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Only 46 days until senators-elect Sharron Angle and Christine O'Donnell and Speaker-to-be John Boehner give victory speeches detailing their plans to restore our glorious center-right country from our nightmarish two-year lapse into socialism. What else is happening?

By Greg Sargent  | September 18, 2010; 8:21 AM ET
Categories:  Miscellaneous  
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And there will be larks in every tree, that glowing morning.

To keep in mind, the anti-establishment narrative of the TP, particularly as we see it manifested presently... http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/richard-adams-blog/2010/sep/18/sarah-palin-republicans-iowa-tea-party

...follows the '94 playbook of rebranding the GOP/conservative movement post-Bush years. Fresh faces indeed.

Posted by: bernielatham | September 18, 2010 8:38 AM | Report abuse

Tomasky on O'Donnell...

"Her sincere religious views, however extreme, should not be mocked. Her insincere actions should. And in this context more people need to know about what her associates did to Mike Castle during this primary, spreading gossip that he was cheating on his wife with a man. It was not the O'Donnell campaign per se, but a firm that she employed until just before the launching of the accusation, granting surface deniability.

Then, her campaign refused to comment for a day, thus letting it circulate. Ben Smith interviewed one of the people responsible:

Walker told me he and the firm left the campaign two weeks ago and produced the video on their own.

"We asked the question, we didn't specifically say it," he said of the gay affair charge, which he said was "common knowledge" in Delaware. "We thought we'd throw it out there."

Walker said he had no compunction about repeating the rumor about Castle because "he's a threat to American sovereignty."

He didn't offer any evidence for the claim.

O'Donnell campaign manager Matt Moran didn't immediately respond to a call for comment.

Throwing character-assassinating gossip out there because Castle is a "threat to American sovereignty." The only difference between this and Stalin is that O'Donnell and Walker don't have the power to send Castle to a work camp.

Anyone wondering why Castle won't endorse her can quit wondering."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/michaeltomasky

Posted by: bernielatham | September 18, 2010 8:42 AM | Report abuse

I haven't previously noted the events in France re Sarkozy and the gypsies (or the tensions now between Merkel and France) but it's all a pretty depressing story...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/16/roma-europe-pariah-people

Posted by: bernielatham | September 18, 2010 8:46 AM | Report abuse

Ha'aretz title writer with a sense of humor...

"Sacha Baron Cohen, who tried to solve the Middle East conflict in his 2009 comedy hit 'Bruno,' is now set to play the flamboyant former Queen front man."

Posted by: bernielatham | September 18, 2010 8:48 AM | Report abuse

We've got the values voter summit running against the holiest day in the Jewish Calendar. So I'm left to wonder again, are they implying that Jewish people have no values? Since none can attend this event. All the great moralists GOP leaders are there but all Christian. What does Eric Cantor think of this? Or another GOP Jewish member of Congress...oh wait.

Or maybe it is just that we don't share the "values" of a man of God like Mike Huckabee:

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/09/huckabee-opposes-insurance-for-people-with-pre-existing-conditions.php?ref=fpb

Posted by: zattarra | September 18, 2010 8:50 AM | Report abuse

"To keep in mind, the anti-establishment narrative of the TP,"

_________________

Anti-establishment???

They were created, organized, promoted, bought and paid for by the establishment, to protect and advance the establishment.

Posted by: sickofthemall | September 18, 2010 9:16 AM | Report abuse

@zattarra - Mike Tomasky had a good line yesterday likening the proportion of jews at Tea Party events as about that of their proportion at al qaeda functions.

Posted by: bernielatham | September 18, 2010 9:19 AM | Report abuse

@sickofthemall - I'm aware of the role of Freedom Works et al in the formation and organization of the TP (at least to the degree that this story has been revealed so far). But if you read the statements from the TP heroes, a constant talking point is "I'm a regular citizen not a part of the Republican establishment or DC."

It's the same PR move that was used by Gingrich in 94 (Armey was Gingrich's second at the time).

Posted by: bernielatham | September 18, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse

"Only 46 days until senators-elect Sharron Angle and Christine O'Donnell and Speaker-to-be John Boehner give victory speeches detailing their plans to restore our glorious center-right country from our nightmarish two-year lapse into socialism."

I saw that Imsinca linked the other day to the story of Obama at a 30K-per-plate fundraisng dinner mocking Liberals. It seems apparent by now that the Obama Administration and the Democratic Party Establishment would rather fail than act as Liberals or embrace Liberalism. There is simply no other logical explanation for why they would refuse to enact Liberal policies that are both good public-policy and good politically. In November, the Democratic Party and the Obama Administration will see what they have wrought upon themselves. The Democratic Party cannot function, never mind thrive, unless it embraces Liberals and Liberalism. Because it won't be definitive enough, I fully expect the November cataclysm to drive Democrats and Obama even further in the wrong direction as they will even further away from Liberals and Liberalism. The reckoning won't really come until 2012 when the Democratic Party may well cease being a viable political party and will have no choice but to recognize the obvious and embrace Liberals and Liberalism, or else perish.

Posted by: wbgonne | September 18, 2010 9:51 AM | Report abuse

wb - you mean, like this...

"The president conceded that it's too late to protect the integrity of this year's elections, but offered some sound advice to voters: "[A]ny time you see an attack ad by one of these shadowy groups, you should ask yourself, who is paying for this ad? Is it the health insurance lobby? The oil industry? The credit card companies?

"But more than that, you can make sure that the tens of millions of dollars spent on misleading ads do not drown out your voice. Because no matter how many ads they run - no matter how many elections they try to buy - the power to determine the fate of this country doesn't lie in their hands. It lies in yours. It's up to all of us to defend that most basic American principle of a government of, by, and for the people. What's at stake is not just an election. It's our democracy itself."
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_09/025730.php

Posted by: bernielatham | September 18, 2010 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Who'd have dreamed it would happen?

"O'DONNELL SNUBS SCHIEFFER
GOP Senate nominee Christine O'Donnell (DE) cancels her scheduled appearance tomorrow on CBS's Face the Nation. She is apparently still planning on doing Fox News Sunday."
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/09/odonnell_snubs_schieffer.php?ref=fpblg

Posted by: bernielatham | September 18, 2010 10:19 AM | Report abuse

On the earlier thread, I linked a piece on the modern plight of gypsies in France (particularly). Along with Jews, Hitler tried to rid the world of these folks with the consequence of some half million exterminated in camps. If I recall the sequences correctly, the initial mass-killing camps had gypsies, "mental deficients" and homosexuals as victims.

Some of you may have seen the incredible documentary on gypsy music title Latcho Drom. If you haven't and if you love music performed with extraordinary virtuosity, definitely watch this.

http://www.veoh.com/collection/music-documentary/watch/v630488799aG95g7

Posted by: bernielatham | September 18, 2010 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Bernie: Yes, Obama is dead right about Citizens United but that isn't the real problem. The real problem is that Obama and the Establishment Democrats aren't DOING anything to counter the Radical Right Propaganda Machine. Issuing vague warnings does nothing, neither does stating policy "preferences." Either fight for what matters or just go away, that's how I feel.

Democrats should recall the wisdom of Harry Truman:

"Given the choice between a real Republican and a fake Republican. ... the people will choose the real thing every time"

And President Obama should consider two other Truman comments:

"The buck stops here."

And if you can't -- or won't -- acknowledge that truism there's this:

"If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen."

Posted by: wbgonne | September 18, 2010 10:38 AM | Report abuse

...and Joe Miller too! I thinki Lisa Murkowski's new campaign slogan should be: Oh yes, she did!

Posted by: CalD | September 18, 2010 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Bernie, there are times when words are at odds with action and even other words. I don't think there's any getting around it really, it may be a result of beltway logic, but it doesn't resonate with the boots on the ground in many cases.

I've done this for a long time and in many ways it's nothing new. For a short period of time all Dems, liberals and progressives were working together and now we're opposed on many issues. It doesn't mean we're not engaged and not appreciative of progress, it means we don't necessarily buy the chatter all the time.

I personally believe that's a healthy atmosphere to enact change although at times it may seem counter-productive. We've seen both success and failure and the odds were always long that we could maintain a united front.

I understood tao's point last night, I'm not a marionette either.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 18, 2010 10:43 AM | Report abuse

So, I guess DC is already booked out Saturday night after the Oct 30 Cobert/Stewart rally's.

How come this blog didn't mention it? Is it a conflict between WaPo and Comedy Central or something? I don't get it.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 18, 2010 10:46 AM | Report abuse

And it looks like Murkowski isn't gonna give Saint Sarah this one and instead give her a big FU and not let her guy win in Alaska.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 18, 2010 10:51 AM | Report abuse

For years, Conservatism has been engaged in a systematic, highly-organized, and generously funded attack on Liberalism. Even since the New Deal, in fact. A Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, if you will. Why do Conservatives hate government? Because government provides the only effective constraint on the power of concentrated wealth. Why do Conservatives despise collective civic action? Same reason. What would modern Conservatives do to Jesus Christ if he appeared today? Take a guess.

Posted by: wbgonne | September 18, 2010 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Here's a great piece from FDL about the Campaign for Fair Elections. According to Obama's words that Bernie quoted this should be a no brainer for Dems and there are also conservatives out there who want their voices heard. It's moving it's way through Congress and we can help by calling our Reps and Senators.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Great ad by the Campaign for Fair Elections, reminding us that it’s not just progressives who are fed up with our corrupt, corporation-dominated electoral system. Well, at the ordinary citizen level, anyway.

It’s not that surprising, really – honest progressive and conservative (and moderate) voters all think they have the best ideas on how to fix the country, and simply want those ideas to fight it out on a level playing field, without a giant corporate thumb on the scale.

We all want the candidates with the most popular support to win, and to then make decisions based on what they believe is best for the country and their constituents, not corporations they feel beholden to. And above all, we want our politicians to care about our voices and our votes, to view us as their employers rather than an annoying cloud of gnats to be ducked, swatted, or waved away.

The Fair Elections Now Act doesn’t go far enough (I’m not sure that would even be constitutionally possible), but it’s a great start and worth supporting as it heads for a committee vote next Thursday. Please do whatever you can to help."

http://firedoglake.com/2010/09/17/progressives-and-conservatives-agree/

Posted by: lmsinca | September 18, 2010 11:07 AM | Report abuse

"The Grand Illusion"
by Charles Blow

[excerpt]
"Let me be clear: the idea of an inevitable Republican landslide in November is not a foregone conclusion. It’s a self-perpetuating bit of wishful thinking that’s gaining currency through the force of being recycled ad nauseam by overzealous pundits.

It’s no wonder then that Democrats with defeatist tendencies have bought into it. They are morose and slumped, prematurely assuming the crestfallen posture of a party rejected, rending their garments like a PETA spokeswoman in a meat dress.

Sure, some seats will change party control, but a landslide is hardly certain, particularly if Democrats can change their tune and energize their base. A New York Times/CBS News poll released this week asked respondents whom they would vote for in their own districts if the midterms were held today. Among those the poll determined to be likely voters, Republican candidates held a small edge. (Likely voter models are used to make predictions about the midterms.) However, among all registered voters, Democrats held a larger edge."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/18/opinion/18blow.html?hp

Be sure to sure to see the accompanying graphs of data that counters the "Republican wave" conventional wisdom among pundits and some prognosticators (some of which have a history of overstating Republicans' potential for gains -- here's looking at you, Charlie Cook).

Posted by: associate20 | September 18, 2010 11:24 AM | Report abuse

associate20, I highlighted a few local ballot issues here in CA that will bring out more liberal voters. We have Prop 19, legalization and Prop 23, which has out of state oil companies trying to kill a clean air act that was overwhelmingly supported by voters just a few years ago.

There may be some lack of enthusiasm in the Gov and Senate races, but if we're voting on these props anyway it's just as easy to register a vote against Whitman/Fiorina. It may be wishful thinking on my part, but I think local issues here will work up ticket in our favor.

I'm curious if there might be some of that going on in other states also.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 18, 2010 11:33 AM | Report abuse

"a landslide is hardly certain, particularly if Democrats can change their tune and energize their base."

