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Right-wing group's mailer warns of "Obamavilles"

This has to be one of the most audacious mailers ever. The 60 Plus Association, a shadowy conservative group that's spending big money this cycle, has dropped a new mail piece in Virginia targeting Dem Rep. Gerry Connolly with a rather creative reading of economic history.

The mail piece -- which was sent over by a reader -- features black and white photos of Depression-era bread lines and Hoovervilles, and warns that Dem policies are on the verge of creating "Obamavilles":

obamavillemailer.JPG

The mail piece warns that Dems are poised to pass more of their economic policies during the "lame duck" session -- more stimulus, more spending -- and asks voters to call Connolly's office in protest:

obamavillemailer2.JPG

What's particularly interesting about this mailer is that the "Hooverville," of course, was a symbol of government inaction in the face of the poverty and widespread misery of the Great Depression. But the 60 Plus Association, which is devoted to free enterprise and less taxation, is warning that "Obamavilles" will result if we don't roll back government.

Separately, you all will be encountering more and more of this kind of stuff in your states and districts as we enter the final stretch of the midterms. Please let me know what you're seeing out there.


UPDATE, 2:18 p.m.: As a commenter notes, it looks like this group's agenda is heavily focused on preventing the high end Bush tax cuts from expiring. The mailer warns of tax increases to come during the lame duck session -- tax increases that presumably will create Obamavilles.

By Greg Sargent  | October 21, 2010; 1:50 PM ET
Categories:  2010 elections, House Dems, economy  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Obama: It's "premature" to discuss veto of extension of Bush tax cuts
Next: Juan Williams clarifies -- without clarifying

Comments

No one remembers Hoovervilles.


The only Villes that people know are Margaritavilles.


.

Posted by: LeafofLife | October 21, 2010 2:00 PM | Report abuse

That ain't nothing compared to the '08 NoVA mailers we got from the Virginia GOP. TMP posted a bunch of them. Remember the pictures of terrorists made to look like Obama and pictures of Ayers and others.

Someone needs to contact those who sent out the mailers above to explain that was the result of what the current Republican politicians would have let happen to the U.S. following this latest collapse. The Republicans wanted to double down on Hoover economics and not do a thing. The pictures above would have been the result of no TARP, QE2 and no stimulus.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 21, 2010 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Karl Rove does look like that slimy greedy Potter character, in It's a wonderful life.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 21, 2010 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Mike -- if memory serves, I broke that story of the mailer over at TPM. :)

Posted by: Greg Sargent | October 21, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

A) Everyone remembers George W. Bush.

B) The mailer repeatedly mentions the "Lame Duck" session, which suggests to me that their whole agenda here is to extend the tax cuts for the ultra-wealthy.


Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 21, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Why should Bill O'Reilly and Juan Williams keep their jobs at Fox, after engaging in fear mongering about, and scapegoating all Muslims?

Rick Sanchez got fired for scapegoating and stereotyping Jewish people.


Bill O'Reilly has been scapegoating all Muslims. Juan said that he agreed with Bill. He then went on to explain how he is scared of all Muslims that he can identify, by the way they are dressed.

Muslims come from many nations, and do not all dress alike.

Imagine if O'Reilly and Juan were talking about Jews instead of Muslims. Look what happened to that guy over on CNN. How long did he last after he scapegoated the Jewish people?

If you felt that Rick Sanchez deserved to be fired, then you have to demand that Fox fire O'Reilly and Juan Williams for scapegoating all Muslims, just like Rick Sanchez was scapegoating all Jews.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 21, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

OT:

CO-Sen: "Buyer's Remorse"

Women's Voices Women Vote Action Fund has a powerful new ad hitting Colorado's airwaves, reminding voters just how bad Buck is in his attitude toward women.

"""But before this scandal even made it into a TV spot, which we knew from the moment it broke that it would, it was already harming Buck in polls--just from the press coverage. We can't say exactly what the polls will look like after a week of "buyer's remorse" in prime time, but Buck's not going to like it."""

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/10/21/912113/-CO-Sen:-Buyers-Remorse

Watch the ad here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8m_bE7zDC0&feature=player_embedded

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 21, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

President Obama is not one to beat his chest, and say stuff like; make my day, and bring it on. That was the last guy in the White House.

If you need someone who will go around issuing premature threats, and saying stuff such as: you are either with us or against us, then Obama is not your man I happen to like his calm demeanor, and absence of childish braggadocio.

