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Posted at 9:43 AM ET, 01/17/2011

MLK day roundup

By Greg Sargent

* Civility sighting! Or...not. Today's Times reports that John Boehner, in describing the health reform law, substituted "job-destroying" for "job-killing," and speculates that this may have been a gesture towards improving the tone.

But a GOP aide emails that this wasn't a gesture or official shift. "We've used 'job-destroying' (as well as 'job-threatening') in the past. I expect they'll all be used going forward," he says.

* And indeed, Boehner just yesterday took note of the Democrats' "job-destroying spending spree," another reminder of the GOP's remarkable message discipline. "Job-killing...job-threatening...job-destroying..."

* Still another poll finds more people want to expand the health law than support full repeal, a finding mirrored by two other recent polls.

This suggests again that while the law clearly remains unpopular, there are multiple reasons why people dislike the law, and that its unpopularity doesn't necessarily translate into support for full repeal.

* Chuck Schumer, clinging to the quaint notion that there should be a policy response to the Arizona shootings, proposes that the military should report it to the FBI for the purposes of background checks when it rejects someone for illicit drug use, as happened with Jared Loughner.

* Relatedly, conservative Senator Tom Coburn claims he's willing to work with Schumer to make sure people who are mentally ill cannot get and use a gun," suggesting that the only conceivable basis for any consensus on gun control would focus only on the mentally ill.

* A fascinating look at the super-charged political atmosphere in Gabrielle Giffords' district.

* Interesting: House Republicans begin saying the burden is on President Obama to detail the spending cuts we'll need to pursue in order to rein in the deficit.

* Tim Pawlenty struggles to justify his absurd posturing against raising the debt ceiling, another reminder of how far to the right the 2012 GOP hopefuls will have to lurch in order to remain even remotely viable.

* As Digby says, Dems are the ones with the leverage in the coming fight over the debt ceiling, so any concessions they make will be ones they wanted to make.

* Macaca redux? Mike Allen reports that George Allen is gearing up to retake his Virginia Senate seat from Jim Webb in 2012, and while it's unclear whether Webb will run for reelection, a rerun of that brutal 2006 campaign could be one of the biggest races in the country.

* Justin Elliott has everything you need to know about the curious case of Tom DeLay, including why he will never spend a day in jail.

* What if the supposed mass effort to "blame" Sarah Palin and the right for the killings never really happened in any widespread or meaningful sense?

* And a note of optimism on Martin Luther King day: Robert Samuelson recalls the wrenching tumult of the 1960s, which included MLK's assassination, and says that if we survived that period of intense polarization, we can surely do so again.

What else is happening?

By Greg Sargent  | January 17, 2011; 9:43 AM ET
Categories:  House Dems, House GOPers, Morning Plum, Senate Dems, Senate Republicans, debt ceiling  
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Comments

Greg, why haven't you banned caothien9?

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 17, 2011 9:53 AM | Report abuse


All these Obama tax increases - all drags on the Economy - a sample is below

PLUS we still don't know how much the 50 States have to RAISE taxes to cover their parts of health care

PLUS we still don't know how much health insurance rates are going to go up - as health insurers slowly realize how much Obama's plan is going to COST - all that gets PASSED ON TO WHOEVER EMPLOYS YOU.


PARTIAL list of Obama taxes


Raise "Haircut" for Medical Itemized Deduction from 7.5% to 10% of AGI($15.2 bil/Jan 2013): Currently, those facing high medical expenses are allowed a deduction for medical expenses to the extent that those expenses exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI). The new provision imposes a threshold of 10 percent of AGI; it is waived for 65+ taxpayers in 2013-2016 only.

Tax on Indoor Tanning Services($2.7 billion/July 1, 2010): New 10 percent excise tax on Americans using indoor tanning salons

Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D($4.5 bil/Jan 2013)

Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike($0.4 bil/Jan 2010): The special tax deduction in current law for Blue Cross/Blue Shield companies would only be allowed if 85 percent or more of premium revenues are spent on clinical services

Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals(Min$/immediate): $50,000 per hospital if they fail to meet new "community health assessment needs," "financial assistance," and "billing and collection" rules set by HHS

Tax on Innovator Drug Companies($22.2 bil/Jan 2010): $2.3 billion annual tax on the industry imposed relative to share of sales made that year.

Tax on Health Insurers($60.1 bil/Jan 2014): Annual tax on the industry imposed relative to health insurance premiums collected that year. The stipulation phases in gradually until 2018, and is fully-imposed on firms with $50 million in profits.

$500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives($0.6 bil/Jan 2013)

Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2(Min$/Jan 2011): Preamble to taxing health benefits on individual tax returns.

Corporate 1099-MISC Information Reporting($17.1 bil/Jan 2012): Requires businesses to send 1099-MISC information tax forms to corporations (currently limited to individuals), a huge compliance burden for small employers

“Black liquor” tax hike(Tax hike of $23.6 billion). This is a tax increase on a type of bio-fuel.

Codification of the “economic substance doctrine”(Tax hike of $4.5 billion). This provision allows the IRS to disallow completely-legal tax deductions and other legal tax-minimizing plans just because the IRS deems that the action lacks “substance” and is merely intended to reduce taxes owed.


Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 9:59 AM | Report abuse


All these Obama tax increases - all drags on the Economy - a sample is below

PLUS we still don't know how much the 50 States have to RAISE taxes to cover their parts of health care

PLUS we still don't know how much health insurance rates are going to go up - as health insurers slowly realize how much Obama's plan is going to COST - all that gets PASSED ON TO WHOEVER EMPLOYS YOU.


PARTIAL list of Obama taxes


Raise "Haircut" for Medical Itemized Deduction from 7.5% to 10% of AGI($15.2 bil/Jan 2013): Currently, those facing high medical expenses are allowed a deduction for medical expenses to the extent that those expenses exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI). The new provision imposes a threshold of 10 percent of AGI; it is waived for 65+ taxpayers in 2013-2016 only.

Tax on Indoor Tanning Services($2.7 billion/July 1, 2010): New 10 percent excise tax on Americans using indoor tanning salons

Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D($4.5 bil/Jan 2013)

Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike($0.4 bil/Jan 2010): The special tax deduction in current law for Blue Cross/Blue Shield companies would only be allowed if 85 percent or more of premium revenues are spent on clinical services

Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals(Min$/immediate): $50,000 per hospital if they fail to meet new "community health assessment needs," "financial assistance," and "billing and collection" rules set by HHS

Tax on Innovator Drug Companies($22.2 bil/Jan 2010): $2.3 billion annual tax on the industry imposed relative to share of sales made that year.

Tax on Health Insurers($60.1 bil/Jan 2014): Annual tax on the industry imposed relative to health insurance premiums collected that year. The stipulation phases in gradually until 2018, and is fully-imposed on firms with $50 million in profits.

$500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives($0.6 bil/Jan 2013)

Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2(Min$/Jan 2011): Preamble to taxing health benefits on individual tax returns.

Corporate 1099-MISC Information Reporting($17.1 bil/Jan 2012): Requires businesses to send 1099-MISC information tax forms to corporations (currently limited to individuals), a huge compliance burden for small employers

“Black liquor” tax hike(Tax hike of $23.6 billion). This is a tax increase on a type of bio-fuel.

Codification of the “economic substance doctrine”(Tax hike of $4.5 billion). This provision allows the IRS to disallow completely-legal tax deductions and other legal tax-minimizing plans just because the IRS deems that the action lacks “substance” and is merely intended to reduce taxes owed.


Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 9:59 AM | Report abuse

RainForestRising,

Don't plagiarize your information. Have the decency to source it:

http://www.bohemianmonk.com/2011/01/the-comperhensive-list-of-tax-hikes-contained-within-obamacare/

Posted by: savetherest | January 17, 2011 10:03 AM | Report abuse

PROPOSAL


A growing number of Americans are dismayed that "President's Day" is too vague - and throws aside the memories of two Presidents - Lincoln and Washington.


And seriously folks, this 3 day weekend is too close to the holidays.

PROPOSAL


1) Move Martin Luther King Day to April - link it to the March on Selma - or the March over the bridge - and have this holiday in April


2) there was some March - Selma or somewhere - that was cancelled - then Martin Luther King had it another day - have Martin Luther King on the day they finally got to have the march after the cancellation


3) BRING BACK WASHINGTON'S BIRTHDAY AND LINCOLN'S BIRTHDAYS IN FULL FORCE

Seriously, two 3-day weekends in February - who wants to fight with that?

At this point, we are losing the tributes to ABRAHAM LINCOLN AND GEORGE WASHINGTON

It is just wrong to have this happen.

"President's Day" is too vague - and it loses all its meaning - and the personalities of the two Greatest Presidents.


THIS MUST BE DONE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.


LET THE FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM FLY !!!

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 10:05 AM | Report abuse

The Obama budget may indeed have some cuts but no where near the $100 billion that Republicans want.

Also, most of the cuts will be in Defense where Republicans may not want to cut.

Things should get interesting...

Posted by: maritza1 | January 17, 2011 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Decency? HA!

Posted by: cao091402 | January 17, 2011 10:07 AM | Report abuse

That communist Ronald Reagan signed MLK into law. Didn't he know it was RIGHT after the HOLIDAYS?!

Why does Ronald Reagan hate RainForestRising?

Posted by: savetherest | January 17, 2011 10:10 AM | Report abuse

~"* Interesting: House Republicans begin saying the burden is on President Obama to detail the spending cuts we'll need to pursue in order to rein in the deficit."~
--------------------------------------------

Interesting indeed. But the fact is, with their power base now firmly rooted in the welfare states, Republicans are as institutionally incapable of cutting federal spending as they are of raising revenues necessary to pay for the spending programs that their constituent states depend on. They've basically locked themselves into a box where all they can do is borrow and spend (and try to blame it on the Democrats).

Posted by: CalD | January 17, 2011 10:10 AM | Report abuse

save the liberal agenda:

Obviously I did not write that outline after taking the last 10 months to read the 2,000 page bill.

By the way, the democrats should have been honest enough to put that list out in January or February when they KNEW what these taxes would look like


INSTEAD, the "transparent" dude HID these taxes from everyone. All we heard after every Committee hearing on the Hill was, "don't worry, this is not the final bill." So Obama was HIDING his true intentions ALL ALONG.


Obama was trying to dodge criticism, but he ended up HALTING PROPER DEBATE ON THE PROVISIONS OF THE HEALTH CARE BILL.

That action by Obama was UNDEMOCRATIC AND the stuff of a third world dictator. It is gross and repulsive.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Save the liberal agenda

You forgot this:

From Ryan Ellis on Friday, January 14, 2011 6:00 AM


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 10:13 AM | Report abuse

RainForestRising,
Now are those your words, or did you find them somewhere else in the internet? I'm confused

Posted by: savetherest | January 17, 2011 10:14 AM | Report abuse

The Obama budget may indeed have some cuts but no where near the $100 billion that Republicans want.

Also, most of the cuts will be in Defense where Republicans may not want to cut.

Things should get interesting...

Posted by: maritza1 | January 17, 2011 10:18 AM | Report abuse

All, I will update you on plans for the overhaul of the comments section this week, as soon as I have a clear sense of the details and timing.

Posted by: Greg Sargent | January 17, 2011 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Save the liberal agenda


These taxes are OBAMA'S TAXES - he wrote them - OWN ALL THESE TAX INCREASES


Want some more? Here:

I would like to list them because Im pretty sure the liberals NEVER read this list of BILLION-DOLLAR tax increase last spring when ALL THIS WAS JAMMED DOWN THE THROATS OF INNOCENT AMERICANS.

Innocent Americans who were LIED TO during by Obama and the democrats all during the 2008 campaign. OBAMA LIED

OBAMA LIED.

Obama lied

Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans($32 bil/Jan 2018): Starting in 2018, new 40 percent excise tax on “Cadillac” health insurance plans ($10,200 single/$27,500 family). For early retirees and high-risk professions exists a higher threshold ($11,500 single/$29,450 family). CPI +1 percentage point indexed.

Hike in Medicare Payroll Tax($86.8 bil/Jan 2013): Current law and changes:
First $200,000
($250,000 Married)
Employer/Employee All Remaining Wages
Employer/Employee
Current Law 1.45%/1.45%
2.9% self-employed 1.45%/1.45%
2.9% self-employed
Obamacare Tax Hike 1.45%/1.45%
2.9% self-employed 1.45%/2.35%
3.8% self-employed
Medicine Cabinet Tax($5 bil/Jan 2011): Americans no longer able to use health savings account (HSA), flexible spending account (FSA), or health reimbursement (HRA) pre-tax dollars to purchase non-prescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin)

HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike($1.4 bil/Jan 2011): Increases additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10 to 20 percent, disadvantaging them relative to IRAs and other tax-advantaged accounts, which remain at 10 percent.

Flexible Spending Account Cap – aka“Special Needs Kids Tax”($13 bil/Jan 2013): Imposes cap of $2500 (Indexed to inflation after 2013) on FSAs (now unlimited). . There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularly cruel and onerous: parents of special needs children. There are thousands of families with special needs children in the United States, and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education. Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington, D.C. (National Child Research Center) can easily exceed $14,000 per year. Under tax rules, FSA dollars can be used to pay for this type of special needs education.

Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers($20 bil/Jan 2013): Medical device manufacturers employ 360,000 people in 6000 plants across the country. This law imposes a new 2.3% excise tax. Exemptions include items retailing for less than $100

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 10:18 AM | Report abuse

I'm confused, did Obama lie?

Posted by: savetherest | January 17, 2011 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Can't wait 'till Obama has a National Holiday and a massive statue of him that straddles the Potomac that can be seen from Richmond.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | January 17, 2011 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Save the liberal agenda:

WHY do the democrats and Obama want to HIDE all these tax increases from the American People???

We certainly didn't hear about most of these TAX INCREASES last spring.


The American People DO NOT want these tax increases


PROPOSAL:


ONLY THE DEMOCRATS pay Obama's tax increases.

The Republicans are off the hook -

How about that for a FAIR DEAL, compromise and bipartisanship? An agreement that we call can agree on.


The democrats ONLY pay these taxes.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 10:22 AM | Report abuse

mikefromarlington,

i think obama should build his statue coming out of the reflecting pool, bigger than washington's...i know that i'm going to donate to the statue from the money the dnc pays me to post on these blogs.

Posted by: savetherest | January 17, 2011 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Liberals

You all really have to come to realize that Obama's major accomplishments were RAISING taxes and Increasing the nation debt by unbelievable amounts.

That is his legacy.

NOW the country has to get RID of all these Obama taxes BEFORE the Economy can start growing properly.

Obama is standing in the way of Economic Growth.

So are all the liberals.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 10:26 AM | Report abuse

me two savetherest. The DNC is paying me handsomely. I should have thousands to donate to the statue when the time comes!

Posted by: mikefromArlington | January 17, 2011 10:27 AM | Report abuse

RainForestRising,

How are those tax increases hidden if you have the information to them? I think its out in the open.

Posted by: savetherest | January 17, 2011 10:28 AM | Report abuse

And a note of optimism on Martin Luther King day: Robert Samuelson recalls the wrenching tumult of the 1960s, which included MLK's assassination, and says that if we survived that period of intense polarization, we can surely do so again.

==

No comparison. Things are much worse now. In the 60s we were polarized but sane.

Posted by: caothien9 | January 17, 2011 10:29 AM | Report abuse


PROPOSAL


A growing number of Americans are dismayed that "President's Day" is too vague - and throws aside the memories of two Presidents - Lincoln and Washington.


And seriously folks, this 3 day weekend is too close to the holidays.


PROPOSAL


1) Move Martin Luther King Day to April - link it to the March on Selma - or the March over the bridge - and have this holiday in April


2) there was some March - Selma or somewhere - that was cancelled - then Martin Luther King had it another day - have Martin Luther King on the day they finally got to have the march after the cancellation


3) BRING BACK WASHINGTON'S BIRTHDAY AND LINCOLN'S BIRTHDAYS IN FULL FORCE

Seriously, two 3-day weekends in February - who wants to fight with that?

At this point, we are losing the tributes to ABRAHAM LINCOLN AND GEORGE WASHINGTON

It is just wrong to have this happen.

"President's Day" is too vague - and it loses all its meaning - and the personalities of the two Greatest Presidents.


THIS MUST BE DONE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.


LET THE FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM FLY !!!


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 10:29 AM | Report abuse

"...plans for the overhaul of the comments section..."

Uh oh. Well, it was interesting while it lasted. People who disagree without attacking each other is an oxymoron, in a way it is inhumane.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 17, 2011 10:30 AM | Report abuse

two = too

Posted by: mikefromArlington | January 17, 2011 10:30 AM | Report abuse

i was going to keep the dnc money hush hush but RainForestRising knows about it, so why hide it anymore?

Posted by: savetherest | January 17, 2011 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Martin Luther King was a REPUBLICAN

The democrats wrote ALL the Jim Crow laws.


Get your HISTORY CORRECT, IDIOTS.


_______________________

Hidden TAX INCREASES - hidden when the bill was passed.

Constructive questions are civil


Mocking and Harassment are NOT CIVIL. This is what I have been saying to Chris Cillizza and the Obama paid trolls for YEARS.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 10:33 AM | Report abuse

* Tim Pawlenty struggles to justify his absurd posturing against raising the debt ceiling, another reminder of how far to the right the 2012 GOP hopefuls will have to lurch in order to remain even remotely viable.

==

Pawlenty's passion for fiscal conservatism gets people killed. He should zip it.

Posted by: caothien9 | January 17, 2011 10:34 AM | Report abuse

RainForestRising,

Nobody called you a racist first time around, nobody is going to call you a racist this time around. If you think that the american people are dismayed with a "vague" presidents day, by all means, do something about it and change it. You have the right.

Posted by: savetherest | January 17, 2011 10:34 AM | Report abuse

LOL. I've got greasmonkey on.

Is Rainforest arguing against MLK day?

Not surprised.

Hey you cretin, you along with others in Congress lost that argument in the 80's and you'll lose it again if you bring it up.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | January 17, 2011 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Greg, republicans message discipline is not all remarkable if there were any degree of push back. Republicans don't mind spending or borrowing as long as its their plans. The 1 billion dollars spent on That virtual fence the 7 trillion on Medicare d no child left behind huge expansions of govt with the creation of DHS on and on. They spoke for a year about 100 billion cuts and They can't do it. Can anyone name a single bill proposed by the speaker or his number 2 that has created an atmosphere for job growth that didn't add to the deficit? They are so full of crap and no amount of discipline will change that

Posted by: osmondbrinson | January 17, 2011 10:38 AM | Report abuse

THANK YOU save the liberals:


Well, I really don't have the INTIMIDATION TACTICS behind me of falsely accusing everyone of RACISM if they do not want my calendar of holidays, right???

There ARE hidden motives of racism, everywhere, right???

Like the Tea Party, they don't really care about the deficit, they just say that because they don't want to say anything racist, right?

Save the Rotting Liberals - isn't that right?

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Looks like we'll have to wait a bit for the release but the data has been turned over to Wikileaks.

Wikileaks given data on Swiss bank accounts.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12205690

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/julian-assange-press-conference-julius-baer-whistleblower-rudolf-elmer-begins

Not a big fan of Wikileaks anarchists releasing classified govts communications, but this is not that.
Let the chips fall where they may.

Posted by: TominColorado | January 17, 2011 10:47 AM | Report abuse

What ever happened to Robert E. Lee's Birthday - that used to be a big holiday.


