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Posted at 8:28 AM ET, 02/19/2011

Birtherism: Worst. Trap. Ever.

By Adam Serwer

For the past couple of weeks, I've been writing about Republican politicians' birther problem.

Whether or not the issue is one of mere symbolic belief or genuine agreement among large segments of the Republican base, GOP leaders feel obligated to mollify those among their base who believe the outlandish conspiracy theory that president wasn't born in the United States or that he's secretly a Muslim. But now former President George W. Bush adviser Karl Rove has come up with a new conspiracy theory that is less dumb than the original one, but not by much. According to Rove, the White House wants Republicans to continue raising doubts about Obama's citizenship in order to make the GOP look kooky:

"We need the leaders of our party to say, 'Look, stop falling into the trap of the White House and focus on the real issues,'" he said. Spending time and energy on -- and getting media attention for -- comments about where the president was born is a distraction that discredits the lawmakers and candidates making the remarks, he said.

Rove said he thinks that the Obama administration relishes the continued existence of the birther movement because it distracts from how the president is handling policy issues. "Look, these guys may be lousy at governing ... but they're damn good at politics," he said. "It fits into the White House theme line."

The problem, of course, is that at least one recent poll showed that a majority of Republicans have doubts about the president's citizenship, which explains the rise of "post-birtherism." Republican leaders don't want to anger a large section of their base by flatly calling this stuff what it is, which is nuts. So the new approach is to joke about it or to carefully avoid denouncing the idea completely.

The White House didn't force GOP Presidential hopeful Tim Pawlenty to make a birther joke at CPAC. It's also worth noting that three Republican congressional leaders recently gave the same exact answer to questions about the President's faith and citizenship:

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on Meet The Press last August: "The president says he's a Christian. I take him at his word. I don't think that's in dispute."

House Speaker John Boehner on Meet the Press last Sunday: "[I]t's not my job to tell the American people what to think. Our job in Washington is to listen to the American people. Having said that, the state of Hawaii has said that he was born there. That's good enough for me. The president says he's a Christian. I accept him at his word."

Tea Party Caucus Chair Michele Bachmann told Good Morning America, "We should take the president at his word" that he was born in the U.S.

It's a very scripted answer, one obviously designed to dodge the question by leaving open the possibility that the president might simply be lying. It prevents the speaker from sounding paranoid about the president's background without suggesting that there's something weird about thinking otherwise.

The idea that the issue is a "trap" is belied by the ease with which Republican leaders could shut the entire matter down.  All they have to do is say it's silly. Yesterday, Arizona Republican Congressman Jeff Flake showed how easy this is by simply telling CNN, "Barack Obama is a citizen of the country. We ought to get off this kick."

If birtherism is a "trap," it's the worst trap ever.

By Adam Serwer  | February 19, 2011; 8:28 AM ET
Categories:  Miscellaneous  
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Comments

This should get up the hit count.

Posted by: caothien9 | February 19, 2011 8:42 AM | Report abuse

Who cares if he's a Christian?

Given the prevalence of apocalyptic Protestant sects in American Christianity, frankly the idea of a Christian in reach of nuclear weapons makes me a little nervous.

Posted by: caothien9 | February 19, 2011 8:51 AM | Report abuse

So true, Cao. Birther day ahead.

On another matter, you seemed to want to minimize the Wisconsin story the other night when you said Texas is more important with its poor education rankings, teen pregnancies, etc. I think it's a big story that there's this cocerted attack being launched in states like Wisconsin that have traditionally been solid on education and other quality of life issues.

Texas is Texas. But is there an attempt underway to narrow the state achievement gap downward?

Posted by: AllButCertain | February 19, 2011 8:56 AM | Report abuse

Concerted. Yikes.

Posted by: AllButCertain | February 19, 2011 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Just wait till nitwit JakeD shows up with his canned birther junk. You can actually hear the loss of high frequencies from playing the record so many times.

@ABC: no it's not that I consider Texas more important, it's more that Wisconsin is another insignificatnt skirmish in a war already lost. I said pretty much what I would say here in my response to tao at the end of the previous thread.

Posted by: caothien9 | February 19, 2011 9:12 AM | Report abuse

ABC, there's a piece in The Nation you might be interested in. It covers a lot of ground re public vs. private unions, campaign finance rules, where the public unions failed, and where progressives failed. It's a pretty interesting read that is non-hyperbolic, yeah.

""There is a strong correlation, moreover, between red states, right-to-work laws, an overall worse quality of life for the average worker or poor person, and a more hostile climate for progressives, from environmentalists to civil rights activists. The average worker in a right-to-work state earns $5,333 less than his or her counterpart in a pro-worker state. Twenty-one percent more people lack health insurance. Late last year, immigration advocates anticipated Arizona-like measures in twenty-two states, eleven of which are controlled by Republicans. Of those, seven are right-to-work states. Not surprisingly, three that are not—Ohio, Pennsylvania and Indiana—are where the attack on government workers’ unions is the strongest.""

http://www.thenation.com/article/158640/labors-last-stand

Posted by: lmsinca | February 19, 2011 9:20 AM | Report abuse

Yes Bernie, what is going on in the Arab world is unprecedented, that is why I have been gabbing about it non stop. It ain't over and things won't be like they were.

Meanwhile, I love hot food, I'd better, married to an Indo. When she came to the country she found a bottle of Pace (hot, not medium) in the fridge, she poured half of it into a bowl and ate it with a spoon remarking she was surprised we have pretty good soup in America.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12505344

No, I am not going to be on topic, not this one and I never have, it is just too stupid. I can only laugh at Rove's pain, watching the control of his precious messaging machine slip away, into the abyss, Republicans, ignorant and proud of it.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 9:23 AM | Report abuse

@shrink:

A gallon bottle of sambal oelek every four months in the USA.

Posted by: caothien9 | February 19, 2011 9:26 AM | Report abuse

That soup story re your wife, shrink, is laugh out loud funny! Thanks for that.

Posted by: pragmaticagain | February 19, 2011 9:28 AM | Report abuse

"We don't fear death any more, let the army come and kill us to show the world what kind of savages they are," one woman, a Shia teacher Umm Mohammed, told the Reuters news agency."

Well it all started with pretty Iranian, Neda, when the whole world watched her die like a dog in the street.

Again the structure of royal rule entrained in the Sunni Shite perma-conflict, the nature of the Army, the oil, our Iran War Armada, Bahrain is nothing like Egypt, except that it is an Arab dictatorship.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 9:33 AM | Report abuse

lmsinca, thanks for the link. I'll read that article. It's the sort of thing I've been thinking about. I always believed the big story in 2010 was the stealthy way the Republicans made their successful attack on governorships and state legislatures. Now the scope of their plan begins to appear.

@cao-- I'd read that post. I hope we don't all have to become so cynical, though I'm curious how your attempt to find utopia will fare. It's a very American quest, you know.

Posted by: AllButCertain | February 19, 2011 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Karl Rove, the architect of the worst 2-term presidency in our history, is getting paid by Fox News to tell us that the Obama Administration is "lousy at governing". Alice get me out of this wonderland.

Posted by: dhenken1 | February 19, 2011 9:38 AM | Report abuse

C & P
We know a rotund woman from Bali who makes all kinds of sambal in her home. I grow the peppers, scotch bonnets for heat and serranos for flavor, mostly. I let the serranos get scarlet and sweet, they end up with more of a 'bouquet' a complexity, than when picked green (as do most things when eaten unripe), the way the Mexicans eat them, perhaps like a bigger version of the Thai pepper, sorry for that ro sentence.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 9:43 AM | Report abuse

Sorry Adam but I don't think birtherism is particularly distinguished as a trap of GOP nuttiness. I think it's just one spoke of the wheel. Whether it's the racist junk or the looking out for the wealthy or the science denial or the general repellent outlook of the typical member of the GOP base, I think the Republicans have painted themselves into a corner.

If they follow Rove and repudiate the real dingbats, the dingbats will thrash and make trouble and once they're hoarse from chanting "PAY-Lin" they just may schism away.

And if they continue to please the dingbats then they have zero chance of appealing to anyone else.

Yeah, midterm shellacking. Let's see how long those coattails are after two years of posturing and preening and doing harm.

Posted by: caothien9 | February 19, 2011 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Wonder who will be left to support the GOP by the time 2012 rolls around:

It's not just the Archdiocese that opposes Walker's anti-labor efforts. Bishop Linda Lee of the Wisconsin Conference of the United Methodist Church and Rabbi Jonathan Biatch have both used faith-based rationales in urging Walker to reverse course , while the Washington-based advocacy group Catholics United issued a statement yesterday urging Wisconsin Republicans to "suspend (their) attacks on public workers."

What's more, Faith in Public Life hosted a press conference yesterday with Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish clergy from Illinois and Wisconsin, stressing the faith community's "commitment to workers' rights as a moral issue, offered their support to protecting Wisconsin public employees' collective bargaining rights, and extended invitations of sanctuary and hospitality to lawmakers."

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2011_02/028083.php

Posted by: pragmaticagain | February 19, 2011 9:46 AM | Report abuse

@ABC: I make NO claims of living in utopia. I live in an extremely poor country where people smoke cigarettes, litter, talk too loud and too fast, and drive like suicidal maniacs.

It is however a relaxed way of life, the food is terrific, and the cost of living almost ridiculously low. I go for a periodontal cleaning tomorrow, quality as high as the USA, and it will cost me $5. And that isn't a copay. A really excellent restaurant meal is under $3, often under $2, and total monthly expenses with a servant, broadband, and a lot of eating out come to around $500.

And there are no guns.

Posted by: caothien9 | February 19, 2011 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Rove's program is simple - he projects himself onto his opponents. Since he's an evil person, its very ugly.

Posted by: jryan758 | February 19, 2011 9:54 AM | Report abuse

As dhenken1 said, it's deeply funny to see the leader of the Mayberry Machiavellis passing judgement on anyone else's prowess at governing.

Posted by: JennOfArk | February 19, 2011 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Karl Rove does not really believe this is a White House trap, he knows that in order to refocus the simple minds clinging to the birther theory one must employ some other conspiracy. He is just distributing new mental snuggies to faithful.

Posted by: veritasinmedium | February 19, 2011 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Re poor education results...

First, I'm a tad angry this morning so forgive any sharp edges. Or savor them if you are of that bent.

First, the consistent refrain of "our education system is failing". What needs to be understood off the top is that this refrain is a constant in the history of America. There's a reason for that - it is an activity of process which is always available for reassessment because of changes of all sorts in society and because it isn't like making a widget. If you want the historical goods on this, order Hofstadter's Anti-Intellectualism in American Life and read the chapter "Education".

And the education endeavor ain't easy. Just sit down and try to figure out what curriculum you'd like to see in order to produce that desired grade 12 graduate creature popping out the end of it all, then bring your notion up within a group of five people and watch the disagreements arise. And if you settle on something, then try to reverse engineer back to first grade or earlier to make it achievable. Then try to ascertain what sort of teacher can help get you to all these way-points enroute, what funding is required, etc.

Aside from all that, what is really going on in education discourse in the US now (other than the dilemmas noted above) is that about two decades ago, private enterprise set to the project of trying to harvest the vast amounts of dollars moving into and through the educational institutions. A new potential business for them, if they could get their greedy goddamned hands on it. Rather obviously, they had to create the circumstances for take-over (full or partial) and the first step here was a concerted PR campaign to forward the meme that educational institutions were failing. We, private enterprise, can do better with education in the same manner that we can do better at everything because we are magical and god approves of capitalism.

All of this is facilitated if the means that educational institutions hold to do their job is reduced through declining funding. Failure is, from the viewpoint of those who wished to take over that function, incentivized. Very importantly, there's a two-fer here. This project also has the advantage of defunding and disempowering teachers' unions and decreasing the size/role of government thus diminishing opposition to right wing dynamics and increasing the chances of electoral gains (a la Rove's comment the other night on how diminished unions increase republican electoral chances).

So that's the game being played. And regardless of the propaganda coming out of private enterprise, they are NOT doing this job better nor more efficiently.

Posted by: bernielatham | February 19, 2011 10:01 AM | Report abuse

This will be very interesting to watch...extraordinary, all those public employee union health workers will be working for GPs if this plan goes through. Selling off what little state owned forest England has is equally astonishing.

"Labour leader Ed Miliband has attacked government plans to give more power to family doctors in England. Speaking at the Welsh Labour conference in Llandudno, Mr Miliband accused ministers of planning to "rip up the NHS" and of being out of touch.

He predicted the plans to hand almost 80% of the English health budget to GPs would provoke a backlash to dwarf that seen over forests [read down]. Health Secretary Andrew Lansley said Labour had no NHS vision of their own.

Previously, Prime Minister David Cameron has said the government was "reforming the NHS so that we have got the best in Europe". The Health and Social Care Bill, published last month, will allow GPs to get control of most of the NHS budget from 2013 - working in consortiums and taking on responsibility for "buying in" the bulk of hospital and community services for their patients.

In the process, **all 151 primary care trusts and strategic health authorities will be disbanded** [emphasis mine]. Mr Miliband told delegates that ministers knew "the price of everything and the value of nothing." He argued the government's U-turn over the sale of publicly-owned forests in England was indicative of a broader trend.

"Ideas developed without consultation, ideas that nobody wants, that nobody voted for and that put ideology before the institutions people care about. "I warn David Cameron and the government: the ill-feeling he created over the forests will be as nothing compared to the real anger that will build about his dangerous plans for the NHS."

The plans have already been denounced by health unions, with critics questioning the timing and whether GPs will have the skills to handle such huge budgets." BBC

This makes the events in WI look parochial if not quaint. This is massive, in reality it represents the end of 'socialized medicine' in England, though not single payer, the government still buys all health care, but it is letting the doctors decide what to spend it on. Yikes! What a concept. I think I know what side I'd be on.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 10:02 AM | Report abuse

You know, I keep hearing criticisms of birthers, but no one has produced the one item that would shut us up once and for all-a long form birth certificate. Millions have been spent on NOT producing this document, even after McCain had to prove his eligibility. If the administration is so concerned, why don't they shut us up with a single sheet of paper? Why the huge effort to conceal this one page proof sheet? Sound odd to me.

Posted by: Fkuchnsky | February 19, 2011 10:03 AM | Report abuse

I think Karl Rove should have to prove he's a human. Let's see some DNA. We know Cheney is a human-shark hybrid, and I think Rove was born off-world, or in Texas. Same thing.

Posted by: kcbrady | February 19, 2011 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Funny how they all demand this "long form" thing.

Kinda like they're so careful to note their gripe is with "illegal" aliens.

Posted by: caothien9 | February 19, 2011 10:15 AM | Report abuse

When someone is as demonstrably anti-American as Barack Hussain Soetoro Obama is, it is easy to believe they are a foreign national.

But I believe he was born in Hawaii. The problem with his Long Form Birth Certificate is that it shows his father's race as White or Caucasian, not Black or Negro.

Posted by: liberty_rocks | February 19, 2011 10:20 AM | Report abuse

You know, I keep hearing criticisms of birthers, but no one has produced the one item that would shut us up once and for all-a long form birth certificate. Millions have been spent on NOT producing this document, even after McCain had to prove his eligibility. If the administration is so concerned, why don't they shut us up with a single sheet of paper? Why the huge effort to conceal this one page proof sheet? Sound odd to me.

Posted by: Fkuchnsky | February 19, 2011 10:03 AM

.............................

Karl Rove said that you are falling into the White House Trap. Looks like you like getting snared. Did you go on that visit to the lesbian bondage club, paid for by the RNC?

Posted by: Liam-still | February 19, 2011 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Well now there is a shocker...

"The U.S. government has overlooked recent complaints about human-rights abuses in Bahrain."

Duh, news flash: we don't like the Shia. Meanwhile, Tunisia's ex-brutal dictator fled (with all the, can I call it looted?, money) to Saudi and we are just fine with that.

"The drive to cut off Shiite Web sites attests to King Hamad’s fear that outside forces, like Iran or the militant group Hezbollah, would ally with Shiites inside the kingdom to destabilize it.

In a 2008 cable that gives a glimpse of Bahrain’s sensitivities, the embassy reported that despite the government’s “periodic claims that there are Hezbollah- or Iranian-connected sleeper cells with Bahrain, they have never offered hard evidence of such a presence, and our reporting has been unable to substantiate it.” NYT

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 10:21 AM | Report abuse

When someone is as demonstrably anti-American as Barack Hussain Soetoro Obama is, it is easy to believe they are a foreign national.

