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The mosque exclusion zone, quantified

Adam Serwer of the American Prospect is guest blogging on The Plum Line this week.

The New York Times has a new poll out on the Park51 project showing that only a third of New Yorkers want the project to be built, and those who want it to be moved feel far more strongly than those who don't.

But the Times did something interesting, which is that it quantified the extent of the area Matt Yglesias coined the "mosque exclusion zone." Seven percent of those who oppose the project think the exclusion zone should be five blocks, 18 percent think it should be between ten and 20 blocks, and 20 percent think it should be more than 20 blocks. Nine percent said it couldn't be far away enough, which I'm guessing means -- as one of my twitter followers suggested -- that they think the Mosque Exclusion Zone should look something like this.

The frustrating part about this is that, as I understood it, the mosque exclusion zone was initially meant as a joke emphasizing the absurdity of arbitrarily banning a religious group from a particular space based on "sensitivity." Yet people answering the question about how far away the mosque should be don't seem to recognize the absurdity. This is why we don't put fundamental rights up to a show of hands. In line with what I wrote earlier this week about how Americans from groups once subject to religious persecution quickly tend to forget what that's like, the Times writes that most Jews and Catholics oppose the Park51 project.

The poll also finds that 33 percent of New Yorkers think Muslims are more sympathetic than other Americans towards terrorism. Only 21 percent of New Yorkers admitted feeling hostility towards Muslims because of the attack on the World Trade Center. But a much better way to gauge these types of feelings is by asking whether or not you know someone who has such feelings. Nearly two thirds of New Yorkers, or 59 percent, said they did.

Those opposed to the project might find comfort in the idea that most New Yorkers agree with them, but the poll also decisively confirms that anti-Muslim sentiment is playing a significant role in the opposition. It's not making much of a dent in Mayor Michael Bloomberg's or President Obama's approval ratings, though. More New Yorkers approve of the way they've handled the matter than don't.

By Adam Serwer  |  September 3, 2010; 8:39 AM ET
 
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Comments

I'm fine with 20 blocks away, and then if the Empire State Building is attacked by Islamic terrorists, no where on Manhattan at all. Next question?

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 3, 2010 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Hey Adam,

Now that this conversation about the community center has become a complete circus that the GOP plans to cash in on, do you know of any foreseeable way for this conversation to go back to one of reason or is it way beyond that?

I turned on the grandy and andy morning show, which used to be a fairly tame conservative morning radio show and their entire show was dedicated to freaking people out about having to subdue to Sharia law. It's completely insane. The GOP have gone into full make the public panic mode.

Here's the problem I see. If you encourage the mosque people to move to another site, people like Pamella Gellar who associates with nazi sympathizers and people who associate with skinhead groups around the globe think they are right and "win" and her type of hate wins. She's one of the most disgusting and vile human beings on this planet and doesn't deserve to have her hateful views given any sort of justice. Also, the right wing smear merchants on radio and on Fox "win."

The conversation has become so poisoned by unreasonable humans I don't see any fair conclusion to where all parties get something out of this.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 3, 2010 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Gosh, I cant imagine why New Yorkers would be salty at muslims. What did they ever do them?

Posted by: SharpshootingPugilist | September 3, 2010 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Imsinca:

Thank you in advance for not "ignoring" me ;
)

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 3, 2010 10:04 AM | Report abuse

Obviously, the exclusion zone really must be some metric built on 9 and 11. For example, 9.11 kilometers (far enough for most and tips our hat to the white European culture's numbering system. Or, to satisfy the most outraged, 9 to the 11th power parsecs distant.

Posted by: bernielatham | September 3, 2010 10:08 AM | Report abuse

For those who haven't witnessed the brilliance of Jan Brewer, here's your opportunity... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2010/09/02/VI2010090205513.html?hpid=artslot

Not for the faint of heart/mind.

