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Rove, Chamber ads widely debunked as false or misleading

Here's something important that's getting lost in the firefight over the money funding the ads by the U.S. Chamber and Karl Rove's groups: Many of the ads themselves have been debunked by independent fact checkers as false, grossly misleading, or marred with distortions.

I've compiled a list below, and the totality is striking. Thus far the media focus has understandably been on the flap over the White House's foreign money charges. But there's another big part of the story that's going undercovered: The scope of the dishonesty and distortion that's flowing from the conservative side of this debate.

Not only are the ads themselves getting widely debunked, but the justifications the groups are offering for the ad onslaught attacking Democrats (that liberals and labor do this too) are also demonstrably false or misleading. We're witnessing a massive disinformation campaign flooding airwaves across the country that could change the outcome of major races and shift the balance of power in Congress, funded by money from undisclosed sources, justified with still more falsehoods and disinformation.

Here's a partial list of debunked ads hitting Dems from the Chamber, and Rove's groups, Crossroads GPS and American Crossroads:

* A Chamber ad was yanked from two Pennsylvania TV stations after they determined its claim about Pennsylvania Senate Dem candidate Joe Sestak and Nancy Pelosi was false.

* A Crossroads GPS ad slamming Sestak over health care reform and Medicare was skewered by FactCheck.org for its "wild exaggeration" and dismissed as "badly misleading."

* A Crossroads GPS ad attacking California Senator Barbara Boxer for voting to cut Medicare spending by $500 billion was rated by Politifact as "barely true" and "seriously misleading."

* Two Chamber ads attacking Boxer for favoring freshwater fish over jobs were dismissed by Factcheck.org, though with some caveats, as follows: "Strictly speaking, both ads are untrue."

* Also in the above link, FactCheck.org slammed Crossroads GPS for making similiarly misleading claims about health reform in an ad targeting Kentucky Dem Senate candidate Jack Conway. FactCheck.org's conclusion: "Don't let Crossroads GPS steer you down the wrong road."

* An American Crossroads ad blasting Harry Reid with various claims about unemployment and the stimulus was dismissed by the Las Vegas Sun for "egregious" stretching of the facts and "gross distortions."

* That same ad was also ripped by FactCheck.org for distorting the truth and by Politifact as "false."

* An American Crossroads ad hammering Ohio Dem Senate candidate Lee Fisher over job creation and tax hikes was skewered by the Cleveland Plain Dealer as "incomplete" and "mucked up with distortions."

* An ABC affiliate in Colorado found that a Crossroads GPS ad attacking Senator Michael Bennet made a misleading claim about Bennet on government spending and conflated opinion for fact on the stimulus.

And so on. Those are just Senate races; I may follow up with House races.

What's more, as I detailed here yesterday, the multiple rationales that these groups are advancing to justify their anonyously funded ad onslaughts are also false and misleading.

This standoff between the White House and these groups has received an enormous amount of media scrutiny in recent days. And there's no quibbling with the fact that the White House and Dems may have erred with their attacks on the Chamber's foreign money. But the sheer scale and dimension of dishonesty and distortion coming from the conservative side of this debate is a very big part of the story. And it's largely going untold.

By Greg Sargent  | October 13, 2010; 2:21 PM ET
Categories:  2010 elections, Campaign finance, Political media, Senate Dems, Senate Republicans  
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Comments

"We're witnessing a massive disinformation campaign flooding airwaves across the country that could change the outcome of major races and shift the balance of power in Congress, funded by money from undisclosed sources, justified with still more falsehoods and disinformation."

Bravo!

Who runs this country? Big Business or American citizens? Who SHOULD run the country? Americans not corporations. How do we put American citizens back in charge?

Posted by: wbgonne | October 13, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Greg - FYI, Think Progress has a new post detailing the foreign donations and expanding upon their original post.

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/10/13/chamber-foreign-funded-media/

Posted by: PaciolisRevenge | October 13, 2010 2:33 PM | Report abuse

"May have erred"?! I that akin to Dan Rather using "fake but accurate" documents against GWB?

What about the dishonesty and distortion that's flowing from the liberal side, e.g. "as I detailed here yesterday, the multiple rationales that these groups are advancing to justify their anonyously funded ad onslaughts are also false and misleading"?

