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The Morning Plum

By Greg Sargent

* Has anyone heard from Heath Shuler? The Blue Dog Dem from North Carolina said recently that he would run for minority leader if the only other alternative were Nancy Pelosi. Well, she has now declared -- and no one else has.

Since then, we haven't heard word boo from Shuler about whether he's running. His spokesman isn't returning calls or emails. The Blue Dog that didn't bark?

* No compromise on Bush tax cuts: It isn't going to happen, so the only question is who will blink first.

* Sign of the times on climate change: GOP Rep. James Sensenbrenner, a climate change "skeptic," wants a House committee that was set up to combat global warming to be reconfigured to study how climate change action will hurt the economy.

* The case for Pelosi: Dems need to stick by their own: Jonathan Cohn:

Democrats are more likely than Republicans to abandon, or at least downplay, their principles in the face of political adversity. Rallying around Pelosi, whose fealty to the party's core values is unambiguous, would be a welcome change.

* The Tea Party rubes are in for a rude shock, ctd.: David Frum predicts GOP leaders won't go through with health reform repeal, and instead will puruse a "series of stunts."

* Onward to 2012: But even if Republicans fail at repeal, it can't be stated enough times that the battle over health reform will play a major role in the 2012 presidential campaign, so the argument over reform's political and policy significance needs to be joined now.

* The Olbermann drama will never end: Keith says he didn't even know about the "rule" prohibiting contributions, insists it was "inconsistently applied," alleges that MSNBC suspended him without a heads up, and says he learned about it from news reports.

* Tensions roil Dems as Hoyer edges closer to minority whip slot: A source close to Steny Hoyer says he has the votes to prevail over James Clyburn.

But with progressives lining up behind Clyburn, Dems are dismayed that they are racked by internal tensions that are distracting them from plotting their comback strategy.

* Concession of the day: Subpoena-wielding Darrell Issa, who previously derided Obama as "one of the most corrupt presidents in modern times," is now taking it back, allowing that the president is not "personally corrupt."

* The Tea Party rubes are in for a rude shock, ctd.: Rand Paul drops his Tea Party-friendly campaign pledge to fight earmarks, claiming he'll fight for his state's share, because he's not "crazy."

* Takedown of the day: Jim DeMint wants to repeal Obamacare to save money. But Jim DeMint also thinks Obamacare cuts Medicare. Jon Chait argues that Jim DeMint's ideas don't make a whole lot of sense.

* Walkback to commence in five...four...three... GOP Rep. Spencer Bachus of Alabama says it: "Sarah Palin cost us control of the Senate."

* And get ready for the shocker of the day: A Fox News "report" that incoming Dem Senator Joe Manchin may switch parties turns out to be fiction.

What else is happening?

By Greg Sargent  | November 9, 2010; 8:27 AM ET
Categories:  2010 elections, 2012, Health reform, House Dems, House GOPers, Senate Republicans, Tea Party  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Happy Hour Roundup
Next: On DADT, it's imperial presidency time

Comments

Mornin' Greg and all.

What else is happening?

Here's a couple light hearted video's to start the morning off with.

First is Libertarian vs. Tea Partier

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4BY5ZGurCU

second is Hi, I'm a Tea-Partier

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnUfPQVOqpw

Enjoy.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | November 9, 2010 8:31 AM | Report abuse

Morning, Mike. Thanks for the links.

Posted by: Greg Sargent | November 9, 2010 8:34 AM | Report abuse

Tax Cuts

The tax cuts can be passed after the first of the year - and made retroactive.

At that time, the Republicans will have more votes, so they have little incentive to compromise now.

In addition, the Republicans are happy to see the democrats make mistakes by sticking to their "class warfare" ideas - so it is not in their best interests to end the discussions soon.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 9, 2010 8:36 AM | Report abuse

Also, see that statement from Rubio on how he won't fly the Gadsden flag and his first loyalty is to the Republican party.

Shorter: 'Thanks for the votes suckers! Now, who wants earmarks?'

Posted by: mikefromArlington | November 9, 2010 8:38 AM | Report abuse

Outside Groups Campaign Cash

Axelrod came out yesterday and said that Obama will not stop outside democratic groups from raising and spending undislosed cash.

So, the whole issue over the past month may actually have been a RUSE.

The idea is that Obama by early last month, Obama had already given up on this year's elections - and the whole campaign cash issue was designed to rally his fundraising base for 2012.

So, Obama never cared about the undislosed cash issue - and the whole thing was aimed at motivating democrats over the next two years.