I think that it would be stupid to start threatening a veto now, before he knows how the election results turn out, or if he will even have to face such a decision.

If he started threatening a veto now; what would be the very next thing The Republicans would be claiming, and the Conventional Wisdom Claiming MSM would be braying about.

They would be saying:

President Obama admits that Republicans are going to win back the Senate, and he will be forced to veto their Tax extension bill.

Doesn't anyone in the media know how the game is played?

Posted by: Liam-still | October 21, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201010210024

Andy Breitbart won't appear on NPR unless Williams is reinstated.

(Yes, the same Breitbart who led the charge to get Shirley Sherrod fired over a speech excerpt that was misleadingly edited).

America Wins!
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | October 21, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Andy Breitbart won't appear on NPR unless Williams is reinstated.

Now we must insist that Fox fire Juan, so Andy can no longer appear on there either.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 21, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Shorter this flier:

"THE DEBT! THE DEBT! That's why we need to keep the tax cuts for the rich."

Totally insane.

Btw, I like the update Greg, thanks.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 21, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

FAUX won't fire Juan, they need him to play 'hapless liberal' for the rest of their right-wing attack mutts.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | October 21, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Yep, just like Alan Colmes, Juan is Faux News' token liberal doormat.


The IRA Terrorists killed a lot of people.

According to Bill O'Reilly logic; we should all now be afraid of All Irish People.

Be very afraid of Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity, because all the IRA Terrorists were Irish.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 21, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Just got my information for annual benefits enrollment...check this out.


"4) children as defined below:
An eligible child must meet all of the following criteria to be eligible for coverage under a XXX health care plan:
- The child must be under age 26."

Yes we can.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 21, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

The only thing scarier than "Obamavilles" is that they will be subject to Sharia law!!!

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 21, 2010 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Not only that Liam. All IRA terrorists are Christians! Oh Noez!

Every time I see a Christian from now on I'm going to think he's going to blow me up, or something.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 21, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

ick Sanchez got fired for scapegoating the Jewish people, just like Bill O'Reilly and Juan Williams have now scapegoated all Muslims. They should be fired from Fox.

Juan Williams, of all people, should know better. How often has he heard about African Americans being profiled by cops, and being guilty of nothing except Driving While Black.

Now Juan Williams attempts to make it acceptable to profile all Muslims, and charge them with being guilty of Flying While Muslim.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 21, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

OT but lookie here what else changed on my annual benefits enrollment.

"Elimination of Lifetime Maximums
Lifetime limits have been eliminated from all of the company’s medical plans."

No thanks to you Jane.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 21, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

This guy's probably going to win:

Portman has added a new quirk to his privatization plan, in a pretty clear attempt to calm the nerves of those who rightfully worry about their Social Security being subject to the whims of the markets:

During the debate and in the “spin room” with reporters afterward, Portman insisted he has pledged not to cut benefits for retirees. Instead, he said he supports allowing young people to take a small portion of their Social Security taxes to set up personal accounts to invest as they see fit. But he insisted if they lost money, the government would step in to make them whole again.

This idea is simply absurd. In addition to the substantial costs associated with a traditional privatization scheme — which would force the government into trillions of new borrowing — Portman would add the cost of bailing out the accounts of those investors who lost money.

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/10/21/portman-security-scheme/

It's not too late to come to your senses Ohio. John "Lehman" Kasich and Rob "Privatize" Portman are bad for the Buckeye state.

Posted by: pragmaticstill | October 21, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

"The child must be under age 26 ... Lifetime limits have been eliminated"

HELL yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

Thanks for sharing, mikefromArlington. Great stuff.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 21, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

"Enhanced Preventive Care Benefits
There will be no copay and/or coinsurance charged for preventive care services that follow the applicable medical plan's preventive care guidelines, as long as these services are provided by an in-network provider."

There's loads of these changes on my benefits.

I think I'll post em all on my blog so people can read em if they accidentally end up there...lol.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 21, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

I've already seem some "DubyaTowns" springing up.

Posted by: converse | October 21, 2010 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Most of today's conservatives would not know or care who Hoover was. They probably confuse him with a vacuum cleaner. That being said he was a better president than G.W Bush.

