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Happy Hour Roundup

* The Aqua Buddha wars continue to rage with this new ad from Rand Paul blasting Jack Conway for questioning his faith:

National Republicans insist that the Conway Aqua Buddha ad has backfired, driving up Conway's negatives. This new spot from Paul either confirms that Republicans think the issue is working in their favor or signals that the Paul camp is on the defensive over it.

* And: Paul will debate Conway after all.

* Maybe Obama should listen to what GOP Rep. Mike Pence has to say the next time he's tempted to imagine that there's going to be a post-election period of bipartisan compromise:

"Look, the time to go along and get along is over. House Republicans know that."

* Eric Kleefeld explains why Joe Sestak is surging.

* And Chris Bowers counts up all the severely flawed polls that show Sestak closing and Pat Toomey's lead collapsing, and counsels us to ignore them all.

* Sam Stein patiently explains why AFSCME's big spending in the elections is not remotely comparable to that of non-disclosing conservative groups.

* Many House Dems have run screaming from any fight over the Bush tax cuts, but in one House district labor is using the issue as a cudgel against the GOP candidate.

* Bill Clinton is baffled that Dems are blowing it by failing to sell their accomplishments.

* Lukewarm Tea: E.J. Dionne keeps hitting the crucial point that the Tea Party is really not the novel, earthshakingly massive and historically significant political movement that some commentators keep claiming it is.

* Stirrings? An expert in female voting trends tells ABC's Top Line that unmarried women, a key demographic, are starting to come back home to Dems at 2008 levels.

* Shadow operation: Karl Rove's groups have spent more on Senate races than the NRSC has.

* Amanda Terkel notes an important trend: The rise of one-donor Super PACs.

* And thousands of Tea Partyers gnash their teeth as GOP Rep. Darrell Issa takes impeachment off the table.

What else is happening?

By Greg Sargent  | October 22, 2010; 6:12 PM ET
Categories:  2010 elections, Campaign finance, Happy Hour Roundup, House GOPers, Senate Dems, Senate Republicans, Tea Party  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Juan Williams gets it right
Next: Open Thread

Comments

This election is ALL about the economy - and the American People have REJECTED Obama and the democrats.

The American People want a government which is going to FOCUS on the economy.


Obama's arrogance hurt the democratic party - and Obama has destroyed liberalism itself


Yes


WE ARE TAKING OUR NATION BACK !!!!!

Posted by: LeafofLife | October 22, 2010 6:18 PM | Report abuse

I just voted! Straight Dem ticket!

God Bless America!

Have a great weekend all.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | October 22, 2010 6:20 PM | Report abuse


ALL

Is something going to be done about the personal attacks on this blog???

People on this blog claimed how intelligent and serious their discussions were - I haven't seen it.


On the rules - there is little enforcement - so who knows what the rules are ???

Posted by: LeafofLife | October 22, 2010 6:21 PM | Report abuse

4:00 p.m.: "IT IS ABOUT TIME THAT LIBERALS STOP TRYING TO SAY WHAT SPEECH IS WRONG AND WHAT SPEECH IS RIGHT"

6:21 p.m.: "Is something going to be done about the personal attacks on this blog???"

Chronic cognitive dissonance.

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 22, 2010 6:31 PM | Report abuse

On the rules - there is little enforcement - so who knows what the rules are ???
--------------------------------------
Excuse List:

#1. I don't know what the rules are.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 6:36 PM | Report abuse

If the discussion were limited to intelligent discussion, there wouldn't be conservatives at all. It would probably be some dry discussion over whether to spend the new trillion dollar stimulus on green technology investment or on infrastructure.

The "debate" here is only lively because you have a bunch of people who have a world view that is informed by Glen Beck rather than any real expertise on anything.

Posted by: DDAWD | October 22, 2010 6:41 PM | Report abuse

Obama is must be joking (and I suspect he doesn't really believe...) if he thinks the GOP will *ever* play along with/compromise in any meaningful way with his Admin. Isn't it already patenetly obvious?
Thus, the only thing I can think is that he is simply drawing as stark a contrast as he can with Democratic willingness to tackle extremely tough issues and the The Party Of No.

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | October 22, 2010 6:42 PM | Report abuse

Is Darrell Issa a despicable liberal because he has concluded that policy differences aren't enough to warrant impeachment proceedings against Obama?

Is he violating the First Amendment rights of the peetardiers by "taking impeachment off the table?"

Discuss.

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 22, 2010 6:46 PM | Report abuse

Can't Issa just go ahead and do all the impeachment paperwork and hearings and so on and just not fill in the charges until later?

I mean, how hard can this be?

Posted by: BGinCHI | October 22, 2010 6:50 PM | Report abuse

ChuckinDenton

I don't think Obama really was expecting the entire Republican party to ever go along with him, but I think he felt like he could usually peel off one or two. I think the big surprise is how pretty much the entire party has been so unified in its obstructionism.

And if that's what Obama was thinking, he wouldn't have been the only one. Amy Klobachar came and visited us in New Orleans and was talking about how the Dems really only need like two or three more Senators to overcome these filibusters because when the Dems had 50, some Republicans would cross over. Never enough to break the filibusters, but pretty close. And even I thought the 60 number was overrated due to this fact, but it turns out not to be true. Pretty much 100% of the Republican party has been recalcitrant and I don't know that anyone really expected this.

Posted by: DDAWD | October 22, 2010 6:53 PM | Report abuse

California Republican Rep. Darrell Issa, who will run the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee if Republicans take over the House, is promising that he and his party will not move to impeach President Obama - at least as things now stand.

"Not a chance at this point. I don't see it happening," Issa said in an interview with Bloomberg's "Political Capital" that will air over the weekend and was reported by The Hill.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20020489-503544.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody
----------------------------------
I wonder is Issa's first name isn't Remember?


Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 6:56 PM | Report abuse

skipsailing28 wrote,
"So I'll repeat: if we cannot demonstrate that we've withdrawn our consent to be governed by this pack of crooks and liars, what alternative is there?

"If election laws are ignored or unenforced, if rampant cheating is widely acknowledged, if the government continues its long train of abuses and usurpations and the process of voting is so tainted as to be rendered illegitimate, what other course recommends itself."

also----

"here's another example of vote rigging in action:

'The issue started when employees at the board noticed a number of applications for absentee ballots were going to one of two post office box numbers. When voters apply for an absentee ballot, they are allowed to have the ballot sent to an address other than their home location.

'After elections board workers noticed the same post office boxes appeared repeatedly, they started to make random calls to confirm whether the voters wanted their ballots sent to their home or the second address, according to Cathy Overbeck, elections board director.

On most calls the workers found that the phones were disconnected. Those they did get in touch with said they wanted the ballot sent to their home address.

But all of the applications had listed that the absentee ballots were to be sent either in care of Russ Bennett, P.O. Box 829 Proctorville or Charles Maynard P.O. Box 4616, Ironton.'"
============================

As if that isn't bad enough, libs can chew on this:

"There are various allegations of possible voter fraud across the country, against both parties, but nowhere does there seem to be a more unusual case than in Troy, New York.

"A special prosecutor investigating allegations of voter fraud, Trey Smith, is collecting DNA from the majority of the city council...all Democrats. Five city councilmen, including the council president, as well as four other city and county public officials and political operatives, have been ordered to or have had their saliva swabbed for DNA samples to compare to absentee ballots and absentee ballot applications that were allegedly forged.

"The investigation centers on what has been called "a massive voter fraud scheme," that involved absentee ballots for the Working Families Party, in September 2009. It has been alleged that Democrats tried to steal the primary election for city council and county legislature, by forging absentee ballots and ballot applications to ensure that their candidates also won the Working Families Party primary line.

"'No comment,' is what Democratic Council member Gary Galuski told us, as well as several other public officials who are under investigation." ---Eric Shawn

Actual voters listed on the fraudulent ballots were contacted and said the ballots were not theirs.

The Democratic Party is crooked and corrupt from top to bottom. This is why people speak of second ammendment solutions.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 7:12 PM | Report abuse

Chris Coons is up with a great ad, featuring choice quotes from Christine O'Donnell, including the "mice with fully functioning human brains" quote (and a cute picture to go with it).

Of course, Christine will probably have a $2 million Fox contract awaiting her on Nov. 3 . . .

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 22, 2010 7:13 PM | Report abuse

The Humane Society has decided to get involved in the Louisiana Senate race. In favor of Vitter...

Posted by: DDAWD | October 22, 2010 7:18 PM | Report abuse

“There is nothing more painful to me … than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”--- Jesse Jackson

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 7:18 PM | Report abuse

"There are various allegations of possible voter fraud across the country, against both parties, but nowhere does there seem to be a more unusual case than in Troy, New York.
--------------------------------------

@brigade,

Your conclusion from the above story is that, to quote you, "The Democratic Party is crooked and corrupt from top to bottom. This is why people speak of second ammendment solutions."

Is that right?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 7:19 PM | Report abuse

DDAWD said: "Pretty much 100% of the Republican party has been recalcitrant and I don't know that anyone really expected this."

This matches my notions pretty closely. Though most of us understood from prior behaviors that Republicans would obstruct, the level of it and the solidarity with which is was maintained - particularly in the midst of a economic crisis - took me by surprise. There's a level of cynicism here which I didn't think even these folks could manage.

And Obama had and continues to have a real problem in this regard. How can he, as a responsible President, accept and validate the framing that the nation has no other destiny than hate-filled and intractable division?

Posted by: bernielatham | October 22, 2010 7:20 PM | Report abuse

"...rather than any real expertise on anything."

Hi DDawg! Hey, could you share with your fellow PL'ers your take on what you see as interesting and promising investment opportunities in green technology?