The picture is getting clear now.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 9, 2010 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Greg,

Axelrod has signaled that he is open to Dem outside groups in 2012. He said that these groups will need $500 million to a $1 billion to keep up with Republican outside groups and Axelrod said that Obama is going to be vigoruous in raising money for 2012 for his re-election campaign. I wouldn't be surprised if Obama tries to raise $1 billion for his re-election campaign.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1110/44868.html

Democrats can't be caught with their pants down in 2012 as they were in 2010. The only thing that Axelrod is insisting is that outside Dem groups disclose their money.

Posted by: maritza1 | November 9, 2010 8:43 AM | Report abuse

OK. Now I'm spamming...but here's who I'd like to be minority speaker.

Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

She's smart, quick on her feet, great on T.V. and the loud but not out of control type that would be great in the loyal opposition position.

But like I said the other day, don't do the switch now. Nancy Pelosi deserves more than being dropped right after the election. She passed mountains of legislation in the House and deserves the dignity of leaving on her own terms.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | November 9, 2010 8:45 AM | Report abuse

Greetings and Solicitations!

Just dropping in to Oprah Sargent's Book Club to recommend "The Corporation: The Pathological Pursuit of Profit and Power," by Joel Bakan. Corporations are legally required to pursue their own profit at the expense of everyone and everything else. Bakan's thesis, uncontestable I'd say, is that corporations now control the U.S. government almost completely. Multinational corporations are transforming the United States into Big Business' servant. And Big Business is turning the American people into Useful Idiots, slaves to psychopathic multinational corporations that care nothing about our country or us and that view the American people as no more than economic data points.

The Plutocracy has overreached so The People will rebel. And the People will prevail. We will take our country back from the corporatists. A reckoning is coming.

Have a nice day!

Posted by: wbgonne | November 9, 2010 8:48 AM | Report abuse

Manchin

Manchin is not going to switch parties, but his range of movement is not very large. Manchin is up for re-election in two years. And Manchin promised that he would not be a rubber-stamp for Obama - a pledge that will be watched closely against his votes.

So Manchin will have to demonstrate independence from Obama in some ways over the next two years.

If Manchin does not do that, he creates a serious re-election problem for himself. So watch for Manchin to vote with the Republicans on high-profile votes over the next two years. I would imagine that means the democrats need 7 votes to break a filibuster.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 9, 2010 8:51 AM | Report abuse

BB-
Alas it looks like your brilliant plan to have Indonesia arrest Obama for dodging income tax payments and military service has failed. Alas, the best laid plans....

Maybe you will still luck out and Obama won't be allowed back in the country due to an expired passport or visa issue!

Posted by: ashotinthedark | November 9, 2010 8:58 AM | Report abuse

ashotinthedark at 8:58 AM

Indonesian's version of IRS agents don't seem to be up to their game -


I suppose they don't have the budget that Obama is giving the IRS to enforce his health care plan.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 9, 2010 9:13 AM | Report abuse

Obama cut $500 Billion from Medicare


Here is the Wall Street Journal reporting this cut

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203517304574303903498159292.html


AND here is the Washington Post reporting on the $500 Billion in Medicare cuts in the reconciliation bill last March:


GREG - the byline on this article is Lori Montgomery and Paul Kane
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, March 19, 2010


PLEASE call Lori Montgomery and Paul Kane, staff writers at YOUR PAPER and get this issue settled.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/18/AR2010031801153.html


.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 9, 2010 9:20 AM | Report abuse

BB "Indonesian's version of IRS agents don't seem to be up to their game"

Or they're up to their game and you just have a rather tenuous grasp on how income tax works in a situation of dual citizenship.

Beside, would you really rather have Biden as President?

Posted by: ashotinthedark | November 9, 2010 9:23 AM | Report abuse

maritza1 at 8:43 AM

Democrats can't be caught with their pants down in 2012 as they were in 2010.


_______________________________


Actually, this is another set of Obama deceptions and lies.

Obama and the democrats actually spent MORE money than the Republicans and all their groups in 2010.

Please adjust your figures and statements. I know Obama was creating the impression that there was a flood of cash - of mysterious origins. Actually, Obama and crew KNOWS where the money has been coming from and they are just creating an impression in order to get more people to give money to Obama in 2012.


Did you get suckered?

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 9, 2010 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Gov. Chris Chris strikes again -- at his own state.

