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Posted at 12:11 PM ET, 03/ 9/2011

Only conservatives and Tea Partyers think Islam encourages violence

By Greg Sargent

With Pete King set to kick off his hearings into the radicalization of Muslims tomorrow, Pew Research comes through with a new poll providing some invaluable public opinion context.

In particular, Pew finds that the only group to think Islam is more likely than other religions to encourage violence are conservative Repubilcans and Tea Partyers. Both groups overwhelmingly endorse this view, with two thirds of each agreeing with it.

By contrast, not even moderate Republicans as a group believe this: 46 percent support this view, while 47 percent oppose it. This view is also opposed by independents (38-44) and the broader public at large (40-42).

King, of course, would probably insist that he doesn't believe Islam is more likely than other religions to encourage violence. But his repeated statements justifying his hearings seem designed to support this view. He has claimed without evidence that 80 percent of America mosques are radicalized. He has suggested that too many American Muslims fail to cooperate with law enforcement to foil terror plots. And he has insisted that we must only focus the hearings on radicalization committed by those of a single religion -- Muslims -- because to do otherwise would be "politically correct."

It's good to see that large swaths of the public -- including moderate Republicans and independents -- reject the worldview King seems so determined to nurture and encourage with his Congressional three ring circus act.

UPDATE, 12:29 p.m.: I should add that the 40 percent of the broader public who think Islam is more likely to encourage violence is uncomfortably large. But the point is, conservatives and Tea Partyers are the only groups in which far, far more believe this than disagree with it.

By Greg Sargent  | March 9, 2011; 12:11 PM ET
Categories:  Foreign policy and national security, House GOPers  
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Comments

Congressman West: Muslim Brotherhood the "Mothership" of all Islamic Terror Groups
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2011/March/Stakelbeck-on-Terror-Allen-West-Takes-on-Jihad/

CBN News sits down for an exclusive interview with Florida congressman Allen West.

After serving in Afghanistan and Iraq, the former Army lieutenant colonel is now taking on a new battlefield -- Washington, D.C.

Watch as he talks about homegrown jihad, the Muslim Brotherhood, Iran, Israel and more.

*West-tastic*

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | March 9, 2011 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Is this finding not as predictable as a KDE/clawrence-jake/skippy post?

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 9, 2011 12:20 PM | Report abuse

*BREAKING*

Posterboy for Moderate Islam Gets 25 Years for Beheading His Wife
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/09/new-york-television-executive-faces-sentencing-beheading-wife/?test=latestnews

"Muzzammil Hassan had tried to convince jurors the death was justified, claiming he’d been abused by his wife and was afraid of her... Together, the Hassans started the Muslim-oriented Bridges TV network as a way to counter negative media images of Muslims after 9/11 and build cultural understanding."

*understanding*

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | March 9, 2011 12:23 PM | Report abuse

And yet, America has military deployed in two Muslim Countries as we speak. It also established large military bases in Saudia Arabia, for a long period of time. It also set up a military barracks in Lebanon, and shelled Lebanon from the sea, until the Marine barracks got blown up, and Reagan ran away. It still has military installations in Kuwait,and Bahrain.

Name one Muslim nation that has every established one military base in the United States?

Posted by: Liam-still | March 9, 2011 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Gitmo:

Has the US stopped sending new detainees there?

I would like to discuss the situation in detail, but I would first like to know if all the current detainees(less than two hundred) are not being added to.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 9, 2011 12:29 PM | Report abuse

"Name one Muslim nation that has every established one military base in the United States?"

The ground zero mosque clearly is just a beachhead for the invasion. /sarc

Posted by: NoVAHockey | March 9, 2011 12:29 PM | Report abuse

"Gates said new detainees are not being sent to Guantanamo “at this point” and that the center is unlikely to close, at least for now."

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=62876

Posted by: NoVAHockey | March 9, 2011 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Just five minutes ago, my wife (who is Muslim) is cooking and preparing an informational table at a 'Celebration of the World' event for the local school system or whatever, about Indonesia. I was joking she should dress in her traditional prayer outfit and do a suicide vest demonstration for the kids. She said, "You know a lot of these parents are rednecks and they wouldn't think that was funny."

Posted by: shrink2 | March 9, 2011 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Can someone define the difference between 'radical Islam' and 'orthodox Islam'?

Posted by: tealover | March 9, 2011 12:39 PM | Report abuse

"In particular, Pew finds that the only group to think Islam is more likely than other religions to encourage violence are conservative Repubilcans and Tea Partyers. Both groups overwhelmingly endorse this view, with two thirds of each agreeing with it."

