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Dems' next challenge: Linking secret election cash to economy

Okay, so here's the next question. It appears Democrats are doubling down on their strategy of hammering Republicans for benefiting from the massive amount of undisclosed corporate cash that's funding ads attacking Dems. Whether this can work may depend on one thing: Can Dems successfully tie the secret cash issue to the economy?

If you look around, you can see that little by little, in public and in private, Dem strategists are trying to nudge the debate in that direction. A new memo circulated by the DNC for pro-Dem commentators, columnists and editorial writers lays out talking points to accomplish this goal. The talking points detail the unprecedented amount of anonymous ad funding, and claim that the funders of the ads will expect payback from Republicans in the form of economic policies that benefit them over average Americans:

All of this is not a coincidence. Republicans in Congress support policies favoring the super rich and corporate special interests at the expense of middle class families. Republicans oppose requirements that groups taking money from corporate special interests disclose their donors. Republicans receive a massive infusion of secret, special interest spending in support of their campaigns. Need one even ask what will happen when the sources of all these contributions come calling on Republicans on Capitol Hill?

You can find more Dem candidates who are trying to draw this link, too. Dem Rep. Tom Perriello's campaign whacked his GOP opponent recently for "being backed by powerful special-interest groups that advocate for the outsourcing of American jobs." Russ Feingold's campaign recently hit GOP foe Ron Johnson as follows: "It's clear whose side Ron Johnson is on -- the wealthy, out-of-state corporate special interests who are trying to buy this election."

The Dem belief that they can successfully tie what's fundamentally a campaign finance issue to voter anxiety about the economy flies in the face of Beltway conventional wisdom. Some pundits have written this strategy off as dead. Mark Halperin, for instance, recently claimed that the issue is "convoluted and far-fetched," and that it "distracts from the issues voters care about."

It's too soon to know whether the secret cash strategy is bearing fruit. But polling does suggest people may be receptive to linking the issue to the economy. The MoveOn/Survey USA poll I noted yesterday found that 53 percent are less likely to think a candidate who is backed by "anonymous groups" can be trusted to "improve economic conditions" for them or their families. New polling from the Dem firm Democracy Corps finds a majority favors a Dem message over a GOP one of cutting taxes and reining in the deficit -- if the Dem one emphasizes fighting corporate special interests on behalf of the middle class.

The question of whether voters will link the secret cash to the economy is part of the larger conundrum Dems are facing. The sputtering recovery has left the public deeply skeptical of Dem economic policies, and the only hope for Dems is to persuade people that GOP policies would be far worse. Dems hope the secret cash has handed them a new weapon to make that case: It isn't just that GOP economic policy has been proven wrongheaded; it's deliberately designed to help the wealthy and special interests at your expense. The GOP, at bottom, is not looking out for your interests. All this outside money -- coming from those who know very well which party butters their bread -- proves it.

So runs the closing message that Dems have settled on. The Dems' best hope is for voters to see the secret cash debate as an economic issue. We'll know whether it's working soon enough.

By Greg Sargent  | October 15, 2010; 12:59 PM ET
Categories:  2010 elections, Campaign finance, economy  
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Comments

Nobody should ever forget a quote from Charles Keating, a man at the heart of the last great financial crisis. When asked about the amounts of money he'd donated to the Keating Five (including Senator McCain), in order to gain deregulation that caused the savings and loan crisis, he was very clear. His words: "One question, among many raised in recent weeks, had to do with whether my financial support in any way influenced several political figures to take up my cause. I want to say in the most forceful way I can: I certainly hope so."

The man was a crook, but an honest one.

Posted by: groucho42 | October 15, 2010 1:04 PM | Report abuse

Last night Rachel Maddow had a clip from 2004 of the head of the Chamber of Commerce who's name escapes me right now but, he actually said that "some" outsourcing is good for business. What an ass. She also showed press clips of foreign business who've been flagged as the best in call centers which I believe was India and several other countries who were advertising how great they were. Basically, if you worked here at a call center as Rachel suggested and you lost your job, guess where it went? With the Chamber refusing to open their books, they only look guilty.

Posted by: roxsteady | October 15, 2010 1:11 PM | Report abuse

LOL!!!

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

GEESSSSHHHHHHHHHHHH


Analyze the Corporate money Bill Clinton got - and how that led to the FREE TRADE DEALS

Many domestic corporations have foreign operations which benefitted from Free trade deals that the DEMOCRATS DID.

Analyze the Wall Street money Bill Clinton got - and how that led to the DEREGULATION OF DERIVATIVES.

___________________

The democrats are going NOWHERE if they concentrate on issues which THEY ARE GUILTY OF TOO.


Why don't you attack POLITICS ITSELF?


It makes just about as much sense.


Liberalism is DEAD - it is over - the liberals are at the "mumbling stage" - there is nothing but non-sense coming out.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 15, 2010 1:16 PM | Report abuse

roxsteady:

With Barack Obama refusing to release his birth certificate, he only looks guilty.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 1:17 PM | Report abuse

" The GOP, at bottom, is not looking out for your interests."

This has been true for at least the last 100 years. Over the years the GOP has used social issues as a wedge , while at the same time undermining people's faith in their public institutions. It's a distraction while they and their corporate pals loot the country.
To say as Halperin does that this distracts from the issues voters care about is so jaw droppingly obtuse that it's a wonder that he even gets published.
I guess he hopes to be the next Broder.
Screw you Mark.

Posted by: filmnoia | October 15, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

SaveTheRainforest:

When Democrats do it (over $103 million in "Uncoded" donations to Obama's 2008 campaign), that's just fine.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Says JakeD2 the alleged child molester.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 15, 2010 1:22 PM | Report abuse

filmnoia:

If you really think that JOBS and the economy today are not the top issues (rather than "secret cash funding attack ads") you are sure going to be shocked on November 3rd!

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

mikefromArlington:

I am simply using her own (il)logic against Obama. I have always said that it's possible Obama was born in Hawaii. roxsteady thinks that the ONLY reason the Chamber of Commerce is refusing to disclose more than what's required under the law already is because they are guilty.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 1:26 PM | Report abuse

GEESSSSHHHHHHHHHHHH


Analyze the Corporate money Bill Clinton got - and how that led to the FREE TRADE DEALS

Many domestic corporations have foreign operations which benefitted from Free trade deals that the DEMOCRATS DID.

Analyze the Wall Street money Bill Clinton got - and how that led to the DEREGULATION OF DERIVATIVES.

___________________

The democrats are going NOWHERE if they concentrate on issues which THEY ARE GUILTY OF TOO.


Why don't you attack POLITICS ITSELF?


It makes just about as much sense.


Liberalism is DEAD - it is over - the liberals are at the "mumbling stage" - there is nothing but non-sense coming out.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 15, 2010 1:27 PM | Report abuse

SUPPORT OUR DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES!

http://www.actblue.com/page/plcommunity

I just threw in for Alan Grayson, Raul Grijalva, Joe Sestak, John Hall, and Scott McAdams!

WOO HOO!

Hit it up at ActBlue if you can. Any bit helps in the critical final weeks. And remember, any money that doesn't go to the final run of ads helps to crucial crucial GOTV efforts!

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 15, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

The Troll Patrol arrives signaling the time for me to go. O & O.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | October 15, 2010 12:08 PM
=============================

Agreed.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | October 15, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

"If you really think that JOBS and the economy today are not the top issues (rather than "secret cash funding attack ads") you are sure going to be shocked on November 3rd!"

Are you as dense as Halperin? Big money (domestic and foreign) from the CofC being funneled to the GOP connects directly to outsourcing of American jobs and the overall stability of this economy. If you can't figure that out then there is no help for guys like you and Mark.

Posted by: filmnoia | October 15, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce PAC, as well as the Chamber as a registered lobbyist, already make the required disclosures under current law -- if you want to change the law (or the Citizens United case), go ahead and try -- short of that, the federal government should not be abridging their free speech rights.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

The democrats are DESPERATE

Everyone can see that they are HIDING their liberalism - and they are trying to complain about the SYSTEMIC problems of the political system -


AS a means to get people to vote for liberals? I suppose you think that means such a vote will "mandate" a far-left agenda. That is the LOGICAL fallacy.


The election is all about OBAMA.


This election is ALL about Obama's handling of the economy - after a TRILLION DOLLARS OF SPENDING OBAMA HAS TO TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY.

Isn't that just the problem -


Obama is TRYING TO EVADE RESPONSIBILITY.


Liberals : TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR OBAMA.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 15, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

ifthethunderdontgetya:

Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

SaveTheRainforest at days end...

http://www.newwaveinstruments.com/humor/misc/computer_grief.htm

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 15, 2010 1:34 PM | Report abuse

filmnoia:

No.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

I am still waiting for Obama and the democrats to start some RACIAL INCIDENT


The only way the democrats can get any traction is to turn this election into some RACIAL THING.


