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Posted at 1:43 PM ET, 03/ 8/2011

Report: More Wisconsin GOPers wavering in support for Walker

By Greg Sargent

Two Wisconsin newspapers, the Milwalkee Journal Sentinel and Green Bay Press Gazette, are now reporting that two more Wisconsin GOP Senators are wavering in their support for Governor Scott Walker:

In an interview with the Green Bay Press Gazette, Sen. Rob Cowles said Monday that his Republican colleagues should be prepared to meet Democrats halfway on aspects of the collective bargaining bill that don't help balance the budget or save taxpayers money.

"The important part is the monetary concessions. That's the part that helps balance the budget. The other things are less monetary in nature," said Cowles, co-chair of the Joint Legislative Audit Committee.

"It's the challenge of the Senate to go through those and find a conclusion on items that have little or no connection to finance."

The Journal Sentinel reported Monday that Sen. Luther Olsen of Ripon also favored some negotiation with Democrats.

"They're in the minority but holding some cards so you've got to negotiate, you can't give up the whole ship," Olsen said.

Olsen said he's forwarded to the governor undisclosed ideas for compromise.

A couple of key points. First, note that GOP Senator Cowles is endorsing the three core union arguments: that unions have already made the fiscal concessions Walker has asked for; that the rollback of bargaining rights won't have any meaningful fiscal impact; and that Republicans should compromise with labor and Dems.

The push for compromise is also being endorsed here by GOP Senator Olsen. Recall that GOP Senator Dale Schultz recently called for compromise, too, so that brings the total GOP Senators who want Walker to drop his opposition to compromise to three.

Also key: Olsen reveals that he's suggested ideas to Walker for a compromise. Senate Republicans are said to be caucusing today, and while some Dems think Republicans will stand firm, it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that Republicans will today be debating whether to find a way out of the standoff.

More when I learn it.

By Greg Sargent  | March 8, 2011; 1:43 PM ET
Categories:  Labor  
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Next: Pete King's three ring circus

Comments

Greg closes this post with the line: "More when I learn it."

Let me translate this for y'all:

"More when I receive my talking points from the democrat national committee. They are my masters and I dutifully word process any memos they hand me."

What a turd.

Posted by: manbearpig4 | March 8, 2011 1:48 PM | Report abuse

@Greg

What is the official way for the State Senate GOP to change the bill, and is there a way the Dems can know (100%) that the GOP won't simply wait until they walk into the chamber then pull out the current budget repair bill and pass it?

After Walker's admission that he would be willing to pull something like that, as well as the stunt pulled by the GOP in the Assembly...I'm curious what exactly has to happen to assure Dems that they aren't being baited back to town with a deal that's done in bad faith.

Posted by: TheBBQChickenMadness | March 8, 2011 1:51 PM | Report abuse

good points, BBQ, I'll try to figure out.

Posted by: Greg Sargent | March 8, 2011 1:53 PM | Report abuse

I don't see Walker backing down at all on his ideology. Although, in the end, is he does sign a compromise bill, he'll do it kicking and screaming all the way. I think the GOP senators are on their own in salvaging anything, including their careers. And that's really their motivation.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | March 8, 2011 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Greg, for keeping us in the loop!

OT:

-GOP delays vote on House-passed budget bill with $61B in cuts-

“We agreed to hold a vote on the Republican plan … and then vote on the Democratic plan, which makes much smarter cuts and more solid investments. Then we would return to the negotiating table and try again to find common ground,” Reid fumed on the Senate floor Tuesday morning.

Now, he says, Republicans “don’t want to vote on their own bill.”

Republicans push back hard on that claim, saying the vote will happen -- either today or tomorrow -- but that the Senate has to finish a pending patent reform bill first.

Democrats say privately that McConnell doesn't want to take the vote until he can be assured that he won't have any defections on the GOP-House passed bill. That measure would cut about $61-billion in spending, which could be a tough pill to swallow for some moderate Republicans wary of the cuts' effects on the economy.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/03/08/6219042-senate-spending-votes-may-be-delayed-

Another:

Corporate pensions hurting... Naturally, Chamber of Commerce wants fix without oversight

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/03/07/109955/business-fights-obamas-fix-for.html

Posted by: ronnieandrush | March 8, 2011 1:56 PM | Report abuse

{ is there a way the Dems can know (100%) that the GOP won't simply wait until they walk into the chamber then pull out the current budget repair bill and pass it?}

Very good question.

I am assuming that the State Senators in districts where they only won their seats with a mere 100 votes or so are really feeling the heat.

Posted by: Alex3 | March 8, 2011 1:59 PM | Report abuse

BBQ: "What is the official way for the State Senate GOP to change the bill, and is there a way the Dems can know (100%) that the GOP won't simply wait until they walk into the chamber then pull out the current budget repair bill and pass it?"

Greg, thanks for checking into this more. I'm sure it's a concern for the Dems. I wonder if it can be irrevocably removed from the docket?

But really, with all the recall petitions underway, if the GOP did try to pull a fast one, they'd be committing political suicide.

Posted by: suekzoo1 | March 8, 2011 1:59 PM | Report abuse

I suspect more republicans will be willing to compromise as they get served with Recall papers. If it takes going there to get them to compromise, the Democrats should continue on with the recall.

Posted by: kindness1 | March 8, 2011 2:16 PM | Report abuse

So suppose you were advising the 14 - it looks like winning. Polls breaking against Walker. PR strategy of offering to negotiate at the state line, Walker refuses making him look worse. Republican recalls underway.

Time is on the 14's side right now, and the 'moderate' Republicans have everything to gain by compromising.

Posted by: member8 | March 8, 2011 2:19 PM | Report abuse

What a turd.

Posted by: manbearpig4

Hey your post may be completely incorrect but at least you selected the right name...
manbearPIG4! LMAO at you dude!

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 8, 2011 2:20 PM | Report abuse

manbearpig4 calling someone else a turd. Boy, I am sure that hurts! Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids!

Posted by: Raptoraddict | March 8, 2011 2:20 PM | Report abuse

manbearpig4 calling someone else a turd. Boy, I am sure that hurts! Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids!

Posted by: Raptoraddict | March 8, 2011 2:21 PM | Report abuse

@Sue

"I think the GOP senators are on their own in salvaging anything, including their careers. And that's really their motivation."

EXACTLY!

Walker is already toast as a politician. Stick a fork in him he's done. It's even questionable if he'll get to serve out the remainder of his term much less get elected to anything else. He now has the Milwaukee fiasco as well as this fiasco on his resume.

Walker has one of two choices...go ahead and take a position with the Koch boys...

OR move to Florida where we DO elect out and out crooks as Governor.

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 8, 2011 2:23 PM | Report abuse

The Magnificent Fourteen better not return to Wi, before Walker signs an agreement to remove his Union Busting Move from the bill.

Make him publish it in the newspapers, so that if he pulls a fast one, the public will see him exposed for the beady eyed rat that he is.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 8, 2011 2:23 PM | Report abuse

OT:

Democrats today are circulating this video [VIDEO AT LINK] of Rep. Denny Rehberg, the GOP candidate for the Senate from Montana, ignoring repeated questions from a Democratic tracker on what the federal minimum wage is.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0311/Rehberg_grilled_on_minimum_wage_as_2012_arrives.html

Posted by: ronnieandrush | March 8, 2011 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Actually, it sounds like the Dem leader is the one that won't compromise or even meet.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/117532008.html

Apparently Walker's staff has meet on multiple occasions with Dems in the State of Wisconsin.