Posted by: MerrillFrank | October 21, 2010 3:04 PM | Report abuse

"Most of today's conservatives would not know or care who Hoover was. They probably confuse him with a vacuum cleaner. "

Umm....I wouldn't brag about that or think it's funny.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 21, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

"Enhanced Preventive Care Benefits
There will be no copay and/or coinsurance charged for preventive care services that follow the applicable medical plan's preventive care guidelines, as long as these services are provided by an in-network provider."

Did your premiums change? up/down or not at all?

Personally, I'd prefer a plan where I pay 100% for the preventive care and the insurance kicks in if I have a catastrophic event.

Posted by: NoVAHockey | October 21, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

We need to at last call this for what it is: This is America in retrograde, thoroughly engaged in a spasm of exaltation of the stupid and the mediocre. Now, there is a significant cohort of the population that recoils at this notion, and, led by its priestess Sarah Palin, calls this the viewpoint of an American "elite." Well, yes. We have always been called to greatness — we have always been exhorted to excellence. America is an elite nation, and it didn't get that way by being led by people who didn't know that Africa was a continent and not a country. We did not become the greatest power the world has ever known, the shining city on a hill, by being determinedly dumber than the generation that came before, by surrendering (for long) to our most vile nativist passions, or allowing ourselves to be led (for long) by the morons and the fearful. People who wander into each new day, misunderstanding it as thoroughly as they had the day before, did not make this country great. In fact, it is this kind of ignoramus that has always — always — been nothing but a drag on American progress.

Read more: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/sharron-angle-fundraising-101410#ixzz131Qjt6xf

Posted by: pragmaticstill | October 21, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

"But he insisted if they lost money, the government would step in to make them whole again."

That's such a laughably ridiculous idea that I fully expect Palin will be tweeting her support for it at any moment.

Posted by: schrodingerscat | October 21, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Hey, weren't the terrorists on 9/11 dressed like insurance salesmen at the 18th Hole?

Yeah, thought so. Juan is a punter.

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | October 21, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

The economic debate is a bit more complicated than government action vs inaction

The debate is over how effective Keynsian economics is - especially with all these free trade agreements in place.

In addition, the stimulus bill was so loaded with crap that it really is not a good example of Keynsian economics.


The questions now center around jobs - and that is supply side - to simplify it a bit.


In addition, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have to be fixed - that is a separate set of economic questions.


Obama has no idea what he is doing

And neither do the democrats.


.

Posted by: LeafofLife | October 21, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

"But he insisted if they lost money, the government would step in to make them whole again."

That's such a laughably ridiculous idea that I fully expect Palin will be tweeting her support for it at any moment.

Posted by: schrodingerscat
+++++++++++++++++

So Portman is proposing that there be no downside in making stupid, risky investments? We all get to act like Wall Street investment bankers? Look at me!!! I'm too big to fail!!!

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 21, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Hey, weren't the terrorists on 9/11 dressed like insurance salesmen at the 18th Hole?

Yeah, thought so. Juan is a punter.

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | October 21, 2010 3:13 PM

.....................

If Bin Laden ever deploys two gay muslim terrorists, every Right Wing Patriot in America will drown in their own urine.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 21, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Mike from Arlington, Ethan the liberal:


"The child must be under age 26 ... Lifetime limits have been eliminated"

HELL yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

__________________________________

HOW MUCH IS THAT COSTING? That is not free.


Someone HAS to pay that bill. So you are increasing costs onto someone - whether you use those benefits or NOT.


Mike and Ethan - you could have ALWAYS PURCHASED THAT COVERAGE - if you wanted it, you should have gone out and bought it.


Instead, OBAMA IS FORCING EVERYONE TO BUY THAT COVERAGE.


Everyone AND EVERYONE HAS TO PAY, OR THE COSTS GET SHIFTED TO SOMEONE ELSE.


you two really don't understand.


I would like to unleash an entire set of adjectives to describe your ingnornace and arrogance, but I'll just leave it at that.

Posted by: LeafofLife | October 21, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

What's particularly interesting about this mailer is that the "Hooverville," of course, was a symbol of government inaction in the face of the poverty and widespread misery of the Great Depression. But the 60 Plus Association, which is devoted to free enterprise and less taxation, is warning that "Obamavilles" will result if we don't roll back government.

....................

