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Posted at 1:34 PM ET, 02/24/2011

Deep thought

By Greg Sargent

It's interesting to imagine what the reaction would be like if a Democratic governor were caught on tape joking about the baseball bat in his office after a fake Richard Trumka suggested using a bat on Republicans, telling the Trumka stand-in that he'd "thought about" planting troublemakers among Tea Party protestors, and responding with obsequious praise after the fake union boss called on him to "crush these bastards."

By Greg Sargent  | February 24, 2011; 1:34 PM ET
Categories:  Labor  
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Next: No labor officials on Sunday shows this weekend?

Comments

Flip the names and party affiliations and multiply the decibel level by 10.

On another note:

Is this article from today's Washington Post about the original budget bill containing the organizing restrictions, or about a separate stand alone bill that can be brought up without the budgetary quorum requirements? I can't tell from the information provided. I had thought the original budget bill had already passed the lower house.

"Wisconsin assembly agrees to union bill vote, as troopers seek Democratic senators"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/24/AR2011022402083.html?hpid=topnews

Posted by: jnc4p | February 24, 2011 1:45 PM | Report abuse

To be fair, I think that deep thought was expressed by several of your commenters on the last thread -- one, verbatim, even.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 24, 2011 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Or a Democratic governor caught giving a full rundown to a fake Soros.

Posted by: Justwondering14 | February 24, 2011 1:48 PM | Report abuse

jnc4p, I believe it's the same bill, but they still need the Dem Senators to return to get it passed...

Posted by: Greg Sargent | February 24, 2011 1:49 PM | Report abuse

The wingnuts and pundits both would be having palpitations and it would wall to wall coverage.

Before I die I hope to understand this double standard. My theory of it is:

a) Rich bastards own the media, reporters must go easy on them to advance their career.

b) People expect the righties to say this kind of crazy stuff.

Posted by: ANDYO1 | February 24, 2011 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Greg, it is the same bill, and it ain't goin' nowhere...

Posted by: suekzoo1 | February 24, 2011 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Not to question the depth of the thinking but . . . didn't a lot of people bring this up in the two previous threads? And elsewhere?

Isn't this the most common reaction to any significant bad behavior, or ugly revelation, regarding any politician?

"Wow, can you just imagine if a Liberal/Conservative/Democrat/Republican got caught doing that? He wouldn't just get a pass!"

The assertion of a deep, even universal, double-standard when it comes what liberals get away with (according to conservatives) or what conservatives get away with (according to liberals) has been ongoing for the last 20 years. And probably longer.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | February 24, 2011 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Kevin, that's true, but only one side is right.

Posted by: Greg Sargent | February 24, 2011 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Greg,

Forget about the baseball bat part.

Focus on the fact that when he was offered a trip to to California, for him and his family, and they would be shown a good time, Walker said: "that would be great".

Posted by: Liam-still | February 24, 2011 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Solidarity rallies this Saturday across the country can be found here:

http://pol.moveon.org/event/events/index.html?rc=rsad_seiu&action_id=238&search_distance=40

Posted by: suekzoo1 | February 24, 2011 1:57 PM | Report abuse

"Kevin, that's true, but only one side is right."

Sweeet.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 24, 2011 2:00 PM | Report abuse

@greg: "Kevin, that's true, but only one side is right."

In a general sense, I think that's true (although I think the direction of the bias shifts over time, and both sides are always going to feel aggrieved, no matter what, because what constitutes objective coverage to the various factions will never align).

But the reality is, it's a really, really common what-if-scenario. Conservative pundits do it all the time. There's an entire media blog at NRO that focuses mostly on the double standard. I see lots of liberals ponder a world where one of theirs said something as crazy as those whacky right wingers. Which was my main point. :-)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | February 24, 2011 2:04 PM | Report abuse

"Kevin, that's true, but only one side is right."

Not if both sides are wrong. It's been known to happen.

Posted by: NoVAHockey | February 24, 2011 2:04 PM | Report abuse

ANDYO1 @ February 24, 2011 1:50 PM "The wingnuts and pundits both would be having palpitations and it would wall to wall coverage."

