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Posted at 10:06 AM ET, 03/ 5/2011

New ad turns up heat on Wisconsin Republicans as Walker's poll numbers sink

By Greg Sargent

Unions are going up with a hard-hitting new ad in Wisconsin, a labor source says, that takes direct aim for the first time at Republican state senators who continue to stand by Governor Walker, even as he sinks in the polls and the unpopularity of his budget repair proposal continues to mount:

The ad, which is paid for by the labor-backed group Greater Wisconsin, is backed by a "significant" buy, the source tells me. The ad is a clear sign that unions will continue ramping up activity even as news reports indicate some senate Republicans may be wavering in their support for Walker.

"Governor Walker's budget is devastating, and so are state senators who blindly follow him," the ad intones. "Tell your state senator to stop selling out the middle class, and stop the Walker budget."

The ad focuses on the impact Walker's budget cuts would have on Wisconsin communities, rather than on the battle over bargaining rights, which reflects a sense among Walker opponents that the budget itself offers an opportunity to broaden the case against the governor and to continue driving up his negatives.

The use of the phrase "Walker budget" reflects the Governor's mounting unpopularity in the state. A Rasmussen poll yesterday found that his disapproval rating has jumped to 57 percent among likely Wisconsin voters. With the drive to recall Republican senators picking up some steam, the ad is meant to put them on notice that sticking by Walker will ensure that they sink right along with him.

By Greg Sargent  | March 5, 2011; 10:06 AM ET
Categories:  Labor  
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Comments

Wow, if Rasmussen has him at 57% disapproval, his real rating is probably in the low 60s. We are talking about Bush territory.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 5, 2011 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Slowly but surely, the cost of nurturing and exploiting right wing rage will become clear to the Republicans. It helped win a House majority and lots state and local elections, but governing isn't an angry act.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 5, 2011 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Walker will do what the Kochs tell him to do no matter how low his approval ratings sink. Getting to the Senators might work, but only if they feel their lobbying careers are endangered once they've been thrown out of office.

Posted by: fishellb | March 5, 2011 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Gee and they had such high hopes for that House majority.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 5, 2011 10:24 AM | Report abuse

"Slowly but surely, the cost of nurturing and exploiting right wing rage will become clear to the Republicans. It helped win a House majority and lots state and local elections, but governing isn't an angry act."

Yeah, Conservatives have been trying to foment middle class civil warfare, but Americans don't like to turn on their brothers. Like me and my brothers. We fight and we argue, but lay a hand on them and we're all coming after you with fury that you can't imagine.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 5, 2011 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Governing is small s socialism in action, building consensus, helping people understand trade offs; something as simple as a 'rainy day fund' is a collective agreement to keep tax money aside for a time when raising taxes would be a bad idea.

There is a good argument for all Presidential candidates having to be ex-two-term-governors, so they have a track record, exactly how did they balance a budget in good times and in bad. That way everyone knows who their friends are so, who they are.

You can stick a fork in this schmuck's political career. He's one and done.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 5, 2011 10:25 AM | Report abuse

But he'll always be welcome at AEI and Heritage, and all he'll have to do is jump up and down on the stage a few times.

Just like Bush, who, after all, at least *tried* to let the investor caste get its mitts on Social Security.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 5, 2011 10:33 AM | Report abuse

"Governing isn't an angry act."

shrink, you are sounding a little profound this morning. This is a message I'd like to hear woven into the conversation at every political level from local to national. Even international. There's plenty of room to be angry in the process. But governing itself has to have a sensible sobriety at its core in order to be truly effective. And fair.

Posted by: AllButCertain | March 5, 2011 10:36 AM | Report abuse

One item in Gov. Kochdaffi of Wisconsin's proposed budget that is not getting enough attention.


While he is slashing state funding to public schools, and also trying to bust the Unions, so municipalities can also fire thousands of teachers, he is actually greatly raising the income cap level, under which people can get state school vouchers for to send their kids to private schools.

Up until now; the vouchers were for low income parents only. Under Walker's budget, even well off parents, living in well funded school districts, where the public schools are performing well, can obtain vouchers to send their kids to private schools.

So, on one hand, Walker claims that he has to cut the cost of funding schools, but on the other hand he is actually increasing it greatly, in order to provide vouchers to people who are well off.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 5, 2011 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Reagan's firing of the air traffic controllers didn't poll well either, but it was the right thing to do. That takes leadership, and even mark-in-austin agrees it worked out (D.C.'s AIRPORT was eventually named for him too ; )

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 5, 2011 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Walker is starting to sound like a Rushdoony type, wanting to end public education, period.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 5, 2011 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Reagan is worm food, his mind checked out before he did, and who gives a rat's what mark thought about it?

Posted by: caothien9 | March 5, 2011 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Speaking of anger, the House recapture seems to have taken the wind out of the tea party sails. They're fizzling fast.

Anger is exhausting, and most of the baggers are old.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 5, 2011 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Gov. Kochdaffi of Wisconsin, is proposing to not only slash funding to public schools, but his bill also prohibits local governments from raising property taxes, to replace the lost state school funding.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 5, 2011 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Recall? WI may just hold a special election.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 5, 2011 10:58 AM | Report abuse

shrink, one might credibly argue that the legislative give and take requires patience as the ultimate virtue, but I would count it only as one necessary character trait. :-)

Either IMS or 12BB posted some interesting poll results last night.

http://www.texastribune.org/texas-taxes/2011-budget-shortfall/uttexas-tribune-poll-mixed-signals-on-budget-cuts/

Most Texans want to balance the state budget with cuts, only.

Most Texans, it turns out, do not want to cut any single item.

I think Americans are more like Texans than some of you may allow.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 5, 2011 11:01 AM | Report abuse

mark-in-austin, no one gives a rat's what you think. Please stop posting forthwith.

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 5, 2011 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Mark,

What all Americans want, including Texans:

"Don't tax you, don't tax me, tax that fellow behind the tree!" Senator Russell B Long(D) Louisiana

Posted by: Liam-still | March 5, 2011 11:14 AM | Report abuse

One of the books Bernie has recommended here is Gang of Five, from the early 2000's. Along with examining such better known people like Kristol and Norquist, who've had a huge influence on the ideological and organizational character of today's Republican Party, it takes a look at Clint Bolick, who's been a major player in changing the nature of the affirmative action dialogue and pushing educational vouchers. He was the key figure behind the move for vouchers in Milwaukee schools.

Republicans have tried to create fertile ground for their conservative agenda in states like Wisconsin that, in spite of conservative strains, have long had robust progressive and labor traditions. We are seeing some of the results of this effort now with people like Ryan and Priebus taking important places on the national stage. With Walker, though, they've clearly made an ill-timed overreach. But the whole effort to undermine public education has made Wisconsin kind of a ground zero, and it's no surprise to see the language on education Liam points out in the Walker bill.

Here's a brief wikipedia link on Bolick.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Bolick

Posted by: AllButCertain | March 5, 2011 11:15 AM | Report abuse

And of course we also have this wonderful example of Tea Party cognitive dissonance;

"Government, keep your hands off of my Medicare and Social Security."

Posted by: Liam-still | March 5, 2011 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Those polled were union people! LOL
Scott Walker is brilliant and many people in Wisconsin will be happy he saved the state and opened up opportunities for more jobs! Unions sucked the life out of this country and after what auto workers did to Detroit, these unions will do to the state! Thank God for Walker and this is coming from a former union employee and spouse! Way to go Walker, we are standing behind you!!!

Posted by: colby123 | March 5, 2011 11:19 AM | Report abuse

I proceed from the assumption that no one gives "a rat's" for what I think, except me.

When I was six, my grandfather, an engineer who was Marconi's right hand in the years right before WW1, told me that I was obviously the most important person in the world, because if I were not here, from my non-existent view no one else would be, either. Some minutes later, slow as I was, it dawned on me that the same thought experiment works for each of us.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 5, 2011 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Well governing may require patience, but being a Dad...I had to pry my kids' cold dead fingers off the mouse, seems the Rock Paper Scissors game at the NYT was addictive and we can't have that, not in this house.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 5, 2011 11:20 AM | Report abuse

"if I were not here, from my non-existent view no one else would be, either"

Watch out, that is an opening, a worm hole into the trap know as semiotics, which is easy an intellectual Hotel California.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 5, 2011 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Fox News Pollster; Rasmussen, polled "likely voters" and found that Governor Scott Kochdaffi's approval ratings have plummeted in Wisconsin, among Likely Voters.

Per TPM

Rasmussen poll now finds that almost 60% of likely Wisconsin voters disapprove of his job performance.

That finding shows just how quickly Walker -- who was elected to his first term last November with 52% of the vote -- has sunk just in his first two months in office. And it comes one day after Rasmussen released results from the same poll, all of which showed public opinion firmly on the side of the unions in the labor rights battle that has deadlocked the state capitol for the past few weeks.

