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Posted at 2:28 PM ET, 01/12/2011

Chamber of Commerce prez: Debt ceiling hike "will be done"

By Greg Sargent

With a showdown over the debt ceiling looming, Dems are taking solace from the fact that the head of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce -- a staunch GOP ally -- said flatly on MSNBC this morning that he strongly supports raising the debt ceiling, and that despite all the poitical chest thumping from some Republicans, it's already a foregone conclusion:

Some Republican officials have insisted in recent days that they cannot support hiking the debt ceiling unless Obama and Dems make major concessions on bringing down spending. Since many observers say failure to raise the debt ceiling would be catastrophic for the country, this effort by Republicans looks like an effort to use the showdown as a bargaining chip to force the Dems' hand on spending cuts.

That's why the appearance above by Chamber president Tom Donohue is key. "We absolutely support the expansion of the debt," Chamber president Tom Donohue said. He added that officials should make a few gestures in the direction of spending cuts, but dismissed the brinksmanship as mainly political posturing.

"We've got to do the debt ceiling," he said. "There'll be a lot of political carrying on, but it will be done."

This is a sign that those Republicans insisting that they are willing to hold out against raising the debt ceiling may not have quite the leverage they think they do. That a staunch GOP ally like Donohue is already predicting it's a done deal suggests Dems are going into this showdown with a pretty strong hand.

UPDATE, 2:37 p.m.: A labor source emails over a smart point, arguing that this also shows a "big divide on some issues between `traditional' Republican business support and the new tea party folks."

By Greg Sargent  | January 12, 2011; 2:28 PM ET
Categories:  debt ceiling  
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Comments

"We've got to do the debt ceiling,"

This is anathema to the TP. This may mark the time when the Republican party's monied interests and their downwardly mobilized base begin to separate. Republicans resigning in fear of the armed faction they created and nurtured may become more common.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 12, 2011 2:37 PM | Report abuse

We all know how that worked out with the tax cuts for the rich. Well, the strong Democratic hand part.

Posted by: Calvin_Jones_and_the_13th_Apostle | January 12, 2011 2:39 PM | Report abuse

shrink, good call. I just added a similar point in an update.

Posted by: Greg Sargent | January 12, 2011 2:39 PM | Report abuse

What!!!

No mention of Sarah Palin?

I'm shocked......shocked!

Posted by: battleground51 | January 12, 2011 2:40 PM | Report abuse

The Chamber supported:

The Economic Stimulus Package

Wall Street Bailouts

The GM/Chrysler Bailout

Which is what confused me that there was some cross support of some of the Chamber preferred candidates and tea party candidates. Either the Tea Partier's were willfully ignorant and just wanted a Republican representing them and don't really care about spending or they were bamboozled into voting for a Bush style spending Republican.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | January 12, 2011 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Here are a couple of arguments regarding competing currencies that Loughner was vaguely referencing. Currency seems to be his main motive. He mentions it in at least three videos and says it's his ambition.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul434.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/brimelow3.html

Posted by: Truthteller12 | January 12, 2011 2:46 PM | Report abuse

How about examining how PROVOCATIVE Obama's actions have been?


How about examining how PROVOCATIVE the False Charges of racism have been?


How about examing how PROVOCATIVE jamming through reconciliation has been?


How about examing how PROVACTIVE the lame duck session has been, after the election in which the democrats lost ???

HOW ABOUT IT, this is getting ridiculous.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 12, 2011 2:47 PM | Report abuse

@battleground:

|img:http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2008/10/28/sarah_palin_wideweb__470x313,0.jpg|

You should be using the WaPo Troll Hunter. Does more than hunt trolls!

http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/89140

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | January 12, 2011 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Did I get flagged for something? a comment on the previous thread was held for moderation. or what that just a quirk in the system?

Posted by: NoVAHockey | January 12, 2011 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Kevin, pls don't post any obscenities. |img:http://www.emoticonsfree.org/wp-content/uploads/mad0233.gif|

k? thnx

heh

Posted by: mikefromArlington | January 12, 2011 2:55 PM | Report abuse

OMG (Gillespie, Nick)! Lew Rockwell (and therefore Ron Paul) shot Giffords too?!

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 12, 2011 2:56 PM | Report abuse

@naVA,

You probably used a prohibited word. Or it could be a quirk. I've had it happen to me too. Just redraft without the word.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 12, 2011 2:57 PM | Report abuse

@kevin: I'm sure troll hunter works fabulously for many, but some of us are not going to install software on the same computer we use for work. With that in mind, the comments of the troll hunter users are beginning to look quite odd.