Always remember that the pundits, themselves, are paid millions every year, and have extensive interests in the media and miscellaneous publications. Consider where their personal interests lie. They bear no relationship to the journalists of even 30 years ago.

Posted by: AMviennaVA | February 24, 2011 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Imagine the coverage if a GOP congressman had admitted seeking psychiatric treatment after news broke that he had sent bizarre photos of himself in a tiger costume to staff members and taken prescription pain killers given to him by an unnamed campaign donor.

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/#ixzz1Eu9kkYCk

Posted by: sbj3 | February 24, 2011 2:06 PM | Report abuse

IDK Liam, for a Governor to suggest going after those he represents with a baseball bat to a campaign financier is kinda ruthless.

Joking or not, I'm not certain anyone wants that kind of ruthless person scheming on how to push his will on the people to crush them.

And dangit Greg you took my thought. :P

http://liberaldefenderoffreedom.blogspot.com/2011/02/just-imagine.html

But regardless, it's something I hope the Sunday shows touch on. Of course, they will be busy with guests wondering why Obama is no longer going to represent Rumsfeld and his 180 on DOMA.

Not that his change of toon on defending DOMA in the courts isn't a big deal but.

The assault on labor is of no interest to the press. Labor matters naught to the talking heads.

ThinkProgress is highlighting dozens of protests erupting across the U.S. as we speak.

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/02/24/main-street-movement-thousands/

They can't ignore it forever.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | February 24, 2011 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Could you imagine the uproar here if the the nightly newscasts and morning shows completely ignored video of a GOP state congressman exhorting tea party supporters to "get a little bloody" in the fight against Obamacare?

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/#ixzz1EuAaSFq5

Posted by: sbj3 | February 24, 2011 2:10 PM | Report abuse

@NoVAHockey: "Not if both sides are wrong. It's been known to happen. "

I like that even better. And I think both sides •are• wrong--in regards to their expectations. There was a time where it was understood that various newspapers had political affiliation, and covered everything with their biases on their sleeves. Because it's natural that people's fundamental beliefs might color their perceptions, and how they perceive and report on events.

I also see a huge bias in this attitude against new media. What Scott Walker said is exploding over the internet. If you get all your information from your local paper, then, yeah, you might have missed it. It gets coverage. Many Democrats pick it up, make the point. We might not see it on CNN, but we'll probably hear about it on the PlumLine. It's not like it's not getting out there, but if you believe that you and a few of your friends are the only people in the internet and the rest of the world gets all their news from Fox then, yes, you'd definitely obsess over the bias. ;)

Haven't seen this covered by Greg on PlumLine:

http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/23/union-thug-assaults-tabitha-hale/

Bias!!! Nothing about it on the WaPo at all! Oppression!!! Double-standard!! Condoning violence!!

Or maybe not.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | February 24, 2011 2:13 PM | Report abuse

"Algeria just lifted its "state of emergency", which has been in place for all of the past 19 years."

Posted by: shrink2 | February 24, 2011 2:14 PM | Report abuse

@Liam: ""Focus on the fact that when he was offered a trip to to California, for him and his family, and they would be shown a good time, Walker said: "that would be great".""

I think what he said was that it would be "outstanding".

"Also, after all this is over, I want to send you a suitcase full of cash. And some hookers. Is that cool with you?"

"Outstanding!"

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | February 24, 2011 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Also imagine Obama refusing to take phone calls from Republican leaders and saying point blank "I'm not negotiating".

Where is all the outrage from the villagers about Walker's lack of bipartisanship?

Posted by: schrodingerscat | February 24, 2011 2:18 PM | Report abuse

"Focus on the fact that when he was offered a trip to to California, for him and his family, and they would be shown a good time, Walker said: "that would be great"."

Lets be clear here, the fake Koch talked about a trip to Cali (not "fornia"). Maybe this moron,this poorman's Santorum, thought he was referring to Cali,
Colombia:-)

Posted by: filmnoia | February 24, 2011 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Do you hear the pathetic claims now being made by the Right Wingers:

"Both sides are wrong" Sure boys; both the mugger and those he is mugging are both wrong.

