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How low is the public's regard for the GOP?

Amid all the grim polling news for Dems, one bright spot that Democrats take solace in is that the GOP notches consistently higher disapproval ratings than Dems do. And polls certainly do show that. But how significant are those numbers, anyway?

Gallup has some new polling out that probes public attitudes towards the parties in a bit more detail than standard approve/disapprove questions do. And the results should be very disconcerting for Dems. In sum, the two parties are basically tied on a range of questions that gauge what the public thinks of the two parties' ability to govern.

* The poll finds that 43 percent think the GOP "can bring about the changes this country needs," versus only 40 percent who think that about Dems.

* It finds that 42 percent think the GOP "is able to manage the government effectively," versus only 39 percent who think that about Dems.

* The poll finds that 42 percent think the GOP "has mostly honest and ethical members of Congress," versus only 39 percent who think that about Dems.

* And it finds 32 percent think the GOP "has a clear plan for solving the nation's problems," versus 33 percent who think that about Dems.

The GOP holds a slight lead in all those catetories except the last, but the parties are basically tied in all of them. Interestingly, these views of the GOP have remained mostly stable since 2006, when the GOP lost control of Congress. The reason the GOP now edges Democrats in these categories is because there's been an extraordinarily steep drop in public regard for Democratic governance since that year.

I wonder how much the generalized GOP approval/disapproval numbers that Dems keep citing actually mean in the real world. Polls do consistently show more trust in Dems on specific issues. But overall, the bad economy seems to have sharply boosted public skepticism about the Dems' competence and ability to govern -- dragging them down to the GOP's level in that regard.

By Greg Sargent  | October 8, 2010; 3:14 PM ET
Categories:  2010 elections, House Dems, Senate Dems, Senate Republicans, economy  
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Comments

Of interest:

"Americans are divided over whether President Barack Obama or his predecessor has performed better in the White House, according to a new national poll.

"... By 47 to 45 percent, Americans say Obama is a better president than George W. Bush. But that two point margin is down from a 23 point advantage one year ago.

"Democrats may want to think twice about bringing up former President George W. Bush's name while campaigning this year," says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/08/cnntime-poll-was-bush-better-president-than-obama/

Posted by: sbj3 | October 8, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Here is what we are up against. People do not wish to face reality.

I live in Florida where the R's have been indicted and governed against the will of the people for a decade now. But Obama derangement syndrome will keep many of them in office. Understand that our Former Speaker of the House Ray Sansom now under indictment was Marco Rubio's protege. Rubio milked the system just like Sansom yet he will cruise to victory.
Sleazeball Rick Scott who IS a special interest has spent over 50 million of his own money and still remains a viable candidate despite Medicare/medicaid fraud(stealing the taxpayers money) and costing his corporation 1.7 BILLION in fines..he got fired!

Here is the best political spot from any Democrat or Democratic organization I've seen this year. I first saw it last night on TV and was actually cheering out loud.
It's worth watching to see what Florida Republicans REALLY represent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dXUREILZWQ

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 8, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Must not conflate LV with "the public."

Yes, it's an election year but LV != public.

As Nate Silver pointed out:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/06/understanding-and-misunderstanding-the-enthusiasm-gap/

The only thing throwing this election out of whack is the over enthusiasm of Republicans. The Dems enthusiasm might be lower than 06 but it's still higher than 1994, 98 and 2002.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 8, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

mike, what's particularly disconcerting is the above numbers are not likely voters. they are Americans overall.

Posted by: Greg Sargent | October 8, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

@SBJ Exactly. Why bring up G.W. Bush?

There is only a 2% point ADVANTAGE there.
Why not bring up Saint Ronnie where Obama has double that a 4% advantage!!!!

Barack Obama's Most Recent Weekly Approval Rating Average 46% Sep 27-Oct 3

Ronald Reagan 42% (October 1982)

You're correct SBJ..why bring up G.W. a President loathed by many conservatives as well as progressives. Why not bring up St. Ronnie...the conservative icon who Obama is also leading by 4 percentage points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 8, 2010 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Seriously folks...this is the best political spot of the midterms...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dXUREILZWQ

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 8, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

The QUESTION right now is how is Obama and the democrats doing in their jobs right now?

They are NOT measuring up.

Obama would rather blame someone else - than concentrate on getting the job done.


Bush was fighting two wars and dealing with the potential for terrorist attack within the US - for the six years before Nancy Pelosi took over the House.


So to blame Bush - Bush was cleaning up the mess in the Middle East which Bill Clinton left - Bill Clinton was the one removing our intelligence assets from the Middle East - and Bill Clinton is the one who would NOT take Bin Laden when Sudan offered him up.


The public does not buy the "Blame Bush" line -


The other part of this - these polls are asking WHO is worse - everyone knows they are both bad. So to say the poll is actually showing the GRADATIONS is not really correct.


