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Pundits and Republicans agree: Dem attack on Chamber is a flop

The full-scale assault from the White House and Dems on the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and Karl Rove's groups shows no signs of abating. But is it already a political flop?

Some commentators are rushing to proclaim this offensive a political failure. Mark Halperin, for instance, wondered allowed today: "I'm not sure how this appeals to voters." Halperin then stated this as outright fact: "It's just not relevant to voters."

Republicans are now entering the fray -- and they, too, agree it's a political flop, claiming that it will make Dems look anti-business. "All that Democrats have done is remind people of their anti-business fervor while drawing attention to the fact that their anti-growth policies have failed to put Americans back to work," reads a statement from Eric Cantor's office.

It's not surprising that Republicans would make this case. It dovetails with their larger message that Obama and Democrats are driven by an unshakable hostility towards the private sector and want to remake our economy into something no longer recognizably American. But if commentators are going to claim this attack is a failure, they might try to figure out if there's any evidence to back that up.

It's not easy to gauge whether this attack is working. But polls clearly show strong public discontent with corporate influence over our elections. A recent Washington Post poll found an overwhelming majority, 80 percent, opposes the Citizens United decision allowing unfettered corporate spending in elections, including strong majorities of both parties. And 72 percent support Congressional limits on corporate (and union) spending.

What's more, the Dem firm Greenberg Quinlan Rosner recently tested some Dem messages on this very topic. It found that one focused on corporate interests -- and corporate spending in elections -- was a very potent one that could close the Congressional generic matchup gap by nine points.

Given the electorate's clear discomfort with corporate influence over the political process, it's possible that the Dem assault on the Chamber's foreign money risks being a distraction. It has led virtually every news organization to cast this dispute as one over the narrow question of whether the Chamber's foreign cash bleeds into election spending. That has moved the focus away from the larger issue: That groups like the Chamber and Rove's outfits think it's fine and dandy to spend millions upon millions of dollars swaying our elections without disclosing where that money is coming from. The pressure is on Dems to keep the focus on those uncontestable facts.

I don't have any idea whether the overall White House and Dem attack is working or not. But it seems questionable for folks to conclude already that it's a failure, especially since there isn't any empirical evidence to support that claim.

By Greg Sargent  | October 12, 2010; 12:36 PM ET
Categories:  2010 elections, Campaign finance, House Dems, House GOPers, Senate Dems, Senate Republicans  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: White people haven't gone crazy
Next: How about some fact-checks of Karl Rove's and right's falsehoods?

Comments

When they first started this strategy, I mused on the possibility that Chamber of Commerce might not mean the same thing to the general public as it does to the Democrats. Thus, it might come off about the same as if the Democrats started attacking the local Rotary and the 4H Club.

"Republicans are getting anonymous foreign donations from . . . The Kiwanis Club! And a few Shriners, the Grand Order of the Water Buffaloe. And they've also raised money by selling subscriptions to . . . Grit!

Which is still around, BTW.

http://www.grit.com/

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 12, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

An issue like the Foreign money - people who are interested, but don't know much about the subject - they usually ask people they know.

The OVERWHELMING response is - Obama did the same thing last time -

The democrats had groups running ads without disclosing the donors in 2004 and 2006.


So the CREDIBILITY is important - Obama is losing all his credibility.


The American People DESERVE any investigation into Obama's CREDIT CARD OPERATIONS IN 2008 - let's see if there is foreign money in there.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 12, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

It's not so much "anti-business" as anti-FIRST AMENDMENT!!! By all means, though, I hope that the "full-scale assault from the White House" on the Chamber of Commerce continues (and I hope that the Chamber files litigation asserting said violation of its free speech rights ; )

BRING. IT. ON!

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 12, 2010 12:49 PM | Report abuse

They should call:

Martin Garbus (212) 561-3625

or

Brent Allen (202) 331-3100

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 12, 2010 12:52 PM | Report abuse

"A recent Washington Post poll found an overwhelming majority, 80 percent, opposes the Citizens United deciision, including strong majorities of both parties. And 72 percent support Congressional limits on corporate (and union) spending."

Shorter:

America hates it when people try to buy control the government.

Sounds about right.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 12, 2010 12:53 PM | Report abuse

This shouldn't be a surprise. In some ways, its the left's equivelant of the birther arguement: because we don't have conclusive evidence of a positive, it must mean a negative.
I have seen on many posts that the issue is disclosure. That's something very esoteric to most people that would give a look at the issue, hear the chamber say they keep the money seperate, and tune out.
This attack was poorly planned from the beginning. There was no evidence of wrongdoing, but many accusations that can never be disproven. Even with full disclosure the attacks wouldn't stop, and we all know it. The fault was trying to frame this as a debate about foreign money in elections.

Posted by: Bailers | October 12, 2010 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Nothing says MAIN STREET AMERICA like Chamber of Commerce


This whole issue translates into: Obama is at war with Main Street America.


AND didn't this whole thing start when the Chamber of Commerce did not want health care premiums INCREASED - and wouldn't support Obama's health care?


I remember some conference at the White House - on the economy or health care - the issues are related - and Obama specifically REFUSED to invite the Chamber of Commerce.


This whole dispute has been going on for some time - and Obama "hasn't been playing nice with the other children." Whatever your position on the issues, the administration should be open to talking to all groups - and listening to their concerns - the idea of not working with the Chamber of Commerce is silly from the administation's point of view.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 12, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

wondered allow should be wondered aloud

Posted by: jjmsan | October 12, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

STRF: Too bad the US Chamber has NOTHING to do with Main Street America.

Posted by: Observer691 | October 12, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Why would you quote Republicans (and their hangers-on) saying a Democratic effort is not working? Not getting it.

Posted by: kstack | October 12, 2010 1:00 PM | Report abuse

This whole thing is just disgusting. Questions are different than alleging that foreign money is buying our elections WITHOUT ANY PROOF.

“The liberal group MoveOn.org is claiming, without any qualification, that "[f]oreign corporations are funding some of the $75 million the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is spending to defeat Democrats."

The DNC advert out today says,

“It’s incredible: Republicans benefiting from secret foreign money."

How can anyone defend this?

“The executive branch of the American government … [has] … publicly accused the Chamber of illegal operations without a shred of evidence, basing their official actions on an unsubstantiated allegation from John Podesta at the Center for American Progress. That is nothing short of an attempt by this administration to intimidate its political opponents into silence.”

http://factcheck.org/2010/10/foreign-money-really/

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/10/12/new-dnc-ad-doubles-down-on-mccarthyism/

"It should be taken as an axiom of political life that if your argument is about the other side’s advertisements, you’re losing. If your argument is about who’s funding the other side’s advertisements, you’re losing badly. And if your argument is about how foreigners might — lack of evidence notwithstanding — be secretly funneling cash into the other side’s advertisements, you’re losing in a historic landslide."

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/249411/obama%E2%80%99s-mccarthyite-moment-rich-lowry

Posted by: sbj3 | October 12, 2010 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Oh, but you see, this follows the pattern.

Despite widespread evidence to the contrary, somebody in the media always starts out the fictional narrative and then some GOP leader takes it and runs with it.

Halperin ignores the polling data and tells us that we don't really believe that corporations and foreign governments influencing our elections is relevant to us. And then Cantor jumps in and runs with it.

This is one of the oldest plays in their playbook.

Posted by: elscott | October 12, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

sub-headline:

Some Pundits say: "I don't have any idea whether the overall White House and Dem attack is working or not."

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 12, 2010 1:06 PM | Report abuse

The GOP and their shills in the media don't push back this hard on an attack that isn't effective - it's as simple as that.

Posted by: TheBBQChickenMadness | October 12, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Obama and Alexrod are some kind of geniuses. The economy remains stalled because of the threat and uncertainty from Obamonomics hanging over the business community, so these clowns doubtle down on their attacks on the business community.

War on Business! It's 1934 all over again. Like I said this morning, I can't believe Obama didn't get the Nobel for economics.

Posted by: quarterback1 | October 12, 2010 1:08 PM | Report abuse

@sbj3: "It should be taken as an axiom of political life that if your argument is about the other side’s advertisements, you’re losing. If your argument is about who’s funding the other side’s advertisements, you’re losing badly. And if your argument is about how foreigners might — lack of evidence notwithstanding — be secretly funneling cash into the other side’s advertisements, you’re losing in a historic landslide."