So which group is Bill Maher in?

Posted by: jnc4p | March 9, 2011 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Liam -- i don't think we are. i believe we just send them to other places.

"Gates said new detainees are not being sent to Guantanamo “at this point” and that the center is unlikely to close, at least for now."

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=62876


Posted by: NoVAHockey | March 9, 2011 12:22 PM

......................

Nova,

I came across your response, after I had posted my question on this thread.

If we are keeping new detainees in other places, where can those places be. Are we keeping those we capture in Afghanistan, in camps over there, or are we handing them over to the Afghanistan Forces to hold them?

The reason why I as that question is:

If we have some people in Gitmo, that were taken off the battlefield in Afghanistan, but we can not try them here, because of lack of evidence, why not ship those people back to the Afghan government.

That might get rid of the vast majority of the remaining detainees.

If we have solid evidence on the remaining hard core detainees, then why not try them. If the only evidence we have on them, was extracted by water boarding etc, and it can not be admitted in a trial, then we should probably cut our losses, and just send them back.

As I understand it, those people have been in Gitmo for several years, so time has passed them by, and even if they return to Al Qaeda, they will not be a bigger threat than all those who have joined Al Qaeda and moved up through the ranks, while those guys were in Gitmo.

Why keep on pretending that the few out of touch hard core guys that we can not put on trial, would make a huge difference in our struggle against the terrorist movement. It wouldn't, and if it really would, and just a handful of additional old terrorists would bring us down, then we might as well stop wasting hundreds of billions of dollars each year, because we sure as hell would not be getting much for our money.

I say disperse them back to where we took them from, or try and convict them, and close Gitmo down. It makes us look like we are running an offshore Gulag Operation.

Time to wash our hands, and rinse away what ever grime we accumulated on them in the past.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 9, 2011 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Anyone that reads the Koran can see that violence is promoted and encouraged against any non-muslim.

Posted by: ignoranceisbliss | March 9, 2011 12:50 PM | Report abuse

[shrink2: "You know a lot of these parents are rednecks and they wouldn't think that was funny."]

WTF? Would anyone? Would non-"rednecks"?

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | March 9, 2011 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Why be uncomfortable Mr Sargent? Don't you trust that the American people will understand the nature of the enemy here?

My theory about the left's love of Islam, and contempt for other faiths has to do with mutually held goals. Both the left and Islam seek the destruction of America in specific and capitalism in general.

They rely on a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" mindset.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | March 9, 2011 12:50 PM | Report abuse

@ Liam-still "If we have solid evidence on the remaining hard core detainees, then why not try them. If the only evidence we have on them, was extracted by water boarding etc, and it can not be admitted in a trial, then we should probably cut our losses, and just send them back.

As I understand it, those people have been in Gitmo for several years, so time has passed them by, and even if they return to Al Qaeda, they will not be a bigger threat than all those who have joined Al Qaeda and moved up through the ranks, while those guys were in Gitmo.

Why keep on pretending that the few out of touch hard core guys that we can not put on trial, would make a huge difference in our struggle against the terrorist movement. It wouldn't, and if it really would, and just a handful of additional old terrorists would bring us down, then we might as well stop wasting hundreds of billions of dollars each year, because we sure as hell would not be getting much for our money.

I say disperse them back to where we took them from, or try and convict them, and close Gitmo down. It makes us look like we are running an offshore Gulag Operation.

Time to wash our hands, and rinse away what ever grime we accumulated on them in the past."

You could give them a 30 second head start after you put them back and then hit them with a drone attack. That seems to be the Obama administrations preferred method of dealing with suspected terrorists.

Posted by: jnc4p | March 9, 2011 12:51 PM | Report abuse

The Headline of this story seams to contradict the content, but not the views held by the writer which have distorted it, like any good liberal progressive extremist.

Posted by: ignoranceisbliss | March 9, 2011 12:52 PM | Report abuse

"Anyone that reads the Koran can see that violence is promoted and encouraged against any non-muslim."

So can anyone who reads the old testament (violence towards non-believers). The only religion that doesn't mix violence is Buddhism and even that has sects that practice violence.

Lift off your FoxNews veil and take a look at the real world please. Time is running out.

Posted by: Alex3 | March 9, 2011 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Gallup: Obama job approval hits 2011 low
http://www.gallup.com/poll/146522/Obama-Weekly-Job-Approval-Retreats.aspx

Good news: The Obamateur remains wildly popular in DC (84.4% approval) and Hawaii (65.9%). That’s seven (lucky 7!)of the 270 electoral votes he needs to keep living in the White House with his mother-in-law.