Neither party has a lead in any of these categories - they are BOTH BAD

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 8, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

I'd add to Mike and Greg's points that if Dems don't start running hard on their principles, instead of running away from them when the heat is on, they are going to stay locked in these low numbers.

Also, ruk, FL is just such a basket case. Yikes.

Posted by: BGinCHI | October 8, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse

What I was meaning to say


Just because someone in the poll says - this party is worse - that DOESN'T mean the other party is GOOD.


The democrats have nothing to rejoice about.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 8, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Ultimately, the Democrats have ownership of the economy. The party benefited from Republicans' poor ratings in the 2006 and 2008 elections. They can't be entirely surprised that they're being held to the same standard. If the Republicans do retake the House (50/50), they shouldn't be surprised that they'll be held to account come 2012. Then again, I'm sure that the Democrats expected to do better in 1996 down ballot than they did.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | October 8, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

RUK, awesome, thanks bud.

I gave to Alex Sink again last night.

And OFA, and a few on the Act Blue PL Community Organizers page. Doin' what I can.

Anyone else wanna chip in to the cause?

You can do so here:

http://www.actblue.com/page/plcommunity

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 8, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Let me be CLEAR : The ONLY way the democrats can save themselves is to get Obama to resign. The democrats need a CLEAR BREAK from Obama -


The damage to the democratic party this year is going to be extensive - Forget about Congress - in the States and the local elections the democrats are in serious trouble.

Re-districting is for 10 years - you think Obama thought about that last winter ? Obama is INCOMPETENCE at its worst - the MALPRACTICE in managing the democratic party has been unbelievable.


There has been discussion about the Republicans achieving separation from Bush - a guy who is on some ranch somewhere.


HOW about the democrats achieving separation from OBAMA? The democrats going around saying "We haven't finished our agenda yet" - Talk about shooting oneself in the foot - and then aiming at the other foot and pulling the trigger.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 8, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

@BG Yes if you watched that spot which covers all of Tampa Bay you have to wonder how any sane person could vote for a Republican this cycle. We are as you suggest a basket case. :-(

@'Blade...I agree with your post as well.
It is the economy, and rightly or wrongly the indys who actually decide elections (not the real partisans) very rarely vote on policy but simply "how am I doing, and who is in office right now"

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 8, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abuse

FairlingtonBlade at 3:54 PM


EXACTLY - the public is OUTRAGED at Obama that he does not hold himself to the same standard.


If the democrats are going to run around for years saying Bush lied.


We better not hear about lies on the oil spill

- Lies on the unemployment numbers

- Lies on post-partisanship

- Lies on being post-racial

- Lies on transparency

- Lies on the Afghan War - and then getting into office and going for a policy totally different from what Obama said in the debates

- Lies on terrorism - whether the terrorist was motivated by this or that


- Lies on Health Care Premiums

The American People are OUTRAGED at the ATTITUDE OF THE DEMOCRATS.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 8, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

OT:

* Bank of America Halts Foreclosure Sales *

Bank of America, the country’s largest bank, said on Friday that it was halting all foreclosure proceedings and sales of foreclosed homes indefinitely.

The action by the bank is likely to increase pressure on other lenders to declare their own moratoriums. Lawmakers and state law enforcement officials have been widely calling for such halts.

Representative Edolphus Towns, the New York Democrat who is chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, applauded Bank of America’s move and said, “I expect to see every other responsible banking institution follow their lead.”

Senator Harry Reid, the Nevada Democrat who is the Senate majority leader, thanked Bank of America “for doing the right thing” and urged other lenders to follow suit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/09/business/09mortgage.html

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 8, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

rukidding7, you're right, that is a great ad.

I seem to be following your links everywhere today. ;)

BG, mike, Greg are all correct -- Democrats need to run on their principles.

How anyone can seriously believe that the GOP has a clear plan is beyond me. Well, as has been said here many times before -- the people who will be voting for the GOP are the ones who are going to get the most hurt by what the Republicans intend to try to do.

Posted by: elscott | October 8, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

@Ethan...THANKS for all our help with Alex.

My wife is a Dentist who is VERY politically active on behalf of all causes that effect dentistry. She visits DC annually as part of a grass roots group from the ADA who visit their local Congressional representative and she makes an annual trek to Tallahassee for "Dentists Day on the Hill". Several years ago she returned from Tallahassee and told me how impressed she was by Alex Sink.

I am happy to vote, and yes like you Ethan I keep digging deeper and deeper for the donations for Sink, not just because sleazeball Scott is easily the most despicable human running for office this cylce but because Sink is competent and cares about the State of Florida.

BTW Ethan here is the latest on that race...

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/stateroundup/article1126838.ece

"Democrat Alex Sink is nursing a narrow lead over Republican Rick Scott in the Florida governor's race, according to a new poll that shows his barrage of negative ads is nevertheless hurting her candidacy."

