Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity

The VP Debate: The Strangest I've Ever Seen

Exactly an hour into the debate, Joe Biden began an answer by saying, "Facts matter, Gwen."

To him, maybe. To Sarah Palin, maybe not. The pattern, so far, has been one of Biden presenting facts and Palin countering with… saying stuff. Sometimes she throws in a fact, but mostly she seems to be offering a string of approximate policy positions, encomiums to the American spirit, disputed interpretations of Barack Obama's record and anecdotes from Alaska.

She has a certain charm, but I wonder how viewers are reacting to the way she just declines to answer the question at hand and pivots to more solid ground. I had forgotten how effective Biden can be in these debates. So far, he hasn't been patronizing or insulting. In terms of working-class street cred, Palin is in a league – or a universe – of her own. (Don't ya think?) But Biden holds his own.

I confess, though, I don't know what anybody is making of this. I don't even know what I'm making of it. This is the strangest debate I've ever seen. It seems like an interplanetary exchange, with poor Gwen Ifill trying to keep the Enterprise from falling into the wormhole.

By Eugene Robinson  | October 2, 2008; 10:22 PM ET
Categories:  Robinson  | Tags:  Eugene Robinson  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: The VP Debate: On Benefits for Same-Sex Couples
Next: The VP Debate: Remember Health Care

Comments

Biden's on point. Palin keeps spouting the same banalities over and over again, punctuated with cute little nose scrunches. And she's ready to answer tough questions without the filtering of the mainstream media? Don't think so. There just isn't much there.

Posted by: tanglewood | October 2, 2008 10:34 PM | Report abuse

They also have alot of polls there, Seems Every one thinks Biden won. You can go participate in the Polls on the VP debate
http://www.mccanes.com/watchdebatevp.html

You can go see Palin and Biden practice for the Debate. Watch VP debate Outtakes., Palin makes mistakes while practicing for the debate WatchDebate.com

Posted by: pastor123 | October 2, 2008 10:36 PM | Report abuse

really? so when biden denied, by saying barrack NEVER said he'd sit down with iran and the other rogue states. what do you call that? truth? your bias reeks.

Posted by: postaway | October 2, 2008 10:39 PM | Report abuse

Biden kicked a$$! He was nuanced in his answers--explaining complex policy issues in clear and understandable terms to the average American.

While Palin wasn't caught in a "moose in the headlights" moment, she definitely was still spouting the same lame lines. No original thought, no knowledge base--more of the same.

OBAMA/BIDEN '08

Posted by: DinahS | October 2, 2008 10:47 PM | Report abuse

I thought she was frequently on the edge of incoherence. Not to mention totally avoiding many questions as posed.

Posted by: scientist1 | October 2, 2008 10:48 PM | Report abuse

Palin: USA USA USA
Biden: Rational arguments, facts, refutations, excellent poiint.

Biden wins. McCain is toast

Posted by: roboturkey | October 2, 2008 10:48 PM | Report abuse

She wants to expand the powers of the Vice Presidency. I think that's all we need to know. If you think life has been frightening with Cheney at the helm of the VP... imagine Palin with more power than Cheney. I'm going to have nightmares tonight.

Posted by: DogBitez | October 2, 2008 10:49 PM | Report abuse

She scares me! Governor Palin wants to expand the power of the VP--MORE THAN CHENEY--YIKES!!! Then, she told the moderator (and us) that she wasn't there to answer the moderator's questions. Oh gee, I am sorry, I didn't know this was "an evening with Sarah Palin."

Posted by: Prosperity2008 | October 2, 2008 10:51 PM | Report abuse

most debaters at least pretend to deal with the question asked and then somehow manage to pretend that what they really want to talk about is relevant. oldest trick in the book

I have never heard any candidate simply say to the moderator that she couldn't care less what the question was, she was going to discuss whatever the heck she wanted

and that's when she understood the question at all. when asked about her real weaknesses (achille's heel), Biden discussed his, she talked about how great a team she and McCain would be. on several other ocassions, her answer displayed that she completely misunderstood the question because she did't pretend to deliberately not answer.

in general, she just threw talking points out like they had been stuffed in her head regardless of their relevance to the question.

goofy

Posted by: JoeT1 | October 2, 2008 10:52 PM | Report abuse

Biden kicked Bimbo Palins A$$! Half of the time she seemed to be reading her comments... I am oh so glad McCrazy is telling her how to think! Once again she keeps repeating idiotic, lame, republican regurgitated talking points....God save us from Republicans....once again Democrats have to step in and clean up their mess...and OH! What a mess it is!!!!

Posted by: nallcando | October 2, 2008 10:52 PM | Report abuse

I agree, Eugene, they were on different planets even though I appreciated the civility, which was a contrast to McCain's incivility. What struck me was not only Biden's quickness and complete grasp of everything, also his ease and depth of intelligence, but also his incredible depth of feeling. Talk about passion! I loved his passion and his speaking about his family. What's so surprising to me, a woman, is that Sarah Palin sounded very rote, very unfeeling about almost everything. She seemed perky and much more articulate than in the last two weeks, but she had a "memorized" answer to almost every question. I didn't see much spontaneous thought or feeling! She talks about "all the great folks in Alaska" but it doesn't seem like most of my women friends, who show deep feeling. It was Joe who had the passion and depth of feeling. I loved him.

