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Posted at 3:48 PM ET, 01/12/2011

Can "paranoid" political culture trigger violence in the unhinged?

By Greg Sargent

I'm going to second Steve Benen's claim that this column by Harold Meyerson is an important addition to the debate over the shooting:

The primary problem with the political discourse of the right in today's America isn't that it incites violence per se. It's that it implants and reinforces paranoid fears about the government and conservatism's domestic adversaries.

Much of the culture and thinking of the American right -- the mainstream as well as the fringe -- has descended into paranoid suppositions about the government, the Democrats and the president. This is not to say that the left wing doesn't have a paranoid fringe, too. But by every available measure, it's the right where conspiracy theories have exploded.

A fabricated specter of impending governmental totalitarianism haunts the right's dreams.

Again, this is why mental illness professionals say that even if we have already concluded that Jared Loughner is a nut, we should still be asking whether the overheated political climate -- and violent, incendiary or paranoid rhetoric in particular -- might have played some kind of role in pushing him over the edge.

As Dr. Marvin Swartz told me yesterday, the key operative insight is that culture can play a role in shaping the delusions of the mentally ill -- so it's entirely appropriate to ask whether our political culture can do the same. In other words, the chief argument from the right -- "Loughner is a nut who is totally detached from reality, so therefore our political climate couldn't possibly be to blame for the shooting" -- is off point. Rather, the question, as Dr. Swartz put it, is this: Can those who are already delusional find their delusions -- and behavior -- further shaped and influenced by overheated political discourse and imagery?

Meyerson makes a similar point today, arguing that the likes of Glenn Beck and Fox News are "responsible for promoting a paranoid culture that makes America a more divided and dangerous land." In reality, Swartz says, the connections between political culture and political violence are poorly understood. But the point is, trying to understand those connections is an entirely legitimate line of inquiry, and we should be using the shooting as a jumping off point for it.

This line of questioning is entirely separate from the narrow battle over whether Sarah Palin or Glenn Beck or any particular personality is specifically guilty of inciting this specific act of violence. You can say No to that question while still pursuing answers to the larger questions at play. Those who are caught up in the back and forth over that narrow blame game -- on both sides -- are missing an opportunity to hash out a much larger set of issues that could have untold consequences later.

By Greg Sargent  | January 12, 2011; 3:48 PM ET
Categories:  House Dems, Political media  
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Comments

@Greg: Have you not made this point eight different times already?

Posted by: sbj3 | January 12, 2011 3:53 PM | Report abuse

"This line of questioning is entirely separate from the narrow battle over whether Sarah Palin... is specifically guilty of inciting this specific act of violence."

There *is* no battle over this - she isn't!

Posted by: sbj3 | January 12, 2011 3:57 PM | Report abuse

"we should still be asking whether the overheated political climate -- and violent and incendiary rhetoric in particular -- might have played some kind of role in pushing him over the edge."

If "fortunate" is the right word, then we are "fortunate" that this kid didn't kill himself or get shot down Saturday. Once he's on his meds and , I hope, questioned in a court of law, we'll learn more about why he went over the edge. The rest, yes, from both Right and Left, is just so much psycho babble and supposition. Although, it is telling how defensive the Right is about the incident.

On another note, good old boy, Rep. Louie Gohmert ( Pinhead from TX) is going to introduce a bill that will allow Comgressman to carry concealed weapons in DC, where they are outlawed. Louie is Barney Fife on steroids, who I guess thinks that his hide is more valuable than any other DC resident.

Posted by: filmnoia | January 12, 2011 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Impending totalitarianism? The far right believes we are already living in it. Entered it long ago.

Posted by: Truthteller12 | January 12, 2011 4:04 PM | Report abuse

"The media let the left get away with murder -- or, more accurately, incitement to murder -- for eight long years and now they want to piously instruct us that we can't say socialist anymore?"

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/310633.php

http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=621

Posted by: sbj3 | January 12, 2011 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, let's all engage in amateur psychology while we have the chance, right?
Mr Sargent this is simply nonsense.

The words you chose are quite insulting and I struggle to resist the temptation to respond in kind. but here's a attempt to take the high ground you've abandonned:

There is nothing "paranoid" about having a grave concern about the direction of my country. there is nothing "paranoid" about believing that nothing less than our freedom is at risk now.

The left in America, including you Mr Sargent, have no problem with things as they are because they reflect what you believe to be "progress". But many of us, at least as well educated and experienced as you and yours, view the status of America with alarm and indignation.

Your essay is simply an attempt to belittle and denigrate those with the temerity to disagree with your view, or the view of that other bastion of epistomological closure, Harold Meyerson.

Simply put you position is that the world is fine as long as America is moving leftward and anyone who objects to that "progress" is descending in suppositions.

Honestly Mr Sargent, can you be any more partisan? Can you be any more insulting?

spare us the self referential claptrap. Try opening your mind, if not your eyes and ears. Try doing what you demand of others: that is that you seek to understand their point of view.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | January 12, 2011 4:10 PM | Report abuse

I said this from the get go.: This guy gets his ideas from places in politics/conspiracy culture that the "overheated climate" you think of doesn't even fathom. Dark quarters. Sarah Palin, Rush, Beck, Bachmann are in the center compared to this guy.

Posted by: Truthteller12 | January 12, 2011 4:11 PM | Report abuse

@filmnoia,

You make a good point. We don't know, even after days of speculation that for some reason has hardened into sure knowledge, what the shooter is going to say about his motivation. Or what his lawyer will say. I doubt the shooter will meet the definition of legally insane, so I'll bet we're going to hear a lot more about his motivation, web sites, friends, etc.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 12, 2011 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Louie is Barney Fife on steroids, who I guess thinks that his hide is more valuable than any other DC resident.

Posted by: filmnoia
______________________

Sadly, he isn't the only one that wants a caste system. James Clyburn (D) implied recently that TSA should exempt members of Congress from screening.

Posted by: Bailers | January 12, 2011 4:12 PM | Report abuse

"A fabricated specter of impending governmental totalitarianism haunts the right's dreams"

The immediate response to this was a call from Rep. Clyburn for a clamp down on speech and from Rep. King for a restrictions on gun rights. In both cases their first instinct was to restrict civil liberties. But Palin, who has no power whatsoever, is the dangerous one.

Posted by: NoVAHockey | January 12, 2011 4:15 PM | Report abuse

It seems that anytime someone shoots a public figure they are literally shut away under lock and key. No contact what so ever with media. I just hope this kid gets his day in court.

Posted by: filmnoia | January 12, 2011 4:15 PM | Report abuse

there is nothing "paranoid" about believing that nothing less than our freedom is at risk now.
------------------------------------------
skip, you couldn't have summed up the difference better.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 12, 2011 4:16 PM | Report abuse

12BArBluesAgain -- perfect rebuttal. Thanks.

Posted by: Greg Sargent | January 12, 2011 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Can "paranoid" political culture trigger violence in the unhinged?