Equities lately seem to be, well ya know, not really the best place to invest, so any guidance on what the R&D and green/tech earnings trajectories might be would be super.

thnx, dawg

Posted by: tao9 | October 22, 2010 7:22 PM | Report abuse

Chris Coons is up with a great ad, featuring choice quotes from Christine O'Donnell, including the "mice with fully functioning human brains" quote (and a cute picture to go with it).
--------------------------------
Bearclaw meant to post the link to this exxxxxxxxcellent ad.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/10/chris-coons-ad-hits-odonnell-on-withcraft-evolution-mice-with-human-brains-video.php?ref=tn

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 7:22 PM | Report abuse

Chuck we know Rs agenda in 2011.
1. Threaten the violent overthrow of the govt if they don t get their way;
2. Impeachment proceedings;
3/ Supoena everything and everyone connected with the adminisytation and
4. If that doesm t work Shut it Dowm. Unemployment benefits, Social Security Checks, The Dept of Education the Dept of Education.
5. The GOP plan for the economy: 0 Cap Gains Taxes and a 23% Flat tax. Since most Americans pay an average of 15% in federal income taxes that woulod mean a 70% tax increase for 90% of Americans and for those in the 37% tax rate a 40% cut. Think about it, a 23% sales tax on your new car purchases and a 23% sales tax on your purchase of a new home. The GOP flat tax plan will destroy the residential home market and the recoverying auto industry, but as long as the GOP delivers 0% Cap gains and a 40% tax cut for their Chamber supporters like Bob Perry everything will be fine in America.

Tell us Chuck how what I posted is not the basis of the so called GOP plan for our country since we have nothing from any GOP candidate about their so called Pledge.
a 40% tax cut.

Posted by: leichtman1 | October 22, 2010 7:24 PM | Report abuse

The salient fact of American politics is that there are fifty to seventy million voters each of whom will volunteer to live, with his family, in a cardboard box under an overpass, and cook sparrows on an old curtain rod, if someone would only guarantee that the black, gay, Hispanic, liberal, whatever, in the next box over doesn't even have a curtain rod, or a sparrow to put on it.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | October 22, 2010
-------

And every last one of the fifty to seventy million is a D-bagging liberal. If they weren't deadbeats, they wouldn't have to volunteer to live in cardboard boxes. As it is, the boxes would probably being a step up in their standard of living.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 7:26 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, 12Bar. How I wish that ad were playing in my media market. Instead, we are flooded with ads to "elect the guy who got paid millions of dollars to shoot 45% from the free throw line and get pushed around by Shaq."

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 22, 2010 7:29 PM | Report abuse

"Amanda Terkel notes an important trend: The rise of one-donor Super PACs."

I'd like to see this get much more press attention for the light it casts on front groups and the deceitful, propagandist misuse of language.

I suspect that the more instances citizens are made aware of where some single billionaire from the other side of the country represents the entirety of "Concerned Citizens for..." or "Frightened Elderly Taxpayers of America" the more those citizens will be educated as to how propaganda gets done modernly.

Posted by: bernielatham | October 22, 2010 7:30 PM | Report abuse

I have tripled my contribution to NPR. Thank you NPR for having the courage to let that wolf in sheep's clothing go. He belongs on faux noise where he can be as bigoted as those idiots over there. faux noise is welcome to him. Good riddance.

Posted by: letemhaveit | October 22, 2010
-------

LOL. Why don't you quadruple or quintuple it. Any number times zero will give them the same amount.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 7:30 PM | Report abuse

1. Threaten the violent overthrow of the govt if they don t get their way;
----------------------------------
Constitutional lesson, leichtman:

The Second Amendment trumps election results every time.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 7:31 PM | Report abuse

I presume that you understand that a vast number of those homeless deadbeat folks you deride are our fine Veterans who have given everything for this country and many suffering from PTSD from service on the front lines of war. The GOP philospohy is to use them as cannon fodder and then when they return insult their misfortune. Typical GOP attitude.

Posted by: leichtman1 | October 22, 2010 7:34 PM | Report abuse

"How can he, as a responsible President, accept and validate the framing that the nation has no other destiny than hate-filled and intractable division?"

Bernie,

I hesitate to tell you this because it's a little bit tough and I don't want you to worry, but here goes:

The "Real Housewives" reality shows in, you know, DC, NYC, etc., well...they're set up, not really real.

Hey, uh, I know, but I thought you ought to find a more positive outlet.

So, you OK?

Posted by: tao9 | October 22, 2010 7:35 PM | Report abuse

Meh, they're all talk. Have you seen tea partiers? A bunch of pasty fat sacks of garbage who couldn't die of coronaries just trying to get up from their lawn chairs.

I WANT them to try second amendment solutions. I'd be glad to take one of those fat fuc ks out myself!

Posted by: DDAWD | October 22, 2010 7:38 PM | Report abuse

kentonsmith wrote,
"Juan isn't a bigot he's just in the bigot business. He's a right wing conservative."
--------

This isn't just mistaken; it's an outright lie. In order for people to communicate, they have to use some common language. If anyone can call Juan Williams a right wing conservative, then their words have no meaning. I'm being charitable in calling this poster a liar. If he really believed this statement, he'd be too ignorant to function as a human being.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 7:38 PM | Report abuse

tao9,

I don't get the cable channel with the "Real Housewives" franchise. But it is fascinating -- and not the least surprising -- that the Republicans developed their approach to governance by watching something labeled "Real" that actually isn't. Thanks for the insight.

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 22, 2010 7:40 PM | Report abuse

"I don't get the cable channel with the "Real Housewives" franchise. But it is fascinating -- and not the least surprising -- that the Republicans developed their approach to governance by watching something labeled "Real" that actually isn't. Thanks for the insight.

Posted by: bearclaw1"

It's like when they talk about "common sense" solutions and then their example is reducing the deficit by lowering taxes.

Posted by: DDAWD | October 22, 2010 7:42 PM | Report abuse

I WANT them to try second amendment solutions. I'd be glad to take one of those fat fuc ks out myself!
-----------------------------------
Bwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DDAWD! And you in the medical profession. [but it is tempting, just thinking of sighting in...BOOM!]

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 7:42 PM | Report abuse

In a weird way this is a win for everyone. 1) Liberals no longer have to hear Juan Williams on NPR 2) Juan Williams gets a huge new deal with Fox 3) Conservatives get to pretend they are victims.

Posted by: PaciolisRevenge | October 22, 2010
----------

You forgot to mention it's a win for taxpayers. When a Republican House finally kicks NPR off the federal teat, NPR will have to replace that money with private contributions. Judging from the posts left by the liberal high rollers who populate this blog, they've already increased their donations enough to make up for any lost government funding. (chuckle, chuckle) You have to wonder why taxpayers have been feeding this pinko operation this long. See how easy it is for them to get the money from somewhere else? Let this be a lesson and a warning to all other sucklers at the trough.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 7:46 PM | Report abuse

"So, you OK?"

I don't think so. Just saw a short film with naked people doing sinful things and one female might have been Barbara Bush.

I'm still shaking.

How are you?

Posted by: bernielatham | October 22, 2010 7:50 PM | Report abuse

1. Threaten the violent overthrow of the govt if they don t get their way;
2. Impeachment proceedings;
----------------------------------
Darrell Issa says he ain't going to do impeachment. Assuming we ever hear of him again, we should go to agenda item #3.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 7:50 PM | Report abuse

It's like when they talk about "common sense" solutions and then their example is reducing the deficit by lowering taxes.

Posted by: DDAWD
+++++++++++

True. And then there is WMD.

"Let's make our nation secure by putting thousands of Americans on the ground in a country that lacks the ability to strike us on our own soil. Yeh, that's the ticket."

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 22, 2010 7:50 PM | Report abuse

NPR gets 2% of their money from the govt the other 98% from Pledges. Perhaps the radical right thinks that is how they will balance the budget.And JW is now playing the victim card, how pathetic. What happened to the free market place?

Posted by: leichtman1 | October 22, 2010 7:50 PM | Report abuse

"Bwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DDAWD! And you in the medical profession. [but it is tempting, just thinking of sighting in...BOOM!]

Posted by: 12BarBlues"

lol, the battle of idle threats. It's fine for Sharon Angle to talk about second amendment solutions since she will never pick up a gun.

But if patriotism is measured by empty bluster, funny costumes, and ignorance, then yeah. I'm no patriot.

Posted by: DDAWD | October 22, 2010 7:53 PM | Report abuse

1. Threaten the violent overthrow of the govt if they don t get their way;
2. Impeachment proceedings;
3/ Supoena everything and everyone connected with the adminisytation and
4. If that doesm t work Shut it Dowm. Unemployment benefits, Social Security Checks, The Dept of Education the Dept of Education.
-------------------------------
Let's get to agenda item #3--subpeona everything in sight, but that's kind of hollow. It doesn't actually shut anything down. That quickly moves everyone along to agenda item #4.

#4 SHUT IT DOWN. It does have a certain lyrical quality. Oooooooooh, what will be first? Unemployment benefits--that's it. SHUT IT DOWN. Oh, oh...better watch out for the unemployed who might circle around to agenda item #1, their Second Amendment solutions.

How about Social Security? SHUT IT DOWN! Maybe the old folks don't have so many Second Amendments?

Hm....hm...what should we shut down? Ooooooh, the devil is in the details...

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 8:00 PM | Report abuse

Digby notes this exchange between Beck and Palin today. Alan Grayson is the subject. Hold onto your hats...

"BECK: He is, he is... We were talking about him earlier off the air. And I've come to the conclusion that he is just one of those people who has absolutely no moral compass. It was taken out of him and jumped up and down on it and just destroyed his moral compass, he has none.

PALIN: Right, right. Well, what is the deal then, what is the attraction voters to Alan Grayson? He is not effective in a positive sense at all for his constituents. People look at him and say surely, you don't respect and you don't reflect the good people of Florida. So what is the attraction there?

BECK: I think it is his hotness... it is all physical. Come on Sarah, you know if Todd wasn't around you'd be like, 'yum, yum give me some.'"

Posted by: bernielatham | October 22, 2010 8:02 PM | Report abuse

We have some real gems posting here don't we?

"This is why people speak of second ammendment solutions."

No people who speak of 2nd Amendment solutions are simply traitors to our country.
They are not patriots but rebels who would bring down our nation. Mention a few cases WHICH EVEN IF TRUE represent a tiny fraction of actual votes cast and then talk about 2nd Amendment solutions. Be careful Brigade...as I pointed out your knuckles are dragging the ground and rubbing all that hair off...what a freaking loser to threaten people with gun violence. You should truly be ashamed you traitor to American values!

If you don't like the way elections are being handled...add your $25 to the 75 Million the R's have already flooded into the elections. Are you so freaking dumb that you think Billionaires are going to invest 3/4 of a BILLION $$$ only to stand by and let someone steal the election?
No..but what they will use that money on is to rile up violent inbreds like you through propaganda about "stolen" elections. Yeah...uber wealthy R's spend 3/4 of a BILLION to influence elections but when they win it's fair and square...if Dems win it must be the poor people stealing the elections.