Bad News: The Obamateur’s job approval went down in all 50 states.

*TEA-rific!*

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | March 9, 2011 12:56 PM | Report abuse

You are really stretching things beyond their limits when citing some of these poll results, Greg. For example, you try to portray conservative Republicans as having very extreme views, by noting that "not even moderate Republicans as a group believe" Islam is more likely than other religions to encourage violence as 46 percent support this view, while 47 percent oppose it. But if you look at the poll's internals, you see that only 101 moderate/liberal Republicans were surveyed, meaning there could be a 12 percentage point margin of error. That's a huge margin of error. Oh, it is possible that the breakdown is 40-60, but I'd wager it more likely goes the other way.

The margin of error for the public at large was 3 percent, and for independents, 5.5.

It doesn't look to me like their sample is too representative of the public at large, but I'd have to leave it to others who are more expert than I am to get to the bottom of that.

Posted by: dakotadoug83 | March 9, 2011 12:56 PM | Report abuse

As liberal as I am, and as politically correct as I want to be, I have to say I have my leanings to those who see it "more likely to encourage violence".

The problem is that the moderates in Islam remain publicly very quiet about their crazy brethren. The only time they speak up is in a "CYA" effort ("Hey! It's not us! Don't blame us!").

If followers of Islam want the world to believe they are indeed a peaceful religion, they have to SHOUT OUT and overpower the crazy few on the end of the spectrum with their vehemence about non-violence, moderation and tolerance.

And yes, that means recognizing Israel's right to exist and giving the Jewish people the same tolerance and benefit of the doubt they ask for themselves.

Posted by: kiernanje | March 9, 2011 12:56 PM | Report abuse

"But the point is, conservatives and Tea Partyers are the only groups in which far, far more believe this than disagree with it."

They're also the lions share of those that believe Pres. Obama wasn't born in the US or is a muslim. It's a trend...and not a very flattering one.

Posted by: JilliB | March 9, 2011 1:00 PM | Report abuse

All this makes it pretty apparent the "Christian" right hate Christianity as a whole and think Jesus was a dirt bag.

Shame on them.

Between Kaddafi and skip, I can't figure out who thinks Jesus was more of a loser.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | March 9, 2011 1:00 PM | Report abuse

"If we are keeping new detainees in other places, where can those places be"

unfortunately, i think the lesson this administration, and future administrations will take from the Gitmo debacle, is that if you're going to have such a place, you keep it secret.

Posted by: NoVAHockey | March 9, 2011 1:00 PM | Report abuse

jnc4p: "So which group is Bill Maher in?"

Ummm...Bill is in a group unto himself. :D

But, now in all seriousness, the Diocese of Philadelphia just suspended 21 priests with credible accusations sexual abuse of children, who were still active in their ministry. A grand jury report indicating a widespread cover up is what led to the mass suspensions.

For all that is said about Muslims, al Queda and the violence of Koran, etc. why there has not been more outcry about the Catholic church and their violence towards children is beyond me. This is and has been a systemic, long term criminal problem. And yes, I see it as violence against children.

As someone born, raised in the church and attended 12 years of Catholic school, I am just totally appalled.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/09/us/09priests.html?_r=1

Posted by: suekzoo1 | March 9, 2011 1:01 PM | Report abuse

My theory about the left's love of Islam, and contempt for other faiths has to do with mutually held goals. Both the left and Islam seek the destruction of America in specific and capitalism in general.

They rely on a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" mindset.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | March 9, 2011 12:50 PM |

---

Wow skip, you're a regular Einstein. What are you 12?

Posted by: JilliB | March 9, 2011 1:04 PM | Report abuse

"So can anyone who reads the old testament (violence towards non-believers)."

True. But in Islam, there is no New Testament, no Jesus, the Prince of Peace, no redemption through faith alone.

And it is also true the way the Shia and the Sunni 'clergy' regard each other is a state of permanent war.

And it is also true that the brutality of the reformation and the counter-reformation, the Inquisition, the treatment of natives in the hands of the Jesuits and Dominicans, all that happened in spite of the Prince of Peace and the Sermon on the Mount.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 9, 2011 1:04 PM | Report abuse

I am not against taking out terrorists with drone strikes, and if they chose to gather in compounds, with their families, they are the ones who are putting their families at risk. Besides; we only have the words of the terrorists, in those remote NW Pakistan regions, that our drone strikes have been killing innocent civilians. No one is allowed to go there, and report on an ongoing basis. The Taliban will not allow it, so I take their claims with a huge pile of salt.

If Al Qaeda clusters together with their families in the same compounds, then the death of their families is on their hands.