Posted by: Liam-still | February 24, 2011 2:22 PM | Report abuse

kevin: "Haven't seen this covered by Greg on PlumLine:

http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/23/union-thug-assaults-tabitha-hale/"

And you know what's not covered on that video? An assault. They never actually show the woman, nor what happened to her. Oh, sure, the camera jostles around, there are background noises, etc., but it looks like it could be entirely staged to me.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | February 24, 2011 2:24 PM | Report abuse

@schrodinger: "Where is all the outrage from the villagers about Walker's lack of bipartisanship?"

Argh! I'm outraged!

Is that enough?

I've been predicting his ultimate political demise for the past two days. Well earned, it was, I have also noted.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | February 24, 2011 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Lets be clear here, the fake Koch talked about a trip to Cali (not "fornia"). Maybe this moron,this poorman's Santorum, thought he was referring to Cali,
Colombia:-)

Posted by: filmnoia | February 24, 2011 2:19 PM

Could well be, but Walker made it very clear that he was looking forward to receiving his bribe.

Posted by: Liam-still | February 24, 2011 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Kevin_Willis: The assertion of a deep, even universal, double-standard when it comes what liberals get away with (according to conservatives) or what conservatives get away with (according to liberals) has been ongoing for the last 20 years.
--------------

The double standard is quite real. No hypotheticals are necessary. Consider how the media went nuts over the Acorn videos the fake pimp and prostitute made. Consider that when the videos were proven to have been selectively and misleadingly edited, the story was only in the liberal "blogosphere."

As a result of the negative coverage of the videos, Acorn was destroyed. But if it's up to the corporate media, Walker won't suffer many negative consequences for exposing his dishonesty and unethical conduct in his obsequious responses to the fake David Koch.

Posted by: Spacer | February 24, 2011 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Deep thought: Irony "Where is all the outrage from the villagers about Walker's lack of bipartisanship?"

========
"So, just to clarify, lawmakers who have fled the state, who are calling in to CNN from an undisclosed location with a list of demands, are complaining that the governor is hard to reach."

http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/260589/wisconsin-democrats-now-generating-121-gigawatts-irony-daily

Posted by: sbj3 | February 24, 2011 2:26 PM | Report abuse

"Focus on the fact that when he was offered a trip to to California, for him and his family, and they would be shown a good time, Walker said: "that would be great"

He should have gone. apparently Wisconsin pols are allowed to leave the state while the legislature is in session.

Posted by: NoVAHockey | February 24, 2011 2:26 PM | Report abuse

@Liam: """Both sides are wrong" Sure boys; both the mugger and those he is mugging are both wrong.""

Except your analogy is flawed. The correct analogy is that two muggers are mugging people. One mugger is mugging your neighbor, who you don't like. So that's okay--even justified, because he never returned your lawn mower. The other mugger is mugging you, which is an outrage! Unacceptable! It must stop now!

That's the analogy you're looking for. :)

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | February 24, 2011 2:27 PM | Report abuse

I'd hardly call it an "assault" to shove away an iphone that's been shoved in your face without your consent. Maybe that's why no one's "covering" it - because there's no "there" there.

Posted by: JennOfArk | February 24, 2011 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Everyone is wrong, isn't that convenient, the platonic dodge, we are all just interpreting shadows on the cave wall, no one sees reality?

I'm not buying that. That which is wrong about the right in America is in no way comparable to that about which the left is wrong.

Now as you know, I don't fight and I don't want you guys to feel insulted, I agree with lots of what you say and I value your thoughts on any topic. The which-side-is-worse hypocrite arguments is as boring as the people on post it boards who get their kicks calling other posters dirty words. But, both sides are __not__ equally wrong. The politics of the right are a clear and present danger to this country, I believe that, and also, that the politics of the left are weak, bumptious and while not altogether harmless, the risk of America becoming a socialist workers paradise seems pretty funny actually.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 24, 2011 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Could well be, but Walker made it very clear that he was looking forward to receiving his bribe.
--------------------------------------------------------------
As I remember the tape, Walker said "Outstanding".