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 13, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

PaciolisRevenge

Thanks for the Think Progress link. I agree with Greg that the secrecy generally is the problem but the dangers from the Chamber of Commerce's foreign money are especially unsettling.

Posted by: wbgonne | October 13, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Eventually we will discover the names of The Robber Barons who are funding the efforts to restore their Republican Puppets to power.

When we do so, then we can boycott all their businesses, and all those who do business with them.

They are not running opinions ads. They are running partisan attack ads against Democratic Candidates only, while refusing to put their names on those ads.

We will find out who those Sinister and Corrupt Masked Election Bandits are, and then we will turn the spotlights on them.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 13, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

"Eventually we will discover the names of The Robber Barons who are funding the efforts to restore their Republican Puppets to power."

Eventually we'll all be dead. Full disclosure NOW!

Posted by: wbgonne | October 13, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

News flash:

It looks like Governor Jan Brewer was correct about those headless bodies out there along the southern border.

"Mexican police official investigating shooting death of American on border lake is found dead, headless".

Somebody tell that smarmy, Milbank guy.

Posted by: battleground51 | October 13, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

wbgonne - I agree. The real issue is the huge sums being donated anonymously to fund, well, lies apparently.

But the media won't report on something like that unless Drudge and Fox cover it first. And the foreign contributions got Drudge and Fox to bite; they just couldn't help themselves from playing the victim to left wing attacks. The question now is whether the Dems will be politically savvy enough to steer this away from foreign donations (which I do think is important, just not as important,) and to the Chamber's secret donors funding 75 million dollars worth of lies.

Posted by: PaciolisRevenge | October 13, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

It looks like the MSM is starting to do its job - wonders never cease. However, I think it is a bit too late in the game.
The only way that anonymous big money , foreign or domestic, is ever going to be curtailed in our electoral process is by a constitutional amendment. Ain't gonna happen - too many pockets to be lined and too many greenbacks. We truly are the best democracy (or republic, for you Right Wingers) that money can buy.

Posted by: filmnoia | October 13, 2010 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Nice Greg, KEEP HAMMERING AWAY at this, please!

Two OT:

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. endorses Crist

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/content/robert-f-kennedy-jr-endorses-crist

Paladino Loses Endorsement Of Rabbi Yehuda Levin After Apologizing For Anti-Gay Remarks

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/10/paladino-loses-endorsement-of-rabbi-yehuda-levin-after-apologizing-for-anti-gay-remarks.php

RE: Kennedy/Crist, I hate to say it, but it looks like the party's over for Kendrick Meek.

RE: Paladino Saga, it's looking more like a slap-stick comedy than a serious campaign.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 13, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

@Greg

First off, great work on this story. It's a shame that most outlets - including WaPo for that matter - are still so clueless about what the real story is here.

Second...I will quibble that the WH/Dems have "erred" by attacking the foreign money angle. If they didn't, this wouldn't have been a story at all. And in doing so, open up a debate about disclosure. If the WH/Dems merely attacked the Chamber for spending undisclosed money, it would have been dismissed or accused of attacking "job creating businesses", and it would have gone nowhere.

But either way...the rampent lying by the right, and the woeful lack of fact-checking by the media is indeed a more important (and distasteful) story. If only we had a free press in this country, instead of corporate owned news-tainment media conglomerates.

Posted by: TheBBQChickenMadness | October 13, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

"The question now is whether the Dems will be politically savvy enough to steer this away from foreign donations (which I do think is important, just not as important,) and to the Chamber's secret donors funding 75 million dollars worth of lies."

To paraphrase PT Barnum, You will never go broke overestimating the capacity of the Democratic Party to commit political malpractice. We'll see.

Posted by: wbgonne | October 13, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Sure, Jan ........................Brewer can't remember her own name.

The head was in MEXICO not in Arizona.

As usual, the right proves that reality has a liberal bias.

Posted by: pragmaticstill | October 13, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Actually, the foreign connection is valid. Check out the latest from TPM.