But the Democratic Establishment isn't changing its tune or energizing its base. It is doing the exact opposite. So what does that do to Blow's thesis?

Posted by: wbgonne | September 18, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

lms and others, GOTV is going to be huge in this election. One of the reasons Blue Dog Dems are so vulnerable is that there isn't much incentive for the base to come out in their districts. Just "voting against" is important to us, but it doesn't register with many Dems who must be really sick of their pseudo-GOP Dem congressional rep.

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 18, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

BG, we live on a busy corner, well busy for a small town residential neighborhood, and I've ordered my signs. Hedrick, Boxer, and No on 23. I'm still deciding re Brown and 19, not how I'm going to vote but whether I want to advertise it or not. My husband gets nervous when I seriously get in campaign mode because it draws ire from some of our neighbors, one in particular. LOL

I'm doing a lot of work on the Hedrick campaign, calling, walking, answering phones etc. and I always mention the other local issues as well. We need to start our PL money bombs this week for progressives yes?

Posted by: lmsinca | September 18, 2010 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Brigade,

Since you are ashamed to admit that you are a Right Wing Republican, I have no interest in discussing anything with you. You spend all your time attacking Democrats only, but you are too ashamed of your Republican party to admit that you are one of them, so save your breath, gutless wonder.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 17, 2010 8:08 PM
------

I repost this comment here as a tribute to a buffoon. As you can see, Liam is a bit weak in the upper story---what we sometimes refer to as a lowbrainer.

He tells me that I am a Right Wing Republican even though I have clearly stated that I am a conservative Independent. Isn't it nice when one can simply make things up and argue with one's self? I hardly spend "all" my time attacking "Democrats only"; it only seems that way in the liberal echo chamber. If Liam doesn't think Democrats are well represented on this blog, he could always study more, so more of his posts would actually contain grains of truth and/or common sense. That might help restore the natural order.

Not only am I a Right Wing Republican---according to this bozo---but I am also ashamed of the fact and afraid to admit it. Oh, and I'm a gutless wonder as well.
I love insults and name-calling. It's what people usually provide when they have no defensible arguments. But I enjoy returning fire, so keep the insults coming.

And Liam has "no interest in discussing anything" with me. This seems pretty obvious since he hasn't really discussed anything. Personally, I don't recall ever even asking him to discuss anything with me. It's not all that challenging to debate with a moron. I do occasionally read his posts, however; they reveal that he rarely discusses anything with anyone. He provides plenty of snark and insults about Republicans but resents it when the favor is returned. On the rare occasions when I've seen him actually engage with one of the conservative posters on actual issues, he has been quickly and easily routed.

Since he spends most of each and every day posting here, it's possible he's among the ranks of freeloading deadbeats whom my taxes go to support. This would go a long way toward explaining his hostility toward all things non-liberal.

But keep the bilge coming. It doesn't have to be true or make sense. Many men have fought and died horrible deaths so idiots could retain the freedom to be idiots and spew their hateful drivel. I'll even continue paying taxes to support many of them.

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Here's a few little tidbits from Palin's speech last night at the Reagan fund-raising dinner.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"And Karl, Karl, go to (she pauses ever so slightly and her demeanor stiffens subtly) here. You can come to Iowa. And Karl Rove and the other leaders who will see the light and realize that these are just the normal hard-working patriotic Americans who are saying no, enough is enough. We want to turn this around and we want to get back to those time-tested truths that are right for America."

Palin's message at Friday night's Iowa fundraising dinner likely isn't going to leave the party any more unified than it was before her speech.

The fight for the future of the party continues. And it will involve Republicans violating what the man the fundraising dinner was named for — President Ronald Reagan — called the 11th commandment. Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2010/09/18/129953754/sarah-palin-tells-karl-rove-where-to-go

Posted by: lmsinca | September 18, 2010 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Who'd have dreamed it would happen?

"O'DONNELL SNUBS SCHIEFFER
GOP Senate nominee Christine O'Donnell (DE) cancels her scheduled appearance tomorrow on CBS's Face the Nation. She is apparently still planning on doing Fox News Sunday."
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/09/odonnell_snubs_schieffer.php?ref=fpblg

Posted by: bernielatham | September 18, 2010 10:19 AM
----

Harry Reid can always take her place with Schieffer, since his yellow streak prohibits him from appearing on Fox and answering questions.

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Yes on the money bomb. I gave via Balloon Juice, but we should do one here as well. I know Ethan will be into it.

And I know tao wants to keep Nancy as Speaker.

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 18, 2010 12:11 PM | Report abuse

@Imsinca:

Yeah, I agree that local ballot issues will boost enthusiasm in some of these races.

I also agree with the thinking that turnout may be higher than expected in races that feature some of the more controversial Tea Party candidates, and the presence of some of these Tea Party folks in high-profile races, particularly gubernatorial (e.g., FL & NY) & Senate races, will have a multiplier effect of sorts.

So, I wouldn't be surprised if turnout predictions end up being off, and perhaps dramatically so.

Posted by: associate20 | September 18, 2010 12:13 PM | Report abuse

So, I guess DC is already booked out Saturday night after the Oct 30 Cobert/Stewart rally's.

How come this blog didn't mention it? Is it a conflict between WaPo and Comedy Central or something? I don't get it.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 18, 2010 10:46 AM
----

Will Stuart Smalley be there?

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 12:13 PM | Report abuse

"And I know tao wants to keep Nancy as Speaker."

Oh good, I was wondering about that. Funny.

Why don't we choose a couple of great candidates each week who could use a little extra help and contribute directly to their campaigns. I'll do some research this afternoon and see who's close in the polls and could use the extra cash.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 18, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

And it looks like Murkowski isn't gonna give Saint Sarah this one and instead give her a big FU and not let her guy win in Alaska.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 18, 2010 10:51 AM |
----

I wouldn't count on Miller not winning in Alaska if I were you. Crist is actually on the ballot in Florida, but he isn't doing too well of late. How do you suppose a write-in candidacy is going to work? I suppose Murkowski might pull a few disgruntled Democrats away from their own candidate. What gets into these people? They have such a sense of entitlement and self importance that they just won't accept defeat.

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Now that the morning's half over, I better get to work on "stuff". Have a great Saturday all.

A20, agree also re Tea Party candidates, quite a motivator.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 18, 2010 12:21 PM | Report abuse

"@tao - I know the scene. "Tougher" is defined by what is to follow..."

Bernie, uh, actually, you don't. No biggie, that film probably wasn't quite up your street.

In the scene Willard hasn't gotten his mission yet. "Charlie" to him is just that: the VietCong. The "paradigmatic" (golly, B, your true colors come out & you don't even know it) soldier Kurtz is not remotely on his radar screen, or yet even possible in his worst nightmare. He has to go up the river for that.**

If you're going to critique cognitive capacities ya'll need to get yer own cog on, boy.

**{{Good gracious, I'm turning into Pauline freakin Kael...the Horror, the Horror...}}

Posted by: tao9 | September 18, 2010 12:26 PM | Report abuse

lms, yes on that. Let us know who to bomb.

With contributions, that is.

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 18, 2010 12:27 PM | Report abuse


Who'd have dreamed it would happen?

"O'DONNELL SNUBS SCHIEFFER
GOP Senate nominee Christine O'Donnell (DE) cancels her scheduled appearance tomorrow on CBS's Face the Nation. She is apparently still planning on doing Fox News Sunday."
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/09/odonnell_snubs_schieffer.php?ref=fpblg

Posted by: bernielatham | September 18, 2010 10:19 AM |

....................

"Witchcraft Dabbler" don't need no stinkin' "lamestream media".

Posted by: Liam-still | September 18, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Brigade, yes on the Murkowski Entitlement Watch. But for many of us it's fun to watch the Palin-Murk cage match. Plus I don't think anyone wants to watch Miller's beard for the next 6 years.

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 18, 2010 12:31 PM | Report abuse

tao, we're gonna need your credit card number (see upthread). Don't forget the expiration date.

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 18, 2010 12:33 PM | Report abuse

"a landslide is hardly certain, particularly if Democrats can change their tune and energize their base."

But the Democratic Establishment isn't changing its tune or energizing its base. It is doing the exact opposite. So what does that do to Blow's thesis?

Posted by: wbgonne
-------------------------

Oh, wbgonne, don't be such a sourpuss. :)

According to Gallup's generic poll last week, Dem enthusiasm is the highest it's been since May. It will likely increase -- perhaps not exponentially, but increase, nonetheless -- as we get closer to the election. It may not (or it may) match Republican enthusiasm. Regardless, it will probably increase enough to at least mitigate the "landslide" talk that's so ubiquitous among the punditocracy. And perhaps most importantly, that increase in Dem enthusiasm will translate into real votes at the polls.

Oh, by the way, GWU/Politico found Dems & Reps tied in the generic ballot. Dems are by no means out of this, despite what you may be hearing or may think.

[Side note: Remember that the LV models that are causing premature Republican gloating and Democratic despondency are not an exact science.]

Posted by: associate20 | September 18, 2010 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Why do Conservatives hate government? Because government provides the only effective constraint on the power of concentrated wealth. Why do Conservatives despise collective civic action? Same reason. What would modern Conservatives do to Jesus Christ if he appeared today? Take a guess.

Posted by: wbgonne | September 18, 2010 11:00 AM
----

I feel your frustration. But you're doing the same sort of thing of which you accuse the Right. I'm a conservative, but I don't hate government. I don't "despise collective civic action." And I don't want all the wealth in the hands of a small aristocracy. I don't know anyone who feels that way.

Tom Harkin and his wife have used their business friends and positions, his as U.S. Senator, to make themselves obscenely wealthy. He doesn't even live in the state he represents, he just shows up once a year for a steak fry and fundraiser. He tried to run as a Viet Nam vet until it was revealed that he did not serve in Viet Nam. His counterpart Chuck Grassley, on the other hand, is actually an Iowa farmer who spends his time in Iowa when he isn't in Washington. One is a man of character and integrity; the other, not so much. Yet blogs like this one would have us believe that because Grassley is a Republican, he is evil, but Harkin, because he is a liberal Democrat, is some shining example of virtue, a man of the people. Makes one want to vomit.

And could you be more specific about Conservatives and Jesus Christ? I'm not sure I got your drift.

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 12:35 PM | Report abuse

This Brigade Moron, recently defended what Newt Gingrich said about President Obama acting like a post colonial Kenyan.

A short time later, this Brigade Moron, said that he had not seen or read what Newt had said.

He is a Far Right Wing Trolling Moron, who is trying to pass as something else. He only attacks Democrats, and defends the likes of Newt, even though he admitted he was defending a statement that he had no knowledge of.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 18, 2010 12:37 PM | Report abuse

BG & lms,

Just send me the $$$ for Ms. Pelosi directly. I'll hand deliver it to 'Frisco.

What? Excuse me? No, I will not spend it on Pat Boone tickets! sheesh

I gotta tell you I don't really have much animus for the Speaker personally, or most anyone on the port side 'o center. They're all part of the cavalcade, kinda Homeric and fascinating. Don't ascribe eeevvillll to any of 'em.

Posted by: tao9 | September 18, 2010 12:37 PM | Report abuse

But the Democratic Establishment isn't changing its tune or energizing its base. It is doing the exact opposite. So what does that do to Blow's thesis?

Posted by: wbgonne | September 18, 2010 11:48 AM
----

It's just gibberish. If things don't go as predicted, these people will always come back with a theory about why they were really right even though they got it wrong.

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 12:38 PM | Report abuse

"energize the base" is an oxymoron. If they are not perpetually energized, they are not "the base".

Posted by: Liam-still | September 18, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

tao, good idea on the hand delivery, but we really don't think you can control yourself, re: Pat Boone.

Your weakness for the crooners is legendary. Probably the reason you're a net-minder.

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 18, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

I wonder if it might not be worthwhile to bomb Harry Reid's office with messages about how the progressive base, which has been given the back of the hand by the Senate these past two years, might get out and work their a**es off to preserve the Congressional majority if we could get some kind of a pledge about reform of the filibuster.

