Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity
Posted at 8:40 PM ET, 03/ 9/2011

GOP's shenanigans in Wisconsin ensure the fight will only escalate

By Greg Sargent

Here's what Wisconsin Republicans accomplished tonight: In a situation where they had repeated opportunities to resolve this standoff and plausibly declare victory for themselves, they have now ensured that this battle is only going to escalate.

This evening, Wisconsin Repubicans took the drastic step of breaking up the budget repair bill and passing only a measure rolling back the collective bargaining rights of public employees. A committee removed some parts of the bill, allowing Republicans to pass it by a simple majority, without missing Dems, and it's expected to pass the Assembly tomorrow.

A lawyer told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that the move appeared to violate the state's open meetings law. One assumes this is headed for court, but let's just presume for the moment that the move will stand.

There's no quibbling with the fact that if it does stand, Walker and Republicans will have gotten their way in the short term fight. But let's recall an important fact: Republicans control the governorship and state legislature. The fact that they were forced to resort to this trick is itself a concession that they had lost the battle as they themselves had previously defined it. And in so doing, they were forced to pull a maneuver that will only lend even more energy to the drive to recall them.

This kind of conduct is exactly what recalls are for. Let's review the record. This latest move is in direct contradiction of a recent pledge by the head of Wisconsin senate Republicans not to pass the bill without Democrats present. By treating the collective bargaining piece as a non-fiscal provision, Republicans have also revealed that Walker's repeated claims that the anti-union push was all about the budget to be a complete falsehood.

But it goes far beyond this. Despite Walker's repeated claims to the contrary, it has been well-documented that during his campaign he never revealed he'd pursue the radical push to roll back bargaining rights that he sprung on unsuspecting Wisconsinites. What's more, Wisconsin unions agreed early on to the fiscal concessions Walker demanded, on the condition that he preserve their bargaining rights. He refused, on the grounds that the rollback was a fiscal issue -- which has today been revealed to be bogus. And then there's the prank Koch call, where he repeatedly laughed along as someone he took to be a major donor talked about planting troublemakers among protestors and suggested bringing a bat to his next meeting with Dems. The record here is really striking in its misconduct.

What's amazing about this latest turn of events is that Walker could have reached a deal with unions and very plausibly declared victory. He could have rightly argued that his tough stance on bargaining rights forced major fiscal concessions. Instead, he dug in, and now Republicans blindly following him have pulled a stunt that will only exacerbate grassroots anger in Wisconsin and leave national unions and liberal groups no alternative but to pour everything they have into recall drives. National Republicans can't be happy about this overreach: It has galvanized the labor movement, allowed it to restate its case to the public, given Obama an easy way to mend fences with unions, and complicated GOP outreach to blue collar whites in key swing states and districts heading into 2012.

This is exactly the sort of conduct that justifies recalls. This will only escalate from here on out.

********************************************************

UPDATE, 9:17 p.m.: David Dayen games out the specifics of where this is heading next.

By Greg Sargent  | March 9, 2011; 8:40 PM ET
Categories:  Labor  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Happy Hour Roundup
Next: The Morning Plum

Comments

Unions leaders ought to be licking their chops right now. Exactly the kind of stupid moves they needed to galvanize people for their cause.

Scott Walker is truly an arrogant idiot of the first order.

Posted by: grosmec | March 9, 2011 8:49 PM | Report abuse

but will the Dem senators now return and, by their presence, allow the budget to pass??????????????????????????????????????

Posted by: smd1234 | March 9, 2011 8:53 PM | Report abuse

Feel free to keep crowding the Capitol after tomorrow's special session ends. Please also hold your breath as you "begin counting the days remaining before Scott Walker is himself eligible for recall."

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 9, 2011 8:54 PM | Report abuse

I hope it does continue and escalate.
The nation needs a full and extended debate on public-sector unions.

Posted by: TominColorado | March 9, 2011 8:56 PM | Report abuse

Hey yo a battle is a battle but a battle's not a battle if it'sssssssssss snake doesn't rattle

Posted by: shrink2 | March 9, 2011 8:56 PM | Report abuse

Excellent rundown! But, I do believe the anger and shock that the people of Wisconsin are dealing with regarding this underhanded, and reported Illegal conference and passing of the bill will also escalate the General Strike of the people. How long will it take and to what end will people have to go to get these government representatives to understand, THE WORK FOR THE PEOPLE, and clearly, the majority has been speaking loud and clear.

Posted by: TessTy | March 9, 2011 8:57 PM | Report abuse

shrink-
huh?
''''''''''''''
Hey yo a battle is a battle but a battle's not a battle if it'sssssssssss snake doesn't rattle

Posted by: shrink2 | March 9, 2011 8:56 PM

Posted by: smd1234 | March 9, 2011 9:00 PM | Report abuse

What happened to Kathleen Parker? Who is Edye? CNN has spoken to at least one Dem State Senator who is returning.

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 9, 2011 9:00 PM | Report abuse

I'm going to repost what I just put on the last thread because I don't think we can just look at Walker and Wisconsin but what the national Republican strategy may be:

Howard Fineman made a very interesting assessment on Lawrence O'Donnell. He said that the people running national Republican strategy--and he listed Rick Perry, Karl Rove, the Koch brothers, and Haley Barbour--are orchestrating these Wisconsin moves to try to provoke an over-reaction from Dems and labor (and Madison students) that will fit the narrative they're trying to create that Obama and liberals are really 60's-style radicals. He said this is all about 2012.

That list of five is interesting. It has certainly seemed that there's a unified national Republican strategy to try to take advantage of the fact there are so many Republican governors and legislatures after the stealth attack that elected them in 2010.

Posted by: AllButCertain | March 9, 2011 9:01 PM | Report abuse

Walker just gave cover to the now returning Dems, the return (which was beginning to seem more likely by the day) is now very arguably an act of local patriotism which could have otherwise been played as capitulation.

Posted by: p-40 | March 9, 2011 9:02 PM | Report abuse

Here's a handy comparison...

Virginia

•Collective bargaining in state and local government banned by a 1993 statute signed into law by Democratic Governor Douglas Wilder
•State debt as a share of income: 2.1%
•State unfunded pension obligations as a share of GDP: 17%
•Score on quality of state government management: A-
•Score on Pew’s subcategory for “people” management: A


Wisconsin

•Collective bargaining (monopoly unionism) in place for government workers, with about 52 percent of state/local workers in unions
•State debt as a share of income: 4.6%
•State unfunded pension obligations as a share of GDP: 32%
•Score on quality of state government management: B-
•Score on Pew’s subcategory for “people” management: B-

So when do the marches and riots start in Richmond, Virginia?

Posted by: TominColorado | March 9, 2011 9:02 PM | Report abuse

Sean Penn was great as a condemned man in "Dead Man Walking", but Scott Walker has topped that performance.
Prediction -
Scott Walker will not be around to head the WI delegation at the GOP convention next summer. He's toast - history, as well as some of his GOP colleagues.

Posted by: filmnoia | March 9, 2011 9:03 PM | Report abuse

And Scott Walker is officially Marshall Applewhite to the Wisconsin GOP's Heaven's Gate.

Posted by: holyhandgrenaid | March 9, 2011 9:04 PM | Report abuse

Wow everybody! Very exciting!

I'm with others about the Democratic Senators! Don't return!

See: Ackbar, Admiral.

You're accomplishing great things everybody! Keep up the great work!

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 9, 2011 9:04 PM | Report abuse

Rachel Maddow is having a cow.

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 9, 2011 9:04 PM | Report abuse

LOL-

ya "things happened in my life that were not appropriate"

Things just happen.

If you are a hypocrite like Newt.
''''''''''''''

Newt Gingrich: There’s no question at times of my life, partially driven by how passionately I felt about this country, that I worked far too hard and things happened in my life that were not appropriate. And what I can tell you is that when I did things that were wrong, I wasn’t trapped in situation ethics, I was doing things that were wrong, and yet, I was doing them. I found that I felt compelled to seek God’s forgiveness. Not God’s understanding, but God’s forgiveness. I do believe in a forgiving God. And I think most people, deep down in their hearts hope there’s a forgiving God.

Somebody once said that when we’re young, we seek justice, but as we get older, we seek mercy. There’s something to that, I think. I feel that I’m now 67 I’m a grandfather. I have two wonderful grandchildren. I have two wonderful daughters and two great sons-in-law. Callista and I have a great marriage. I think that I’ve learned an immense amount.

And I do feel, in that sense, that God has given me, has blessed me with an opportunity as a person. Forget about all this political stuff. As a person, I’ve had the opportunity to have a wonderful life, to find myself now, truly enjoying the depths of my life in ways that I never dreamed it was possible to have a life that was that nice.

http://blogs.cbn.com/thebrodyfile/archive/2011/03/08/newt-gingrich-tells-brody-file-he-felt-compelled-to-seek.aspx

Posted by: smd1234 | March 9, 2011 9:04 PM | Report abuse

smd1234

That is a line from a musical ensemble comprised of Haitian refugees. Translating into English it means, fighting happens and in every fight, the fight becomes real when one of the parties to the fight signifies serious, if not lethal intent.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 9, 2011 9:05 PM | Report abuse

"[Wisconsin] State unfunded pension obligations as a share of GDP: 32%

Tom are all your statistics from Karl Rove's sourcebook? Wisconsin's pension system is fully funded.

Posted by: AllButCertain | March 9, 2011 9:07 PM | Report abuse

Since Walker and his GOP mates could have done this any time in the last three weeks, what can be made of the timing? Obviously, all their predictions that the Democrats were cracking and would be back any minute were false. I'm assuming that the nuclear option was Plan B.

Why did the WI GOP pick today to execute the nuclear option? Any ideas?

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | March 9, 2011 9:08 PM | Report abuse

"WI Senate GOP Leader Admits On-Air That His Goal Is To Defund Labor Unions, Hurt Obama's Reelection Chances"

In an interview with Fox News’ Megyn Kelly moments ago, State Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-WI), one of Walker’s closest allies in the legislature, confirmed the true political motive of Walker’s anti-union push. Fitzgerald explained that “this battle” is about eliminating unions so that “the money is not there” for the labor movement. Specifically, he said that the destruction of unions will make it “much more difficult” for President Obama to win reelection in Wisconsin:
FITZGERALD: Well if they flip the state senate, which is obviously their goal with eight recalls going on right now, they can take control of the labor unions. If we win this battle, and the money is not there under the auspices of the unions, certainly what you’re going to find is President Obama is going to have a much difficult, much more difficult time getting elected and winning the state of Wisconsin.

i do not believe for one minute that this move has anything whatsoever to do with a coordinated republican attack - it is all and only about the personal ambitions of one, scott walker. period. and the fitzgerald brothers who are his total lapdogs and playmates.

Posted by: ebproducer | March 9, 2011 9:09 PM | Report abuse

TominColorado-
please show the Texas info

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Here's a handy comparison...

Virginia

•Collective bargaining in state and local government banned by a 1993 statute signed into law by Democratic Governor Douglas Wilder
•State debt as a share of income: 2.1%
•State unfunded pension obligations as a share of GDP: 17%
•Score on quality of state government management: A-
•Score on Pew’s subcategory for “people” management: A


Wisconsin

•Collective bargaining (monopoly unionism) in place for government workers, with about 52 percent of state/local workers in unions
•State debt as a share of income: 4.6%
•State unfunded pension obligations as a share of GDP: 32%
•Score on quality of state government management: B-
•Score on Pew’s subcategory for “people” management: B-

So when do the marches and riots start in Richmond, Virginia?

Posted by: TominColorado | March 9, 2011 9:02 PM

Posted by: smd1234 | March 9, 2011 9:09 PM | Report abuse

So how does it feel to have something you don't agree with rammed down your throat through the use of obscure rules? I remember that feeling when Obamacare was rammed through using Reconciliation. Only difference? I don't recall those who opposed Obamacare in Congress running away to hide in another state like a spoiled child who doesn't get what they want. Have a good evening, folks. You can dish it out but you can't take it.

Posted by: donchew1 | March 9, 2011 9:12 PM | Report abuse

Walker has been doing this his entire career and each time he gets elected with larger margins than before ... let's face it he's not getting recalled ... if the state is solvent with higher unemployment he's a shoo in ... if not he will pay the consequences ... Scott Walker is betting on himself and the track record shows he is very sucessful at doing so ... face it plum liners ... you were outsmarted ...

Posted by: cunn9305 | March 9, 2011 9:12 PM | Report abuse

What scum.

He just stole food off the table of teachers to give to Koch.

Congratulations lazy Dem voters and those thinking they were teaching Obama a lesson by not voting.

The crazies are now in charge.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | March 9, 2011 9:13 PM | Report abuse

Public Sector Pension Deficits data from here:

http://www.aei.org/docLib/2010RPOno1g.pdf

Barcharts on p. 6, and foonotes

Posted by: TominColorado | March 9, 2011 9:15 PM | Report abuse

Oh no, here comes Micheal Moore on Rachel Maddow!

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 9, 2011 9:16 PM | Report abuse

"The crazies are now in charge."

What happened? Did George Bush become President?
Did JFK get shot?

Get a grip.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 9, 2011 9:18 PM | Report abuse

I don't know how this is going to play out, but at a minimum, this action violated the Wisconsin open meeting law, which has been in place for a very long time and is carefully observed.