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/10/13/chamber-foreign-funded-media/

Posted by: roxsteady | October 13, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Also from Think Progress:

"Today, a new report by the nonpartisan campaign finance watchdog Campaign Money Watch found that more than 1.4 million jobs were outsourced since 1994 in the nine states in which the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is spending significant money. The group also found that more than 184,000 jobs were lost to outsourcing in the 22 congressional districts in which the Chamber has spent $4.8 million on political ads in the same time period."

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/10/13/chamber-outsourcing-report/

The United States Chamber of Commerce is leading the effort to ship American jobs to foreign countries. Think about that for a moment.

Posted by: wbgonne | October 13, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

When Karl Rove and The Chamber Of Con Artists run attack ads against Democratic Candidates, and smear them by name;

Why not have all those Democratic candidates go in to court, and demand the names of those people who are funding the smear campaigns. After all, they do have a legal right to face their accusers.

Democrats; flood the courts with emergency appeals now.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 13, 2010 3:04 PM | Report abuse

There's a classic Monty Python sketch from 1972 called the "Argument Clinic." It goes like this: a man who enjoys a good, substantive debate goes to a business that ostensibly provides one, but after paying his fee, he quickly discovers that the man on the other side of the desk simply contradicts literally everything he says.

The customer, exasperated, eventually tries to explain, "An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition." His adversary replies ,"No, it isn't." He tries again, "Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes." After a short pause, the antagonist responds, "No, it isn't."

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_10/026106.php

Posted by: pragmaticstill | October 13, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Was it Martin Short that used to play the SNL slimy lawyer character, with the long cigarette ash, who when confront with prior statements he had made; always replied: I never said that!

Posted by: Liam-still | October 13, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

battleground51,

Cant read? The headless body was discovered in Mexico on the other side of Texas. Not quite Arizona, and he was the investigator into the shooting at Falcon Lake. So what point where you trying to make besides making your self look ignorant?

Posted by: rharring | October 13, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Sure, Jan ........................Brewer can't remember her own name.

The head was in MEXICO not in Arizona.

As usual, the right proves that reality has a liberal bias.

Posted by: pragmaticstill | October 13, 2010 2:50 PM |
...................

Jan Brewer lost her own head, at the one debate that she showed up for. Remember her going blank, and not been able to just read her own notes.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 13, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

@Greg: You can't have it both ways.

"Dishonesty and distortion coming from the conservative side of this debate is a very big part of the story. And it's largely going untold."

Reconcile that with:

"Not only are the ads themselves getting widely debunked."

Posted by: sbj3 | October 13, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Two things Ethan.

First, public opinion is hardly a valid basis for imparing our freedom.
...
Posted by: skipsailing28 | October 13, 2010 2:21 PM |
=============================

Why do I never see 'small government' conservatives posting comdemnations of the PATRIOT Act and the U.S. government spying on its own citizens?
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | October 13, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

sbj -- they're getting widely debunked by fact checking outfits and local news outlets. The WH claims have been widely scrutinized by major news organizations and networks.

Very different things indeed.

So, yes, I can have it both ways.

Posted by: Greg Sargent | October 13, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

@Greg: You can't have it both ways.

"Dishonesty and distortion coming from the conservative side of this debate is a very big part of the story. And it's largely going untold."

Reconcile that with:

"Not only are the ads themselves getting widely debunked."
=======================
There is no both ways about it. They are being debunked but not by the talking heads that are constantly commenting about them on all cables news station.

Rove is the quintessential liar. He does not care for truth, he cares to win and all he does is say it. When the time comes that he is called on it he will say then that he "never said that."

Posted by: justonevoice | October 13, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Be a Patriot and surrender all your rights to privacy. Only traitors to America insist on defending their right to privacy.

"The Patriot Act". there is some choice Orwellian speak for you.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 13, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

"Only traitors to America insist on defending their right to privacy."

A life-long liberal Democrat, huh? I have doubts. Serious doubts.

Posted by: wbgonne | October 13, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Sorry I've lived long enough to see all of FDR's work to provide a reasonable living standard for working Americans AGAIN be destroyed by Ultra-rich Bankers and Corporations.

I never dreamed that I would be here to witness such down right evil!
(and No, I'm not a fundamentalist, but I am a vet Naval Aviator).

Posted by: lufrank1 | October 13, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

They are being debunked, but the debunking of them has not been widely reported on. Viewers see the ads all the time, but they rarely are told about the debunking of those partisan smear attacks on Democratic candidates.