Now I'm even more an Obama/Biden fan than ever!! In Joe, we have experience, honor, honesty, straight-talk, and a family man and parent I can relate to. I'm not just saying that. Sarah did not convince me that she "felt" anything. She seems to me like someone trying to be lovable and cute. But where is her heart, where is her empathy for others. Surprisingly, it wasn't there. Sorry, but it wasn't "real".


Posted by: cturtle1 | October 2, 2008 10:53 PM | Report abuse

_______________________________________________
Bizarre Palin : Bizarre debate !
_________________________________________________

Palin is refusing to answer the question asked.
She is formulating her own question.
And then keep giving same gibberish answer with lots of the word 'Energy ' thrown in.

_____________________________________________

Everyone must watch : Bizarro
_______________________________________________

Posted by: guru21 | October 2, 2008 10:57 PM | Report abuse

In the shadow of the blatant and stunning sexism launched against the Hillary Clinton presidential campaign by Barack Hussein Obama and the liberal media, democratic Hillary supporters were thrilled to hear John McCain announce Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate, because, she offers Americans a chance to vote for someone who is her own woman, and who represents a party that, while we don't agree on all the issues, at least respects women enough to take them seriously.

Having a woman in the White House, and not as The Spouse, is a change whose time has come, despite the fact that the media and Democratic Party leaders have decided otherwise. But with the Sarah Palin’s nomination, Clinton voters, in particular, have received a political wake-up call they never expected. Having watched their candidate and their principles betrayed by the very people who are supposed to be the flame-holders for equal rights and fairness, they now looking across the aisle and see a woman who represents everything the feminist movement claimed it stood for. Women can have a family and a career.

The democratic party’s bullying of the Clinton candidacy during the primary season was the first revelation of how misogynistic and sexist the democratic party has become. The democratic party has moved from taking the female vote for granted to outright contempt for women. That's why Sarah Palin represents the most serious conservative threat ever to the modern democratic liberal claim on issues of male cultural and social superiority.
The time is now for a woman to be in the White House as an equal partner in governance.

The time is now for John McCain/Sarah Palin.

Country First! McCain/Palin

Posted by: Manolete | October 2, 2008 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Yes a very strange debate Eugene. Sarah wants to amend the constitution and legislate from the VP’s office! A new team McCain priority it would seem. Seriously she’s never seen Russia from Alaska and Vietnam remains the seminal post WW2 tragedy. Mr. McCain is proof of that. Sad.

Posted by: BarryOR | October 2, 2008 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Palin did an excellent job parroting the same lines she's used again and again.

Biden answered the questions with facts and interpretations, while Palin fell back on the stump speech and previously refuted charges.

Those winks, the nose-scrunching mugging for the camera, and her patronizing tone may work for her base, but I find them offensive. And could they PLEASE stop saying the word "maverick"? By now, it's a meaningless chant.

Posted by: joanna_47 | October 2, 2008 10:59 PM | Report abuse

Don't try to call it and claim any victory either way.

Palin was not a buffoon.

A solid 42% of this electorate had their fondest dream realized.

Don't cha know she was invigoratin'.

Posted by: RepublicanVNEraVet | October 2, 2008 11:00 PM | Report abuse

For most of the debate, it seemed as if she was reading the news: eyes fixed on the camera, smiley, and saying things that seemed to be in a teleprompter but not coming from her head. She gave no facts, I guess because it was hard enough for her to memorize so many talking points in the last 5 days in Arizona. I was afraid of Biden's gaffes, but I have to say, he was flawless tonight. Two months ago, I was voting for McCain. Today I confirmed my vote for Obama.

(And sorry for these minor details, but she said "nucular" several times(like W!!), and the "bosniaks"!. Plop.

Posted by: jugazf1 | October 2, 2008 11:01 PM | Report abuse

Someone explain to Palin that "Achilles Heel" refers to the area of vulnerability - you know Achilles, Paris, the Brad Pitt movie.

Palin obviously thought the question referred to her strengths, not weaknesses.

What a dope.

Posted by: AndyfromVA | October 2, 2008 11:01 PM | Report abuse

there just ain't much goin on upstairs...she is like clueless on like almost everything. answer the questions sarah....thats what we do in debates.

Posted by: rayreyns | October 2, 2008 11:01 PM | Report abuse

Biden could be President.

The Alaska Welfare Queen?

Har-de-har-har-har...

Posted by: pali2500 | October 2, 2008 11:01 PM | Report abuse

She did not understand the Achilles Heel question. It went right over her head. She sounds like she was repeating what she has memorized for last few weeks.

I still think she is an airhead.

Posted by: shirleypettaway | October 2, 2008 11:02 PM | Report abuse

WHAT IS THE WASHINGTON POST'S OBSESSION WITH NEGRO COLUMNISTS, EVERY ONE OF WHOM IS A FLAMING INNER CITY RACIST? IS THIS SOME KIND OF CONSENT DECREE? JESUS!