The Federal Transit Administration on Monday sent a $271 million bill to NJ Transit for the money it spent on a Hudson River commuter rail tunnel project killed by Governor Christie last month.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/transportation/Feds_send_NJ_271_million_bill_for_work_on_killed_tunnel_project.html

Posted by: wbgonne | November 9, 2010 9:31 AM | Report abuse

ashotinthedark at 9:23 AM


I don't think there is a "dual citizenship" treaty between the US and Indonesia - or at least when Obama turned 18 years old.

So, therefore, Obama's parents had to choose ONE OR THE OTHER NATIONALITY FOR OBAMA, and apparently Obama's step-father listed Obama's nationality as Indonesian, arrived at through adoption.

(perhap that notation is what Obama is hiding in that file in Hawaii - the adoption into Indonesia)


___________________________________


From the standpoint of the best governing of this nation, I would much prefer Biden.

However, from a political point of view, the Republicans are better off going up against Obama - especially with the way Obama has been acting over the past two years.


Biden wouldn't be so bad.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 9, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Perhaps they can also send Christie a personal bill for all those stays at the Four Seasons.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | November 9, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse

ashotinthedark at 9:23 AM


So, you think Obama is a "dual citizen" of the US and Indonesia???


I don't think that is possible.


Again, the public has a right to know what is going on in that file in Hawaii. If Obama was adopted in Indonesia, that may have been recorded in that file. What is wrong with Obama signing a release to allow the American People to know what is in there ?

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 9, 2010 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Rube - "an unsophisticated person from a rural area; hick"


This is an example of bigotry.


Bigotry - "stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own"

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 9, 2010 9:41 AM | Report abuse

"No compromise on Bush tax cuts: It isn't going to happen, so the only question is who will blink first."

Why is that even a question? BHO came out of the gate blinking.

"Making those tax cuts for the upper end permanent is something that the president does not believe is a good idea," said White House press secretary Robert Gibbs, but Obama is "willing to listen to both sides."

Posted by: mark_in_austin | November 9, 2010 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Again, the public has a right to know what is going on in that file in Hawaii. If Obama was adopted in Indonesia, that may have been recorded in that file. What is wrong with Obama signing a release to allow the American People to know what is in there ?

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning
----------------------------------------

I'm sure the explanation for this has been provided to you on several occasions. I don't much feel like banging my head against a wall this morning.

Posted by: ashotinthedark | November 9, 2010 9:48 AM | Report abuse

New York Times today on what the Indonesians used to call Obama:

Barry, who was chubby, was referred to as the “boy who runs like a duck,”

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 9, 2010 10:01 AM | Report abuse

ashotinthedark:

The CORRECT answer is that there is nothing wrong with Obama signing a release to allow the American People to know what is in his Hawaii "vital records" file. Democrats, of course, refuse to accept that is the correct answer.

Posted by: JakeD2 | November 9, 2010 10:05 AM | Report abuse

ashotinthedark at 9:48 AM

I'm sure the explanation for this has been provided to you on several occasions.


_________________________________

Actually it HAS NOT.

And you are lying about this.

My statement focused on why Obama refuses to sign a release so everyone can know what is in the file in Hawaii.

Obama promised transparency in his campaign, and if he doesn't want to follow through on his pledges, Obama should give back the votes and resign.


________________________________


By the way, the certificate provided by Obama is the SAME document given to childre who are born OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY.

So that document PROVES NOTHING.


If you state otherwise, you are LYING.


.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 9, 2010 10:05 AM | Report abuse

BTW: if Sarah LOUISE Palin cost the GOP control of the Senate, then Barack HUSSEIN Obama cost the Dems control of the House.

Did anyone see Stephen Colbert's "live" election coverage where he proved that Obama got ZERO percent of the vote?! LOL!!!

Posted by: JakeD2 | November 9, 2010 10:08 AM | Report abuse

BeautifulBeginning:

Dems would refuse to accept that 2+2 = 4 if that would help their partisan cause, all the while crowing about being the "reality-based" crowd ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | November 9, 2010 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Jake

The problem the democrats have with Obama signing the release - is that the democrats refuse to even answer the question.

The release - SIGN IT.

It takes 10 seconds.


The democrats - NONE of them have the proper documents to make ANY statement on the subject.

So they are LYING when they say they KNOW what the true is. They don't have any documentation. They have nothing. They pretend they have a document that is completely worthless.


The democrats claim that document proves WHERE Obama was born, but it doesn't.

It is almost like claiming a baseball card proves that there are martians living on the moon.