In the poll, 57% of respondents said they disapprove of Walker's job performance -- including 48% who say they strongly disapprove. Meanwhile, only 43% said they approve of the job Walker is doing.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 5, 2011 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Gov. Walker would learn alot from listening to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v%3Dj3ZTCPJ39LA&ved=0CBUQtwIwAA

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 5, 2011 11:30 AM | Report abuse

The cuts will be devastating:

http://nationsreportcard.gov/science_2009/g8_state.asp?subtab_id=Tab_6&tab_id=tab1#tabsContainer

[National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP); for you folks in AnnArbor]

2009 4th Grade Math

White students: Texas 254, Wisconsin 250 (national average 248)
Black students: Texas 231, Wisconsin 217 (national 222)
Hispanic students: Texas 233, Wisconsin 228 (national 227)

2009 8th Grade Math

White students: Texas 301, Wisconsin 294 (national 294)
Black students: Texas 272, Wisconsin 254 (national 260)
Hispanic students: Texas 277, Wisconsin 268 (national 260)

2009 4th Grade Reading

White students: Texas 232, Wisconsin 227 (national 229)
Black students: Texas 213, Wisconsin 192 (national 204)
Hispanic students: Texas 210, Wisconsin 202 (national 204)

2009 8th Grade Reading

White students: Texas 273, Wisconsin 271 (national 271)
Black students: Texas 249, Wisconsin 238 (national 245)
Hispanic students: Texas 251, Wisconsin 250 (national 248)

2009 4th Grade Science

White students: Texas 168, Wisconsin 164 (national 162)
Black students: Texas 139, Wisconsin 121 (national 127)
Hispanic students: Wisconsin 138, Texas 136 (national 130)

2009 8th Grade Science

White students: Texas 167, Wisconsin 165 (national 161)
Black students: Texas 133, Wisconsin 120 (national 125)
Hispanic students: Texas 141, Wisconsin 134 (national 131)

H/T Iowahawk, and BTW Krugman is a tool and the NYTimes is as straight as Col. Gaddafi:

Posted by: tao9 | March 5, 2011 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Governor Scott Kochdaffi does not listen, and learn.

He will be recalled in 2012. He is going to give Governor Winky Poo From The Tundra a race for her money, on the shortest time as a governor reality show.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 5, 2011 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Right on cue, in re the role of hate speech in political discourse...

"Is it uncivil when someone implicitly compares someone else to Hitler, Stalin and Hosni Mubarak, but then says he is, of course, not comparing anybody to Hitler, Stalin or Hosni Mubarak?"

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/04/should-politics-be-nice/?hp

Posted by: shrink2 | March 5, 2011 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Ship Abandoning It's Sinking Rat!

David Koch now says that he had never heard of Scot Walker, until that prank phone call brought the name to his attention.

This despite the fact that Koch has contributed huge sums of money to the Walker campaign, has his AFP front group running a massive TV ad, in support of the Walker Union busting effort, and has an AFP bus load, including Joe The Plunger, touring Wisconsin in support of Walker.

Since David Koch is now running away from Scott Kochdaffi, that mean that the guy is political road kill.

In A Nutshell:

Ship Abandoning It's Sinking Rat!

Posted by: Liam-still | March 5, 2011 11:47 AM | Report abuse

tao9 separated by race to make his point seem more important.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | March 5, 2011 11:51 AM | Report abuse

I hope they do recall Scott Walker. He has been lying to the people of Wisconsin throughout this whole protest and to his supporters.

More and more people are turning against him everyday the more they hear that the pay that teachers, policeman, firefighters and all other State employes receive includes health care and retirement funds. That is called deferred pay. They agreed to receive less in pay to have these benefits so they do pay into the system.

Posted by: dianeriley | March 5, 2011 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Tao also liked Christine O'Donnell, because of her smile.

He is real Tea Party material.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 5, 2011 11:56 AM | Report abuse

There was an article on the opinion page in the HY Times this morning, Koch said he didn't know Walker. He then went onto say that he couldn't understand why so many people hated him. he was attending the opening of the new cancer center at M.I.T. that he had donated the money for.

If he gave me a few million dollars, I might not hate him as much either

Posted by: dianeriley | March 5, 2011 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Who couldn't love a guy who is worth Sixty Billion dollars, running a group named Americans For Prosperity, that wants to slash the incomes and benefits of the Working Class.

The full name of the group should be: American Idiots For Koch Billionaire's Increased Prosperity.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 5, 2011 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Koch should fund that cancer research on himself. He is the cancer that is eating away the American Middle Class.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 5, 2011 12:16 PM | Report abuse

I do agree that serious cuts have to be made and we will all feel it one way or another, but this guy is not playing with a full deck. He is coming across as if he is setting up a police state, but even the police don't support him.
There are also many other items in the bill that are way off the deep end that aren't getting much press. For example taking 25 or so department heads and making their jobs political appointees.
Walker needs to go bye-bye!!!

Posted by: dan74 | March 5, 2011 12:17 PM | Report abuse

...rockin' the Marley this morning...*

"If you are the big tree,
we are the small ax,
ready to cut you down,
to cut you down."

Small Ax socialism.

*no, I don't smoke anything.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 5, 2011 12:35 PM | Report abuse

The pressure on the GOP senators will continue to increase as the results of Walker's union-busting fiasco while he was the Milwaukee County Executive gains more press.

In a nutshell, Walker decided to privatize security guards, and used a ginned up "fiscal emergency" to do it. He was twice overrode by the county commissioners, but vetoed them both times and went ahead with his plans. He fired the union security guards, cut the pay & benefits, and gave the security contract to Wackenhut (see Afghanistan for who these jokers are). Wackenhut brought in guards from Chicago and elsewhere rather than hiring locals. Wackenhut also hired a known felon to be the security chief in charge of the county courthouse.

The union went to arbitration, and a ruling in their favor was handed down in January. The arbitrator found that Walker had overstepped his bounds.

Now the county has to take the union guards back while honoring the contract with Wackenhut, so they are paying twice, and any financial gains from Walker's privatization scheme just burned the taxpayers.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/117276913.html

Rachel Maddow covered this earlier this week:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/41917648#41917648

Posted by: suekzoo1 | March 5, 2011 12:37 PM | Report abuse

"Right on cue, in re the role of hate speech in political discourse...

"Is it uncivil when someone implicitly compares someone else to Hitler, Stalin and Hosni Mubarak, but then says he is, of course, not comparing anybody to Hitler, Stalin or Hosni Mubarak?"

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/04/should-politics-be-nice/?hp"

Hi shrink! Hope all is well! Talk about your right wing scum. N behalf of my party, I apologize. Avert your eyes if you must. Use cao as the model of civility and on-topic discourse. We could all learn from him. Anybody disagree with that?

Fantastic work everybody! The passion! The reasoning! I can't believe reading the comments is free! Thank you! ;-)

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 5, 2011 12:40 PM | Report abuse

"...until the philosophy which holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned: That until there are no longer first-class and second class citizens of any nation; That until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes;"

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 5, 2011 12:44 PM | Report abuse

So, Brigham Young University

requires it's students, not only to not engage in pre-marital sex, but to also abstain from Tea and Coffee?!

I do find it ironic, in a whimsical amusing way, that Brigham Young has suspended their top basketball scorer, for scoring off the court.

"Gentlemen their will be no fighting in the war room".

"Gentlemen, their will be no scoring by the basketball team."

Furthermore; if any of you are caught sneaking into a Starbucks, or purchasing Lipton Tea, you will lose your magic underpants privileges.

Which of course leads to the burning question, which everyone is dying to hear the answer to:

What happens to Mormons who wear Tea Bags to protest rallies?

Posted by: Liam-still | March 5, 2011 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Scott Kochdaffi was the Milwaukee County Chief Executive for several years, until he was elected governor. What has not yet received much coverage is the fact that he has left Milwaukee County swimming in red ink, and on the brink of having to file for bankruptcy protection, and default on it's bonds.

The only reason that it has not hit the fan yet, is because their is an election soon, for the voters to pick the new County Exec, and until the new person gets sworn in, nothing is being done, to sort out the fiscal mess that Walker left behind him, in Milwaukee County.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 5, 2011 12:55 PM | Report abuse


Hi all! Great work!

Who else thinks this is gutsy? I dunno how Barry walks without clangin'! IYKWIMAITYD,

Thanks for reading! (Or not!) ;-)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703580004576180522653787198.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsTop

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 5, 2011 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Grow up, Claw.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 5, 2011 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Troll one of my all time favorites! Thank you for citing that. I sailed from Greece to NYC on a wooden boat in 1975-76 and I had that album taped and only a few others...

Troll, I prefer your fatuous, faux friendly perkiness to the insult contests. Though both styles are equally boring, the idea of getting nasty to strangers over the internet seems even more infantile, certainly more revealing of the character of the author than ladling the same dose of corn syrup over everything you write.

Ignoring or saying, I agree, or I disagree, or why do you think...all seems pretty easy to me.

I wonder what it is about talking politics on the internet that attracts the same people to attack each other in the exact same way, over and over and over, even archiving and then re-posting junk someone they can't stand posted years ago. It is creepy, or maybe it is just that they didn't grow up with lots of sibling rivals, who knows.