==

"they are a"

Little sketchy on the whole singular / plural thing, I see

Posted by: caothien9 | February 19, 2011 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Adam -
Make it easy - just produce a document proving us wrong!!
Quit embarrassing yoursaelf with thses pathetic attempts to say it isn't necessary.
It is necessary - as you will see in the 2012 elections.
I can see it now - the dems will be saying the SCOTUS threw the election to the Republicans by enforcing the Constitution :-)

Posted by: thornegp2626 | February 19, 2011 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Payday gone bad...

"Eighteen people have been killed and more than 70 wounded in an attack on a bank in the Afghan city of Jalalabad, according to the provincial governor. Gul Agha Shirzay said suicide attackers armed with guns and grenades carried out the attack.

The Taliban say they carried out the assault on the Kabul Bank, targeting police and intelligence officers who had gone to collect their salaries. FAP

This thing can't end fast enough. If the goal is to defeat the Taliban, it is just a lost cause. If the goal is to defeat al-Q, they are not there so we won. Now let's declare Victory! and leave.
Besides, we can just drone them to powder from the safety of our war rooms if al-Q reappears. It'll never be over.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 10:42 AM | Report abuse

So all you clowns that throw the "Birther " name around, I would suppose the Federal and State governments are the biggest birthers of all. Short form birth certificate doesn't cut it with them. Really what I would like to see and you Lib's should to is his college transcripts. My if he is so brilliant you could post his grades with each of your comments just to back up his brilliance! Instead you just blindly follow along. What a maroon.

Posted by: Cav16 | February 19, 2011 10:48 AM | Report abuse

LA Times:

"Sarah Palin hints at 2012 presidential run, but says she's undecided"

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-palin-event-20110218,0,3498808.story

"Reporting from Woodbury, N.Y. —
Escalating speculation about a possible presidential run, Sarah Palin offered a teasing hint Thursday of the type of candidate she would like to see in 2012: a multi-tasking mother with experience at the state and local level who has already been a vice presidential nominee."

"In a rare public speaking engagement before a business group in suburban New York, the former Alaska governor and 2008 GOP vice presidential nominee took swipes at President Obama and members of both parties in Washington. She predicted that voters would be hungry for a nomination campaign that is "a little bit rogue" — a play on the title of her campaign memoir — and shakes up the political establishment."

"No wonder Michelle Obama is telling everybody, 'Yeah, you better breast-feed your babies,' " Palin said. "I'm going, 'Yeah, you better. Because the price of milk is so high right now. Regardless of the political, do it for economic reasons.' "

"Seated in an armchair on a small stage, Palin was interviewed by the head of the Long Island Assn. at the group's annual luncheon. Kevin S. Law, a former utility company executive, said beforehand that he had no interest in posing "gotcha-style" questions. But he did ask Palin about recent national opinion surveys showing that most voters viewed her unfavorably.

"In a lot of those polls, yeah, I get my butt kicked," she said.

Palin was accompanied by her daughter, Bristol, whom she described as her "entourage." She said she had asked Bristol, in their hotel room Wednesday night, to Google information about the economy in preparation for the appearance in a country club ballroom."

Posted by: Liam-still | February 19, 2011 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Bernie, hope your mood improves. Two quick, sincere questions. First, was there a time in this country when education, public education,'was better? Second, is there a country whose education structure you'd prefer? And as an add-on, if your mood improves, what makes that country's system better?

Yesterday you mentioned women entering the workforce as one reason public education requirements has changed, and I agree with that. It, in my opinion, has increased public schools role in, for lack of a better way to phrase it, teaching socialization skills. Do you think that public schools have responded to that task?

Ok, that's like 5 questions. Have an expresso. Or two. And no rush if you care to respond, I'm in and out all day. Hope it gets better for ya!

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | February 19, 2011 10:53 AM | Report abuse

The Guide is in trouble...this is desperation...

"The pro-government Al-Zahf Al-Akhdar newspaper threatened that the authorities would "violently and thunderously respond" to the protests.

The people's power, the Jamahiriya [system of rule], the revolution, and Colonel Gaddafi are all red lines and those who try to cross or come near these lines are suicidal and playing with fire," it said."

They are probably just joshing. Nothing like a little humor to defuse anxiety at a time like this.

But seriously, I hope none of the BP installations are at risk. To get back into Libya, they had to free the Lockerbie bomber (who wasn't really near death after all, Inshallah) and their stock price still hasn't recovered completely from their "spill". Those poor guys just can't catch a break.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 10:56 AM | Report abuse

We will learn the truth about about Obama, but only 5-10 years after he is out of the Presidency and both sides are not so invested in it. The truth is probably much more prosaic than many of the conspiracy theories, but will match what we already know about Obama's character.

Posted by: pgr88 | February 19, 2011 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Cav16 = Rove's bad dream

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Funny how they all demand this "long form" thing.

Kinda like they're so careful to note their gripe is with "illegal" aliens.

Posted by: caothien9 | February 19, 2011 10:15 AM | Report abuse
- - - - - - - - - - - -
A little sketchy on the "legal" thing I see :-)

Posted by: thornegp2626 | February 19, 2011 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Hey, the "birthers" are people too. There's a lot of them out there, maybe tens of millions and they are voting, legal, American citizens! The Republicans would be stupid to NOT take them into account.

That's what the Obama, media bobbleheads really want. They want Republicans to alienate a significant part of their voters in a desperate attempt to help their "dear leader" secure another term.

Besides, the Obamacrats pander to kooky parts of their electorate like homosexuals, outlaw "immigrants", and all of the other liberal, fringe groups that hate Republicans.

Compared to most of the Obamacrat fringers, the birthers are very mainstream, indeed.

Posted by: battleground51 | February 19, 2011 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Cav, I got my passport recently. I used what VT issues and it is exactly like Hawaii's cert. Last I checked passports are the domain of the state department, a fed entity.

"Long form" is something not used in more populated states anymore.

I was born in 64.

Personally I think the whole brother kick is a not so subtle attempt at racism. But that's just my opinion. Not fact. I know the difference. Unlike...

Posted by: Alex3 | February 19, 2011 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Cav, I got my passport recently. I used what VT issues and it is exactly like Hawaii's cert. Last I checked passports are the domain of the state department, a fed entity.

"Long form" is something not used in more populated states anymore.

I was born in 64.

Personally I think the whole birther kick is a not so subtle attempt at racism. But that's just my opinion. Not fact. I know the difference. Unlike...

Posted by: Alex3 | February 19, 2011 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Karl Rove, Sarah Palin, and Bill Kristol have all recently attacked The Birthers.

Poor Birthers, where will they go, now that Faux News has turned on them?

Posted by: Liam-still | February 19, 2011 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Apologies for the double post.

Posted by: Alex3 | February 19, 2011 11:08 AM | Report abuse

The Washington Times: Jan 25 2011

A. right wing publication.

"U.S. education still found lax in science, math
Grade schools not measuring up globally in testing of knowledge"

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jan/25/us-students-still-lag-science-math/

"n a report titled “Rising Above the Gathering Storm, Revisited: Rapidly Approaching Category 5,” the National Academies pointed out that American students still rank only in the middle of the pack when compared with their peers abroad and do poorly in applying science and math concepts."

Posted by: Liam-still | February 19, 2011 11:11 AM | Report abuse

The afterbirthers need to stop hyperventalating about Obama's constitutional qualification problem and just tell him to provide a certified copy of his long form birth certificate.

We were hoping Albercombie would clear it up but apparently he was unable to find Obama's birth certificate in Hawaii, too.

Although this survey only queried Repubicans on their opinion of Obama's qualification problem, the truth is that plenty of Independents and Democrats want the problem handled as well.

Most people are wondering why the guy has spent two years in court after court fighting the request that he do what every other American citizen must do simply to secure a passport. Obama is not above the rule of law and neither are the politicians (Democrats and Repubicans) who have been abetting in his cover-up.

Posted by: sj121387 | February 19, 2011 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Yes, if by "mainstream" you mean "stupid enough to believe that an 18-year-old white college girl in 1961 decided that it would be a good idea to spend the equivalent of a student's annual income on a plane ticket to a less-developed country in order to give birth, when she could have just stayed home and accomplished the same in a more modern facility, and who also had the foresight to plant birth announcements in the local papers to cover up her trip halfway around the world to give birth, and to believe it in spite of the fact that there is not one whit of evidence to support it."

If that's what you mean by "mainstream," then yeah, the birthers are "mainstream."

I mean, who would be so blind as to not see this scenario as the most plausible?

Posted by: JennOfArk | February 19, 2011 11:15 AM | Report abuse

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12515121

I wonder if the folks at NonLethal Technologies are enjoying the free publicity today?

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 11:15 AM | Report abuse

sj121 - Obama hasn't been fighting the birthers in court. The birthers have been laughed out of court by a whole succession of judges. Obama doesn't have a private attorney showing up at these ridiculous hearings. The birthers are managing to lose to themselves in court.

Posted by: JennOfArk | February 19, 2011 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Wont The Birthers feel chagrined when President Obama, at the end of his second term, reveals that he is the returned Jesus, and then walks across the waters of the Potomac?

They also haven't found his long form birth certificate from when he was born the first time, a couple of thousand years ago.

For all we know, his mother may have lied about having given birth in Bethlehem back then.

Posted by: Liam-still | February 19, 2011 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Was Obama also responsible for Bush's Willie Horton ad, James' White Hands ad and Vitter's illegal immigration ad? Or Chip Saltzman's "Barack The Magic Negro" song or Beck going on TV and saying Obama hates white people or Limbaugh saying that the PPACA is all about reparations or Megyn Kelly doing a three hour special on the 6 member New Black Panthers or all the racist Tea Party signs?

Who knew? Thanks, Karl. I guess the GOP is absolved of all its past and future racist acts since we now know that "Barry" (it's Obama's fault that I just called him that) is making the GOP be racist.

Posted by: DDAWD | February 19, 2011 11:41 AM | Report abuse

um, I mean Helms' White Hands ad.

Posted by: DDAWD | February 19, 2011 11:42 AM | Report abuse

rove would be in federal prison if shrub hadn't bailed him out, and we are supposed to listen to anything he say's?

Posted by: calif-joe | February 19, 2011 11:42 AM | Report abuse

The bone that sticks in the craw of the Obama, media bobblehead IS the fact that there are so danged many of them so-called "birthers" and the Birthers ARE legal, VOTING citizens. This fact must be driving the Obamacrats crazy.

Poor, Obama bobbleheads. They just go bob-bob-bobbling along.

Sewer and Sarg must have pains in their necks, by now.

Posted by: battleground51 | February 19, 2011 11:45 AM | Report abuse

"She said she had asked Bristol, in their hotel room Wednesday night, to Google information about the economy in preparation for the appearance in a country club ballroom."

Exhibit #1 of eleventy billion reasons why the GOP doesn't need any help looking "kooky".

Posted by: schrodingerscat | February 19, 2011 11:46 AM | Report abuse

sj121 - Obama hasn't been fighting the birthers in court. The birthers have been laughed out of court by a whole succession of judges. Obama doesn't have a private attorney showing up at these ridiculous hearings. The birthers are managing to lose to themselves in court.

Posted by: JennOfArk
------------------------------------------
Jenn...Are you saying that Obama hasn't sent ANY lawyers to the court hearings and has been relying on the birthers being laughed out of court by the judges?

Posted by: mafox1 | February 19, 2011 11:46 AM | Report abuse

The GOP's problem isn't the rumors about the birth certificate. It's that after years of systematically soliciting the loyalty of morons, they got what they wanted: a vast base of stupid, truculent, manipulable idiots who can be herded like cattle and stampeded by the likes of Palin and Paul over the GOP leadership, including Rove.

They've lost control of the animals.

Posted by: Bridge3263 | February 19, 2011 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Hard times for a good man...

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2011/02/rep_david_wus_staff_confronted.html

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 11:52 AM | Report abuse

People interested in this thread's topic might find this Palin kiss and tell story amusing...

http://www.adn.com/2011/02/18/1711185/ex-aide-rips-palin-in-leaked-manuscript.html

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 11:54 AM | Report abuse

mafox - link us to anything referencing a private Obama attorney fighting birther lawsuits.

Posted by: JennOfArk | February 19, 2011 11:55 AM | Report abuse

The one thing that makes me wonder about the whole "birther" thing is this:

The Obama bobbleheads claim the whole thing is a ridiculous fantasy and the birthers are idiots and crackpots who should be totally ignored.

OK, so why do the Obamacrats keep spouting off about the "birthers" and seem to be in such desperate denial about the whole thing.

They are protesting too much but are they protesting over nothing?? Why would they??

Food for thought!

Posted by: battleground51 | February 19, 2011 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Obama has been caught in lie after significant lie. Researchers have reported that Hawaii has indirectly confirmed that the Certification of Live Birth (COLB) posted online by Obama is a forgery. Hawaii has confirmed at various times that Obama's birth record has been amended and that COLBs indicate amendments, something Obama's online COLB does not.

Let's see the paperwork.

Posted by: carol24 | February 19, 2011 11:57 AM | Report abuse

And yet another preventable disaster, the end of Harry and David is near, 1000 jobs may go poof: thanks management.

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2011/02/medfords_harry_david_headed_cl.html

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 11:59 AM | Report abuse

carol - I'm sorry you're insane.

It it painful?

Posted by: JennOfArk | February 19, 2011 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Also, IS it painful?

Posted by: JennOfArk | February 19, 2011 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Shrink, what's up with that dude? Saw the article (the comments were better. (furry... Snicker)) and found it rather, er, unrebutted. The picture's classic though.

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | February 19, 2011 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Go Birthers Go. Keep Up The Good Work.

President Obama knows that all he has to do is prove to you that he was born in Hawaii, and then you will all vote for to reelect him, right?. Of course once he has proven that to your satisfaction, you will also stop noticing that he has a dark complexion, right?

Go Birthers Go. Keep on scaring the hell out of Rove, and more importantly the Anonomous Oligarchs, who are worried that their huge funding of Rove, might all be wasted, once moderate Americans notice how many of you Birthers are backing their hand picked Republican nominee.

Go Birthers Go. Never Stop demanding proof.

Posted by: Liam-still | February 19, 2011 12:05 PM | Report abuse

2nd day of violence as Bedoun protest against Kuwait denying them citizenship; now practically every Arab country is busy suppressing internal dissent. Hmmm, I wonder what that means? Coincidence? I think not.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Birtherism: Most.Boring.Thread.Ever.No.One.Cares.Adam.

There's sorta more goin' on out there.

Posted by: tao9 | February 19, 2011 12:06 PM | Report abuse

""You know, I keep hearing criticisms of birthers, but no one has produced the one item that would shut us up once and for all-a long form birth certificate. Millions have been spent on NOT producing this document, even after McCain had to prove his eligibility. If the administration is so concerned, why don't they shut us up with a single sheet of paper? Why the huge effort to conceal this one page proof sheet? Sound odd to me.""

What sounds odd to me is that anyone would expect a 48-year old man whose parents divorced decades ago to know where that document is, or what became of it. I'm 47, and of similar circumstances, and neither side of the family seems to know what became of mine. However, the state in which I was born was able to furnish me with the proof I needed to prove my citizenship.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 12:07 PM | Report abuse

I agree that with even talking about it Republicans will walk into a trap. Maybe Rep. Flake is right, it's not that Birthers are going to vote for Democrats.

But I also think that there's a pitfall for Obama as well. There are significant percentages of others (like Independents) who doubt he's a Christian. Bottom line is Birtherism is a symptom of a belief that Obama does not have America's best interests at heart.

Posted by: bbface21 | February 19, 2011 12:07 PM | Report abuse

""I would suppose the Federal and State governments are the biggest birthers of all. Short form birth certificate doesn't cut it with them.""

You're wrong. It'll get you a driver's license/state ID in all 50 states, and a U.S. Passport.

I know. I had to order one for these purposes (although admittedly I did not try to get a driver's license in all 50 states).
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Barack Obama certainly doesn't need to engage in any conspiracy to make Republicans "look kooky." On matters that extend far beyond the range of mere birther "issues," Republicans ARE kooky and only have themselves to blame for the fact that they look kooky to others.

Posted by: FergusonFoont | February 19, 2011 12:14 PM | Report abuse

tao, agree, I am holding up my end of trying to bring up something, anything else...

Troll, you mean Wu? If I had to guess, I'd say pills, either psych Rx mix and match or pain pills or both.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 12:14 PM | Report abuse

I love Birthers.

Keep making your voices be heard, and be sure to raise them loud and clear, about President Obama's birth certificate, at your 2012 Presidential nomination convention.

Do not let Karl Rove silence you.

Go Birthers Go.