Because I am the base, and I gotta say, my feeling for quite some time has been that it really isn't going to matter all that much who controls either House as long as the obstructionist Senate Republicans are allowed to abuse the rules. I'd feel a lot more "energized" if I knew there would be something more closely approximating true majority rule in the next session of Congress.

Posted by: JennOfArk | September 18, 2010 12:57 PM | Report abuse

This Brigade Moron, recently defended what Newt Gingrich said about President Obama acting like a post colonial Kenyan.

A short time later, this Brigade Moron, said that he had not seen or read what Newt had said.

He is a Far Right Wing Trolling Moron, who is trying to pass as something else. He only attacks Democrats, and defends the likes of Newt, even though he admitted he was defending a statement that he had no knowledge of.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 18, 2010 12:37 PM
-----

Once again, Liam demonstrates his ignorance and resorts to childish name-calling in the absence of actual facts. I believe I said I was not in the business of defending everything Newt Gingrich says. I'm not even a fan of Gingrich. Liam admits that I said I had not read Gingrich's remarks or the D'Souza article to which they made reference; yet he accuses me of defending them.

For anyone not present on the actual thread referenced, I merely responded to the usual leftwing "Gingrich is a racist" nonsense spewed by Liam (or whomever actually posted it). There was blather about White Masters and making beasts of burden of indigenous peoples. I commented that this sort of race-baiting blather was tiresome and suggested that if Gingrich had actually come out in support of such nonsense, then Liam would likely have provided the actual quotes instead of simply alluding, concluding, and implying.

As for the D'Souza/Gingrich comments about Obama's "Post Colonial Kenyan" philosophy, I still have not read D'Souza's piece, but from what I've heard, it sounds a bit idiotic---some conservative brain-farting that Gingrich should well have stayed clear of if he has presidential aspirations. Just to set the record straight.

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 12:59 PM | Report abuse

@tao: "Bernie, uh, actually, you don't. No biggie, that film probably wasn't quite up your street."

Fair enough. Been a long time since I saw this film that only a certain sort of strong personality like your own can manage. Had "charlie" as US boys.

Posted by: bernielatham | September 18, 2010 1:03 PM | Report abuse

He is a Far Right Wing Trolling Moron. . .-----

Well, at least he didn't call me a Republican again. Maybe there's hope.

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 1:04 PM | Report abuse

I was on the thread that Brigade refers to, so I think I followed the swings and roundabouts on the issue.

I am also, like Brigade, not a fan of Gingrich. If someone had said "Gingrich is the biggest dummy since ..." I would have immediately discounted the writer. However, if someone said that Gingrich is whipping up the base on subtle racist rantings, I would NOT leap to his defense. I would leap to his actual words, because Gingrich is certainly capable of doing just what the writer has suggested. Gingrich' style is one of suggesting and implying and letting the reader draw his own awful conclusions.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Jenn, I'd agree with getting Reid to be a strong majority leader, but I don't have that much hope.

Also, too, he's just going to be lucky to win the election against Miss Loony Toons. Let's hope that after he does he comes out swinging. I'll never understand why Dem pols always react to adversity by shrinking into their shells. Their voters aren't like that, so why don't they get a clue?

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 18, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

"They threw Pat Boone on me" Little Richard.

And yes they did. It is hilarious to watch some of those old clips of Pat Boone, singing stuff that belonged to Little Richard, because the music label wanted to put a white face on the music that more and more young white people were being drawn to.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 18, 2010 1:11 PM | Report abuse

jennofark wrote,
"I wonder if it might not be worthwhile to bomb Harry Reid's office with messages about how the progressive base, which has been given the back of the hand by the Senate these past two years . . ."
----

Gawd. You don't think ole Harry's been progressive enough? Nancy Pelosi has a safe seat. Here's a suggestion: the next time Democrats choose a Senate Majority Leader to carry water for all of these leftwing causes, don't pick someone from Nevada or South Dakota. Give it to John Kerry. It makes the hill too high to climb for people like Reid or Daschle when they have to run for re-election and tell the folks back home that they're really moderates.

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 1:12 PM | Report abuse

So, apparently this Brigade Troll wants to convince us that he does not vote for Republicans, and is not supporting their nominees in the up coming elections.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 18, 2010 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Brigade - you needn't assume such superiority based on your misreadings of other people's comments.

The progressives ARE the Democratic base. They are the people who go out and work to elect Democrats, who contribute to Democrats, etc.

I don't think I said anything about whether Harry Reid has been "progressive enough" about anything. What I said was that progressives - the people who made the Democratic Senate majority a reality - have been given the back of the hand on virtually everything, and the go-to excuse has been "these mean bad Republicans won't let us get anything done." Which might be a legitimate excuse if not for the fact that the majority party has the ability to set the rules. Which leads to asking "what difference does it make if you're the majority or not if you're going to let the minority call the shots anyway?"

Total comprehension fail on your part.

Posted by: JennOfArk | September 18, 2010 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Great point -


To the extent that Christine O'Donnell's views are religious views, she deserves respect for going up there and standing up for her views.


Instead, the left mocks her.


The left DISRESPECTS her religious views.

Quite a bit different from how the left treats the Imam in New York - the slumlord who has all sorts of financial problems. - You don't hear the left mocking him or making life difficult for him.


In fact, the Imam in New York probably has STRICTER religious views on personal conduct than Christine O'Donnell.


The left constantly has double standards.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

I have no complaints about how Harry Reid has performed, as Majority Leader. No one is perfect, except those Left Handed Flo-Thru TeaBags, who blame him for not having fulfilled all of their fantasies.

Harry got a great deal of legislation passed. I would rather see him returned as Majority Leader, than see the spot go to Chuck Schumer or Dick Durbin.

Schumer has already pissed on Unions, and while Dick Durbin is a very nice guy, I doubt if he is up to task of constantly having to herd cats.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 18, 2010 1:27 PM | Report abuse

I think STRF is onto something. A new slogan:

Vote O'Donnell -- America's Im'am

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Take your victory lap, STRF. You deserve it. It only took ten thousands lines of "impeach Obama for being President while black" for you to finally come up with something useful.

A big hand of applause, folks.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

"Had "charlie" as US boys."

No you didn't, B, your too schmarht for that.

Don't hide your light under a bushel basket...Weston grad, DITC cert and all!

Posted by: tao9 | September 18, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

think STRF is onto something. A new slogan:

Vote O'Donnell -- America's Im'am

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 1:28 PM |

..................

Vote O'Donnell

America's Witchcraft Dabbler.

She really is a Palin Clone. Recall how Quitter Palin was canonized as "The One" by an African Witch Doctor?

Posted by: Liam-still | September 18, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Liam - it really isn't going to matter who the majority leader is if the filibuster isn't reformed. My complaint isn't with Reid so much as it is with Senate Democrats en masse. I think Republican obstructionism has proved them with convenient cover for not doing a lot of things that really need to be done; so I can't see much of a reason to send them back to warm seats in another lame-duck session where an obstructionist minority is allowed to abuse rules (rules the Democratic majority has the ability to change at the beginning of the session) to make sure nothing gets done. For a lot of the Dems in the Senate, this is the entirety of the goal - "send me back; I won't get anything done but at least I'm not a Republican!"

With Obama in the White House wielding the veto pen, I don't have any real fears that Republican majorities in the House or Senate (or both) could do the type of damage they did under Bush, so where's my motivation to vote if the Democrats aren't going to pledge to do something to make this obstructionism more difficult?

Posted by: JennOfArk | September 18, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

@Jenn,

Do you mind if I ask you some questions? You represent some part of the base that is pretty disgruntled for good reason.

What would have to happen for you to vote? What would the Democrats have to do? Or, conversely, what would the opposition have to do to energize you to vote.

I'm not trying to trip you up or anything. I'm just curious so as to learn something.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Vote O'Donnell - Pants Police

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

@Ims "I understood tao's point last night, I'm not a marionette either."

Sheesh. We are each a mix of both. But the one side is far less visible and less comfortable to us and so, more dangerous in the ignoring. One comes away from Weston's group's work rather sobered.

But aside from all this stuff, I've just gotten some news re family which is unhappy and it is going to entail a change in how I utilize my time. I likely won't be here much over the next several months. I've dropped off a note to Greg but wanted to note it here too. All the best for a while folks.

Posted by: bernielatham | September 18, 2010 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Jenn,

What specific Filibuster Reform would you like to see put in place.

I am not crazy about how it is currently being used, but I also am not sure that changing it, to make it easier to pass legislation, with less than sixty votes would serve us well in the long run.

Remember; that which is made easier to pass, can just as easily be reversed, in the same manner.

There will be another Republican President with a Republican majority, so I would not like to make it easy for them to reverse what has just recently been hard won.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 18, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

12Bar - well, there's nothing anyone could do to get me to vote in my state's Senate race. Blanche Lincoln seems to inspire this type of response in everyone who isn't part of her corporate clientele. For me it's the fact that I'll be paying a $250 monthly premium - or more - for crappy insurance when I might have had the choice of a more affordable public insurance option...and I'm better off than the majority of people in the state. I do think, though, that a pledge to reform rules so that actual legislating and governing can occur would be helpful in most states. I know I can't be the only one sick of hearing Democrats offer excuses which just happen to allow them not to do things that might piss off rich people.

I will be voting in the house race, the governor's race, and the local races.

But I'm really sick of excuses about why Democrats can't do what they were elected to do, and I know I'm nowhere near alone in that. We complain all the time about the slanted media narrative, and yes it is slanted, but it isn't going to change if Democrats keep running the same defensive play. They're in a situation now where they could change that narrative by changing the rules; the fact that it's not even on the radar indicates to me that they aren't interested in changing the narrative and are instead completely content to hide behind the cover offered by Republican obstructionism.

That's just not really inspiring to me.

Posted by: JennOfArk | September 18, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

bernielatham 8:42 AM


All the campaigns have gotten unnecessarily nasty.

Mike Castle is not being honest - when he was the candidate with the most money - and the most ability to put 30 second attack ads on, the system was OK for him, right?


The only way to change that is to create a system which drastically reduces the influence of a the 30 second attack ad -


The incumbents like the current system - because it allows them to stay in power even when the chips are down.


So Mike Castle doesn't look good now.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

There is someone here whose name is "wiccan" - that is witchcraft.


Obviously Christine O'Donnell was able to cast a spell on Mike Castle.

So, what about the "Bearded Marxist" - send him to Washington to hang out with Obama? What do you think about that?


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Vote O'Donnell - Pants Police

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 1:45 PM
....................
Vote O'Donnell

She will provide a Chastity Belt for every crotch.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 18, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Liam - I know it's a knife that cuts both ways.

But the Republicans showed no hesitation to threaten the "nuclear option" to get their way. It's the same old story - Democrats continue to bring knives to gunfights.

In the pre-2006 congress, what difference would it have made if the Republicans could pass things with a simple majority? Little to none - they passed pretty much everything they wanted with the help of Democrats. So I have to say I'm not all that concerned about a filibuster reform being "used against us", because the fact is, there are always Democrats ready, willing, and able to capitulate to Republican demands at the drop of a hat.

Posted by: JennOfArk | September 18, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

@Jenn,

Thanks for your thoughtful answer. What you said, I think, is that you will not vote for Blanche Lincoln. Period.

And that you will vote on the other state races.

I hear you about changing the filibuster rules. I don't have the strong feelings you have about changing the rules since it cuts both ways, but in general, I do find it irritating that the minority can veto the majority.

Oh, BTW, not to disparage your opinion about your health premiums, but--if I could pay ONLY $250/month for health insurance, I would literally speed to that opportunity. I'm speaking as a cancer survivor who is uninsurable at any price.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Bernie,
Good Luck and Godspeed w/ your family duties. Best hopes for a positive resolution and your return.
Sincerely,
tao


Posted by: tao9 | September 18, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Bernie, I'm sorry you're leaving us for awhile, hurry back and best of luck with the unhappy news. Life is a minefield at times for each of us. Anyway, I'll miss you and your thought provoking posts.

BTW, my point re marionettes was not to say propaganda doesn't occur but that not everyone is always susceptible to it. It's definitely a force to be reckoned with on the right and it's important to keep the worst in check by underlining where and when it occurs. By the same token I don't like feeling I'm being played from the left, establishment or otherwise.