Hey, you're a vet, what do you think we are protecting when we protect America? Feedom? Equal opportunity? Or is it more primitive, it is our country, so we kill people who want to kill us.
What is it about America that is worth dying for, to you? I can't speak for the others, obviously, but I won't argue with anything you say, I just want to know.

ruk wants me to write up my view of a peculiarly American large S Socialism, Mark has characterized what I've said before as Swedish with a Bismarkian blanket, but it isn't. Sweden does not have the best model for us. The size of government makes no difference to me, only that it is not corrupt and does not waste money, which it obviously is and does. I see wealth differential as a necessary evil and I despise public employee unions. I don't see the US Constitution as accommodating Euro-socialism and I don't see capitalism as anything but a tool, I love Barak Obama and I think he is making dreadful mistakes. For me, workers and the vulnerable are the people who matter most, taking care of vulnerable people and working people is how I measure social progress. And I see the US military as the reason we still have the rule of law in this country, not the lawyers, not the language of the Constitution, I credit the integrity of the US military for preserving what we care about so I am interested in your thoughts, your real thoughts. You can hold the Karo, I don't need anymore.


Posted by: shrink2 | March 5, 2011 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Hi shrink! I'll be happy to answer in depth this afternoon. Interesting questions.

I admit to being confused. I have not insulted anybody! In fact, I'm trying to emulate cao, stylistically. He is, among the liberals (;-)) here very much respected. What about his style is not appropriate?

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 5, 2011 1:22 PM | Report abuse

I hate David Koch for using his billions to establish a fake populist movement designed to encourage ignorant white racists to vote against their own interests and in favor of cutting benefits to the poor and increasing welfare subsidies to the super-rich, like David Koch. The Kochs are paying huge PR firms, whose job it is to mislead the public, to reinvent them as philanthropists as they funnel huge amounts of cash through front groups like Americans for Prosperity to Republican politicians who privately vow to end all government programs that stand in the way of Koch Industries profits.

Posted by: dnahatch1 | March 5, 2011 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps it's time to cut to the chase and recall Walker...

Posted by: tegrat | March 5, 2011 1:30 PM | Report abuse

He criticizes himself from time to time, he calls it getting wrapped around the axle. I don't know why some people feel compelled to counter the attacks of people who do not matter, but some do and no one ever thinks they started it, to say nothing of being responsible for stopping it.

Also on that ship, I read the only book I brought again and again, Nikos Kazantzakis 'poem' The Odyssey: A Modern Sequel.

It is absolutely enormous, the work of a literary genius and it is all about patience with the human condition.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 5, 2011 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Union activists, Democrats, liberals, socialists, leftist media, and well-meaning union sympathizers should be warned that their leadership’s scorched-earth defense of collective bargaining for government workers and the associated right to strike carries a poison pill into the movement. Most Americans are not political junkies. The danger is that injecting an apocalyptic view of public-worker union rights into a State budget battle nowadays creates a simplified popular perception that the opposing paradigm must be “fiscal sanity.” That equates union advocacy with tax-and-spend fiscal insanity. While the personal demonization of leaders of the right by leaders of the left may feel good, and may result in gains for Democrats, it cuts the other way on issues. The cost to public-worker advocacy is the acceptance by default of a mantle of job-killing fiscal irresponsibility. Perhaps the Tea Party GOP are as willing to give up their State leaders for purposes of fiscal reform, as were the Dems willing to sacrifice a commanding majority of individual reps in the U.S. House for passage of ObamaCare and ObamaStimulus. Then let the other side take the heat for sorting out the aftermath. As a taxpayer, if the choice is between what I can afford and what I grant my employees as subjective “rights,” the necessities of my pocketbook have to win every time. That is exactly the theatrical concept being thrust upon taxpayers (voters) by reformers, a perception being aided by over-the-top pro-public-union posturing.

Posted by: ByThePeople | March 5, 2011 1:35 PM | Report abuse

"Also on that ship, I read the only book I brought again and again, Nikos Kazantzakis 'poem' The Odyssey: A Modern Sequel."

I read The Last Temptation... It was intriguing but kinda ponderous, so I never tackled his Odyssy. Think it's worth it? Or lost on a Con? ;-)

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 5, 2011 1:56 PM | Report abuse

This was actually the most blatant overreach short of the collecBarg'g stuff.

Here the State's "we love local control" Republicans are legally preventing, at the state level, tax increases by officials in towns and municipalities seeking to offset the Walker cuts at the state level.

''''''''''''''
Gov. Kochdaffi of Wisconsin, is proposing to not only slash funding to public schools, but his bill also prohibits local governments from raising property taxes, to replace the lost state school funding.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 5, 2011 10:52 AM

Posted by: smd1234 | March 5, 2011 2:24 PM | Report abuse

"Troll, I prefer your fatuous, faux friendly perkiness to the insult contests."

Might be more tolerable without the racism. But I guess Conservatives aren't Conservatives if they don't hate black people.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 5, 2011 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Walker has said the changes are needed to help close the state's budget gap - which stands at $137 million this year and $3.6 billion over the next two years. He has warned that if his budget repair bill is not passed there could eventually be as many as 12,000 public employee layoffs across the state.

The bill is due. The namby-pamby, Wisconsin liberals are choosing to default. State bankruptcy seems to be the option they want. I say, let 'em have it.

The Democrat unionistas will face bigger layoffs in a few years. Unemployed Democrats will be angry, no matter who wins this battle.

Posted by: battleground51 | March 5, 2011 2:35 PM | Report abuse

I'm starting to wish the Wisconsin liberals win this battle. If they do, Wisconsin will sink ever deeper into fiscal morass. Walker will be gone and the Wisconsinites will be stuck with another socialist governor wondering how his state went belly-up.

America, at large will know and Republicans will be called upon to fix the mess, again.

Next time, the squishy, Cheese-heads may stick to the plan. They seem pretty dense but if they get whacked enough times, they may come to their senses and do the right thing.

They came pretty close, this time.

Posted by: battleground51 | March 5, 2011 2:42 PM | Report abuse

People should take a hard look at the rash of states that are going bankrupt, across America.

The states that are fiscal basket cases are all ruled by liberal Democrats (aka socialists).

They are also the states with the highest tax rates.

Go figure!

Posted by: battleground51 | March 5, 2011 2:47 PM | Report abuse

It's no wonder Walker's poll numbers are falling, in Wisconsin.

Wisconsinites love their socialism and it will take more than one conservative governor to wean them off it.

I really believe the shock of complete, fiscal meltdown, Greece style, is the only thing than may shock them into the real world.

Same for California, Illinois, and new York.

Looks like there may be hope for New Jersey.

Posted by: battleground51 | March 5, 2011 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Here is one example of the correct way to work with teachers...

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/03/portland_teacher_contract_prom.html

"School district and union leaders both said the contract's most important feature promises to be a game-changer for students: a new teacher evaluation system, still in development, that they say will lead to deeper, more constructive examination of teaching practices."

Republican antics are destructive sideshows.


Posted by: shrink2 | March 5, 2011 3:00 PM | Report abuse

The liberal Democrat solution for averting state bankruptcy is always to raise taxes.

Always.

And, there is never an end to it.

They soak the working people and then they spend ever more.

A vicious cycle that has no end.

It's best to not start it.

Second best is to stop it cold ASAP.

It's what Walker is trying to do.

Illinois, Chicago (Obamaland) is tax central for the American mid-west. I pity those poor fools. They're getting skinned alive.

Chicago may end up looking like Detroit.

A liberal wasteland.

Posted by: battleground51 | March 5, 2011 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Mike,

I didn't separate the test scores by race, the NEAP did. (Plus the cohorts added together comprise almost all students in toto at either state, but rock on with ya bad self).

Liam,

I wouldn't care if O'Donnell was one of Gaddafi's bodyguards, she still has a terrific smile. Doesn't make me Tea Party...just means the old blood's still circulatin'.

You're apparently past that.

Posted by: tao9 | March 5, 2011 3:10 PM | Report abuse

It is a good idea to elect people who like working together to get a job done (for better or worse, I've watched plenty of Thomas and Friends, which I am certain the Republican nutbars would consider Socialist propaganda, like, when Henry helps Gordon get up the hill. Henry should laugh as Gordon fails, then help Sir Topam Hat downsize him or better, just close the rail line. Everyone knows trains are a socialist menace).

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2011/03/john_kitzhaber_makes_lean_unio.html

Posted by: shrink2 | March 5, 2011 3:13 PM | Report abuse

And what about those teeming hordes of outlaw "immigrants that the liberals love so much?? It's getting so bad, out here, that I moved a big rock in my yard, the other day, and a bunch of Mexicans scurried out from under it.

Now that's bad!

Obama has decided not to fully enforce American immigration laws just as he refuses to enforce DOMA.

It's obvious liberals will go around any law they do not like.

I hope the next conservative president decides to NOT enforce the abortion laws.

Liberals would be wetting their panties from left coast to left coast.

There's lots of liberal laws that could be ignored. Will the next conservative have the guts???

Obama has provided the precedence.

Posted by: battleground51 | March 5, 2011 3:14 PM | Report abuse

I have a capital idea. Governor Walker ought to give the liberal voters of Wisconsin a democratic choice.

Choice A: Raise property, state income, sales, and excise taxes an aggregate of 40%. That ought to cover the fat, union contracts for a few years.