Even if Walker didn't really mean it, one thing is clear: Walker didn't want Mr. Koch to feel rejected. He didn't educate the Great Man of the GOP that would be considered a bribe, illegal or unethical. The true mark of a toady--agree enthusiastically with everything The Boss suggests.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | February 24, 2011 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Walker is mugging the Teachers in order to steal their collective bargaining rights.

Our Resident Right Wingers are outraged that School Teachers are mugging their beloved Hosni Walker in such a manner.

Posted by: Liam-still | February 24, 2011 2:30 PM | Report abuse

I dunno...I think the most important thing about the Walker PWN3D phone call is what he admits openly - that the union-busting provision was "a bomb" that Walker and Republicans dropped on an unsuspecting citizenry - unsuspecting because, contrary to Walker's claims, he never once campaigned on the idea of stripping collective bargaining rights. On the call, he admits it. Important only because of the continuing rightwing and Walker claim that Walker is only doing what "the majority ELECTED HIM to do." Unlike, say, the majority who elected Obama to do healthcare reform after he had said day after day for a year on the campaign trail that reforming health care was one of his top priorities.

Just more Republican lying and hypocrisy. Nothing to see here, move along...

Posted by: JennOfArk | February 24, 2011 2:31 PM | Report abuse

@Jenn: ""I'd hardly call it an "assault" to shove away an iphone that's been shoved in your face without your consent. Maybe that's why no one's "covering" it - because there's no "there" there.""

Yes, but •what if• it had been a union member some Republican had been shoving like that? Oh, then, what would the reaction have been??!

Also, Walker, poor fellow, only made a little jokey about his baseball bat. This woman was actually pushed. Sort of. Anyway, how are we supposed to maintain our sense of outrage if we don't insist that we ware all perpetual victims, and everybody is perpetually victimizing us?

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | February 24, 2011 2:31 PM | Report abuse

"The true mark of a toady--agree enthusiastically with everything The Boss suggests."

Funny I just got off the phone with some new medical staph person, warned not to use boss management skills. In the medical world, toadies can be lethal. Politics, couldn't do it for a day. All I want to know are facts, facts and more facts.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 24, 2011 2:34 PM | Report abuse

@Liam: ""Our Resident Right Wingers are outraged that School Teachers are mugging their beloved Hosni Walker in such a manner.""

I think Scott Walker needs to go. I'm also actually with the school teachers, re: maintaining collective bargaining rights. Yet I'm pretty sure I qualify as a Resident Right Winger.

Just FYI.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | February 24, 2011 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Our Resident Right Wingers are outraged that School Teachers are mugging their beloved Hosni Walker in such a manner.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I don't get the impression that conservatives on this blog give a damn about Gov. Walker. Their reaction is just that--reactionary and automatic and well rehearsed.

Walker is just the latest enforcer who made the mistake of exposing his goon-ness.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | February 24, 2011 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Of course Hosni Walker also explained on the tape, that the only reason that he did not deploy vicious thugs, to create chaos among the protesters was because he was afraid that it might cause the voters to demand that he compromise, to put an end to the violence.

He made it very clear, to the guy he though was David Koch, that if he felt that unleashing violent thugs would benefit his efforts, he would eagerly do so.

Posted by: Liam-still | February 24, 2011 2:37 PM | Report abuse

"Deep thought: Irony"

It's ironic only if you believe that negotiations/meaningful conversations can only take place in person.

If my CT scan can be read by a radiologist in India, I'm pretty sure labor negotiations can take place over that marvel of 18th century technology - the telephone.

Posted by: schrodingerscat | February 24, 2011 2:38 PM | Report abuse

"Anyway, how are we supposed to maintain our sense of outrage if we don't insist that we ware all perpetual victims, and everybody is perpetually victimizing us?"

I take it you don't commute.

Posted by: JennOfArk | February 24, 2011 2:38 PM | Report abuse

@12Bar: "I don't get the impression that conservatives on this blog give a damn about Gov. Walker. Their reaction is just that--reactionary and automatic and well rehearsed."