Posted by: Liam-still | February 19, 2011 12:15 PM | Report abuse

TO......CAO

Hi,
What country?
There how long?
How did you wind up there?

Regards,

smd

'''''''''''''''''''''
@ABC: I make NO claims of living in utopia. I live in an extremely poor country where people smoke cigarettes, litter, talk too loud and too fast, and drive like suicidal maniacs.

It is however a relaxed way of life, the food is terrific, and the cost of living almost ridiculously low. I go for a periodontal cleaning tomorrow, quality as high as the USA, and it will cost me $5. And that isn't a copay. A really excellent restaurant meal is under $3, often under $2, and total monthly expenses with a servant, broadband, and a lot of eating out come to around $500.

And there are no guns.

Posted by: caothien9 | February 19, 2011

Posted by: smd1234 | February 19, 2011 12:17 PM | Report abuse

This is important...

"For the first time since 2007, Syrians can directly log onto Facebook and YouTube without going through proxy servers abroad.The authorities issued no statements regarding the change, but local media began reporting on Tuesday that local internet providers had been told to lift the firewall in response to demands from Syrian youth."

In Jordan...

"The BBC's Dale Gavlak in Amman says it is the seventh Friday in a row that crowds have gathered after Friday prayers to urge economic and political reforms. The demonstrators comprised mostly young people who were joined by **trade unionists** and others demanding to be able to elect their prime minister and cabinet officials, and urging economic reforms to help the poor."

Young people and Unions, always causing trouble for the ruling class...

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 12:22 PM | Report abuse

"Bottom line is Birtherism is a symptom of a belief that Obama does not have America's best interests at heart."

Uh, almost. It's more that Birtherism is a convenient excuse to believe that Obama doesn't have America's best interests at heart, when of course how could he, just look at him, and what kind of a name is "Obama" anyway? Sounds furrin' and suspicious.

The lengths of illogic these folks are willing to accept in order to truly believe that their problem with Obama is that he was born somewhere else instead is breathtaking. I suppose for some it's preferable to just admitting - even to themselves - that they don't trust brown people. Because really, you've got to believe some full-on crazy and illogical s**t to really believe in the Birther nonsense, and you've got to have an affinity for the idea that the Manchurian Candidate could really be a true story.

Posted by: JennOfArk | February 19, 2011 12:26 PM | Report abuse

smd1234, he is asleep now...

Vietnam, gone about a year, but he's been planning on it for years.
Don't know how he got the idea for that country in particular, but oftentimes an SO is involved in a decision like that, who does happen to be Vietnamese. He'll send you a facebook link if you like, but I shouldn't w/o permission.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 12:27 PM | Report abuse

"They are protesting too much but are they protesting over nothing?? Why would they??"

Cuz it's the topic of the thread, cuz.

Posted by: DDAWD | February 19, 2011 12:33 PM | Report abuse

@Troll-

I can tell you, and I'm sure you can understand, that having larger classes because of layoffs probably will not *raise* the quality of that education, right?

It is fiscal malpractice on the part of the GOP-led Texas Lege that they are hell-bent on lowering taxes and 100K in layoffs in the face of an educational crisis.

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | February 19, 2011 12:33 PM | Report abuse

We are against the Settlements, they are illegal; under international law, but we veto any attempts to condemn Israel for engaging in incremental ethnic cleansing and annexing of land in the occupied West Bank

"UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - The United States on Friday vetoed a draft U.N. Security Council resolution condemning Israeli settlements on Palestinian territory after the Palestinians refused to withdraw the Arab-drafted text.

The other 14 council members voted in favor of the draft resolution. But the United States, as one of the five permanent council members with the power to block any action by the Security Council, voted against it and struck it down.

U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice told council members that the veto "should not be misunderstood to mean we support settlement activity." She added that the U.S. view is that Israeli settlements lack legitimacy."

That is really going to endear us to all those young Arab protesters who may well become the future leaders across the middle east.

Posted by: Liam-still | February 19, 2011 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Throw another tire on the fire Republicans, I am starting to get used to the smell and the oily black cloud raining cinders on your 2012 election prospects, is kinda pretty at sunset.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Like I always say: not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservative.

Posted by: wbowers | February 19, 2011 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Said it all last night but since I refuse to be on topic (it is just too stupid for words)...as today a banned Shiite cleric (banned for advocating violence against the US of Israel) regains his status in Egypt and Iranian ships transit Suez for the first time in decades...

"The withdrawal of security forces in Bahrain was a victory for the country’s main Shiite opposition bloc, which had rejected a call to negotiate from Bahrain’s Sunni monarch until the authorities pulled the military off the streets."

And what is the Bush/Obama administration foreign policy in the face of all this? The US response? Veto the UN resolution on Israeli "settlements" the I word I hate, it should be seen as Israeli ethnic cleansing as Liam suggests.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Even Karl Rove is right, or at least partially so, some of the time. The "birther" thing does make the Republicans look stupid. But they don't need the Democrats' help in that regard.

Posted by: thrh | February 19, 2011 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Birthers are the most Patriotic Americans of all. They should insist on getting an Obama Birth Certificate plank, at the Republican 2012 Convention.

Posted by: Liam-still | February 19, 2011 12:48 PM | Report abuse

In fact, the birther is wronger than wrong -- 180-degrees out of phase with reality. Most states will NOT accept the hospital birth certificate for identification purposes (to have a state ID or driver's license issued... U.S. State Department also will not accept). The hospital birth certificate ("long form," with the footprints on it, etc.) is FAR easier to forge than the state-issued document that is printed on security paper, and often embossed with a departmental seal.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Blow's C.I.A. generated graphic (!?) is depressing.

Empire at the End of Decadence makes no sense. He needs a different headline. The rich have never been more decadent and the poor and the working stiffs never were.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/19/opinion/19blow.html?hp

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 12:52 PM | Report abuse

It's REAL, folks. It really is. There is irrefutiatable evidence that Obama was born in two other countries.

Posted by: carlaclaws | February 19, 2011 1:06 PM | Report abuse

jprestonian, the State of Hawaii Director of Health claims that the original hospital birth certificate exists -- that won't be forged -- so why doesn't Obama simply consent to it being released?

Posted by: clawrence12 | February 19, 2011 1:16 PM | Report abuse

carlaclaws, how is one person "born" in two countries?

Posted by: clawrence12 | February 19, 2011 1:22 PM | Report abuse

"I can tell you, and I'm sure you can understand, that having larger classes because of layoffs probably will not *raise* the quality of that education, right?

It is fiscal malpractice on the part of the GOP-led Texas Lege that they are hell-bent on lowering taxes and 100K in layoffs in the face of an educational crisis."

Hi Chuck!  75 but overcast here in the bayou city.  Hope Denton is nice for you.  My answer is going to set people on edge, if you're inclined to not wanna be mad, don't read the rest. ;-)

I'm not convinced that smaller classrooms make a substantial difference in educational outcomes. Parental involvement, or should I say, parental oversight and addition are what improves your chdren's education. Having the state throw more money into the educational sinkhole won't improve the ability of Johnnie/Joannie to compete.  Only the parents of the kids, making sure they study and adding more studies at home will help. For example, my dad would make me read the paper before dinner and quiz me and my sister during the meal about the articles in it. 

Also, I think we're going to have to get used to larger classrooms and less police and fire protection.  We've, in my opinion, reached a point of state and federal finance that are beyond our ability to pay for, er, borrow and then eventually pay three times as much for and maintain a competitive economy.  

Hope everyone is, and will continue to have, a great day!  Now, commence fire! ;-)

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | February 19, 2011 1:25 PM | Report abuse

birthers....STUPIDEST PEOPLE ALIVE.

Posted by: rbaldwin2 | February 19, 2011 1:33 PM | Report abuse

I want to say something about those who continue to slander those who question Obama’s birth certificate.

But first, let’s take an objective look at Obama’s refusal to disclose records that are pertinent to not only the public view but also to the scholarly review of historians, an unprecedented non-disclosure of documents. The scope of hidden documents is breathtaking.

If a conservative running for the presidency had ever tried to conceal this much documentation of his/her life, you would be able hear the howls of the left and the Marx Stream Media in the next solar system.

Then there’s the absence of the ORIGINAL LONG FORM 1961 Hawaiian birth certificate.

I don’t know why a man who says he has nothing to hide would spend a fortune in an effort to keep this document out of the public eye.

Let me put this in slightly different way: what man will try to hide something if there’s nothing to hide? Only a complete idiot would say that a man who has nothing to hide will fight hook, tooth and nail to keep something hidden.

Where is the logic? It’s TOTALLY ILLOGICAL!

I think Obama was born in America. But I think the name reflected on his birth certificate is not that of Barack Hussein Obama. Instead, I think that birth certificate was changed to Barry Soetoro, a result of his adoption by Indonesian Lolo Soetero.

And this, dear folks, if true, would create a world of problems for Barack – or Barry.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | February 19, 2011 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Why did the Senate committee agree that John McCain was a Natural Born Citizen?
Oh yeah they said the only requirement was that he have been born of American parents no matter where he was born.
That is what makes a Natural Born Citizen according to the Judges who have ruled on it.

Who cares where Obama was born. It doesn't matter. As long as his parents were American Citizens, he could have been born on the moon.

Posted by: themunz1 | February 19, 2011 1:39 PM | Report abuse

I'm not a big fan of Politifact, though many here think it's credible. It says the Wisconsin will expect a budget shortfall this year. And it blames, to a large extent, the previous Governor. Jumping on the "Politifact is only meh" bandwagon will be snark free for the rest of the day. At least from me. ;-)

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/feb/18/rachel-maddow/rachel-maddow-says-wisconsin-track-have-budget-sur/

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | February 19, 2011 1:42 PM | Report abuse

All, here's a fresh OPEN THREAD for you:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/02/open_thread_21.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | February 19, 2011 1:43 PM | Report abuse

""Let me put this in slightly different way: what man will try to hide something if there’s nothing to hide? Only a complete idiot would say that a man who has nothing to hide will fight hook, tooth and nail to keep something hidden.""

You assume he's fighting to keep something that he has, hidden.

I say it's far simpler (and more logical) to assume that he doesn't know where the hospital certificate (not valid for ID purposes in most places, anyway) is at this point. I'm in that same boat. I saw it when I was a kid, before my parents divorced. Now, neither side knows what happened to it.

Rather than just come out and say that, it's more entertaining to watch the nutters invent time machines that were used to insert his birth announcement in newspapers, etc., though. ;)
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 1:46 PM | Report abuse

A third of the voters in the country question the President's legitimacy. Only inside the beltway is this considered a problem for the opposition party.

Posted by: jy151310 | February 19, 2011 1:52 PM | Report abuse

""A third of the voters in the country question the President's legitimacy. Only inside the beltway is this considered a problem for the opposition party.""

What're we supposed to do? Worry that someone might show up at one of his events with an AR-15?
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 1:56 PM | Report abuse

themunz1 said:

Why did the Senate committee agree that John McCain was a Natural Born Citizen?
Oh yeah they said the only requirement was that he have been born of American parents no matter where he was born.
That is what makes a Natural Born Citizen according to the Judges who have ruled on it.

Who cares where Obama was born. It doesn't matter. As long as his parents were American Citizens, he could have been born on the moon.

--------------------------------------------------

You are dead wrong!

McCain's birth was from that of two American citizens, but with his father serving in the military. All children born to the military personnel and diplomatic missions in foreign lands in behalf of the U.S. Government are automatically U.S. citizens.

At the time of Obama's birth, his father was a British citizen - not an American citizen, Therefore, Obama is NOT a natural born citizen.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | February 19, 2011 1:56 PM | Report abuse

""At the time of Obama's birth, his father was a British citizen - not an American citizen, Therefore, Obama is NOT a natural born citizen. ""

So, a child born on U.S. soil is **not** a natural born citizen unless both parents are U.S. citizens?

Man, you'd think there'd be ONE court in the country that would agree with you if that was the case. But sadly... no.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 2:00 PM | Report abuse

What's an AR15?

Posted by: jy151310 | February 19, 2011 2:03 PM | Report abuse

jprestonian said:

""Let me put this in slightly different way: what man will try to hide something if there’s nothing to hide? Only a complete idiot would say that a man who has nothing to hide will fight hook, tooth and nail to keep something hidden.""

You assume he's fighting to keep something that he has, hidden.

I say it's far simpler (and more logical) to assume that he doesn't know where the hospital certificate (not valid for ID purposes in most places, anyway) is at this point. I'm in that same boat. I saw it when I was a kid, before my parents divorced. Now, neither side knows what happened to it.

Rather than just come out and say that, it's more entertaining to watch the nutters invent time machines that were used to insert his birth announcement in newspapers, etc., though. ;)
---------------------------------------------------

He says he has it. But if he doesn't have it that makes him a bald-faced liar, doesn't it?

Why does he keep all of these documents hidden?:

- Marriage license between Obama's father (Barack Sr.) and mother (Stanley Ann Dunham) -- not found, not released
- Obama’s Baptism records -- sealed
- Obama's adoption records -- sealed
- Records of Obama's and his mother's repatriation as US citizens on return from Indonesia -- not found, not released
- Name change (Barry Soetero to Barack Hussein Obama) records -- not found, not released
- Noelani Elementary School (Hawaii) -- not released
- Punahou School financial aid or school records -- not released
- Occidental College financial aid records -- not released. - Columbia College records -- not released
- Columbia senior thesis -- not released
- Harvard Law School records -- not released
- Obama's law client list -- sealed
- Obama's files from career as an Illinois State Senator -- sealed
- Obama's record with Illinois State Bar Association -- sealed
- Obama's medical records -- not released
- Obama's passport records -- not released

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | February 19, 2011 2:04 PM | Report abuse

""He says he has it.""

Cite, please. I've never heard him comment on it. Not once.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 2:06 PM | Report abuse

"What's an AR15?"

Are you in Tripoli? You don't have Google where you are?

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 2:06 PM | Report abuse

As or the other "hidden/sealed" documents -- I have only your word on that, as well, but regardless, see no requirement in Sec.1, Article II that those records be made public.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Birthers are the most Patriotic Americans of all. They should insist on getting an Obama Birth Certificate plank included, at the Republican 2012 Convention.

Posted by: Liam-still | February 19, 2011 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Karl Rove is about three years too late in quelling the birther movement. His suggestion now seems like pure politics rather than disdain for the birthers. The smiling and smirking Rove sees how limiting such conspiracy theories really are now that the birthers can even unravel the Republican Party. At what point will Rove try to tame down Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter, and the like? They are over the top when it comes to the lady reporter who was sexually assaulted in Cairo. These guys seem to be cheering for the criminals. And they call this American! How sad! How pathetic!

Posted by: EarlC | February 19, 2011 2:18 PM | Report abuse

jprestonian said:

""At the time of Obama's birth, his father was a British citizen - not an American citizen, Therefore, Obama is NOT a natural born citizen. ""

So, a child born on U.S. soil is **not** a natural born citizen unless both parents are U.S. citizens?

Man, you'd think there'd be ONE court in the country that would agree with you if that was the case. But sadly... no.
------------------------------------------------------------

I would accept this logic only from the perspective of a progressive. All of the legal proceedings have failed because of a legal term called "standing."

But even this will eventually give way to the truth. You can delay truth but you can't kill it. He will be outed sooner or later and alongside whatever he is hiding.

And again, I think he was born in America. The issue of his "natural born citizen" status is quite another matter.

My contention, as one who works in information research, is very simple: people won't try to hide something when there's nothing to hide, and especially when it comes to something this derisive and toxic.

This is not my opinion. It's just a fact of life.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | February 19, 2011 2:20 PM | Report abuse

""My contention, as one who works in information research, is very simple: people won't try to hide something when there's nothing to hide, and especially when it comes to something this derisive and toxic.""

... unless it is clearly successful at making a segment of your opposition look completely mentally deranged. ;)
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Republicans created and suckled the "birther movement" it is their child. Now, as they try to kill the their kid, because it isn't polling well with the people who elect Presidents, we can laugh and laugh.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps "one who works in information research" would see the value of verifiable citations for one's assertions (as asked above).
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Obama will probably go down in US History as the President that out did Chester A. Arthur when it comes to usurping the presidency. And to think he was aided and abetted by a gullible and compliant media, and the US Congress, only adds piss to the pot. The two groups of Americans who are supposedly the watchdogs and defenders of the free world, let the constitution and our national heritage fall.

Obama was not born a US Natural Born Citizen, and nothing can convert him into a US Natural Born Citizen.