SBJ is the 2.0 release of JakeD.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 13, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

OT:

* Raese, missile defense, and 'lasers in the sky' *

West Virginia Republican candidate John Raese on Tuesday outlined his focus on national defense by calling for an extensive laser-based missile defense system.

A very extensive one.

"If there is a rogue missile aimed at our country, we have 33 minutes to figure out what we're going to do," Raese said at an event sponsored by the League of American Voters. "We are sitting with the only technology in the world that works and it's laser technology. We need 1000 laser systems put in the sky and we need it right now. That is [of] paramount importance."

Raese said the system would cost $20 billion.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/10/13/5284516-raese-missile-defense-and-lasers-in-the-sky-

Lasers in the sky are of "paramount importance"?!

What a NUT!

Nevermind West Virginia's needs! Raese is just another in a long long line of Republican Military Industrial Complex wh0res.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 13, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

@Greg & wbgonee & PR

I agree with all of your thoughts. However I'm not sure where that leaves us. The wealthy are not going to give up without a massive fight.

I've come to the conclusion that the only solution is a massive education program aimed right at the heart of America. A program similar to all of the anti smoking campaigns..seat belt buckle up campaigns etc.

It should be simple NON PARTISAN (both sides have been caught with horrible lies and negative ads) effort that simply advises the American public to immediately mute ANY :30/:60 political ad from ANY organization. Nobody can actually claim that these snippets have ever done anything to actually EDUCATE the American voter or helped them make an INFORMED decision. Let's emulate Nancy Reagan...Just Say Mute. Turn away from ALL political ads...it's the only way to get our country back. The sorry truth is that negative ads, even those with the most absurd bizarre distortions work!!!!!

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 13, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Greg, this is among your best posts ever. I agree with everyone who says, please keep it up. I'd love to see a followup on the House races.

This is so extremely important, and I'm glad to see you writing about it. The lies, the falsehoods, the gross distortions that have been coming from the GOP and the Tea Partiers....not to mention the hypocrisy. They just make things up.

And now to have Karl Rove openly leading the way. Without even going into his outing of a CIA agent, I find it amazing that anyone who thinks that the Tea Party represents the outsiders who are against big government doesn't see the supreme irony in the fact that Rove is so deeply entrenched in the DC culture.

It just shows what a sham the whole thing really is.

Posted by: elscott | October 13, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

"The Dems MAY have erred?" That sounds more like an opinion than a fact--opinions you can "quibble" with, facts you either do or don't accept as true or false.

My opinion is that the blatant mendacity of the ads you mention is ample evidence that on the contrary, The Chamber has presented the Dems with a very formidable weapon indeed!

Posted by: yoadrie | October 13, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

"The wealthy are not going to give up without a massive fight."

Truer words wee never spoken. Just witness the fury from the Radical Right for even daring to challenge the Chamber of Commerce's money laundering propaganda operation.

Posted by: wbgonne | October 13, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Excellent work again, Greg!

Posted by: bernielatham | October 13, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

I wonder what the hell he means by; "a rogue missile"?

Didn't we already spending a fortune on that sort of system, with Reagan's push for a "star wars" orbiting system, and they could never make the thing work.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 13, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Ignore Halperin.

This is a, as our distinguished VP would put it, a BFD.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | October 13, 2010 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Karl Rove; The Poster Child for the Secret Sinister Cabal of Robber Barons.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 13, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: wbgonne | October 13, 2010 3:28 PM |
=====================

I'm guessing Liam was glibly summing up right wing opinion, wbgonne, rather than endorsing the PATRIOT Act.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | October 13, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

At least we know where this money comes from:

"California Republican gubernatorial candidate Meg Whitman transferred another $20 million into her campaign Tuesday, meaning the former Ebay CEO has now spent $141.5 million of her own money on the race."

Read more: http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/10/13/whitman-drops-another-20-million-her-campaign#ixzz12GnmLGiq

Now why would Meg Whitman spend $141.5 million dollars of her own money for a political office? Because she's a Great American Patriot? BZZZZZZ. Wrong again. Because it promises incalculable wealth down the road. Whitman expects a fine return on her capital investment.