While I don't if there's a direct 1-to-1 relationship regarding actual election returns, I do think it's an interesting strategic decision to focus on something that the majority of voters are likely to consider completely irrelevant to those "kitchen table" issues. Unemployment insurances, healthcare, tax cuts for the middle class (and no tax cuts for the wealthy!) are all issues that can resonate with a wide swath of voters across the middle.

The Koch Brothers and Dick Armey and the Freedom Foundation and who might be funding the local Four H Club--I mean, the Chamber of Commerce--does not strike me as resonant.

I may be wrong, and I'm not saying that there shouldn't be full disclosure in political advertising (I happen to believe there should be). But as a campaign strategy, this close to November, it strikes me as remarkably tone deaf. Unless, of course, I'm actually the one who is tone deaf. ;)

"The DNC advert out today says: It’s incredible: Republicans benefiting from secret foreign money."

Wow, sbj: is it just me, or does that sounds like a racist dog whistle? What are the Democrats trying to say? That scary brown people might be sending money to Republicans from overseas?

I dunno. Sounds like xenophobia and racist fear-mongering, to me. ;)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 12, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

At the point where you find yourself quoting Mark Halperin with a straight face, it's time to seek professional intervention.

Posted by: CalD | October 12, 2010 1:11 PM | Report abuse

"America hates it when people try to buy control [sic] the government."

NYC Mayor Bloomberg: $109 million

John Kerry: $6.5 million

Hillary Clinton: $5 million

Ross Perot: $63.5 million

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 12, 2010 1:12 PM | Report abuse

"That scary brown people might be sending money to Republicans from overseas?"

That's our "sensible Republican" for ya.

Mocking racism as if it's some kind of game.

Oh wait, I forgot, it IS a game to Republicans like Kevin.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 12, 2010 1:14 PM | Report abuse

@BBQ: "The GOP and their shills in the media don't push back this hard on an attack that isn't effective - it's as simple as that."

Well, even a sloppy or ill-considered attack could do damage, if you don't use a little political judo to leverage your opponent's own weight against them. And, if your opponent insists on shooting themselves in the foot, who are you to begrudge them a little help in taking aim and pulling the trigger?

You often push back hard on poorly considered campaign ads, precisely because your opponent has left themselves open to a solid kick to the middle. Which could be the case here.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 12, 2010 1:14 PM | Report abuse

The only people that can know if it was a flop or not are the people collecting the campaign funding as it's been included in their mailers.


If the attacks continue and the emails continue, then it's working.

It has zero to do with what these people think tbh.

FACT. CASE CLOSED!! *DROOOL*

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 12, 2010 1:14 PM | Report abuse

"Halperin then stated this as outright fact: "It's just not relevant to voters."

Halperin is a hack and an expert only in his own mind. What are you going to do next Greg, quote David Broder? How does he know it's not relevant to voters? Has he taken a poll?

Posted by: filmnoia | October 12, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

"especially since there isn't any empirical evidence to support that claim."

________________________

There is NO empirical evidence to support the claim that the Chamber of Commerce is improperly using foreign money either.


The democrats are out of issues -


The only thing that will relieve the democrats from looking for an issue that will work - will be the day after the election when they don't need any issues.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 12, 2010 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Barack HUSSEIN Obama's campaign spent $760 million in 2008:

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/expend.php?cycle=2008&cid=n00009638

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 12, 2010 1:19 PM | Report abuse

"That scary brown people might be sending money to Republicans from overseas?"

As someone at NRO said, that's "undocumented money." You know, the kind Obama raised.

Dems' baseless accusations might at least seem more sincere if they were not so unconcerned with protecting against actual invasion of the country by illegals, or with safeguarding our elections against illegal voting.

Posted by: quarterback1 | October 12, 2010 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Well consider the source.

Mark Halperin has been sucking up to the right wing for years. If there is any reporter in this country more terrified of the "liberal" label than Halperin I don't know who it would be.

Besides, isn't it a little soon to say if this line of defense is working? It just started a few days ago; it takes a while for such things to show up in the polls.

Posted by: PaciolisRevenge | October 12, 2010 1:20 PM | Report abuse

lol

Wall Street takes down a global economy and now the blame shifts to it being Obama's wanting to let 3.4% of taxes expire for the extremely wealthy.

More fairytale lala land talk there.

The only uncertainty is not knowing if Republicans will have enough clout to let the tax rates expire.

Then this country can continue on. The other laws are written in stone. If they are too lazy to read them to unsettle their uncertainty then that's their own fault.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 12, 2010 1:21 PM | Report abuse

So basically the lefties here agree: "Who cares if the white house is using McCarthy tactics - so long as it's working!"

Posted by: sbj3 | October 12, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

@Ethan2010: "That's our 'sensible Republican' for ya."

I make no claim to that title and, if nominated, will not run. If elected, I will not serve. /snark

"Mocking racism as if it's some kind of game."

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/88/88jmockme.phtml

If only it was Lord Ethan, instead of Lord Edmund. ;)

"Oh wait, I forgot, it IS a game to Republicans like Kevin."

So sue me if I like to enjoy life now and again. :)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 12, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse

PaciolisRevenge:

"A few days ago"?!

From SEPTEMBER 18:

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce accused President Barack Obama on Saturday of giving misleading remarks in his latest radio address about possible illegal foreign involvement in the 2010 midterm elections.

In his weekly speech, Obama reiterated his oft-repeated criticisms of the Supreme Court’s Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission ruling, saying the high court’s early 2010 decision to throw out most bans on corporate and union broadcast advertising buys “overturned decades of law and precedent” and “gave the special interests the power to spend without limit — and without public disclosure — to run ads in order to influence elections.”

http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=news-000003735385

Perhaps you weren't watching Obama's State of the Union address either?

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 12, 2010 1:27 PM | Report abuse

"Pundits and Republicans Agree"

Greg could have ended it there, and it would be a perfect summary of the Inside the Beltway echo chamber.

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 12, 2010 1:28 PM | Report abuse

mikeinfantasyland, thus proving himself among the most economically clueless people on the planet.

I actually hear first hand from corporate leaders why they have so much cash on hand and aren't expanding, investing or hiring. It is the threat and uncertainty of the tax and regulatory environment due to a certain person: starts with O, ends with a, has bam in the middle.

(Well, in fairness, they are pretty afraid of Queen Nancy, too.)

Posted by: quarterback1 | October 12, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Jake - The controversy over the Chamber taking foreign money started October 5th on Think Progress. Today is the 12th. Do the math, if you can.

Here is the link:

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/10/05/foreign-chamber-commerce/

Posted by: PaciolisRevenge | October 12, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

"So basically the lefties here agree: "Who cares if the white house is using McCarthy tactics - so long as it's working!"

How is looking for disclosure McCarthy tactics. Or do you think this is just about the possibility of foreign money?

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 12, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Just as the current GOP is not your father's GOP, neither is today's Chamber of Commerce. They have left Main Street (assuming they ever represented small business) and are only shills for the top 2% and the mult-nationals that are systematically destroying the American economy. The only way this is going to stop is if we instigate capital punishment for white collar crime.

Posted by: filmnoia | October 12, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

It is a complete disaster for the democrats


It just isn't this election - the AMERICAN PEOPLE have decided to permanently turn away from the democratic party.


The idea that the democrats would support such an irresponsible health care bill - and ignore the economy for so long - has caused the American People to believe that it makes no sense to RISK voting for the democrats again.


WHY vote for a democrat - who will LIE during a campaign - and then SWITCH to a far-left agenda with UNCERTAIN COSTS - AND MASSIVE NEGATIVE EFFECTS ON THE ECONOMY.


The democrats simply do not understand what they have done - their BETRAYAL of the American People during an ECONOMIC CRISIS has destroyed their party.


At this point, the democrats for the most part will hang onto gerrymandered districts - and that's it.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 12, 2010 1:34 PM | Report abuse

It might not be working in Rove's, Gillespie's,"the pundit's", or the CC's world but it sure as hell is working out here in the real America. I've had Republicans tell me while they aren't voting Dem, they will be staying home because of this blatant selling of America to the highest bidding foreign government.