Posted by: AllButCertain | March 9, 2011 9:18 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, ABC, the WI pension fund is sold:


"Wisconsin is certainly facing some significant budget challenges but its public worker pension system isn't one of them.

With current assets of nearly $80 billion, the Wisconsin Retirement System (WRS) is the ninth-largest public pension fund in the U.S. and by all accounts one of the most solvent.
Wisconsin was ranked a "solid performer" last year by the Pew Center on the States and is one of just four states, with Florida, New York and Washington, whose pensions are considered fully funded at over 95 percent. The means they've been putting enough money away to cover predicted future payouts to retirees."

http://host.madison.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_811ac9e0-4515-11e0-bd7e-001cc4c03286.html

Posted by: suekzoo1 | March 9, 2011 9:19 PM | Report abuse

I know how this is going to play out,
thanks for asking.

The country may or may not take the public union debate seriously otherwise, nothing will happen, except possibly in Wisconsin, where the people voted for Republicans.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 9, 2011 9:22 PM | Report abuse

AllButCertain-

What the geniuses at Repub think tanks (funded by Koch and other ideologues) do all day is formulate these grand schemes and "message-framing"....that is, when they're not watching porn featuring legislative page look-a-likes.

The "message-framing" part is evident when Repub robots like Ron Christie go on TV and say the Pres has not led on the budget, where we have all these programs "we cannot afford." But he never says the reason for our fiscal situation is b/c tax revenues are at historically low levels due to rate reductions for the wealthy, and the recession.

''''''''''''''''
I'm going to repost what I just put on the last thread because I don't think we can just look at Walker and Wisconsin but what the national Republican strategy may be:

Howard Fineman made a very interesting assessment on Lawrence O'Donnell. He said that the people running national Republican strategy--and he listed Rick Perry, Karl Rove, the Koch brothers, and Haley Barbour--are orchestrating these Wisconsin moves to try to provoke an over-reaction from Dems and labor (and Madison students) that will fit the narrative they're trying to create that Obama and liberals are really 60's-style radicals. He said this is all about 2012.

That list of five is interesting. It has certainly seemed that there's a unified national Republican strategy to try to take advantage of the fact there are so many Republican governors and legislatures after the stealth attack that elected them in 2010.

Posted by: AllButCertain | March 9, 2011 9:01 PM

Posted by: smd1234 | March 9, 2011 9:22 PM | Report abuse

If I were running the unions, tomorrow we'd see word go out about starting a general strike right away. Every eligible union member in WI, public or private, should spend the next week doing nothing but canvasing for recall signatures.

After this, if you got all of them out on the streets, we'd see the signatures reached for recall elections against all 8 GOPers within a week. I'd also suggest "pledge cards" for signatures to recall Gov. Walker come November.

@Greg

Two things I want to know:

1) If this bill is illegal, as some have argued...could this all be a ploy to get Dems back to WI? They pass this "bill" knowing it's never going to hold up, but the Dems come back. The second they step into the chamber, they pull out the old bill and pass it legally. It sounds cynical...but no more cynical than what they pulled tonight.

2) The ULTIMATE hail-mary. What happens if the GOP quickly brings up a bill that has nothing to do with the budget -- a bill that re-writes the recall laws before the signatures are submitted, that basically remove the ability to recall them? I wouldn't put that past them, either.

Posted by: TheBBQChickenMadness | March 9, 2011 9:23 PM | Report abuse

@mikefromArlington: +1

Posted by: ExperimentalTheologian | March 9, 2011 9:23 PM | Report abuse

There is some speculation out there that this vote was a ploy to get the Dems back in the state so they can be forced into a quorum on the original bill.

Nothing would surprise me.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | March 9, 2011 9:24 PM | Report abuse

Only a WPO left wing JornOlist would accuse the GOP of Shenangins. They did what they had to do. The fourteen senators who fled the state were lawlessly flaunting the prime rule of democracy. If your side loses make your arguements, vote against the other sides legislation and get on with it. The fourteen aren't heros, they are thugs and cowards. They are the ones who should be recalled, period.

Posted by: jkk1943 | March 9, 2011 9:26 PM | Report abuse

I'll believe they're serious about Rights when they are marching and rioting in all the other states that prohibit public sector unions (Virginia, Indiana, etc).

Until then it's all about power and union payroll deductions, which are donated to Dem politicians, who are then across the table at contract negotiations.

...Can't blame them for fighting hard to keep that... hellofa gig if you got it.

Posted by: TominColorado | March 9, 2011 9:26 PM | Report abuse

All you conservatives/Republicans: Are you for or against "ramming through" legislation? And what does "ramming through" mean, anyway"

Posted by: LeftCoast5 | March 9, 2011 9:26 PM | Report abuse

"Oh no, here comes Micheal Moore on Rachel Maddow!"

So clawrence, please tell us , when Rachel comes on, do you put away the inflatable doll and turn on MSNBC and put your hands between your legs? The Plum Line community demands to know.

Posted by: filmnoia | March 9, 2011 9:27 PM | Report abuse

One of the great things about America, we have States.
Wisconsin is important, but it is Wisconsin.

First they came for Wisconsin...

Posted by: shrink2 | March 9, 2011 9:29 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone else know how much "kazillions of dollars" is?

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 9, 2011 9:30 PM | Report abuse

Hysterical Democrats....feel free to shut up.

You passed a health care law changing 1/6th of our economy, using budget-reconcilation rules designed simply to break impasses over simple and normally-recurring appropriation bills. Don't cry one word about the GOP senators in Wisconsin "ramming this through"....

Posted by: motion3 | March 9, 2011 9:34 PM | Report abuse

Looks like Republicans have finally learned a trick or two from the Democrats.

Posted by: dumbreddown | March 9, 2011 9:35 PM | Report abuse

The Dayen piece is quite informative. This is going to court, and I assume while it is, collective bargaining is still in effect. This only gives more time for a recall effort against these GOP cretins.

Posted by: filmnoia | March 9, 2011 9:35 PM | Report abuse

BBQ:

""It sounds cynical...but no more cynical than what they pulled tonight.""

But is it as cynical as departing the state precisely to prevent a quorum from being established?

Posted by: ScottC3 | March 9, 2011 9:35 PM | Report abuse

clawrence:

If I remember P.J. O'Rourke correctly a Kazillion must be somewhere around a DingDongDillion give or take a factor of 1000.
Once we hit these numbers with vapor trails of zeros behind them we really need to use scientific notation.

Posted by: TominColorado | March 9, 2011 9:37 PM | Report abuse

It's so on.

Posted by: pythonS | March 9, 2011 9:38 PM | Report abuse

Why update with those whiners at FDL. SAve the keystrokes.

Scumbags like them trash the top of the ticket day in and day out then sit around all smug and snipe all day then act all flabbergasted when the right wingers take ccontrol and pull off something like they've just done on WI.

They were even attacking Fiengold before the 2010 election for voting for HCR. Well guess f'in what. When you attack the top of the ticker endlessly don't act shocked when a bunch of progressive legislation gets overturned when nobody could be bother to come out and vote.

There was no reason WI should have been a sweep like it was.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | March 9, 2011 9:39 PM | Report abuse

Motion, re the ObamaCare Cramdown...

LOL, the State of Maine just got a Waiver yesterday. Yes, you read that right:

The State of Maine

Now over 1000 organizations have been granted waivers.

Didn't get yours? Me neither.

Posted by: TominColorado | March 9, 2011 9:42 PM | Report abuse

pythonS, if you live within driving distance of Madison WI you should make your way to the Capitol (per Micheal Moore).

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 9, 2011 9:42 PM | Report abuse

I LOVE IT! These spoiled brat union members just got their bum spanked! Who needs the Democrats in the WI senate anyway. Walker will be seen as the Chris Christie of the Midwest now. It is incredible how these greedy union members have managed to delude themselves into thinking they have the backing of the general public. Somehow they think all those voters that gave power to the Republicans in WI have changed their minds about why they kicked the Democrats out of office. Walker is doing EXACTLY what he said he would do if elected.

You liberal wackos keep ignoring reality. It has become very entertaining watching you all come to the realization that your gravy train of union power and money is coming to an abrupt end. Also, you are now seeing that you can no longer flat out lie to the public and expect them to give you a pass. The damage liberals have done to this country is now displayed for everyone to see. All liberals and elected Democrats are hell bent on destroying this country to remake it into their socialist utopia (aka nightmare). Keep on doing what you are doing because it is only accelerating your demise and that is a very good thing for this country's future.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | March 9, 2011 9:43 PM | Report abuse

Chewie (or Chewbacca) -

The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act WAS NOT passed using Reconciliation. Reconciliation WAS used to pass the correction bill (Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 (H.R. 4872)).

AND GIVEN THE # OF TIMES RECONCILIATION WAS USED BY REPUBLICANS, I suggest you read up Reconciliation before you spout off.

'''''''''''''''''
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_%28United_States_Congress%29#Historical_use
'''''''''''''''''
So how does it feel to have something you don't agree with rammed down your throat through the use of obscure rules? I remember that feeling when Obamacare was rammed through using Reconciliation. Only difference? I don't recall those who opposed Obamacare in Congress running away to hide in another state like a spoiled child who doesn't get what they want. Have a good evening, folks. You can dish it out but you can't take it.

Posted by: donchew1 | March 9, 2011 9:12 PM

Posted by: smd1234 | March 9, 2011 9:44 PM | Report abuse

shrink:

""One of the great things about America, we have States. ""

Hear, hear!

Why people in California, New York, Virginia, et al should be this passionate about how Wisconsin deals with its public sector unions is a little bit bewildering.

(And now we await for the false analogy applying the above to, say, slavery or Jim Crow in 3, 2, 1...)

Posted by: ScottC3 | March 9, 2011 9:46 PM | Report abuse

For those of you speculating on the republicans waiting until the democrats return so they can bring out the current bill and pass it, that only makes them look even worse. They already have the Unions and a whole lot of other people running what looks to be a very successful recall campaign. do they really want to add fuel to their own burning stake?

Although, given their Highly intelligent behavior so far, they very well could be that dumb.

Posted by: ceflynline | March 9, 2011 9:47 PM | Report abuse

It's the beginning of the end of the line for the public union gravy train in Wisconsin. All that is needed now is a heavy dose of privatization. We could start with giving parents vouchers to take their tax money from public schools to use them in the schools of their choice. Walker needs to work on that one.

Posted by: pijacobsen | March 9, 2011 9:52 PM | Report abuse

Game, set, match, it's over......lol

Posted by: CarolinaMike | March 9, 2011 9:53 PM | Report abuse

The left will go all the way on this. Marches, recalls, strikes, court fights, you name it.

The power and money circle of:
- automatic payroll deductions of Union dues,
- then contributions to elect Dem politicians,
- who are then across the table for contract negotiations,
is huge to them.

Posted by: TominColorado | March 9, 2011 9:55 PM | Report abuse

Funny the author is so critical of "tricks" (as he calls them) GOP lawmakers used to circumvent the fleebaggers. I don't see him too concerned about the fleebagger's "trick" of running to avoid the issue. Decision carry consequences and the fleebaggers are reaping theirs now.

Posted by: navy_wings | March 9, 2011 9:56 PM | Report abuse

"(And now we await for the false analogy applying the above to, say, slavery or Jim Crow in 3, 2, 1...)"

Hi Everybody! What passion!

Scott, the analogy is already completed in the previous "filmnoia thinks Republican should be the victims of genocide" thread.

Now with pictures!

Thanks for reading! (if you choose to!) ;-)

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 9, 2011 9:58 PM | Report abuse

I quote the current President: "Elections mean thing. I won."

Elections mean things. Last November, the people of Wisconsin threw out the Democrats at all levels of government and elected Republicans. THEY WON. If such a comment was good enough for the President to use, it's good enough (and equally true) for them to use in Wisconsin.

If the healthcare bill can be rammed through using an obscure budgeting gimmick to get around the normal rule of requiring 60 votes for budgetary items, this trick being done BY Democrats, then they've already set that as something acceptable (using gimmicks to get around what are otherwise the rules and ram something through with only hours of actual consideration of the actual bill). Unless, of course, what's being said is: it's okay when we (Democrats) do those things, but it's not when anyone else does.

Kudos to Governor Walker. I look forward to the people talking about successfully recalling him failing miserably, as they will almost certainly do. Then again, these are the same people who said Dems would win last November. Certainly gives them credibility with THIS prognostication.

Posted by: jms60t5 | March 9, 2011 9:58 PM | Report abuse

Howard Fineman made an interesting point tonight.
With their over reach the GOP is hoping for a reciprocal over reach from the Dems and labor. Rove's fingerprints are all over Walker's office.

Posted by: filmnoia | March 9, 2011 9:58 PM | Report abuse

Recall the Republicans for their actions? What a hypocrite liberal. How about recalling the 14 democrats who have abdicated their responsibility and duty by fleeing to another state? Collecting a paycheck while not "on the job" to many working Americans would be considered fraud and theft.

Posted by: navy_wings | March 9, 2011 9:58 PM | Report abuse

One other point to consider. The Unions offered concessions on wages and benefits as a deal to get Walker to drop the anti union legislation. The republicans passes ONLY the anti union legislation.

Do the unions have any reason to continue to offer the concessions?

Maybe time for the unions to start attacking the tax cuts that the Republicans used to generate the deficit in the first place.

"These eight State Senators gave away your good schools to have the money to let the rich take another vacation. Time to let THEM take a permanent vacation."