Posted by: wbgonne | October 13, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Liam,

I'm not sure even HE knows what he means.

"We need 1000 laser systems put in the sky and we need it right now."

Insane.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 13, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

"The wealthy are not going to give up without a massive fight."

So true. The RNC and that great Performance Artist, Michael Steele, are irrelevant. Rove is basically carving out a separate entity away from the traditional GOP. His actions may be traitorous , but he's no dummy. It's not just this election cycle he's building on, but with the country's demographics moving away from the GOP, it's the big money that will continue to give the supporters of the big multi-nationals a leg up in every election cycle.

Posted by: filmnoia | October 13, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

"Only traitors to America insist on defending their right to privacy."

A life-long liberal Democrat, huh? I have doubts. Serious doubts.

Posted by: wbgonne | October 13, 2010 3:28 PM
..................

Here is what I actually wrote. You claim to be an author, and you can not even comprehend something as simple as this?

"Be a Patriot and surrender all your rights to privacy. Only traitors to America insist on defending their right to privacy.

"The Patriot Act". there is some choice Orwellian speak for you.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 13, 2010 3:26 PM"

Posted by: Liam-still | October 13, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

the democrats should SUE Obama for mismanagement

Way to take an issue and turn it into a win for the other side


Keep on nationalizing that election. Way to go Obama


Obama should have some more big rallies

Obama should also try to say how good he has been for the economy. That would work for a good laugh. And some good material for the monologues of late night talk show hosts.

Posted by: Classic777 | October 13, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Oh and Liam, this from the same link:

"""Riki Ellison, the chairman of the Missile Defense Advocacy Alliance, said that Raese appeared to be referring to DPALs (diode pumped alkali lasers), which have shown great promise in the field of missile defense but - at least at current funding levels for the development of such programs - could take two decades to develop. He said that the development of DPAL technology would be accelerated by Raese's proposed budget infusion (the Obama administration recently reduced funding for the Missile Defense Agency). But, he added, deploying that technology in space would require the negotiation of a treaty among world powers.

"That's a significant policy challenge," Ellison said."""

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/10/13/5284516-raese-missile-defense-and-lasers-in-the-sky-

$20B for something that doesn't work and is probably decades off from initial implementation... and he calls it an issue of "paramount importance!"

Not jobs, not the economy, not the wars we are in now... no... 1,000 laser systems in the sky to knock out a "rogue missile."

Just bizarre.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 13, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

@filmnoia - Good posts as usual. I think you have it exactly right.

Posted by: bernielatham | October 13, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Meg Whitman is trying to purchase the governorship of California, as a stepping stone; to try and become the first woman President.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 13, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Ethan,

Thanks for the post of Raese and his crazy notion that we can protect ourselves with 1000 sky-based laser systems (hey, it's "SkyNet", just like in the Terminator movies -- can't wait until it becomes self-aware).

The craziest part is his childish confidence that the system would cost $20 billion. I assume by "put them in the sky" he means "satellites." Let's see, for 1,000 satellite-based lasers, that would be $20 million a piece. So he believes that our military industrial complex can develop and deploy 1,000 laser satellites at a per unit cost of $20 million? Does he know that Easter Bunny is also fiction?

Meanwhile, in the real world, our enemies kill Americans with homemade bombs buried in Afghan roads.

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 13, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Jan has found a head

But not hers

It really doesn't matter.

Posted by: Classic777 | October 13, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Jan has found a head

But not hers

It really doesn't matter.

Posted by: Classic777 | October 13, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Let's see. The blog topic is whether the Chamber of Commerce should be compelled to disclose its donors. Albeit in connection with an OT, you wrote:

"Only traitors to America insist on defending their right to privacy."

More to the point, you also wrote:

"Eventually we will discover the names of The Robber Barons who are funding the efforts to restore their Republican Puppets to power. When we do so, then we can boycott all their businesses, and all those who do business with them. They are not running opinions ads. They are running partisan attack ads against Democratic Candidates only, while refusing to put their names on those ads. We will find out who those Sinister and Corrupt Masked Election Bandits are, and then we will turn the spotlights on them."

Really?

Posted by: wbgonne | October 13, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

lufrank1 -

I hear my Dad saying the exact same thing that you did....

