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By Greg Sargent

Rough waters ahead.

By Greg Sargent  | November 7, 2010; 8:58 AM ET
Categories:  Miscellaneous  
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Lindsey Graham wants to start a third war with Iran. He wants to be "bold", which is like wearing a bright tie or a pastel fedora. And it seems like a good idea to me. What will we get?

1) obviously, another war will help cut the debt
2) a rousing cheer of support from reformers in Iran who have cousins and brothers and sisters they don't really like and war will help kill them off
3) the further friendliness from all other western countries who, it must be said, are already brimming with affection for US foreign policy as implemented over the last decade
4) a recognition from muslims worldwide that the US is so "bold" that it deserves love and respect rather than enmity, thus terrorist dangers will disappear further reducing military and security costs and the deficit
5) many more young American men (boys) and women (girls) who would, if they stayed in their communities with all the modern temptations and corrupting social influences, be spared such degradations through mortality or the character-building associated with moving about on no legs.

I can't think of a better future.

Posted by: bernielatham | November 7, 2010 9:15 AM | Report abuse

Link for all the war-mongering wonderfulness above here...
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/11/07/graham-iran-neuter/

Posted by: bernielatham | November 7, 2010 9:18 AM | Report abuse

Mayor Michael Bloomberg gives it up for the Tea Party candidates and their supporters... h/t Andrew Sullivan)

“If you look at the U.S., you look at who we’re electing to Congress, to the Senate—they can’t read. I’ll bet you a bunch of these people don’t have passports. We’re about to start a trade war with China if we’re not careful here, only because nobody knows where China is. Nobody knows what China is,"
http://gothamist.com/2010/11/06/bloomberg_talks_electric_taxis_in_h.php

How long before Limbaugh starts referring to the failings of Chinese policy and ideology as exactly the same as Obama's and advising, "Yes my friends, these are the chinks in their so-called armor"? A week? A month?

Posted by: bernielatham | November 7, 2010 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Bob Herbert's assessment of Tuesday's election.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Neither party talked about the wars during the campaign because neither party has anything satisfactory to say about them. And there was hardly any talk about education. We know that a quality education is more important now than ever, but we are firing teachers by the scores of thousands, not because they are incompetent, but because state and local budgets have hemorrhaged.

Our leaders in Washington seem entirely out of touch with the needs, the hopes, the fears and the anxieties of the millions of Americans who are out of work, who are struggling with their mortgages or home foreclosures, who are skimping on needed medication in order to keep food on the table, and who lie awake at night worrying about what the morning will bring. No one even dares mention the poor.

What this election tells me is that real leadership will have to come from elsewhere, from outside of Washington, perhaps from elected officials in statehouses or municipal buildings that are closer to the people, from foundations and grass-roots organizations, from the labor movement and houses of worship and community centers.

The civil rights pioneers did not wait for presidential or Congressional leadership, nor did the leaders of the women’s movement. They plunged ahead with their crucial work against the longest odds and in the face of seemingly implacable hostility. Leaders of the labor movement braved guns, bombs, imprisonment and heaven knows what else to bring fair wages and dignity to working people."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/06/opinion/06herbert.html?src=me&ref=general

Posted by: lmsinca | November 7, 2010 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Yesterday, in response to the saber rattling on Iran, I recommended leaving oil prices as low as possible until the American austerity program for the middle class and the poor (the rich don't do austerity) is under way, so that an economic recovery is possible for them too.

This comment is laughable coming from a pansy like Graham (watch his performance in front of a town hall a year ago on YouTube...well making a shrink violet)

"...not just neutralize their nuclear program . . . but to sink their navy, destroy their air force and deliver a decisive blow to the Revolutionary Guard...In other words, neuter that regime."

Sure Lindsay, the'll just lie back and take it, pretend its not happening.

SO yesterday, I said "we" will have a lot easier go of it getting it on (re-electing Obama ?!? is the whole point of the exercise, according to Graham) with those rag heads in Yemen. Sure enough, that is where we are headed. No drone fired missiles yet, but if you think there won't be, you don't know anything about American foreign policy.

Posted by: shrink2 | November 7, 2010 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Mark Blumenthal has an interesting piece on public polling, and specifically, why the public polling in Nevada was so far off the final results. Turns out, the internal polling conducted for BOTH campaigns were right on the money, and were showing near identical results...that going into the final weeks of the race, Sharron Angle was behind Reid, not ahead.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/05/not-all-polls-were-wrong-_n_779705.html

Posted by: suekzoo1 | November 7, 2010 10:01 AM | Report abuse

From now on, if we declare any more wars, the draft should be on the table and the top tax rate should be increased by 10% to pay for it.

Every increase of troop deployment should coincide with an increase in the top rate. Period.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | November 7, 2010 10:11 AM | Report abuse

mike: "if we declare any more wars, the draft should be on the table"

The draft should be enacted automatically.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | November 7, 2010 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Perriello's result was much tighter than the pollsters also. They had anywhere from 12% to 25% margin for Hurt.

Perriello ended up losing by 4%.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | November 7, 2010 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Not only should it be enacted, there shouldn't be any sort of college deferments either.

This is everyone's country. Everyone needs to pitch in. No more overwhelmingly poor folks defending the country.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | November 7, 2010 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Since when do we have to "declare" wars? Besides, they pay for themselves (right Rummy?) or even if they don't, the money to fight them goes to the craven mercenaries I mean patriots at Balckwater/Xe and the money for the "reconstruction" goes to Haliburton. Besides, Republican deficits don't matter.

Posted by: shrink2 | November 7, 2010 10:25 AM | Report abuse

"Besides, they pay for themselves (right Rummy?)"