Barack H Obama II was born in the USA to a US citizen mother and a British citizen so at birth he was a Native Born US/British Dual Citizen, his citizenship was affected by the British Nationality Act of 1948 and later by the 1963 Kenyan Constitution, therefore he is a US Citizen, but not a US Natural Born Citizen. Yes, through changes in nations, he shed foreign obligations, but he did not gain anything to become a US Natural Born Citizen.

He was born to a UK citizen father, granting him direct UK citizenship under the BNA 1948. With dual citizenship, he can be a US Senator, not President. If married to a US Citizen, then he and Michele can birth US Natural Born Citizen children.

Can you comprehend that simple logic?
Do you see the error occurring by having an ineligible person as a US President?

Do you fully realize the downstream implications this will have on US politics?

If not, then enjoy the USA as we know it today, because when you finally have that epiphany* and figure it out, you'll be a "birther".

*e·piph·a·ny : a sudden, intuitive perception of or insight into the reality or essential meaning of something, usually initiated by some simple, homely, or commonplace occurrence or experience.

Posted by: borderraven | February 19, 2011 2:26 PM | Report abuse

One of above posts makes me LOL at something that I have missed all along. The birther movement would have been best aborted before it was born. Now that it is a living, breathing, full-grown conspiracy theory, they want to kill it. Anyone who would like to discuss abortion politics versus the politics of the living? Yes, Republicans will do anything now to prevent abortions, but will kill anyone living who does not agree with them. I haven't heard then protest the murders of family planning clinic doctors. There is something missing in Christian teachings in all of this.

Posted by: EarlC | February 19, 2011 2:30 PM | Report abuse

""Can you comprehend that simple logic?
Do you see the error occurring by having an ineligible person as a US President?""

I can comprehend that you believe this is the case, while also comprehending who is signing bills into laws, being C-in-C of the U.S. Armed Forces, etc., all the while seeing specious legal challenges based on such understandings being shot down at every level in every court.

It's surely the most massive conspiracy ever.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Adam Serwer is one of The American Prospect's highly paid Obamapologists, underwritten by George Soros.

The mainstream media, including of course The Washington Post, and various other Obama supporters have always been quick to purposefully focus on the so-called "birthers" to counter any mention of the increasing awareness of the fact that the current president continues to conceal virtually the entire paper trail of his existence in a tight shroud of secrecy.

By portraying the birthers as irrational or deranged individuals obsessed with the "outlandish conspiracy theory" that Barack Obama was born in Kenya or Indonesia or elsewhere outside of the United States, they constantly seek to avoid any emphasis on the fact that practically every original record or document from his entire past has never been released or allowed to be scrutinized.

American voters of all political persuasions can recall the Obama 2008 campaign repeatedly promising that their administration would uphold the highest ethical standards with a particular emphasis on transparency.

A vast majority of these voters believe that the process of running for President of the United States should be the toughest public job interview on the planet.

The sad fact remains that the current president, according to longstanding government clearance protocols, could not be hired as a janitor in a federal building with the amount of verifiable background information that he has provided.

Barack Obama's original typewritten long form birth certificate (if it does exist somewhere, or indeed has ever existed), school records, SAT and LSAT scores, college and law school admission records and grade transcripts and thesis papers, medical records, passport history, Illinois state senate tenure records, presidential campaign foreign donor lists, complete White House visitor logs and other relevant records and documents have all never been released or allowed to be subjected to any sort of scrutiny, despite several years of repeated requests for disclosure by numerous individuals and non-traditional media organizations.

The Obama 2008 campaign and subsequent administration have to date spent a substantial sum on legal fees, estimated in the millions of dollars, to fight Freedom of Information Act filings and other requests to examine this material. The powerful international law firm Perkins Coie LLP has been their primary provider of these services.

In fact, astute observers consider that the infamous original typewritten long form birth certificate, again, if it has indeed ever existed, is actually the least relevant item from Obama's hidden paper trail.

They understand the truth about Barack Obama's place of birth and the identity of both of his parents is far less important to the future of the United States than the truth about what makes him tick and who is pulling his strings, so to speak.

Posted by: FlashHarry | February 19, 2011 2:40 PM | Report abuse

There are some real sophisticated irrational arguments being posed that says that President Obama is not a nutural born American citizen because of the citizenship of his father. This is a bunch to garbage. The US Constitution as amended states that any person born within the United States of America is a natural-born citizen of the United States. This is the argument being used to change the Constitution by those who want immigration reform to deny citizenship to those born of illegal immigrants within the United States. You cannot have it both ways, you birther nuts.

Please read Amemdment 14 Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution. There are no exceptions. There are no parental qualifications for this amendment. There are too many pseudo-scholars on this blog that are making up the law as they write. For those too lazy to read it, the copy follows:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Posted by: EarlC | February 19, 2011 2:41 PM | Report abuse

I'm no particular fan of Carl Rove, but Mr. Sargent is surely making a tortured stretch in order to give Rove a kick in the pants. Mr. Rove has opined--correctly, of course--that the idea that Obama was not born in the US is simply wrong. (For those who still hang on to this turkey it might be worth recalling that former Governor Lingle, a Republican, reviewed the birth certificate and announced that born at Kapi'olani Hospital in Honolulu, Hawaii and is a natural born citizen of the US). Rove also opines that the articulation of this "birther" view harms the Republican cause and gives comfort to Democrats, including those in the White House, using the term "trap." OK. Mr. Sargent characterizes Rove's assertions as constituting a "conspiracy theory" which is " . . . less dumb than the original one, but not by much." This is a "conspiracy theory?" Rove rejects the birther point of view out of hand saying that it hurts the cause, and Sargent views this rejection as being only slightly "less dumb" than its acceptance. Please.

Posted by: vacohee | February 19, 2011 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Um, you mean Mr. **Serwer**, not Mr. Sargent.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Jprestonian said:

""Can you comprehend that simple logic?
Do you see the error occurring by having an ineligible person as a US President?""

I can comprehend that you believe this is the case, while also comprehending who is signing bills into laws, being C-in-C of the U.S. Armed Forces, etc., all the while seeing specious legal challenges based on such understandings being shot down at every level in every court.

It's surely the most massive conspiracy ever.
--------------------------------------

You are not paying attention. The only "level" that is being shot down is one called "legal standing." It’s a technical issue that has nothing to do with the veracity of plaintiffs’ claims, which are not being considered by the courts, and cannot be considered until the “standing” issue is satisfied.

The fact of the matter is that the U.S. Supreme Court has never had the occasion to rule on the Founding Father’s intent regarding the meaning of “natural born citizen,” SPECIFICALLY as it relates to a person’s eligibility for the U.S. Presidency.

It’s time for someone in this nation who has “legal standing” to grow a set and force the issue.

Problem is, the political class are ALL sniveling cowards.

And BTW, please tell me that you think it’s logical for someone to spend a fortune on legal fees to hide something when there’s actually nothing to hide.

I want to hear this right from your lips.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | February 19, 2011 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Presidents Washington, Jefferson, and Adams were not born in the good old US of A. Damn furners should have been removed from office.

Posted by: Liam-still | February 19, 2011 2:49 PM | Report abuse

""It’s time for someone in this nation who has “legal standing” to grow a set and force the issue.""

So... who has standing, then? Why can't you truth-seekers press one of them into service on this crusade?

Lakin's court martial seemed to indicate that Congress has standing. Do you have NO one willing to step forward for you in Congress in the matter?
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 2:52 PM | Report abuse

""And BTW, please tell me that you think it’s logical for someone to spend a fortune on legal fees to hide something when there’s actually nothing to hide.

I want to hear this right from your lips.""

My lips may be hard to hear over these electronic truck, or tubes, or whatever they are.

Again, I have only your assertions that this is the case. I have seen not one citation that would indicate that in actual, verifiable reality, this has occurred.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 2:55 PM | Report abuse

mafox - link us to anything referencing a private Obama attorney fighting birther lawsuits.

Posted by: JennOfArk | February 19, 2011 11:55 AM
------------------------------------
Jenn - Here's a link.
(http://papundits.wordpress.com/2009/04/16/obama-attorney-threatens-distinguished-veteran-on-obama-birth-certificate-issue-why/

Editor’s note: Barack Obama’s lawyer, Robert F. Bauer, is threatening a D.C. attorney with “sanctions,” because the attorney is simply requesting that Obama show proof of his birth. No legalizing on our part. No exaggeration. No political manipulation. Just the facts in black and white. We have the shocking letter dated April 3 . The president of the United States is threatening sanctions – and the word “sanctions” is used in the threat — against attorney John Hemenway. Read on.)

Posted by: mafox1 | February 19, 2011 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Unhappy Birthers to you;

Unhappy Birthers to you;

Unhappy Birthers Dear Karl;

Unhappy Birthers to you.

The Republicans lit all those candles, and it is fun watching you trying to blow them out!

Posted by: Liam-still | February 19, 2011 2:56 PM | Report abuse

jprestonian, the cite is his book "Dreams of My Father" where he writes that he found his birth certificate listing "Barack Obama Sr." Didn't you read that before voting for him? Just because you don't have your original doesn't mean he doesn't (or, more importantly, can't consent to the release of his original hospital birth certificate so it can properly be examined by the press).

Posted by: clawrence12 | February 19, 2011 2:57 PM | Report abuse

One can always tell right-wing-nutty conservatives, but you can tell them much!

Posted by: rbsher | February 19, 2011 2:59 PM | Report abuse

""mafox - link us to anything referencing a private Obama attorney fighting birther lawsuits.

Posted by: JennOfArk | February 19, 2011 11:55 AM
------------------------------------
Jenn - Here's a link.
(http://papundits.wordpress.com/2009/04/16/obama-attorney-threatens-distinguished-veteran-on-obama-birth-certificate-issue-why/""

Doesn't look like they had to fight the suit, at all -- the judge in the case ruled against the plaintiff, and mentioned in the ruling that the suit was frivolous. Appealing such a case can lead to sanctions against the filing attorney, as Dr. Orly Taitz Esq. DDS. learned.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Whether the current president's biological father was the late Kenyan Barack Obama "Sr." or the late CPUSA member Frank Marshall Davis or the late "grandfather" Stanley Armour Dunham (arguably the likeliest candidate - see cashill.com among many other sources) or some other man is rather insignificant compared with the facts about his past associations and ideological convictions and behavioral influences and ongoing relationships.

This is the sort of information about their presidential candidates that modern postwar era American voters had become accustomed to having the mainstream media provide for them, until 2008 when Barack Obama received an astonishing special exception from the traditional expectation that such candidates should allow for the release and scrutiny of the substantive body of their personal records and credentials.

In their eagerness to "make history" by covering the campaign of the man whom they were clearly very interested in helping to become the first black president, the mainstream media failed in their essential national responsibility, namely to report on significant events with thoroughness and impartial objectivity. They ignored their duty to search for the truth and should be regarded with disdain by all people who value information in a free society.

Democratic incumbents at all levels of government, as well as rank and file voters, might well demand to know exactly how Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid and the rest of their party leadership allowed a person who was obviously given only the most cursory sort of vetting to become their presidential nominee.

It is certainly true that there have been a few occasions when a presidential candidate has been evasive or less than completely forthcoming in following this important unofficial practice.

The medical records of JFK were allegedly sanitized to delete his diagnosis of Addison's disease and history of treatments for STD related maladies. The financial records of LBJ were allegedly altered to conceal the extent of his business ownerships and investment holdings. The national guard service records of W were allegedly missing or incomplete regarding his attendance and compliance with certain standard regulations.

All of these instances pale in comparison with the egregious unprecedented totality of secrecy that has always guarded practically every original record and document from the entire life of Barack Obama.

Virtually the entire paper trail of the current president's existence, from birth to the White House, continues to remain deeply hidden away.

Barack Obama and his handlers were able to hide his past and explain away and minimize his associations with highly controversial individuals and groups during their 2008 campaign.

Will they be able to effectively repeat this deception between now and 6 November 2012?

Only if you let them.

What is being hidden and why are they hiding it?

Posted by: FlashHarry | February 19, 2011 3:06 PM | Report abuse

And irony of ironies; Orly is an actual foreigner.

Posted by: Liam-still | February 19, 2011 3:08 PM | Report abuse

The biggest problem that critics of the “Birthers” have is their unwillingness to recognize that this issue is not going to go away. It’s only going to grow, as is evidenced by the poll that now shows most Republicans feel Obama is hiding something.

The fact that a majority of Republicans now have doubts about Obama’s birthright is SPECIFICALLY because he has fought so hard to conceal his original long form birth certificate. They simply don’t understand why he would fight so hard to hide something if he has nothing to hide.

Eleven states are now in the process of creating legislation that will require presidential candidates to show an original birth certificate establishing constitutional eligibility for the office before getting on the ballot beginning in 2012.

As I said, this controversy is not going to subside. Instead it’s only going to grow ever larger and more unmanageable for Obama.

Obama can stop all of this by simply producing the relevant documents.

But he won’t. The reason he won’t is because he has something to hide.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | February 19, 2011 3:08 PM | Report abuse

See -- it really *isn't* about the birth certificate. It's about 541 other things, and will eventually come down to a dental x-ray taken at age 9.

Perfectly reasonable, and not at all koo-koo for Cocoa Puffs.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 3:09 PM | Report abuse

All I can say is that it's a good thing Obama can prove where he was the last year of his obligation to serve in the Texas Air National Guard.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 3:11 PM | Report abuse

jprestonian said:

""And BTW, please tell me that you think it’s logical for someone to spend a fortune on legal fees to hide something when there’s actually nothing to hide.

I want to hear this right from your lips.""

My lips may be hard to hear over these electronic truck, or tubes, or whatever they are.

Again, I have only your assertions that this is the case. I have seen not one citation that would indicate that in actual, verifiable reality, this has occurred.
------------------------------------------------------------

If you think my comments are simply "assertions," then I suggest you do some independent research.

As for logic, I can't help you.

“Logic is the anatomy of thought”
~ John Locke

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | February 19, 2011 3:15 PM | Report abuse

I guess that jprestonian thinks Robert F. Bauer works for free. Nonetheless, JennOfArk simply wanted proof that Obama has a "private" attorney retained to continue hiding the truth.

http://papundits.wordpress.com/2009/04/16/obama-attorney-threatens-distinguished-veteran-on-obama-birth-certificate-issue-why/

In addition DOJ attorneys are fighting in court against these lawsuits too.

Posted by: clawrence12 | February 19, 2011 3:16 PM | Report abuse

""Eleven states are now in the process of creating legislation that will require presidential candidates to show an original birth certificate establishing constitutional eligibility for the office before getting on the ballot beginning in 2012.""

Would you agree to participate in an escrow account to wager on how many of these states Obama will or will not be on the ballot in November, 2012? You state the amount per state, and I'll look into the escrow account, if you're convinced this will have the impact you seem to think it will.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 3:16 PM | Report abuse

""If you think my comments are simply "assertions," then I suggest you do some independent research.""

I'm not trying to convince you it isn't true -- you're trying to convince me it **is** true.

And you are failing, by simply asserting without any references. If that's good enough for you, it's certainly good enough for me!
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 3:19 PM | Report abuse

jprestonian said:

See -- it really *isn't* about the birth certificate. It's about 541 other things, and will eventually come down to a dental x-ray taken at age 9.

Perfectly reasonable, and not at all koo-koo for Cocoa Puffs.
---------------------------------------

Now you are really stepping off the deep end. Your argument is one ruled by your emotions – resentment.

Dispassionate reason is the method of legitimate discourse.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | February 19, 2011 3:21 PM | Report abuse

""Your argument is one ruled by your emotions – resentment.""

Oh, that's rich, coming from someone who doesn't acknowledge the legitimacy of the President of the United States. :lol:
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 3:25 PM | Report abuse

... not to mention someone who nickname here contains a word for a negative emotion...! :lol: x2
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 3:27 PM | Report abuse

All presidents have private counsel. (And, BTW, Bauer hasn't been Obama's private counsel for over a year now.) But Obama hasn't been deploying his private counsel to "defend" against the frivolous Birther lawsuits. As others have noted, why would he waste the money on that nonsense?

DOJ attorneys have also not been fighting the frivolous Birther lawsuits. Or perhaps you can provide us with a cite that proves otherwise.

Posted by: JennOfArk | February 19, 2011 3:29 PM | Report abuse

I don't care about this topic, obviously, but I saw this.

“Logic is the anatomy of thought”
~ John Locke

If he said that, he was wrong. The anatomy of thought is something we still don't understand very well. But logic is, well if we are lucky and not emotionally upset, just a part of the product of the anatomy of thought.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 3:30 PM | Report abuse

""Or perhaps you can provide us with a cite that proves otherwise.""