Anybody besides Ethan who can help...PLEASE...do not let the Sunshine State be sold to a grifter who moved here seven years ago to shield his half billion from a state income tax. He has NEVER been involved in any civic organizations and has done NOTHING for our state until he decided to buy the Governors mansion with 50+ and counting million of his ill gotten fortune.

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 8, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

@rukidding: "Why not bring up St. Ronnie...the conservative icon who Obama is also leading by 4 percentage point"

Well, for one thing, Ronald Reagan is dead. For another thing, Reagan is a lot more popular now than he was in 1982. ;)

You'd get a lot less sympathy for attacking Ronald Reagan than you would for Dubya, and campaigns that compare Republicans running for office to Ronald Reagan would be favorable for those Republicans, at this point.

Speaking of 1982, the Republicans lost 26 seats in the house and none in the senate, but Republicans weren't defending nearly as many seats (indeed, the Democrats already had a majority in the house) as the Democrats are this year.

Strictly on the percentages, the Democrats stand to lose a lot of seats, and take a bigger drubbing than the Republicans in 1982. Will it be 1994? Probably not.

Vote Zombie Reagan, 2012!

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 8, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

elscott, the GOP does have a plan: use government to empower corporations to divert as much wealth as possible to those most connected to their success.

That is, until people figure out that running government and capitalism that way leads to bigger inequities, less efficiency, and a worse overall economy.

Then the Dems will win again. And this will repeat until people understand how things work.

Posted by: BGinCHI | October 8, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Most welcome RUK.

All true. But two more really huge reasons to put a D in Tallahassee:

Redistricting and 2012.

Anyone who can give to Alex Sink for Gov of FL, please do so ***TODAY***!!!!

http://www.alexsink2010.com/contribute

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 8, 2010 4:23 PM | Report abuse

BG, yes, I was thinking about the "pendulum" too, swinging back and forth.

I guess the big question is, how many times will we have to repeat this before people start to understand. And at what point will "government of the corporations, by the corporations and for the corporations" become so firmly entrenched that it will be next to impossible to take it back? Or have we already crossed that line.

Posted by: elscott | October 8, 2010 4:26 PM | Report abuse

"And this will repeat until people understand how things work."

It truly is pathetic, but this is 100% accurate.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 8, 2010 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Any chance Crist would agree to conference with the Dems and Meek would exit the race?

I hate to say that but having Rubio walk to a win is nauseating.

Unless of course he wins and then gets indicted. Or do they even do that with Senators? Ensign?

Posted by: BGinCHI | October 8, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Question of the week:

After the Democrats get the bums rush from an enraged electorate in November, will Barack Obama do a Clinton to save himself from a one-way ticket to Carterville??

I can't wait to find out.

Posted by: battleground51 | October 8, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

@Kevin..."Well, for one thing, Ronald Reagan is dead. For another thing, Reagan is a lot more popular now than he was in 1982. ;)"

I agree with your observation...it's just that you missed the motivation of my post and your response actually makes my point.

It was snark aimed at the two loons who post here incessantly with only one obsession in mind...Obama has bad breath..Obama has B.O. after all look at his initials..Obama yadda yadda yadda.

Your point however makes mine. Obama is halfway through a first term where he inherited two UNBUDGETED wars...a record deficit..and the WORST economic crisis since the Great Depression. Doubtful any politician short of JC Himself would have enjoyed positive numbers at this point in their administration. Never mind the normal midterm shellacking either party gets...Obama inherited a serious of genuine disasters from G.W.

Now you are rational Kevin and I I'll try to make this as non partisan as possible (which is to say not very:-) ) but when the economy turns..as it most likely will in the next two years...when Obama pulls the plug on Afghanistan..as he most likely will in the next two years...when DADT becomes history..as it most likely will in the next two years...Obama's numbers' will skyrocket just like St. Ronnie's did when the economy turned for him.

I'll leave it to Scott and JennofArk to debate whether either St. Ronnie or Obama deserve the early blame or the later credit.

My point was not to literally point to St. Ronnie...as you mention he is dead and has long since been canonized and it would actually peeve people to slander his name...the point of the post was simply to get the two loons to stop with the popularity polls already.

None of these freaking polls mean a thing...let's wait until that first Tuesday in November to pay attention to a poll and even then it will be way way too premature to gauge Obama's popularity...as you point out Kevin.."the Republicans lost 26 seats in the house and none in the senate, but Republicans weren't defending nearly as many seats "

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 8, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

@BG and Elscott I'm interested reading your observations about the pendulum and "government of the corporations etc".

I love history and watching that pendulum swing. While FDR gets almost all..if not all the glory for getting control of our financial sector..until most of those "New Deal" regulations got gutted..repeal of Glass Stegall etc...it was actually the OTHER Roosevelt..a REPUBLICAN who did a lot of heavy lifting before his cousin showed up in the W.H.