Nah, the oil revenues pay for them. ;o)

Posted by: suekzoo1 | November 7, 2010 10:28 AM | Report abuse

One more thing "our" next war (I'll try not to mangle any more sentences...well, maybe a shrinking violet)...If we are going to send someone like Colin Powell, to destroy their own career to sell our casus belli in front of cameras at the United Nations, could we not cover up the Guernica tapestry next time? They said they covered it because it made for bad optics, but actually covering it up was bad optics, not to mention the truth.

Posted by: shrink2 | November 7, 2010 10:44 AM | Report abuse

544878080808 and Insinca


The Rare Earth story has been one of classic dumping.

The Chinese came in, they lowered the prices for their Rare Earths - and took over the market


The Chinese were allowed to do this - and the US and other mines were forced to close

Now the Chinese control over 90% of the market, and they are trying to put the squeeze onto Japanese companies who need to purchase the metals.


Apple Computer is particularly a potential target - I believe the iphone uses Rare Earths.

I'm not sure exactly what the chemical properties are which make the Rare Earths desirable.


There is also a mine up in Canada which has to be re-activated in order to alleviate this situation.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Some Republican lawmakers — still reveling in Tuesday’s statewide election sweep — are proposing an unprecedented solution to the state’s estimated $25 billion budget shortfall: dropping out of the federal Medicaid program.

The Heritage Foundation, a conservative research organization, estimates Texas could save $60 billion from 2013 to 2019 by opting out of Medicaid and the Children’s Health Insurance Program, dropping coverage for acute care but continuing to finance long-term care services.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/us/politics/07ttmedicaid.html?_r=1
----------------------------------------------
@shrink,

All silos, heads up.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | November 7, 2010 11:46 AM | Report abuse

REALITY CHECK

The democrats just lost the election on two issues: health care and the tax issue.


So it would not make any sense to continue to beat the drums on those issues - and lose more support.

Obama's actions have been irrational - Obama is destroying his own career and the democratic party

Obama has developed a Napoleonic complex resulting from his sense of inferiority by being in so many affirmative action programs.

This has resulted in overly aggressive behavior and irrational risk-taking actions.


Someone has to stop him.

A 25th Amendment solution ???


Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 11:46 AM | Report abuse

imsinca and Beautiful/STRF:

I wrote this on the other thread, but it applies to both of your posts today.


In fact the Molycorp mine is currently closed but will reopen sometime in 2011. It supposedly has just restarted processing previously mined ores this month. No mining is currently being done.

Various analysts have been warning about buying Molycorp stock for sometime, as it is a company essntially without revenues. It does have some signed contracts for future delivery. There is another US company, Rare Earth Resources, in the same boat, but their mine is not scheduled to open until 2013.

The problem is not just finding these elements, which as has been pointed out, are less rare than gold. The problem is also the processing. China essentially has no environmental regulation so they will always be able to undercut price in the world market. Simply opening new mines, will not change their control of the market.

So my point is still the same. Most "green" people have no concept that we are handing our energy production and consumption essentially speaking to Chinese control.

Posted by: 54465446 | November 7, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

BLACK REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN says the False Charges of Racism against the Tea Party failed


From the Hill:

"Florida's first black Republican congressman credited the Tea Party with standing up against allegations of racism from the left in supporting his successful candidacy.

“So I think that the -- the liberal progressives saw the strength of the grass-roots movement that we call the Tea Party which stands for 'taxed enough already' and they tried to turn against it,” Rep.-elect Allen West (R-Fla.) said Friday on "Hannity" on Fox News.

“And the number one thing that you always try to do to silence an opponent in the United States of America is to call someone a racist.”

West said that attempts to tarnish the Tea Party did not foil his campaign. “And we see that that did not work whatsoever,” he said."

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 11:49 AM | Report abuse

beautiful:

Stop writing nonsense, and start making the rational arguments for your theories which you are capable of.

Posted by: 54465446 | November 7, 2010 11:50 AM | Report abuse

@numbers,

You seem to have an informed view on the rare earth monopoly, if that's the right word. What steps should the U.S. take to break that monopoly?

I'm not interested in arguing today. I had to put my dog down yesterday, and arguing about politics seems so insignificant to the loss of him, I can barely stand it.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | November 7, 2010 11:57 AM | Report abuse

More thoughts on going green:

The above post is just a hint why the electric car, as opposed to a hybrid, is a non-starter. People who live in a downtown metropolitan area would probably find such a vehicle useful (but that is a very small market). Anywhere outside, buying would be restricted to the passionate, and the well off.

The problem is that an electric car is not in any way new technology. There have been electric vehicles just about as long as there have been IC engine vehicles. Electric cars did not make it because they are inferior technology for what a car does. We have improved the battery a ton, but a car dependent on a battery still:

1)does not provide enough power

2)needs very long recharge times

3)has a limited range.

To say that the electric car is any kind of answer to our problems is like saying we should eliminate jets and go back to propellor driven planes. There is nothing wrong with a propellor driven plane, and many people still fly them, but it is yesterday's tech, not tomorrow's.

Ok, is it kickoff time yet? I hate waiting an extra hour for the games to begin!

Posted by: 54465446 | November 7, 2010 12:04 PM | Report abuse

12bar:

Very sorry for you loss.

I'm not sure that you can break the monopoly because given currency, market and environmental condtions, we have nothing going for us in that regard.

I believe a better idea is to quit investing in dead end tech, and work on things like hydrogen, nuclear and or cold fusion?

In short, you can't beat them at their own game, but you might be able to leap frog them.

