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Posted at 11:40 AM ET, 01/18/2011

Bush doesn't deserve credit for Tunisia

By Adam Serwer

The ultimate prospects for democracy in Tunisia are still very uncertain. While the former head of the secular, autocratic government, Zine al-Abidine Ben Ali, has fled the country in the face of a popular uprising, efforts to form a government and prepare for elections are facing significant obstacles.

Nevertheless, here in the U.S., The Post's Jennifer Rubin is already field testing the narrative that President George W. Bush's invasion of Iraq somehow led to the uprising in Tunisia:

Recall when President George W. Bush talked about democracy taking hold in Iraq and then the region? Now Bush's vision seems very prescient.

Rubin doesn't even attempt to prove causation -- eight years ago, the U.S. invaded Iraq, and last week there was an uprising in Tunisia. Ergo Bush deserves the credit. This is deeply paternalistic -- in Rubin's version of history, the Tunisians who faced down the security forces of an autocratic regime are practically bit players in their own political upheaval. 

The point is not to make an actual argument, but to inject a political narrative that will retroactively vindicate the decision to go to war in Iraq, as though the American people would ever forget that the Bush administration justified that decision by manufacturing an imminent danger in the form of WMD that were never found.

"Democracy in the Muslim World" was not the primary reason given for invading Iraq, and even as a retroactive justification it remains weak. As Matt Duss pointed out last year, the RAND Corporation did a study concluding that "Iraq's instability has become a convenient scarecrow neighboring regimes can use to delay political reform by asserting that democratization inevitably leads to insecurity." But as Donald Rumsfeld might say, the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, so Rubin presses on:

One question that deserves further consideration: How much did the emergence of a democratic Iraq have to do with this popular revolt in Tunisia? For now, the current administration had better get on the right side of history.

Perhaps the most bizarre of Republican foreign policy instincts is the belief that the President of the United States can force the foreign policy outcomes he desires through sheer force of will. This is what Matthew Yglesias has dubbed the "The Green Lantern Theory of Geopolitics."

It's painfully simplistic, but simplicity often makes for attractive political narratives. The one being set up here is simple: If Tunisia succeeds in transitioning peacefully to a democratic state, the credit is due entirely to Bush for invading Iraq. If it does not, it is because Obama failed to "get on the right side of history." Like the invasion of Iraq itself, whatever evidence presents itself to support the preferred narrative, no matter how weak -- or in this case, nonexistent -- will be marshaled in its defense. 

By Adam Serwer  | January 18, 2011; 11:40 AM ET
Categories:  Foreign policy and national security, Political media  
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Next: An eloquent case for filibuster reform

Comments

Greg, why haven't you banned caothien9?

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 18, 2011 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Adam

Don't hate the PLAYA, hate the game.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 18, 2011 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Bush only gets BOGUS BLAME

Never, ever try to even attempt to give him credit for anything.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 18, 2011 12:01 PM | Report abuse

[Adam bedwet: "Bush administration justified that decision by manufacturing an imminent danger in the form of WMD that were never found."]

Enough whining about WMD. How about the 22 legitimate casus belli cited by Congress against Saddam: Saddam did try to kill a former American president; the U.N. embargo was violated (as were its inspection protocols); the 1991 accords were ignored; the genocide of brave Kurds did happen; suicide bombers were being given bounties; terrorists (including those involved into the 1993 World Trade Center bombing) were given sanctuary by Saddam; and on and on.
http://www.husseinandterror.com/

Does Adam prefer the rape rooms of Qusay and Uday to the elected government of our new Iraqi allies?

But there’s no need to remind readers. Patriotic Americans are well aware that Leftists supported Saddam and al-Qaeda. BEHOLD! The Leftist-Fascist Hall of Shame @
http://www.zombietime.com/hall_of_shame/

Don’t be a Bush-hating Saddam-sobber your whole life, Adam.

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | January 18, 2011 12:01 PM | Report abuse

I don't think the narrative is quite as crazy as Greg does, but one country does not a row of dominoes make. And is Tunisia a functioning democracy yet? Is Iraq, really?

