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Posted at 11:38 AM ET, 01/10/2011

Official: DHS has not determined any possible ties between Arizona shooter and right wing group

By Greg Sargent

For the last 24 hours, the Web has been alive with speculation that the Arizona shooter has some sort of ties to a right-wing group called American Renaissance. The primary source for this claim is a Fox News report from yesterday saying that law enforcement had made this determination based on information provided by the Department of Homeland Security.

But a DHS official tells me that the department has not established any such possibility, undercutting what appears to be the primary basis for this claim.

Fox News's report yesterday initially claimed that a DHS memo had outlined the possible connection, and defined American Renaissance as a "pro-white racist organization" that Jared Loughner "mentioned in some of his internet postings." Fox later walked back the report a bit, sourcing the claim to "a law enforcement memo based on information provided by DHS."

The Fox report caused a splash, with some news orgs reporting that anonymous officials had confirmed such possible ties. Some conservatives railed at DHS for supposedly trying to tie the shooter to the right for political reasons, and others disputed the suggestion that this displayed the shooter's ideological leanings.

But DHS has not officially provided any such information to any law enforcement officials, the DHS official says.

"We have not established any such possible link," the official says.

The official cautions it's conceivable that a law enforcement official got unofficial info from a DHS official somewhere along the lines of what Fox reported. But he emphasizes that DHS has not even concluded in any official way that even the possibility of such ties exists. The official adds that it wouldn't be DHS's place to reach any such conclusion in the first place, since the FBI is leading the investigation.

Spokespeople for Fox didn't immediately return an email for comment. For now, however, it looks like this could further complicate efforts to pin down the shooter's beliefs.

By Greg Sargent  | January 10, 2011; 11:38 AM ET
Categories:  House Dems, Political media  
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Next: Calls for `civility' generally prove short-lived

Comments

Well, if nothing else, we already knew that Fox News sucks at "teh journalism".

Posted by: Ethan2010 | January 10, 2011 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Major reason I refuse to watch Fox. You can't believe a darn thing they report.

Posted by: clintt5 | January 10, 2011 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Not as bad as the horrific reporting on the day of this tragedy when I believe it was NPR that broke the news the Congress-lady had died.

Nonetheless though, still bad as it, as Greg stated, complicates the blame game going on right now between the right and the left.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | January 10, 2011 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Oh great, now this...

"After Arizona Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was shot on Saturday, Congressman Danny Davis' (D-IL) office reportedly received a threatening email warning that "Danny Davis is next.""

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/rep-danny-davis-receives-threat-arizona-shooting/

This event is unfortunately emboldening the nut jobs looking for their five minutes of fame.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | January 10, 2011 11:55 AM | Report abuse

"Not as bad as the horrific reporting on the day of this tragedy when I believe it was NPR that broke the news the Congress-lady had died."

The report I read on the NPR site that day said that there were conflicting reports, but that the sherriff's office told them she was among the dead. Error, yes. Horrific? hyperbole. Other media made the same error; why do you single out NPR?

Posted by: bsimon1 | January 10, 2011 11:56 AM | Report abuse

OT but along the lines of what fuels whacko's in this country:

"WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court has rejected an appeal from a lawyer who has been in the forefront of the challenge to President Barack Obama's citizenship.

The high court on Monday did not comment in refusing to hear the appeal filed by California lawyer and dentist Orly Taitz. She was contesting a $20,000 fine for filing what a federal judge determined was a frivolous lawsuit.

The suit was filed on behalf of Army Capt. Connie Rhodes, who sought to avoid deployment to Iraq by claiming Obama wasn't born in the United States and thus, is ineligible to be president and commander in chief."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/7374142.html

That should put it to rest no? Yeah right.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | January 10, 2011 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Greg this statement from American Renaissance was posted on your site YESTERDAY at 3:21 pm


STATEMENT BY AMERICAN RENAISSANCE

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) reportedly issued a memo claiming that the shooter, Jared Loughner, has some connection with American Renaissance. We have received a copy of the memo, the relevant portion of which we reproduce here:

>

This is so hopelessly wrong that it is hard to believe it is a genuine government document. No one by the name of Loughner has ever been a subscriber to American Renaissance or has ever registered for an American Renaissance conference. We have no evidence that he has even visited the AR website.