Answer: ONLY if that person is reading the liberal comments on the Plum-line on a daily basis.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 12, 2011 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Just look at this thread conversation that Loughner started and it's obvious that this guy is not in the same league and Beck and Palin. This guy is way beyond that. Beck and Palin are part of the system. He's not even playing the same game as them. My guess is he'd be insulted to be mentioned with them. He's into occult knowledge that he thinks others don't possess

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread591520/pg1

Posted by: Truthteller12 | January 12, 2011 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Liberals are working overtime to slap a generalized "Fairness Doctrine" on American, political discourse. As usual, when they fail to compete well in an ideological arena, they want to invent new rules to hobble the opposition.

It is their very ideas that have incited heated opposition across America. The matter was partially settled in November, 2010. It will be completed in 2012. All peacefully, of course. This is what has unhinged liberals. They had it all just two years ago and now they are losing it because their saviors have proven to be false prophets.

This is why the Democrat media immediately tried to turn the Arizona tragedy into a weapon. Liberals are desperate to regain their, dire losses.

Smearing their opposition with muck is one of their favorite tactics. It only works if there is some truth involved.

Posted by: battleground51 | January 12, 2011 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Greg, is this a joke?

Did you sleep through the eight years when Bush was president?

Paranoia was absolutely RAMPANT on the left. Bush was going to destroy the country, take away our liberties, declare marshal law, etc, etc., etc! Bush is Hitler! Bush hates black people! On and on and on..

You've got a lot of nerve to sit there and pretend that paranoia is somehow exclusive property of the right.

Posted by: BoiledFrog | January 12, 2011 4:25 PM | Report abuse

@Greg: Have you not made this point eight different times already?

Posted by: sbj3


_______________________________

This is a major problem with Greg Sargent.

When the liberals are wrong and everyone knows it, Greg tries to re-frame the question.


When Greg re-frames the question, he stacks it so somehow he can claim he is right about something.


The point is: Greg is never admitting he is wrong.


It was WRONG for the democrats to embark on a MASSIVE SMEAR CAMPAIGN this weekend. Instead of agreeing, Greg is off on all these side issue - whether the discussion is legitimate, whether this guy needs more help, and whether Sarah Palin is using the right words.


Seriously


What is the point of doing this? It is childish to ATTEMPT TO DIVERT THE ISSUE. It doesn't help the discussion. It doesnt lead to any civility. It doesn't lead to anything except people saying to themselves that it is a waste of time to read half the stuff Greg writes.


Greg would be wise to cut out that half - cut out the stuff in which he is insisting on deceptions, cut out the stuff in which he changes one word, and that changes the question.


OK, Greg needs to change alot.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 12, 2011 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Boilfrog writes


Greg, is this a joke?

Did you sleep through the eight years when Bush was president?

Paranoia was absolutely RAMPANT on the left. Bush was going to destroy the country, take away our liberties, declare marshal law, etc, etc., etc! Bush is Hitler! Bush hates black people! On and on and on..

You've got a lot of nerve to sit there and pretend that paranoia is somehow exclusive property of the right.

__________________________

100% Correct A+

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 12, 2011 4:30 PM | Report abuse

iGun Mania;

Just because the Supreme Court has ruled that every bedwetter in the nation must be allowed to purchase a gun, with no waiting period, does not mean that everyone has to own a gun.

Land of the free, my Arse! Right Wingers have turned the country into a nation of bedwetters who are afraid of their own shadows.

People are far more likely to die in a car accident, than they are going ever need a gun to defend their selves.

So, all you gun hugging right wingers; if you really are concerned about your families ever experiencing an act of lethal violence, instead of buying a gun, have them all stay out of automobiles.

Have them live like The Amish, if you really want to play the odds.

During my seventy years sojourn through life, I have never owned a handgun, and I never will. I also have never known anyone who has been the victim of gun violence, or anyone who has used their gun, to stave off a criminal assault. I have known three families that left their guns loaded, where some of their children got a hold of them, and shot other children.

There is no law against people taking daily baths in their own urine either, but that does not make it something that everyone should do.

Forget about the NRA and the Five Right Wing Stooges on the Supreme Court. They have ended the legal efforts.

Just don't be scared into purchasing handguns. They will not protect you, because you can not leave them around the house fully loaded, and civilians are not professionally trained, or qualified, to sort out who to shoot at, in situations like just happened in Tucson.

There are hundreds of millions of guns in this country. How many more do we need to have in the hands of every trigger happy coward through out the land.

The NRA is really just a lobby for the gun manufacturers, who want to always sell more and more of their lethal products.

You don't need their products. Do not let them scare you into buying one of them, and of going through life, with a fortress mentality.

The best thing we all can do, is to starve the gun industry beast, by not adding to the existing tsunami of loose handguns, that have already engulfed America.

Don't live your lives in constant fear of the homicidal thugs, known as Al Qaeda, because that is what they want you to do.

The same applies to the NRA. Do not let them con you into buying handguns, because they traffic in making us all irrationally afraid, in order to push more of the gun makers products.

You are safer without a gun, than you are with one.

Embrace that truth, instead of the NRA's fearmongering.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 12, 2011 4:30 PM | Report abuse

The topics of interest to this man don't air on TV and radio or in our daily political discourse as most of us understand it. Censoring the internet and obscure newsletters would be the only way to keep him from finding the information that got in his head.

Posted by: Truthteller12 | January 12, 2011 4:34 PM | Report abuse

"there is nothing "paranoid" about believing that nothing less than our freedom is at risk now."

I wonder why you never heard this from the Right when Cheney and Bush were in office? Oh right, the present Prez doesn't look like US, he's not one of US, he's gonna get US back for centuries of racism, but we're "gonna get our country back" - yadda yadda yadda

Go tell your story walkin.

Posted by: filmnoia | January 12, 2011 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, but I found it interesting that bin Laden and Palin both prefer to connect with their flocks and the media via prerecorded video taped speeches.

http://www.thefoldblog.com/2011/01/i-knew-as-soon-as-i-read-former-half.html

Posted by: Chris-TheFold | January 12, 2011 4:35 PM | Report abuse

skippy: "Try doing what you demand of others: that is that you seek to understand their point of view."

Show us how it's done, skippy.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | January 12, 2011 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Obama's people have been engaging in INTIMIDATION POLITICS for 3 years -


ALL the nation hears is FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM.


Colbert King and Eugene Robinson have NOT BEEN FIRED for their outrageous and INFLAMMATORY comments.


Anyway - the left, after getting CAUGHT in a smear campaign, is STILL attacking Sarah Palin today.


They just didn't get the message to knock it off - somehow or another they just don't get it.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 12, 2011 4:39 PM | Report abuse

@Greg - Your argument above and the others that precede it seem likely to be ignored or contested by most folks on the modern right. The posts here and statements from most key conservative media people suggest little desire to take this discussion where you, I and many others think it should go.

There are two fundamental characteristics of the modern right which, I think, have brought about this state of affairs.