Posted by: ceflynline | March 9, 2011 9:59 PM | Report abuse

Time for Ed Schultz. I guess that CNN was wrong, and the 14 Democratic Senators (at least 10 of them) are staying away. Good!

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 9, 2011 10:01 PM | Report abuse

Greg, what if this goes to court and Republicans lose? How is that for overplaying your hand?

Posted by: fishellb | March 9, 2011 10:03 PM | Report abuse

Wisconsin HAS (2008) BEEN a B- which is the national average.
http://www.pewcenteronthestates.org/uploadedFiles/Overall%20Performance.pdf

As a vital component of Pew’s efforts to foster effective solutions to some of America’s most pressing challenges, Pew's Grading the States 2008 report, developed in partnership with Governing magazine, is an assessment of the quality of management in the 50 states. The report’s findings are generated from extensive interviews and surveys of state-level managers and opinion leaders.

The results reported in Grading the States 2008 reflect the performance of each state as a whole—including the intersection between the executive and legislative branches—not any individual or specific department. The cumulative assessments reflect the leadership and program implementation skills of elected and appointed officials as well as career civil servants and the not-for-profit and private sector providers who partner with states in the execution of policy and programs.

The report examines amd measures four key areas- money, people, infrastructure and information.
http://www.pewcenteronthestates.org/gpp_report_card.aspx

Posted by: smd1234 | March 9, 2011 10:07 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: ceflynline
Do the unions have any reason to continue to offer the concessions?
**********************************************

It doesn't matter. It will get passed anyway when the Democrats get back in the statehouse. Their little stunt has run its course and now they are getting spanked for their irresponsibility of not performing their duties.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | March 9, 2011 10:09 PM | Report abuse

Navy wings: Not that it means anything, but all 16 Wisconsin State Senators who are eligible for recall supposedly have petitions out to recall them. Lets see who actually get recalled.

And in these matters success often breeds excess. When the Dems get the scalps of 8 Republicans, will they not go looking to complete the set with walker's, and maybe for good measure include the Lt Governor, Kleefisch, and the AG, Holden?

Once upon a time, at Ramasun Station in Thailand there was a less than perspicacious young specialist who was driving a military truck into Udorn. As he drove along he observed a king cobra crawling across the road in front of him. he Apparently did something, like blow his horn, to cause the snake to stop and rise up and look at his truck. local nationals say that he then got out off his truck and tried to shoo this snake off the road. The snake struck downards at him, hitting him just above the heart and breaking two ribs. That poor soldier died rather suddenly. The snake then crawled up on the hood of the truck, where he was found by the soldiers who came to find out what was keeping the truck from getting to its destination. the cobra was more than twelve feet long.

Moral: When you see a dangerous animal not bothering you, just getting out of your way, don't go out of your way to get it to attack you.

Walker doesn't seem to understand this very well.

Posted by: ceflynline | March 9, 2011 10:13 PM | Report abuse

"Absolutely essential that we go back and fight this, we join the citizens of Wisconsin ... shoulder to shoulder, arm hold to arm ..."

But not tomorrow.

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 9, 2011 10:16 PM | Report abuse

12BBA-

Why? Cannot guess, but it is clear the release of the emails was one part of a big ruse.

I think Jim T. must be the "brains" behind it - James Troupis, attorney for Fitzgerald. He's originally from a small town in ILL, and is a true believer in Repub-stuff.

http://www.journaltimes.com/article_fad6725e-45c7-11e0-8437-001cc4c03286.html

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/republican_wisc._senators_authorize_arrest_of_awol_democratic_colleagues/

http://www.wisn.com/news/27060885/detail.html

'''''''''''''''''''
Since Walker and his GOP mates could have done this any time in the last three weeks, what can be made of the timing? Obviously, all their predictions that the Democrats were cracking and would be back any minute were false. I'm assuming that the nuclear option was Plan B.

Why did the WI GOP pick today to execute the nuclear option? Any ideas?

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | March 9, 2011 9:08 PM

Posted by: smd1234 | March 9, 2011 10:17 PM | Report abuse

IMO people tonight have been missing the forest for the trees.

Yes this is one state..Wisconsin..one tree...one subject..employee unions...

but the forest is out there...1,000,000 Americans evicted from their homes...the 60 minute report Sunday night on the dramatic increase in CHILDHOOD poverty...and the banksters..the wall street boys...RECORD salaries and bonuses...just over two years since Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sachs, AIG et al trashed our economy with bogus financial instruments...screwy derivatives with uncollateralized insurance called CDS's...

Sooner or later the middle class of America is going to wake up...sooner or later..facebook..twitter..and the rest of the social media will be afire with young people peoed that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one's home), the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 42.7%.!!!!!!!
Which of you righty morons wish to defend this as fair?

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

This Wisconsin "tree" is just the first to fall in a forest of unfairness. Enough is enough. If you read the vast majority of the posters on here from the right they are all either very wealthy or very old or perhaps both. Look at a typical tea bagger rally...old white folks by and large.

Wisconsin and what is going on in neighboring Michigan which is even worse are simply the beginning of the end for either the blood sucking oligarchs or for the middle class. Time will tell.

Not to be too overdramatic..we'll always have the blood sucking oligarchs in some fashion...but will we finally begin to restrain some of their GREED for the good of this country? Countries with large middle classes tend to have vibrant economies...those with all the wealth at the top of the pyramid are usually referred to as Banana republics.


Posted by: rukidding7 | March 9, 2011 10:19 PM | Report abuse

mikefromArlington -

I absolutely agree.

''''''''''''''''

Why update with those whiners at FDL. SAve the keystrokes.

Scumbags like them trash the top of the ticket day in and day out then sit around all smug and snipe all day then act all flabbergasted when the right wingers take ccontrol and pull off something like they've just done on WI.

They were even attacking Fiengold before the 2010 election for voting for HCR. Well guess f'in what. When you attack the top of the ticker endlessly don't act shocked when a bunch of progressive legislation gets overturned when nobody could be bother to come out and vote.

There was no reason WI should have been a sweep like it was.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | March 9, 2011 9:39 PM

Posted by: smd1234 | March 9, 2011 10:22 PM | Report abuse

I live in Wisconsin. Until tonight, I had no plans to sign any recall petitions. Now I can't wait. Whoever is running the recall campaigns, I hope you will be at the capitol tomorrow. I want to recall all Republican senators except for Schultz, the only one who has distinguished himself as a person of conscience.

Posted by: Begemot | March 9, 2011 10:23 PM | Report abuse

Heck, the Dem Fleebaggers have been hiding for three weeks now, enough is enough.

Time for the Reps to untie the sack and unleash the "Dogs of Woah" on a bunch of non-fiscal issues:

Right-to-Work.

Eliminate automatic payroll deduction of union dues.

Voter photo ID at the polls.

Proof of residency to vote, no same-day registrations.

And for all residents of Madison: Mandatory buzz-cut flat-top haircuts for all males, daily bathing and brushing for all females. (heh)

Posted by: TominColorado | March 9, 2011 10:26 PM | Report abuse

@Scott

"But is it as cynical as departing the state precisely to prevent a quorum from being established?"

You clearly don't understand what the word cynical means, or how to properly use it in a sentence.

Please attempt to get some semblance of an education. Until then, my time would be better spent trying to explain string theory to a cat.

Posted by: TheBBQChickenMadness | March 9, 2011 10:27 PM | Report abuse

"Countries with large middle classes tend to have vibrant economies."

The middle class is the only class that matters. Otherwise history is all the same: how the tiny class of powerful people dealt with all the poor people.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 9, 2011 10:27 PM | Report abuse

OT but thanks again to shrink and sue for convincing me to add TrollHunter and most of all thanks to Kevin our Memphis buddy for creating it...

Now when I see some wack job birther or someone refer to journolist I can quickly dispatch them...forever..what a concept!

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 9, 2011 10:27 PM | Report abuse


"Countries with large middle classes tend to have vibrant economies...those with all the wealth at the top of the pyramid are usually referred to as Banana republics."

Hi ruk! Hope all is well. If what your saying is true, then take a look at the provided link. Do all the countries above us on the chart have "large middle classes?" What about all the countries below us, do they have small middle classes?

Thanks for the great comments all!

http://seekingalpha.com/article/178096-2010-country-gdp-growth-estimates


Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 9, 2011 10:32 PM | Report abuse

How would a "general strike" make unions in WI more popular? Buses don't run, cops don't show up, factories and schools shut down... and it seems to me the anti-union forces will have bluffed a winning hand on a pair of deuces.

*If I were a union strategist I would not recommend a general strike.
If I were the WI Senate Majority Leader I would welcome it.*

Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 9, 2011 10:35 PM | Report abuse

Troll that is not smart, 2010 growth, serious?
How long does it take to grow a healthy middle class?

1) one year (hint: wrong answer)
2) fifty years
3) one or two hundreds of years

Posted by: shrink2 | March 9, 2011 10:37 PM | Report abuse

One other point to consider. The Unions offered concessions on wages and benefits as a deal to get Walker to drop the anti union legislation. The republicans passes ONLY the anti union legislation.

Do the unions have any reason to continue to offer the concessions?

Posted by: ceflynline | March 9, 2011 9:59 PM
==========================================

Of course not. The fleebaggers can stay in Illinois until their terms are up, and the layoff notices can be mailed out at any time now. The fleebaggers have already tried to trump the will of the voters by fleeing the state---oh, and the only poll that means anything was held in November at the ballot box. I suppose now they'll try to find some pinko judge to further thwart the will of the people.

Posted by: Brigade | March 9, 2011 10:40 PM | Report abuse

@mike and smd

I think you have jumped to a fallacious conclusion. It wasn't concern with Obama's failure to live up to the expectations of the Dem base that caused the teabagging bloodletting in Nov.

IMO you two are just as wrong as the teabaggers who think 11/10 was a "mandate" for their radical policies. It was simply a reaction to a horrible economy and the usual apathy among young people. If we're honest we'd realize that the most remarkable thing the Obama 08 campaign pulled off was getting young folks involved. B.O.'s future will depend on that...not getting his base to toe the line.

Stop bashing those who do not walk lockstep with the President...and start focusing on the real challenge for the Dems in the NEXT election...getting out the young vote...and by young I mean everyone under 45. I know for a fact we had two employees who were too apathetic to vote...one 49 the other 40.
They couldn't be bothered..it had NOTHING to do with bloggers who were angry with Obama at their perceived failure of ACA.
It has everything to do with the economy combined with teabagger enthusiasm and apathy on the part of the youthful vote.

Be thankful...there is every chance that what is going on in the "rustbelt" right now will fire up both the Dem base as well as the youth vote for the NEXT election. And isn't that the one that really counts?

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 9, 2011 10:40 PM | Report abuse

The Dayen piece is quite informative. This is going to court, and I assume while it is, collective bargaining is still in effect. This only gives more time for a recall effort against these GOP cretins.

Posted by: filmnoia | March 9, 2011 9:35 PM
===================================

"Dreeeeaaaaammmmm, when you're feeling blue"---Johnny Mercer

Posted by: Brigade | March 9, 2011 10:44 PM | Report abuse

Mark, does it really matter what the popular opinion is? If someone is trying to slit my throat, I'm not going to worry about the political ramifications of defending myself.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 9, 2011 10:50 PM | Report abuse

Yellowbellies seldom win, and we knew these 14 Dems were yellow when they tucked tail and headed for Illinois instead of fighting, win or lose, as they were elected to do. Pure scum and not fit to serve. I suppose that's why the Wisconsin voters threw most Dems in the toilet this past November. Somebody flush.

Posted by: Brigade | March 9, 2011 10:50 PM | Report abuse

It's clear the Republicans have organized this nationwide, included the attack on NPR and the attempted attack on PBS. They want complete control of the media and the money. No newspaper, radio station, cable station unowned; no union funds for Democrats. Control of the curriculum in schools and the ability to fire any teacher who does not conform.

Just remember the Egyptians did their revolution without money. Unless they control the Internet ... which may be another target disguised as a "national security" issue and/or a local Comcast issue ... we can still organize at the grassroots level and take back our democracy, or what is left of it.

Posted by: Akamai1 | March 9, 2011 10:51 PM | Report abuse

Mark, does it really matter what the popular opinion is? If someone is trying to slit my throat, I'm not going to worry about the political ramifications of defending myself.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 9, 2011 10:50 PM
======================================

Popular opinion be damned. Just flee to Illinois.

Posted by: Brigade | March 9, 2011 10:52 PM | Report abuse

Good evening my jarhead friend...:-)

I checked your link but it was from some investment types. Those wouldn't be some of the same people who helped start our mess to begin with now would they? You know the very oligarchs I've been talking about.

As a former marine you presumably would accept something a little more neutral from wikipedia...the CIA estimates of GDP growth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_real_GDP_growth_rate

And yes many of the countries above us have very vibrant middle classes...of course when you're 133rd in the world I concede that doesn't prove anything.

And so riddle me this Troll. Is it your suggestion that the fact that the last time our wealth inequality reached the staggering proportions it stands today was right before the Great Depression and just COINCIDENTALLY a Great Recession occurs once again when we have this warped income distribution? Do you find any other similarities between the Great Depression and the Great Recession...as in Wall Street bankster running wild largely unregulated...as in a long period of primarily Republican leadership in the W.H.?

Or is it your contention that these were all simply coincidences?

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 9, 2011 10:52 PM | Report abuse

"Troll that is not smart, 2010 growth, serious?
How long does it take to grow a healthy middle class?