Posted by: res08hao | October 2, 2008 11:02 PM | Report abuse

Robinson, King and Dionne and the "amen" chorus of posters here chanting "Biden Won. Biden Won"...

Not quite. First of all, the real loser tonight is Tina Fey, because her routine will no longer bite since Palin at least held her own. Secondly, Palin has removed herself as a "campaign issue"- she has the competence and ability to serve as VP, as does Biden.

It is now back to "who do you agree with", rather than "is she competent". Any comment to the contrary is just pure spin.

Posted by: dyinglikeflies1 | October 2, 2008 11:03 PM | Report abuse

Don't be so itchy! Don't you know you're tilting your upset, scared hand? Just because our "gal" is ready, willing and especially ABLE to reform Washington for real, instead of some dude with 144 days of pre-campaign senatorial "experience," doesn't mean you need to get so upset about it!

Relax.

Posted by: LMyassoff | October 2, 2008 11:03 PM | Report abuse

I was scared when she said the VP was in charge of the Senate and indicated that she would set the agenda they would deal with. Shades of Dick Cheney in drag. Can we say "lipstick on a pig" now? She just announced she didn't care what questions Gwen Ifill was asking or Joe Biden was rebutting she was going to ask and answer he own questions, that is a very new way to debate, make your own. If this is what we want for another 4 years vote McPalin, me I will be voting Obama/Biden and I am a totally disabled Vietnam and GW1 Army Infantry Veteran.

Posted by: mikey30919 | October 2, 2008 11:03 PM | Report abuse

Hey BarryOr - You picked that up too! Good job.

Posted by: theodosia1 | October 2, 2008 11:03 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, but everytime I look at Gov. Palin, all I can see is a PTA president

Posted by: jtlawler1 | October 2, 2008 11:03 PM | Report abuse

Can anyone actually see Sarah Palin just a heartbeat away from the Presidency? It's like seeing George W in drag! She avoided answering questions directly. She made most of her "answers" sound like a speech. She had no depth with any of the subject matter at all. NO WAY!!

Posted by: vernoncormier | October 2, 2008 11:03 PM | Report abuse

Take off your Obama glasses and climb out of the Obama tank.

Biden is the past; Sarah is the future.

Posted by: rahaha | October 2, 2008 11:04 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else notice how Palin shunned the whole debate by saying that she would not answer the questions of the moderator? There are some who say that was misleading. But after watching her in her entirety, it was proof to me that she absolutely meant it. She was never on topic, she never cited anything that had to do with policies, all she did was pander to the masses with the same old crap that we've been hearing ever since she popped on the ticket. But, one gaffe (that will probably not get much mention) made the entire night worth it.

Palin: "Senator McCain has already tapped me"

Posted by: XanderB | October 2, 2008 11:05 PM | Report abuse

Sarah, the word is NUCLEAR! ***!!!***** After hearing her say "nucular" about a dozen times, all I could thing was PLEASE, WE CAN'T TAKE ANY MORE YEARS OF THAT!!!!!

Posted by: MelGurney3 | October 2, 2008 11:05 PM | Report abuse

I have to give Palin an A for effort and think she did a good job. BIden also did a good job. However, I don't think Palin convinced anyone except hard core Repubs that a McCain/Palin ticket was better than an Obama/Biden ticket. Debate was a draw in terms of presentation but in case of substance, Biden is the winner.

Posted by: skolniks | October 2, 2008 11:05 PM | Report abuse

How can anybody say she didn't answer questions directly??? She gave a quite coherent reply to almost every question, "Maverick! Maverick! Maverick!"

She said it so often, I thought I was watching "Top Gun" and that she was Kelly McGillis.

Posted by: DaveInDC1 | October 2, 2008 11:05 PM | Report abuse

I'm trying to recall any other debate I have watched or participated in where one of the debaters baldly stated "I'm not going to answer the questions put to me by the moderator or my opponent. I have memorized my talking points and do not want to be confused by ideas not previoulsy scripted for me." That isn't debate. That's advertising.

Posted by: patrickjustus | October 2, 2008 11:05 PM | Report abuse

She had no answer to Biden's portrayal of McCain's health care plan.

America isn't stupid. Or deaf, dumb and blind.

Posted by: pali2500 | October 2, 2008 11:05 PM | Report abuse

"Biden is the past; Sarah is the future."

You're absolutely right. With Biden, we will put the past behind us. With Sarah, we will have no future.

Posted by: XanderB | October 2, 2008 11:06 PM | Report abuse

And also, I have to add, now that I've seen some replay, she has the same facial expression throughout. A fixed grin (and yes, she has a nice smile which says, "Aren't I the most adorable") that reminds me more of a quiz show contestant than a serious politician. Wow, Biden is genuine! I'm really impressed with the guy we haven't seen much of. Sarah seemed coached and careful and hitting one emotional note all night. That's not genuine, even if it's perfectly acceptable. But Biden blew me away!