Posted by: 54465446 | November 7, 2010 12:08 PM | Report abuse

12B that is an awful experience, I am sorry to hear it. There is no way to get through it but cry, that is all I know about it. When I run with my next dog, now 3yo, I still feel it in the pit of my stomach, just once in awhile that "Betty" my dog that died 4 years ago is missing all the fun at her favorite spots, certain fields and a pond. Makes me feel like a sap to think about old dead dogs, but dogs they sure are trusty, they deserve our care, they earn it.

Posted by: shrink2 | November 7, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

54465446 at 11:48 AM

On the Rare Earth

I was making the point that there are mines which can be re-opened in Canada and Australia.


That is tricky for investors, because with a flood of additional supply, it is difficult to predict prices.


FREE TRADE - This is precisely a free trade issue.

On one level, free trade should be taking advantage of comparative advanatages.

However, on several issues, wouldn't it be wise to have some tariff system to level the playing field.


For instance, if the Chinese do not have comparable environmental compliance, slap a tariff on those products to equalize the playing field, or even to give a price advantage to the "clean" products.


Same with child labor and other labor standards.


For instance, if Obama's health care plan costs $1 per hour for some workers, slap a tariff on those Chinese products equal to that one dollar per hour of labor.

There isn't a fair cost basis for trade if one product includes health care for the workers, and the other product has no health insurance costs in the production costs.


The FLAW in the system is the Free Trade deals -

And that is because Bill Clinton took massive amounts of money from international companies to SELL OUT AMERICA and push through these unbalanced trade deals.

The democrats were also taking money from China and Indonesia in the 1990s.


The DEMOCRATS SOLD AMERICA OUT.


.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

54458686456


54486490757 wants "rational arguments" but he forgets that most numbers are irrational


.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 12:13 PM | Report abuse

BB:

Do we sell billions in Treasuries to the Chinese before or after we slap them around, because I think they might be pretty mad after.

Also, when they reduce exports to the world of lantahanides, do we concede like the Japanese did in two days, or should we wait a full week for pride sake?

Posted by: 54465446 | November 7, 2010 12:15 PM | Report abuse

@shrink and numbers,

I'm all about crying today.

@numbers,

I can't argue with your proposal to leapfrog the technology. I don't know jack about the problem, though. I was just interested in what an informed person would suggest.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | November 7, 2010 12:16 PM | Report abuse

BB:

Stop with the caps and big spaces, or I'm not going to address you anymore.

Kickoff is in 45 minutes so I'm not playing around.

Posted by: 54465446 | November 7, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

"Ok, is it kickoff time yet?"

There are other games? The UofNike Ducks already crushed our hated rivals, the University of Spoiled Children and The Dogs, just yesterday. Quack quack.

As you may know our fair city, PDX is throwing in big time with electric cars, hundreds of recharging stations are being planned and built around the city and up and down The 5. Their batteries are supposed to become the decentralized, mobile, mass storage devices for green energy sources like wind and solar. We'll let you know how it goes. ;-}

Posted by: shrink2 | November 7, 2010 12:19 PM | Report abuse

54465446 at 11:48 AM

The Free Trade deals allowed the dumping of the Rare Earth market - and someone in the US should have been watching this - and making sure it did not happen


Im not sure about your "green" argument - could you re-state it so I understand what you are saying?

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 12:19 PM | Report abuse

I found this in Planetgreen 54465446. It's clear we've lost our edge and we need more investment in research and development than ever. Good luck with that. Enjoy the game, I'm out for other reasons.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"So what can be done? After being asleep at the wheel for too long, the U.S. House of Representatives recently passed legislation that would support U.S. Department of Energy efforts to improve our access to lanthanides and rare earths, according to The Wall Street Journal. Mark A. Smith, CEO of domestic rare earths producer Molycorp Minerals, testified to Congress this spring that his company’s facility in Mountain Pass, Calif., sits atop one of the richest rare earth deposits on the planet. The problem, though, is that according to GAO, it could take the United States 15 years to develop a reliable rare earths supply chain.

That’s why many EV proponents are holding out hope that scientists will find a way to work around a potential lanthanides shortage. EE Times reports that researchers backed by Japanese government have developed a next-generation electric motor that doesn’t require rare earth metals. An article in Hybridcars.com opines that although the motor isn’t yet ready for production, it “could provide companies like Toyota and Honda with the means to completely cut Chinese resources headaches out of the equation.”

http://planetgreen.discovery.com/tech-transport/will-a-lanthanides-shortage-hurt-evs.html

Posted by: lmsinca | November 7, 2010 12:27 PM | Report abuse

12Bar

I'm sorry about your dog, I know how hard it is and only time will heal the loss unfortunately. At some point in the future you'll be able to enjoy the memories without the tears, but for now tears are exactly what the doctor ordered.

Enjoy your Sunday all.

Posted by: lmsinca | November 7, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

shrink:

In the city it might work fine. Your trips are short and recharge time will be short too.

There's little that is green about wind and solar though. They rely on mining, (see above posts) They are also useful on a small scale but unsuitable for large power generation.

Posted by: 54465446 | November 7, 2010 12:31 PM | Report abuse

imsinca:

That is the story of the electric car for the last 100 years is it not?

There's always a better battery or motor coming soon.

As I noted above, you can't just dig up the stuff, the processing is the real nightmare.

Posted by: 54465446 | November 7, 2010 12:35 PM | Report abuse

BB:

Not sure what other way I can put it. All this talk about trade wars with China doesn't pay any attention to weapons. What do we have to use against them?

We are no longer a production economy but a consumption economy. If we hinder Chinese products, that will mean negative changes in our own GDP. Also If the Chinese stop buying Treasuries, the Fed will have to buy even more to make up for the shortfall, OR pay much higher yields to attract other buyers. Higher yields in the 10 year Treasury would mean much higher mortgage rates killing our recovery.