Best not to count your chickens before they hatch.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | January 18, 2011 12:02 PM | Report abuse

@clawrence: "Greg, why haven't you banned caothien9?"

Because he hasn't. And it's his blog, and he makes the rules, and he decides.

Does that answer your question?

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | January 18, 2011 12:04 PM | Report abuse

I wonder if Jennifer Rubin knows world geography at all ... Tunisia is in North Africa.

I'm all for opining but how about we adhere to the standard that we have to at least be intellectually honest?

Sounds to me like Rubin ran out of ideas and had a deadline fast approaching ...

Posted by: dcnc71 | January 18, 2011 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Obama certainly doesn't deserve any credit for anything in Tunisia.

I wonder if Obama can find Tunisia on a map.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 18, 2011 12:08 PM | Report abuse

It is "painfully simplistic" when Leftists fling "WMD!" like some kind of POKEMON! totem.

It is refreshing to find history vindicating the Bush doctrine... even as Obama emulates it in Afghanistan.

So why isn’t billionaire progressive George Soros financing any unhinged Leftist rent-a-mob rallies against ObaMao's summary execution of (un-Mirandized!) civilians by Reaper drone airstrikes in Pakistan?

Afterall, Obama’s targeting tactics are clearly more "violent" than Bush’s post-9/11 moistening of KSM, et.al.

Obama’s policy to use Reaper drones to target (un-Mirandized!) civilians has increased markedly without a peep. Get busy, Leftists.

Rev. Wright should burn a Koran every day until Obama either releases his birth certificate or ends his Reaper drone madness.

Rage against the machine, Adam!

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | January 18, 2011 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Good post Adam especially these points:

"Rubin doesn't even attempt to prove causation -- eight years ago, the U.S. invaded Iraq, and last week there was an uprising in Tunisia. Ergo Bush deserves the credit. "

You can make a credible argument about Iraq influencing the Cedar Revolution in Lebanon and also Libya's decision to come clean on it's WMD program, but Tunisia is a big stretch.

""Democracy in the Muslim World" was not the primary reason given for invading Iraq, and even as a retroactive justification it remains weak."

Dead on. However,

"retroactively vindicate the decision to go to war in Iraq, as though the American people would ever forget that the Bush administration justified that decision by manufacturing an imminent danger in the form of WMD that were never found."

The whole "imminent danger" is a retroactive attack on the original decision that isn't based on the actual argument made at the time. Recall that the whole reason Bush's Preemption Doctrine was so radical was that they were justifying this on the grounds of dealing with "grave and gathering" threats before they became "imminent dangers", not that Iraq was in fact an "imminent danger" in 2003.

"We know that Saddam Hussein pursued weapons of mass murder even when inspectors were in the country. Are we to assume that he stopped when they left? The history, the logic and the facts lead to one conclusion. Saddam Hussein's regime is a grave and gathering danger. To suggest otherwise is to hope against the evidence. To assume this regime's good faith is to bet the lives of millions and the peace of the world in a reckless gamble. And this is a risk we must not take."

George W. Bush Speech to the U.N on September 12, 2002

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/12/national/main521781.shtml

See also Tony Blair's speech from March 18th, 2003.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2003/mar/18/foreignpolicy.iraq1

Posted by: jnc4p | January 18, 2011 12:11 PM | Report abuse

No, Kevin, that does not answer my question.

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 18, 2011 12:18 PM | Report abuse

The clear explanation for Rubin's piece is that her page hits are dreadful and dropping. Saying something of spectacular partisan absurdity is a good way to lure attention. Serwer bit hard or he was told to act like he did.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 18, 2011 12:23 PM | Report abuse

his is starting to get very interesting.

From Politicalwire.com

"Gingrich Says Palin Needs to "Be More Careful"
In an interview with ABC News, Newt Gingrich said Sarah Palin's recent statements indicate she needs to "be more careful and think through what she's saying and how she's saying it."