1) one year (hint: wrong answer)
2) fifty years
3) one or two hundreds of years"

Hi shrink! Hope all is well! I'm just trying to understand economics. We were just told "Countries with large middle classes tend to have vibrant economies...those with all the wealth at the top of the pyramid are usually referred to as Banana republics." and either the data doesn't add up, or, my understanding of what constitutes a middle class is wrong. Now, I'm curious why you chose the "move the goal post" argument versus the "What First World Country on that list exercised a little stimulus? The stimulus you always deride?" argument. Oh well, must still be rattled by all the "right wing terrorists.". ;-)

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 9, 2011 10:56 PM | Report abuse

@Troll

Sorry it's bedtime for Bonzo. Yeah I'll play the chimp and you can be St. Ronnie. :-)

I'll check tomorrow for your response about all the amazing coincidences.

I find it ironic I've finally installed Troll Hunter at work and home and yet I don't feel the need to block the only poster who honestly refers to himself as Troll. LMAO

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 9, 2011 10:58 PM | Report abuse

"I find it ironic I've finally installed Troll Hunter at work and home and yet I don't feel the need to block the only poster who honestly refers to himself as Troll. LMAO

Posted by: rukidding7"

Really? Isn't he the one who always refers to President Obama as "boy"?

Posted by: DDAWD | March 9, 2011 11:01 PM | Report abuse

"And so riddle me this Troll. Is it your suggestion that the fact that the last time our wealth inequality reached the staggering proportions it stands today was right before the Great Depression and just COINCIDENTALLY a Great Recession occurs once again when we have this warped income distribution? Do you find any other similarities between the Great Depression and the Great Recession...as in Wall Street bankster running wild largely unregulated...as in a long period of primarily Republican leadership in the W.H.?

Or is it your contention that these were all simply coincidences?"

Hi ruk! Coincidence is not causality. Though, great arguments can and have been made that government corruption, horrible government policy, and breathtakingly bad government decisions before during and after the crash not only worsened it's effects but lengthened the suffering. ;-)

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 9, 2011 11:02 PM | Report abuse

"Really? Isn't he the one who always refers to President Obama as "boy"?"

Hi DDAWD! Hope all is well with you! Interesting question! Why, I bet it wont take you very long find where I've written that. ;-). I guess I should prepare myself for a horrible shaming!

Thanks for reading! (If you choose to!) :-)

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 9, 2011 11:11 PM | Report abuse

ddawd, a "general strike", which is a ULP under Taft-Hartley, is not like fighting, it is like pissing. Fighting by a public employee union would involve collecting signatures or getting out votes.

Considering that the polls in WI purport to favor the teachers' union position on CBAs, and it seems to me they would, a secondary boycott by a union not subject to the dispute could only erode the support for either sigs or votes. Isn't that obvious to you? If not, what am I missing?

Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 9, 2011 11:16 PM | Report abuse

Troll, if you want to defend your 2010 growth chart as something meaningful, do it, say why it matters.

If you want to talk about the trajectory of the middle class, international macroeconomic trends and the future of America, do it, just make a point.

If you want to defend massive wealth disparity, same thing, go for it. Tell a story you like and defend it.

"my understanding of what constitutes a middle class is wrong"

I think so. I'll still respect you in the morning, good night.


Posted by: shrink2 | March 9, 2011 11:18 PM | Report abuse

Damn the Republican Party. We're taking it to the streets next. There's more of us workers than there are fat cats. Foxnews won't help you now. Time to get the wealthy deadbeats to pay up.

Posted by: Alex3 | March 9, 2011 11:38 PM | Report abuse

Wisconsin Walker has entered the major league now. He is made of sterner stuff than the namby-pamby liberal media bobbleheads gave him credit for.

Called their bluff and won.

Some show!

Posted by: battleground51 | March 9, 2011 11:46 PM | Report abuse

@Scott "Why people in California, New York, Virginia, et al should be this passionate about how Wisconsin deals with its public sector unions is a little bit bewildering."

Cause we actually give a damn about the well being of these teachers even though they are complete strangers. The attack on teachers is outrageous. These are most likely college educated workers that do our country a great service and don't deserve to get attacked by a bunch of out of state money just to make the Dem base weaker. Isolating out our teachers in a partisan battle is heartless. Why would Republicans want to drive away future potential teachers and send them the message they will be the target the next time they want to gain more control.

What's happened today is the reasoning behind teaches voting primarily democratic. They are under constant assault from republicans.

It's outrageous.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | March 9, 2011 11:52 PM | Report abuse

What Mullah Walker is attempting to do in Wisconsin is typical of todays Teabagger Republican governors. They blame a sector of the middle class (union workers) for all the countries (states) economic problems and get the middle class and poor fighting among themselves for leftover economic crumbs.


Once they've got that misdirection in place they proceed to selling off the states assets at pennies on the dollar and handing out unpaid for, deficit ballooning, Tax Cuts to the Billionaire and Mega Corporation class of the state (the Koch Brothers). And because of those unpaid for tax cuts for the rich the states economic health never improves, thus giving the extremist Republican governor another excuse to cut more middle class services (Police, Fire, Garbage-service, Teachers etc) again.


I hope the protests against these goon Republican governors spread all over the country. I want the extremist Republican party to see what real middle class grassroots anger looks like in their face (unlike the astroturfed Teabagger shout-fests that are bankrolled by right wing oil billionaires i.e. the Koch Brothers).


2012 is payback time for the extremist Teapublican party, and I can't wait.


.

Posted by: DrainYou | March 10, 2011 12:06 AM | Report abuse

No matter which side of the ideological divide you call home, if you're honest you need to admit that this was a slimy move. Of course, the conservatives jettisoned honesty decades ago so I do t expect that admission.

And, o, RUK, the middle class is not going to wake up. Oh, there will be protests, and likely the will be GOP recalls, and similar moves will be blocked in a few other states .. nutmegs American trend is unmistakable and the road leads to serfdom. The great experiment with a middle class that began in the 1930s and reached its apotheosis in the New Deal is being systematically dismantled by a few thousand people with obscene amounts of money who will never stop wanting more.

Wave goodbye to home ownership, to incomes above poverty but below great wealth, to self-determination and stability. Wave goodbye to hope for your own future, to expectations of good lives for your children. Wave goodbye to the good life. Wave goodbye forever to wolves and lynxes and polar bears.

Say hello to low pay, long hours, foul air and water, unsafe workplaces, deficiency diseases, collapsing bridges and overflowing sewers, and endless shabbiness and shoddiness and helplessness and despair.

This is the America that conservatives want. The restoral of the natural feudal order. Viewed from the perspective of history, it all makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is how so many of the people being ruined are cheering it on.

Enjoy your decline, chumps.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 10, 2011 12:10 AM | Report abuse

why does this damned spellchecker change "but the" to "nutmegs" when I'm not looking?

Posted by: caothien9 | March 10, 2011 12:16 AM | Report abuse

Shrink-
I'm probably just reinforcing your point, but.......
WI (where I went to college - in Madison) does indeed have a state "way of doing things" that is pretty clean

see - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._La_Follette,_Sr.

LaFollette LOST to McCarthy

''''''''''''''''
One of the great things about America, we have States.
Wisconsin is important, but it is Wisconsin.

First they came for Wisconsin...

Posted by: shrink2 | March 9, 2011 9:29 PM

Posted by: smd1234 | March 10, 2011 12:19 AM | Report abuse

Why people in California, New York, Virginia, et al should be this passionate about how Wisconsin deals with its public sector unions is a little bit bewildering.

==

Of course it's bewildering to YOU .. that would be because you are a morally defective who is completely mystified about why people should care about one another.

You may not understand why people care about each other, but at least by now you should have come to recognize your own shortcomings by the big hole it leaves in the your ability to comprehend others' beliefs.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 10, 2011 12:22 AM | Report abuse

With typical Republican arrogance Walker took office, backed by billionaires (the Koch crooks), and decided to force through a radical agenda. Walker has proven that even a cowed, unemployed, discouraged and dishearted population will fight back against the billionaire funded/Teapublican agenda when they go too far.


Walker and his Republican partners in crime will be recalled barring another massive influx of oil billionaire Koch Brothers cash, or a scandal that forces him out earlier than next winter and given his record, either is a real possibility. Let his recall be a warning to the radical right wing lunatic fringe - you do not represent the people of this country, and no amount of Fox News Propaganda, or corrupt Citizen's United Cash (Koch Brothers, Dick Armey, Karl Rove etc) will outweigh the democratic process.


2012 is payback time for the Teapublicans, and I can't wait.


.

Posted by: DrainYou | March 10, 2011 12:29 AM | Report abuse

of interest tonite

http://www.upa.pdx.edu/IMS/currentprojects/TAHv3/Content/Graphics/Herblock_McCarthyism.jpg

Herblock’s “You mean I’m supposed to stand on that!” (March 29, 1950) cartoon first coining the term “McCarthyism” published in the Washington Post. Source: Library of Congress.

Posted by: smd1234 | March 10, 2011 12:39 AM | Report abuse

"Troll, if you want to defend your 2010 growth chart as something meaningful, do it, say why it matters.

If you want to talk about the trajectory of the middle class, international macroeconomic trends and the future of America, do it, just make a point.

If you want to defend massive wealth disparity, same thing, go for it. Tell a story you like and defend it.

"my understanding of what constitutes a middle class is wrong"

I think so. I'll still respect you in the morning, good night."

Hi shrink! Steady there good sir. My chart merely demonstrated that a large middle class is not necessary to a vibrant economy, as measure by you GDP growth. That should be pretty self evident.

As far as the trajectory of the middle class, as long as we increase the governmental burden on the middle class, and on the things that have helped create the middle class, then the trajectory will be for less middle class rather than more. We are facing a world of fierce competition, cheap labor and shipping costs that are very low. It has also become very expensive to manufacture goods in this Country as well as extract natural resources from it. None of those conditions make it easy to maintain a middle class. I believe that in an attempt to create a society more aligned with an "equality of outcomes" rather than continuing to increase the "equality of opportunities" we have burdened ourselves to a point that makes it very difficult to compete. It should not be surprise to you that I think in these terms.
(more in next comment)

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 10, 2011 12:41 AM | Report abuse

Shrink (cont)


Income tax revenue for 2010 is estimated to be about 1,090 trillion, in support of a budget estimated at 3,550 trillion. The deficit for 2010 is estimated at 1,293 trillion. So even doubling the income tax burden, and assuming that the tax revenue actually doubles (an implausible scenario) still doesn't even cover the deficit. As you know, increasing taxes on businesses creates it's own set of problems in terms of, among other things, employment. There are no easy fixes here. If you and your party think that government should be the size it is or bigger, and further agree that the current fiscal course is unsustainable, then make the case for the massive tax increases that will be needed to accomplish that, and the employment consequences that those tax increases will engender. And I agree that revenues are artificially low due to reduced economic activity. But do you see that activity returning to 2006 levels anytime soon considering, for example, the housing market situation? Neither do I, so we cannot count on an improving economy to have as big an impact on improving government revenue as we'd like. Back to very large tax increases to fund the kind of government desired here.

But ultimately we've talked about this before, and will continue to do so in the future. It's got to be more than my pointing out a rather overly simplistic economic proposition being wrong to get you so agitated. If I wrote something earlier that bothered you, let me know and we can discuss that.


http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/piechart_2010_US_total

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 10, 2011 12:43 AM | Report abuse

They should have a one day general strike for the purpose of holding meetings to suppport next steps

Beyond that a general strike will bring rain of public opinion crappola down
'''''''''''''''''

ddawd, a "general strike", which is a ULP under Taft-Hartley, is not like fighting, it is like pissing. Fighting by a public employee union would involve collecting signatures or getting out votes.

Considering that the polls in WI purport to favor the teachers' union position on CBAs, and it seems to me they would, a secondary boycott by a union not subject to the dispute could only erode the support for either sigs or votes. Isn't that obvious to you? If not, what am I missing?

Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 9, 2011 11:16 PM.

Posted by: smd1234 | March 10, 2011 1:00 AM | Report abuse

When two parties enter a negotiation with the same desired outcome it's called collusion not collective bargaining.

This is about President Obama trying to make 2012 about class warfare rather than his bland ineptitude.

Posted by: GorditoMojito | March 10, 2011 1:09 AM | Report abuse

They'll soon beg for 90% marginal tax rates on incomes over $5M when the less well-to-do are paying that or more on personal security... and that is coming soon to a town near you.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | March 10, 2011 1:18 AM | Report abuse

My chart merely demonstrated that a large middle class is not necessary to a vibrant economy

==

That's like saying that surviving into one's 50s isn't essential to enjoying good health.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 10, 2011 1:33 AM | Report abuse

Regarding the unions offering "concessions" on their benefits - once the collective bargaining law is passed by the assembly and signed by the governor, it won't be necessary to "ask" the unions for concessions on benefits. That's the whole point of the law.

Posted by: dromedary72000 | March 10, 2011 1:35 AM | Report abuse

Hey Gordito, class warfare isn't an invention or a diversion, it's a reality, and it is being waged by the wealthy against the rest of us. We can allow our way of life to be destroyed, or we can fight back.

This has been decades in preparation, with billions spent on right-wing think tanks and publishing houses whose only reason for being is th generation of rationales and apologia for accepting poverty, all predictaed on logical-sounding reasoning built upon a pseudoscience called economics.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 10, 2011 1:38 AM | Report abuse

"That's like saying that surviving into one's 50s isn't essential to enjoying good health."

