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Is the Dem base awakening?

DNC spokesman Brad Woodhouse sends over some new, as-yet-unreleased details about the DNC's $16 million fundraising haul in September that Dems will be touting today as proof that the "enthusiasm gap" is closing.

* The DNC pulled in "the most low-dollar donations of any month since the end of the campaign."

* The September haul included "over 50 percent more low-dollar donations than August."

* And "97 percent of all donations were $200 or less."

Drawing conclusions about the midterm elections from these numbers seems like a tricky business. But one thing is clear: Dems now seem heavily committed to pushing back against the enthusiasm gap idea as process story.

Both the White House and Dems will undertake a concerted effort in the days ahead to challenge the deeply-ingrained media narrative about the lackluster Dem base, and to make the case that the Dem base is awakening, in hopes of turning that into a self-fulfilling prophesy.

By Greg Sargent  | October 4, 2010; 11:38 AM ET
Categories:  2010 elections  
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Next: The 'magic' of the Supreme Court's rightward shift

Comments

I'll make the obvious comment again, at the risk of it sounding naive:

even if the GOP continues to outspend the Dems 7-1, if the Dems can get out the vote and people understand that each vote counts, then the Dems will do OK on Nov 2.

Money influences elections, but an electorate that is energized can push against that. There may well be some surprises in 4 weeks.

Posted by: BGinCHI | October 4, 2010 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Yes, we are.

Yes we can!!!

OT, as predicted by Dems/Liberals for months:

Tea Party = GOP Establishment

But Mr. DeMint’s smile may have vanished by morning. During a nationally televised debate on Fox News Sunday, Mr. Paul said that if he were elected to the Senate, he would support Senator Mitch McConnell, also from Kentucky, to keep his job as Republican leader.

Pressed to say whether he would choose him over Mr. DeMint, Mr. Paul said that he would vote for whomever Republicans chose as their leader and that he assumed it would be Mr. McConnell.

It was one more sign that no matter how devoted Mr. Paul is to Tea Party principles, he may be forced to yield periodically to some realities of the old-school politics that he denounces.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/04/us/politics/04paul.html

Some of them will still win, but the Tea Party is just the same ol' greedy corporate welfare GOP. Been there, done that.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 4, 2010 11:46 AM | Report abuse

There may be some evidence here, though of course these polls are shaky.

That's my point: the polls are measuring volatility. And that volatility is being created by an increasingly frustrated Dem base and the realization amongst Independents that many of the GOP-TP candidates are CooCoo for CocoaPuffs.

Posted by: BGinCHI | October 4, 2010 11:46 AM | Report abuse

By here I mean here:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/10/that_weird_newsweek_poll.php#more?ref=fpblg

Posted by: BGinCHI | October 4, 2010 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Renew The Bush Tax Cuts For Fat Cats, Now!

This message has been brought to you by:

Concerned Trophy Wives For Alimony.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 4, 2010 11:54 AM | Report abuse

IDK.

Jane Hamsher just gave me like eleventy reasons not to vote for the coward Democrats in November and it starts from the top down. And any push back is hippy punching so don't even go there you corporatists.

Did you see how giddy Joe Scarborough was this morning to have Jane "queen of the firebaggers" Hamsher on to promote herself and the rifts in the Democratic party and how she almost giggled when Joe asked her if she wanted Dems to control Congress. Expect the push for a primary from the left to start soon from FDL and Openleft and a couple others that are in the all or nothing crowd. It's all those that hang out there can talk about now and it's turned into a topic frenzy in almost every thread with their leader Jane charging through on her technicolor tide-eye pony.

She's developed quite the pattern. Attack, attack, attack, then feign victim. It's the same tactic the right uses. Only diff is the right claims to be helpless real Muricans while she claims to be a defenseless hippy.

Have at me wbgonne...