Posted by: clintt5 | October 12, 2010 1:35 PM | Report abuse

sbj3:

The difference, of course, is that Sen. McCarthy (R-WI). Liberals denounced his tactics because they were afraid of getting caught, so they fought back like cornered animals to hide their own collaboration with a regime as evil as the Nazis.

Noted historian, John Earl Haynes, after reviewing evidence from Venona and other sources concluded that nine (9) of the people identified on McCarthy's list had in fact aided Soviet espionage efforts and a MAJORITY of the rest could legitimately have been considered security risks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venona_project

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 12, 2010 1:35 PM | Report abuse

"So sue me if I like to enjoy life now and again."

There's nothing funny or enjoyable about mocking racism. It is just shallow and mean-spirited.

Why don't you mock Jews too? You may as well. You are obviously the type. Be yourself, Kevin. Embrace your racism and bigotry.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 12, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

qb hears from people first hand while he's blogging, and stuff.

In reality, Wall Street takes down our investment groups, nobody trusts anyone any longer, and this is brought on by....


wait for it...


one more sec..


Obama!

It reminds me of the leaps of logic from south park.

1) Collect Underpants

2) ?????????????

3) Profit!!!

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 12, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

PaciolisRevenge:

The whole political world does not begin and end with "ThinkProgress" -- there were earlier complaints about foreign money and the Chamber of Commerce -- this fight has been raging since BEFORE Citizens United.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 12, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

@Mike: "How is looking for disclosure McCarthy tactics. Or do you think this is just about the possibility of foreign money?"

Asking questions about sources is legitimate. That's not what is happening here:

The DNC advert out today says,

"It’s incredible: Republicans benefiting from secret foreign money."

"The liberal group MoveOn.org is claiming, without any qualification, that "[f]oreign corporations are funding some of the $75 million the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is spending to defeat Democrats."

Ask for disclosure all you want, but please don't defend public accusations of illegal operations without a shred of evidence.

Posted by: sbj3 | October 12, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

It is a complete disaster for the republicans


It just isn't this election - the AMERICAN PEOPLE have decided to permanently turn away from the republicanic party.


The idea that the republicans would support such an irresponsible health care bill - and ignore the economy for so long - has caused the American People to believe that it makes no sense to RISK voting for the republicans again.


WHY vote for a republican - who will LIE during a campaign - and then SWITCH to a far-left agenda with UNCERTAIN COSTS - AND MASSIVE NEGATIVE EFFECTS ON THE ECONOMY.


The republicans simply do not understand what they have done - their BETRAYAL of the American People during an ECONOMIC CRISIS has destroyed their party.


At this point, the republicans for the most part will hang onto gerrymandered districts - and that's it.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 12, 2010 1:42 PM | Report abuse

The issue in this election is clearly the economy - and what has Obama done about the economy? IGNORE IT.


Obama's attitude toward economic issues has been so glaring - ASTONISHINGLY Obama went before Congress last September and actually declared in front of Congress that he "didn't come to Washington" to be distracted by economic issues, Obama's ego wanted to do "big things"


Well the "big thing" is now a "big loss" - and Obama will NEVER recover.


- Race Relations are damaged for a generation

- the democratic party is severly damaged and it may never recover

- Obama is going home to Hyde Park or Indonesia or Keyna


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 12, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

McCarthy at least had shreds of evidence (even though he didn't have access to all of the classified info).

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 12, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

@Kevin

The attack on the Chamber's annonymous funding is neither sloppy or ill-conceieved. The question about whether foreign money is helping fuel the unprecedented assault against Dems is an effective way to start a broader conversation on donor secrecy.

As can be seen by the polling Greg cites, the idea of giant corporations funneling millions upon millions of cash into our elections under a shroud of anonymity is extremely unpopular. Making it known that the GOP is using this extremely unpopular tactic to a level never seen before in history certainly doesn't seem like a political loser.

The GOP, and their friends in the media (Halprin, Scarburough, FOX, etc) know this, and are desperately trying to deflect the issue away before it takes hold. They do this time and time again when Dems come up with an effective attack. Unfortunately, it works a lot of the time. Dems get tired of having to fight for every inch of the meme (as opposed to the GOP, who tosses stuff out there and the media runs with it for them) and simply stop trying to push it.

Let's hope that doesn't happen this time. There shouldn't be a dime spent to elect anyone to public office that isn't disclosed to the public - for either side - and right now Rove and the Chamber are doing it by an order of magnitude more than anyone else.

It's really quite funny to see "conservatives" or "libertarians" defend the idea of hundreds of millions of anonymous money pouring into our elections.

@Jake

I know! Pres. Obama spent $760 million dollars to get elected...and still disclosed where it all came from. That's a GREAT example of how even massive money campaigns can properly show where all their funding is coming from.

Thank you for that!

Posted by: TheBBQChickenMadness | October 12, 2010 1:44 PM | Report abuse

@Ethan2010: "There's nothing funny or enjoyable about mocking racism. It is just shallow and mean-spirited."

Well, it's a good thing I wasn't doing that. Not sure why you think I was, but . . . sometimes I think you miss the point intentionally. Maybe you don't. Just seems like that.

"Why don't you mock Jews too? You may as well. You are obviously the type."

Hang on, let me quote that last part again: "You are obviously the type."

. . . he says with no apparent sense of irony.

"Be yourself, Kevin."

I always am. But thanks for the permission.

"Embrace your racism and bigotry."

Uh, no thanks. I'd rather not.

And why would you encourage people to be racists and bigots, anyway? What's up with that?

Otherwise, hope you're having a great day. Good to see that you remain as energetic, and as filled with sincere if wrong-headed passion as ever.

:)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 12, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

TheBBQChickenMadness:

Actually, several million dollars in Obama's campaign contributions were NOT disclosed and/or suspicious in terms of coming from foreign sources -- I was rebutting the general point about "Americans hate it when people try to buy control of government." You're welcome though.

clintt5:

Bob Schieffer told David Axelrod on "Face the Nation" that these allegations were peanuts. Any Republican you are talking to doesn't know the facts.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 12, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

qb, I'd wager that the same people that keep echoing the uncertainty talking point Republicans are skillfully entering into the debate are the same people that rushed out to buy guns when Obama became President.

I think you all should join us in the Keep Fear Alive rally in DC on the 30th.

Nothing like a bunch of fear to keep us on our toes!

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 12, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Jake - This "attack on the Chamber" did begin with Think Progress' Oct 5th exclusive.

That is NOT to say that nobody ever mentioned Citizens United or the Chamber. But the White House didn't start pushing this attack in earnest until after the "exclusive" on October 5th.

SBJ - "but please don't defend public accusations of illegal operations without a shred of evidence." Where do you see people claiming this is illegal?

Posted by: PaciolisRevenge | October 12, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

qb, I'd wager that the same people that keep echoing the uncertainty talking point Republicans are skillfully entering into the debate are the same people that rushed out to buy guns when Obama became President.

I think you all should join us in the Keep Fear Alive rally in DC on the 30th.

Nothing like a bunch of fear to keep us on our toes!

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 12, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

The issue in this election is clearly the economy - and what has SaveTheRainforest done about the economy? IGNORE IT.

SaveTheRainforest's attitude toward economic issues has been so glaring - ASTONISHINGLY SaveTheRainforest went before Congress last September and actually declared in front of Congress that he "didn't come to Washington" to be distracted by economic issues, SaveTheRainforest's ego wanted to do "big things"

Well the "big thing" is now a "big loss" - and SaveTheRainforest will NEVER recover.

- Race Relations are damaged for a generation
- the republican party is severly damaged and it may never recover
- SaveTheRainforest is going home to Hyde Park or Indonesia or Keyna

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 12, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

"...he says with no apparent sense of irony."

No irony needed.

You said: "That scary brown people might be sending money to Republicans from overseas?"

You are clearly belittling those who are concerned about racism, and by virtue of that, racism as a whole. Of course you'll try to play dumb. But these are EXACTLY the kinds of comments that make you sound like a horse's arse.

"And why would you encourage people to be racists and bigots, anyway? What's up with that?"

I just want you to be honest with us about who you are. I deplore your repeated attempts to belittle issues that those of us on the left care about, including the right's overt racism. The right's racist tendencies are of great concern to me -- especially since I am a minority who has suffered bigotry my entire life -- and you have the temerity to mock it. Well, go ahead and be a racist bigot. You talk like one, you act like one, if it swims and quacks it's a duck. I'm just saying that you should be honest with us and you should openly embrace your bigotry. Why don't you?