Hi cao! Hope you're having a great morning! Thanks, by the way, for commenting. I asked yesterday, and I'll ask again today, what do you think I meant when I wrote "Ideals are for suckers, as it were.". You've referenced it a couple of times as emblematic of a broader point.

Take care! ;-)

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 10, 2011 1:40 AM | Report abuse

feel free to ask as many times as you like, troll, it's your time to waste.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 10, 2011 1:50 AM | Report abuse

feel free to ask as many times as you like, troll, it's your time to waste."

Thanks for responding, I appreciate it. Why do say that?

I hope you have a great day! :-)

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 10, 2011 1:55 AM | Report abuse

They'll soon beg for 90% marginal tax rates on incomes over $5M when the less well-to-do are paying that or more on personal security... and that is coming soon to a town near you.

==

It would be nice if class warfare didn't become as literal as that, but it just might take having the rapaciously wealthy worrying about their own bodyguards murdering them before things turn around.

It would be so terribly indiscriminate. While there is certainly no shortage of right-wing wealthy who richly deserve to leave the world that way, there are plenty of generously philanthropic and socially-minded who would die in the crossfire

But with both political parties solidly in their corner and even a lot of their victims eagerly in support, it's hard to imagine anything short of physical peril turning things around.

How did it come to this?

Posted by: caothien9 | March 10, 2011 2:07 AM | Report abuse

IS PETER KING (R-New York) THE NEW JOE McCARTHY? – His Words And Actions Are Certainly Just As Un-Umerican

http://groundsforappeal.ihookitup.com/is-peter-king-r-new-york-the-new-joe-mccarthy-the-way-hes-carrying-on-hes-liable-to-become-just-as-unamerican/

Posted by: smd1234 | March 10, 2011 2:16 AM | Report abuse

Democrat legislators flee the state, and people like Greg talk about Republican "shenanigans."

Democrats worship government as the answer to all problems and "how we solve our problems," but they scream about oligopoly the end of civilization if governman employee unions don't have the power to extort the government.

You really can't make this stuff up. It's all about the Democratic Party's money machine -- making taxpayers fund their party -- and giving Democratic special interests benefits at the rest of our expense. Nothing else.

Posted by: quarterback1 | March 10, 2011 6:31 AM | Report abuse

Damn the Republican Party. We're taking it to the streets next. There's more of us workers than there are fat cats. Foxnews won't help you now. Time to get the wealthy deadbeats to pay up.

Posted by: Alex3 | March 9, 2011 11:38 PM
=========================================

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Temper, temper. You should have taken it to the ballot box in November. You're four months late.

Posted by: Brigade | March 10, 2011 6:37 AM | Report abuse

When two parties enter a negotiation with the same desired outcome it's called collusion not collective bargaining.

This is about President Obama trying to make 2012 about class warfare rather than his bland ineptitude.

Posted by: GorditoMojito | March 10, 2011 1:09 AM
========================================

That was inevitable anyway. He has only one other card to play---the well-thumbed race card.

This is what the Democrats seem to overlook. Wisconsin isn't an island. If the national economy improves, Scott Walker will benefit along with everyone else. If things don't work out, and the economy's in the toilet in 2012, giving Obama and the Dems another four years in power may not be the answer. Politicians are sometimes judged on results; that includes Presidents as well as Governors.

The liberals lost this round big time, and video of street rent-a-mobs storming the halls of government, while those elected officials who should be supporting them hide in Illinois, doesn't strike me as something that will appeal to moderates in the long run. "Vote for me! When the going gets tough, I'll get going---right to another state!"

Posted by: Brigade | March 10, 2011 6:45 AM | Report abuse

Wave goodbye to home ownership, to incomes above poverty but below great wealth, to self-determination and stability. Wave goodbye to hope for your own future, to expectations of good lives for your children. Wave goodbye to the good life...

Say hello to low pay, long hours, foul air and water, unsafe workplaces, deficiency diseases, collapsing bridges and overflowing sewers, and endless shabbiness and shoddiness and helplessness and despair.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 10, 2011 12:10 AM
======================================

We tried to warn you. So...when are you coming home?

Posted by: Brigade | March 10, 2011 6:49 AM | Report abuse

Democrats worship government as the answer to all problems and "how we solve our problems," but they scream about oligopoly the end of civilization if governman employee unions don't have the power to extort the government.

==

As if anyone is interested in the wild caricatures of Democrats or liberals coming the feverishly depraved mind of a morally repugrpnant troll.

You use "worship" as hyperbole, but "worship" is a factually accurate description of the reverence "you people" attribute to that aboriginal animism of finance that you call "the marketplace," to which you endow the infallibility to "decide" all of human fate.

Failing to note, as always, that "marketplace decisions" are euphemistic for "the wishes of the wealthy," who are the *worldly* objects of your worship.

You guys are truly screwed up.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 10, 2011 6:52 AM | Report abuse

"When two parties enter a negotiation with the same desired outcome it's called collusion not collective bargaining."

Exactly. What "collective bargaining" means here is that A and B agree that C will pay A $$$, of which $ will be given to B for the next campaign to stay in office and "negotiate" more benefits for A and B.

A also pays B with C's money for B to deprive D of his rights and force him to "join" with A and contribute to B.

That's the reality of the Democrat-government union racket.

Posted by: quarterback1 | March 10, 2011 7:08 AM | Report abuse

Greg, you are a fool.

Posted by: Smarg | March 10, 2011 7:14 AM | Report abuse

*TEA-haw!*

And in one fell swoop, down goes the Fleebaggers’ strategy to hold Wisconsin hostage by pitching public tantrums.

Your revolution is over, Mr. Lebowski. Condolences. The bums lost. My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose.

Do you hear me, Lebowski? The bums will always lose!

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | March 10, 2011 7:33 AM | Report abuse

"There's no quibbling with the fact that if it does stand, Walker and Republicans will have gotten their way in the short term fight. But let's recall an important fact: Republicans control the governorship and state legislature. The fact that they were forced to resort to this trick is itself a concession that they had lost the battle as they themselves had previously defined it. And in so doing, they were forced to pull a maneuver that will only lend even more energy to the drive to recall them."

Hmm, in the first sentence, substitute the words Obama and Democrats. In the second sentence, substitute the words Democrat, Presidency and Congress. In the fourth sentence, substitute the word defeat. Sounds a lot like the way the Democrats passed Obamacare, doesn't it? There may be a bigger idiot than Greg Sargent blogging today (Kos, maybe) but you have to look hard to find him.

Posted by: senor100 | March 10, 2011 7:50 AM | Report abuse

bbq:

""Until then, my time would be better spent trying to explain string theory to a cat.""

Or spewing insults to strangers on a message board, I guess. You do value your time, I see!

Posted by: ScottC3 | March 10, 2011 7:56 AM | Report abuse

mike:

""Cause we actually give a damn about the well being of these teachers even though they are complete strangers. The attack on teachers is outrageous.""

Well, as Tom has pointed out, the policies Wisconsin is seeking to impose already exist in plenty of other states. Have teachers been "attacked" in those places as well? If so, where has the outrage been?

Look, this is hardly a moral abomination. It is a policy position about which people can reasonably disagree. And that is what is great (or should be, in any event) about our federal system...different places can adopt different policies, and people who have opposing policy preferences can each enjoy their preferences by moving to a place that has adopted what they prefer. In my mind there is no reason for this to be a point of national passion, on either side. Let Wisconsonites (Wisconsoners?) sort it out for themselves, and whichever way they go, bully for them.

Posted by: ScottC3 | March 10, 2011 7:59 AM | Report abuse

Victory, thy name is Pyrrhic.

It would have been ugly enough had Walker gotten his way through legitimate legislative process, but this has already turned out to be the most radicalizing political move since Nixon's escalations in Vietnam and the Watergate break in. And passing a bill with zero deficit relief solely to go agreement unions guarantees that funding for Republican recalls will be all but bottomless.

Not to mention bringing the reality of class warfare out of the realm of defensibveness-arousing rhetoric and into the open.

About time. Now grab that ring, Democrats, and don't hesitate to go fr the eyes.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 10, 2011 8:02 AM | Report abuse

Let the battle of recalls begin! The Republicans will look good in comparison to Fleebag Democrats.

Posted by: CitizenWest | March 10, 2011 8:02 AM | Report abuse

Dear Wisconsin Democratic Senators:

Your contributions have not gone unnoticed. You have made a real difference to us. We encourage you to stay the course. Don't hesitate to call.

Regards,

Joe, President, Motel 6

Posted by: jchu591 | March 10, 2011 8:03 AM | Report abuse

Look, this is hardly a moral abomination. It is a policy position about which people can reasonably disagree.

==

Yeah, like reasonable people who think only the wealthy should be allowed to vote.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 10, 2011 8:10 AM | Report abuse

RIP David Broder.

OK, I never read him before 2008, but in that time I never read a single sentence from him that came close to justifying his "dean of American Journalism" title. Matter of fact he never seemed like much more than just another of those "centrist" twits and, more than most, a guy writing from another planet with a funny-colored sky. A wet-fingered writer with an unbearably pompous way of saying strikingly ordinary things.

Some of you who go back further .. where did he get all that esteem from?

Posted by: caothien9 | March 10, 2011 8:17 AM | Report abuse

qb:

""Democrat legislators flee the state, and people like Greg talk about Republican "shenanigans." ""

The same thought occurred to me. I guess we all use language in a way to advance our opinions on things, but this is a pretty brazen disconnect for someone who professes to be a "fair" commentator on events.

Posted by: ScottC3 | March 10, 2011 8:23 AM | Report abuse

shut up greg. your ridiculous democratic leaders fled the state. kind of like if you don't get your way, run away and hide in the closet. the non-ape non-demonstrating majority of wisconsin's voters WANTED this change. you arrogant progressives are all alike. ever wonder why you're the only a**h**** that see fit to loudly espouse your views in a casual social setting, with people you don't know well? it's because you're so sure you're right, and that everyone around you must agree with you. you're more intolerant of dissent than any group of people i know. take a walk, pal, the "people" are against you on this one....


caothien9 - pure stupidity. you think only liberals should be allowed to vote, i'll wager....

Posted by: subframer | March 10, 2011 8:25 AM | Report abuse

How was this any different from how Democrats passed the health bill last year? They had huge majorities in both houses of Congress and the presidency, and had to resort to trickery to get it passed. As Nancy Pelosi said last year, it was important to pass this bill so that the people can see what is in it.

Posted by: KPOM1 | March 10, 2011 8:26 AM | Report abuse

Perfect inside the beltway take on Wisconsin, Greg. Keep up the good work!

Posted by: jy151310 | March 10, 2011 8:27 AM | Report abuse

Well it looks like the goobers have been fed their talking points.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 10, 2011 8:28 AM | Report abuse

Obama has been remarkably silent on this issue, perhaps because he knows that one of his Democratic predecessors took away the collective bargaining rights of federal workers back in the 1970s. When you oppress your own workers and deny them basic rights, it's tough to claim moral high ground.

Posted by: KPOM1 | March 10, 2011 8:30 AM | Report abuse

ScottC3 wrote: "I guess we all use language in a way to advance our opinions on things, but this is a pretty brazen disconnect for someone who professes to be a "fair" commentator on events."

What are you talking about? While the Republicans were sneaking around Madison, sometimes even in their own offices, the Democrats remained perpetually solid in their motels. Duh.

Regards,
The mind of a liberal

Posted by: jchu591 | March 10, 2011 8:31 AM | Report abuse

motion3 wrote:
Hysterical Democrats....feel free to shut up.

You passed a health care law changing 1/6th of our economy, using budget-reconcilation rules designed simply to break impasses over simple and normally-recurring appropriation bills. Don't cry one word about the GOP senators in Wisconsin "ramming this through"....
------------
exactly right. you have to remember, tolerance, political procedure, financial rules, they only apply when they work to liberal advantage. liberals don't want to be sidetracked by silly things like voter sentiment as expressed at the ballot box, or rules, or tolerance in speech. they're smarter, they should just be running things, and if you say anything about it, they should be allowed to vilify you and equate you instantly with hitler. sounds fair, right?

Posted by: subframer | March 10, 2011 8:32 AM | Report abuse

All, Morning Roundup posted:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/03/the_morning_plum_203.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | March 10, 2011 8:38 AM | Report abuse

Greg, you are a fool.

Posted by: Smarg
=========================================
It would actually be forgiveable if Greg was a fool. He's nothing but a corrupt propagandist. He was squeeling like a teenage girl with excitement when the democrats passed Obamacare by deeming it passed. The largest entitlement in US history when the gov't is already unable to pay for the existing entitlements and they don't even have a vote on it. No problem for Greg.

Posted by: peterg73 | March 10, 2011 8:40 AM | Report abuse

Allbutcertain said, "...fit the narrative they're trying to create that Obama and liberals are really 60's-style radicals."

If only that were true, there might be more support from the old radicals and the new ones.

Posted by: johnhouse | March 10, 2011 8:41 AM | Report abuse

subframer wrote:
"they should be allowed to vilify you and equate you instantly with hitler. sounds fair, right?"