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 4, 2010 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Re: Republicans Opposition to A Minimum Wage Level:

Democrats should frame the debate as:

Republicans Waging Class Warfare On The Poorest Workers In America.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 4, 2010 11:57 AM | Report abuse

GOP: We're Bringin' Sweatshops Back!

"There's one good way to bring jobs back to America. Forced labor and indentured servitude. Elect me, Joe Miller, and I promise to grow America's workforce by employing America's children. Whether they like it or not. Vote for me. Oh yeah, and uhh, VALUES, yeah that's it, VALUES. Winkywink. I approve this message."

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 4, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Republicans Are Feeling Nostalgic, For The Free Labor Plantation Days Of Yore.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 4, 2010 12:02 PM | Report abuse

"Work harder Billy!" *snap*

"I see you slacking Mary Ann... What's that? Your fingers are bleeding? Well, we'll just find somebody who wants your job. Back to work!" *snap snap*

"Ain't they cute?"

"I approve this message."

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 4, 2010 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Excuse me--Don't we criticize China for their sweat shop wages and child labor?

And now we're going to join them?

I guess that's one way to become competitive with China. Try to out-China China? We call their practices human abuse.

And now we're going to join them?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 4, 2010 12:06 PM | Report abuse

@BGinChi: "even if the GOP continues to outspend the Dems 7-1, if the Dems can get out the vote and people understand that each vote counts, then the Dems will do OK on Nov 2."

I agree. At a certain level, all the extra spending becomes flotsam and jetsam. There needs to be spending to a certain level, for the cup to be filled. Once the cup runneth over, it's going to be other elements--boots on the ground, folks organizing buses to get people to the polls, folks standing out on corners waving signs--"You Do Know Today is Election Day, Right?"--becomes as relevant. A friend making a date with a friend to go down and vote.

@12Bar: "Excuse me--Don't we criticize China for their sweat shop wages and child labor?"

I don't think there's a broad call to return to sweat shop wages and child labor. Some folks may (rightly or wrongly) believe that lower minimum wage laws--or none--will do nothing to impact wages negatively in a first world country. Or be a net positive, with the "opening the door" and the training and the paid-internships or what have you. And if anyone has actually advocated repealing or modifying child labor laws, I haven't heard or read it (yet). Who is actually--not via extrapolation--pushing for the repeal of child labor laws? Is that really a Joe Miller position?

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 4, 2010 12:14 PM | Report abuse


Excuse me--Don't we criticize China for their sweat shop wages and child labor?

And now we're going to join them?

I guess that's one way to become competitive with China. Try to out-China China? We call their practices human abuse.

And now we're going to join them?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 4, 2010 12:06 PM
..................

Republicans really just pretend to be against foreign sweatshops. Watch what they do, not what they say. They granted tax incentives to American Corporations, to outsource their production facilities to countries that pay a dollar or less per day, with no environmental protection standards.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 4, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

"Is the Dem base awakening?"

I'd say definitely yes - based on anecdotal evidence here in SoCal. I think we are stuck with Boxer again and are doomed to be governed by Moonbeam (again). Californians are fed up but aren't ready to switch to the GOP. Dems and liberals I know are not particularly politically active but are worried enough about the national trends they hear to assure me they are going to vote Democratic. Allred's (second) dirty trick appears to be working.

Posted by: sbj3 | October 4, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Are we saying that eliminating minimum wages will lower wages? Or are we saying that wages will go up? Or are we saying that wages will stay the same?

If eliminating minimum wage laws will raise wages or keep them the same, the GOP would not be in favor of eliminating those laws.

Obviously, the elimination of those laws would result in lower wages. The right question is this: how low would they go? How low would they go in Mississippi, for example, which is already a low wage state? How different would those wages be from China's sweat shop wages?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 4, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

"Allred's (second) dirty trick appears to be working."

Oooh, smart of that Allred to plant an illegal in the Whitman houshold some 9 years ago and steal all the mail from the Social Security Admin questioning the SS# veracity.