I know Greg is a busy guy and doesn't have time to read everything, so I thought I'd help out by pointing him to an article that helps correct the Democratic Party's line of cow dung.

Posted by: Bailers | March 8, 2011 2:25 PM | Report abuse

@Ethan aka R&R

"moderate Republicans"

I know you were simply sharing MSNBC with us but don't you agree this has become an oxymoron? :-)

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 8, 2011 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Democrats today are circulating this video [VIDEO AT LINK] of Rep. Denny Rehberg, the GOP candidate for the Senate from Montana, ignoring repeated questions from a Democratic tracker on what the federal minimum wage is.
____________________

And your point is what? If Fox News shoved a camera into your face and asking you questions, wouldn't you ignore them as well?

Posted by: Bailers | March 8, 2011 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Greg,

Something for your King Of The Peters file.

"By EILEEN SULLIVAN, Associated Press Eileen Sullivan, Associated Press – 1 hr 27 mins ago

WASHINGTON – Rep. Peter King, who will hold hearings this week on Islamic radicalism, is defending his support in the 1980s and 1990s of the Irish Republican Army's political wing.

The New York Republican says the IRA and al-Qaida are very different — the IRA was a narrowly focused homegrown movement while al-Qaida has attacked the U.S. and other countries. King said in an interview Tuesday he was right to advocate that the IRA be brought into peace negotiations to stop the violence."

...............................

What you should connect to what Peter King said about his support for The IRA is the truth that he has not addressed.

Qadaffi armed the IRA, and smuggled shiploads of guns and plastic explosive to them.

He also trained IRA members in camps in Libya. Ask King to explain why he is still defending his support for the IRA, since they were being trained and Armed by a Terrorist regime, that planted bombs on passenger planes.

Why was Peter King not cooperating with the American Law Enforcement officials, but instead supporting the IRA, when it was being trained and armed by Qaddafi.

Time for hearings to be held, on why Peter King was enabling Terrorists.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 8, 2011 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Here is some food for thought that I plan to share more frequently...

Do all of our posters understand that elected leaders represent both the voters who elected them as well as the ones who voted against them. After the election is over it doesn't provide a mandate to simply ram things through. Whether you wish to admit it or not Obama compromised a ton on the ACA p!ssing off much of his base in the process.
NO PUBLIC OPTION! Private Insurance companies still managing running the deal..Big Pharma's deals...WHERE HAVE THE R'S compromised?
Was it on Obama's Waterloo? Perhaps the "Death Panels"...maybe "pulling the plug on granny"?

Seriously righties...list your compromises.
Winning an election is not a mandate to be a dictator. Rick the scumbag Scott is slowly learning that lesson here in Florida.

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 8, 2011 2:33 PM | Report abuse

@ruk: OT, but thought you'd enjoy this:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2011_03/028331.php

Posted by: Michigoose | March 8, 2011 2:39 PM | Report abuse

I think Governor Walker should just deem this legislation like the Dems do. That or just keep firing Public Union workers that is even a better thing. Until they get a clue. Which will be never happen just keep firing them.

Posted by: Lanche | March 8, 2011 2:40 PM | Report abuse

I hope the GOP doesn't compromise. The mandate they got from the people is slipping away at an incredible rate, as people see that many they put into office are putting corporate and party agendas > their constituency.

Let the recalls and the 2012 elections show the GOP what happens when they ignore the people who put them into office.

Posted by: spynnal | March 8, 2011 2:40 PM | Report abuse

It is amusing to listen to Greg and the rest of your hypocrites try to frame the Wisconsin situation.

In the real world here's what is going on:

1. The Unions and the democrat party are desperate to maintain their corrupt partnership.

2. The democrat senators in Wisconsin have ignored their constitutional duty and fled the state. They and their supporters are an embarrassment to our democracy.

3. The cancer that is modern liberalism is dying all across America. This is an absolute joy to watch.

So continue to publish your bogus polls and spew left wing talking points. The end is near.

And one more thing...Greg is a turd.

Posted by: manbearpig4 | March 8, 2011 2:46 PM | Report abuse

I think some of our readers may be unaware of the origins of "ManBearPig"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manbearpig

Posted by: sbj3 | March 8, 2011 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Actually, it sounds like the Dem leader is the one that won't compromise or even meet.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/117532008.html

Apparently Walker's staff has meet on multiple occasions with Dems in the State of Wisconsin.

I know Greg is a busy guy and doesn't have time to read everything, so I thought I'd help out by pointing him to an article that helps correct the Democratic Party's line of cow dung.

Posted by: Bailers | March 8, 2011 2:25 PM |
..................

All your link leads to is the Journal reporting what Scott Walker said, and we know that he told the Faux Hoch guy, that he was considering misleading the Democrats in order to lure them back into session, and then passing the bill while they broke for lunch.

The Unions and the Democrats have already agreed on the benefits giveback, so the only thing they are fighting for is to keep the collective bargaining rights. Walker will not budge on that, so he has offered no compromise at all. So sell your swill elsewhere, you lying Koch Sucker.

Walker letting some of his staff talk to a couple of Democrats, at a get together in Kenosha, does not mean a thing, because he never asked the minority leader to meet with him, but the minority leader wrote to him, asking for such a meeting, and Walker would not do so.

You seem to forget, that as soon as one of the Republican senators proposed the compromise of having the collective bargaining rights suspended for two years, he got slapped back into line by his leader, Fitzgerald, so why should the Democratic leader not be able to enforce the same discipline over his group.

Tell us again about what actual compromise did Scott Walker offer the Democrats. Spell it out in detail. I dare you too.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 8, 2011 2:52 PM | Report abuse

manbearpig ... add pedophile to your monicker and you could pass for Rush Limbaugh

Posted by: pragmaticagain | March 8, 2011 2:54 PM | Report abuse

@suekzoo1

"But really, with all the recall petitions underway, if the GOP did try to pull a fast one, they'd be committing political suicide."

I don't disagree with that assesment, esp. if they were to deceptivly pass it with such a high profile.

But.

But, if they did it'd be law. The only way to undo it would be to pass a whole new bill to undo the damage. For that to happen we'd need to see Dems take back the State Senate, State Assembly, and the Governors mansion -- a combination we won't see for a least a year. Then you have to contend with Dems normal ineptitude at negoations and their ability to go back and start this battle all over again from scratch.

Political suicide for half a dozen GOPers (who'll likely be back or get handed lucritive lobbying work) could be seen as a small price to pay for the sheer number of hurdles passage of this current budget bill creates before Dems can get unions bargining rights back.

No. The WI Dems need to make sure that there is absolutely 0% chance of the GOP pulling a fast one and jamming this through before they take one step over the WI state line.

Posted by: TheBBQChickenMadness | March 8, 2011 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Vast majority of the rightie comments here are outright false, totally misleading, absolutely vomit-inducing. They are desperate. Not much offered from that direction that I typically enjoy on this blog, and I see the extremists have brought in reinforcements. LOL. Puleeeeeeeze, let the WI recalls continue unabated . . . regardless of any upcoming Republican "compromise" (in quotes because I truly do not believe they understand the concept). And yes, I would welcome even Dem recalls; they would win hands-down. Now THAT would be a mandate!

