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Posted at 6:24 PM ET, 03/ 2/2011

Happy Hour Roundup

By Greg Sargent

* Joe Klein calls on his media colleagues to demand all the 2012 GOP hopefuls take a position on Obama's heritage, and to mercilessly hound them out of town if they equivocate.

* Mike Huckabee is now claiming that Obama has a worldview shaped by "madrassas," proving once again that his insistence that he "misspoke" about Obama and Kenya is thoroughly irrelevent to the larger game plan here.

* Also: Huckabee admits that the notion that Obama was born in the United States is "not a popular position with conservatives."

* This'll work: HuffPo reports that Wisconsin Repubicans are trying to hijack the staffs of missing senate Dems to force them to return to the capitol.

* This'll work, too: Wisconsin Republicans have voted to fine missing Dems $100 per day until they return.

* But one fugitive Dem tells Eric Kleefeld that the threat isn't even making Dems think twice about staying away.

* Ben Smith reports that the new ad featuring ordinary Wisconsinites making the case against Governor Walker has raised over $100,000 in five hours.

* Wisconsin Republicans vow to stand firm in the fact of the Dems' new recall drive. It will be interesting to see if their resolve holds.

* Senate Dems formally agreed today to the House GOP's two-week funding of the government at cut rates. Now comes the hard party: Reaching a long-term deal.

* The question now is whether liberals like Dick Durbin, who passionately opposes many of the cuts, can get the rest of the Dem caucus to stand firm or whether "centrists" will carry the day.

* MoveOn launches a new ad on national cable pressuring Senate Dems not to cave to GOP cuts:

* Meanwhile, a Tea Party leader instructs House GOPers not to compromise on spending to avert a shutdown:

"I think there are a lot of people who would be happy to see the government shutdown for a few days."

Uh, okay. Gives you a sense of what the GOP has to deal with on their side...

* Ezra Klein says Obama's proposal to let states opt out of the health law was all about calling conservatives' bluff: "If the Affordable Care Act is so bad, then show us that you can do better."

Which, Ezra says, they can't.

* And liberal hero Tom Perriello could mount a serious challenge to George Allen for Jim Webb's seat. A Senate race for the ages!

What else is happening?

By Greg Sargent  | March 2, 2011; 6:24 PM ET
Categories:  Happy Hour Roundup, House GOPers, Labor, Senate Dems, Tea Party, budget  
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Comments

Ohio Senate passes anti-union bill after booting two committee chairs: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/03/with-one-vote-margin-ohio-state-senate-passes-sb-5.php?ref=fpa

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | March 2, 2011 6:28 PM | Report abuse

http://eatingarounddc.blogspot.com/2011/03/let-good-times-roll-mardi-gras-in-dc.html

For all the Washingtonians here.

off to my first parade this year!

Posted by: DDAWD | March 2, 2011 6:29 PM | Report abuse

Where's that "ready to go" jobs bill, Boehner?

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | March 2, 2011 6:30 PM | Report abuse

Folks up North get two thumbs up from the sane portion of their neighbors down South;http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x538191

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | March 2, 2011 6:37 PM | Report abuse

Chuck,

The OH anti-union bill is more "anti-union" than one would expect. It also bans gay marriage and civil unions.

"In Ohio's legislation to curtail public sector union collective bargaining rights - just passed by the Senate - the following passage exists:

Sec. 3101.01 of S.B. 5: ... A marriage may only be entered into by one man and one woman. Any marriage between persons of the same sex is against the strong public policy of this state. Any marriage between persons of the same sex shall have no legal force or effect in this state and, if attempted to be entered into in this state, is void ab initio and shall not be recognized by this state. The recognition or extension by the state of the specific statutory benefits of a legal marriage to non-marital relationships between persons of the same sex or different sexes is against the strong public policy of this state. Any public act, record or judicial proceeding of this state, as defined in section 9.82 of the Revised Code, that extends the specific statutory benefits of legal marriage to non-marital relationships between persons of the same sex or different sexes is void."

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2011/03/just-balancing-the-budget.html

Posted by: suekzoo1 | March 2, 2011 6:38 PM | Report abuse

"* The question now is whether liberals like Dick Durbin, who passionately opposes many of the cuts, can get the rest of the Dem caucus to stand firm or whether "centrists" will carry the day."

Wow! What a great day for comments!

I get that Senator Durbin doesn't want the cuts. I also get that he thinks government should be more involved in improving peoples lives. What I don't get is why he and the Demcoratic leadership don't campaign on that and how they would fund it. It's almost as if they think a position like that wouldn't be popular.