Please check in when you can, we'll miss you if you don't. Love, surfer girl (lol)

Posted by: lmsinca | September 18, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

12Bar - sorry to hear about your health insurance woes. It's people like you who most needed a more substantive reform, though I'm glad we got what we got at least. And yes, $250 is a lot less than a lot of people pay - but I'm in a very poor state which has something to do with it, I have a $5000 deductible, and the only reason my premium is that low is because I've been fortunate enough to not have any medical issues - I've taken exactly one round of antibiotics in the past 20 years.

Posted by: JennOfArk | September 18, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

........Vote O'Donnell
Keeps her eyes on YOUR chastity

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Did people even notice that Sharron Obtuse Angle called for Harry Reid to debate her, and when he agreed to do so, she then canceled the debate, which she had asked for.
Somehow, this Brigade clown, turned that act of cowardice, on the part of Sharron Obtuse Angle into claiming that Harry Reid has "a yellow streak".

Notice this this Brigade clown does not call all those Republican nominees who will appear only on Fox, "yellow".

Posted by: Liam-still | September 18, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Why all this noise about the Tea Parties? There may be many tea partiers, but I am yet to find a Tea Party that forcefully supported a candidate in a Democratic Primary, much less one that won. So, for all the noise about the Tea Parties, they only seem to have supported candidates who competed in Repulican Primaries. So why is everybody acting like they represent more that a fringe (or maybe a smidgen more) of the Republican Party?

I believe that when it is all said and done, the Tea Party will turn out to be no more than say what the Anti-War movement was to the Democratic Party in the '60s...a rabble-rousing wing of one party and not representative of the whole country.

Posted by: ZnanaB | September 18, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

I've taken exactly one round of antibiotics in the past 20 years.
-------------------------------
May it be so in another 20 years.

I'm perhaps on the edge of getting into one of the high risk pools created by the HCR bill, so cross your fingers. Otherwise, it's wait for Medicare.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 2:08 PM | Report abuse

ZnanaB,

Amen, sister/brother, amen.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Little girls hold tea parties with imaginary friends, so I guess the name is appropriate even though, as noted by ZnanaB, it's still just the rabid fringe of the Republican party.

Posted by: JennOfArk | September 18, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues, my oldest daughter is thankfully in the application process for the high risk pool here in CA. All the negative genetic material, re allergies, landed in one tiny body. She hasn't had insurance in over a year since she finished her masters. She's teaching at a community college, but so far only part time, so no insurance.

Good luck.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 18, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Did somebody say MONEYBOMB for a Progressive Majority?

Where and when.

Where and when.

Fired up.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | September 18, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Bernie, sorry to hear that and best of luck!!

We'll miss you so hurry back when you can.

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 18, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

And Mitch McConnell wants to add Four Trillion Dollars to the national debt, just to continue the Bush Tax Cuts for Fat Cats.

Strange how all those TeaBaggers, who claim that they are all about putting our financial house in order, have raised no objections to Mitch's plan to add another Four Trillion Dollars to the national debt.

Me thinks these Teabaggers be very Strange Fiscal Hawks. Aye; indeed they must all be Dyslexic Fiscal Hawks.

Or else they be nothing but a bunch of Stupid Koch Suckers.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 18, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

I KNEW Ethan would be here once the $bomb talk started.

lms is gonna make a slate and let us know.

I bet we can even get Kevin Willis to contribute. And I'm sure qb and Scott will want to keep solidarity and add their dough.

And really, who likes to redistribute wealth more than STR!

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 18, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse

lmsinca,

Are you saying your young daughter is uninsurable because of allergies?

I'm also in CA. Does your daughter have to show evidence of being turned down for insurance?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse

lmsinca,

You are talking about the new high risk pool, created by the new health bill--not the old state high risk pool, right?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

12Bar, she's not so young at 30 but yes. When her insurance ran out last August she applied through numerous companies to no avail. We're trying to get a hold of rejection letters but most of it was done over the phone.

She's reapplied with Anthem and requested a decision in writing. Other than that she's ready to go. Because of her youth her premium will be under $300 but just barely. It's not the first time she's been without, she went three years before going back to school and thereby qualifying for their student insurance. Between 24 and 27 she worked for a non-profit organization and none of them had insurance.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 18, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Bernie,

I will miss your presence here. All the best.


Have a great weekend all,to both my political friends and foes alike.

Democrats: Just hold your noses and vote for a straight Democratic ticket. I always do, because once the primaries have nominated a slate, I back it, even though many times, my preferred candidates were not chosen.

I would not sit out any election, nor skip voting for any Democratic nominee for Senate or House seats.

It is better to vote to keep seats out of Republican ranks, always.

Hold your noses and vote for to keep Republicans from taking over.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 18, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Bernie,

I hope the family situation is rectifiable or at least made easier with comfort, love and proximity.

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | September 18, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

12Bar, yeah the new one. The old one put her on a waiting list and it was too expensive for her anyway at about $450-$500.

Allergies sounds rather benign doesn't it? She's had sever asthma since birth, also drug and insect allergies, and usually winds up in the emergency room or the hospital a couple times a year. When she still lived at home we got really friendly with the local fire department, they're only about two blocks down the street thank god.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 18, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

@lmsinca,

I have the PCIP info here. I have wondered what would be adequate to show uninsurability. I find it hard to believe that insurance companies are going to do anything to make it easier for someone to get into the high risk pool. I don't have any written evidence either. God, there's always something, isn't there.

So allergies make you uninsurable. I met a woman in Georgia who was uninsurable because she used that stuff you use for athlete's foot. But, she was still against HCR. Go figure.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

@lmsinca,

I'm so sorry you and your daughter have this cross to bear. You never know, do you, what people go through. Here's to Anthem coughing up with that rejection letter.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Liam-still - whether I vote or not Blanche is going to lose, and what's more, she deserves to.

This will be the first time I've abstained from voting on any race or issue since I was 18 years old. But there's no way I can cast another vote for Blanche, not after the way she screwed HCR. I had no great love for her prior to that, thanks to her overweening concern for Wal-Mart and any other corporate client who waved a dollar in front of her face. Remember her attempt to permanently abolish the estate tax? Yeah, that's really important to the majority of citizens here in Arkansas, what with our high per-capita income rate of $30,000.

No way will I vote for her, and no way would I ever vote for the nutbag who's destined to replace her...so I'm sitting that one out.

Posted by: JennOfArk | September 18, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

You will be missed Bernie.

Posted by: cmccauley60 | September 18, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

12Bar - can't remember if this was in the Frontline episode about health care around the world, or Moore's Sicko, but there was a woman who had her policy rescissioned because of a yeast infection she'd had 15 years previously.

Posted by: JennOfArk | September 18, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

12Bar, we tend to roll with the punches around here and I won't go into details now but our family has an even worse story to tell. As a matter of fact it was one of the stories Grayson told on the House floor. We're involved in a lawsuit, my first ever, against one of the big insurance co's on behalf of my niece. Ethan and a few others here can testify to my animosity (being diplomatic) for the insurance death panels. It's a long story.

Ethan, I thought we'd start this coming week and do a couple of candidates every week who seem to be making a run for it and could use a little financial assistance. I've been doing it all along, and I know you have also, but it's nice to get something going as a group. Remember the challenge we did last year for the free clinics?

Posted by: lmsinca | September 18, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

lmsinca,

Some time, you must repeat the story, if you can bear it.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

"Once again, Liam demonstrates his ignorance and resorts to childish name-calling in the absence of actual facts."

Brigade, you are just learning what many of us know. Trust me, it only gets worse. Liam is a childish senior who is also a rank liar. And I am not using that term lightly.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 18, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Oh great. So O'Donnell is a devil worshiper.

lol Wasn't she just at the value voter summit? I wonder if she let them know she used to worship Satan?

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 18, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

@jenn,

Since insurance companies don't underwrite individuals until they have a large claim (talk about finding a way to be efficient), then they look for ANYTHING to rescind the policy. I would not be surprised to see them rescind your policy if you transposed your phone number.

On the voting topic, if you've decided that Blanche Lincoln does not deserve your vote, so be it. Sometimes enough is enough. I'm glad you're still involved in the political process and will otherwise vote. People like you will help the process. The ones I worry about are the ones who totally divorce themselves from all voting because of one incident.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Looks like the gay groups have a reason to SUPPORT CHRISTINE O'DONNELL

From a newly released Bill Maher interview:


Christine O'Donnell says:


"One of my first dates with a witch was on a satanic altar, and I didn't know it. I mean, there's little blood there and stuff like that. ... We went to a movie and then had a midnight picnic on a satanic altar."


____________________________

So, all the liberals who support ABSOLUTE Religious Freedom, like the mosque, should support her.

ALL the gay groups should support Christine O'Donnell

Seems like her appeal is wide-ranging.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

12Bar

How do you like that quote from Christine


Sounds like you should be sending her a donation, huh?

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

STRF - I support O'Donnell's freedom to believe whatever bat***t insane things she wants to believe.

That's no reason to support her politically. "Candidate X believes the same unprovable things I believe!" is not a sound basis for making voting decisions. First off, maybe Candidate X doesn't actually believe the same unprovable things you believe - maybe he or she is just lying to get your vote. Secondly, maybe Candidate X sincerely believes the same unprovable things you believe, but is an incompetent moron in addition. Thirdly, maybe the unprovable things that both you and Candidate X believe are wrong - which you'll never be able to prove one way or the other, because they're unprovable.

In short, voting for someone just because they believe the same unprovable thing you believe is about the dumbest thing you could base a voting decision upon.

Posted by: JennOfArk | September 18, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

There will be another Republican President with a Republican majority, so I would not like to make it easy for them to reverse what has just recently been hard won.

Posted by: Liam-still


_________________________________

Yea, the democrats needed Specter to switch parties

A bogus Court case in Minnesota


A bogus law in Massachusetts which was PROVEN to be against the will of the people.


And an unbelievable - quasi-constitutional reconciliation process

The whole thing was a joke - from A to Z

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

12Bar and Jenn, this will crack you up, my uninsured daughter came home Labor Day weekend and brought her new boyfriend. I was very coyly trying to find out if he had insurance through work, just in case there might be a wedding in the works. Of course they've only been dating for about a month. My daughter caught on to my shenanigans (I thought I was being so subtle) though and secretly told me he purchases his own insurance and isn't covered through work, and told me to knock it off. Damn.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 18, 2010 3:18 PM | Report abuse

JennOfArk 3:15 PM


Your remark about "unprovable" is wrong and OFFENSIVE


It is about time the liberals start to learn what is OFFENSIVE and what is not.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

"We are each a mix of both. But the one side is far less visible and less comfortable to us and so, more dangerous in the ignoring. One comes away from Weston's group's work rather sobered."

What I find is: (1) Weston's theory cannot account for how people first arrive at their opinions; (2) it is a bit odd to be judgmental about what it finds to be simply the way human brains function;(3) the extension of his cognitive findings as an explanation for GOP versus Dem electoral successes is pure speculation and an oddly partisan abuse of "science"; and (4) it is even more odd for Dems to be paranoid about GOP manipulation when Weston is a Dem partisan whose work and advice are being used by Dems.

But best wishes during your challenges, Bernie.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 18, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

JennOfArk 3:15 PM


The liberals run around - complaining all the time that they find this or that offensive.


However, the liberals NEVER stop and think - that people around them find THEIR VIEWS OFFENSIVE.

It is about time - that all people are created equally - I find your remarks OFFENSIVE - and it is about time someone told you just how OFFENSIVE YOU ARE.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

You're offended - I get it.

In fact, you suffer from OFFENSENSITIVITY.

Still and all, Christine O'Donnell can no more prove anything she believes about what God wants - or even in fact that there IS a God, than Scientologists can prove all the stuff about thetans. I respect their right to believe it, but it in no way proves their competence in any given sphere of life.

Posted by: JennOfArk | September 18, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

There will be another Republican President with a Republican majority, so I would not like to make it easy for them to reverse what has just recently been hard won.