Posted by: bernielatham | September 3, 2010 10:10 AM | Report abuse

I hope that Caroline Hunt (from the NYT article) does not get attacked by Islamic terrorists now. I would have given the same answers to this poll, but I wonder if they asked "Do you believe that the federal government has the Constitutional power to stop Cordoba House from being built?"

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 3, 2010 10:13 AM | Report abuse

bernielatham:

You do realize that this thread is about the "Ground Zero" mosque and a poll of NEW YORKERS, right?

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 3, 2010 10:16 AM | Report abuse

This just in:

A headless body, recently discovered in Arizona, has now been identified.

It is Governor Jan Brewer(R)

Posted by: Liam-still | September 3, 2010 10:18 AM | Report abuse

LOL

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 3, 2010 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Murdoch's power and influence in England, chapter 37.

The Guardian today continues reporting on the story of Murdoch's News of the World reporters hacking into cell phones and links to this piece in the NYTimes which I hadn't known about...

“There was simply no enthusiasm among Scotland Yard to go beyond the cases involving Mulcaire and Goodman,” said John Whittingdale, the chairman of a parliamentary committee that has twice investigated the phone hacking. “To start exposing widespread tawdry practices in that newsroom was a heavy stone that they didn’t want to try to lift.” Several investigators said in interviews that Scotland Yard was reluctant to conduct a wider inquiry in part because of its close relationship with News of the World."
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/05/magazine/05hacking-t.html

Guardian piece here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/sep/02/phone-hacking-police-inquiry

Posted by: bernielatham | September 3, 2010 10:24 AM | Report abuse

The inmates are loose at the asylum.

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 3, 2010 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Sticking with the non-mosque, I believe it's Ethan who has been particularly annoyed at how the story seems to have taken over other, equally important issues. I thought of him when I saw this Luckovich cartoon, but I think he's on vacation, so I hope the rest of you enjoy it.

http://blogs.ajc.com/mike-luckovich/2010/08/23/824-cartoon-mike-luckovich-on-global-warming/

Posted by: carolanne528 | September 3, 2010 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Hi Jake - Actually, yes, I did realize the thread subject. Having been contributing here since the first day or two of the blog's inception, I have a vague sense of the protocols in place. But thanks for the heads-up.

Posted by: bernielatham | September 3, 2010 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Does ANYONE want to actually debate the Mosque Exclusion Zone?

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 3, 2010 10:32 AM | Report abuse

bernielatham:

You're welcome.

Anyone else?

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 3, 2010 10:34 AM | Report abuse

What is going on with Quitter Palin?

First she bragged about the size of Gov. Jan Brewer's Testicles;

Now she tells Sean Hannity that journalists who report unflattering things about her personality, are "limp and impotent".

She is starting to come across as someone who is projecting what is lacking in her own life.

Has "The First Dude" been neutered?

Posted by: Liam-still | September 3, 2010 10:36 AM | Report abuse

@Liam - the conservative movement has the dilemma of a culture which regards the female as inferior or junior yet which needs (for presumed PR of demographic reasons) to portray something else (just as they put some blacks and Latinos up front in PR efforts but rarely in any substantive way).

If you look at the female figures central to conservative culture - Coulter, Malkin, Thatcher, etc etc, they all put on a show of holding manly characteristics - loud, angry, hard, uncharitable, etc.

Palin has to follow this model. She can't merely be a dim sex-pot.

Posted by: bernielatham | September 3, 2010 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Jake, the whole discussion is dumb. Some say yet, others say no. The lines have been drawn. Nothing to discuss nor are there minds to be swayed.

The only thing that turns down the volume on a discussion like this is ending discussion. It's a local matter. Should have remained a local matter. Once national propaganda outlets get a hold of any story the public mind as well just let the brain dead talking heads have their fun.

It's turned into a partisan issue now and people are trying to find new ways to use antipathy to their political benefit.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | September 3, 2010 10:57 AM | Report abuse

I'm just glad we have leaders who recognize the difference between moral leadership and stirring up a mob mentality, which Republicans are so good at doing.