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 12, 2010 1:56 PM | Report abuse

TheBBQChickenMadness:

Obama's campaign ended up RETURNING $5,661,816 in campaign donations (some of those were from questionable or outright FOREIGN SOURCES). In addition, donations UNDER $200 usually slip in under the radar.

Using that same link I gave, however, you can see for yourself that $103,353,467 (27%) in donations to Obama were "Uncoded" so we may never find out how many of those were proper.

While the Center makes every effort to assign an industry or interest group code to every contribution of $200 or more, it's not always possible to do that. PAC contributions are virtually 100% identified, but many individual contributions simply cannot be categorized. The charts I've linked to show how much of the member's contributions have been successfully coded by the Center, and how many remain unclassified.

Here are the biggest categories of unknown contributions:

Those with no information about the donor's occupation or employer, or information so vague - like "businessman" or "self-employed" - that no code can be applied.

Homemakers, students and others with no direct income, when they can't be connected with the family income-earner. (Where the wage-earner is known, their category code is applied to all non-income-earners within the family).

Contributions where the employer is listed, but the Center wasn't able to categorize it. Though we try, we can't always identify the economic interest of every employer listed by donors. The Center uses a variety of reference materials that list companies by "Standard Industrial Codes," but due to limitations of time and staff resources, we can't get to them all. Others may not be listed in any phone books, business guides, or other resources, so their economic interest remains unknown.

Over the years, the Center has usually been able to identify about 99% of PAC contributions and about 65-70% of individual contributions for most candidates - at least by the end of the election cycle. We're always trying to improve those ratios, but the faster the money rolls in, the harder it is to keep on top of it. Please bear with them : )

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 12, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

None of the Democrat strategies are working this year. Republicans are immune from any and all smears and we have the Obama/Pelosi gang to thank for that.

Sharron Angle seems to be the TEA PARTY version of Obama, 2008. She has raised a record amount of money ($14,000,000) in her quest to rid America of Harry Reid.

Democrats may have finally crapped out with mainstream Americans. There seems to be some kind of ideological realignment going on here. Democrats have lost a vital part of their electorate. The party may never recover.

Posted by: battleground51 | October 12, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Greg, maybe the pundits and the pollsters have it wrong. (yeah, even those super smart people are wrong)

Maybe the voters aren't the target of the disclosure rhetoric. Sure, long term I think everyone wants all money out of politics in the form its taken today. Our Govn't is no longer working for people, it's working for corporations, which is having the result of laws skewing to favor business over labor.

Maybe it's the anonymous voters that are the target of the rhetoric right now. Rove has said himself that he's so successful because of the anonymity of the donations. If those donors believe for an instance they would be found out, the shame of funding Rove and the Chamber could possibly shame them irl.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 12, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

PaciolisRevenge:

You think that Al Franken's call for the IRS to investigate the Chamber is NOT based on some alleged law-breaking?! Wow, that would be quite an admission : )

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 12, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

I meant the FEC (although I recall someone saying the IRS should get involved too):

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/70341/20101010/commerce-elections-funding.htm

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 12, 2010 2:08 PM | Report abuse

the WaPo article to which Mr Sargent linked had this fabulous quote:
""If there's one thing that Americans from the left, right and center can all agree on, it's that they don't want more special interests in our politics," Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.), who is spearheading the legislative effort, said in a statement after the poll was released Wednesday."

soooo, Senator Schumer wants to drive "special interests" out of politics.

One of the real joys of the internet is the ready availability of data. Here's a table from Opensecrets:
Paulson & Co $137,300 $137,300 $0
2 Paul, Weiss et al $135,000 $135,000 $0
3 Weitz & Luxenberg $86,200 $86,200 $0
4 Schulte, Roth & Zabel $75,100 $75,100 $0
5 Fragomen, Del Rey et al $71,700 $65,900 $5,800
6 Credit Suisse Group $69,450 $59,450 $10,000
7 Ernst & Young $67,000 $57,000 $10,000
8 Renaissance Technologies $62,400 $62,400 $0
9 Blackstone Group $61,000 $51,000 $10,000
10 Sullivan & Cromwell $56,400 $56,400 $0
11 Kasowitz, Benson et al $55,750 $55,750 $0
12 KPMG International $52,650 $42,650 $10,000
13 New York Life Insurance $51,300 $41,300 $10,000
14 Cantor Fitzgerald LP $50,300 $50,300 $0
15 Lockheed Martin $48,500 $38,500 $10,000
16 MBF Clearing Corp $48,000 $48,000 $0
17 Corning Inc $46,750 $36,750 $10,000
18 York Capital Management $46,600 $46,600 $0
19 Lightyear Capital $45,600 $45,600 $0
19 Rudin Management $45,600 $45,600 $0

sooo, what Mr Schumer is really saying is this: special interests that donate to Democrats are welcome. Special interests that donate to Republicans must be driven out.

for example donor number one above is a hedge fund. There's nothing wrong with hedge funds. There is something wrong with Senator Schumer. It seems he's got an atrophied shame gland. As it he has none. None at all.

This is really a lame issue for the Democrats. If this is the best they can muster in response to the obvious anger of the American people they deserve to lose power in DC.


Posted by: skipsailing28 | October 12, 2010 2:09 PM | Report abuse

mike,

"qb hears from people first hand while he's blogging, and stuff."


No, actually hearing it from clients and other contacts in the evil world of big business. Sadly for you, and for the country, I actually know what I'm talking about, first hand. You can squabble all you want about how we got here, but the current reality -- and the reality throughout the O admin -- is that business activity is suppressed by the uncertainties of facing an admin and Congress who are openly hostile and committed to further regulation and taxes.

Even execs who aren't ideologically disposed against it will tell you the uncertainty created by Obama's radical vision have caused their companies to go into a conservative, nonrisk-taking mode. Make all the fun you want. The joke is on you.

Posted by: quarterback1 | October 12, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

skip. I'd be happy if they were all limited to a finite amount and cut down to two consecutive term limits for both house and senate members. No outside money, period.

Get corporations out of the election process all together.

I think in the end we'd all be better off.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 12, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Schumer has also been a leading advocate of campaign finance reform.

You knew that, right Skip?

Why can't you buy cars WITHOUT SEATBELTS?

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 12, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

skipsailing28:

Gotta LOVE OpenSecrets.org ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 12, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

@Ethan2010: "You are clearly belittling those who are concerned about racism,"

Nope, I'm suggesting that if such accusations are cynical racist dogwhistles when made by Republicans, the same rules should apply when Democrats make the accusation. Why is it okay to stoke fears of foreigners and generalized xenophobia when it's the Democrats doing it?

Or is that not what it is?


"But these are EXACTLY the kinds of comments that make you sound like a horse's arse."

. . . he says with no apparent sense of irony. ;)

"I just want you to be honest with us about who you are."

Why would you think I'm not? That's just weird.

"I deplore your repeated attempts to belittle issues that those of us on the left care about, including the right's overt racism."

Well, I belittle the things I think are wrong, short-sighted, hypocritical, or would be really funny to belittle. That's who I am. I understand and appreciate that you don't like it, and it's not your kind of thing.

"The right's racist tendencies are of great concern to me -- especially since I am a minority who has suffered bigotry my entire life"

I am sorry to hear that. I hope things are reasonably better for you now.

"and you have the temerity to mock it."

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/88/88jmockme.phtml

"Well, go ahead and be a racist bigot. You talk like one, you act like one, if it swims and quacks it's a duck. I'm just saying that you should be honest with us and you should openly embrace your bigotry. Why don't you?"

Dude, you are so far off the mark that I'd say "it isn't funny", only it is kind of funny. At least, it is to me.


Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 12, 2010 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Jake - A few things 1) Al Franken called on the FEC, not the IRS, to investigate 2) Al Franken did NOT accuse anyone of illegal activity.

In fact, in the letter that Franken wrote to the FEC (dated Oct 6th, one day after this story broke) you'll see that Franken writes, "Under prior Commission Guidance, this commingling is NOT per se illegal."

http://franken.senate.gov/files/letter/101005_Sen_Franken_Letter_to_FEC.pdf

So who else is saying this is illegal?