Posted by: Liam-still


_____________________________


In Pennsylvania, the voters there voted for a REPUBLICAN - they did NOT vote for Specter to SWITCH parties.

In Minnesota that was a BOGUS Court case.

IN Massachusetts- the legislature changed the law, after having changed it just a few years before.


THE VOTERS IN MASSACHUSETTS CLEARLY WANTED A REPUBLICAN TO REPRESENT THEM - and the legislature worked against that sentiment.

The point is THE 60 VOTES OBAMA HAD nn health care - it was BOGUS and transitory -

The 60 VOTES was NOT based on the sentiment of the voters - the expression of the voters at the ballot box.

The democrats used this TEMPORARY 60 VOTES - which lasted like 8 months - to make PERMANENT changes on AMERICA.

Something is wrong with this - something is severly illegitimate.


If the democrats are comfortable with JAMMING THEIR OPINIONS ON EVERYONE ELSE THIS WAY,


Then the democrats should be comfortable with what is going to happen down the road.


,

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

"BTW, my point re marionettes was not to say propaganda doesn't occur but that not everyone is always susceptible to it. It's definitely a force to be reckoned with on the right and it's important to keep the worst in check by underlining where and when it occurs. By the same token I don't like feeling I'm being played from the left, establishment or otherwise."

But then you wouldn't feel it if you were being played. That's sorta the whole idea.

Democrats have always appealed to envy, greed, resentment, victimhood, scapegoating, etc. -- the worst in people. But it is all largely done in the open. It doesn't require brain research see.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 18, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Bernie:

I wish you the best in your family matters. I, too, will miss your comments, especially waking to your bon mots on the Morning Plum.

Posted by: wbgonne | September 18, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

JennOfArk 3:30 PM


Your remarks today about religion - and one's religious beliefs are OFFENSIVE

Not sure what your come-back is, or even if it makes sense.

Perhaps an apology would be appropriate.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Not long ago, Frank Rich mentioned a book in his Times column: Invisible Hands by NYU Professor Kim Phillips-Fein. I have just finished the book and I can say without hesitation that this is the most important book I have ever read for understanding the nature of modern American politics and the rise of the Conservative Movement. PLEASE read this book.

Posted by: wbgonne | September 18, 2010 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Climb down off the cross, Mary.

Look, there are about 38,000 flavors of Christianity out there, for the simple reason that none of them can PROVE that they and they alone are correct.

They can't all be right, can they?

In fact, 37,999 of them must be wrong on at least some of the particulars. And there's the possibility that NONE of them are right.

Which just goes to yet again underline the stupidity of voting on the basis of a candidate believing the same unprovable things you believe.

Look, be offended all you like. There's a reason it's referred to as religious FAITH, and that reason is that NONE OF IT CAN BE PROVEN. Things that CAN be proven are referred to as FACTS; things that can't be are FAITH.

Sorry the English language and basic logic causes you such extreme b***hurt.

Posted by: JennOfArk | September 18, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

You guys missed the whole quote - you have to read the whole thing


Christine O'Donnell says:


"One of my first dates with a witch was on a satanic altar, and I didn't know it. I mean, there's little blood there and stuff like that. ... We went to a movie and then had a midnight picnic on a satanic altar."


_________________________________


12Bar should now be supporting Christine O'Donnell

But lets us make clear - Christine O'Donnell has admitted being in a lesbian relationship.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

So, Christine O'Donnell is a gay Satan worshiper.

That's pretty cool.

That should help with the gay Satan worshiping votes.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 18, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

mikefromArlington 4:06 PM


I thought your pal Obama said that Freedom of Religion was absolute.


And you said that even if Obama was a muslim, it shouldn't matter.


(Obama should just admit he is a muslim, and is loyal to Indonesia, and get it over with)


But there should not be a religious Test - right ???


And if Christine O'Donnell IS gay, it shouldn't matter, right ?


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

"But then you wouldn't feel it if you were being played. That's sorta the whole idea."

How can you find something to argue with me on this? I was basically agreeing to the notion that "both sides do it" and some percentage of the population sees through it. There are susceptible people on both sides of the fence who's emotions, fears, and sense of values are easily manipulated.

We can agree to disagree on our political philosophy, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree that both sides do it, sheesh.

Tao made the point that not every conservative sings in tune to the far right propaganda machine and I was agreeing. Can't you also agree that not every one on the left falls into the category of "envy, resentment and victimhood" as you seem to think? Most of us aren't socialist free-loaders living off the taxes paid by the rich either.

Shouldn't I feel free to criticize my own party or it's leaders and still be considered one of them? That was my point to Bernie.

Isn't there some room in there for people to simply be conservative or liberal because they genuinely believe in those principles? Shouldn't the debate center around policy that adheres to those principles?

Posted by: lmsinca | September 18, 2010 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Mike, 12Bar, et al


Article 6 of the US Constitution says

"but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

So, even if Christine O'Donnell is a wiccan,


And had a hearty meal on a "blood-stained" altar - at midnight.

Was the moon full that night? She doesn't say.

Pretty hot, huh?

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Christine O'Donnell says:


"One of my first dates with a witch was on a satanic altar, and I didn't know it. I mean, there's little blood there and stuff like that. ... We went to a movie and then had a midnight picnic on a satanic altar."


_______________________________

Christine O'Donnell really has something for everyone - the wide range of her appeal is really breathtaking.

Now, all Christine needs is something for the vampire vote, and she will be good to go.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

I could give a crap what religion she is or that she is gay. I just think Satan worshiper is f'in hilarious and also her being a lesbian kinda flies in the face of the value voters summit as a big F.U.

She sounds like another Larry Craig and will eventually come out of the closet after railing against gay rights along with the fanatics who support her.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 18, 2010 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Who's going to be the Tina Fey to Christine O'Donnell? This is just too good...

Throw her in the lake and see if she floats!

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 4:26 PM | Report abuse

lmsinca at 4;13


You are all being played - the democratic leadership is just USING its partisans to go make their inside deals with big corporations.

Let's face it - everytime a democrat comes in - the LAST thing on their list is poor people, or the inner cities.


The FIRST thing a democrat does is SELL-OUT to the big corporate interests.


Free trade deals, wall street deals - campaign contributions - THAT is what the democrats REALLY want.

"working families," "inner-cities," "bipartisanhsip," "post-racial policies" - it is all a bunch of CRAP


The democrats NEVER intend to do anything about those things - they LIED TO YOU.


The democrats are a bunch of SELL-OUTS.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Bwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You should see what they're saying on Baptist.net.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

I guess I still get floored when all this bizarre stuff comes out of Republican candidates the nutroots are in a bind and have to defend these loony toons.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 18, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Maher joked that he's going to show a new clip of O'Donnell every week on his show until she agrees to appear on his show again.

Said Maher: "I'm just saying, Christine, it's like a hostage crisis, every week you don't show up, I'm going to throw another body out."

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?p=602048
---------------------------------
Buckle up. It's going to be a bumpy ride. But promises to be oh so funny.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

O'Donnell's staff today canceled her scheduled appearances on Fox News Sunday and Face the Nation tomorrow. It seems apparent that O'Donnell was not properly vetted as a candidate and that she will be more the butt of jokes for the next six weeks than a serious candidate. This is not what the conservative movement needs.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/09/027251.php

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 4:39 PM | Report abuse

I bet Castle is wishing Maher wouldn't have held out. :)

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 18, 2010 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Maybe Rove knew a lot more than he said when he called her unelectable.

And Rove's the dummy? I'll bet anything there are no video's of him, with frou-froued hair, looking a lot like Marie Osmond redux, talking about his first date with a witch (but I never joined a coven).

Bwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Like I said, O'Donnell will just continue to build onto the meme this new breed of teaparty candidates aren't fit to be in the Senate.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 18, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

"O'Donnell's staff today canceled her scheduled appearances on Fox News Sunday and Face the Nation tomorrow."

How bad is she that they don't even trust her on Fox? Bwahahahahahahahahah!

Posted by: schrodingerscat | September 18, 2010 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Looks like Rove was right the first time. How much money did she raise the last couple of days that could have gone to better candidates?

Posted by: lmsinca | September 18, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

God, please PLEASE do not let her step down. Please keep campaigning, Christine. Now I have a reason to contribute to your campaign, Christine.

CHRISTINE, are you listening?????

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 4:48 PM | Report abuse

I wonder when rumors of a Democratic effort to get O'Donnell nominated the GOP nominee will start to surface.

I'm guessing as soon as they've accepted she's unelectable and becomes the brunt of every comic's jokes out there.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 18, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Vote O'Donnell
Once a witch, but never a coven

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 4:51 PM | Report abuse

afk a bit

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 18, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

From an O'Donnell supporter:

It is obvious that if O'Donnell is to have a chance at winning this election, she will need to go negative early on, pounding Coons with his leftist, high taxes, job-destroying record.
------------------------------
Make sure that the word coven does NOT come up. Avoid coven, craven, come on, covet and coventry, just in case.

Bwahahaha!!!!!!!!!!! Who says politics isn't a game?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 4:55 PM | Report abuse

12Bar


She WILL float - that much is sure.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 4:56 PM | Report abuse


I stand by this statement - and this is the REAL reason the country wants to get rid of all the democrats


lmsinca at 4;13


You are all being played - the democratic leadership is just USING its partisans to go make their inside deals with big corporations.

Let's face it - everytime a democrat comes in - the LAST thing on their list is poor people, or the inner cities.


The FIRST thing a democrat does is SELL-OUT to the big corporate interests.


Free trade deals, wall street deals - campaign contributions - THAT is what the democrats REALLY want.


"working families," "inner-cities," "bipartisanhsip," "post-racial policies" - it is all a bunch of CRAP


The democrats NEVER intend to do anything about those things - they LIED TO YOU.


The democrats are a bunch of SELL-OUTS.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 4:59 PM | Report abuse

She WILL float! Ya' sure that's the good news? Over at baptist.net, they are a wee bit worried.

Bwahahaha!!!!!!!

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

How Eleanor Holmes Norton (D, DC) deals with lobbyists:

"I'm handling the largest economic development project in the United States now...I was, frankly, uh, uh, surprised to see that we don't have a record, so far as I can tell, of your having given to me despite my uh, long and deep, uh, work. In fact, it's been my major work, uh, on the committee and sub-committee it's been essentially in your sector."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYE3uk-eBwQ&feature=player_embedded#!

Posted by: ScottC3 | September 18, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

"I wonder when rumors of a Democratic effort to get O'Donnell nominated the GOP nominee will start to surface.

I'm guessing as soon as they've accepted she's unelectable and becomes the brunt of every comic's jokes out there.

Posted by: mikefromArlington"

I guess that's the difference between Democrats and Republicans. The GOP embraces their versions of Alvin Greene.

Posted by: DDAWD | September 18, 2010 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Christine O'Donnell says:


"One of my first dates with a witch was on a satanic altar, and I didn't know it. I mean, there's little blood there and stuff like that. ... We went to a movie and then had a midnight picnic on a satanic altar."


__________________________

I know the democrats do not want to attack Christine's religion

AND I know the democrats do not want to attack Christines sexual orientation

SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM ???

,.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 5:10 PM | Report abuse

Those fingers in my hair.

That sly come hither stare

that strips my conscience bare

it's witchcraft.

And I've got no defense for it.

The heat is too intense for it.

What good would commonsense for it do?

'Cause it's witchcraft!

Wicked witchcraft.

And although I know

it'a strictly taboo

when you arouse the need in me

my heart says "yes

indeed" in me

Proceed with what you're lead in 'me to!

It's such an ancient pitch

but one I wouldn't switch

'Cause there's no nicer witch than you!

---------------------
Go, Frank, go. But don't talk arouse!

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 5:10 PM | Report abuse


DDAWD


That was a racist remark against Alvin Greene --


The country needs more people like Alvin Greene in the US Senate - people who understand the working man.


YOU can stop your racist remarks right now.


Go back to the Fix, - annoy them over there.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 5:16 PM | Report abuse

STRF is throwing Miss I-dated-a-witch-but-never-joined-a-coven under the bus.

Bwahahahaha!!!!!