Posted by: cturtle1 | October 2, 2008 11:06 PM | Report abuse

I got a great education on Joe Biden tonight. To be honest, I had never been that impressed by him, not even after is speech at the convention.
What impressed me most?

HE IS A GENTLEMAN and a GOOD GUY.

He had a lot of chances to really jump on her, but he passed it up. He could have really destroyed her because she is obviously a lightweight, but he didn't.
That was very impressive. Afterwards, he seemed like he was genuinely warm and friendly toward her and her family.
Now I LIKE JOE BIDEN. He's the kind of guy I would like to have for a friend.
I know that sounds corny, but now, more than ever, I see him as he is.
Why is this important? Because I see now that Obama made a very human choice in picking him.
This is great.
I have been scheming and making plans to get the hell out of America.
Now I have hope.
I will sleep soundly tonight.
Thank you, Joe Biden.

Posted by: Tomcat3 | October 2, 2008 11:06 PM | Report abuse

How can you debate against a tape recorder??

Posted by: winnetoo | October 2, 2008 11:06 PM | Report abuse

I am with you Mr. Robinson, I can't make heads or tails of what I've seen. This sounds worse than I mean it to, but it reminded me of a conversation I had with a person with Alzheimer's disease I met at my Dad's nursing home. The words were words, the sentences were sentences, there were even a few discernible paragraphs. But nothing made sense. Though I did get the fact that Palin discovered oil in Alaska. That's good.

Posted by: orr22 | October 2, 2008 11:06 PM | Report abuse

I'd say this was analogous to comparing a student who had never come to class but crammed for the final to a student who had been to class most of the semester and didn't really have to do a lot of last minute studying.
She was OK but Biden clearly outclassed her.

Posted by: aallen1 | October 2, 2008 11:07 PM | Report abuse

Oh yes, country first! Obama/Biden 08.

Posted by: skolniks | October 2, 2008 11:07 PM | Report abuse

An excellent, excellent post. Thank you.

p.s. - she -does- look a little Romulan, no?

Posted by: brmanski | October 2, 2008 11:08 PM | Report abuse

palin will help mccain win -- debating schmebating -- americans twice elected george w bush who's dumber than dirt -- palin's a jesus freak & that's enough to make americans vote for mccain

Posted by: herbert-de-turbot | October 2, 2008 11:08 PM | Report abuse

I'm so glad other people thought it was just bizarre. Whenever I watch these things I fear that I am the only person, with my own biased views, who sees things a certain way. Biden talked policy, specific legislation, real issues, and then Palin followed up with some non sequitur about energy policy and mavericks. To be fair, she was well rehearsed and seemingly comfortable in her skin, but prepared to be president? Umm, no. Clearly.

Posted by: AmirA2 | October 2, 2008 11:08 PM | Report abuse

You are so, so very damn bias for Obama that you can't stand when a woman beats his vice presidential nominee in a debate.

You radical liberal in bed with Obama, suck it up; Palin won this one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: love234america | October 2, 2008 11:08 PM | Report abuse

god I wish Gwen Ifill was running for election.

Posted by: danzigism | October 2, 2008 11:08 PM | Report abuse

I don't mind a maverick as governor, or a maverick as senator, but who on earth wants a maverick for president??

Posted by: winnetoo | October 2, 2008 11:08 PM | Report abuse

I am going to have reoccurring nightmares about that incessant wink of hers. Hopefully Obama gets elected so I can get healthcare to take care of those. :P

Posted by: XanderB | October 2, 2008 11:09 PM | Report abuse

Sarah Palin didn't stumble or make as much a fool of herself as I had expected after her last couple of interviews. She seemed poised throughout the debate (except for one question that seemed to catch her off-guard- was it the gay marriage one?), was assured in her answers and smiled charmingly the whole time. She was almost dazzling in her eloquence sometimes! And her enthusiasm can be really infectious- until you stop and actually THINK about what she just said. There was rarely any actual substance in her answers, just a lot of cheerleading rhetoric.... Unfortunately, though, some people will fall for the charm and the enthusiasm (what a beacon of hope she is!) and won't analyze how much substance there was/ is to her.

Posted by: mauricienne | October 2, 2008 11:09 PM | Report abuse

Gosh, Eugene, you think Obama's guy won the debate? Easily? Really? Stop the presses, breaking news!

Posted by: jd5024 | October 2, 2008 11:10 PM | Report abuse

Just like Tom Brokaw said, the Democrats tonight are just glad there is only one vice presidental debate. Now that is an unbias news man. We need some like him today.

Posted by: love234america | October 2, 2008 11:10 PM | Report abuse

Just for you 'manolete' for insisting on being a jerk:

John Hussein McChicken and Sarah Hussein McMoose. NOt good for country - too much fast food.

Country first! Obama/Biden 08.

Posted by: skolniks | October 2, 2008 11:10 PM | Report abuse

Blenders??? I didn't know we made blenders in Iraq. I thought they were made in China. Boy was I ever mistaken.

Posted by: bscothorn | October 2, 2008 11:11 PM | Report abuse

I would LOVE to see a woman win the White House. I voted for HRC in the primary - NOT because I merely wanted A woman in the White House, but THAT woman. Sarah Palin aint' Hillary - so be seein' ya! Sarah!

