Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity

Labor Day Roundup

Hey all, a few links to get warmed up before resuming full-time blogging tomorrow morning...

* New product! President Obama is set to kick off this fall by rolling out a new plan to invest in infrastructure spending, and he will also call for a $100 billion business tax credit.

* But the dilemma remains: It's unlikely any policies Democrats present will reverse the sputtering recovery before election day, which has left Dems grappling with the challenge of how to frame an election-year message on the economy when the economy, on their watch, is weak.

* And a new CNN poll finds that the GOP has taken a seven point lead in the generic Congressional matchup.

* But: The CNN internals show that a majority, 54 percent, says their vote this fall will not be about sending Obama a message, raising questions about the degree to which the elections will really be a national referendum on Obama policies.

Prediction: This number will be uniformly ignored.

* Indeed, as I've noted here repeatedly, it is preordained that the expected Dem shellacking this fall will be widely interpreted as proof that Obama's agenda was too ambitious and too "liberal."

* Question of the day: Is Obama entirely to blame for today's polarizing environment, or is it possible that those claiming Obama harbors a secret socialist agenda and sneaking sympathies for the Muslim world might also be partly responsible?

* A quick and useful overview of where and why the Tea Party has become a liabilty for the GOP, though it's unclear whether the Dem strategy of elevating the Tea Party is working nationally.

* Gaffe of the day: The GOP candidate for Robert Byrd's Senate seat used footage of Byrd's memorial service in an ad attacking the Dem opponent.

* This is a few days old, but Sharron Angle apparently said extending unemployment benefits "really doesn't benefit anyone." Again: Isn't it possible she actually believes the things she says?

* Joe Klein predicts a surreptious campaign by military leaders to get Obama to back off on Afghanistan deadlines by portraying him as weak and indecisive on the war in the runup to the midterms.

* And Sarah Palin describes a gay reporter as "impotent" and "limp." But she's a rock star!

What else is happening? And what else should I be focusing on?

By Greg Sargent  |  September 6, 2010; 9:29 AM ET
Categories:  2010 elections , Foreign policy and national security , House Dems , House GOPers , Senate Dems , Senate Republicans , Tea Party , economy  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Sunday Open Thread
Next: The Morning Plum

Comments

Happy Labor Day to everyone!

"Prediction: This number will be uniformly ignored."

Totally. The conventional wisdom has been established in the village.

Posted by: schrodingerscat | September 6, 2010 9:41 AM | Report abuse

For Labor: on our day.

The words still ring true, to describe what is being done to labor now.

Give it a listen.

The Ballad Of The Ordinary Man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsmAMKUIXbE

Posted by: Liam-still | September 6, 2010 9:43 AM | Report abuse

Labor Day Resolution: I will not click on any Palin gossip link. Ever.

Posted by: converse | September 6, 2010 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Hey all, good to be back. Thanks to you commenters for keeping the convo going.

Posted by: Greg Sargent | September 6, 2010 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Here's a website launch in honor of Labor Day from the Dept. of Labor. It's a new job search site which might be interesting. I've emailed the link to all the people I know looking for work.

http://www.myskillsmyfuture.org/

Posted by: lmsinca | September 6, 2010 10:12 AM | Report abuse

"those claiming Obama harbors a secret socialist agenda and sneaking sympathies for the Muslim world"

Who said they are secret or sneaking?

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 6, 2010 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Liamaleen Ogh,

The American take, from the best roots album ever made (Ever!); Steve Earle & the Del McCoury Band, "The Mountain.":

I’m a Harlan Man
Went down in the mine when I was barely grown
It was easy then
Cause I didn’t know what I know now
But I’m a family man
And it’s the only life that I’ve ever known
But I’m a Harlan Man
Just as long as my luck and lungs hold out

I’m a mountain man
Born in east Kentucky and here I’ll stay
And if it’s the good Lord’s plan
I’ll wake up in the mornin’ and find
I’m lookin’ at the end
Of another long week and I can draw my pay
Cause I’m a Harlan Man
Never catch me whinin’ cause I ain’t that kind

I’m a union man
Just like my daddy and all my kin
I took a union stand
No matter what the company said
I got me two good hands
And just as long as I’m able I won’t give in
Cause I’m a Harlan Man
A coal minin’ mother til the day I’m dead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA-y-4n7_fc

Posted by: tao9 | September 6, 2010 10:57 AM | Report abuse

lms:

You were talking the other day about books to read. I don't read a whole lot of fiction, but one of my favorites is "Sometimes a Great Notion" by Ken Kesey. If you've never read it, you should. Big themes, great characters, and a unique style.

Posted by: ScottC3 | September 6, 2010 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Thanks Scott, I read Cuckoo's Nest and loved it but never read this one. I alternate between fiction and non-fiction and very often have two or three books going on at the same time. I tend to reward myself for a productive day by reading non-fiction and I've picked this book up several times and put it back, not sure why. It's very difficult to decide what to read and as I get older the list just keeps getting longer.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 6, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

ScotC3: "All the Union wants is it's fair advantage."

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | September 6, 2010 11:58 AM | Report abuse

My best assessment is that the $ 100B in business tax incentives for jobs and the $ 50B in infrastructure will have about the same "bang" as the original $ 800 Billion stimulus package.


The democrats ripped off the American People 650 Billion in unnecessary spending and diversion to democratic pet projects.

The democrats were NOT serious about the original stimulus - they thought it was a giant piggy-bank and that they could do all these crazy projects.

The nation was promised a "job-tracking" website - which would track all the job creation.


Well, that "job-tracking" website has not been updated in a long, long time - too few jobs were being created - and Obama didn't even want to keep the people who were supposed to do the "tracking" employed.


The democrats' and Obama's management of the economy has been nothing more than a JOKE.


And then Obama goes off and writes a 2,000 page health care bill which is nothing less than a DRAG ON HIRING.


AND then Obama passes a Financial Regulation bill which does nothing to deal with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - completely ineffective - oh, but it did include secret provisions creating affirmative action enforcement offices which will sue companies.

Congratulations - EVERYTHING the democrats have done has been INEFFECTIVE.


A monkey throwing darts at the wall could have put together a more effective original stimulus bill.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 6, 2010 12:04 PM | Report abuse

tao...Didn't realize you were such a music aficionado. I certainly agree with your observations about Steve Earle. My broadcasting career included a stop in Bristol TN/VA for a dozen years. Heart of Appalachia. Bristol Tennessee's favorite son..Tennessee Ernie Ford had a great song about the plight of miners that actually crossed over to the top 40 charts. I remember this ditty well from my childhood.
But it too is a great tune to consider on "Labor Day"..especially if you've ever spent time in the Appalachian coal fields.

16TONS

Some people say a man is made outta mud
A poor man's made outta muscle and blood
Muscle and blood and skin and bones
A mind that's a-weak and a back that's strong

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

I was born one mornin' when the sun didn't shine
I picked up my shovel and I walked to the mine
I loaded sixteen tons of number nine coal
And the straw boss said "Well, a-bless my soul"

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

I was born one mornin', it was drizzlin' rain
Fightin' and trouble are my middle name
I was raised in the canebrake by an ol' mama lion
Cain't no-a high-toned woman make me walk the line

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

If you see me comin', better step aside
A lotta men didn't, a lotta men died
One fist of iron, the other of steel
If the right one don't a-get you
Then the left one will

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 6, 2010 12:11 PM | Report abuse

ScotC3: "All the Union wants is it's fair advantage."