Said Gingrich: "There's no question that she has become more controversial."

.............................

Keep in mind that this is the same Newt Gingrich who who wrote in his book, just last year:

“To Save America: Stopping Obama’s Secular-Socialist Machine,”

"Obama’s policy agenda is as "great a threat to America as Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union," wrote the former Republican Speaker of the House."

So you can see where Newt real has the moral high ground, when it comes to lecturing others on engaging in demagoguery.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 18, 2011 12:26 PM | Report abuse

I am with Ms. Rubin on this, because after all. President Reagan's liberation of Grenada is what led to the overthrow of the Castro regime in Cuba, right.

What's that you say; the Castro Regime is still in power? Are you sure? How the hell could that be. Didn't the people of Cuba hear about President Reagan's liberation of Grenada, and President George
W. Bush's liberation of Iraq.

Looks like the Bush triggered revolutions in Ukraine and Lebanon did not last long enough to really count for a damn thing.

Ms. Rubin; tell us why that is.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 18, 2011 12:34 PM | Report abuse

This is a good post, Adam. I wonder if we'll see the usual Republican pattern with other commenters on the right echoing Rubin on this until what is essentially a ridiculous and baseless notion worms its way into the conventional wisdom.

Posted by: AllButCertain | January 18, 2011 12:37 PM | Report abuse

The people of the Irish Republic owe their Independance to President George W. Bush, because if he had not overthrown Saddam Hussein in Iraq, the Irish people would never have rebelled against English rule, back in 1916-21.

I guess George W. Bush must have also inspired The Iranian Revolution that ousted the Shah.


We all know that people have never protested against dictatorial rule, until President George W. Bush came along, and inspired them to do so.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 18, 2011 12:40 PM | Report abuse

What a steaming pile of BS...

"The administration is hoping that the review, with its emphasis on eliminating regulations that limit the competitiveness of U.S. businesses, is another step toward repairing Obama's relationship with the private sector. Corporate America is sitting on $2 trillion in assets, but has been reluctant to make investments and hire more people, in part because of uncertainty over government regulations and tax policies. Obama has acknowledged that he needed to better manage his relationship with the private sector." AP

Posted by: shrink2 | January 18, 2011 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Sean Hannity;

The self-appointed decider of who deserves to be call "A Great American"

On Iraq and Kuwait;

First Sean was all for ousting Iraq from Kuwait.

Then Sean was for getting rid of Saddam, because his invasion of Kuwait showed that he was a threat to his neighbors.

Now Sean says; after Saddam is dead, America should invade Kuwait and take it's Oil. You know just like that evil Saddam guy did and would do.

Isn't Sean Hannity A Great Big Idiotic American?

Posted by: Liam-still | January 18, 2011 12:47 PM | Report abuse

I called Adam "Greg" again. Something to do with seeing that big picture of Greg up at the top of every post. ;)

Apologies for the confusion.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | January 18, 2011 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Having managed a variety of large, labor intensive operations in my career I'm a huge fan of productivity. Therefore, I have to extend kudos to Mr Serwer.

I don't know what kind of income stream he generates for himself from these guest posts here but it is clear at this point that he engages in very little effort to earn it.

the secret to Mr Serwer's easy money is the fact that in Jennifer Rubin he's found his own personal bete noir. How fortunate for him.

Now when the time comes to write a post for the plum line Mr Serwer need only peruse what Ms Rubin has already written and assemble a number of trite, tired liberal cliches in response.

The pavlov's dogs that inhabit the comments section here lap it up and the number of site clicks for Mr Sargent rises.