You REALLY are a neanderthal without even a shred of common sense Brigade. Again think of the logic you kool aid drinking sheeple and turn off faux news and try to learn something moron!

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 22, 2010 8:03 PM | Report abuse

leichtman1 wrote,
"Apparently political and social anarchy are now the new norm within some GOP candidates."
------

Those blasted conservatives really know how to practice social anarchy:

1999:
"In Seattle, riot police fired tear gas, pepper spray and rubber bullets at tens of thousands of protesters blockading the WTO meeting while roving gangs of anarchists smashed windows, overturned newspaper stands and attacked cars."

1992:
"LA in flames after 'not guilty' verdict
Fierce rioting has broken out in Los Angeles following the decision by a jury to acquit four white police officers accused of beating black motorist Rodney King.
Motorists were dragged from their cars and beaten, cars were overturned and set alight, and at least five people were shot dead.
The violence is the worst in the city since the Watts riots of 1965, in which 34 people died. The Governor of California, Pete Wilson, has declared a state of emergency, and called in reinforcements from the California Highway Patrol."

2008:
"ST. PAUL, Minn. — Percussion grenades, tear gas and nearly 400 arrests marked the final anti-war march during the Republican National Convention. More than 800 arrests were reported during a week of sometimes peaceful, sometimes violent dissent.

Anti-war protesters rallied Thursday at the state Capitol and then planned to march to Xcel Energy Center, where Sen. John McCain was due to accept the GOP presidential nomination. But their permit had expired, and police _ in riot gear and using horses, snow plows and dump trucks _ blocked their way."

--------

Incidentally, where are all the war protesters now that Obama is president?

If conservatives ever really DID decide to practice a little anarchy, I'm afraid there'd be a very large number of liberals sprawled in the streets.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 8:03 PM | Report abuse

"But NPR only gets a small amount of that CPB money. Federal grants, including money from the National Endowment of the Arts, total about $3.3 million of NPR's $166 million annual budget, the Associated Press reported. Most of its budget is funded by affiliates, corporate sponsors and major donors."

That is from Foxnews.com.

So go ahead, you conservative heros. Cut NPR's federal funding. You will feel so righteous, and you will save some money to help pay back this:

"A ten percent increase in the budget for Congressional operations was needed because Senate Republicans wanted to retain previous staff levels despite having lost roughly 20 percent of their ranks in the 2008 elections, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) said Wednesday."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/25/reid-congressional-budget_n_169847.html

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 22, 2010 8:04 PM | Report abuse

"...This new spot from Paul either confirms that Republicans think the issue is working in their favor or signals that the Paul camp is on the defensive over it..."

"... And: Paul will debate Conway after all."
----------------------------------------------

Probably the second point answers the first question. I know that crazy people do crazy things, but I still have a hard time imagining team Paul risking another debate if they believed they had this race in the bag.

I have to admit though, if the Aqua Buddha ad turned out to be effective for Conway, that would be just as puzzling to me. I once read a scholarly paper on negative advertising that credibly concluded it works best when the conditions of recency, relevance and perceived fairness are at least minimally satisfied. And I would have been hard pressed to try and defend the Conway ad on any of those points.

But of course, I'm not (for example) a religious conservative living in a rural area that's been overrun by methamphetamine abuse. So perhaps it's a matter of perspective.

Posted by: CalD | October 22, 2010 8:04 PM | Report abuse

leichtman1 wrote,
"Apparently political and social anarchy are now the new norm within some GOP candidates."
------

Those blasted conservatives really know how to practice social anarchy:

1999:
"In Seattle, riot police fired tear gas, pepper spray and rubber bullets at tens of thousands of protesters blockading the WTO meeting while roving gangs of anarchists smashed windows, overturned newspaper stands and attacked cars."

1992:
"LA in flames after 'not guilty' verdict
Fierce rioting has broken out in Los Angeles following the decision by a jury to acquit four white police officers accused of beating black motorist Rodney King.
Motorists were dragged from their cars and beaten, cars were overturned and set alight, and at least five people were shot dead.
The violence is the worst in the city since the Watts riots of 1965, in which 34 people died. The Governor of California, Pete Wilson, has declared a state of emergency, and called in reinforcements from the California Highway Patrol."

2008:
"ST. PAUL, Minn. — Percussion grenades, tear gas and nearly 400 arrests marked the final anti-war march during the Republican National Convention. More than 800 arrests were reported during a week of sometimes peaceful, sometimes violent dissent.

Anti-war protesters rallied Thursday at the state Capitol and then planned to march to Xcel Energy Center, where Sen. John McCain was due to accept the GOP presidential nomination. But their permit had expired, and police _ in riot gear and using horses, snow plows and dump trucks _ blocked their way."

--------

Incidentally, where are all the war protesters now that Obama is president?

If conservatives ever really DID decide to practice a little anarchy, I'm afraid there'd be a very large number of liberals sprawled in the streets.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 8:05 PM | Report abuse

Correction...figure should have been 75 MILLION in secret money not BILLION. Bad typo but at least I have the courtesy to correct it. Let's see if other posters will correct their errors?

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 22, 2010 8:06 PM | Report abuse

Well, anyone who listens to FOX I feel very uncomfortable around. Please keep them and Tea Party members out of my neighborhood; particularly, that Satin Worshipping witch from Deleware.

Posted by: morenews1 | October 22, 2010
-------

None of them will be coming to your neighborhood unless they need some boots licked or some knobs polished.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 8:08 PM | Report abuse

If conservatives ever really DID decide to practice a little anarchy, I'm afraid there'd be a very large number of liberals sprawled in the streets.
------------------------------------
@brigade,

Your argument that it is liberals who are violent would have been a lot stronger if you hadn't followed it up with a threat. Just saying...

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 8:09 PM | Report abuse

Angle has threatend to close down not only the Dept of Education but the Dept of Energy that employs 11,000 Nevadans. Go figure. But yea I don t put the radical right past pushing for Impeachment proceedings next Feb. claiming he was not born in the US, yea that is a pressing issue for most Americans today. Seems like the DNC needs to set out that this radical GOP agenda has nothing to do with jobs, what American voters THINK they are voting for in a few days. Is not about jobs, it about having the power to radicalize our country with threats of anarchy if they don t get their way to reward their friends at the Chamber with tax cuts for the Bob Perrys of our nation.

Posted by: leichtman1 | October 22, 2010 8:11 PM | Report abuse

Your conclusion from the above story is that, to quote you, "The Democratic Party is crooked and corrupt from top to bottom. This is why people speak of second ammendment solutions."

Is that right?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010
------

I guess you only read one sentence. Right? The writer was trying to be charitable. None of the examples of voter fraud involved Republicans. Sorry.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 8:13 PM | Report abuse

If conservatives ever really DID decide to practice a little anarchy, I'm afraid there'd be a very large number of liberals sprawled in the streets.

Brigade
+++++++++++++++

I've seen the peetardiers, and let's just say it is apparent where all the high fructose corn syrup is going. They would need guns they can fire while sitting in lawn chairs.

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 22, 2010 8:15 PM | Report abuse

When I talk about corrections this is the type of willful ignorance I'm talking about.

"The Koran enjoins perpetual jihad against infidels, and their conversion (forced if necessary), murder, or subjugation. Islam and Christianity are not the same."
Posted by: quarterback1 | October 21, 2010 9:34 PM

http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/beliefs/other.htm
"Contrary to Islam's reputation of converting by the sword, the Qur'an is clear that there must be "no compulsion in religion." {1} Yet Muslims are not pluralistic in their worldview - they consider their religion to the be the true religion and invite people of all races, nationalities and religions to be part of it. Islam is closely connected to the two other Abrahamic religions, Judaism and Christianity. In fact, the Qur'an explains that the religion of the Jews and Christians is the same as that revealed to Muhammad, and Allah is God of them all."
How about the words of Islam's founder and their holiest prophet Muhammed himself..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_other_religions
"This is a message written by Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, far and near, we are behind them. Verily, I defend them by myself, the servants, the helpers, and my followers, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them. No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be changed from their jobs, nor their monks from their monasteries. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet."

And did Q.Beck acknowledge his mistake. No is holy arrogance came back with a right wing link. YES Q.Beck knows more about the Quran than ReligionFACT...and the Prophet Muhammed himself. Of course using his usual sophistry Q.Beck claims that it doesn't matter what religionfact or Muhammed said because HE the ALMIGHT Q.BECK can interpret everyone's words for them...it's all just a lie to snare us in their trap.

BTW...19 criminals attacked us on 9/11..toss in the shoe bomber..Christmas bomber...Ft Hood shooter..Padilla..we're still well UNDER 50 PEOPLE. NONE OF THEM WORE MUSLIM GARB!!! Get excited about the caps and exclamation points Troll because I'm sure you don't wish to comment on the content. Less than 50 people ALL dressed in Western garb except for the Ft. Hood shooter who was in a U.S. uniform.

The terrorist goal is and has always been to TERRORIZE us...you freaking bedwetters who are afraid of Muslims have just handed a MAJOR VICTORY to the terrorists. Thanks you cowards!

Let's see Q.Beck's sophistry should start in 1-2-3 his honest admission of error will occur when h freezes over because he is not man enough to admit his egregious ERROR!

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 22, 2010 8:15 PM | Report abuse

1. Threaten the violent overthrow of the govt if they don t get their way;
2. Impeachment proceedings;
3/ Supoena everything and everyone connected with the adminisytation and
4. If that doesm t work Shut it Dowm. Unemployment benefits, Social Security Checks, The Dept of Education the Dept of Education.
-------------------------------------
Getting back to SHUT IT DOWN.

Nix to unemployment checks. Nix to social security checks. One is too scary (have to wear bulletproof vests, and the other too scary next election).

How about shutting down the Dept of Education? That means shutting down Head Start and lunches for poor kids. This is more like it...kindergarten kids don't usually pack heat. And the poor kids--without lunch, they get weak and they're not THAT threatening. Besides they don't VOTE (the best thing of all).

Now we're starting to get somewhere...

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 8:15 PM | Report abuse

NPR gets 2% of their money from the govt the other 98% from Pledges. Perhaps the radical right thinks that is how they will balance the budget.And JW is now playing the victim card, how pathetic. What happened to the free market place?