Robert E. Lee was good enough for Lincoln to ask him to lead the Union armies -


Robert E. Lee has been pushed aside too.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 10:50 AM | Report abuse

RainForestRising,
The only reason your bring up changing MLK day is so people call you racist. Nobody called you a racist. It didnt work. Try something new.

Posted by: savetherest | January 17, 2011 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Tick, tick, tick: The cost of Obamacare is a time bomb


Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/01/tick-tick-tick-cost-obamacare-time-bomb#ixzz1BIsBkSks

Posted by: battleground51 | January 17, 2011 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Krugman on the brazen illogic of the GOP effort to repeal ACA

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/17/opinion/17krugman.html?ref=opinion

Posted by: caothien9 | January 17, 2011 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Good Morning Greg.

We should all celebrate the life of Doctor Martin Luther King, who I consider to have been the greatest, and bravest American of the past century.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Stf, we don't read RFR around here.

Posted by: caothien9 | January 17, 2011 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Mikefrom Arlington

Did you see our discussion last night about how Arlington was unlawfully transfered to Virginia???

The Congressional resolution required it to pass a referendum - the Referendum passed in Alexandria but not Washington DC.


DC can probably go after you for unpaid income taxes.

_______________________________


Fairlington - a good way to solve the financial problems in DC would be to RETRO-RETROCESSION give-back Alexandria and Arlington.

That would increase tax revenues - and improve the lives of everyone.

It might even make the elections more competitive.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Hey!

Got MLK?

Is it really MLK day again??

Seems like only yesterday!

Posted by: battleground51 | January 17, 2011 10:56 AM | Report abuse

RainForestRising,

Robert E. Lee birthday falls on January 19th, i'm afraid that if we celebrate his birthday it will be to close to the the holiday season....at least that was your argument against MLK.

Posted by: savetherest | January 17, 2011 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Why doesn't messaging discipline work for Dems?  I think it may actually reflect some strengths of the party, not just a vulnerability.  Like a lot of the people on this site, I tried thinking of good slogans to characterize the Republicans' effort to repeal healthcare.  None of them--mine or others--felt very satisfactory.  Some bothered me because they felt a little irresponsible and uncivil, such as ones using the word kill or other violent imagery.  

But there's the other point that the Democratic Party is composed of many different constituencies whose views don't get captured well by soundbites and slogans even if there were some message central to disseminate mandatory talking points for everyone.  And Democrats don't like looking stupid and like sheep, which is what a lot of talking points discipline requires.  For better or worse, we're the party of nuance and of ideas that aren't easy to offer in two or three catchy words.

This, of course, has put us at a disadvantage when the Republicans have been able to insinuate their simplistic and often misleading or inaccurate slogans across the media and huge swaths of the political landscape.  I don't see how we can beat them at that game and can hardly imagine the poverty of discourse if that became our real goal.

So what do we do?  I don't really have an answer on this one except to think we need to have more than one catch response if we're going that route.  Let the Anthony Weiners and Alan Graysons of the party keep with their own pithy, hot rhetoric.  Hope for more of Barney Frank's colorful characterizations.  Hope that every segment of the party with a stake in a given issue will find it own effective language to frame the argument. To me, that has more chance of resonating with the people the messages are aimed at than some one size fits all phrase that, of course, doesn't.    

Posted by: AllButCertain | January 17, 2011 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Why doesn't messaging discipline work for Dems?  I think it may actually reflect some strengths of the party, not just a vulnerability.  Like a lot of the people on this site, I tried thinking of good slogans to characterize the Republicans' effort to repeal healthcare.  None of them--mine or others--felt very satisfactory.  Some bothered me because they felt a little irresponsible and uncivil, such as ones using the word kill or other violent imagery.  

But there's the other point that the Democratic Party is composed of many different constituencies whose views don't get captured well by soundbites and slogans even if there were some message central to disseminate mandatory talking points for everyone.  And Democrats don't like looking stupid and like sheep, which is what a lot of talking points discipline requires.  For better or worse, we're the party of nuance and of ideas that aren't easy to offer in two or three catchy words.

This, of course, has put us at a disadvantage when the Republicans have been able to insinuate their simplistic and often misleading or inaccurate slogans across the media and huge swaths of the political landscape.  I don't see how we can beat them at that game and can hardly imagine the poverty of discourse if that became our real goal.

So what do we do?  I don't really have an answer on this one except to think we need to have more than one catch response if we're going that route.  Let the Anthony Weiners and Alan Graysons of the party keep with their own pithy, hot rhetoric.  Hope for more of Barney Frank's colorful characterizations.  Hope that every segment of the party with a stake in a given issue will find it own effective language to frame the argument. To me, that has more chance of resonating with the people the messages are aimed at than some one size fits all phrase that, of course, doesn't.    

Posted by: AllButCertain | January 17, 2011 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Sorry for that double post. I got an error message that indicated it hadn't gone up the first time.

Posted by: AllButCertain | January 17, 2011 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Save the liberals:

Yea, I agree. So you agree that Martin Luther King day should be moved to March - on the Selma March Day.


OK - I meant to say March 21 - Martin Luther King Day


Here is the story:


A week after Reeb's death, March 16, Judge Johnson ruled in favor of the protestors, saying their First Amendment right to march in protest could not be abridged by the state of Alabama:

The law is clear that the right to petition one's government for the redress of grievances may be exercised in large groups . . . . These rights may . . . be exercised by marching, even along public highways.
Williams v. Wallace, 240 F. Supp. 100, 106 (M.D. Ala. 1960).

On March 21, close to 8,000 people assembled at Brown Chapel to commence the trek to Montgomery


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 11:02 AM | Report abuse

savetherest, you were saying? Just wait until DDAWD finishes rounds.

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 17, 2011 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Save the Nation from the liberals:


March 21 the 3rd march started -

it ended on March 25 - and King gave a speech (of course, another speech)


So throw the 3-day weekend in there.


Besides, April may conflict with the Global Warming Celebration Day.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 11:06 AM | Report abuse


What ever happened to Robert E. Lee's Birthday - that used to be a big holiday.


Robert E. Lee was good enough for Lincoln to ask him to lead the Union armies -


Robert E. Lee has been pushed aside too.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 11:08 AM | Report abuse

* Civility sighting! Or...not. Today's Times reports that John Boehner, in describing the health reform law, substituted "job-destroying" for "job-killing," and speculates that this may have been a gesture towards improving the tone.
..............................

Greg,

Since The Republicans have chosen to engage in such tactics; I have something for you to pass along to the Democrats, who are looking for something to brand the Republican Health Care Repeal Act with.

The word is TRAUMA. To be used as in:

The Republican Assault Upon Medical Assistance.

TRAUMA.

Think of all the permutations offshoots of TRAUMA, that the Democrats can then use to hang around the necks of The Republican Repealers.

The Republicans are seeking to Traumatize all Poor Sick Americans. You get the drift.

Pass it on to your Democratic contacts on the Hill and in the White House, but do not give it to Tim Kaine, because that guy is just a potted plant.

TRAUMA

The Republican Assault Upon Medical Assistance.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 11:08 AM | Report abuse

RainForestRising,

Nope, i think MLK is fine right where it is. On his birthday.

I also think you dont care one way or another, you are just trying to bait people to call you a racist. That is why you bring up Robert E. Lee.

I also think you need to find some love in your life. You seem very very very sad.

You copy and paste stuff from all over the internet. Come up with random theories and simply put, you seem disturbed and without much happening in your life. Plum Line is not the only thing out there. Perhaps you are unemployed, perhaps you live with family members that take care of you, i don't know. I suggest you talk to people around you and perhaps go for a walk and breathe the fresh air.

It's ok to hate Obama and everything liberal. But politics isn't everything in life. There is much more to this world than an internet message board.

You will claim that you are fine and happy. Your writing suggest something else, something much more dark and pathetic. If you need help, seek it.

I'm sure you have loved ones, talk to them, if you are all alone, perhaps whatever church you belong to. Bottom line my friend, you need help. Seek it, I wish you the best.

Posted by: savetherest | January 17, 2011 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Chúc mừng năm mới to everyone from Cần Thơ.

Ánd happy birthday to one of the greatest Americans to ever draw breath.

Posted by: caothien9 | January 17, 2011 11:11 AM | Report abuse

Honestly folks

I like the stories around the holidays.

Today's kids lose the George Washington Cherry Tree story

And the stories about Lincoln chopping all those logs - and fighting those rednecks


And Sherman's March to the sea (did you know that when they coined the term "overkill?")


______________________


The Selma March would be a good story -


So BRING BACK WASHINGTON'S BIRTHDAY


BRING BACK LINCOLN'S BIRTHDAY

GIVE ROBERT E. LEE SOMETHING.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Just ignore him, STF. It's better that way.

Posted by: caothien9 | January 17, 2011 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Sybil,

You are in great form today. It is amazing how you manage to limit your myriad personalities to just triple spacing, with all those dozens of different crazy personalities of yours, all banging away on the enter key, at the same time.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 11:17 AM | Report abuse

savetherest--I think the assumption here is that you are rainforest's alter-ego. If so, you seem to be telling us something worrying about your other self, though I grant the possibility of parody.

Posted by: AllButCertain | January 17, 2011 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Save the Nation from the liberals:


I think the sickness lies in the liberals - who are trying to IMPOSE their flawed ideas on the rest of the nation.


Seriously man.


Robert E. Lee - pushed aside


George Washington - pushed aside


Abraham Lincoln who freed the slaves - pushed aside.

All for the guy who tore down the DEMOCRATIC PARTYS MAJOR ACCOMPLISHMENT: THE JIM CROW LAWS.


The democrats even got the Supreme Court to agree that the Jim Crow laws were Constitutional !!!

(sounds like Obama claiming his health care law is constititutional)


Then the democrats got their own paramilitary group to enforce the Jim Crow laws - they called it the KKK.


The the democrats started allowing the KKK to elect DELEGATES TO THE DNC NATIONAL CONVENTIONS.


The KKK sent BLOCKS of delegates to the DNC National Conventions.

OH, yea - the democrats are THE GREATEST, AREN'T THEY.


_________________________

And get this- the democrats run around wild every year BLAMING THE REPUBLICANS FOR THE JIM CROW LAWS.


What a laugh.


Martin Luther King was a REPUBLICAN.


______________


After ALL THOSE LIES, you have the nerve to talk about me the way you do???


You need help, and probably alot of drugs too.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 11:21 AM | Report abuse

"A former Swiss bank executive said on Monday that he had given the WikiLeaks founder, Julian Assange, details of more than 2,000 prominent individuals and companies that he contends engaged in tax evasion and other possible criminal activity."

We err when we talk of the Swiss health care system, or that of any other little rich country that does not police the world. The sheer size of the 50 state crazy quilt that is the American health care system is dare I say it, exceptional, just like America's military might.

We have made the decision to keep on growing the health industry, more or less as it is. Republicans want to grow it the old fashioned way, utterly out of control. Democrats want to squeeze the balloon here and there, so it grows in ways we can imagine could be sustainable [not facetious emoticon].

Maybe in this way we can starve the beast, I can think of a lot worse things to spend money on and besides, we need the jobs.

"Steven P. Jobs, the chief executive of Apple, said he needs to “focus on my health,” a year and a half after his return from a liver transplant."

Posted by: shrink2 | January 17, 2011 11:22 AM | Report abuse

* Civility sighting! Or...not. Today's Times reports that John Boehner, in describing the health reform law, substituted "job-destroying" for "job-killing," and speculates that this may have been a gesture towards improving the tone.
..............................

Greg,

Since The Republicans have chosen to engage in such tactics; I have something for you to pass along to the Democrats, who are looking for something to brand the Republican Health Care Repeal Act with.

The word is TRAUMA. To be used as in:

The Republican Assault Upon Medical Assistance.

TRAUMA.

Think of all the permutations of TRAUMA, that the Democrats can then use to hang around the necks of The Republican Repealers.

The Republicans are seeking to Traumatize all Poor Sick Americans. You get the drift.

Pass it on to your Democratic contacts on the Hill and in the White House, but do not give it to Tim Kaine, because that guy is just a potted plant.

TRAUMA

The Republican Assault Upon Medical Assistance.

Do not let The Republican Repealers inflict TRAUMA on millions of Poor Sick Americans.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 11:23 AM | Report abuse


Save the Nation from the liberals:

I think the sickness lies in the liberals - who are trying to IMPOSE their flawed ideas on the rest of the nation.

Seriously man.

Robert E. Lee - pushed aside

George Washington - pushed aside

Abraham Lincoln who freed the slaves - pushed aside.

All for the guy who tore down the DEMOCRATIC PARTY'S MAJOR ACCOMPLISHMENT: THE JIM CROW LAWS.

The democrats even got the Supreme Court to agree that the Jim Crow laws were Constitutional !!!

(sounds like Obama claiming his health care law is constititutional)

Then the democrats got their own paramilitary group to enforce the Jim Crow laws - they called it the KKK.

The the democrats started allowing the KKK to elect DELEGATES TO THE DNC NATIONAL CONVENTIONS.

The KKK sent BLOCKS of delegates to the DNC National Conventions.

OH, yea - the democrats are THE GREATEST, AREN'T THEY ?

_________________________


And get this- the democrats run around wild every year BLAMING THE REPUBLICANS FOR THE JIM CROW LAWS.

What a laugh.

Martin Luther King was a REPUBLICAN.
______________


After ALL THOSE LIES, you have the nerve to talk about me the way you do???

You need help, and probably alot of drugs too.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 11:24 AM | Report abuse

If people didn't respond to SavetheRainforest, would he make a sound?

(thnks to Greasemonkey)

Posted by: mikefromArlington | January 17, 2011 11:25 AM | Report abuse

In honor of Doctor Martin Luther King.

"U2 - Pride (In The Name Of Love) "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHcP4MWABGY&ob=av2em

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 11:30 AM | Report abuse

CIVIL RIGHTS


The FIRST Federal Civil Right legislation was passed by US Grant - a Republican.

The democrats then spent the next 90 YEARS undermining that law - and subverting it.

The democrats passed laws to subvert Grant's Republican Civil Rights Act - and THE DEMOCRATS LYNCHED BLACKS WHO DID NOT COOPERATE.
_________________________


Somehow, the democrats of today LOVE to blame the Republicans for what the DEMOCRATS DID.

AND somehow the democrats WANT CREDIT for Civil Rights - like Lincoln freeing the slaves was meaningless.

(For all you democrats out there, Lincoln was a Republican.)

____________________


Martin Luther King was a Republican.


What the democrats want you to BELIEVE IS A SET OF DECEPTIONS AND LIES.


Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 11:30 AM | Report abuse

The NY Times article on the alleged efforts to blame Republicans for the Arizona massacre was pretty enlightening. I began to wonder as the week went on why almost all the references to Liberal attacks either referenced Krugman or no source at all. Not suprisingly the explanation by the NYT is that there were few other options.

What the NYT article failed to take into account was the argument of the Right that any call for civility derived from blaming the right for the murders. Anyway, I particularly liked the quote from Olberman that was in the article.

To move on here is a quote from JFK that addresses civility:
"Let us begin anew,'' he said, "remember on both sides that civility is not a sign of weakness, and sincerity is always subject to proof. Let us never negotiate out of fear. But let us never fear to negotiate.''

Posted by: ashotinthedark | January 17, 2011 11:30 AM | Report abuse

But if we're still trying for slogans, Greed Before Health Act?

Posted by: AllButCertain | January 17, 2011 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Blame the Republicans for the Arizona mass killings.


.... just like the democrats blame the Republicans for the Jim Crow era and all those lynchings of the blacks carried out by the democrats....


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Those liberals who claim we can just "tweak" ObamaCare are wrong. The whole pretense of ObamaCare goes against
Free market Solutions.
ObamaCare believes government takeover of healthcare is the Only solution; ObamaCare is about our government MANDATING that every American buy healthcare;
Republicans want to use free-market solutions to Solve healthcare/insurance problems.
ObamaCare can't be tweaked, because the pretense is wrong.
Democrats: government takeover
Republicans: free-market solutions

Posted by: ohioan | January 17, 2011 11:36 AM | Report abuse

TRAUMA is the branding that Democrats should use.

The Republicans Assault Upon Medical Assistance.

TRAUMA has the punch and impact, to combat the Republicans Orwellian Branding Tactics.

We are not looking for a whisper; we are looking for a shout, to be heard about the Republicans' roar.

TRAUMA is the word, and TRAUMA is the branding.
The word is a perfect acronym for defending the rights of all Americans to receive Medical Care, and no one should be allowed to inflict TRAUMA on millions of Poor Sick Americans.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 11:40 AM | Report abuse

REMEMBER

The democrats passed the Jim Crow laws.


The democrats defended the Jim Crow laws and got the Supreme Court to say they were Consititutional.

(not much unlike Obama defending the health care law)


The democrats were ALIGNED with the KKK.


The democrats allowed the KKK to send blocks of delegates to the DNC National Conventions.


The democrats FOUGHT against Civil Rights legislation with filibusters in the US Senate.

_____________________


AND the democrats are the ones who LYNCHED BLACKS during the Jim Crow era.


___________


And the democrats will sit here and say they are lilly-white and they will ATTEMPT TO MAKE YOU THINK THE REPUBLICANS ARE THE BAD, BAD GUYS.


What a joke.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Shrink2:

I think it is incorrect to state that the "Republicans want to grow it the old fashioned way, utterly out of control"
I didn't memorize the Rep health ins reform plan at the time but they have one and I like what I saw: intrastate competition, portability, no denial for pre-existing etc.

Nonetheless, if Obamacare's individual mandate withstands courts' scrunity it will probably good for me.
I'm early fifties, want to retire and consult part-time and if you force all the healthy young ones into the pool it will reduce my rates.
Plus, I'm well off enough to travel and pay cash for denied procedures like the well-off Europeans do.

Posted by: TominColorado | January 17, 2011 11:41 AM | Report abuse

REMEMBER Save your Brain

The democrats passed the Jim Crow laws.

The democrats defended the Jim Crow laws and got the Supreme Court to say they were Consititutional.

(not much unlike Obama defending the health care law)

The democrats were ALIGNED with the KKK.

The democrats allowed the KKK to send blocks of delegates to the DNC National Conventions.

The democrats FOUGHT against Civil Rights legislation with filibusters in the US Senate.

_____________________


AND the democrats are the ones who LYNCHED BLACKS during the Jim Crow era.
___________

And the democrats will sit here and say they are lilly-white and they will ATTEMPT TO MAKE YOU THINK THE REPUBLICANS ARE THE BAD, BAD GUYS.


What a joke.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Paul Ryan said on TV, during the Health Care Reform debate, that his Republican Party should have reformed health-care when they were in power.

So where is his health care reform solutions, or the Republicans solutions now? Clearly Paul Ryan was just lying to the American People, when he said that they would make sure to offer solutions, if they were given a second chance.

He was lying then, and the Weeping Boehnerites are now doing what they have always done for their Insurance Industry Puppet Masters.


TRAUMA is the branding that Democrats should use.

The Republicans Assault Upon Medical Assistance.

TRAUMA has the punch and impact, to combat the Republicans Orwellian Branding Tactics.

We are not looking for a whisper; we are looking for a shout, to be heard above the Republicans' roar.

TRAUMA is the word, and TRAUMA is the branding.
The word is a perfect acronym for defending the rights of all Americans to receive Medical Care, and no one should be allowed to inflict TRAUMA on millions of Poor Sick Americans.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 11:50 AM | Report abuse

How can any legislation be more job killing than tax cuts that encourage off shoring of jobs???