And so on and so forth.

With me?

Posted by: 54465446 | November 7, 2010 12:40 PM | Report abuse

54465446 at 11:48 AM

The first thing is the Trade agreements - because there are anti-dumping laws.

The second issue is to declare Rare Earths some sort of "strategic material" which deserves special protections - and protections aimed at keeping alternative sources economically viable.

This can be done.

Australia has potential source, as does Canada and the US.

54465446 - you raise an additional issue, which is the economic advantage given to the Chinese by less restrictive environmental laws.

Again, this should be addressed in the Free Trade deals - and there should be a tariff-incentive program for strong environmental laws. The costs of environmental protection should be calculated into the tariffs.

In fact, such a Free Trade agreement could provide the Chinese an incentive to have better environmental laws - by creating a system in which "dirty" production methods get higher tariffs, and "clean" production methods get lower tariffs (a larger break to compensate more than the actual costs of the compliance.)

It can be done. But the international corporations are always trying to hand out campaign contributions to stop such efforts, or to dilute them. Bill Clinton and the democrats have done this time after time.


Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

GenMod Algae will save us! Photosynthesis is the only truly green source of solar energy, get it, chlorophyll is green? No not bio-diesel, that is so last decade. Nowadays, the focus is on about making high value products now made from petroleum and...wait for it...electricity.

Posted by: shrink2 | November 7, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

12Bar: So sorry to hear about your dog. I know how devastating that is. :(

Posted by: schrodingerscat | November 7, 2010 12:47 PM | Report abuse

So then the Chinese are going to accept our tariffs and not retaliate?

Posted by: 54465446 | November 7, 2010 12:47 PM | Report abuse

shrink:

What is going to make the electricity?

Posted by: 54465446 | November 7, 2010 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Battleground wrote this yesterday, and I already switched threads. So before kickoff in a few minutes allow me to leaven the thread with this:


battleground wrote:

"Arizona has shown the way for immigration enforcement in America. All branches of law enforcement must pitch in and help stop the invasion. It's the only way"

In 2008 according to US statistics about 7.3 million people were under some form of correctional supervision nationwide (probation, prison, jail, parole). That's at every level of govenment.

Estimates vary, but the minimum number of illegals in the US that I have seen is 10 million.

Where on earth would you come up with the resources in the criminal justice system to double the number of people being adjudicated?

Furthermore, where would you hold them temporarily, and how would you transport them back to other countries?

Your suggestions may be well-intentioned, but are totally inconsistent with the reality of the undertaking.

Posted by: 54465446 | November 7, 2010 12:53 PM | Report abuse

54465446 at 12:40 PM

The Fed is dumping a trillion dollars into the system - they have a great deal more control over interest rates than you are stating -

FREE TRADE - there was never supposed to be these trade deficits under Free Trade

Under international economic models, trade is supposed to balance itself out in a free market. That isn't happening. So, the Free Trade agreements have to modified to provide for what the models aim - balanced trade.

How about this - we buy as much as they buy - just stop the trade once a year for a month to stop the deficit.

That would solve the Treasuries problem too - stop the buying of Treasuries.

Yes, there will be economic consequences - but no less than what is going on right now.

Living within one's means is not a calamity - it is a necessity.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse

The hydrogen they produce using CO2.

If a fraction of the money we've spent on "the war on terror" were spent on hydrogen production, there would be no way the terrorists could fight. After all, if you exclude oil and gas production, I read somewhere recently the entire manufacturing output of the Arab world, from Libya to Iraq, all of it, is equivalent to that of Finland.

Posted by: shrink2 | November 7, 2010 12:59 PM | Report abuse

BB wrote:

"How about this - we buy as much as they buy - just stop the trade once a year for a month to stop the deficit.

That would solve the Treasuries problem too - stop the buying of Treasuries."

Last post before kickoff.

The Chinese are reluctant to allow our goods to enter their market, for obvious reasons. Furthermore, what we are best at exporting like the jets in yesterday's trade pact, are things the Chinese are gearing up to sell themselves, not buy.

If you stop the buying of Treasuries the government shuts down. That's the way we finance operations on a day to day basis too. I understand the desire to stirke a blow somewhere, but you do that from strength, not our current position of weakness.

Posted by: 54465446 | November 7, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

12bar,

So sorry on the loss of your dog. I've found this little story to be comforting when I start missing my best friend.

http://www.petloss.com/poems/maingrp/rainbowb.htm

Godbless

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | November 7, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

(omitted the blather)

I can't think of a better future.

Posted by: bernielatham | November 7, 2010 9:15 AM
-------

We've noticed that. Drugs might help.

Posted by: Brigade | November 7, 2010 1:04 PM | Report abuse

5446979797

The Chinese have to be negotiated with - the Free Trade agreements need to have a fair basis - and one is BALANCE TRADE.

We can not have a Free Trade agreement which locks us into a trade DEFICIT.

The Chinese understand this.

Yes, the tariffs are one way to equalize the cost-basis for the trade - and to compensate for environmental compliance and health care.

_________________________


This issue is closely related to health care.

Obama's health care plan will cost some businesses which currently do not offer health insurance - the equivalent of $1 per hour of labor.

How are our American companies supposed to compete when the Chinese companies do not have to pay out the one dollar per hour in health costs?

The answer is a tariff - tax the Chinese goods coming in the equivalent of the $1 per hour in health costs.

That would equalize the playing field.


The Chinese should not retaliate on that basis.

The democrats rushed to pass the health care bill - they never considered what it would do to our trade positions.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Not only should it be enacted, there shouldn't be any sort of college deferments either.