It's equivilant to the difference between the sheriff and the leader of the angry mob during a lynching attemp. Just because it's popular at the moment does not make it right or legal.

Posted by: Beeliever | September 3, 2010 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Liam,
Palin does seem obsessed with belittling men's sex organs.

No doubt the "First Dude" has had these type of emasculating comments aimed at him many times during her angry fits.

Posted by: Beeliever | September 3, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

What the hell is the matter with modern journalists? They do not even pretend to try and stick to the facts of a story anymore. Take the title of this thread, for example.

It is designed to stir up traffic, and nothing more, because no Mosque has even been proposed for the site. If course calling it by it's real name, A Muslim Cultural Center, which would contain a prayer room, would not incite the rabble and draw many site hits, so of course the hot button word; "Mosque" must be used in the headline.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 3, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

@Beeliever - Come on. There's no way of knowing any such thing and you come off sounding juvenile in making the slander.

There are very interesting aspects to the role or position of the female in both the more traditional conservative universe and particularly in this modern USA version which are worth thinking about and talking about.

For example, the campaign against including women in the military (the opposition to gays in the military - aside from the cultural right's demonizing - surely comes from some thinking that gays just aren't "manly" enough). If you look at the women I mentioned above, they are clearly taking on some key elements of the "warrior" figure in order to be acceptable to the rightwing mindset. Take Liz Cheney. Take the combination, which one can see as necessary when conceptualizing in the manner I suggest, of "mama" and "grizzly". Mother alone doesn't cut it.

Posted by: bernielatham | September 3, 2010 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Liam,
Palin does seem obsessed with belittling men's sex organs.

No doubt the "First Dude" has had these type of emasculating comments aimed at him many times during her angry fits.

Posted by: Beeliever | September 3, 2010 11:16 AM
.......................

The Evolution Of The Republican Party.

From Lincoln To Palin.

From The Great Emancipator, To The Great Emasculator.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 3, 2010 11:31 AM | Report abuse

mikefromArlington:

I (obviously) do not think that this is a dumb discussion and BOTH sides could learn something. For instance, your side needs to learn the definition of a MOSQUE (any Muslim prayer / worship space). On my side, I don't know how many are really asserting that the governement should violate (amend?) the First Amendment. Would those people feel the same way if it were their house of worship being targeted? Teaching moments abound in these issues. And, as I've noted many times, the only stupid question is the one not asked.

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 3, 2010 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Bernie,

It is not just in The Republican Party, It is something that even Hillary Clinton felt she had to project.

She had to come across as having more testosterone than the male candidates

That is what all that landing at the airport, under fire, and the shot drinking, and hunting with guns, was all about, during her primary campaign.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 3, 2010 11:39 AM | Report abuse

A Mosque issues public calls to prayer, either, by having a Muezzin call out from a minaret, or by loud speaker.

The proposed Muslim Center will have neither, and therefore does not meet the definition of A Mosque.

It would be like calling An Irish Cultural Center, where Mass is sometimes said, and The Rosary is said daily, A Catholic Church.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 3, 2010 11:52 AM | Report abuse

For the record, a mosque (Arabic: مساجد‎) literally means a place of prostration and does not necessarily have a dome, minaret or even a loud speaker. The word "mosque" in English refers to all types of buildings dedicated for Islamic worship, although I will grant you that there is a distinction in Arabic between the smaller "masjids" dedicated for daily five prayers and the larger "masajid" where the daily five prayers and the Friday congregation sermons are held, which is attended by more people and play more roles such as teaching Qur'an. All plans that I have seen call for Cordoba House to include the Friday congregation sermons.

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 3, 2010 12:07 PM | Report abuse

The earliest Christian "churches" were back rooms and catacombs.

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 3, 2010 12:15 PM | Report abuse

I live in NYC. Where does this end? No synagogues near pork stores, no Catholic churches near elementary schools or day care centers. You know the old saw “someone might be offended” or “something might happen”.