.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 9, 2010 10:14 AM | Report abuse

ashotinthedark at 9:48 AM

You have no proof to back up anything you are saying.

There is nothing wrong with requesting further information - especially when things are in doubt.


Obama MUST BE HIDING SOMETHING. There can be no other explanation for Obama's failure to sign the release.

I refuse to allow you to push a document like a drug dealer which does NOT prove what you are claiming it does.


It is just another Obama deception. Someday I hope the truth comes out - and everyone involved is prosecuted.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 9, 2010 10:19 AM | Report abuse

I saw Franc Faber on CNBC. He says the people of China, Brazil, Vietnam and so on need to write a thank you note to the Fed and the people of the United States for subsidizing their economic development.

He cited trade imbalances as the driver of boom bust cycles in general and bubbles in particular. It was competitive devaluations (trade wars) derived from trade imbalances that made WWI seem so inevitable at the time.

More recently, we were supposed to have won the cold war with mercantilism, liberal capitalism and free trade. Future wars were going to be about cultural values, the clash of civilizations, an idea key to the Bush "axis of evil" meme and, "they hate us for our freedom."

Well the cold war is not over, the Chinese were just getting started. There is no clash of civilizations, just crony capitalism and the endless cycle of consumption and production imbalances, same as before.

Posted by: shrink2 | November 9, 2010 10:20 AM | Report abuse

To be fair, ashotinthedark has not explicitly claimed that the "Certification of Live Birth" proves WHERE Obama was born (although he / she has implicitly accepted that argument as true).

Posted by: JakeD2 | November 9, 2010 10:23 AM | Report abuse

Scrink

You are correct

Clinton's economic policies are a complete joke.

Obama isn't doing much better


The Free Trade deals have to go

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 9, 2010 10:24 AM | Report abuse

OK Jake, you are right


ashotinthedark - WHAT did you mean at 9:48 AM when you said:

"I'm sure the explanation for this has been provided to you on several occasions. "


Would you please be more specific??? Because we would like to be CLEAR about what the documents prove and what they DO NOT PROVE.


.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 9, 2010 10:26 AM | Report abuse

So, the Republicans want to add to the Federal deficit by passing tax cuts for the rich and add another 750 billion to it?

Well, Charles Wallace writes, in Ten Market Bubbles that could soon Burst (http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/investing/10-market-bubbles-that-could-soon-burst/19708093/), ..."10. U.S. government debt. "When this bubble pops you're out of bubbles -- nothing is too big to fail any more," says Wiedemer. The debt bubble is growing very rapidly and will continue to grow, he says. Basically, there's no way the U.S. government can ever pay back the $13.7 trillion it currently owes (mainly to foreigners), and eventually they will stop buying. The bubble pops when the government has trouble selling its debt -- just like Ireland and Greece are experiencing at the moment. Instead of borrowing money, the government starts printing money, which is what's happening now. The Fed's balance sheet has gone from $800 billion in 2008 to $2.2 trillion, and the central bank just announced it was printing another $600 billion. Says Wiedemer: "The medicine starts to become poison."

Posted by: dozas | November 9, 2010 10:37 AM | Report abuse

BeautifulBeginning:

Check out this other infamous "Certificate of Hawaiian Birth":

http://www.theobamafile.com/_images/SunYatSen.jpg

Posted by: JakeD2 | November 9, 2010 10:44 AM | Report abuse

I am REALLY looking forward to ANY climate change or green policy investigation by the House.

-Biden to roll out home energy efficiency program-

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/11/09/103397/biden-to-roll-out-home-energy.html

-Renewable energy jobs grow by 22% in N.C.-

North Carolina has 22 percent more jobs in renewable energy and energy efficiency than last year, the N.C. Sustainable Energy Association said Thursday in an annual report.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/10/15/102083/renewable-energy-jobs-grow-by.html

-Clean energy manufacturing jobs growing in California, study finds-

Despite the decline in manufacturing employment in California, one key industrial sector is seeing robust job growth: the green economy.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/10/07/101759/clean-energy-manufacturing-jobs.html

Why do Republicans hate job growth, new domestic growth industries, energy efficiency and saving money???