Dammit, when were rehearsals? Nobody tells me anything.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | February 24, 2011 2:38 PM | Report abuse

@12bar: "I don't get the impression that conservatives on this blog give a damn about Gov. Walker."

Well you are correct about that - never even heard of the guy before all of this.

But many of us *are* concerned about public employee union benefits and pensions and their impact on state budgets.

Posted by: sbj3 | February 24, 2011 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Dammit, when were rehearsals? Nobody tells me anything.
-------------------------------------------------
Not you Kevin. You are not defending this indefensible Governor. Thank God that some people have the eyes to see and the ears to hear.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | February 24, 2011 2:40 PM | Report abuse

All, no labor officials appearing on Sunday shows this weekend:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/02/no_labor_officials_on_sunday_s.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | February 24, 2011 2:40 PM | Report abuse

@JeenOfArk: "I take it you don't commute."

I drive. A fair piece. And the gas prices! Don't get me started . . .

It's time for light rail. Right between my house and work!

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | February 24, 2011 2:42 PM | Report abuse

The giveaway that the assault was faked? The "W" carved in her face was BACKWARDS.

:lol:
.

Posted by: jprestonian | February 24, 2011 2:44 PM | Report abuse

"Deep thought: Irony"

It's ironic only if you believe that negotiations/meaningful conversations can only take place in person.

If my CT scan can be read by a radiologist in India, I'm pretty sure labor negotiations can take place over that marvel of 18th century technology - the telephone.

Posted by: schrodingerscat | February 24, 2011 2:38 PM |

.............
Telephones. What are you some sort of non believer in The Founding Fathers Original Intent?

Horseback, Pigeons, and Smoke Signals, and Hollering Across The Holler, are all that are allowed, under the Constitution.

Posted by: Liam-still | February 24, 2011 2:45 PM | Report abuse

"18th century technology"

D'oh - that should've been 19th century.

Posted by: schrodingerscat | February 24, 2011 2:48 PM | Report abuse

@scat: "If my CT scan can be read by a radiologist in India."

Yes, what's with that? Same thing happened to me...

Posted by: sbj3 | February 24, 2011 2:51 PM | Report abuse

"Thank God that some people have the eyes to see and the ears to hear."

So insensitive, so PI. ;-}

I was just explaining to my kids this morning about Helen Keller. Remember when you were a kid and first thought about what that might be like? And to learn she was happy to boot?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12551753

btw, I think the S&P has to go to 1250, not that that matters.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 24, 2011 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Yeah the Liberal media double standard is deafening.....

Imagine if a fake run of the mill liberal went into say 5 Acorn offices, an organization the President wanted public funding for. Imagine if this fake liberal got each of them to explain how they commit mortgage fraud. Imagine what the media would say....

Oh yeah, that's right, it did happen but the media never reported it.....

Posted by: ELF2 | February 24, 2011 2:53 PM | Report abuse

@shrink2: "I was just explaining to my kids this morning about Helen Keller. Remember when you were a kid and first thought about what that might be like? And to learn she was happy to boot?"

And very pro-labor. And a socialist.

Of course, there was once a study done that indicated that quadriplegics, as a group, had a higher sense of well-being than lottery winners.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | February 24, 2011 2:55 PM | Report abuse

@ELF2: "Oh yeah, that's right, it did happen but the media never reported it....."

Actually, I'm pretty sure the media did report it. In fact, if you check, it's amazing how much people of all politic stripes say "never got reported" that most politically involved people know about, and, it turns out, it got covered, just not as much as Natalie Holloway.

Posted by: Kevin_Willis | February 24, 2011 2:59 PM | Report abuse

"Yes, what's with that? Same thing happened to me..."

Out-sourcing. Radiologists are seen by the suits as just another crafty guild to be broken. In this country, they are pricing themselves into a position where people can justify not using them. So you'll get ?? quality reading from who knows where and still pay the same ever increasing price, the industry keeps the difference. Try suing the guy in India who said your study was adequate and clean, but it wasn't.