Your mind is not right, sir. If you would stick to normal programming, then when the left marches with signs calling for the assassination of a governor, you would see that the Tea Party is a bunch or racist nuts. If you heard of the Ohio legislator and her family who were forced out of their house by police who could no longer guarantee their safety from the left-wing mob, you should have recognized the Tea Party is a bunch of racist nuts. I myself witnessed a pro-union teacher shouting to Tea Party counter protestors, including schoolchildren, calling them "f***ing" fools and others throwing the Hitler card. But when I played it back in my mind, I saw that in reality, the Tea Party is a bunch of racist nuts.

Call us for an appointment soon.

Regards,
Coalition for American Advancement and Reeducation,
Ron Schiller, Chairman

Posted by: jchu591 | March 10, 2011 8:52 AM | Report abuse

The article describes Walker's latest tactic as "drastic". I read another article likening it to the Reconciliation process whereby the Congress passes bills with just a simple majority.

The fact is that Walker's action is legal, and is not unprecedented. I must take exception though to the tone of the article which condemns Walker, while givinga complete pass to the Dem senators who literally ran away from their jobs to another State. You can criticize Walker, but in the scheme of things it's the Dems who have acted like spoiled children who refuse to play the game to the end once they fall behind.

Posted by: JohnR22 | March 10, 2011 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Democratic senators flee the state and hide out for nearly three weeks in undisclosed locations across the border, yet Sargent says it is the Republicans who have engaged in "shenanigans" and "escalated" the battle.

This is just the type of mindless left-wing slant for which the Post is so well known and which has caused its - and its fellow mainstream media's - credibility to reach the same level enjoyed by used car salesmen and televangelists.

Posted by: leeotis | March 10, 2011 9:04 AM | Report abuse

In a bid to protect one of its core constituencies -- public-sector unions -- the left has thrown a prime temper tantrum within and without the marble halls of the state capitol, trotting out its '60-era playbook of chants, signs and sickouts to create a media narrative that the cruel and heartless governor is trying to "destroy the unions."

But this fight is no longer simply about Walker's attempt to balance Wisconsin's wobbly budget, or even about whether public-employee unions ought to have the right to collective bargaining -- they shouldn't, and in fact they shouldn't even exist, as FDR himself warned.

It's now about whether we are to have an orderly democracy or legislative and executive anarchy, whether elections can be delegitimized and even overturned by the daily plebiscites of the polls, by the flouting of sacred oaths of office and by the trampling on the laws of the state.

It must stop. As President Obama liked to remind the GOP during the first two years of his administration, elections have consequences. From the Republican point of view, there was plenty not to like about Obama's program, including the stimulus and the health-care bill, but they voted anyway and took their lumps like grownups.

What the Democrats are doing in Wisconsin is more than just a disgrace. It's a danger to our republican form of government, a formula for permanent, no-holds-barred combat long after the polls have closed and the people have spoken.

Posted by: pijacobsen | March 10, 2011 9:17 AM | Report abuse

"But let's recall an important fact: Republicans control the governorship and state legislature. The fact that they were forced to resort to this trick is itself a concession that they had lost the battle as they themselves had previously defined it"

I think that this comment is rediculus. Let's look at the other side of the coin.
Look at what the democrats had to do in order to prevent democracy from happening. They lost the election and no longer had the power to stop the bill from going through. And instead of submitting to the reality that elections have consequences the fled their responsibility. Sure they may have been taking phone calls and having meetings while they were gone, but they were abdicating from their responcibility as Senators to stand up and vote. Win or lose they are being payed to stand up and vote. Not to run away when they are about to lose no matter how much the loss goes against their values.

Posted by: stvnericson | March 10, 2011 9:18 AM | Report abuse

All political mojorities are temporary, and it behooves a majority to make the most use of it while they have it. Just as the Democrats made the most use of a temporary majority to pass ObamaCare, which is a large step toward something the Democrats have wanted for 120 years (socialized medicine), the Republicans in WI used their temporary majority to take a large step toward breaking the public employee unions. These maneuvers help to clarify what the political parties stand for, and they should make 2012 even more important than it already is.

Posted by: andrewp111 | March 10, 2011 9:19 AM | Report abuse

So much for teabagger bleats about Democrats "ramming" things through.

Teabaggers will be the ones who end up getting rammed, as usual. They are bitter because they are losers.

Posted by: Observer691 | March 10, 2011 9:43 AM | Report abuse

You have got to be kidding me. Lets review, the democrat minority that as elected by the people in a democratic process got prissy and decided on a shenanigan of exploiting a quorum loophole to run and hide. This shenanigan denied the people of Wisconson representation and denied the people of Wisconson a democratic vote by their representatives on an issue. The only shenanigans here are the ones played out but the cowardly democrats and the bottem of the barrel spinners like yourself. The republicans did what the could and even offered compromises and it was the democrats who refused because the wanted no compromise. The only shenanigans here are the ones by the cowardly and hypocritical democrats.

Posted by: krep | March 10, 2011 9:57 AM | Report abuse

The GOP's shenanigans? The Democrats lose the election and instead of staying to do their jobs they run away because they can't get their (or the union's) way.

The Democrats are the ones who should be ashamed of their shenanigans. It is shameful and disappointing to see how these cowards who run away from their responsibilities are looked at by some as "heros".

Posted by: scottb2000 | March 10, 2011 9:58 AM | Report abuse

I'm seeing a lot of the notion that Gov. Walker didn't run on the precise language in this bill so what he is doing is some how illegitimate. Rachel Maddow harped on this last night and Sargent likes to play that card as well.

Aside from the debatable accuracy of the statement, when did it become the rule that unless something is expressly mentioned in a campaign it's off limits when you govern? I must have missed that part in school.

Still, if that's the rule Maddow, Sargent, et al want to live by, I welcome them to the fight to repeal the individual mandate in ObamaCare. See, not only did Obama not run on the idea of such a mandate he expressly ran against it.

Posted by: getjiggly1 | March 10, 2011 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Great point, getjiggly1.

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 10, 2011 10:10 AM | Report abuse

It's just despicable that the Republicans in Wisconsin have resorted to a page out of Nancy Pelosi's political playbook.

Posted by: warnerme | March 10, 2011 10:11 AM | Report abuse

"This kind of conduct is exactly what recalls are for."

Uh, no. Running away and hiding in another state refusing to do your job is the kind of conduct for which recalls were designed.

As far as I'm concerned, those Democrats can stay in Illinois.

SCREW
EVERYBODY!
I'M
UNION!

SEIU

Posted by: DougPiranha | March 10, 2011 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Sorry Greg, sounds like sour grapes. 14 fleebaggers runaway as if from a scene of Monty Python and the Holy Grail and hold hostage the state of Wisconsin. Is this how the Republican's should have acted during the voting of Obamacare. Would you have been fine with that--we know the answer is no. You would have screamed. As your hero, Obama, said upon election--I won and get in the back of the bus. What you and your liberal friends do not seem to think about is the precedent this sets. Even if the dems retake the Wisconsin senate--well Republican's just leave the state and prevent votes. Greg Sargent will be there for you--ha ha, not. You lost in November, get over it, act like an adult and start figuring out how we pay for the programs you want. Otherwise, in the end, none of this will matter as the U.S. and many states go bankrupt. By the way, have you noticed that it is getting harder for the U.S. to sell debt--now that should worry you.

Posted by: johnjamison72 | March 10, 2011 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Boy, is this guy in Dreamland. News flash to Dems and their union thugs - you just got handed your lunch. Want to keep on with crybaby behavior and public rants? Stand buy to lose the rest of your grip. This ain't the 30's and it ain't even the 60's. The country is not in the mood for this stuff - not when they are out of work or losing pay. They are not interested in your golden parachutes or endless benefits. Here's an idea - get out here and start working like the rest of us, instead of throwing tantrums all day.

Posted by: robmac1 | March 10, 2011 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Observer691 | March 10, 2011 9:43 AM

"So much for teabagger bleats about Democrats "ramming" things through. Teabaggers will be the ones who end up getting rammed, as usual. They are bitter because they are losers."

Gee, I guess you don't like it when the shoe's on the other foot. Somebody find me a microscopic violin.


Posted by: pijacobsen | March 10, 2011 10:39 AM | Report abuse

The government employee union goons have been waging backroom economic warfare on the tax payer with their paid-for Democratic cronies for years.

Some on us noticed that and we did not like it very much.

When enough of us noticed that, Republicans won BIG at the state level.

Their actions have angered and 'fired up' the Democratic base. (That is today's talking point - Wisconsin has revitalized the Democratic Party/base - You will hear it and read it often over the next few days)

Obama used is OFA to organize the union goons to try to invalidate the results of the 2010 election through mob intimidation.

It is funny that Plum and his fellow travelers do not realize that Obama and 'goon organizing' has 'fired up' the private sector tax payer base.

Posted by: TECWRITE | March 10, 2011 10:43 AM | Report abuse

The whole state of WI is now the laughing stock of the entire United States. The circus clowns, misfit toys and thugs are putting on quite the spectacle.

Meanwhile, 49 other state legislatures are in session and conducting business. One side or the other will lose as a result of those deliberations but nobody is running for the tall grass or putting on a side show.

Are there any adults left in Wisconsin?

Posted by: elfiii | March 10, 2011 10:56 AM | Report abuse

robmac1 -
"The country is not in the mood for this stuff - not when they are out of work or losing pay. They are not interested in your golden parachutes or endless benefits. Here's an idea - get out here and start working like the rest of us, instead of throwing tantrums all day."

Okay, let's think about this. You can either just shut up and do your work while your pay and benefits get cut or you can "throw tantrums all day" and get "golden parachutes and endless benefits". And your advice is to - shut up and do your work.

"Once I paid my taxes and followed any rule
Banker boss and bureaucrat thought me a willing tool.
I voted Democratic and paid the Church its due.
Now all those swine
Will have to find
Some other chump to screw"

Utah Phillips.

Posted by: willows1 | March 10, 2011 11:02 AM | Report abuse

GOP "shenanigans"? What a joke----when up becomes down, and down becomes up. This is nothing short of shameless idiocy. The entire Democrat caucus leaves the state to avoid their sworn duty, and Sargent calls the work of the elected majority shenanigans. Isn't it ironic, just a bit.

Posted by: FriscoDB | March 10, 2011 11:06 AM | Report abuse

How is this any different from the way the democrats shoved obamacare through?

bribes, rule changes, writing a 2,000 page bill in committees with no repubs present, no media?

you reap what you sow

Posted by: brady00kendo | March 10, 2011 11:07 AM | Report abuse

Let's see the Democratic controlled US Senate used legislative legerdemain to pass Obamacare on a simple majority and were praised by the media for their political acumen.The Wisconsin Senate used a legislative procedure to pass a law opposed by the unions and are roundly condemned by the media. Who says there is no bias in the media?

Posted by: mosmanpat | March 10, 2011 11:07 AM | Report abuse

It's funny how the GOP used the "nuclear attack" to get their bills passed, but no one focuses on the "nuclear attack" that Democrats used to flee the state.
People need to understand that elections have consequences. The people of Wisconsin voted in a Republican majority. They did this despite the $5M the unions spent (about 100 times more than the Koch brothers) to have them defeated.
Now, they have a platform to run with in 2012. That's what our election cycle does - ensure people are fairly represented by the Congresspeople they elect.
Wisconsin GOP has been in power for two months and the Democrats are looking for ways to recall them. This is absolutely childish. But then again, what do you expect from a group of self-serving Democrats and their union puppet-masters.

Posted by: slake2 | March 10, 2011 11:16 AM | Report abuse

"This is exactly the sort of conduct that justifies recalls."

Right, I mean Walker didn't mention this in his campaign... it would be like if Obama ran on a platform of responsible government spending and cuts... oh he did. Bad example I guess?

But at least Obama didn't reply on trickery to pass his signature issue ObamaCare by finally forcing the House to vote on the Senate version unchanged because of a Filibuster due to a replaced Senator; and a series of partisan party-line... oh yeah, that happened too.

Well I'm sure Greg will be calling for the recall of Obama as soon as he remembers recent history. I mean he's logical, rational and consistent in his beliefs right?

Pardon me though if I don't hold my breath waiting however... I really enjoy living.

Posted by: gekkobear | March 10, 2011 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Greg: You completely ignore the conduct of the elected Democrats and their uncivil union supporters and place the entire blame on Walker.

Don't you think the voters of Wisconsin are smarter than that? They know what is really going on here and aren't likely to fall for the false propaganda that you and the unions are spreading.

Posted by: MikesAmerica | March 10, 2011 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Oh please. Liberals have this weird tendency to view the world the way they want it to be and then convince themselves that it is real. Just like Mitch Daniels, Walker's counterpart in Indiana who gutted union "rights, Walker will solve WI's budget mess and be handily re-elected. Unions comprise a very small % of "working families" and the "middle class." Screw 'em.

Posted by: Jarbo1 | March 10, 2011 11:25 AM | Report abuse

"This kind of conduct is exactly what recalls are for."

Silly me. I figured that refusing to show up for work three weeks running is a better reason to recall a Senator than actually showing up to vote.

Posted by: paulthiel1 | March 10, 2011 11:26 AM | Report abuse

paulthiel1 - It's all about perception. The GOP used it masterfully in the HCR debate. The made sure that the Democrats spent every last ounce of political capitol on it. This is what's happening the WI GOP right now. I wouldn't underestimate how this could galvanize Dems and labor even outside of WI. Don't forget the Democrats lost a senate seat in Massachusetts over HCR. What earthquake will hit the GOP over this?