How clever of Allred to know that a woman who has never voted in her life was going to eventually run for Gov in 9 years?

Posted by: bmcchgo | October 4, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

OT, re: Scott McAdams, this is awesome:

One of the best applause lines in his stump speech as is that Miller "wants to repeal the 20th Century."

http://www.anchoragepress.com/articles/2010/09/30/news/doc4ca3b1a5312be052925266.txt

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 4, 2010 12:23 PM | Report abuse

sbj is right (man, I don't get to say that very often).

Once Indys and Dems see what the alternative is going to bring them in reality, close to election time, they're going to get nervous and vote.

The voters and GOP candidates are like kids and horses: you want them from an imaginary perspective but in reality once you get them they're expensive, they don't know how to take care of themselves, and they sh*t all over the place.

Posted by: BGinCHI | October 4, 2010 12:28 PM | Report abuse

@Greg Sargent,

I'm sure you are on the phone to the Miller campaign about child labor laws. Go, Greg, go...inquiring minds want to know.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 4, 2010 12:28 PM | Report abuse


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/economyunemployment/"Allred's (second) dirty trick appears to be working."

Oooh, smart of that Allred to plant an illegal in the Whitman houshold some 9 years ago and steal all the mail from the Social Security Admin questioning the SS# veracity.

How clever of Allred to know that a woman who has never voted in her life was going to eventually run for Gov in 9 years?

Posted by: bmcchgo

..................

Yep. Very prescient on the part of Gloria, almost as prescient as was President Obama's teenage Mom, when she made sure, on the day she gave birth to her son in 1961, in Kenya, to put a notice in the Honolulu paper, announcing the birth, and claiming that it took place in Hawaii.

Amazing how she figured out, back in 1961 that her newborn son would become the first elected African American President, if she just made sure to document that he was born in Hawaii.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 4, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

its Aldridge, and yes she gave the same $150 contribution to the Brown campaign that I did; obviously a major contributor as claimed by Ms Whttman. What was stupid of Ms. Whitman was to underestimate Ms. Aldridge's skills as a prepared lawyer when she gave Ms Whittman numerous opportunities to retract her claim that neither her or husband ever received notice from the govt about her help's social security number.dumb, dumb, dumb

Posted by: leichtman1 | October 4, 2010 12:31 PM | Report abuse

If the President's family had enough foresight to plant those birth announcements in Hawaii newspapers 50 years ago, who's to doubt that Gloria Allred would plant an illegal in Whitman's house only 9 years ago?

Posted by: pragmaticstill | October 4, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

OOOPS ... sorry KW ... is that calling rightwingers stoopid again?

Posted by: pragmaticstill | October 4, 2010 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Uh oh! This is bad news. Us big, evil, TEA PARTY, corporate, bigoted, Republican donors better start writing bigger checks.

I'll make mine $10.00 this time.

Posted by: battleground51 | October 4, 2010 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Just Miller? The Tea Party/ GOP is busy Building a Bridge to the 19th Century.

Posted by: leichtman1 | October 4, 2010 12:34 PM | Report abuse

All, new Adam Serwer post on the rightward shift of the Supreme Court:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/10/the_magic_of_the_supreme_court.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | October 4, 2010 12:35 PM | Report abuse

@BG: "Once Indys and Dems see what the alternative is going to bring them in reality, close to election time, they're going to get nervous and vote."

I should add, though, that - at least since 1980 and the Terminator's special election - I've never actually seen California Dems get nervous in the least. It's a long-shot, but a victory by Fiorina would be an upset of epic proportions here in Cali.

Posted by: sbj3 | October 4, 2010 12:35 PM | Report abuse

OT, Rubio sketch factor bounces up another notch...

The unusual payment to the bank again raises one of his biggest liabilities on the campaign trail: his use of political donations to cover personal expenses.

