This was hardly an ignominious end. Indeed it was a courageous ending. The absurdity of the bailout provisions was rightfully recognized by Senate Republicans.

Imagine waking up today as a low skilled/ uneducated UAW member accustomed to a total hourly wage of $70 per hour. These people whose compensation package was an economic distortion will now receive their just deserts.

And that is as it should be.

mew
altadena, ca

So we'll ultimately be able to blame this fiasco for putting another 2 million or more on the unemployment lines. Congrats, republicans. Proving again you don't have a clue.

I'm sure the 1 million workers and their families that will ultimately be affected by the collapse of the Detroit auto industry will apprecialte "mew/altadena,ca" 's self-righteous gloating.

Merry Christmas too... :(

There's no blame here. This is a victory for the Republicans.

No one wins with the passing or the not passing of the bailout, there are only losers - the only questions is what solution will bring about the most amount of losers? The answer is easy, not passing the bailout will at the end result in an event greater economic hardship for all than passing it.

This $70 per hour figure has been exposed as inaccurate, no, make that a lie over and over again. Current UAW employees at the Big 3 make nothing like that. The figure factors in health care costs for retirees and other costs that do not accrue to workers. The true figure is closer to $55. As Mark Twain said, a lie travels halfway around the world before truth can put its pants on.

By the way, nice job by Biden and Kerry in showing up for the vote and great job by Harry Reid in voting against the bill.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00215

It seems clear to me who is to blame. The senators who are in the pockets of foreign car manufacturers.

They want to bust the unions (who are trying to organize the plants in these so-called "right to work" states). This has long been the goal of some of these people.

They talk about a level playing field. That could also be accomplished by demanding that any foreign company wanting to do business in this country pay their workers American UNION wages. Then all would be equal and we could see if they could compete. Instead, these people want the American workers to drop their wages to those paid by the companies from other countries. I shutter to fear what would be next if they succeeded at this!

We also hear that the U.S. companies are at a disadvantage because of how much they pay in health care for their workers and retirees. And in other countries, these are paid by the government. But these same politicians who want the workers to take cuts to "level the playing field" constantly vote against any field leveling attempt for the U.S. to have a single payer system like many of the countries who ship their cars to us. They are hypocrites. Their real interest is not where they claim.

They claim they do not want to use taxpayer money to help American companies, but look at how they used taxpayer money to lure these foreign companies into their states with tax incentives etc. They are kidding nobody.

Your newspaper could do the country a service by researching these senators who represent the states with foreign-owned car companies and see how much campaign money has been donated to them from people associated with these companies and then publishing it. That would tell the real story and perhaps open up a legal question about donations from those from foreign countries (or at least companies). My guess is they are funneled through Americans, but follow the money and I believe you will find the real blame.

I completely blame the UAW for all our woes. They want my tax dollars to pay their bloated salaries, their cadillac health care coverage, and golden retirement while my family is suffering.

I also blame the Democrats who are financed heavily by the Unions and are willing to sell out all other working Americans for their own greedy purposes.

Both of them and this ridiculous bailout disgust me!

Can someone explain why Senator Harry Reid cast a NO vote??? Reid was one of only three Democratic senators to vote against the bailout. I read it here: http://michellemalkin.com/2008/12/12/final-roll-call-vote-on-the-uaw-bailout/

It's pointless to argue about whether it's $70 per hour or $55 per hour. What we know is that UAW refused to get their wages at parity with Honda and Toyota plant workers within 2009 but instead want to reach that by 2011. If they demand MY tax dollar, and they demand pain for the management, and sharedholders, why shouldn't they share the pain as well? Especially when workers who are not as lucky as they are, are getting laid-off OR getting pay-cuts. Why do they have this sense of entitlement. It's easy for them to just blame, blame, blame the management while they are reaping the rewards (getting paid more than Honda and Toyota; and getting pay guarantees during a bail-out).

nycjew49, look at the link i posted above, the link to the vote on the US Senate page.

Reid voted NO.
Kerry, Kennedy, and Biden didnt even bother to show up.

Those 4 votes would've given them 56. Reid job would've been to apply pressure to those other 3 Dems who voted NO (had he voted YES), TOTAL = 59. They would've needed 1 more vote to pass the bill.

So Kennedy has enough time and energy to lobby on his neice's behalf for that vacant Senate seat but cant travel to DC for this vote?

HARRY REID = EPIC FAIL!