Choice B: Stick to his present plan to fix the fiscal trainwreck that is the Wisconsin budget.

Let the people choose and let the consequences fall, either way.

Will the Cheeseheads be willing to pay ever more dearly for their beloved socialism??

Maybe........maybe not.

The people's choice.

Posted by: battleground51 | March 5, 2011 3:25 PM | Report abuse

@shrink...

"The size of government makes no difference to me, only that it is not corrupt and does not waste money, which it obviously is and does."

While I do not disagree with this observation I always feel the need to add that this is also very true of big business. Too many 'baggers and their ilk wish to dismiss Gov't as evil and free enterprise and Corps as good. BS. Corps are just as wasteful and just as corrupt as Gov't. I accept corruption as simply part of our human nature. I don't support it, I strive to not be part of it, and I would certainly do my best to root it out when and where possible but I am a big believer in the "Serenity Prayer".

Back during my college days...a long long time ago..I worked for Delta Airlines..back in the days of the Big Seven Legacy carriers. We were the only airline non unionized and they made sure our pay scale was just enough above the union airlines to prevent any desire to form one...one way of doing business I guess...but here is a true story from Cincinnati which used to be a reservations hub for five Midwestern cities. The people answering the phones those days were primarily women..in an office of approximately 100 folks only 15 of us were men. After about six months on the job the Chief Supervisor called me into his office and told me what a fine job I was doing...he encouraged me to switch from my "Broadcasting" major and decide to make a career at Delta. His clincher..."look out the window..it's all women out there..you're a man you'll move up quickly"
And indeed during my three years at Delta it wasn't until the final year when a woman finally made supervisor.

I guess I've just seen too much racism and sexism in my life. I feel too pragmatic to call our nation "exceptional". We are exceptional in many ways, but not all of them are good..our Foreign Policy has been narcissistic and arrogant, we have become the bullies of the world. I truly love the United States...but you can't be a friend or lover and a flatterer to.

I admire your heart and soul shrink and agree with your observations about how we should judge a society. I guess I pretty much agree with all that you post.

Does that mean I need to have my head examined? :-)

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 5, 2011 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Battleground's posts remind me why Republicans have a hard time holding on to power for very long...

Governance by victimhood and vengence just doesn't work in this country.

Posted by: ronnieandrush | March 5, 2011 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Unemployment, as measured by Gallup without seasonal adjustment, hit 10.3% in February -- up from 9.8% at the end of January. The U.S. unemployment rate is now essentially the same as the 10.4% at the end of February 2010.

Underemployment, a measure that combines part-time workers wanting full-time work with those who are unemployed, surged in February to 19.9%. This resulted from the combination of a sharp 0.5-point increase since the end of January in the percentage unemployed and a 0.5-point increase in the percentage working part time but wanting full-time work. Underemployment is now higher than it was at this point a year ago (19.7%).

Flipping burgers in the morning and working at the car wash in the afternoon does not a job make.

I hear Mitt Romney is compiling an OBAMA MISERY INDEX.

I'm curious to see if it gives Jimmy Carter's MI a run.

Stagflation is just around the corner as is the election.

Posted by: battleground51 | March 5, 2011 3:52 PM | Report abuse

California Budget Battles update:

SAN FRANCISCO -- A public policy group representing the Bay Area's largest employers on Friday endorsed Gov. Jerry Brown's budget plan, including asking voters to extend tax increases and eliminating local redevelopment agencies.

California's budgeting for the past decade has been "a childish exercise," a litany of fiscal parlor tricks and passed bucks, Bay Area Council President and Chief Executive Officer Jim Wunderman told reporters after emerging from his executive committee's meeting with Brown. "But there's good news: an adult has entered the room, and his name is Jerry Brown."
--------------------------------------------------
Add this endorsement to the California Chamber of C. and LA Chamber of Commerce.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | March 5, 2011 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Grover Norquist takes on Jerry Brown:

California Gov. Jerry Brown, fresh from the Bay Area Council's endorsement Friday, took on Americans for Tax Reform head Grover Norquist, calling him "highly undemocratic" for trying to dissuade Republicans from supporting his special election and budget proposals.

Brown's comments came days after Norquist, in a phone call to us this week, dismissed Brown's special election efforts as "pathetic." The conservative activist threatened to come out to California to do "whatever is necessary" to keep Republicans from signing on to Brown's plan; he says it would be a violation of ATR's "no tax" pledge.

Brown's response: "I did not take a pledge denying the people the right to vote."

"He's pathetic himself...and highly undemocratic,'' said the governor of Norquist. He predicted Californians will reject Norquist as an "outsider" from Washington D.C. who's trying to "dictate" politics and policy to Californians.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/nov05election/detail?entry_id=84379#ixzz1FlFl70HA
-----------------------------------------------------------
Seems like there is bipartisan support for Jerry Brown's budget, including California voters who polled 54% in favor. This is the the first time in a very long time that Californians of both parties have come together. Then, here comes Norquist to try to "re-partisan" the parties. It won't work.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | March 5, 2011 4:04 PM | Report abuse

shrink-

A. why do you think BO is making mistakes, when he can do nearly nothing in the next 12-18 months due to the current political context. He must be re-elected to hope to really accomplish.

B. you didn't ask me but - USA has waaay too many commitments around the world that keep troops/bases out there, and keep our baseline cost of the military waaay too high, along w/ the ever growing appetite of the MIC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military%E2%80%93industrial_complex)

C. you didn't ask me but - Cheney engineered the contractor-ization of the military's efforts around the world, keeping costs high and results mediocre. http://www.brookings.edu/articles/2005/0301usdepartmentofdefense_singer.aspx AND http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/blumenthal/2007/10/04/private_military_in_iraq AND http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/warriors/view/ AND www.smcm.edu/.../Camacho%20-%20ARTICLE%20Private%20Contractors.pdf

D. you didn't ask me but - big problem for BO now if he winds down these war efforts and brings guys/gals home only to add them to the 8.9% official unemployed

E. you didn't ask me but - only choice for USA is to slowly reduce commitments (i.e., B) and crazy weapon system expenditures, reduce contractor-iztion (i.e., C), reduce deployed forces (i.e., D), grow jobs here in the USA, reduce tax and other bennies for multinationals that pay -0- in taxes here in the USA.

F. you didn't ask me but - BO is all about gov't efficiency. Anything he can do quickly has already been done in '09 and '10. Now is the long hard slog, and he needs another term for that. I am pessimistic but remain hopeful that the pendulum swings BIG - - away from these Luddites and cretins - - in the next couple elections!

Regards,

smd

''''''''''''''
ruk wants me to write up my view of a peculiarly American large S Socialism, Mark has characterized what I've said before as Swedish with a Bismarkian blanket, but it isn't. Sweden does not have the best model for us. The size of government makes no difference to me, only that it is not corrupt and does not waste money, which it obviously is and does. I see wealth differential as a necessary evil and I despise public employee unions. I don't see the US Constitution as accommodating Euro-socialism and I don't see capitalism as anything but a tool, I love Barak Obama and I think he is making dreadful mistakes. For me, workers and the vulnerable are the people who matter most, taking care of vulnerable people and working people is how I measure social progress. And I see the US military as the reason we still have the rule of law in this country, not the lawyers, not the language of the Constitution, I credit the integrity of the US military for preserving what we care about so I am interested in your thoughts, your real thoughts. You can hold the Karo, I don't need anymore.

Posted by: smd1234 | March 5, 2011 4:11 PM | Report abuse

"Might be more tolerable without the racism. But I guess Conservatives aren't Conservatives if they don't hate black people."

Hi DDAWD!  I hope all is well with you!  Your comments are both fascinating and provocative!  Bravo sir!  Thank you for your always intriguing writings!

Of course Conservative are racist. Every last one of us.  We are out and proud Klansman.  How could we not be!  Why, my every word, sentence and paragraphs are filled with inveterate racism, literally dripping with it.  And not in code or "dog whistle" but explicit. We don't try to hide it, we shout our racism from the rooftops!  But one minor point, and forgive my impertinence for mentioning it.  To wit, it's not just blacks that draw my (our) racist ire, but all brown people.  Again, I only want to help you in your unenviable task of trying to comprehend us racist, homophobic Conservatives. :-). If there's any other questions you have, and I'm not available to answer them, it's helpful to reduce Conservatives into the most two-dimensional caricature possible, and then impute as much evil as possible into their motivation.  Also, Cao is probably the best resource, even better than me, on what Conservatives believe. And never forget, what applies to one applies to all!  I hope I've helped! ;-)

Thank you again for reading! :-). Hope you have a great rest of the day!

Mrs. Palin? Did I go good?  Can I have a wink?

Great comments everyone!  Fan-effing-Tastic!!!!