American Renaissance condemns violence in the strongest possible terms, and nothing that has ever appeared in it pages could be interpreted as countenancing it.

AR is not anti-government, anti-Semitic, or anti-ZOG, as is clear from the 20 years of back issues that are posted on our website. The expression “ZOG” has never appeared in the pages of AR, and we have has always welcomed Jewish participation in our work. Many of the speakers at American Renaissance conferences have been Jewish.

Although the name Gabrielle Giffords has appeared in news articles we have excerpted on our website, AR itself has never mentioned her and has certainly never criticized her policies.

Finally, Gabrielle Giffords is not the “first Jewish female elected to such a high position in the US government.” Barbara Boxer has represented California in the Senate from 1993, and Diane Feinstein has done so since 1992. There are at least six Jewish congresswomen listed by Wikipedia as currently serving in the House.

If this memo is typical of the research done by the Department of Homeland Security, our country is in serious danger.

I telephoned DHS today to try to get the bottom of this nonsense, but apparently there is no homeland security on Sundays. The person who answered the phone said no one is there and that I should call back on Monday morning.

Fortunately, some of the media organizations that have been reporting this story have contacted me, and have reported my assertion that American Renaissance knows nothing at all about Jared Loughner, that we condemn all violence, and that we cannot possibly be described as anti-Semitic.

Even Mark Potok of the SPLC was quoted today as saying, “Jared Taylor is not an anti-Semite.”

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 10, 2011 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Greg this statement from American Renaissance was posted on your blog YESTERDAY at 3;21 pm


STATEMENT BY AMERICAN RENAISSANCE

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) reportedly issued a memo claiming that the shooter, Jared Loughner, has some connection with American Renaissance. We have received a copy of the memo, the relevant portion of which we reproduce here:

>

This is so hopelessly wrong that it is hard to believe it is a genuine government document. No one by the name of Loughner has ever been a subscriber to American Renaissance or has ever registered for an American Renaissance conference. We have no evidence that he has even visited the AR website.

American Renaissance condemns violence in the strongest possible terms, and nothing that has ever appeared in it pages could be interpreted as countenancing it.

AR is not anti-government, anti-Semitic, or anti-ZOG, as is clear from the 20 years of back issues that are posted on our website. The expression “ZOG” has never appeared in the pages of AR, and we have has always welcomed Jewish participation in our work. Many of the speakers at American Renaissance conferences have been Jewish.

Although the name Gabrielle Giffords has appeared in news articles we have excerpted on our website, AR itself has never mentioned her and has certainly never criticized her policies.

Finally, Gabrielle Giffords is not the “first Jewish female elected to such a high position in the US government.” Barbara Boxer has represented California in the Senate from 1993, and Diane Feinstein has done so since 1992. There are at least six Jewish congresswomen listed by Wikipedia as currently serving in the House.

If this memo is typical of the research done by the Department of Homeland Security, our country is in serious danger.

I telephoned DHS today to try to get the bottom of this nonsense, but apparently there is no homeland security on Sundays. The person who answered the phone said no one is there and that I should call back on Monday morning.

Fortunately, some of the media organizations that have been reporting this story have contacted me, and have reported my assertion that American Renaissance knows nothing at all about Jared Loughner, that we condemn all violence, and that we cannot possibly be described as anti-Semitic.

Even Mark Potok of the SPLC was quoted today as saying, “Jared Taylor is not an anti-Semite.”

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 10, 2011 11:59 AM | Report abuse

"Horrific? hyperbole. "

Really?

The family members were in the recovery waiting area when they started getting txt messages that their daughter/wife had died.

I don't know what kind of personality you are but if that were me, I'd consider that news horrific.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | January 10, 2011 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Must-read, if you haven't already:

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-friend-voicemail-phone-message

Also, this:

"The extreme right reporters and radio and TV have added to this problem, and I'm just hoping that will change," Maisch told Shepard Smith in her first television interview on Fox News on Sunday night. "That's my hope, is that the Republicans will stop naming bills in very hateful ways, like the job killing whatever the rest of that bill is, I think that the extreme right has just gone too far."