Obama and his people are trying desperately to find some way TO MAKE FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM.


IT IS THE ONLY WAY -


You know Obama is going to try it - the only thing he THINKS he has is the race card. Or will Obama realize that it will backfire - like the Shirley Sherrod situation.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 15, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

PaciolisRevenge:

Yes, there is a moderator; personal attacks are prohibited and will be removed from the site. If you continue to post them, they will take steps to block users who violate any of our posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies or any other policies governing this site. Please review the full rules governing commentaries and discussions.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

SaveTheRainforest:

I think he was trying to do that by calling the Cambridge police "stupid" (luckily, that backfired on him big time ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Paco

Please stop harassing the other posters. Your comments are harassment.

You can still comment - just try to stick to the topics. What is your opinion? Do you have an opinion beside complaining about other people?


Try not to focus on other people - try to focus on the issues - and supporting your opinions.

You are so concerned with other people that you are forgetting to JUSTIFY AND SUPPORT YOUR OPINIONS.

Perhaps that is because you believe your opinions have little support - and they will easily fail under examination. Maybe at that point you should consider changing your opinions.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 15, 2010 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Secret foreign cash ? secret conspiracy ? heck even the New York Times has dismised this as a red herring - unproven, unsubstantiated, stinky and a distraction.

Are you just confirming the ole Journolist group and media / Dem talking points and united messaging ... is alive ?

Posted by: pvilso24 | October 15, 2010 1:41 PM | Report abuse

CNBC article:

Survey: Investors Fear Government Far More Than Inflation, Terrorism

"Institutional investors fear a government policy mistake far more than inflation, terrorism, a housing double dip, a weak dollar, poor earnings or any other potential risk to the economy, according to a survey of 100 mutual fund, hedge fund and pension fund managers by Citigroup Global Markets.

“Government Policy Missteps” garnered more than a third of the participants’ votes as their biggest fears in the quarterly survey, ahead of the more than 15 percent who cited “Protectionism,” which is also strongly-tied to the actions of the Administration and Congress.

But these very same investors are bullish on the market and plan to buy stocks this quarter because they believe the chances of that policy error will decrease if Republicans take back the House of Representatives in November.

“While political polls suggest that changes are likely in Washington, a staggering number of professional investors think that the Republicans will win back the House of Representatives in November and that may be adding to their sense of a better business environment going forward,” said Tobias Levkovich, Citigroup’s U.S. equity strategist, in a note.

nvestors, on average, see the S&P 500 adding at least another 3 percent to 1204 by the end of the year, according to the survey, up from their July mean projection of 1138. More than 70 percent expect to put more money to work in equities this quarter and next year. The S&P 500 is up 14 percent from its 2010 closing low hit on July 2.

“If you overlay the 2004 stock market chart during those elections, it gets you to between 1200 and 1300 on the S&P 500 before the end of this year,” said Stuart Frankel’s Steve Grasso, whose clients have been placing more orders with him in anticipation of a political change.

In 2004, stocks rallied 13 percent from their early August lows. George W. Bush won a second term as President and Republicans gained seats in both houses."

That is the overriding narrative.

Posted by: sold2u | October 15, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Desperation, disappointment, anger and hatred - that's all the Democrats have left to offer. They had an enormous opportunity and they chose to waste it. Incompetence of the left is quite embarrassing.

Posted by: jmk55 | October 15, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

pvilso24:

Supposedly, even the NYT is in on this vast right-wing (PaciolisRevenge: may I use a "hyphen" for an adjective?) conspiracy.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Resident non-trolls, I had gotten the sense that things had improved around here. Am I wrong?

Posted by: Greg Sargent | October 15, 2010 1:46 PM | Report abuse

sold2u. That sounds like some outrageous going Galt crap there that they will take their money elsewhere.

If there is demand, investors will invest. I can't believe a fictional book has ingrained its self into a bunch of moronic analysis out there.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 15, 2010 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Paco

By definition you are now a troll


And I counted your posts for yesterday, you now fall under "thread-bombing" too.


Please adjust.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 15, 2010 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Greg Sargent:

Are personal attacks prohibited or not?

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Ethan

Way to go on the actblue page, we've done pretty well, getting close to $800. I'm getting ready to put more in for my guy here, Hedrick. He made up about 8 points in the poll since the end of Sept and is easily within striking distance and margin of error.

Thanks for the money for Grijalva, I added him this week as he's one of the good guys and in a close race.

Anyway, Thanks

Posted by: lmsinca | October 15, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

@mike:

Just relaying the information:

Here is the link: http://www.cnbc.com/id/39615608?__source=thestreet&par=thestreet

I know it goes against the narrative, but there it is. Obama has worked very hard to cement the anti-business image. I know Progressives don't buy that he is anti-business, but they are in the minority.

The irony of it all is that after the Republicans take the house, the subsequent governmental gridlock may in fact make business less cautious and help turn the economy around, which could save his bacon in 2012.

Posted by: sold2u | October 15, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Greg Sargent | October 15, 2010 1:46 PM

Yes, you are wrong.

This place isn't worth the time it takes to come here.

O & O, as suekzoo1 and ifthethunderdontgetya would say.

Posted by: PaciolisRevenge | October 15, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

"Some pundits have written this strategy off as dead. Mark Halperin, for instance, recently claimed that the issue is "convoluted and far-fetched," and that it "distracts from the issues voters care about."

I've stopped listening to any opinions Haliperin and "other pundits" have to say because they don't know crap about what is really going on outside their own little worlds. CNN, Fox and some MCNBC commentators have these so called "experts" on and act like these guys have the last word in what is going on. Got news for them, they don't know jack, we out here in the real world realize how we are being sold down the river by the C of C, Rove, Gillespie and big corporations. We aren't going quietly, so watch what happens when you climb out of bed Nov. 3rd and turn on these Bozo's. Watch them try to spin what happened and how far they were out in la-la land.

Posted by: clintt5 | October 15, 2010 1:54 PM | Report abuse

All, I'm working on switching to a Cillizza style comments section.

I hope you'll be patient.

Posted by: Greg Sargent | October 15, 2010 1:56 PM | Report abuse

They do not need to link it to the economy. All they have to do is link it to Republicans having sold out to a Secret Sinister Cabal of Wall St. Robber Barons, and Exporters of good paying manufacturing jobs.

The Secret Cabal is not laundering all that money through Karl Rove, and The Chamber Of Con Artists, in order to elect Republicans, without having being promised that Republicans will rubber stamp their secret and sinister agenda.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 1:56 PM | Report abuse

PaciolisRevenge: The prohibition on personal attacks don't apply to attacks on Joke and STRF because they aren't human.

Posted by: Observer691 | October 15, 2010 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Read it for yourselves.

"Mitch Daniels open to VAT, oil tax hike"


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1010/43648.html


Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Thank goodness -- I would LOVE a switch to a Cillizza-style comments section -- it could not happen to a nicer guy.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Greg,

Look at the WaPo politics homepage:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sectionfronts/politics/index.html

Photos of:

Sharron Angle
Sarah Palin
Christine O'Donnell
Condi Rice
Republican airing graphic anti-abortion ad
and Glenn Beck

WHAT THE FK??????

Is this supposed to be journalism?

WaPo homepage producers stink.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 15, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

hey, have any of you heard about Democrat Charlie Wilson's history of wife beating?

I figured that since the words of folks like O'donnell and Angle get examined endlessly here, you guys would like to speak to this issue.

I'll be waiting for you to pile on Mr Wilson. It should make for some entertaining reading.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | October 15, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

All, I'm working on switching to a Cillizza style comments section.

I hope you'll be patient.

Posted by: Greg Sargent | October 15, 2010 1:56 PM

......................

Describe how that would work, please? Will it have a comments feature?

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

The current debate about "Secret Cash" contributions for elections proves just how brittle Chief Justice Roberts' ruling for treating Corporate donations to Campaigns has made the election process.

Even the apparence of malfeance and voter manipulation through untracked corporate donations skews the Democratic process and calls in to question the US's ability to claim to be the preeminate guardian of Liberty and Justice for all.

This is the Republican Tea Party acting at its Worst! God help us all if they manipulate themselves back into power.

Posted by: oregonbirddog | October 15, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

oregonbirddog:

Just wait until the next few Roberts Court rulings come down (not to mention his boycott of the "State of the Union" address ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 2:08 PM | Report abuse

The echo chamber is crumbling, crumbling, crumbling.

Friggin' hilarious to see the reactions. If there's one thing that infuriates liberals and makes them resort to "storming off the set," it is confronting them with facts.

Keep it up, Jake and STRF. You are doing good work.