Why do the democrats let them get away with this stuff? Where is the fight? Where is their defense of their legislation?

Posted by: soapm | January 17, 2011 11:51 AM | Report abuse

soapm

the democrats are too busy sending out emails falsely accusing Sarah Palin, the housewife, of inciting mass killings.


LOL


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 11:55 AM | Report abuse

soapm

The democrats are too busy devising smear campaigns.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 11:58 AM | Report abuse

soapm


the democrats are too busy sending out emails designed to lie about the Tea Party and its positions.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 12:00 PM | Report abuse

soapm


the democrats are too busy twisting people's words around and falsely accusing them of RACISM


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Soapm


I can go on-and-on telling you what the democrats are doing instead of governing properly, but you get the idea.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 12:06 PM | Report abuse

@ liam

I like it we can even add to it

the Republicans assault on middle class Americans

Posted by: osmondbrinson | January 17, 2011 12:06 PM | Report abuse

@ liam

I like it we can even add to it

the Republicans assault on middle class Americans

Posted by: osmondbrinson | January 17, 2011 12:07 PM | Report abuse

What else?

Go Red Sox!

I will be away for awhile, partly because I know what is coming from the Obama Administration and I won't have anything constructive to say about it.

Keep the faith.

Posted by: wbgonne | January 17, 2011 12:11 PM | Report abuse

I'm going to be taking leave of PL at least for now. I might or might not be back if things improve with Greg's promised overhaul, depending on, e.g., whether it allows blocking of malicious trolls like caothien, wbgonne, and DDAWD.

But for now it simply isn't healthy to try to be part of "discussions" or debates that are routinely debased by such people, whose only real goal in life appears to be to spread their own poison and hatred. It is apparent, as Scott and tao have said, that Greg will do nothing about it, like showing people like caothien the door. Just a week ago he was preaching the need to police our own sides' rhetoric. That was so last week.

Aside from the vile insults of their sort, the last several threads again illustrate why so much of the discussion is pointless anyway.

There's the 2d Am discussion, wherein the left keeps reasserting ad nauseum the claim that an individual right to keep and bear arms is contrary to the plain text of
"the first 14 words," and the bogus claim, derived from Michael Bellisles, that private gun ownership was unknown in the 18th century. It's been pointed out many times in these discussions that the "first 14 words," as a simple grammatical matter, state a purpose, not a restriction, and that the second clause protects a right of "the People," not of "the militia" and not dependent on "militia" membership. (Logical structure: A depends on B which depends on C, which therefore shall not be infringed.) And it's been pointed out that Bellisles' "reserach" was exposed as one of the worst academic frauds in history.

But it makes no difference to liberals. The "militia" trope is a article of faith, and the counters to it are simply ignored. They never address the actual grammatical structure of the 2d, or "the People" in the operative clause. They take Bellisles' historical nonsense to be --Rather-like -- fake but accurate. Read Heller and McDonald. Case closed.

Then there was the renewed the claim that the Iraq War was undertaken to enrich Dick Cheney and his supposed and unnamed Halliburton "cronies" -- another hoary PL trope that just gets reasserted over and over, despite its definitive disproof years ago.

Clawrence, good luck with that one. I posted a link to the liberal Factcheck.org, what must be close to a year ago, conclusively finding those charges to be false. But this is another article of faith to the left. The facts literally don't matter. Dick Cheney is a bad, bad man. That's all the evidence they need.

And after these talking points are reasserted for the umpteeumpth time, it's time for the liberals again to denounce conservatives for epistemic closure, for just repeating the same arguments and not considering evidence, for groupthink, for being Beckbots, etc. All very tired stuff. All very calcified.

And all providing no compelling reason to encounter the excrement hurled by the caothien et al. If things get cleaned up somehow, I might return.

Posted by: quarterback1 | January 17, 2011 12:12 PM | Report abuse

@Liam You sir get the prize for the great link of the day!!!!!!!!!!

Being like you, of Irish descent, I must confess I am proud of Bono's talent and what he has done with his life as a "rock star" And you did pick the perfect song for MLK day. If any of you doubt simply look up the lyrics to Pride(In the Name of Love)

@Tom "I'm early fifties, want to retire and consult part-time"

You are incredibly lucky Tom. If like me you were in your early 60's you'd be hosed by the G.W. Bush failure to do DIDDELY when he was Pres and had the house and Senate....And so Tom instead of like you dreaming about retiring early my wife and I, both professionals, statistically in the upper middle class are forced to work several years beyond our planned retirement. Health care is a big reason.
We own a small business and after using brokers, internet..etc...availing ourselves of our "free market" choices we are stuck paying $23,000 a year in premiums with $4,000 deductibles across the board, meaning a simple kidney stone added another $5,000 to that bill a year ago. BTW my wife and I are both very blessed to be extremely healthy with no preexisting conditions. We do not smoke, drink only socially and workout 3-5X a week along with a couple of Yoga classes.

We did what our parents taught us...worked hard...saved and invested..diversified..a 1/3 in the market managed by a professional, 1/3 real estate managed by me, I am a broker, 1/3 personal assets such as a second vacation home..and 40% of that went poof in the Great Bush Recession.

Yeah I have some real warmth for the R's!

Meanwhile to add insult to injury...anytime an R says anything about jobs or job killing they reveal they have no shame. They simply do not get it.

Here's the most accurate description..
The JOB KILLING/EUTHANIZING/DESTROYING REPUBICAN PARTY.

Anybody care for some facts...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_created_during_U.S._presidential_terms

We've already heard how G.W. Bush created virtually no jobs.. .0 jobs created his first four years .02% job growth in his final two years. BUT THIS IS A PATTERN OF R PRESIDENTS. Do facts not matter.
Hit the link and look for yourselves.

Obama was handed the worst disaster since FDR...obviously when you take office with jobs disappearing at the alarming rate the Bushies left behind you start from behind the 8 ball...but let's see what happens in the next two years...he deserves at least a full term....Bush couldn't create a job in 8 years!

Posted by: rukidding7 | January 17, 2011 12:15 PM | Report abuse

After President Obama's great speech in Tucson, it has been compared and contrasted to other great speeches, that were given, by previous leaders, such As Lincoln at Gettysburg, or Reagan, after the shuttle disaster.

One speech that was given without any preparation, on a moment's notice, appears to have been overlooked.

On this day commemorating Dr. King, it is appropriate to draw attention to the way Robert Kennedy came out and informed the crowd waiting to hear him speak, off the death of Dr. King.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6mxL2cqxrA

It may have been the best improvised address, given at the moment of such a wrenching tragedy, that any American leader has ever given.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 12:15 PM | Report abuse

QB1: Hate to see you go.

When a man makes up his mind without evidence, no evidence disproving his opinion will change his mind. — Robert A. Heinlein, 1978

Posted by: TominColorado | January 17, 2011 12:17 PM | Report abuse

But if QB really does leave I may be back sooner just to celebrate. Is there anything more ridiculous than a troll with feigned hurt feelings? I think all the rest of you Con Trolls should fake outrage with Greg and remove yourselves over to Red State where you belong.

Greens in 2012! (They're good for you!)

Posted by: wbgonne | January 17, 2011 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Not hurt feelings, you moron (woebegone). That you don't get that is exactly the problem with you.

Tom, there's a great group of conservatives commenting here now, including you, and a group of decent if usually not-very-open-minded liberals. So it's too bad the nuts have the run of the place, but that's obviously how Greg likes it. You are a great addition. Keep it up if can stomach the company.

For me, I don't and can't use Trollhunter, for reasons that don't matter, and at this point I'm not going to spend time trying scroll past the creeps who do little but shoot poison arrows. When they can start "joking" about my kids in vile ways, that's something I can't stomach. And Greg is, frankly, a coward and hypocrite about these matters.

Posted by: quarterback1 | January 17, 2011 12:30 PM | Report abuse

The GOP is about to pass a "people-killing" health care repeal. Nearly 40,000 Americans would die each year because of a lack of access to medical care under the GOP's repeal. Think about that...
http://www.sunstateactivist.org/ssablog/

Posted by: parkerfl1 | January 17, 2011 12:30 PM | Report abuse

QB1:
Instead of leaving, how about just take a break and lurk for awhile.
I understand how comments about kids would break through even the thick skin one needs to have in the internet fray.
Thanks, Tom

Posted by: TominColorado | January 17, 2011 12:41 PM | Report abuse

I'm wIth you QB1. Reccomend another sites for jousting? Godspeed.

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | January 17, 2011 12:43 PM | Report abuse

in response to this:
================
Interesting indeed. But the fact is, with their power base now firmly rooted in the welfare states, Republicans are as institutionally incapable of cutting federal spending as they are of raising revenues necessary to pay for the spending programs that their constituent states depend on. They've basically locked themselves into a box where all they can do is borrow and spend (and try to blame it on the Democrats).

============

got proof of your underlying contention concerning the 'welfare" states? I'd be interested in reading it.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | January 17, 2011 12:49 PM | Report abuse

qb:

Hope you return at some point. If you feel like it, you can find my e-mail here. Wouldn't mind hearing from you.

http://theamericanexpatinuk.blogspot.com/

Posted by: ScottC3 | January 17, 2011 12:50 PM | Report abuse

For cripes sake! QB has been on his Grand Exit tour for weeks. If he is going, then why the hell doesn't he just go. No one is forcing him to go, and no one is stopping him from going.

It is starting to look like his farewell tour will last even longer than the Judds' and Cher's perpetual farewell tours.

Even Narcissus would by now, have started to advise QB to get over himself.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Scott:

You on expat assignment in UK?
I did 8 yrs in Northern Europe.

Sounds like you and I are intimately familiar with the glories and brotherhood nationalized health care and socialism.

Posted by: TominColorado | January 17, 2011 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Tom,TMW, Scott,

It's a health or balance break, I suppose not too unlike what ruk took. When the lowlife from Vietnam went where he went, and I thought, "if he were within reach, this would get physical right now," I knew something had to happen. If Greg/Wapo do something to clean up the manure or at least make it possible to avoid it, I'll probably start participating again. I'll do some lurking and keep up on you guys in the meantime.

You guys are all great, as are Kevin (though a bit of a backslider : )), tao, Brigade, and probably others I'm forgetting. Even some of the "dark side" are great.

Greg just has to do something to restore some minimal sanity.

Posted by: quarterback1 | January 17, 2011 1:01 PM | Report abuse

let me offer a translation of this, from Mr Sargent's liberalese to plain english:
================
Tim Pawlenty struggles to justify his absurd posturing against raising the debt ceiling, another reminder of how far to the right the 2012 GOP hopefuls will have to lurch in order to remain even remotely viable.
=============

"No power on earth can prevent the Democrats from spending our money. The Americans who object to the spending in DC should just shut up because it takes too much effort to marginalize all of you. We can only do a "macaca" or a "palin did it" once in a while, so those of you stupid enough to think that government spending can be curtailed should show civility by simply being out of sight."

Did I get that about right, Mr Sargent?

Posted by: skipsailing28 | January 17, 2011 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Scott, I will drop you a note from my home email.

(Liam, your nasty side is much less flattering. Sorry bout your Bears.)

Posted by: quarterback1 | January 17, 2011 1:06 PM | Report abuse

QB. The Bears won.

What the hell is the matter with you.

You are not Greg's boss. Either go or stay. It makes no difference to me, but you keep trying to have it both ways. You declare that you are out of here, and then you keep on posting here.

I

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Tom:

""You on expat assignment in UK?""

I was. Spent almost 8 years there. Left in the summer of '06, which is why that blog has not been updated since then.

""Sounds like you and I are intimately familiar with the glories and brotherhood nationalized health care and socialism.""

Indeed. That is why I find Bernie's pontifications on how much people in Britain love the NHS to be so laughable.

Posted by: ScottC3 | January 17, 2011 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Yes, Obama lied. He buried new taxes against the middle class in the ObieCare bill.

Posted by: illogicbuster | January 17, 2011 1:20 PM | Report abuse

What could be causing the sudden demise of birds?

Red Wing Blackbirds fall out of the sky.

Flocks of Doves suddenly die in Italy;

And on Saturday; a flock of Ravens die in Pittsburg, and scores of Falcons dropped dead in Atlanta.

Then on Sunday; in Chicago; scores of Seahawks all dropped dead, after laying one big egg.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 1:26 PM | Report abuse

I first began lurking here in October thanks to a recommendation from a "Fixista".

I will miss QB1.

Look, even The One Whose Only Purpose is to disrupt sometimes has something to offer. There were three of his kind at "The Fix". Some of you will remember Mr. Livingston, who was being pursued by DOD microwave weapons, and whose purpose was to redirect readers to his blog. BTW, there was a time when The One here tried to redirect folks to HIS blog. I kid you not.

I hope the new format does not interfere with TH. I would continue to enjoy the PL more if it does not suffer the fate of "The Fix".

On topic - I attended a live sermon by MLK in the early 60s. He was mesmerizing, but very long winded. I once was told by a Methodist pastor that "your average Methodist has an attention span of 18 minutes, so a 17 minute sermon is perfection." That was not MLK's denomination, of course.

I am remembering him, and my own peripheral involvement in the Civil Rights Movement while I attended college, today.

We survived those divisions, and in many ways healed. This is a hopeful day.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | January 17, 2011 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Liam,

No I am not Greg's boss. I am just one of the commenters who keeps his blog and his job going.

And you aren't my boss. Sorry You are upset that I decided to explain to others what I am doing. You probably shouldn't have read it if you didn't care. I meant your Bears' facing the Packers next; didn't finish the sentence. Stay nasty.

Posted by: quarterback1 | January 17, 2011 1:34 PM | Report abuse

quarterback1, let me know if you find a better place to post:

clawrence3@gmail.com

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 17, 2011 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Scott:

Wrt UK-NHS, the Brits I knew went to India or the Carribean for the things that either NHS would not cover or that the waiting time would be risky on. But they were upper-middle income or more.

Posted by: TominColorado | January 17, 2011 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Liam,

No I am not Greg's boss. I am just one of the commenters who keeps his blog and his job going.

And you aren't my boss. Sorry You are upset that I decided to explain to others what I am doing. You probably shouldn't have read it if you didn't care. I meant your Bears' facing the Packers next; didn't finish the sentence. Stay nasty.

Posted by: quarterback1 | January 17, 2011 1:35 PM | Report abuse

That Tim Pawlenty is one hell of a defict hawk. He is now talking the talk, but as Governor of Minn, he left the state with a huge annual deficit. He added billions to the state deficits, when he was in charge.

He is like that Paul Ryan Republican from Wisconsin, who claims to have great ideas on reforming health care, only when he is not in any position to do so.

Pawlenty is all for not raising the national debt ceiling, when he is not any position to do anything at all about it. When it was the Gov. of Minn. he did not do anything to solve their ever expanding annual budget deficits.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 1:36 PM | Report abuse

quarterback

It is clear that Greg's enforcement of the clear Washington Post rules are slants against the Conservatives.

The liberals usually get a free pass. The liberals are guilty of dozens of "ad hominem" attacks which are clear violations - and yet Greg Sargent has done nothing.

Even worse, Greg Sargent appears at times to be in violation of the Washington Post's published rules.


Greg's enforcement falls heavily on the Conservatives - with no reason.

When asked for rules, Greg has made up his own rules - when pressed for precise rules, Greg refuses to clarify his vague rules - because he knows perfectly well that the liberals would have to be banned before the Conservatives.

Greg has even said he wants to "whack a troll."

Isn't that a death threat? Seriously, "whack" is violence.

So, not only does Greg not enforce the rules against liberals - but Greg threatens violence against his own readers.

Then Greg goes on to call the Tea Party "rubes." I wonder if the editors of the Washington Post have approved that.

__________________


I guess we have two more years of this nonsense from the liberals.

After that, Obama will be out of office, and Congress will be firmly in the hands of the Republicans.


Only then will the ADULTS in the democratic party emerge and speak up - they will tell the liberals who have acted like such children that they have damaged the democratic party beyond repair.


I have to tell you - there is a really good chance that the childishness of the liberals has destroyed the democratic party for good - and another party will emerge in its place.

The younger generation wants little to do with all this nonsense - especially when they realize that Obama's policies have HURT THEIR JOB PROSPECTS.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 1:39 PM | Report abuse

See folks, I am keeping QB around.

Your welcome. Ain't civility grand!

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 1:41 PM | Report abuse

From Politicalwire.com

Support for Health Care Repeal Fades
As House Republicans prepare for a Wednesday vote to repeal the new health care law, a new Associated Press-GfK poll finds just 25% favor complete repeal.

Among Republicans, support for repeal has also dropped sharply, from 61% after the elections to 49% now.

...........................

Some one needs to conduct an investigation as to why more and more Republicans are in favor of "killing jobs"(Snark alert for those who do not understand when they are being lampooned; AKA Tea Party Republicans)

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 1:46 PM | Report abuse

When Obama doesn't cower in awe at Cantor's demand that Obama cut spending, just what will the Republicans do?

Obama needs to send in a realistic budget, last years plus adjustments and proposal for stimulus funding, paid for as much by Federal Highway Funds as possible on highway work and other funding for power grid and municipality infrastructure upgrades and repairs. He can offer, at the same time, some tax increase, perhaps in the form of a revenue tariff increase.

When it gets to the House, the democrats can caucus on their own and mark up that budget for voting. Since they can't call hearings they will have to do the mark ups on their own experience, but by July they need to have a fully marked up budget ready to go.

The republicans, faced with the Obama budget, will declare it DOA, (They have to do that because that's what the democrats did to Reagan.) Then they will put budget consideration aside and argue some great Republican idea like opening up Florida waters to drilling. Nothing will get done, except that every so often the republicans will complain that Obama won't offer to cut spending.

Come July the democrats can begin bombarding Boehmer to get Congress acting on the budget, and offer their own mark up for a vote. Gridlock will ensue as the Stalwarts go head to head with the Teasers over what is wrong with the Obama budget, and still nothing will get done.

Eventually, late in October, it will occur to the Republicans that they have nothing to show for their first year in charge, and they will get busy blaming the Democrats, who can again offer their budget for a vote. Still nothing will get done and Paul Ryan will again get to write the Budget of the United States.

And so forth.

All those great Republican plans and ideas we keep hearing about at work.

Posted by: ceflynline | January 17, 2011 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Quarterback

I want to remind you and everyone that Cao has been on the Fix for about 3 years.

During that time, Chris Cillizza did virtually nothing about him.


That is why I just post what I do - get my thoughts through the noise - and go on without much caring about the nonsense on the blog.


I want to remind everyone of something else.

In 2008, there were 8-10 PAID BLOGGERS FROM THE OBAMA CAMPAIGN ON - acting just like Cao - they were mocking and harassing everyone. Literally, once someone's comment appeared, the Obama people would have some harassing comment or snide remark posted within a few minutes.


The Obama people were working in shifts.

They were at an office at Michigan and Wacker in Chicago - harassing everyone they could on EVERY blog they could - they were funded with MILLIONS IN QUESTIONABLE money that Obama got over the internet.


Everyone is aware that simple controls can determine if credit cards are appropriate under Federal Campaign laws - for instance, whether a credit card was from overseas, - THESE SIMPLE CONTROLS WERE TURNED OFF BY THE OBAMA CAMPAIGN.


One has to wonder if the credit card transactions exceeded the upper limit of personal contributions PER ELECTION - if one added them together.