Posted by: PaciolisRevenge | October 12, 2010 2:14 PM | Report abuse

See, there goes that word again.

Uncertainties.

It's all the rave nowadays. Repeat it enough and it'll explain what's going on with this business cycle.


Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 12, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Whoops, that was supposed to read "Dated October 5th, the day this story broke."

Posted by: PaciolisRevenge | October 12, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

"Why is it okay to stoke fears of foreigners and generalized xenophobia when it's the Democrats doing it?"

Because -- see I told you you'd act stupid -- Democrats aren't "stoking fears of foreigners and generalized xenophobia."

Foreign money in American elections is a legitimate concern to the vast majority of Americans and should be.

You mocked that fundamental concern. And you mocked concerns about racism at the same time.

Honestly, what's wrong with you that you think that the type of behavior you have shown here is acceptable? Foreign money in American elections is a serious matter. So is racism. You have sunk to a new low.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 12, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

"It's all the rave nowadays. Repeat it enough and it'll explain what's going on with this business cycle."

mike, you obviously know nothing about economics or business. And I mean that with complete sincerity. I guess the corporate execs I've heard use those exact words are just lying. Why would they want to make money under the favorable rule of Obama when they can sit on the sidelines and wait for return of the GOP, who always destroy the economy. Just a bunch of self-hating liars.

Enjoy your fantasy world, mike. Done with you.

Posted by: quarterback1 | October 12, 2010 2:25 PM | Report abuse

BBQChickenMadness:

Obama's campaign did NOT disclose where "all" of his donations came from. Again, from OpenSecrets:

Incomplete $15,611,429 (3.7%)

No Disclosure $25,289,671 (6.0%)

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/summary.php?cycle=2008&cid=n00009638

When is Al Franken going to send a letter to the FEC demnding an investigation into Obama's campaign? Are you guys really claiming that the U.S. Chamber of Commerce got more than $25 million from foreign sources? That's not what Bob Scheifer said on Sunday when he schooled David Axelrod!

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 12, 2010 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Ethan, there is absolutely no reason to trust Schumer about anything. He's a partisan hack of the first degree. Any "campaign finance reform" coming out of his office is guaranteed to be such that American freedom is abridged so that Democrat incumbents remain in office.


No thanks.

I think that term limits may be the only hope for the American electorate. We now have what amounts to a permanent ruling class. How long has Schumer been in office?

Posted by: skipsailing28 | October 12, 2010 2:29 PM | Report abuse

qb, your clients are very smart.

This last decades wealth was created because of a crazy housing bubble. The consumers of the last decade are gone. It's going to take time to rebuilt consumer confidence and get wages back up to where they should be.

Maybe they should stop looking to blame others and look at themselves. There are plenty of businesses doing just fine.

It's like when Wall Street crashed, they blamed poor minorities.

What ever happened to conservatives picking themselves up by their own bootstraps and solving their own problems.

Phil Gramm was right. This is a nation of whiners.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 12, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

It seems that the attack on anonymous and foreign contributions is working in a bunch of contested elections where the Dem candidate is pulling up in the polls. Nevada is a perfect example where local residents abhor the fact that unknown outsiders are trying to buy the election for Sharon Angle. Same is the case in California and Delaware Senate races. Independent voters hate the idea of political tricks that diminish their input.

Posted by: steven804 | October 12, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

It seems that the attack on anonymous and foreign contributions is working in a bunch of contested elections where the Dem candidate is pulling up in the polls. Nevada is a perfect example where local residents abhor the fact that unknown outsiders are trying to buy the election for Sharon Angle. Same is the case in California and Delaware Senate races. Independent voters hate the idea of political tricks that diminish their input.

Posted by: steven804 | October 12, 2010 2:32 PM | Report abuse

It seems that the attack on anonymous and foreign contributions is working in a bunch of contested elections where the Dem candidate is pulling up in the polls. Nevada is a perfect example where local residents abhor the fact that unknown outsiders are trying to buy the election for Sharon Angle. Same is the case in California and Delaware Senate races. Independent voters hate the idea of political tricks that diminish their input.

Posted by: steven804 | October 12, 2010 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Focus on the main issue.

Should Anonymous Fat Cats be allowed to hide behind The Chamber Of Commerce and Carl Rove, when they are trying to purchase elections?

Why are those anonymous fat cats afraid to revel who they are?

If The Tea Party crowd are against Washington Politicians taking orders from The Robber Barons Of Wall St, then why are the Tea Party crowd going along with The Republicans being purchased by Anonymous Fat Cats?

Carl Rove and The Chamber Of Commerce are accepting huge sums of money from Anonomous Fat Cats, to be used to elect Republicans.
Clearly The Republicans have agreed to let The Robber Barons give the orders, once the Republicans are back in the majority.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 12, 2010 2:33 PM | Report abuse

It seems that the attack on anonymous and foreign contributions is working in a bunch of contested elections where the Dem candidate is pulling up in the polls. Nevada is a perfect example where local residents abhor the fact that unknown outsiders are trying to buy the election for Sharon Angle. Same is the case in California and Delaware Senate races. Independent voters hate the idea of political tricks that diminish their input.

Posted by: steven804 | October 12, 2010 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Kevin,

With any luck you'll be able to join Ethan's ever expanding banning list. Well done my good man. Rove's sends a substantial bonus when someone asks that you be banned.

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | October 12, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

@Ethan2010: "Honestly, what's wrong with you that you think that the type of behavior you have shown here is acceptable? Foreign money in American elections is a serious matter. So is racism. You have sunk to a new low."

Now, I may be going out on a limb here, but did you take drama in high school?

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 12, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

It seems that the attack on anonymous and foreign contributions is working in a bunch of contested elections where the Dem candidate is pulling up in the polls. Nevada is a perfect example where local residents abhor the fact that unknown outsiders are trying to buy the election for Sharon Angle. Same is the case in California and Delaware Senate races. Independent voters hate the idea of political tricks that diminish their input.

Posted by: steven804 | October 12, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

PaciolisRevenge:

I corrected that from IRS to FEC, and there are plenty of Dems who are saying this is (or should be) illegal.

skipsailing28:

Chuck Schumer was first elected to the U.S. Senate in 1998. Way back in 1974, Schumer ran for, and was elected to the New York State Assembly, becoming, at age 23, the youngest member of the New York legislature since Theodore Roosevelt. He served three terms, from 1975–1980.

In 1980, 16th District Congresswoman Elizabeth Holtzman won the Democratic nomination for the Senate seat of Republican Jacob Javits. Chuck Schumer ran for Holtzman's vacated House seat and won. He was re-elected eight times from the Brooklyn and Queens-based district, which changed numbers twice in his tenure (it was numbered the 16th from 1981 to 1983, the 10th from 1983 to 1993 and the 9th from 1993). He has never lost an election.

That being said, I don't necessarily agree that term limits are a silver bullet. There's got to be some way we can get close to 100% voter participation; I'd much rather see that type of solution from the bottom-up.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 12, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

@TrollMcWingnut: "With any luck you'll be able to join Ethan's ever expanding banning list. Well done my good man. Rove's sends a substantial bonus when someone asks that you be banned"

While I don't think he's explicitly mentioned me when listing the folks he thinks need to be banned, I think he's pretty much had it in for me from day one, and if he had the ban-hammer, I'd have been but out of here a long, long time ago. ;)

Because, you know, I mock him. :)

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/88/88jmockme.phtml

How's Mrs. McWingnut and the little McNuggets? ;)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 12, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

The bottom line is that Obama has damaged himself so badly that Obama is finding it difficult to find and issue without looking like a hypocrite.


The situation is that horrible.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 12, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Should the Republicans capture the House, they will make history, by being the first party to name a person of color as Speaker Of The House.

Of course; that will surely cause many Tea Party types to question if he was really born in the USA.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 12, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

"Now, I may be going out on a limb here, but did you take drama in high school?"

That ought to do it.

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | October 12, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

I have a strong hunch that STRF attended Line Dancing School.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 12, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

I have to laugh at the idea that no one really cares if there are foreign contributions to our campaigns. Imagine an article listing the foreign countries/entities along with their $ contribution.