I read it as they being nostalgic for The Great Depression, and that is why they want to Usher in a new one, and they blame Obama for not letting the Bush Great Depression catch fire.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 21, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

LeafofLife:

Thank you for your considerable retraint : )

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 21, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Liam-still at 3:21 PM

I believe there is amble evidence that Mohammed Atta was gay - so your point has no historical revelance.


.

Posted by: LeafofLife | October 21, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

restraint (darn Spellchecker)

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 21, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Everyone AND EVERYONE HAS TO PAY, OR THE COSTS GET SHIFTED TO SOMEONE ELSE.
----------------------------------------
Someone better to get to this guy and explain the principles of insurance. Insurance is the pooling of risks and the spreading of costs to all members of the pool.

He obviously knows nothing about basic business.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 21, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Someone better to get to this guy and explain the principles of insurance. Insurance is the pooling of risks and the spreading of costs to all members of the pool.

He obviously knows nothing about basic business.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 21, 2010 3:35 PM

..................

You do realize that you are talking about Sybil AKA STRF?

Posted by: Liam-still | October 21, 2010 3:38 PM | Report abuse

@liam,

I know--I'm very sorry--for some reason he can screech about most things and I don't even notice. But, insurance screeching! I just couldn't help it. I won't do it again, I promise.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 21, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

LeafofLife:

Let them resort to the personal attacks, so when you and I are the ones banned for simply telling the truth, the WaPo bias will be clear for all to see ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 21, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

What's the latest on the troll solution? Sigh.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 21, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

There WILL be Obamavilles (with fewer and fewer cars) if automobile insurance continues to go up and everyone is legally mandated to purchase that too.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 21, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

12Bar

GET LOST - we all understand what insurance is.

When benefits are ADDED, it costs MORE

Someone has to PAY, the costs go somewhere


THAT is clearly what YOU don't understand


Your ignorance, arrogance, and nastiness are on full display -


What is wrong with you that you would make a nasty comment which proves how ignorant you are ?


YOU have stated you are in therapy because you can not deal with the blogging - please STAY OFF THE BLOGS until you can handle it.

Posted by: LeafofLife | October 21, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

gotta just love Mr Sargent's choice of words. What, exactly, makes 60 plus "shadowy" Greg?

and nasty liam simply doesn't get it. The point is clear as more people obtain "coverage" under mandates from the liberals the cost of that coverage for everyone will rise. so now my premiums go up so that people can obtain "prevention services" of dubious value without copay.

Every time the government meddles the taxpayers pick up the bill. Every time.

Liberals are just not interested in basic facts of life. All they appear to care about is taking money from productive people and giving it to non productive people.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | October 21, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Are Democrats Suffering from "Roverload"?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_newsroom/20101021/el_yblog_newsroom/the-fast-fix-is-attacking-karl-rove-good-political-strategy/

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 21, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

"it looks like this group's agenda is heavily focused on preventing the high end Bush tax cuts from expiring"

well, if these were sent in Connolly's district, I would think it's a concern for those voters. That district one of the richest in the country

Posted by: NoVAHockey | October 21, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

This is another Obama outrage


The liberals CAN NOT defend this - it is just another example of the extreme incompetence of Obama:

Obama last week tapped Tom Donilon as National Security Advisor. What’s Donilon’s resume?


He was a top lobbyist at Fannie Mae during the housing bubble, when Fannie fought — with Democratic help — to avoid any restrictions or curbs on its work to inflate home values and get more people under mortgage. Before that, Donilon was a lobbyist at O’Melveny and Myers, where Fannie was a client.

In 2008, according to his financial disclosure forms, Donilon was a paid consultant for Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, and Apollo Investments.

Posted by: LeafofLife | October 21, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

I would like to unleash an entire set of adjectives to describe your ingnornace and arrogance, but I'll just leave it at that.

Posted by: LeafofLife | October 21, 2010 3:26 PM
======================

Ha hah. Excellent typo.

Unleash the hounds! Let your torrent of adjectives cascade down the canyon! May they drown the evil liberals in the floodplain below!
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | October 21, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

12Bar

Someone should explain to you that you meet the definition of troll


And stop harassing other people.

Posted by: LeafofLife | October 21, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Jake

Did you get your "car tax" bill yet? You have to pay property tax on your care you know.

It is like property taxes on a house, but on a car.


That is Connecticut - a blue State - for you.

Posted by: LeafofLife | October 21, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

TOKYO – Toyota is recalling 1.53 million Lexus, Avalon and other models, mostly in the U.S. and Japan, for brake fluid and fuel pump problems, the latest in a string of quality lapses for the world's No. 1 automaker.