DID Obama add up ALL the contributions from everyone - LIKE HE WAS REQUIRED BY FEDERAL LAW, and make sure ALL contributors were under their PER ELECTION limits???


Few people who have looked into this believe so.

HOWEVER, there were the millions of dollars of tv ads - and the OBAMA PAID TROLLS ON THE INTERNET

That Obama campaign cash was spent.


All pretty illegitimate.


If Obama wanted to run, he should have kept his word, and stayed WITHIN THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE SYSTEM, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Over the weekend, QB demanded that Greg either ban that Cao guy, or else ban him. QB declared that he was not going to leave, but he was going to force Greg to either ban that Cao guy, or ban him.

I thought that was the strangest ultimatum anyone had issued since Oscar Wilde said that either that wallpaper goes, or he must.

The wallpaper survived.

QB. Just ignore that Cao guy. He is not worth fretting over.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 1:54 PM | Report abuse

RainForestRising,
The only reason your bring up changing MLK day is so people call you racist. Nobody called you a racist. It didnt work. Try something new.
-------------------------------------------------------
On this blog, no one calls RFR anything. RFR is lucky he has you responding to him. Almost everyone has him blocked on the Troll Hunter and the rest just skip by him. When you get tired of poking at RFR, you'll block him too. We've all been through the teasing phase, including me.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 17, 2011 1:56 PM | Report abuse

The Republicans Assault On Medical Assistance.Acronym TRAUMA.

The lives and homes of millions of poor sick Americans are going to be put at risk by John Boehner; The Republican Party's Weeping TRAUMA Queen!

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 2:00 PM | Report abuse

@Q.B.

Please do not misconstrue this. You are an online acquaintance with whom I've jousted fairly vigorously in the past. We've had our differences...obviously we'll continue to have many differences but I always read your posts and when so moved feel free to respond to them.

And so I'm not encouraging you to leave. I will say however that my two month hiatus did bring some "balance" to my thought process. I had gotten sucked into the personal attacks and felt the need to respond in kind. That is not really my basic personality. And so while I respect folks right to post as they wish I realized that for me to engage in such vitriol and mean spirtedness was cognitive dissonance. It literally was making me unhappy...and I thought...WTF...on a blog...why am I allowing this to happen to me?

Hopefully you won't need two months like me Q.B. :-) Hopefully you'll be able to return as soon as Greg gets his fixes implemented. In the meantime best of health to you and your family. Hope the job doesn't keep you on the road too much and you get some more balance with your home life as well. I know it must be awful missing your family while you out there slogging around the country.

At any rate good luck. I must say that whenever I've approached you and Scott without malice or vitriol you guys have always responded respectfully to me. That is appreciated...as well as Brigades decency in recognizing which posters like to play "rough" (as he calls it) and which do not like me, lmsinca, or 12Bar.

@Mark in Austin

I echo your 1:30PM post completely. And let me add IMHO you are one of the top posters we've gotten from the Fix. Your legal background informs us, and your measured responses help keep civility and decorum. You are a most welcome addition.

@Greg IMO You are a pro...you know my respect for your journalistic integrity...while I respect and like Q.B. I do not agree with his or Scott's assessment of you. Having once worked in broadcast journalism I know you are used to it though. LOL And I guess as they say..if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. FWIW This is the ONLY blog I take time to actually post. I read several others but only post here...I attribute that to you Greg and the largely thoughtful posters here left and right. I frequently learn things on this blog.

And so on this day of hope can I go a little maudlin here...as if I haven't already.

Thanks to Greg and thanks to all the posters who make this place a special slice of the blogosphere.

Posted by: rukidding7 | January 17, 2011 2:01 PM | Report abuse

RuKidding.

I am outraged that Greg has not banned me. I should not have to be subjected to having to look at the stuff that I post on Plumline.

I sure hope that the new software will have an option which will allow me, to block my owncomments. I am with all you people who have emailed Greg, demanding that I be banned. Keep up the good work.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 2:08 PM | Report abuse

@liam,

You are the man. John Boehner; The Republican Party's Weeping TRAUMA Queen!

Very clever.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 17, 2011 2:11 PM | Report abuse

I'm pretty new, so I don't know the history, but I find this amazing. Some guy using the handle RainForestRising spends all his waking hours posting and preaching here, yet he lacks even a shred of sense:
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
"Thank God for the First Amendment, which protects my speech by prohibiting any and all criticism of it."


______________________


Interesting what does that mean?


The First Amendment protects the speech AND the criticism.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 16, 2011 10:42 AM

Posted by: smd1234 | January 17, 2011 2:19 PM | Report abuse

@Liam Ahhh a very witty repost indeed my Hibernian friend.

Over the weekend I thought about an interesting concept. The annual Plum awards.
Each year Greg could let the regulars vote on various categories..winners getting a Tshirt from WaPo's promotion dept that said on the front..I post on the Plumline with a big plum. On the back...Washington Post with the PL's URL.

The more I thought..the more I was afraid people would try to come up with "negative" awards...like poster with worst spelling and sloppiest typing...that would be me of course.

But some of the categories..and I intended to name a poster for the right and the left so as to avoid any partisan food fights.

Some of the categories were really easy.
Most civil...left-lmsinca right-Kevin

Funniest left- the easiest call of all Liam
right-TrollMcWingnut tao comes in a very close second here and perhaps deserves more than Troll.

Most objective- not to be misconstrued with correct...IMO objectivity is simply an unemotional pursuit of truth...but it's not always successful..anyway again pretty easy...on the left
Mark in Austin(sorry if your an indy Mark)
on the right Scott C

Best links Left-Bernie Right Q.B.

Most considerate Left-12Bar Right..Brigade( don't get mad at me Brigade I'm only referring to the fact that you let up on me and 12Bar ;-)

It was kind of fun...can you guys tell it's raining here in Florida...we're not used to being stuck indoors. LOL

Posted by: rukidding7 | January 17, 2011 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Rukidding

A snatch of ancient Irish wisdom, that fits the topic.

"“If thou and I could by a tale. Some hours of wandering life beguile. Thy tears might cease and we might fail. To mind ourselves awhile.” (anon.)"

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 2:41 PM | Report abuse

@ruk,

What's going on with your new governor, his own party, and his budget? I'm just starting to read stories about some type of fundamental disagreement, or is that wrong.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 17, 2011 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Sounds like QB has a case of the Mondays.
In all seriousness, I suggest you reconsider both your decision to leave and your constant calls to ban cao. In my relatively brief time on this blog, Greg appears unwilling to ban pretty much anyone, even "hewhoshallnotberespondedto". I don't use Kevin's troll blocker, it really isn't that hard to scroll past the relatively few people (really only 1) I ignore.

Alright, back to my important health care article that was due to the editors two days ago and is only halfway done. At least the difficult half is the one that's done.


Posted by: ashotinthedark | January 17, 2011 3:03 PM | Report abuse

@Liam Thanks for that cuplet. I call myself a writer...not a published writer..not a successful writer..but being successful and wealthy is not what drives me.

It's this ever increasing inferiority complex when I compare my efforts to that of my Irish forebears that makes me simply wish to produce a speck of art worthy of my heritage.

@12Bar I linked a couple of stories from the St. Pete Times on that subject a couple days back when you weren't around.
It was part of a larger discussion about how the states are going to handle their looming budget crisis...looming..my mistake..current budget crises. Shrink came up with an interesting thought..comparing two D governed states with two R governed states to see what transpires.

Here in Florida we have perhaps the ONLY Pol who is beholden to nobody but himself.
Rick Scott self financed his own campaign and so he can think he is independent.

Alas Ricky welcome to government..it's not private business where as CEO you simply get your board on line and roll with it.

Specifically 12Bar Tricky Ricky got a double slap down in his first week in office. First the ulta conservative Fl State Senate said there will be no talk of tax cuts during this economic crisis...that negates the first of Scotts major initiatives...Secondly in the State of Florida Cabinet officers are independently elected (curious as to whether that is the case in most states?)
and are therefore not beholden to the Gov.
When he released his "freeze" on all Gov't implementation of new regs or enforcement Scott's cabinet...again really, really, really conservative folks all...said thanks but no thanks Gov...we were elected to run OUR own depts.

And so 12Bar this is just another example of what is going to happen when rhetoric meets reality for the Tea Party. Although I wouldn't wish to mislead...Scott may have gotten Tea Party votes but he is actually a very straightforward garden variety robber baron and will try to implement policies benefiting robber barons.

The saddest part of this entire fiasco is that in the closest Gubernatorial race in Fl history it was probably decided because of cracker sexism. I know of two guys(race was decided by more than two votes but if I know two, and I'm a progressive who doesn't normally associate with these malungins how many more must there have been?) who said they realized Scott was a Fraudster but that they couldn't vote for a woman as Gov. UNBELIEVABLE...one would hope...but anybody who thinks sexism is gone needs a wakeup call. Honestly 12Bar I'm well aware of the racism in our society but I was flabberghasted to realize that much sexism still existed. Perhaps because my wife is so successful and our relationship is built on mutual respect...maybe I've just had my head in the sand.

Posted by: rukidding7 | January 17, 2011 3:06 PM | Report abuse

From Politicalwire.com

Support for Health Care Repeal Fades


_______________________


This is a LIE


Support for repeal has been fluctuating between 55% and 60% - depending on polling methods.


Who know what this BOZO-polling firm asked the people - or whatever.

The Obama keep on LYING about the support for health care - just the parts people like.

YEA - the people want everything FREE - they don't want the part where they have to pay anything.


And the world is actually CANDYLAND.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 3:09 PM | Report abuse

12barblues


Continues with the CIVIL discourse

12Bar - everyone ignores you, no one can stand having a conversation with you.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 3:13 PM | Report abuse

@ruk,

Is it possible that Rick Scott is truly independent, meaning that he does not have the relationships within his own party that a politician would normally have. That's the way it's beginning to sound to me. His fellow R's don't seem to be too scared of him, or too considerate of him either, as they would be if they are collegial.

Seems like the risk of electing Scott is beginning to play out as predicted. Too much of a maverick. I realize that is probably the understatement of all time.

Sexism is alive and well as you noticed. We used to believe that sexism would die out when the older folks moved on. Just curious, how old were your sample size of two?

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 17, 2011 3:15 PM | Report abuse

@Greg IMO You are a pro...you know my respect for your journalistic integrity...

____________________


Sure, the Journo-list people are just known the world over for integrity....


Come on - let's be serious. The leftist swing of these articles hardly have broken any records.


Greg could have easily written for the pages of PRAVDA - maybe they would still be willing to give him a job offer...

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 3:19 PM | Report abuse

God bless you Sybil, for bringing it to the attention of readers, who might have missed it the first time.

The Associated Press(Which is owned by The Oligarchy) conducted the poll;

:Support for Health Care Repeal Fades
As House Republicans prepare for a Wednesday vote to repeal the new health care law, a new Associated Press-GfK poll finds just 25% favor complete repeal.

Among Republicans, support for repeal has also dropped sharply, from 61% after the elections to 49% now. "

Just amazing that more and more Republicans are starting to support killing jobs, by not repealing The Health Care Reform bill.

Wait until John Boehner, The Weeping TRAUMA Queen ,

hears about all those Republicans who do not want to take away health care from millions of poor sick people.

He is going to feel so terrible about it, that he is going stop crying.

That guy can turn on the faucets every time he drives past a Hallmark store, but when it comes to his push to refuse millions of Americans proper medical care, he remains as dry eyed as a skeleton in Death Valley.

The Republicans Assault Upon Medical Attention.

Acronym: TRAUMA.

Come on folks; spread it around. Get it in play now.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 3:27 PM | Report abuse

@RFR

Slow day dude. Are you a real live human being? I'm thinking someone is sitting somewhere in the basement of one of the big Tea Party groups and writing this crud and then hitting send and bombing it to blogs throughout the country.

Did you notice how BB actually communicated with you last night about DC...because you actually took the time to comment cogently and without all the ludicrous hyperbole.

"Greg could have easily written for the pages of PRAVDA"

Yeah and Obama has three eyes and Pelosi has three breasts in her bra and we all know that the number three is the secret Alien code for the takeover by those socialist Venusions...I mean really RFR that's what a joke you've become...

"Greg could have easily written for the pages of PRAVDA"

That is as absurd a statement as saying RFR is a considerate poster.

Posted by: rukidding7 | January 17, 2011 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Greg is very clear about his orientation, politically that is. If someone wants the view from the right, Jennifer needs page views.

I'm sure the irony of strident posters decrying incivility is lost on no one. If anyone needs a break, enjoy it. Blogs come and go; so do comments.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | January 17, 2011 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Rukidding,

Since you like The Wind That Shakes The Barley, you should get your hands on a DVD copy of Michael Collins, with Liam Neeson in the title role. Also a very accurate portrayal of the Irish Revolution that ousted the Brits.

The only off note, is the casting of Julia Roberts. Her Irish accent is atrocious. I guess the Director though by adding a big American name with star power, it would help the box office?

Aside from that; it is really a great movie.

So this year's American Idol is about to start, with Randy, Jennifer Lopez(who still looks great) and a very wrinkled and prematurely aged Julia Roberts. Or at least that is how she looks in the promo spots.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 3:39 PM | Report abuse

RUK:
Re RFR I think we're on the same page. From my comment to him on Saturday:

Ping: RAINFORESTRISING@WAPO.COM
AutoRant mode: OFF
Delete Program: VAST LEFTWING POLITICAL-MEDIA CONSPIRACY
Upload Program: MEDICATED GOVERNMENT CHEESE
Output Mode: SINGLE-SPACED TEXT. CAPS FIRST LETTER OF SENTENCE ONLY.
Run Program: MEDICATED GOVERNMENT CHEESE
AutoRant mode: ON – MEDIUM

(For fun I'm trying to start a "medicated govt cheese" meme. For those that believe in "Chemtrails" how can this be denied ;o)

Posted by: TominColorado | January 17, 2011 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Support for Health Care Repeal Fades
As House Republicans prepare for a Wednesday vote to repeal the new health care law, a new Associated Press-GfK poll finds just 25% favor complete repeal.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Gee, that's **so** unexpected. Here's the predictable responses from the right:

1. It's just another liberal poll. Obviously bogus.

2. Polls can be made to say whatever you want them to say.

3. Who cares about the polls anyway? It's about doing what is right!

4. They jammed down our throats, so now it's our turn.

And the beat goes on.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 17, 2011 3:44 PM | Report abuse

RU,

I don't think RFo is TParty, bark of the Birch perhaps.

Freakin' Jetz! And I'm not even a Pats fan, just a NEnative that happens to have a Giant(s) problem.

God Bless Martin, we all stand on his shoulders.

{i would like to see Washington and Lincoln get their own day back...Presidents Day--meh}

Posted by: tao9 | January 17, 2011 3:48 PM | Report abuse

I can clearly prove that US Cheese does not contain any medication(Just like STRF doesn't, but absolutely should).

Anyone who has every witnessed those Packer Cheesehead fans, know that those people are not medicated, but also probably could use some meds with their cheese. (I had to do that, because after all they are rivals with Da Bears)

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Tao,

STRF posting behaviour is starting to resemble the behavior of Jared Loughner, more than anything else.

Did you see the post from him, a few days back where he wrote the same word in CAPs, and only that word, for what appeared to be around a hundred lines? It was the sort of bizarre shriek that points to a severe psychosis manifesting itself, more and more.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Cold War 2.0 isn't going to involve missile gaps or proxy wars....

"Chinese President Hu Jintao has said the international currency system dominated by the US dollar is a "product of the past". The remarks to the Washington Post and Wall Street Journal came in the form of written responses to questions... On Sunday night, three Democratic senators announced they would introduce a new bill to increase penalties the US considers to be "currency manipulators". However, the move is unlikely to receive support from senior Republicans - who recently took control of the House of Representatives." BBC

Posted by: shrink2 | January 17, 2011 3:56 PM | Report abuse

No hugs in CHI:

http://senseofevents.blogspot.com/2011/01/seahawks-fall-to-climate-of-hate-in.html

Posted by: tao9 | January 17, 2011 3:58 PM | Report abuse

All PL and no work makes RFo a dull boy.

Posted by: tao9 | January 17, 2011 4:01 PM | Report abuse

@tao We are in agreement...like you I'm not a Pats fans but the Jets? Yechhh!

Your Bruins and my Lightning are both atop their divisions...I wish your Bruins success so that you and I get a chance to go tooth and nail against each other when we meet in the Eastern Conference final.

BTW agree with you observations about Washington and Lincoln and their own day. What is President's day? Sadly I'll bet less than half the 8th graders in our nation can even name the two Presidents being honored. My wife and I travel to D.C. every year as she lobbies for her profession of Dentistry with Dentists from around the country. Our absolute stop...our most important stop...we call going to church. We walk over to the Lincoln Memorial read the words on the walls and just stand there with tears in our eyes. I know I know call me John Boehner...but I am so awed and inspired EVERY time I go to the Lincoln Memorial. We usually attend a performance at Ford's Theatre as well.

BTW I recommend the quality of the productions at Ford's Theatre very highly.
We originally went of course to see the box, the museum downstairs...but the productions are always very, very good as well.

Posted by: rukidding7 | January 17, 2011 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Is RFo the same as he-who-shall-not-be-responded-to? Since I have the HWSNBRT in the blocked list, I cannot read his latest rant. Something about cheese, I gather? Thirty four of those responses, maybe one for every type of cheese?

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 17, 2011 4:06 PM | Report abuse

I believe skipsailing asked for this: http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/09/red_states_feed.html
.

Posted by: jprestonian | January 17, 2011 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Da Bears are innocent, Innocent I tell ya. Da Seahawks dropped out of the sky, just like doze Rednecked Blackbirds.

Just because some of Da Bears had Seakhawk feathers stuck in their incisors, means nothing. Da birds dropped dead, out of the sky, yer honor, so what was our beloved Bears, supposed to do, turn down a free meal? Come on yer honor; dismiss the charges; and as a show of appreciation, da McCaskett family will send round a Honey Bear to meet and great ye, if ye get my meaning yer honor.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 4:10 PM | Report abuse

"Jennifer needs page views."

Hopeless, no critical mass there.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 17, 2011 4:10 PM | Report abuse

12B

RFo is short for "WaterfallingfromskyLargetractoftreesGoingup"

Posted by: tao9 | January 17, 2011 4:13 PM | Report abuse

The right wing base of the Republican Party, the "values voters" need a candidate. Huck is too moderate, Mitt is too moderate too (then there are those magic underwear all the Mormon made men have to wear) and Sarah just isn't a politician.

"An independent campaign to draw GOP Rep. Mike Pence into the 2012 presidential race is under way, with a veteran of the Reagan White House launching a petition drive on Monday urging him to enter the primary contests.

Ralph Benko, a deputy counsel to Ronald Reagan, announced the America's President Committee to encourage a Pence-for-president bid. Former Rep. Jim Ryun, R-Kan., is also helping the campaign to collect signatures from conservatives and tea party activists.

"Mike Pence extraordinarily exemplifies the optimistic, pro-growth, pro-job creation Reagan-Kemp wing of the GOP. Grass-roots conservatives, Republicans, the tea party and populists are looking for a man or woman of principle who can champion and unite the newly energized and engaged citizenry," Benko said. AP

Posted by: shrink2 | January 17, 2011 4:17 PM | Report abuse

RFo is short for "WaterfallingfromskyLargetractoftreesGoingup"
------------------------------------------------
Clever, clever.

So similar to MFo. Don't you think?