Posted by: okiegirl | March 8, 2011 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Gridlock by remaining out of state, is the only weapon The Democrats have, so they better protect it.

Gridlock is far better than being Road Kill. If any of them returns, without getting Walker to drop his Union Busting, then those who return will be recalled by their own democratic voters.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 8, 2011 3:09 PM | Report abuse

@ruk--I'm bringing this forward for you from last night's thread:

Don't know if you'll be checking in tonight, but I wanted to briefly pick up on that question of whether some people have empathy and some don't. That's a bit broader than what I was suggesting. Most of us are able to empathize with people whose experiences and views are similar to our own, and just about everyone can feel sympathy (which isn't quite empathy) for the victims of an earthquake, no matter who they are, but not everyone has the ability to identify with the experiences of others who are quite different from them. I'm thinking of the ability to truly imagine oneself in another person's place when that place is essentially unknown. I don't think everyone can do that, and it's not a matter of right and wrong, but a matter of personality and outlook.

It's my sense that people who have this sort of ability are as important to the political process as those who are masters of strategy and organization and who have a deep knowledge of issues. That's what I meant.

Posted by: AllButCertain | March 8, 2011 3:10 PM | Report abuse

pragmaticagain:

I am guessing you think your comment is clever or interesting.

It is neither. It simply makes no sense. It does not relate to or refute anything I said nor does it show any knowledge of "Manbearpig".

Lack of knowledge...making no sense...You sound like the perfect liberal.

And one more thing...You are a turd.

Posted by: manbearpig4 | March 8, 2011 3:11 PM | Report abuse

If more WI GOP senators have town halls like the one they had the other night, they will be moving away from Walker so quick as to make him radioactive. Walker is both too dense with his double digit IQ, and too beholden to his corporate donors to budge. He probably still is under the mistaken impression that he has a career in politics.
If the 14 Dems come back, and the collective bargaining part of the budget bill is stripped , it will only be because 4 or 5 of these GOP senators want to continue with a career in politics. Walker has made himself irrelevant.

Posted by: filmnoia | March 8, 2011 3:13 PM | Report abuse

TheBBQChickenMadness is right. The prospects for a double-cross are quite real. This blog noted earlier today that 14 of the 18 Republican state senators represent districts won by Obama in 2008.

Some of them may not expect to win re-election and may wish to build a good name in conservative/national republican books by sacrificing themselves for the cause.

I think the Koch brothers could probably find a few sinecure jobs for some good republican former state senators if push comes to shove. The Wingnut Welfare safety net will catch them. Gutting unions might be worth it.

Hopefully the rules allow the State Senate to assemble under a bare majority for the purpose of dismissing the current bill from the order paper so that it couldn't be sprung on the full senate if the Dems return without warning.

Walker already plotted one trick to bring them back.

Posted by: Scientician | March 8, 2011 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Rush!

Posted by: pragmaticagain | March 8, 2011 3:18 PM | Report abuse

@michigoose

Thanks for the link. Benen is spot on.
In fact here is a link from today's St. Pete Times that reveals Scumbag Scott's plans to destroy our "growth management" plan in place since 1985. As one commenter on the article pointed out...given the urban sprawl and gazillion subdivisions already destroying the fabric of Florida WITH growth management can you even imagine what it's going to be like WITHOUT it?

As interesting as the actual story are the comments...click in and read out popular our Guv is right now.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/growth/experts-say-gov-rick-scotts-growth-management-stance-based-on-faulty/1155788

"There are proposals to get rid of regional planning councils, eliminate requiring developers to show the need for new subdivisions and make it nearly impossible for anyone to sue to stop an unpopular project. The pro-growth-management group 1,000 Friends of Florida is predicting this session of the Legislature will be the "worst in Florida's growth management history.''

What's underlying this push, say experts, is a desire to go even further. It's a rejection of anything that might stand in the way of restarting Florida's growth machine — even local comprehensive plans, said Merle Bishop, president of the Florida chapter of the American Planning Association.

The problem, planning experts say, is that the antiplanning push is based on a faulty premise — just like Scott's anti-DCA anecdote about how many permits it took to build that Collier County development.

The system Scott is pushing, with DCA serving only an advisory role, is one Florida tried before, said Charles Connerly, co-editor of the book Growth Management in Florida: Planning for Paradise.

From 1975 to 1985, he said, local governments drew up their own plans and the state had no say in them. But many local governments didn't take growth management seriously — they didn't adopt plans, or they just ignored them.

"It was a sham," said Connerly, an urban planning professor formerly with Florida State.

That led to congested roads, crowded schools, overloaded sewers and other signs that Florida was overwhelmed by runaway growth. In 1985, lawmakers passed the growth management act that gave the state the power to reject local plans. Business interests went along with it, Connerly said.

"They saw that it was good for Florida," he said. "What makes Florida special is the environment. If you don't protect the environment, why would anyone go there?"


Posted by: rukidding7 | March 8, 2011 3:18 PM | Report abuse

"But really, with all the recall petitions underway, if the GOP did try to pull a fast one, they'd be committing political suicide."

Hi Everybody! Great comments!

What's their motivation for caving though? Vote for the bill, Democrats destroy them electorally. Capitulate, Republican base abandons them (if not outright recall) and they are destroyed by Democrats at next election. I agree theyll cave. But surely they know that it's over, politically, either way. So what makes them cave?

Thanks all!

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 8, 2011 3:32 PM | Report abuse

An example from Michigan of why Wisconsin Democrats should be skeptical of any promises by the Republicans:

Senators debated a long list of amendments this morning, most offered by Democrats hoping to put some limits on the emergency financial managers’ power.

Nearly all their amendments were defeated — except for one, offered by Democratic Sen. Tupac Hunter of Detroit, that would limit emergency financial managers’ annual pay to $176,000. It passed on a narrow 19-18 vote, with some Republicans joining about a dozen Democrats to vote yes.

Then, in a sudden change, Republicans who control the Senate brought the amendment up for reconsideration. The salary limit failed 16-21. Senate Democratic Leader Gretchen Whitmer of East Lansing chided Republicans for saying they wanted to reopen the vote so more Republicans could support it when they instead intended to vote it down.
That is from Crain's Detroit

Posted by: ashotinthedark | March 8, 2011 3:33 PM | Report abuse

These hardcore extremist Republicans construct their own reality out of thin air. If what Walker says is echoed on Faux News a few times, then it becomes real to the average Teabagger clown (the Republican base). Walker could say that he speaks regularly to a burning bush and I think a quarter of the Republican base would nod knowingly. Walker is definitely a sinking ship. What is amazing to watch is the division it has created among Republicans in WI. The Faux News/AM Hate Radio faction is so out of touch that they think Walker is WINNING, Charlie Sheen style. The old-school moderate Republicans (what's left of them) are furious that Walker is making them all look like fools, but so far they're sticking to Saint Ronnie Raygun's 11th commandment to speak no ill of other Republicans, at least in public.

Posted by: DrainYou | March 8, 2011 3:37 PM | Report abuse

RUK,

That whole EPA water regulations dust-up in FL is insane. Have you read about it?

Don't people realize that if you destroy the ecosystem with bad water (overloaded with phosphates and nitrogen from fertilizer), you also destroy your own livelihood? Is it all-profit-all-the-time? At what point does the SUSTAINABILITY of an industry ever rear its head in the boardroom?