Posted by: etpietro | October 15, 2010 2:09 PM | Report abuse

The Gang Of Five Right Wing Supreme Court Judical Activists made it possible for Secret Money to Purchase Elections, and install their own Puppet Government. Now all they have to do, is launder the money through the likes of Karl Rove,and The Chamber Of Con Artists, and The Robber Barons have bought their selves their very own Puppet Government.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

etpietro:

; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Liam -- I'm not sure yet how it would work. I will keep you posted...

Posted by: Greg Sargent | October 15, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

"federal government should not be abridging their free speech rights."

Hey Jake, I guess we won't be hearing from you about an activist Supreme Court who legislate from the bench? At least not until Thomas and Scalia hit the road.
The campaign finance decision was judicial activism at its most flagrant. It's the reason why both Bushs have us Thomas, Roberts and Alito. They are "kept" boys.

Posted by: filmnoia | October 15, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Liar-still:

Were you this upset about the $103 million in "Secret Money to Purchase Elections" given to Obama in 2008?

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=n00009638

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse


All, I'm working on switching to a Cillizza style comments section.

I hope you'll be patient.

Posted by: Greg Sargent | October 15, 2010 1:56 PM
......................

JakeD2 and STRF bragged about having disrupted that blog so much, that they forced Cillizza to change to that format. They stated that they were going to try and make you do the same thing.

Now you say that you are going to give in to them.

Well done JakeD2 and STRF. You have accomplished what you said you were going to do to Plumline. You have every right to crow about how you took down another blog.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Judging from the hysterical reactons from the right wing representatives here and SaveTheRainForest's increased use of caps and repetitive posting, I'd say this strategy is a really good idea!

It's pretty easy to tie it to the economy. Just note all the foreign contributors (the publicly disclosed ones the NYT reporters were too lazy to look up) to the Chamber that profit from outsourcing of American jobs. Tie the Republican party to the outsourcing of American jobs and watch the use of hysterical posts and the use of caps increase on this site.

I gotta say, after enduring months and months of whacked out claims (Kenyan marxist blah blah blah) by right wingers, it's enjoyable to see some truth finally kick back.

Resume the right wing freak out...

Posted by: Alex3 | October 15, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

"All, I'm working on switching to a Cillizza style comments section"

Chris Cillizza - another font of DC conventional wisdom. What was it that he said about Angle's debate performance meeting the lowest bar of expectations? This is what passes for political insight? ZZZZZZZZZZ

Posted by: filmnoia | October 15, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

STRF,
Dude, nobody reads your posts. We're all scrolling past them. Give your Caps Lock a break and go watch some porn or something else productive.

Posted by: cao091402 | October 15, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

filmnoia:

I guess that depends on how you are defining the concept. Would it be "judicial activism" to overturn Roe v. Wade and restore the status quo ante?

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

"A new memo circulated by the DNC for pro-Dem commentators..."

Which you dutifully quote. Verbatim. And the WaPo dutifully publishes. Verbatim.

You, and this "paper", are blatantly nothing more that mouthpieces for the Democrats.

Posted by: JamesMeager1 | October 15, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

SaveTheRainforest:

I am (obviously) reading your post (so is "etpietro"). Other people are liars.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

What ever happened to that retired military officer who sang that song; Pants On The Ground?

I would like to get in touch with him, and ask him to compose a new song; Hannity In My Pants.


"Why would I ever need to masturb@te, when I always have Sean Hannity in my pocket?" Christine O'Donnell.

Could there ever be a better time for Craig Ferguson to have his robot sidekick contact Christine, and shout:

"In Your Pants!!!"

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse

skipsailing28:

I had not heard that about Charlie Wilson, but given what was in that movie with Tom Hanks and Julia Roberts, it doesn't shock me.

For any lurkers who have never before heard that Obama failed to disclose his campaign contributions:

At least $25,289,671 of his 2008 campaign donations were indeed NOT disclosed (big surprise you haven't heard about that, given the support he got from the lamestream media):

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/summary.php?cycle=2008&cid=n00009638

In addition, over $5 million was returned to (potential) foreign donors and another $15,611,429 was deemed to be "incomplete" disclosure, without sufficient information to tell one way or the other. In total, over $103 million ended up "Uncoded" so we may never know the full truth.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Liam, my sense was that some of the regulars had wanted a switch to a new format. Hence I would be giving in to the regulars, not the others.

So question on the table: Do people want a new format or not?

Posted by: Greg Sargent | October 15, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

The Fix-style comments section does have some advantages. One is threading. Responses to an individual comment

It had a few kinks to be worked out. There was a liking feature, but that wound up becoming self-liking and was abandoned. There are several aspects that I don't like. The first is the tweets. There's a large number of tweets that simply repeat the first (140 is it?) characters of the blog post. An occasional pithy comment does get through on a tweet, but it's the exception that proves the rule.

The comments section is in reverse chronological order. That's less a problem as the individual comments are threaded. Older comments are also hidden at the bottom of the page and you have to keep hitting MORE to see them. It's a pain if you get to the comments section later in the day.

Overall, my view is the conversation is pretty good here. 37th has singularly failed at the thread bombing that was so effective over at the Fix. The other problem was that there were some fairly nasty comments. A character called King of Zouk delighted in personal digs, going so far as to find the online resume of another commenter and posting sections of it for ridicule. Such behavior was not limited to one side of the aisle. A significant fraction of the regulars were more interested high fiving each other and attacking the other side than actually discussing politics.

And to anyone who is reminded about blog rules by 37th. Said individual was repeatedly banned and so anything about behavior should be taken with a large single crystal of sodium chloride.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | October 15, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Lots of baloney in the comments here today, I see.
The fact is, any large corporation contributing money to a candidate or political party is going to expect payback if their candidates get elected. No point in trying to tie it to the economy, except...a lot of Democratic pols are owned by corporate interests too, and they sure don't want that coming out at election time.
Misdirection often works well on US voters. The Republicans are doing a fantastic job of it, but it may be a bit late in the game for the Dems to manage this one.

Posted by: meand2 | October 15, 2010 2:29 PM | Report abuse

It will work only on those that no matter what the truth want to believe that only the Republicans are doing it. The Democrats are just as deep into the same money that they can not breath. They both do it...just ask a Democrat how Soros and his gang are funneling money to the them without Soros being associated. It is the same no matter what party.

Posted by: staterighter | October 15, 2010 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Greg Sargent | October 15, 2010 2:27 PM

Just buy a "Ban Hammer" and use it on those that are here to ruin it for the rest of us. You must know who I'm talking about.

Even the conservatives want them gone!

FYI - I am NOT talking about Kevin, SBJ, or Skip, they are all golden. They are smart and willing to debate honestly, at least that is how they seem to me.

Posted by: PaciolisRevenge | October 15, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

I think it is unfair to refer to STRF as a "troll." Actually, "jellyfish" would be a better description. A jellyfish has almost no substance -- it is about 98% water. It also has no brain and no heart. Finally, it has only one orifice, which serves as both mouth and anus. It floats along, gathering "food," and then poops out whatever is indigestible. Sounds like STRF!

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 15, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Soros isn't donating this year, nor last year, nor the year before if I understood that article the other day.

Any other boogiemen left?

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 15, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Greg

We are still getting harassed - and there is hostility being expressed.

We need a situation in which the hostile comments are not acceptable.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 15, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Ya gotta wonder how many people those anonymous donors could put to work if they didn't spend all those millions on negative ads designed to put more money back in their pockets- job killers who?

Posted by: TillerJoe | October 15, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Liam - it's not all that bad. It is a bit less freewheeling, but there is a good discussion. Given that I haven't been a regular here for long, it'd be worth having some of those who are longtime Plum regulars to take a look over at the Fix comments. Which is best?

The alternative to a shift is to put up with the occasional thread bombing. When more than half the lines of the Fix comments section were from one individual, it grew too much for me.

A line count limit along with characters as well as limiting posting frequency would handle most of 37ths antics. Banning people simply doesn't work as multiple individuals have demonstrated that they can simply reregister with a new screen name.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | October 15, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Bearclaw

Obviously - by your analogy - the liberal idealogy is indigestible.


So I have to agree with you.


Thank you very much.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 15, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

SaveTheRainforest, you keep spamming, we keep calling you a complete idiot.

It's pretty simple.

Stop the spam and we won't hurt your wittle feelings.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 15, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse


Liam, my sense was that some of the regulars had wanted a switch to a new format. Hence I would be giving in to the regulars, not the others.

So question on the table: Do people want a new format or not?

Posted by: Greg Sargent | October 15, 2010 2:27 PM
.................

Since you will not tell us how the format will work, how the hell can you ask us to be patient. The reason why some people have been asking for a change in format is because they are sick and tired of the two people who said that they were going to force you to do, what they forced Cizzilla to do. You know that very well.

If the new format is going to restrict everybody, in order to restrict those two trouble makers, then I want no part of it. So please tell me, what are you asking me to be patient for. I took a look at that other blog, and I did not like what I saw. The Fix has been fixed alright. Fixed as in neutered.