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/01/woman_who_grabbed_gun_clip_extreme_right_added_to.php

Who are we going to listen to, a woman on Main Street who was on the scene and confronted the insane attacker, or Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin, who defend their violent and hatred-filled incendiary rhetoric because they profit off of it?

Who has more to lose by defending the indefensible extreme right positions?

The answer is obvious.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | January 10, 2011 12:02 PM | Report abuse

"complicates the blame game going on right now between the right and the left."

Mike: What did the Left do? The Left has no blame here. To the extent the Democrats represent the Left, they are the victims in the form of an attempted assassination. The Right Wing's Hate Machine probably does have some responsibility for what happened but it is uncertain how much. Nevertheless, as you can plainly see, the Right intends to take no responsibility for anything no matter what. These false equivalencies and erroneous "they're-both-guilty" assertions are simply a way of deflecting responsibility: If everyone is guilty then no one is guilty. That is why the Right Wing does it. To improve things we must be honest: there is a massive Right Wing Hate Machine that dominates this country. There is nothing remotely comparable on the Left. In fact, the Left barely exists in this country.

Posted by: wbgonne | January 10, 2011 12:02 PM | Report abuse

There is some hope: even Lee Atwater aplogized...

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | January 10, 2011 12:03 PM | Report abuse

You know, even if someone found that this suspect went to some meetings - that DOESN'T mean that group was involved.

So FAR, all they have found is a letter from the victim saying the suspect was at one of HER meetings.

Attendance at a meeting does not prove any guilt or even real association. Much more is needed to link people.


At this point, the nation needs an investigation into the SMEAR campaign over the weekend.

Is it appropriate for groups linked to the President of the United States, who is the Chief Law Enforcement Officer, to engage in a SMEAR campaign during a criminal investigation.

AND have Obama do NOTHING and SAY NOTHING to stop the smear campaign, which he has to KNOW his people are engaged in.

Seriously folks - this is Nixonian stuff.


Posted by: RainForestRising | January 10, 2011 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Holy hell wbgonne.

I know the right is overwhelmingly responsible for over the top rhetoric.

But, in this circumstance, I see commentators and writers of blogs on both ends going to great leaps of logic to tie the assassin to either the right or the left, including myself.

In all honesty, I'm just trying to get under Rains borderline psychopath skin. From what I've read, I don't believe this kid was necessarily part of what people would consider the right BUT, considering the kind of atmosphere in Arizona lately, it wouldn't surprise me if the discussions going on over there fueled his anti-Government sentiment.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | January 10, 2011 12:08 PM | Report abuse

cable news is good for breaking news. I heard about the shooting at the gym. it became clear that other than the fact the shooting had happened, they didn't have a clue. this isn't likely to change. go elsewhere for analysis and insight on the shooter.

Posted by: NoVAHockey | January 10, 2011 12:09 PM | Report abuse

wbgonne in reply to your comment at 12:02 PM

YOU know perfectly well what the left has done to poison the political atmsosphere in this nation

- false charges of racism is just the beginning

- desrecting the election of Scott Brown

- pushing through Major Social legislation on Reconcilation - a procedure designed for RECONCILING MONEY ISSUES ONLY


- disrespecting the November election


- Pushing and jamming through a lame duck session in direct OPPOSITION to the will of the voters as expressed in November


The LEFT AS DONE PLENTY


Stop the deceptions and pretending to be innocent

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 10, 2011 12:10 PM | Report abuse

"considering the kind of atmosphere in Arizona lately, it wouldn't surprise me if the discussions going on over there fueled his anti-Government sentiment."

And that's the point. Try getting a Conservative here -- any one of them -- to acknowledge that is even a possibility. Not only that, The Right Wing PC Police insist that such things not even be discussed. Look at what the Right Wing Hate Machine is doing to the Tucson Sheriff who had the audacity to stray from Rush Limbaugh's approved script and say that the incendiary Right WIng atmosphere in AZ is dangerous. Watch how far any discussions of gun control or providing mental health care get with the Right Wing. The Right Wing PC Squad is determined to control the debate in this nation and will demonize everyone who gets in the way.