First, a strident and nearly universal refusal to publicly accept or even engage criticism, particularly if it originates from "liberals". Never give an inch, always attack is the evolved response in almost all cases whether the subject is re Iraq, torture, fiscal history, media behavior or whatever.

Second, divisive rhetoric intended to engender or increase the mistrust of some Americans against other Americans has been an effective electoral strategy for Republicans for four decades or more and leaders likely see little reason to drop a winning strategy.

But what alternative is there but to continue to try to re-civilize the political culture? If we presume that uncivil rhetorical makes bad behaviors more likely or more prevalent we ought to presume the same sort of result (though opposite in nature) from positive or constructive rhetoric styles.

I think it is precisely this sort of notion which Obama has held as a central tenet of how he ought to proceed re bully pulpit. His "we're all one nation" slogan/idea may not have an immediate causal connection with things people in the country do but just as negative rhetoric has broad consequences so does its opposite.

Posted by: bernielatham | January 12, 2011 4:41 PM | Report abuse

The Media should not be be pointing the finger at her, now says the same shrill Harpy, who kept shrieking over and over that Barack Obama was "palling around with terrorists"

Posted by: Liam-still | January 12, 2011 4:41 PM | Report abuse


Boilfrog writes


Greg, is this a joke?

Did you sleep through the eight years when Bush was president?

Paranoia was absolutely RAMPANT on the left. Bush was going to destroy the country, take away our liberties, declare marshal law, etc, etc., etc! Bush is Hitler! Bush hates black people! On and on and on..

You've got a lot of nerve to sit there and pretend that paranoia is somehow exclusive property of the right.


__________________________


100% Correct . A+


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 12, 2011 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Maybe Coast to Coast AM with George Noory airs some of the stuff this guy is into but that would be the only over the air radio I can think that might touch those topics. If you want to blame anyone in the media it wouldn't be Beck and Fox, it would have to be George Noory.

Posted by: Truthteller12 | January 12, 2011 4:43 PM | Report abuse

@sue,

For the first time, I think I understand skip's pov. Thanks for posting this: "there is nothing "paranoid" about believing that nothing less than our freedom is at risk now."

Since I don't believe skip is unhinged, and since skip says that believing that our very freedom is at risk and that's NOT paranoid, the real title of Greg's piece should be something like:

Can political culture trigger violence in the hinged?

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | January 12, 2011 4:44 PM | Report abuse

skipsailing28 writes
"Yeah, let's all engage in amateur psychology while we have the chance, right?
Mr Sargent this is simply nonsense.

The words you chose are quite insulting and I struggle to resist the temptation to respond in kind. but here's a attempt to take the high ground you've abandonned:

There is nothing "paranoid" about having a grave concern about the direction of my country. there is nothing "paranoid" about believing that nothing less than our freedom is at risk now."


Its clear that skip doesn't like what Greg wrote. What's not clear is whether skip read the source article to which Greg linked, the Myerson op-ed. Here's Myerson's lead paragraph:

"Last October, Glenn Beck was musing on his radio show about the prospect of the government seizing his children if he didn't give them flu vaccines. "You want to take my kids because of that?" he said."

Skip, are you aware of the program to which Mr Beck refers? Do you think he has a valid fear that the government is incarcerating parents who don't get flu shots for their kids? Are there any parents, anywhere in the US, who've been arrested for having unvaccinated children? If you have sources, I'd like to see them. You might share them with Mr Myerson too, as he hasn't heard of this rather massive government overreach (if it exists) either.

Or, perhaps you haven't seen evidence of this either and are coming to realize that perhaps Mr Myerson is correct, in this case anyway, in pointing out that there is some over-the-top hyperbole bordering on the paranoid coming from certain public figures on the right.

Posted by: bsimon1 | January 12, 2011 4:46 PM | Report abuse

I don't know the answer to the question in the title of this thread, but apparently some in the GOP/Right in AZ. are scared by threats of violence from the far-Right.

If the far-Right is trying to purge itself of heretics by threats of violence, is that not a legitimate subject for a political blog: liberal, progressive or whatever?

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | January 12, 2011 4:47 PM | Report abuse

bernielatham in response to your comment at 4:41 PM


Bernie, your own behavior on this blog makes a joke out of your comments.

You engage in the EXACT behavior which you now say is wrong.


A mirror is what you need.


Perhaps if you led the liberals in engaging the right ON THIS BLOG - then maybe you would have a bit of credibility.


Until then, you can take your deceptions and lies elsewhere.


By the way, you promised you were going to leave the blog. we are still waiting for that to happen.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 12, 2011 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Man, Greg, you are really getting rocked for this line of questioning.

I appreciate your continued efforts to grapple with the relationship between the political climate and the shooting. The Blame Game is not productive and rests purely on conjecture. The more difficult task is trying to understand how the shooting is part of a political culture that, on all sides, has come to depend on violent, even apocalyptic rhetoric.

Perhaps when we eliminate blame and causality from the equation, we can begin to think more complexly about Saturday's shootings. At the very least, we can say that Representative Giffords' interview from March 2010 (which sounded on Saturday like a voice from the grave) gives us an opportunity, and yes, even the responsibility, to talk about the political discourse in the country.

Posted by: mercerreader | January 12, 2011 4:52 PM | Report abuse

"You don't need their products. Do not let them scare you into buying one of them, and of going through life, with a fortress mentality."

Liam, that was one righteous rant. I'm reminded of Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. He talks about so many in the US have become so fearful of everyone and everything. The local news is filled with murders, beatings, tainted food cases, etc. etc. We are being taught to be afraid, and it takes a rational mind not to fall into that trap. This fear preys on the gullible and those who either are unwilling or unable to orderly process information. Which of course, makes them a perfect target audience for Fox and right wing radio.

Posted by: filmnoia | January 12, 2011 4:58 PM | Report abuse

"Can political culture trigger violence in the hinged?"

I've been trying to make this point all along. The awful behavior of crazy people sometimes seems political, because politicians and political words are involved, but it isn't political any more than they people who jump from bridges because the devil gave them powers of flight are being religious. The people who cook and eat their own poo (nothing like the smell of home cookin') because the American food supply is impure (only in Portland, right?) well that is not Michael Moore's fault.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 12, 2011 4:59 PM | Report abuse

"Are there any parents, anywhere in the US, who've been arrested for having unvaccinated children?"

Actually arrested? In Europe there have been some case. Here, not sure. Threatened with arrest? Absolutely.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/13/AR2007111301408.html

Posted by: NoVAHockey | January 12, 2011 5:01 PM | Report abuse


Can "paranoid" political culture trigger violence in the unhinged?


Answer: ONLY if that person is reading the liberal comments on the Plum-line on a daily basis.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 12, 2011 5:05 PM | Report abuse

People who do not get their children vaccinated; are unfit to be parents.

Child neglect is child neglect. Something has to be done to protect the children, and something should be done to stop giving crack pot celebrities like that Jenny McCarthy dimwit a platform to spread false rumors about vaccines causing autism.