I would not be against putting some sort of tracking device, if such a micro device is available, on those we would send back, just to see where they might lead us too.

Never the less; if we made the huge mistake of torturing people, and we are now ashamed to have it come out, we need to stop trying to keep the lid on that history.

Ship the battlefield captives back to the Afghan authorities, and then either try and convict the Al Qaeda types, or release those we can not try, on a dribble out basis of one a week. That will dampen down any torture publicity that Al Qaeda might be able to churn out. Because it will only be a fresh story, the first time they put one of the released guys on a video. After that, each new release, will be just telling the same old story, and the world will tune them out.

Pull the damn band aid of, and get it over with, Mr. President.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 9, 2011 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Wow.

"David Broder dies; Pulitzer-winning Washington Post political columnist"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/09/AR2011030902821.html?hpid=top

Posted by: jnc4p | March 9, 2011 1:05 PM | Report abuse

OT

David Broder has died.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/local-breaking-news/dc/post-political-columnist-david.html

Posted by: suekzoo1 | March 9, 2011 1:06 PM | Report abuse

@Liam-still "I am not against taking out terrorists with drone strikes, and if they chose to gather in compounds, with their families, they are the ones who are putting their families at risk."

So you view this as less of a civil rights violation than indefinite detention at Guantanamo?

Posted by: jnc4p | March 9, 2011 1:08 PM | Report abuse

[Alex3 drooled: "anyone who reads the old testament (violence towards non-believers)."]

Biblical consummation is not equivalent to Koranic abrogation.

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | March 9, 2011 1:11 PM | Report abuse

""Ummm...Bill is in a group unto himself. :D""

Yes -- that very small group of people who not only would be naked with All Coulter, but also be apparently proud enough of the fact to boast about it in public.
.

Posted by: jprestonian | March 9, 2011 1:12 PM | Report abuse

For you folks who know what the words mean this is a bfd.
Mohamed el-Erian is a genius, imho.

"NEW YORK (Reuters) - PIMCO's Total Return Fund, the world's biggest bond fund, has dumped all U.S. government-related securities, including Treasuries and agency debt, a source familiar with the fund's holdings said on Wednesday.

In January, Pacific Investment Management Co.'s $236.9 billion Total Return fund slashed its U.S. government-related debt holdings to the lowest level in at least two years and increased cash and debt holdings from other developed nations.

Government-related securities include Treasuries, Treasury Inflation-Protected Securities, agencies, interest rate swaps, Treasury futures and options, and corporate securities guaranteed by the U.S. Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.

The Total Return Fund's cash holdings had surged to $54.5 billion as of February 28 from $11.9 billion at the end of January. A PIMCO spokesman declined to comment for this story.

Bill Gross, the fund's manager who helps oversee more than $1.1 trillion as PIMCO's co-chief investment officer, has often railed against U.S. deficit spending and its inflationary impact. He has advocated buying bonds with "safe," higher yields -- such as corporate bonds -- that can withstand possible erosion of returns by inflation.

In December, PIMCO said it may start investing up to 10 percent of its assets in "equity-related" securities, such as convertibles and preferred stock, after the first quarter of 2011.

"It's certainly an important signal in the sense that they are allocating away from Treasuries in favor of a higher spread product," said Christian Cooper, head of U.S. dollar derivatives trading at Jefferies & Co."

An inflection point? The people at the Fed are going to have to gab about this move.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 9, 2011 1:17 PM | Report abuse

[Liam whined: "And yet, (Obama) has military deployed in two Muslim Countries as we speak."]

What happened? Is Soros all out of punch and pie, lamebrains?

Why isn't billionaire progressive George Soros financing any unhinged Leftist rent-a-mob rallies against ObaMao's summary execution of (un-Mirandized!) civilians by Reaper drone airstrikes in Pakistan?

Afterall, The Obamateur's tactics were clearly more "violent" than Mubarak's secret police beatings.

The Obamateur's policy to use Reaper drones to target (un-Mirandized!) civilians has spiked without a peep. Get busy, progressives.

Soros should pay Rev. Wright to burn a Koran every day until The Obamateur regime flees the country.

*Rage against the machine*

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | March 9, 2011 1:18 PM | Report abuse

At one time the majority of the population believed the earth was flat. Truth does not rely on popular acceptance.

Since 9/11 there have been over 16,000 Muslim terror attacks around the world. There may have been a few non-Muslim terror attacks. But an overwhelming percentage were perpetrated by Muslims.

Why are the conservatives and Tea Partyers the only ones willing to admit the truth? What is the agenda of liberals from addressing the reality of Islam?