Thanks for all the hard work everybody!

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 2, 2011 6:40 PM | Report abuse

@sue and 12bar:

"Senate Democrats conceded Tuesday that House Republicans won round one of the budget fight, but they are vowing a bigger battle later this month."

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/146915-senate-democrats-acknowledge-defeat-but-say-theyre-going-to-win-next-round

Na na na na...

Posted by: sbj3 | March 2, 2011 6:43 PM | Report abuse

@sue-

So much for having a referendum on that by the voters, eh?

There can be little doubt that the Right is going for the jugular and I hope they overplay their hand bigtime.

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | March 2, 2011 6:45 PM | Report abuse

I assume Obama will veto any spending cuts bill that will cost the US 700,000 jobs.

Mr. Boehner where are the jobs?

Hint: It's not like scoring in golf where you are supposed to keep it low.

Posted by: BGinCHI | March 2, 2011 6:47 PM | Report abuse

Hi all!

I guess being the largest oil company contributor to Barry's campaign really pays off, hunh? Gets them the first Gulf drilling permit. Or maybe it's just a coincidence.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/03/01/gulf-oil-permit-idUKN0117268320110301

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 2, 2011 6:47 PM | Report abuse

I'm an early-40s white guy and I will damn sure not be acting this way in 10+ years. Why? Because I respect difference, and I admire people who struggle against racism, sexism, and all the other discriminatory practices that drag this culture down.

If you ain't part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Posted by: BGinCHI | March 2, 2011 4:44 PM
=========================================

Well, now, aren't you and filmnoia quite the ones? Give yourselves a big ole pat on the back.

Posted by: Brigade | March 2, 2011 7:08 PM | Report abuse

"Ohio Senate approves bill that weakens public employee union negotiating rights"

By Amy Gardner and Michael A. Fletcher
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, March 2, 2011; 5:00 PM

"COLUMBUS, Ohio - The Ohio Senate approved a bill on Wednesday that would weaken the powers of public workers unions to negotiate their contracts. The vote came as union supporters protested the measure for a second day on the grounds of the state capitol in Columbus.

"The GOP-sponsored bill passed the Senate by a vote of just 17-16, with six Republicans voting against it. As the roll call finished, dozens of union supporters in the Senate gallery chanted "Shame! Shame! Shame!" Screeches and shouts echoed down the corridors of the Statehouse, where hundreds of opponents of the bill had gathered for the day's events.

"The bill next goes to the House, where it is expected to pass.

"It includes changes unveiled by its Republican authors earlier this week that reinstate collective-bargaining powers for the state's more than 300,000 firefighters, police officers, teachers and other public workers, but only on the issues of wages, hours and certain terms and conditions.

"But the measure also extends a prohibition on strikes to apply to teachers. And it bans binding arbitration, giving the ultimate power to settle contract disputes with elected bodies. In the case of a city, that power would fall to the city council, and in the case of state contracts, it would fall to the General Assembly."
======================================

While you babble about Huckabee, Mau Mau, and the Wisconsin fleebaggers, positive things are happening in the country.

Posted by: Brigade | March 2, 2011 7:17 PM | Report abuse

Mr. Boehner where are the jobs?

Hint: It's not like scoring in golf where you are supposed to keep it low.

Posted by: BGinCHI | March 2, 2011 6:47 PM
========================================

Why don't you ask Obama? This is his third year in office; the first two years featured huge Democratic majorities in both houses of Congress. He got the stimulus he said we needed. So where are the jobs? What happened to the summer of recovery? You might want to stop licking his boots and hold him accountable. Why do you think Dems got a butt-kicking in November?

Posted by: Brigade | March 2, 2011 7:22 PM | Report abuse

This makes me suspect that many of our lefty friends here have been regular marijuana users in the past.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/marijuana-precedes-psychosis/story?id=13031478

Posted by: ScottC3 | March 2, 2011 7:51 PM | Report abuse

"* Also: Huckabee admits that the notion that Obama was born in the United States is "not a popular position with conservatives.""

So now the location of one's birth is a matter of political opinion.

Truth now being a matter of who has the most votes. (As long as those votes are Republican)

Huck has now thoroughly established his reputation for caring about what is truth.

Posted by: ceflynline | March 2, 2011 8:02 PM | Report abuse

Wow, Dems are desperate to distract and divide and generate noise.

Joe Klein is a talentless buffoon. Isn't that all that needs to be said about that?