Posted by: Ethan2010 | November 9, 2010 10:46 AM | Report abuse

This same document could have been procured via fraud by Obama's mother or grandparent (no vast left-wing conspiracy needed):

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/images/2008-06-12_obama_birth_certificate.jpg

Posted by: JakeD2 | November 9, 2010 10:50 AM | Report abuse

All, good Adam Serwer post on DADT and Obama:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/11/on_dadt_its_imperial_presidenc.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | November 9, 2010 10:51 AM | Report abuse

@pwire:

-Pollsters Warn of Polls that Impact Campaigns-

A bi-partisan group of campaign pollsters issued an open letter blasting the "sometimes uncritical media coverage" of the "proliferation" of public pre-election polls that fail to disclose basic information about how they are conducted and that "have the capacity to shape media and donor reactions to election contests," Mark Blumenthal reports.

First Read: "These pollsters zeroed in on -- correctly -- the BIGGER problem with public polling these days: the narrative-setting polls released (mostly by robo-pollsters) very early on in campaigns. Nobody can ever "check" the accuracy of these polls; pollsters only get graded toward the end of the campaign when, frankly, many of them can weight their way to semi-accuracy. The bottom line: The flooding the zone aspect of these dial-a-pollsters has ruined the study of public opinion and made pollsters who spend the money to do it right look obsolete. At NBC/MSNBC, we advise all our platforms against using many of these unreliable pollsters. What the industry needs is an agreed-upon grading system that ALL major media would follow."

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2010/11/09/pollsters_warn_of_polls_that_impact_campaigns.html

More links there...

It's actually nice to see some reflection on biased forces that artificially massage public opinion to their liking rather than using polls to gauge public sentiment.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | November 9, 2010 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Greg Sargent:

NOW, the "Imperial Presidency" is a good thing?! LOL!!!

Posted by: JakeD2 | November 9, 2010 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Ethan, it seems that you understand so little about those who disagree with your particular point of view. If you truly enjoy arguing and would like to win, a primer in how your opponents think would stand you in good stead. Your question is simply ignorance or bigotry or some heady brew based on both.

and dozas simply spouts the party line. Just what America needs: another ignorant, bigoted party aparatchik. Ho frickin hum.

Just for the record, Republicans want spending cuts. Good solid reductions in the size of government. We have to find a way for Uncle to live on the amount we're giving him now. No more money from productive people to federally funded drones. What is it about waste that you seem so hell-bent to enshrine?

Here's a really simple idea that will save us some money: make federal employees who travel on the job fly coach. Make it mandatory. Just like a real business that has to survive on its net revenue. See? we have to bring the government to heel.

I know Mr Sargent despises us Rubes, and that's his problem. Imagine this, ordinary hard working Americans taking on the political elite and their fops in the press and bringing them under control. I can well imagine the tearing of hair and gnashing of teeth that goes on in the Sargent household these days.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | November 9, 2010 11:11 AM | Report abuse

Jake and BB-

My point is that these issues have been debated ad nauseum and based on your comments it appears highly likely that you have heard the various explanations. I'm unlikely to provide any new insight to the issue and am extremely hesitant to bang my head against the wall with you two.

Having said that, as Jake just illustrated, were Obama to release the Certificate of Live birth to the public (have you not seen it?) it would be met with statements that it could have been fraudulently obtained. It seems highly unlikely that release (again have you not seen it?) of the actual documents would satiate the very few skeptics which remain.

Posted by: ashotinthedark | November 9, 2010 11:13 AM | Report abuse

I have NOT seen the Certificate of Live birth, and neither have you. What I have stated (ad nauseum) is that I won't ask another question about it if Obama simply consented to the release of original "vital records" that Hawaii state officials say they still have. Simple question: if he has nothing to hide, why doesn't he do that?

There's also been no LEGITIMATE debate, since your side is completely unwilling to, you know, actually debate.

Posted by: JakeD2 | November 9, 2010 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Jake-
http://msgboard.snopes.com/politics/graphics/birth.jpg

What are you saying that is?

Posted by: ashotinthedark | November 9, 2010 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Ethan, here's some more info on what is happening in CA. In the link is another link to the full report of the Index. This is how CA will claw it's way out of the recession. We're also hoping to see some progress on the high speed rail between SF and LA, it's looking like the contract will go to a CA firm, so even better for jobs and the future. We're cutting everything else out here and it looks like tuition will go up again but we managed to come up with more money this year than last for research. Too late for my daughter, she's already gone to CO, but great for other scientists.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Research included in this 2010 California Green Innovation Index details:

* California’s global leadership in green innovation continues to grow, attracting billions in investment dollars.
* California’s green manufacturing jobs are growing while conventional manufacturing jobs are in decline.
* California’s economy has profited from efforts to improve energy efficiency and reduce its dependence on carbon.
* Californians are getting out of their cars more to use public transportation, or using more alternative fuels when driving.