What ever happened to the Virgin Princess? Are the chastity belts part of the altar thingy--and the blood. It's all beginning to make a weird kind of sense now.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 5:17 PM | Report abuse

STR, maybe I should switch parties, I'm pretty sure the Republicans are going to enact the progressive legislation I support. You need to grow up, you're embarrassing yourself here.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 18, 2010 5:20 PM | Report abuse

lms,

I guess I misinterpreted your comments, particularly: "It's definitely a force to be reckoned with on the right and it's important to keep the worst in check by underlining where and when it occurs."

I find the whole Bernie obsession with Weston and "cognitive science" to be silly over-intellectualization. But he uses it as just a current version of an old slander.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 18, 2010 5:26 PM | Report abuse

Christine O'Donnell says:


"One of my first dates with a witch was on a satanic altar, and I didn't know it. I mean, there's little blood there and stuff like that. ... We went to a movie and then had a midnight picnic on a satanic altar."

__________________________________

I have assurances from Christine O'Donnell's campaign that they will be working on a MAJOR OUTREACH for the VAMPIRE VOTE.

That seals the deal for me - I'm sending another contribution right now.

.


Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Miss I-dated-a-witch-but-never-joined-a-coven


__________________________________

I once was abducted by a coven.

BEST night of my life.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 5:45 PM | Report abuse

"It's definitely a force to be reckoned with on the right and it's important to keep the worst in check by underlining where and when it occurs."

This is still true, but the converse is also. Remember the other day when I said you should be the Bernie on your side. I am not into conspiracies or the dumbing down of politics. Right now the issues are just too important. When I see the full force of the right wing machine working against just about everything I personally believe in, it's a little unrealistic to think I would just let it slide.

By the same token I clearly understand that you and others are offended by Obama and the Dems policy prescriptions. IMO, that's where the debate belongs, on the policy, but it's pretty difficult to leave it at that on a blog when everyone's busy demonizing each other and then defending themselves. The other problem is that I haven't seen too many policies put forward even by conservatives running this November. Most of it just seems to be slogans for bumper stickers and the hate fest on Obama.

All I can do is the best I can to bring the important issues up as a topic and then hope for the best. You've got to admit that the TP has put some pretty interesting characters into the mix though, LOL. Sometimes it's difficult to stay on topic.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 18, 2010 5:45 PM | Report abuse

Imsinca speaks of "enacting the progressive legislation "


________________________________________


What ever happened to Obama's promises to work with the other side?


AND Obama's promises to do the heavy lifting to find compromises ???

What ever happened to the BIPARTISANSHIP ??

This is what is wrong with the liberals - COMMITMENTS WERE MADE.

We get it - you have an agenda - we get it - the liberals think they FOOLED the country in 2008.


We get it - 2,000 page bills.


We get it - hundreds of hidden provisions.

We get it.


The country want to throw ALL the democrats OUT.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 5:52 PM | Report abuse

lmsinca 5:45 PM

Says he hasn't seen "too many" policies by the conservatives.


Well - few people saw Obama's "hidden agenda"

__________________________

However, when the deficit is $1.3 TRILLION DOLLARS AND THREATENING TO DESTROY THE NATION.

and when Obama has MASSIVE DEFICIT SPENDING IN HIS HEALTH CARE BILL -

I suppose "FISCAL RESPONSIBLITY" is all a Conservative has to say.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 5:58 PM | Report abuse

Christine O'Donnell says:


"One of my first dates with a witch was on a satanic altar, and I didn't know it. I mean, there's little blood there and stuff like that. ... We went to a movie and then had a midnight picnic on a satanic altar."

______________________________________


Works for me.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 6:03 PM | Report abuse

The cherry on top of the whipped cream on top of the hot fudge sundae:

Christine has to cancel her Sunday appearances because she has to go to church.


Mega-bwahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 6:05 PM | Report abuse

"Christine has to cancel her Sunday appearances because she has to go to church."

Was that seriously her excuse or are you just joking?

Posted by: schrodingerscat | September 18, 2010 6:07 PM | Report abuse

Late to the party.

I hope things get better, family-wise, for you Bernie. You.Will.Be.Missed. Damb. Prayers/good thoughts-kharma for you and yours.

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | September 18, 2010 6:13 PM | Report abuse

@cat,

Hard to believe, but here it is: "On
Saturday morning O’Donnell called us and said: ‘I got triple-booked. I had been invited to go to church and then a picnic."

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2010/09/christine-odonnell-cancels-on-fox-news-sunday-too.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+entertainment%2Ftv%2Ftvguy+%28TV+Guy%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 6:15 PM | Report abuse

One has to love Bill Maher


What is his deal - he has a guest on his show -


And he implies that he has alot of these little gems - but he says he wants Christine to come back on his show.

NOW why would she want to do that?


Is this a form of blackmail ?


Is there some sort of illegal behavior - if you don't do this, I will do that ???

Isn't that blackmail against a federal candidate ???


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 6:32 PM | Report abuse

@12BarBlues: "‘I got triple-booked. I had been invited to go to church and then a picnic."

And so the cocooning begins.

Posted by: schrodingerscat | September 18, 2010 6:43 PM | Report abuse

Anyway -


it is Christine vs. the "Bearded Marxist"

there is nothing wrong with Freedom of Religion.

there is nothing wrong with being a lesbian

So there is no problem, right ?

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 6:47 PM | Report abuse

"So there is no problem, right ?"

Is there no problem lying about your educational background?

Is there no problem paying your mother from campaign funds?

Is there no problem paying personal expenses from political donations?

Is there no problem accepting political donations without a Treasurer - as required by the FEC?

Is there no problem voting for a candidate who espouses "fiscal responsibility" but can't handle her own personal finances?

Posted by: schrodingerscat | September 18, 2010 6:55 PM | Report abuse

@SaveTheRainforest @1 :55 PM

There is someone here whose name is "wiccan" - that is witchcraft.


Actually, STRF, not all Wiccans are witches, and not all witches are Wiccan.

Posted by: wiccan | September 18, 2010 6:59 PM | Report abuse

And so the cocooning begins.
--------------------------------
If Mayer has a grab bag of Christine O'doodles, I would say "and so the beat goes on".

I'll bet Rove knew this, and was trying to get out in front of this before the drip-drip-drip of embarrassing videos and former boy/girlfriends come out of the woodwork, to tell about the "real Christine". When you nominate folks just like the "rest of us", well, you get exactly that, warts and all.

Now, if it wasn't for that OTHER video saying she wouldn't lie to save a Jew's death, she could say she just sort of lied about the witchdate altar picnic.

There are so many dots to connect--picnics too.


Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 7:01 PM | Report abuse

Bernie,

In the short time I've been lurking here I've come to admire and respect your posts. Blessed Be to your and yours, and may the Lord and Lady aid you in every way.

Posted by: wiccan | September 18, 2010 7:02 PM | Report abuse

"You've got to admit that the TP has put some pretty interesting characters into the mix though, LOL. Sometimes it's difficult to stay on topic."

On the contrary, I don't find the TP folks nearly as cracked or out of touch with reality than many, many "mainstream" Dem pols and and Congresscreeps. Pelosi, Waters, Waxman, Kucinich, Grayson, Dean . . . the menagerie of crackpots is extensive. You have a guy who's afraid Guam will capsize. I see nothing about any TP candidates weirder than these people.

But that's just an opinion.

As for being a counterpart to Bernie, no, I wouldn't aspire to that. I don't think he's in the least intellectually honest or interested in truth. He doesn't even believe in it in the first place. I frankly think a lot of you are taken in by him.

But I am here to challenge the liberal propoganda machine!

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 18, 2010 7:21 PM | Report abuse

@12BarBlues: "I'll bet Rove knew this, and was trying to get out in front of this before the drip-drip-drip of embarrassing videos and former boy/girlfriends come out of the woodwork, to tell about the "real Christine".

Agree totally. I think the worse is yet to come.

Posted by: schrodingerscat | September 18, 2010 7:22 PM | Report abuse

wiccan 6:59 PM


OK I won't dispute you.


but close enough, right?

Have you ever had a little "midnight snack" on a satanic altar ?

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 7:29 PM | Report abuse

@wiccan,

Don't sucker for STRF. He is not your friend.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 7:32 PM | Report abuse

On the contrary, I don't find the TP folks nearly as cracked or out of touch with reality than many, many "mainstream" Dem pols and and Congresscreeps. Pelosi, Waters, Waxman, Kucinich, Grayson, Dean . . . the menagerie of crackpots is extensive. You have a guy who's afraid Guam will capsize. I see nothing about any TP candidates weirder than these people.

____________________________________

Exactly - the democrats would be HORRIFIED if they actually had a conversation with some of these people.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 7:32 PM | Report abuse

12Bar

I am her friend


AND you can stop with the hostile comments


WE all know your intention is to turn this blog into infighting -

So take your hostility and leave.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 7:35 PM | Report abuse

The RIGHT defense of Christine-the-witch is not that she isn't as crazy as Nancy Pelosi. It is freedom of religion (kudos to STRF). One benefit to this argument is that it makes the LDS Church look positively mainstream in comparison. Mitt - you're IN.

I can just see all those evangelical Tea Partiers, with their bifocals hanging off the ends of their noses, looking up witchcraft on Wikipedia to see how similar it is to Christianity. Let's see--chapter one says...

Bwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!! It doesn't get much better than this.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 7:54 PM | Report abuse

Let's see.

Carpet posting by 37th (aka StRF). Check

Accusations of racism and offensiveness. Check.

Ah, the comments section of the Plum Line has been officially trolled.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | September 18, 2010 7:56 PM | Report abuse

BB, I think it will be interesting to compare Chris C's handling of the troll with Sargent's handling.

Although no one on here is really complaining. People who don't want to deal with him don't.

Posted by: DDAWD | September 18, 2010 7:59 PM | Report abuse

The scroll wheel is our friend.

Posted by: lmsinca | September 18, 2010 8:09 PM | Report abuse

Fairlington

Go back to the Fix - where you love to harass people.


The Fix crew is coming over here - to bother people.


Are you going to start your fighting here too ?

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 8:12 PM | Report abuse

Total comprehension fail on your part.

Posted by: JennOfArk | September 18, 2010 1:21 PM
-----

Not exactly. The progressive vote is in the bank. Always has been. You have the majority because people like Howard Dean and Rahm Emanuel were sharp enough to field competitive candidates in areas that are not necessarily as "progressive" as you. Even Liam understands this. And they can go out just as quickly as they came in, because voters---especially ones like me---are not ALL in the bank. Thanks for the opportunity to educate you.

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 8:12 PM | Report abuse

Fairlington


YOU and 12Bar and ddawd are not trolls ?


Who are you trying to kid ??


Seriously, run along children - no one wants you to start your hositility and fighting in this blog.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 8:15 PM | Report abuse

STRF is like that song on your iPod you immediately skip when you have it on shuffle.

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 18, 2010 8:19 PM | Report abuse

So, apparently this Brigade Troll wants to convince us that he does not vote for Republicans, and is not supporting their nominees in the up coming elections.


Posted by: Liam-still | September 18, 2010 1:16 PM
-----

Another example of the fantasies that spring from the fevered dreams of Liam-still. I'd love to see the quote where I said I don't vote for Republicans or would not support their nominees in the upcoming elections. I said I AM NOT A REPUBLICAN. Write that down three times. I NEVER said I don't vote for Republicans, but I don't ALWAYS vote for Republicans. Was Bill Clinton a Republican? I voted for him once. I realize you probably think Bush41 and Bob Dole were just knuckle-dragging fascists, but don't I get ANY credit?

Thanks for the additional name-calling. What exactly is your definition of a troll? Tell me, so I'll understand how I happen to be one if you aren't one. Am I also a buford?

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 8:22 PM | Report abuse

12Bar and all.

Hilarious stuff on the Virgin Princess.

Can't believe she canceled on Fox for tomorrow. Karl definitely was just skimming the surface.

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 18, 2010 8:24 PM | Report abuse

Although no one on here is really complaining. People who don't want to deal with him don't.