Posted by: quarterback1 | March 2, 2011 8:19 PM | Report abuse

No, Ezra, it isn't about calling anyone's bluff. It is about cynical political posturing. Obama still purports to dictate the conditions to be satisfied.

Here's something better: repeal it. Not the federal government's business.

Posted by: quarterback1 | March 2, 2011 8:26 PM | Report abuse

No, quarterback1, I agree with you at least.

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 2, 2011 8:28 PM | Report abuse

"Not the federal government's business.

Posted by: quarterback1"

Um, it clearly is.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 2, 2011 10:09 PM | Report abuse

At least two (2) federal courts have concluded that the mandate is NOT the fed's business.

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 2, 2011 10:24 PM | Report abuse

"Um, it clearly is."

Very persuasive.

Posted by: quarterback1 | March 2, 2011 10:31 PM | Report abuse

Watching Ed Shultz, how entertaining.

He just misrepresented Jim Demint as having said unions have no place in America, and used his own misrepresentation to put Demint in company of about 15 totalitarian and authoritarian regimes. Imagine that. I turn on MSNBC and the first thing I hear is a flagrant lie and comparison of a hated GOP rep to Stalin, Hitler, etc.

Then he went on with Dem talking points about unions, one of which was that union members make less than their nonunion counterparts.

Now just think about that one.

Posted by: quarterback1 | March 2, 2011 10:36 PM | Report abuse

Why join / stay in a union if all they can do is get you LESS pay and benefits?!

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 2, 2011 10:45 PM | Report abuse

A little puzzling. His source was the Center for Budget Priorities. Their propaganda must be getting a little sloppy.

Posted by: quarterback1 | March 2, 2011 10:53 PM | Report abuse

For the Republicans who can allow only that the word applies to colored people running down the street carrying items they did not buy...this is just one more example, how looting really works.

No I don't care whether someone did something in this case, I am saying looting happens without smashed store fronts.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/02/a-conspiracy-with-a-silver-lining/?hp

"Protecting the sanctity of the markets..."

Sanctity. I can't believe he said that. When I was a boy, I thought that word really meant something, but I guess hindsight is 20:15.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 2, 2011 10:54 PM | Report abuse

Michael Moore preaches the Gospel of Plumline.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/03/02/moore_on_wealthy_peoples_money_thats_not_theirs_thats_a_national_resource_its_ours.html

Posted by: quarterback1 | March 2, 2011 11:01 PM | Report abuse

""Um, it clearly is."

Very persuasive.

Posted by: quarterback1"

Haha, as if you listen to arguments.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 2, 2011 11:03 PM | Report abuse

"Parsing through the publicly filed footnotes of derivative trades is no easy task."

Oh but this is the free market, it must be venerated. It is sacred.
It is not in the Constitution, not in the Bible, but it is in your mind...the people who operate the sacred free markets are preserving your freedom...free worship, free market...free, that sounds so good, I like free.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 2, 2011 11:04 PM | Report abuse

Four threads without the four garbage posters and they all show up on this one.

Hey Scott: it's said that a libertarian is just a Republican who smokes pot. You're a libertarian and, I suspect, a clinical sociopath.

Do you have a medical script or do you buy it from some teenager in a parking lot?

This liberal doesn't even drink alcohol.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 2, 2011 11:06 PM | Report abuse

He just misrepresented Jim Demint as having said unions have no place in America

==

Let's seeva link to Brillohead DeMint supporting labor organization.

(crickets)

Posted by: caothien9 | March 2, 2011 11:12 PM | Report abuse

"http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/marijuana-precedes-psychosis/story?id=13031478

Posted by: ScottC3"

OMG, Scott, you are soooooo into studies, hahaha.

At least psychotics realize that they probably shouldn't listen to the voice or voices in their heads. More than you can say about the voices you hear on TV.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 2, 2011 11:18 PM | Report abuse

Michael Moore preaches the Gospel of Plumline.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/03/02/moore_on_wealthy_peoples_money_thats_not_theirs_thats_a_national_resource_its_ours.html

==

So what's your argument? "they earned it?" Nobody "earns" tens of billions of dollars.

The wealthy are able to make their fortunes because America supplied the educated workforce, the infrastructure to support commerce, and the social stability to enable it. They can damn well pay their dues.

Don't like it? Move somewhere else.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 2, 2011 11:18 PM | Report abuse

We'll leave the emigrating to idiots like you.