This is everyone's country. Everyone needs to pitch in. No more overwhelmingly poor folks defending the country.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | November 7, 2010 10:22 AM
------

We'll wait with bated breath until Obama and the other liberals orchestrate such a bill. Had such a draft been instituted during the time of Bush41, Obama would likely be living in Canada instead of the White House.

Posted by: Brigade | November 7, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

@troll,

Thank you. This is very moving.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | November 7, 2010 1:14 PM | Report abuse

So my point is still the same. Most "green" people have no concept that we are handing our energy production and consumption essentially speaking to Chinese control.

Posted by: 54465446 | November 7, 2010 11:48 AM
-------

You could have stopped with "concept".

Posted by: Brigade | November 7, 2010 1:16 PM | Report abuse

"I can't think of a better future"
"We've noticed that. Drugs might help."

I know you are joking, but as one who has foisted many kilos (yes, tens of thousands of milligrams) of psychoactive Rx on people who feel hopeless and helpless, I feel qualified to say: a resilient, sunny disposition comes from (1) a certain kind of early childhood and (2) good genes.

That said, I am not the slightest bit qualified to opine in re political economy, foreign policy, nor even green energy, though I do have a four year degree in biological oceanography. But earlier someone, C3P I think it was, was making the point that being qualified (by which we usually mean well educated AND successfully experienced with the matter at hand) doesn't really mean anything, you can still be smarter than the experts.

Its Sunday and, speak of a sunny disposition, it just got sunny, s'later.

Posted by: shrink2 | November 7, 2010 1:16 PM | Report abuse

54465446 | November 7, 2010 1:02 PM

We are strong, not weak

you are being ridiculous - if we stop buying their crap, their factories will be shut down.

We need to negotiate out a fair basis for trade - they understand the problems in the system.


They are reluctant to let many of our companies into their markets. Fine - we make a rule that every year or every quarter all purchases have to equal out.

If they want to sell more to us, they have to buy more. It is pretty simple.


The trade deals are ridiculous.

Bill Clinton SOLD US OUT, the democrats gave us horrible trade deals - the democrats have to come to grips with the fact that the democrats TOOK SO MUCH MONEY FROM CORPORATE INTERESTS THAT EVERY AMERICAN IS NOW SUFFERING FOR IT.


The democrats sold us out, Bill Clinton sold us out.

Ross Perot was working with Clinton the whole time. It was a back-room deal. You can blame Ross Perot too.

.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 1:17 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues,
Sorry about your loss. We're pet lovers, currently with four, and I have been where you are today on multiple occasions.

As Mark Twain once said, If admittance to heaven were based on merit, a dog would be safe, but we'd all be in trouble. Or something like that.

Posted by: Brigade | November 7, 2010 1:22 PM | Report abuse

NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE


It is becoming increasingly clear that Obama is making irrational decisions.

Pressing ahead with the health care plan when everyone was telling Obama that it would mean massive election losses was COMPLETELY IRRATIONAL.

Pulling out of the bipartisan negotiations over the Financial Reg bill last spring - and offending people that Obama would have to work with later - that was COMPLETELY IRRATIONAL.

Getting the NAACP to level false charges of racism against million of Americans is COMPETELY IRRATIONAL

Running through 10 different campaign themes this year when the nation was angry with health care, was COMPLETELY IRRATIONAL


Being soft on terrorism is COMPLETELY IRRATIONAL.

Stating that the country can "absorb" another terrorist attack is COMPLETELY IRRATIONAL.

Trying to insist on a class struggle in the debate over the tax breaks - is COMPLETELY IRRATIONAL.


There is a pattern here - Obama has developed an inferiority complex from the Affirmative Action programs - which has resulted in OVERLY AGGRESSIVE AND IRRATIONAL BEHAVIOR, and insane decision-making. In short, a Napoleonic complex.


A 25th Amendment solution? I'm not so sure. However, the nation is being run by an IRRATIONAL PERSON WHO SHOULD NOT BE MAKING DECISIONS FOR HIMSELF, MUCH LESS THE NATION.


.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 1:28 PM | Report abuse

12B in order to distract you, I'll just mention in re your addressing this to me...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/us/politics/07ttmedicaid.html?_r=1

Yes, other silos, especially the long term care ones they intend to leave open, will be inundated with those not cared for in the ones that are closed. I think I mentioned yesterday that austerity in general (and the one breaking on our present from the future, which was borrowed away in the not too distant past) will be born by children and women first and foremost. Its that whole traditional family values thing.

Posted by: shrink2 | November 7, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

@brigade,

Thanks for your thought. At the present I'm really grieving. I know it will get better in time, but it sure doesn't change the heaviness in my heart right now.

This has nothing to do with anything, but...do you think that having more than one pet makes you less grief stricken when one dies. Or is it just times four?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | November 7, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

I would like to add to the above posting

Obama's statements this week about the election COMPLETELY IRRATIONAL.


Obama's trip to Asia COMPLETELY IRRATIONAL.


Obama's spending in Asia when the American public wants to cut the budgets COMPLETELY IRRATIONAL.


Seriously folks, Obama is completely unfit to govern, and even worse there seems to be some imbalance here.

.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

12B my now very old mom told me a decade ago she still cried inside every day for her son my little brother who died in a stupid, almost random accident at home one day. I actually discovered his body. That was when he was four and I was five. She has four other sons and two daughters. Nothing hurts more or longer than the death of innocents we love.