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 5, 2011 4:13 PM | Report abuse

messed up the smcm link

http://www.smcm.edu/democracy/_assets/_documents/Camacho%20-%20ARTICLE%20Private%20Contractors.pdf

ALSO see

http://www.cato.org/pubs/articles/isenberg-private%20military-contractors-2009.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/One-Nation-Under-Contract-Outsourcing/dp/0300168322/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1

http://www.amazon.com/Corporate-Warriors-Privatized-Military-Industry/dp/0801474361/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_2


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-isenberg/about-that-non-discretion_b_436832.html

Posted by: smd1234 | March 5, 2011 4:43 PM | Report abuse

smd, just a drive thru, I agree with you on good stuff BHO is doing, as of course, now the Republicans' idea of the alternative, McCain/Palin is almost literally unimaginable. The reason I am an Obama critic is because I have never thought his two term status, his re-election, was going to be contested. I think that little of the Republican political program.

Just as an aside, we must never, ever think this way, "big problem for BO now if he winds down these war efforts and brings guys/gals home only to add them to the 8.9% official unemployed," but I am good with your B,C and E.

And ruk, fear not!, America is in fact exceptional. It is not invulnerable, it has nothing to do with Religion, it is just uniquely, hugely able to to do what it thinks it can do: together, which is socialisms promise. America is sown or maybe already infested, as all great societies are with the seeds or you could call them in the Marxist terminology, the contradictions of its own destruction. If we juxtapose the welfare state with rugged individualism, we are lost. The welfare state is everything that is wrong with socialism and rugged individualism, what is it called, IGMGFY, both are ideological cancers.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 5, 2011 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Hah!! Liberals have always hated Rasmussen and claimed he is a right-wing schill.

Until he says somthing they like.

Like now.

I believe Rasmussen. After all, we are talking Wisconsin. One of the deepest blue states, until just recently.

Cheeseheads are backsliding now but they'll be back. It is inevitable.

Posted by: battleground51 | March 5, 2011 5:15 PM | Report abuse

"Hah!! Liberals have always hated Rasmussen and claimed he is a right-wing schill.

Until he says somthing they like."

I still hate Rasmussen and I still claim he is a right-wing shill.

More than likely he's STILL wrong and STILL useless. DDAWD was right, if Rasmussen has him at 57% disapproval, his real rating is probably in the low 60s

Posted by: schrodingerscat | March 5, 2011 5:44 PM | Report abuse

Pick your polls all you like but the only one that counts is the election, polling booth.

That's where people tell the real truth.

November, 2010 was quite an eye opener.

Who woulda thought just two years ago.

Two years!!

Jimmy Carter was popular longer than that.

Posted by: battleground51 | March 5, 2011 6:09 PM | Report abuse

battleground, you're a Duke fan, aren't ya??

Posted by: DDAWD | March 5, 2011 6:51 PM | Report abuse

"November, 2010 was quite an eye opener.

Who woulda thought just two years ago.

Two years!!

Jimmy Carter was popular longer than that."

I suppose that's why there's this huge stampede on the right of people announcing their candidacies. Oh, wait.......

Hmmm....if they held a debate in May for the Republican presidential primaries and there were no candidates, would anybody really give a shite?

Posted by: schrodingerscat | March 5, 2011 7:00 PM | Report abuse

tao9,

Why disaggregate the scores based on race?

Why not look at all students?

Of course Wisconsin ranks significantly above the national average when you look at total student population, while Texas is just at the national average.

Posted by: JPRS | March 5, 2011 8:18 PM | Report abuse

@DDAWD

"battleground, you're a Duke fan, aren't ya??"

That was a cheap shot, even from a Tarheel.:-)

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 5, 2011 8:24 PM | Report abuse

@shrink

"If we juxtapose the welfare state with rugged individualism, we are lost. The welfare state is everything that is wrong with socialism and rugged individualism, what is it called, IGMGFY, both are ideological cancers."

If I'm reading you correctly I believe we are in agreement. The IGMGFY has certainly been an absymal failure...twice now if you count the Great Depression.
But I also concur that a total welfare or nanny state is not the answer.

And so it seems to me that we simply need to level the playing field a bit more and also provide more educational opportunities. When kids out of dental school are looking at my wife's practice, we can't afford to bring them in as associates because they are carrying 200,000 to 300,000 of debt from their student loans. They want and NEED big $$ right now, they are not able to take the time as my wife did 35 years ago to build a practice from scratch. I suspect this is true in all professions, except perhaps those which will accept kids with a four year community college degree.

And so let's cut the pie a little differently. In the 50's CEO's made 25X what the workers made...now that multiple has risen to 300X..and that's just the CEO...I feel certain the multiples for V.P.'s C.O.O.'s, legal counsel and the rest have also skyrocketed in comparison to actual WORKERS. I'll let 12Bar detail the evils of the corporate compensation committee's and the good ole boy system involved that created this mess.

And so shrink....I think many of us can see what would be a far better society, but how do we get there from here?

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 5, 2011 8:32 PM | Report abuse

JPRS, I thought the results tao cited were interesting and almost inexplicable. For all students, TX was one point above ave and WI was 8 pts above ave. Yet TX whites, blacks, hispanics, and asians outscored WI categorically - very significantly for blacks. One wonders how this is possible.

When Perry and the Lege pull the plug on school financing to the tune of $10B - $94M here in Austin - the results will be clearer, I fear.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 5, 2011 8:36 PM | Report abuse

TX, the largest "red" state, has a $25B+ shortfall for the next biennium. When I analyze the revenue side, I note the drop in sales taxes b/c of the recession, the under-performance of the revised tax on businesses as the exemptions carved out made it a revenue killer instead of a revenue increaser, and, most notably, the extension of the 1998 or so tax break for natural gas drilling far beyond the need for it, once the big new fields came in around 2005. This last accounts for about half of the shortfall.

Our lege is incapable of closing a loophole or an exemption, however, IMO.

Chuck?
Troll?

Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 5, 2011 8:43 PM | Report abuse

The second I saw the title of this article on a google news search, I knew it was liberal shill Greg Sargent. This guy is as biased as they come and he pushes a political agenda on every single post he makes.

Liberals will eat it up, I'm sure.

You will be responsible for their mental breakdowns, Greg. Because this budget fix will pass, and many of these recall efforts will fail.

Posted by: VAGuy01 | March 5, 2011 8:59 PM | Report abuse

Might be more tolerable without the racism. But I guess Conservatives aren't Conservatives if they don't hate black people.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 5, 2011
-------
George let terrorists kill 2200 people so he would have an excuse, and when that wasn't enough declared Saddam had WMD's that he knew full well weren't there.

Posted by: ceflynline | March 5, 2011
-------
Think the USA will lay a finger on Iran? With a real military? No, but we'll let Israel bomb them and we'll bear the real pain, so Israeli settlers can go on stealing land and shooting little kids in the back from the air.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 5, 2011
=========================================

The race card. Trutherism. Anti-Semitism. The liberals have been hitting on all cylinders today.

Posted by: Brigade | March 5, 2011 9:18 PM | Report abuse

The fascinating and frightening Stuxnet story. As the author concludes, this was/is a Hiroshima event and there's no going back. (h/t Jay Rosen)

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2011/04/stuxnet-201104?printable=true

And, if you are yet unencumbered by the recognition that Newt Gingrich is a species of psychopath, you'd probably better get yourself up to speed...

http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/2011/03/ta030311.html

I'm excerpting the graph below for its obvious implications quite aside from Gingrich as subject...

"After all, NBC’s “Meet the Press” featured Gingrich as its most frequent guest in 2009 with nine separate appearances despite the fact that he held no position, that it did not book the actual Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) on the show even once that year, and that no ex-speaker had ever appeared on the show even once."

Contra Greg's stance on the value of looking into how such a Titanic v kayak imbalance could actually become the norm in cable "news" (this show and this man are by no means unique) it beggars belief that it is a consequence merely of "working the ref" (as effective as that strategy has been).

Posted by: bernielatham | March 5, 2011 9:26 PM | Report abuse

Greg wrote,

"Unions are going up with a hard-hitting new ad in Wisconsin, a labor source says, that takes direct aim for the first time at Republican state senators who continue to stand by Governor Walker, even as he sinks in the polls and the unpopularity of his budget repair proposal continues to mount.

"The ad, which is paid for by the labor-backed group Greater Wisconsin, is backed by a "significant" buy, the source tells me. The ad is a clear sign that unions will continue ramping up activity even as news reports indicate some senate Republicans may be wavering in their support for Walker."
==========================================

We're all too familiar with the potential impact of scurrilous political ads. Not being from Wisconsin, I'm wondering whether anyone is tracking the amount of money Democrats and organized labor are pouring into ads trying to influence Wisconsinites and comparing it to the amount spent by pro-Walker groups. If pro-Union forces are dominating the ad wars, it's not too surprising to see this reflected in polls.

Posted by: Brigade | March 5, 2011 9:31 PM | Report abuse

Here you go shrink, part 1


"Troll, I prefer your fatuous, faux friendly perkiness to the insult contests. Though both styles are equally boring, the idea of getting nasty to strangers over the internet seems even more infantile, certainly more revealing of the character of the author than ladling the same dose of corn syrup over everything you write.

Ignoring or saying, I agree, or I disagree, or why do you think...all seems pretty easy to me.

I wonder what it is about talking politics on the internet that attracts the same people to attack each other in the exact same way, over and over and over, even archiving and then re-posting junk someone they can't stand posted years ago. It is creepy, or maybe it is just that they didn't grow up with lots of sibling rivals, who knows."