Even as Rubio surged to the front of the Senate race as well as the national party's starring lineup, he has been forced to defend personal expenses billed to his state Republican Party-issued credit card and two political committees he started with his wife.

"It looks bad," Ben Wilcox, a board member of Common Cause Florida, a government watchdog group, said of the 2002 campaign check to the bank.

"It looks like he's making payment for his car out of his campaign expense. I certainly haven't heard of this happening before. It seems to be a pattern with him in which he plays fast and loose with the rules and tries to go back and justify it once it's pointed out."

Rubio frequently billed personal expenses on the Republican Party credit card in 2007 and 2008 when he served as House speaker, from a $10.50 movie ticket to more than $10,000 in hotel rooms for a family reunion. Rubio says he sent checks to American Express to cover all of his personal expenses, but he has refused to release his credit card statements for 2004 and 2005.

After The Miami Herald wrote about his 2007 and 2008 credit card bills, he acknowledged double-billing $2,400 in plane flights and paid the party back. "There are some things Rubio can afford to buy, for everything else there's the Republican Party credit card," sneered the Crist campaign in a new Web ad.

An audit of the party's books completed last month accused Crist of taking personal trips to Disney World and New York on the party's dime. Crist has dismissed the audit's findings, arguing that the GOP is trying to destroy him in retaliation for leaving the party five months ago. The audit cleared Rubio and other current party leaders of any wrongdoing.

Last month, Rubio's campaign brushed off allegations by Tampa political consultant Chris Ingram that Rubio told him he once charged between $4,000 and $5,000 to the party's American Express card to redo his kitchen floor.

Rubio's campaign declined to say whether Ingram's recollection was inaccurate...

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/10/03/v-print/1855933/payment-in-2002-raises-questions.html

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 4, 2010 12:38 PM | Report abuse

I bet Rubio wishes the election were tomorrow, Ethan.

More dirt gonna come out, esp with two opponents dogging him.

Posted by: BGinCHI | October 4, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

@sbj,

What is the reaction to Meg Whitman's illegal maid in southern California? I hear that right wing talk radio is really banging on her. Is that true? What about criticism from the left?

In northern CA, there is abundant criticism, but that is to be expected because of the high % of Democrats.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 4, 2010 12:43 PM | Report abuse

It's Allred. Y'all are really missing the point. Her case is without merit and the only reason she publicized this was to subvert the electoral process. (Just like she did in CA's last governor's race.)

"I think this is absolutely unthinkable. Let me tell you what you've done. Three things: One, you're getting your client deported by putting a big neon sign -- 'hey, I'm here illegally, I signed documents falsely, and I've done that under penalty of perjury saying that this is my Social Security number.' The second thing is I think your inferences from this Social Security document, I think you got it all wrong. I actually think it helps Meg Whitman and her husband because I think that's the more reasonable inference, and you'd get barbecued if you took it to court. And, finally, on the eve of an election, to raise something like this, which has the possibility of smearing unfairly, calling someone a liar and subverting the electoral process. So, all three things, and you know I like you, but I think all three things are rotten."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/10/02/van_susteren_to_allred_this_is_almost_delusional.html

Posted by: sbj3 | October 4, 2010 12:45 PM | Report abuse

@12bar: "What is the reaction to Meg Whitman's illegal maid in southern California?"

The reaction is that Whitman should not have fired her maid and that she should have helped her obtain legal status. (Repubs aren't going to vote for Moonbeam so it doesn't really matter what they think.)

Personally, I'm not sure I understand what people would have had Whitman do differently. Seems to me it's a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. I'm not a big Whitman fan but I don't blame her for a thing here. Anyone living in SoCal understands that illegal employment is simply unavoidable.

Posted by: sbj3 | October 4, 2010 12:52 PM | Report abuse

@sbj,

I am interested in the GOP reaction to the maid & Meg. I hear talk radio is realling beating up on her. I find that a little hard to believe. Is it true?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 4, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

correction: I hear talk radio is really beating up on her.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 4, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse

@12bar: "I hear talk radio is really beating up on her."