It is astonishing how short-sighted the corporatists are, and it is astonishing that Floridians would go along with them especially since clean water and health ecosystems are so vital to the economy of that state.

Posted by: ronnieandrush | March 8, 2011 3:38 PM | Report abuse

""Business interests went along with it, Connerly said.

"They saw that it was good for Florida," he said. "What makes Florida special is the environment. If you don't protect the environment, why would anyone go there?" ""

This, believe it or not, is close to the argument that was used to gut the original "enforcement only" anti-immigration bill that was proposed in Utah's legislature this session. If we can't get and keep the tourists we're screwed. We've still got a pretty heinous bill that passed out, but it's better than Arizona's is, and that's because the guv and other influential repubs persuaded the "moderate" (whatever that means in UT) R legislators to back off.

Keep on over-reaching, R's!!!

Posted by: Michigoose | March 8, 2011 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Paging Mr. Krauthammer. Do you also credit George W. Bush for this?

"Christians and Muslims clash in Egyptian capital
By HADEEL AL-SHALCHI, Associated Press Hadeel Al-shalchi, Associated Press 14 mins ago

CAIRO – Clashes between Christians and Muslims escalated on Tuesday with thousands of people burning tires, smashing parked cars and cutting off a main road despite military moves to control a day of violent protests in Egypt's capital.

Tensions have been simmering between Egypt's minority Christian community and its Muslim majority after a Muslim mob burned a church in a Cairo suburb. Egypt's military rulers have since pledged to rebuild the church and Prime Minister Essam Sharaf met Monday with the protesters outside the state-television building.

On Tuesday, thousands of Christians demonstrated in locations around the city, saying they were being persecuted. But several of the gatherings descended into violence when the two sides confronted each other in the streets."

Posted by: Liam-still | March 8, 2011 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Forgot to add, whichever side caves, they'll all cave at once, it's the only way to hope for survival. My guess is that the first side who see's there fundraising reach diminishing returns, caves. I still say it's the Republicans.

Thanks!

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 8, 2011 3:40 PM | Report abuse

@Troll: I think they'll term it "compromise" rather than "cave" and try to hold on to some Independent voters. You've got about 30% on the right who will excoriate them for compromising, but the far left 30% will at least (perhaps grudgingly) respect the fact that they did. And the middle will only remember that they did, finally, come to their senses.

Posted by: Michigoose | March 8, 2011 3:42 PM | Report abuse

the liberals are having a hard time remembering the recent past.

They are proclaiming the death of Govenor Walker. As I've mentioned before, Daniels in Indiana had a 35% approval rating when he took on the unions. His approval rating now is 75%.

No liberal commenting here has refuted those facts. So rumors of Walker's demise are greatly exagerated. Proclaiming the death of their political opponents is a favorite parlor game of the left. They seem to enjoy this even more when the "death" the proclaim was the result of their big lie machine.

I clearly recall the uber libs here claiming that they'd killed off Sarah Palin by virtue of the great Tucson calumniation. I didn't work then and it won't work now.

Welcome to the shellacking. the Democrats and the left took a beating this past November. The depths of their despair have yet to be completely plumbed.

SB5 will be law in Ohio shortly. the gold seam that propped up those crooks will be slowed to a trickle. I am certain that the Democrats will respond-- they are survivors

Posted by: skipsailing28 | March 8, 2011 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Walker appears to be one of those guys that even after he has gotten completely lost, and has no idea of where to turn next, will never ask for directions.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 8, 2011 3:48 PM | Report abuse

@ABC

Thanks so much for bringing your thoughtful post forward from last night. I'm always interested in your thoughts.

I largely agree with what you have to say about empathy and sympathy. And while I agree that empathy is probably not something that can be taught but is rather as you put it.."I don't think everyone can do that, and it's not a matter of right and wrong, but a matter of personality and outlook." what interests me is whether people can indeed change.

In addition I certainly agree empathy is easier when it concerns a person, situation that is similar to your own life experience. One of the major reasons I'm very empathetic to victims of racism and sexism is because I've seen so much of it in my lifetime.

And for me personally ABC I've come such a long way (short for I'm getting to be an old dude lol) and I've not only seen a lot but also witnessed dramatic changes in my own levels of empathy.

As a young person, through pre teen years, I was very empathetic. Then I went through a period of selfishness. As I have mentioned previously I even had a decade of libertarianism. I virtually lost all my empathy. Where did it go? I'm not being clever here but genuinely curious. And why did it return? Perhaps my selfish years were a mask for my true identity. Maybe that is wishful thinking on my part. But as fate would have it...and I do credit..fate..God..the Universe..whichever belief system works for you...for my metamorphosis. It makes me joyous but not proud or boastful..just lucky. I am now very blessed! I don't b!tch anymore about my taxes, and sometimes I'm even a bit embarrassed by my good fortune. When the economy tanked I had to give up my golf membership. It took me a couple of days to get over it because golf had been such a huge part of my life. But I realized how very, very, lucky I am compared to so many others.

I don't consider myself as "wearing my heart on my sleeve" as posted by my good Tennessee friend Kevin. But I just do not understand how people can watch the suffering and not be moved..at least by a little "sympathy" if not empathy. I don't understand how people can look at school teachers...one of the noblest professions IMHO and call them all these derisive names selected by skippy and the others.

I am sometimes ashamed of my lack of empathy for some of our conservative folks who truly post some heartless, cruel stuff.
Cao and I have this debate frequently. I don't hate anybody, but some of these people who are truly devoid of empathy do disturb me. I'm working on it. :-)

I agree 100% with your last sentence ABC which is why I still support Obama....

"It's my sense that people who have this sort of ability are as important to the political process as those who are masters of strategy and organization and who have a deep knowledge of issues."

I perceive B.O. as having a great deal of empathy. Having an "empathetic" President makes me feel proud of my country.

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 8, 2011 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Poor demented Skippy, he wants to steal from the poor to swell the coffers of the Sixty Billion Dollars Koch Brothers.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 8, 2011 3:53 PM | Report abuse

"As I've mentioned before, Daniels in Indiana had a 35% approval rating when he took on the unions. His approval rating now is 75%.

No liberal commenting here has refuted those facts. "

So, Daniels removing right to work in his budget was taking on the unions?

and....

"I clearly recall the uber libs here claiming that they'd killed off Sarah Palin by virtue of the great Tucson calumniation. I didn't work then and it won't work now."

Sarah is virtually dead now because of her vindictive 'it's all about me' attitude after that. It's your own party that turned on her.

Posted by: mikefromArlington | March 8, 2011 3:53 PM | Report abuse

"@Troll: I think they'll term it "compromise" rather than "cave" and try to hold on to some Independent voters. You've got about 30% on the right who will excoriate them for compromising, but the far left 30% will at least (perhaps grudgingly) respect the fact that they did. And the middle will only remember that they did, finally, come to their senses."

Thanks for the response. Maybe, though it's too easily demagogued I think. You just can't replace your base and still win, as a rule. Murkowski being the exception. I thought the Democrats were going to cave as of Monday, with them floating statements about them making their points and time to hang this around the R's neck. But then they didn't, which made me think that the party is still generating revenue. If that's true for D's, then it's true for R's as well. We'll see which hole dries up first.

Thanks all!

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 8, 2011 4:00 PM | Report abuse

@Troll

I agree with your..as always..astute "political" analysis of the Wisconsin situation. May I offer one possible answer to your question...