"Sorry I've lived long enough to see all of FDR's work to provide a reasonable living standard for working Americans AGAIN be destroyed by Ultra-rich Bankers and Corporations.

I never dreamed that I would be here to witness such down right evil!
(and No, I'm not a fundamentalist, but I am a vet Naval Aviator)."

My father is also a veteran. He knows that this is not what he fought for. He fears for the country that his grandchildren will be inheriting.

Thank you for your service.


Posted by: elscott | October 13, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

"Meg Whitman is trying to purchase the governorship of California, as a stepping stone; to try and become the first woman President."

How much will THAT cost?

Posted by: wbgonne | October 13, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

It is well known that FOX news does not fact check anything they do that might not favor Republicans. They, in fact, are called propagandists by most Americans. People know that the "news" on FOX is hardly news and I've been told that anything you hear on FOX is probably NOT true.
The problem with our system is that almost anyone with enough money can skew an election with lie after lie and we are expected to forget it after election day. WRONG! I heard a pundit on FOX suggest that "John Kerry stepped in front of shrapnel in Viet Nam so he could get a purple heart" Really? This kind of trash talk is what we have come to?
People need to be held accountable for their statements and for their money. This includes money in campaigns. Rule of thumb: if anyone runs an ad without naming the people who paid for it...it is a LIE!

Posted by: AZdave | October 13, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

A massive disinformation campaign?

You are talking about Obama 2008, right ???

Posted by: Classic777 | October 13, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse


Oh and Liam, this from the same link:

"""Riki Ellison, the chairman of the Missile Defense Advocacy Alliance, said that Raese appeared to be referring to DPALs (diode pumped alkali lasers), which have shown great promise in the field of missile defense but - at least at current funding levels for the development of such programs - could take two decades to develop. He said that the development of DPAL technology would be accelerated by Raese's proposed budget infusion (the Obama administration recently reduced funding for the Missile Defense Agency). But, he added, deploying that technology in space would require the negotiation of a treaty among world powers.

"That's a significant policy challenge," Ellison said."""

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/10/13/5284516-raese-missile-defense-and-lasers-in-the-sky-

$20B for something that doesn't work and is probably decades off from initial implementation... and he calls it an issue of "paramount importance!"

Not jobs, not the economy, not the wars we are in now... no... 1,000 laser systems in the sky to knock out a "rogue missile."

Just bizarre.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 13, 2010 3:58 PM
..............

Just as I suspected; the same old Reagan Star Wars Fantasy, that has never been demonstrated of being capable of being effective. In fact; he would have the opposite effect, and set of a nuclear arms race, with Russia and China being forced to develop massive launch and war head dispersal systems, to feel safe from a preemptive attack. Once we claim to have trumped the MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) standoff that is currently in place, the other powers will not rest until they find a way to overwhelm such a system.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 13, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

"It is well known that FOX news does not fact check anything they do that might not favor Republicans. They, in fact, are called propagandists by most Americans."

I went to a doctor's appointment recently and Fox-News was on in the waiting room. Fox-News now is the American mainstream media. God help us.

Posted by: wbgonne | October 13, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

How much will THAT cost?

Posted by: wbgonne | October 13, 2010 4:06 PM |

I think Meg is counting on Republicans getting control of Congress, and agreeing to simply sell the Presidency on ebay. Not sure whether there will be a "Buy It Now" price.

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 13, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

WoBegone,

You are turning into a petulant child. It would appear that you have been taking lessons in the practice of inane sophistry from JakeD2faced holy man.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 13, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

All, Sharron Angle addresses Sharia law flap:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/10/sharron_angle_on_sharia_law_in.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | October 13, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

"I think Meg is counting on Republicans getting control of Congress, and agreeing to simply sell the Presidency on ebay. Not sure whether there will be a "Buy It Now" price."

Democracy in action.

Posted by: wbgonne | October 13, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

"It is well known that FOX news does not fact check anything they do that might not favor Republicans. They, in fact, are called propagandists by most Americans."

I went to a doctor's appointment recently and Fox-News was on in the waiting room. Fox-News now is the American mainstream media. God help us.

Posted by: wbgonne | October 13, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

P.S.