There's no interest in civility, never was. It's just used as a gag to silence your opponent. (There's another accusation used, I just can quite put my finger on it. Maybe DDAWD will know. Oh well.) I will be astounded if it's ever acknowledged here.

"Hey, you're a vet, what do you think we are protecting when we protect America?Feedom? Equal opportunity? Or is it more primitive, it is our country, so we kill people who want to kill us. "

I never served in combat, though I sat on a C-130 for a couple of hours, ready to fly to Panama. I think the answer to that question depends primarily on your age. Young people believe in all that crap about free speech, for example. It takes the wisdom you get with age before you realize that you wouldn't risk a hangnail for anybody else's right to do or say anything. Protecting America is really only about protecting yourself, your family and maybe your friends. Also, I think it is appropriate to annihilate those that try to kill us.

"What is it about America that is worth dying for, to you? I can't speak for the others, obviously, but I won't argue with anything you say, I just want to know."

Again, it's age dependent. Now, the only thing I can think of is my family and maybe close friends. Ideals are for suckers, as it we're. Also I'll include - and here's where everybody can heap on the derision and scorn, I'll wear it proudly - for economic liberty. I think about Mencken: "Economic independence is the foundation of the only sort of freedom worth a damn." The older I've gotten the more I know he's right

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 5, 2011 9:34 PM | Report abuse

Like me and my brothers. We fight and we argue, but lay a hand on them and we're all coming after you with fury that you can't imagine.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 5, 2011
=======================================

The mere prospect has us all quaking in our boots.

Posted by: Brigade | March 5, 2011 9:34 PM | Report abuse

Here's part II for you shrink


"ruk wants me to write up my view of a peculiarly American large S Socialism, Mark has characterized what I've said before as Swedish with a Bismarkian blanket, but it isn't. Sweden does not have the best model for us. The size of government makes no difference to me, only that it is not corrupt and does not waste money, which it obviously is and does."

It should be obvious to a man of your learnedness that corruption is almost always a matter of size. You can have a big government that wastes money and is corrupt, or a smaller government that will waste less money and be less corrupt. You can't, under any circumstances though, have a government that does not waste money and is not corrupt.

"i see wealth differential as a necessary evil and I despise public employee unions. I don't see the US Constitution as accommodating Euro-socialism and I don't see capitalism as anything but a tool,"

I don't know why wealth differential should be viewed as evil. Some people are taller, some people are better at accumulating resources, some go prematurely bald. I also think, since the mid-forties, that the Constitution now merely functions, at best, as a speed bump. So if your desire a Sweden, I do not envision a scenario in which the Supreme Court would stand in the way. As for Capitalism, see Mencken above.

"I love Barak Obama and I think he is making dreadful mistakes. For me, workers and the vulnerable are the people who matter most, taking care of vulnerable people and working people is how I measure social progress."

Well, we agree but for different reasons. I'm not sure, ultimately, that who you think matter most actually matter the most. And I'm going to assume that your measure of social progress uses government redistribution as it's main marker. I don't.

"And I see the US military as the reason we still have the rule of law in this country, not the lawyers, not the language of the Constitution, I credit the integrity of the US military for preserving what we care about so I am interested in your thoughts, your real thoughts. You can hold the Karo, I don't need anymore."

The most decent people I've known, with very little exception, were the people I met in the service. That being said, I think it's more a sense of fair play. For whatever reason, the sense of fair play still predominates and keeps us afloat.

Hope that answers your questions, and thanks for asking my opinion.

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 5, 2011 9:38 PM | Report abuse

"to level the playing field" is the central challenge of all of our better instincts, religious, social, moral and even political.

But that is not possible. Ideas and powers change hands, the playing field tips, the playing field is still never level. Then people argue about which is worse, they compare the "struggle" of the public employee unions as to that of the descendants of slaves.

But ruk, I don't feel like wasting electrons, let alone key strokes (oh the adenosine-5'-triphosphate!). My particular view of the road ahead is not what this post-it board is about.

If you would like to talk about a different kind of socialism, I'd be glad to send you an e-mail address.


Posted by: shrink2 | March 5, 2011 9:56 PM | Report abuse

JPRS,

As I said upthread, I didn't break out the NEAP catagories, the NEAP did it for us.

{{{Isn't that how y'all like to look at EVERYTHING, anyway? What gives?}}}

As to total student numbers, those are there also. Although how the aggregate would change the broken-out results seems a stretch...I mean are there additional statisically significant cohorts at either state that are not captured?

Who ya gonna believe, NEAP or your lyin' eyes?

Blind yourself...its for the kids.

Posted by: tao9 | March 5, 2011 9:58 PM | Report abuse

Young people believe in all that crap about free speech, for example. It takes the wisdom you get with age before you realize that you wouldn't risk a hangnail for anybody else's right to do or say anything. Protecting America is really only about protecting yourself, your family and maybe your friends.

==

Ugh. Reading this makes me want to take another shower, but I'd still feel unclean and wish I'd never stepped into this carnivore dung.

Good to know that my impressions of you "people" are accurate. You don't care about democracy or the noble ideals that inspired America's founders, and you'd be just as "patriotic" invading Poland for Hitler.

What a loathsome barbarian.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 5, 2011 9:59 PM | Report abuse

"TX, the largest "red" state, has a $25B+ shortfall for the next biennium. When I analyze the revenue side, I note the drop in sales taxes b/c of the recession, the under-performance of the revised tax on businesses as the exemptions carved out made it a revenue killer instead of a revenue increaser, and, most notably, the extension of the 1998 or so tax break for natural gas drilling far beyond the need for it, once the big new fields came in around 2005. This last accounts for about half of the shortfall.

Our lege is incapable of closing a loophole or an exemption, however, IMO.

Chuck?
Troll?"

Hi mark! For the record, I give a rats a$$ what you think. Your comments are one of the reasons to read this comment section. I think that governments, State, County, Federal, whatever, should only spend as much as what they would bring in during a deep economic downturn. The Feds can have an Existential Threat exemption. So, for me, slashing Texas Government spending at all levels is a good thing. I'm sorry, I've dealt with school districts in a number of different capacities in a number of different states and they all have something in common, they wast at least 30% of their budget due to corruption and Administrator's salaries, though some might argue that they are the same thing. I literally think you could cut any given school districts budget by 30% and it would have very little if any impact on performance. I'd also cut out every extracurricular activity, sports, band, you name it. Those things can and should be handled by those that are interested in it. School should be about the basics, I think. You want band, chorus, football and drama? Do it yourself.

My suggestion for the lege? Cut every department across the board by whatever percent it takes to balance the budget. Then, require a Constitutional Amendment that forbids increased State spending, other than a very small percentage associated with legal population increase or decreases based on the census, and keeps State spending equal to the average revenue the State garnered from, say, 2008 through 2011.

Hope that answers your questions, and I hope you're having a great day!

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 5, 2011 9:59 PM | Report abuse

As I've said, the utter certainty of the destruction a Palin candidacy would work on the conservative movement and the Republican Party's electoral chances up the road, she would have to be tossed into a dumpster by the folks who really run the show.

That began, subtly as was necessary, by the Kristol circle and, as I said, would have to be followed with marginalization by and within FOX. And here's how that gets done...

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/sarah-palin-gets-snippy-when-oreilly

As Neiwert says...

"In the meantime, you have to wonder how much longer Palin is going to enjoy her free ride at Fox. If O'Reilly is toughening up on her, that probably means Roger Ailes is getting close to throwing her to the wolves."

Ailes' arthritic soul has little purpose outside of crushing liberalism. It's his life's work. Watch now as this marginalization of Palin continues under his tutelage. Beck, too.

Posted by: bernielatham | March 5, 2011 10:01 PM | Report abuse

"That was a cheap shot, even from a Tarheel.:-)"

Yeah, I guess I should take it easy. We just won by 14. No need to gloat.

Any half-decent showing in the ACC Tournament and we should get a #2 seed.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 5, 2011 10:04 PM | Report abuse

Bernie, Good to see you back!

{{{ let's bicker ;>) }}}

Posted by: tao9 | March 5, 2011 10:18 PM | Report abuse

"Ugh. Reading this makes me want to take another shower, but I'd still feel unclean and wish I'd never stepped into this carnivore dung.

Good to know that my impressions of you "people" are accurate. You don't care about democracy or the noble ideals that inspired America's founders, and you'd be just as "patriotic" invading Poland for Hitler.

What a loathsome barbarian."

Hi cao! I hope you're having an outstanding morning! I'm glad your back, and thank you for reading my comment(s), it means a lot to me. Obviously, I'm disappointed in your opinion of my comment(s) and of me. Of all the commenters here, you are one of my most valued. I'm going to have to rethink my world view if it's meeting with such disapproval from you. Please tell me, in as much detail as you care to share, where I'm wrong and if it has bearing on whether you think I'm a good person or an evil one.

Thanks in advance! As you know, I love your comments! ;-)

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 5, 2011 10:19 PM | Report abuse

Ideals are for suckers

==

No, ideals are for fully-formed human beings. Without ideals there are only drives.