Posted by: DDAWD | September 18, 2010 7:59 PM
------------------------------
It's still early days. So far, I have seen, and in this order,

a) ignoring,
b) imploring,
c) ridicule,
d) insults and
e) pleading to Greg Sargent to change the software to make him easier to skip.

Sound familiar?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 8:24 PM | Report abuse

Can't believe she canceled on Fox for tomorrow. Karl definitely was just skimming the surface.
--------------------------------
Remember all, Karl Rove IS on Fox tomorrow. Hang onto your shorts.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 8:26 PM | Report abuse

Remember; that which is made easier to pass, can just as easily be reversed, in the same manner.

There will be another Republican President with a Republican majority, so I would not like to make it easy for them to reverse what has just recently been hard won.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 18, 2010 1:52 PM
----

Well said. See. Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then.

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 8:27 PM | Report abuse

"Although no one on here is really complaining. People who don't want to deal with him don't."

STRF is like the crazy uncle at Thanksgiving dinner. We've just learned to ignore the outbursts and ask someone to "pass the peas".

Posted by: schrodingerscat | September 18, 2010 8:27 PM | Report abuse

Brigade

Many of these liberals have long ago realized that they are unable to defend their liberal postions.

They changed their name to progressive


And now they changed their logo


But they are still WRONG.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 8:28 PM | Report abuse

I can see two people from the Fix - 12Bar and Dddawd -


Both carrying over their hostile attitudes - and looking to fight on this blog.


Take it ELSEWHERE

Thank you.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 8:31 PM | Report abuse

Bernie,
Good Luck and Godspeed w/ your family duties. Best hopes for a positive resolution and your return.
Sincerely,
tao

Posted by: tao9 | September 18, 2010 1:59 PM
-------

Ditto.

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 8:31 PM | Report abuse

12Bar


Why don't you start to back her up ?

Christine O'Donnell says:


"One of my first dates with a witch was on a satanic altar, and I didn't know it. I mean, there's little blood there and stuff like that. ... We went to a movie and then had a midnight picnic on a satanic altar."

____________________________

Play nice now


I can see you are not trying to recruit your friends to come over here and cause trouble.


Not a good idea.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 8:32 PM | Report abuse

There's also Fairlington Blade and leichtman. And I can put the word out and get more....you wouldn't want mariewilson to show up, would you?

Hoooooga booooga. Watch out--George sent us to get you.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 8:33 PM | Report abuse

Something on the email circuit. Our president has never lied to us right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv4jnlkxOaw

Now Barack's father served in WW II
It must be true as Barack said it in a speech!
Is he a compulsive liar?
Were there no reporters who double checked these statements and called the party on this?

They did for everyone else.
Why not him?


Barack Hussein Obama Sr. (Obama's father)
Born 4/4/36
Died 11/24/82 at the age of 46
He was 5 years old when WW II started, and less than 9..5 years old when it ended.

Lolo Soetoro (Obama's stepfather)
Born 1935
Died 3/2/87 at the age of 52
He was 6 years old when WW II started, and 10 years old when it ended.


One of these guys must have been the youngest Veteran in the war.

Posted by: actuator | September 18, 2010 8:45 PM | Report abuse

"But they are still WRONG."

Kind of like the time you said the presidential oath of office included the phrase "I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic"?

Or like your claim that Sanders was listed as a "socialist" on election ballots and as a member of the house?

Posted by: schrodingerscat | September 18, 2010 8:45 PM | Report abuse

Somehow, this Brigade clown, turned that act of cowardice, on the part of Sharron Obtuse Angle into claiming that Harry Reid has "a yellow streak".

Notice this this Brigade clown does not call all those Republican nominees who will appear only on Fox, "yellow".

Posted by: Liam-still | September 18, 2010 2:06 PM
-----

"Well, there you go again." --- Ronald Reagan

I seem to recall that the subject was O'Donnell backing out of an appearance with Bob Schieffer. If it was Angle, then I stand corrected. But as you know, many Democrats won't agree to interviews on Fox. Yet you condemn Republicans for being equally taciturn. Does that make you a troll? Were debates even the issue?

Sorry if "yellow streak" was too strong a term for your delicate sensibilities. I should have remembered that you never resort to name-calling or berating those with whom you disagree. "Brigade clown."
"Act of cowardice." Hmmmm.

Were you smiling as you typed that?

Republican nominees who will appear only on Fox are yellow, yellow, yellow!!! There. Can we be friends now? It's tough being the only conservative on here before STRF shows up.

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 8:48 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues 8:33 PM


You are just trying to stir up trouble


Why is that?


You claim you just want civil discussion


So go back to the Fix - and have your civil discusssion.

Leave everyone else alone - don't stir up trouble.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 8:49 PM | Report abuse

"I've taken exactly one round of antibiotics in the past 20 years."
----

How long were you on them before it cleared up? I've heard that stuff can be awfully nasty.

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 8:51 PM | Report abuse

actuator | September 18, 2010 8:45 PM


Did Obama say Grandfather ?

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 8:54 PM | Report abuse

schrodingerscat 8:45 PM


Your little wikipedia article skips over the truth


LOOK it up for yourself - in the 1990s Bernie Sanders ran for the House as a Socialist -


AND Bernie Sanders asked the House to identify him as a Socialist.


There was an "S" next to his name in official House documents - where the "D" and "R" goes


I like Bernie Sanders - Im not saying anything against him.


This is a fact.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 8:57 PM | Report abuse

Not long ago, Frank Rich mentioned a book in his Times column: Invisible Hands by NYU Professor Kim Phillips-Fein. I have just finished the book and I can say without hesitation that this is the most important book I have ever read for understanding the nature of modern American politics and the rise of the Conservative Movement. PLEASE read this book.

Posted by: wbgonne | September 18, 2010 3:45 PM
----

Just give us the punch line.

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 8:59 PM | Report abuse

The media is a joke - they want the conservative on so they can ask attack questions - and have a chance to mock the candidates.


The liberal candidates do NOT get the same treatment - softball questions - and fawning is the norm.


Take a look at the journo-list COVERAGE of Obama - that was CRIMINAL.


Perhaps when there is equal TREATMENT - there will be a different story.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 8:59 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues wrote,
"O'Donnell's staff today canceled her scheduled appearances on Fox News Sunday and Face the Nation tomorrow."
-----

Well, there goes another of Liam's wild theories down the toilet. I thought Chris Wallace was supposed to be a cakewalk for Republican nuts?

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 9:04 PM | Report abuse

Isn't there some room in there for people to simply be conservative or liberal because they genuinely believe in those principles? Shouldn't the debate center around policy that adheres to those principles?

Posted by: lmsinca | September 18, 2010 4:13 PM
----

Well, not according to Liam.

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 9:07 PM | Report abuse

"I thought Chris Wallace was supposed to be a cakewalk for Republican nuts?"

That sounds delicious.

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 18, 2010 9:08 PM | Report abuse

Like I said, O'Donnell will just continue to build onto the meme this new breed of teaparty candidates aren't fit to be in the Senate.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 18, 2010 4:43 PM
-----

How does she stack up compared to Alvin "You Ought to Be with Me" Greene?

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 9:11 PM | Report abuse

"AND Bernie Sanders asked the House to identify him as a Socialist.


There was an "S" next to his name in official House documents - where the "D" and "R" goes"

No, you're wrong. Straight from the house clerk's office:

http://bioguide.congress.gov/biosearch/biosearch1.asp

"LOOK it up for yourself - in the 1990s Bernie Sanders ran for the House as a Socialist -"

Seriously, you're WRONG....or a LIAR....pick your poison.

"The Socialist Party has petitioned onto the Vermont ballot this year. It is the first time since 1952 that the Socialist Party has appeared on the Vermont ballot.....

Although many people commonly refer to Vermont’s U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders as a socialist, his ballot label, in all the years in which he was elected, has been “independent.”"

http://www.ballot-access.org/2010/08/21/socialist-party-on-ballot-in-vermont-for-first-time-since-1952/

Posted by: schrodingerscat | September 18, 2010 9:14 PM | Report abuse

"I thought Chris Wallace was supposed to be a cakewalk for Republican nuts?"

Apparently even HE can't dumb it down enough for her.

Posted by: schrodingerscat | September 18, 2010 9:17 PM | Report abuse

Let's see.

Carpet posting by 37th (aka StRF). Check

Accusations of racism and offensiveness. Check.

Ah, the comments section of the Plum Line has been officially trolled.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | September 18, 2010 7:56 PM
----

Nice to see you here. DDAWD, too.

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 9:19 PM | Report abuse

Brigade, no one is denying Alvin Greene's unpreparedness or goofiness. You don't see us raising money for him or defending him in any way.

How much money did he raise the day after he won the primary? 8 dollars?

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 18, 2010 9:23 PM | Report abuse

There's also Fairlington Blade and leichtman. And I can put the word out and get more....you wouldn't want mariewilson to show up, would you?

Hoooooga booooga. Watch out--George sent us to get you.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | September 18, 2010 8:33 PM
----

I kinda miss Noacoler aka Chris Fox, Moonbat aka Zouk, and Drindl. Does anyone on this blog own any property in Vietnam?

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 9:26 PM | Report abuse

schrodingerscat 9:14 PM


Look it up yourself

Bernie Sanders called himself a Socialist


YOU - can stop the name-calling - because there are a few choice ones which belong to you.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 9:28 PM | Report abuse

My uncle has PTSD from Vietnam, but that's probably not what you mean.

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 18, 2010 9:29 PM | Report abuse

One of these guys must have been the youngest Veteran in the war.

Posted by: actuator | September 18, 2010 8:45 PM
----

You just have to understand liberal logic. One of the posters at the Fix tried to sell Mike Dukakis as a veteran of the Korean War. When I pointed out that ole Mikey wasn't in Korea until a couple of years after the war ended, I was told that the war never ended---all we have is a cease fire---so anyone who's been stationed in Korea within the last 60 years is technically a veteran of the Korean War. Who'd have thunk?

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 9:33 PM | Report abuse

Brigade

12Bar is organizing all the nuts to come over here.


Oh yea - here we go again...


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 9:35 PM | Report abuse

"Look it up yourself

Bernie Sanders called himself a Socialist"

Stop moving the goalposts. You claimed TWO things: he was listed as a "socialist" on the ballot when he ran; and 2) he was listed as a "socialist" by the house when he was a member.

I've now proven that both of those things are not true. Why can't you just admit that you're wrong?

If you can't, then I have to conclude that you're willfully spreading falsehoods - which means that you're LYING.


Posted by: schrodingerscat | September 18, 2010 9:36 PM | Report abuse

Schroeder


http://www.democracynow.org/2006/11/8/vermonts_bernie_sanders_becomes_first_socialist


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 9:37 PM | Report abuse


My uncle has PTSD from Vietnam, but that's probably not what you mean.

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 18, 2010 9:29 PM
----

One of my old foils over at the Fix was having a home built in Vietnam and planned on retiring there---if Charlie doesn't get him.

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 9:41 PM | Report abuse


Brigade

12Bar is organizing all the nuts to come over here.
Oh yea - here we go again...

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 9:35 PM
-----

The more the merrier.

Posted by: Brigade | September 18, 2010 9:45 PM | Report abuse

Bernie Sanders is a member of the U.S. Senate as a member of the socialist Liberty Union Party.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 9:45 PM | Report abuse

Good grief, STRF...just put your big girl/boy undies on and own up.

Your link doesn't prove that he appeared on the ballot "in the 90s" as a socialist or that the house listed him as a socialist. In fact, the link's about his run as a SENATOR which has absolutely nothing to do with your original claims. Now you really are just embarrassing yourself.

Posted by: schrodingerscat | September 18, 2010 9:47 PM | Report abuse

"Bernie Sanders is a member of the U.S. Senate as a member of the socialist Liberty Union Party."

Ummm....no. Not officially.

From the official Senate website:

"Sanders, Bernard - (I - VT)"

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

(And once again, I'll remind you that your original claims were about him as a house member, not a Senator).


Posted by: schrodingerscat | September 18, 2010 9:52 PM | Report abuse

schrodingerscat 9:14 PM


I really don't care what you say

Bernie Sanders calls himself a socialist, he always campaigned that way - and he got himself elected that way.