Posted by: cymric | October 2, 2008 11:11 PM | Report abuse

As this was not a clear win for either party, I'd like to see some more interaction between the two candidates. Palin was up to the task, however, Biden slammed dunked almost every question asked.

When Biden choked up regarding his family's tragedy from long ago, so did I. Very powerful tonight. This was a very good debate overall.

GB -

Posted by: gbpluspcrepair | October 2, 2008 11:11 PM | Report abuse

Congrats Palin, she met the expectations, though ignoring some questions.

Also, apparently the two tickets agree on almost everything that matters to most except Iraq. The only difference seems to be that R will continue the war while D promises to end it.

Posted by: pkkm | October 2, 2008 11:12 PM | Report abuse

There is absolutely no way that Republican apologists can try to spin this into anything other than a miserable failure for McCain's camp. No, Palin didn't puke on her shoes, and that's probably enough to get the Republicans whooping it up, but that just shows you how low their expectations are. Clearly, there was only one person on that stage tonight who belonged, and that was Joe Biden.

Palin is cutesy and folksy, gosh darn it doncha' know, but she's completely out of her league. She really is Bush with lipstick.

When the moderator has more gravitas than the candidate, you know you're in trouble.

Posted by: jkreth | October 2, 2008 11:12 PM | Report abuse

"I confess, though, I don't know what anybody is making of this. I don't even know what I'm making of it. This is the strangest debate I've ever seen. It seems like an interplanetary exchange, with poor Gwen Ifill trying to keep the Enterprise from falling into the wormhole"

This is Robinson's way of unwittingly admitting that Gov. Palin just won the election.

Posted by: EnoughISEnough | October 2, 2008 11:12 PM | Report abuse

Biden presented some fact but also presented some non-facts - like Obsma's voting record (if you can call that a voting record as he spent most of his political life as a senator running for president). Biden talked as though he were speaking on the floor of congress. He spewed his normal stuff while Palin was energetic and believable. This article from Robinson was "the strangest that I've ever seen". Obviously he's an Obama supporter... Just like all the other liberal media, he cannot be fair or objective about this election or any other thing that matters.

Posted by: NotLiberal1 | October 2, 2008 11:12 PM | Report abuse

To all those who are claiming this person is biased who wrote this column...notice the title. See the word "opinion"? Ever heard of an opinion? Because your nonsensical spouting of GOP rhetoric suggests otherwise.

Posted by: XanderB | October 2, 2008 11:12 PM | Report abuse

Yup! The scariest part by far was when Palin said she wanted to expand vice-presidential powers. (Shades of Dick Cheney.)

I got the feeling throughout the whole debate that it wasn't really about John McCain's candidacy... it was all about Palin eventually becoming president.

And she just kept saying the same thing over and over... didn't bother with the actual questions most of the time.

And she can't pronounce INFRASTRUCTURE.

"INFA-STRUCTURE", she says. Maybe it means something to do with infants?

Posted by: mavisdarling | October 2, 2008 11:12 PM | Report abuse

Palin is correct about small business owners...

Already due to Clintons policies all manufacturing industries went to China,

If Obama Biden is elected all will be jobless and see Obama Biden as patriots

Posted by: paulmatjeski1 | October 2, 2008 11:13 PM | Report abuse

In answer to your question, have you ever listened to Barack Obama answer a question. That tactic seems to work for him. She does not have 35 years of experience but it certainly is evident that if given the opportunity, she will learn quickly, which is not the case of some of our present lawmakers. Which party "doesn't get it"?

Posted by: wylenehayes | October 2, 2008 11:13 PM | Report abuse

Biden was more substantive, Palin had more sparkle. But there is a double standard here. Would a male candidate for vice president be taken seriously by anyone if he ran as a soccer dad, hockey dad, Joe 6 Pack kind of guy who was from outside of Washington? Or would everyone think he should be running for city council instead of vice president? Sparkle is great for beauty pageants, but vice presidents need substance.

Posted by: AnnTerry | October 2, 2008 11:13 PM | Report abuse

God, I love you, Robinson. I don't always LIKE you, but you're dead on in this analysis!

Posted by: took1 | October 2, 2008 11:13 PM | Report abuse

She rambled on and on about energy policy when asked about the changes in bankruptcy laws. She obviously does not know anything about Dick Cheney's crazy fantasy about unlimited power and what a big scandal that was. She was downright disrespectful towards the moderator, declaring that she will NOT answer questions posed to her. She is by far the most ignorant, obnoxious, and offensive politician I've ever seen, even worse than Bush!

Posted by: motherforobama | October 2, 2008 11:13 PM | Report abuse

Palin had everything written out for her. She couldn't tell us what newspaper she reads the other day and now she's answering questions about Darfur. If I have to listen her calling McCain a Maverick for the next four years I'm gonna shoot myself. That Maverick has had 22 years to do the things he's talking about and look where we are now. He waits for the bottom to fall out then decides it needs fixing. I wish Biden had it in him to tell the American people how much money the Bush family is making in Iraq. Look up (Bush family war profiteers) and you'll see why we're really there.