Posted by: bob311w9 | March 9, 2011 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Yes I do, and I do not worry much about the civil rights of proven terrorists, that are killed on their battleground.

We kill enemies combatants all the time, in war, with air strikes. We are allowed to do that, so killing Al-Qaeda and Taliban terrorists with such strikes in no different.

I would have no problem with killing any of those guys in Gitmo, in some Terrorist Compound, with drone strikes.

I recall George W. Bush launching a barrage of strikes, before he launched the invasion, because they had a tip about where Saddam was at, and they killed a thousand civilians with those strikes, and no one raised any stink about those casualties.

The problem is that Bush/Cheney were stupid enough to "go to the darkside", and now we are stuck with their waterboarded tar babies.

We should not continue to live with the shame of that past stupidity.

@Nova,

The US government will not ever be able to keep offshore black camps secret again, in the Wickileak era.

If we are running new undisclosed ones, it will come out eventually.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 9, 2011 1:21 PM | Report abuse

@shrink2 "For you folks who know what the words mean this is a bfd.
Mohamed el-Erian is a genius, imho.

"NEW YORK (Reuters) - PIMCO's Total Return Fund, the world's biggest bond fund, has dumped all U.S. government-related securities, including Treasuries and agency debt, a source familiar with the fund's holdings said on Wednesday.

In January, Pacific Investment Management Co.'s $236.9 billion Total Return fund slashed its U.S. government-related debt holdings to the lowest level in at least two years and increased cash and debt holdings from other developed nations.

Government-related securities include Treasuries, Treasury Inflation-Protected Securities, agencies, interest rate swaps, Treasury futures and options, and corporate securities guaranteed by the U.S. Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.

The Total Return Fund's cash holdings had surged to $54.5 billion as of February 28 from $11.9 billion at the end of January. A PIMCO spokesman declined to comment for this story.

Bill Gross, the fund's manager who helps oversee more than $1.1 trillion as PIMCO's co-chief investment officer, has often railed against U.S. deficit spending and its inflationary impact. He has advocated buying bonds with "safe," higher yields -- such as corporate bonds -- that can withstand possible erosion of returns by inflation.

In December, PIMCO said it may start investing up to 10 percent of its assets in "equity-related" securities, such as convertibles and preferred stock, after the first quarter of 2011.

"It's certainly an important signal in the sense that they are allocating away from Treasuries in favor of a higher spread product," said Christian Cooper, head of U.S. dollar derivatives trading at Jefferies & Co."

An inflection point? The people at the Fed are going to have to gab about this move."

Wow. Thanks shrink2. I guess it's started. Very happy I'm almost completely liquid right now.

Posted by: jnc4p | March 9, 2011 1:29 PM | Report abuse

"...the reality of Islam..."


"A New York television executive has been given the maximum sentence of between 25 years to life in prison for murdering his wife in 2009.

A jury last month found Pakistan-born Muzzammil Hassan guilty of stabbing Aasiya Hassan and beheading her six days after she filed for divorce."

Case Closed.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 9, 2011 1:30 PM | Report abuse

[Liam sneered: "waterboarded tar babies."]

Why isn't billionaire progressive George Soros financing any unhinged Leftist rent-a-mob rallies against ObaMao's summary execution of (un-Mirandized!) Somali coastguard volunteers?

Afterall, The Obamateur's tactics were clearly more "violent" than Bush's Gitmo moistenings.

The Obamateur's policy to use sniper fire to target (un-Mirandized!) Somali teens earns silent consent from progressives.

The two year anniversary of Obama's high seas shooting spree is weeks away. Get busy, Liam.

*Rage against the machine*

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | March 9, 2011 1:31 PM | Report abuse

The issue with Islam is that the words of their holy text are taken literally.

Further, the role of Mohammed (PBUH) is pivotal to the faith. The faithful try to be like him, a man. Where as the christians are urged to follow the teachings of Jesus, the son of God. the appellation "Sayyed" is a perfect example of this desire to be like their prophet.

Further, the christian reformation was ugly and took the better part of a century. If Islam requires a similar reformation, can this be accomplished without involving the rest of the world? Apparently not.

Islam, as it is currently practiced, is a major source of sorrow and woe in the world. We need to shed our PC foolishness and face this fact.

I'd like to comment on the Catholic church's on going priest scandal. This is really a heartbreak. Not just the abuse, but the failure of the church heirarchy to face it effectively. The cost of this to the church in America is hard to fathom. I drive past a closed catholic church frequently. It is a forlorn reminder that the clergy is human.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | March 9, 2011 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Got a link for your assertion there, Bob??????