A frigging air head, former playboy centerfold, gets a platform to spout her dangerous falsehoods. What next: the networks will turn Dr. Oz's show over to Snooki?

Posted by: Liam-still | January 12, 2011 5:08 PM | Report abuse

IDIOTS


There was a smear campaign this weekend - and the liberals REFUSE to state clearly that it was wrong


Obama has NOT spoken out about what HIS PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SAYING


In sharp contrast to the way Obama has issued statements when a Muslim is the suspect.

AND NOW THE LIBERALS ARE CONTINUING TO ATTACK SARAH PALIN


what a joke.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 12, 2011 5:10 PM | Report abuse

Socialism starts with vaccinations, be afraid, be very, very afraid.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 12, 2011 5:10 PM | Report abuse

Liam

You were one of the people on this blog attempting to tie Sarah Palin to the crime in Arizona on Saturday.


Let's hear from you now - are you going to email Sarah Palin and apologize


AND apologize to the Tea Party for the smears?


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 12, 2011 5:12 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to thank the liberals here for adding evidence in support of my thesis. The thesis: the left sees nothing wrong with the direction the country is taking and seeks to castigate anyone who disagrees with their opinion.

Mr Sargent is among the worst at this, but one can't expect much from the leftie writers these days.

Still here's a very good example:
==================
I wonder why you never heard this from the Right when Cheney and Bush were in office? Oh right, the present Prez doesn't look like US, he's not one of US, he's gonna get US back for centuries of racism, but we're "gonna get our country back" - yadda yadda yadda

Go tell your story walkin
=====================

You never heard anything from the right THEN for the same reason you don't hear anything from the right NOW. You aren't listening.

I think it was Douglas Adams who said that the biggest fear in the galaxy was that some day humans would stop using their mouths for long enough for their brains to be engaged.

That's the modern liberal. They have a dogma that explains everything and therefore they must shut out any dissent. If you don't believe me, ask Juan Williams. Care to place bets on how much longer Mara Liason will be welcomed on NPR?

In the case noted above the author rambles on about who knows what but the message is clear: We're correct, you are wrong shut up, sit down and accept the new life we have planned for you. Trust US! its gonna be great.

For folks who are suddenly all concerned about inflammatory rhetoric you seem to have little problem with hurling insults. Do you expect that you can insult the majority of Americans with impunity forever? Apparently so. The denial hyperdrive engine kicked in quickly after the November shellacking. Mavens of the left such as Mr Sargent sought to explain the results by basically insulting the people who disagree with the liberal agenda.

Do you honestly think that you can kid the rest of us about how clever you are when the best response to dissent you've got is what we see on this comment thread? Come now. The insults you spew simply prove to the rest of us how shallow and vapid you are. The shenanigans of this week simply prove how ugly and mean spirited you've become.

If that isn't the image you'd like America to have of the liberal movement then some damage control is in order. If you decide, instead, to continue the stream of insults, then you can expect a string of November shellackings.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | January 12, 2011 5:17 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to thank the liberals here for adding evidence in support of my thesis. The thesis: the left sees nothing wrong with the direction the country is taking and seeks to castigate anyone who disagrees with their opinion.

Mr Sargent is among the worst at this, but one can't expect much from the leftie writers these days.

Still here's a very good example:
==================
I wonder why you never heard this from the Right when Cheney and Bush were in office? Oh right, the present Prez doesn't look like US, he's not one of US, he's gonna get US back for centuries of racism, but we're "gonna get our country back" - yadda yadda yadda

Go tell your story walkin
=====================

You never heard anything from the right THEN for the same reason you don't hear anything from the right NOW. You aren't listening.

I think it was Douglas Adams who said that the biggest fear in the galaxy was that some day humans would stop using their mouths for long enough for their brains to be engaged.

That's the modern liberal. They have a dogma that explains everything and therefore they must shut out any dissent. If you don't believe me, ask Juan Williams. Care to place bets on how much longer Mara Liason will be welcomed on NPR?

In the case noted above the author rambles on about who knows what but the message is clear: We're correct, you are wrong shut up, sit down and accept the new life we have planned for you. Trust US! its gonna be great.

For folks who are suddenly all concerned about inflammatory rhetoric you seem to have little problem with hurling insults. Do you expect that you can insult the majority of Americans with impunity forever? Apparently so. The denial hyperdrive engine kicked in quickly after the November shellacking. Mavens of the left such as Mr Sargent sought to explain the results by basically insulting the people who disagree with the liberal agenda.

Do you honestly think that you can kid the rest of us about how clever you are when the best response to dissent you've got is what we see on this comment thread? Come now. The insults you spew simply prove to the rest of us how shallow and vapid you are. The shenanigans of this week simply prove how ugly and mean spirited you've become.

If that isn't the image you'd like America to have of the liberal movement then some damage control is in order. If you decide, instead, to continue the stream of insults, then you can expect a string of November shellackings.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | January 12, 2011 5:19 PM | Report abuse

WHO ON THE LEFT IS APOLOGIZING FOR THE SMEAR CAMPAIGN ???


WHO IS APOLOGIZING TO SARAH PALIN???

WHO IS APOLOGIZING TO THE TEA PARTY???

Before we get to these side issues which Greg Sargent is desperate to speak about, we need to DISCUSS THE SMEAR CAMPAIGN.


The left needs to address that.


Obama needs to speak OUT against the smear campaign.


All these side issues are are distraction.


The liberals lost the election, and they have been off the deep end ever since.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 12, 2011 5:20 PM | Report abuse

Note to Bsimon: I don't watch TV. I don't listen to Glen Beck.

If you have some concern about things Mr Beck has said, may I suggest that you call him? I understand that his radio show is of the "talk" variety wherein ordinary folks can speak with him directly. I'm certain he'll take your call.

You can then ask him to defend himself instead of laying a rhetorically clumsy trap for me.

Anything else on your mind pal?

Posted by: skipsailing28 | January 12, 2011 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Sullivan quotes a bright tweet re Palin's recorded, flag-infested, marketing thingey...

"If crimes "begin and end with the criminals who commit them," I think Sarah Palin just endorsed a mosque near Ground Zero."

Posted by: bernielatham | January 12, 2011 5:24 PM | Report abuse

I have said over and over, that I doubt if what Sarah Palin said or what was posted on her webpage, had any connection with the actions of a psychotic person in Tucson.

Of course I could be wrong, because anything is possible, and Sarah Palin was able to blame a very young schoolboy, named Barack Obama for domestic terror attacks in the 1960s.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 12, 2011 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Actually arrested? In Europe there have been some case. Here, not sure. Threatened with arrest? Absolutely.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/13/AR2007111301408.html

-------------------------------------------

If you read the article, it says it was a state requirement. Allowing states to pass this sort of law seems perfectly consistent with current Conservative thought.

Posted by: ashotinthedark | January 12, 2011 5:29 PM | Report abuse

The "blame the Tea Party" memo that went out to all Democrat, media operatives was taken to heart and used instantly after the Arizona massacre in the hope that the killer could somehow be tied to Republicans and conservatives. It was a "shoot first, ask questions later" scenario for the Obamaniacs and it has blown up in their faces.