Posted by: sbj3 | January 12, 2011 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Oh please. After weeks of reading liberal moaning about how the Democrats and Obama have abandonned them are we supposed to view the difference of opinion as armageddon for conservatives? hardly.

come now shrink, you're better than that.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | January 12, 2011 2:59 PM | Report abuse

@NoVaHockey

"Did I get flagged for something? a comment on the previous thread was held for moderation. or what that just a quirk in the system?"

That still happens to me occasionally and perhaps this is the reason it happened to you. Try my solution if it doesn't work check with our resident IT Geek Kevin.

NoVa you might have run into the church lady. Earlier I tried to post with the words p*mp and sl*t and it never got through. Church lady even knows the the offensive acronyms like ST&U...so when you get that moderation response simply hit the back browser on your button to get back to your comment. Review for anything that might even marginally p&ss off the church lady censor...change it...hit the submit button once again and your good to go....

Now that's the last nice thing from me today NoVaHockey...your Caps invade(I know athletics if full of war like violent metaphors) Tampa tonight for a battle with MY first place Lightning. Thought I better pull your chain NoVa while we're still in first before your Caps retake the spot. :-)

Posted by: rukidding7 | January 12, 2011 2:59 PM | Report abuse

@kevin,

You have raised Troll Hunter to an art form. Very clever of you to entice new users.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 12, 2011 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Greg

Why don't you have a headline along the lines that Sarah Palin and the Chamber of Commerce are SO DIVIDED on this issue that the Republican party is about to disolve into complete chaos???


Wouldn't that narrative fit your devious, reality-challenged mind???


Instead of a Happy Hour Roundup, why don't we have Sarah's Greatest Hits - you can "debunk" all of Sarah's greatest lines - with links to our favorite Journo-victs.


Anyway, that is a great idea - I thought you were going to turn this horrible crime into an All-Sarah All-day attackfest.


anyway.... your liberal hate mongers are disappointed...


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 12, 2011 3:00 PM | Report abuse

I've got to get my wife one of those Palin Patriot brooches. Now that her political career is over, she is going to need to sell chachkas, no bad idea, I mean bric-a-brac, knick knacks, momentoes, costume jewelry, stuff to remember her by.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 12, 2011 3:01 PM | Report abuse

@ 12 and Ruk -- thanks, will revise my profound and insightful remarks.

Also Ruk -- you must have missed my earlier response -- I'm a Pens fan. So please do beat the Caps tonight.

Posted by: NoVAHockey | January 12, 2011 3:03 PM | Report abuse

"With that in mind, the comments of the troll hunter users are beginning to look quite odd."

LOL. Have you ever read Rainforests posts?

Posted by: mikefromArlington | January 12, 2011 3:04 PM | Report abuse

"So please do beat the Caps tonight. "

Booo!

Posted by: mikefromArlington | January 12, 2011 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Now that her political career is over, she is going to need to sell chachkas, no bad idea, I mean bric-a-brac, knick knacks, momentoes, costume jewelry, stuff to remember her by.
---------------------------------------------------------
That's amazing that you suggest that idea. That's exactly what Dr. Laura does. She sells jewelry that she makes herself. Now, let me think, did she start doing that about the time her political rhetoric caused her ratings to plummet and her television show to be cancelled? Nah, that would be just *too* big a coincidence.

|http://www.moonstones.com/dr.laura_jewelry.html|

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 12, 2011 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Wow. Have you guys seen this yet? Check out all these posts by Loughner. Crazy stuff.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread649091/pg1

Posted by: Truthteller12 | January 12, 2011 3:09 PM | Report abuse

how do you get the image to show?

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 12, 2011 3:11 PM | Report abuse

But skip, isn't trying to incite the other party into self-immolation part of the fun? I mean, we heard all those TP people talk about holding both parties accountable and how there would be "hell to pay" and that all they were about was shrinking the size of government.

Were they just kidding? Now are they going to fold their mock Winter at Valley Forge re-enactors' tent and get behind the Bush/Obama monetary policy? C'mon, I thought the TP was better than that, I thought the TP had a spine.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 12, 2011 3:13 PM | Report abuse

@Greg

I took a two month hiatus from your blog quite frankly because of all the hate. The moronic pointless trolls like RFR or KDE are simply aggravations but the hate was getting me down.

I return to find that you are still posting well thought out and journalistically driven posts...kudos to you Greg on your posts since this tragedy.

And at the end of today let's see the comments on this topic versus the number on any of the S.P. items. And yet the SP people still wish to blame you for all of this.

Could you get your church lady to filter another word... HOMO! Hared is just over the top when he goes off on his homo rants. IMHO this is not acceptable and offensive to both our straight and gay posters alike.

Back OT. Everybody knows they're going to raise the debt ceiling...what we don't know is how the TP beholden pols will handle this. I suspect they'll do the same as Obama the last time this came up and he voted no. They'll count the votes...see how many no's they can afford before actually defeating the bill..and then argue over who gets to vote no to please their TP constituents and the R Caucus will apportion those no's to the members who need them most. It could get interesting if there are too many TP beholden reps to give out those no passes and still actually pass the bill.