Posted by: Michigoose | March 9, 2011 1:38 PM | Report abuse

@Liam-still "The US government will not ever be able to keep offshore black camps secret again, in the Wickileak era.

If we are running new undisclosed ones, it will come out eventually."

It's not undisclosed, it's at Bagram.

Posted by: jnc4p | March 9, 2011 1:38 PM | Report abuse

All, the new ad Rove's group is running attacking public employees misrepresnts the data of the right wing think tank study the ad itself cites as a source:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/03/right-leaning_think_tank_says.html

Posted by: Greg Sargent | March 9, 2011 1:40 PM | Report abuse

It's not undisclosed, it's at Bagram.

Posted by: jnc4p | March 9, 2011 1:38 PM

...........
That is already well known. I was addressing Nova, because he said he suspected that the lesson the government has learned is to now have set up other facilities that they will never reveal.

Try to keep up please.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 9, 2011 1:54 PM | Report abuse

So, why not send all those Gitmo detainees to Bagram, if that is what we are using the place for?

Bagram them. That does sound like the secret code that Babe was given to make the sheep obey commands. That'll do pig!

Posted by: Liam-still | March 9, 2011 1:58 PM | Report abuse

@Liam-still "It's not undisclosed, it's at Bagram.

Posted by: jnc4p | March 9, 2011 1:38 PM

...........
That is already well known. I was addressing Nova, because he said he suspected that the lesson the government has learned is to now have set up other facilities that they will never reveal.

Try to keep up please."

Yes, but the issue isn't that they are revealed to the public. It's getting a Federal judge to buy the argument that they are outside of Article III jurisdiction. The Obama administration seems to have been more successful with this approach with Bagram than Guantanamo.

Either way, both the Bush and Obama administration treat Article III oversight of the detainees as an impediment to their successful conduct of the war, not something to be embraced in the best civil liberties traditions of the country.

Posted by: jnc4p | March 9, 2011 2:07 PM | Report abuse

"I guess it's started. Very happy I'm almost completely liquid right now."

Yes, I hope it doesn't get too ugly. So many people have no choice where their pensions etc., are invested, though I imagine, at least as many do but don't know it, or don't want to, or simply can't figure it out.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 9, 2011 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Gitmo was always a stupid idea. What would they have done with those detainees, if we did not have that little Cuban enclave, that we pretend to both own/ and not own, at the same time?

Posted by: Liam-still | March 9, 2011 2:13 PM | Report abuse

I thought someone else would post this, but Hassan, the guy who chopped his wife's head off...founded "Bridges TV" in 2004, a network/station designed to counter negative portrayals of Muslims.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 9, 2011 2:14 PM | Report abuse

"The Obama administration seems to have been more successful with this approach with Bagram than Guantanamo."

how is one facility any different than the other? or is it because it's in a war zone?

Posted by: NoVAHockey | March 9, 2011 2:16 PM | Report abuse

This is a little OT...

Just another reason to be a lesbian.

"...men had penises studded with small, hard spines."

"It has long been believed that humans evolved smooth penises as a result of adopting a more monogamous reproductive strategy than their early human ancestors."

The things guys have to do to get laid.

http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110309/full/news.2011.148.html

Posted by: shrink2 | March 9, 2011 2:20 PM | Report abuse

@NoVAHockey ""The Obama administration seems to have been more successful with this approach with Bagram than Guantanamo."

how is one facility any different than the other? or is it because it's in a war zone?"

Bingo. Also, I believe that technically the Afghan government has legal sovereignty over Bagram whereas the U.S. is the legal authority over Guantanamo. If a detainee is mistreated or held without charges at Bagram, their recourse would be to have their lawyer seek redress through the Afghan legal system.

Posted by: jnc4p | March 9, 2011 2:21 PM | Report abuse

"both the Bush and Obama administration treat Article III oversight of the detainees as an impediment to their successful conduct of the war, not something to be embraced in the best civil liberties traditions of the country."

i think the mindset is the only thing worse than a terrorist attack, is a terrorist attack on my watch.

Posted by: NoVAHockey | March 9, 2011 2:21 PM | Report abuse

@Liam-still "Never the less; if we made the huge mistake of torturing people, and we are now ashamed to have it come out, we need to stop trying to keep the lid on that history."

What's your take on the conditions that Bradley Manning is being held in? Do they amount to torture?

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/03/05/manning/index.html

Posted by: jnc4p | March 9, 2011 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Which is the one thing they should not be focusing on.