Posted by: leichtman1 | October 22, 2010 7:50 PM
----

Uh, I think it's more like 10%. You can cover that easily.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 8:18 PM | Report abuse

good try brigae. The threat was made yesterday by a GOP Congressional candidate in Dallas, but of course instead of denouncing that radical statement threatening to overthrow the govt you play the victim card. A little consisstancy. We are sure you and 37th would be demanding that a D candidate making such an outrageous threat to our national security, should be denounced and removed from the ballot. Nazi impersonator and anarchists, there is not much left for the radical right this election season

The reason Ds like me are not protesting the war is b/c I support the war 100%. At least I have been consistant in that sentiment unlike your blatant hypocrisy tonight.

Posted by: leichtman1 | October 22, 2010 8:19 PM | Report abuse

There are various allegations of possible voter fraud across the country, against both parties, but nowhere does there seem to be a more unusual case than in Troy, New York.
------------------------
Oh, the writer was lying when he said "against both parties"? Really, now, you're sure now about that?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 8:24 PM | Report abuse

@brigade,

Your argument that it is liberals who are violent would have been a lot stronger if you hadn't followed it up with a threat. Just saying...

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 8:09 PM
------

Liberals are more prone to PRACTICE violence because they are usually pandered to and treated like babies. There was one incident at Kent State during a Viet Nam war protest when some conservatives momentarily lost the urge to simply indulge. It wasn't pretty.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 8:24 PM | Report abuse

Uh, I think it's more like 10%.

Posted by: Brigade
_______________

According to Fox News, the figure is $3.3 million in federal funding out of a total NPR budget of $166 million. 1.99 percent. Leichtman was right, you are wrong. How shocking.

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 22, 2010 8:24 PM | Report abuse

Yglesias from April on NPR's impressive decade-long growth in audience (very good graph) at link. But thought I'd post this bit of reality too...

"Last, in response to Kevin Drum I’m not really sure what’s so liberal about NPR except by wingnut rules whereby anything that isn’t an organ of the conservative movement is per se liberal."
http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/2010/04/npr-and-cable/


Posted by: bernielatham | October 22, 2010 8:25 PM | Report abuse

I guess you only read one sentence. Right? The writer was trying to be charitable. None of the examples of voter fraud involved Republicans. Sorry.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 8:13 PM
===========================

You didn't list any examples. Just a lot of made up allegations, which are typically used by Republicans as excuses for voter suppression.

Your examples are as real as Saddam's WMD in 2003.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | October 22, 2010 8:26 PM | Report abuse

"None of them will be coming to your neighborhood unless they need some boots licked or some knobs polished."

Do you even read your posts before hitting send. Do you understand how that makes you sound...are you truly and literally a fascist? Is that what you're after Brigade...forcing liberals and others who advocate for the bottom 98% against the top 2% to lick your boots or polish your knob.

You are one sick cretin dude. Thanks heavens your on the declining side of the demographic. You missed your calling moron. You should have been born in Germany about 1900...talk of boot licking and knob polishing was very popular about 30 years later...and that and your 2nd Amendment solutions fit quite nicely with a dictatorship.

Really? Boot's licked...that's what you consider an accomplishment? What a freaking loser!

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 22, 2010 8:26 PM | Report abuse

There was one incident at Kent State during a Viet Nam war protest when some conservatives momentarily lost the urge to simply indulge. It wasn't pretty.

Posted by: Brigade
+++++++++++++

You are sick. Please seek mental health treatment. You think armed troops firing on unarmed protesters is somehow a display of the awesome valor of "conservatives"?

News alert: your conservative heroes were, for the most part, chickenhawks getting deferments when the Kent State shooting occurred.

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 22, 2010 8:28 PM | Report abuse

I've seen the peetardiers, and let's just say it is apparent where all the high fructose corn syrup is going. They would need guns they can fire while sitting in lawn chairs.

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 22, 2010 8:15 PM
-----

Right. All those service men and women whose ballots are routinely challenged by Dems do their work while sitting in lawn chairs. The Guardsmen who gunned own the protestors at Kent State were sitting in lawn chairs.

If the authorities had reacted appropriately during the Rodney King riots, they would have needed the Fire Department and lots of hoses to wash up what was left of the rioters from the streets. No lawn chairs required.

No doubt you and DDAWD are real terrors.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 8:29 PM | Report abuse

Liberals are more prone to PRACTICE violence because they are usually pandered to and treated like babies.
------------------------------
Oh, I see. Conservatives are more prone to THREATEN violence because they are usually .... [fill in the blanks].

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 8:30 PM | Report abuse

"Let this be a lesson and a warning to all other sucklers at the trough."

Yes, but how will all the teabaggers take to the streets to protest govt spending without their medicare-paid-for scooters?

Posted by: schrodingerscat | October 22, 2010 8:36 PM | Report abuse

Oh, I see. Conservatives are more prone to THREATEN violence because they are usually .... [fill in the blanks].

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 8:30 PM
===============================

...angry, deluded bigots.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | October 22, 2010 8:36 PM | Report abuse

I don't know why conservatives only THREATEN violence. Why is that? Mrs. Angle THREATENED violence, didn't she with her second amendment remedies. Which is it -- threat or real?

How are the Tea Partiers to know whether they are to run home for their shotguns and load the guns, or not load them? This is so confusing, don't you think.

Ever think you conservatives ought to be a little less clever with this "I'm going to threaten to take you out, but I MAY not really mean it".

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 8:36 PM | Report abuse

You rational posters can get a great grasp of how proud I am now of my Vietnam service.

It's just a great feeling to have served your country in uniform in a war zone so that people like Brigade can cheer on the murder of innocent civilians at Kent State...hope for even more slaughter of liberals and then act as if getting boots licked and knobs polished is an accomplishment.

Dude the hate has corrupted you mind so badly that I join with the earlier poster who suggests that you get some mental health care...and I'm being serious..no snark intended. You are one sick violent man.

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 22, 2010 8:37 PM | Report abuse


Really? Boot...lick...that's...you?

Does any of the seven heads of rukidding7 read any post with 14 eyes and come up with anything but moron? What is more pathetic, a moron saying moron seven times real fast or just a moron? Are you competing for that 'head of a pin' position Odd-Job Czar Joseph Robin(a v)ette Biden just saved and Created?

...and WE're hitting Submit...

Posted by: SpendNomore | October 22, 2010 8:39 PM | Report abuse

I've been a regular reader for some time but have never commented. Generally greatly appreciate the comments, discussion and the links therein. Now I feel compelled to weigh in on one OT matter: LEAFOFLIFE and the multiple previous incarnations of which I am aware. Please get rid of it. Another opinion is one thing, but it brings nothing productive to the discussion and is not just snarky (okay, we all do that sometimes) but intentionally baiting, like a schoolyard bully (we don't all do that sometimes). I am getting tired of scrolling through the distraction. For whatever it's worth, from a reader . . . .

Posted by: okiegirl | October 22, 2010 8:40 PM | Report abuse

No doubt you and DDAWD are real terrors.

Posted by: Brigade
++++++++++++

I didn't say I am. But I'm also not afraid of a bunch of fat peetardiers.

As for Kent State, two of the students killed, Sandra Scheuer and William Knox Schroeder, had been walking from one class to the next at the time of their deaths. Schroeder was a member of the campus ROTC.

So that is your example of conservative courage? Congratulations on killing innocent, unarmed people, and an ROTC member. You are so very brave.

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 22, 2010 8:40 PM | Report abuse

This place is a real liberal circle jerk today.
-------

Harry Reid's closing message: You'd have to be crazy to replace me with Sharron Angle.

-------

I say to the people of Nevada to give the old codger one last term before he is put out to pasture. At least you will be assured that you'll have someone in the Senate who will look out for the state's interests. With "Dead Man Walking" Ensign and and a loon like Angle, Nevada would essentially have Senate representation in name only.

Posted by: filmnoia | October 22, 2010

-------

I am sure that these Las Vegas business folks are not thrilled with that crazy message either.

Posted by: leichtman1 | October 22, 2010

-------

These kinds of posts are priceless. It's like during the debates over the Arizona immigration law when 65% of the American people were categorized by libs as "the lunatic fringe." Now, with Angle leading Dingy Harry in the polls, Reids best shot, like leichman1's and filmdorkia's is to charge that the majority of voters are "crazy." Sure, that'll work!

If you're satisfied with having a crook line his pockets (see QB1 at 1:23PM) while your state's unemployment rate is 15%, by all means the "non-crazy" thing to do is vote for Dingy Harry. And if you're better off now than you were four (or six) years ago, you might want to consider his boy Dirty Rory for the Governor's mansion.
But if your unhappy with what's going on in the country, you might just want to give old Dingy Harry a swift kick in the butt. Anyone who believes his lies is the crazy one.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 8:43 PM | Report abuse

Spendnomore...whew what an intelletual display...did you mention one fact other than me using the word MORON...which pretty well fits you as well as your right wing cretin friends.

So we can take it then Spend you are proud of Brigade's mighty threats of violence...his pride at frightened National Guardsmen..he calls them conservatives...shoot on an unarmed crowd of college students just starting out in life. Yeah spend you sound like all the over righty loons...you can't discuss the issue at hand so distract with a little name calling about my use of the word moron. I'm impressed....NOT!

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 22, 2010 8:44 PM | Report abuse

@okiegirl....Stick around and post some more.
Sorry you wandered in during a food fight.

Are you suggesting that 37th might also be Brigade and Spendnomore...especially Brigade...he has just run the most incredibly wacked posts I've seen here since the days of a fellow named Bilgey...he was around in the old days before Greg moved to the WaPo..he used to start every post by addressing us as slaves...right in line with boot licking I suspect.

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 22, 2010 8:48 PM | Report abuse

Here's something worth reading (as opposed to the unhinged commentary of some PL poster who may have had too much to drink):

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/10/22/muslims

"I'm referring to those who rail against NPR's actions by invoking free expression principles they plainly do not support and which they eagerly violate whenever the viewpoint in question is one they dislike. For most NPR critics, the real danger from Williams' firing is not to free expression, but to the ongoing fear-mongering campaign of defamation and bigotry against Muslims (both foreign and domestic) that is so indispensable to so many agendas."
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | October 22, 2010 8:48 PM | Report abuse

I've never heard one person (until today) defend the shooting and killing of innocent students at Kent State. That was a low point in our history and a turning point, as I remember, in public opinion.