Posted by: wbgonne | January 10, 2011 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone found out what his parents are like?

Posted by: mikefromArlington | January 10, 2011 12:22 PM | Report abuse

wbgonne in reply to your comment at 12:18 PM


How about getting Obama and the democrats to acknowledge that going BACK on all their campaign promises of bipartisanship has POISONED THE ATMOSPHERE


Sorry


The FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM DONT HELP EITHER


Are you completely stupid or just a complete liar???


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 10, 2011 12:23 PM | Report abuse

The progressive "climate of hate": A comprehensive illustrated primer in 8 parts (2000-2010)
http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/the-progressive-climate-of-hate-an-illustrated-primer-2000-2010/

Own your seething hate-mongering venom, Leftists.

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | January 10, 2011 12:25 PM | Report abuse

FLASHBACK August 2010: Michael Enright (Leftist interfaith film company volunteer) stabbed an anti-mosque Muslim NYC cabbie and faces trial this year.
http://michellemalkin.com/2010/08/25/left-the-muslim-cabbie-stabbing-was-right-wing-islamophobia-oh-wait-a-minute/

Leftists rushed to lynch the entire Right for that "progressive" hate crime, too.

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | January 10, 2011 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Can anyone imagine TEA ralliers fantasizing about Obama's severed head?
http://www.lookingattheleft.com/2008/10/festival-of-obama/

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | January 10, 2011 12:26 PM | Report abuse

"Official: DHS has not determined any possible ties between Arizona shooter and law enforcement group"

...................................

Greg,

I do not understand your thread headline. Are you saying that the right wing group, known as American Renaissance, is connected to law enforcement agencies, or did you just screw up the headline?

Posted by: Liam-still | January 10, 2011 12:27 PM | Report abuse

I find it deliciously ironic that liberals are the ones keeping this bogus story alive, and Fox News is the source of the story.

Liberals are getting their news from Fox!

Posted by: blert | January 10, 2011 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Can Leftists imagine a Giffords effigy hung from a noose?
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/27/can-you-imagine-if-an-obama-effigy-were-hung-from-a-noose/

Own the Leftist violent rhetoric and vitriol.

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | January 10, 2011 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Obama's Leftist "progressives" spent the last decade on CNN committing acts of criminal mayhem during their kristalnaght-style, anti-Semitic gutter riots (masquerading as "peace" protests) in support of Islamo-supremacism to achieve their hate-America political agenda. http://www.zombietime.com/hall_of_shame

Yet Leftists now have the temerity to climb up on their hind legs (without a shred of evidence) and howl about (alleged) "violent rhetoric" from Taxed Enough Already (TEA) ralliers?

This shooter was one of your own. Own him.

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | January 10, 2011 12:30 PM | Report abuse

You mean that you find it ironic that Liberals are reporting that Faux News was spreading Faux News, as usual.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 10, 2011 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Kaddafi, not sure your point.

None of that cancels out the fact Sarah Palin fuels extremist viewpoints.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | January 10, 2011 12:32 PM | Report abuse

"Try getting a Conservative here -- any one of them -- to acknowledge that is even a possibility. Not only that, The Right Wing PC Police insist that such things not even be discussed"

WB is 100% correct.

Fringe Conservatives -- like those who comment here -- are the problem.

The SOLUTION is for moderate Republicans to stand up to Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh because people like Kevin and the rest of the insane rabble here refuse to do so until THEY do.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | January 10, 2011 12:35 PM | Report abuse

This guy in Tucson used a semi automatic. In the 2nd Amendment, other than the "right to keep and bear arms", where does it talk about the right of having a semi automatic weapon?

C'mon right wingers please justify the need of a semi automatic. I know the NRA will start foaming at the mouth about the "slippery slope", but there is no earthly reason why these types of weapons should be available to the general population.

Posted by: filmnoia | January 10, 2011 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Reality Check;

No one knows what set this lunatic off. I doubt if he could even tell us.

Show some respect for the fallen, instead of trying to use their deaths to score political points. That goes for all, on both sides of the political spectrum.

