QB aren't Persians (in this climate, a very good thing for both of you) and so I invite both of you, if bereft in this exclusion, to send me an email. I will print them out and then, as they are my private property, do whatever I wish to them. But communicating is always a risky enterprise, as you both know.

Posted by: bernielatham | October 1, 2010 8:07 AM | Report abuse

"What are we? Chopped liver?"

I wish! According to the person calling for bannings, I am the lowest scum on Earth. Nazi lowest scum, in fact. Among other things lower than chopped liver.

Posted by: quarterback1 | October 1, 2010 8:10 AM | Report abuse

@qb: "I wish! According to the person calling for bannings, I am the lowest scum on Earth. Nazi lowest scum, in fact."

Oh, that's just Ethan. That's just "his way". ;)

@bernie: " so I invite both of you, if bereft in this exclusion, to send me an email"

To: bernie@bitbucket.com. I've sent it into the ether. It says: "Hey. Whassup?"

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 1, 2010 8:17 AM | Report abuse

I've always wondered what it means to be "low" or "lowest" scum. I gather it refers to quality as opposed to location or strata.

Posted by: quarterback1 | October 1, 2010 8:23 AM | Report abuse

All, Morning Roundup posted;

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/10/the_morning_plum_102.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | October 1, 2010 8:32 AM | Report abuse

Kevin - "into the ether" is an idiom I first bumped into when I was about 12. It took a fair while, back then, for me to get that figured out. But it was a science/history matter and I could be excused. More embarrassing was all the things I got up to (about the same time) when someone described the truth of a passage as to be found if one "read between the lines".

Posted by: bernielatham | October 1, 2010 8:45 AM | Report abuse

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