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | September 6, 2010 11:58 AM
====================

Both of you should read about the The Triangle Shirtwaist Fire of 1911.

http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/trianglefire/narrative1.html
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | September 6, 2010 12:13 PM | Report abuse

BTW...credit where credit is due...The "Ole Peapicker" Tennessee Ernie had the hit song but it was written by the legendary Merle Travis.

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 6, 2010 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Someone should write a country song about all those stimulus jobs that people SHOULD have but don't.


...............................


"Congress gave Obama money to hire me
But a funny thing happened to the gig"


Obama started to spend the money
On batteries to make green cars.


Obama spend the money on windmills
and the money just spun in the wind


Obama started to spend the money
On cars that cost twice as much


Obams started to spend the money
and the American People never got the gigs


My dog ran away - it came back
But I never got my Obama gig


My wife left - she came back
But I never got my Obama gig


My pickup wouldn't start - and now it does
But I never got my Obama gig

.........................

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 6, 2010 12:19 PM | Report abuse

"The American take, from the best roots album ever made (Ever!); Steve Earle & the Del McCoury Band, "The Mountain.":"

Totally agree with the sentiment. It's a great, great, great cd!

Posted by: schrodingerscat | September 6, 2010 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Obviously, Obama's two favorite holidays are Labor Day - to honor the socialist workers of the world -


and Ramadan - when he gets to support mosques at Ground Zero.


Obama hasn't joined a church since moving to Washington, but he is hosting Ramadan dinners at the White House.


You decide -



.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 6, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

The St. Pete Times ran an excellent piece from Andrew Bacevich...a retired military officer who is now an author and college instructor. It was from his book..."American Rules:America's Path to Permanent War"
It describes how we arrived at the mess we now find ourselves in...literally trillions of dollars on unnecessary military interventionism. It not only wastes our precious lives and resources, it's totally against what used to be our core values and principles.

Fareed Zakaria has an article out along those same lines about how we overreacted to 9/11. It's a great read IF YOU HAVE AN OPEN MIND.

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/09/04/zakaria-why-america-overreacted-to-9-11.html

" Since September 11, 2001, the U.S. government has created or reconfigured at least 263 organizations to tackle some aspect of the war on terror. The amount of money spent on intelligence has risen by 250 percent, to $75 billion (and that’s the public number, which is a gross underestimate). THAT'S MORE THAN THE REST OF THE WORLD SPENDS PUT TOGETHERThat’s more than the rest of the world spends put together. Thirty-three new building complexes have been built for intelligence bureaucracies alone, occupying 17 million square feet—the equivalent of 22 U.S. Capitols or three Pentagons. Five miles southeast of the White House, the largest government site in 50 years is being built—at a cost of $3.4 billion—to house the largest bureaucracy after the Pentagon and the Department of Veterans Affairs: the Department of Homeland Security, which has a workforce of 230,000 people."

Funny how conservatives are against big government and bloated bureaucracies...EXCEPT when they are for big government and bloated bureaucracies.

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 6, 2010 1:15 PM | Report abuse

BTW...Zakaria and Bacevich are not the first to warn of the dangers of war...James Madison chimed in early on the subject...

“Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germs of every other … In war, too, the discretionary power of the executive is extended, and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people.

“No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual war,” Madison concluded.

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 6, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

McWing:

I see you've read it.

Never give an inch.

Posted by: ScottC3 | September 6, 2010 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Scott, I know what it's about.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 6, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

lms:

"I read Cuckoo's Nest and loved it but never read this one."

What made me think of it was all the recent talk about unions. The story is about a logging town in Oregon in the midst of a labor strike, focusing on a stubborn and dysfunctional logging family, the Stampers, which refuses to toe the union line.

I think it is Kesey's finest work.

Posted by: ScottC3 | September 6, 2010 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Sorry...didn't see your last before posting.

Posted by: ScottC3 | September 6, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

ScottC3, I agree that's Kesey's best work and one of the best novels to come out of the '60's. Kesey had a collection of short storys published called Demon Box, and in it was a story called The Day Superman Died about him hearing that Neal Cassady had died. I've always thought that ranked second to 'Notion and before Cuckoo's Nest. Did you ever read it?

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | September 6, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

LABOR DAY MATHEMATICS


Let's just make s simple calculation with the $ 800 Billion stimulus bill.


If the democrats had created jobs at $30,000 - and if ALL the $ 800 Billion went to job creation.


That would be 26 MILLION JOBS.


The unemployment RATE is 9.6 - that is ONLY 15 MILLION PEOPLE.


Feel free to take out a calculator and calculate it yourself.

Obama could have HIRED EVERY UNEMPLOYED PERSON IN THE COUNTRY - FOR 30K a year - and still had 352 BILLION LEFT OVER.

And no one would have had unemployment payments.

AND the underemployed could have been HIRED AS WELL.

EVERY UNEMPLOYED PERSON IN THE COUNTRY COULD HAVE BEEN HIRED WITH THE MONEY CONGRESS GAVE OBAMA.

OUCH.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 6, 2010 1:46 PM | Report abuse

McWing:

"Did you ever read it?"

Nope. I'll have to check and see if I can get it on my Kindle.

Posted by: ScottC3 | September 6, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

The simile of the day comes from someone identifying themselves as "panhandlepundit" in response to a St. Pete Times article on the proposals to increase jobs in Florida by D Alex Sink and R Rick Scott.

Florida already has one of the poorest funded and poorest paying unemployment systems in our nation. Rick Scott's plan...gut an already inferior portion of the so called safety net. Of course when you've scammed over 300 million in personal wealth as the result of Medicare/medicaid fraud you don't need a safety net.

But here is the commenters simile which could probably be applied to a lot of voter decisions...

"The sad truth is that some of the unemployed are going to vote for this charlatan. They're like chickens volunteering to work for Colonel Sanders."

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 6, 2010 2:00 PM | Report abuse

The point is clear: the 800 Billion stimulus should have never been spent the way it was.


We don't need green cars that only yuppies can afford - and cost twice as much as a regular car.


We don't need windmills that generate electricity at 3 times the cost of normal electricity.


We didn't need to give working people a 7 dollar a week tax cut - we needed to HIRE people WITHOUT A JOB.

With 800 Billion - 26 Million people could have been hired - there are only 15 Million people unemployed.


IN that situation, unemployment benefits would not have had to have been paid.

OR - 15K could have been GIVEN to a small business to create a job - the small business could have added to that money and put the person to work that would have lasted.


The bottom line is Obama and the democrats DIVERTED the money AWAY from jobs - AWAY from people who were unemployed.

We don't need a stupid battery for a car that is so big, that no one can sit in the back seat - that is what Obama has done.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 6, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Obama's proposal to spend $50 Billion on infrastructure


Those are NOT small business jobs that will last


Those are EXPENSIVE Union jobs - that go away as soon as the project is done.


It is MUCH better to give tax incentives to small businesss - to expand and create jobs that will last.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 6, 2010 2:14 PM | Report abuse

I have a great idea. Since conservatives are disparaging unions today and their accomplishments in work hours, wages, safety, etc. etc. I think they should all just go into work and forget the BBQ. We don't need labor laws, the free market can figure it out for us right?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"On the first Monday in September, Labor Day honors the social and economic contributions that the American worker has made to the growth health and prosperity of the country.

It was first celebrated in this country in the 1880s -- at a time when people commonly worked 12-hour days. The first Labor Day rally, in 1882, was in support of an eight-hour workday."

Posted by: lmsinca | September 6, 2010 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Favorite lines from "Great Notion" (at least how I remember them):

Older brother meeting returning younger brother: "Where'd you get all that hair?"

Younger brother: "It jes' grows."

-------

Father waking up household: "Rise and shine! There's fish to fry and cats to kill!"