I couldn't tell you.

Posted by: sbj3 | October 4, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Cut Meg a break. Why should the CEO of Ebay be expected to be vigilant about taking steps to make sure that some one was who they claimed to be. After all; Ebay never had to be concerned with protecting against identity theft, right?!

Posted by: Liam-still | October 4, 2010 12:59 PM | Report abuse

@sbj,

Up in northern CA, talk radio hosts are reporting that their cohorts in Southern Cal are beating her up.

Here's one quote:

“If she’s going to lie to us … then the hell with her,” bellowed John Kobylt, one half of the dynamic duo that hosts the John and Ken Show on L.A.’s KFI-AM 640, the most popular conservative talk radio program in Southern California.

“She’s saying one thing in Spanish and the exact opposite in English … She is going to lose white, black, and Asian votes, and she’s going to lose a lot of conservative and independent votes, if she’s acting as if she’s two-faced. And she’s acting like she’s two-faced.”

http://www.independent.com/news/2010/aug/12/thunder-right/
------------------------------
Then I see ALIPAC calling for the maid's & Whitman's arrest. I don't consider ALIPAC to be mainstream GOP thought.

But, conservative talk radio has more reach and MAY be more reflective of GOP thought.

Did the maid issue increase Meg's support in the GOP or decrease it?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 4, 2010 1:11 PM | Report abuse

@sbj,

Excuse me, I don't want to be misleading. I thought the Santa Barbara Independent article was dated after the illegal maid problem surfaced. It is not. That is an article from August, 2010.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 4, 2010 1:16 PM | Report abuse

@12bar: "Did the maid issue increase Meg's support in the GOP or decrease it?"

I would assume that it would decrease her support. (Noting, again, that I can't imagine a single GOPer ever voting for Moonbeam.)

Conservatives put themselves in an unwinnable situation if they expect that any California employer could have a clean record with regards to hiring undocumented workers. It is simply not possible. We should expect that employers will do their best to insure their workers are legal but you have to live and work here to really appreciate what is going on. In certain parts of SoCal there are many businesses that would quite literally have to close their doors if they did not do exactly what Whitman did (unpurposefully hire an undocumented worker who had lied and provided falsified documents).

Seems to me that Whitman did what we should reasonably expect. I'm a conservative SoCal voter - I would have preferred that Whitman had retained her maid even after finding she was illegal and simply said, "What was I going to do? Fire her? She's like a member of the family!" But, like I said, current state of the GOP being what it is she was in a no-win situation.

Posted by: sbj3 | October 4, 2010 1:32 PM | Report abuse

@sbj,

Are you going to vote for Whitman?

BTW, you said it would be near impossible to avoid hiring illegals. True, that.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 4, 2010 1:35 PM | Report abuse

OT:

* In S.C., Rob Miller sharpens attack on Joe 'You Lie' Wilson *

Signs that a fierce struggle is under way for the soul of South Carolina's 2nd Congressional District are everywhere.

Democratic challenger Rob Miller is taking the most aggressive and focused fight to U.S. Rep. Joe Wilson the four-term incumbent Republican has ever faced.

Miller, a 37-year-old former Marine captain who led two combat missions in Iraq, is shaping his 2010 bid to unseat Wilson around a ripening theme: Wilson is in Congress to cash in.

"I think Congressman Wilson has gone Washington," Miller said in a recent interview, meaning he thinks Wilson is "upside down" in his understanding of what a representative is elected to do.

"I think he represents everything that's wrong in Washington," said Miller, careful always to convey respect for the office. "… Whatever his intentions were when he went there, he now puts party politics over South Carolina. He puts his contributors over South Carolina. And I think that's the cycle we need to break."

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/10/04/101533/in-sc-miller-sharpens-attacks.html

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 4, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

@12bar: "Are you going to vote for Whitman?"