I completely agree with TomfromNJ1's analysis. Everything I would have said, but add:

This is (also) political payback by the Red State senators for the failure of Michigan to vote for McCain.

Note that while they insisted that the UAW agree to wage cuts in the next year, nothing was insisted upon as to management's benies. So it goes...

TomfromNJ1 and bierbelly1 are totally right-on about the auto industry, particularly about the taxpayer money that went to foreign auto makers and the 'red state' Senators payback. I would add: that if W wants to add an honest "talking point" to his presidency he will make a bridge loan to the big three out of that $700 billion bail-out we taxpayers are on the hook for. I'd rather have my money go to the working men and women of this country than the fat cat thieves of Wall Street!

All the talk is about public funding and union negotiations. Based on today's news, I'm disappointed, but not surprised, by the unions' recalcitrance.

But how's this for an idea (not mine--I heard it from Dave Ross (CBS Radio) on WTOP:

WHAT'S KEEPING THE OIL COMPANIES, WITH THEIR BILLION-DOLLAR *RECORD* PROFITS, FROM STEPPING IN TO SAVE THEIR OWN INTERESTS??? Say, a measly 1% to 2% each?

If GM, Chrysler, and Ford go under, millions of people will lose their jobs. These people will not be able to afford to drive their cars nearly as much--the oil companies lose money.

It would take Honda, Toyota, Nissan, et al. a very long time to produce cars to fill the gap left by the Big 3. Car owners, with or without jobs, will drive less to lessen wear and tear and to make their cars last longer--the oil companies lose money.

Honda, Toyota, Nissan, et al. will close the gap with hybrids, electric cars, etc., which use a lot less gas--the oil companies lose money.

I absolutely want to see the transition away from oil and coal, but it's not here yet--and the Big 3 crisis is here now.

Get ExxonMobil, Sunoco, Shell, BP, ..., up on Capitol Hill for some grilling.

"Can someone explain why Senator Harry Reid cast a NO vote??? Reid was one of only three Democratic senators to vote against the bailout. I read it here: http://michellemalkin.com/2008/12/12/final-roll-call-vote-on-the-uaw-bailout/

Posted by: nycjew49 | December 12, 2008 10:29 AM "

It's an arcane procedural thing. Reid voted that way so that under the rules of the Senate, he can bring the bill up again.

For those of you who think the unions are the problem, and the auto companies shouldn't have to pay for their retirement costs, (which should have been fully funded as they went along) I have just one question for you. What if it was you who worked in a company for thirty years, under the agreement that as part of your pay you would have a pension, and suddenly, just as you were retired, and too old to do much else, they suddenly say oops, we can't afford it now, too bad, you'll have to rely on Social Security?....Oh right, Republicans don't want to keep that around either. Good thing we didn't put all of that "trust fund" in the stock market.

There's so much blame to go around here. The bottom line, though, is that this falls squarely on the shoulders of the domestic car manufacturers. No one from top to bottom - CEO to line workers - is blameless. They refused to adapt to the market, and they are now paying the price. If they want tax dollars, they have to show that they are going to make immediate changes to cut costs as well as long term changes to make themselves competitive.

We can point political fingers all day (dems are in the pocket of the UAW, the republicans are trying to bust the unions), but the bottom line is that GM and Chrysler are in this situation because they mismanaged their companies. If they fail, they have no one to blame but themselves.

“That could also be accomplished by demanding that any foreign company wanting to do business in this country pay their workers American UNION wages”...Government will never mandate this because asking the foreign auto makers to increase pay will only drive them to take their plants else where in the world and thus causing more job loss in America. The demand for foreign cars has grown substantially over the years due to the lack of quality of American cars and the unwillingness of American automakers to adapt to changing times. The majority of the blame here has to fall on the UAW and the executives of the big three. It is time to stop bailing out bad businesses. Americans are also to blame for part of this mess. They continued to purchase the largest most gas guzzling SUVs even during times of high gas prices thus helping the big 3 procrastinate in developing more efficient cars which have increased in demand. Just as Americans are to blame for overreaching in taking on loans they knew they couldn’t afford adding to the housing crisis and the constant use of credit cards resulting in mounting debt, which will be the next shoe to drop in this economic crisis.

As for the Reid vote, I believe he originally voted Yea but after seeing the vote would fail changed his vote to Nay for procedural purposes in order to have the ability to bring the bill back up again if needed.