Posted by: converse | September 6, 2010 2:29 PM | Report abuse

@lmsinca...Thanks for pointing that out.


Alas Labor Day is the worst day of the year for R's. They have done nothing(worker's safety, workers hours and benefits, minimum wage) to help the working class and so any day promoting labor..and the workforce..is a bad day for the servants of the Corporate world.

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 6, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

[GOP candidate... used footage of Byrd's memorial service in an ad attacking the Dem opponent.]

Good grief. How soon they forget Democrats using Correta Scott King's funeral as a howling Hillary campaign orgy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNc9IuK0hNc

Democrat mobsters are shameless funeral hucksters. Yet, they still have the temerity to climb up on their hind legs and shake Byrd's corpse at Raese over a photo of Obama with Gov. Manchin.

/shameless

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | September 6, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

tao, ruk and others. Big second on the greatness of Earle and McCoury's The Mountain.

"You gotta put your hat on if you wanna be in the band...."

I also HIGHLY recommend Earle's recent tribute record to Townes Van Zandt, called "Townes." All covers, many acoustic; great stuff.

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 6, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

To mark Labor Day 2010, President Obama will join hands with AFL-CIO president Richard Trumka in Milwaukee, and they will pose as champions of the working class.

Bad move. Trumka’s organizing record is a shameful reminder of the union movement’s violent and corrupt foundations... when it comes to terrorizing workers, Trumka knows whereof he speaks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUVpJnHZNw8

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | September 6, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

tao, have I ever plugged The Felice Brothers? They're from up your way and they are a band any fan of Steve Earle, or Dylan, or folky/rock in general ought to know.

If you try out a few songs, I'd suggest "Rockefeller Drug Law Blues," or "Frankie's Gun."

http://www.thefelicebrothers.com/

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 6, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Robert Kennedy, 42 years ago. I'd say we have some work to do.

"Too much and too long, we seem to have surrendered community excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material things. Our gross national product... if we should judge America by that -- counts air pollution and cigarette advertising, and ambulances to clear our highways of carnage. It counts special locks for our doors and the jails for those who break them. It counts the destruction of our redwoods and the loss of our natural wonder in chaotic sprawl. It counts napalm and the cost of a nuclear warhead, and armored cars for police who fight riots in our streets. It counts Whitman's rifle and Speck's knife, and the television programs which glorify violence in order to sell toys to our children.

Yet the gross national product does not allow for the health of our children, the quality of their education, or the joy of their play. It does not include the beauty of our poetry or the strength of our marriages; the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials. It measures neither our wit nor our courage; neither our wisdom nor our learning; neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country; it measures everything, in short, except that which makes life worthwhile. And it tells us everything about America except why we are proud that we are Americans."

Posted by: lmsinca | September 6, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

KaddafiDelendaEst


You are 100% correct


I hate the hypocrisy. I really do. And it is amazing on how much material the democrats put out there when one takes about hypocrisy.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 6, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Obama could have used ALL the stimulus money for JOBS -


and at 30K per job, he could have created 26 Million jobs.


OR hired EVERY unemployed person in the country - 15 million and still had 352 Billion left over !

You ASK - where did the money go ? Green programs, democratic pet projects, plugging budget deficits.


Where did all the money go?


This is a great amount of money - to have diverted to democratic pet projects.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 6, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

@BG I am on a one year forced hiatus from golf. However every dark cloud does have it's silver lining.

What I've learned is that you bicyclists must be in awesome shape. I've been participating in "spinning" classes for the past month and a half. I had forgotten how "good" it feels to suck for air. I've already lost 17 lbs and 4" from my waist.

I'm going to anticipate your next remark. If you enjoy riding in a dark room going nowhere why don't you actually get a bike and hit the highway. Because highways in Florida are simply frightening..especially here in Pinellas County where we have the most densely populated County in the state.
I drive a Volvo...one of the safest cars made...and I'm still wary when on our roads. I can't imagine exposing my body to the wack jobs with driver's licenses on a bicycle. Sad but true.

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 6, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

If you enjoy spinning in a dark room going nowhere, then the stimulus is for you.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 6, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

It is telling that Obama is in Wisconsin today - Obama is NOT in Michigan, Ohio or PA

The DCCC are in the midst of cutting loose 30 House democrats



The Senate races, the Governors' races are being cut loose too.


Obama is in Wisconsin today - the place they thought they would never be, the place they thought was safe.



The House is going to the Republicans - the Republicans will pick up 59 seats - and the Republicans will pick up the Senate - and THOUSANDS of down ticket races will be lost because of Obama. ONE guy gets to stay in office, Obama - and everyone else gets thrown out - Does that make sense ???


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 6, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

ruk, congrats on getting fit. That's impressive poundage. Keep it up. Spin is a great way to get cardio work, and with low impact. You just have to get used to wearing spandex....

If you do want to get a bike, maybe first check out some routes with local bikeshop or go on mapmyride.com. Lots of people there share local rides and let you know how safe they are.

FL is not safe though in so many ways.

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 6, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

@Ims - That R Kennedy bit is really quite extraordinary. Thank you very kindly.

(this Labor Day post brought to you by the Canadian Council of Cute Communists)

Posted by: bernielatham | September 6, 2010 4:21 PM | Report abuse

lms (quoting RFK):

"Too much and too long, we seem to have surrendered community excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material things."

Material things like...estates in Hyannis and Newport, sail boats, family cruises to Europe, that sort of thing? It is always nice to be scolded about "our" consumerism and the meaning of life by a trust-fund baby who's life in the lap of luxury has been ensured by Dad before he's worked a day in his life.

Posted by: ScottC3 | September 6, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

You've gotcher extreme skiing, extreme mountain-biking, extreme white-water kayaking etcetera.

And then there's yer extreme lying...

"Sharron Angle Promises CNN She's 'Mainstream'"
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/09/sharron-angle-promises-cnn-shes-mainstream-video.php?ref=fpb

Posted by: bernielatham | September 6, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

ScottC3: "Material things like...estates in Hyannis and Newport, sail boats, family cruises to Europe, that sort of thing? It is always nice to be scolded about "our" consumerism and the meaning of life by a trust-fund baby who's life in the lap of luxury has been ensured by Dad before he's worked a day in his life."

Ouch. Let's see if ScottC3 just touched the third rail of The Plum Line politics. I thought that the Kennedy's were sacrosanct on the left?

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | September 6, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

We're waiting now for Liz Cheney and Bill Kristol to express there solidarity with the General in his concerns for the safety of the troops putting their lives on the line for the rest of us.

"Petraeus: Koran Burning Could Endanger Troops" http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/09/petraeus_koran_burning_could_endanger_troops.php?ref=fpb

Posted by: bernielatham | September 6, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Scott, sort of like Alan Simpson with a great Federal Government retirement and benefits package telling seniors and vets to get a life and sacrifice more.

Give me a break, you can have Alan Simpson and I'll take RFK, how about that? Most of us never attain position, wealth or enough power so that anyone listens to our words, so we choose leaders to speak for us.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 6, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

re: Unions

@thunder: "Both of you should read about the The Triangle Shirtwaist Fire of 1911."

The unions of today aren't quite what they used to be.

Read this this morning at NRO, found it interesting that the unions themselves prefer to hire non-union labor, resist attempts to unionize within the ranks of those employed by the unions, and have even those agitating for card check refused to acknowledge it when it was attempted by folks working for the union. Not to mention, the hiring of non-union workers to protest others for hiring non-union workers . . .