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 2, 2011 11:26 PM | Report abuse

Cao, I'm pretty sure Moore was talking about the millionaire teachers who are sucking the country dry.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 2, 2011 11:27 PM | Report abuse

bahahahahahahahahaha, Wisconsin Republicans are trying to ban prank calls????

This is great. I think we've found our South Carolina of the north.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 2, 2011 11:36 PM | Report abuse

"Hey Scott: it's said that a libertarian is just a Republican who smokes pot. You're a libertarian and, I suspect, a clinical sociopath."

Hi cao! Hope all is well with you. I'm curious. Just the other day, you wrote a comment to Scott and in it you related that you hoped he would die in a ditch. Now, you're asking him a question in relation to a comment he wrote, and then writing that you suspect he's a sociopath. Why, if you obviously dislike him, are you still reading his comments? Why are you asking him questions? Are all commenter's who disagree with you sociopaths who should die in a ditch? If not, at what point do you think that they should die in a ditch or are a sociopath, or both? Also, are you writing that you think Scott is a sociopath because you think he's a libertarian, or in addition to being a libertarian. Finally, why do you feel it necessary to write a comment to Scott claiming he's a sociopath? Is it important to you that others agree with you?

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 2, 2011 11:41 PM | Report abuse

shrink,

I've seen plenty of what you can call financial looting, closer than most people see it. Heck, I once had to secure and search the files of a stock broker whose large and "successful" client portfolio was a giant ponzi scheme, complete with files full of forged correspondence, signature cutouts, you name it. (It was actually almost incomprehensible how much work must have gone into maintaining the scheme in all its sprawling detail -- surely, one thought, you could actually run a legitimate brokerage business with the same or less work?)

But having seen plenty of real financial "looting" doesn't make me see it everywhere. Maybe that's the difference.

Btw, the innuendo of racism is low.

Posted by: quarterback1 | March 2, 2011 11:51 PM | Report abuse

DDAWD, it would be easy to just change Wisconsin law to prohibit taping conversations unless all parties consent.

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 3, 2011 12:01 AM | Report abuse

"Btw, the innuendo of racism is low.

Posted by: quarterback1"

Awww, as a member of the colored community, let me express my apologies for this innuendo. It is my sincerest hope that your racism is allowed to continue unfettered by accusations that you are doing the things you are doing.

Anyways, cheer up. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Westboro Church. Now they can picket the funerals of gay soldiers all they want! Happy days are here!

But if you think I'm going too far with my criticism, then sue me. I mean really. With the Roberts Court, you probably have a 75% chance of getting criticism of racism and homophobia banned.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 3, 2011 12:36 AM | Report abuse

Thank God for the First Amendment!

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 3, 2011 12:40 AM | Report abuse

Troll, Scott writes like a sociopath, and since he's a libertarian it's not at all far fetched. He spends an awful lot of posts trying to defend his heartlessness.

The rest of your questions are baiting I choose to ignore.

I tried to engage with Scott in a civil manner and ended up with him trying to get me to chase my tail with a lot of fluff about underlying principles. Moving a conversation from the specific to the general is a big red flag and when I was unwilling to do so he started calling me names.

Two can play.

As for "dying in a ditch," the guy is derisive and contemptuous of people helping each other and being kind to each other and insists that anyone who claims to savor these virtues is posturing. My comment, as amply clarified many times since, is that he should reap what he sows and receive no help nor kindness from anyone.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 3, 2011 1:35 AM | Report abuse

Why, if you obviously dislike him, are you still reading his comments?

==

Why do any of you conservatives read liberals' comments? And vice versa? This is an awesomely stupid question, since the only alternative would be the "echo chamber" that class clown Brigade is always pissing about.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 3, 2011 1:39 AM | Report abuse

Oh but this is the free market, it must be venerated. It is sacred.
It is not in the Constitution, not in the Bible,

==

No, economics and free markets were created in the Big Bang. They're the foundation of the universe.

Gluons are quarks' exercising of fiduciary responsibility to shareholders.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 3, 2011 1:42 AM | Report abuse

But if you think I'm going too far with my criticism, then sue me. I mean really. With the Roberts Court, you probably have a 75% chance of getting criticism of racism and homophobia banned.

==

First witness: Chris Cillizza

Posted by: caothien9 | March 3, 2011 2:04 AM | Report abuse

Anyways, cheer up. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Westboro Church. Now they can picket the funerals of gay soldiers all they want! Happy days are here!

==

IINM they picket any and all military funerals, not just those of gay soldiers.

What a grotesque interpretation of free speech. It seems like fetishists of the Constitution are not only exceedingly dishonest but cross the line into autism when it comes to taking things literally.