Hey, don't bother the "one who works in information research" to share that research! What are you, a Marxist? Do your own research (which will be wrong if it doesn't agree with the "information researcher's," of course).
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 3:32 PM | Report abuse

I can.

Posted by: clawrence12 | February 19, 2011 3:32 PM | Report abuse

jprestonian said:

""If you think my comments are simply "assertions," then I suggest you do some independent research.""

I'm not trying to convince you it isn't true -- you're trying to convince me it **is** true.

And you are failing, by simply asserting without any references. If that's good enough for you, it's certainly good enough for me!
------------------------------------------

Either you are not listening or are incapable of reading.

I haven't asserted anything other than one basic thing: that Obama is hiding something.

"People do not try to hide things when they have nothing to hide, and especially in situations where the perception that they are hiding something is drawing damaging suspicion."

Now, let me tell you this: go ask any trained investigator from ANY organized investigative entity and put forth to them my last statement in quotations and ask them if I am correct or incorrect.

And then you will receive all of the "references" that you will ever need.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | February 19, 2011 3:35 PM | Report abuse

""I haven't asserted anything other than one basic thing: that Obama is hiding something.""

You've asserted plenty. Should I go back through the thread and come back with a full accounting of un-referenced assertions you have made? There really have been quite a few!
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 3:39 PM | Report abuse


Give it a break, Serwer! I think Rove's right.

You Journolistas and the White House are keeping the birther narrative going to discredit the GOP and take focus off Obama's disastrous economic policies of the past two years. For the Dems, they've been disastrous for the past four years (people tend to forget that fact).

All you and Obama are doing is calling more voters' attention to the Obama eligibility issue and pique their curiosity as to why he's spent over $2 million on lawyers instead of simply releasing his college transcripts & apps, medical and other records.

This ploy might backfire on Obama and the Dems.


Posted by: janet8 | February 19, 2011 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Conservatives are mentally ill, greedy trash.

Posted by: porcelainproductions | February 19, 2011 3:40 PM | Report abuse

jprestonian said:

""Your argument is one ruled by your emotions – resentment.""

Oh, that's rich, coming from someone who doesn't acknowledge the legitimacy of the President of the United States. :lol:
-----------------------------------

You just officially lost the debate.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | February 19, 2011 3:43 PM | Report abuse

""You just officially lost the debate. ""

As a player on the field, your credentials as referee are suspect.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 3:46 PM | Report abuse

janet8, supposedly all of the attorneys at Perkins Cole LLP and DOJ (including Assistant U.S. Attorney Robert West) all work for free now. There's no use trying to reason with them. We actually prove that Obama has a "private" lawyer fighting to hide the truth and they seamlessly move on the the next spurious allegation and ad hominem attack.

Posted by: clawrence12 | February 19, 2011 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Hostile would make a great NFL wide receiver, though. :lol:
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Brier Fox and Brier Bear thought that the tar baby was the Worst. Trap. Ever. (before they got caught ; )

Posted by: clawrence12 | February 19, 2011 3:54 PM | Report abuse

"Birthers" and birth certificates, whether the computer generated laser printed short form version which was posted on the Obama 2008 campaign website, or the widely discussed infamous original typewritten long form document (which has never been verified to actually exist, and may never have existed) serve as a convenient smokescreen for the Obama administration and their apologists to conceal the real issue, which is a simple matter of personal truth and transparency.

Virtually the entire paper trail of the current president's existence, from birth to the White House, continues to remain deeply hidden away in a tight shroud of secrecy.

This is the Achilles Heel of Barack Obama.

Astute observers in corridors of power around the world and other quarters understand that this issue will become the greatest obstacle to the current president's re-election, especially because of his 2008 campaign's repeated promise that their administration would uphold the highest ethical standards with a particular emphasis on transparency.

cashill.com

Posted by: FlashHarry | February 19, 2011 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Independent researchers report that Hawaii has indirectly admitted that Obama's posted short-form Certification of Live Birth is a forgery. They have stated that Obama's birth records on file are amended and that COLBs indicate when records are amended, which Obama's doesn't.

This isn't a big surprise, since this short-form COLB first turned up on DailyKos.com, after an almost identical blank form was posted during a forum discussion on how to forge presidential birth certificates.

Obama won't let anyone see it, except a couple of people from FactCheck, a pro-Obama site that pretends to be non-partisan, who are completely unqualified to determine its authenticity.

He fights lawsuit after lawsuit to keep his long-form birth certificate hidden rather than simply authorizing Hawaii to release all the records they have on file relating to his birth and authorizing the hospital at which he was born (his team has alternately claimed two different ones) to do the same.

Why don't his supporters call on him to simply authorize the release of this basic paperwork, which would supposedly provide the transparency he promised and shut the birthers up? Because they know he can't.

Posted by: carol24 | February 19, 2011 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Obama! Provide the documentation and put an instant, screeching halt to this controversy! Stop these crazy Birthers dead in their tracks!

You can do this, can’t you? Right?

God decided to create the perfect invertebrate imbecile. First he created jellyfish. That was practice. Then he created progressives and perfection was achieved.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge | February 19, 2011 4:00 PM | Report abuse

""Why don't his supporters call on him to simply authorize the release of this basic paperwork, which would supposedly provide the transparency he promised and shut the birthers up?""

Because it's more politically useful to have a segment of one's opposition look like stark, raving lunatics, as Adam's (and Karl's) original post on the matter posited?

Hey, they might be onto something, there.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 4:00 PM | Report abuse

""God decided to create the perfect invertebrate imbecile. First he created jellyfish. That was practice. Then he created progressives and perfection was achieved. ""

Too much dispassionate reason! Avert thine eyes! :lol:
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 4:02 PM | Report abuse

What's so sad about you Birthers is you don't even understand the basics behind your own contention that Obama's not a natural citizen.

FYI, a natural US citizen is one a)born in the US or b) born outside the US to a mother who is a US citizen.

Now, the whole Birther thing hinges on this very narrow thread: according to Birthers, back in 1961, if the female US citizen was under the age of 21 and gave birth outside the US, then (allegedly) their child would not automatically be a US citizen.

OK, so...the stretch to claim Obama's lack of citizenship had to invent a narrative of a secret overseas birth, because otherwise, there's no disputing Obama's citizenship. Here's where the batsh*t really goes off the rails.

According to the Birthers, Obama's mother, an 18-year-old girl who had never been out of the country, decided for reasons unknown that she'd prefer to give birth in Kenya, a less-developed country to which she'd never been. Because...no one knows why. I guess because some guy on the internet speculated that this is what happened - she just decided to go 10,000 miles from home to give birth. So, somehow (perhaps with a generous grant from a young George Soros), she came up with the money to fly halfway around the world for this purpose. Keep in mind that in 1961 commercial air travel was still rather novel, highly regulated, and very expensive. So expensive, in fact, that it would cost the equivalent of a college students' (which Obama's mother was at the time) annual living expenses to purchase the ticket. Then there's the thing about how pregnant women back then generally weren't allowed to fly in the last few months of pregnancy, certainly not across two oceans on the much longer flights of the era. So clearly his mother artfully concealed the evidence of pregnancy with a masterful disguise.

Having eluded detection on the flight to Kenya, Barack's mother gave birth there shortly after arriving, then smuggled a newborn aboard the plane for the arduous, 24-hour or longer flight home. Upon arrival, she decided that she wanted to fake things to make it look like Barack had been born right there in Hawaii, so she bribed the local papers with more Soros cash to plant fake birth notices indicating a stateside birth.

That's your theory, Birthers. And you think anyone should dignify that load of nonsense by even bothering to produce a piece of paper? Why? You'd just claim it's a fake. Because only people invested in believing what they want to believe would swallow the load of horsesh*t you've already digested in order to believe this codswallop in the first place.

Posted by: JennOfArk | February 19, 2011 4:05 PM | Report abuse

""That's your theory, Birthers.""

Not enough caliphate, time machines, needless government regulation or Tides Foundation.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 4:20 PM | Report abuse

$300,000,000.00 Fund Raiser for """Obama Proof of Eligibility""" Right now millions of Americans want to donate money to any group who will go after Obama and produce all his records? Upwards of 100 million people are demanding his records and willing to pay to see them, even large amounts of money woudl be donated some say by individuals? One person said, "Real long term success and greatness in our country are founded upon the principles that people do not lie, cheat, or steal but Obama does not know the meaning of these words. Our nation is neither succeeding nor is great at this point in time because we have allowed Obama's voice to grow and spread throughout our society. Shame on us, we shuld have said stop the lying long ago...
Our nation does have the potential to be a fabulous nation again; however, let’s stop kidding ourselves in thinking that we are a great nation currently. How is it that America has lost its greatness? One word, Obama!!!!

Posted by: Richie5 | February 19, 2011 4:22 PM | Report abuse

"Posted by: caothien9

This should get up the hit count.

1 | February 19, 2011 8:42 AM"


I wonder how he knew that?

Posted by: shrink2 | February 19, 2011 4:34 PM | Report abuse

There is a significant number of voters who believe peregrine Obama is not Constitutional qualified to be President and it is growing.

This includes birth in the United States, his natural born citizen status e.g. two citizen parents, and the 14th Amendment.

This is a complaint that must be addressed.

Even if eligibility is not a concern of the Washington Post it's uncertainty weakens the White House.

That is a danger to the Republic.

Writing about the birth certificate is a diversion.

Posted by: dancingrabbit | February 19, 2011 4:34 PM | Report abuse

JennOfArk, what is so sad about you is that you demand a link to anything referencing a private Obama attorney fighting birther lawsuits, and once we do that, you move right on to the next talking point.

And then YOU complain that if we got the original hospital birth certificate, that we would "just claim it's a fake. Because only people invested in believing what they want to believe would swallow the load of horsesh*t you've already digested". You are a hypocrite.

Posted by: clawrence12 | February 19, 2011 4:38 PM | Report abuse

hey Comrade claw-

Spied on any fellow citizens yet?

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | February 19, 2011 4:45 PM | Report abuse

It matters not where peregrine Obama was born he can never be a natural born citizen based on the foreign citizenship of his father.

Peregrine Obama does not qualify for citizenship due to the "subject to jurisdiction" in the 14th Amendment. Both parents must be citizens or at a minimum both must be permanently domiciled in the US. Peregrine Obama's father was a transient student.

It is doubtful peregrine Obama is a citizen even if he was born in Hawaii.

One thing is certain peregrine Obama is spurious born..and the spurious born cannot be natural born citizens.

Posted by: dancingrabbit | February 19, 2011 4:50 PM | Report abuse

JennOfArk the theory behind Obama being born in Kenya is that his mother Ann Dunham when to Kenya to visit her husbands parents (Obama Sr). Sources say that she was not well received by Obama's family and she did not like how Muslim Men treated their wives in Kenya. She stayed in Kenya for a couple months and decided she wanted to go back to Hawaii. The problem was the airline wouldn't let her board the plane because she was near her term. So she stayed in Kenya until the baby was born (Obama Jr), shortly after she went back to Hawaii.

Posted by: lockdeltz | February 19, 2011 5:02 PM | Report abuse

claw - as explained by others above, Obama has not had a private attorney fighting Birther suits in court. Your link showing that Obama's former personal counsel sent a routine letter stating this:

“I represent President Barack Obama and Vice President Joseph Biden. I write to request that, in light of the District Court’s March 24, 2009 Rule 11 order in Hollister v. Soetoro, No. 08-2254, you withdraw the appeal filed in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia, No. 09-5080. For the reasons stated in Judge Robertson’s order, the suit is frivolous and should not be pursued.

Should you decline to withdraw this frivolous appeal, please be informed that we intend to pursue sanctions, including costs, expenses, and attorney’s fees, pursuant to federal Rule Appellate Procedure 38 and D.C. Circuit Rule 38.”

...does not constitute Obama's attorney appearing to fight on his behalf in court; it is, as I said, routine when a case has been summarily dismissed (with prejudice, I'm guessing) for any appeal to incur sanctions. Because the judge has already ruled that there is no case, and in pursuing an appeal, the plaintiff is merely wasting the court's time, and both the taxpayers' and the defendant's money.

You'll have to come up with something a bit more substantial. This doesn't constitute a battery of high-powered attorneys doing the president's bidding and showing up in court to offer brilliant arguments as to why Birthers are insane; it doesn't even demonstrate anyone bothering to show up in court at all in the president's defense to fight off the mighty Birther foes. Your "oh HUH!" "proof" here is pretty weak tea, and damned boring to boot, if you ask me.

Posted by: JennOfArk | February 19, 2011 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Agree with Liam. You birthers make the rest of the GOP look kooky. Keep it up. It will turn independents off.

Oh Glen Beck calling Obama the anti-Christ us helpful too. Keep it up! It only helps Obama. Over the top Obama hatred is finally being recognized for what it is: A symptom of gullibility and a weak mind.

I agree that Rove is trying to replace one paranoid delusion with another. Doesn't bode well for the right wing. People who don't watch FoxNews see through it.

Posted by: Alex3 | February 19, 2011 5:04 PM | Report abuse

and lol at the comments complaining about people not talking about real issues. Please stick talking about education and unions somewhere else. As far as I can tell it's just one idiot with one a solution that really isn't one, and another idiot with a solution, yeah that's debating about *real* issues.

Posted by: lockdeltz | February 19, 2011 5:06 PM | Report abuse

You have no idea what you are talking about (on this subject, or on bounty hunters, or who spoke with their friend in the Wisconsin State Patrol):

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/district-of-columbia/dcdce/1:2008cv02254/134576/30/

Cole Perkins LLP (not just one lawyer either) has indeed fought birther lawsuits, on behalf of Obama, in court.

Posted by: clawrence12 | February 19, 2011 5:14 PM | Report abuse

The fact that a majority of Republicans now have doubts about Obama’s birthright is SPECIFICALLY because he has fought so hard to conceal his original long form birth certificate. They simply don’t understand why he would fight so hard to hide something if he has nothing to hide.

Posted by: HostileKnowledge

===========================================

Have you considered that may be by design?

The burden of proof of his place of birth is not on Obama, it's on his accusers.

Personally if I was Obama I would readily hire lawyers to fight any claims on my birth certificate, regardless of what's in it. The birthers will continue to make outlandish claims, look even more nutty and the GOP will continue to shoot themselves in the foot when they respond.

Posted by: bbface21 | February 19, 2011 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Rove's rumor from his Atwater Memorial Factory of dirty tricks backfired on him.

Posted by: areyousaying | February 19, 2011 5:17 PM | Report abuse

bbface21, so you don't agree with Adam that it is the Worst. Trap. Ever?

Posted by: clawrence12 | February 19, 2011 5:17 PM | Report abuse

lockdeitz - well, that's a stupid theory too, for this reason: Obama was born on Aug 4, and by September his mother was in Washington State, with him, and attending college there. In fact, here's the timeline: Fall 1960, Obama's mother starts college and meets Obama's father; by November she is pregnant with Obama. She and Obama's father marry in February. They may have lived together for the entire next 6 months until Obama was born, but definitely by only a month after he was born, they never live together again, or even in the same state.

Doesn't sound like the kind of relationship where she would have gone trotting halfway around the world, alone, to meet his family. How would I know she was "alone"? Well, because Obama's father was in Hawaii at the time taking classes.

So this intrepid pregnant newlywed 18-year-old went halfway around the world, alone, to a strange country, to meet complete strangers who had already voiced their opposition to the marriage? And spent a year's living expenses for the privlege? I'm sure.

Posted by: JennOfArk | February 19, 2011 5:23 PM | Report abuse

When one of the Trojan warriors was confronted over suspicions about their gift horse: "Hide anyone inside there?! Are kidding me? That would be the Worst. Trap. Ever."

Posted by: clawrence12 | February 19, 2011 5:26 PM | Report abuse

JennofArk, Pamela Barnett tried to get a hold of Ann Dunham's passport records in 1961 to see if she was in Kenya, but was denied.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/47558338/Evidence-of-State-Department-cover-up-of-Obama-s-birth-story

Posted by: lockdeltz | February 19, 2011 5:34 PM | Report abuse

claw - there's no "fighting in court" in summary dismissals. What there is are motions for summary dismissal filed with the court before the case ever goes anywhere. I'm not sure the judge even has to be on the bench in the courtroom to issue a summary dismissal - it may all be done with paper so as to avoid wasting time.

Posted by: JennOfArk | February 19, 2011 5:36 PM | Report abuse

""JennofArk, Pamela Barnett tried to get a hold of Ann Dunham's passport records in 1961 to see if she was in Kenya, but was denied.""

So, the State Department routinely releases that type of record to anyone who requests it?