The loss of Consumer purchasing has been a major factor in our economic mess. The loss of following good business practices by Banks, Wall St firms,business firms, auto manufacturers, and our government leading in deficit spending has made foreclosures, bankruptcies, mergers and a loss of trust in our economic structures.Giving money to the very institutions that created the problem requires safeguards and supervision of the use of the donated funds. I suggest that a quick fix to our problem would be to give money to our Consumers, who followed the rules and saved for their retirement days. They lost 40 to 50 % of their Retirement investments due to the falling prices in Wall St transactions. Faced with such large losses in their Retirement accounts, they stopped buying needed capital Goods, such as Cars, Regrigerators, Heating/Air Conditioning equipment, Retirement Homes, Houses, etc.Example: With proof that they have sustained a loss in their Retirement Account,AS AN EXAMPLE: they would go to a Car Dealer, select the car they want to buy, and get a purchase agreement listing the cost WHICH MUST BE LESS THAN THE AMOUNT LOST IN THE RETIREMENT ACCOUNTS. They would then go , i.e. to the United States Emplyment Office where space is provided for this program. The Government employee of the program would check the papers submitted, and a check made payable to the Auto dealer good for 45 days would be given to the Senior citizen.
The Seniors would be most willing to make purchases for needed durable goods, since they would be using money they had already considered lost. The sales of goods would require production of new goods to replenish goods sold. Workers would be re-hired, and the cycle of purchasing increases, Optimism is restored to Consumers and Producers. I can not estimate the cost involved, but it can be better supervised than giving the billions to CEOs who caused our problems. The manufacturer would benefit also, since the buyers would not seek further reduction in price of purchase in order to buy.

To:
mew
altadena, ca
----------------

That's how lies are propagated. They do not make $70 per hour. They earn between $25 - $40. What the GOP wants to wipe out is their benefits package. That's where they get the $69 per hour figure. They do this so people like you can make the statements that you make. What is their real motivation? A desire to maintain a status of haves and have nots in the country because of a narrow minded opinion of how capalitism thrives.

They made NOT ONE such expression concerning ANY exec to receive $700 billion and virtually shot past a blank check. Right now, so far, AIG, who has received over $150 billion, is still about to go bankrupt. They have given their execs million dollar payoffs from taxpayer money. The funds to be for buying off bad mortgages have exercised the loophole in the bill "or as the executor of these funds see fit" to totally change its purpose to just give money away instead of buying these mortgages and we have not changed ONE THING about what has gotten us here in the first place... and now a $15 billion LOAN to Auto companies with execs earning $1 is killed because of the refusal to take a FURTHER paycut to their benefits by the working person? I mean does ANYONE ELSE see this not right?

The Bible calls this "...swallow a camel and strain at a gnat..."

...but back to your asinine comments:

Your salary, is more than what you actually get paid if you have any type of compensation package. But you make it sound like their paycheck reflect's an hourly wage of $70 per hour. Lies to support nonesense.

Also, how do you know the education level of the employees? Are you in their lives? Have you any idea how many of them are college educated or have an education maybe even greater than yours? No, you don't. But you will support a bad choice, probably due to partisanship, on grand assumptions and lies. Way to go. Way to support decisions for our country when we're on the brink of a collapse.

I believe atlliberal is right on the no vote.That has happened quite a few times in recent years on close votes by both parties leading to votes that otherwise make no sense in the context of the senator's voting record. Frequently it causes the senator who brought it up to vote against it. Maybe they could work on the rules.

As for those who want the U.S. car workers to lower their wages to those of foreign competitors, can you not see the handwriting on the wall. To mix a metaphor, the camel is getting his nose in the tent. It would not be long until they are all asking American workers to work for foreign wages. Look at how they already outsource anything they can. The workers' pay has not risen at anywhere near the rate of the "suits."

If they had their way, I doubt if workers could afford to buy their cars.

They also want taxes reduced and they comare them to corporate taxes overseas. Yes, these places have lower corporate taxes, BUT they do not mention how much more the average person there pays in taxes to make up for that. But please do not believe me -- research it and you will find we ordinary people pay far less a percentage of our money for taxes. Now I would not mind paying more taxes for more services -- e.g.,universal single payer health care -- but not to enrich the pockets of the already wealthy running these places.