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/245531/hypocrisy-big-labor-s-big-problem-deroy-murdock

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | September 6, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

@thunder: "Both of you should read about the The Triangle Shirtwaist Fire of 1911."

Yeah, RFK woulda told ya.

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | September 6, 2010 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Whoops, Shoulda been: "The unions of today aren't quite what they used to be."

Yeak, ask RFK.

Missed it by that much!

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | September 6, 2010 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Kevin,

Can't find the source right now, might have been NRO, had union employee's strinking Union management and the Union Management hired Pinkerton of all companies, to provide security. Talk about your ironies.

If only Bilgey were here to elaborate.

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | September 6, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

lms:

"Give me a break, you can have Alan Simpson and I'll take RFK, how about that?"

What does Alan Simpson have to do with RFK's hypocrisy? What in the wide, wide world of sports makes you think I would want to "have" Alan Simpson?

Posted by: ScottC3 | September 6, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Yeah you guys really own the day. Next time read the quote. He wasn't talking about unions obviously, but our values as Americans and human beings. At times we value money, power and influence over the things that really matter in life. You could toss in oil companies, pharmaceuticals and health insurance corps and his words would be every bit as relevant today as they were over 40 years ago. Deny it if you want.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 6, 2010 4:46 PM | Report abuse

@ruk: "Alas Labor Day is the worst day of the year for R's. They have done nothing(worker's safety, workers hours and benefits, minimum wage) to help the working class and so any day promoting labor..and the workforce."

That might be fair to say about small 'c' conservatives, but not Republicans. I remind you again that the Occupational Safety and Health Administration and the EPA (which fights to protect workers from environmental hazards in the workplace, amongst other things) were both created under Richard Nixon.

The most recent increase in the minimum wage, The Fair Minimum Wage act of 2007, was signed into law by George W. bush. The act was introduced into a larger bill by a democrat, but, at the end of the day, 82 Republicans also voted for it. Once the bill included some tax cuts for business, almost all the Republicans in the senate voted for it.

You will find, throughout history, many Republicans supporting some labor laws, some with compromises, some without. Republicans don't represent a historical, uncompromised wall against worker rights and safety.

And, of course, I shouldn't have to mention that it's usually the Republicans arguing that folks who work for a living should get to keep more of their own money, and that the government ought to get it's hand out of their pockets. Some middle-class folks actually think that's looking out for the workers.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | September 6, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Steve Benen catches the notable exchange I posted here yesterday and categorizes it appropriately...

"In one of the dumber media exchanges in a long while, Fox News' Chris Wallace noted that President Obama recently characterized his "central mission" as "restoring the economy." Wallace said, "[I]s it unfair to say that this a president whose heart doesn't seem to be into winning the war on terror, no matter what it costs?" The Weekly Standard's Stephen Hayes replied, "No, I don't think that's at all unfair." No wonder the network's poor viewers are so darned confused."
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_09/025548.php

Posted by: bernielatham | September 6, 2010 4:56 PM | Report abuse

lms:

"You could toss in oil companies, pharmaceuticals and health insurance corps and his words would be every bit as relevant today as they were over 40 years ago."

And every bit as, er, rich. Again, to have a guy who had lived a life of incredible affluence and luxury (earned not by him but by his father) scolding the rest of the country for being too interested in material things is just a bit too much to take.

Posted by: ScottC3 | September 6, 2010 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Kevin...you had me until...
"That it's usually the Republicans arguing that folks who work for a living should get to keep more of their own money, and that the government ought to get it's hand out of their pockets."

Not really...Obama gave the largest middle class tax cut in American history inside the stimulus. The R's are not worried about working people they want to protect the top 2%.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/08/washington/08tax.html

"Families earning more than $1 million a year saw their federal tax rates drop more sharply than any group in the country as a result of President Bush’s tax cuts, according to a new Congressional study."

And these are the cuts the R's are defending right now. I think E.J. Dionne made a great point yesterday on MTP. The D's should take this head on and make a huge fight with R's over their proposals.
They have to make sure that the public understands that the D's want to cut taxes...for the average working class American...not the uber wealthy. Let the R's try and defend fighting for the rich.
It's what they do anyway..it's time to call them out and show them for what they are...the party of the wealthy.

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 6, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Kevin,

Here's the union busting union link. With Pictures!

http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2010/09/01/union-uses-pinkertons-to-manhandle-union-employees-blocking-union-headquarters-to-prevent-union-managers-from-crossing-union-picket-line-got-all-that/

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | September 6, 2010 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Scott..."Again, to have a guy who had lived a life of incredible affluence and luxury (earned not by him but by his father) scolding the rest of the country for being too interested in material things is just a bit too much to take."

I'm not sure I follow your logic here. Perhaps you think only Gandhi or Mother Teresa are suited to talk about poverty and unfairness in society. Actually I think RFK's wealth made him that much more credible because he would be someone who would be most effected by taxes for programs for the less fortunate.

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 6, 2010 5:05 PM | Report abuse

Scott, my point is that if RFK was hypocritical then so is Alan Simpson. And if we finding meaning in their words in spite of their "hypocrisy" as you call it, then I would prefer RFK over someone like Simpson or any other modern conservative. We've already established our differing views of economics, governing and our health care system so there's that too.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 6, 2010 5:07 PM | Report abuse

ruk:

"The R's are not worried about working people they want to protect the top 2%."

Odd, then, that the R's routinely get more than 2% of the vote. I guess all those working people who vote for R's are just too stupid to understand what you understand.

Posted by: ScottC3 | September 6, 2010 5:07 PM | Report abuse

ruk:

"I'm not sure I follow your logic here."

Perhaps that's because you seem to oddly think RFK was talking about poverty and taxes. He was in fact bemoaning the pursuit of material wealth. If you don't grasp the disconnect of a man who lived a life of luxury off of inherited wealth taking average Americans to task about their pursuit of material things, then I don't think there is anything I can say to get you to follow it.

Posted by: ScottC3 | September 6, 2010 5:20 PM | Report abuse

lms:

"Scott, my point is that if RFK was hypocritical then so is Alan Simpson."

I don't doubt that Simpson is a hypocrite.

Posted by: ScottC3 | September 6, 2010 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Scott, I think you're the one who has missed the point on this one. He wasn't taking the average American to task, he was encouraging the kind of investment in our children's health, education and welfare over the material value of things that don't really improve the quality of most peoples lives very much. Keep trying to spin it though if you want.

It was merely a meaningful quote that points out, IMO, the more things change the more they remain the same, even after 40 plus years have transpired. Actually, it's a little depressing that such is the case.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 6, 2010 5:33 PM | Report abuse

And on that cheery note, I'm out for my swim and a little BBQ. Have a good one all.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 6, 2010 5:35 PM | Report abuse

I hope this Florida church will re-think their plans.

Wall St. Journal
KABUL—The top U.S. commander in Afghanistan said the planned burning of Qurans on Sept. 11 by a Florida church could put the lives of American troops in danger and damage the war effort.

Gen. David Petraeus said the Taliban would exploit the demonstration for propaganda purposes, drumming up anger toward the U.S. and making it harder for allied troops to carry out their mission of protecting Afghan civilians.

"It could endanger troops and it could endanger the overall effort," Gen. Petraeus said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal. "It is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses and could cause significant problems. Not just here, but everywhere in the world we are engaged with the Islamic community."

Hundreds of Afghans attended a demonstration in Kabul on Monday to protest the plans of Florida pastor Terry Jones, who has said he will burn the Quran on Sept. 11.

Afghan protesters chanted "death to America" and speakers called on the U.S. to withdraw its military convoy. Some of the protesters threw rocks at a passing military convoy, although officials told the rock-throwers to stop.