"So what makes them cave?"

Politics aside...perhaps they believe they'd be doing the "right thing". You know as in realizing the public employees gave the Governor EVERY financial concession he requested..as in realizing that busting the Union literally has NOTHING to do with the budget and everything to do with ideology. Perhaps there are a few Republicans left in America who are not rigid ideologues. I like to think there are...this btw is why I keep posting this link to the R's 1956 Platform...because R's weren't always rigid ideologues..perhaps there are a few thoughtful R's remaining somewhere out there in "flyover" land.:-)

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=25838#axzz1G2n6Gqbn

I'm not exactly a raging conservative here am I?..LMAO...and so my Marine buddy I'm positing that maybe the R rank and file are tired of being led by the nose by a dictator. We are seeing the same phenomenon amongst the R's here in Florida.

C'mon Troll..not all R's are bad. Just sayin'. :-)

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 8, 2011 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Now this:
=================
Paging Mr. Krauthammer. Do you also credit George W. Bush for this?
=================

the issue that the mouthpiece of the left references is the fact that the muslims in Egypt are killing coptic christians for sport.

The question isn't about OUR politics at all, it is about Islam's lack of tolerance. The left loves islam and so glosses over its excesses. They rely on the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" mind set and since both Islam and liberalism hope for the demise of America and capitalism they make convenient fellow travellers for the moment.

so muslims have murdered christians in Egypt. That's apparently a source of amusement for Liam, who is the spokesperson for the left. So it is fair to assume that everyone on the left, the people for who Liam speaks, welcome the murder of the copts.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | March 8, 2011 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Sarah Palin is soon to visit India, and she expects to spend the vast majority of her visit, in or near the Indianapolis area.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 8, 2011 4:07 PM | Report abuse

This is rich!

Seems Sarge Greg is desperately trying to convince everyone that Republicans are on the spot and should give up under the Obamcrat media pressure.

Desperately seeking compromise!

Saying those mean Repubs ought to give in because some polls say so.

Those who beg for compromise are usually the ones at the DISadvantage.

Posted by: battleground51 | March 8, 2011 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Skip- How could we refute those facts?

I note you haven't tried to refute my facts showing you to be intentionally misleading at best and a liar at worst with respect to what happened in Brooklyn, Ohio and regarding the how the Union contracts were passed in Wisconsin.

Posted by: ashotinthedark | March 8, 2011 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Poor Demented Skippy, does not grasp that Krauthammer recently credit George W. Bush for creating the current conditions in Egypt.

Of course he did actually create the conditions in Iraq, that brought about the slaughter, and ethnic cleansing of Christians, in that country.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 8, 2011 4:12 PM | Report abuse

If gasoline prices rise to $5.00/gallon and above, I have calculated that it will decrease Obama's already shakey prospects of re-election by 34.666%.

That will increase the likelyhood that even Sarah Palin may have a shot.

Can you say, Madam President Palin???

Liberals, all across America, would become fleebaggers. One way flights to Canada and Mexico are very reasonable right now.

Posted by: battleground51 | March 8, 2011 4:16 PM | Report abuse

@Troll: ruk beat me to it. I think that the larger R party is going to have to abandon the hard-right 30% for the time being if they're going to remain viable long term. I voted for Reagan (twice, God help me) when I was young and in the military and coming from a conservative (in the old fashioned use of the word) family. Then the Republicans started taking a sharper and sharper turn to the right, and the advent of Newt Gingrich drove me into the more pragmatic arms of the Clinton Democrats. With my continuing aging (as ruk points out in his post about empathy) I've become more and more convinced that most people are good and worthwhile human beings, but the hard right of the Republican party is moving farther and farther away from that world view. Now I'd call the hard right fiscal libertarians/social totalitarians, and I don't believe that the vast majority of my R brethren (you included) fall into those categories. So, yes, the issue of "caving" *is* too easily demagogued, so the far end of the spectrum (on either side) will demagogue it. The rest of us really do just want what's best for the country and society as a whole. In a democracy, that includes compromise.

Posted by: Michigoose | March 8, 2011 4:18 PM | Report abuse

All, a funny update on Pete King's Muslim hearings:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/03/pete_kings_three_ring_circus.html

Posted by: sargegreg | March 8, 2011 4:24 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't even characterize failure to feel empathy as selfishness. It's more a failure of imagination. I say that because I'm pretty selfish in some very important regards, yet I'm still able to feel empathy, because I can imagine how different my life could be if for example I had been born to black or illegal immigrant parents, or even to parents who didn't see value in education. In addition I happen to know a lot of people from widely different backgrounds and have more than few friends who are low income, so I know how they struggle and it's impossible for me to look at their situation and blame them for it. They're good people and they work hard - they just don't get paid much for their work. So I think empathy comes from not only having the ability to imagine, but also from having a bit broader perspective due to not being fearful of others or excluding them from your circle simply because they come from a different cultural or socio-economic background.

Posted by: JennOfArk | March 8, 2011 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Hi Ruk! I guess it all depends on what doing the "right"'thing means.;-) My understanding is that the State doesn't actually pay teachers, local school districts do, and since the State will not be sending out money to help shore up those districts finances, they may need the ability to renegotiate contracts, and CB would make that harder. Ultimately, I don't think that the Dems will cave though. The R's will. I just think it will happen by way of all R's acting in unison. Though I agree with others that the Dems should not trust the R's and should stay out, regardless of what's promised, until Walker is gone. It's the only way to be sure.

Posted by: TrollMcWingnut | March 8, 2011 4:29 PM | Report abuse

in response to ashot from a prior thread:
==============
The tax increase skip mentioned in Brooklyn Ohio.

There's also this:
http://www.wisn.com/r/26154409/detail.html

The public union contracts that were passed by the previously jailed House member were rejected by the Senate so that seems to undermine your repudiation argument.

=================

first, the situation in Brooklyn. The taxes went up, the company threatened to move out and Kasich was able to keep them in the state.

I understand your need to quibble about this but the basic facts are irrefutable: the taxes went up, the company decided to leave because of that. It is really that simple.

BTW, Kasich went to visit the company within days of being elected, even before he was sworn in. When NCR left Dayton, Strickland was caught by surprise. Kasich has said repeatedly that Ohio is now open for business. I'm glad. We need the jobs.

Another quibble on your part: Again, the simple fact is that the Democrat legislators were desperate to pay back their union masters. The issue isn't whether or not the sweetheart deals passed, but the fact that the Democrats plumbed the depths of depravity.

the reason the senate rejected them is because one lone Democrat had a bout of ethics, thought it was wrong to do this during a lame duck and backed out. Read about Russ Decker here:
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_e836dc76-0862-11e0-a476-001cc4c03286.html

The fellow they sprung from jail cast the deciding vote in the Assembly. The Democrat whose ethics ultimately denied the Democrats was their senate leader. He was immediately stripped of his leadership position for the remaining two weeks of the session.

You can "argue" that the bills didn't pass but that's kind of a "no blood, no foul" statement. They didn't pass, but it wasn't for a lack of trying on the part of the Democrats. And this is my point: the Democrats are so deeply indebted to their union money men that they have no shame left.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | March 8, 2011 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Skippy

You continue to amaze with your sheer ignorance. Really!

"I clearly recall the uber libs here claiming that they'd killed off Sarah Palin by virtue of the great Tucson calumniation. I didn't work then and it won't work now."