Toyota Motor Corp. said Thursday that it will call back for repairs about 740,000 cars in the U.S. and 599,000 in Japan. The remainder are in Europe and other markets around the world. Honda Motor Co. also said it would recall an undetermined number of vehicles because of the same issue..

...............

There goes relying on consumer ratings responses to surveys.

It appears that pride of ownership was leading many of the Toyota owners to claim their cars were much more reliable than they really were.

Toyota conducted many silent recalls through the years, but those problems never got reflected in the owner ratings submitted to the Consumer Reports surveys.


I still am amazed that Toyota continues to use the slogan; Toyota Moving Forward, after so many of them could not be stopped from doing just that.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 21, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

The point is clear as more people obtain "coverage" under mandates from the liberals the cost of that coverage for everyone will rise.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | October 21, 2010 3:48 PM

Sorry skip but that point is not at all clear as the purpose of the mandate is to require the people that might choose not to get insurance (this would be the young and healthy) to purchase insurance. This, in fact, skip, is intended to reduce the cost of insurance overall. Hence 12Bar lamenting the lack of understanding from the right of the concept of risk pooling.

BTW, skip, what do you think of your boy Portman's latest social security scheme?

Posted by: pragmaticstill | October 21, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

ifthethunderdontgetya:

The conservatives here are not the ones resorting to personal attacks, ifthethunderdontgetya, the new comment system will.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 21, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

12Bar

You are a perfect example of a liberal who claims that the COSTS of expensive programs simply are not there.


The COSTS are there.


If you want additional benefits, GO BUY THEM.


Leave the rest of us out of it.


YEA - THE OBAMA PLAN IS CLEAR - CREATE A FREE RIDE - AND INSIST IT IS FREE


It is not FREE -


The LIBERALS should ALL get the bills - and everyone else should be LEFT OFF THE HOOK.


SEND EVERY REGISTERED DEMOCRAT AN "OBAMA BILL" every month for the rest of their lives - that is the only way they will begin to understand the costs of what they want.


"Spread it out" 12bar - you are a MORON - YOU PAY THE BILL.

.

Posted by: LeafofLife | October 21, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

@12Bar Don't feel badly I take the bait far too often. It's especially easy if you've had a grinding day. Today is payroll at my place and I feel relieved that we were able to meet it for yet another week. Just have to keep on keepin on...

Sometimes though the loons are spectacularly stupid and you have to take time to laugh.

e.g A post following yours...

"There WILL be Obamavilles (with fewer and fewer cars) if automobile insurance continues to go up and everyone is legally mandated to purchase that too."

I don't know about you 12Bar but I have yet to reside in a state where automobile insurance wasn't mandated if you wish to drive legally. In fact here in Florida you have to sign a waiver with each license renewal stating that you have proper insurance coverage.

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 21, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of Hoovervilles...

This is wild:

- Anonymous street artist is awarded $100,000 -

A mysterious French artist who transforms some of the world's most downtrodden slums with his haunting large-scale photographs has won a $100,000 humanitarian award for his work.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20101021/pl_yblog_upshot/anonymous-street-artist-granted-100000

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 21, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

LeafofLife:

Our car is still registered in California (we are just renting here in Connecticut), but we get plenty of other taxes!

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 21, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone know the status of the troll fix?

My guess is that STRF (that handle) has already been blocked. He's just gone onto his aliases, like he did on the Fix.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 21, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abuse

rukidding7

Exactly Are you kidding???


If you are that close on your payroll, WHAT are you going to do when the OBAMA INCREASES come onto your health insurance ???

How many employees do you have??


HOW are you going to be able to PAY for the OBAMA INCREASES IN HEALTH INSURANCE?


If you can barely make payroll now....

Posted by: LeafofLife | October 21, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

"This, in fact, skip, is intended to reduce the cost of insurance overall."

I'd say it's more to ensure money is there to cover expenses for the other newly insured, particularly those not old enough for Medicare, not to reduce overall costs.

Posted by: NoVAHockey | October 21, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

More people should stop eating all together, to keep food prices down for Sybil and her Siamese Bozo.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 21, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

pragmaticstill:

On top of all the lies about lower costs, don't forget that the Dems had to break into the student loan "lock box" in order to even pretend to be paying for Obamacare.