The 80 odd innocent Muslims who perished on 9/11, The Muslim NYPD Cadet who ran to the scene and perished or the Muslim Doctors, Nurses, and EMT workers, who volunteered their services, hey pay no mind.
The fact that the cultural center which akin to a YMCA with a auditorium, pool and sports facilities (Residents of Lower Manhattan and Community Board 1 have been advocating for a recreational, Y like facility for several years as the area has evolved from just the Financial District that shuts down at dusk to a 24/7 residential neighborhood) is blocks from “Ground Zero” will have prayer space, not a Mosque, seems to get thrown out the window. There has been a mosque in the area since 1970, it has never been a problem. In fact the Burlington Coat Factory building currently houses a prayer space. The oldest Catholic church in NYC is across from GZ. There is an adult products store around the corner. Do we have a no dildo zone? Oh and those two strip clubs?

Posted by: MerrillFrank | September 3, 2010 12:23 PM | Report abuse

We are talking about now. Only idiots like Palin and Jake are talking about two thousand years ago, as if that had any significance to current New York building codes.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 3, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Ladies and Gentlemen

You people just don't get it.

There was ANOTHER terrorist attempt in Times Square last April - and one report said that if that bomb went off, more than 3,000 would have been killed.


I think it is fair to say - that although Obama likes to play down the terrorist incidents which have happened - this mosque situation developed in the aftermath of the Times Square situation.


Now if someone can tell me how a Pakistani who goes to Pakistan for 6 months for terrorist training didn't get "terrorism 101" - Detonation, I don't know.


However, there were enough explosives there to kill 3,000 people.


Obama is just not taking terrorism seriously. This business about not properly questioning someone who might have been part of a multiple - bomb plot last December is ridiculous.


Obama seems more concerned with re-writing the caselaw - with re-defining things - than PROTECTING American citizens.


Al Queda is known for multiple bomb plots - the caselaw ALLOWS the questioning of suspects in that situation.


Somehow Obama either didn't know about the caselaw - or wanted to do something new - give terrorists a lawyer right away.

New York City is NOT protected properly. It is that simple - People are NOT happy with Obama - this has to do with the heightened sensitivity to the mosque.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 3, 2010 12:29 PM | Report abuse

No matter how many times Hate Mongers, and rabble rousing Talking Heads, or Blog "journalists" try to frame it as a "Mosque" debate, they are still distorting the truth for to advance their own agendas.

Reality Check:

A Mosque issues public calls to prayer, either, by having a Muezzin call out from a minaret, or by loud speaker.

The proposed Muslim Center will have neither, and therefore does not meet the definition of A Mosque.

It would be like calling An Irish Cultural Center, where Mass is sometimes said, and The Rosary is said daily, A Catholic Church.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 3, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

On the news the other night, I saw a report about the current status of our military occupation of Iraq. They described one gigantic military basis in Baghdad, that is named:"Camp Victory". How is that for rubbing it in the faces of Muslims, in their own country?

Posted by: Liam-still | September 3, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Mosque Exclusion Zone

Great question - and I am one of the people who take this issue seriously.


I believe that the rules should be this - in the exclusion zone, no buildings entirely dedicated to this purpose - no outside signs beyond small plaques -


In the exclusion zone, rooms can be rented in multiple use buildings for daily prayers.


The way it is done is important - there should not be a monument built - or something which can be used as a propaganda tool.


I believe there are some prayer rooms at various locations - these can be used for model as to what is allowable.


So, worship will be allowed - but sign and building regulations should apply.


Now - what is the zone - my first choice is everything south of 96th Street. They can go to Brooklyn - where many place of worship are.


Another idea is 14th Street - People seem to forget that Manhattan south of 14th Street was closed for a long, long time after the attacks. That is why Union Square Park became a Mourning Gathering area - it was above 14th Street.


Manhattan has a bunch of east-west main streets which could be dividing lines.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 3, 2010 12:41 PM | Report abuse

edit:

one gigantic military base.....