Military officials fear the protests are likely to spread beyond Kabul to other Afghan cities. In interviews with various media outlets, Mr. Jones has denied his protest will put troops in danger. Mr. Jones has been denied a permit for the demonstration but has said he plans to go forward with the his protest anyway.

Mr. Jones leads a tiny church of just 50 people, but his threat to burn the Muslim holy book has been condemned around the world and has garnered him international attention.

Gen. Petraeus declined to elaborate on precisely what kinds of threats or violence could occur in the wake of such a demonstration. But westerners in Afghanistan have been warned away from restaurants and other public places as tensions arise over the matter.

A report in Newsweek, later retracted, that a U.S. interrogator at the Guantanamo Bay prison had flushed a Quran down a toilet set off riots in Afghanistan and elsewhere in the Muslim world.
Officials fear that video of a members of Mr. Jones's church burning of Qurans could set off similar violence and stepped up attacks against U.S. troops.

Military leaders usually try to distance themselves from politics, so the decision by Gen. Petraeus to speak out to try and stop the burning is unusual. But last year Gen. Ray Odierno, the top commander in Iraq, asked President Barack Obama to stop the release of photos showing the abuse of Iraqi detainees, arguing pictures of Muslims being abused could touch off violence in Iraq and potentially slow down the withdrawal.

Posted by: Andy94 | September 6, 2010 5:58 PM | Report abuse

lms:

"He wasn't taking the average American to task, he was encouraging the kind of investment in our children's health, education and welfare over the material value of things that don't really improve the quality of most peoples lives very much."

There is nothing in that quote about "investing" in anything. Kennedy was despairing at the notion that the character of America might be measured through the material wealth that it produces, ie the GNP. His references to the "health of our children" or the "quality of their education" were aimed at identifying positive characteristics of the nation that are not included in measures GNP, not negative characteristics that required more "investment". (What is it with the left and the need to see all things as a justification for more government spending?). That is why, in addition to "health" and "education" he included things like the "quality of our children's play", poetry, devotion to country, and courage.

And, on the specific part that I focused on, he explicitly referred to how "we" have surrendered "community excellence" and "community values" for material things. Well, most of the "community" of which he speaks is the average working American. So, if he is not blaming them for "surrendering" these qualities to the pursuit of material things, who in the world do you think is to blame?

Posted by: ScottC3 | September 6, 2010 6:02 PM | Report abuse

Doc Ellis' no hitter pitched while on acid...
http://www.thenation.com/blog/154530/lsd-and-hes-high-diamond-nyt-pays-tribute-dock-ellis-no-hitter-acid

I want my America back.

Posted by: bernielatham | September 6, 2010 8:00 PM | Report abuse

Greg, Welcome back and happy Labor Day. I heard a sound clip of Obama's speech in Milwaukee today where he added "and they talk about me like a dog--and that's not in my prepared speech--" when criticizing 'party of No' Republicans. He could have added "and they attack my wife; they gotta stop."

The New York Times has jumped on the Michelle Obama=Marie Antoinette bandwagon, the meme that originated in right wing media. Have you noticed it? Now their reporters present it as "conventional wisdom" or "some Americans" say that Ms Obama is uppity. Pathetic! I'm referring to
Peter Baker and Raphael Minder's 8/6/10 "Criticized for Spain Vacation" and Sheryl Gay Stolberg's 9/3/10 "Careful Return to Campaign Trail." In each, the writers report without attribution the "criticism" of right-wing columnists and media personalities about Ms Obama's behavior--her "controversial" (to whom exactly?) vacation trip to Spain, that some regard her as a modern-day Marie Antoinette, and object to her "flashy" (again to whom?) persona.

A simple internet search turns up many of the actual phrases or quotes and their sources: Rush Limbaugh, Michele Malkin, Glen Beck, Erick Erickson. But the Times writers simply paraphrase the ideas and present them as the conventional wisdom, or a generalized and accepted perception of Michelle Obama. This reminds me of the ridiculous "Al Gore claimed he invented the internet" meme that became "the truth that Al Gore is an exagerrator/liar" to many in the press. Oy!

Posted by: nancycadet | September 6, 2010 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Why I loves me some America...Atlantic City via Dublin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAyOLQbfuh8&feature=fvst

Posted by: bernielatham | September 6, 2010 8:22 PM | Report abuse

Fallows on the Wikileaks stuff...
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/09/wikileaks-assange-and-the-strange-swedish-accusations/62394/

Posted by: bernielatham | September 6, 2010 8:41 PM | Report abuse

Fox News' Chris Wallace noted that President Obama recently characterized his "central mission" as "restoring the economy." Wallace said, "[I]s it unfair to say that this a president whose heart doesn't seem to be into winning the war on terror, no matter what it costs?" The Weekly Standard's Stephen Hayes replied, "No, I don't think that's at all unfair." No wonder the network's poor viewers are so darned confused."
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_09/025548.php


_____________________________________


I believe this will go down in history as one of the more bizarre points in Obama's term.

Let me be clear: Obama wanted to get off the subject of Iraq and the wider War on Terror - because he believed he didn't look good in the dicussion.


Yes, it is FAIR to say that Obama's full efforts are not behind the wars - and MANY of Obama's statements have indicated that Obama rather "get out at all costs" - instead of "win and then get out."


This is an extremely important point - it appears that Obama's first choice is to pull all the troops out of both Afghanistan and Iraq IMMEDIATELY - and somehow people have convinced him that such a pull-out would run the risk of a public backlash - and political damage if a future incident would be blamed on Obama.

The first point is that Obama's big issue from his campaign really doesn't work or provide much benefit - and if Obama does what he really wants to do he could hurt himself badly.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 6, 2010 8:51 PM | Report abuse

The other bizarre part of this "restoring the economy - CENTRAL MISSION business" - is that clearly Obama has spent time and effort on the economy ONLY reluctantly - and he has regarded the bad economy as a distraction from his efforts to do "big things."


In fact, Obama appears to regard the bad economy as potentially preventing him from doing this "big things."

The whole thing comes down to Obama's ego - what is more important to Obama - his ego or the economic health of the nation. Americans are angry to have to have taken second place - but it is true and exactly what happened.

But now - Obama seems to be saying - OK, don't blame me for not saying the Surge was a success - now let's talk about what I have been IGNORING all along - the economy.

Well - that little twist really didn't make anyone happy with Obama -


Obama seemed to be ranking his second and third priorities - and the people just felt worn by seeing Obama have to start talking about something else he didn't want to talk about.


The two MAJOR aspects of his job - NATIONAL SECURITY AND THE ECONOMY - Obama could care less about.


Obama looked bored - almost like - now let's go on to the "central mission" - like Obama was trying to convince himself - or more accurately telling the nation what it has been wanting to hear for over a year - but Obama still has to be dragged through.


One has to wonder why Obama wanted to be President in the first place - he seems to have childish view of the entire job - one that ignores reality - economic reality and political reality.


Perhaps Obama would have preferred to be a peacetime President - so why did he run?


The truth is probably simple - Obama never expected to win, and he found himself one day able to beat Hillary - more because she failed than he succeeded.


Then the economic crisis and the financial advantage put Obama in office - Let's just hope that Obama doesn't do too much damage to the country.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 6, 2010 9:03 PM | Report abuse

ruk,

"And these are the cuts the R's are defending right now. I think E.J. Dionne made a great point yesterday on MTP. The D's should take this head on and make a huge fight with R's over their proposals.
They have to make sure that the public understands that the D's want to cut taxes...for the average working class American...not the uber wealthy. Let the R's try and defend fighting for the rich."