That list would be on the FRONT PAGE of every newspaper and on every news show.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 12, 2010 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Jake - Please provide evidence of Dems saying this is illegal, because I have not seen that.

Of course it "should" be illegal, many people on both sides of the political spectrum think so. But that is a far cry from saying it "is" illegal.

This started when SBJ said the following, "Ask for disclosure all you want, but please don't defend public accusations of illegal operations without a shred of evidence."

Yet nobody here has made any such accusations.

Posted by: PaciolisRevenge | October 12, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Ethan

Skipsailing is correct.


Just start looking into the democratic interest groups - and all the money they have given.


The democratic party is basically a protection racket - give to us, and you are OK - don't give to us, and we will demonize you


One other point - Bill Clinton promised the middle class a tax cut in 1992 - a cut which was never delivered by Clinton.


Do you know WHO DELIVERED THAT TAX CUT TO THE MIDDLE CLASS ?

George Bush - the younger.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 12, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

The bottom line is that SaveTheRainforest has damaged himself so badly that SaveTheRainforest is finding it difficult to find and issue without looking like a hypocrite.


The situation is that horrible.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 12, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

It works if Democrats connect the dots the way that Moveon.org did by stating that a candidate gets Chamber money because they agree with the Chamber to ship jobs overseas.

Posted by: maritza1 | October 12, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Ethan


Would you please re-post your list ???


It is alot like being on Nixon's enemies list -

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 12, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

@Liam-still: "I have a strong hunch that STRF attended Line Dancing School."

I'm think he took a lot of speech classes. Maybe worked on the school newspaper. He was the guy who always wrote the big exposes on the secret lives of teachers and the principal, and the journalism teacher just had to shake his or her head sadly. "Forest, can't you just write a story about the cheerleader tryouts, like I asked."

And he'd respond, "LET ME BE CLEAR. Everybody knows PRINCIPAL JONES is a SCHOOL-WIDE disgrace. The question is, WILL HE RESIGN, for the good of all the exceptional students at Westlake Remedial Alternative School, OR WILL HE TRY TO HOLD ON TO HIS CHARADE OF AN ADMINISTRATION FOR HIS OWN EGO?!?!?"

I mean, that's what I'm thinking, anyway.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 12, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Who are the hidden fat cats, who are using Carl Rove and The Chamber Of Commerce to buy the elections for Republicans, and what have The Republicans agreed to do for those hidden Fat Cats?

Posted by: Liam-still | October 12, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Greg:

The White House is desperately flailing for any coherent line of attack that will pass muster with the Republicrats. Apparently, this ain't it. Indeed, I'll go so far to say that there is NOTHING the Dems can offer that will survive Republicrat opposition. The reason is that the Republicrats are not Democrats at all, except in most elementary sense.

Exhibit 4,986,432 that the Republicrats are poison for the Democratic Party. The White House lifts the deepwater Gulf drilling moratorium but Republicrat Landrieu, contrary to her previous position, still isn't satisfied and refuses to release her hold on her own president's OMB nominee:

"Senator Mary Landrieu, a Louisiana Democrat and critic of the moratorium, said today she won’t release her hold on Obama’s nomination of Jack Lew to lead the White House budget office. Landrieu had said she would delay Senate confirmation of Lew until the moratorium is lifted."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-12/u-s-said-to-lift-ban-on-deep-water-drilling-imposed-after-bp-s-oil-spill.html

For those Democrats still wondering why Obama and the Democrats are viewed as failing to govern effectively you should stop wondering. We have met the enemy and the enemy is (the Republicrat part of) us.

Posted by: wbgonne | October 12, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Amazing how Republicans and pundits would have us believe the American people are very, very, very upset about the use of reconciliation to pass part of the health care bill...but foreign money in US elections? Unlimited expenditures from unknown corporate entities? The American people don't care about that!

This is nonsense. The BELTWAY has decided this isn't as important as the ACORN videos. Or a pair of self-proclaimed black panthers standing outside a polling station in Pennsylvania. Or budget reconciliation, or death panels or Barack Obama's birth certificate or whatever the outrage of the week was last week.

Just more of that left-wing media bias in action.

Posted by: theorajones1 | October 12, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Kevin

You are right - the Headmaster did resign over the issues I brought up.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 12, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Dem Dems is fearing a wipeout for women in the next election cycle and beyond. But they are only concerned about liberal women. Liberals think conservative women are not real just like they ridicule conservative blacks as fake, black people or "Uncle Toms".

The real women will ultimately prevail and the "femi-nazis will fall into the ash heap of history. It's happening already.

Posted by: battleground51 | October 12, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

"For those Democrats still wondering why Obama and the Democrats are viewed as failing to govern effectively you should stop wondering. We have met the enemy and the enemy is (the Republicrat part of) us."

Don't let the door hit ya on the way out!

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 12, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

A typical takedown of a conservative by Ethan:

C: Why is it racist for Republicans to say X but not for Democrats to say X?

E: You are obviously a racist, because only a racist would mock racism. How dare you.

C: I'm suggesting that it isn't racist.

E: Only a racist would deny that racism is racism.

C: But maybe it isn't racism . . . so . . . it isn't racism.

E: If it walks like a duck . . .

C: So it's racist when Democrats say X?

E: There you go mocking racism again. You've sunk to a new low.

C: So then it isn't racism after all?

E: So you are a Nazi, too. I knew it all along.

C: I don't know where that came from, but I'm suggesting that perhaps your orginal charge that it was racist to say X was wrong.

E: You're a racist Nazi bigot. Why don't you just admit it?

Posted by: quarterback1 | October 12, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Kevin

But he was guilty of everything - and the new guy WAS SO MUCH BETTER FOR EVERYONE.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 12, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

@PaciolisRevenge"

"The liberal group MoveOn.org is claiming, without any qualification, that "[f]oreign corporations are funding some of the $75 million the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is spending to defeat Democrats."

The DNC advert out today says,

“It’s incredible: Republicans benefiting from secret foreign money."

Posted by: sbj3 | October 12, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

And he'd respond, "LET ME BE CLEAR. Everybody knows PRINCIPAL JONES is a SCHOOL-WIDE disgrace. The question is, WILL HE RESIGN, for the good of all the exceptional students at Westlake Remedial Alternative School, OR WILL HE TRY TO HOLD ON TO HIS CHARADE OF AN ADMINISTRATION FOR HIS OWN EGO?!?!?"

I mean, that's what I'm thinking, anyway.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 12, 2010 2:52 PM
............

To paraphrase Eugene O'Neill

The lad does have A Touch Of The James O'Keefe in him.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 12, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

All, my comprehensive fact check of all the false and misleading claims coming from the right on the disclosure stuff:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/10/how_about_some_fact-checks_of.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | October 12, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

"Don't let the door hit ya on the way out!"

You approve of what Landrieu is doing, holding her own president's nominee hostage? You approve of Republicrats voting against their party on procedural matters? You think that is a viable way to run the Democratic Party? You don't think this causes the American people to doubt whether the Democratic Party can govern effectively?

Posted by: wbgonne | October 12, 2010 3:02 PM | Report abuse

sbj3 - Your point is?

Posted by: PaciolisRevenge | October 12, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

wbgonne writes

The White House is desperately flailing for any coherent line of attack that will pass muster with the Republicrats.


_______________________

How about pass muster with the FACTS ?


Obama really can't make an issue of something that he did in 2008 -


and that the democrats did MORE than the Republicans in 2004 and 2006.

It just doesn't work. Obama has LOST ALL HIS CREDIBILITY. The last time we heard Obama talking like this he was saying "HEALTH CARE PREMIUMS ARE GOING TO BE KEPT DOWN"

That was a lie.


Whenever Obama starts talking like this, you can be certain he is full of deceptions and lies -


I'm STILL waiting for the FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM.


The ONLY thing Obama has left is a RACIAL INCIDENT - so you can count on Obama trying to start some RACIAL INCIDENT.

We have to rally our base - AND RALLY THEM AGAINST SOME RACIAL SLIGHT.

IT IS COMING.


OBAMA IS GOING TO DO SOMETHING RACIAL -

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 12, 2010 3:04 PM | Report abuse

@STRF: "You are right - the Headmaster did resign over the issues I brought up."

Hah. Thats pretty good. Bad when the resident troll has a more highly evolved sense of humor than some of the resident residents. ;)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | October 12, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Nancy Pelosi is a "Femi-Nazi"?