And this was in Boston! What's next, San Francisco?!

Posted by: wbgonne | October 13, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Greg has made a great point and Dems need to hammer this point home from now until November 2. GOP: Show me your donors!!!

Posted by: LAB2 | October 13, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Greg has made a great point and Dems need to hammer this point home from now until November 2. GOP: Show me your donors!!!

Posted by: LAB2 | October 13, 2010 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Thanks to the hideous Citizens United decision that the activist right wing Supreme Court justices passed recently, the Extremist Republican party already has been spending billions in anti Dem ads with the cash backing of foreign and domestic Mega Corporations and Big Oil cash laundered through the Anti US Chamber of Commerce. And they also have the right wing oil billionaire Koch Brothers and their front men KKKarl Rove and Eddie Gillespie busy buying up Senate and House seats with their billions for the extremist Republican party all over America right now.

Welcome to a new kind of democracy America, it's called right wing 'fascism'. And if we don't do something about it before to long - We. Are. All. Screwed.


Evidence That Foreign Companies Gave At Least $885,000 to the Anti US Chamber Of Commerce

Exclusive: Anti US Chamber of Commerce Receives At Least $885,000 From Over 80 Foreign Companies In Disclosed Donations Alone

"In addition to multinational members of the Chamber headquartered abroad (like BP, Shell Oil, and Siemens), a new ThinkProgress investigation has identified at least 84 other foreign companies that actively donate to the Chamber’s 501(c)(6)."

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/10/13/chamber-foreign-funded-media/

.

Posted by: DrainYou | October 13, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Wonderful Jon Stewart piece on

a - Rove and FOX wondering about foreign funding (mosque)

b - Rove and FOX not interested in foreign funding (Chamber of Commerce)

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/10/13/stewart-chamber/

Posted by: bernielatham | October 13, 2010 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Howard Fineman had a quirky piece up today somewhere. Imagine 2012, Obams runs uncontested, 4-5 Republican candidates running in the primary, they all swift boat each other and no one knows where the money or the lies are coming from. Ironic.

Posted by: lmsinca | October 13, 2010 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Obams=Obama, sheesh, I'm as bad as 37th/STR/barkobama/C777.

Posted by: lmsinca | October 13, 2010 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Mr. Sargent, truth and reality don't matter to the right - they only want to hear what they want to hear - facts have no meaning. How else do you explain the birther nonsense, the taxed too much already crowd (that are playing the lowest taxes in 40 years), the folks that claim sharia law is being used in the US. Facts just don't matter - all that matters is that THEY'RE MAD!!! They're sore losers that will, more likely than not, vote and elect people that are wholly responsible for all of the things they're so angry about. They're the lowest common denominator, the intellectually lazy, the most gullible. Bless their hearts...

Prove me wrong lemmings - read thinkprogess.orgs reports on the chamber and the campaign donations - complete with facts - and see if you don't see "your country" sliding through your fingers.

Posted by: JilliB | October 13, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

JilliB:

Have you even read my prior posts on the U.S. Chamber of Commerce vs. Obama's 2008 "disclosures"?

As for the birther "nonsense", I explain that because of Obama refusing to release his original vital records; if he did that, I wouldn't ask another question about his eligibility. I'd be happy to discuss the rest of your post, as long as you agree to answer my questions to you in a civil manner too : )

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 13, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse

jakeD2 wrote:

"As for the birther "nonsense", I explain that because of Obama refusing to release his original vital records; if he did that, I wouldn't ask another question about his eligibility. I'd be happy to discuss the rest of your post, as long as you agree to answer my questions to you in a civil manner too : )"

Hey jake, I know you don't like me anymore, but I'll answer that yes I am 100% certain the president was born in Hawaii. Now, as the kids say, are we tight? LOL

Posted by: 54465446 | October 13, 2010 5:51 PM | Report abuse

LAB2 wrote:

"Greg has made a great point and Dems need to hammer this point home from now until November 2. GOP: Show me your donors!!!"

Nope, that's as losing an argument as you could ever possibly want. On our plate we currently have 10% unemployment, Afghanistan, tax cuts, mortgae foreclosures, and health care. To think that voters amid all that would care about foreign donors, is navel gazing at best and lunacy at worst.