Take a look at 54465446's posts on that here:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/10/poll_dem_attack_on_secret_mone.html

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 21, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

@12Bar....for whatever the reason YOU seem to be able to get under his skin more than others. Perhaps from the many times you embarrassed him by pointing out his ignorance for all to see on the Fix.

BTW do you suppose all that triple spacing and empty space is a tribute to all the empty space between his ears? LMAO

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 21, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

rukidding7

Exactly Are you kidding???


If you are that close on your payroll, WHAT are you going to do when the OBAMA INCREASES come onto your health insurance ???

How many employees do you have??


HOW are you going to be able to PAY for the OBAMA INCREASES IN HEALTH INSURANCE?


If you can barely make payroll now....

Posted by: LeafofLife | October 21, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

NoVAHockey:

"My proposal would bring down the cost of health care for millions—families, businesses and the federal government"

"The costs to families for the same coverage they have now will go down 14%"

Both of those quotes are from the Obama (if you didn't know). The lies from Pelosi and Reid are far worse.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 21, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

In most states you are required to have auto insurance. You cannot register a vehicle without proof of insurance. I have to show proof every 2 yrs here in NYC. Are there folks who drive without it? sure but they are few and far between thus the uninsured motorist fund.

Health insurance should be required since those that do not have it are free riders or wait till they get sick to purchase it. Read Matt Miller's piece today.

There WILL be Obamavilles (with fewer and fewer cars) if automobile insurance continues to go up and everyone is legally mandated to purchase that too.

Posted by: JakeD2

Posted by: MerrillFrank | October 21, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

I don't know about you 12Bar but I have yet to reside in a state where automobile insurance wasn't mandated if you wish to drive legally. In fact here in Florida you have to sign a waiver with each license renewal stating that you have proper insurance coverage.
-----------------------------------
Where I live, auto insurance is mandated.

It's just common sense (if one thinks about it), all other things being equal, that spreading the cost of risks across the LARGEST pool of persons, lowers the cost to everyone, assuming the chance of the risk occurring is random to the insured, but predictable to the insuror. You know, like 1 person in a thousand will contract thus and such. The insured doesn't know if he will be that one in a 1000, but the company can calculate the cost of that particular risk and spread it across the entire pool.

That principle is what the entire insurance industry is based on.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 21, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

It is not mandated where Jake The Snake lives. The State Of Confusion.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 21, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

I'm pointing out their pathos not humor.

"Most of today's conservatives would not know or care who Hoover was. They probably confuse him with a vacuum cleaner. "

Umm....I wouldn't brag about that or think it's funny.

Posted by: mikefromArlington

Posted by: MerrillFrank | October 21, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

OT:

- Tea party candidates have a benefactor in business-funded Boehner -

He's diverted more than a quarter-million dollars of his business-funded war chest to 29 avowedly anti-establishment candidates who have been endorsed by elements of the tea party.

[...]

Some of the tea party candidates who've won his financial backing have built their campaigns on disdain for special interests and their influence over elected officials in Washington.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/21/AR2010102103320.html

"Tea Party"... Hahaha. What a joke.

If you're on the right, you're bought and sold by big business special interests, bar none.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 21, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

When it comes down to it, Hoovervilles were the symbol of the bad policies which were not right for the time.

Obama's health care plan is JUST THAT - THE WRONG POLICY AT THE WRONG TIME.


Obama's health care plan is a DRAG on the economy - precisely the WRONG thing to do in the middle of an economic crisis.

Why is that so hard to understand??


WHY do the liberals insist on IGNORING THAT SIMPLE FACT. Irony of ironies - put up the Hooverville.


.

Posted by: LeafofLife | October 21, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

MerrillFrank:

Read my post again. I said if "everyone (including those who do not own cars) is legally mandated to purchase that too." Under Obamacare, healthy people who do not need health insurance are going to be mandated.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 21, 2010 4:13 PM | Report abuse

"What's particularly interesting about this mailer is that the "Hooverville," of course, was a symbol of government inaction in the face of the poverty and widespread misery of the Great Depression."


This is actually something of a historical myth. Hoover wasn't inactive at all in responding. He launched the RFC and dramatically increased government spending, for example. It's been said with a lot of accuracy that much of what became the New Deal was started by Hoover.

Glenn Reynolds had a good link on the subject not long ago.