Do you recall the old borscht belt joke about the Jewish woman with two pet chickens? One of them got very sick, so the woman killed the healthy chicken, to make chicken soup for the very sick one.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

TillerJoe:

How many Americans would $760 million have employed in 2008 (not counting Obama campaign pollsters)?

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Earlier Kevin brought up Ruth McClung, whom he described as an accomplished Conservative candidate for national office. McClung is running against the head of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, Raúl M. Grijalva in Tucson, Arizona. Kevin noted that McClung was a "rocket scientist" and that made me curious. It appears that McClung went to Pima Community College for 2 years before transferring to and graduating from the University of Arizona with a B.S. in physics. While in community college McClung began working as an intern at what her web site calls "a local engineering company." That local engineering company" is Raytheon, the huge military-industrial weapons company. Apparently, McClung still works at Raytheon.

McClung is in fact the person who described herself as a "rocket scientist" but there is no indication what she actually does at Raytheon. It seems difficult to believe that McClung is a senior scientist, holding just a bachelor's degree and having done half her undergraduate time at a community college.

So we don't know what McClung's actual works is at Raytheon and maybe she is a senior person of some sort. But we do know this: If she is elected a Raytheon employee would be the new Congressman from the 7th District of Arizona.

Sounds nice: McClung (R-Raytheon).

And as a special bonus, Big Money would get rid of the leader of the Progressive Caucus and one of the true Liberals in the House. I can see the Koch Bros popping the champagne corks already!

Posted by: wbgonne | October 15, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Greg

It is a horrible idea - the new format killed the other blog.

It did - it is a fact.

Glad to know that all bloggers are created equal.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 15, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Greg Sargent:

I will be patient.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Greg: re, new format:

Well, given that I'm behind an Educational Networks of America proxy filter (and that I can see the comments on The Fix when I'm not), I can only assume I'd be participating--and, indeed, alas, reading the comments on the Plum Line--much less, if you change to the new format and it's the same thing. I am probably one of the only people here that that would effect, however, and it probably wouldn't hurt my productivity not to be able to comment (or read the comments) here. ;)

Even if I could still participate (which I will occasionally manage, just not often), the fact that you don't see comment counts on the articles on The Fix irritates me.

My comments. If you do me the switch . . . adieu, adieu!

No doubt, Ethan2010 would be most pleased. :)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 15, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

TillerJoe:

The Obama campaign spent more than $760 million in 2008. Did you ever ask whether that could have been used more "economically"? Why did Obama renege on his promise to forgo private funding in the general election campaign?

At least $25,289,671 of his 2008 campaign donations were indeed NOT disclosed (big surprise you haven't heard about that, given the support he got from the lamestream media):

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/summary.php?cycle=2008&cid=n00009638

In addition, over $5 million was returned to (potential) foreign donors and another $15,611,429 was deemed to be "incomplete" disclosure, without sufficient information to tell one way or the other. In total, over $103 million ended up "Uncoded" so we may never know the full truth.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

This strategy has the reek of fear. It is a vain attempt at distracting the voters.

Both Obama and the Democrats have now earned their reputation for being anti business.

Americans are smart enough to know that it is businesses that do the hiring and that as long as businesses are getting pummeled by the hard left of the Democrat party americans have every right to blame this disastrous economy on the president and his acolytes.

and it is NOT that Charlie Wilson Jake. The Charlie Wilson I mention is the Democrat Congressman from Ohio's 6th congressional district.

I mention the wife beating history because the liberal press just won't. We've heard about Rich Iott's WW2 re enactment. We've heard about the unwitnessed and unproven allegations against Tom Ganley. Daily we are treated to condescending remarks from Mr Sargent about O'Donnell or Angle or whoever. but this revelation has never hit the papers that I can see.

I just wonder how the lefty commenters here would react. So far they've chosen to ignore the issue. Who could blame them?

Here is proof that God may not have a sense of humor but he definitely has a sense of irony:
"WASHINGTON, DC – Congressman Charlie Wilson (OH-6) is pleased to announce a federal grant worth $300,000 from the U.S. Department of Justice that will benefit Ohio University’s Program to Reduce Domestic Violence, Sexual Assault, and Stalking on Campus."

Posted by: skipsailing28 | October 15, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Jake,

I think you have the wrong Charlie Wilson. The reference was ambiguous, but it likely was to Rep. Charlie Wilson, D-OH.

And the only "proof" of "wife beating" appears to be allegations in divorce pleadings from 20 years ago. But I guess anything in a pleading is true . . .

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 15, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Mikefrom Arlington

Your behavior is out-of-line

And you should not be allowed to intimidate or blackmail other posters.


Clearly, your attitude is against the rules.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 15, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

I'm old enough to remember ragged farmers asking 2¢/bushel for green beans - YES, 2¢/bushel. Also remember my uncle with toes peeking out of his shoes in a harsh winter, as he tried to "get by" with his "Hoover Mule".
FDR's WPA and CCC (infrastructure workers) saved the day ---AND my wife's rich uncle, who made his money renting run down shanties to negroes in a Birmingham Ghetto, HATED FDR (as did most GOPers).
THIS IS DEJA VU .... with the GOP not just set to drive us back to Robber Baron Hoover Days, but have ALREADY pushed a lot of us out of decent work.
If you don't realize how badly we need workers for our infrastructure (sewage systems, bridges, rails, highways, water purification, etc.) you are, in a word - STUPID! GOPers are already saying "NO" to Obamas' attempt to stimulate jobs with 5 billion for infrastructure. Their EXCUSE is the Deficit. GEEZE! The two MAIN causes of the deficit are Bush's nothing to do with 9/11 war, and his obscene tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans (like himself). NEITHER of those were paid for - - -but you will NEVER hear a FOX pundit bring that up.
Geeze - - -talk about FEAR--you po' young Republicans don't understand that the GOP is fixin' things so that MOST of you won't ever be able to enjoy the life styles of your Grandparents (or Parents). Geeze! The stupidity.

Posted by: lufrank1 | October 15, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Oh. OK. Thanks for the clarification : )

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Greg,

See, they are mocking you.

Isn't the real problem that you are trying to solve is how to provide a way for people to be able to not have to look at posts from certain commenters, that they do not like? I imagine that you get barraged with such complaints from all sides, and no doubt several people have probably complained about me.

What you need is an ignore feature, that registered members can use. All they would have to do is click on the ignore icon, on any poster, and it will automatically block all posting from that commenter from showing up on the person's screen, but will still be seen by all other readers.

Here is a site that offers such a feature, and it works very well. Those that do not want to see postings from certain people, are able to put them on their ignore list, and they never again have to see them.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/index.php

It should not be very difficult for your programming staff to develop such a software function.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Pfffffttttt.

STRF is now policing "attitude."

Nice going, Jellyfish.

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 15, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

cao091402 at 2:18 PM

Since you are not reading, then you should have no problem with anything I say -


Because you claim you are not reading


So everything is OK, right?


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 15, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

@wbgonne: "'That local engineering company' is Raytheon, the huge military-industrial weapons company. Apparently, McClung still works at Raytheon."

Now you're just trying to make her sound more awesome that she already is. Enough, already!

I'll miss you, wbgonne. And, frankly, I'll miss you, too. Ethan. And bernielatham, and Sue Kzoo and ScottC3, and Quarterback, and JakeD2. And little Liam, I think I'll miss you most of all!

;)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 15, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

bearclaw1:

If it weren't for Jack Ryan's divorce, Barack Obama would not be in the White House today ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

ALL

Apparently Paco would prefer an echo-chamber of liberal ideas - or one in which the liberal ideas are dominate.


Well - the country disagrees - Freedom of Speech is cherished.

TOLERANCE is the accepted response to speech which you do not like.


For some reason, the liberals have gotten the idea that they should push out ideas which they do not like.


That is NOT tolerance. AND the liberals have gotten quite confused. They have STOPPED LISTENING to so many people, they have DECEIEVED THEMSELVES into believing that a majority of the country agrees with them. Clearly that is not the case.


The country has REJECTED liberal ideas.


Many liberals would find this to be news - because they have LONG AGO CEASED to listen.


Freedom of Speech actually has too advantages - one is speech - HOWEVER THE LIBERALS ARE ALSO GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO LISTEN.


It is up to the liberals if they want to listen.


FOR ME, I prefer to listen - that's why I am here reading Greg Sargent - and reading the crap the liberals write.


I gain a great deal of confidence in my ideas after reading the liberals.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 15, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Liar-still:

I shall now demonstrate against you the spectacular and wonderous "IGNORE FEATURE" that I have had installed at great cost into my own brain ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

"I'll miss you, wbgonne. And, frankly, I'll miss you, too. Ethan. And bernielatham, and Sue Kzoo and ScottC3, and Quarterback, and JakeD2. And little Liam, I think I'll miss you most of all!"