Teddy Roosevelt did a lot of work busting the trusts and monopolies...and so who knows...by the time the American public catches up to what you two are pointing out it could be an R who finally makes some changes. Preposterous to think of at the moment because the R's have sunken to the depths of ignorance with folks like Palin, O'Donnell, Angle, Paladino..the list could be endless...but there are a few thoughtful R's left..Ron Paul..who unlike his son seems to be man who sticks to his convictions might give the corporatists a go...he at least is ready to take on the M.I.C. something that neither an R or a Dem has been willing to do since Ike.

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 8, 2010 4:40 PM | Report abuse

@elscott: "How anyone can seriously believe that the GOP has a clear plan is beyond me. "

Perhaps they're judging them in comparison to the Democrats?

I agree, I don't see a lot of clarity (except repeal Obamacare!) on the Republican side. The current Pledge for America is kind of meh, and doesn't really address much about what they'd actually do.

"the people who will be voting for the GOP are the ones who are going to get the most hurt by what the Republicans intend to try to do"

Well, obviously, they don't think so, and the argument that their self-interest lies elsewhere has to be made on those issues, rather than the "how can you vote against your self interest like this? What are you, stupid?" style of argument. It's not going to be self-evident to those folks that voting for Republicans is bad for them.

Which obviously is tricky, or not as satisfying as meditating on the fact the folks apparently (from the perspective of liberals) vote so often against their own best interests. Several years ago, I read "What's The Matter With Kansas?" which is a book (lauded by liberals on the jacket) that deals exclusively with the question of why people would vote for Republicans when, clearly, their best interests lay in voting for Democrats.

Basically, the conclusion was that the people were well-meaning, but ignorant, and easily mislead, and spent too much worried over social issues and religious issues, rather than the kitchen table issues where Republicans would let them down and Democrats would deliver. However, as one of those folks who routinely votes against my own best interest (in the view of Democrats), there was nothing, in the entire book, that resonated with me, or indicated that Thomas Frank got it, or had any interest in getting it. He'd made up his mind before he started the book.

I think, generally, people will vote folks in and out, except when things are good enough for them that they feel safe about being complacent.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 8, 2010 4:41 PM | Report abuse

LOL!!! Let's "stop" with the popularity polls then (I guess I won't be commenting on the actual thread topic then ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 8, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Why change now Jake..how often do you stick to the thread subject anyway?

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 8, 2010 4:46 PM | Report abuse

rukidding7


YOU aren't thread-bombing today?


Anyway -


Grifter ? So what do you call someone who moves to Chicago and gets a job going around the "projects" - and admits to doing cocaine ?


Community Organizer?

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 8, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

How low is the public's regard for the GOP?
Should have been titled: How low is the IQ of Greg Sargent. The Democrats are not even going to be able to buy votes this November.

Posted by: 2012anewstart | October 8, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

"there was nothing, in the entire book, that resonated with me"

That's because you are one of the ideologues the book was trying to make sense of.

The obvious fallacy is that there IS no sense to be made of people like you. You just are what you are. That's why I think Republicanism is a sickness, a genetic malady, a misfired gene, a mutation, or some other kind of physical trait that doesn't allow your brain to function normally.

It is ingrained in every fiber of your being to be a Republican, and it is most obvious in the many many instances in which you and your ilk are obstinate in your direct opposition to clear facts.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 8, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

rukidding7:

Since YOU were the one who brought up Letterman when that wasn't the topic, and YOU are the one who then refused to answer a simple question about Axelrod on Letterman, I will not be answering anymore of YOUR questions to me. Feel free to keeping calling me a "racist" or whatever, but I am done with you.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 8, 2010 4:57 PM | Report abuse

2012anewstart:

AMEN!!!

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 8, 2010 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Why would you trolls read the blog and then comment over and over of a man who you think has "a low IQ?"

Seriously.

Please go somewhere that is up to your exacting standards and leave us poor, over-educated, compassionate, principled folks alone.

Posted by: BGinCHI | October 8, 2010 5:07 PM | Report abuse

@ruk: "Obama has bad breath..Obama has B.O."

OMG! He does? Really? How do you know? /snark

"let's wait until that first Tuesday in November to pay attention to a poll and even then it will be way way too premature to gauge Obama's popularity..."

The vicissitudes of history. If everything else remained largely the same, but the Republicans had the Whitehouse, the dems would probably be gaining seats. For whatever reason, that seems to be the way our electorate works, at least 80% of the time.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 8, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

@STRF...Yes I could be accused of thread bombing today I'm off work. LMAO


Notice this though.


See I haven't been triple spacing my comments.


And so people do not have to scroll down as many vertical inches.


But I share this with you STRF just in case you are a rational person and wonder why everybody dislikes you so much.


Triple spacing, or even too much double spacing turns people off.

Obama derangement syndrome is another thing that gets old.


You see STRF I could easily duplicate your posts by typing Obama......you can fill in the blanks.


And so for starters STRF never


ever


ever


triple space.

Just a thought. :-) I have 2,300 charachters left because this blog doesn't count white space...just because the white space is free doesn't mean you HAVE to use it or the CAPS...FEWER CAPS ACTUALLY GET YOU MORE ATTENTION WHEN YOU USE THEM.