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 17, 2011 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Ralph Benko, a deputy counsel to Ronald Reagan, announced the America's President Committee to encourage a Pence-for-president bid. Former Rep. Jim Ryun, R-Kan., is also helping the campaign to collect signatures from conservatives and tea party activists.
-------------------------------------------------
Pound wise, pence foolish.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 17, 2011 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Ruk, if you are like me you marvel anew at the second inaugural address each time, then walk down to the wall to find your old friends, long gone.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | January 17, 2011 4:26 PM | Report abuse

So I says to Finley, "A brace o' te fellas from down on te Lake Driuve toor a quaarrter of the pooor man's back off as neat as ye please."

And Peter says, "Aye, and all for only the squint's cheese."

Posted by: tao9 | January 17, 2011 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Mike Pence; There's a name, that instantly conjures up the word Charisma.

A field mouse somehow crawled in through my clothes dryer's external vent, and I found the poor thing's lifeless body among my basket of laundery.

It still projected more personality than Mike Pence.

To A Mouse:
By Robert Burns.

Wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie,
O, what panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
Wi' bickering brattle!
I wad be laith to rin an' chase thee,
Wi' murd'ring pattle!

I'm truly sorry Man's dominion
Has broken Nature's social union,
An' justifies that ill opinion,
Which makes thee startle,
At me, thy poor, earth-born companion,
An' fellow-mortal!

I doubt na, whyles, but thou may thieve;
What then? poor beastie, thou maun live!
A daimen-icker in a thrave 'S a sma' request:
I'll get a blessin wi' the lave,
An' never miss't!

Thy wee-bit housie, too, in ruin!
It's silly wa's the win's are strewin!
An' naething, now, to big a new ane,
O' foggage green!
An' bleak December's winds ensuin,
Baith snell an' keen!

Thou saw the fields laid bare an' wast,
An' weary Winter comin fast,
An' cozie here, beneath the blast,
Thou thought to dwell,
Till crash! the cruel coulter past
Out thro' thy cell.

That wee-bit heap o' leaves an' stibble,
Has cost thee monie a weary nibble!
Now thou's turn'd out, for a' thy trouble,
But house or hald.
To thole the Winter's sleety dribble,
An' cranreuch cauld!

But Mousie, thou are no thy-lane,
In proving foresight may be vain:
The best laid schemes o' Mice an' Men,
Gang aft agley,
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain,
For promis'd joy!

Still, thou art blest, compar'd wi' me!
The present only toucheth thee:
But Och! I backward cast my e'e,
On prospects drear!
An' forward, tho' I canna see,
I guess an' fear!

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 4:28 PM | Report abuse

@Liam Thanks for the Michael Collins tip. I like Liam Neeson and I appreciate your warning about Julia Roberts lack of dialectical(word?) ability. One of the things that made T.W.T.S. Barley so intriguing to me was the authenticity of both the actors and shooting locales.

Now Liam we must part ways on the NFC Championship. My lovely wife...all my in-laws are cheese heads.

"Anyone who has every witnessed those Packer Cheesehead fans, know that those people are not medicated, but also probably could use some meds with their cheese."

May I beg to differ...most of those cheeseheads have been very medicated by plenty of brewskis and brats. When the Bucs were still in the Central division and only drawing about half a stadium..both Bears and Packer fans used to swarm into our fair city. For some it was the only way to see their beloved team because home game tickets were just too scarce.

We'd laugh if it was a late season game.
Bears/Packer fans coming down from their first snow...65 and sunny here too cold for we Florida weenies, but plenty warm for Bears/Pack fans. They'd rent convertibles for the weekend...drop the top..head to the beach and head home with their skin fried a bright red...that was our only revenge since the Bucs were so horrible the Bears/Pack routinely kicked our backsides.

Posted by: rukidding7 | January 17, 2011 4:29 PM | Report abuse

"...advocates for Pence — like other possible candidates — insist there is time for any of a dozen or so would-be candidates to assemble a team. That is one reason many will be speaking to the Conservative Political Action Conference next month in Washington. Pence has been invited to speak.

Others potential 2012 candidates who accepted invitations: Romney, Gov. Haley Barbour of Mississippi, Gov. Mitch Daniels of Indiana, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty, Sen. John Thune of South Dakota and former Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania."

Rick Santorum? What, no Tancredo? CPAC ought to be a holwer, one long scream, civility, what civility?, they'll fall over each other each acting more militantly than the next, a mötley crüe.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 17, 2011 4:29 PM | Report abuse

The Rep primaries and the General presidential election should be interesting.
Remember about four years ago how the dead-cinch convential wisdom was was "Rudy v. Hillary, might as well save the money and not even have the primaries".

Posted by: TominColorado | January 17, 2011 4:37 PM | Report abuse

@mark in austin.....Amen...the best word I can think of to respond to your 4:26PM post.


Perhaps timely since all of the talk over the weekend about boorish behavior. But before you guys from the Fix came over we had a real piece of work who called himself Bilgey. I may be mistaken but he is the only poster I know to have gotten banned from this blog.

I bring this up because I think you will understand why I went all Q.B. on him after one of his screeds about Vietnam Vets not deserving a memorial because we lost the war. Personally I still have survivors guilt because I was in the rear area while my division was up at Hue in some of the worst fighting possible. I say this with no false modesty...I did nothing, exhibited no bravery, but many of my peers DID!!! Hearing Bilgey say that about those guys made me as angry as anything I've ever read on this or any blog....

Posted by: rukidding7 | January 17, 2011 4:38 PM | Report abuse

in response to this:
========
I believe skipsailing asked for this: http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/09/red_states_feed.html
.
===============================

The problem is that the good professor wrote a blog post about a study that is no longer available. The Tax foundation doesn't have it available.

therefore i cannot review the 'internals" of the study. I don't know what assumptions were made, what was counted how, what methodologies were used and so forth.

I understand that liberals like to use this study as a weapon. but absent some way to assure myself that this isn't good old GIGO I just can't believe it is reliable.

Too many liberal lies for too long to simply accept anything of this nature put forth by a member of the left.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | January 17, 2011 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Tom, no not really. I can remember that far back.
Look at the date of this cartoon. October 23, 2006.
Look at the fine print and the little characters at the left

http://books.google.com/books?id=VrkJqbVZ5QcC&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=Oliphant,+All+hail+obama&source=bl&ots=IfQ2HNaRj1&sig=YaU58p66t7ZRCphNo2JYmZnBSyc&hl=en&ei=Ibc0TfyvFpOisAPWk7G3BQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CEwQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q&f=false

Posted by: shrink2 | January 17, 2011 4:44 PM | Report abuse

@shrink,

Who's the Republican to beat? Does Pence have to out-Palin Palin (unpredictable conservative wordsmith), only smarter and more disciplined? Or does Pence have to out-Romney Romney (credible moderate who's been vetted and can raise big $), only without the funny garments? It seems like the leading candidates have been Palin/Romney for months now. Maybe the best choice for the R's is to find someone who is close to being Palin or Romney, only New & Improved. That way they can morph the face from Palin to Pence (for example) without having to deal with the lack of name recognition.

I'll bet it's the Palin clone myself.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 17, 2011 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Rukidding,

I just like to rib Packer fans, at this time of year, but they are really lovely friendly people.

I make the Pack a ten point favorite to beat the Bears, but Lovey has had a horseshoe stuck in a secure place where no TSA staff dare go, all through this season. Look at the absurd call, against Detroit, when they had the Bears beat in Chicago. The this Great Packers team loses late in the season, to Detroit, making the final game against the Bears, meaningless and now The Packers have saved Lovey from having to travel to Atlanta.

Cutler is one of those QB's that always needs to get off to a good start, or he really unravels. I know we beat Seattle, but the Little Sisters Of The Poor could have done that.

The Bears Offense Coach scares the hell out of me. He gets pass happy, and needs to be reined in. Too often he does not run off some clock, so the Bears defense ends up getting wore down, in the fourth quarter.

Did you see the call he made, on first down, when the Bears were eating up the clock with a big lead, and were driving again, where he tried a trick passing play with the running back, which got intercepted, and resulted in The Seahawks scoring, and getting back in the game.

Lovey better put a shock collar on Mike Martz, and if the Bears start passing too much, he better shock the hell out of Martz to bring him to heel.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 4:49 PM | Report abuse

@jprestonian

Even though it might have been Skip who requested it I appreciate that link as well. I was aware of that "general" fact but hadn't seen it in such specificity.
Thanks.

Posted by: rukidding7 | January 17, 2011 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Actually Greg did ban 37th as 47th. lasted seconds before he came back in another incarnation.

Posted by: ceflynline | January 17, 2011 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Shrink2:
Thanks for the edjumakation! I was probably paying more attention to the Rep side.
If you don't mind me asking: we're you for Obama or Hillary in the primaries?... Thanks

Posted by: TominColorado | January 17, 2011 4:51 PM | Report abuse

I know JakeD2 got banned by Greg for his intractable case of birtherism and I think Greg also banned ("poor lonely ped" the cao hater and pedophile insult slinger) Zouk too, though I can't remember all the names Zouk was using toward the end.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 17, 2011 4:51 PM | Report abuse

@shrink,

I think you mean that Chris Cillizza (Fix) banned zouk et al and JakeD2.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 17, 2011 5:00 PM | Report abuse

Tom, there were only the primaries as far as those of us out in left field were concerned. We had major battles, the Democrats did.
Beating The Clintons was the hard part. I barely remember the general, as it seemed to me the wheels fell off McCain Palin when he suspended his campaign and decided to go pose for his campaign in front of the TARP negotiations, Maybe if he had not opened his mouth, no one would have known he did not know what the words the negotiators were using meant meant.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 17, 2011 5:00 PM | Report abuse

Yglesias points to Fallows (who has recently returned from living in China)...

"James Fallows asks us to exercise our imaginations and ponder the scale of China:


If Americans wanted to imagine what it would take to be “strong” in the way China currently is, [Thomas Barnett] said, all we’d have to do is think of moving the entire population of the Western Hemisphere into our existing borders. Every single Mexican. (Rather than enforcing the southern border, we’d require everyone to cross it, headed north.) Every Haitian, Cuban, and Jamaican. Everyone from Central America. All 190 million from Brazil. And so on. Even the Canadians. China, by the way, is just about the same size as the United States, though a larger share of its land area is desert, mountain, or otherwise nonarable.

If we did that, we’d be up to about a billion people — and then if we also took every single person from Nigeria, and for good measure everyone in hyper-crowded Japan too, we’d finally be up to China’s 1.3 billion size. At that point, like China, we’d have tremendous scale in everything. Rich people. Big businesses. A huge work force. Countless numbers of multi-million population cities. And we would also have a tremendous amount of poverty, plus pressure on resources of every kind, from water to food to living space. Just as China does now. Scale gives China some strengths. But it also creates tremendous challenges, as Americans would recognize if we thought about this prospect for even a minute. Seriously, reflect on this, and consider that it is China’s reality now."

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/2011/01/the-problem-of-scale/

Posted by: bernielatham | January 17, 2011 5:01 PM | Report abuse

No, Greg banned JakeD2 from this site and he may or may not have banned Zouk, I lost track of all of Zouk's names, bc he changed "personalities" too, he may not have made it over to the PL but JakeD2 sure did. cao would know.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 17, 2011 5:03 PM | Report abuse

rukidding


Hyperbole is an art form. You should try it.

Illustrate your writing.


______________________

Fairlington

Did you see my comment on DC RETRO-RETROCESSION ???

I was taken aback by the notation that the retrocession of Arlington may have been illegal because the referendum did not pass in that County (which was called Alexandria County prior to 1920.)

That passage was required by the Congressional Act which allowed Virginia to take the territory back.

Apparently, this issue came up in the Virginia legislature as well.


THIS all gave me a thought: RETRO-RETROCESSION give-back Alexandria and Arlington back to DC.

The additional tax revenues would be extremely beneficial.


If the Senate races became competitive, the Republicans in Congress actually might be willing to entertain adding two Senators and a Congressman - or even Statehood.

In fact, perhaps even more population could be added in order to balance things out.

IN that case, we have a more viable enitity from taxation revenue standpoint- and the Republicans might actually like it.

If one adds enough population, perhaps two Congressman can be added - a little gerrymanding could result in that balancing out.

So the issue would be getting the population even enough for competitive Senate races.

Now we are talking here.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 5:10 PM | Report abuse

@shrink,

You are right that Greg did ban JakeD2, for exactly the same reason that Chris Cillizza banned him. Maybe Greg talked to Cillizza.

As far as I can tell, zouk has not appeared here. His style is distinctive.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 17, 2011 5:10 PM | Report abuse

|hi:12BBA|
"Who's the Republican to beat?"

Mitt, for sure. The question is how much damage with the Republicans do to him. How far right will he have to tack to get the nomination without losing the moderates? Obama already tacked his boat to the middle and he'll be grabbing up moderates all over the place while Mitt tries to corral the base.

As I've said, I'm hoping for a conflagration of historical proportion, vulgar, nasty, a vicious political donnybrook. I can't to see Sarah in her role as the bête noir. I'll bet she gets an Oscar.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 17, 2011 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Since shrink and 12bar wish to play that terrifically fun parlor game...who will the R's run in 2012..can I join in...

This is not a prediction. In fact I think odds are slim..but as a progressive this is who I would fear the most from the R's...

Unless something dramatic happens which of course calls off all bets...the economy will continue to improve albeit far too slowly..Obama will continue to appear Presidential...registered D's outnumber registered R's..in other words 2012 is going to be very, very tough on the R's attempting to retake the W.H.

But the R's have a secret weapon. They do not eat their losing candidates and have no trouble trotting them out again if the mood of the party dictates...so here is a tip from the left righties..

Marco Rubio blows away any of these folks who have been mentioned. I don't really understand why given his record in Tallahassee but the TPers love the "Golden" Boy. I certainly have no affection for him but I do have to concede he is a bright, attractive, young man who actually has brains (does that disqualify him as a pointy headed elitest?). He is a great campaigner, a compelling public speaker and of course while no one wants to admit either party plays identity politics (Sarah Palins selection had nothing to do with her being a woman and the fact there were so many PUMA's to be had) both parties are obviously aware of demographic trends. Rubio is an Hispanic, from the "good" Hispanic country as viewed by the right...Cuba..he's no Mexican.

Still run him 2012...his life story is as compelling as Obama...son of illegal immigrants..oops they were legal because they were fleeing Castro and we decided that makes them OK...all the hard work to put their boy Marco through school and look at how it's paid off. It's literally the American Dream. So let Marco take on Obama...he loses...but he established great name recognition in the process and in 2016 the R's will be poised to elect the first Hispanic President of the U.S.A.

Posted by: rukidding7 | January 17, 2011 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Liam

Shrink is the one who said he has a Glock

_____________________


Shrink

The Chinese should think twice about not liking the US dominated currency system - a basket of currencies could easily be inflated by a few nations - leading to inefficiencies in the marketplace.

Also, the US currency provides a stability.

If the Chinese tried to have a larger role as a world currency, the little games they play with keeping their currency undervalued would not work - the third world countries would be aiming to keep their currency below China's.

If China tried to take the lead in currency, they could not undervalue their currency for very long.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 5:15 PM | Report abuse

CIVIL RIGHTS


The FIRST Federal Civil Right legislation was passed by US Grant - a Republican.

The democrats then spent the next 90 YEARS undermining that law - and subverting it.

The democrats passed laws to subvert Grant's Republican Civil Rights Act - and THE DEMOCRATS LYNCHED BLACKS WHO DID NOT COOPERATE.
_________________________


Somehow, the democrats of today LOVE to blame the Republicans for what the DEMOCRATS DID.

AND somehow the democrats WANT CREDIT for Civil Rights - like Lincoln freeing the slaves was meaningless.

(For all you democrats out there, Lincoln was a Republican.)

____________________


Martin Luther King was a Republican.


What the democrats want you to BELIEVE IS A SET OF DECEPTIONS AND LIES

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Talking football, up here where I am, people are either Vikings or Packers fans and there's an absolute divide. I've always been on the Vikings' side, but this year I finally gained some sympathy for Packer fans. It's exhausting having Brett Favre as quarterback. May he truly retire in peace.

Posted by: AllButCertain | January 17, 2011 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Bernie,

Can our species figure out how to live in a post materials possession future?

That is going to be the real challenge. The global population just recently reached the Seven Billion mark. That is a tremendous amount of people to have demanding more and more durable products, homes, plus abundant food, clothing, recreation, and health care, with genetic research developing cures that will let most people live until they are very old.

We are already starting to see the tip of the shortages iceberg, with riots breaking out in places like Tunis.

What will seven or nine billion people do with their time, once robotics become so capable, and inexpensive, that manufacturers stop hiring any humans?

Oil is already past peak supply levels, and the demand from three billion people in China, India, and Brazil has just started to kick in. The same goes for battery powered cars. The materials that go into the batteries is already a scare commodity.

Some times, I just do not like how the future projects out ,and am comforted by the thought, that I will not be around to have to endure it.

The sea levels are rising, regardless of what has triggered the melting of so much of the planets ice cover; and that is going to displace so many coastal cities, that it will create havoc, in the interior communities, that coastal refugees will flee to.

I look into the future, and I see millions of Americans having to abandon their coastal homes, and flee inland, only to be greeted by people in the arid southwest, with their arsenals of lethal handguns, and bloodbaths will erupt.

THE SECOND COMING

TURNING and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of i{Spiritus Mundi}
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

William Butler Yeats.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 5:21 PM | Report abuse

@ruk,

Great analysis. What are Rubio's weaknesses?

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 17, 2011 5:24 PM | Report abuse

In honor of the HOLIDAY - Lee's Birthday which is Wednesday, let's get our history CORRECT:


The democrats passed the Jim Crow laws.

The democrats defended the Jim Crow laws and got the Supreme Court to say they were Consititutional.

(not much unlike Obama defending the health care law)

The democrats were ALIGNED with the KKK.

The democrats allowed the KKK to send blocks of delegates to the DNC National Conventions.

The democrats FOUGHT against Civil Rights legislation with filibusters in the US Senate.

_____________________


AND the democrats are the ones who LYNCHED BLACKS during the Jim Crow era.
___________

And the democrats will sit here and say they are lilly-white and they will ATTEMPT TO MAKE YOU THINK THE REPUBLICANS ARE THE BAD, BAD GUYS.


It really is nonsense from the liberals - because all they want to do is claim they have a monopoly on what is right and what is wrong.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 5:25 PM | Report abuse

ruk
You talked this way of Rubio last week, but I think it was clear when we went over this that he is heading for 2016; he just won his first big job last month and sure, thin resumes are all the rage these days, but his is **really** thin. Besides, as you say, he is a talent and there is no point in establishing any negatives in a bruising primary and a hopeless general. The Rs make their comeback to national power or not...in 2016. That is what I've been saying since The Clintons lost and November might have cost the Rs more than they know, with the moderates that is, when they do nothing in the House for two years.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 17, 2011 5:25 PM | Report abuse

ashot:

""Greg appears unwilling to ban pretty much anyone, even "hewhoshallnotberespondedto".""

Greg has banned 3 posters in my time here. He banned Bilgeman (conservative) for behavior that was pretty much replicated by liberals here both before and after him who remain in good standing. (indeed, Greg actually solicited a vote from the board on whether to ban Bilge. By my count Bilge won the vote, but Greg banned him anyway.) He banned Jake (conservative), although I missed why. And he banned the person who is today RFR, for basically spamming the board. Obviously he has gotten around the ban and Greg has given up.