Posted by: quarterback1 | October 21, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

All, my take on the Juan Williams mess:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/10/juan_williams_wont_say_he_was.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | October 21, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Could you please explain this:

I'd say it's more to ensure money is there to cover expenses for the other newly insured, particularly those not old enough for Medicare, not to reduce overall costs.


Posted by: NoVAHockey | October 21, 2010 4:03 PM

Posted by: pragmaticstill | October 21, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

BTW: I have no problem with individual STATES (you said "most" though) mandating auto or even health insurance -- the federal government, however, is not given that power under the Constitution -- the court case currently under way will prove that once and for all ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 21, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

@rukidding,

The reason that STRF et al hates me is because he didn't want people on this blog to know he'd been completely blocked and banned on the Fix just days before he showed up here. He doesn't want to me to point out his usual excuses ("I don't know the rules") and his history of changing his handle to avoid the monitors.

He doesn't want you to know how predictable he is.

He wants to dominate this blog 24/7 just like he did on the Fix. Did you know that he was often actively posting there every 10 minutes for 24 hours at a time?

Much of the time, 70% of the lines posted were his. An enterprising poster created a program to keep track of the vertical space per poster.

The blog owner, Chris Cillizza, publicly pleaded with him on the blog to knock it off. Nothing worked until he was blocked by IT.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 21, 2010 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Nothing worked until he was blocked by IT.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 21, 2010 4:19 PM
=============================

This is what happened with JakeD at TPM. Also.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | October 21, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

@Liam "It is not mandated where Jake The Snake lives. The State Of Confusion."

That's some seriously funny snark. LMAO

@12Bar It's hard not to believe that STRF et al has a genuine mental problem. I say this without snark but with pity. He is incredibly aggravating, but unless he is actually getting paid to try and wreck a progressive blog he is literally a....

Definition of PSYCHOPATH
: a mentally ill or unstable person; especially : a person affected with antisocial personality disorder

Perhaps we could take up a collection and try to get him some treatment.

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 21, 2010 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Insurance costs were going through the roof every year, even when Insurance Company death panels were allowed to drop who ever they wished, and only cover those they profiled as likely to stay healthy.

Higher cost whining now, is silly, since the costs have gone through the roof, every year, for the past ten years.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 21, 2010 4:31 PM | Report abuse

"Could you please explain this:

I'd say it's more to ensure money is there to cover expenses for the other newly insured, particularly those not old enough for Medicare, not to reduce overall costs."

One of the other posters said that younger people should be required to buy insurance b/c it will reduce costs. I'm saying that it won't reduce costs, but will ensure that the money is available to cover the cost of other other newly insured people who are older and likely sicker. Particularly those who might not have employer coverage but are not old enough for Medicare, those who would hit a lifetime limit or the pre-existing condition crowd.

Younger people paying premiums and drawing few benefits doesn't save money, but does help cover the anticipated new expenses from the larger pool of insured people and the new mandated benefit changes. They had to get the kids b/c they are needed them to pay the bills. I suppose they might help reduce premiums across the board, but i think that's unlikely.



Posted by: NoVAHockey | October 21, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

more liberal bubulum stercus.
=====
Sorry skip but that point is not at all clear as the purpose of the mandate is to require the people that might choose not to get insurance (this would be the young and healthy) to purchase insurance. This, in fact, skip, is intended to reduce the cost of insurance overall. Hence 12Bar lamenting the lack of understanding from the right of the concept of risk pooling.

BTW, skip, what do you think of your boy Portman's latest social security scheme?
==============

Soooo, let's see here, the government basically reduces everyone's freedom to satisfy some ill defined need for "Social justice".

Just look at obamacare. What a disaster. How many other freedoms are now at risk? How will citizens ever come to grips with it?

And sure you can convince yourself that forcing people to do something against their will is "good for them" but is that the proper role of government?

And will it actually save money? I doubt it. Once people have coverage, even coverage the acquired against their will, they will begin to utilize it. Just watch. Nothing the government meddles in comes out as they predicted. This won't be any different.

Further, the other mandates contained in Obamacare will eat the life out of this nonsense you're touting. If this was such a windfall, why reduce Medicare by 500 bil?

Oh I don't have a problem with privatizing some or all of SS. I didn't have a problem when Bush first proposed it and I don't have a problem now. Tell me, oh sage liberal, how will what is being proposed differ from the deal that most gummint workers enjoy now?