Do you know? Have you thought to ask that question?
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 5:39 PM | Report abuse

bbface21, so you don't agree with Adam that it is the Worst. Trap. Ever?

Posted by: clawrence12

============================================

It's a bad trap but I think the GOP allowing the government to shut down and not raising the debt ceiling is a worse one (if we are talking about the 2012 election).

Posted by: bbface21 | February 19, 2011 5:41 PM | Report abuse

"So, the State Department routinely releases that type of record to anyone who requests it?

Do you know? Have you thought to ask that question?"

I don't know all the rules and laws about requesting information about passport records. I'm just stating what's said in the letter. She did receive passport records of Ann Dunham but it was in 1970. Read the link and see for yourself.

Posted by: lockdeltz | February 19, 2011 5:45 PM | Report abuse

JennOfArk, as I said, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Posted by: clawrence12 | February 19, 2011 5:46 PM | Report abuse

lockdeitz - I don't care. The whole thing is massively stupid. You have to be awfully invested in finding some reason to excuse your claims of illegitimacy for office that don't include "because he's black and has a foreign name" to swallow all that crap. It's clear the Obama marriage was not a successful one. And yet somehow his 18 year old mother scraped up a years' worth of income to go halfway around the world, while pregnant, alone, to a strange country, to meet the parents who objected to their son marrying her, because....????? She's going to do that for a marriage that isn't working out?

You guys are like the Underpants Gnomes; it's all:
Step 1: Steal underpants!
Step 2: ?????
Step 3: PROFIT!!!
...where you can posit all sorts of outlandish theories about how things MIGHT have happened, but no rationale as to why they would have happened that way if they in any way involved semi-rational, sane actors.

Unless of course those actors were also PSYCHIC and knew that someday the child Obama would become president, and so put into motion a dastardly scheme to have a foreign-born child become president because....?????

I mean, for reals, dog. If you really find this more plausible than what all the evidence suggests (NOT what "some guy on the internet has speculated"), which is that Obama was born in Hawaii where his mother was living at the time, you need to be medicated.

Posted by: JennOfArk | February 19, 2011 5:47 PM | Report abuse

""I don't know all the rules and laws about requesting information about passport records. I'm just stating what's said in the letter. She did receive passport records of Ann Dunham but it was in 1970. Read the link and see for yourself.""

Actually, she claims to have received such records, and has provided electronic copies of documents to back up that claim. Whether or not they are real is probably best answered by asking the State Department if one citizen can request the passport records of another citizen through a FOIA request. As far as I can tell, no one seems to have asked that of State, as if it is entirely irrelevant to the question at-hand.

Do I have that much correct, so far?
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Does it make sense that a citizen would have the right to know the travel history of another citizen, just for the asking?
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 6:08 PM | Report abuse

JennOfArk I don't take the letter with too much consideration, but I found the link and it was interesting. As for us being Underpants Gnomes, then why are you bothering talking about it? I mean for reals dog, if you don't want to analyze it than don't argue about it, don't even bother visiting this website. And you still haven't clawrence12 replies in which he dubunked numerous times. And I think it's you who needs medication.

Posted by: lockdeltz | February 19, 2011 6:14 PM | Report abuse

It makes more sense than thinking that Robert F. Bauer and everyone else at Perkins Coie LLP works for free.

Posted by: clawrence12 | February 19, 2011 6:16 PM | Report abuse

lockdeltz, it's no use trying to reason with Obamaniacs.

Posted by: clawrence12 | February 19, 2011 6:19 PM | Report abuse

Oh JennOfArk it doesn't cost a whole lot of money to travel to Kenya back then. You don't the personal relationship between Obama's parents, so don't make stupid assumptions. And there you are with your stupid rhetoric because he's black and religion and never did I implied I dislike him because of that.

Posted by: lockdeltz | February 19, 2011 6:19 PM | Report abuse

Looks like passport records are not subject to FOIA requests by individuals, but can be used by law enforcement types and Congress at the behest of the passport holder as of January, 2008, anyway.

http://cryptome.org/dos010908.htm
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 6:20 PM | Report abuse

From the State Department web site @ http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/128321.pdf

""4. Access to Someone Else’s Records
The Department allows third party access to records under certain conditions.
If you would like to request personal information about another individual or if you are
requesting personal records on behalf of someone else, you must provide the following:
a. Personal verification from the individual(s) whose records are being requested. Please
provide a signed, notarized statement from the individual(s), swearing that they are
individual whose records are being requested.
b. Written consent from the individual whose records are being requested. Please provide
a signed, notarized statement from the individual(s), authorizing the Department of
State to release information to you.

The above statements should bear the original signature of the individual and original seal of
the notary and be dated within six months of the date of the request.

If notarization is not possible, the individual(s) whose records are being requested may give
authorization under penalty of perjury. The penalty of perjury statement must be mailed to us
with a current date and an original signature (not a copy or facsimile). ""

So, I guess the whole thing is a ruse.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 6:25 PM | Report abuse

Shrink, thanks for all the links.

So, what else is happenong?

Posted by: mark_in_austin | February 19, 2011 6:36 PM | Report abuse

lockdietz - the particulars of the Obamas' marriage - they married in Feb. 1961, Obama was born in Aug. 1961, and Mrs. Obama had relocated to Seattle by September of 1961 while Mr. Obama remained in Hawaii don't speak of a couple together for the long haul. As I said, they never again even lived in the same state. This is all public record - Mr. Obama was enrolled in college in Hawaii while Mrs. Obama was enrolled in college in Seattle. It was at the most a 7-month marriage; after that the parties never lived together. It's unknown if they were even living together at the time of Obama's birth; the address given in the birth announcements is his mother's parents' address. She might well have been living there without Obama Sr. even at the time of the birth.

As for 1961 airfares, you can find information on this wonderful invention called "the internet" as to what air travel cost back then, vs. average wages. Which I've done.

Posted by: JennOfArk | February 19, 2011 6:50 PM | Report abuse

It just didn't make sense to me that one individual could request the passport records of another without their express permission.

Turns out I was right. D'oh!
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 7:01 PM | Report abuse

Sen. McConell has never said he is actually 'human', but I guess if he did say it I might take him at his word.

On the other hand, I know many consider him a weasel, so my personal doubts persist.

Posted by: HillRat | February 19, 2011 7:02 PM | Report abuse

Reading these comments Jenn, you've been dubunked numerous times. As for Obama being born in Kenya, I offered an explanation from what I heard and theories.

Other than his birth certificate there is not a single record Obama has disclosed and has spent millions of dollars on attorneys to make sure he doesn't show his records as evidence to the courts. Did you know congress never vetted Obama's eligibility, which is why 10 states are now introducing legislation that vets presidential candidates.

Posted by: lockdeltz | February 19, 2011 7:04 PM | Report abuse

lockdietz, Obama's mother came from an upper middle class family, so if they helped pay for her airfare to Kenya. Even today, I doubt that many starving students could pay for that themselves. Again, it's no use reasoning with Obamaniacs.

Posted by: clawrence12 | February 19, 2011 7:10 PM | Report abuse

""and has spent millions of dollars on attorneys to make sure he doesn't show his records""

Citation, please.

I've heard that several times, today. Never a link to show evidence that it's true, which leads me to believe that it is -- like the FOIA request for Obama's mom's passport records -- a complete fabrication.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 7:10 PM | Report abuse

""On the other hand, I know many consider him a weasel, so my personal doubts persist.""

I also doubt this, as I think weasels have lips.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 7:11 PM | Report abuse

RE: airfare prices in 1961, there's no information on "Honolulu - Nairobi" flights, but here's some international flight costs from London for 1960:
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1960/1960%20-%202207.html?search=fares

Extrapolating cost of airfare from London to Nairobi, plus London to Hong Kong (which together equal air flight distance of Hawaii - Nairobi - and airfares did seem to be based on mileage back then, since the 4K mile trip to Nairobi was priced at 165 British pounds while the 8K mile trip to Hong Kong was priced at 311 pounds), we get a cost of 476 pounds for an 11K mile trip from Hawaii to Nairobi.

The value of a 1960 British Pound was 15.41 in 2010 pounds; the comparable price for this journey in 2010 would be 7335 British Pounds, or $11,025 in 2010 US dollars.

Average per capita income in Hawaii in 1959 was $1,863. In 2010 dollars, that's $13,872. And then, of course, full-time students typically don't earn an average income, so the Obamas were probably living on a lot less.

But whatever. I'm sure Obama's mother made a deal with Mao or somebody to come up with the scratch for the trip. Because....????? Again, get medicated.

Posted by: JennOfArk | February 19, 2011 7:19 PM | Report abuse

Seems to me that the only people that want to continue this garbage are the democrats....so, who cares?

Posted by: SeniorVet | February 19, 2011 7:36 PM | Report abuse

Wake up people! Our president needs to come clean! It is clear to anyone with an ounce of intelligence that O'Bama was born Ireland!

Posted by: TJDemo | February 19, 2011 7:36 PM | Report abuse

The infamous original typewritten long form birth certificate of the current president, the most widely discussed item from his extensive hidden paper trail, has never been verified to have even existed.

The only birth certificate for Barack Obama that has ever been produced is the computer generated laser printed short form version that first appeared on his 2008 campaign website.

There exists a widespread and growing speculation that Barack Obama's biological father was not the late Kenyan Barack Obama "Sr." and his birth mother was not the late Stanley Ann Dunham.

A compelling body of evidence (see cashill.com among many other sources) suggests that the real father was the late "grandfather" Stanley Armour Dunham, and the birth mother was an unidentified black female, perhaps from the Honolulu beatnik bar and coffee house scene that Stanley was known to frequent with his close friend the late CPUSA member Frank Marshall Davis.

Allegedly Stanley Armour Dunham, reputed to be a strong-willed controlling sort of man, had long desired to have a son (perhaps indicated by naming his daughter after himself) and gave the infant to his passive obedient daughter to raise. Her marriage of convenience to the Kenyan would have been beneficial to all concerned parties, providing the boy with an ostensible father and Barack Obama "Sr." with the legal justification to continue residing in the United States to pursue his studies.

This would explain why there has never been any record or document or witness to indicate that Stanley Ann Dunham ever gave birth anywhere in Hawaii at any time, and why no physician or nurse or administrator has ever been found to have any connection with or knowledge of the birth of the current president.

It was not at all difficult for anyone in 1961 to provide selected details to register a child with the state of Hawaii and obtain a simple short form certificate of live birth.

Thus, according to this theory, the so-called "birthers" have got hold of the wrong end of the stick, so to speak.

The current president was born in Hawaii and being over the age of 35 in 2008, was certainly eligible to run for the office of President of the United States.

His reasons for continuing to conceal virtually the entire paper trail of his existence are, of course, quite another matter.

It is possible that the real truth behind Barack Obama's origins may never be verified.

Certainly it remains a matter of speculative interest. Those who care to look further into the vast body of evidence, such as the poem "Pop" which was written by the current president when he was 19, the timeline of the travels of Stanley Ann Dunham, comparison photographs of all of the involved individuals, witness affidavits about their relationships and other material can easily find it.

"Birthers" and birth certificates?

Just an irrelevant smokescreen for a more comprehensive concealment of the truth.

Posted by: FlashHarry | February 19, 2011 7:59 PM | Report abuse

"""Birthers" and birth certificates?

Just an irrelevant smokescreen""

... but while I have your attention, let me tell you why the birth certificate is relevant!

:lol: x10
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 8:17 PM | Report abuse

My original hospital birth certificate from 1963 (the whereabouts of which are completely unknown, although it's likely moldering in a cardboard box in one of two states) was not typewritten -- it was handwritten! And it had my little baby footprints on it, too. It was put in a holder like a diploma holder, and was done up in white satin and blue ribbons ('cause I was a baby boy).

I couldn't get a passport or state-issued ID of any kind in any state I've lived in with it, btw. If I had it, which I do not.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 8:23 PM | Report abuse

The GOP does not need help in looking goofy. They are doing fine on their own, thank you.

Posted by: pjohn3 | February 19, 2011 8:36 PM | Report abuse

For anyone arguing with jprestonian, there's a difference between the cute handwritten certificate given to parents with footprints and blue or pink satin ribbon and the document forwarded to the State, signed by the attending physician.

Posted by: clawrence12 | February 19, 2011 9:07 PM | Report abuse

This is what America has fallen to. A bunch of paranoid bedwetters whonlike tho think they're living in some sort of John Forsythe novel and instead of escaping reality with booze or dope they nurture fantasies that the president is an imposter.

How shabby.

Posted by: caothien9 | February 19, 2011 10:19 PM | Report abuse

I have my own original BC somewhere. Issued by the military hospital at West Point. It's about 5" x 8". No footprint. There is no "long form" and never was. Not every hospital issues them. That's why the birthed buffoons always specify that's it would take to satisfy them (it wouldn't, they have too much invested in this fantasy).

What doesn't exist can't be produced, and lest we forget, these are the same loonies who refused to believe Saddam had no WMDs too.

Maybe Obama's long form is in Bekaa Valley.

Posted by: caothien9 | February 19, 2011 10:26 PM | Report abuse

jprestonian is perhaps an intern or first year associate at Perkins Coie LLP, currently assigned as weekend damage control blogger, monitoring various websites to counter any mention of client Obama's hidden paper trail.

Or more likely just another Kool-Aid guzzling leftist wanker.

Posted by: FlashHarry | February 19, 2011 10:28 PM | Report abuse

""I have my own original BC somewhere. Issued by the military hospital at West Point. It's about 5" x 8". No footprint. There is no "long form" and never was. Not every hospital issues them.""

I dunno what year you were born, but in the early 1960s, it was commonplace for the hospital to issue a document with the footprint(s), mother's and father's name attending physician and/or midwife (if any), time/date of birth, baby's name and baby's length and weight at birth. It was largely ceremonial, and worthless as anything other than a keepsake.

What mattered is the weekly/monthly report made to the state's "bureau of vital statistics" (or whatever it may have been called in other states), who would issue an official document, such as the one we saw proffered for Barack Obama in 2008.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 10:34 PM | Report abuse

Speaking as a Democrat, I absolutely love this thread! If birthers become the public face of the GOP, Obama will be re-elected in a 40-state landslide.

Posted by: hastingst | February 19, 2011 10:35 PM | Report abuse

FlashHarry can't produce any links to prove any of its specious assertions, but we have come to expect this, have we not?
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 10:36 PM | Report abuse

Why does Barack Obama continue to conceal practically every original record and document from his past, virtually the entire paper trail of his existence from birth to the White House, in a tight shroud of secrecy?

Barack Obama was presented in 2008 as a brilliant intellectual with stellar Ivy League credentials whose cool low key style would transform the culture of Washington and lead America into a new harmonious postracial era while achieving miracles of bipartisan cooperation with a particular emphasis on ethics and transparency.

It has become quite clear how this ridiculously wishful fantasy has really played out.

There exists a widespread and growing international speculation that an objective examination of Barack Obama's hidden paper trail would clearly reveal that his meteoric rise up the educational and career ladders was largely the result of multiple affirmative action decisions and that his vaunted intellectual reputation was greatly exaggerated.

In short, just another leftist ideologue big city machine politician with more than a touch of narcissism and a proven record of self-serving dealmaking.

Barack Obama and his handlers were able to successfully hide his past and explain away and minimize his associations with highly controversial individuals and groups during their 2008 campaign.

Will they be able to effectively repeat this deception between now and 6 November 2012?

Only if you let them.

Posted by: FlashHarry | February 19, 2011 10:45 PM | Report abuse

""Why does Barack Obama continue to conceal practically every original record and document from his past, virtually the entire paper trail of his existence from birth to the White House, in a tight shroud of secrecy?""

I think we already established it was to do the equivalent of telling someone like you to urinate in the corner of a round room, and to watch the resulting hilarity.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 10:48 PM | Report abuse

(O. M. F. G., I can't believe I read this whole comment thread. Painful!) Am I totally out of touch? Are there really enough birther people out there that I should worry about them? What can they do besides be total pains in the rear?

Posted by: cheles | February 19, 2011 10:49 PM | Report abuse

I've clearly gone about this all wrong.

Tomorrow, I will start working on a new birther theory, find a convenient, useful idiot to use as a poster child, and set up a web site and PayPal account to accept donations.

Wanna bet I can rake in six figures by 12/31/2011?
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 10:52 PM | Report abuse

Rove is about as balanced as his hero Joey Goebbels.

Posted by: Bushwhacked1 | February 19, 2011 11:09 PM | Report abuse

These Birthers are almost as nutty as the lib 9/11 Truthers.