Experience, though, particularly with Bilgeman, demonstrates to me that Greg is far less willing to ban liberals regardless of their behavior. In fact I have seen Greg engage in friendly banter with some posters who were at least equal to, if not worse (certainly in my view) than Bilgeman ever was. If it happens that he is working quietly and behind the scenes to ban cao, who has bragged about his ability to get around being banned, then I take that back. But so far, I've seen no reason to think otherwise.

Posted by: ScottC3 | January 17, 2011 5:27 PM | Report abuse

"I look into the future, and I see millions of Americans having to abandon their coastal homes, and flee inland, only to be greeted by people in the arid southwest, with their arsenals of lethal handguns, and bloodbaths will erupt."

cao? cao is that you? You are up early this morning? How is Tuesday?

Posted by: shrink2 | January 17, 2011 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, skipsailing -- a simple Googling would have got you this: http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/1397.html
.

Posted by: jprestonian | January 17, 2011 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Sarah Palin Battle Hymn (lyrics followed by live performance link) h/t Crooks and Liars

She's a cold blast from Alaska
Ingrained with common sense
She's not a Harvard lawyer
But she knew what the Founders meant
A cold blast from the north
That freezes Congress in their tracks
With God and the Tea Party
She's gonna take it back

[Chorus]
Sarah Palin, she won't listen to their bunk
Sarah Palin's comin' south to hunt some skunk
Sarah Palin, she'll throw them all in jail
And when she gets to Washington
It'll be cold as hell

Sarah has the wisdom
To walk through an open door
She is stomping out the wretches
Where the evil lines are stored
She will scrub the floors and sweep the riff raff into cracks
With God and the Tea Party
She's gonna take it back

[Chorus]

[Spoken]
Congress patted themselves on the back
For some new bill they just passed
I watch as my freedom slowly runs through an hourglass
They think they spend our money better than we do
But they can talk until they're blue and old
'Cause if they ever gave us anything
They always wanted something in return
Sarah knows.

Sarah's marching home

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhMepzqJvIw

Posted by: bernielatham | January 17, 2011 5:32 PM | Report abuse

From NRO:

Perry has several things working in his favor. Foremost among them: He can win Texas. Recall that when Obama won in 2008, he was only the third person since Calvin Coolidge to win the White House without prevailing in Texas. The others were Bill Clinton (who, thanks largely to Ross Perot, did it twice) and Richard Nixon (who did it once, in 1968). *Second, Perry can see the obvious: a large but weak list of potential Republican candidates, none of whom has emerged as a real favorite.*

In addition, Perry has a proven ability to raise money. En route to his thumping of Democrat gubernatorial candidate (and former Houston mayor) Bill White in November, Perry raised more than $30 million. And his fundraising prowess is a key reason why he was recently elected as head of the Republican Governors Association.

Texas is the only state that has refused the EPA’s requirement to establish a greenhouse-gas permitting program for big industrial plants. But by fighting Washington, Perry follows a long Texas tradition. In the 1940s and ’50s, Texas waged a bitter fight against federal regulators over royalty rights to offshore minerals. This “Tidelands” battle emerged as a major issue in the 1952 presidential race between Dwight Eisenhower and Adlai Stevenson. The Texas Democratic party — the only party in the state at that time — was so incensed at Stevenson’s opposition to Texas’s position on the matter that it passed a resolution urging Democrats to vote against him. Eisenhower, who was sympathetic to Texas on the controversy, beat Stevenson in Texas and went to the White House, and Texas eventually got ownership of its offshore rights.

Perry’s pushback against the EPA, which is now being litigated in federal court, is clearly aimed at trying to help Texas’s massive hydrocarbon sector. And for good reason: Texas companies produce, refine, and distribute more oil, natural gas, refined products, and chemicals than any other state. That production and refining means that Texas is the biggest carbon-dioxide emitter in the U.S., producing about 10 percent of all CO2 in the country.

*I want Goodhair to run so we are rid of him as Gov., but he should not be dismissed if he does. In fact, TX is strewn with the political corpses of men and women who crossed his path. He will raise money. He will talk and smile until you like him. He knows how to campaign. His governing is worse than Pawlenty's, but his style is really not to be underestimated.

12BB, if he runs he will have money and powerful friends. And he will look good on TV even when he is lying through his teeth. He ran on his balanced budget here when everyone knew we were in a $20B+ hole.


Posted by: mark_in_austin | January 17, 2011 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Can we suspend all the banning blather until we see what the new system does?

If it turns out to be just an ignore option, which Greg said last week, it might provide, then all those who want to not see someone's comments can just avoid them.

Keep in mind that old adage, which I just now made up:

Sticks and Stones may break my bones; but John Boehner is going to make sure millions of us will not be able to get them repaired.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 5:34 PM | Report abuse

"He banned Jake (conservative), although I missed why."

I was on here that day here, it was for off topic (obviously) birther spamming. Jake had gotten around bans at The Fix several times. If he wanted to be on the PL, he would be I imagine.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 17, 2011 5:36 PM | Report abuse

Liam:

""The global population just recently reached the Seven Billion mark. That is a tremendous amount of people to have demanding more and more durable products, homes, plus abundant food, clothing, recreation, and health care, with genetic research developing cures that will let most people live until they are very old.""

You should really read The Ultimate Resource by Julian Simon. It is free on the net. As a preview, the "ultimate resource" is the very resource the growth of which you seem to be lamenting above.

Posted by: ScottC3 | January 17, 2011 5:40 PM | Report abuse

PACKERS

This year, the Packers got the wildcard in a three-way tiebreaker based on Strength of Victory.

Had the Giants beaten Tennessee or Philly in those last minutes, the Giants would have gotten the wildcard (or Philly) and the Packers would never have made the playoffs at all.

This is important to remember if they do go to the SuperBowl - how close the Packers were to elimination


____________________________


I wrote yesterday about the last time the Packers met the Bears in the playoffs.

It really wasn't a playoff game at all - it was a tiebreaker game.

The previous Sunday the Bears were playing the Chicago Cardinals, before they moved to St. Louis and Arizona. This game was played on the day the Japanese were bombing Pearl Harbor, perhaps at the very hours. The Bears came back from a 14-0 deficit to force the tie and the game against the Packers.

The winner of that tiebreaker game would go on for the NFL Championship game.


Many people will not believe the game was played at Wrigley Field. When they re-did the drainage system at Wrigley a few years ago, they found the old footings from the goalposts buried from when the Bears used to play there.


The following week, the NFL Championship game was played - there were only 2 post-season games that year - both played at Wrigley Field. The Bears beat the Giants in that game to win the NFL title.


________________


The Vikings would not be heard of for 19 years. There was a Minnesota NFL team before the Vikings - it was called the Duluth Eskimos. They ended up moving to New Jersey.

Many people will be surprised to know that only NFL team from New York is the Buffalo Bills.

Actually the Giants are not the first NFL Team in New Jersey - the Duluth Eskimos became the Orange Tornados. Orange, NJ that is - and if you are familar with the area, you really would have a difficult time wrapping your head around an NFL team playing its games in Orange, NJ.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 5:41 PM | Report abuse

No more Presidents from Texas.

The last three of them from there, ended up with very bad results.

The same goes for Jeb Bush. We tried two of them, and they both were failures, so I say; only a fool would keep on voting for to get Bushwacked for a third time.

Fool me once, and George W. will tell you how the rest of it goes.

Three hundred million people, so lets give some other states a shot, and some other family a shot at the White House.

No more of the Bush Dynasty, and no more Presidents from Texas for quite some time.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 5:42 PM | Report abuse

My Marco observation makes wish to pose a hypothetical question for my fellow posters.

If Mexico had been ruled by a corrupt Communist regime for past 50 years...much as we view Cuba...would we have a different take on all the immigrants who have flooded in from Mexico?

Posted by: rukidding7 | January 17, 2011 5:42 PM | Report abuse

scottc3 writes
"If it happens that he is working quietly and behind the scenes to ban cao, who has bragged about his ability to get around being banned, then I take that back. But so far, I've seen no reason to think otherwise."

Much of that went down at The Fix already, where the new comment system stinks. I don't know if its the same one that will be coming here. If so, I find the current site + trollhunter to be a better fix; & I say that only being able to run TH at home (i.e. forced use of ie here). Oh yeah, RFR was banned several times from the Fix, as was the person who now goes by cao. He had 3 or 4 ids banned at the Fix, according to my memory. Which is part of the point: login bans don't work for the trolls willing to create a new email address, which is trivial; what does it take, 5 minutes? IP bans don't work because most of us don't have a fixed IP - a modem reboot regenerates that & voila! the ban is circumvented. For those with a fixed IP, setting up a redirect isn't very difficult either. So as a blog participant you either get used to dealing with trolls, or get used to crappy software thats worse than dealing with the trolls (and often doesn't eliminate them anyway).

And that will end my happy thought of the day.

Posted by: bsimon1 | January 17, 2011 5:43 PM | Report abuse

If Mexico had been ruled by a corrupt Communist regime for past 50 years...much as we view Cuba...would we have a different take on all the immigrants who have flooded in from Mexico?
------------------------------------------------
Mexico has been ruled by corrupt regimes for at least 50 years. I remember my Mexican friends saying "we don't mind that the government steals from us. We're used to that. But, they can't steal everything."

The different way that Cubans are perceived versus Mexicans is based on something other than their home government.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 17, 2011 5:49 PM | Report abuse

All,

One man's troll is another man's Martin Luther King.


You think King was liked?

The democrats HATED HIM.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 5:51 PM | Report abuse

bsimon:

I understand that it is very difficult to enforce a ban. But it is not so difficult for a host to call posters out. Greg is noticeably lopsided when it comes to doing that.

Posted by: ScottC3 | January 17, 2011 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Getting back to the Republican hopefuls, perhaps someone can educate me.
What is the latest date/event that someone can throw their hat into the ring and have a realistic chance of building an organization?

The R slate seems to be a mile wide and 1/2" deep. The ones with name recognition and modest popularity aren't even in politics anymore. Romney, Huckabee and Palin. And each of these have significant weaknesses.

The others either have no popularity or name recognition, or both. Barbour and Gingrich are known but unpopular. The rest are unknown nationally.

How late can Rick Perry or Marco Rubio get in? Seems late to me already. Or am I wrong?

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 17, 2011 5:57 PM | Report abuse

You should really read The Ultimate Resource by Julian Simon. It is free on the net. As a preview, the "ultimate resource" is the very resource the growth of which you seem to be lamenting above.

Posted by: ScottC3 | January 17, 2011 5:40 PM
.......................

I have read his work. It is very outdated, and all he was doing was claiming that even thought sources most likely become scarcer and scarcer, while the global population continued to expand, human ingenuity would surely figure out a way to overcome the limits of resources that the planet can provide. Then why isn't it happening now. The people of Haiti, and the many millions of children who are malnourished and living in squalor are asking with their haunted eyes.

It all read like a lot of faith based nonsense.

I mused about the prospects of how a huge global population might cope, when confronted with no production jobs to provide money to pay for goods they no longer make, and all you can come up with is; some silly faith based out dated projection; and the use of the word lamentation in a pejorative manner.

You sure love to pin down people, and demand precise answers, but you have no problem, tossing around a lot of vague futuristic Utopian faith based assertions by a guy who offered no well grounded rational solutions.

You might just as well have claimed that Prayer, or placing frogs under milk pails, will provide for everyone.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 5:59 PM | Report abuse

@12 Bar.....sorry I missed your earlier post.

"Is it possible that Rick Scott is truly independent, meaning that he does not have the relationships within his own party that a politician would normally have."

You've hit the nail on the head. Scott ran against the R party establishment in the primary, took a little of their money in the general, but by and large financed his own campaign, and so as you observe 12Bar he is not only not beholden to special interests, he is beholden to no party and that includes the TParty. Tricky Ricky is truly an anomaly and as much as I abhor this man as a writer I'd love to see a bio pic....it would be along that docudrama.."Enron the Smartest Guys in the Room".

As for your other observation about sexism and question...I hope you are correct and sexism is slowly disappearing. The age range of the two men is older..mid 50's if I had to guess so that perhaps supports your point(hope).

Posted by: rukidding7 | January 17, 2011 6:02 PM | Report abuse

All,

A moment of clarity.

Most of what liberals want can be evaluated with simple economics.

Much of what the liberals want comes down to "I want Candyland."

The economics tells us that someone, somehow has to pay for all of that. And that is where most of what the liberals say is exposed as garbage.


The Republicans used to get slammed as the party of big business. Clinton's trade deals destroyed every small town Main Street in the nation - so much for the businessmen on Main Street having enough money to influence the political system now.

Besides, since the 90s, the democrats have been taking just about as much money from big business as the Republicans have.

Which brings us back to Candyland - we can't pay for Candyland.

The unions pretty much took care of that. The little cycle of electing democrats who in turn went into secret labor negotiations which gave the unions sweet contracts has basically blown-out every budget in the country. The blue states are worse than the red states - but the red states with big cities also have serious financial problems.

Which brings us back to Candyland - well the unions will not let the other democratic interest groups cut into their slice of the pie - which they have already cut away.


Which brings us to one central question: entitlements OR union contracts.

One has to go.


The Republicans are also telling you that taxes have to be cut too. We still have to compete with other nations because we have those Clinton Trade deals in place.

And the Republicans will quickly remind you that the ONLY chance ANYONE of us has is to maximize economic growth.


If you do not maximize economic growth, the world will become a dangerous place very quickly. When other nations start to overtake us, bad things will happen. Believe me, you don't want to see that happen.

The liberals love to complain about the world when the United States is in charge - I'd like to hear them complain when some other countries are in charge of their regions and kicking people around.


Which brings us back to Candyland - right?


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 6:03 PM | Report abuse

12BBA, I think the weeks after CPAC will winnow the field to 6. The convention is in 18 months. To me this means there is no time for an unknown to get known, that iwndow is closed. Besides, that is not how Republicans do things. Even for Democrats, Obama was well on his way, he was The rising star by this time last cycle. So as you know, I don't think Republicans forgetting about 2012 is no parlor game. It is amazing how much political capital the Republicans spent on Nevember, as if 2012 were a sort of foregone conclusion. Very recently Republicans have been declaring, it makes no difference whom they nominate, Obama just can't win in 2012, not after November, to which I've laughed, if Harry Reid can win, it makes a difference whom you nominate.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 17, 2011 6:07 PM | Report abuse

Looks like some backers of Mike Pence are getting serious about having him run for President in 2012.

I understand that they are trying to get him placed toward the top of a waiting list for to receive a Charisma transplant.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 6:10 PM | Report abuse

Sheesh, way too many typos, hard to work and post at the same time, but it keeps the work flow moving, paradoxically.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 17, 2011 6:12 PM | Report abuse

Barbour says he won't make a decision on whether to run for president until April. Perry has been polling outside of Texas, according to Austin political operatives, a sign that he may be keeping the door open to a 2012 bid as well.

Now that all of the funerals are done, Palin will be interviewed by Hannity tonight at 9 pm Eastern.

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 17, 2011 6:15 PM | Report abuse

Republicans have been declaring, it makes no difference whom they nominate
--------------------------------------------------------
Bwahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!

Right! Angle and O'Donnell and what's-his-name in Alaska are examples of making a **big** difference who they run.

Right now, the R's would rather not predict who's going to run because they don't know **who** to run. Do they think everyone is dumb?

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 17, 2011 6:16 PM | Report abuse

If CPAC is a gating item in terms of timing, I would imagine that CPAC appearance is relatively important. The list of speakers includes about everyone on the short list except Huckabee.

What else is a gating item? Organization at state level?

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 17, 2011 6:20 PM | Report abuse

I am going to work the Primaries and caucuses to try an deliver the nomination to Sarah Palin.

Rush was kind enough to pitch in and urge his followers to help we Democrats sort out our nomination process in 2008, so I want to repay his act of generosity. It would be rude of me to do other wise, and I think many more of you Democrats should repay your obligation to Rush, by helping nominate Sarah Palin.

It would be just our way of showing civility, just as if we all sat side by side with Rush, at the State Of The Union Address.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 6:24 PM | Report abuse

Yes certainly the organization and the tone he built around his candidacy in 2006 (before he declared) had everything to do with his victory.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 17, 2011 6:29 PM | Report abuse

Liam-still, you are free to contribute to http://www.SarahPAC.com and volunteer at http://www.PrimariesforPalin.com/?p=103

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 17, 2011 6:36 PM | Report abuse

@Liam re "Can our species figure out how to live in a post materials possession future?"

As Woody Allen said, "Confidence is the thing you have before you understand the problem."

The two factors that have me worried are, first, whether we'll be able to work up the necessary (or even minimally effective) means of turning back the weather phenomena and second, whether we'll be able to get it together socially/institutionally to what may be necessary. Given that our brains are evolved for limited circumstances I'm not very confident here.

Posted by: bernielatham | January 17, 2011 6:45 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Claw.

Sarah has no problem raising money, so stop with your spaming scam.

She will have no problem being funded, and my sweat equity, in the early contests, is where I can best help her to become unstoppable.

Fellow Democrats: help me repay Rush's act of kindness and civility back in 2008, by working the primaries and caucus states for Sarah Palin.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 6:46 PM | Report abuse

"Much of that went down at The Fix already, where the new comment system stinks. I don't know if its the same one that will be coming here."

Posted by: bsimon1 | January 17, 2011 5:43 PM
-------

I agree with bsimon1. The Fix went in the toilet after changing the comment system. I'd much rather suffer the trolls. Of course my skin is thicker than some.

Posted by: Brigade | January 17, 2011 6:50 PM | Report abuse

You're welcome. I definitely want you and your fellow Democrats (see 2nd link) to volunteer for such a noble cause.

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 17, 2011 6:54 PM | Report abuse

You can't tweak a dog.

The democrats want to tweak their health care bill.


So the logic is, Obama wouldn't listen to anyone for two years. NOW Obama wants to tweak his health care plan - so somehow he can then claim a victory.


The LOGIC

Obama is always looking for the Republicans to agree to something - just so he can go SCREAM he has a victory over the Republicans.


How much sense does that make? There is zero logic here.


It appears that Obama does not have the ability to think past the first move. Obama frames things this way, why would any Republican want to agree to anything. A compromise is a victory for BOTH sides. Both sides have to get the credit. If Obama is going to run around claiming that he did something - and claim "victory" that will not work.

It simply will NOT work if any compromise is framed as a defeat for anyone.


This is simple stuff. Obama has to understand this - maybe he doesn't. But clearly this attitude is contributing to Obama's failures.

And now we are back to this weeks garbage from Obama: tweaking the health care bill.


The health care bill has to be repealed - and negotiated out properly from the ground up. The Republicans are not going to agree to tweaking which will hand Obama a victory - one that will hurt the Republicans.

Simple logic. However, if you have to explain something, it is clear tht someone doesn't understand it.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 6:55 PM | Report abuse


All,

One man's troll is another man's Martin Luther King.


You think King was liked?

The democrats HATED HIM.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 6:57 PM | Report abuse

How late can Rick Perry or Marco Rubio get in? Seems late to me already. Or am I wrong?

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 17, 2011 5:57 PM
-------

What makes you think these guys are interested in a 2012 run? Perry is a charismatic guy, as mark_in_austin said, but he has firmly stated that he's not interested in a 2012 run. With so many others wanting to throw their hats in the ring, I can't see the Republican party begging Perry or Rubio to run. Jeb Bush has also said he's not interested.