How will what portman offers be different from STRS here in Ohio? If this is sooooo terrible, why did the teacher's unions fight so hard against Bush's proposal? Basically it all gets back to the underlying liberal agenda. They want "equality" all right. As long as some are more equal than others.

And whine all you like fellah. Portman has enjoyed a double digit lead for months. This week Quinnie released a poll showing Kasich up 10 on that fool Strickland. I guess ineptitude and corruption can only be hidden for so long.

bye bye incumbents. When the state loses 400K jobs on your watch, you should lose. Ohio is among the least business friendly states in the country yet the unions here are fighting hard to keep the Democrats in. If they get their wish America becomes nothing more than Greece writ large.

No thanks.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | October 21, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Higher cost whining now, is silly, since the costs have gone through the roof, every year, for the past ten years.
---------------------------------
Health care costs have been exceeding inflation for years, probably far longer than the past ten years. And health care coverage has been harder and harder to get. Those are the problems being addressed by HCR. HCR will have to be revisited a number of times to get the actual costs coming down and truly widespread coverage.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 21, 2010 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Higher cost whining now, is silly ...

"My proposal would bring down the cost of health care for millions—families, businesses and the federal government"

"The costs to families for the same coverage they have now will go down 14%"

Both of those quotes are from the Obama (as I stated, not whined, above). The lies from Pelosi and Reid are far worse.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 21, 2010 4:39 PM | Report abuse

No one has a crystal ball in life. That's why it's called insurance. Even healthy people will get sick someday, it called spreading the risk. Not everyone owns or needs a vehicle.
45K die every yr because they have no health insurance.

BTW What passed was 93/94 Dole/Chaffee or a version of Romneycare. Both had individual mandate.

Read my post again. I said if "everyone (including those who do not own cars) is legally mandated to purchase that too." Under Obamacare, healthy people who do not need health insurance are going to be mandated.

Posted by: MerrillFrank | October 21, 2010 4:51 PM | Report abuse

and nothing warms the cockles of a liberal heart quite so much as a mandate!

Nothing beats making people do something against their will for getting the liberal juices flowing. No doubt about it.

So otherwise healthy people who are now free to decide how they should spend their money must obey the government or risk the wrath of the IRS. So much for freedom.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | October 21, 2010 4:56 PM | Report abuse

in response to:
========
Health care costs have been exceeding inflation for years, probably far longer than the past ten years. And health care coverage has been harder and harder to get. Those are the problems being addressed by HCR. HCR will have to be revisited a number of times to get the actual costs coming down and truly widespread coverage.
===========

Nothing in Obamacare will stop the rise in health care costs. In fact there are many reasons to believe that costs for everyone will rise.

As long as the deciders and the payors are seperate costs will rise.

did you know that according to the Castonguay report healthcare costs in Canada are rising faster than inflation?

Posted by: skipsailing28 | October 21, 2010 5:01 PM | Report abuse

did you know that according to the Castonguay report healthcare costs in Canada are rising faster than inflation?
-------------------------------
Do you have a link? Assuming your fact is correct, I would not be surprised. The goal is to get costs corralled (first), then headed down if possible. Remember that Canada's healthcare cost per person is $3900 while the U.S. spends about $7300 pp.

http://blogs.ngm.com/.a/6a00e0098226918833012876a6070f970c-800wi

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 21, 2010 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Even healthy people will get sick someday, it called spreading the risk.
---------------------------------
You are so correct, Merrill. In fact, I would revise your sentence:

Even healthy people will get sick someday, it's called aging.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 21, 2010 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Did you know that health insurance costs in the USA have risen far more in the USA over the past decade, than they did in Canada or the EU.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 21, 2010 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Shorter Skip:

"Portman is going to win, so why should I bother straining my tiny brain to deal with Portman's statements about Social Security?"

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 21, 2010 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Instead of going to the Jon Stewart / Stephen Colbert rallies in D.C. n Saturday, Oct. 30th, people should go protest Obama in Philadelphia PA or Bridgeport CT.

The "Moving America Forward GOTV Campaign Rally" here in Connecticut will take place at the Arena in Harbor Yard, 600 Main St, Bridgeport, CT. I suggest we camp out on the I-95 frontage road for maximum exposure.

(Liar-still was saying something about TOYOTA using the "Moving Forward" slogan ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 21, 2010 8:02 PM | Report abuse

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