Again, based on my experience I believe that there are a number of ways that this process could be changed to result in even greater productivity. Why not share some of that easy money with Ms Rubin in exchange for her agreement to write more about Sarah Palin? That way the pavlovian response on the comment thread will be even deeper in involuntarily exuded saliva and the dials and guages being watched by the WaPo suits will move even further in the direction of positive cash flow.

yeah, that's the ticket.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | January 18, 2011 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Kevin,

Not to worry. Claw Yammer keeps calling him Greg, and asking him why he hasn't banned Cao.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 18, 2011 12:51 PM | Report abuse


Bush only gets BOGUS BLAME

Never, ever try to even attempt to give him credit for anything.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 18, 2011 12:55 PM | Report abuse

All, Tom Harkin's particularly eloquent case for filibuster reform:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/01/an_eloquent_case_for_filibuste_1.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | January 18, 2011 12:58 PM | Report abuse

skipsailing28 @ 12:51 PM

Interesting post. Do you have any factual rebuttals to Mr. Sewer's post? Ad hominen attacks are always fun for the person who posts them (see KaddafiDelendaEst), but they don't do much to advance your argument.

Just saying.

Posted by: wiccan | January 18, 2011 1:00 PM | Report abuse

it is easy to tell when a liberal has no valid retort: they will not hesitate to go personal. Here's a perfect example:
===================
Keep in mind that this is the same Newt Gingrich who who wrote in his book, just last year:

“To Save America: Stopping Obama’s Secular-Socialist Machine,”

"Obama’s policy agenda is as "great a threat to America as Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union," wrote the former Republican Speaker of the House."

So you can see where Newt real has the moral high ground, when it comes to lecturing others on engaging in demagoguery.

==============

Note how Liam simply cannot refute the actual position taken by Mr Gingrich. He cannot explain to anyone why he believes that Mr Gingrich is simply wrong.

Oh no, that's not how liberals work. First and foremost liberals can be counted for a nasty, emotion based, personal attack. Why bother trying to, you know, debate what Mr Gingrich says? It is far more fun to sling mud.

don't believe me? Ask Joe the Plumber

Posted by: skipsailing28 | January 18, 2011 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Ms. Rubin needs to stop taking dictation, with her listening ear placed up against her Arse.

The people of Iraq did not revolt and over throw Saddam.

The people of Tunisia may have done just that, though it may be too soon to claim a lasting victory for them. We will have to wait and see how it plays out.

Scores of Iraqi police were blown up today, by a suicide bomber. Thank you George W. Bush for being such and inspiration to that guy. According to Ms. Rubin, some people in Tunisia will soon start doing the same thing, and they owe it all to your example with your invasion of Iraq.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 18, 2011 1:07 PM | Report abuse

So Skippy agrees with Newt, that Obama is worse than the Nazis and The Soviet Union.


Good to know. I guess we all know now why Skippy(according to him) is receiving daily mental therapy.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 18, 2011 1:11 PM | Report abuse

And I'd like to thank Liam for providing all the proof I need. Once again, instead of debate on the merits liam the typical liberal simply slings mud.

is that honestly all you've got? It certainly seems that way to me.

it becomes increasingly clear that the liberal calls for "civility" that were so resounding just last week were nothing more than an attempt to censor the opponents of liberalism. No liberal had any intention of changing their ways.

thanks for the smear liam. Thanks for proving that in order for one to a liberal one must first become small and mean.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | January 18, 2011 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Skippy,

You did not answer the earlier commenter who asked you if attack Adam was all you got, and you conveniently skipped over what Newt said about Palin.

Go take your meds, and get better.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 18, 2011 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Skippy agrees with Newt, that Obama is worse than the Nazis and The Soviet Union.

Then Skippy laments the lack of civility. The guy is sick.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 18, 2011 1:23 PM | Report abuse

[wiccan whined: "Do you have any factual rebuttals to Mr. Sewer's post? Ad hominen attacks are always fun for the person who posts them (see KaddafiDelendaEst)"]

My cited facts objectively demonstrated the ad hominem nature of "Sewer's" [sic] WMD smear.

wiccan's inability to rebut those facts reveals another level of intellectual bankruptcy.

*checkmate*

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | January 18, 2011 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Mr Serwer may be a little slow. Causation is fairly straightforward:

All good stems from Bush 43 or Reagan.

All bad stems from Obama, Clinton or Carter.

Any questions?

.