Posted by: Brigade | January 17, 2011 6:57 PM | Report abuse

Breaking News

from the New York Times

The Arizona Mass Killer

But Jared, a curious teenager who at times could be intellectually intimidating, stood out because of his passionate opinions about government — and his obsession with dreams.

He became intrigued by antigovernment conspiracy theories, including that the Sept. 11 attacks were perpetrated by the government and that the country’s central banking system was enslaving its citizens. His anger would well up at the sight of President George W. Bush, or in discussing what he considered to be the nefarious designs of government.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 7:00 PM | Report abuse

I agree with bsimon1. The Fix went in the toilet after changing the comment system. I'd much rather suffer the trolls. Of course my skin is thicker than some.
--------------------------------------------------------
Without commenting on the thickness of brigade's skin, I agree. Troll Hunter is the perfect answer to those who want to totally ignore someone. Scrolling past works too, but not as well.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 17, 2011 7:03 PM | Report abuse


"According to a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll, 69 percent of the individuals surveyed have not changed their opinion on Arizona’s gun control laws in light of the recent shooting where six individuals lost their lives. The same group also did not largely support the theory pushed by several pundits and politicians that Sarah Palin and her political rhetoric were to blame. In contrast, 59 percent believe that the former Governor’s use of crosshairs on a political map during the 2010 election either had “not much” or “not at all” to do with the shootings."

"The major blame was thrown instead on the mental illness resources available in Arizona. 60 percent of the polled individuals believe that the lack of available support and help to the mentally ill played a “moderate” to a “great deal” in being a factor that caused the tragedy."
(www.examiner.com)

Posted by: Brigade | January 17, 2011 7:05 PM | Report abuse

Brigade, there are reports that Perry IS conducting polling outside of Texas, so he may indeed be angling to get in the race (if he does, I would expect Palin to endorse him for President):

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/257224/another-texan-running-president-robert-bryce

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 17, 2011 7:10 PM | Report abuse

@Liam re "Can our species figure out how to live in a post materials possession future?"

As Woody Allen said, "Confidence is the thing you have before you understand the problem."

The two factors that have me worried are, first, whether we'll be able to work up the necessary (or even minimally effective) means of turning back the weather phenomena and second, whether we'll be able to get it together socially/institutionally to what may be necessary. Given that our brains are evolved for limited circumstances I'm not very confident here.

Posted by: bernielatham | January 17, 2011 6:45 PM |
..............................

Neither am I, because if you look at how America, especially under Republicans, has responded; it looks like they will always opt for to do the thing that will profit The Rich Now, as their only governing principle.

Now that America makes almost no durable consumer goods; there are fewer and fewer jobs available for the majority of the population who are never intellectually equipped to graduate from college.

Without those good paying factory jobs, they can not raise families, and afford to send the one or two smart kids in the family to college. Furthermore; once you outsource almost all production; you have very little need for production engineers etc; so there goes all those good paying skilled positions. Furthermore, you no longer are involved in the research and development of future generations of durable goods, such as TV sets.

After the 2008 financial collapse; we witnessed a glimpse of the future.

Those with all the money, refused to invest and create jobs, until demand returned; but demand could not return, because so many were out of work, or out of their homes, and had no money coming in, to spur demand.

The only demand was being funded by Government spending, which had to be borrowed from China.

When demand increased, this past holiday season, most of the goods that were purchased, were not made in America; so no wages were paid to Americans for producing those goods.

Until America starts to re industrialize, and get back to paying good wages, it's economy is going to stagnate, and standards of living are going to keep on falling for the entire working class.

When you do not have a working class that is earning good wages, with disposable income, you will not have much of a demand, and the Super Rich have already shown, that they will never spend their money and hire people to jump start the demand cycle.

How much of a demand was there for durable goods in the slave states,
where almost all of the work force were paid nothing, so they could spend nothing.

That is the economic model that The Republicans are dragging back toward.

Every where you look; Police, Fire Dept, and Teachers are being fired, and also being cheated out of their pensions. There goes their health-care coverage too. Republicans are well on the way to destroying the USA.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 7:11 PM | Report abuse

Hey, Dick Cheney just won the Slade Gorton 'Skeletor' look alike contest!

His Vicious Darkness might take a heart away from someone who deserves one, or at least knows what it is for...

"...Cheney said he has not decided whether to seek a heart transplant for what he called his “end-stage heart failure” but said he will make that decision “at some point.”

In his first interview since major surgery to implant an artificial pump to assist his heart, Mr. Cheney also said President Obama is likely to be a one-term president because his policies are unpopular..."

What a jerk. Like Mickey Mantle getting a liver transplant. Hey Dick, try being nice, let someone young, someone who can care for it and make it last have it.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/17/cheney-considering-heart-transplant/?hp

Posted by: shrink2 | January 17, 2011 7:11 PM | Report abuse

Liam

Glad to hear that you are so happy to interfere in the internal affairs of the other party.

Isn't that illegal???


That certainly makes you a fraud.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 7:13 PM | Report abuse

I have my troll blocker off and see that STRF is addressing his posts to "All"

That's verging on the tragic (but without the preceding heroism).

Posted by: bernielatham | January 17, 2011 7:14 PM | Report abuse

I have my troll blocker off and see that STRF is addressing his posts to "All"

That's verging on the tragic (but without the preceding heroism).

Posted by: bernielatham | January 17, 2011 7:14 PM |
..........................

It all goes back to his social exposure, as an infant.

The first baby words that STRF ever uttered were: Attention KMart Shoppers.

Even as a wee baby, he was already a basket case.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 7:21 PM | Report abuse

Can our species figure out how to live in a post materials possession future?"

________________________


This is a typical example of the phrasing of a question pre-determining the answer - a common trap that democrats often fall into.

________________


Clearly, nothing is going to disappear. Instead, things will just gradually get more expensive.

As commodities get more expensive, substitutes EMERGE.


When the price of commodity rises to the price of a substitute, then people switch over to the other product.

So, it's not like there is a crisis, things just get more expensive.

And the substitutes often get mass-produced, technology kicks in - and all of a sudden things are as inexpensive as they were before.


There is a word for this - its called Malthusian. I would hate to call all liberals that word.

.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 7:22 PM | Report abuse

Liam

I wrote that line - and I get a half a penny everytime KMart uses it.


You owe me a half a penny.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 7:26 PM | Report abuse

Bernie

You can be a fool and keep your mind closed.

I really do not care.

I myself read opposing viewpoints - whether I agree or not.

I certainly do not act like a 7 year old girl, telling people not to read other opposing viewpoints. What are you doing, running a clique for little girls?


Bernie - for you, you promised ALL of us that you would leave the blog. To this day, you have failed to live up to your word. They have a word for that - LIAR. So will you continue to be a LIAR or will you live up to your word?


Thank you.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 7:29 PM | Report abuse

STRF is very proud that he was a KMart Blue Baby Special basket case.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 7:29 PM | Report abuse

Liam

I suppose you are unable to understand all the calls for civility


Makes sense.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 7:33 PM | Report abuse

We are losing a part of the cultural heritage of this nation by throwing aside Robert E. Lee's Birthday.


AND I don't like how they combined Lincoln's Birthday and Washington's Birthday - into a vague Presidents Day that is void of personality.

____________


This calendar is NOT working.


___________


We need to move the Martin Luther King day to March 21-25 for the Selma March.


AND bring back SEPARATE HOLIDAYS, TWO 3-DAY WEEKENDS for Lincoln's Birthday and Washington's Birthday.


This MUST BE DONE IMMEDIATELY


Also, the Federal deficit should have to come down to 300 Billion - that should be the condition for raising the debt limit - Congress should pass it and make Obama (big spender) sign it.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 7:39 PM | Report abuse

STFR, I can understand the calls for civility from a Triple Spacing Cadet such as yourself. You are the soul of civility.

Without you Chivalry and Courtesy would perish, never to return. I understand that God shaped Ms. Manners out of one of your ribs!

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 7:39 PM | Report abuse

Liam

If that triple-spacing was black, you wouldn't object.

Instead, you see white space and you go nuts.

You are racist.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 7:42 PM | Report abuse

Robert E. Lee was not an American. He was the Tao of his day, who abandoned his country, for another, and then waged vicious assaults on his mother land.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 7:42 PM | Report abuse

Liam

You probably think that George Washington should be purged from the history books because he owned slaves. Lots of them.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 7:46 PM | Report abuse

STRF I have to go. It is dinner time, but seriously; seek some professional help. You are an intelligent guy, but you are at a dangerous crossroads with your mental state.
Your racial hatred of all black people is a clear sign that you are close to becoming another Jared Loughner.

You do not have to continue going down that path. Get the help you need.

Good night.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 17, 2011 7:47 PM | Report abuse

In addition to Dupnik and Krugman (all but ignored in today's NYT article on how little Palin was being blamed), there was Michael Daly at New York Daily News or Thom Hartmann on KTLK and WWRL, not to mention Markos Moulitsas at Daily Kos.

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 17, 2011 7:48 PM | Report abuse

Liam

There you go again - with the False Charges of Racism

Unbelievable - one asks you for civility and out you go with the RACE CARD.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 7:56 PM | Report abuse

All,

A moment of clarity.


STRF is getting off some truly hilarious material...don't read more than a line or two but that was a coffee spitter there.LMAO

STRF proclaiming a moment of clarity...I mean that is really rich....

Posted by: rukidding7 | January 17, 2011 7:58 PM | Report abuse

From Eric Alterman...

"In the wake of so much speculation regarding the motives of a murderous madman—something none of us can ultimately know—it is worth taking a look at just what have been the extremes of discourse that help legitimate hatred in our society, and could, conceivably, lead some to believe in the legitimization of violence. The role, in recent times, of Glenn Beck is a particularly useful vehicle for examining this question.

When, for instance, Mr. Beck posits the outrageous notion that President Barack Obama “has a deep-seated hatred for white people, or white culture,” including, say, his mother and the grandparents who raised him, Beck sounds like a madman to most of us. But not only do his views represent a consensus among many of his Fox colleagues and viewers, they also were actually endorsed by the network owner, Rupert Murdoch.

Between Beck’s television program and his even less restrained daily radio broadcast, Fox is supporting the spreading of some genuinely worrisome, potentially violence-inducing arguments against America’s president. Beck feels no compunction in terming the president the leader of an “army of thugs” and comparing the country under his presidency to “the damn ‘Planet of the Apes.’” Beck has promoted a 1936 book, The Red Network, written by Elizabeth Dilling, in which the author claims that “un-Christianized” “colored people” are “savages” and that “American Negroes have acquired professions, property, banks, homes, and produced a rising class of refined, home loving people” thanks to the “American government and the inspiration of Christianity.”..."

more here:

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2011/01/ta011311.html

Posted by: bernielatham | January 17, 2011 8:11 PM | Report abuse

The left was irrationally blaming Rush Limbaugh too.

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 17, 2011 8:16 PM | Report abuse

Clarity is good.

__________________


Martin Luther King Day basically came about as a result of INTIMIDATION POLITICS


What we had was a bunch of people running around the nation - and if you didn't agree to the holiday they wanted - you were CALLED A RACIST.


Wow - sure sounds like THE FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM COMING FROM THE OBAMA PEOPLE.


The history of this holiday is what it is - THE HISTORY OF INTIMIDATION POLITICS.


The liberals write their own history - if they behave one way, put it right into the history books. Portray Obama for the LIAR he is. Bipartisanship and Compromise - that was what Obama was committed to - right???


BAIT and SWITCH, INTIMIDATION POLTICS, paid internet trolls harassing people on the blogs who are simply trying to exercise their Freedom of Speech.


wonderful, Obama, how is that stimulus website going???


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 8:45 PM | Report abuse

Don't ban anybody.

Don't get drawn into disputing lunacy with either the port or starboard side knuckleheads. If you do, say it once, maybe twice, not thrice into the breech with clowns.

If you must respond, do it Mel Brooks (vs. the youknowwhos; cf.: "The Producers") style, with a quick mock, a short joke. Pace Woody: "This laugh-track kills (oops) buttheads."
http://27.media.tumblr.com/oW5E9lxRrock0fckrous9BpWo1_400.jpg

Scroll or TrollHunt.

Channel your inner Limsinca.

Posted by: tao9 | January 17, 2011 9:05 PM | Report abuse

Pretty quite in here... everybody must be watching Palin on Hannity with reverence.

Posted by: TominColorado | January 17, 2011 9:08 PM | Report abuse

Banning discussions are boring. Demands that other posters be banned are whiney and immature. We have Kevin's tool. Use it and shot fock up.

And seven screens of posts making aggrieved whines about phony wrongs done and complaining about non-Conservative Things being posted, each one declaring intent to depart in huff .. Just do it already, would you?

HEY QUARTERBACK. If you want to read only positions you agree with and you want to see liberals banned, just mosey over to freerepublic or redstate and shot fock op. You'll have everything you want there. Pure echo chamber, nobody ever pointing out historical facts that don't jibe with your miserable ideology. And anyone posting a liberal thought gets purged. You little Stalinist, you.

And hey, guys, Fix history is boring. Cillizza's solution is worse than the disease and the bannings over there reflected naked favoritism.

Thanks to Kevin we don't need to read posters we don't like nor posters like RFR who only come to disrupt. Just use Troll Hunter and shot fock op.

Marco Rubio? You're joking.

Posted by: caothien9 | January 17, 2011 9:11 PM | Report abuse

Quiet not "quite" above. My spelling, pluralization and punctuation have been "carp" all day long.

Posted by: TominColorado | January 17, 2011 9:14 PM | Report abuse

Some of us conservatives are simply highlighting the irrational favoritism in Greg's banishments too.

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 17, 2011 9:16 PM | Report abuse

Martin Luther King Day basically came about as a result of INTIMIDATION POLITICS. What we had was a bunch of people running around the nation - and if you didn't agree to the holiday they wanted - you were CALLED A RACIST.

At some point, this kind of behavior from adults has to be seen as out-of-bounds.


Wow - sure sounds like THE FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM COMING FROM THE OBAMA PEOPLE.


The history of this holiday is what it is - THE HISTORY OF INTIMIDATION POLITICS. The liberals write their own history - if they behave one way, put it right into the history books. Portray Obama for the LIAR he is. Bipartisanship and Compromise - that was what Obama was committed to - right???


BAIT and SWITCH, INTIMIDATION POLTICS, paid internet trolls harassing people on the blogs who are simply trying to exercise their Freedom of Speech.


wonderful, Obama, how is that stimulus website going???

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 9:21 PM | Report abuse

Bernie,

Has Mr. Alterman ever been seen in the same room with Mr. Resounding Gong or Dr. Clanging Cymbal, PhD.?

I didn't think so.

If Glenn Beck sparks the next Civil War, I'll be the first one to tell you I was wrong.

And why does Alterman hate Black Christians?

The trope's so old even I can do it.

Posted by: tao9 | January 17, 2011 9:24 PM | Report abuse

LOL at 9:11PM comment.

"shot fock up"... he explained!

Posted by: TominColorado | January 17, 2011 9:30 PM | Report abuse

"Banning discussions are boring."

Listen. To. This. Man.

When it comes to knowing boring, he's Elvis!

{{{grammar too!}}}

Posted by: tao9 | January 17, 2011 9:41 PM | Report abuse

Tom

Some of the liberals only like to gang up on people.

The Obama paid trolls might be at Martin Luther King events - who knows.

In any event, they really hate discussing any idea that challenges their belief system, which apparently is really fragile these days.

It is astonishing the reactions.

I really think that is it - it must take a great deal of closed-mindedness and refusal to recognize facts in order to hold onto liberal ideas.


The PRESSURE to hold onto those views, even though facts to the contrary keep on coming - it must be tough.

That is why I am convinced that liberals hold their views together on one basis: they have convinced themselves that they are superior to other people because they hold liberal views. Feeding the ego is what holds together these belief systems.

How else can a person so consistently ignore economics - or how the country is going to pay for all these liberal ideas?

How is it that so few liberals concern themselves with the costs of the programs they so desperately want? They ignore the costs. They ignore the taxes.

The liberals keep on forgetting that if money gets diverted to taxes, that money does not buy something else. So, the liberals have convinced themselves that they know better how to spend other people's money. Better than the people whose money it is.


These lines of discussion are often rejected outright. The costs are not relevant. The deficits are not relevant. The budgets are meaningless.


However, tell a liberal that they have to stop spending, or cut back - OH that is the most horrible thing one can say to a liberal.

Why do you think that is the case???

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 9:50 PM | Report abuse

Ross Douthat had a stopped clock moment in his latest NYT column. Says Palin and the press should have a trial separation. Worth the read.

He points out that she keeps complaining about the media (how many times is "lamestream media" supposed to be funny? Is she speaking to an audience of third graders?) yet doing everything in her power to keep herself in the press, even keeping her rapidly-growing family in the spotlight.

At the same time the press keeps pointing out her unsuitability for public office yet analyzing her every move in that direction.

They should go their separate ways.

Conservatives, for want of a more accurate and less complimentary word, crow about others' fascination with her. As though so divisive a figure could be expected to be ignored.

As time goes by o/~ fewer and fewer like her, and those who do become fiercer in their loyalty. To the uneducated, and the truly hateful, Palin is the figure of a lifetime. To the rest of us she's someone to watch with trepidation.

But Douthat's right. The press needs to stop pretending she's any more politically relevant than Britney Spears and the rest of us should stop pretending she has a shot. Her only potential for future significance is to scuttle the 2012 GOP presidential and that needs about as much help as the Titanic needed to sink after the keel broke.

Posted by: caothien9 | January 17, 2011 9:52 PM | Report abuse

Blessed be the single-spaced paragraphs,
For they shall obtain response.

Posted by: tao9 | January 17, 2011 10:00 PM | Report abuse

Liam:

""He was the Tao of his day, who abandoned his country, for another, and then waged vicious assaults on his mother land.""

I assume you meant cao, not tao. Otherwise this would be a pretty viscious slander rather than simply a fact.

Posted by: ScottC3 | January 17, 2011 10:03 PM | Report abuse

I think he meant Tao - comparing Robert E. Lee to Tao.

___________________


One other point - the New York Times is reporting that the Arizona Mass Murderer hated Bush.

So that makes him an Obama-loving liberal.

Careful liberals - your heads are about to explode.

From the liberal New York Times:

But Jared, a curious teenager who at times could be intellectually intimidating, stood out because of his passionate opinions about government — and his obsession with dreams.

He became intrigued by antigovernment conspiracy theories, including that the Sept. 11 attacks were perpetrated by the government and that the country’s central banking system was enslaving its citizens. His anger would well up at the sight of President George W. Bush, or in discussing what he considered to be the nefarious designs of government.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 10:07 PM | Report abuse

In addition to Dupnik and Krugman (all but ignored in today's NYT article on how little Palin was being blamed), there was Michael Daly at New York Daily News or Thom Hartmann on KTLK and WWRL, not to mention Markos Moulitsas at Daily Kos.

==

Hardly anyone "blamed" Palin. It was Loughner pulled the trigger. Get a grip.

Palin wrote numerous incitements and firearms metaphors in the last few years. She even named Giffords as someone to be put in the crosshairs. Giffords presciently remarked on the potential consequences. Giffords got a bullet through her brain.

If you think everyone should just ignore the connection, you're nuts.

If Harry Reid had gotten shot (another "WOO HOO!" opportunity for you) would it have been unfair or biased to mention Angle?

Both the map and Angle' Second Amendment solutions talk were close enough to criminal incitement that both should have been called in for questioning and at least Angle should have been arrested. The Nevada GOP should have rescinded her nomination.