I don't believe many here would give you credit for "clearly" recalling anything.
But this was just stooopid! First off all we wouldn't use a word like "kill" in relation to Sister Sarah. Harpy? Witch? Well yeah. But she was toast LONG BEFORE TUSCON!!!

Palin's ratings have headed in one direction since she first came onto the national stage...DOWN! What part of this do you not understand Skippy? She was toast back during the 08 election and by most accounts is the single largest reason McCain had no chance...his moronic selection for VP.

October 08 LONG before Tuscon and before the 08 Election.

Nationally, Palin also has the lowest favorable ratings on the Presidential tickets, with a 52% unfavorable rating.

http://www.prosebeforehos.com/word-of-the-day/10/01/sarah-palins-star-begins-to-fall/

March of 2010 Again BEFORE Tuscon

The most striking number from the Washington Post poll was that only 17% of all Americans surveyed said that they held a strongly favorable view of the former Alaska governor. In contrast, 41% of respondents strongly disapproved of her. Palin’s rating with Independents mirrors her overall 37%-55% approval/disapproval rating. Her favorability rating gains one point with Independents to 38%, while her disapproval rating holds steady at 55%.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/behind-the-numbers/2010/03/sarah_palin_and_the_tea_party.html#more

And how about today Skippy

The new poll shows fewer likely Iowa voters who are Republicans view Palin very favorably, 18 percent, than the 27 percent who did so in the Register's November 2009 poll."

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20110228/NEWS09/102280302/0/NEWS/Iowa-Poll-Palin-s-rating-slips-among-Iowa-Republicans?odyssey=mod_sectionstories


Do you understand what a trend is skippy?
And you had the nerve to post that we on the left never respond with facts...well there a just a few for you to digest...now dig up whatever poll you can that shows Sarah Palin with a higher favor-ability than a negative rating among ALL Americans...not just the tea brained simpletons like you skippy. Jeeesssh!!

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 8, 2011 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Fetch that money from the working class, and bring it home to your masters, Skippy.

That's a good little Koch Poodle!!!

Posted by: Liam-still | March 8, 2011 4:35 PM | Report abuse

I understand your need to quibble about this but the basic facts are irrefutable: the taxes went up, the company decided to leave because of that. It is really that simple.

-----------------------------------------
That's not a fact. You really truly are claiming the company left because taxpayers voted to increase their own payroll tax? A tax that didn't increase how much money the company paid? You can't honestly believe that the company was leaving for that reason.

If it didn't matter that the contracts never passed, then you should have mentioned that in any of the number of posts where you raised that issue. But not once did you do so.

Posted by: ashotinthedark | March 8, 2011 4:36 PM | Report abuse

@Jenn

"So I think empathy comes from not only having the ability to imagine, but also from having a bit broader perspective due to not being fearful of others or excluding them from your circle simply because they come from a different cultural or socio-economic background."

It was ABC's post a couple of evenings ago that first got me started thinking about empathy and why some have it and some don't. I appreciate your thoughts.

I think you are correct, imagination is a requirement for true empathy. And if you follow that line of thinking..without trying to be snarky or so overtly partisan..many of our conservative friends we have characterized as not having empathy do indeed lack in imagination. They also IMHO seem to exhibit very rigid thought patterns..perhaps the inverse of imagination.

And I absolutely agree with your take about broader perspective and not being fearful. It would be a fun exercise one day to have some catalog and characterize all the "fearful" comments coming from the right versus the left. Again IMO fear has always been one of the largest tools in the Republican toolbox.

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 8, 2011 4:42 PM | Report abuse

ruk - Thanks for that response. Your metamorphosis, as you call it, is interesting. Does it in anyway coincide with your interest in writing, which does require an ability to at least imagine other lives if not identify with them?

I agree that one of the hardest places to find empathy is for people whose politics seem, on the surface, to be devoid of it. I always wonder what's going on there. It makes me curious. Generally I suspect there's something else happening that means people displace anger onto the political system and those "others" it represents besides them. Certainly the political blogosphere is full of anger.

Posted by: AllButCertain | March 8, 2011 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Well it is RUK here to sneer and snivel in my general direction. I suppose I should feel honored, but that might take too much empathy, or whatever.


Of course the left would use the term "kill". They rely on murder analogies frequently. Nice try to take the moral high ground but it won't work. I watched you guys during the bush years and you are just plain ugly.

My point is straightforward and clear: the left relies on its big lie machinery to destroy people that stand in their way. It is losing its effectiveness but the left has few other tools with which to replace it.

the great calumniation was a perfect example. Krugman made a nasty remark and this tugged at the nose rings of liberal lemmings all across the land. The next thing we knew: Palin was responsible for what happened in Tucson and that fool Obama was lecturing us about civility. Yeah, right. We used to have a commander in chief, now we have a head hypocrite. Lucky us.

Spare me the sophistry. the simple fact is the left cranked out lies about Palin then had the nerve to critique her response to the lies. You know that is what happened. And you know that your useful idiot fellow travellers pronounced her "dead" because of it. Right here, this blog. you can lie to yourself if you chose, but self delusion won't get you far.

Now the left is trying to proclaim the death of Govenor Walker. But just as they've done in the past, they have over estimated their paltry powers of persuasion. Walker will get through this, the state will be better for it and he'll rebound in the polls.

And you'll be wrong, yet again.

have a great day RUK.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | March 8, 2011 4:46 PM | Report abuse

@Skip

Notice I used your correct name so I might respectfully ask the question and perhaps have you respectfully answer it.

Do you understand trends.

Obama has been up and down and up again in the polls.

Sister Sarah has gone in ONE direction..DOWN. Seriously do you actually comprehend this...no sophistry intended. ;-)

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 8, 2011 4:51 PM | Report abuse

The Republicans are into the game of having all States cannibalizing jobs from other States, in order to force every State to keep on slashing corporate tax rates, until they all end up not collecting any corporate revenues, and with only a minimum wage, or less, work force, which can not pay much if any taxes.

Republicans will not stop until America becomes one Giant Plantation, run by The super wealthy Oligarchs, with no middle class, and almost no educated class to be found.

The Oligarchs are putting the vast majority of Americans on the fast track to the poor house, and a further generation out, the poor will no longer tolerate it, and the Oligarchs will suffer the same fate as the French Oligarchs did, when they left the vast majority of the French people with no other options.

The super rich never learn from history, and are doomed to eventually bring about their own doom.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 8, 2011 5:02 PM | Report abuse

I have no brief for Ms Palin. I don't think she'd make a good candidate for the Republicans.

Her poll standings aren't my point. And I think you understand that.

it isn't the trend of her polling that I'm noting. It was the delight with which her enemies on the left proclaimed her death. The liams of the world wanted to dance on her grave, so they tried hard to get her into it.

It just didn't work. These same folks want Walker to be politically dead as well. So they will proclaim it as a fait accompli now even though the public mood is quite likely to change.

That's my point: the left has machinery that they use in these cases. Mr Sargent has provided us with examples of this with is "watch dog group" post from last week and other references to liberal agitation groups that are part of the big lie process. Because they are being over used, they are failing the liberals repeatedly now.

As the American public learns how the left operates the questions will arise. We are fighting back and I'm enjoying it.