Posted by: bsimon1 | January 18, 2011 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Liam-still, I have never once referred to Adam as "Greg" yet you and caothien9 refer to me as "Jake."

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 18, 2011 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Claw, you are JakeD, you just do not realize it.

Split Personality Disorder works that way.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 18, 2011 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Mr Serwer may be a little slow. Causation is fairly straightforward:

All good stems from Bush 43 or Reagan.

All bad stems from Obama, Clinton or Carter.

Any questions?

.

Posted by: bsimon1 | January 18, 2011 1:32 PM |
......................

Upon second though, I may have been a bit too harsh on Ms. Rubin, and she just might be on to something.

There is a chance that the people of Tunisia have been watching what happened to Iraq, after Bush invaded it, and they have also seen the Republicans make a comeback in the recent American elections.

Therefore they might have decided that they better rebel against their brutal dictator(despite the fact that the Bush regime propped him up) before another crazy Republican gets in the White House a decides to invade their country and devastate it, like Bush did to Iraq.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 18, 2011 1:46 PM | Report abuse

thak you again Liam for proving how small and mean you are. It's a chicken and egg questions: which came first Liam, your smallness and meanness, which lead you to liberalism? Or did your liberalism result in your smallness and meanness?

but in the long run, does it matter? You are acting small and mean and enjoying every second of it. How nice for you.

As for a response to wiccan, tell ya what, I'll take the issue on just as soon as you apologize to me for the smears. since the rumor is that the devil was seen in the furriers last week, I remain hopeful.

done with you son. I have little time today so the amount I'm willing to waste on your nasty bdodunkas is gone.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | January 18, 2011 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Oh noes! Another Bush Doctrine success today:

US strike 'kills five militants in NW Pakistan' (AFP) – 1 hour ago

MIRANSHAH, Pakistan — A US drone attacked a compound in northwest Pakistan's tribal area on Tuesday, killing five militants, security officials said.

"A US drone fired two missiles at a militant compound in Dashgah village killing at least five militants," a senior Pakistani security official told AFP.

"We are trying to ascertain the nationality of the militants killed in the attack."

*you're welcome*

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | January 18, 2011 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Skippy, the perpetual windbag, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

The person asked you the question, before you went off on your customary change the subject tirade, about me.

I am sure that the therapy will help improve your mental state, if you stick with it, but it still will not allow you to grow a pair of testicles, in order to just answer the person's question, instead of trying to excuse your evasion, by linking it to me.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 18, 2011 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Stay classy Liam.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | January 18, 2011 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Liam-still, you are a liar still.

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 18, 2011 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Clawrence,

Why hasn't JakeD banned you from his skull?

Posted by: Liam-still | January 18, 2011 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Windbag Skippy;

You know just about as much about being classy ,as a Polar Bear does about owning a condo in Miami.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 18, 2011 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Because I am not in JakeD's skull.

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 18, 2011 2:19 PM | Report abuse

In Post #1 of the day skip says:"The pavlov's dogs that inhabit the comments section here lap it up and the number of site clicks for Mr Sargent rises."


Post #2 begins: ""it is easy to tell when a liberal has no valid retort: they will not hesitate to go personal."

Not wanting to wait an entire post before exposing his rank hypocrisy Post #2 also contains: "First and foremost liberals can be counted for a nasty, emotion based, personal attack."

In case anybody was unsure what color the pot was calling the kettle, we have Post #3: "Thanks for proving that in order for one to a liberal one must first become small and mean."

Posted by: ashotinthedark | January 18, 2011 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Obama had 666 drawn in the illinois Lottery on the same day as Obama's victory-day.

http://www.youtube.com/user/BeastObrahma?feature=mhum

See the Lottery's website with "Past Winning Numbers" and the number 666.
Also links to Chicago Tribune's front page headlines with Obama's victory and on Page 2 the Lottery results of 666.
Hair-raising and astounding.