It's a fact - that is what he did up there in Vermont


We don't need your hostility.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 9:55 PM | Report abuse

Why is being a socialist bad?

Posted by: BGinCHI | September 18, 2010 9:56 PM | Report abuse


Schoedinger Cat:

The New York Times says:


Sanders became only the third Socialist elected to the House. His views haven’t changed much since his first election.


http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/bernard_sanders/index.html


_______________________________

Please call the Board of the New York Times and call them liars.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 10:00 PM | Report abuse

schrodingerscat 9:14 PM


Are you trying to say that Bernie Sanders is NOT a socialist?


He calls himself a socialist - I have heard him say it many times in interviews.

There really is no dispute about the views of Bernie Sanders


I am not sure what your point is


Please call his office and talk them if you don't believe it.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 10:05 PM | Report abuse

"Bernie Sanders calls himself a socialist, he always campaigned that way - and he got himself elected that way."

Too bad that's not what you claimed. Again - you claimed specifically that he was listed on the ballot as "socialist" and that the house directory listed him as "socialist".

You can be as defensive as you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you seem to have a problem admitting that you're wrong. I'm not surprised - it appears to be a feature with most wingnuts.

@BG: nothing wrong with being a socialist. I love Sanders. He rocks. I wish we had 50 more like him. STRF just kept claiming yesterday that he was listed as "Sanders, (S-VT)" and I knew for a fact that he was always classified as an Independent while he was in the house (and as he is now in the Senate). I just can't stand it when people perpetuate falsehoods as FACTS.

Posted by: schrodingerscat | September 18, 2010 10:06 PM | Report abuse

Soooooooo, not to change the subject or anything, but digby has a good post up about that speech Obama gave the other night at the fundraiser, where he jokingly teased the base about our impatience. I really think he's the one who doesn't quite get it, and no STR, it doesn't mean I'm going to "TURN" republican, they're even further behind the curve on this recession. Actually, they're still sitting in the parking lot tailgating, while the game is being played out.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It's not that rank and file Democrats are congenitally unable to celebrate all the wonderful accomplishments of the Obama administration. It's that, like Americans everywhere, they are hurting financially and don't have good feelings about the future. The Republicans are fired up and believe that they can take action to change it by voting for teabaggers. But Dems are stuck in a holding pattern waiting for things to hopefully turn around. They have nowhere to focus their angst so they tune out. In those comments, the president is, at best, ignoring their real issue and saying they don't know how good they have it. It's not helpful."

Susie Madrak hits the nail on the head about what's depressing Democratic turnout:

"[T]hose of us left living on a wing and prayer thanks to your “half full”, half-assed economic policies just don’t have a sense of humor about our continuing plight. I know it’s been a long time since your mom got food stamps, but you might want to give that empathy thing some thought."

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2010/09/base-politics.html

Posted by: lmsinca | September 18, 2010 10:07 PM | Report abuse

schrodingerscat 9:36 PM

You are wrong on all accounts


Bernie Sanders ran as a socialist - identified as such by the media - no dispute


And the House also identified him that way, by his own request.

What is YOUR point? Are you saying he is NOT a socialist? Because you are making no point if you believe he is.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 10:35 PM | Report abuse

Pointillist/SocialistVoodooPrinces(I) for Donnelly 2010

9.22.10, 11:09 p.m., Meet-Up @ Equinox Mt Summit, Manchester VT

Posted by: tao9 | September 18, 2010 10:40 PM | Report abuse


Schoeder's Cat


YOU have no idea what you are talking about


You are making a fight over nothing - a fact that no one disputes.


What is your point ?


________________________________

LOOK it up for yourself - in the 1990s Bernie Sanders ran for the House as a Socialist -


AND Bernie Sanders asked the House to identify him as a Socialist.


There was an "S" next to his name in official House documents - where the "D" and "R" goes

I like Bernie Sanders - Im not saying anything against him.


This is a fact.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 10:41 PM | Report abuse

SchodingersCat


You have no point


This whole discussion started with you trying to identify individuals on a political spectrum


Sanders is a socialist - he has always identified himself as such.


He is not a right winger - he is not an Independent in the middle of the two parties.


He is an Independent to the left of the democrats - a socialist.

Your unnecessary name-calling and ninny nit-picking is NOT civil discussion.


Sanders RAN his campaigns as a Socialist - so what does the other stuff matter


He was listed on the House directory with an "S"


AND who cares ?


I'm not mis-identifying him on the political spectrum


AND more importantly Sanders DIDN'T LIE TO THE PEOPLE ABOUT HIS VIEWS - LIKE OBAMA DID IN 2008.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 10:50 PM | Report abuse

schrodingerscat 8:45 PM


You are arguing with no point -


The original issue was where Sanders was on the political spectrum

HOWEVER - this brings up a related issue: SANDERS never lied about his views - everyone KNEW


This is in SHARP contrast to your pal Obama - who lied his way through 2008 - telling everyone he believed in bipartisanship - and bringing everyone together.


Obama committed himself to bipartisanship - meaning compromise and CENTRIST views


The country NEVER voted for a sharp turn to the left.


That is the CENTRAL LIE OF OBAMA.

So, let's bring this back to something important: the democrats have been LYING to America.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 11:03 PM | Report abuse

In the same vein as my earlier post and link to Digby here's a guy who's speaking our about the poverty numbers and what they really mean. I'll have to look at his numbers and see if he needs to be in on our money bomb. He's probably in a safe district so we'll see.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"We talk to many people on Capitol Hill who do believe poverty is important and is a blight on our nation," said Weinstein, executive director of the Coalition on Human Needs, an alliance of national organizations that advocates for the poor. "But we are also up against a general recognition that poor people don't vote in great numbers. And they certainly aren't going to be making campaign contributions. That definitely puts them behind many other people and interests when decisions are being made around here."

Rep. Jim McDermott (D-Wash.), who counts among his legislative accomplishments bills to extend unemployment insurance and to provide housing for people suffering from AIDS, said that the current downturn has expanded the definition of the poor. No longer are the poor the chronically impoverished who scrape along at the bottom of the economic pecking order in good times and bad. They now include many working people who have been thrown out of their jobs by a brutal recession."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/17/AR2010091707346.html

Posted by: lmsinca | September 18, 2010 11:19 PM | Report abuse

SchodingerCat

I'm still waiting to hear what your point is.

The original point was that Bernie Sanders is a socialist.


You keep on saying he is Indpendent - but what are you trying to say by that?

Are you trying to say that he is NOT a socialist? I am waiting for you to say that.


The MAIN POINT is that NO ONE ever accused Sanders of deception about his views. Bernie Sanders was always honest about his views - and the newspapers always identified his views properly.


IN SHARP CONTRAST, Obama practiced a DECEPTION - going to great lengths to make people believe he was a CENTRIST - or views very close to Hillary.


NEVER did Obama in 2008 hint that he had a FAR LEFT agenda.


Yes, this was a FRAUD - and the American People have a RIGHT to be angry about it.


The American People have a RIGHT to make their views known about this.

I am sure that your response to ANYONE that does not agree with Obama is - "OH, MY YOU MUST HAVE ANOTHER MOTIVE"


"OH MY, YOU MUST BE A RACIST"


Is that your response to the FRAUD OF OBAMA?


Is that your response to the DECEPTIONS AND LIES OF OBAMA???


It really does NOT help your case.


AND the NAACP has destroyed itself with its position.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 11:20 PM | Report abuse

This one is a gem:


I understand that O'Donnell plans to use witchcraft to balance the Federal budget. I support the effort. She needs "eye of Newt" for the potion.

__________________________

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 18, 2010 11:31 PM | Report abuse

SchoedingerCat


Still don't have a point from you.


A rational point -


not one based solely on the desire to attack someone else.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 19, 2010 12:31 AM | Report abuse

"How long were you on them before it cleared up? I've heard that stuff can be awfully nasty."

I wouldn't know; why don't you ask your mom?

My round was for a suspected tooth infection that didn't turn out to be infected but just an inflamed nerve.

Posted by: JennOfArk | September 19, 2010 1:28 AM | Report abuse

I have posted this already here before You guys should stop complaining because, one the health care we have now isnt as good as it was supposed to be. also the law has just been signed so give it some time. so if u want to say u have the right to choose tell that to ur congress men or state official. If you do not have insurance and need one You can find full medical coverage at the lowest price by calling 877-882-4740 or check http://bit.ly/9fDY7U If you have health insurance and do not care about cost just be happy about it and believe me you are not going to loose anything!

Posted by: clarablan19 | September 19, 2010 2:41 AM | Report abuse

"I just can't stand it when people perpetuate falsehoods as FACTS."

LOL you had better roll your sleeves up and get moving then. You have many liberal pals here who peddle myth after urban legend after flat-out lie on a continual basis. But strangely I never see you turn your supposed fact-checking zeal on them.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 19, 2010 7:18 AM | Report abuse

"The more the merrier."

I don't know whether they are "nuts," but 12bb and certainly hasn't raised the collective IQ or quality of the lefties here, as improbable as it seems to see myself say that. Hard to believe this place could be dumbed down from where it was, but it looks like that's what the new lefties are bringing over. I had never heard of the Fix before, but it must have been quite a funhouse.

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 19, 2010 7:53 AM | Report abuse

"Why is being a socialist bad?"

That could be a good question for some of the lefties here like ru, since they seem to think it is bad.

Are you endorsing socialism and Bernie Sanders?

Posted by: quarterback1 | September 19, 2010 7:57 AM | Report abuse

"Still don't have a point from you.


A rational point -


not one based solely on the desire to attack someone else."

-------------------------------------

And I'm still waiting for you to admit that you were WRONG. Although it's interesting to me that you see someone correcting your falsehoods as an "attack". You must've had a rough time getting through school.

Now, stop trying to change the subject. This has nothing to do with Obama, this has nothing to do with where Sanders is on the political spectrum, this has nothing to do with what the NY Times said, this has nothing to do with your defense mechanisms.....this has to do with the fact that you specifically claimed TWO things (and I'll type slower for you so maybe you can keep up):

1)Sanders appeared on the ballot in VT as a "Socialist"

2)Sanders was listed and identified officially in the House of Representatives as "Socialist" - as you said an "S" after his name instead of a "D" or "R".

I've now provided two links that definitively prove that those things are not true: one showing that no one has appeared on a VT ballot as "Socialist" in over 50 yrs and that Sanders was always listed as an "Independent" when he ran; the second was a link to the US House of Representatives Clerk Office showing that Sanders is listed in the official record as "Sanders, Bernard - (I-VT)".

So, are you going to admit that you were wrong on the FACTS or are you going to accept being classified as a "LIAR"?

(and BTW, while you're at it, don't forget to also admit that you were wrong about the Presidential Oath of Office)

Posted by: schrodingerscat | September 19, 2010 9:14 AM | Report abuse

schrodingerscat - I wouldn't expect much. I mean, this is a guy who is OFFENDED by the English language and simple logic. I seriously doubt you're going to get a rational response from someone who is OFFENDED by having it pointed out to him the difference between "fact" and "faith".

Posted by: JennOfArk | September 19, 2010 9:29 AM | Report abuse

All, here's a Sunday Open Thread for you:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/09/sunday_open_thread_6.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | September 19, 2010 9:32 AM | Report abuse

"I can see you are not trying to recruit your friends to come over here and cause trouble"
weren't you the one lecturing us about the first amendment and calling anyone who disagrees with you trouble, is shameless.

By the way Bill Maher is a comedian not a politican who is an actual friend of Ann Coulter, even though they agreed on absolutely nothing.

And this a.m. General Powell just endorsed the Dream Act which has been constantly been attacked by the GOP as unAmerican.
Its amazing that the GOP try as they might has YET to drive reasonable voices like his from their party.

Posted by: leichtman1 | September 19, 2010 10:22 AM | Report abuse

SchoedingerCat

Are you saying that Bernie Sanders never identified himself as a Socialist as a member of the House?


Im sorry - you have no point


go find a point and get back to us

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 19, 2010 12:35 PM | Report abuse

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