Don't be like this crass buffoon.

From Politicalwire.com

"Bonus Quote of the Day
"But please look into protection for your family. An attempt on you could bring the republic down."

-- Glenn Beck, giving advice to Sarah Palin in the aftermath of the Arizona shootings."

Posted by: Liam-still | January 10, 2011 12:41 PM | Report abuse

filnoia:

because they think the gov't that they hate so much, their own gov't, is going to bear down upon the roads of their houses, first the grunts with their automatics, then the tanks, then the drones...

So, they need, at least, Glocks from Sports Authority. What, you think aren't going to learn from the Taliban and not put up a fight against US GOVT encroachment?

Posted by: Papagnello | January 10, 2011 12:41 PM | Report abuse

[mikefromArlington drooled: "the fact Sarah Palin fuels extremist viewpoints"]

If that was "fact", then you should cite EVIDENCE of Palin's (alleged) extremism. And don't give me the refried political-target-map bilge. The DNCC did the same thing.
http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647

Leftists won't cite EVIDENCE because they can't. They rely on smears and lies.

Moreover, they won't condemn any of the (above cited) EVIDENCE of Leftist extremism from Obama, et.al.

“Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.” [Matthew 23:24]

The AZ shooter was one of your own. Own him, Leftists.

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | January 10, 2011 12:41 PM | Report abuse

hahaha. i knew it. more lies from napolitano

Posted by: 12thgenamerican | January 10, 2011 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Violent imagery has been part and parcel of American politics since the days of George III. We always seem to find new ways of redefining the "wild west". I assume violence has deep roots in human behavior. I will say that a culture fascinated by guns, the West, individualism, etc. isn't going to help it end. I'm afraid it is too much a part of the American psyche.

Hell, I live in Tejas: I don't like seeing gun show signs everywhere because guns freak me out on a basic level. I can appreiate them aesthetically like any piece of craft but there is a whole political culture built up around them that has nothing to do with how they "look".

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | January 10, 2011 12:44 PM | Report abuse

[mikefromArlington spat: "the fact Sarah Palin fuels extremist viewpoints"]

Leftists don't cite "fact". They indulge in hypocritical smears.

Conversely, they won't condemn the (above cited) EVIDENCE of extremist viewpoints from Obama, et.al.

Own the hate. The shooter is one of yours.

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | January 10, 2011 12:45 PM | Report abuse

This guy in Tucson used a semi automatic. In the 2nd Amendment, other than the "right to keep and bear arms", where does it talk about the right of having a semi automatic weapon?

C'mon right wingers please justify the need of a semi automatic. I know the NRA will start foaming at the mouth about the "slippery slope", but there is no earthly reason why these types of weapons should be available to the general population.

Posted by: filmnoia

---------------------

Do you even know what "semi-automatic" means? The typical handgun that millions of Americans keep at home for protection is counted as a semi-automatic weapon. Any gun in which pulling the trigger fires a round and reloads another one, at which point the person needs to pull the trigger again to fire, is semi-automatic. There is nothing all that unusual about this kind of weapon. It's a far cry from a fully automatic weapon.

Posted by: blert | January 10, 2011 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Remember, this is THE DAY AFTER a Democratic representative was shot at point blank range in an attempted assassination:

"""The Nebraska Republican Party felt compelled to remove an image from its website featuring Sen. Ben Nelson's (D) face in red as the bullseye in a target. State GOP Chairman Mark Fahnelson didn't seem happy about having to remove the image -- he said he was responding to "gripes" from Nelson's "Democrat [sic] supporters" -- but he did it anyway."""

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2011_01/027463.php

The Republican Party is disgusting, I don't care how you slice it. These people who cling to gun sights and bullseyes in their political ads are heinous vermin.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | January 10, 2011 12:51 PM | Report abuse

"[mikefromArlington drooled: "the fact Sarah Palin fuels extremist viewpoints"]

If that was "fact", then you should cite EVIDENCE of Palin's (alleged) extremism."