For those who don't know the story, it "involved the shooting of unarmed college students by members of the Ohio National Guard on Monday, May 4, 1970. The guardsmen fired 67 rounds over a period of 13 seconds, killing four students and wounding nine others, one of whom suffered permanent paralysis."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 8:49 PM | Report abuse

thunderthighs wrote,
"You didn't list any examples. Just a lot of made up allegations, which are typically used by Republicans as excuses for voter suppression.

Your examples are as real as Saddam's WMD in 2003."
------

What I listed were documented examples of Democratic voter fraud. But I don't expect logic from people who regard Juan Williams as a right wing conservative.

Scott listed numerous quotes from your liberal masters about Saddam's alleged weapons of mass destruction two days ago.
Take it up with Kerry, Gore, the Clintons, Pelosi, et al. To bring this up again after you were so recently humiliated only proves your stupidity.


Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 8:50 PM | Report abuse

Are you all...what's Neiwart's meal ticket again, oh yeah!...are you all going straight to "eliminationist" mode because Brigade's playing you like a moog synthesizer?

Or something innate?

I thought you guys were progressives.

Posted by: tao9 | October 22, 2010 8:51 PM | Report abuse

No, but Yes 12bar, one thing is sure, WE believe Joe (the dumber) Mankin means it when he says he's going to take aim with knee-cap and tax. WE are on to the ("D, D, D") WV, shape shifting, ("I am not one of d'ose dems trying to put y'all on the collectivist activist plantation set up by the Pirate Ship of State tied to the dock of the bay @ 1600 carpet bagger tent city ave in the District of Chitcago 'East'), no, I'm "U", just a good (I fudge sometimes, we are all sub-human at the core), trust us (I mean Me, U, oh well...).

Posted by: SpendNomore | October 22, 2010 8:52 PM | Report abuse

"For those who don't know the story..."

12B, Is that possible?

And yeah, that's a first for me too.

Posted by: tao9 | October 22, 2010 8:55 PM | Report abuse

@spend,

You're going to have break the code down a little. I'm having a lot of trouble following your last post. Stop! "no, I'm "U"--I think I understand that.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 8:55 PM | Report abuse

You are sick. Please seek mental health treatment. You think armed troops firing on unarmed protesters is somehow a display of the awesome valor of "conservatives"?

News alert: your conservative heroes were, for the most part, chickenhawks getting deferments when the Kent State shooting occurred.

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 22, 2010 8:28 PM
-------

You've demonstrated your ignorance once again. Valor was not the subject of the conversation. The subject was anarchy and the propensity of liberals to practice it because they are convinced not much will happen to them. Some times they figure wrong. The armed troops may have been chickenhawks, but the protestors were still dead the last time I checked. Try to keep up.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 8:57 PM | Report abuse

Defund mania goes into the stratosphere. Defund the Supreme Court!
http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/78593/tomorrows-crazy-today

Posted by: bernielatham | October 22, 2010 8:57 PM | Report abuse

I thought you guys were progressives.

Posted by: tao9 | October 22, 2010 8:51 PM |
===============================

Could you translate that into English? Brigade isn't playing anyone here, he's just being an a-hole.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | October 22, 2010 8:57 PM | Report abuse

@tao "Are you all...what's Neiwart's meal ticket again, oh yeah!...are you all going straight to "eliminationist" mode because Brigade's playing you like a moog synthesizer?"

You're lucky that I'm old enough to understand what a "Moog synthesizer" is. :-)

But I'm one who believes confession is good for the soul and yes you are correct...I was very slow on the uptake.
I confess my mistake...should have ignored such obviously unhinged violent talk. I must confess though I'm not much on boot licking. LOL

Back to more civil things...Moog synthesizers....Roger Waters is coming to Tampa to play "The Wall" in it's entirety.

Doubt that I'll go because I'm not much for Arena concerts anymore. Besides I got to see P. Floyd just as they were taking off...long before "The Wall"...they were at a small venue in Cincinnati while I was a student at U.C. The main thing I remember was that I didn't need to bring my own....all one had to do was inhale deeply of the "auditorium air" and get a terrific buzz! LMAO

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 22, 2010 9:00 PM | Report abuse

Brigade isn't playing anyone here, he's just being an a-hole.
-------------------------------
I'm going to say it a little differently. I think Brigade is telling us how he really feels. This has the "ring of truth".

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 9:02 PM | Report abuse

Brigade,

Kent State resulted in deaths of nonprotestors, including a member of the campus ROTC. And of course you have no proof the National Guard members were conservatives. But reality doesn't seem to be your strong suit.

I'll trust the opinion of someone like RUK who actually served.

Time for the evening bike commute. Have to keep my fitness level up so I can deal with the awesome "charge of the wide brigade" when the peetardiers decide to get rid of us nasty liberals.

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 22, 2010 9:02 PM | Report abuse

rukidding7 wrote,
"You rational posters can get a great grasp of how proud I am now of my Vietnam service.

It's just a great feeling to have served your country in uniform in a war zone so that people like Brigade can cheer on the murder of innocent civilians at Kent State."
------

You weren't the only one in Viet Nam. I believe I mentioned that I was in the service, too, although I don't brag about it continually like you do. And if you spin my comment as "cheering on the murder of innocent civilians at Kent State" then you are a liar as well as fool and a blowhard.

What is it about you libs? You lose an argument and you immediately start mischaracterizing what your foil said and just throw out B.S. and strawmen to respond to. You aren't debating me; you're debating your own weird fantasies.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 9:04 PM | Report abuse

No tao, however many of the nine you are asking for, the problem seems to be that the progressive slowly turning, weaving and bobbing, working it's slippery self year after year into all institutions deemed important by that great patriot, Saul Alinsky (who is turning over in his liberal heaven), has been exposed along with the 'first ever'-in-chief Obamameanyjihad, and his transparent sheet-headed cabal from Chitcago, the genie is out of the bottle, the french has gone out of the happy meal, and 'barack o'dumpty' has had a great fall, good luck stuffin' all that stuffin' back in there tao...

...hitting Submit...

Posted by: SpendNomore | October 22, 2010 9:04 PM | Report abuse

@12Bar "That was a low point in our history and a turning point, as I remember, in public opinion."

Indeed a low point. Alas I actually lived through that time...Two things stick out in my mind...I was a student at another Ohio University...the University of Cincinnati when that awful event took place...they closed our school for a week because of fear of the demonstrations that were sure to follow the murders...perhaps I should more accurately state manslaughters.

The other thing that really sticks out for me about that time...I had gotten back from the Army and had managed to get a supply sergeant to sign off on my field jacket, so I got to wear it even after I left the Army. I was proud to wear it because it had the patch of the 101st Airborne...a unit that has served with distinction from the Battle of the Bulge to Afghanistan today. As I rode the elevator in the Biology building on the way to class a young girl of about 19 got on...I was 22 at the time...she looked at my jacket...made a horrific scowl..and as she got off the elevator turned to me and said, "Baby Burner". Ahhh yesss great days indeed.

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 22, 2010 9:07 PM | Report abuse

I embarrassed to admit I live in California where we have the distinction of having the country's dumbest Senator...

Posted by: sbj3 | October 22, 2010
======================

When did you move to Kentucky?

Posted by: Liam-still | October 22, 2010
-----------

Poor Liam. Someone once said wisdom comes with age. In Liam's case, age came alone.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 9:07 PM | Report abuse

@tao "Are you all...what's Neiwart's meal ticket again, oh yeah!...are you all going straight to "eliminationist" mode because Brigade's playing you like a moog synthesizer?"
...
Posted by: rukidding7 | October 22, 2010 9:00 PM
======================

Brigade is making the cons on this board look even worse than JakeD2 and STRF do.

I'd say tao9 is deflecting...Like Rush Limbaugh trying to cover for a particularly embarrassing screed by saying "I was just trying to rile up the liberals!"
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | October 22, 2010 9:08 PM | Report abuse

oh by the way brigade while you are so proud of your moral equivalency argument about advocating for violence, there is one small problem with your flawed logic. NONE OF THE FOLKS YOU REFERENCE ARE RUNNING FOR CONGRESSIONAL OFFICE WITH A PARTY DESIGNATION. Why don't you just join the rest of the sane world tonight and repeat this simple statement. It is UnAmerican for ANY political candidate to advocate for the violent overthrow of our government, period. Its kind of hard to comprehen why that is so difficult for the radical right to understand. We thought it was only jake that harbored such sentiments.

Posted by: leichtman1 | October 22, 2010 9:09 PM | Report abuse

I don't need to be a terror. I'm talking about fighting tea partiers, not real men.

But how mny Sarah Palin winks do you think Brigade has earned today? Any references to nigg...African Americans being on the Dems' plantation earns two Palin winks. A whole blink!

Posted by: DDAWD | October 22, 2010 9:10 PM | Report abuse

Ahhh yesss great days indeed.
----------------------------------------
Those were awful days in so many ways. The war was ripping this country apart. The antiwar people were convinced that the military wore horns. The veterans felt abandoned by their fellow Americans. The pols were lying about everything, all the time. Everyone was suffering. My personal apology for the treatment you got when you came back. The vets did not wear horns (well, most of them didn't). They didn't deserve the treatment they got.

But that's no excuse for mowing down unarmed students at Kent State. That was an atrocity.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 9:13 PM | Report abuse

If conservatives ever really DID decide to practice a little anarchy, I'm afraid there'd be a very large number of liberals sprawled in the streets.
Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 8:03 PM | Report abuse

---

Ask the citizens of Oklahoma City. Though, there didn't seem to be much worry about political affiliation.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | October 22, 2010 9:14 PM | Report abuse

So that is your example of conservative courage? Congratulations on killing innocent, unarmed people, and an ROTC member. You are so very brave.

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 22, 2010 8:40 PM
-----

I'll say this one more time because you are obviously mentally challenged. Now listen carefully: I didn't say ANYTHING about conservative courage---YOU DID! I didn't say I was brave, and I have no idea why you are congratulating me for the shooting. Did I say I was the shooter?

My point, clearly stated, was that anarchy (rioting in the streets and non-peaceful demonstrations) can result in violence to the demonstrators, and liberals have a greater history of this than conservatives---regardless of Sharon Angle's bluster.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 9:16 PM | Report abuse

@DDAWD I'm not really that attracted to Palin...however Christine O'Donnell is actually cute...do you suppose if I restrained from pleasuring myself tonight I could get a wink?