This year’s Index includes two special features. The first, “The Changing Business Climate in California: Impacts & New Opportunities” examines myths about California’s business climate and found contrary to conventional wisdom, the facts are:

* Fact One: Electricity bills are lower in California.
* Fact Two: California manufacturers spend a smaller percentage of total operating costs on electricity.
* Fact Three: California’s electricity productivity in manufacturing is outpacing the rest of the nation.
* Fact Four: More businesses are starting up in California than are leaving or closing.


http://www.next10.org/next10/publications/greenInnovation10.html

Posted by: lmsinca | November 9, 2010 11:30 AM | Report abuse

ashotinthedark:

That's a CertificaTION of Live Birth (I linked to it at 10:50 AM), very different from the original BIRTH CERTIFICATE signed by the attending physician, regardless of what Snopes or talkingpointsmemo.com says.

Posted by: JakeD2 | November 9, 2010 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Nice lmsinca.

"""
* Fact One: Electricity bills are lower in California.
* Fact Two: California manufacturers spend a smaller percentage of total operating costs on electricity.
* Fact Three: California’s electricity productivity in manufacturing is outpacing the rest of the nation.
* Fact Four: More businesses are starting up in California than are leaving or closing.
"""

This is precisely why I say to the GOP re: climate change and green policy, bring it on!

Posted by: Ethan2010 | November 9, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

I've now answered all of your questions to me. This will be the last time I ask you my question (I promise): if he has nothing to hide, why doesn't Obama simply consent to the release of his original "vital records" that Hawaii state officials say they still have?

Posted by: JakeD2 | November 9, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

@JakeD2

Because some unthinking individuals would say that was a "fake" also, regardless of what all evidence shows otherwise.

Posted by: DinOH | November 9, 2010 11:47 AM | Report abuse

I've now answered all of your questions to me. This will be the last time I ask you my question (I promise): if he has nothing to hide, why doesn't Obama simply consent to the release of his original "vital records" that Hawaii state officials say they still have?

-----------------------------------

Because he's released sufficient documentation to prove where he was born. That you have arbitrarily decided a birth certificate is the only sufficient proof is not his problem.

Posted by: ashotinthedark | November 9, 2010 11:51 AM | Report abuse

ashotinthedark at 11:13 AM

Hiding documents increases suspicion

Your thoughts make no sense.


.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 9, 2010 11:51 AM | Report abuse

ashotinthedark at 11:13 AM

I supposed repeating this would help you to understand.

That certificate is the SAME document given to babies born OUTSIDE the country.

It does NOT prove that Obama was born in the country.


The underlying documents need to be released.


Let me be Clear: the Question to you is WHY won't Obama simply sign the release and allow people to see the contents of the file in Hawaii ???

If Obama has nothing to hide, there is nothing to hide, right?


THAT IS THE QUESTION TO YOU, none other

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 9, 2010 11:56 AM | Report abuse

ashotinthedark 11:51 AM

Pretty arrogant response there especially when you are not answering the question

The document proves about as much as a baseball card would.


The democratic websites which claim to "fact-check" or "verify" - they do not disclose who funds them.

Posted by: BeautifulBeginning | November 9, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Where did I claim the Certificate of Live Birth proves where Obama was born? I simply stated it was proof, along with several other pieces of evidence, of where Obama was born. When you take that information in combination with the complete absence of proof of birth elsewhere, the answer seems pretty clear.

Officials from the State of Hawaii have seen the file, why is that insufficient for you?

Posted by: ashotinthedark | November 9, 2010 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Maybe we are Balkanizing,over to the left of the Sierra (farther North, the Cascades, we are Bluer than ever, to the East, the Red just got deeper.

We'll see whether the Blue people make jobs for themselves faster than the Red people do...

Posted by: shrink2 | November 9, 2010 12:05 PM | Report abuse

"... take that information in combination with the complete absence of proof of birth elsewhere ..."

See, that's where you are wrong. Obama's paternal grandmother has stated that she was present IN KENYA when little Barry was born. There's also other "proof" that he was born in Kenya. That's why I want to see the certificate signed by an attending physician. Officials from the State of Hawaii who have claimed to have seen the file have LIED about other specifics, so you'll excuse me if I want to see for myself.