HOPE SOME OF THESE THOUGHTS HELP YOU NAVIGATE THROUGH THE SHOALS OF ALL OF THESE FOLKS OUT TO SUPPRESS YOUR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS. lmao

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 8, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

@Ethan2010: "The obvious fallacy is that there IS no sense to be made of people like you. You just are what you are. That's why I think Republicanism is a sickness, a genetic malady, a misfired gene, a mutation, or some other kind of physical trait that doesn't allow your brain to function normally."

Nothing to say, I just wanted to quote that, in it's entirety. Because it's awesome. It's like watching an artist at work, it truly is. :)

"It is ingrained in every fiber of your being to be a Republican"

Except, of course, when I was a liberal.

"and it is most obvious in the many many instances in which you and your ilk are obstinate in your direct opposition to clear facts"

Yes. As Ronald Reagan said, facts are stupid things. /snark

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 8, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse

Ethan at 1:50 writes


We WILL beat you back and defeat you in the name of liberty and democracy.


______________________________


Have you joined the Tea Party ???

____________________________


Ethan I honestly believe you are on the verge of a life-changing moment


I like how you are mentioning all the money going into the campaigns - and how the people get SOLD OUT.

How can anyone celebrate Obama vetoing the foreclosure law - when ALL the democrats ALREADY voted for it ???


AT some point, you will see ALL the money going into the democratic party - and SEE HOW THAT LEADS TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY SELLING OUT.


When you see that, your life will change.


You will see everything - and your life will change.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 8, 2010 5:12 PM | Report abuse

@ruk:

Don't do it.


Then we're all going to start doing it.


And it's going to ruin the comments section.

-------------------------------


Don't forget putting in a line of dashes somewhere in the middle to MAKE reading WHATEVER your WRITING even more CONFUSING!


And, LET'S BE CLEAR! Obama KNOWS he trying to FORCE THE COUNTRY to type in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS and TRIPLE-SPACE ALL COMMENTS with his SOCIALISM !!!


And 12Bar should stop being so mean to me, and trying to cause fights.


Boo-hoo.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 8, 2010 5:14 PM | Report abuse

Kevin, hurry up and take your emergency valium.

Posted by: BGinCHI | October 8, 2010 5:16 PM | Report abuse

This is probably way too late to comment on the thread's original topic but, I will anyway:

I think the abysmal numbers for the GOP take on much more significance if they take at least the House in November (and after the subsequent celebration dies down). Right now the story is "Party poised to dominate election not actually popular." Its kinda weird and doesn't fit anybody's media narrative. Plus, electoral outcomes (or widely expected outcomes) mean a lot more than approval numbers, so we move on.

However, if they have at least the House, and their numbers remain unchanged (or get worse), the story is "Ruling party in Congress hated by American public." At that point, the approval numbers drive the narrative, whereas now the generic ballot numbers drive it.

Posted by: jbossch | October 8, 2010 5:17 PM | Report abuse

@Kevin.....
"Obama has bad breath..Obama has B.O."
OMG! He does? Really? How do you know?"

I know because STRF and Jake have told me so...over and over and over and over and over and triple spaced over again. :-)

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 8, 2010 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Kevin_Willis:

I suppose you think it's OK for Jerry Brown to call Meg Whitman a "wh0re" right? She's a poser conservative.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 8, 2010 5:21 PM | Report abuse

rukidding and Kevin


You are both becoming unhinged. Are you screaming at the screen too ?


You are both RACIST against white space.


Seriously, if the space was black, you would be demanding an affirmative action program for more of it.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 8, 2010 5:23 PM | Report abuse

jbossch:

Sorry, but we've been told to "stop" discussing the popularity polls.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 8, 2010 5:23 PM | Report abuse

OT (like every other comment in this thread):

"N.J. Gov. Chris Christie agrees to reconsider Hudson River tunnel project"

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/10/hudson_river_tunnel_project_ma.html

"The fact that the ARC project is not financially viable and is expected to dramatically exceed its current budget remains unchanged," the governor said in a statement today.

"However, this afternoon Secretary LaHood presented several options to potentially salvage a trans Hudson tunnel project. At the secretary’s request, I’ve agreed to have executive director of NJ Transit Jim Weinstein and members from his team work with U.S. Department of Transportation staff to study those options over the next two weeks.”

Posted by: sbj3 | October 8, 2010 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Read this and weep. Thanks Supremes!

http://www.publicintegrity.org/articles/entry/2462/

Great comprehensive piece on campaign finance.

Posted by: BGinCHI | October 8, 2010 5:24 PM | Report abuse

@JakeD2: "I suppose you think it's OK for Jerry Brown to call Meg Whitman a "wh0re" right? She's a poser conservative."

Hi, Ethan--I mean, Jake. Ooops. You can see how I might get you both confused, with the "putting the things I never said in my mouth" modus operandi. Honest mistake.