This is another sterling example of why we always point out that the Deomocrats' and liberals' position is always an appeal to envy and resentment. It isn't merely an appeal to self interest but an appeal to . . . malice. Take from the rich and give to us. Or really, take from the upper middle and give to us. It is esentially a political philosophy built entirely on covetting your neighbor's wealth.

I hope Democrats will take your advice and run another class warfare, greed and envy campaign. Politically, I hope so anyway. Republicans have the crazy idea that people who actually pay the taxes should at least be included in the tax cuts.

But Democrats always play this cynical game of screaming that tax cuts "disproportionately" help "the rich" when it is simply a function of the fact that they pay almost all the taxes to begin with. I'm sure you've seen the actual statistics, so you know it is true. The upper end of the spectrum pays virtually all the income taxes. The entire bottom 50% pay virtually none to begin with.

You were talking earlier about hubris. I count it hubris for liberals to assert that they know how much of my own income I "need" and that the rest should be redistributed to them.

There are plenty of people who need more of your money. Why shouldn't your taxes be raised so they can be helped?

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 6, 2010 9:06 PM | Report abuse

If Obama didnt spend the money on the people the repubs would just start another war on false pretenses.

Posted by: jimbobkalina | September 6, 2010 9:07 PM | Report abuse

Q.B. "an appeal to self interest but an appeal to . . . malice. Take from the rich and give to us. Or really, take from the upper middle and give to us. It is esentially a political philosophy built entirely on covetting your neighbor's wealth."

But of course the fact that the rich continue to take from the middle class isn't malice? Right? The rich have not bought all these elections out of self interest have they...why should the rich like the kock brothers get to influence our elections in a manner that is far greater than any other two Americans..simply because they are wealthy?

Again the top 1% possess 90% of the wealth leaving the rest of us to fight, vote our interests..exhibit malice..whatever you wish to call it..to fight for a better share of the pie.

That's pretty far out Q.B. even for you.
Saying that encouraging people to vote their interests is MALICE...:-) but the very wealthiest amongst..like Rick Scott cannot only shaft the taxpayer with Medicare/Medicaid fraud so egregious his company fired him and elected instead to pay 1.7 BILLION DOLLARS. Then this charmer takes 50 million of that ill gotten gain and buys the Republican nomination for the Governor's mansion in Florida.

It's the R way right. You guys simply operate as I repeated before by the golden rule. You must literally believe he who has the gold makes the rules. It's a proud day for R's when they can nominate a true scumbag leech like Rick Scott!!!

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 6, 2010 9:21 PM | Report abuse

@nancycadet...glad to have you with us..you posted..."But the Times writers simply paraphrase the ideas and present them as the conventional wisdom, or a generalized and accepted perception of Michelle Obama."

You have nailed one of the largest problems with the MSM today. It's clear how Faux news operates...one of their favorite tricks..have one of their looney tunes..Beck, O'Reilly, Hannity..toss of some right wing talking points..and then have their "news" anchors" report.."people are asking..yadda yadda..or people are saying"...NO not really..your propagandists are floating...but when the MSM picks up this horrible habit as you've just pointed out...it's a sad day for journalism....or for the consipiracy freaks who sometimes inhabit this blog..for journolism. :-)

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 6, 2010 9:29 PM | Report abuse

It is a question of priorities - and Obama just doesn't care - doesn't care about the economy.


Obama wants to do "big things" - so he can read about "big things" in some paragraph in some dusty old history book.

Instead, Obama has become a case study in how an ego can destroy the effectiveness of a person. It is a character flaw. It is not about the color of one's skin, it is the content of one's character. The right thing to do would have been for Obama to put his things aside and put the economy and the American People first.


Obama has yet to do that.


When will Obama put the American People first, and his own ego second ???

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 6, 2010 9:52 PM | Report abuse

ru,

"Then this charmer takes 50 million of that ill gotten gain and buys the Republican nomination for the Governor's mansion in Florida."

As American as apple pie.

Mr. R.U. Kidding may I introduce you, Sir, to the Honorable Joseph Patrick Kennedy, Sr., Ambassador to the Court of St. James.

Joe bought the WH.

Posted by: tao9 | September 6, 2010 10:05 PM | Report abuse

It is a fundamental question - is the job of President more about guiding the nation - and doing what is best for the nation


OR is it about feeding Obama's ego ???

Any rational person would say that what is best for the nation is the most important - and should guide policy.

However, this is not what the country had gotten over the past year - instead, we have had the priorities of the government set by ego - NOT by what the nation needs - which is attention to the economy.

This is the source of the discomfort that nation has with Obama.

The democrats keep asking - the democrats have been in control for only 2 years - Bush had 8 years - why not give the democrats more time ?


The truth is the democrats have had Congress for 4 years -


However, more important is this question of Obama's priorities - and whether Obama truly has the ability and character to handle the job - Obama doesn't have either.


The SIGHT of democratic pundits on television side-stepping this problem - watching pundits dismis this issue and quickly change the subject - is a further cause for concern.


The democratic party appears WHOLLY UNABLE AND UNWILLING to confront the issue of Obama's personal failings - there is no 'plan B' - there is no "group of democratic elders" who have gone to Obama to guide him straight.


Instead, the democratic party appears to be nothing more than PUPPETS OF OBAMA'S EGO - LOCKED IN THE GRIP OF A DRIFTING POLICY WHICH HAS INSISTED ON IGNORING THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE - THE ECONOMY.


This administration has decided to sacrifice its own party - thousands of democrats this fall - for the sake of Obama's ego -


The nation watches and wonders - what is next from Obama ???


That is why the nation feels an urgency to get a check on Obama as soon as possible - if the American People could recall Obama, they would do so swiftly and without much thought.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 6, 2010 10:09 PM | Report abuse

Hi again, Bernie. Thanks for the invite.

Drop me an e-mail at @.com and I'll get back to ya.

Posted by: jzap | September 6, 2010 10:14 PM | Report abuse

Re Obama's focus on "big". Remember the jobs summit a few months ago? Big business was invited, big unions were invited and of course big government was there. Small business, that hires 70 percent or more of job seekers, was not invited. It took a little more time for Mr. Big to entertain the idea that small business might be important to the economy and considering his bigness and loftiness, the idea sure didn't come from his own big brain.

Posted by: actuator | September 6, 2010 10:17 PM | Report abuse

rukidding: "why should the rich like the kock brothers get to influence our elections in a manner that is far greater than any other two Americans..simply because they are wealthy?"

I know the Koch brothers are the current Democratic "undesirables". But are there any other mega-wealthy that have an outsized influence besides them?

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | September 6, 2010 10:18 PM | Report abuse

First ScottC3 denigrates the Sainted Kennedy name.

Now tao9 essentially pee's on said name.

My God, there are sacred cows being gored all over the site tonight.


Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | September 6, 2010 10:27 PM | Report abuse

It is not too early to start looking at the Senate races in 2012 - when a different cycle of Senate seats is up for election.


Amazingly - Ohio, PA and Missouri are on the list again - as are Virginia and Montana - all 5 potential Republican pick-ups.

Also North Dakota, Nebraska, Florida are potential Republican pick-ups.


Washington State and Wisconsin are on the list as well. So the Republicans have the potential to pick-up 10 Senate seats in 2012.


On the defensive side, the democrats have virtually no chance to pick-up any Republican holds.