Posted by: Liam-still | September 3, 2010 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Liam-still at 12:30

So if it is not a mosque, then it is NOT protected by Freedom of Religion.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 3, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

If the bomb in Times Square did go off - and it had killed 3,000 people - the liberals would not be having the position they do.


So the liberal position is literary hanging by a bad fuse.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 3, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

The liberals are not taking the War On Terror seriously.


And yet, they are living in a country which has been protected by all the security measures taken over the past 9 years - including the two wars.


Iraq is a part of the War On Terror.

One can debate whether or not that was a correct decision - but a fair discussion of that issue has to include the fact that the democrats in Congress voted FOR the Iraqi War.


The liberals seem to forget all the Weapons Inspections in Iraq - and how Saddam did not co-operate and it became one big shell game.

I can tell you one thing: NOT ONE liberal walked out of work one day and was met by a chemical weapon placed by terrorist - a chemical weapon from Saddam.


Last April, 3,000 people could have been killed in Times Square - but the bomb (which WAS there) did not go off.

SO WAS IT A GOOD IDEA TO MAKE SURE THAT THE TERRORISTS DID NOT HAVE A SUPPLY OF CHEMICAL WEAPONS ?

The liberals want to "make sure" on global warming and spend billions - even if Global Warming isn't happening.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 3, 2010 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Terrorists set off bombs every day in Iraq. They were not doing so, until Bush/Cheney opened the door for them, and let them flood in to Iraq.

Bush/Cheney got close to a million people slaughtered in Iraq, and America has named their gigantic military base: "Camp Victory", but the Short Bus Right Wing Troll, wants us to get outraged about a "what if" event, that did not happen.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 3, 2010 12:54 PM | Report abuse

MerrillFrank at 12:23

I think you would feel differently if your family members were in Times Square in April when the bomb did not go off.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 3, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

So why don't you feel the same way about the USA invading Iraq, and getting a million citizens of that country slaughtered, as opposed to you fantasy, "what if" figure, that you want people to get all upset about?

Posted by: Liam-still | September 3, 2010 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Jake

New York City WAS attacked in April - the bomb did not go off.


That was 44th street. The Empire State Building is 34th street.

I think the proper EXCLUSION zone is 96th Street.

I see the point that Adam is making - some people believe the topic of an actual boundary is absurd - and others are taking it seriously and actually thinking of a zone.

There is a MASSIVE MOSQUE in Manhattan just north of 96th on the East Side.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | September 3, 2010 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Good points, SaveTheRainforest.

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 3, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

It's a building. Only Right Wing Bedwetters can be terrified by a proposed building renovation.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 3, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

"Camp Victory" is just a bunch of buildings around the airport (additionally, a new bowling center has opened to the northwest section ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 3, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

In Washington DC, those in support of our Constitutional rights of freedom of religion and worship will be joining together at Freedom Plaza at 2 PM on September 11. See 911Freedom.com

Posted by: responsiblepublic | September 3, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Camp Victory is a Sprawling Military Base.

How come Right Wing Hate Mongers do not care about the sensitivities of the Familiess of the million Iraqis who were slaughtered because of the Bush/Cheney Invasion and Occupation of their country?

Posted by: Liam-still | September 3, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Much better to "let" terrorists flood into Iraq (where we have flood control measures like Camp Victory in place), than flood into Manhattan. Familiess [SIC] of the million [SIC] Iraqis who were slaughtered [SIC] because of the Bush/Cheney Invasion and Occupation of their country are not protected by the First Amendment. Next question?

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 3, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

responsiblepublic:

Let us know if you get anywhere close to Glenn Beck's crowd, or even 87,000. I hear that Glenn Beck is going to be in Wasilla, Alaska on 9/11 this year.

Posted by: JakeD2 | September 3, 2010 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Bush/Cheney opened the Door for Al-Qaeda and let them flood into Iraq. At the same time, the let them recover and grow stronger in the border region of Afghanistan.