That being said, I never said Meg Whitman is a poseur (ala O'Donnell, about whom I have said exactly that). From what I know, she's a lot better than the left is spinning her to be, and definitely better than Jerry Brown. Although, I don't think there could be a better outcome for Republicans in California than the return of Governor Moonbeam at the cusp of crisis.

That being said, an aide to Jerry said that, right? Still, inappropriate, and not the way to approach political fights.

And there is a difference between, for example, saying a candidate is atrocious (something I've said about O'Donnell) and saying a candidate is a wh***. So, no, I don't approve. But thanks for at least quasi-asking, instead of just telling me that's what you already know I said. ;)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 8, 2010 5:27 PM | Report abuse

rukidding and Kevin


Ever hear of e. e. cummings???


Why don't you both pull out some real literature and read that.


Seriously folks - go complain to e. e.


And then get back to me.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 8, 2010 5:28 PM | Report abuse

sbj, translation of that Christie article:

"Little boy who stomped feet, took home ball, now urged by grown-ups to get back in the game and stop acting like such a baby. Reminded that without play, he'd be a dull boy and the state would sink further into a morass."

Posted by: BGinCHI | October 8, 2010 5:28 PM | Report abuse

@sbj3: "However, this afternoon Secretary LaHood presented several options to potentially salvage a trans Hudson tunnel project. At the secretary’s request, I’ve agreed to have executive director of NJ Transit Jim Weinstein and members from his team work with U.S. Department of Transportation staff to study those options over the next two weeks.”

Why, that knee-jerk ideologue! He oughta suck on a tail pipe! /snark

Apparently, Fairlington Blade got to him, too. :)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 8, 2010 5:29 PM | Report abuse

@Kevin Your SRTF impression was better than mine...I had forgotten the useless lines.
You have me spitting my afternoon cocktail at the screen. That was FUNNY

@STRF I tried.:-) Thanks for confirming you are an irrational psychopath or perhaps simply a paid republican stooge out to sabotage a progressive blog. We tell you why we hate you and you keep doing it. You are a real piece of work.

To my friends...I know..I know..don't feed the trolls.

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 8, 2010 5:30 PM | Report abuse

sbj3 at 5:23 PM

They don't have to spend MILLIONS on another tunnel - there are already tunnels. Lincoln, Holland, PATH - that's enough.

If you don't like it, take a Ferry.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 8, 2010 5:31 PM | Report abuse

STR, e.e. cummings was a poet.

You're not even a decent typist.

Maybe you were thinking of your other hero, I.P. Freely.

Posted by: BGinCHI | October 8, 2010 5:31 PM | Report abuse

@BGinCHI: "Little boy who stomped feet, took home ball"

Or, one adult decided the state couldn't afford something, and it took it off the table. Other adults, interested in seeing the project move forward, tried to come up with some other options. All adults, being adults, agreed to discuss it and consider all options available to them, like adults.

I mean, that's just another way to think about it. If you wanted to.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 8, 2010 5:32 PM | Report abuse

@jbossch Never too late to return us to sanity. Your post is very prescient and I agree 100%

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 8, 2010 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Well, I certainly didn't think my regard for them could get any lower, but, alas, I never met O'Donnell before: http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/10/constitutional_lawyer_in_8_days.php?ref=fpblg

Another reason why we should field as smart a candidate as possible. Jeebus Christine, they will Eat. Your. Lunch. And here's a tip for ya, when they call you "my esteemed colleague" you will probably think they *mean* it. Oy.

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | October 8, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

Kevin, why do these genius businessmen politicians not understand investment?

I just don't get it.

You want government that does nothing? I can point out some wonderful 3rd world countries where that's exactly the case.

Posted by: BGinCHI | October 8, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

rukidding

You are guilty of BWI

How can anyone take you seriously when you are BWI ???


Thread-bombing and everything.


BWI Drinking While Blogging. Blogging While Intoxicated.


There should be a law against that.


.


Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 8, 2010 5:37 PM | Report abuse

BG At first I thought you were going to go all Lloyd Bentson on poor STRF...you know..
"I knew e.e.cummings and you sir are no e.e.cummings"

But then I realized Cummings died in the early 60's and you weren't going to admit you're that old. :-)

Never the less a great bit of snark.

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 8, 2010 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Anyone interested in how the foreclosure stuff works in this great country of ours?

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/10/4closurefraud-posts-docx-mortgage-document-fabrication-price-sheet.html

Unbelievable.

Posted by: BGinCHI | October 8, 2010 5:41 PM | Report abuse

Obama is complaining about a "threat to democracy"

Is that a laugh or what?

What about Obama's credit card machines - were they taking in FOREIGN MONEY ??? Seriously folks, this is a serious question. The American People DESERVE an investigation into the CREDIT CARD CONTRIBUTIONS to Obama's 2008 Campaign.


The American People DESERVE IT.