Posted by: HemiHead66 | October 2, 2008 11:14 PM | Report abuse

Was Palin's interview with Katie Couric staged to create low expectations? Remember Bush had the same low expectation with regard to the debate with Gore and it worked.

Palin has a certain charisma; it's not Clintonesque or Reganesque but all her own. It is that charisma that helps you forget that what she is saying is basically trash. I hope voters see it for what it is.

Posted by: JPSartre | October 2, 2008 11:14 PM | Report abuse

Extremely weird debate. I thought Biden was excellent, although he could have challenged Palin even more on her obvious distortions and refusal to answer the questions. Palin - Good Lord! Avoiding the questions and blathering the same baloney over and over .... accusing Biden of constantly "looking back" when that's what she did most of the time. And why do I find it so nauseating when she tries to be "charming?" In tring to be sincere, she just comes across as, well, insincere. It would also be great if she could properly pronounce "nuclear." 8 years of "newcular" is enough.

Oh, and Manolete, please take Mr. Biden's advice and read what the constitution says about Vice Presidential power and responsibilities. If, heaven forbid, McCain is elected, Palin would not be "in the White House" - they're not roommates - and she wouldn't be his "equal partner."

Posted by: lizzabizza | October 2, 2008 11:14 PM | Report abuse

Seriously, one has to wonder why McCain chose Palin as his VP. She's clearly outclassed outside of Alaska, and a liability to his ticket. So much the better for Obama. McCain has already lost the race.

Posted by: empiricism | October 2, 2008 11:15 PM | Report abuse

I was amazed that most of the talking heads just took off saying "well, Palin didn't die in this one" and only one of them had the honesty to say she did not answer most of the questions given to her. If she is elected, God help us all.

Posted by: maggieww | October 2, 2008 11:16 PM | Report abuse

Palin had so much trouble pronouncing words...Nuclear, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Biden (O'Biden was too funny)...well it would take less time to list the words she DID pronounce right. I'm sorry, but if we as Americans want the smartest lawyers/doctors/senators/etc, why is it we want English language-destroying country folk running this country?

Posted by: XanderB | October 2, 2008 11:16 PM | Report abuse

I had visions earlier today that Sarah would come on, start talking, and then yell, "LIve from NY, it's Saturday Night Live"!!!

But seriously, while I don't think she presented a good case for McCain, I think she presented herself well, and you have to admit, she's got chutzpah. I would not try to put down a person for making an effort and I think she made an admirable effort. I just don't agree with her policies and she did not convince me that McCain would make a good president.

Country first! OBama/Biden 08.

Posted by: skolniks | October 2, 2008 11:16 PM | Report abuse

I thought the VP debate was a wash and not a game changer for either ticket. Palin had to do only one thing and that was to improve the image she had conveyed during the Gibson and Couric interviews. Biden only needed to be seen as treating her as an equal and to emerge gaffe free. I think they both succeeded. That said, Palin is the only one of the two who is woefully unqualified for the job.

Posted by: Nautico | October 2, 2008 11:17 PM | Report abuse

Oh give it up you ridiculous shill. You wrote this silly blurb before the debate even started. You lost any credibility a long time ago Eugene.

Posted by: pwaa | October 2, 2008 11:17 PM | Report abuse

Palin Said

Sen. Biden, you would remember that, in that energy plan that Obama voted for, that's what gave those oil companies those big tax breaks. Your running mate voted for that.

You know what I had to do in the state of Alaska? I had to take on those oil companies and tell them, "No," you know, any of the greed there that has been kind of instrumental, I guess, in their mode of operation, that wasn't going to happen in my state.

And that's why Tillerson at Exxon and Mulva at ConocoPhillips, bless their hearts, they're doing what they need to do, as corporate CEOs, but they're not my biggest fans, because what I had to do up there in Alaska was to break up a monopoly up there and say, you know, the people are going to come first and we're going to make sure that we have value given to the people of Alaska with those resources.

And those huge tax breaks aren't coming to the big multinational corporations anymore, not when it adversely affects the people who live in a state and, in this case, in a country who should be benefiting at the same time.

So it was Barack Obama who voted for that energy plan that gave those tax breaks to the oil companies that I then had to turn around, as a governor of an energy-producing state, and kind of undo in my own area of expertise, and that's energy.

Palin is correct

Posted by: paulmatjeski1 | October 2, 2008 11:17 PM | Report abuse

I think the debate was strange because of the moral superiority that Palin asserted by her demeanor, her refusal to answer questions and the remark about Biden's views on Iraq, especially because your son is there. The debate was not about issues, but insults. And that moral (fundamentalist) arrogance is appalling, but, to many, effective. I hope H. L. Mencken was wrong and Governor Palin's "underestimating the American public" fails.

Posted by: jelderbrat | October 2, 2008 11:18 PM | Report abuse

ROBINSONS COMMENTS AS DUMB AS I HAVE EVER SEEN

He’s a typical mindless liberal who probably wrote the column before the debate went on and went off and watched cartoons.