The point of the First Amendment was to allow criticism of the government and of public officials without being arrested for sedition. Period. It was not intended as a defense of tastelessness, slander or libel, false advertising, nor political dishonesty. And the irony is that the original intent is routinely violated while the First protects some fundamentalist rabble disrupting the mourning of military families.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 3, 2011 2:14 AM | Report abuse

We'll leave the emigrating to idiots like you.

==

Hahahah love the "we"

As if anyone would lower himself to letting a moron like you speak for him.

And I have unimpeachable moral authority to advise others to leave if they don't like it, since I actually did. You can stay and enjoy the decline. t least you'll have the satisfaction of liberals' discomfiture to salve the pain of your own hunger and homelessness.

Pity you weren't a Jew in the Warsaw Ghetto. You would have loved snitching on the resistance.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 3, 2011 2:58 AM | Report abuse

@qb @ 10:36 pm-


Yes, Union members do make less, depending on how you break that down. You wanna get *into* that...?

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | March 3, 2011 4:06 AM | Report abuse

"The OH anti-union bill is more "anti-union" than one would expect. It also bans gay marriage and civil unions."

Sully should have done a little research before shooting off his mouth. The language is existing Ohio law. In fact, the Ohio constitution bans ssm.

Posted by: quarterback1 | March 3, 2011 6:01 AM | Report abuse

With Tucson in mind, I find Huckabee's continued questioning of Obama's "American-ness" really dangerous and irresponsible. There are more Gerald Loughners out there, and talk like this could set one of them off.

Huckabee evidently feels that maintaining his street value to Rupert Murdoch is all that matters.

Posted by: rhallnj | March 3, 2011 6:04 AM | Report abuse

"You wanna get *into* that...?"

Not particularly. In general, I trust everything the CBP says to be untrue. There are lies, damn lies, and CBP statistics.

But in this case its (and Ed's and your) argument completely contradicts the rationale for unions' existence. So you lose either way. That's fine with me.

Posted by: quarterback1 | March 3, 2011 6:05 AM | Report abuse

"Awww, as a member of the colored community, let me express my apologies for this innuendo. It is my sincerest hope that your racism is allowed to continue unfettered by accusations that you are doing the things you are doing."

What things are those?

"Anyways, cheer up. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Westboro Church. Now they can picket the funerals of gay soldiers all they want! Happy days are here!"

Actually, the decision isn't about picketing funerals of gay soldiers, but then when have you ever had any idea what you were talking about.

"With the Roberts Court, you probably have a 75% chance of getting criticism of racism and homophobia banned."

I'm going to go out on a limb and declare this the dumbest comment of the year, albeit it is only early March. Carry on with your permanet hate- and rage-fest.

Posted by: quarterback1 | March 3, 2011 6:13 AM | Report abuse

For the Republicans who can allow only that the word applies to colored people running down the street carrying items they did not buy...this is just one more example, how looting really works . . .

Posted by: shrink2 | March 2, 2011 10:54 PM
=======================================

It's "people of color", not "colored people." Must keep up to date on your P.C. if you don't wish to offend.

Posted by: Brigade | March 3, 2011 6:30 AM | Report abuse

It is not in the Constitution, not in the Bible, but it is in your mind...the people who operate the sacred free markets are preserving your freedom...free worship, free market...free, that sounds so good, I like free.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 2, 2011 11:04 PM
========================================

To many liberals, everything is free. Just let the Koch brothers pay for it.

Posted by: Brigade | March 3, 2011 6:33 AM | Report abuse

Four threads without the four garbage posters and they all show up on this one.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 2, 2011 11:06 PM
========================================

Change your hours. With the exception of Skip and clawrence, this place was moonbat central during the day. You probably have them blocked, so it would have been just another echo chamber.

Posted by: Brigade | March 3, 2011 6:36 AM | Report abuse

They can damn well pay their dues.

Don't like it? Move somewhere else.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 2, 2011 11:18 PM
--------------------------------------

Their dues? Is that anything like their fair share?

Posted by: Brigade | March 3, 2011 6:38 AM | Report abuse

bahahahahahahahahaha, Wisconsin Republicans are trying to ban prank calls????

This is great. I think we've found our South Carolina of the north.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 2, 2011 11:36 PM
========================================

Maybe Feingold should run for office in South Carolina. Besides, shrink's dad campaigned for someone . . . from Wisconsin was it?