You have defined the essential difference between liberals and conservatives and shown yourself to be utterly barren.

And save the corn syrup, I'm not buying. You stink.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 5, 2011 10:30 PM | Report abuse

Troll, let's say that we can cut all spending to meet revenue, this biennium. It will challenge the school districts to cut that 30% waste you suggest, or the 10% I'd be inclined to concede from my own observations. But say we do it.

Do you think the severance tax exemption we passed when o&g pricing was so low that no one would drill without an incentive should continue, now that profits justify drilling without incentives?

Obviously I favor discontinuing the incentives.

We replaced the franchise tax with the margins tax, in order to gain revenue by broadening the base to include limited partnerships. But then we raised the exemption so that now instead of a franchise tax for nearly all corporations, this year any biz under $1M gross is exempt.

So moving the discussion from "raising taxes" to "who are we going to favor with exemptions?" is my goal, here.

Thanks for engaging; I share the desire to cut waste, and think there is more in the TXDOT than anywhere else in TX.
I think Medina's $1B missing turned out never to have been there, but the carelessness of the accounting was kinda staggering.


Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 5, 2011 10:30 PM | Report abuse

There are plenty of TV spots on the airwaves in Wisconsin from both sides.

This ad may be hard hitting and be the first to take aim at Republican Senators, but I did not find it as powerful as the ad with a Racine, WI fireman making the case against the Walker budget bill.

Regardless of the ad wars now its going to come down to a recall election in 2012. There is no question Walker will face a recall election. The real question is will he change his course to salvage some of his base to make that recall election close.

Posted by: Andy94 | March 5, 2011 10:36 PM | Report abuse

"The most decent people I've known, with very little exception, were the people I met in the service. That being said, I think it's more a sense of fair play. For whatever reason, the sense of fair play still predominates and keeps us afloat."

I agree. I call that socialism. The American military is what socialism is all about. What a paradox.

But not really. American market distortions are all corrupt and we can do better. America is on a mission because slavery was its original sin. Americans are pleased with anything better than what was before and that is huge, a moral politics driver.

It is a big problem for places like China and Iran, they believe that things were better there a long time ago, they are conservative in a way we don't understand. America looks forward, America gets better.

Conservatives can't win the future of a culture that has everything to gain. Decadence and corruption are the only things that can ruin America. I hope we are up to the challenge.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 5, 2011 10:41 PM | Report abuse

"No, ideals are for fully-formed human beings. Without ideals there are only drives.

You have defined the essential difference between liberals and conservatives and shown yourself to be utterly barren.

And save the corn syrup, I'm not buying. You stink."

Hi cao! Again, many thanks for answering. :-) So, was my defining the "essential difference between liberals and conservatives" completely satisfying? Would you add anything else? Also, for the record, I have no children though I have and do take precautions to avoid unwanted pregnancy. That being said, I can't swear to my own fertility. How is it you know it? See, it's your knowledge in subjects like that, that is so utterly engrossing. It's why I cherish our exchanges, as I'm sure you do as well. ;-)

And how is that you know I literally stink!?!?!?!? I've done yard word today and worked up a sweat. Bacteria being what it is, they are excreting compounds which smell. Bad. Your ability to discern this is both breathtaking and awe-inspiring! :-)

I'm looking forward to your further critiques! I hope you are having a great day! ;-)

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 5, 2011 10:52 PM | Report abuse

Ddawd, my sister is a retired PhD, staff at UNC. Big win tonight!

Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 5, 2011 10:54 PM | Report abuse

"Troll, let's say that we can cut all spending to meet revenue, this biennium. It will challenge the school districts to cut that 30% waste you suggest, or the 10% I'd be inclined to concede from my own observations. But say we do it.

Do you think the severance tax exemption we passed when o&g pricing was so low that no one would drill without an incentive should continue, now that profits justify drilling without incentives?

Obviously I favor discontinuing the incentives."

I admit to deep ignorance on the tax structure here. I would agree with you that I'd discontinue the incentives. It's interesting, starting in the spring of 2008, the broken down rigs in my area, suburb south of Houston, started pumping again and haven't stopped. In fact, I've seen drilling at 4 different sites within eyesight of the Texas Medical Center. Yeah, we should have rolled those back in 2008.

"We replaced the franchise tax with the margins tax, in order to gain revenue by broadening the base to include limited partnerships. But then we raised the exemption so that now instead of a franchise tax for nearly all corporations, this year any biz under $1M gross is exempt."

I think some of that was feel goodism about the old saw that small businesses create most of the jobs coming out of a recession. I'd favor a reduction down to, like $250,000. Below $250k, you're dealing with mom and pop shops and startups. I think they deserve a continued break as I think they've done a much better job of keeping employees, even when revenue is way down, because they value them and what they bring to the business. I don't have any statistics, it's just something I've observed.

So moving the discussion from "raising taxes" to "who are we going to favor with exemptions?" is my goal, here.

Thanks for engaging; I share the desire to cut waste, and think there is more in the TXDOT than anywhere else in TX."

Wow! I agree and am embarrassed I didn't think of that!

"I think Medina's $1B missing turned out never to have been there, but the carelessness of the accounting was kinda staggering."

Yikes, but you're right. The carelessness though, isn't as surprising as it should be.

Have a great evening.

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 5, 2011 11:10 PM | Report abuse

TrollMcWingnut, you are doing a great job of driving him away. Keep it up!

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 5, 2011 11:28 PM | Report abuse

"I agree. I call that socialism. The American military is what socialism is all about. What a paradox."

Interesting, especially since I think, it least up to the mid-level officer ranks, that the military is about as pure a meritocracy as you can get. Does that fit in your thinking?

"But not really. American market distortions are all corrupt and we can do better. America is on a mission because slavery was its original sin. Americans are pleased with anything better than what was before and that is huge, a moral politics driver."

Well, some of the distortions are from corruption, particularly government policy creating moral hazards, and some are from government policy without thought or concern to unintended consequences. Slavery was our original sin and is something that should not be forgotten or ignored (I'm looking at you Arab world.) You put your finger on it though, we love the idea of improvement, that the collective "we" are improving it, and successful politicians are the ones who can capitalize on that concept.

"It is a big problem for places like China and Iran, they believe that things were better there a long time ago, they are conservative in a way we don't understand. America looks forward, America gets better."

I think I would add that I feel more a part of the government than perhaps they do, and less connected to some sort of thousands of years long history that dictates our future.I guess I think we are less constrained, for better and worse, by what we're supposed to know is not possible.

"Conservatives can't win the future of a culture that has everything to gain. Decadence and corruption are the only things that can ruin America. I hope we are up to the challenge. "

They can if they can convince enough of the electorate that the opposition has consigned their country and it's populace to a lesser status because it's not fair to be First in everything. Ultimately, I think we probably are up to the challenge, unless the idea that we do not deserve better because of our past failings takes root.

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 5, 2011 11:35 PM | Report abuse

This is really interesting and important if it's true. Skip and I had a discussion about this a couple of weeks ago and qb always brings it up as well, it supposedly costs a little over $1 billion to bring a new drug to the market. It's one of the reasons given for dragging out the length of time for patents and squeezing out the generics. A new study finds those costs are very exaggerated. The piece in Slate is just an overview but there's a link to the study in the piece, wonder if it's true.

""When Light and Warburton correct for all these flaws—well, all the ones that can be quantified—they end up with an average cost of bringing a drug to market that's $59 million and a median cost that's $43 million. In 2011 dollars, that's a $75 million average and a $55 million median.

So the drug companies' $1.32 billion estimate was off, according to Light and Warburton, by only $977 million. Let's call it a rounding error.""

http://www.slate.com/id/2287227/?from=rss

Posted by: lmsinca | March 5, 2011 11:53 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, Mark. Losing to UT seems to have knocked something loose. Who knew that UNC would win the ACC?

But I'm sure we're both excited for the tournament. UNC and UT shouldn't be any lower than a 3 seed.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 6, 2011 1:18 AM | Report abuse

"In the meantime, you have to wonder how much longer Palin is going to enjoy her free ride at Fox. If O'Reilly is toughening up on her, that probably means Roger Ailes is getting close to throwing her to the wolves."

I think Beck and Hannity are the real bellweathers of the station's opinion. O'Reilly is relatively centrist. (Watch his show, I think you'll agree with him a lot more than you don't)

If something is too Conservative for Hannity, it's too Conservative for FOX. You can't say the same thing about O'Reilly.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 6, 2011 1:37 AM | Report abuse

Mark, one of my regrets in life. Tulane University is in the same conference as Memphis. I've missed out on the chance to see Derrick Rose and Tyreke Evans in person.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 6, 2011 2:48 AM | Report abuse

All, a fresh OPEN THREAD for you:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/03/sunday_open_thread_24.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | March 6, 2011 8:04 AM | Report abuse

"In the meantime, you have to wonder how much longer Palin is going to enjoy her free ride at Fox. If O'Reilly is toughening up on her, that probably means Roger Ailes is getting close to throwing her to the wolves."

==

Well it's been well over two years and there has never been a single upward tick in metrics of her political caliber, nor has she learned anything, and her inability to handle criticism, or even disagreement, has become her most defining feature.