Strange? Stranger then when Reagan spaced out and talked about a trip he took though America or when Quail got roasted in his debate. The fact is Palian did remarkable well and Biden did better. It was like Palian hit a double and Biden hit a home run.

The claim: Biden said Obama did not say he would meet with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. "This is simply not true about Barack Obama," he said. "He did not say sit down with Ahmadinejad."
The facts: At a news conference in New York City in September 2007, Obama was asked, "Senator, you've said before that you'd meet with President Ahmadinejad … would you still meet with him today?" He replied: "Yeah, nothing's changed with respect to my belief that strong countries and strong presidents talk to their enemies and talk to their adversaries."

Posted by: 6106310 | October 2, 2008 11:18 PM | Report abuse

Note to Governor Palin:

"Achilles Heel" is a weakness, a fatal flaw.

You know, like kryptonite is to Superman?

I'm sure you know about Superman, with all of the various and myriad sources of published information you read regularly.

(Oh, and "myriad" is an elitist way of saying "a lot"...)

Posted by: Paul_C | October 2, 2008 11:18 PM | Report abuse

Joe Biden's answers were sound and made sense. It was clear that Palin only knew what she could remember from her script and being a woman, knows how to run her mouth or out talk Biden. I am disappointed with Gwen Ifill for not holding her to the questions which she didn't answer some of them. If she and McCain is elected, I may go to Canada for four years because this country will go under with those two.

Posted by: thegirl119 | October 2, 2008 11:18 PM | Report abuse

But gosh, well you betcha and darn it and dog gone it. We're gonna fix the hurts. I'm not going to answer that question-- I'm gonna read from my notes because we're mavericks, (nose wrinkle), and we're all about change (big smile).

Posted by: mel4 | October 2, 2008 11:18 PM | Report abuse

Joe Biden definitely won this debate. He always answered the questions put forth by the moderator; whereas, Sarah Palin simply skipped over the questions she didn't wish to (or couldn't) answer and chose her own topic!

It's certain that Sarah Palin is NOT ready for the V.P. position, NOR would she be ready to take over the presidency should (God forbid) John McCain become president.

I'm astounded that the good people of Alaska have put up with Ms. Palin as their governor for the past two years. Sure, she's got a great smile and a cute little wink, but that's not enough to serve as V.P. of our great country.

I can see why Obama picked Senator Biden as his running mate -- they are a great match!

Posted by: bethinWA | October 2, 2008 11:18 PM | Report abuse

My wife says it was a draw.

Posted by: washpost16 | October 2, 2008 11:19 PM | Report abuse

I have no faith that American Citizens will care whether or not Sarah Palin knows anything - anything at all - about foreign policy, complex finanical crises, taxes or energy policy. I don't think people vote on issues anymore.

God Love Gwen, though.

Posted by: kristinswanson | October 2, 2008 11:20 PM | Report abuse

We all agree with the fact that Senator McCain is only one who is really fought for America in the past. But there is another question.
Nobody can deny the fact that a young American soldier John McCain had lost his war in Vietnam. How he could win even tougher war at his 80s is the question.

Posted by: batts | October 2, 2008 11:20 PM | Report abuse

I thought Palin did a GREAT job. Of course so did Biden but he's a seasoned pro. Or as she said a "Washington Insider" who's done this many times!

Posted by: ksulli21 | October 2, 2008 11:20 PM | Report abuse

I won't say who won the debate either way, but I will say this. Biden seemed more down to earth "for the middle class" kind of guy, and Palin seemed animatronic, just pull the string and she spouts pre-scripted comments.

Posted by: XanderB | October 2, 2008 11:21 PM | Report abuse

Talking about "FACTS MATTER":
By NEDRA PICKLER
The Associated Press
Tuesday, July 24, 2007; 4:18 PM

In Tuesday's two-hour debate from Charleston, S.C., Obama was asked if he would be willing to meet _ without precondition _ in the first year of his presidency with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea.

"I would," he responded.

Posted by: mrducster | October 2, 2008 11:21 PM | Report abuse

Sarah Palin wasn't as polished as Biden, but she does have an ability to connect with the people. She doesn't have 30 years experience in the senate and clearly doesn't have the degree of knowledge that Joe Biden has on national politics, but she appears to be learning fast. She has been focusing on governing her state and has done a great job thus far. I'm sure if she is given the opportunity, she will be a great Vice President. She isn't a old Washington insider (which is a good thing). She isn't a corrupt politician from the Chicago Machine and that is a good thing as well. She is a breath of fresh air and will bring good things to Washington ...

Go Sarah !!!

Posted by: mythought02 | October 2, 2008 11:22 PM | Report abuse

Palin was trying to be too cute, I don't know how many times she said "DOG GONE IT", but it was very annoying. She thinks she is joe six pack. Not! Her cute little winks st the camera sickening. This was not a beauty pagent where you could flirt with the judges. McCain is in trouble.

Posted by: mecooncat | October 2, 2008 11:22 PM | Report abuse

I watched Biden lie like a dog and that dog don't hunt.

Posted by: omarkhyam1951 | October 2, 2008 11:22 PM | Report abuse

"I watched Biden lie like a dog and that dog don't hunt."