Posted by: shrink2 | November 7, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

@shrink,

I'm so sorry. If everyone who grieves were colored blue, the whole world would be blue.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | November 7, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Another pearl posted by bernielatham,
"We had a whole generation of journalists who sat by and did nothing while, for instance, George Bush led us into an idiotic war on a lie"
-------

Let me clarify for you. Some quotes posted by ScottC3 in an earlier thread shed light on why "a whole generation of journalists" sat by:

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology" --- Nancy Pelosi

"Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." --- Carl Levin

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country . . . Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power" --- Al Gore (the same Al Gore who now keeps us apprised of the dangers of man-made global warming)

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction" --- Ted Kennedy

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein ... the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real" --- John Kerry

These are but of a few of such quotes, some of which, oddly enough, date to before George W. Bush ever became President. In Bernie's quest for learning, he has conveniently overlooked---or at least never mentions---the many Democrats who shared Bush's concern and interpreted the intelligence the same way he did. When Bush said it, it was a lie, when Dems said it, they were either mistaken or had been duped by the wiley Bush and Cheney cabal---even to the point of actually voting to authorize the war.

This explains why there was so little media dissent. The invasion of Iraq was supported by Republicans and Democrats alike. Of course any Democrat who lived in the same neighborhood as Louis Farrahkan and Jeremiah Wright probably opposed the war.

Less easy to explain is why the tiresome task of pointing out something so simple must be undertaken over and over and over again. The mystery now is not why we invaded Iraq; the mystery is how people like Bernie can cling to the ignorant (yes ignorant) and irrational notion that this war was orchestrated by Bush over the opposition of Democrats. Could Bernie by chance be a victim of liberal propaganda?

Posted by: Brigade | November 7, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

This has nothing to do with anything, but...do you think that having more than one pet makes you less grief stricken when one dies. Or is it just times four?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | November 7, 2010 1:30 PM
-------

I can't remember the last time we only had one pet. I would guess having more than one would make it easier. I've never lost a child, thank God, but I'd guess losing one of four would be easier than losing the only one you had. I did lose an only dog once when I was a child on the farm, and it was REALLY hard. Shrink probably has better insight on this sort of thing.

I really do empathize with you. Stay strong.

Posted by: Brigade | November 7, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Brigade

You are correct - the democrats voted FOR the war

In fact the DNC in 2002 midterms told all its candidates to SUPPORT the Iraqi War - I was surprised by that


how soon we forget........

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Brigade

Im sure there is a Bill Clinton quote out there saying the same thing


"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology" --- Nancy Pelosi

____________________________


One has to remember the Israeli lobby in the US - which funded the NEOCONS - they wanted the US to go into Iraq


Saddam was funding the suicide bombers on the West Bank - and giving $25,000 to the families of the suicide bombers.


The Israeli idea is to attack Arab countries, one-by-one, in order to take out the strongest militaries in the region.


Another Palestinian- Israeli war is coming

This one might turn out differently.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 2:32 PM | Report abuse

HALFTIME!

BB:

You're back to the childish posting again. No more responses to you!


BRIGADE;

You didn't respond to my answer to yours about immigration. Lost interest?

Posted by: 54465446 | November 7, 2010 2:33 PM | Report abuse

"Where on earth would you come up with the resources in the criminal justice system to double the number of people being adjudicated?"

Why assume that illegals need to be "adjudicated" in the criminal justice system? Or be incarcerated for any extended periods for that purpose?

Most have simply entered illegally. They have no legal basis to be here. It doesn't take a criminal trial to establish that.

We also make it easy for illegals to stay here. In many contexts they are provided services and are protected from even having their status checked or reported. Stop enabling, and more would find their way back home.

There's a lot that can be done that doesn't require immediate roundup and deportation of 10 million people.

Posted by: quarterback1 | November 7, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

54465446 at 2:33 PM

Fine, I don't care.

I have made a valid point that Obama has been making irrational decisions on several fronts - these irrational decisions have damaged his career and the democratic party.

It is a complex. Ironically for someone with such an ego, it is an inferiority complex which causes overly aggressive and destructive decision making.


______________________


Most numbers are irrational too, don't forget that.


Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

numbers, I can't believe you talk to the WaPo troll, you don't think he can change do you?

You don't think he actually cares about other peoples' thoughts and feelings, do you?

See because that would be Liberal of you, in the history of ideas, I learned the liberal tradition derives from the idea of the noble savage, human exceptionalism, that our bad parts are derived from bad social institutions and so on such that with the right amount of education, corrective experience (like therapy for example) and proper social engineering in general, human badness can be eradicated.

Conservatives believe all people are bad to the bone, original sin etc. and that there can be no redemption in human endeavor, only through faith in God. So apart from all that, how is your Sunday going?


Posted by: shrink2 | November 7, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

54465446 at 2:33 PM

which game are you watching

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

12Bar, I'm so sorry about your beloved beast. I've had to put three dogs down in my life, and it never gets easier. In answer to your multi-pet question, we've always had more than one dog at a time, and I don't know that it makes the grieving any less but perhaps different. It's helped me to help my four-legged friends deal with their grief (because they *do* feel the loss). I also lost an uncle this summer due to cancer, and I get that same awful feeling in the pit of my stomach that you mention every time I watch a University of Michigan game this fall. . . although it makes it a little easier knowing that a bit of him is now in the south end zone (turns out we're not the first family to spread some ashes in The Big House). Peace, my friend!

Posted by: Michigoose | November 7, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Rough waters?

"To be defeated and yet not surrender, this is victory." ~ Jozef Pilsudski

Posted by: dozas | November 7, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Walgreens sues Wegmans in logo dispute.

Are the Nationals next?

Posted by: jak201 | November 7, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Shrink writes

You don't think he actually cares about other peoples' thoughts and feelings, do you?

_______________


This is a politics blog - and you want me to be sensitive to your "feelings?"

OK, I'm sorry if I ever hurt your "feelings" (wuss)


However, I would like you to know I never aimed to hurt you personally, only to make you recognize reality.