Posted by: GeirSmith | January 18, 2011 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Remember the advice. Shoot down. Rubin's entertaining, but she seems so compelled to comment on everything that she lets slip some extremely silly views. For example, going after Michelle Obama for picking childhood obesity as a signature issue. She didn't see the obvious hypocrisy in not critiquing Laura Bush for picking childhood literacy as a signature issue.

On the plus side, you'll have driven some traffic her way. As Cillizza would say, congrats or something.

BB

P.S. Sorry for the cross-post. I had both tabs open at once.

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | January 18, 2011 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Amazing indeed. A great bonanza for those who bet to win, no matter what order the three numbers were drawn in.

State Lotteries are now being run by Satan? Well; isn't that special!

Da Church Lady!!!

Posted by: Liam-still | January 18, 2011 2:38 PM | Report abuse

if shoe fits, wear it liam. a shot. wear it.

that's all I'm pointing out. The nastiness of the left hasn't abated abit.

I still have exactly one person who admitted that the assault on the right over the tucson tradgedy was just plain wrong. All the rest of the liberals are prefectly content with their role in this big lie operation.

Since the left is oblivious to its own depravity I believe I am simply providing a public service by pointing it out. Liam still is just today's example of the smallness and meanness that is characteristic of today's liberal.

it seems to me that the left wants a fight.

OK, fine. I'm your huckleberry. Let's fight. I have no problem with it. Since the left has no intention of demonstrating the least shred of civility, why should anyone else?

Posted by: skipsailing28 | January 18, 2011 2:38 PM | Report abuse

So we spread democracy by borrowing from and greatly strengthening a Communist country to pay for the war?

Only a Republican could use that logic.

Rubin is still waiting for the Iraqis to greet their "liberators" with celebration and gratitude.

Posted by: Beeliever | January 18, 2011 2:40 PM | Report abuse

These comments are becoming more and more unreadable with the (barely) primates flinging poo everywhere.

Jennifer Rubin is an abomination. She has no business anywhere other than on Fox News.

Posted by: kindness1 | January 18, 2011 2:47 PM | Report abuse

I believe Richard Pearle promised us all, that grateful Iraqis would have dedicated a square in Baghdad to President George W. Bush long before now.

They better do it soon, or Sean Hannity will stir up another invasion to take away all their oil.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 18, 2011 2:50 PM | Report abuse

So when is Congresswoman Giffords going to apologize to Sarah Palin for letting herself get shot, which really caused poor Sarah more pain and anguish than anyone who got shot in Tucson.

Why hasn't the nation dedicated a month of mourning to mark the terrible suffering that Sarah Palin has endured?

Posted by: Liam-still | January 18, 2011 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Skip-

In case you missed it, my post was pointing out the absurd level of hypocrisy in your string of posts today, which were nothing more than ad hominem attacks on liberals at large for making ad hominem attacks. You then respond with a demand that Liam and I apologize.

Such an unresponsive response is entirely consistent with your first post of the day that critiqued how Adam makes a living rather than responding to the actual article Adam wrote in response to Rabin.

As for Adam's point, connecting Bush to the developments in Tunisia seem specious at best. Interestingly, depending on how democracy develops in Tunisia and Iraq, we may have a great case study of whether indigenous democratic movements are more successful than movements started by outside military forces.

Posted by: ashotinthedark | January 18, 2011 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Skip-

In case you missed it, my post was pointing out the absurd level of hypocrisy in your string of posts today, which were nothing more than ad hominem attacks on liberals at large for making ad hominem attacks. You then respond with a demand that Liam and I apologize.

Such an unresponsive response is entirely consistent with your first post of the day that critiqued how Adam makes a living rather than responding to the actual article Adam wrote in response to Rabin.

As for Adam's point, connecting Bush to the developments in Tunisia seem specious at best. Interestingly, depending on how democracy develops in Tunisia and Iraq, we may have a great case study of whether indigenous democratic movements are more successful than movements started by outside military forces.

Posted by: ashotinthedark | January 18, 2011 3:25 PM | Report abuse

@skip Your 12:51PM was a classic.