There is no way to prevent all terror attacks, but the odds of one of us dying in one, are far less, than dying in a car crash, or getting shot by a handgun.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 9, 2011 2:36 PM | Report abuse

"Anyone that reads the Koran can see that violence is promoted and encouraged against any non-muslim."

Posted by: ignoranceisbliss

Anyone that reads the bible can see that violence is promoted and encouraged against any non-christian.

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Posted by: gordmetcalfe | March 9, 2011 2:44 PM | Report abuse

@Liam-still "Never the less; if we made the huge mistake of torturing people, and we are now ashamed to have it come out, we need to stop trying to keep the lid on that history."

What's your take on the conditions that Bradley Manning is being held in? Do they amount to torture?

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/03/05/manning/index.html

Posted by: jnc4p | March 9, 2011 2:34 PM

.............
That is down right bizarre, and needs to be investigated. Some people need to be prosecuted for doing that to him.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 9, 2011 2:52 PM | Report abuse

gordmetcalf, my personal favorite is how much fun, delight really, a person can have smashing the heads of Babylonian children on the rocks.

Psalm 137

Posted by: shrink2 | March 9, 2011 2:55 PM | Report abuse

On the Islam issue, the Republicans and Tea Partyers are on the winners team, having the good sense to understand that Islam is the one major religion whose own god Allah gives believers a free pass to be violent in his name. It's not like Christianity, whose founder set the example for not resisting violence, but which got corrupted by the Romans when they made it the official religion in an attempt to get Christians to join the army and fight for it, in vain, just a century before the Roman Empire fell. No, from day one Muhammad, Allah's only prophet and mouthpiece set the example by his violent wars on non-Muslims and Jews, and numerous atrocities. Since Muslims consider him the perfect example and pattern, Republicans and Tea Partyers must have a higher IQ than Democrats to see the connection, sorry. Don't settle for trivializing the issue as demonizing Muslims or racism and prejudice - Islam isn't a race, it's an ideology whose holy book demands a government ruled by Allah, who can't be argued with, stifling all freedoms, making it one issue all non-Muslims left to right can unite on. For Democrats, maybe it's just a matter of education. In the Internet Age, Democrats don't have to live with being Islam ignoramuses. Try the Historyscoper's Islam Watch Blog.

Posted by: tlwinslow | March 9, 2011 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Still no Muslim invading Army sighted of the American coasts. They sure are not very good at that sort of thing, are they, because America has our armed forces all over their lands. looks like we are just trying to scare ourselves.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 9, 2011 3:07 PM | Report abuse

tlwinslow, King David was a warlord. Still, Islam suffers for not having dreamed up the New Testament. There is no Prince of Peace, no Lamb of God, I agree it is a dreadful scourge, Islam is. But Christianity, for all of its wonderfulness, has a much, much higher body count, in its name, by the hand of its faithful. Which Religion is worse is only a fun topic, it isn't serious, they are both so dreadful.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 9, 2011 3:14 PM | Report abuse

@ gordmetcalfe
you wrote:
================
Anyone that reads the bible can see that violence is promoted and encouraged against any non-christian.

=================
then posted old testament quotes. christianity is a function of the NEW testament. the old testament books cannot be as you say since Christianity did not exist when they were written.

Your argument is specious and well worn. We've heard it for years. Essentially it boils down to this: the muslims may do as they please because there are some words in the old testament to which the left objects.

I don't know how that makes sense to a rational person, but by all means, carry this "argument" forward will vigor.

My position is pretty simple: Islam is as Islam does. Christianity is as christianity does. you are as you do. I am as I do.

so, do today's jews actively enforce the words you quote? when was the last time the jews in Israel stoned someone to death? When was the last time the muslims anywhere stoned someone to death?

Do you see the difference?

Today Bill Bennett talked about this on his excellent morning talk show. He points to a "softening" of some of the more strident language in the old testament. This softening stems from two things. First, the new testament speaks to a different way of life for people. Next, the heirarchy of jewish "clergy" has softened its position relative to much of this language.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | March 9, 2011 3:55 PM | Report abuse

History repeats itself. First they came for the Jews, now they come for the Muslims, and you're next! New York Rep. Peter King is the new Riechsfuhrer.

Posted by: famunasmd | March 9, 2011 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Liam..Jamaat al-fuqra for starters..When Muslim numbers reach critical mass,these militants will be there for allah's cause..Check out Gates of Vienna regularly to keep informed..All of their outposts are documented on the left side..

http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2010/05/how-to-destroy-people-through.html

Posted by: megegre | March 9, 2011 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Shrink2, the difference is WHEN teh depravity occured.

Christianity's descent into depravity occurred when?