Bin Laden loves Right Wing Republicans. He could not have done it, without them.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 3, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Beck/Palin in Wasilla to observe 9/11, thus converting Wasilla into hallowed ground, where no Muslim may never live.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 3, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Bin Laden is actually on the record saying the Bill Clinton's decision to pull out of Somalia is when he came up with the 9/11 attack idea.

Posted by: clawrence12 | September 3, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Bin Laden is on record for having said that Ronald Reagan having run from Lebanon after having gotten hundreds of marines blown up, by a terrorist attack, and for also having been willing to trade missiles for hostages, was when he first became convinced that if you punched America in the face, it would run away, because that is what Ronald Reagan did in Lebanon.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 3, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Of course Bin Laden is also on record for having said that he decided that he had to attack America, because President George Herbert Walker Bush has establish US Military Bases in Saudia Arabia,

So you can take your pick. We do know that Bin Laden went to the Saudi Royal Family and tried to persuade them to not let American Troops be stationed there. Historically it looks like that is when Al-Qaeda started striking at America.

Posted by: Liam-still | September 3, 2010 3:14 PM | Report abuse

He never said that about Reagan in any broadcast video. I won't be defending Bush41 though (he should have cleaned up Saddam when he had the chance). I'm not here to argue with you.

Posted by: clawrence12 | September 3, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

There is a debate in the courts about the widespread use of boom boxes as tools in the call to prayer. Residents would be angry if the prayer was heard in every neighborhood. But this holy call is welcomed on the south side of Dearborn,Michigan at noon. The sound is not harsh, and one day it might be welcomed everywhere.

Posted by: morristhewise | September 3, 2010 5:32 PM | Report abuse

We did not consult with Pearl Harbor survivors or families of victims when we released the Japanese and Japanese-Americans from the camps. Their feelings should have been acknowledged and understood, but not heeded.

A similar, though not identical, situation exists in NYC today. Islam did not attack America, Al Qaeda did. We are at war with Al Qaeda, not Islam. For those who lost in the WTC attack, offer sympathy, understanding, comfort. If they believe that all Muslims must be punished for the horrific actions of a few, offer them therapy as well.

Let us make a distinction between sympathy and respect for the losses, and a legal, moral, and rational basis for public policy, as the City of New York has already done very appropriately.

Posted by: OldUncleTom | September 3, 2010 6:37 PM | Report abuse

I don't know how many times I need to repeat the message before it sinks into the thick skulls of Quisling apologists for Imam Rauf-- but my patience is spent with these lying, slandering Quislings for Islamo-supremacism.

This has NOTHING to do with intolerance of secular Muslims and everything to do with the apartheid Islamo-supremacism of Cordoba House, in particular.

Somehow, I think Quislings here wouldn't support a neo-pagan's "right" to erect an eternal Crann Tara monument next to a MLK memorial.

But when patriotic Americans object to stealth jihadists-- and (yes) that accurately describes the Cordoba House cabal-- opening a 9/11 snuff porn vendor emporium (and jihadi recruitment center) on the hallowed graves of Ground Zero-- the Quisling hypocrits shriek with indignation!

American Muslims may be the very soul of moderation. But I don’t think it’s unreasonable for Americans to ask for more from (allegedly) “peaceful” Cordoba House jihadists than insincere bromides and disingenuous whitewashing of uncomfortable elements of Islamic sharia law, as practiced by the Cordoba House cabal and their financial sponsors.

A genuine tiny minority of anti-jihadist Muslims may be found @
http://secularislam.org/

Americans remain breathless in anticipation of the sharia law vendors of Cordoba House supporting this genuinely tiny minority of their co-religionists-- but don’t hold your breath.

When will Quislings support Secular Islam advocates' right to live free from the sharia law intimidation of Cordoba House Islamo-supremacists?

"Ye blind guides, that strain out the gnat, and swallow the camel!"