I guess that would explain why she has been wearing that SS Uniform, and participating in war reenactment events.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 12, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse

"sbj3 - Your point is?"

That MoveOn is making an accusation of illegal activity?

Posted by: sbj3 | October 12, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Let's throw it against the wall and see if it sticks. So many different smoke screens that are so easy to see through.

Posted by: farmsnorton | October 12, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Carl Rove and The Chamber Of Commerce should do the Patriotic American thing, and just show the American People the entire list of donors, and the amounts they have given. Also; they should spell out for The American People, why those fat cat donors are trying to buy the elections for The Republican Party?

Posted by: Liam-still | October 12, 2010 3:14 PM | Report abuse

What would disclosure of donors tell you that is important, and why?

Posted by: quarterback1 | October 12, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

BBQChickenMadness


Great name - it is completely impossible to argue with anyone who has a name like that.

.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 12, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Mikefrom Arlington


You are becoming completely unhinged - it is just a blog - we are just discussing the issues.


You are probably mumbling to yourself too - you have to step AWAY from the keyboard -


Go outside and look at the leaves - breath the fresh air - come back after the election and things will seem better.


another blogger said she was in therapy because she couldn't handle the discussions on the blog - so please DON'T let it get that far - go outside for a while.

Remember white space is NOT your enemy.
________________________________

It is a complete disaster for the democrats


It just isn't this election - the AMERICAN PEOPLE have decided to permanently turn away from the democratic party.


The idea that the democrats would support such an irresponsible health care bill - and ignore the economy for so long - has caused the American People to believe that it makes no sense to RISK voting for the democrats again.


WHY vote for a democrat - who will LIE during a campaign - and then SWITCH to a far-left agenda with UNCERTAIN COSTS - AND MASSIVE NEGATIVE EFFECTS ON THE ECONOMY.


The democrats simply do not understand what they have done - their BETRAYAL of the American People during an ECONOMIC CRISIS has destroyed their party.


At this point, the democrats for the most part will hang onto gerrymandered districts - and that's it.


.

Posted by: SaveTheRainforest | October 12, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Remember back when The Tea Party movement used to pretend that they were all about ending the influence of special interest blocs, and big money, in DC?

Now they remain silent, and are going to vote for Republicans who are being promoted by secret cabals, who are laundering campaign funds, through Carl Rove and The Chamber Of Commerce.

The Robber Barons Of Wall St. have bought The Republican Party, lock,stock, and barrel, and The Tea Party Crowd are completely in bed with them.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 12, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

sbj3:

MoveOn.org is not the only one making the accusation that the Chamber broke laws. I'll be back with more quotes.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 12, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Greg, this isn't surprising at all. I pointed this out to you two days ago that no one would care where Chamber of Commerce money came from, or even about the Cof C itself. Just another stupid step in a looooong campaign of stupidity by my Democrats.

Posted by: 54465446 | October 12, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

quarterback1:

It's important so that they can target donors and intimidate them (and others) from future donations.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 12, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

OK, who are you, and what have you done with the REAL 54465446?!

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 12, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Hah. Thats pretty good. Bad when the resident troll has a more highly evolved sense of humor than some of the resident residents. ;)
----------------------------------
Bwahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!

Good one, Kevin.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 12, 2010 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Republicans don't WANT to know who or what is behind their candidates.

You know, the whole willfully-ignorant thing again.

One has to approach the conservative ideology from the most irrational anti-intellectual view possible, otherwise it makes no sense.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 12, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

That is very Washington Post-y of you to simply regurgitate right wing talking points here. Of course they say it's not working. Everyone knows the Chamber of Commerce is crooked, from the national level where it looks like a more obese and aged version of Eyes Wide Shut to the local level where greasy used car salesmen try to hustle the daughters of the locals-think Ben on Twin Peaks and the young ladies of the perfume counter who graduated up to the One Eyed Jacks.
USCoC=crooks, Republicans have never had a problem committing treason for domestic political gain. Nixon and the Paris peace talks, Reagan and the October Surprise, the Bush family and the Saudi Royals. The game is bigger than just the US and has been for a long time. The GOP and its extreme right want world domination and the return of feudalism.

Posted by: sparkplug1 | October 12, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

While the rest of this nation goes temporarily mad, my chief goal is keeping New York a safe haven. I believe we have lost the American electorate for this election cycle. I will be only too happy to be proven wrong. In the long term, the Republicans are reducing themselves to third party status and that keeps my spirits up. I just pray our economy can survive the next couple of years. As I said though, I'm focused on keeping New York a save haven for progressives in the meantime. I, unlike the Chamber of Commerce, do not have unlimited funds and what I do have is going to go pretty much to keeping my state in progressive hands.

Posted by: plapier | October 12, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

PaciolisRevenge:

"Liberal groups ... accuse the U.S. Chamber of Commerce of using foreign money to help fund GOP candidates, which would be a violation of U.S. election law."

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/oct/07/nation/la-na-foreign-money-20101007

"This week, news broke that the U.S. Chamber of Commerce — one of the biggest sources of corporate cash backing Republicans this year — has been using money from foreign corporations in India, Bahrain, and elsewhere to fund its attack ads, in apparent violation of the law."

Could it be MONEY LAUNDERING?

http://www.dfwdigest.com/forum/view_topic.php?id=11893&forum_id=1&jump_to=119006

"Tax Fraud Charges Brought Against The Chamber Watchdog group charges in a complaint filed today with the Internal Revenue Service that the Chamber violated tax codes by laundering millions of dollars ..." (that was 9/10/10 BTW)

http://www.docudharma.com/diary/23196/ed-and-bernie-take-on-the-chamber-of-outsourcing

9/15/10: MoveOn released an ad tying the Chamber's "dirty money and fraud" to Senate candidates Rand Paul and Kelly Ayotte.

Will you reconsider you position now?

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 12, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

A cover up of the dire financial straits that Milwaukee County is in, in order to give Scott Walker(R), the guy who created the disaster, a chance to win the Governorship in Wisconsin.

Walker has run on the claim that he has been such a great fiscal manager as the Milwaukee County Chief Executive, and that he will do the same for the State Of Wisconsin. He has been campaigning on this claim, while all the while he knew that he has brought Milwaukee to the brink of financial ruin.
http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/noquarter/104647809.html

"Milwaukee County government is in such dire financial shape that state lawmakers should push through legislation that would allow it and other local governments to file for bankruptcy.

That's one of several recommendations included in a super-secret report drafted by the Greater Milwaukee Committee last month. This group of movers and shakers has decided to hold off releasing the details until after next month's election.

But a copy of the report's draft executive summary obtained by No Quarter shows the powerful committee is looking to recommend doing away with the elected county executive's post, slicing county worker benefits and spinning off the zoo, the bus system, the parks and much else under separate commissions.

If these dramatic steps - or something like them - aren't taken county government will collapse, the draft report suggests. In fact, in just six years, the report estimates, the county's pension and health care obligations will eat up every dollar raised through the county tax levy.

"The short-term 'solutions' and one-time 'fixes' have been exhausted," it says. "Without real reform, the County will be forced to eliminate whole areas of service to our community."'

"Michael Grebe, the head of the conservative Bradley Foundation, is chairman of both the Greater Milwaukee Committee and the campaign for Milwaukee County Executive Scott Walker, the Republican gubernatorial nominee. Walker is taking on Mayor Tom Barrett, the Democratic nominee."

Posted by: Liam-still | October 12, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

There sure are more "off topic" posts today than normal. I wonder why that is?

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 12, 2010 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Should Anonymous Fat Cats be allowed to hide behind The Chamber Of Commerce and Carl Rove, when they are trying to purchase elections?

Why are those anonymous fat cats afraid to revel who they are?

If The Tea Party crowd are against Washington Politicians taking orders from The Robber Barons Of Wall St, then why are the Tea Party crowd going along with The Republicans being purchased by Anonymous Fat Cats?

Carl Rove and The Chamber Of Commerce are accepting huge sums of money from Anonomous Fat Cats, to be used to elect Republicans.
Clearly The Republicans have agreed to let The Robber Barons give the orders, once the Republicans are back in the majority.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 12, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

LIam still should take a look at the list of contributors to Mr Schumer, which I graciously posted above.