I said she fuels extremist viewpoints and I already gave evidence but since you have been to busy just copying pasting you probably missed the secret service notice I highlighted from during the election of the correlation of Palin's painting Obama as an enemy of this country and threats directed towards Obama's family.

She very much knows what she's doing and doesn't care. It's disgusting and vile.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | January 10, 2011 12:51 PM | Report abuse

All, headline fixed. sorry about the error.

Posted by: Greg Sargent | January 10, 2011 12:54 PM | Report abuse

@ruk: If you show up here, when are you going to try out my WaPo Troll Hunter? What browser are you using, and I'll walk you through.

If you use AIM, I'll give you my AIM name and we could IM each other, and I could walk you through and troubleshoot that way.

I spent a long time getting the names put up at the top and adding an "ignore" button. Based primarily on your complaints. You're going to use this thing if I have to nag you indefinitely. ;)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | January 10, 2011 12:55 PM | Report abuse

@Liam-still: "Bonus Quote of the Day: 'But please look into protection for your family. An attempt on you could bring the republic down.' -- Glenn Beck, giving advice to Sarah Palin in the aftermath of the Arizona shootings."

All right, I condemn Glenn Beck for such shameless, rabble-rousing melodramatic hyperbole.

Okay, generally, I don't do this, but I'm thinking I'm going to have to go with a blanket condemnation of Glenn Beck, because there's just going to be too much to do condemn every specific thing and still get work done during the day.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | January 10, 2011 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Greg, question for you regarding format.

Could you have web designers add a hyperlink at the bottom of the initial blog entry that brings you to the bottom of the comments. Another site littlegreenfootballs implemented a "Jump to bottom" hyperlink and its a HUGE plus for hand held phones, etc as a way to quickly refresh and head to the bottom of the comments.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/37873_Jim_Hoft-_Democrats_Plotted_to_Blame_Tea_Party_for_Slaughter/comments/#ctop

Just an idea to make the blog more streamline. Thanks a million if you implement this feature!

If anyone else that accesses this site from an iphone and such wants to way in on how this would make the page more user friendly be my guest.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | January 10, 2011 1:00 PM | Report abuse

way = weigh before the grammer/spelling SS come and get me!

Posted by: mikefromArlington | January 10, 2011 1:04 PM | Report abuse

-Giffords sent e-mail before shooting calling for 'moderation'-

In the message, obtained by The Associated Press, the Democratic on Friday congratulated Republican Secretary of State Trey Grayson on his new position at Harvard University.

She wrote him: "After you get settled, I would love to talk about what we can do to promote centrism and moderation. I am one of only 12 Dems left in a GOP district (the only woman) and think that we need to figure out how to tone our rhetoric and partisanship down."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2011/01/giffords-sent-e-mail-before-sh.html

Gabby Giffords is a true American Hero.

Posted by: Ethan2010 | January 10, 2011 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Hey Kevin, can you write an Iphone app to block out RFR. :P

Posted by: mikefromArlington | January 10, 2011 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Clicking through images of Jared Lee Loughner’s backyard skull shrine, I’m not seeing a Gadsden flag.

Posted by: EowynR | January 10, 2011 1:14 PM | Report abuse

"The typical handgun that millions of Americans keep at home for protection is counted as a semi-automatic weapon. Any gun in which pulling the trigger fires a round and reloads another one, at which point the person needs to pull the trigger again to fire, is semi-automatic."

I've never fired a gun, nor have ever held one. I see no reason for anyone who is not in law enforcement to even have a semi automatic hand gun. Single action rifles do a fine job in hunting deer and other critters. I say limit it to that. Maybe a lot of these guys with a gun fetish ought to spend more time trying to figure out how to please their partners.

Posted by: filmnoia | January 10, 2011 1:14 PM | Report abuse

@mikeFromArlington:

Alas, no. Someone was working on a port of Greasemonkey to the iPhone, but dropped it (I think it required Jailbreaking your iPhone, anyway), and Apple still keeps control over Safari on the iPhone. If they didn't, Adobe could offer an app that would play Flash media.

I can make it work on Safari on your Mac, though. ;)

"Could you have web designers add a hyperlink at the bottom of the initial blog entry that brings you to the bottom of the comments."