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 22, 2010 9:17 PM | Report abuse

Who let the bats out, *amn did they foreclose on the cave again? Well there's always the belfrey...

...yeh Brigade, it saddens US almost as much as Harry Greid is saddened by all those tourists in DC smelling up the place in summer (guess he forgot to check his own keister before making that statement.

Posted by: SpendNomore | October 22, 2010 9:18 PM | Report abuse

actually Liam's post was clever, Jim Bunning is certainly not the brightest
bullb in the US Senate.

Posted by: leichtman1 | October 22, 2010 9:21 PM | Report abuse

My point, clearly stated, was that anarchy (rioting in the streets and non-peaceful demonstrations) can result in violence to the demonstrators, and liberals have a greater history of this than conservatives
-------------------------------
The point you had been making was that liberals are more prone to PRACTICE violence. Didn't you give several examples of that.

Then you pivot into liberals (I guess you mean the unarmed students) are more prone to GET KILLED.

Why does this seem like another threat? You know, like "watch out, you could get killed being a liberal (or a student)."

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 9:24 PM | Report abuse

...poor pathetic ruk...devolved to a useless waste of oxygen...lost in liberal fantasies, dancing backwards toward the brink, never looking back to what awaits those who refuse to grab the life preserver being thrown repeatedly off the back the USS 'Prosperity' now headed back to the peacful shores of good and plenty of it...

Posted by: SpendNomore | October 22, 2010 9:25 PM | Report abuse

@12Bar "But that's no excuse for mowing down unarmed students at Kent State. That was an atrocity."

Agreed! There is no excuse. Of course the poor young men who mowed down the students weren't Vets...not to make too fine of a point but many of them were also college students who didn't know W-T-F they were doing out there to begin with.

I could tell you plenty of horror stories about friendly fire, and I'm not speaking of airstrikes that hit too closely...I'm talking about what happens when you have a draft army with a few volunteers and the VAST MAJORITY of wealthy educated Americans got to take a pass leaving the less educated and sophisticated kids to do all the fighting....let's just say if you ever decide to arm yourself..take lessons...get certified...and RESPECT the weapon. Some poor guys simply should have never been issued live ammunition and that certainly includes frightened kids in the Ohio National Guard. I do not hold them responsible...it was as you suggest a major failure of our political establishment..right and left. As we used to say in the service it was FUBAR!

This by the way is why I'm so incredibly disturbed by our useless, ineffective wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 22, 2010 9:25 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues wrote,
"I've never heard one person (until today) defend the shooting and killing of innocent students at Kent State. That was a low point in our history and a turning point, as I remember, in public opinion."
-----

I assume you mean me. I think you've been hanging around Liam, Ethan, and ru too much. Now you're starting to make things up, too. When I respond to someone's post, I usually quote the post and then respond. Maybe you could produce one of my posts that a rational person would interpret as defending "the shooting and killing of innocent students at Kent State."

I mentioned it as an example of what can happen when "anarchy" gets out of hand. I said it wasn't pretty. I don't recall saying I approved of it. But please don't make it sound like some guardsmen just decided to shoot down some people walking to class. That's not exactly what happened.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 9:29 PM | Report abuse

@leichtman1 "Jim Bunning is certainly not the brightest
bullb in the US Senate."

True...but he was a great baseball pitcher.
I'm still trying to figure out at what Christine O'D has been great? Or any visible qualification to run for office.

Sharon Angle may be a wackjob but at least she has served in some political office before jumping into a race for the U.S. Senate.

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 22, 2010 9:30 PM | Report abuse

well now, looks like the forum is over and the bars are open, let the good times roll, the libations be swilled and the poster-partners shill the blog-discussion, shouldn't be difficult to find a date now the 'situation' of blogs is dancin' on the tables...

Posted by: SpendNomore | October 22, 2010 9:32 PM | Report abuse

Then you pivot into liberals (I guess you mean the unarmed students) are more prone to GET KILLED.
------------------------------------
Wait a minute, I didn't tie in the "rioting in the streets and non-peaceful demonstrations" angle. And you think Kent State is an example of a situation where the military (or police) should open up on unarmed citizens? I've never heard anyone EVER defend the shootings at Kent State.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 9:34 PM | Report abuse

ruk--I was just going to ask if Brigade posted when Bilgeman was still around when I saw your comment. There's something about Brigade's tone . . .

Posted by: AllButCertain | October 22, 2010 9:34 PM | Report abuse

Maybe you could produce one of my posts that a rational person would interpret as defending "the shooting and killing of innocent students at Kent State."
-------------------------------------
Your post:

Liberals are more prone to PRACTICE violence because they are usually pandered to and treated like babies. There was one incident at Kent State during a Viet Nam war protest when some conservatives momentarily lost the urge to simply indulge. It wasn't pretty.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 9:39 PM | Report abuse

"liberal heaven"

Now, there's an enticing notion!

The harps would be electric. The clouds, soft and scushey and with an agreeable THC content, I think. Wings would permit any number of spicy and frivolous sexual positions. The work-week would be even better than if the shop was unionized. And talk about top notch single-provider health care! Delectable fruits and vegetables ever at one's elbow and harvested by Mexicans and Dutch and God and Muslims and there'd be a Rolls for everyone or for no one but not for some.

I like the sound of it.

What would a conservative heaven look like by way of contrast?

Posted by: bernielatham | October 22, 2010 9:41 PM | Report abuse

it was the National Guard egged on by a speech the night before the shooting at Kent State by Spiro Agnew. Speech does have consequences when CANDIDATES FOR OFFICE advocate violence. It is not funny to those who remember that sad day at Kent State.

Posted by: leichtman1 | October 22, 2010 9:45 PM | Report abuse

What would a conservative heaven look like by way of contrast?

Posted by: bernielatham | October 22, 2010 9:41 PM
============================

Kent State on May 4, 1970, apparently.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | October 22, 2010 9:46 PM | Report abuse

actually Liam's post was clever, Jim Bunning is certainly not the brightest
bullb in the US Senate.

Posted by: leichtman1 | October 22, 2010 9:21 PM
-----

Hmmmmm. sbj3 said, "I live in California where WE (emphasis mine) have the distinction of having the country's dumbest Senator."

Liam said, "when did you move to Kentucky" and leichtman1 thinks THAT was clever.

As the election draws nearer the liberal wheels are starting to come off. Language is being redefined. Juan Williams is now a right wing conservative; Liam's odd and totally incoherent comeback to sbj3 is clever; my use of the Kent State shooting as an example of what can happen when liberals take to the streets is somehow a glorification of the event and a demonstration of my own bravery. It's getting crazy. I hate to think what November 3 will bring.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 9:46 PM | Report abuse

"life preserver being thrown repeatedly off the back the USS 'Prosperity' now headed back to the peacful shores of good and plenty of it..."

Life preserver...are you referring to the 40% drop all of my real estate, professionally managed stock retirement portfolio took at the end of the G.W. Bush.
Are you so brain dead that you wish to rewrite history.

Obama has created more private jobs in the first ten months of this year than the Bush Administration did it's entire 8 years.

http://forum.houmatoday.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1930

"It’s Official: More Private Sector Jobs Created In 2010 Than During Entire Bush Years"

The financial collapse occurred on Bush's watch...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late-2000s_recession

The late-2000s recession (or the Great Recession[1][2]) was a severe economic recession that began in the United States in December 2007...A FULL YEAR BEFORE OBAMA TOOK OFFICE!

Life preserver...W-T-F are you talking about? You should stick to your mindless obtuse doggerel because you don't fare so well on the facts spendnomore Gump.

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 22, 2010 9:47 PM | Report abuse

This by the way is why I'm so incredibly disturbed by our useless, ineffective wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 22, 2010 9:25 PM
------

Ah, something you and I and leichtman1 can agree on.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 9:51 PM | Report abuse

@allbutcertain...."There's something about Brigade's tone . ."

Indeed...but Bilgey was a real piece of work. He once chastised me and said Vietnam Vets didn't deserve a memorial because WE lost that war...if the servicemen has simply been a little more macho...perhaps like Brigade..we coulda whipped em.

If Brigade ever whips out the "slave" sobriquet to go along with "licking boots and polishing knobs" then we'll know. LMAO

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 22, 2010 9:51 PM | Report abuse

are you now trying desperately to rewrite history now and blaming the totally innocent student who were killed at Kent State. We actually knew one of the families and your blaming themn is dispicable, truly dispciable. Apparently you are too young or uninformed to know of the hate speech by Agnew the days leading up to that national tragedy. Read Agnew's and Nixon's speeches inflaming the National Guard who were clearly out of control.You owe those families an apology !

Posted by: leichtman1 | October 22, 2010 9:53 PM | Report abuse

Excuse me for this totally OT post:

GO RANGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whooo!!!!!!!!!!!

Alright....carry on....

Posted by: schrodingerscat | October 22, 2010 9:57 PM | Report abuse

"Ah, something you and I and leichtman1 can agree on."

Great. Then it's time for me to retire while we are in agreement. Time to drag my old body to bed so I can get up tomorrow and hit spinning class. Perhaps someday I may actually get to ride the mountain trails up north with BG.

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 22, 2010 9:57 PM | Report abuse

sorry to disappoiny I am 100% behind the troops and war in Afghanistan I see it as a war of necessity, just hope we can wind it down soon.

Posted by: leichtman1 | October 22, 2010 9:58 PM | Report abuse

my use of the Kent State shooting as an example of what can happen when liberals take to the streets is somehow a glorification of the event
----------------------------------
You used the wrong example, Brigade. You used the one example where guns of the military was used to silence and threaten protest in THIS country. Protest is legal. That's the First Amendment. The Second Amendment is not supposed to trump the First Amendment.

BTW, some of the students shot were not even protesting. They were walking to class or watching from a distance.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 9:59 PM | Report abuse

"What would a conservative heaven look like by way of contrast?"

Dante's vision is the benchmark for human's seeing throught the glass darkly. CS Lewis also has a delightful literary rendering of Paradise.

They both evoke music, light, and joyful contemplation in the presence of the Lord. (George Harrison was on to something.)

No need for dope in the clouds.

Posted by: tao9 | October 22, 2010 10:02 PM | Report abuse

@S.C.
"GO RANGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whooo!!!!!!!!!!!"