I don't think it's GOP loyalists reading the polls. I think it's GOP loyalists agreeing with them.

Posted by: caothien9 | March 6, 2011 8:40 AM | Report abuse

lms,

I don't have a lot of time, but re your drug research link above, I find that article (really the underlying study, as presented) a bit far-fetched and pretty obviously result-driven. I'm no a pharma economist, but I do represent drug companies and I have significant familiarity with R&D programs and budgets and what it takes to "bring a new drug to market."

Just a couple of obvious things that jumped out at me:

It doesn't appear that the authors account for all the R&D that typically goes into X number of drugs that don't pan out for every one that does. It's like saying that the costs of oil exploration and drilling are limited to drilling wells that actually produce.

They say clinical trials take on average 4.5 years. I don't know whether anyone really knows what that figure is, but I know there are many clinical trial programs that are much, much longer and more expensive than the authors suppose. I've seen programs terminated because clinical trials were projected to be too expensive against projected revenues in the hundreds of millions. Obviously, you'll see that there is judgment involved in those decisions over the likelihood of success and approval, etc., but you can see that companies have to expect a lot of sales to justify the investment.

Even if you take the new study's average of 75 million, suppose you thought your odds of getting a the target indication approved are 50/50. How much do you have to plan to sell to justify that investment? Suppose, more realistically, you think they are 20/80 or 10/90? You have to dig a lot of dry holes to strike oil. Now imagine how your decsion making changes if competitors can knock off your discovery as soon as they want, or even after 5 years.

There doesn't seem to be any debate that drugs are among the most expensive products to develop and produce, whatever the accurate figures are. If you want to experiment, you can always strip them of patent protection and see what happens. I think you would be surprised how market forces still turn out to be real.

Posted by: quarterback1 | March 6, 2011 8:41 AM | Report abuse

qb

Thanks for the insight. I thought it was an interesting piece in that it challenged the conventional wisdom regarding the development costs of a new drug. I don't have enough experience or insight in this area to know how valid the study is, but I believe it's important to question the assertions made by the big pharmaceuticals.

"You have to dig a lot of dry holes to strike oil."

Actually, from my understanding this isn't really the case anymore but I think the money is spent in the research department of the company and the big universities where they are getting a great bargain for the investment. By the time they dig they know what's there. As with any research the previous findings are added into the new findings and changes the cost/benefit analysis going forward.

You made some great points though, thanks.

Posted by: lmsinca | March 6, 2011 9:03 AM | Report abuse

I am impressed by Friedman's analogy this morning.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/06/opinion/06friedman.html?_r=1&src=ISMR_HP_LO_MST_FB

The concluding paragraph [but not the analogy]:

*I know we can’t just walk out of Afghanistan and Pakistan; there are good people, too, in both places. But our involvement in these two countries — 150,000 troops to confront Al Qaeda — is totally out of proportion today with our interests and out of all sync with our values.*

I am closer to both Shrink and Brigade on AFG than I have been.

Read the link and see what you think about the analogy, and about the nod to India. It tentatively rings true for me. I would welcome critical analysis that agrees or disagrees with the ideas in the column. Not interested in ad hominem attacks on Friedman and how he was wrong on blah blah blah.

I was wrong on blah blah blah too. Big deal, so what. Tends to urge me to learn more so I can get it right next time.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 6, 2011 9:22 AM | Report abuse

@mark,

Before I could buy into Friedman's conclusion that we should spend some of the $110b we are spending on U.S. education for young Egyptians/Tunisians, I would want to know the outside parameters for our involvement. If we can't walk out entirely, what is the minimum force to still be in country, and still accomplish our remaining mission (whatever that is). I personally no longer know what our mission is there.

Do we already have education programs for young Middle Easterners? I'll bet we do. That's not to say that additional funding might not be appropriate.

Friedman ties the two decisions up in a nice package. One decision is the reduce our involvement in the two countries to something less. The other decision is what to do with the money saved. The first decision is by far the more important as we can always come up with something to do with extra money, even if it is to pay back the Chinese.

As an aside, I have a friend who is Afghan. Long ago, right after Karsai was installed, I asked him whether he approved of the changes. He said that the only changes he saw were that the same warlords now had official government titles. They were now Minister of this or that.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | March 6, 2011 10:05 AM | Report abuse

what if
What if the conversation Scott Walker had with the fake David Koch went different. Suppose Gov Walker said "Thanks for calling David. I wanted to talk to you about something. As you know I promised Wisconsinites 250,000 new jobs over the next 4 years, that works out to 177 new jobs per day. I ve fallen behind a little because so far I've only eliminated jobs, which I feel bad about so I was wondering can I count on Koch Industries to help out, by creating some new jobs here in wisconsin. Sorry I have to cut this conversation short but I have a long list of industry leaders to call." That would have been nice

Posted by: bcmadisonwi | March 6, 2011 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Unfortunately collective bargaining is the tip of the iceberg. The following are also included in Scott Walker's proposals: decreasing State funds to public schools (increasing choice school funding while not requiring choice schools to show they match up in State tests in comparison); requiring that charter school teachers have only a bachelor's degree to teach, rather than a teacher's license; tearing apart the UW college system and decreasing funding for the smaller schools; restricting monies to the Wisconsin library system (one of the most open in the country); cutting 30% of the State’s Technical College system's funding, eliminating grant programs for Advanced Placement courses and science, technology, engineering and mathematics education; cutting and restricting social services in Wisconsin such as BadgerCare and Family Care, which provides in-home services for the elderly and those with disabilities; eliminating all state subsidies to local units of government to pay for recycling; allowing the Department of Administration to SELL state heating plants without bid (you’re welcome Koch); and allowing the Secretary of the Department of Health services to make changes to the Wisconsin Medicaid program without going to the full legislature, reducing the right of the public to input via representation….and the list goes on…

Also note, that Scott Walker does not need to decimate Wisconsin in this way to meet his budget (a crisis btw he created, but that is another article)

"Number of teachers in Wisconsin: 59,552
Number of millionaires in Wisconsin: 89,977

Average Wisconsin teacher salary: $46,390 (US rank: 28th among all states) Typical wage cut faced by a Wisconsin school teacher if Gov. Scott Walker's non- negotiable give-backs are enacted: $5,567 to 6,958 per year (based on net total compensation reduction caused by Walker's plan).

Continuing average income boost for millionaires in Wisconsin and elsewhere, thanks to the recent extension of 2001 Bush-era federal tax cuts: Approximately $100,000 per year.

If the State of Wisconsin increased taxes on resident millionaires to take back just one-twentieth of the extra money they've been keeping in their pockets thanks to the Bush tax cuts, that would totally wipe out the need to slash teacher salaries under Walker's scheme. Totally."
(http://open.salon.com/blog/ron_legro/2011/03/04/in_wisconsin_its_teachers_vs_millionaires )

Oh, and If you can read this comment, thank a teacher.

Thank a union for the following: two paid 15 minute breaks a day; 8 or 9 paid holidays a year; 40 hour work weeks; Overtime pay for required work in excess of 40 hours a week. Workers Compensation if you are injured on the job. Family & Medical Leave to assure you have a job to come back to if you have to take unpaid time off for a family emergency or the birth of a child. Unemployment INSURANCE protection if you lose your job through no fault of your own. And more that won't fit here...

Posted by: TCPhlo | March 6, 2011 11:29 PM | Report abuse

With mortgage rates at all-time lows, now may be a great time to refinance -- if you meet new stringent criteria. Search online for 123 Mortgage Refinance they got me the 3.21% rate even with my not so good credit history.

Posted by: richardfox345 | March 7, 2011 4:46 AM | Report abuse

There is a recall "pledge" sign up going around at UNITEDWISCONSIN.COM. We cant start the actual petition until nov 3rd with the goal of recall election jan 3rd 2012. Sign up so we can get hold of you when the petition statrs!
Also petitions to recall 8 republican senators underway now. Info at RECALLTHEREPUBLICAN8.COM
Please help spread these links!

Posted by: ImnotTHATscott | March 7, 2011 6:56 AM | Report abuse

Wisconsin voters can also sign up for the recall efforts against the 12 AWOL State Senators:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread667819/pg1

Posted by: clawrence12 | March 7, 2011 8:40 AM | Report abuse

Walker is a Kochsucker.

Posted by: areyousaying | March 7, 2011 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, let's recall everybody, that should balance the budget.

For whichever commenter that was worried about union money making these ads, I don't think they will sway many people here. Everyone here already knows all this stuff. Besides we have just suffered through 3 days of hearing about an "Americans for Prosperity" bus that drove into Wisconsin from somewhere else loaded with Walker supporters. He still seems to have 30% support. Must be people without kids or people who send their kids to private schools.

Wisconsin law doesn't let people get recalled until they've been in office for one full year, so we have some time before recalling Walker would become an issue, and things can change.

Walker could still save himself by negotiating and taking out the collective bargaining rights language from the Budget Repair Bill. I think the Democrats should hold out and make him also beg Obama for the high speed rail money that the Florida governor gave up. That would be redemption!

Posted by: georgia198305 | March 7, 2011 11:56 PM | Report abuse

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