Well - that will be interesting if the Republicans end up with 60 votes after the 2012 elections.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 6, 2010 10:36 PM | Report abuse

actuator said "Remember the jobs summit a few months ago? Big business was invited, big unions were invited and of course big government was there. Small business, that hires 70 percent or more of job seekers, was not invited"

Just did a google search and came up with:

"To tackle this enormous task, President Obama has invited a diverse group of attendees to the summit who represent a cross section of the American population. Among the invitees are: CEOs, small business owners, economists, financial experts, and representatives from labor unions and non profit groups."

So, either you were misinformed about the small business or were just purposely misinforming. Which was it?

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 6, 2010 10:38 PM | Report abuse

TMcW,

Re: Hyannisport Heraldry

It's OK, I'm an MA guy & 20yr Boston res, it's a very, very popular local sport.

Posted by: tao9 | September 6, 2010 10:41 PM | Report abuse

tao9,

Years ago my dad and I flew into Logan. Whole waiting forever for our luggage at the carousel, my dad said in a stage whisper, "must be unloading Teddy's plane first." People literally backed away from us, like we were about to be hit by lightening.

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | September 6, 2010 10:53 PM | Report abuse

I think Actuator was referring to some prominent small-business advocacy lobby groups - and trade groups - which were not invited to Obama's business summit.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 6, 2010 10:54 PM | Report abuse

People really have to look at the stimulus - the democrats saw it as a way to push through a bunch of big programs - and divert the money to other things.


The American People are RIGHT - the democrats at the time really didn't care about creating jobs - AND IT SHOWS.

The money was wasted. Who really cares that they got 7 dollars a week more in their paychecks - the stimulus was for people who did NOT have a job - not to give people a little bit.

The clunkers programs, money to buy appliances - all those other crazy programs - FEW JOBS


The money could have been for PURE JOB CREATION AND THE WHOLE ECONOMY COULD BE WORKING RIGHT NOW.


Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 6, 2010 10:59 PM | Report abuse

tao No doubt Joe Kennedy was no charmer...but that was what...ehhh more than 50 years ago...why stop there if you really wish to slam Dems..how about Tammany Hall and Boss Tweed...or the original Richard Daley and his Chicago machine.

Can't do much about ancient history...can object strenuously to a crook who brazenly rips off the taxpayers with the largest Medicare/Medicaid fraud case in history...a fine of 1.7 BILLION...who after being run out of HCA by his own board..took his money and founded another health care scam..Solantic..already sued twice by physicians who worked for him..Scott settles this past April..refuses to release the depostion..but then he took the 5th 75 times in his HCA deposition..understandable of course..one of our basic freedoms is that crooks don't have to testify against themselvs...still he's a crook....then 50 million of his own bucks to buy the R gubernatorial nomination.

But then tao you make my point. I enjoyed living under the delusion that this was a democracy when in reality we have become a plutocracy. Perhaps you are correct..it all began with Joe Kennedy...who undoubtedly was as sleazy as Scott. Hard to argue for somebody who thought the Nazis were a good thing. :-)

Posted by: rukidding7 | September 6, 2010 11:05 PM | Report abuse

Question of the day: Is Obama entirely to blame for today's polarizing environment, or is it possible that those claiming Obama harbors a secret socialist agenda and sneaking sympathies for the Muslim world might also be partly responsible?


_______________________________


Obama is entirely to blame.


What is wrong with being a Muslim, if one delivers on the economy - and puts the American People first - clearly the economy is more important.

The issue with Obama is one of possible divided loyalties in the War on Terror - and his twisted left-leaning legal interpretations - NOT what Obama's personal religious beliefs are.

Obama has only himself to blame for the socialist stuff too - Obama does dabble in the "redistribution" ideas - ones that clearly do not have the majority support of the American people.


Obama did all this to himself.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 6, 2010 11:08 PM | Report abuse

I'm considering bringing in a "Kennedy quote of the day", everyday, just to drive everyone crazy. What do you think? Sheesh.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 6, 2010 11:09 PM | Report abuse

I read a number of articles, including complaints from the chamber of commerce that small business was being left out.

Here is part of one item from CNN. SB is not menteioned.

"NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Executives from Google and Walt Disney will join other company chiefs, academics, labor leaders and mayors at President Obama's jobs summit this week, the White House said Sunday.

Google (GOOG, Fortune 500) CEO Eric Schmidt and Disney (DIS, Fortune 500) chief Bob Iger will be among about 130 people attending Thursday's meeting, according to a partial guestlist.

Other prominent CEOs slated to attend include Randall Stephenson of AT&T (T, Fortune 500), Brian Roberts of Comcast (CMCSA, Fortune 500), James McNerney of Boeing (BA, Fortune 500) and Frederick Smith of FedEx (FDX, Fortune 500).

They'll be joined by such experts as Paul Krugman, the Nobel Prize-winning economist and New York Times columnist, former Fed vice chairman Alan Blinder, United Steel Workers president Leo Gerard and San Antonio mayor Julian Castro."

Here's something from another article.

"Facing rising unemployment rates and having seen uncertain results from the stimulus bill, President Obama is hosting a "jobs summit" at the White House Thursday that will be packed with business leaders and economists supportive of White House policies but lacks a diversity of opinion, several analysts say.

Missing from a partial list of attendees released by the White House are the self-proclaimed voices of business - the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the National Federation of Independent Business - both of which have been critical of Mr. Obama's proposed health care overhaul.

Confirmed attendees include liberal economists credited with shaping the $787 billion stimulus package, union leaders, environmental advocates and executives from Google and other blue-chip firms."

Seems that if any small business was represented there, it was only those already in his back pocket. Alternative ideas were apparently unwelcome. I have a lot of small business owner friends and have yet to hear ANY of them say anything positive about this administration's economic policy.


Posted by: actuator | September 6, 2010 11:22 PM | Report abuse

lms,

Jack's speeches brimmed with Scripture (h/t to Sorensen). Carry on, that would be cool. Bobby too. Ted not so much.

Posted by: tao9 | September 6, 2010 11:26 PM | Report abuse

ru,

I don't have any love for the FL guy (can't even 'member his name) or his species.

Just saying it's not unusual, nor was JFK's pop the 1st. The nation has muddled thru.

Jersey seems to have survived Corzine (barely). MA is fortunate in that Kerry has forgotten where the state is, confusing it with a marina in Newport. That said, Ahnald may have killed Cali.

Posted by: tao9 | September 6, 2010 11:33 PM | Report abuse

Re: SaveTheRainforest

"Obama hasn't joined a church since moving to Washington, but he is hosting Ramadan dinners at the White House.

You decide".

The White House Celebrates Ramadan NYTimes.com
By PETER BAKER
September 1, 2009, 6:25 pm

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/01/the-white-house-celebrates-ramadan

"President Obama will hold his first White House dinner celebrating the Muslim holiday of Ramadan on Tuesday night as part of his effort to rebuild American relations with the Islamic world after years of strain.

The dinner follows in the tradition of former President George W. Bush, who held eight Ramadan dinners in office to stress that America’s war with violent extremists was not a war with Islam".

FACT: President George W. Bush held eight Ramadan dinners.

SaveTheRainforest, perhaps you should heed the following words of Abraham Lincoln:

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

P.S. I don't give a rat's patottie wjether President Obama has joined a church. All I need to see is the hatred eminating from those good christians who daily spout racist nonsense while yelling "praise the Lord".

One more thing, those of us who are not identified by gthe Lincoln comment, as you are, have decided.

But then again we are able to think for ourselves.

Posted by: Sammy2 | September 6, 2010 11:41 PM | Report abuse

tao, my earliest political memories swirl around in my head to the words of Jack, Bobby and Martin. Agreed re scripture, maybe that's one of the reasons their words moved me.

And so many of our politicians were born with the silver spoon I don't really consider that either a qualifier or a dis-qualifier.