Until they play the Lightning. :-) We sent you Torts and he is good..brought us a Stanley Cup so we'll always admire him...but our new man Guy Boucher is even better.

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 22, 2010 10:03 PM | Report abuse

Wait a minute, I didn't tie in the "rioting in the streets and non-peaceful demonstrations" angle. And you think Kent State is an example of a situation where the military (or police) should open up on unarmed citizens? I've never heard anyone EVER defend the shootings at Kent State.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 9:34 PM
-------

Maybe you could produce one of my posts that a rational person would interpret as defending "the shooting and killing of innocent students at Kent State."
-------------------------------------
Your post:

Liberals are more prone to PRACTICE violence because they are usually pandered to and treated like babies. There was one incident at Kent State during a Viet Nam war protest when some conservatives momentarily lost the urge to simply indulge. It wasn't pretty.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 9:39 PM
--------

Sorry, but these posts don't support you. I'm amazed you can't see that. There was a protest which got out of hand at Kent State. The protestors surely did not expect the guardsmen to start shooting at them. They did. When people have guns, whether it be police or guardsmen, there's always a chance things can get out of hand. If it happened there, there is ALWAYS that danger. Sometimes violence is justified. It was NOT justified at Kent State.

YOU remarked, "And you think Kent State is an example of a situation where the military or police SHOULD (emphasis mine) open up on unarmed civilians."

I never said that. That's just you spinning so you'll have some statement you can rebut. At least it gave us something to argue about for awhile and sent rukidding7 over the edge again.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 10:05 PM | Report abuse

No need for dope in the clouds.

Posted by: tao9 | October 22, 2010 10:02 PM

..................

Then it is Paradise Lost for Brigade.

Posted by: Liam-still | October 22, 2010 10:07 PM | Report abuse

"Until they play the Lightning. "

Sorry, ruk. I guess I should've been more specific. I meant "Texas" Rangers....baseball. They're up 5-1 over the Yankees. :)

Posted by: schrodingerscat | October 22, 2010 10:10 PM | Report abuse

@S's Cat....I'm the one who is sorry. I was watching the Lightning just whip the Atlanta Thrashers which is why my mind was focused on hockey.

But by all means then...GO RANGERS...I hate the Yankees. And you realize SCat that they Yanks are simply going to by our best player...Carl Crawford because we beat them for the East Division...and then they're going to buy your best player Cliff Lee because he used them like a cheap....well perhaps you can understand why I HATE the Yankees more than any other team in all of professional sports. I suppose if I were English I'd be hating Man U. but in our great nation it is the yankees who truly s-u-c-k!

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 22, 2010 10:16 PM | Report abuse

leichtman1 wrote
"are you now trying desperately to rewrite history now and blaming the totally innocent student who were killed at Kent State. We actually knew one of the families and your blaming themn is dispicable, truly dispciable."
------

Are you people all out of your minds?

"sorry to disappoiny I am 100% behind the troops and war in Afghanistan I see it as a war of necessity, just hope we can wind it down soon."

I'm behind the drone attacks and the counter-terrorism. It's the nation-building and the counter-insurgency I'm against. I was for the Iraq War before I was against it. No WDM. Get out. We should never use our military to prop up corrupt governments and leave the troops in harms way year after year with no clear mission which protects the home front. I can't imagine what it must be like for these soldiers on their third tours of duty in the Middle East.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 10:17 PM | Report abuse

curious how a discussion about a GOP Congressional candidate calling for the
Violent Overthrow of the US government
turns into an attack against Ds. As
Obama said recently, what is up is down to the GOP. Call it Tea Party logic. Interesting I have not read one condemnation of that radical and dangerous statment by a GOP Congressional candidate.

Posted by: leichtman1 | October 22, 2010 10:17 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, but these posts don't support you.
--------------------------------
Sorry, but these posts don't honor you at all. Everyone interpreted your response as a threat that conservatives can finally lose their tempers and fire on liberals when liberals take to the street. Then you use the example of students at a protest 40 years ago.

You should check the tone of all your posts which are clearly threatening. If you don't know that about yourself, you don't know brigade very well.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | October 22, 2010 10:22 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues wrote,
"You used the wrong example, Brigade."
-------

Obviously. Judging from the hateful responses, I'm not going to argue that.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 10:22 PM | Report abuse

curious how a discussion about a GOP Congressional candidate calling for the
Violent Overthrow of the US government
turns into an attack against Ds. As
Obama said recently, what is up is down to the GOP. Call it Tea Party logic. Interesting I have not read one condemnation of that radical and dangerous statment by a GOP Congressional candidate.

Posted by: leichtman1 | October 22, 2010 10:23 PM | Report abuse

"There was one incident at Kent State during a Viet Nam war protest when some conservatives momentarily lost the urge to simply indulge."

"Sorry, but these posts don't support you. I'm amazed you can't see that."

I think 12Bar has a point. Your use of the phrase "lost the urge to simply indulge" strongly implies that up to that point officials were being excessively lenient. That doesn't really square with your subsequent comment that the violence wasn't justified.

I'm hoping your initial comment can be written off to a poor choice of words and your latter sentiments are a better reflection of your true opinion on the subject.

Posted by: schrodingerscat | October 22, 2010 10:32 PM | Report abuse

rukidding7 - Wow, the Yankees really get your ire up, huh? I happen to love 'em, but I seem to be a minority around here :) What's your problem with them? Is it George Steinbrenner? He's no longer with us. Is it their players? Most are excellent and professional and very un-hotdoggish. Who couldn't admire Derek Jeter? Is it their money? If the team you root for had as much, they'd "buy" players left and right and I'm sure you know it. Players don't have to be bought, do they? If the Yankees "buy" Cliff Lee, it's because he wants to be bought, so be mad at him. Plus, the Yanks don't "buy" all their good players; they happen to nurture an excellent farm team. And on top of that, they seem to be losing tonight, so what's the problem? P.S. If they lose, they'll be back :)

Posted by: carolanne528 | October 22, 2010 10:38 PM | Report abuse

@ruk: "I was watching the Lightning just whip the Atlanta Thrashers which is why my mind was focused on hockey."

D'oh. Well, considering how I live in Atlanta that's not very good news, but I have to admit that I don't follow hockey very closely.

Can't stand the Yankees, either - must be the contrarian in me. I also hate the Dallas Cowboys - you can imagine what that must've been like for me growing up in TX. Everytime I hear someone call them "America's Team" I want to throw something at the television.

Anyway, the fact that it's the Yankees that the Rangers are playing makes this all doubly sweet. I've waited a LONG time to see TX get this far. I'm not celebrating yet, though....I might jinx it. :)

Posted by: schrodingerscat | October 22, 2010 10:42 PM | Report abuse

leichtman,

"Interesting I have not read one condemnation of that radical and dangerous statment by a GOP Congressional candidate."

What you gotta do, bro, unless you just want to sing with the Hive Tabernacle Chorale, is actually read the primary source news report that jacked the whole kerfuffle into the cycle:

"In a rambling exchange during a TV interview, Broden, a South Dallas pastor, said a violent uprising “is not the first option,” but it is “on the table.” That drew a quick denunciation from the head of the Dallas County GOP, who called the remarks “inappropriate.”

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/102210dnmetbroden.1b2338185.html

Posted by: tao9 | October 22, 2010 10:53 PM | Report abuse

Rangers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whoooo!!!!

Posted by: schrodingerscat | October 22, 2010 11:17 PM | Report abuse

So, I'm skimming over this sewer of a thread and thinking about how many trashy new liberals are, along with ruk, dragging this blog into the gutter when what do I come upon but yet another comical attack by ruk:

"And did Q.Beck acknowledge his mistake. No is holy arrogance came back with a right wing link. YES"

I recommended that you study Jihad Watch and posted this link: http://www.meforum.org/1754/peace-or-jihad-abrogation-in-islam

That's one of many placed you can inform yourself about the doctrine of abrogation and what the Koran actually says about jihad and murder of infidels. That is, you could if you actually had any interest in knowledge rather than ingorant tirades. It's a very factual and footnoted and well documented article by a scholar, in a journal edited by scholars at major universities. And of course you don't challenge a single fact in it. You just paste the same talking points that this article completely refutes.

"Q.Beck knows more about the Quran than ReligionFACT...and the Prophet Muhammed himself. Of course using his usual sophistry Q.Beck claims that it doesn't matter what religionfact or Muhammed said because HE the ALMIGHT Q.BECK can interpret everyone's words for them..."

You actually think because you pasted something from a site called "religionfact" that the name makes it irrefutable "fact"? You really are that stupid? You actually think Wikipedia is authoritative?

I didn't make any claims about knowing a lot; I just pointed out some basic facts that I know that you and the rest of the Islamo-apologists who recite your talking points don't, and I provided a link providing detailed factual support.

Btw, it's obvious that you didn't even bother to read any of it, from your ridiculous claim that I said "it doesn't matter what . . . Muhammed said." If you had done any reading or had even minimal knowledge, you would know that the doctrine of abrogation is original to old Mo himself, and that it is his own words in the Koran that abrogate the pleasant verse you again quote. It is the words of Mo himself that command his followers to wage jihad and kill those unbelievers who will not submit and convert. What do you think of those verses, ruk? Why don't you discuss them? You think you know better than Mo?

All you do is embarrass yourself on this blog every day, with your ignorance and inability to follow logic, and your juvenile insults.

Posted by: quarterback1 | October 22, 2010 11:32 PM | Report abuse

According to Fox News, the figure is $3.3 million in federal funding out of a total NPR budget of $166 million. 1.99 percent. Leichtman was right, you are wrong. How shocking.

Posted by: bearclaw1 | October 22, 2010 8:24 PM
-------

Okay. I guess I'll have to give you this one since you and I and leichtman1 all consider Fox News the final word on matters.

Posted by: Brigade | October 22, 2010 11:54 PM | Report abuse

Btw the claim pasted by ruk that Islam's reputation for being spread by the sword is false could itself hardly be more false. Islam was spread literally by the sword going back to Mohammed himself, whose actual career was mainly as a violent warlord/thief. He was a murderor and he taught and ordered his followers in the Koran to follow his example. Don't be fooled by ignorarant people like ruk. Sorry but that is the unhappy truth.