Posted by: 54465446 | October 13, 2010 5:56 PM | Report abuse

When we do so, then we can boycott all their businesses, and all those who do business with them.
We will find out who those Sinister and Corrupt Masked Election Bandits are, and then we will turn the spotlights on them.
Posted by: Liam-still
______________________________

Gee, and I wonder why business owners are reluctant to put their names in public?

This is like 6th grade. Are you really saying that the only solution is to punish people for their beliefs? That you are willing to sacrifice the concept of rigourous debate because you disagree with the messenger?

Whatever happened to "I may disagree with what you say, but will defend your right to the death to say it?"

Posted by: Bailers | October 13, 2010 6:01 PM | Report abuse

Is the MSM going to let Rove get away with his lies again? Doesn't anyone remember how we got into the Iraq War? If anyone should, it should be the MSM. They are the ones who reported all the misinformation coming from his White House, and look where that got us. I don't know who's worse -- Rove or the gullible MSM.

Posted by: lddoyle2002 | October 13, 2010 6:04 PM | Report abuse

54465446:

There were two (2) follow-up questions I asked to that answer, which you have not answered -- unless I missed that for which I offer my apologies in advance -- until I see those answers, however, I am no longer answering your (later-asked) questions.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 13, 2010 6:09 PM | Report abuse

OK, lddoyle2002, let's take them one by one. Is the following a "lie" in your opinion?

"The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

You also don't have to believe just me:

http://www.factcheck.org/bushs_16_words_on_iraq_uranium.html

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 13, 2010 6:27 PM | Report abuse

How about this one?

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow."

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 13, 2010 6:30 PM | Report abuse

Jake:

we've been on too many threads, not sure where anything is. Ask away, I'll be on and off all night.

Posted by: 54465446 | October 13, 2010 7:00 PM | Report abuse

I haven't been on too many threads.

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 13, 2010 8:05 PM | Report abuse

Yes, by all means - lets ignore the baselessness of the attacks - the fact that Axelrod thinks that it's up to the US Chamber of Commerece to prove that they aren't using foreign money in their ad buys.

Let's ignore that this is a purely partisan attack, orignated by a liberal group - which doesn't disclose it's own donors (talk about being hypocritical) - or the fact that the Obama campaign took in millions of questionable donations during the 2008 campaign.

And instead - lets talk about those nasty adds the US Chamber of Commerce is running.

So - to toe the Democratic Party line - just because the charges are baseless and without fact - doesn't mean they're not incorrect...

Nice.

Posted by: flintdavis | October 13, 2010 9:10 PM | Report abuse

Greg:

This just in:
Today, along with Public Citizen, Protect Our Elections and American Crossroads Watch, Prosperity Agenda filed a complaint with the Federal Elections Commission. You can see the complaint here. The complaint alleges that big business interests are using non-profit front groups to hide their donations in an effort to dominate the elections anonymously. They do not want voters to know they are working for private profit and not for the public good. This is a misuse of the tax law and violates federal elections laws. As you can see there is strong case law on our side as the actions of American Crossroads GPS are way over the legal line. http://www.prosperityagenda.us/

Posted by: valkayec | October 13, 2010 9:54 PM | Report abuse

Someone was arguing yesterday that "no one is claiming what American Crossroads is doing violates the law".

Posted by: clawrence12 | October 13, 2010 10:40 PM | Report abuse

Greg - great report. PLEASE stay on this story and follow it to whereEVER it may lead . . . and if we're lucky, maybe it'll even lead to long overdue prosecutions of pathological lying traitors like Karl Rove.

Posted by: Bugs222 | October 14, 2010 1:11 AM | Report abuse

Rove and the Baggers should be in jail, not working angles on the citizens.

Posted by: jimbobkalina1 | October 14, 2010 5:06 AM | Report abuse

As a Chamber member I'm very embarrassed by the behavior of the US Chamber and its leadership. We need new leadership - at the Chamber. Obama is right on this one.

Posted by: jay_casey | October 14, 2010 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Bugs222 and jimbobkalina1:

Maybe Obama will finally prosecute Rove, maybe that's why he's kept GTMO open (keep hope alive ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | October 14, 2010 10:59 AM | Report abuse

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