Did somebody die?

Posted by: wbgonne | October 15, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Given that the University of Arizona has a very highly regarded Physics Department, I'd give McClung a plus on that.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | October 15, 2010 3:04 PM | Report abuse

It's so pathetic.

Dems acn't crow about 9.6& unemployment and a stagnant economy, so create straw men to distract attention.

First, there's nothing illegal going on.

Dems also have groups set up under the same type of frame work.

To charge guilty until you prove yourself innocent in McCarthyism, pure and simple.

Even the New York Tiomes says this is ridiculous and without any factual basis.

It's being done to gin up the idiot, far left base.

Obama lost the independents.

All he has left is the Dem hard core demoralized base...union members, minorities, lefties.

This is just red meat to the Left to rouse them out of their pot smoke stupor and get them to teh voting booth.

News Flash:

The election's already baked in the cake.

This sleaze just cements Obama's image as a combination of the incompetence of Carter combined with the worst of Nixon.

Posted by: drjcarlucci | October 15, 2010 3:04 PM | Report abuse

@STFR: "FOR ME, I prefer to listen - that's why I am here reading Greg Sargent - and reading the crap the liberals write."

Then I don't think listen means what you think it means.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 15, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Jake,

IIRC, Jack Ryan was trailing Barack Obama by about 20 points even before the divorce papers revealing the alleged "sex scandal" were made public.

But I agree that Obama's race for the Senate seat from Illinois was certainly made much easier by facing the wackadoo candidate from Maryland, Alan Keyes.

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 15, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Jake

Calm down - the liberals only got their idea about an "ignore button" because the country has decided to ignore Obama and the liberals.


You are right about Jack Ryan - he should have never left that race.


So what if he wanted kinky sex with some half-Borg alien who cares?


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 15, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Greg - It is two people, why don't you just ban them?

Kevin should stay, he may be delusional about certain things, but he is a "value added" commentator. This place just won’t be as good without him.

It wasn't long ago that you were upset that the Democrats wouldn't hold a vote on the tax cuts because, well, you know the reasons. I'm guessing they are the same reasons why you refuse to ban those two. Just do it, heck, they have openly stated that they want to kill your blog and STILL you refuse to do what is needed.

Posted by: PaciolisRevenge | October 15, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Without doubt, Save the Rainforest believes this argument has traction.
They have spent days trying to make a case about the left, from the right's point of view.

It must be awfully sensitive.

And, all that this argument has really done is jump the gum, should the GOP take a great number of seats.

For the next two years the media narrative will be "who really did buy Congress?".

If you thought Tea Partys were something to behold, wait until Americans find out where the money came from.

I think we will see Corporations being forced to pledge "no political money given in secret,never again" because consumers will understand they paid for these ads in the cost of their products.

Here's how that works "corporations pass through all costs to consumers". Afterall, that's the Right's message about corporations and taxes, these cost pass-throughs are the same.

When that coverage begins in earnest about the middle of December 2010 the pivot point will have been reached.

Then, 2012 will see another huge swing in the other direction.


Posted by: wmc418 | October 15, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Princess Bride reference!

Hello. I am Greg Sargent. You killed my comments section. Prepare to die.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | October 15, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

@wbgonne: "Did somebody die?"

Nope, I just won't be able to participate (much) in the comments, should Greg go to a Fix-style comments section. So I thought I'd go ahead and get my farewells in! ;)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 15, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

wbgonne:

DOROTHY: Goodbye, Tinman. Oh, don't cry! You'll rust so dreadfully. Here's your oil can.

TIN WOODSMAN: Now I know I've got a heart, 'cause it's breaking ...

DOROTHY: Goodbye, Lion. I know it isn't right, but I'm going to miss the way you used to hollar for help before you found your courage.

LION: I never would've found it if it hadn't been for you ...

DOROTHY: [to Scarecrow] I think I'm going to miss you most of all.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

TERRORISTSSS!!!!!!111111111!!!!!!!!

TALIBAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMMINENT ATTACKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!

What's that? It was just a flashlight?

Nevermind!

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/10/fox_news_five_minute_terrorist_attack_video_1.php

Anyone who watches F'd News is an idiot.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 15, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Greg:

"Resident non-trolls..."

Can you let me know if that includes me?

Posted by: ScottC3 | October 15, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Greg - PaciolisRevenge is just ONE person, why don't you just ban him /her?

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Kevin_Willis:

Well, before you go how about McClung. Do you know what she does at Raytheon?

Posted by: wbgonne | October 15, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

bearclaw1:

Because you love him, I will forgive that, ONCE! Say that again, and you are no longer my brother.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Liam, I think I'll miss you most of all!

;)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 15, 2010 2:55 PM

.................

Right back at you, and here's looking at you kid.

But we will always have Paris.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 3:18 PM | Report abuse

STRF,
You don't bother me. Think more than 3 or 4 people here take you seriously? I don't. You're a giant time-suck. Why would I read your comments? Insightful? No. Thought-provoking? Hardly. So why bother?

Posted by: cao091402 | October 15, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

wmc418 at 3:07 PM

Every trial balloon of an issue advanced in the past six months by Obama and the democrats has come crashing down.


This new one is just more of the same - the issue comes up, the FLAWS get pointed out and Obama drops it.


The problems with this as an ELECTION ISSUE are numerous -

- The democrats have done the SAME thing and WORSE - the democrats have pumped tens, hundreds of millions of dollars into the elections outside of the FEC candidate committees - for YEARS


- The Republicans are actually playing catch-up - they can't be blamed for that.


- Bill Clinton's record on this issue is HORRIBLE.


- The issue as a "good government" issue is valid against BOTH parties - so don't try to take partisan advantage of what the democrats are GUILTY OF - you look silly


- OBAMA did MORE TO WRECK campaign finance reform than anyone - by pulling out of the campaign finance system in 2008. If you know something about the subject, you know this is true.

- LASTLY - THIS IS JUST ANOTHER DECEPTION BY OBAMA - and the country is tired of his crap -


The country wants a straight-shooter. This Obama stuff is completely ridiculous


Obama is going to have to start to take RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE ECONOMY


A bunch of deceptions and lies is NOT going to help Obama.


I realize that you would PREFER TO HAVE A DECEPTION STAND WITHOUT A RESPONSE.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 15, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

ScottC3,

Troll is in the eye of the beholder.

(But sting is in the hand of the bee holder.)

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 15, 2010 3:20 PM | Report abuse

@wbgonne: "Well, before you go how about McClung. Do you know what she does at Raytheon?"

She's an engineer. What that means in a practical sense, I got no idea. I imagine if the race heats up any more, we'll find out just what she does. I notice that there's a Mike McClung who works at Raytheon, too. Husband, ya think? A little nepotism going on? Or perhaps they met on the job.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 15, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Jake,

I'm sensing another movie quote, but I can't place it. Please revert to Palpatine . . .

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 15, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

McClung speaks:

"Global warming exists. The question is, "Is man-caused global warming a significant factor in our environment?" I don't think so, and I am in good company with a number of other scientists. To understand why I believe this, we need to know a little about the physics of global warming.

We live on a relatively warm planet. If we didn't, then life could not exist on the earth. The background temperature of space is roughly 3 or 4 degrees Celsius above absolute zero, or about 270 degrees Celsius below the freezing point of water. If the earth was not near the sun (or some other star) the earth too would be very cold – basically the background temperature of space. But since the earth is near the sun (about 93 million miles away) we live on a relatively warm planet.

The temperature on the earth is also affected by our distance from the sun. Mercury and Venus are both closer to the sun, and their temperatures are much hotter than the earth. Mars, Jupiter, and the rest of the planets are further from the sun, and their temperatures are much colder than the earth. In fact, if the sun was just 1% closer to the earth, about 2% more energy would fall on the surface of the earth, and if the sun was just 1% further away, the earth would receive about 2% less solar energy. The earth would then be warmer or cooler respectively.

The amount of solar energy that falls on the earth also affects the temperature. It is colder in the winter than in the summer because less solar energy falls on the earth's surface in that hemisphere. The days are shorter in the winter. Also the sun is lower in the sky, so less light hits the ground directly.

So this leads me to my first rule on global warming: The number 1 factor contributing to global warming is the sun!"

What a rocket scientist!

Posted by: wbgonne | October 15, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Re: princess bride:

"Rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles."

A classic movie.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 15, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

McClung (R-Raytheon) on defense:

"I support the military. I will fight to make sure that they have the finances to do their job. I will support advanced technology that will aid in fewer civilian and military casualties. I believe that one of the best ways to prevent war is to be ready for it. Our military and police forces and other similar groups are the protectors of everything we hold dear in this country, so they need to be well supported with legislation and resources."