Posted by: illogicbuster | February 19, 2011 11:09 PM | Report abuse

"Why does Barack Obama continue to conceal practically every original record and document from his past, virtually the entire paper trail of his existence from birth to the White House, in a tight shroud of secrecy?"
---------------------------------------
Well, he is the first Pres in our lifetime to seal his college records. It ISN'T for ANY good reason.

That's indisputable/

Posted by: illogicbuster | February 19, 2011 11:16 PM | Report abuse

""Well, he is the first Pres in our lifetime to seal his college records. It ISN'T for ANY good reason.""

You're saying that being a Cylon **isn't** a good reason?
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 19, 2011 11:24 PM | Report abuse

Obama has been caught in lie after significant lie. Researchers have reported that Hawaii has indirectly confirmed that the Certification of Live Birth (COLB) posted online by Obama is a forgery. Hawaii has confirmed at various times that Obama's birth record has been amended and that COLBs indicate amendments, something Obama's online COLB does not.

Let's see the paperwork.

Posted by: carol24 | February 19, 2011 11:57 AM

Now here's the real birther trap -- "show us a Long Form and we will be satisfied". No way, any document produced will be immediately denounced as a forgery as well and the birthers will demand a forensic analysis, depositions, etc., etc., etc. Rove's absurd theory is merely proof that Obama is doing the right thing - let the birthers do all the talking as they continue to saw off the limb they are sitting on.

Posted by: Natmeister | February 19, 2011 11:27 PM | Report abuse

Rove is right. Only not just the White House - we progressives are all hoping the birthers never give it up. It has been the most entertaining of conservatives themes ever. Though I am starting to wonder if this is some kind of pathology that is eating the brains of our Repubican friends.

Posted by: stephenbach | February 20, 2011 12:09 AM | Report abuse

The first new rule says you HAVE to have insurance. Both my husband and I have pre-existing conditions, and although the new bill says we can't be denied coverage because of it. So far, the cheapest health insurance we've been able to find is called "Wise Health Insurance" search for it online if you are pre-existing conditions.

Posted by: parkesrevan | February 20, 2011 12:11 AM | Report abuse

jprestonian the link to where Obama spent over $2 million dollars on attorneys.

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=114202

Posted by: lockdeltz | February 20, 2011 12:16 AM | Report abuse

""jprestonian the link to where Obama spent over $2 million dollars on attorneys.""

Sounds more like Obama's contributors paid...

BUT! Did you check the kerning? After all, this is WingNutDaily. Did you compare those docs to the ones on the FEC web site?

No...?
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 20, 2011 12:21 AM | Report abuse

freerepublic has a new name for obama. It is peregrine obama.

It does not mean a falcon.

Posted by: dancingrabbit | February 20, 2011 12:38 AM | Report abuse

You're a moron, Sargent.

And a JournoLister.

Pretty much explains it all.

Posted by: asdf2 | February 20, 2011 1:00 AM | Report abuse

""You're a moron, Sargent.""

I'll tell you who the moron is: The person unable to tell Serwer from Sargent in the by-line.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 20, 2011 1:05 AM | Report abuse

"""I would suppose the Federal and State governments are the biggest birthers of all. Short form birth certificate doesn't cut it with them."" You're wrong. It'll get you a driver's license/state ID in all 50 states, and a U.S. Passport. I know. I had to order one for these purposes (although admittedly I did not try to get a driver's license in all 50 states). Posted by: jprestonian |"

It will also get you into the Armed Forces.

By the way, that "short form" is a notarized, legal document. It the Notary puts his or her seal on a document that attests to something not true the Notary commits a felony.

But you waste your time arguing with birthers. Truth to them isn't reality based, it is ideology based. The politicians kowtowing to their lies do so because they don't value the truth anymore than the birthers do. It is their secret handshake, I am one of you and I will back your lies to prove it.

You wonder if any of them EVER did a documents search in the County Recorder's office.

Posted by: ceflynline | February 20, 2011 1:12 AM | Report abuse

""It will also get you into the Armed Forces.""

They'll take Messicans into the Armed Forces, ever since that Marxist George W. Bush came to power. Messicans don't gotta be no citizens.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 20, 2011 1:15 AM | Report abuse

You are getting bitter, sir, and i doth not become you.

Posted by: ceflynline | February 20, 2011 1:23 AM | Report abuse

"Sounds more like Obama's contributors paid...

BUT! Did you check the kerning? After all, this is WingNutDaily. Did you compare those docs to the ones on the FEC web site?

No...?"

Over 2 million dollars is 2 millions dollars, that's a lot money for a single law firm. And Perkins Coie was involved in one of Obama birther lawsuits.

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/district-of-columbia/dcdce/1:2008cv02254/134576/30/

Posted by: lockdeltz | February 20, 2011 1:24 AM | Report abuse

Taking the President at his word about his birthplace is one of the stupidist lines the GOP has come up with. Who "remembers" where they were born? It's heresay. The only proof is the official documents of the state of Hawaii.

Posted by: DGSPAMMAIL | February 20, 2011 1:33 AM | Report abuse

ceflynline

Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth was in effect from 1911 until 1972 and allowed someone who was born outside the Hawaiian Islands to be registered as though he were born in Hawaii. Under that law, someone simply would have presented herself to the Hawaiian authorities and declared that the child was born in Hawaii. The person could have sworn under oath and presented witnesses and other evidence. If the authorities accepted it, that was the end of it. All a person had to do was file a false statement and Hawaii took them at their word.

Was Obama born in Kenya or Hawaii? Did he denounce his citizenship when he moved to Indonesia? We won't know until Obama releases his records.

Posted by: lockdeltz | February 20, 2011 1:43 AM | Report abuse

Facts are facts! It's his fathers standing that matters not his. His father was a Kenyan Brit under British Law and the British Nationality Act of 1948. Therefore any child of )o( Sr was born a British Subject. )o( Sr was never an American Citizen! Being born of a British Subject little )o( was born ineligible to ever be considered a Natural Born American Citizen even if he was born in Hawaii! These are the facts that matter not a BC or a COLB. Google - "John Jay, George Washington, Natural Born" and prove it to yourself!

Posted by: old1 | February 20, 2011 2:11 AM | Report abuse

"Oh JennOfArk it doesn't cost a whole lot of money to travel to Kenya back then. You don't the personal relationship between Obama's parents, so don't make stupid assumptions. And there you are with your stupid rhetoric because he's black and religion and never did I implied I dislike him because of that.
Posted by: lockdeltz | February 19, 2011 6:19 PM"

You may not "dislike" Obama, but it's obvious you're less than fond of proper grammar and logical coherence.

Posted by: kingcranky | February 20, 2011 2:30 AM | Report abuse

Contrary to a popular misconception, there is no requirement for the FBI or NSA or CIA or any other law enforcement or intelligence entity to conduct any sort of background investigation or security clearance of presidential candidates.

The only vetting for them has always been the actual process of a presidential election campaign, with the scrutiny of the media covering everything from candidate announcements through primary elections and nominating conventions and on to November, and public opinion and ballots cast are the ultimate deciding factors.

Once a presidential election is certified by the Electoral College, the matter is a fait accompli.

It had become customary for modern postwar era presidential candidates to allow for the release and scrutiny of the substantive body of their personal records and credentials, indeed up until 2008 in large measure precisely because of a strong interest from the mainstream media.

The appearance of Barack Obama upon the national political scene changed that dynamic, and he received an astonishing special exception from this important unofficial traditional practice.

In their eagerness to "make history" by covering the campaign of the man whom they were clearly very interested in helping to become the first black president, the mainstream media failed in their essential national responsibility, namely to report on significant events with thoroughness and impartial objectivity. They ignored their duty to search for the truth and should be regarded with disdain by all people who value information in a free society.

It is certainly true that there have been a few instances when a presidential candidate has been evasive or less than completely forthcoming in their cooperation with this custom of transparency that American voters have come to expect.

The medical records of JFK were allegedly sanitized to delete his diagnosis of Addison's disease and history of treatments for STD related maladies. The financial records of LBJ were allegedly altered to conceal the extent of his business ownerships and investment holdings. The national guard service records of W were allegedly missing or incomplete regarding his attendance and compliance with certain standard regulations.

All of these instances pale in comparison with the egregious unprecedented totality of secrecy that has always guarded practically every original record and document from the entire life of Barack Obama.

Virtually the entire paper trail of the current president's existence, from birth to the White House, continues to remain deeply hidden away.

Portraying the "birthers" as irrational or deranged individuals obsessed with the belief that Barack Obama was born in Kenya or Indonesia or elsewhere outside of the United States allows Obama and his apologists their most effective shield to counter the growing awareness of the fact of this comprehensive deception.

What is being hidden and why are they hiding it?

Posted by: FlashHarry | February 20, 2011 6:09 AM | Report abuse

Because he's a Cylon and he's infiltrated the highest levels of government to make Rick Santorum look bad.

Posted by: caothien9 | February 20, 2011 6:47 AM | Report abuse

Rove's a dimwit. There is no plot, they actually are a bunch of dimwits. To be in the GOP these days it to wear a red badge of stupid.

Posted by: Nymous | February 20, 2011 7:38 AM | Report abuse

What makes this so insane is that John McCain was born in Panama (The Panama Canal Zone) while his family was stationed there. Karl Rove and the rest of his parrots said nothing during the 2010 campaign about him being born off the native soil of the United States. President Obama was born in Hawaii, long after it became our 50th state. Both Senator McCain and President Obama meet the constitutional requirement to be President. Truly being consistent would help Mr. Rove and the parrot chorus appear more genuine.

Posted by: cdlumpkin | February 20, 2011 8:10 AM | Report abuse

Someone above called Karl Rove a "dimwit". That's rich! That "dimwit" outwitted the best and brightest liberals the Democrat party could muster up for eight years. Now what does that say about the liberals/Democrats???

Dumb, dumber, and dumber than dumb!

Look what the Obamacrats did in only two years. They have bankrupted America and they blew their grand majority to smithereens. To call Obamacrats dimwitted would be an insult to real dimwits.

What a hoot!


Posted by: battleground51 | February 20, 2011 8:23 AM | Report abuse

So what if Obama was born in Kenya...he is a human and great one at that...because he left Kenya (according to the idiots) and took over their country without firing a shot...isn't that great

Posted by: tafari1_20001 | February 20, 2011 8:28 AM | Report abuse

What Rove is really saying is that once again the right wing is not at fault for their own lunacy. And as is typical they look to shift the blame, in this case to Obama. They are blaming the victim.

Why can't republicans ever admit a mistake, admit they may be wrong, admit they have ruined this country through high spending with tax cuts and wars of choice. Why can they not admit that their policy of "borrow and spend" is actually worse than the "tax and spend" charge they level at democrats? Why cannot republicans simply be honest, even with themselves?

Posted by: Fate1 | February 20, 2011 8:29 AM | Report abuse

Until Barack "Who-Sane" Obama can positively prove he is a natural born, American, there will be legitimate questions about it.

Here's a scary thought for Obama and his 'crats:

What if the "birthers" turn out to be correct??

A Constitutional crisis of historic proportion would ensue. It would make WATERGATE look like a case of jaywalking.

Obama would be forced to resign, tried and sent to federal prison along with all his enablers. It would be a total wipeout for the Democrat party.

All Obama legislation would be declared null-and-void.

I'm sure this is why they protest so much. They are not sure the "birthers" are NOT right and they are real SCARED.

Posted by: battleground51 | February 20, 2011 8:33 AM | Report abuse

Republicans need no assistance from the White House in making themselves look like fools. If it's a trap, there's no need to fall into it, but the truth is that it's always Republicans bringing up this issue, and ginning up the birther crowd with this most ridiculous and disprovable of conspiracy theories.

Republican leaders should put it to rest once and all, and move on to serious topics, but they are not serious people and have no answers to the real problems that befall us. After all, they were right behind Bush every step of the way while we entered 2 wars and the economy went into freefall. They were wrong then and they continue to be wrong now. Good on Jeff Flake for dismissing such hooey, but he's a rare bird among the cuckoos. Let's see if he is punished for it.

Posted by: Pupster | February 20, 2011 8:34 AM | Report abuse

battleground51 says: "Here's a scary thought for Obama and his 'crats: What if the "birthers" turn out to be correct??"

Yes, what if? And what if monkeys flew out of your butt? And what if the moon were made of cheese? And what if you were the illegitimate offspring of a mentally challenged lemming and his dodo lover? Yes, so many what ifs.

You truly must have the mental range of a gnat to obsess about such a scenario.

Posted by: Pupster | February 20, 2011 8:45 AM | Report abuse

If the "birthers" turn out to be correct about Barack "Hosni" Obama, Obama will be guilty of "grand treasonous fraud".

He'll have to get the best lawyer in the world just to get life.

I foresee a special cell in Guantanamo for "The One".

He'll be in bad company but he'll fit in.

Posted by: battleground51 | February 20, 2011 8:46 AM | Report abuse

I have proof that President Obama was not born in the USA but in Kenya. I'll bring it to the fore when the time is right.

Posted by: whynotajoke | February 20, 2011 8:54 AM | Report abuse


I can see it now. Obama with his head shaved and wearing a bright orange jumpsuit. Cameras clicking and the Obama media jabbering away, as usual.

Who needs Osama bin Laden?!

We got the big guy!!

Posted by: battleground51 | February 20, 2011 8:55 AM | Report abuse

No. I need to manufacture something to take advantage of deranged fools. I need time.

Posted by: whynotajoke | February 20, 2011 8:57 AM | Report abuse

I suspect there might be something to what the "birthers" claim. Why else would the Obamatons protest SO much??

I also suspect that certain persons have proof that B.O. is not a natural born American.

They want to keep it under wraps until election 2012 is well under way. When the time is right, maybe October 1, 2012, these people will spring it to the general media and blow campaign Obama out of the water along with the remainder of his 'crats.

Karl Rove is playing it foxy, that's for sure. He knows how to play the game.

Off to Guantanamo for Obama & Co.

Posted by: battleground51 | February 20, 2011 9:05 AM | Report abuse

About 1/4 of the population is a "bither"

The dissmissive disdain from fake intellectuals known as "libs" and this joke of an author sargent will only lead to further animosity.

obama is unelectable.

his name won't be on many ballots.

most divisive leader in US history.

Posted by: docwhocuts | February 20, 2011 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Pupster, it's NOT always Republicans bringing up this issue. See, e.g. Serwer, Adam (above) or Matthews, Chris (MSNBC). Additionally, the Socratic method (look it up) is used in most ABA-accredited law schools, and this particular "what if" scenario would fit right into a con law or criminal law class.

Posted by: clawrence12 | February 20, 2011 9:33 AM | Report abuse

jeeeez - the White House doesn't need to make the Republican Party look kooky - they're doing it all by themselves.

Posted by: angie12106 | February 20, 2011 9:40 AM | Report abuse

""Over 2 million dollars is 2 millions dollars, that's a lot money for a single law firm. And Perkins Coie was involved in one of Obama birther lawsuits.""

So, this is an unusual amount for a presidential campaign to pay any single law firm in the modern era?

And of course, because WingNutDaily says it was used to "tie up all the loose ends," as it were (cocaine use, TANG duty, Mexican abortions, etc.), that's the end of the story for you?

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go cobble together the craziest story about Obama ever conceived -- complete with PDFs! -- 'cause some people truly deserve to be separated from their money.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 20, 2011 10:00 AM | Report abuse

docwhocuts, the problem of course is that the States most likely to disallow his name on their 2012 ballots are Stares he already lost in 2008. New York is going to put his name on the ballot even if it were proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Obama was born in Kenya.

Posted by: clawrence12 | February 20, 2011 10:02 AM | Report abuse

If you, sir/madam, still believe that the President a) was not born in the USA and/or b) Is not a Christian, then you, sir/madam:

1) Can't read, or
2) Can't understand what you read, or
3) Think anyone with a 'funny-sounding' name can't be 'American' or 'Christian', or
4) Are just plain stupid, or
5) All of the above.

The birther dispute/debate is probably the most convincing argument for the President's proposals to improve education in this country.

Posted by: getagrip1 | February 20, 2011 10:03 AM | Report abuse

dear jprestonian:

yes, 2million to do nothing but hide a story is a monstrous, gigantic departure from the standard.

clintoon spent about as much defending himself...... he was impeached, though, right?

otherwise, you could have found your answers easily in the google era.

You must be trying to distract from the actual issue.

Posted by: docwhocuts | February 20, 2011 10:04 AM | Report abuse

Unhappy Birthers to you;

Unhappy Birthers to you;

Unhappy Birthers dear Karl;

Unhappy Birthers to you.