Posted by: willows1 | March 10, 2011 11:32 AM | Report abuse

So, resorting to a legislative maneuver in a place that legislators ARE SUPPOSED TO BE is a "trick," but throwing a tantrum and running out of the state to defeat quorum is...what...business as usual? Even Joe Klein called the Democratic senators out on fleeing the state. Is that what the Republicans are supposed to do when they lose the majority and the Dems want to re-institute collective barganing rights? When the Republicans do it, will you libs hold them as heroes?

Of course not, since hypocrisy and oxymoronic slogans have never held you back before. I am waiting for the article where Greg Sargent lashes out at the Dems for approving the health care bill without debate via reconciliation. Hey Greg, was that exactly the kind of behavior recalls are for too???

Posted by: HankDennemann | March 10, 2011 11:37 AM | Report abuse

The reason there is any question about the legislation's legitimacy is because of how portrayals like this manipulate the facts and their readers.

What exactly was Walker supposed to do here? Just continue to let the AWOL Democratic senators and the unions who own them continue to dictate? I find it stunning that someone (the author) can view the Democratic senators tactics (holding the legislative process hostage) as legitimate and then turn around and criticize Walker and the Republicans for finding a way to continue doing their jobs.

Elections have consequences. I wish someone would educate the public sector unions on this fact.

Posted by: smilek1 | March 10, 2011 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Okay let's deconstruct some of the liberal mythos that is on prominent display in the comments.

I think for the purpose of this incident in Wisconsin we can define GOP shenanigans as 'sticking around to do the job the voters elected you to do'

To the few of you who had the audactiy to refer to the passing of last night's legislation as the 'nuclear' option I would encourage you to spend a little more time in the real world and gain some perspective. When the entire caucus who you are counting on to represent your side of the argument runs away because they are losing a simple change in legislative tactic to pass a needed reform law seems pretty benign in comparison.

Also the whole Koch brothers nonsense being spewed by the irrational left is already tired, and is very loosely based on reality. While it may disturb people on the left to know there are wealthy conservatives who give money to republican politicians, at least these people have the decency to use their own money for campaigning instead of tax payer money.

Some of you are crying about the political motives behind this saying Walker is trying to cut off a fund rasining source from the Democratic party. I would feel bad for you and agree with you if I didn't feel like the unions were funneling tax payer money to one of our political parties. Do whatever the heck you want with your own money. Don't force people (as a condition of being able to have a job) to contribute money to a political party. I think this is a much needed reform and in this particualr case it is the so called progressives who are firmly entrenched against reform.

Then there is all of the hand wringing over 'this is what happens when people don't go out to vote' Well the fact of the matter is that people did go out to vote. They voted to put someone in office whose idea of stewardship of the taxpayer money was to reduce the gravy train that was going to a very privileged minority (similar to the entitled aristocrate of old Europe)

Why do you feel that this group of people should be entitled to have significantly better living conditions at the expense of the private sector workers? I am married to a school teacher, my mother and grandmother were/are school teachers. My brother -in-law is a police officer. I recognize the hard work these people do. But, this does not mean that the taxpayers who have seen their own real wages and benefits go down should have to pay for the lavish benefits and pensions of this privileged class.

Finally there is the idea of Unions being essential to having a strong middle class. This is simply not the case in this situation. THe union protesters are representing a wealthier group of persons against the middle class. If the goal is to have a strong middle class, then the correct approach would be to give the middle class cheaper, leaner government/bureaucracy. The unions are not propping up the middle class, they are an economic burden on the middle class.

Posted by: psych495 | March 10, 2011 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Okay let's deconstruct some of the liberal mythos that is on prominent display in the comments.

I think for the purpose of this incident in Wisconsin we can define GOP shenanigans as 'sticking around to do the job the voters elected you to do'

To the few of you who had the audactiy to refer to the passing of last night's legislation as the 'nuclear' option I would encourage you to spend a little more time in the real world and gain some perspective. When the entire caucus who you are counting on to represent your side of the argument runs away because they are losing a simple change in legislative tactic to pass a needed reform law seems pretty benign in comparison.

Also the whole Koch brothers nonsense being spewed by the irrational left is already tired, and is very loosely based on reality. While it may disturb people on the left to know there are wealthy conservatives who give money to republican politicians, at least these people have the decency to use their own money for campaigning instead of tax payer money.

Some of you are crying about the political motives behind this saying Walker is trying to cut off a fund rasining source from the Democratic party. I would feel bad for you and agree with you if I didn't feel like the unions were funneling tax payer money to one of our political parties. Do whatever the heck you want with your own money. Don't force people (as a condition of being able to have a job) to contribute money to a political party. I think this is a much needed reform and in this particualr case it is the so called progressives who are firmly entrenched against reform.

Then there is all of the hand wringing over 'this is what happens when people don't go out to vote' Well the fact of the matter is that people did go out to vote. They voted to put someone in office whose idea of stewardship of the taxpayer money was to reduce the gravy train that was going to a very privileged minority (similar to the entitled aristocrate of old Europe)

Why do you feel that this group of people should be entitled to have significantly better living conditions at the expense of the private sector workers? I am married to a school teacher, my mother and grandmother were/are school teachers. My brother -in-law is a police officer. I recognize the hard work these people do. But, this does not mean that the taxpayers who have seen their own real wages and benefits go down should have to pay for the lavish benefits and pensions of this privileged class.

Finally there is the idea of Unions being essential to having a strong middle class. This is simply not the case in this situation. THe union protesters are representing a wealthier group of persons against the middle class. If the goal is to have a strong middle class, then the correct approach would be to give the middle class cheaper, leaner government/bureaucracy. The unions are not propping up the middle class, they are an economic burden on the middle class.

Posted by: psych495 | March 10, 2011 11:53 AM | Report abuse

psych495 -

"the correct approach would be to give the middle class cheaper, leaner government/bureaucracy. The unions are not propping up the middle class, they are an economic burden on the middle class."

Interesting that this bill did not address the budget then, no?

Posted by: willows1 | March 10, 2011 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Oh cry me a river. Democrats in the state fled instead of actually representing their non-union membership and yes are actually holding up fixing the budget. You claim that Democrats are blameless in this whole mess. What a load of crock.

Walker and the Republicans took a step to right the state's fiscal ship. Allowing unions to keep their collective bargaining rights at the current level would have ensured in 10 or 15 years the state would be right back where it is now as unions would eventually elect a new Dem Governor annd legislature that would cater to them and roll back any concessions the unions had made with Walker.

Your smarter then this Sargent. If Democrats had been in the state the GOP would not have had to resort to this measure. Moreover, if Dems had stayed in the state and debated in the Senate they might have actually been able to peel 3 GOP yes votes away and killed it. The blame does not rest with Walker and Republicans. It lies with the unions, former governors and legislatures that let the situation get this bad.

Posted by: iacoboni04 | March 10, 2011 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Public unions represent a very small portion of the middle class. The majority of the middle class are private sector workers who are footing the bill for inflated pay, benefits, and early retirement for a class of workers who enjoy lifetime careers in a system where productivity and merit are off the table.
The taxpayers are also funding a money laundering scheme between union bosses and the politicians they buy via mandatory union dues.
The gig is up and Scott Walker is the one who is standing up for the majority of middle class workers.

Posted by: gaphound | March 10, 2011 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Doesn't the tactic used by the GOP in Wisconsin sound a lot like the mirror image of the one used by the Democrats in Washington to pass Obamacare? Declare a bill that obviously wasn't just a bill dealing with finance as such so that it could be voted on without having to pass a filibuster? Suddenly, it's the end of democracy when the GOP does what the Democrats have done on a national level?

Posted by: pacraft35 | March 10, 2011 12:29 PM | Report abuse

You mean the Wisconsin Republicans broke a Democratic fillibuster by using some unsual parlimentary trick? Hmmm, where have we heard that before? The fact is that Gov. Walker and the Republican senators in Wisconsin tried to negotiate with the cowardly 14, emails released via the feedom of information act, and their union masters would not allow them to compromise or negotiate. So who's to blame here. The Republicans won big in 2010 and took over the legislature and the governorship in Wisconsin. They had the right to pass their agenda and they are. The Democrats tried to fillibuster and they failed. Democracy in action. If the Democrats and their supporters don't like it they can run against the Republicans in the next election on this issue. As for the recall effort I wouldn't get too worked up about that. #1 it's not likely to be successful and #2 the Republicans are in the process of putting together recall petetions on some of the cowardly 14. So even if a couple of Republicans get recalled they are liable to get balanced out by the couple of Democrats who get recalled. And even if they could by some miracle get a marjority in the state senate via a recall election the Democrats still wouldn't be able to do anything about the bill taking away the collective bargaining rights because that would require new legislation which would have to pass the Senate and the Republican controlled House and survive a Walker veto.

Posted by: RobT1 | March 10, 2011 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Following Gov Walker's press conference, it is clear that many of the assumptions which energize the multitude of misinformed screeds above are exposed as risibly false. I hope the lefties here will take this opportunity to reflect on why they fail to discern the difference between democratic governance and mob rule: live ammunition found on the capital grounds. Explicit death threats levelled against republican legislators and their families. Obscene howls, menacing threats and physical harassment from out of state union thugs directed by Washington DC, seeking to disrupt the lawful conduct of the government.

And you accuse the republicans of "shenanigans." maybe you could blame Sarah Palin while you're at it.

Posted by: hinckleybuzzard | March 10, 2011 12:50 PM | Report abuse

I'm stunned by this article's view of the events in Wisconsin.

To start:
"The fact that they were forced to resort to this trick is itself a concession that they had lost the battle as they themselves had previously defined it."

Resort to a trick? Since when has passing legislation following all proper legal methods been a trick? The ones that resorted to a "trick" are the Democrats that have fled the state. Deliberately trying to sabotage the legislative process is unacceptable. Imagine what would be said about the Republicans if the reverse had happened! They would have been painted as traitors and cowards, not heroes. And rightly so. Where is the due process in this all? Does it govern our laws and ensure civility, or is it trampled under foot for an agenda? The fact that anyone fled the state, to deliberately jam legislation indicates a lack of respect for the fundamental tenants of democracy.

Have the Republicans been ignoring the "voice of the people". Not at all. There are more people than just those in the rotunda that have a voice. The "voice of the people" spoke in November and the people elected who they saw as the best candidate for them. Now that the representatives have been chosen, it is time for them to represent their people. The people that elected the Republicans have just as much of a voice as do the people that elected the Democrats. A majority of the people have elected republicans.

I would be interested to see the response of the media and democrats if a similar situation were to happen with the rolls reversed.

Imagine there was an organization that was one of the largest financial contributors to the Republican party, that got 100% of its money from tax payers, and had the salaries of their workers set by the government. They could finance the election of the candidate that they would want and then sit down to negotiate with them. It seems straightforward that in return for the monetary contributions for their campaign that the elected official would be very generous in setting wages, benefits, pensions plans, etc. for the organization. I scratch your back, you scratch mine. Never mind that all the money that is being negotiated for/with is neither party's money, it is the taxpayer's. Then when the democrats voted to rid the government of this obviously absurd arraignment, and had the support to do it, the republicans, who want to maintain their agreement for financial reasons, decide to sabotage the system. I think that the media would be appalled (and rightly so) at the actions of the republicans.

Posted by: bobcratchet2009 | March 10, 2011 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Shenanigans? A legislative body showing up for work and taking a vote?

It's over Greg. You lost.

Posted by: ttatum | March 10, 2011 1:04 PM | Report abuse

The shenanigans of the union supporters in Wisconsin is showing the Nation that the teachers unions care only for themselves and to hell with the taxpayers who are paying for their salaries and benefits.

The newest Rasmussen poll shows that 48 percent of those surveyed support Wisconsin Republican Gov. Scott Walker in his showdown with the state's public-employee unions, while 38 percent support the union.

http://tinyurl.com/6agjqz5

This will spread to other states, as Wisconsin in not the only state experiencing a budget crisis because of cadillac retirement and compensation packages, courtesy of the public employee unions.


Posted by: rochester_veteran | March 10, 2011 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Collective bargaining is a fake, phony, fraud as it now stands

5,654,774 citizens of the United States of America live work and pay the salaries of their fellow citizens in the government, of the State of Wisconsin. During the collective bargaining process in the state government, for higher benefits(pay and insurance and pension) or consessions(lower pay and personally handling their own insurance and retirement), do you know how many of these citizens are at the bargaining table? 0,000,000, now the other side,,the Unions will tell you that the elected officials are at the table representing the people and are acting on their behalf.

This is bunk. Once you are partie to the government you are debating for the government period, all objectivity is suspect. Would you hire an attorney who works for the doctor who negligently botched an operation on your wife or daughter? Or would you go out and seek representation where you are 100% certain that the person harbors no hint of bias? 100% Objective!

When the citizens are allowed to send their own elected representative to sit on behalf of the citizens(the payers) then there may be some semblence of collective bargaining with the unions(the payees).

The most basic law principle explains that you cannot have real debate when both sides are on the same team. Here is an example.
Pro football is going through the same thing right now.. Would the owners allow someone friendly or who works for the players union sit on the owners side of the table and then to report back later as things unfolded? No, the owners at least one of them a majority appointed representative of the owners along with legal will sit on the owner's side and the players will bring their people and sit on their side of the table. Now an honest debate can ensue. Because there is no hint of conflict of interest, both sides can feel a sense of having the best shot for their side and argue with confidence and passion.
This basic exercise is done everyday in court with Voi dire, the questioning of potential jurors, many attorney's will argue for change of venue on hints of bias,,they want a virgin playing field, don't we deserve that, isnt it part of our law system?
Sending a government official to bargain against government workers is suspect. The citizens must send their own rep and be allowed to follow the negotiation, all the while, in order to send in questions and requests. Then you can have an honest debate.