This week it is the NPR liberals that are getting the hammer. The hidden camera works wonders. The interlocking network of bad actors on the left is being exposed. ACORN, planned parent hood now NPR. We're playing the game by the liberal's rules and we are playing to win.

We've isolated the civil service unions. We're making it personal and making it hurt. That's what Alinsky taught his communist friends, and those techinques will work for the right too. If that's the way the game is played, we're not going to handicap ourselves. If frontal assault is OK for you, it is OK for everybody.

Welcome to politics in America 21st century style.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | March 8, 2011 5:04 PM | Report abuse

@ABC

I enjoy the way you stimulate my mind. You and the many others who do, are what make me come back again and again to this place.

"Does it in anyway coincide with your interest in writing, which does require an ability to at least imagine other lives if not identify with them?"

Great question. I think I'd have to answer a qualified no. That is to say I think I knew I was a writer since I first enjoyed the Hardy Boys and the Bobbsey Twins. A nun in the 8th grade took one of my compositions and had me read it before the class. She told me I had talent and I should pursue it and become a writer. That story..at the risk of again being accused of wearing my heart on my sleeve was about a radio station with the call letters L O V E. Yeah even back in the 8th grade I was a bit of a sap. LMAO. But I truly had empathy then.

Later as I succeeded in broadcasting..I think the celebrity went to my head...yeah thowin' myself under the bus...and broadcast journalism took care of my "creative" desires but didn't really fulfill my "Dharma" of being a writing.
Christians would translate Dharma as being in the center of God's will. Take your pick. I was not being true to myself in broadcast journalism...I was exploiting a talent and enjoying the rewards..celebrity..money...and I became selfish. I agree with Jenn's take however that an absence of empathy is not the same as selfish...but I think being too selfish corrupts everything good and noble within us.

I had some real struggles when my broadcasting career came to an end. It was an abrupt reintroduction into reality.
I worked as a truck driver for 7$ an hour, lost my wife as a result and on top of all that early racism and sexism I witnessed; I added watching the plight of the Mexican Americans working on Florida's farms to my resume.

And so I can't provide any real definitive answers. I consider those times of "privation" one of my greatest blessings because it proved to me once and for all I can live without money. It's very freeing.
It's like you can't really live until you eliminate your fear of death.

Well I wax far to philosophically for a political blog and so forgive me. But sometimes these philosophical discussions REALLY help me. And here is the gem I've garnered today thanks to you ABC.

"Generally I suspect there's something else happening that means people displace anger onto the political system and those "others" it represents besides them. Certainly the political blogosphere is full of anger."

EXACTLY! And alas I've always been a mirror and so I respond with that same anger. Perhaps your cogent response will help me release some of that anger.

OK Skip? :-)

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 8, 2011 5:05 PM | Report abuse

My heart is broken because it has now been reported that on the very same debate that Republican Candidates will be holding a primary debate, Sarah Palin will be making a paid appearance in another state.

I will probably have to work the primaries to nominate Michele Bachman, if my little Winkypoo Of The Tundra does not run.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 8, 2011 5:11 PM | Report abuse

Oh my. Let's go at the American greeting story first. This is a link to a Cleveland Plain Dealer editorial. The CPD is a liberal rag. How liberal? Among their columnists is Connie Shultz, she's the husband of Sherrod Brown. You know the senator that just used the good old hitler comparisons.

So the CPD editorial board isn't exactly of the same point of view as oh, say the Weekly Standard. Follow the link:
http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2010/01/post_7.html
Here a quote from the editorial:
"It's important to note that neither in a memo to its roughly 2,000 Brooklyn employees nor in the very few, carefully worded public statements of its executives has American Greetings said it is leaving Brooklyn, much less Greater Cleveland.

But the company has hired a consultant to evaluate "all options," and in today's business climate, you can be sure that a firm of its size and profile -- both the Obamas and the Bidens sent Christmas cards from American Greetings -- is getting lots of feelers.

In discussing its wanderlust, the company has focused on one issue: Last May's vote by Brooklyn residents to raise the municipal wage tax from 2 percent to 2.5 percent."

I have searched for the memo sent by the company to no avail.

so yeah, the company's position was that the tax hike was a problem. Was it the only problem? I don't know and neither do you, but the city, county and state officials believed it was.

Now, about the WI depraved Democrats. You are claiming that I had a duty to disclose that the contracts weren't actually approved by the lame duck legislator and I disagree.

My point was that the Democrats are so beholden to the unions that they would stop at nothing to give away the taxpayer's money. And they proved that.

As I stated, the contracts didn't pass but it wasn't for a lack of trying on the part of the Democrats.

I have no obligation to mention something that is only tangential to my point. I provided links throughout. I have nothing to hide.

I didn't mention that ice cream has no bones either. Am I under obligation to do so?

Posted by: skipsailing28 | March 8, 2011 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Brooklyn did not roll back the tax hike yet American Greetings is staying.

Imagine that ... skip is wrong again.

Posted by: pragmaticagain | March 8, 2011 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Wandering a little here but, ruk, your celebrity memories connect with an experience I had today. I was at the doctor's office and there was this ethereal 83 year old woman there--careful vocal delivery, airy hair, perfect makeup, great bones. She had a movie star look and it turns out she was an "on-air personality" in LA for 30 years.

Still rocking it.

Posted by: AllButCertain | March 8, 2011 5:32 PM | Report abuse

As long as I am the judge of what is "FAIR", then I will agree to "Fair Taxation"... until then, fire the entire public sector and start over. Privatize everything and revert to public only for the neediest... even then, it should be the most painful of conversions. Let me have my money to spend on a teacher of my choice. I will shop Angie's List for a teacher and pay them $5k-$7.5k per head. At that rate a teacher can rent a space and make $150k-$225k per school year. We really put too much importance on tradition. I WANT TO KEEP MY MONEY. Public Unions can go to hell.

Posted by: larrydalooza | March 8, 2011 5:41 PM | Report abuse

And to see what a "liberal rag" the Plain Dealer has become, read a few of the pieces from Kevin O'Brien @

http://topics.cleveland.com/tag/kevin%20o%27brien/index-2.html

Here's a brief example:

The Civil Rights Division of our Justice Department remains a reliably strong arm of the Democratic Party. And with a radical-left administration in place, that arm is getting all kinds of exercise.

Posted by: pragmaticagain | March 8, 2011 5:42 PM | Report abuse

@ABC

That's funny! I'm not surprised! I hope she's not still suffering withdrawal. lol

It is an intoxicating business. Imagine working someplace ABC where you are referred to as the "talent" and everybody else has a normal description, producer, director, crew, salesperson. It's pretty special to be the talent! LMAO

Then you venture out into the public and everybody stares at you...upsides and downsides to this...but many ask for your autograph...thank heavens I wasn't a rock star or a "real" celebrity or I might not have survived it. It's not healthy to combine a dysfunctional childhood where love is lacking with a career that includes false adoration.

Again since we're wandering...I truly wonder what has happened to Charlie Sheen...perhaps it's just all the drugs...I might have "inhaled" but I never "rolled" like poor Charlie. He is becoming painful to watch...but again only if you have empathy. :-)

Posted by: rukidding7 | March 8, 2011 5:46 PM | Report abuse

Doesn't the Wisconsin Veto mean that the Governor can simply change the bill back to the way that he wants it, when it arrives on his desk?