Posted by: rukidding7 | January 12, 2011 3:13 PM | Report abuse

@NoVa Sorry I did miss the fact that you are a Penguins fan....isn't it rough on you in ...wait for it another military metaphor...enemy territory.

FWIW I hope you got to see the HBO 24/7 series on your big outdoor showdown with the Caps...what a great game..despite the rain...and in your and my case despite a Caps win...the entire series was the best thing I've ever seen covering the NHL and I'm not a young man. :-)

Posted by: rukidding7 | January 12, 2011 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Now that her political career is over, she is going to need to sell chachkas, no bad idea, I mean bric-a-brac, knick knacks, momentoes, costume jewelry, stuff to remember her by.
---------------------------------------------------------
That's amazing that you suggest that idea. That's exactly what Dr. Laura does. She sells jewelry that she makes herself. Now, let me think, did she start doing that about the time her political rhetoric caused her ratings to plummet and her television show to be cancelled? Nah, that would be just **too** big a coincidence.

|img:http://www.moonstones.com/dr.laura_jewelry.html|

I'm gonna work on this til I get it.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 12, 2011 3:20 PM | Report abuse

rukidding7,

Word of adive, if you treat RFR and KDE post as pure comedy, it helps, a lot. In the end of the day, that is what they are. They are here to provide over the top comedy.

I noticed that that is what they are, and ever since, this place (or my view of this place) has improved so much.

Trust me, if you laugh it off, it will be much better.

And their message will be blunted

Posted by: somethingelse2 | January 12, 2011 3:20 PM | Report abuse

If the debt ceiling bill is must pass legislation, the House should tie something to it that they say they want, but have little chance of passing otherwise. slap hcr repeal onto it and see who blinks first.

Posted by: NoVAHockey | January 12, 2011 3:20 PM | Report abuse

"slap hcr repeal onto it and see who blinks first. "

The Senate would strip it out, vote on the debt ceiling bill and send it back to the House again.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | January 12, 2011 3:23 PM | Report abuse

"slap hcr repeal onto it and see who blinks first"

That is the funny part. A great idea, if they were serious about their Contract for America. But they aren't.

The Rs don't want to repeal ACA (I refuse to call it reform, calling it affordable is just funny) because the health care industry does not want to repeal it.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 12, 2011 3:25 PM | Report abuse

@somethingelse

Thanks! I agree with your advice and in fact have been trying to practice what you are preaching and I agree they are simply jokes.

In fact at the risk of encouraging him I must confess it was fun to watch a bizarre mind at work as RFR created yet another sock puppet so as to talk to himself and praise himself. What I actually found a bit amusing was RFR complimenting himself on his sense of humor. LMAO

I'll leave it to shrink to determine if this kind of behavior tells us anything about RFR's mental health...talking to oneself is suspect is not that rare..but doing it in such a formal and public setting seems a bit peculiar.

Posted by: rukidding7 | January 12, 2011 3:30 PM | Report abuse

The Senate would strip it out, vote on the debt ceiling bill and send it back to the House again.

Sure -- and send it right back. or refuse to take it up again. say "we passed the debt ceiling bill and are moving forward. it's the senate's problem" the senate is could dump the whole thing on obama's desk and make him choose. somebody will have to give in. but shrink is right about them not actually wanting a repeal.

Posted by: NoVAHockey | January 12, 2011 3:31 PM | Report abuse

@sbj3: The novelty wears off and things mostly go back to normal. Hang tight!

12bar: The link has to be to an image, not a website, per se, so you'd pick an image, right-click and "Copy Image URL" and use it, like this:

|img:http://www.moonstones.com/Key%20to%20My%20Heart.jpg|

Thats Pipe-img-colon-imageUrl-pipe.

But it has to be an image URL.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | January 12, 2011 3:32 PM | Report abuse

@shrink I wish you were on this blog during the HCR debate...we could have had some fun.

Posted by: rukidding7 | January 12, 2011 3:32 PM | Report abuse

@NOVAHockey: "Did I get flagged for something? a comment on the previous thread was held for moderation. or what that just a quirk in the system?"

You get flagged for comments that are exactly 3000 characters (delete one and you'll be fine) or language. So look and see if there's something that might be sexual or profanity. Also, more than 2 http:// or www., I think.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | January 12, 2011 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Kev. That was my problem. I have it now.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 12, 2011 3:40 PM | Report abuse

I had a typo that resulted in a bad word.