Posted by: Brigade | March 3, 2011 6:41 AM | Report abuse

Protest Funeral March to Put an End to Gov. Walker's Attacks on the People of Wisconsin - March 3rd!

http://www.prwatch.org/cmd_event/2011/03/10243/funeral-march-stop-walkers-attacks-wisconsin

Posted by: wdsoulplane | March 3, 2011 6:44 AM | Report abuse

And the irony is that the original intent is routinely violated while the First protects some fundamentalist rabble disrupting the mourning of military families.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 3, 2011 2:14 AM
==========================================

And the irony is that Alito was the lone dissenter. Some liberal, that guy.

Posted by: Brigade | March 3, 2011 6:45 AM | Report abuse

Yes, Union members do make less, depending on how you break that down. You wanna get *into* that...?

Posted by: ChuckinDenton | March 3, 2011 4:06 AM
=======================================

Hahahahahaha. I can imagine how the numbers will turn out if someone like you decides to "break that down."

Posted by: Brigade | March 3, 2011 6:47 AM | Report abuse

Hey!

I heard there was an Unimpeachable Moral Authority bake-sale going on here this morning!

Proceeds going to straight to Michael Moore's kitchen with matching funds from an anonymous donor in Saigon.

kewl

Posted by: tao9 | March 3, 2011 7:03 AM | Report abuse

"And the irony is that Alito was the lone dissenter. Some liberal, that guy."

Indeed, and all the liberals voted in the homophobes' favor.

You have to pity the moonbats. Their talking points are so hard to manage in the face of reality.

Posted by: quarterback1 | March 3, 2011 7:10 AM | Report abuse

America must escape the doomed path of EU-style decline

Since the Greek financial debacle last year, there has been a great deal of interest across the Atlantic in Europe’s debt crisis and the lessons that can be learned for America. Not least because the United States may face its own Greek-style economic meltdown in a few years time unless it gets its own house in order.

Niles Gardiner

Posted by: battleground51 | March 3, 2011 7:32 AM | Report abuse

cao:

""Scott writes like a sociopath""

And you are trained in the literary ways of sociopaths, eh? You are a card, cao.

As for the rest of your post, well, I can only marvel at your seemingly delibrate mis-reading of nearly everything I have ever said, up to and including simply making things up. But I suppose you have to somehow try and rationalize to yourself the irrational hatred you hold.

Posted by: ScottC3 | March 3, 2011 7:32 AM | Report abuse

Fortunately, there is a new wave of political leaders on Capitol Hill who are serious about cutting spending, reining in the deficit, and challenging the Big Government culture that has dominated Washington in recent years. Principled leaders such as Eric Cantor and Paul Ryan for example, who have pledged to take an axe rather than a scalpel to public expenditure.

Niles Gardiner

Posted by: battleground51 | March 3, 2011 7:35 AM | Report abuse

If any Congressman, Republican or Democrat, is looking for a succinct guide to Europe’s economic and political failure as the EU heads down the path of “ever closer union”, I would strongly recommend my fellow Telegraph blogger Daniel Hannan’s important new pamphlet, “Why America Must Not Follow Europe.”

Niles Gardiner

Barack Obama = Liberal Eurocrat/socialist

Posted by: battleground51 | March 3, 2011 7:40 AM | Report abuse

As he points out, there is a reason why Americans have for decades been richer and more economically productive than their European counterparts – less bureaucracy, lower spending, lower taxes, faster growth, and fewer people out of work. Between 1980 and 1992, excluding the UK, “the EU failed to produce a single net private sector job,” a staggering statistic. In addition, as Dan notes, Western Europe’s share of world GDP fell from 36 percent in 1974 to just 26 percent in 2011, with a projected fall to 15 percent by 2020. In contrast, the US share has remained steady at about 26 percent of world GDP.

Nile Gardiner

Look at Americas, new, UNemployment, normal of 10% under Obama. The pattern begins here.

Posted by: battleground51 | March 3, 2011 7:45 AM | Report abuse

But America’s long-term economic success is under threat from a towering federal debt, increasing government intervention in the economy, and a significantly more expensive and regulated health care system. In short, economic freedom is declining in America as Washington increasingly turns to European-style solutions. As Hannan argues, President Obama’s vision for America is quintessentially European:

Niles Gardiner - The Telegraph

Liberal Democrats have always turned their noses up at American, free enterprise and individual freedoms and fawned over the European system of controlled enterprise and social bureaucracy.