Wall street is well represented there. It is a myth that the finance industry monolithically supports Republicans. In fact Democrats obtain significant financing from the Denizens of Wall St.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | October 12, 2010 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Schumer listed the names of the donors.

The voters can now decide if they want to vote for him, while having that information.

Carl Rove and The Chamber of Commerces are unwilling to do, what Schumer has done.

Should Anonymous Fat Cats be allowed to hide behind The Chamber Of Commerce and Carl Rove, when they are trying to purchase elections?

Why are those anonymous fat cats afraid to revel who they are?

If The Tea Party crowd are against Washington Politicians taking orders from The Robber Barons Of Wall St, then why are the Tea Party crowd going along with The Republicans being purchased by Anonymous Fat Cats?

Carl Rove and The Chamber Of Commerce are accepting huge sums of money from Anonomous Fat Cats, to be used to elect Republicans.
Clearly The Republicans have agreed to let The Robber Barons give the orders, once the Republicans are back in the majority.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 12, 2010 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Liam,

As I said, GOP voters don't WANT to know who or what is bankrolling their "candidates".

They are willfully ignorant for a reason.

They PREFER that a faceless, nameless Big Brother run our government.

They complain about Big Government, but their complaint is that Big Government usually has leaders you can point to when they screw up. They don't want leaders.

They want nameless, faceless authoritarianism. They WANT to obey the anonymous father figure, the anonymous rich, the anonymous influential elite.

That's just how they like it.

Power to the Plutocrats, not the people.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 12, 2010 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Schumer didn't list the names of his donors. I got the list from Open secrets.

Further, as others have pointed out the DISCLOSE act was a nasty piece of partisan legislation. The exempted orgs just happen to support Dems.

Nope, this is all just a distraction. The liberals would much rather get all righteously indignant about "disclosure" than defend the current state of the economy and the futile money spending done by their party.

this is just the bright shiny object that Obama and Biden are waving in the faces of angry Americans to distract them from the fact that the liberal nostrums have failed and the country is in deep trouble.

Seen the new study on municipal unfunded pension liability? I wonder what political party controlled these cities. And I wonder what portion of the city workers were unionized. And I wonder what kind of contracts got signed. And I wonder whose back got scratched.

Years ago the Cleveland Plain Dealer ran a photo of a very nice summer home that was owned by a mid level county functionary. I could not afford that home on my salary which is similar. I could afford two homes even less. But what was most curious about the photo was the fact that the nice power boat tied up in front of the house was owned by the president of the local pipe fitters union.

There is no reason to trust politicians at any level now. None.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | October 12, 2010 5:44 PM | Report abuse

I think it's valid and important to bring out the secrecy behind the Chamber funded attack ads, however I think the bigger issue is the Free Market machine that is brainwashing fearful people into believing their hype. I have a curiosity right now about Virginia “Ginni” Thomas and her affiliation with the tea party, Dick Armey and the Chamber of Commerce all while being married to Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, who helped to create this whole campaign funding free for all we are in now. Check this out:

http://www.steamboatinstitute.org

Virginia “Ginni” Thomas, a new social entrepreneur and the Founder of Liberty Central, Inc. Ginni finds the new citizen activists inspirational! She brings passion, enthusiasm and principled participation to the public square. With 30 years of experience within the Washington beltway working alongside esteemed politicians like Dick Armey and for institutions like Hillsdale College, the Heritage Foundation and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, Ginni is committed to serving as a clearinghouse for new and more effective activism. She also enjoys motor homing with her husband, Supreme Court Justice, Clarence Thomas.

Posted by: Koshari9 | October 12, 2010 5:45 PM | Report abuse

"There is no reason to trust politicians at any level now."

Yes, we should have anarchy, says Skip.

We should also not have mandatory seatbelt laws, says Skip.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 12, 2010 5:54 PM | Report abuse

Not a good year for Democrats. It is apparent that a once great party has imploded. But it is not a time for Republicans to cheer. They have little to be proud of and better damn well wake up when they have the lead in Congress. Listen closely to Obama and key Democrats. They don't say the Chamber takes foreign money. They simply imply it despite the inability to produce one shred of evidence. Such an approach is the stuff of liars and liars don't do well in elections. I look forward to the midterms. I have many thanks to hand out for stomping on my liberties.

Posted by: donchew1 | October 12, 2010 6:07 PM | Report abuse

Liam,
You are allowing your selective outrage to overshadow your reading:


"But it was Julia Taylor, president of the committee, who recommended delaying release of the report, Grebe said. He then presented it to the full board, which agreed."
"Members of the 32-member committee - composed of business leaders with ties to Republicans and Democrats - decided jointly at their September meeting to sit on the recommendations for a couple of months."
"Mueller added that Grebe has been very careful about not mixing his roles. Besides, Mueller noted, the committee has several members close to Barrett, including lawyer Marc Marotta, a former top aide to Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle, and Jill Morin of Kahler Slater Architects. Mueller said no one used their political affiliations to influence the direction of the draft report.
"They don't bring politics into that meeting," Mueller said. "They're really focused on, 'How do we get this to happen in the best way possible?'"

Posted by: Bailers | October 12, 2010 6:27 PM | Report abuse

Like I am going to take Walker's Campaign Committee Chairman's word for what the Democrat did or said.

Good luck with that fairy tale.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 12, 2010 7:08 PM | Report abuse

Scott Walker(R) has been going around Wisconsin bragging about what great shape he has put Milwaukee county in, while all the while he knew that there was a detailed report being kept from the public, that revealed that the exact opposite to what Scott Walker has been claiming, is the real truth. The report clearly reveals that Scott Walker has brought about the financial ruin of Milwaukee County.

Scott Walker has been lying and lying, to the voters of Wisconsin, about what shape he has left Milwaukee County in.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 12, 2010 7:13 PM | Report abuse

Actually, it wasn't Scott Walker (R) that brought Milwaukee County to it's knees. That die was cast in 2000 with former County Exec Tom Ament (D) put in place lavish pensions and set Milwaukee on a path for future fiscal ruin.
Or ask the Democratic board that continually veto's Walkers attempt to right the ship.
But don't take my word for it:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/104194024.html

Posted by: Bailers | October 12, 2010 7:43 PM | Report abuse

It's nice to see the Reich Wingers getting all hot and bothered about an attack on their non-existent integrity. That means it's working.

It's also nice to see them counting their chickens before they hatch. In November '06, it was fun to go back and review Karl "the liar" Rove's comments about his math showing an overwhelming republican't victory. How's that "permanent republican't majority" working out for ya, Reich Wingers?

Posted by: jiji1 | October 13, 2010 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Seriously, take the politics out of this.

Who exactly is going to do the actual investigation and reporting on this whole issue, in light of Citizens United, when those that usually do the investigating and reporting are the ones who are going to see ad revenues skyrocket because of Citizens United? I only hear people talking about the politics, but it seems to me there is a huge issue here and the media has a gigantic conflict of interest, because if they report on it, then they'll lose ad revenue.

Posted by: gimleteye | October 13, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Seriously, take the politics out of this.

Who exactly is going to do the actual investigation and reporting on this whole issue, in light of Citizens United, when those that usually do the investigating and reporting are the ones who are going to see ad revenues skyrocket because of Citizens United? I only hear people talking about the politics, but it seems to me there is a huge issue here and the media has a gigantic conflict of interest, because if they report on it, then they'll lose ad revenue.

Posted by: gimleteye | October 13, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Actually thinkprogress.org has been able to factually substantiate that over $885,000 of foreign money has been donated and used by the chamber - they provide the names of the companies and the dollar amounts. They have also reported that millions of jobs from the states where the chamber is concentrating the efforts have been outsourced to foreign countries.

This isn't fiction folks, this is fact. And anyone still foolish enough to believe Karl Rove about anything, needs to have their heads examined.

We're headed toward the best government foreigners, big business and the wealthy ever bought.

Who are the "real Americans" going to blame when "their country" is permanently gone, sold for the highest campaign donations?

Yep, the same "patriots" that were apoplectic over the anonymous and foreign funding of the park 51 mosque, are more than happy to sell our elections to the same anonymous donors and foreigners. Pathetic.

Posted by: JilliB | October 13, 2010 4:57 PM | Report abuse

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