Do you have any thoughts on the Inferiority complex causing overly agressive decision-making, which results in unnecessary destruction?


Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Brigade

Whether Dems voted for the invasion of Iraq or not is not really the question, obviously they did. Now that we know even Republicans think it was a mistake, according to Rohrbacher (R CA) in an interview earlier this year with Norquist, why weren't there more voices out there saying STOP. The idea that everyone bought the charade or whatever you want to call it is what is troubling isn't it?

Thinking about all the conservative voices now expressing the need, desire, necessity or whatever of destroying Iran's nuclear and military capabilities such as they are, should give us all pause. Hopefully, there will be voices in the media and elsewhere waving a flag regarding this NEW war.

Posted by: lmsinca | November 7, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Rough waters?

"To be defeated and yet not surrender, this is victory." ~ Jozef Pilsudski

"yet, to be defeated and immediately set yourself for another defeat with a wild spending spree in Asia, this in insanity" - 37th

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Shrink

Let me get your posting correct

The people who talk to trolls are morally superior, because they talk to trolls.


And the Conservatives are actually savages.


Is that right?

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

RARE EARTH DISCUSSION

Does anyone know what chemical properties the rare Earth metals have which make them so useful?

Are there any viable alternatives?

How much more expensive are the alternatives.


By the way 544787878, I don't believe it will take 15 years to get the processing equipment up and running. The few mines just closed a few years ago. The equipment might still be there, or it shouldn't take that long to re-produce the equipment. The technology is there.


Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Just wanted to pop in and say goodbye to the crowd here. As I noted a bit over a month ago, family matters are now intervening and I won't be able to post much if at all. Thanks and best wishes to all but most particularly to the exceptional Mr Sargent who has outdone all my high expectations with this blog. Thanks, Greg.

Posted by: bernielatham | November 7, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Brigade:

"Could Bernie by chance be a victim of liberal propaganda?"

Not victim of, but rather promoter of.

Posted by: ScottC3 | November 7, 2010 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Bernie

OK - I'll pick up the slack for you.

Imsinca


I find it repulsive that after our young men have decided to give their lives for a war in Iraq, the democratic party would reverse their support and then start to rally against the war - all for domestic political gain.


The democrats NEVER really cared about national security - everything was a calculation based on domestic politics and the election prospects of the democrats


It really was pathetic.

It was outrageous.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

I call Bernie's allocation of postings.

So I can now post double without being cited for thread-bombing.


I called it first.

.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

It is true that Obama has been making irrational decisions - and this is the result of some grave personality disorder


Obama's economic team has left, perhaps that has something to do with Obama's disorder

Posted by: OrangeDogs | November 7, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse

@54465446

You had me seriously confused as I occasionally get addressed as BB for my sign-off. 37thandTrollstreet isn't worth engaging. I respect Greg's attempts to moderate the blog, but this one needs a troll watch.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | November 7, 2010 6:03 PM | Report abuse

This country finally came to it's senses


The voters are communicating just fine. It is Obama who is failing to listen.

Posted by: OrangeDogs | November 7, 2010 7:05 PM | Report abuse

BRIGADE;

You didn't respond to my answer to yours about immigration. Lost interest?

Posted by: 54465446 | November 7, 2010 2:33 PM
---------

I may very well be losing my mind. I don't recall making a post about immigration, at least not in the last few weeks. Please post snippets of the exhange and I'll try to respond.

Posted by: Brigade | November 7, 2010 7:06 PM | Report abuse

Imsinca wrote,

"Brigade

Whether Dems voted for the invasion of Iraq or not is not really the question, obviously they did. Now that we know even Republicans think it was a mistake, according to Rohrbacher (R CA) in an interview earlier this year with Norquist, why weren't there more voices out there saying STOP. The idea that everyone bought the charade or whatever you want to call it is what is troubling isn't it?"
-------

I don't think everyone who posts here is quite as rational as you. We hear a lot about how George W. Bush lied us into war, but those same voices rarely if ever mention the Democrats' complicity in the matter. The story is always about how Bush pulled the wool over their eyes, even though Democrats expressed the same concerns---even before Bush was President. One of the least covered and most disgraceful aspects of the entire affair is how 30 Democratic senators could vote to authorize the Iraq war and then later, after things began to go south, try to absolve themselves of all responsibility by claiming they didn't really understand what was happening.

As for Iran, I don't see any "non bi-partisan" war on the immediate horizon unless someone else starts it, which is a very real possibility.

Posted by: Brigade | November 7, 2010 7:20 PM | Report abuse

Brigade is right

Those democratic Senators are jokers

Let's list who they are.

Posted by: OrangeDogs | November 7, 2010 7:39 PM | Report abuse

Brigade

Apparently it was 29 democratic Senators who voted for the Iraqi War - only to see their party attempt to abandon the troops in the field after men had given their lives in battle

Max Baucus,
Evan Bayh,
Joe Biden,
John Breaux,
Maria Cantwell,
Jean Carnahan,
Tom Carper,
Max Cleland,
Hillary Clinton,
Tom Daschle,
Chris Dodd,
Byron Dorgan,
John Edwards,
Dianne Feinstein,
Tom Harkin,
Fritz Hollings,
Tim Johnson,
John Kerry,
Herb Kohl,
Mary Landrieu,
Joseph Lieberman,
Blanche Lincoln,
Zell Miller,
Bill Nelson,
Ben Nelson,
Harry Reid,
Jay Rockefeller,
Chuck Schumer,
Bob Torricelli


Interesting list. Harry Reid later said the war was lost, and wanted to cut and run.


Some of the names are still around.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 8:16 PM | Report abuse

Brigade:

My mistake, it was battleground.