Posted by: NoVAHockey | January 12, 2011 3:40 PM | Report abuse

@Kevin: Just downloaded your latest version of the trollhunter. Hats off to you and thanks for all of the work (minus the Palin images, of course). :)

Posted by: schrodingerscat | January 12, 2011 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Kevin probably thinks all of us will add him to our Favorites list.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 12, 2011 3:48 PM | Report abuse

@schrodinger: "@Kevin: Just downloaded your latest version of the trollhunter"

Glad you like it! Remember to try out the Favoriting. Just click on the "Posted by: User_Name" over any comment and that user will be favorited, and hi-lited. Do it again to unhilite that person, or just clear the favorite list (at the very bottom of the page) to clear favorites.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | January 12, 2011 3:49 PM | Report abuse

All, tried one more time to make the point about the shooting:

http://wapo.st/heYDKq

Posted by: Greg Sargent | January 12, 2011 3:57 PM | Report abuse

@12Bar: “Kevin probably thinks all of us will add him to our Favorites list.“

You mean--•sniff•--you're •not•??

Heh. If I was that worried about it, I coulda just hardwired it into the script. Indeed, Ethan2010 just blocked me. So I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be added to his favorites.

Just want it tried out by somebody other than me. Probably not going to get as much use as the blocking function, but still.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | January 12, 2011 4:01 PM | Report abuse

|red: Tell me how to do the yellow hi-lite or I'm gonna Blow!|

Posted by: shrink2 | January 12, 2011 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Favorites help for working stiffs because you can favorite someone who wanted a response you don't have time to get to - then hours later, you can find where that was easily.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 12, 2011 4:08 PM | Report abuse

@Shrink: “Tell me how to do the yellow hi-lite or I'm gonna Blow!“

It's pipe-hi-colon-This is my hilited text-pipe. |hi:Thus, this is hilited text|. Which should look like this when you type it

|hi : Only leave out the space between the colon and the "hi"|

Hope that clarifies. ;)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | January 12, 2011 4:08 PM | Report abuse

|hi: Outstanding!|

Posted by: shrink2 | January 12, 2011 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Shrink: I did a thing for my AICN Extra Stuff mod that lets TalkBackers do white type, so it's invisible, but if you select it then you see it! Sort of Spoiler Inviso-Text . . . didn't really see the point of doing that here, but . . .

I also did a thing where you could embed mp3s, but that's problematical, so I don't think I'm going to do that here. Either they'd autostart or they'd definitely go ahead and autoload, and that was too much of a pain in the patootie.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | January 12, 2011 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Just to remind you, this issue of violence and dangerous, moralistic rhetoric is nothing new.

|img:http://forbiddenplanet.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/moralssquad.jpg|

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | January 12, 2011 4:21 PM | Report abuse

KW, thanks for the updated software, although I have not yet loaded it.

Should the Congress actually balk at raising the Debt Limit, Treasury would still write checks, and you can bet the Fed Reserve would permit them to be honored. Thus Congress, which must back the previous obligations of the USA, would find itself in a Constitutional crack.

So the Debt Limit will be raised. IMHO.

BTW, the Debt Limit is an artifice and not a Constitutional mandate. Should the crack appear, I would expect the Supremes to actually side with the executive branch - and the way to do that without mandating Congress do something would be to declare any Debt Limit that impairs the Congressional backing of obligations already incurred unconstitutional.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | January 12, 2011 4:21 PM | Report abuse

@mark_in_austin: "KW, thanks for the updated software, although I have not yet loaded it."

I hope everybody does. I just think I found the perfect use for the image embed (see above, once you update). Add a nice B&W editorial cartoon into the comments, and it's just . . . magnifique!

All right. My opinion. Just sayin'.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | January 12, 2011 4:24 PM | Report abuse


|img:http://tinyurl.com/5u3j48r|

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | January 12, 2011 4:30 PM | Report abuse

""the Debt Limit is an artifice""

Exactly. I have called it an affectation. Like wearing your hair in a certain way to let everyone know you are force to be reckoned with.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 12, 2011 4:31 PM | Report abuse

(Reuters) - The U.S. public overwhelmingly opposes raising the country's debt limit even though failure to do so could hurt America's international standing and push up borrowing costs, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll released on Wednesday.

Some 71 percent of those surveyed oppose increasing the borrowing authority, the focus of a brewing political battle over federal spending. Only 18 percent support an increase.
{...}

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70B38620110112

Posted by: tao9 | January 12, 2011 4:34 PM | Report abuse

tao, no doubt, so, what do you think is going to happen?

skip said, "After weeks of reading liberal moaning about how the Democrats and Obama have abandonned them"

yeah we did that, we had a fight and it is |red:not over|.

...are we supposed to view the difference of opinion as armageddon for conservatives?"

So, are conservatives going to laugh this little difference of opinion off? Because I thought that smaller government, less spending thing was like, a big deal. 71% seems like a big deal.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 12, 2011 5:19 PM | Report abuse

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