It's difficult to find anyone in Congress or the White House who remembers what the struggles of everyday Americans are like, if they ever knew them. You will likely disagree but IMO the few who do, reside in the left chamber.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 6, 2010 11:53 PM | Report abuse

Imsinca: "t's difficult to find anyone in Congress or the White House who remembers what the struggles of everyday Americans are like, if they ever knew them. You will likely disagree but IMO the few who do, reside in the left chamber."

I can think of at least one, though she's not in Congress, who's on the right side of the aisle.

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | September 6, 2010 11:59 PM | Report abuse

McWing, you're not kidding are you? In my opinion she's only sees green and it's not the environment she's saving. She'd just as soon break your hand on the way up as shake it.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 7, 2010 12:07 AM | Report abuse

Effin' A!!!!!! The 'Cuda baby! Misunderestimate her at your party's peril.

But I thought the criteria was silver spoons, not ambition (though I dispute your characterization of her relations as being ruthless, unless your a corrupt politician. Ask Hones Frank and Lisa!)

Politico posits an interesting What If about Sarah. Was the constant barrage of B.S. ethics complaints that drove her from office good or bad for the Democratic Party?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0910/41800_Page4.html

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | September 7, 2010 12:19 AM | Report abuse

McWing, no the criteria was not silver spoons, I clearly said:

"And so many of our politicians were born with the silver spoon I don't really consider that either a qualifier or a dis-qualifier."

My criteria is what they actually say and do from their lofty, wealthy perches and pinnacles of success. I don't trust her even a tiny bit, but go ahead if it makes you happy. And I've never seen a "cuda" find so many reasons to project victim-hood.

Anyway, off to bed and a good book. See y'all manana.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 7, 2010 12:39 AM | Report abuse

"I'm considering bringing in a "Kennedy quote of the day", everyday, just to drive everyone crazy. What do you think? Sheesh."

Go for it. The particular brand of hypocrisy they represent can't be advertised too often imo.

It would make a target-rich environment, as they say. ; }

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 7, 2010 6:31 AM | Report abuse

You guys should stop complaining because, one the health care we have now isnt as good as it was supposed to be. also the law has just been signed so give it some time. so if u want to say u have the right to choose tell that to ur congress men or state official. If you do not have insurance and need one You can find full medical coverage at the lowest price by calling 877-882-4740 or check http://bit.ly/9fDY7U If you have health insurance and do not care about cost just be happy about it and trust me you are not going to loose anything!


Posted by: glennmark | September 7, 2010 6:42 AM | Report abuse

ruk,

"But of course the fact that the rich continue to take from the middle class isn't malice? Right?"

What are you claiming here when you say the rich continue to take from the middle class? How? And, again, how is it that you categorize anyone with an income (even for a year) above 250,000 with the billionaires you so revile?

If you are claiming that "the rich" get that way by taking from us, this is a fundamental disagreement between liberals and conservatives. You believe free markets and transactions are unjust. We do not. You must believe that Steve Jobs Bill Gates robbed you when you bouth iPods and computer, so you are justified in using the tax system to take back what was stolen.

I chose the word malice deliberately, because the rhetoric I consistently see from you and other liberals fits it. It is beyond envy and resentment. You really seem to hate and want to punish "the rich." But there is no reciprocity here. I have never seen a political movement among "the rich" to demonize and expropriate the middle class.

All the redistributionist ethos really does is distort the economy and keep people government-dependent. "The rich" don't put their money under mattresses. They spend it or invest it, which is what makes the economy productive.

"The rich have not bought all these elections out of self interest have they...why should the rich like the kock brothers get to influence our elections in a manner that is far greater than any other two Americans..simply because they are wealthy?"

Rich Democrats have a considerably better record at least in recent decades of "buying elections." As tao points out, Joe Kennedy bought an entire political dynasty for his descendants. It's a very long list who have followed them. In fact, there was a recent article on how Congressional Democrats have gotten even richer.

But you villify only conservatives like Rick Scott and the Koch family. John Corzine and Herb Kohl were fine with you. George Soros, using his billions of currency trading profits to corrupt public discourse with propoganda and back candidates, is fine with you.

Are you admitting that all these Democrats have bought their offices to pursue self-interest?

Why should "the rich" be able to influence politics more than the nonrich? Who is going to decide how much influence each person is allowed to have, through what means?

Why should people who pay no income taxes have more representation in government than the people who do, so they can vote themselves money from the taxpayers?

Why should Al Franken be allowed to parlay his career as a mediocre comic into Senate membership?

Why should the Sulzberger and Graham families have such huge influence over public debate and politics simply because they are wealthy owners of newspapers?

Your concerns are ad hoc and unprincipled, imo.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 7, 2010 7:07 AM | Report abuse

lms,

"McWing, you're not kidding are you? In my opinion she's only sees green and it's not the environment she's saving. She'd just as soon break your hand on the way up as shake it."

Honestly, what factual basis have you for this opinion, either that she is only in it for money or would as soon break your hand to get it?

Do you actually know anything about her biography or how she got into politics?

Do you have the same opinion of your two wealthy Senators?

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 7, 2010 7:13 AM | Report abuse

"It's difficult to find anyone in Congress or the White House who remembers what the struggles of everyday Americans are like, if they ever knew them. You will likely disagree but IMO the few who do, reside in the left chamber."

I would like to see empirical proof of this claim.

Just off the top of my head, some leading R's whom D's love to hate include Michele Bachmann, John Boehner, Paul Ryan, Jim Demint. None a plutocrat, to my knowledge. Lots more could be added to the list.

Neither Pelosi nor Reid has any recent experience with the struggles of ordinary life, if they ever did. There is no evidence that Barack Obama ever did, and Joe Biden has been in office his entire adult life (or should I say Five Deferment Biden for ruk's benefit?). Obama is surrounded by millionaire cronies and has been for years. Michele complained on the campaign trail about the "struggles" of paying for private lessons on a mere few hundred thousands a year.

I don't think having knowledge of the "struggles of everyday American life" in any way points one toward the left. Being propogandized to believe life's struggles are someone else's fault just might.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 7, 2010 7:37 AM | Report abuse

Medicine for the Krugman-addled.


http://www.economics21.org/commentary/response-paul-krugman%E2%80%99s-depiction-1937

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 7, 2010 7:58 AM | Report abuse

Read about the latest plan to alter your memories thus changing who you are entirely. The Gh-4 Effect.
www.thegh-4effect.com

Posted by: snydersweb | September 7, 2010 8:33 AM | Report abuse

All, Morning Roundup posted:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/09/the_morning_plum_84.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | September 7, 2010 8:33 AM | Report abuse

"Indeed, as I've noted here repeatedly, it is preordained that the expected Dem shellacking this fall will be widely interpreted as proof that Obama's agenda was too ambitious and too 'liberal.'"
---------------------------------------------

Except on the outer reaches of the left-wing fringe of course, where it will be universally interpreted as Democrats' fitting punishment for their presumed "spinelessness" and "abandonment of principles." (And thank god then we can finally go back to our preferred and well-practiced role as victims then, and people will have to stop to saying we're really not.)

Posted by: CalD | September 7, 2010 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Post a Comment

We encourage users to analyze, comment on and even challenge washingtonpost.com's articles, blogs, reviews and multimedia features.

User reviews and comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate comments or material will be removed from the site. Additionally, entries that are unsigned or contain "signatures" by someone other than the actual author will be removed. Finally, we will take steps to block users who violate any of our posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies or any other policies governing this site. Please review the full rules governing commentaries and discussions.




characters remaining

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2010 The Washington Post Company