You spent six paragraphs of nothing but ad hominem attacks. Worse still you provided no logic, or links, or anything intellectual whatsoever to even justify your incredibly biased opinion.

Are you lazy Skip or simply not talented enough to justify or back up any of your vitriol? Really what is the purpose of these invectives? Seriously what's the point.
To prove that you're such a wild ideologue that you've sacrificed intellectual discourse in favor of rabid ad hominem attacks?

And then to top it all off Skip you post this nonsense...

"Note how Liam simply cannot refute the actual position taken by Mr Gingrich. He cannot explain to anyone why he believes that Mr Gingrich is simply wrong."

UNLIKE YOU Skip, Liam actually posted a couple of examples to back up his point.
They self evidently go with his post...see if I can help you out Skip...

Someone who writes the extreme, hateful stuff as Newt (AGAIN SKIP SEE THE EXAMPLES)
is probably one of the largest hypocrites in the world for challenging someone else over their choices of metaphors or words.

Now Skip I hope you don't have to ask for my address again so you can come to St. Pete and settle it like "Men" LMAO
When people ask for my address so they can "settle" anything..I don't really assume them to be manly at all...but I'm always concerned they'll bring along their Glock.

Posted by: rukidding7 | January 18, 2011 5:25 PM | Report abuse

@Skip As I catch up on the other posts here there was a comment that you have claimed to have receive daily mental therapy.

If that is true...then I retract my last post and quite frankly would be embarrassed to have written it if you are getting therapy.

If it is true...congrats to you on doing something that all of us could probably use...and if you have truly admitted to getting daily mental therapy and that's not just some blog hyperbolic insult...then Skip you have my true respect. I may not agree with you but if you can admit that...that to me is what makes a real man...not somebody who can kick my butt or bring a glock to scare me.

Again Skip if that's true I apologize...if not however...my post stands! :-)

Posted by: rukidding7 | January 18, 2011 5:33 PM | Report abuse

On the other hand, Bush did help cause the economic crisis that played a big factor in the Tunisian revolt.

Posted by: michiganmaine | January 18, 2011 9:14 PM | Report abuse

the only question i have is how did a once respected newspaper like the wapo fall into the hands of idiots like rubin?

Posted by: jimfilyaw | January 18, 2011 11:26 PM | Report abuse

the only question I have is how did a once great nation like America fall into the hands of a pack of buffoons like the Republicans?

Posted by: caothien9 | January 19, 2011 6:12 AM | Report abuse

Excuse me but once you've read enough posts by one of these yahoos to know that there's never going to be anything worth your time, why in heaven's name would you read any more?

If you've read a dozen skipsailing posts you already know all you will ever need to. You can predict his position down to the smallest detail on any issue ever under discussion and you know that his every post will be big on the personal stuff and short on the details and absent any originality.

I don't know about you dear reader but I only have so many decades on this earth and I have fewer before me than behind me, I'll be damned if I'm going to waste any of my precious remaining years on a nasty, low-IQ dittohead like skipsailing.

Add him to your troll hunter list, or scroll past, but for heaven't sake manage your time better than reading such dreck.

Posted by: caothien9 | January 19, 2011 6:34 AM | Report abuse

Greg, why haven't you banned caothien9?

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 19, 2011 7:10 AM | Report abuse

I will be extremely surprised if Tunisians start citing George W Bush as the inspiration for their revolution.

Posted by: hapinsl | January 21, 2011 5:35 PM | Report abuse

I will be extremely surprised if Tunisians start citing George W Bush as the inspiration for their revolution.

More seriously, it is the height of arrogance to believe that America somehow inspires every momentous change that happens in the world. Its the mirror image of the rampant conspiracy-theorizing that goes on in the rest of the Arab world -- that, because something that *might* benefit America happens, America is somehow magically responbsible.\

And theres no guarantee that this will end well. We could be facing a "Prague/1968" situation moreso than a "Jakarta/1998" situation.

Posted by: hapinsl | January 21, 2011 5:51 PM | Report abuse

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