This would be wonderful. I haven't, but I could do this with WaPo Troll Hunter. But, still no good on phones, and less necessary in a regular browser.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | January 10, 2011 1:16 PM | Report abuse

mikefromarlington writes
"The family members were in the recovery waiting area when they started getting txt messages that their daughter/wife had died. ... I don't know what kind of personality you are but if that were me, I'd consider that news horrific."

Sure its horrific. My point wasn't whether the news was horrific or not, it was whether NPR deserves the majority of the blame for the error. They reported what they were told by the sherrif's departmnet. Seems like the onus for the error falls as much on the sherrif's dept as NPR, or other outlets that reported the same news from the same source.

Posted by: bsimon1 | January 10, 2011 1:20 PM | Report abuse

bsimon1, fair enough.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | January 10, 2011 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Greg,

One thing that Jared Loughner seemed to share with other domestic terrorists is a hate and distrust of our government.

I recall the day that the Gadsden flag was hung over the side of the Capitol building during a vote on the floor. The anti-government sentiment encouraged by politicians the last couple of years stirs anger/resentment and puts public servants and government employees in danger.

The politics of distrust needs to be examined in the aftermath of this horrific attack on civil servants and participants.

Posted by: Beeliever | January 10, 2011 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Given that the lunatic has been described by acquaintances as a "left-wing pothead" and "quite liberal", why are they looking for connections to right-wing groups?

Posted by: schizuki | January 10, 2011 1:32 PM | Report abuse

All, a quick look at history shows that calls for "civility" very often prove short lifed indeed:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/01/calls_for_civility_generally_p.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | January 10, 2011 1:37 PM | Report abuse


This Michelle Malkin [biggest hatemonger among them all} is seriously disturbed and projecting wildly:

"Own your seething hate-mongering venom, Leftists."

"Can Leftists imagine a Giffords effigy hung from a noose?

Own the Leftist violent rhetoric and vitriol.
Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst"

Really makes your skin crawl, doesn't it? How much you want to be he'll be the next shooter?

Posted by: fiona5 | January 10, 2011 1:38 PM | Report abuse

@fiona5: "Really makes your skin crawl, doesn't it? How much you want to be he'll be the next shooter?"

Except for having, perhaps, been goaded into it, you sound a lot of like Kadaffi.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | January 10, 2011 1:40 PM | Report abuse

'Maybe a lot of these guys with a gun fetish ought to spend more time trying to figure out how to please their partners."

I doubt if most of them have partners, or anything much with which to please them.

Posted by: fiona5 | January 10, 2011 1:44 PM | Report abuse

In case anyone wants to stand up for good reporting, go search for major bloggers and major Twitter users who promoted this bogus story and leave cites of their claims in comments here:

http://24ahead.com/n/10308

I'll then follow up with them and ask for a retraction.

Posted by: LonewackoDotCom | January 10, 2011 1:48 PM | Report abuse

I see one poster in particular seems to believe he has the inside scoop on the killer's politics.

From what I've seen, no one does. But it doesn't really matter. Whether he was influenced by violent political rhetoric or not doesn't excuse violent political rhetoric. As "unfair" as all of this is to Our Lady of Perpetual Butthurt Sarah Palin, the fact remains that people who don't make inflammatory comments do not find themselves in the position of having to claim they weren't responsible for this type of thing. There's a very good reason for not publicly wishing others harm, that being that it makes you look bad if, after you've publicly wished someone harm, something bad happens to them. This is why responsible people don't do things like that. Because of the potential for blowback that makes you look like an arsehole.

But Sarah Palin is not a responsible person, so instead of taking down the gunsight graphic when the first complaints were raised about it, way back in March 2010 (and ironically, one of those who spoke about it was Gabby Giffords), she left it up until January 8, 2011. Because it pissed off the liberals, which in conservative circles is good enough. It was only after the shooting, when leaving it up became clearly tasteless, that she took it down. Then tried to claim that the gunsights were "surveyor's marks", which certainly could have been clarified way back in March 2010 if it were true. Which it isn't, as is made clear by both her contemporaneous rhetoric ("don't retreat - reload!") and one of her twits after the election.