Even the liberal, USA/Gallup poll reveals that it is a losing strategy:

" WASHINGTON — Most Americans reject the idea that inflammatory political language by conservatives should be part of the debate about the forces behind the Arizona shooting that left six people dead and a congresswoman in critical condition, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds".

"And there is little sense that stricter gun control laws in Arizona might have averted the tragedy. Only one in five say that would have prevented the shooting; 72% say tighter controls wouldn't have prevented it".

Oops! It's time to change the subject now!

Posted by: battleground51 | January 12, 2011 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Yes, shrink -- it's part of our freedoms and liberties to have yellow fever epidemics, dammit!

',"The immediate response to this was a call from Rep. Clyburn for a clamp down on speech and from Rep. King for a restrictions on gun rights. In both cases their first instinct was to restrict civil liberties."

This is a good illustration of insanity labelled 'civil liberties.'

King -- an extremely rightwing Republican by the way, seems motivated by the idea that his own skin is at stake, if he doesn't jump at every teabagger command. That is now the issue. Why else would all those AZ Rs resign? They know what's coming. This shooting has only emboldened the far right-- look how much more belligerent the wingers are on here now. All King asked for was that attendees at political gatherings not have weapons within 1000 ft. of a politician.

Really, a quite reasonable request. But reason is no longer permissible in this country, as it has been replaced by a paranoid hysteria where common-sense measures are attacked as 'violations of civil rights.' A pathetic joke, as we watch ourselves rapidly devolving into Somalia and complete anarchy and social breakdown.

Posted by: fiona5 | January 12, 2011 5:34 PM | Report abuse

The right are really not pro-life. They are merely pro-birth. As soon as the babies are detached from the umbilical cords, then to hell with them, and all their health, nutrition, and education needs.

The right want to force women to become impregnated and deliver babies, but no one should then force them to protect those babies from contracting Polio.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 12, 2011 5:36 PM | Report abuse

@battleground: And further

"Most of those surveyed see inflammatory language being used by both Republicans and Democrats. And the Tea Party movement gets slightly less blame than the two major parties, although the difference is too small to be statistically significant.

"Fifty-three percent say Republicans and their supporters have gone too far in using inflammatory language; 51% say that of Democrats; 49% say it of Tea Party supporters."

Posted by: sbj3 | January 12, 2011 5:38 PM | Report abuse

From whence the "Blame the Tea Party" memo? Aliens? Illuminati? Sounds like Rush and his "the killer knows he has the whole of the Democratic Parity's support" paranoia.

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | January 12, 2011 5:39 PM | Report abuse

"Fifty-three percent say Republicans and their supporters have gone too far in using inflammatory language; 51% say that of Democrats; 49% say it of Tea Party supporters."

Posted by: sbj3 | January 12, 2011 5:38 PM

Does this really matter? If each side simply tones down their rhetoric - from this point forward - it doesn't really matter whose rhetoric was more inflammatory in the past, does it? But that doesn't seem to be the point of the discussion ... all I have heard from the right is - 1. There is nothing wrong with anything they have said and 2. Their right to say anything they want is protected by the First Amendment.

Posted by: pragmaticagain | January 12, 2011 5:45 PM | Report abuse

Did any of you catch the recent SNL skit, where John Boehner could be made to cry about any silly little thing, but not at a real tragedy.

It was really prescient, because I notice that he never teared up once, about the shooting of Congresswoman Giffords.

And now comes this: from ThinkProgress.com

"Boehner Hosting RNC Cocktail Party During Tucson Shooting Memorial Service

Tonight, President Obama will deliver a “healing message,” in Tucson, AZ at a memorial service for those who died in the tragic shooting there this weekend. The somber service, which is expected to attract up to 14,000 people, will feature prayers, the playing of the National Anthem, as well as reverent remarks from various officials from both sides of the aisle.

At around the same time, House Speaker John Boehner (R-OK) will be slinging back cocktails with members of the Republican National Committee at a political party he’s hosting at the swanky National Harbor resort in suburban D.C., Roll Call reports:"

Posted by: Liam-still | January 12, 2011 5:45 PM | Report abuse

polls are total bullcrap -- you can manipulate anyone into saying anything by changing a few words in the question, or asking them in another order.

Posted by: fiona5 | January 12, 2011 5:47 PM | Report abuse

Greg,

It has become pathetic how you are desperately trying to hang on to the tattered remains of the monstrous smear the left has mounted. I for one have given up any frail hope that you will ever show any real intellectual honesty or even basic decency and integrity. It is especially rich that you want your loaded questions answered when you have steadfastly refused to answer tough questions or deal with the issues honestly.

Your premise, which you insist be uncritically accepted, that conservatives indulge in hate and eliminationist rhetoric any any disproportionate quality or quantity is ludicrous. Have you ever listented to Olberman or Shultz? Did you sleep from 2000-2008? Have you ever read the comments on your own blog? Oh yes, You have, because your favorite commenters traffic every single day in the most extreme, hateful eliminationist rhetoric imaginable you encourage it. You praise it. You welcome it.

But just for one moment step back from all that and look at this situation. Six murdered and 14 injured by a psychotic who had nothing to do with conservative politics. And four days later you and your depraved movement are. still focused on ring some way, any way to capitalize politically and smear your opponents as hateful and destructive and antiAmerican. You can try to justify this atrocious conduct however you want, but the unvarnished facts are just that simple and damning of your position. You seriously need to step back from the keyboard and do some self assessment. Your own blog is a cesspool of leftist hate speech, and yet you are spending every day insisting that conservatives admit that they create a climate of hate that causes psychotics to kill. Calling g your argument crazy is almost an insult to the crazy.

Posted by: quarterback1 | January 12, 2011 5:50 PM | Report abuse

Dog, Sargent get some new talking points!

The Progressive Left has lost this skirmish. That is why we are hearing the sophomoric tic+tac re: the etymology of "blood libel."

You all shot off your template/prepped mouths (actually IIRC you were spared via dentistry) about a very, very large segment of the American polity. People have been characterized as ignorant, insane, violent, racist, religious bigots, gun-nuts, homophobes, God-freaks (that's Benen's special taunt), eliminationists, ...ad nausem, ad infinitum.

This tactic is done precisely to Shut-Up people who might disagree with the trajectory of the NYT/Pelosi/Krugman vision of the US. They are precisely the people who voted the Dems out of the Houuse. Something must be done!

Let's dialogue? Let's have a conversation?

Sure! But not with you guys. Not today at least.

Perhaps tomorrow; perhaps tonight President Obama will find a TRUE unifying voice. I hope. We'll see.

Now the best you and Myerson and the execrable Mr. Benen can do is raise up the dead corpse of Hofstadter's specious rot of fifty years ago? Paranoid, my butt.

"...narrow battle..."? You wish.