The problem as I see it is that Islam needs a reformation, just as christianity did. But christianity's reformation took a bloody century. Can we really allow the same convulsions now?

During the Iraq war it began to look like a cultural struggle and in many ways it still does. One culture contends with another for supremacy in a given geographic space. there is no way for that to end well for anyone. Certainly we posses the ability to destroy much of the muslim world, but that's not our prediliction. Were it, and were that well known I doubt that America would be troubled by much terrorism.

so the question is how do we confront the issues raised by islam in today's world?

Posted by: skipsailing28 | March 9, 2011 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Reformation my Arse. Christians slaughtered each other, and people in lands that they invaded, long after the Reformation.

All of N. Africa was occupied by Christian Nations, well into the 20th Century.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 9, 2011 5:53 PM | Report abuse

Isn't Bill Gross of PIMCO moving money into equities and into foreign markets? That is a bullish sign, not a bearish signal that U.S. bonds are falling apart. If U.S. bonds fall apart, equities and foreign markets will fall apart, and then money will flow back into safe haven U.S. bonds. That's the way it's been working for a very long time.

Posted by: 12BarBluesAgain | March 9, 2011 6:50 PM | Report abuse

Labeling REP Pete King's congressional hearings a "three ring circus" couldn't possibly be indicative of the author's feeling about the subject.
Islam is a peaceful religion. Can't you rednecks listen to George Bush. He was never wrong about anything. Just because a few thousand are killing in the name of Islam and following the dictates of the Quran does not mean the religion is not peaceful. So what, if the quran calls non-muslims infidels. So what, if it says to cut their heads off. So what, if it says to perform any manor of evil upon the non-believers. Peaceful! Islam is Peaceful! and if you don't submit (Islam means submission) Well, Pieces will be you!
oops, I meant to say "Peace be with you."

Posted by: truebeliever3 | March 9, 2011 10:01 PM | Report abuse

Getting down to the crux of the matter..

http://sheikyermami.com/2009/01/30/father-zakariah-boutros-really-really-worries-muslims/

Posted by: megegre | March 9, 2011 10:37 PM | Report abuse

Was Muhammad a messenger from God or Satan? Part 1 & 2

Now the ummah goes after Coptic priest Zakaria Botros’

Muslims pressure radio station regarding Coptic priest Zakaria Botros’ “rants” about Muhammad

Sir Andrew Green said "These figures are Labour's legacy to Britain - 3.2 million immigrants, including a quarter of a million in their last year alone. Over half a million students in one year with no interviews before arrival and no checks on departure and a Points Based System that has increased immigration, not reduced it. This is what Labour called "managed migration". It would be hard to imagine, after thirteen years in charge, a more shambolic inheritance."

What say you America? (I'm Canadian)

Posted by: megegre | March 9, 2011 10:59 PM | Report abuse

Pew research poll, I like it. Confirms what I've thought from the get go. The TEA party in general is racist, and bias. Stubborn and ignorant, bible lecturing gun-toting...
Education America needs

Pew Research Poll

Posted by: Mykiey | March 10, 2011 1:19 AM | Report abuse

Only Conservative Republicans and Tea Party, along with the rest of the non-Muslim world. Apparently the feeling of most of the worlds population, which has felt Islamic terrorism first hand, doesn't justify a hearing. Poll? Come on, there's hundreds of them, coming up with the results they're paid to. Polls are not scientific studies and provide nothing more accurate than politically motivated guesswork. The columnist lives in a world entirely of his own imagination.

Posted by: drrealitycheck | March 10, 2011 1:31 AM | Report abuse

I think you did not survey enough Orthodox Christians, not like they might KNOW something about it. How about polling the Copts? The Syriacs? The Assyrians? Or even the Maronites? Why not ask them all about it?

It was once given that the definition of "insanity" is repeating the same experiment repeatedly but expecting different results. Over 1000 years of observation of the "experiment" does give a little perspective on things.

As to the TEA party folks - sometimes looking at things as they are, you don't have to ask "why?" or "why not?"

Posted by: sdent60 | March 10, 2011 2:27 PM | Report abuse

I think you did not survey enough Orthodox Christians, not like they might KNOW something about it. How about polling the Copts? The Syriacs? The Chaldeans? The Byzantines? The Assyrians? Or even the Maronites? Why not ask them all about it?

It was once given that the definition of "insanity" is repeating the same experiment repeatedly but expecting different results. Over 1000 years of observation of the "experiment" does give a little perspective on things.

As to the TEA party folks - sometimes looking at things as they are, you don't have to ask "why?" or "why not?"

Posted by: sdent60 | March 10, 2011 2:30 PM | Report abuse

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