Birthers; stand up for the truth. Demand that the 2012 Republican Convention include a birth certificate plank.

You are all Great Americans.

Posted by: Liam-still | February 20, 2011 10:04 AM | Report abuse

John Birch Society all over again. We always have had and always will have kooks out there. Too bad there are so many today, but -- what's the alternative? They would just as soon kill us, but we are less comfortable with the idea of killing them. Deaf ears and good works are probably the only countermeasure, while they stew in their own juices. Hope for the best, America, and work for it. Good luck is no accident. We get what we deserve. So be it.

Posted by: frodot | February 20, 2011 10:05 AM | Report abuse

dear clawrence:

29 states are trying to keep obama off the ballot.

He needs 5 of those 29 to have a statistical chance.

Posted by: docwhocuts | February 20, 2011 10:06 AM | Report abuse

dear frodot:

problem with your claim.

About 1/4 of the US voters are "birthers".

not a fringe theory.

telling me about how inappropriate the comparison is, only makes you appear uneducated.

Posted by: docwhocuts | February 20, 2011 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Frankly, the thought of The Speaker of the House being two breaths away from being President makes me a lot nervous.

Posted by: bigmac1810 | February 20, 2011 10:11 AM | Report abuse

dear bigmac:

really?

my 17 year old could do a better job than obama.

absolutely could do better.

has firmer econ background, knows calculus, student leader, SPL in the scouts.

you know.... actual leadership experience.

crushes obama by measures of intelligence.

Posted by: docwhocuts | February 20, 2011 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Bo Obama crushes George W. Bush "by measures of intelligence".

Posted by: Liam-still | February 20, 2011 10:32 AM | Report abuse

docwhocuts, as you know, we don't elect the President in this country based on statistics or popular vote. If ANY State that Obama won in 2008 passes a law requiring actual proof of birth, he will simply send them the Hawaii short form. I'm more interested in getting actual investigative journalists and document experts in to see the original vital records that the former State Director of Health says still exist.

Posted by: clawrence12 | February 20, 2011 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Dear liam:

mensa estimates bush's IQ at around 130.... he scored 135 on military asvab.

mensa estimates obama's IQ at 110.

but, go on, continues your delusion.

99% of US voters thought kerry smarter than bush. bush outscored him on exact same copy of military asvab, and same testing cycle on the SAT.

Posted by: docwhocuts | February 20, 2011 10:36 AM | Report abuse

dear clawrence:

just look at the laws being drafted:

they all require:

doctor's name
doctor's signature
time not just date
list of witnesses

short form will not cut it.

Posted by: docwhocuts | February 20, 2011 10:40 AM | Report abuse

""yes, 2million to do nothing but hide a story""

I missed the evidence that it was used for that purpose.

A WND story **claiming** such is not, in any way, evidence. Even if they have a ledger entry for $2M paid to a law firm. Law firms do a lot of things.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 20, 2011 11:08 AM | Report abuse

""just look at the laws being drafted:""

I can assume you'll also not be interested in the wager I proposed on Saturday (like the first person who came here with this game-changer of an idea)?
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 20, 2011 11:12 AM | Report abuse

""otherwise, you could have found your answers easily in the google era.""

I wasn't looking for any answers -- you were trying to convince me of the validity of a claim, whereas I was trying to introduce you to some critical-thinking skills by way of asking some simple questions before believing what you want to believe. Occam's razor-type stuff, such as, "Do Presidential campaigns often spend $2M on legal work?" and "Do law firms do more than just cover up people's nefarious past deeds?"

One person on this thread was convinced that something shady was up because some lady claims to have parts of Obama's mother's passport records (PDFs and everything, whoo!). Turns out that's pretty unlikely, as the State Department doesn't give out citizens' passport records to just anyone who asks for it. So... ask the simple questions first -- in that case, "Does it make sense that I could FOIA any other citizen's passport records?" No, it doesn't.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 20, 2011 11:25 AM | Report abuse

" According to Rove, the White House wants Republicans to continue raising doubts about Obama's citizenship in order to make the GOP look kooky"

What do you mean make the GOP LOOK kooky? The GOP has been certifiable for quite some time.

Posted by: HeddWyn | February 20, 2011 12:47 PM | Report abuse

So all you clowns that throw the "Birther " name around, I would suppose the Federal and State governments are the biggest birthers of all. Short form birth certificate doesn't cut it with them. Really what I would like to see and you Lib's should to is his college transcripts.
-------------------------------------
And I'd like to see Sarah Palin's transcript proving she did graduate.

Short form - long form - I've never heard so much gibberish in my life. You do know you birthers sound just plain crazy, don't you?

Posted by: MNUSA | February 20, 2011 3:17 PM | Report abuse

MNUSA, what does Sarah Palin have to do with this thread topic?!

Posted by: clawrence12 | February 20, 2011 3:26 PM | Report abuse

rove may hve a point, the white house may have more important issues to attend besides making the repugs look stupider than we all know they are.but i love to hear every loony thing that pops out of their mouths.the illegimate grandmother just said newborns should not be breastfed but should drink milk from the grocery store.folks we can't make this stuff up.
to the birthers and baggers your theories did not work in 2008, good luck with them in 2012.
to jennofark and the others don't waste your energy trying to put sense in their little pea brain, they are the best thing the dems could wish for.
b&b keep up it going.

Posted by: ninnafaye | February 20, 2011 3:36 PM | Report abuse

sorry birthers and baggers meant to say keep it going . lastly let's keep an eye on the career and life of jeff flake. the repugs punish the dissenters to their agenda.
flake, if we hear you apologize for speaking common sense, we will know where it really came from.

Posted by: ninnafaye | February 20, 2011 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Ok, so with the ship going down and more senators bailing you pick this issue because you think it is so silly.
Well just suppose the SCOTUS does decide to hear this, and finds he wasn't born here.
All the legislation is gone (and what about presidental appointments???)
Just how tin foil will that be.
Meanwhile just keep saying "starving children", mean-spirited, hateful and reassuring yourselves that this will play out like 1995, after all the media hasn't changed at all since then right?
LOL!

Posted by: Saladin3 | February 20, 2011 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Why do Rove, Limbaugh, and Armey have such bulbous heads? Discuss amongst yourselves.

Posted by: MikeV2 | February 20, 2011 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Obama will be on the ballot in every state for the 2012 election, and there's NOTHING the blithering teabagger birthers can do about it except continue with their whining, screeching and off-key caterwauling.

Posted by: kingcranky | February 20, 2011 4:37 PM | Report abuse

The new governor of Hawaii was going to end the blather by producing Obama's birth certificate...then porr Neal found it did not exist. Impeach Obama.

Posted by: JCM-51 | February 20, 2011 5:06 PM | Report abuse

"We need the leaders of our party to say, 'Look, stop falling into the trap of the White House and focus on the real issues,'" he said.

~~~~

I thought Palin stated the above. Is she now Rove's clone, or is Rove her clone.

Either way, they are both made from the same mold.

Right-Wing Kooks.

Posted by: lcarter0311 | February 20, 2011 5:29 PM | Report abuse

"Well just suppose the SCOTUS does decide to hear this, and finds he wasn't born here.
All the legislation is gone (and what about presidental appointments???)
Just how tin foil will that be.
Meanwhile just keep saying "starving children", mean-spirited, hateful and reassuring yourselves that this will play out like 1995, after all the media hasn't changed at all since then right?
LOL!
Posted by: Saladin3 | February 20, 2011 4:20 PM"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories

Here's an interesting list of dates-(with citations/footnotes from the Wiki article in parentheses, to make checking out this information that much easier)-care to guess what they all have in common?

12-10-08 (149)

12-17-08 (146)

1-12-09 (150)

1-21-09 (150)

11-29-10 (155)

1-10-11 (188)

1-18-11 (166)

Those are all the dates the US Supreme Court, or individual justices who were petitioned, like Scalia and Kennedy, refused to hear any kind of case involving this birther claptrap and easily-debunked drivel.

Gosh, Hillary Clinton, John McCain and Sarah Palin didn't make an issue of this claim before or during the 2008 Presidential primaries or election, nor did a single Republican Senator object when certifying Obama's election win, nor did a very Conservative US Supreme Court either hear any claims nor did it strike down the election results.

Who knew Hillary, McCain, Palin, every Republican Senator and the US Supreme Court's rightwing majority were all in on this nefarious plot to install a usurper in the Presidency?

LOL indeed!

Posted by: kingcranky | February 20, 2011 5:52 PM | Report abuse

When will people get a clue? This is a message for the flat-earthers, the "obama is a muslim" ites, not for the general population. People like rove and limbaugh coulter etc. say this stuff to attract the nuts of the electorate.

The "nut" population is actually the fastest growing part of the republican base.

Posted by: tafffy | February 20, 2011 6:25 PM | Report abuse

Besides, the Obamacrats pander to kooky parts of their electorate like homosexuals, outlaw "immigrants", and all of the other liberal, fringe groups that hate Republicans.

---------

The "head" of your party at the time was gay.

Posted by: vigor | February 20, 2011 6:54 PM | Report abuse

Occam's razor says that the simplest explanation is most likely the correct explanation. It is most likely that Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii in August 4, 1961. That is what his state issued birth certificate states and it is consistent with two newspapers from August 1961 which list the same date and location for his birth. Neither Obama's parents nor his maternal grandparents are alive, so they cannot testify as to the date and place of his birth. We should note, though, that Obama has received at least three US passports, dating back to the Nixon administration, all indicating the same birth date and birth place. We should also note that no one has produced a single scrap of paper predating Obama's presidential run that lists any birth date or birth place other than Hawaii in August 1961.

It is, of course, possible that Stanley Ann Dunham, while nine months pregnant, traveled by plane to another country rather than have her baby in the town where her parents and her husband were residing at the time. It is also possible that Malcolm X or some other person is Barack Obama's true bio father. But these things are "possible" in the same sense that it is possible that Elvis is still alive, running the grill at the diner Tupack Shakur owns, Jim Morrison having dibs on fries.

Obama has produced a birth certificate issued by the state of Hawaii. There is another record of his birth in the form of a newspaper birth announcement, which, in federal court, is admissible to prove the fact. In contrast, not a single document exists anywhere that casts doubt on that fact.

Only birthers deem a Certification of Live Birth as being something different than a "birth certificate." Birthers demand a "long form birth certificate" -- a phase never used until Obama came along -- but production of one would no more satisfy them than the two newspaper birth announcements satisfied them. They are delusional, in their own world, and operating under their own rules of reality. Obama can never prove to them that he is a citizen, so there is no need to even try.

Posted by: B-Rob | February 20, 2011 7:24 PM | Report abuse

that black dude, he from kenya. he a arab muslum. the worst kind.

Posted by: joeblow111 | February 20, 2011 8:07 PM | Report abuse

Those crazy birthers! They're all a bunch of knuckle dragging tea baggers! Obsessed with the lunatic notion that our President Obama was born in Kenya or Indonesia or somewhere else outside of the United States. That's why only a fool would ever vote Republican. They're all a bunch of deranged idiot birthers.

This is the party line.

The narrative that's being pushed by this Washington Post story, among many other articles and columns and blogs.

The smokescreen that Barack Obama and his handlers have been laying since 2008.

They desperately need to counter the growing international awareness of the fact that astute observers consider to be Obama's Achilles Heel.

Virtually the entire paper trail of Barack Obama's existence from birth to the White House, practically every original record and document from his personal history, has never been released or allowed to be subjected to any sort of scrutiny, despite several years of repeated requests for disclosure by numerous individuals and non-traditional media organizations.

Birthers and birth certificates?

Merely a conveniently useful distraction from the astounding unprecedented totality of secrecy that guards the truth about the man.

The smart money has always maintained that Barack Obama was born somewhere in Hawaii.

Whether his biological father was the late Kenyan Barack Obama "Sr." and his birth mother the late Stanley Ann Dunham is quite another matter.

Widespread and growing speculation maintains that it's not the current president's place of birth that prevents the infamous original typewritten long form birth certificate from surfacing, but rather the identity of both of his parents.

That there actually has never been an original typewritten long form birth certificate.

Want to explore a bit further, perhaps learn some things that you didn't know about #44?

There are plenty of sources out that are easily found.

Here's one to begin your education.

cashill.com

Posted by: FlashHarry | February 20, 2011 9:02 PM | Report abuse

""That there actually has never been an original typewritten long form birth certificate.""

Like there never was for most Americans born in the early 1960s. We got that. It's a serious controversy.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 20, 2011 9:14 PM | Report abuse

"RE: kingcranky
You may not "dislike" Obama, but it's obvious you're less than fond of proper grammar and logical coherence."

If you are going to refute my argument, please stick to the topic instead of looking like an idiot by criticizing my grammar. Seriously it makes you look a retard.

Posted by: lockdeltz | February 20, 2011 9:59 PM | Report abuse

I'd say believing on faith that the U.S. State Department just hands out passport records to anyone asking would be more indicative of serious mental disability than simple misuse of grammar.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 20, 2011 10:22 PM | Report abuse

I'd say believing on faith that the U.S. State Department just hands out passport records to anyone asking would be more indicative of serious mental disability than simple misuse of grammar.

Yet here you are arguing with the birthers. What does that make you? You don't know what a mental disability, but you might be mentally ill.

Posted by: lockdeltz | February 20, 2011 10:41 PM | Report abuse

""Yet here you are arguing with the birthers. What does that make you?""

Endlessly entertained, to be perfectly honest.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 20, 2011 10:43 PM | Report abuse

Oh and another thing kindumbass and jprestonian. What is stored in the HI DOH vault are long-form birth certificates at least 75 years old, and foreign birth certificates. There is a possibility that Hawaii has Obama's Kenyan birth certificate. Of course I don't know for sure until Obama discloses his records. That's all the "birthers" are asking for, more documentation to prove that he is born in Hawaii. I think that's a fair enough request, yet Obama refuses to release any records to back up his claim that he is an eligible president.

Posted by: lockdeltz | February 20, 2011 10:45 PM | Report abuse

""What is stored in the HI DOH vault are long-form birth certificates at least 75 years old, and foreign birth certificates.""

They also have a pony in that vault for every child born in the state, too. Look, right there! It was typed on the Internet, so you know it is true!

I'm beginning to realize that you will believe anything that fits your preconceived perceptions, which is why I am going to start a web site with the most outrageous BS ever imagined (all about Democrats, of course), and watch the money pour in from like minds.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 20, 2011 10:57 PM | Report abuse

... call it "the gullibility tax." Purely voluntary, and guaranteed to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 20, 2011 11:05 PM | Report abuse

For about 10% of the US population, there isn't an official document in the entire universe that could authorize a black man to be their president.

Posted by: Abe-Froman | February 20, 2011 11:36 PM | Report abuse

"It's also worth noting that three Republican congressional leaders recently gave the same exact answer to questions about the President's faith and citizenship:"

I've always suspected that the day begins for Republican leaders with a conference call with Frank Luntz and Karl Rove, during which the message for the day is laid out. These guys are all reading from the same script.

Posted by: rhallnj | February 21, 2011 7:11 AM | Report abuse

lockdeltz, see what I told you. Don't worry about dealing with them directly. Just post the truth and let it be.

Posted by: clawrence12 | February 21, 2011 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Republicans don't have a problem with "birthers". Barry Soetoro has an eligibility problem from proofers. Hey, does anybody at WaPo know the difference between being a citizen and being a natural born citizen as required by the constitution for presidential eligibility?
Does Wapo have anybody left there capable of doing some "deep backround research" to find out?

Posted by: sudmuf | February 21, 2011 10:48 AM | Report abuse

""Republicans don't have a problem with "birthers". Barry Soetoro has an eligibility problem from proofers.""

... which of course is why we haven't had a president for over two years, sillies.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 21, 2011 11:16 AM | Report abuse

"RE: kingcranky
You may not "dislike" Obama, but it's obvious you're less than fond of proper grammar and logical coherence."

"If you are going to refute my argument, please stick to the topic instead of looking like an idiot by criticizing my grammar. Seriously it makes you look a retard.

"Posted by: lockdeltz | February 20, 2011 9:59 PM"

"Retard"?

Let me guess, you're a Palin fan, which means you just slammed Trig with the use of such a derogatory term.

Anyways, it's obvious you took my comments to heart, seeing as how you apparently checked your spelling and grammar usage this time around.

Don't blame me for your laziness in checking spelling and grammar usage, because if you can't even get those right, or at least keep the mistakes to a minimum, then your effort, laughable as it was, should be mocked.

But keep on reaching for the stars, you may actually succeed in spite of yourself.

Posted by: kingcranky | February 21, 2011 7:38 PM | Report abuse

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