The banks have all the credit card information - the billing addresses of ALL the credit cards of Obama - and the contribution limits.


Obama spent $700 MILLION in 2008 -

and now he is complaining about a FRACTION of that amount?

Anyone who knows the slightest bit about the subject can not believe that Obama would go make these kinds of charges.

At this point, why doesn't Obama just put on a red suit with a giant H for Hypocrite?


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 8, 2010 5:43 PM | Report abuse

All, Happy Hour Roundup posted:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/10/happy_hour_roundup_105.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | October 8, 2010 5:43 PM | Report abuse

ruk, I'm only in my early 40s, but the news every day makes me feel old as dirt.

Posted by: BGinCHI | October 8, 2010 5:43 PM | Report abuse

@BginChi: "Maybe you were thinking of your other hero, I.P. Freely."

Snort! That was good. Worth feeding the trolls, for that.

As far as businessmen and investment, all I know is that business folks don't invest in everything, and are generally (though not always) very cautious about making huge investments . . . and I think a lot of business people probably want the transit tunnel, don't they? I can't think of too many large government construction projects that haven't had a number of business people, in a position to potentially benefit, support them vociferously.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 8, 2010 5:44 PM | Report abuse

@BGinChi: "You want government that does nothing? I can point out some wonderful 3rd world countries where that's exactly the case."

I don't won't a government that does nothing. Indeed, there needs to be a middle ground. We cannot have government that does nothing, and it's not possible to have a government that does everything.

A robust public sector is important. What that means to different people--now, there's going to be some arguments over that.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 8, 2010 5:53 PM | Report abuse

Kevin, apparently Ethan's now convinced you've crossed over to the dark side.  I welcome you.  Rove will have your check ready soon and you can sign it on the alter of our Dark Lord, Master Cheney.

Bwahahahahahaha!

(cue dramatic organ music)

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | October 8, 2010 5:54 PM | Report abuse

"You are both RACIST against white space."

OK, I know, sorry... but that's funny!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey! ruk, Kevin

In Your Pants!!!
***Per the express wishes of Liam.

{{{um, what's the topic?}}}

Posted by: tao9 | October 8, 2010 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Kevin, we're in agreement then.

I just get tired of someone like Christie getting all kinds of conservative cred for literally doing nothing.

If you want to run a tight budget, that's fine, but you have to make good decisions for the long-term as well.

The biggest problem right now is that with the two parties there isn't really much of a choice on the right: they aren't an alternative, they're a crazy reactionary bunch who don't want to do anything.

OK, over-generalizing, but I'd really just like to see more constructive stuff getting done. And most of what Obama has done has been centrist and constructive.

Posted by: BGinCHI | October 8, 2010 5:56 PM | Report abuse

@Troll: "Kevin, apparently Ethan's now convinced you've crossed over to the dark side."

Ethan has always thought I was on the dark side. From the very beginning.

I've been trying to defraud people by telling them what I think about stuff without invective (for the most part). It's really quite a dastardly plot, actually.

I'm ready for some of those checks though. Given that I keep fighting for tax breaks for billionaires, you think they could do me straight, spot me a coupla bucks.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 8, 2010 6:06 PM | Report abuse

A major cause for lower regard from the public for Democratic ability to govern is that the Democrats allow the Republicans to punk them.

Most non-wonky people I talk to scoff at the idea that the Republicans have the power to stop Democratic initiatives. They don't know about the filibuster and other minority rights abuse, like holding up appointments.

And, the Dems need to start with themselves to fix that problem. They are timid in calling attention to the problem in plain everyday, every person language. They need to be better public advocates and have a debate on these abuses. They have the power to make an issue of it, if they would just use it.

As it is, there is no cost for the minority obstructionism. No deterrent to speak of.

Posted by: ANDYO1 | October 8, 2010 6:17 PM | Report abuse

2cents on the Jersey Tunnel:

Boston Big Dig went waaaaay over budget and projected completion date. There was some eye-popping corruption involved. It disrupted flow (worse, if you can imagine) at all points in&out of downtown. There have been major scope post-completion repairs done to poorly engineered or constructed components, and code/compliance fines and their accompanying highly expensive retro-fixes.

And you know what? Traffic's a little better Quincy2Charlestown, but not really $22B/large all that better.

But that's my Olde Hub fer ya boys (...cuz i love that dirty water etc.)

No way Jersey's anything like that.

Posted by: tao9 | October 8, 2010 6:19 PM | Report abuse

"I've been trying to defraud people by telling them what I think about stuff without invective (for the most part)"

Wait, I thought you didn't like when people put words in your mouth.

Now here you go doing that very thing to me. I believe that's called hypocrisy, Kevin.

Read my last comment on the morning thread.

Here is a snippet:

"""What I've been doing has been pointing out in stark terms that you are rejecting FACTS.