Posted by: quarterback1 | October 23, 2010 4:30 AM | Report abuse

Btw the claim pasted by ruk that Islam's reputation for being spread by the sword is false could itself hardly be more false. Islam was spread literally by the sword going back to Mohammed himself, whose actual career was mainly as a violent warlord/thief. He was a murderor and he taught and ordered his followers in the Koran to follow his example. Don't be fooled by ignorarant people like ruk. Sorry but that is the unhappy truth.

Posted by: quarterback1 | October 23, 2010 4:31 AM | Report abuse

NRO goes full-bore attack on NPR this morning. No surprise, of course. In the modern rightwing framing, as Yglesias and others have noted, any media organization which isn't stridently conservative represents another example of liberal bias.

I'll make the point again that this framing isn't merely a wonderful example of post-modern thought (no objectivity possible, or 'everything is political' as the frenchies held) but it is a necessary justification for the modern right's broad engagement in propaganda mechanisms. As Norquist said, in a moment of honesty, the non-conservative media thinks it ought to be fair while the rightwing media "is self-consciously conservative and self-consciously part of the team."

(No mention yet that I could see of the wikileaks story)

Posted by: bernielatham | October 23, 2010 8:45 AM | Report abuse

Weekly Standard tosses its NPR attack right up top too and the sun will rise this morning in the east.

No mention in either of the statements from another of Clarence Thomas' exes on his prior role as film critic. We know how they'll go on this (she's out for money) but it's a question as to whether they'll mention it much or at all. That surely depends on what level of coverage the issue gets.

Posted by: bernielatham | October 23, 2010 8:51 AM | Report abuse

Folks were a tad perplexed as to why Thomas' wife had left that message on Hill's voicemail at this point in time. It looks like they got wind that McEwan was shopping her book and of the content in it.

Posted by: bernielatham | October 23, 2010 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Greenwald (god, what a treasure this fellow has become) notes the utterly insane lack of balance in the outrage over Williams' sacking compared with prior such examples. And then he makes a point so obvious I really should have twigged on it myself.

"I'm still not quite over the most disgusting part of the Juan Williams spectacle yesterday: watching the very same people (on the Right and in the media) who remained silent about or vocally cheered on the viewpoint-based firings of Octavia Nasr, Helen Thomas, Rick Sanchez, Eason Jordan, Peter Arnett, Phil Donahue, Ashleigh Banfield, Bill Maher, Ward Churchill, Chas Freeman, Van Jones and so many others, spend all day yesterday wrapping themselves in the flag of "free expression!!!" and screeching about the perils and evils of firing journalists for expressing certain viewpoints. Even for someone who expects huge doses of principle-free hypocrisy -- as I do -- that behavior is really something to behold. And anyone doubting that there is a double standard when it comes to anti-Muslim speech should just compare the wailing backlash from most quarters over Williams' firing to the muted acquiescence or widespread approval of those other firings.

But there's one point from all of this I really want to highlight. The principal reason the Williams firing resonated so much and provoked so much fury is that it threatens the preservation of one of the most important American mythologies: that Muslims are a Serious Threat to America and Americans..."
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/10/22/muslims/index.html

He quotes/links Jason Linkins:
"Yesterday, NPR cashiered correspondent Juan Williams for doing something that had hitherto never been considered an offense in media circles: defaming Muslims. Up until now, you could lose your job for saying intemperate things about Jews and about Christians and about Matt Drudge. You could even lose a job for failing to defame Muslims. But we seem to be in undiscovered country at the moment."

And Glenn writes:
"There are too many interests served by anti-Muslim fear-mongering to allow that to change"

Read this piece. Save this piece. It's brilliant and shines light into the dark places which modern and long-standing mythologies function to make invisible.

Posted by: bernielatham | October 23, 2010 9:27 AM | Report abuse

All, here's a fresh Open Thread for you:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/10/open_thread_9.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | October 23, 2010 9:40 AM | Report abuse

"I'll make the point again that this framing isn't merely a wonderful example of post-modern thought (no objectivity possible, or 'everything is political' as the frenchies held) but it is a necessary justification for the modern right's broad engagement in propaganda mechanisms. As Norquist said, in a moment of honesty, the non-conservative media thinks it ought to be fair while the rightwing media "is self-consciously conservative and self-consciously part of the team."

How is The Nation, The New Republic, Mother Jone or even The Plum Line any different a "propaganda mechanism"?

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | October 23, 2010 9:44 AM | Report abuse

McWing:

"How is The Nation, The New Republic, Mother Jone or even The Plum Line any different a "propaganda mechanism"?"

I have been asking Bernie that question for months. He steadfastly refuses to provide an answer. Maybe you will have better luck, but I suspect you won't. At some point honest people will be justified in concluding that Bernie refuses to answer because he doesn't have one, and that he is just blowing partisan smoke. Or, in other words, he just a propagandist himself when it comes to his whole propaganda monomania.

Posted by: ScottC3 | October 23, 2010 11:35 AM | Report abuse

"How is The Nation, The New Republic, Mother Jone or even The Plum Line any different a "propaganda mechanism"?"

For starters none of these entities use LIES and distortions to push their agendas. Such as Government takeover of health care system and socialized medicine. This meme has been used over and over again when it is clearly an absurd charge. Again for those not bright enough to understand.
Govrernment takeover would at minimum involved socialized medicine..at maximum would be socialized medicine with NO private practice allowed. Even England doesn't have that. But let's just stick with "socialized medicine."
Again wingnuts..the U.S. has socialized medicine it's called the V.A. The Gov't owns and operates hospitals and hires/fires providers and staff.
Single payer...Gov't takeover of insurance ala Canada...we come close to having that in our country with Medicare although PRIVATE insurance supplements MOST recipients needs. Medicaid...yeah single payer.

Did Obama go for a V.A for all? NO
Did Obama go for Medicare for all? NO
Did Obama go for Medicaid for all? NO

He went for a reform of our PRIVATE insurance system. But PROPAGANDISTS like faux news and others just keep repeating the LIE over and over again.."government takeover"

Lying and distorting is propaganda...presenting one's agenda could be called "slanting" at the most.

Fox repeatedly and purposely uses WRONG video to illustrate their stories..and often "accidentally" (according to them) misleading Chyron ID's. Example...Mark Foley identified as a Democrat under his pic...ooops sorry "honest" mistake...corrected by the evening on the Bill O'Reilly show where Faux no longer identified him as a Democrat...or course they also didn't id him as an R. Just a simple oversight I'm sure. There was the false video employed by Hannity to illustrate Beck's 9/12 gathering...there is Roger Ailes famous comments about "if I have to hire an liberal I'm going to get the dumbest f87K I can find" which of course lends great credence to the entire "Fair and Balanced" claim now doesn't it.

Posted by: rukidding7 | October 23, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

"NPR gets 2% of their money from the govt the other 98% from Pledges. Perhaps the radical right thinks that is how they will balance the budget.And JW is now playing the victim card, how pathetic. What happened to the free market place? Posted by: leichtman1"

It was a Fox publicity stunt all along. Williams hasn't had an unusual thought to add to NPR in years, and when NPR shot down the Black oriented program that was his last refuge, he could see the end coming.

So he becomes as provocative as he can, knowing that Fox has offered him this outrageous contract, so he can go off to his sinecure while posing as a martyr to PC.

He won't be missed.

Posted by: ceflynline | October 23, 2010 1:28 PM | Report abuse

"But of course, I'm not (for example) a religious conservative living in a rural area that's been overrun by methamphetamine abuse. So perhaps it's a matter of perspective. Posted by: CalD "

If Paul weren't so publicly "Christian" it wouldn't resonate at all. But when you decide that your "Christianity" is one of your prime assets in an election, and your opposition says, "OK, explain this." you either go the Tammy Faye route or you try to change the subject.

Paul isn't convincing confessing sin and error, so he wants to get by with thye Bush defense, "That is old news."

When he recognizes the peril in that old news, he needs to do something about it, and there just isn't much he can do.

Aqua Buddah will only be the butter fly part of the hurricane, but it does seem to be moving lots of air.

Posted by: ceflynline | October 23, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

"I didn't say I am. But I'm also not afraid of a bunch of fat peetardiers. As for Kent State, two of the students killed, Sandra Scheuer and William Knox Schroeder, had been walking from one class to the next at the time of their deaths. Schroeder was a member of the campus ROTC. So that is your example of conservative courage? Congratulations on killing innocent, unarmed people, and an ROTC member. You are so very brave. Posted by: bearclaw1"

There lots of lessons to be learned from the KS shootings, and one of them is that misuse of official force is generally a very bad idea.

The Guardsmen who were sent to Kent State had virtually no roit training, and were a little surprised to be called up at all.

Why? Because Ohio had a couple of very well trained units that regularly got called in for riot duty. They regularly did drills where aggressors taunted them, threw things at them, and generally behaved like rioters. In the sixties there were regular riotrs every summer at Russel's Point, on Indian lake, and there were lots of guardsmen who were quite adept at bringing riots under control.

Where were those riot trained units? Out patrolling the Interstates in Rat Patrol jeeps armed with fifty calo machine guns, because there was a nationwide trucker's strike, and there were uncoroborated claims that Teamsters goons would be shooting at any trucki still driving from over passes, and Governor Rhodes wanted to make sure that that didn't happen.

By the way, there is no safety on a .50 cal, and the gun rides in an open bolt configuration, so it is possible for a hard jolt to send a couple rounds in some arbitrary direction, but Rhodes didn't know or care about that.

So, since Rhodes had his trained troops out patrolling the Interstate, rather fatuously, he didn't have them for their normal alternate duty, riot quelling.

So an untrained and poorly disciplined unit got activated and sent into Kent State, badly briefed and totally unprepared.

Of coure, nobody told the rioters that Ohio sends ITS riot troops into action with live rounds in their magazines and their magazines in their rifles. (Better practice is to go in with your ammunition out of the weapons, and only lock and load on orders from high enough up to prevent shakey troops from firing in panic.) So the rioters, many being veterans of other riots in other states, decided that the usual rules applied and did their usual posturing, to the detrement of innocent bystanders as well as to their own detriment.

Rhodes bears most of the blame, because he was so busy backing his friends in the trucking business that he was unable to properly respond to a real threat to public order.

Posted by: ceflynline | October 23, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

I think Rand Paul is having fun with this ad, actually. I think he thinks Conway is revolting and did something that blew up in his (Conway's) face. And he's happy to point it out.

Posted by: sailingaway1 | October 24, 2010 11:52 AM | Report abuse

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