I will support ballistic missile defense. In this volatile world, I think it is extremely important that we reduce the threat of nuclear weapons. It is a fairytale dream to believe we can ever have a world without nuclear weapons again, but we can have a world where they are not as big of a threat, with an operational missile defense system. This technology must go on, not just for the sake of the United States, but for the world."

http://www.ruth4az.com/Issues/NationalSecurity.html

Posted by: wbgonne | October 15, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

@wbgonne: "What a rocket scientist!"

Indeed. I think I'm in love. At this point, I don't think there's an upset victory I'd like to see more than McClung over Rijalva.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 15, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

wmc418 at 3:07 PM

Every trial balloon of an issue advanced in the past six months by Obama and the democrats has come crashing down.


This new one is just more of the same - the issue comes up, the FLAWS get pointed out and Obama drops it.


The problems with this as an ELECTION ISSUE are numerous -

- The democrats have done the SAME thing and WORSE - the democrats have pumped tens, hundreds of millions of dollars into the elections outside of the FEC candidate committees - for YEARS


- The Republicans are actually playing catch-up - they can't be blamed for that.


- Bill Clinton's record on this issue is HORRIBLE.


- The issue as a "good government" issue is valid against BOTH parties - so don't try to take partisan advantage of what the democrats are GUILTY OF - you look silly


- OBAMA did MORE TO WRECK campaign finance reform than anyone - by pulling out of the campaign finance system in 2008. If you know something about the subject, you know this is true.

- LASTLY - THIS IS JUST ANOTHER DECEPTION BY OBAMA - and the country is tired of his crap -


The country wants a straight-shooter. This Obama stuff is completely ridiculous


Obama is going to have to start to take RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE ECONOMY


A bunch of deceptions and lies is NOT going to help Obama.


I realize that you would PREFER TO HAVE A DECEPTION STAND WITHOUT A RESPONSE.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 15, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

cao091402:

So, were you lying before about not reading his posts?

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 15, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Questionable cash and the Democrat Party sound like apartnership made in hell. timely deaths have provided for some great escapes, so now the are finger pointing at the Republican Party who has not been angels. The sad thing is until there is criminal penalties to punish such activities which must include lost of pensions and all benefits for the guilty parties then both sides continue to play the money game.

Posted by: phjesuswarrior7 | October 15, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

All, my vote for the most amazing moment at the Angle-Reid debate:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/10/the_contrast_between_reid_and.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | October 15, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Jake

Thank you for pointing that out - my computer was jammed for a moment before I could point that out.


Cao - if you are going to be obnoxious and say you aren't reading posts, PLEASE be doing just that.


You are like Obama - saying one thing and doing something very different. That is DECEPTION - THAT IS LYING.

But you are being rude - and lying in the middle of being rude.


It is not the color of your skin, but the content of your character.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 15, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

So this leads me to my first rule on global warming: The number 1 factor contributing to global warming is the sun!"

What a rocket scientist!

Posted by: wbgonne | October 15, 2010 3:23 PM |
................

Does she explain how the Ice Ages came about. Did the sun move further from our Planet, or was it the Earth that backed off a bit from the fire, to cool down. She talks excellent O'Donnell like nonsense.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

"At this point, I don't think there's an upset victory I'd like to see more than McClung over Rijalva."

Yeah, well you are the one who brought her up.

In any case, you say:

"She's an engineer. What that means in a practical sense, I got no idea. I imagine if the race heats up any more, we'll find out just what she does."

Seems very odd that isn't known already especially since Raytheon is one of the cornerstones of the Military-Industrial Complex. Conflict(s) of interest perhaps?

Posted by: wbgonne | October 15, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

I want to see more discussion on JOBS and the direction of the economy!!!

Posted by: SeniorVet | October 15, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

@wbgonne: "Yeah, well you are the one who brought her up."

Indeed. And she rocks. And, though we'll always have Paris, I'm afraid comparing O'Donnell to McClung is a bit of (say it with me, now) "false equivalency". In my opinion.

I hope she actually works on building rockets. Missiles, at least.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 15, 2010 3:38 PM | Report abuse

The Chamber Of Con Artists keeps pushing for to send more and more jobs to foreign countries. If you approve of that, then by all means vote against those Democrats that The Chamber Of Con Artists and Karl Rove are attacking.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Jake

Few liberals realize the actual influence of the Borg in the rise of Obama. And it really was a Borg-like move - to try to go back in history to make something happen that would influence world events in the future.


Few liberals realize that the half-Borg actually played a massive role in Obama's rise and Obama would probably still be in Springfield if it wasn't for the Borg.


I realize that many bloggers are experiencing their heads exploding right now. However - we can tell them now. Jeri Ryan, the actress who played the half-Borg Seven of Nine - brought down Jack Ryan.


So, yes, the Borg did go back into history, create the conditions for a smooth path for Obama to rise to power - otherwise no Obama in the Senate, and the NATION WOULD BE SAVED RIGHT NOW


Without Obama's health care plan, more people would be HIRED, and the recovery would be underway.

The WORLD would be a better place.


But it WAS the BORG - who did this to our country.


YES it was an intergalactic, time-traveling Borg which did this to our NATION.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 15, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Indeed. And she rocks. And, though we'll always have Paris, I'm afraid comparing O'Donnell to McClung is a bit of (say it with me, now) "false equivalency". In my opinion.

I hope she actually works on building rockets. Missiles, at least.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 15, 2010 3:38 PM |

........................

Two very different Candidates entirely.

One of them put Sean Hannity in her pocket,

And the other one took a job at Raytheon, to find her own Pocket Rocket.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

@Liam-still: "And the other one took a job at Raytheon, to find her own Pocket Rocket."

And now she has a rocket in her pocket, and it's read to roar.

To quote the artist-formerly-known-as-Prince-who-is-now-known-as-Prince-again.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 15, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Obviously this is a winner for democrats. There is a prima facia argument for fairness in this issue.

No matter how many times Clarence Thomas, Dick Armey or savetherainforest argues it, people aren't going to see giving cash to politicians as being equal to their freedom of speech. That's a terribly dangerous step. What's next? Paying people directly to vote for you is freedom of speech? Cash has never been equitable to expression in Constitutional matters.

The argument that a politician running for office and in position to be in charge of military funding, the budget, Constitutional amendments, etc should be able to take money from ANY source in the world, foreign or domestic just won't cut it with average Americans. And I can tell you one thing about AMericans. They don't trust politicians. And letting them get away with concealing their donors from the people they are charged with representing will not last.

And lastly, the tired argument that democrats and republicans both do it carries no water. Republicans get thousands of abortions a year, they smoke pot and they have gay sex in mens bathrooms but all of those issues have worked well for them for the past twenty years.

Posted by: mandrake | October 15, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

@Kevin - Every time I hear mention of CO'D, I think of that great line. I'm not a witch, I'm your wife!

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | October 15, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Raytheon, among other things makes missiles. They are also involved in SDI stuff in Tucson.

I believe they are also the first defense contractor to actually put a "laser" on a shark.

By by Raul. Shouldn't advocate boycotting your own state.

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | October 15, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

"people aren't going to see giving cash to politicians as being equal to their freedom of speech. That's a terribly dangerous step. What's next? Paying people directly to vote for you is freedom of speech? Cash has never been equitable to expression in Constitutional matters. The argument that a politician running for office and in position to be in charge of military funding, the budget, Constitutional amendments, etc should be able to take money from ANY source in the world, foreign or domestic just won't cut it with average Americans. And I can tell you one thing about AMericans. They don't trust politicians. And letting them get away with concealing their donors from the people they are charged with representing will not last."

Well said.

Posted by: wbgonne | October 15, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Sargent, you're really a spineless little shill of insect for the Democratic Party, aren't you?

Posted by: squid1 | October 15, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

"The Chamber Of Con Artists keeps pushing for to send more and more jobs to foreign countries. If you approve of that, then by all means vote against those Democrats that The Chamber Of Con Artists and Karl Rove are attacking."

Then aren't they doing Jerry "we need welfare for everybody not jobs" Brown's bidding?

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | October 15, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

So, I guess we need Fox News, all the scary secret foreign money and Karl Rove to tell us that unemployment is 9.6%.

At this poiint the Dems are like a desparate animal caught in a trap trying to chew it's leg off.

Posted by: drjcarlucci | October 15, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

bearclaw:

"Troll is in the eye of the beholder."

Exactly. Hence the question.

Posted by: ScottC3 | October 15, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

"

"If you really think that JOBS and the economy today are not the top issues (rather than "secret cash funding attack ads") you are sure going to be shocked on November 3rd!"

Are you as dense as Halperin? Big money (domestic and foreign) from the CofC being funneled to the GOP connects directly to outsourcing of American jobs and the overall stability of this economy. If you can't figure that out then there is no help for guys like you and Mark.