Posted by: canuck7 | March 8, 2011 5:53 PM | Report abuse

this is a stretch:
==================
Brooklyn did not roll back the tax hike yet American Greetings is staying.

Imagine that ... skip is wrong again.

=============

Desperation anyone?

No Brooklyn did not roll back its tax increase. But the State and local governments worked out something to induce them to stay. They may or may not stay in Brooklyn, that decision hasn't made the news yet.

My guess is that the company got an offset elsewhere that made staying in OHIO more attractive than leaving, especially for Chicago.

But this was a nice try by the pragmatic one. Kudos to you!!!

Posted by: skipsailing28 | March 8, 2011 6:03 PM | Report abuse

At least now you admit that you have nothing more than "guesses." kudos to you skip for finally acknowledging your ignorance.

Posted by: pragmaticagain | March 8, 2011 6:10 PM | Report abuse

Tell us again about what actual compromise did Scott Walker offer the Democrats. Spell it out in detail. I dare you too.

Posted by: Liam-still
__________________________

What are you, 12? Your angry old person persona is getting old, but I'll feel really bad for you if it isn't an act.

But you want to dare me? Okay, here you go:

The bill would no longer seek to limit public employee union bargaining over wages to the rate of inflation.

• The bill would allow union bargaining over certain economic issues, including mandatory overtime, performance bonuses, hazardous duty pay, and classroom size. On this set of issues, both labor and management would have to agree to discuss them for bargaining to happen.

• The bill would allow bargaining over workplace safety but that would be limited to workers' physical health and safety. It would not allow bargaining over hours, overtime, sick leave or family leave, work schedules or vacation.

• Union contracts for public employees would be limited to a one- or two-year period.

• Unions would have to vote every three years to remain active, with the first of those votes coming within one year of the bill becoming law. The current version of the bill would require unions to vote to recertify every year and require them to get at least 51% of workers' votes.

• Employees of the UW Hospital and Clinics Authority would not lose all union bargaining rights

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/117584003.html

So I ask you Liam Still Angry, still going to try and claim that the Senate Dem leader isn't to blame at this point?

Posted by: Bailers | March 8, 2011 7:06 PM | Report abuse

Bailer,

You just made up a list of blatant lies. The bill does not include any of the things you just outlined. I dare you to post a link to any reputable media report that show the bill including those conditions.

You are the angry creep that came on here and attacked Greg Sargent, and spun a pack of Koch Sucker lies, and now you want to talk about being tired of my reaction.

Now get back to fetching water for the 60 Billion Dollars worth Koch Brothers, who are not even from Wisconsin. Why don't you just leave the state and move closer to those two old creeps, so that you can kiss their greedy arses on an hourly basis.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 8, 2011 7:30 PM | Report abuse

To hell with Scott Walkers aides tossing out some suggestions. That is not Walker negotiating in good faith with The Senate Minority Leader.

Furthermore; he has no right to dictate collective bargaining limitations on what can be requested and negotiated on. He needs to stop meddling with that process. He got what he asked for in benefits give backs. He is not entitled to prevent teachers from being able to negotiate any thing else on new contracts.

Even the two Democrats, are cited on the link that you posted, as saying; they were not negotiating with Walkers staff, and were not authorized to speak for the entire Senate minority party.

The Senate Minority wrote to Walker requesting that they meet to discuss the issue, and Walker turned him down.

No matter how you try to spin that, it still exposes Walker as the one who was not willing to sit down at the table with the leader of the Dems.

Posted by: Liam-still | March 8, 2011 8:09 PM | Report abuse

Not surprisingly, this right wing rag is carrying water for corporate America and their Republican congressional flunkies. Social Security is fully funded until at least 2037 and it DOES NOT contribute to the deficit. If Republicans and their cheerleaders at the Chronicle were serious about reining in spending and cutting the deficit they would be talking about getting rid of their beloved deficit balloning tax cuts for the rich, which cost around $700 billion, and cutting the bloated military budget, where we spend more than the rest of the world combined. Partisan hackery isn't the answer.

Posted by: DrainYou | March 8, 2011 9:55 PM | Report abuse

As a life long Wisconsin resident, I'm having alot of fun watching Skippy and the Fitzgerald brothers heads growing to explosion size. They remind me of 2 year olds throwing tantrums-fantastic.The Fab 14 can stay away a long time. Fund raisers are going on in lots of places to help them out. Why would they return? To continue on in their gravy 50k a year jobs?? Most have other occupations anyway. The Fitzgeralds just got their Dad appointed Chief of the State Patrol! Hmmm.

Posted by: bluecollarbluejeans | March 8, 2011 10:24 PM | Report abuse

impeach walker ...simple solution...just impeach the SOB!!!!

Posted by: signsplus | March 9, 2011 1:21 AM | Report abuse

Senator Olsen is supposed to be something of a moderate. I think he has a lot of union members in his district. When the "Budget Repair Bill" was first announced Luther Olsen was the only Republican who would speak to a local PBS (Wisconsin) weekly round up type show and he said then that the proposed bill was extreme. I can't remember if he used that exact word, but the general idea was he thought the collective bargaining language was unusual.

I would like to hypothesize that Luther Olsen, Mike Ellis, Dave Schulz (for sure), and maybe even a couple of others (the Green Bay guy for instance) will vote no if the bill isn't amended first. I think they will do it for the good of the state and they will be seen as heroic for voting "No".

Posted by: georgia198305 | March 9, 2011 2:06 AM | Report abuse

My hypothesis is probably wrong. The Republicans have been lying all along and and "compromise" is just a trick.

Posted by: georgia198305 | March 9, 2011 3:29 AM | Report abuse

You just made up a list of blatant lies. The bill does not include any of the things you just outlined. I dare you to post a link to any reputable media report that show the bill including those conditions.
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I never said the bill included the concesions. I simply said that Walker had proposed them, but the Dem leader was hiding in his spider hole in Illinois claiming Walker wouldn't negotiate. That he won't sit down with the Dem leader doesn't negate the fact that he is trying to negotiate.

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Furthermore; he has no right to dictate collective bargaining limitations on what can be requested and negotiated on. He needs to stop meddling with that process. He got what he asked for in benefits give backs. He is not entitled to prevent teachers from being able to negotiate any thing else on new contracts.
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He absolutely can limit what is negotiated on. It's up to the legislature to codify that. As it stands right now, there is not limits on the public unions asking Government for more tax money to pay wages and benefits. I don't know why you would think that Government can't limit what public unions can negotiate on, the Federal government has been doing it for 30 years.

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and were not authorized to speak for the entire Senate minority party.
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Oh, I understand now. Only one person can negotiate for the democratic caucus. Didn't realize the Democrats were running a dictatorship. I thought the senators had independant minds and ability to act. Negotiating with staff? That were authorized by Walker? What does that matter?

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No matter how you try to spin that, it still exposes Walker as the one who was not willing to sit down at the table with the leader of the Dems.
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You are correct, but there are 14 dem senators. What makes the leader so special that he can't drag himself into Kenosha to negotiate at a McDonalds? Sounds like he has made himself king, and has no problem with tyranny of the minority.

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and now you want to talk about being tired of my reaction.
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Yes, because practically everything you post on here makes me worried that you are one day away from bombing post offices. Calm down, have a drink, and relax. The world will not end, we will not be thrown back into a plantation slavery lifestyle.

Posted by: Bailers | March 9, 2011 9:53 AM | Report abuse

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