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | September 3, 2010 9:44 PM | Report abuse

[OldUncleTom sputtered: "Islam did not attack America, Al Qaeda did. We are at war with Al Qaeda, not Islam."]

OldUncleTom has apparently been in a coma (both before and after 9/11) since he appears to think 9/11 was the only incident of Muslims attacking non-Muslims. If he wasn’t in a coma, there’s no excuse for such gross stupidity.

Muslims must take some responsibility for their global jihad when thousands of their co-religionists over the past two decades kill thousands of innocents of every religion around the world; and when they deprive non-Muslims of their human rights in 57 of 57 Muslim governed countries.

Look. American Muslims may be the very soul of moderation. But I don’t think it’s unreasonable for folks to ask for more from (allegedly) “peaceful” Muslims than disingenuous whitewashing of uncomfortable elements of Islamic sharia tradition, as practiced in Iran, Gaza, Kashmir, Malaysia, the Paris banlieue... and (pointedly) Cordoba House in NYC.

A genuine tiny minority of anti-jihadist Muslims may be found @ SecularIslam.org.

Americans remain breathless in anticipation of the vast majority of (allegedly) “peaceful” American Muslims supporting this genuinely tiny minority of their co-religionists... but don’t hold your breath.

+15K deadly Islamo-supremacist attacks since 9/11 don’t lie. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Don't parrot the propaganda lies of Cordoba House Islamo-supremacists your whole life, Quislings.

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | September 3, 2010 9:52 PM | Report abuse

With OUR tax dollars, Obama is helping IMPOSE Sharia:
-- As a Senator, he supported Odinga, his anti-U.S. Marxist cousin, who made a pact with the Muslims to impose SHARIA on Kenyans, although only 10% of them are Muslim. Read the pact: file.wikileaks.org/file/MOU_between_Ralia_Odinga_and_Muslims.pdf

-- Obama donated 23 million for a new Kenyan constitution with SHARIA and abortion.

-- Obama paid for Rauf’s trip to Islamic countries to "represent us."
Rauf, the imam behind the mosque, has said that the U.S. "has more Muslim blood on its hands" than al-Qaeda. He blames the U.S. for 9/11, is connected to Hamas and wants SHARIA for us.

NO mosque, NO Sharia!

Posted by: AntonioSosa | September 3, 2010 10:28 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to point out that the people developing Park51 refer to the prayer room as a Mosque on their own website - www.park51.org

As for the Times Square bomb, don't listen to the politicians, listen to people with actual experience dealing with bombs. It was just as likely to kill "3,000 people" as the gas tank in the car was. That's no joke, the bomb had no oxidizer, it was precisely as dangerous as a tank of gas. It was pretty much the same failure in design that the 2007 London nightclub and Glasgow airport car bombs had. Plus, even if he had used a proper oxidizer like ammonium nitrate, the bomb was so poorly constructed that it would have been pure luck if it did anything more than burn out his SUV.

That's not to say that the guy didn't have intent to create mayhem, just that he was an idiot - like the diaper bomber and practically every other 'terrorist' rounded up in the USA since 9/11. We have little to fear from these guys, even if they do eventually blow something else up, chances are more people will die in car accidents that week than in whatever the terrorists do. We need to start laughing at them and stop fearing them.

Posted by: Antigon3 | September 3, 2010 10:56 PM | Report abuse

Yes, an exclusion zone should be established. All rightwing Christian (some Jews and Atheists)- who have become a pack of "9/11 Nazis"- should be kept 10 miles from any mosque or Muslim community centre in the country!

As Conservatives support racial profiling, why not keep them away from these 'Muslim' areas by force. We all know how they look like- white, often carrying a Bibles, love football, vote Republican, Bush/Palin bumper sticker, always whining about Liberals, etc.

Posted by: akhtarman | September 5, 2010 2:14 PM | Report abuse

[akhtarman spat: "Conservatives support racial profiling"]

Remind me again... what "race" are Muslims?

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | September 6, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

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