Posted by: JakeD2 | November 9, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

shot - It isn't worth it. I think Jake's more yanking people's chains as he has had this conversation dozens of times and has yet to convince anyone.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | November 9, 2010 12:20 PM | Report abuse

The dark ones love to create an atmosphere of fear, as they cannot thrive or survive long in an atmosphere of love.

America, it is time We take our country back from the Money Changers -- time to get off the "yellow-brick road" and realize that every time corporations and smaller businesses get tax breaks --, guess where the taxes rise? Locally and at state levels. The cold-hearted fact is that Everyday, average Americans shoulder the tax burden in this country, due to tax loopholes, tax cuts and tax breaks for wealthy Americans and Corporations who do not need it. Why in the world would Wealthy Americans need more tax breaks when they pay very little taxes anyway, they need to pay their fair share and take the burden off those who can least afford it. These tax-cuts will cost the country $700 Billion, twice the cost of the Healthcare bill. Ironically, GOP hate to extend unemployment benefits to Americans who desperately need them, while violently fighting to extend tax cuts for the wealthy, who do not need them.

GOP mantra cut, cut, cut for the middleclass and poor and extend to military and wealthy. To create jobs, one must invest in America, her infa-structure, technology and innovations, but Party of No only wants to invest in the rich and well connected.

Think about it, if we had Universal Healthhcare Reform, premiums would be a LOT LESS for everyone -- but that would be too much like doing the right thing -- such as being our Brothers' keeper and treating your neighbor as you would want to be treated yourself!

Posted by: wdsoulplane | November 9, 2010 12:23 PM | Report abuse

FairlingtonBlade:

How do you know I haven't convinced a lurker? I'm pretty sure that I convinced "BeautifulBeginning" too (but now he's been banned : (

For the record, I only bring up "birther crap" when our gracious host or someone else refers to Obama as "President".

Posted by: JakeD2 | November 9, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

I also am not aware that anything has ever before deemed "Off Topic" here, especially when Mr. Sargent asks: "What else is happening?"

Posted by: JakeD2 | November 9, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

this is a disagreement with the "fact" that California energy costs are lower than the national average:

http://www.sbecouncil.org/uploads/SBEC%20-%20EnergyIndx2010.pdf
Only six states, according to this study, had energy costs higher than those in California. the index is based on data from the AAA's gas price survey and the US energy information bureau (let's cut that bureau today!)


Posted by: skipsailing28 | November 9, 2010 12:52 PM | Report abuse

this disagrees with the "fact" that more california businesses are starting than are leaving:
http://www.laedc.org/sclc/documents/Global_102510_CARB.pdf

if it were actually true that new business were thick on the ground in CA, I doubt they would be quite as concerned for the future.

The environmentalists and the public sector unions are going to destroy California. I think that NY will fall to the unions alone. I would oppose any Federal effort to bail out either state when they ultimately fail.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | November 9, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

skip, you can either read the report or not, it's up to you. I'll say it again there's nowhere I'd rather be right now than CA. Our financial problems relate explicitly to past bubbles, including the recent housing bubble. And BTW, our public employees have taken hit after hit this time and things will be different going forward. We've also been weeding out a lot of corruption. Don't worry we won't be coming to you for money any more than any other state will. It's always been the red states that receive more in federal spending than they pay in tax dollars not the blue states.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"While electricity rates are higher in California, because of the
state’s high efficiency standards for buildings and appliances
and utility energy efficiency programs, average electricity
bills are actually lower than in most other states. In addition,
California’s electricity bills have increased less since 1990
than most states.
California maintains average monthly residential electricity
bills that are lower than 33 states, even while rates are higher
than 43 states. Residential electricity bills in California are 14
percent lower than the rest of the nation. Since 1990, average
monthly residential electricity bills have remained steady."

http://www.next10.org/next10/pdf/GII/Next10_GII_2010.pdf

Posted by: lmsinca | November 9, 2010 1:54 PM | Report abuse

The environmental issue looms large. So does unfunded pension liability. Heck, the liability for unemployement is unfunded and in the billions. good luck with that. I took my family out of CA more than a decade ago when the "peace dividend" devastated the So Cal economy and I've never looked back.

Living in a state where happy meals are banned and "food justice" is a seriously considered concept makes little sense to me.

but hey, here's the guy who founded next 10, being quoted in the sacramento bee:
""I don't want to oversell the core green economy," said F. Noel Perry, a venture capitalist who founded the nonprofit research group Next 10, which has extensively studied the alternative energy industry. "Unemployment is over 12 percent. We've seen the construction industry crater. There are very few areas of industrial growth in California. Green jobs are not going to fill that vacuum today."

Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2010/10/13/3103257/experts-green-jobs-not-enough.html#ixzz14omLA8qa

Perry seems like a rent seeker to me. As long as these mythical green jobs require government subsidy there will be a plethora of wannabe nipple suckers out there touting their own particular brand of next generation snake oil.

And I disagree with your rosy projection about not asking for federal funds:
"A recent study by the California Employment Development Department found that California pays $40 million a day to fund unemployment benefits. California owes the federal government over $8.6 billion.

Experts forecast the state’s total unemployment debt to reach $10.3 billion by the end of this year and expect it to grow to $13.4 billion and $16 billion in 2011 and 2012, respectively.

Officials admitted that California’s unemployment insurance program is insolvent, adding that over the last three years, the state saw its jobless benefits payments grow by 122 percent...
...Lawmakers have been working feverishly to identify options to increase the tax burden on employers. The proposed increase will require a two-thirds approval vote from both the State Assembly and Senate.

Many are skeptical that lawmakers will be able to identify a solution in time. If California does not take the appropriate measures by September 2011, the state will be required to pay the federal government $362 million in interest payments.


since California borrowed the money from the Feds, if they can't pay it back, then what?

Posted by: skipsailing28 | November 9, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

skip

AFAIC CA and every other state in the Union can thank the banks and wall street for those unemployment benefit deficits. We keep coming up with more and more cuts in services, public employee wages, and education to keep afloat. We're in worse shape than some states and better than others but almost every state owe the feds for unemployment insurance loans at this point.

And no one said the green economy is going to turn things around lickety split, but it's about the only enterprise on the horizon with some growth potential. We'll take it.

Posted by: lmsinca | November 9, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

How about a pool on whether Joke will be alive when Obama leaves office in 2017?

Posted by: Observer691 | November 9, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

One more thing skip. CA has the largest economy in the country, with the most employable population. In 2000 unemployment here was only 4.9%, in 2004 it was 6.2%, then in 2008 when the housing bubble burst we were at 7.2%, now over 12%. We were also ground zero in the sub-prime market and revenues began to seriously decline in 2007, that's when we personally began to make some financial changes to both our personal and business interests. The only way out is end the foreclosure process, which thanks to the banks keeps dragging on, and invest in technology of the future. But believe me we've been doing austerity along the way as well, just like everyone else.

Posted by: lmsinca | November 9, 2010 4:13 PM | Report abuse

It's funny so many people here have mentioned the Happy Meal ban in SF. What, are you guys worried it's contagious or something? My city council passed a really badly worded statement of support for the Arizona "papers please" law, I'd be more worried about that than Happy Meals personally, but neither one has much affect on me one way or another.

Posted by: lmsinca | November 9, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Here's my take on the happy meal ban:

It is a clear over stepping of the limits of government interference in our lives. When the government arrogates unto itself the right to tell us what foodstuffs we may and may not sell we are heading for despotism. It is just that simple. The prospect should scare the h word out of any liberty loving person in this country.

it is arrogant, it is antiethical to freedom, we ignore this at our peril.
We'll see how the "austerity" thing works out under Mr Brown's leadership. As I said I left California when the state simply became to overbearing.

If you go here:http://www.forbes.com/2010/06/04/migration-moving-wealthy-interactive-counties-map.html?preload=39099

You will see that there is a net out migration from California. And this has been going on for quite a while. Productive people leave. gummint employees and other tax recievers stay behind. More and more must be extracted from fewer and fewer. It is a recipe for disaster. We face the same problem in Ohio. We're going to lose two house seats I've heard. That should be embarassing to the political class here but it isn't. Corruption will do that to ya I guess.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | November 9, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

That's a cool interactive map but it doesn't support your theory of mass exodus of productive people. I know we get some businesses that leave for greener polluting pastures, but that's why we're busy re-making ourselves.

We're business owners and work with plenty of other business owners here and things aren't any worse here than anywhere else as far as taxes go. We had really high workeman's comp rates about 6 or 7 years ago and after tons of complaint and grassroots organization by businesses they lowered them. Health care costs are a problem but that's everywhere.

The economy just generally sucks almost everywhere but I'm truly optimistic about CA. And the happy meal thing was just a local issue, I sort of doubt it will catch on. We get all sorts of wacky issues here on the ballots not unlike Oklahoma but in the opposite direction, LOL.

Posted by: lmsinca | November 9, 2010 5:20 PM | Report abuse

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