Everyone hates health care reform (the ACA is just much more of the same, it was all the industry would allow the Ds to pass), so you will just pay and pay even as the quality deteriorates. Get rid of the ACA, same thing only worse. America has allowed its industries to regulate not only the regulators, but the voters.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 24, 2011 3:00 PM | Report abuse

My "both sides" was more directed at the end results. There's lots of areas where both sides, while in complete agreement, are wrong.

politicians acting like clowns shouldn't be surprising. and media personalities playing up the spectacle of this isn't a surprise either. Policy stopped being the focus of this once it went national and it became a circus and that's when i lost interest.

If anything, the aspect of this that is concerning is the procedural issues at state. If the minority party can just up and leave, that doesn't bode well for a functioning legislative body. How long before some GOPers figure out they can force a showdown by feeling their state? of course, being GOPers, they'd screw it up and decamp to some 5-star resort, claim hardship and lose any goodwill they had.

also -- at issue is basically a promise that the government made to it's workers. and it's trying to break it. Tell me again why I should trust the government to keep it's promises? "sure, social security will be there for you. trust us."


Posted by: NoVAHockey | February 24, 2011 3:10 PM | Report abuse

"People who live in tin houses should not throw can openers."

soupy Sales

And the liberals here probably don't realize that they actually do live in tin houses and that they are hurling can openers thoughtlessly.

the basic meme is this: Republicans = evil
Democrats = angelic goodness.

Don't you just wish that were true?

the simple fact is that the Democrat legislators in WI are little more than bought and paid for brothel workers. Follow this link to a perfect example of how deeply in the pockets of the unions the Democrats in the WI legislature actually are.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/111922624.html

It seems that the Democrats sought to approve new union contracts during the lame duck but had a couple of problems. first, the senate leader had an unexpected fit of ethics and decided to vote against the contracts. Of course, as the article points out, the less than ethical Democrats imediately drove this guy, a union brick layer btw, out of power. Democrats don't do ethics, that much is clear.

next, in order to get all the votes they needed the Democrats literaly sprung one of their members from jail.

that's right: jail. He was in jail for repeated drunk driving arrests.

so the Democrats were so obsessed with paying back the unions that they fired their own senate leader when he objected on ethical grounds, and sprung a drunk from jail because they needed his vote.

so do prattle on about that dreadful Scott Walker. It is just too funny.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | February 24, 2011 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Republican politicians ALWAYS get a pass on violent talk and actions; e.g., Obama and the Pelosi's Dems chose not to investigate Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld for torture crimes.

Posted by: dozas | February 24, 2011 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Skippy's Shrinks appear to have failed.

He is still ranting about how organized labor is bad, but Organized Oligarchs are wonderful.

Posted by: Liam-still | February 24, 2011 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Greg nails it.

It's okay if you are a Republican.

Posted by: Alex3 | February 24, 2011 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Wake up Greg the only reason its a story is because it was a Republican. Everybody knows the Democrats already do that sort of thing.

Posted by: bjeagle784 | February 24, 2011 4:27 PM | Report abuse

I watched that film of the "assault" by a "union thug" on the conservative filmmaker.

Preposterous. Why exactly does she need to stick her camera mere inches from the man's face in order to film him? All you can see is his chin the camera is so close. Does her camera not have a zoom feature?

That's clearly an attempt to provoke him. I don't know what the law says, but if pushing a camera out of your face makes one a "union thug" we've really lowered the bar on thuggery.

Even Michael Moore doesn't film hostile interviews like that.

Of course for the right wing noise machine, every member of every union is a "thug" to begin with. I won't give Drudge the clicks, but I wonder how many sirens this "story" got? 4?

Posted by: Scientician | February 24, 2011 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Greg, here's the explanation.

IOKIYAR

(it's okay if you're a republican)

Posted by: lcrider1 | February 24, 2011 6:42 PM | Report abuse

I just refinanced using "123 Mortgage Refi" and went from a 5.5/20yr to a 3.25/15yr. Monthly payments went down by about $100 but overall savings over the life of the loan are over $60,000. Definitely worth it in my opinion.

Posted by: tombarnes88 | February 25, 2011 4:54 AM | Report abuse

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