At this point, no. (Though it has nothing to do with her maid.)

Posted by: sbj3 | October 4, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

@sbj,

What is your problem with her? I am very interested in Meg Whitman's ultimate ambitions so am fascinated by the reactions of regular CA voters.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 4, 2010 1:42 PM | Report abuse

WOW.

Drone Strike Kills 8 German Militants in Pakistan

A suspected U.S. drone strike killed eight militants of German nationality in northwest Pakistan on Monday, Pakistani intelligence officials said.

They were killed when two missiles from a suspected CIA pilotless aircraft struck a mosque in Mirali in North Waziristan, the intelligence officials said.

The strikes came a day after the United States and Britain issued warnings of an increased risk of terrorist attacks in Europe.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2010/10/drone_strike_kills_8_germans_in_northwest_pakistan.php

Obama may have just stopped a major Al Qaeda attack in Europe.

At first I thought the article was saying that we killed 8 Germans by accident...

...But read the article. They were 8 German-born MILITANTS and the strike was possibly to break up a reported plot in Europe. Pretty wild. Obama is doing a GREAT job in keeping AQ holed up in the mountains of the Pakistani FATA.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 4, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Almost 100% liberal voices on this thread - something must be working, right?


______________________________

Jane Hamsher of Fire Dog Lake said something interesting today - she said she was in favor last spring - with Rahm Emanuel - of a "stripped down health care bill which is much less expensive"


Is Jane Hamsher says that Obama is to the left of her?


Up to this point, everyone has been relying on Gibbs' characterization of where Obama is and where his left is.

The left doesn't even know what to expect from Obama - he is so full of deceptions and lies - no one knows what to think anymore.


It is clear the Obama made a critical mistake not giving the nation an outline of where he stood on the health care bill. Everytime the bill went through the five committees on the Hill, the country was told "this is not the final bill" - don't worry about this.

Well that was designed to blunt opposition to individual provisions - but in the end no one knew what those provisions were so they couldn't be in favor of them either.


You have to give people something to be in favor of - Obama prefered to keep everything vague - and then he dumped a 2,000 page bill in the middle of the night.


Obama would have been FAR better off to have had negotiated with the Republicans - and gotten widespread support for a bill - then the health care provisions he did get would have been regarded as a victory today.

Now it is clearly not anything like that.


Instead, the democrats seem to be running on picking out little statements from Tea Party candidates and trying to get people against them that way.


BUT what are people supposed to be in favor of? Obama STILL hasnt't said. That is a complete failure of leadership, again.


Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 4, 2010 1:44 PM | Report abuse

@12bar: "What is your problem with her?"

She's not likable. She didn't do well at the (first) debate. Her plans don't seem radical enough to "fix" California. She is too mechanical in her responses. She resorts too often to talking points and she repeats them endlessly. The average Joe cannot relate to her. She has spent too much of her own money.

She'd probably be better than Brown, but that's not saying much. And just being a bit better than Brown is not going to make enough of a difference to help California. We need a Christie type.

Posted by: sbj3 | October 4, 2010 1:49 PM | Report abuse

The last New Jersey Poll that I saw, was posted on Sept 21st, and it showed that New Jersey has turned against Christie. His approval rating was down to 45%. He has accomplished nothing. Has had a major screw up on obtaining major federal funding, and then refused to take responsibility for the screw up. It was someone else's fault, according to Christie, just like Meg says that she should not be held accountable either.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 4, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

The last New Jersey Poll that I saw, was posted on Sept 21st, and it showed that New Jersey has turned against Christie. His approval rating was down to 45%. He has accomplished nothing. Has had a major screw up on obtaining major federal funding, and then refused to take responsibility for the screw up. It was someone else's fault, according to Christie, just like Meg says that she should not be held accountable either.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 4, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

@sbj,

Your reaction to Whitman is a bit like my own. She is too scripted AND she's spent too much money. Somehow it's that combination of factors that triggers my suspicion meter. I assume you are just not going to vote that race, but will you vote at all?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 4, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

@12bar: I'm not even sure if a Libertarian is running but I would probably vote for him/her or not vote. I am officially undecided.