The GOP senators want to destroy Detroit! They are shilling for foreign motors that have big deals in their states. Look at who is bankrolling these scalawags! Foreign motors and their paid political pals want all wages and benefits depressed to keep their products cheapest and make sure Detroit is no competition. I suggest making the senators work for Honda wages and benefits. Talk about un-American! These goons want to turn every state into West Virginia with rampant poverty surrounded by millionaire Republican warlords.

It's pointless to try to explain the $70.00/hr lie conservative republicans in congress keep repeating.

Congressmen who make $150K+/year plus lifetime health and retirement benefits want UAW members making $27.00/hr + 30%-35% for benefits to take a pay cut.

Labor cost account for 10% of the cost of manufacturing a car sooooo what would UAW have to cut their wages to make the MILLIONAIRE TALKING HEADS ON WHITE WING ENTERTAINMENT TALK RADIO happy?????

Wake up folks! conservative republicans will not be happy until we are all making wal-mart wages and have wal-mart benefits!!

So keep getting you information from MILLIONAIRE TALKING HEADS ON WHITE WING ENTERTAINMENT TALK RADIO because they care about you!!! ha ha ha har har har!!!!

What have the Republicans got to loose? Maybe the "old scores" comment was right on, but then, UAW has been raising funds and campaigning against them for the last 40 years. I sure as heck can't blame them.

And, of course, realpolitik point number two is that there is the other car industry in the south supporting many foreign car manufacturers. People that are happy to have jobs even at lower wages.

Let's see, Republicans owe the UAW nothing and are looking out for their own constituents. That's the way it works, isn't it?

TomfromNJ1, UAW wages are reportdly less than Toyota - $29 something to $30 something avg. The legacy costs push it up. Search the Post for UAW wages.

Anyway. It is fascinating to see that while Rome burns politicians are playing the game BAU. Right votes right - Left votes left. All spout nonsense. TARP will bail them out, kick the can down the road.

We Americans have lost complete touch with reality. We live in Utopia compared to [pick poor nation and type here, if you're not sure throw a dart at a world map]. We're experiencing a great unwinding of excess.

Nature wins in the end and all will be balanced. We know this intuitively yet we'll use the last drop of oil and the last lump of coal to build another stone head.

Procedural or not, Reid voted NO and couldn't even get 3 high-rollers in the Senate to show up for the vote (Kennedy, Biden, Kerry) and couldn't even manage to have ALL Democrats to vote YES.

If Reid would've accomplished that, the YEA's would've been 59. Just add some PORK to some obscure state and make that 1 republican senator change his vote.

60 - EASY PEASY.

REID = EPIC FAIL!

This one is on the GOP.

Corker, DeMint, McConnell, and Shelby saw a business opportunity that they could exploit in a crisis. For decades their states have been living on the government dole -- getting a $2 return for every $1 of tax that they put into the federal system. The have been living on handouts from the midwest and workers from the UAW.

Yet, when workers in the midwest encounter hard times, those cowards turn their backs on fellow Americans?

Something is not right in that equation.

As far as the $70 wage myth.

New workers for GM and the Big Three make $14 to $16 an hour.

You couldn't even pay David Vitter's prostitute expenses with that kind of wage.

spidey103

?!?!?? A victory? A Victory? Dude, this country is on the brink of a COLLAPSE. Millions of people are about to lose their jobs in a matter of weeks! By the way, if there are no cars being made by these people, then there are no cars being shipped. If no cars are shipped, then no cars are bought. If no cars are bought, then less cars will be in need of repairs or maintenance. If less cars are in need of mainenance, then less parts are needed. If less parts are needed then contracts for parts end at the brake shoe plant, the metal working plant, the textiles plant, the tire manufacturing plant, the local rail workers will have less freight. Warhouse workers will have less stock. Truck drivers will have NO car freight to haul... oh wait, there will still be the Toyotas, the Hondas, the Hyundai plants... oh yeah, I forgot... the foreign automaker plants and support industries will continue to exist...

...victory for the republicans though...

Look, do you have ANY idea how many companies out there will be affected by this?

I bet you think the effect of this ends in Detroit, don't you? More than likely, in the town that you live, the ripple effect will be felt. The ripple effect of this touches so many industries, your town will have to exist in a vacuum to not feel some effect by this. Maybe even by you yourself... but it's a victory for the Republicans eh? That's what's important here. To hell with the lives of millions of people, what's important is the victory for Republicans.

My God! What is going on, here?