Posted by: battleground51 | March 3, 2011 7:53 AM | Report abuse

Scott, let's see if you can figure out what I mean when I say you remind me of vinyl LPs.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 3, 2011 7:54 AM | Report abuse

My guess is that if anything, Obama would verbalize his ideology using the same vocabulary that Eurocrats do. He would say he wants a fairer America, a more tolerant America, a less arrogant America, a more engaged America. When you prize away the cliché, what these phrases amount to are higher taxes, less patriotism, a bigger role for state bureaucracies, and a transfer of sovereignty to global institutions. In other words, President Obama wants to make the U.S. more like the EU.

Exactly correct!

Posted by: battleground51 | March 3, 2011 7:58 AM | Report abuse

Obama is not pursuing a set of random initiatives lashed arbitrarily together but a program of comprehensive Europeanization: European health care, European welfare, European carbon taxes, European day care, European college education, even a European foreign policy, based engagement with supranational technocracies, nuclear disarmament, and a reluctance to deploy forces overseas.

More from Niles Gardiner of The Telegraph

And there is of course a vast difference between the limited government vision of America’s Founding Fathers and the statist EU Constitution, or Lisbon Treaty. As Hannan writes:

The U.S. Constitution, in particular the Bill of Rights, is mainly about the liberty of the individual.
The EU Constitution is mainly about the power of the state. Here is the categorical difference between the two unions, the elemental distinction of which all the other differences are aspects.

Because the U.S. was designed along what we might loosely term Jeffersonian lines, it has tended to have a small government, strong local authorities, a flourishing private sphere, a limited welfare system, relatively low taxes, and skepticism toward global technocracies. The EU, having been conceived around the concept of an ever-closer union, tends the opposite way.

Obama is a statist, Europhilic, cosmopolitan-community organizer, Harvard-Chicagoland, dyed-in-the-wool sociocat.

He should be the Canadian prime minister and not U.S. president. America made a terrible mistake in 2008.

But it's not too late. 2012 is right around the corner.

Posted by: battleground51 | March 3, 2011 8:12 AM | Report abuse

Liberal Democrats have always turned their noses up at American, free enterprise and individual freedoms and fawned over the European system of controlled enterprise and social bureaucracy.


==

Well your precious free enterprise system has produced the greatest concentration of wealth since the 1920s and there is every reason to believe it will have the same effect

Uncontrolled enterprise is functionally indistinguishable from unresisted invasion.. The honor system isn't a very good way to manage trillions of dollars. Controlled economies are mature, uncontrolled ones are passive and lead in one direction, and it isn't a favorable one.

As for individual freedoms, it was your g-droppin' cowboy hero who conducted the greatest assault on them in US history. And, frankly, Americans don't seem to be faring too well with all those beloved individual freedoms. Maybe it's time we started thinking a little more about civic responsibilities.

Next time you get cancer, how a out you check into a nice unregulated hospital.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 3, 2011 8:14 AM | Report abuse

I count six posts fawning lovingly over some economist clown called Niles Gardiner writing in some paper called the Telegtaph. Snarky blog clog. Next time just post a link.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 3, 2011 8:18 AM | Report abuse

Simply put, the steady Europeanisation of the United States is a huge threat to America’s long-term prosperity, international leadership and freedom, and goes against the US tradition of individual liberty. If Americans wish to avoid EU-style decline, they should avoid European-style policies as well as the supranational world view that drives them.

Niles Gardiner of The Telegraph

America is being warned to NOT follow the Euro-weenies off the cliff of national, economic and moral DEcline.

Let's take heed. Let's nip this Obamanation, in the bud, before it grows into an alien monster and consumes us all.

Posted by: battleground51 | March 3, 2011 8:20 AM | Report abuse

cao:

""Scott, let's see if you can...""

Sorry, no interest. I'd rather figure out why it is you think the US should support and arm one group of people but not another, but you've made it clear you'd rather I not.

Posted by: ScottC3 | March 3, 2011 8:21 AM | Report abuse

Wow the prospect of Americs becoming more like Europe is making me lose control of my bladder. Six weeks ofmpaid vacation a year, healthecare as a right, sounds like a living hell.

I need to go lie down and rock back and forth.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 3, 2011 8:25 AM | Report abuse

Barack Hosni Obama = American decline

A formula for national ruin.

I'm sure Sarge Greg and his Obamacrat cronies heartily disagree.

But, noting the Novemeber revolution of 2010, it seems the vast majority of real Americans heartily agree.

There is HOPE, after all.