Now, do I think this guy shot these people because of Sarah Palin's tasteless graphic? I don't know, but I doubt it - though if he had seen it, it certainly would have done nothing other than re-inforce his predisposition.

We all know that violent rhetoric can have violent consequences. None of the conservatives or their media apologists who are now claiming otherwise have any problem with drawing connections between violent videogames, explicit movies or song lyrics, or even two strangers of the same sex getting married to dire consequences for society at large. People aren't influenced by things they see and hear, except for when they are.

Look, you guys have to own your own words and actions. If, in the future, you'd like to not have these types of discussions again, probably the best thing to do would be to stop talking about second-amendment solutions and in general drop the over-the-top rhetoric that's based solely on the notion that only people who meet your criteria are legitimate leaders. If you stop saying crazy inflammatory sh*t, these questions won't come up.

Posted by: JennOfArk | January 10, 2011 2:05 PM | Report abuse

"I doubt if most of them have partners, or anything much with which to please them."


Got Stereotypes?

.

Posted by: bsimon1 | January 10, 2011 2:06 PM | Report abuse

I find it very ironic that this congress-woman was the very same that was listed on Sarah Palin's Sarah-Pac a poster TARGETING various politicians she wanted to dispose of(I use the word dispose lightly).
The poster depicts a USA map complete with 'gun'targets on each state where the said politician lived.

I wonder if she is mouthing off on this day?

Posted by: poppygurl | January 10, 2011 2:09 PM | Report abuse

[fiona5: "Really makes your skin crawl, doesn't it?"]

Leftists who look honestly in the mirror should feel their skin crawl today.

Don't blame the messenger. The above cited evidence of seething hate-mongering venom speaks for itself.

Own it, Leftists.

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | January 10, 2011 2:30 PM | Report abuse

One of the tragedies of history is the fact that Lee Oswald never had the chance to testify in his own defense. I'm not one of these people who believe that the man was some kind of patsy who was framed for killing President Kennedy. I have no doubt that he was the one (and the only one) who pulled the trigger of the Manila Carcana rifle that ended JFK's life. But I have a theory:

Oswald was an extreme left winger - the type of which no longer exists in this country: a committed Communist. I believe that had he been living in New York or Boston or Los Angeles - or even Atlanta - when the president rolled into town, he never would have attempted assassination. But he wasn't in any of those cities. He was living in Dallas, Texas. In November of 1963, Dallas was the right wing capital of the nation. Just a few weeks before the Kennedy shooting, UN Ambassador Adlai Stevenson had been physically attacked and spat on at an appearance in that city.

Lee Oswald's motive for killing John F. Kennedy was not fame and recognition. He vehemently denied having any part in the shooting.

"I DIDN'T KILL ANYBODY, NO SIR!"

That was his story and he was sticking to it! He didn't have to stick to it for very long, though. Forty-eight hours after he was arrested, a single bullet from Jack Ruby's gun forever silenced Lee Harvey Oswald. What could have been his motive? Here's my theory: He killed Kennedy because he really believed he could get away with it. The atmosphere in Dallas, Texas on November 22, 1963 was so politically toxic, Oswald must have assumed that the police and Secret Service would immediately focus on one or more that city's illustrious right wing crackpots.

The extremism of 1963 was pretty much isolated to a few southern cities. Forty-eight years later it's gone national. What happened in Arizona over the weekend is only the beginning. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but America's political discourse has been hijacked by half-wits and crazy people. Their spokespersons make their names by inflaming their clueless masses with the language of hate. That's their job. Then again, I'm not giving away any state secrets here, am I?

http://www.tomdegan.blogspot.com

Tom Degan

Posted by: tomdeganfrontiernetnet | January 11, 2011 7:36 AM | Report abuse

The initial reports of a potential Loughner/American Renaissance connection came from the Huffington Post, not FOX.

Sargent Fail strikes again.

Posted by: TheLastBrainLeft | January 11, 2011 12:12 PM | Report abuse

This episode has exposed the scumbag left for who they are.

Posted by: standard_guy | January 11, 2011 8:34 PM | Report abuse

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