The attempt to portray as accomplices to murder half the population of the country may not be a "blood libel," it's actually nearer in genus to a "high tech lynching," was a naked lie on Saturday, and a naked lie today.

The problem right now for the libelous, smug, condescending Left is that the American people have more than just the "usual suspects" media now, so they know it's a damn, bloody naked lie.

All the weasel-word-salad twisting & the all-over-the-map contextualizing you've been at isn't going to move the needle one click.

Thank you. Carry on.

Posted by: tao9 | January 12, 2011 5:50 PM | Report abuse

Liam, he squeezed off a couple AZ victim related tears this morning as he opened the session of the the |hi:lower| House.

Posted by: shrink2 | January 12, 2011 5:51 PM | Report abuse

quick poll:

which issue did greg flog to death more - this one or the ground zero mosque?

Posted by: sold2u | January 12, 2011 5:51 PM | Report abuse

Greg,

It has become pathetic how you are desperately trying to hang on to the tattered remains of the monstrous smear the left has mounted. I for one have given up any frail hope that you will ever show any real intellectual honesty or even basic decency and integrity. It is especially rich that you want your loaded questions answered when you have steadfastly refused to answer tough questions or deal with the issues honestly.

Your premise, which you insist be uncritically accepted, that conservatives indulge in hate and eliminationist rhetoric any any disproportionate quality or quantity is ludicrous. Have you ever listented to Olberman or Shultz? Did you sleep from 2000-2008? Have you ever read the comments on your own blog? Oh yes, You have, because your favorite commenters traffic every single day in the most extreme, hateful eliminationist rhetoric imaginable you encourage it. You praise it. You welcome it.

But just for one moment step back from all that and look at this situation. Six murdered and 14 injured by a psychotic who had nothing to do with conservative politics. And four days later you and your depraved movement are. still focused on ring some way, any way to capitalize politically and smear your opponents as hateful and destructive and antiAmerican. You can try to justify this atrocious conduct however you want, but the unvarnished facts are just that simple and damning of your position. You seriously need to step back from the keyboard and do some self assessment. Your own blog is a cesspool of leftist hate speech, and yet you are spending every day insisting that conservatives admit that they create a climate of hate that causes psychotics to kill. Calling g your argument crazy is almost an insult to the crazy.

Posted by: quarterback1 | January 12, 2011 5:51 PM | Report abuse

The true nature of the Tea Party Puppet Master.

He pulled their strings, and they danced to his tune, because they are mostly a bunch of Stupid Koch Suckers!
..........................
Per Think Progress

"Fulfilling Father’s Campaign To Segregate Public Schools, Koch Groups End Successful Integration Program In NC

Today in the Washington Post, reporter Stephanie McCrummen detailed how a right-wing campaign in the Wake County area of North Carolina has taken over the school board with a pledge to end a very successful socio-economic integration plan. The integration plan, which created thriving schools in poor African-American parts of the school district along with achieving diversity in schools located in wealthy white enclaves, was a model for the nation. However, Americans for Prosperity (AFP), the Tea Party group founded and funded by billionaire brothers Charles and David Koch, worked with local right-wing financier (and AFP board member) Art Pope to fundamentally change Wake County’s school board:

“I don’t want us to go back to racially isolated schools,” said Shila Nordone, who is biracial and has two children in county schools. “But right now, it’s as if the best we can do is dilute these kids out so they don’t cause problems. It sickens me.”

In their quest to end the diversity policy, the frustrated parents have found some influential partners, among them retail magnate and Republican operative Art Pope. Following his guidance, the GOP fielded the victorious bloc of school board candidates who railed against “forced busing.” The nation’s largest tea party organizers, Americans for Prosperity – on whose national board Pope sits – cast the old school board members as arrogant “leftists.” Two libertarian think tanks, which Pope funds almost exclusively, have deployed experts on TV and radio.

In a way, the Koch brothers are simply fulfilling their father’s legacy. In 1958, Fred Koch — the founder of Koch Industries — joined a group of manufacturing executives and Robert Welch to found the John Birch Society, a virulent far-right group that dominated the civil rights debate. The John Birch Society organized an impeachment campaign against then-Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren for the Brown v. Board decision outlawing racial segregation, and mobilized its supporters to oppose integration of schools on the grounds that mixing black and white would lead to the “mongrelization” of the races. Fred supported the John Birch Society’s anti-civil rights campaign, and wrote a screed denouncing the civil rights movement as communist-inspired.

Charles and David did not only inherit an oil company, they inherited a political philosophy. The Tea Party movement, orchestrated by AFP and other Koch fronts, reflects the paranoid style of the movement started by their father, Fred. As Thom Hartmann has explained, corporate interests have long funded far-right, paranoid movements to continually shift the balance of politics in America. "

Posted by: Liam-still | January 12, 2011 5:52 PM | Report abuse

"all I have heard from the right is - 1. There is nothing wrong with anything they have said and 2. Their right to say anything they want is protected by the First Amendment."

We didn't mean what we said, and we're going to keep saying it.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | January 12, 2011 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Well of course Boner is partying down -- that's all he does, what he's known for in DC -- Orange party boy.

Posted by: fiona5 | January 12, 2011 5:55 PM | Report abuse

@prag: "It doesn't really matter whose rhetoric was more inflammatory in the past, does it?"

Well it certainly does to Greg! - I guess you haven't been reading his posts? In fact, he thinks it is central to the discussion.

Posted by: sbj3 | January 12, 2011 5:57 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for that piece, Liam.

I'll note that these guys are taking a page from the religious right's strategy of running candidates for local positions in school boards, hospital boards, etc so as to gain control and steer policy/law in the direction of their ideology.

Posted by: bernielatham | January 12, 2011 5:57 PM | Report abuse

Greg,

It has become pathetic how you are desperately trying to hang on to the tattered remains of the monstrous smear the left has mounted. I for one have given up any frail hope that you will ever show any real intellectual honesty or even basic decency and integrity. It is especially rich that you want your loaded questions answered when you have steadfastly refused to answer tough questions or deal with the issues honestly.

Your premise, which you insist be uncritically accepted, that conservatives indulge in hate and eliminationist rhetoric any any disproportionate quality or quantity is ludicrous. Have you ever listented to Olberman or Shultz? Did you sleep from 2000-2008? Have you ever read the comments on your own blog? Oh yes, You have, because your favorite commenters traffic every single day in the most extreme, hateful eliminationist rhetoric imaginable you encourage it. You praise it. You welcome it.

But just for one moment step back from all that and look at this situation. Six murdered and 14 injured by a psychotic who had nothing to do with conservative politics. And four days later you and your depraved movement are. still focused on ring some way, any way to capitalize politically and smear your opponents as hateful and destructive and antiAmerican. You can try to justify this atrocious conduct however you want, but the unvarnished facts are just that simple and damning of your position. You seriously need to step back from the keyboard and do some self assessment. Your own blog is a cesspool of leftist hate speech, and yet you are spending every day insisting that conservatives admit that they create a climate of hate that causes psychotics to kill. Calling g your argument crazy is almost an insult to the crazy.