Posted by: patrickomalleyjr | March 10, 2011 1:20 PM | Report abuse

This article is totally ludicrous.

The cowardly Senate Dems ran away like little schoolgirls from a spider simply because they couldn't have their way. They obviously have no respect for the democratic process.

As Obama arrogantly told Republicans "Elections have consequences. I won". Last November, the voters in Wisconsin duly elected a GOP Governor and majorities in the legislature. As was demonstrated in last year's battle in DC over ObamaCare, the minority does not get to call the shots. That's the way our system works.

Posted by: samadams25 | March 10, 2011 1:29 PM | Report abuse

All the gasbags in the unions are just delaying the inevitable: ending the spending.

The pigs have put there snouts in the trough and we are now hip to the game of collective bargaining with the people they elect.

Wave buh bye, Public Sector Unions.

Posted by: RightyatBat | March 10, 2011 1:43 PM | Report abuse

It's interesting to note that no liberal news outlets such as the WaPo are covering the death threats that are being made by our leftist fellow citizens. You know, the ones who want to lecture us on "civility"? The same ones who want to lecture us on what democracy is, as their representatives go into hiding to halt votes, and their mobs of union thugs assault TEA Party protestors?

I'm ashamed to call these people my fellow citizens.

Posted by: pijacobsen | March 10, 2011 2:07 PM | Report abuse

The Rev'rund Jesse Jackson is calling for a rebellion. What a tool.

Posted by: dfox71 | March 10, 2011 2:31 PM | Report abuse

leftist/unionist delusions is comical indeed! GOP "shenanigans"??? Doesn't this hack mean fleeing dem shenanigans? Has he forgotten the obamacare dem shenanigans to shove an illegitimate monstrosity down Americans' throats through their one-party drunk-on-power rule??? Has he forgotten the ceaseless illegal maneuvers and the secret corrupt deals to push this ruination on Americans??? Aren't they, the progressives themselves, paying the ultimate price today for that monstrous debacle which will soon be declared UNCONSTITUTIONAL by the SC???

AND, speaking of shenanigans, WHERE the hell is that guy called the president of the United States of America and his sec. of dhs, napolitano, investigating the death threats against government officials by the unionist/progressive domestic terrorists???

The only thing this community agitator has ever brought to this country is dithering obfuscation against her foreign enemies and mayhem and strife and division and WAR here at home, throwing American against American. And WHO, pray tell, is paying the ultimate price for the delusional grandiosity and folly of this community agitator and his "fundamental transformation" of the greatest country in the history of the world!???

Shame shame shame shame shame shame shame ...

Posted by: pouran-doukht | March 10, 2011 2:32 PM | Report abuse

"A complete falsehood." How about a lie?
"Direct contradiction." Is there an indirect contradiction?
"This is exactly the kind of conduct that justifies recalls." Exactly? No other conduct conduct justifies recalls?

Posted by: Manbook17 | March 10, 2011 2:39 PM | Report abuse

From the article: "Wisconsin unions agreed early on to the fiscal concessions Walker demanded, on the condition that he preserve their bargaining rights."

Early on relative to what? The senators were already out of state for a week before this concession was made. If collective bargaining remained in place for benefits and retirements how long before those concessions are rolled back?

Here is a clue for some of you when you don't have enough votes you loose. Got that? Nobody has to negotiate with you when they have the votes to pass their bills without you, understand?

Just like FDR I cannot see public sector unions as anything but a giant conflict of interest. It time to stop hosing the taxpayer. And before I hear it--- No public service employees are not taxpayers they are tax consumers. Just because they may return some of those tax dollars as taxes does not make them taxpayers.

Posted by: mogar | March 10, 2011 2:42 PM | Report abuse

As someone famous once said, "I won"

and "elections have consequences"

Guess what... the majority of the taxpayers have woken up to the greed and corruption of the public sector unions - your days are numbered.

Posted by: TxGirl | March 10, 2011 2:46 PM | Report abuse

On the contrary, all this did is expose the fact many of us recognized at the outset: Walker and the Republicans held all the cards on this issue, and it was up to Democrats to compromise. They didn't, and now the battle lines have been re-drawn. Like the Germans on the Eastern Front, Democrats have gone from laying siege to Stalingrad, to defending Berlin at the Elbe. The rest is a "tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

Posted by: INTJ | March 10, 2011 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Yada, yada, yada. Is Obama anti-union because he calls for a freeze on federal wages without consulting the worker? FDR himself said unions have no place in public service. The Democratic senator sfleeing from thier sworn duty is democratic but the Republicans, who won in an election are anti-democratic? lol, lol, lol

Posted by: dpn1031 | March 10, 2011 3:14 PM | Report abuse

The CONservatives should be very worried about this, because the conversation can now switch from budget cutting and the rights of workers, to taxation and the amount or lack of taxes paid by large corporations and the billionaire-elites.
With corporate tax rates at 35% and as an example GE paying a tax of 4.5%, last year, it seems that taxation of the "uber-class" needs to be on the table. If elites paid their "fair share" of taxes, minus all the loopholes, the fiscal crisis of the federal government and the states would be manageable if not solved.
So let's talk about taxes and tax collection instead.

Posted by: kladinvt | March 10, 2011 3:19 PM | Report abuse

They passed a stand alone bill. It's pretty strait forward. But you can describe it as a "trick" and a "stunt" and "shenanigans" and "drastic" to fool yourself and gullible readers if you like. The big question is why didn't they do this two or three weeks ago.

Posted by: Truthteller12 | March 10, 2011 4:02 PM | Report abuse

In 2000 I left the Democratic party aghast at what Democrats appeared to be willing to do to win the presidency. In the eleven years since, I have watched the party in bewilderment as it has become more and more divorced from fair play and ethical behavior.

I watched in disgust as they declared war on a 17-year-old girl in a difficult situation and smeared her intimate, personal business all over national news.

The topper was the underhanded way they passed Obamacare... in the dead of the night... in a closed room. Fancy Nancy Pelosi's statement to the effect that they had to pass the bill in order for us to know what was in it is proof of their shady dealings.

Now, as I read through the posts here, describing the Wisconsin Republicans in terms such as 'underhanded', 'illegal', 'stealth attack', etc., etc., etc.; I'm boggled at the level of the double standard displayed by Dems/liberals on this thread, as well as by the party itself.

My loyalties are with neither party, as I believe our political process is hopelessly corrupt. However, Republicans seem to me to be a tad bit more ethical than Democrats. A skosh less delusional. A scintilla more reliable. And certainly much more assiduous in protecting the homeland.

Posted by: royalsan1 | March 10, 2011 4:04 PM | Report abuse

14 Dems running away to IL like teenagers is to be respected? Remember when Obama said "I won"? The Republicans won across the board in WI. Dem's ran away instead of sticking it out. Typical...

I don't have much respect for either political party, but as royalsan1 says: the Republicans are "a little less delusional." And some such as Gov's Walker, Christie, Scott, and Senator Rand Paul, Rep Ryan are at least showing signs of pushing reforms that MAY eventually right the ship.

Almost encouraging enough to dismiss $4 gas prices that elitist urban ant-farm-dwellers think is still too cheap and do everything they can to stifle the supply of, or to tax it even more.

I was starting to miss the humor of Keith Olbermann's absurd disconnected-from-reality rants until I read this.

Public unions want to have mass protests thinking they can win simply because of the left-bias media saturation they enjoy? Just wait until this summer when those of us who have to work for a living can make it to the Tea Party's counter-protests.

Public sector unions have already put themselves to shame and exposed themselves to the public as the spoiled children they really are. Really want more attention? Go for it.

I wish the Dem's were not quite so incredibly foolish and arrogant as to actually think that most of the public believes the nonsensical portrayals that were attempted regarding the WI union temper tantrums.

WI (to borrow a phrase) was a great sound and fury signifying nothing. Conditions there for public employees are still cushy, so let them cry it off.

This disregard and disconnectedness with the majority of the public will cost the Dem even more next election than in the last. I would just as soon have a divided government to some extent, but if the Democratic party is as far off the rails in 2012 as now, they are going to lose so bad there will be a wailing throughout the media even worse than it is now.

But, the Republicans are really going to have to shoot themselves in the foot so many times between now and then, NOT to overwhelm the Senate in 2012 too and Obama looks really indecisive too.

Protests, shmotests. No one is impressed by all the noise any more. Sick of them, If those of us who are the usually silent majority need to get out there with you lefty wackos, we can though that is really not our cup of tea:)

Do you really expect the 20% working for government deserves pity for the minimal reverses compared to what the rest of us have had to live with for the last 30 years?

You are so kidding yourself. It is done, we are globalized now and both the Republicans and Democrats pushed that. So gov't workers will need to adjust to declining earnings just like everyone else.

Wish you were here in MN so we could also talk about this global warming fraud over an afternoon of shoveling snow that is higher than since the 1970's... (that was when everyone's underwear was in a bundle about global cooling, if you recall...) Cheers!

Posted by: brushwolf1 | March 10, 2011 5:21 PM | Report abuse

As Yogi Berra once said: This is not rocket surgery.

WI public union employees: Now you have to ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTE to your own benefits and PENSIONS. THE HORROR OF IT!

NOW the state will NOT deduct dues, dues are optonal and union membership is optional. THIS IS WHAT HITLER DID!

Gee, think the NON union working people of WI are upset that MAYBE less of THEIR tax dollar is going to provide you a PENSION and LIFE TIME BENEFITS?

SURVEY SAYS: NOOOOOOOOOO

Posted by: JohnLeeHooker1 | March 10, 2011 5:40 PM | Report abuse

The Republicans had to pass the bill so we could see what's in it. Once the Democrats they will learn to like it. Or not. Whatever.

Posted by: pijacobsen | March 10, 2011 6:09 PM | Report abuse

I still have a sour feeling in my stomach from living in California during the recall of Governor Gray Davis by the Republican machine. His recall was nothing more than their ability to exploit the financial situation at the time in order to replace him with another "Ronald Reagan".

I sincerely hope it is time for pay back, only this time, it will be for a more noble cause.

Posted by: seventhrama | March 10, 2011 7:26 PM | Report abuse

This protest is coming from the ground up. If you look at video of the protesters you see every day working Wisconsinites of all shapes and backgrounds. It truly is a "worker revolt" including both blue collar and white collar elements.

Walker isn't politically smart enough to execute the real GOP strategy: Weaken public unions to de-fund the Dems and then continue to weaken state and local governments to the point where the GOP can sell off state assets to their corporate cronies.

Walker got the GOP strategy memo (written on Koch Industries letterhead) and decided to cut and paste it into a bill without any political finesse. In short, he is incompetent.


Posted by: NeuronFlash | March 10, 2011 7:40 PM | Report abuse

Shenanigans??? The plain and simple fact is that the Wi GOP beat the Dems at their OWN game.

It is delusion to imply that "grass roots anger" is best illustrated by a bunch of yahoos with nothing better to do, orchestrated by union thugs to rant and scream at the capitol. It is "grass roots anger" that is supporting Walker.

As Walter Russel Meade notes, "the Old One Horse Shay" known as the "blue model" is in the midst of catastrophic collapse - and for good reason.

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2011/03/07/paul-krugman-gets-it-half-right/

Posted by: IaHawkeye | March 10, 2011 8:57 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: seventhrama | March 10, 2011 7:26 PM

"I still have a sour feeling in my stomach from living in California during the recall of Governor Gray Davis by the Republican machine. His recall was nothing more than their ability to exploit the financial situation at the time in order to replace him with another "Ronald Reagan"."

Yup. Nothing to do with the fact that he bankrupted California, eh? Which was probably the reason that prompted you to leave. Which brings us to the present request: please go back to California and live in the mess you made. Parasitic worms like you are swarming the country as the sinking ship you and your ilk have created their disappears beneath the fiscal waves. Go back to California, son. When you'ved cleaned it up, then you may move out.

Posted by: pijacobsen | March 10, 2011 9:36 PM | Report abuse

This is the dumbest logic I have ever heard. The Republicans are the ones with their hands dirty because they legally severed a bill and passed it according to Wisconsin law, but the Democrats are totally principled because they fled the state and prevented the democratic process from otherwise taking its course?

By the way, this was the same tactic that was used to pass Obamacare. At least have some intellectual honesty and try to avoid self-serving hypocrisy.

Posted by: jonathantorrens425 | March 10, 2011 10:31 PM | Report abuse

Government unions are nothing but a money laundering operation for the Democrat party. Get rid of them.

Posted by: doctorfixit | March 11, 2011 12:53 AM | Report abuse

Post a Comment

We encourage users to analyze, comment on and even challenge washingtonpost.com's articles, blogs, reviews and multimedia features.

User reviews and comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate comments or material will be removed from the site. Additionally, entries that are unsigned or contain "signatures" by someone other than the actual author will be removed. Finally, we will take steps to block users who violate any of our posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies or any other policies governing this site. Please review the full rules governing commentaries and discussions.




characters remaining

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2011 The Washington Post Company