EAGLES WIN!

Posted by: 54465446 | November 7, 2010 8:16 PM | Report abuse

Brigade

One other important point.

The democrats could have stopped the Iraqi War at the very beginning.

At the time, the democrats held 50 Senate Seats - more than enough for a filibuster.

In addition Senator Jeffords of Vermont was an Independent and voted against the resolution.

The democrats, in the majority, could have refused to even call a vote on the Iraqi War.

Clearly, the democratic party could have stopped the war.

.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 8:21 PM | Report abuse

Is bernielatham finally gone?

Posted by: clawrence12 | November 7, 2010 8:54 PM | Report abuse

Wow

Those democrats could have stopped the Iraqi War. But they didn't

They alll wanted the war

Blame them. No one lied to them. They were all adults.

They knew what they were doing

Posted by: OrangeDogs | November 7, 2010 9:01 PM | Report abuse

All they needed was 19 of those 29 to vote against the closure and the Iraqi War would have been stopped by filinuster


Complain to them. They were supposed to be the "Checks and Balances" on Bush.

Posted by: OrangeDogs | November 7, 2010 9:11 PM | Report abuse

Bernie may have been working fir some democratic committee. AstroTurf. When they leave they give some explanation. They don't say that the election is over and the office is disbanding

Posted by: OrangeDogs | November 7, 2010 9:22 PM | Report abuse

Bernie may have been working for some democratic committee. AstroTurf. When they leave they give some explanation. They don't say that the election is over and the office is disbanding

Posted by: OrangeDogs | November 7, 2010 9:35 PM | Report abuse

Keith Olbermann to return to the air on Tuesday to continue spewing government/MIP propaganda!

LIBERTE! EQUULITE! FRANTERNITE!

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/breaking-keith-olbermann-will-return-to-msnbc-tuesday/

bernielathem you magnificent b*stard! He read your comments!

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | November 7, 2010 9:54 PM | Report abuse

Whoops! EQUALITE! Dayum!

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | November 7, 2010 9:56 PM | Report abuse

Is anyone willing to defend Obama's decision making as rational?

Appears pretty irrational

Posted by: OrangeDogs | November 7, 2010 10:18 PM | Report abuse

TrollMcWingnut, so much for an "indefinite" suspension.

Posted by: clawrence12 | November 7, 2010 10:42 PM | Report abuse

clawrence

the suspension got definite real fast

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 10:50 PM | Report abuse

Looking ahead, the combination of States up for election in 2012 for the Senate favors the Republicans.

Overall, the Republicans have 14 pick-up opportunities.

This includes States in which the Republicans have won recent State-wide races. The Republicans have a solid chance of pick-ups in 10 States

In contrast, the democrats only have 2-3 possibilities for pick-ups.

This brings to STARK REALITY that the Republicans could reach the 60 votes needed in the Senate for a filibuster-proof majority. Every day that Obama appears out-of-touch only increases that probability.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 10:54 PM | Report abuse

The Republicans are within reach of gaining 60 votes in the Senate in 2012

Take a look at the maps.

Although a few of the States may not be easy, the Republicans have won elections recently in Pennsylvania, Ohio, New Jersey and Wisconsin. If those states stay with the Republicans, the 60 votes are within reach.

West Virginia has been close all this year.

It is totally crazy to see this much of a swing of the center of the nation. To think that the solid districts do not change hands, the center has had an almost complete switch toward the Republicans.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 7, 2010 11:11 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues--

Just checked in and read about the loss of your beloved pet. I'm so sorry. I know how much it hurts. I'm not sure why, but this quote from writer/naturalist Henry Beston always comes to mind when I think about the pets I've lost. He probably wasn't writing of pets, but still, it gave me comfort:

"For the animal shall not be measured by man. In a world older and more complete than ours they move finished and complete, gifted with extensions of the senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we shall never hear. They are not brethren, they are not underlings; they are other nations, caught with ourselves in the net of life and time..."

Posted by: carolanne528 | November 7, 2010 11:11 PM | Report abuse

Democrats are going to face increasing pressure to state whether they still support the three horsemen of their party's destruction. Pelosi, Reid and Obama

The next question to the democrats will be "Do you think Obama is making irrational decisions?"


That just about closes the case.

Posted by: OrangeDogs | November 7, 2010 11:31 PM | Report abuse

McWing:

"LIBERTE! EQUULITE! FRANTERNITE!"

FYI, it's "Egalite", not "Equalite", in the original French.

Posted by: ScottC3 | November 8, 2010 7:13 AM | Report abuse

An interesting look at the political donation activities of NPR's board. Surely not a lot of surprises...almost exclusively lib/Dem down the line.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/251648/politics-npr-boards-matthew-shaffer

Posted by: ScottC3 | November 8, 2010 8:09 AM | Report abuse

Scott

The NPR board is appointed by the President - so it is going to be political people.

I wonder, if Bush, Bush and Reagan appointed board members, were those people more conservative?


Why can't NPR balance itself out - and get some conservative shows

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 8, 2010 8:22 AM | Report abuse

Olbermann's back but at least bernielatham is gone.

Posted by: clawrence12 | November 8, 2010 8:42 AM | Report abuse

All, Morning Roundup posted:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/11/the_morning_plum_126.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | November 8, 2010 8:43 AM | Report abuse

claw:

"..at least Bernie Latham is gone."

I have to be honest and say that I am not glad he is gone. I was being sincere the other day when I said that I would miss him. He was entertaining despite his refusal to engage challenges directly and honestly, and isn't that why we are all here, to entertain ourselves? He provided a lot of fodder which will now be missing.

Posted by: ScottC3 | November 8, 2010 8:56 AM | Report abuse

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