Posted by: quarterback1 | January 12, 2011 5:58 PM | Report abuse

RainForestRising,

I Apologized to ALL THREE,

I ALSO apologized to:
BABY JESUS
Nancy REAGAN
MISS AMERICA
Glen BECK
YOU
KARL RoVE

AM i missing ANYONE?

Please LET ME KNOW

BEcause I FOLLOW EVERYTHING you say!!!!


.

Posted by: savetherest | January 12, 2011 5:58 PM | Report abuse

Apparently some in the Right have recognized a problem and, for whatever reasons, they are not being heard. Here's to them for recognizing it. http://www.digbysblog.blogspot.com/ entitled "Gopers Feeling The Heat".

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | January 12, 2011 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Gee, if I copy & paste the same diatribe three times in five minutes, do I win, too?

:lol:
.

Posted by: jprestonian | January 12, 2011 6:00 PM | Report abuse

RainForestRising,

I KEEP seeing in polls that OBAMA's NUMBER keep improving?

I see him beating EVERY major GOP nominee in POLLS.

I also see that you said that AMERICA rejected HIM.

I DONT KNOW what to do with this INFORMATION.

PLEASE advise on HOW I SHOULD proceed,


.

Posted by: savetherest | January 12, 2011 6:02 PM | Report abuse

I apologize to RainForestGriping for President Obama's rising approval numbers.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 12, 2011 6:07 PM | Report abuse

jprestonian

It's not copying and paste, the WaPo commenting gizmo is sometimes slizzered.

Ethan posts twice every time. RainForest does it alot too.

Posted by: tao9 | January 12, 2011 6:07 PM | Report abuse

After failing to speak out against his people attacking the Tea Party all weekend - Obama can not be the "uniter" tonight.


The roles are too different. Obama failed to handle this situation properly, just like he failed to handle all the terrorists incidents properly.

Obama's people have been engaging in INTIMIDATION POLITICS for 3 years -


ALL the nation hears is FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM.


Colbert King and Eugene Robinson have NOT BEEN FIRED for their outrageous and INFLAMMATORY comments.


Anyway - the left, after getting CAUGHT in a smear campaign, is STILL attacking Sarah Palin today.


They just didn't get the message to knock it off - somehow or another they just don't get it.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 12, 2011 6:10 PM | Report abuse

Of course it can, and the Rabid Right is DEPENDING on it!

Posted by: thomasmc1957 | January 12, 2011 6:11 PM | Report abuse

RainForestGriping is exhibiting pretty much all the same psychotic posting behavior that Jared Loughner did.

It would behove the Post to take extrodinary steps, including ask for the help of the guy's IP and email provider, to shut him down, or they might very well end up being asked: why did you continue to allow that guy to post all those psychotic rants, even after you said you had banned him?

Posted by: Liam-still | January 12, 2011 6:11 PM | Report abuse

This is so typical of the left, and not even the far left. They got trounced in this past November election and is looking for anything to discredit the movement and will of the people. They will stoop to the lowest of lows and think nothing of slurping up sludge on the bottom of the sewer.

To take focus off the horrific tragedy of some lunatic nut case assassin and put the blame on political rhetoric particularly from some one who is fighting against the ideologies of the left is low and despicable. You read the beginning of this article and you see all the assumptions made that the shooter Jared Lee Loughner even saw the maps and heard statements made or even listened to any one outside of the voices in his own head. You assume he watched the news and followed a certain sect of people. Did he and what sect was it? You assume he disagreed with Ms Giffords. Well, what side did he disagree with her from? Did he disagree because she wasn't leftest enough or rightest enough? You assume that this guy thinks and processes right from wrong? He may not even know the difference. But that's absurd; really, no more absurd then wanting to believe that political rhetoric had any direct correlation to this mad mans actions.

Posted by: hanocul6 | January 12, 2011 6:13 PM | Report abuse

savetherest


If you are doing everything I say,

Please turn your computer off, and leave it off.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 12, 2011 6:14 PM | Report abuse

RainForestRising,

At least America SANS ALL THOSE LIBERALS got through all those, as you put them, those "terrorist incidents" united. EVENTHOUGH Obama did nothing.

BRAVO YOU


.

Posted by: savetherest | January 12, 2011 6:14 PM | Report abuse

"I'll note that these guys are taking a page from the religious right's strategy of running candidates for local positions in school boards, hospital boards, etc so as to gain control and steer policy/law in the direction of their ideology."

Uhhhh Bernie...

I don't think that strategy is exclusive to the religious right.

{{{snarflegigglet}}}

Posted by: tao9 | January 12, 2011 6:14 PM | Report abuse

RainForestRising,

I turned it OFF, but I CAN STILL post.

What ELSE should I DO?

.

Posted by: savetherest | January 12, 2011 6:16 PM | Report abuse

All, Happy Hour Roundup posted:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/01/happy_hour_roundup_164.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | January 12, 2011 6:18 PM | Report abuse

It is a miracle, just like when Plumline banned(turned of) RainForestGriping, but he still keeps on posting.

Turning off and banning ,just ain't what they used to be.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 12, 2011 6:21 PM | Report abuse

savetherest


Pull the plug for the computer out of the wall, and walk down the block.

And stay away from your computer, forever.


You will get coodies.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 12, 2011 6:23 PM | Report abuse

Hi savetherest:

Coupla things.

Alot of people either skim or ignore RainForest. One of the things that he does that causes us to skip his posts is his formating.

If you get into a private war w/ Rain esp. via miming him you're merely adding to the bolloxing up of the thread.

Here's the other thing: people block Rain via TrollHunter...so all alot of folks are seeing are your minah/byrd posts hanging out there alone with zero context.

Makes ya look dopey.

Just sayin'.

Posted by: tao9 | January 12, 2011 6:24 PM | Report abuse

Tao

Way to make the political climate in this nation better !

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | January 12, 2011 6:26 PM | Report abuse

all the niceties in sargent and meyersons piece ignore one little nasty fact. the left and the media are the ones who went after sarah palin after teh shooting. an underling reporter at KGUN (notice hte letters of this tv station) blatantly said that loughner's facebook fansite had tea party and sarah palin listed. i hope she got fired. but you guys started this fight and now like mark halperin (who really showed his mettle) said conservatives ought to just let us keep slappingthem as they should just turn the other cheek. we didn't even bring a knife to this battle, you guys brought ak-47s, to quote your messiah

Posted by: harbinger317 | January 12, 2011 6:48 PM | Report abuse

Tao,

I refuse to use the Troll Blocker, and I think it is just the equvilent of babies putting their hands over their eyes, and then persuading theirselves that the other person has disappeared.

I notice that Greg was blocking STRF and all his Sybil personas, right up until the Troll Blocker tool was presented, and from then on Greg allowed STRF to deluge every thread with his psychotic rants. Casual readers and newcomers should not have to be exposed to such behavior, and no should have to download some script that merely covers their eyes, and allows them to buy into a peekaboo delusion.