You CANNOT do that. You CANNOT reject indisputable facts. You MUST use the same facts as everyone else who seeks to be intellectually honest. That is called being ACCURATE. What you were doing is both NOT accurate and intellectually dishonest. That's why I call you disingenuous and a liar. It's true. That's what you are. That's how you behave.

It pisses me off to NO END to see people go against clear facts. Again, debate policy based on factual, empirical evidence? GREAT! Want to disagree based on facts? AWESOME! More power to you! I look forward to the debate.

But that is not our world today.

Rejecting facts on the ground and instead spinning reality into some obscene black versus white fantasy world is the entire basis for the modern Republican Party. That includes you, buddy boy."""

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 8, 2010 6:27 PM | Report abuse

Esteem, how low does it go? What is particularly vicerally disconflating is global flatulence, but what does it matter when all the Ex-Party People, you know the one's who are now joining the Thurd Party of 'Dem? not me that must be some other guy' are hanging out at the 'Not here, he's somewhere else' Bar and Coffee House. This can't be anything but a sweet sight to sore eyes, and beautiful music to the abused ears of the vast not so silent majority of people who truly belong here, love it, and will stay to see the infernal machine being designed and built from the sweat and tears of generations of poets and patriots, unplugged for good and shoved, along with any who wish to go with it, over the brink dug right before OUR eyes by those WE elected to look after US.

Posted by: RichNomore | October 8, 2010 6:53 PM | Report abuse

BG and Kevin, I want to join in the Christie-tunnel discussion. States cannot print money and Christie must consider himself between a rock and a hard place: tunnel=good; cost=bad.

So it may have taken guts to say "no" to the logjammed commuters and the crumbling infrastructure. It took being a pragmatist to negotiate by gambling for a better offer.

Facing a $20B hole here in TX we could have used a Gov. who had the guts to say no and the pragmatism to negotiate for better deals from DC. But NJ has worse problems and a better Gov. than TX. Just how bad is the hole Christie faces?

TX is a net donor state [$1 to DC for .94 in return] but that is within the plus or minus 10% margin we should expect. I have read that NJ is the greatest donor: $1 for .61 in return! [Neighboring PA gets $1.07
for every $1 and is a net donee.]

Conclusion?

Christie has some bargaining room, and he should push it.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | October 8, 2010 7:13 PM | Report abuse

rukidding7: Fla Ds need to urge Meek to drop out and get behind Crist. Meek has zero chance of winning and his presence is only guarateeing that Rubio and his right wing supporters will be representing Floridians. A vote for Meek is a vote for Rubio, plain and simple.

Posted by: leichtman1 | October 8, 2010 7:19 PM | Report abuse

It's the Ethan and Andy and Kevin show:

So whady'a think, d'ose Wascally Wepublicans are all over the poor picked on Dethugmocrat machine, ranting and raving, tempers flarin', blockin' an' slashin' all those wonderful huge benefit programs brilliant wimpy Congress Persons, compassionate all are trying and failing to pass at every turn, if it wasn't for them bad boys (and girls), why we'd all be living in a liberal paradise already, 72 dates a week for every liberal guy. *amn you Wepublicans, why can't we all just get along? Is that Bridge in Brooklyn for sale again?

Posted by: RichNomore | October 8, 2010 7:31 PM | Report abuse

Perry, mark has actually taken stimulus money he rails against and rather than use it for its intended prupose, has stashed in it the Rainy day Fund.

Today the Dallas Morning News is reporting that Chet Edwards, lagging in the polls,
has ripped off the govt he rails against for $6.5 million when his company filed for bankruptcy while owing millions to the federal Maritime Administration.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/100810dnpoldistrict17.16d508724.html

Reminds me of the story of Joe Miller attacking the so called constitutionality of unemployment benefits while his wife collected them or Sharon Angle attacking the federal govt at every turn while collecting her husband's federal pension and federal healthcare benefits. What hypocrisy.

Posted by: leichtman1 | October 8, 2010 7:31 PM | Report abuse

Perry, mark has actually taken stimulus money he rails against and rather than use it for its intended prupose, has stashed in it the Rainy day Fund.

Today the Dallas Morning News is reporting that Chet Edwards, lagging in the polls,
has ripped off the govt he rails against for $6.5 million when his company filed for bankruptcy while owing millions to the federal Maritime Administration.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/100810dnpoldistrict17.16d508724.html

Reminds me of the story of Joe Miller attacking the so called constitutionality of unemployment benefits while his wife collected them or Sharon Angle attacking the federal govt at every turn while collecting her husband's federal pension and federal healthcare benefits. What hypocrisy.

Posted by: leichtman1 | October 8, 2010 7:32 PM | Report abuse

[@ 7:31 PM on October 8, 2010 leichtman1 fell off the same brink Ethan and Andy and Kevin fell off of earlier, *amn that brink, and Posted...:
"Perry, mark... has actually...ripped off the govt..."]

Did you hear the one about the Brooklyn Bridge?

Posted by: RichNomore | October 8, 2010 7:40 PM | Report abuse

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