Posted by: battleground51 | March 3, 2011 8:30 AM | Report abuse

Hey, tao, I have Unimpeachable Moral Authority to tell Michael Moore to shut up and stop preaching covetousness and whiny socialist claptrap. Don't I?

Also that he should lose weight and take a shower.

Posted by: quarterback1 | March 3, 2011 8:30 AM | Report abuse

""Sorry, no interest. I'd rather figure out why it is you think the US should support and arm one group of people but not another, but you've made it clear you'd rather I not.""

It's always about Israel, innit?
.

Posted by: jprestonian | March 3, 2011 8:35 AM | Report abuse

European companies are are moving business out of the EU. Many are even buying American sites being sold off by American companies. They know America is still relatively free compared to the EuroUnion.

And Americans are more productive.

They have not gotten as lazy and dependent as Euro-weenies.......yet!

To Obama's despair!

Posted by: battleground51 | March 3, 2011 8:39 AM | Report abuse

No idea what you're talking about, Scott.

Please be more specific.

(pause)

I know, I know, you'd rather lay the groundwork first by establishing the predicates behind the principles underlying the presumptions beneath the preferences ....

Posted by: caothien9 | March 3, 2011 8:39 AM | Report abuse

No idea what you're talking about, Scott.

Please be more specific.

(pause)

I know, I know, you'd rather lay the groundwork first by establishing the predicates behind the principles underlying the presumptions beneath the preferences ....

Posted by: caothien9 | March 3, 2011 8:41 AM | Report abuse

All, Morning Roundup posted:

http://wapo.st/fh67rC

Posted by: Greg Sargent | March 3, 2011 8:47 AM | Report abuse

Unimpeachable Fact:

Vinyl LP's sound better.

Ask any audio expert.

Posted by: tao9 | March 3, 2011 8:47 AM | Report abuse

Critical to understanding *Westboro* is that the time place and manner restrictions then imposed by the state permitted the demonstration. Some states have since imposed time place and manner restrictions on funeral related demonstrations and the Court expressly was not dealing with whether any such later imposed restrictions were reasonable.

We understand that time place and manner restrictions are reasonably imposed to keep free speech from becoming a yelling match. For examples, we have rules against disrupting classrooms, and rules allowing only one person at a time to speak before the town council. Typically we have rules about reserving the town square and about levels of amplification permitted.

We do not impose rules about the content of "public" speech, particularly speech that is religious and/or political in content. The majority ruled correctly, IMO; the ruling was limited to the funeral - Breyer's concurrence specifically mentions that the opinion only covers the Westboro picketing activity, which addressed matters of "public concern," and not television or internet postings.

As the limits of free expression develop in the case law, we will see localities set more stringent time, place, and manner restrictions on funeral demonstrations until some community overreaches by creating a restriction that does not allow the demonstrators to reach their intended audience. Then that restriction will be slapped down as a prior restraint on free speech.

We do not control for content of public speech. It is protected. This is good.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 3, 2011 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Yeah tao vinyl has "warmth"

AKA "distortion"

And the surface noise and ever increasing degradation added to the authenticity, like tool marks in fine leather.

Yeah, right.

I never even *heard* the tam-tam at the opening of Berg's "Three Pieces for Orchestra" before I got it on CD.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 3, 2011 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Substitute "locality" for "state" in my first paragraph, above, please.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 3, 2011 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Here's the real deal:

It is natural for American leftists to love Obama. They have the same goals. To usher in an era of American decline and weakness, both economically and militarily.

Their EuroUnion sisters are many years ahead of them in bringing Europe down.

They are envious.

I do not know why leftists/liberals/socialists enjoy national decay and impotency. This is a mindset that is too bizarre for normal people to comprehend.

It's like national evolution in reverse.

Driving the strong into states of weakness.

Darwin would be baffled!

Posted by: battleground51 | March 3, 2011 9:12 AM | Report abuse

Mark,

"We do not control for content of public speech. It is protected. This is good."

I skimmed the opinions quickly but haven't made up my mind about this case yet. What I find the most troubling part is the point made by Alito that the demonstration was preceded by a press release and followed by an internet posting explaining the it in terms of a highly personalized attack on this poor family.

These facts, in my mind, raise questions about the "public/private" distinction made by the majority, which ignored the press release entirely and effectively ignored the internet attack on the Snyders.

I do not feel very comfortable with this ruling. I see a legitimate problem in the infliction of emotional distress on private individuals to make a "public" statement against society. I wish the majority had dealt more forthrightly with those facts.

Posted by: quarterback1 | March 3, 2011 11:04 AM | Report abuse

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