The guy was banned. The Post then should enforce their ban, instead of looking completely impotent and foolish.

Posted by: Liam-still | January 12, 2011 7:02 PM | Report abuse

Excellent points my friends. Educational as always.

To my friends on the left: We need to at least be aware of the rhetoric during the Bush years. Yes, I know, WE don't think it ever reached THIS level. That, you must understand, may only be a matter of perspective.

To my friends on the right: Jared is a lefty, and Fort Hood excuses this? I realize I am oversimplifying but that isn't even an apologist position. It's just...weird. Interesting, but weird.

To everyone: To show my militant streak for a moment, I absolutely do not want ANY interference with political speech because of this. Why? Because I want the right to continue like this, hell I want them to ramp-it-up. I want every God-fearing, gun-loving, Fox news-watching REAL american to get out there with everything they've got. I want more planes crashed into federal buildings, I want more politicians shot, I want more deranged manifestos on the web! I want it all!

And when the dust settles, and we get it out of our system (maybe), we can all sit back and quitely look forward to our next bout of craziness while we fill the time in between with boring discussions about infrastructure, global economic policy, taxes, and social programs.

Teehee

Posted by: ashtar377 | January 12, 2011 8:47 PM | Report abuse

This is correct.

It's possible that with untreated schizophrenia the gunman would have lashed out violently at a different target if cues from his environment pointed him elsewhere; environmental factors are likely part of the equation.

Posted by: JPRS | January 12, 2011 9:07 PM | Report abuse

ashtar377,

"To my friends on the left: We need to at least be aware of the rhetoric during the Bush years. Yes, I know, WE don't think it ever reached THIS level. That, you must understand, may only be a matter of perspective."

A four or five-fold increase in threats to public officials in 2008-2010 suggests something more than just selective perception.

It's worth remembering too that during the wingnut jihad on judges back during the Terri Schiavo case and early 2000s, death threats against judges increased. When wingnut radio and Fox focused their attention elsewhere the death-threats went down.

Words carry weight and consequences -- especially in the case of an authority figure, public figures, and even in the case of "entertainers" like King Dittohead.

Posted by: JPRS | January 12, 2011 9:27 PM | Report abuse

By paranoid fringe do you mean birthers?

CHEERS!

Posted by: whocares666 | January 12, 2011 9:47 PM | Report abuse


Can the word "Journ-O-List" trigger violence in the unhinged? YES! Time for Ezra Klein to apologize.

Posted by: clawrence12 | January 12, 2011 11:36 PM | Report abuse

FLASHBACK 2008: Remember when spitting, rock throwing and chemical spraying were "the highest form of patriotism"?
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/09/02/rnc-protest-update-spitting-rock-throwing-poison-spraying-and-cub-scout-harassing

Obama's Leftist "progressives" spent the last decade on CNN committing acts of criminal mayhem during their kristalnaght-style, anti-Semitic gutter riots (masquerading as "peace" protests) in support of Islamo-supremacism to achieve their hate-America political agenda. http://www.zombietime.com/hall_of_shame

Yet Leftists now have the temerity to climb up on their hind legs (without a shred of evidence) and howl about (alleged) "a paranoid culture" among conservatives?

The AZ shooter was one of your own. Own him.

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | January 13, 2011 8:14 AM | Report abuse

Leftists and Democrats want us to focus on the (alleged) "right-wing extremism" rather than the Leftist shooters discipleship with Obama mentor, Bill Ayers. Maybe they should start with condemning President Obama, the Extremist-in-Chief.
http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2011/01/did-barack-obama-cause-the-shootings-yesterday-in-tucson

** Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
** Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”
** Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
** Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
** Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
** Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
** Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”
** Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”
** Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”

If Leftists really want to consider the atmosphere of violent language, they should start at the White House.

BREAKING: AZ Shooter is Leftist-terrorist Bill Ayers disciple
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=249429#ixzz1AfFPHymn

"Jared Lee Loughner, the suspected gunman in Saturday's Arizona shooting, attended a high school that is part of a network in which teachers are trained and provided resources by a liberal group founded by Weatherman terrorist Bill Ayers and funded by President Obama..."

I eagerly await the MSM’s strong denunciation of Obama’s violent rhetoric.

Own him, Leftists. He's all yours.

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | January 13, 2011 8:15 AM | Report abuse

Is anyone on the Left aware that a conservative Federal judge was murdered by this lunatic Leftist.

It is not a "paranoid culture" when Leftists are openly calling for conservatives to be assassinated.

Leftists are now openly calling for Palin's assassination.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxgJKNpjSNI&feature=player_embedded#!

Death threats: how progressive!

ABC: Death Threats Against Sarah Palin at “Unprecedented Levels”
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/blood-libel-sarah-palins-controversial-reference-riled-emotions/story?id=12601352

Can Leftists imagine Giffords effigy hung from a noose?
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/27/can-you-imagine-if-an-obama-effigy-were-hung-from-a-noose/

Own the Leftist violent rhetoric and vitriol.

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | January 13, 2011 8:20 AM | Report abuse

The shooter was schooled at a neo-Weatherman indoctrination camp.

The gunman attended a high school that is part of a network in which teachers are trained and provided resources by a Leftist group founded by Weatherman terrorist Bill Ayers and funded by President Obama.

The group, Small Schools Workshop, has been led by a former top communist activist who is an associate of Ayers.

Obama provided the group with funds in the 1990s when he worked at an education reform group alongside Ayers.

Read more: Bill Ayers' communist provided Arizona shooter's curriculum
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=249429#ixzz1AlWX33Gl

He's all yours, Leftists. Own him.

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | January 13, 2011 8:25 AM | Report abuse

Cute. When your first attempt to castigate the right fell flat, you find yourself a shrink to spin a cloak of technobabble.

Shouldn't you be cringing in your storm cellar until Americans spontaneously give up their guns? Coward.

Posted by: pcannady | January 13, 2011 10:17 AM | Report abuse

What's the saying about putting a frog in hot water versus bringing it to a slow boil? Average Germans didn't buy into paranoid and incindiary propoganda which led to the deaths of millions over night. We now have high profile political wanna-be leaders using phrases like 'blood libel', 'don't retreat... reload', 'they have us in their crosshairs', etc. Paranoid supposition coupled with an incessant bombardment of language and graphics that evoke imagery of using violence against ones political opposition is a dangerous game. The fact that Palin invokes the phrase 'manufacturing a blood libel [against her]' and is consulting security shows that she too believes that words can incite violence. She merely asks that others be held to a higher standard than she cares to hold herself to.

Posted by: pgs70 | January 13, 2011 10:27 AM | Report abuse

As Dr. Marvin Swartz told me yesterday, the key operative insight is that culture can play a role in shaping the delusions of the mentally "ill" -- so it's entirely appropriate to ask whether our political culture can do the same.

Those same delusions are fashioned for the mentally well. Your premise is too narrow.

Harold A. Maio
khmaio@earthlink.net

Posted by: khmaio | January 13, 2011 10:38 AM | Report abuse

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