Posted by: filmnoia | October 15, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse "

the 150 plus members of the india caucas, 100 plus of which are dems is why india takes our jobs...
sheila jackson lee plus thers travel to india and are treated as gods...
given any vice they desire...
so before you just blame Republicans, even with the majority, the dems did nothing to stop or change the practice to benefit Americans...
I get it that corporations that go global have directors that want part of the work to go to their homelands...
but they have gone too far and taken too many jobs away from Americans...
time to move part of the manufacturing or assembly process back to the USA...
also time to force companies to hire a diverse workforce to work and learn beside visa labor holders working in the USA...

Posted by: DwightCollins | October 15, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

mandrake wrote:

"Obviously this is a winner for democrats. There is a prima facia argument for fairness in this issue."

Then you will be hard pressed to explain the day after the elections why the winner did not win for them. No doubt you will say either that 1) they ran out of time, or 2) the voters don't know what is best for them.

Elections are almost always about the party in power, not the scariness of the party who replaces them. Saying "but the Dems will do worse", would not have worked in 2008 for the GOP, and using it in 2010 for the Dems won't either.

The last chance was the tax cuts, to force a vote to define where they stand, but they completely blew it. We'll see what those same wizards in the party are saying the day after the election. "well maybe we should have had a vote after all".

It's almost worth it to get rid of Harry Reid, but no, not really.

Posted by: 54465446 | October 15, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

"ready to roar"m I mean to say. Not "read to roar".

To quote Charlie Brown: "Good grief."

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 15, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

@54465446: "Saying 'but the Dems will do worse', would not have worked in 2008 for the GOP, and using it in 2010 for the Dems won't either."

That makes entirely too much sense. You don't expect politicians to listen to that kind of non-nonsense, do you?

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 15, 2010 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Obama is dealing the "Guilty until proven Innocent" card from the bottom of the deck...This pretender to the Presidency should be impeached just for being dumber than Jimmy Carter OR George Bush. Maybe he purchased his Harvard JD with Kenyan clamshells...

The DemoRats have been taking foreign money since the Clintons' first run.

Posted by: MoonDoggie | October 15, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Then aren't they doing Jerry "we need welfare for everybody not jobs" Brown's bidding?

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | October 15, 2010 4:00 PM

..............
That was so 1995, as Kevin admitted to.

If you want to see how a modern Marxist Governor operated, just check out Palin's brief stint as Alaska's very own Hugo Chavez.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

@Troll: "I believe they are also the first defense contractor to actually put a 'laser' on a shark."

"By by Raul."

What can hope. His district is gerrymandered the most marvelous shade of deep, deep blue.

"Shouldn't advocate boycotting your own state."

Exactly. I'd have no sympathy for a Republican advocating that folks boycott his own state because it started some sort of State-based healthcare coverage or raised income taxes. You advocate that business and tourists boycott your state, you do not represent your state. There's another way to make your point that doesn't potentially take jobs and drive business out of your community.

You don't have to agree with everything your governor or state legislature does. However, once you start advocating boycotts of your own state, you aren't representing the people in your state. No matter what kind of circular logic you use to talk yourself into thinking that you do.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 15, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

ScottC3,

I consider the "troll" label pretty useless. And I don't support banning people. To quote Jon Stewart, "I may not agree with you, but I don't think you are Hitler."

I can ignore commenters I find repetitive or uninteresting, and if the thread is dominated by such comments, it doesn't diminish my life to go away.

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 15, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

I would advocate boycotting my own state if it were to take away a woman's right to medical privacy.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Its pretty hypocritical for Obama to complain about foreign influence on US elections when his party's candidate for Senate from Illinois is a dual-citizen and is undoubtedly collecting campaign contributions from Greek nationals.

Posted by: Illini | October 15, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

I think Hispanic residents of Arizona have every right to advocate the Boycotting of their home state, until it stops profiling them.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 4:30 PM | Report abuse

"If you want to see how a modern Marxist Governor operated, just check out Palin's brief stint as Alaska's very own Hugo Chavez."

is it bothering you that she's more of a Trotskyite?

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | October 15, 2010 4:31 PM | Report abuse

kevin wrote:

"That makes entirely too much sense. You don't expect politicians to listen to that kind of non-nonsense, do you?"

I certainly don't expect Greg to listen since he's been pushing this argument with all his might for more than a week.

It's like you have a kid who you think SHOULD be a great pitcher because he's 6'7" and 275 and looks intimidating as heck on the mound. BUT in actual games he throws big looping curves and sliders that don't break, and can't find the strike zone. Still, you keep running him out there until he costs you your manging job because why can't everybody see what I see in him?

Posted by: 54465446 | October 15, 2010 4:31 PM | Report abuse

@Liam-still: "If you want to see how a modern Marxist Governor operated, just check out Palin's brief stint as Alaska's very own Hugo Chavez."

She neither nationalized the oil businesses, nor gave the workers completely shared ownership of the means of production. As such, neither Hugo Chavez or Zombie Karl Marx approve of Mrs. Palin.

Plus, the money goes back to the citizens, to spend as they choose. Which means they can waste it, and spend it on things not conducive to the creation and maintenance of the worker's paradise. Also a no-no. The government should keep the money, and spend it on infrastructure, and only give cash (in the form of government vouchers for food or retraining or what have you) to the poor.

Though they do get a portion of the profits of the energy industry operating in the state. That's pretty sweet, but I'm not sure that'd even begin to cut it for Karl Marx, or even Chris Coons.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 15, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

I think Conservative voters in Alaska have every right to urge the boycotting of their own state, until the Welfare State, that Sarah Palin established, is abolished.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Kevin,

Check out how much more money Palin took from Washington than her state sent there. Of course Ted Stevens, and The Murkowski Dynasty were complicit in helping her to rip of the tax payers of other states, who send more to Washington than they get back.

Take a look at how many red states, with two Republican Senators each, get back much more from DC, that they contribute, and contrast that with all the Anti Washington diatribes constantly coming out of the mouths of those very same freeloaders when they return back home to their Welfare States.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

@Liam: "I think Conservative voters in Alaska have every right to urge the boycotting of their own state, until the Welfare State, that Sarah Palin established, is abolished."

I hope you aren't holding your breath. People generally don't agitate for money to be taken away from them. ;)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 15, 2010 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Kevin,

One thing you never have to worry about is that a garrulous Irishman will be caught holding his breath.

It was a bit of satire my boy. I am a distant cousin of both Oscar Wilde and Brendan Behan.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 4:48 PM | Report abuse

@Liam-still: "Take a look at how many red states, with two Republican Senators each, get back much more from DC, that they contribute"

So, what you're saying is that Republicans are much better at getting money for their states than Democrats. Hmmm.

So, if folks want more federal dollars going to their states, then they had better start electing Republicans, pronto!

That's good to know. Especially in the midst of a recession.

:P

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 15, 2010 4:48 PM | Report abuse

We Blue State can no longer afford to carry you freeloading Red States.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 4:53 PM | Report abuse

@Liam-still: "It was a bit of satire my boy. I am a distant cousin of both Oscar Wilde and Brendan Behan."

What noble lineage!

Apropos of almost nothing, have you ever read the comic book (or phone-book sized compendiums thereof) known as Cerebus? He features a full compendium that's essentially nothing but his re-telling of the death of Oscar Wilde, only happening in a fiction pre-history and featuring a talking aardvark warrior who does almost nothing in the entire story. Except at the end.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 15, 2010 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Red State Republican Politicians are mostly a Cabal Of Federal Funding High Stakes Grifters.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 4:57 PM | Report abuse

@Liam: "We Blue State can no longer afford to carry you freeloading Red States."

Then you had best hope you blue states carry the day in November. Otherwise, we red states will be dining on pork and angry rhetoric for at least 2 years!

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 15, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Kevin,

I have not read it. In fact I was not even aware of it, until you mentioned it. I will see if I can find it. I have not been doing a lot of reading in recent years, because my vision has been deteriorating.

Are you familiar with Wilde's last words, before he died? They are considered to be the greatest exit line ever uttered by a dying person.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 5:04 PM | Report abuse

"It's like you have a kid who you think SHOULD be a great pitcher because he's 6'7" and 275 and looks intimidating as heck on the mound. BUT in actual games he throws big looping curves and sliders that don't break, and can't find the strike zone."

For some reason, this reminds me of an extra-inning game years ago, when the Giants ran out of relief pitchers and put Dave Kingman on the mound. Look out!

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 15, 2010 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Liam still:

Hey nice little chat with Kevin, but you totally avoided me on the facts. I asked you why getting the oil companies to cough up increased royalties was not a huge accomplishment, since in a simialr area the Mining Law of 1872 is STILL the law of the land.

This means that in the mining of gold, silver, and copper the US gets no royalties whatsoever and has to sell public lands to those working a claim for $5.00 an acre. Taking on any commodity based corporation is a tough task, and getting them to yield coin is a pretty strong accomplishment.