Posted by: sbj3 | October 4, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

@sbj,

Well, I won't question you anymore. Hope you don't mind. I'm more interested in what people really think, than just arguing with them. Thanks for being receptive.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 4, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues

Something you should know about SBJ.

He said that the only reason that he even bothered to vote, in the last Presidential election, was because he wanted to vote against President Obama. SBJ said that he considered President Obama to have conducted a racist campaign, and if it had been Hillary V. McCain, SBJ said that he would not have even voted.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 4, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

now that we have heard some honesty from jake, curious why he refuses to weigh in on the GOP wanting to adopt 19th century theories of govt including Anullment promoted by Rick Perry in 2010 and John C Calhoun in 1832. We have had radical Rs previously, both Calhoun and Agnew however resigned. Rs like Calhoun pushed radical political concepts like nullification and seccesion in previous decades, Joe McCarthy harrassed all progressives in the 1950s, and Newt tried in 1995 to shut down the entire govt, so why should anyone be shocked or not take today's radical Rs disguised as TeaParty candidates, today, like Miller, Angle, Paul and McMahan proclamations to end Medicare, SS and the minimum wage,and question the constitutioality of Civil Rights laws,seriously? These concepts are otherwise foreign to most American voters. But the radical right has been around in this countryt for a very long time and they are not going away any time soon so get used to it and fight like heck to make sure they never obtain the reigns of govt, b/c you aint heard nothing yet if anyone here doesn't appreciate how truly out of the mainstream and how antiquated their governing philosophy truly is.

Posted by: leichtman1 | October 4, 2010 5:06 PM | Report abuse

"Seems to me that Whitman did what we should reasonably expect. I'm a conservative SoCal voter - I would have preferred that Whitman had retained her maid even after finding she was illegal and simply said, "What was I going to do? Fire her? She's like a member of the family!" But, like I said, current state of the GOP being what it is she was in a no-win situation. Posted by: sbj3"

And therein lies Whitman's, and many another republican's problem.

They are sold to be so anti immigrant labor that they find themselves opposing laws that would bring necessary immigrant labor, like migrant farm workers, who can plan a nine month odessy through several or many states, going north with the advance of the seasons and working the return harvests, into reasonable regulation, because their party has decided that too many conservatives oppose any immigrant labor at all for them to sign on to labor bills that Unions and Democrats might also accept. So the West Coast can't have UFW locals of immigrants negotiate contracts that would help both west coast farmers and migrant laborers.

Dems can get by with mistaklenly, or not, employing illegals because their party won't punish them for deviating from orthodoxy, AND GETTING CAUGHT.

Republicans will, of course, scream, rant and rave about such a nasty immigrant loving Democrat, but they wouldn't vote for him anyway so getting caught is small potatoes and few in a hill for Democrats. Republicans getting caught are fair game, because that is Democrats playing by Republican rules, and it puts the Whitmans of the world in really uncomfortable postures.

Yes, she should have done the noble thing and helped her maid, and not tried to get by with a quick dismissal and hopes that nobody would notice. But Everything in her background, which is sufficiently devoid of political experience and political reality that she is flying blind on this, tells her to fire quick, deny early, and hope that it all blows over.

But just a month from the Election is too little time for this to blow over, and bunkering down till it does only helps Governor Moonbeam. (That wasn't what the Bay Area Papers called him when it was him and Linda Ronstadt and their campaign circus running around the state campaigning, but I can't remember just what it WAS they called him.)

Still, Governor Moonbeam is a known, if quirky, quantity.

Meg is as Moonie as he is, and where she really is is anybody's guess.

Posted by: ceflynline | October 4, 2010 9:12 PM | Report abuse

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