But since that kind of talk riles up the GOP base, and since no number of massacres will do anything to temper America's irresponsibility with violent rhetoric, much less with guns, it'll be business as usual, assassination incitement and all, by the end of the month.

Posted by: caothien9 | January 17, 2011 10:08 PM | Report abuse

One other point - the New York Times is reporting that the Arizona Mass Murderer hated Bush.

So that makes him an Obama-loving liberal.

Careful liberals - your heads are about to explode.

From the liberal New York Times:

But Jared, a curious teenager who at times could be intellectually intimidating, stood out because of his passionate opinions about government — and his obsession with dreams.

He became intrigued by antigovernment conspiracy theories, including that the Sept. 11 attacks were perpetrated by the government and that the country’s central banking system was enslaving its citizens. His anger would well up at the sight of President George W. Bush, or in discussing what he considered to be the nefarious designs of government.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 10:10 PM | Report abuse

I assume you meant cao, not tao. Otherwise this would be a pretty viscious slander rather than simply a fact.

==

Hate to be the bearer but opinions you don't like don't quite meet the metric for "vicious assaults."

For a guy who picks at so many nits I others' posts you're pretty damned sloppy with your own.

Posted by: caothien9 | January 17, 2011 10:13 PM | Report abuse

Sure, I left Boston for the Mohawk Valley but that's a little strong.

And I'm still a Sox fan for Ho's sake.

Posted by: tao9 | January 17, 2011 10:19 PM | Report abuse

Bernie:

""Given that our brains are evolved for limited circumstances I'm not very confident here.""

The very population trends that Liam highlighted and which prompted the above don't seem to me to support the notion that the human brain is not very good at adapting to a wide variety of circumstances.

Posted by: ScottC3 | January 17, 2011 10:20 PM | Report abuse

Cao -

You did get caught in a rare grammar mistake. You should own it.

I disagree with you that the Fix history is boring. In fact, you were obnoxious and contributed little of substance to that blog for years.

You teamed up with the 8-10 Obama paid trolls and attacked people without mercy - many times within minutes of their comments appearing on the blog.

Yea, I could give you some hyperbole here, but I won't compare you to a cyber-SS or anything like that.

Cillizza killed his own blog. Sort of like a internet-lemming. However, Cillizza decided to put little effort into the moderation of his own comments section.

I think Chris made a mistake. His blog got him noticed, then he killed it. Not a good idea.

However, the Obama paid trolls were running wild for a long time.

Anyway, all this is relevant because the Fix refugees ended up in this shantytown of a blog.

For a time, you were unable to find us and that was a good thing. Then 12Bar sought to destroy this blog, and purposely brought you here knowing full well what your behavior would be. She wrecked this place on purpose. She hates herself, so she has to destroy everything around her. You provide her with a great cover. She just invites you in, know you will be destructive. So she can be destructive without actually doing the destruction.

Anyway, as the Obama campaign geers up again - I just wonder what they will do with their paid troll operation again. I suspect they will be back in full force soon enough - throwing around the harassment and the false charges of racism like it was 2008 all over again.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 10:23 PM | Report abuse

claw:

""In addition to Dupnik and Krugman (all but ignored in today's NYT article on how little Palin was being blamed), there was Michael Daly at New York Daily News or Thom Hartmann on KTLK and WWRL, not to mention Markos Moulitsas at Daily Kos.""

I noticed that too. It was a typically dishonest piece from the NYT. It mentioned that critics accused the NYT and, specifically, Krugman of advancing the meme, but then went on to quote from a NYT editorial as a defense, and completely ignored what Krugman said. And of course it ignored the others you mention above.

Posted by: ScottC3 | January 17, 2011 10:28 PM | Report abuse

The New York Times lied.

The Obama put on a full-press smear campaign against the Tea Party.

It is amazing how the New York Times has been pushed aside in favor of the internet campaigns. Yea, Krugman picked up on it, however the real attacks came from the Obama democratic talking points being emailed out - and repeated thousands of times all over the country.

Within minutes, those talking points were already on this blog. Liam attempted to cover his smear by saying he was quoting a Cleveland newspaper.

OH yea, a random selection from a newspaper that just happens to link a mass murder to Sarah Palin - and he claims he just copy-and-pasted a newspaper article into a blog.

It was a purposeful smear campaign.

What was even worse - the President of the United States sat SILENT while his people carried out a vicious smear campaign for 5 days.

Not very Presidential - more like a third world dictator.

Obama after being silent for days, then tried to be the hero in a Memorial Service that no one was willing to tone down - one that became a political rally cheering a dude who just carried out a 5 day smear campaign.

This is how the liberals are running the government. Political opponents can be smeared. False Charges of Racism can be leveled.

Intimidation politics are all over this nation. A far cry from the post-racial and bipartisan atmosphere promised by the democrats and Obama.

Instead of delivering, Obama is handing us the exact opposite - a bait and switch betrayal of democracy itself.

Obama even uses a mass murder as an excuse to attack his enemies - this is worse than anything Nixon ever did. The Nixon metaphors are all over the place - bombing third countries during a war, and keeping enemies lists. Operations against domestic political opponents which most Americans believe to be out-of-bounds.


On this Martin Luther King day, the charge has to be made: does Obama really believe that his race allows him to break rules which whites follow ???

Even worse - does Obama think he can break rules because of his race - while Obama attacks whites for doing the same thing???


Obama has been using his race for political gain. It is about time the liberals acknowledge that.

It is not post-racial. It is unAmerican.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 10:41 PM | Report abuse

Wow I turned off TH for a moment and saw a blog that appears to be 75% repeat posts from 37th. Same drivel he posted at Fix, too, same thing for years now.

I don't imagine anyone who wandered in here, ignorant of TH, would bother to register. It seems deliberately intended to make the comments completely unreadable.

Thanks yet again to Kevin for diligent work to make this place legible to the cognoscenti (and BTW it still crashes iCabMobile on my iPad, but I'm back on Chrome now)

But Greg you really need to do something to reduce the noise level. It's not about political opinions at all, this is jamming, like the Soviets used to do to radio stations. Banning won't work, he's too determined and doesn't take hints. You should have the Post's legal department write his ISP. A legal notice on letterhead will shut down the jamming permanently.

Posted by: caothien9 | January 17, 2011 10:57 PM | Report abuse

I must have missed where Britney Spears was a Governor and VP candidate.

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 17, 2011 11:03 PM | Report abuse

* Interesting: House Republicans begin saying the burden is on President Obama to detail the spending cuts we'll need to pursue in order to rein in the deficit.

==

Maybe Boehner mislaid his bourbon bottle long enough to figure that that there's no way the GOP can come up with a hundred extra-large in spending cuts.

Even Gates says it's time to cut defense spending. Just watch the Republicans howl. Imagine how red McCain would get.

Posted by: caothien9 | January 17, 2011 11:06 PM | Report abuse

You also missed the part where Palin abandoned her post halfway through one term, Jake. She's a quitter.

Posted by: caothien9 | January 17, 2011 11:10 PM | Report abuse

Cao

Are you kidding - your comments are the most obnoxious, vicious and horrible.

Because of you and the Obama paid trolls, I just post past all the liberals.

Are you completely unaware of the reception of your comments? OR has your homosexuality made you completely insensitive ???

What are you doing with the little boys in SouthEast Asia???

There must be some flaw in your personality related to your homosexuality which prevents you from posting civil comments - or the fact that your family refuses to accept your homosexuality.


Can you think about that?

And people do not pretend that you did not move to Vietnam for any other reason beside the little boys. You should be investigated.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 17, 2011 11:13 PM | Report abuse

Rain,

If you hold to single-space I'll sue Ed Schultz's @ss, and also his Face as co-defendent, each for $100,000.00. So we split $200Large plus fees, and everyone at PL is happy.

Call me.

Posted by: tao9 | January 17, 2011 11:17 PM | Report abuse

Hey, Scott.

Why don't you just paste from Krugman's post and highlight the part where he accuses Palin. As aggrieved as you are and as many words of snark as you've devoted to this persecution mania, that would be relatively simple and effortless.

But you won't, because he didn't accuse her.

Funny you hate the NYT. They carry the only conservative in print who isn't a complete yahoo. Oh, wait, you probably prefer yahoos. Never mind.

Posted by: caothien9 | January 17, 2011 11:18 PM | Report abuse

Budgeting: Start by flipping back through previous year budgets until costs equals estimated revenues.
Adjust from there, some projects will be finished, other critical ones may need to be added.
Then legislate separate bills by department.
I can find whole agencies to cut... but I'm mean that way.

Posted by: TominColorado | January 17, 2011 11:20 PM | Report abuse

Dang!

Deals off Rain. Now I see what WB & ddawg were on about...albeit confusing you for QB.

Posted by: tao9 | January 17, 2011 11:23 PM | Report abuse

At least Boehner pays for his own alcohol:

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/03/pelosis-party-plane/

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 17, 2011 11:29 PM | Report abuse

I can find whole agencies to cut... but I'm mean that way.

==

Yeah a populace that didn't know how to read or write .. Bet you get wet just thinking about it.

Posted by: caothien9 | January 17, 2011 11:37 PM | Report abuse

"A Democratic Congresswoman has been shot in the head; another dozen were also shot.

"We don’t have proof yet that this was political, but the odds are that it was. She’s been the target of violence before. And for those wondering why a Blue Dog Democrat, the kind Republicans might be able to work with, might be a target, the answer is that she’s a Democrat who survived what was otherwise a GOP sweep in Arizona, precisely because the Republicans nominated a Tea Party activist. (Her father says that “the whole Tea Party” was her enemy.) And yes, she was on Sarah Palin’s infamous “crosshairs” list."
{...}

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/page/3/

Odds are also that's as close an accusation as a coward and liar would level. Since Mr. Krugman is both...

QED

Posted by: tao9 | January 17, 2011 11:37 PM | Report abuse

I think what I described above is what Texas does (they only meet every two years).

Prior to the session the Comptroller sends an estimate of 2-year revenues and that's all they can spend (but they have built up about a 9bn rainy-day fund that they didn't use 2 yrs ago). This session will entail some heavy cutting... the estimated revenues vs agency requests deficit is 15-25bn (various sources)

Posted by: TominColorado | January 17, 2011 11:40 PM | Report abuse

In the US the Federal Dept of Education doesn't teach kids. That's a local/county school district budget & tax system.

Yes, I would eliminate the entire the US Department of Education... teachers and kids would never know it was gone, except for some nationalized tests that an accounting firm could tally and publish.

Posted by: TominColorado | January 17, 2011 11:50 PM | Report abuse

Just checked details on Fed Dept of Ed.
From Wikipedia: Created by the Department of Education Organization Act (Public Law 96-88) and signed into law by President Jimmy Carter on October 17, 1979, it began operating on May 16, 1980

Heck, I graduated HS several years before it even existed. US Students international test scores have fallen steadily since then.

Posted by: TominColorado | January 17, 2011 11:59 PM | Report abuse

Tao

Do it. What is the basis of this suit?

Ed really doesn't bother me, because I have a remote control - and I can turn directly to Fox News.

I do listen to Chris Matthews to see how inconsistent he is. I thought he had so much potential years ago. To see him veer off into his partisan nonsense is really a waste. He has become pointless.

So at times Ed is on for about 30 seconds before I can grab the remote and change the channel to Fox News immediately.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 18, 2011 12:04 AM | Report abuse

Rain,

Withdrew the deal immediately after your sans-hinges SEAsia boys rant.

That schlitz don't cut it even single- spaced.

Damage's done, man...but could you please just put some gauze on that lesion.

Cut the merde.

Posted by: tao9 | January 18, 2011 12:12 AM | Report abuse

And yes, she was on Sarah Palin’s infamous “crosshairs” list."

==

That isnt an accusation, not even insinuation, that's a a matter of record. Giffords was indeed on Palin's map. Do you dispute it?

Show some spine, Tao. Rise to the level of pre-grovel Pawlenty and write that Palin shouldn't have posted that map nor written about reloading. I'm willing to lead the way by writing that the Democratic gubernatorial who said his opponent should be put up against the wall and shot should have had his nomination withdrawn. Can you follow suit?

Posted by: caothien9 | January 18, 2011 12:16 AM | Report abuse

Goodnight guys, thanks for the dialog.
Endeavor to Persevere.

Posted by: TominColorado | January 18, 2011 12:22 AM | Report abuse

Just checked details on Fed Dept of Ed.
From Wikipedia: Created by the Department of Education Organization Act (Public Law 96-88) and signed into law by President Jimmy Carter on October 17, 1979, it began operating on May 16, 1980

Heck, I graduated HS several years before it even existed. US Students international test scores have fallen steadily since then.

==

Ummm, who was president in 1980?

And which anti-education party has held the presidency for two thirds of the years since?

Posted by: caothien9 | January 18, 2011 12:25 AM | Report abuse

No, caothien9, I did not miss that; nor am I Jake. As you know, Obama also abandoned his Senate seat, less than halfway through one term. He's a quitter.

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 18, 2011 12:34 AM | Report abuse

Obama resigned to run for higher office. That isn't quitting, that's promotion.

Obama is now the leader of the free world.

Palin is now an unemployed rabble-rouser who operates over Twitter.

See the difference?

Posted by: caothien9 | January 18, 2011 12:44 AM | Report abuse

Well, I do know that Carter was President in 1980. Reagan won in 1980 and was inaugurated on January 20, 1981, the same day that the Iranian hostages were released. In the 30 years since, the Republicans have held the White House 2/3rds of the time (thank God).

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 18, 2011 12:47 AM | Report abuse

Obama promised the people of Illinois that he would serve out his full term. Like everything else, he lied. I would also argue that Palin's job of "rabble-rouser" using your words (she is currently employed by Fox News) and stopping Obama is much more important than his job of screwing everything up.

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 18, 2011 12:55 AM | Report abuse

But she isn't stopping Obama, Jake. DADT is repealed, ACA passed, 9/11 workers got some help.

She's nipping at his ankles, and that's all. And she's ensuring his reelection more than anyone, including he himself. By fomenting dissent by the tea party that gets unelectable people nominated, and people who when they do win only serve to discredit the GOP.

So now you have. Freshman GOP Senator who wants to bring back child labor. Democrats have their attack ads pre-written. Rock on, Sarah. Four! More! Years!

Posted by: caothien9 | January 18, 2011 1:10 AM | Report abuse

Her job is not over yet.

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 18, 2011 1:46 AM | Report abuse

That's for sure

Posted by: caothien9 | January 18, 2011 1:54 AM | Report abuse

It's come to this:

There was a time when the NAALCP claimed that to shorten or abreviate Doctor Martin Luther King, Junior's glorious, federally mandated holiday, in any way, was a sign of disrespect and even racism.

Now, it's just MLK day.

For shame!

Posted by: battleground51 | January 18, 2011 7:08 AM | Report abuse

News of moderates:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/17/AR2011011703799.html?wpisrc=nl_fed

Posted by: mark_in_austin | January 18, 2011 7:31 AM | Report abuse

Tao

Your offer came in after that comment which you cite - it was accepted

File away !!!


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 18, 2011 7:37 AM | Report abuse

I'm thinking that the focus of Tea Party anger and disgust now shifts to the Republicans, as the latter offer nothing but excuses for their failure to accomplish what they were installed in the House to do.

Posted by: rhallnj | January 18, 2011 7:52 AM | Report abuse

"All, I will update you on plans for the overhaul of the comments section this week, as soon as I have a clear sense of the details and timing."

I'll be interested to see what the entails. It will be the end of the Troll Hunter, alas, but that's always been imperfect, as it does not run on Internet Explorer (and I'm pretty sure the reason why folks like QB didn't use Troll Hunter was because they gotta use IE, or some such thing).

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | January 18, 2011 8:09 AM | Report abuse

Palin, from the Guardian...

"In the interview, Palin – who is a paid Fox analyst – repeatedly said she was not attempting to defend herself. "This isn't about me," she said, "My defence wasn't self-defence, it was defending those who were falsely accused."

But in the course of the half-hour interview, she did not name Giffords or any of her fellow victims."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/18/sarah-palin-defends-blood-libel

That sums it up rather well.

Two other bits worthy of note. First, the wording she used (re possible run) that again pushed the idea that she might do the most good in some other capacity (which, as I've said, is her PR out when the folks on her own side convince her that she is going to do more damage to the party and herself if she does run).

Second, that the right wing media (FOX, Limbaugh, Hannity, Levin) are under threat of being oppressed in speech. Not sure how this will work but likely swat teams from the ATF and teachers' unions busting down the radio/TV station doors and hauling these patriots away to special camps.

Again, the over-arching theme of victimization that permeates the modern conservative movement. We know the historical roots and we understand that it is just this rhetorical style which identifies those who fall in this tradition (see Hofstadter's Paranoid Style in American Politics) but it continues to be quite shocking because it is so disconnected from reality. This extremist and paranoid voice has never been so pervasive nor so well supported by media institutions and financial incentives. It becomes difficult to conceive of any situation where this victim identity would dissipate because it is central to what's going on in the heads of these people.

And it is nuts. Take for example the set of claims that have this form (and they are extremely common):

if it is made law that a gay couple can marry or if it is made law that a gay individual cannot be fired for sexual orientation, or if we are attacked and criticized for defending our religious views related to homosexuality, then such laws or attacks constitute an assault on our religious liberty and we are being victimized.

Who is the real victim is, of course, turned upside down. These people are being denied the "right" to deny others their rights. Excuse me for my total lack of sympathy.

Posted by: bernielatham | January 18, 2011 8:21 AM | Report abuse

Tomasky comments on the historically unique aspect of what this new right wing media system facilitates (and explicitly justifies)... a bench of political figures who are or might run for office but who insulate themselves from every/most journalism entities except those who function as PR agencies for that bench...

"It remains kind of amazing that this very well-known political figure can live an almost totally journalism-free existence. This is completely new in American society. I think now she understood when she quit the governor's job that this, in addition to minting money, which seems to have been priority number one, would be a distinct advantage of not being a current office-holder.

Most people who might seek the presidency are office holders, and so they have to answer questions from the press. If she were still governor, she'd at least be confronted by the statehouse gaggle in Juneau from time to time. If she does run, it'll be interesting to see what kind of exposure to the journalists covering her she permits herself."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/michaeltomasky

And I don't think we know yet just how far the Republican candidates and their PR entities arrayed across radio, TV and the web are going to take this new model of political campaigning. One presumes there is a ceiling of effectiveness but on the other hand, who would have imagined that what we are seeing now would come to be and that so many citizens have so effectively propagandized that they find it OK and even necessary.

Posted by: bernielatham | January 18, 2011 8:36 AM | Report abuse

"Three Republican Party district officials step down, citing increasing venom from conservative 'tea party' rivals."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-officials-fear-20110118,0,1006136.story

Posted by: bernielatham | January 18, 2011 8:44 AM | Report abuse

Trend watch.... I've noticed a growing focus at NRO of positive commentary for Pawlenty.

Posted by: bernielatham | January 18, 2011 8:47 AM | Report abuse

All, Morning Roundup posted:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/01/the_morning_plum_168.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | January 18, 2011 8:49 AM | Report abuse

Good catch, Bernie. Also see the new Palin tidbits in the morning roundup:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/01/the_morning_plum_168.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | January 18, 2011 8:59 AM | Report abuse

Greg, why haven't you banned caothien9?

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 18, 2011 9:09 AM | Report abuse

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