Posted by: 54465446 | October 15, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse

in the short-term: yes. beyond the new year: NOOOOOO.

in the medium and long run obama is announcing open-season for harsh republican attacks on dems, even those attacks which beforehand they could argue were somehow "out-of-bounds" because they allegedly prey on fears about foreigners and foreign influence.

Simply put, if Obama sees democracy threatened by trace amounts of foreign money that ends up paying for a few more issue spots that represent a tiny fraction of inputs into the public deabte, then it's equally threatened by cabinet-level hand-wringing over some rando's decision to exercise his right to free speech by burning a copy of the koran and the unauthorized and illegal presence of 15 million overwhelming poor and uneducated foreigners who demand the right to vote in American elections.

In reality, Dinesh D'souza's musing about the origins and substance of what fundamentally drives the president's thinking now becomes a matter for urgent public concern, debate, and Obama-esque levels of rank speculation.

Posted by: dummypants | October 15, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse

Or he throws a fastball at a hundred miles an hour, but it is so straight, and right down the middle that it frequently leaves the park faster than it came in.

The Cubs had one of those guys. Kyle Farnsworth, or some similar sounding name.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Liam-still: "Either that wallpaper goes, or I do."

I love Cerebus, although some (unfairly, I think) consider Dave Simm and misogynist. Over the course of writing Cerebus, he increasing developed both a fusion theology that began to dominate the book, and shaped a matriarchal world that certainly could be described as misogynistic. Of course, all the warrior-women are telepathic and are led by huge female aardvark, so I'm not sure how literally it should be interpreted. Anyhoo, the earlier volumes are the best, and though the Oscar Wilde character features now and again, the odd retelling of his death is in Melmoth.

http://www.amazon.com/Melmoth-Cerebus-6-Dave-Sim/dp/0919359108/

As someone who has almost done it (I'm shy two volumes), it's pricey to read the whole extended run. And I say the early volumes are the best, but they are much better if you were into comic books (or Conan) at some point, as there are a lot of references to comics, especially Conan and 80s comic books (Elric, X-Men, Elfquest, Moon Knight, to name a few). Later volumes are better if you are into Oscar Wilde and F. Scott Fitzgerald. And then theology a religious philosophy.

Sorry your vision is deteriorating. Saddest part of the Diary of Samuel Pepy's is where he talks about his fading eyesight. What more might have we learned of the time, had his eyes stayed strong? Corrective laser surgery or something? I've still got 20/20ish vision (not in one eye, but I haven't had it measured recently, so I don't know how off it is). But I'm 41 . . . I've always had extremely good eyesight, so I'm not looking forward to getting any older. ;)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 15, 2010 5:20 PM | Report abuse

NEWS FLASH to Greg Sargent: free speech

and that's precisely what 3rd-party issue ads are: free speech. the idea that free speech needs to cracked down on the closer you get to an election is 180 degrees removed from what our nation's highest court, liberal-progressive and conservative incarnations alike, has declared to be the spirit and purpose of the words of the 1st amendment.

Posted by: dummypants | October 15, 2010 5:22 PM | Report abuse

NEWS FLASH to Greg Sargent: free speech


and that's precisely what 3rd-party issue ads are: free speech. the idea that free speech needs to cracked down on the closer you get to an election is 180 degrees removed from what our nation's highest court, liberal-progressive and conservative incarnations alike, has declared to be the spirit and purpose of the words of the 1st amendment.

Posted by: dummypants | October 15, 2010 5:23 PM | Report abuse

54465446,

Sorry. I did not mean to ignore you. You are assuming that is my stance, when it is not. If you go back and read my colligue with Kevin, you will see that all I was doing was exposing the hypocrisy of Sarah Palin, when she goes around complaining about Democrats squeezing big business, and catering to a sense of entitlement by the working classes, when she did exactly the same thing, during her brief sting as governor.

She was one of those who complained about President Obama having leaned on BP to set aside a recovery fund, to pay for all the damages they did in the Gulf.

If you do a Google search, you will find that she put the squeeze on Big Oil, when she was governor, to cough up an additional five billion dollars, for her to send out checks to the very small population of Alaska.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 5:24 PM | Report abuse

NEWS FLASH to Greg Sargent: free speech does not "fund elections". Election finance IS 100% public. If you are that confused on the basics its small wonder you end up in far, far, left field.


and that's precisely what 3rd-party issue ads are: free speech. the idea that free speech needs to cracked down on the closer you get to an election is 180 degrees removed from what our nation's highest court, liberal-progressive and conservative incarnations alike, has declared to be the spirit and purpose of the words of the 1st amendment.

Posted by: dummypants | October 15, 2010 5:25 PM | Report abuse

No one is taking away anyone's free speech rights. They can talk their heads off. The Washington Post is a business, so it does not have to provide a platform to anyone, that they do not wish to.

Rush Limbaugh will not say a single word over the air, unless he gets paid millions for doing so. That is not free speech. It is Big Fat Fee Speech. He screens out which callers get on the air. Go complain about that.

Greg has the same right as The Big Fatpillbilly, to screen out who he does not want on his site, just as much as those right wing talk radio guys have.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Liam-still:

Palin is being perfectly consistent: she had all the leverage in that situation (oil in Alaska cannot be drilled from London or Dubai or Tennesee AND the oil was in the possession of the State of Alaska).

Obama has no leverage. The federal government does not possess the wealth that will be needed to pay big government's bills. Rather, it's rests, to the extent it has not been realized because it depends on future productivity of the citizens, in the individualized hands of millions of citizens, businesses and other institutions. The most Obama can do is print money which actually destroys wealth. That is not much in the way of cards to be holding - and leverage is important because politics is the art of the possible.

If you understand things in the simplest terms possible, the world becomes nothing but hypocrisy.

Posted by: dummypants | October 15, 2010 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Rush Limbaugh will not say a single word over the air, unless he gets paid millions for doing so. That is not free speech. It is Big Fat Fee Speech
***********

As we all know, you are not talking about "free speech" in anything like its constitutional meaning. ANYTHING.

Besides, your statement is demonstrably false. Rush Limbaugh had a radio show for a full decade before he ever earned more than middle class earnings.

Posted by: dummypants | October 15, 2010 5:52 PM | Report abuse

Rush Limbaugh will not say a single word over the air, unless he gets paid millions for doing so. That is not free speech. It is Big Fat Fee Speech
***********

As we all know, you are not talking about "free speech" in anything like its constitutional meaning. ANYTHING.

Besides, your statement is demonstrably false. Rush Limbaugh had a radio show for a full decade before he ever earned more than middle class earnings.

Posted by: dummypants | October 15, 2010 5:52 PM | Report abuse

And Plumline has the same rights as The Golden Microphone Pill Jockey has to screen who gets heard from and who does not.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 6:04 PM | Report abuse

Obama leveraged BP into setting aside funds to pay for the damages and restoration in the Gulf.

The Welfare Queen of Alaska leveraged the Oil Companies to pay an additional five billion dollars per year, on top of what had been originally agreed to, just so Sarah could buy votes, by mailing out free money to every Alaskan.

At the time she did it, Alaska was already running an annual revenues surplus.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 6:09 PM | Report abuse

've always had extremely good eyesight, so I'm not looking forward to getting any older. ;)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 15, 2010 5:20 PM

......................

The only good thing that I can say about growing old and feeble is; so far it beats the alternative, and each day that passes, the alternative keeps closing the distance.

"Fastened to a dying animal" Yeats.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 15, 2010 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Ruth McClung has fired up constituents in this district because she has been visible and worked hard for more than the past year to meet people and gather support. Congressman Raul Grijalva has been too busy trying to make national headlines with numerous poorly thought out statements that hurt his constituents. He tried to position himself to get appointed Interior Secretary in late 2008 just after being re-elected. People of this district are tired of politicians like him who are working for their own agenda - themselves. His defeat will be lesson that Tip O'Neil's old adage that "all politics is local" is still true. Also, his defeat will serve as an important lesson for all elected officials that your first job is to serve your own constituents, the people who elected you.

Posted by: gregfaulhaber | October 16, 2010 2:11 AM | Report abuse

That's a distortion, dummy. The call has been for transparency, not shut down issue advertising. It's simple. If Americans for Puppies, Kittens and other Cute Animals wants to run ads attacking Joe Sestak for being an Eagles fan, fine. Just say who's paying for it.

The best counter attack I've seen is from JakeD2, who talks about Obama's campaign. Of course, $25M not known out of $800M is 3%. I'd settle for an equal accounting from Crossroads GPS. 97% of their donors.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | October 16, 2010 10:12 AM | Report abuse

It was actually over $103 million in UNCODED campaign contributions for Obama's 2008 run. Under the law, Crossroads GPS is NOT obligated to disclose donors -- Obama was -- see the difference?

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=n00009638

YOU don't get to "settle" for violating First Amendment rights!

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 18, 2010 10:35 AM | Report abuse

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