I saw Palin lying too. What's your point?

Posted by: XanderB | October 2, 2008 11:24 PM | Report abuse

From:
Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/10/shorter-debate.html

Thursday, October 02, 2008
Shorter Debate

Part I: Palin did not answer questions directly.

Part II: Biden incredibly strong--pointed out Palin "I heard no plan" on Iraq, very strong on economic and FP issues.

Veep issue devastating against Palin--actually claimed broader powers for VP, clearly without knowing actual constitutional powers. Biden powerful on Cheney--dials way up.

And then...The turning point. The Biden tears. After that, Biden was most clear, passionate and strong, and from there, Palin was gibberish.

Biden win.


Update:

CNN:

National poll of Debate Watchers:

Who won:

Biden: 51%

Palin: 36%

From:
Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/10/shorter-debate.html

Posted by: robthewsoncamb | October 2, 2008 11:24 PM | Report abuse

Reading these silly posts, it confirms my long standing belief that is must be painful to be a Dumbocrat. You all just can't stand the fact Palin held her own and did great. On the other hand, Biden made 10 factually incorrect statements - TEN. Palin made 0.

Posted by: ShawnRS | October 2, 2008 11:24 PM | Report abuse

Biden seemed to invent more "facts" than Palin, according to what I've been researching. Anyone care to prove me wrong if I list them out (as others are working on , no doubt.)

Posted by: mriede | October 2, 2008 11:24 PM | Report abuse

I was put off by Sarah Palin's poor diction. Gunna, gonna,--that is not the kind of language one uses when conversing in this kind of an arena. And if I hear Eye-rack once more, I will reguritate. One says "Ah-rock'." Otherwise, I believe that others have covered her lapses, and they are indeed revealing of her shortcomings for the position she desires.

Posted by: gemini32 | October 2, 2008 11:24 PM | Report abuse

She had no answer to Biden's portrayal of McCain's health care plan.

America isn't stupid. Or deaf, dumb and blind.

Posted by: pali2500 | October 2, 2008 11:05 PM
------
America had better not be deaf, dumb and blind. McCain had no health plan. Just a tax redistribution plan.

Posted by: deucebollards | October 2, 2008 11:24 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and one more point, Governor:

You know why vulnerability to kryptonite is Superman's "Achilles' heel?" Because to him, it's radioactive. Like uranium and plutonium are to us ordinary humans. And you know where uranium and plutonium can be found? NUCLEAR reactors and NUCLEAR weapons. That's pronounced "NEW-CLEE-ER," not "NU-CU-LAR."

The more you talk, the more I think of W...

Posted by: Paul_C | October 2, 2008 11:25 PM | Report abuse

This is what Palin said when she was asked about her position on the boundary of the vice president's power:
"Well, our founding fathers were very wise there in allowing through the Constitution much flexibility there in the office of the vice president. And we will do what is best for the American people in tapping into that position and ushering in an agenda that is supportive and cooperative with the president's agenda in that position. Yeah, so I do agree with him that we have a lot of flexibility in there, and we'll do what we have to do to administer very appropriately the plans that are needed for this nation. And it is my executive experience that is partly to be attributed to my pick as V.P. with McCain, not only as a governor, but earlier on as a mayor, as an oil and gas regulator, as a business owner. It is those years of experience on an executive level that will be put to good use in the White House also."
If anyone can make some sense out of this gibberish, please let me know.

Posted by: motherforobama | October 2, 2008 11:25 PM | Report abuse

This may have been the most pleasant debate to sit through of all time and was a credit to them both. They were both nice, genuinely civil. No peevishness. No low blows. No nastiness. Jousting on issues, sure. Biden was a gentleman (a little weird toward the end). Palin started out nervous but grew stronger and more confident. Given the low expectation, she hit it out of the park and is once again going to transform the presidential race -- at least for a few days.

Posted by: Gidgmom | October 2, 2008 11:25 PM | Report abuse

Stylistically, Sarah Palin's responses were like a beauty queen's. She brings new meaning to the cliche "political campaigns are beauty contests."

Posted by: smb11 | October 2, 2008 11:25 PM | Report abuse

I'm very happy to report that the liberal bashers are back at it because they realize they didn't do enough damage to Palin's psyche or talent.

When the lib bloggers began to ease off on commenting on Palin stories, I figured Palin was dead enough for them. Turns out Palin lives and looks no worse for the wear.

Of course she's coached. Of course she had notes. So did Biden.

She winked to her father. She smiles because she's happy.

It would KILL the Left to say, "You know what? We've been bashing and cyber-bullying and media-controlling and hammering for weeks, and she's still doing her Tina Fey imitation. We have to give her credit for being strong and probably indomitable."

So now they're back on the bash-wagon. Back to the "politics of change" for the wonderful Left, who will reach across the aisle in the spirit of Obama to congratulate Palin (sarcasm).

Posted by: gengar843 | October 2, 2008 11:26 PM | Report abuse

I thought Palin was right on target! She rocked tonight!

Posted by: ksulli21 | October 2, 2008 11:26 PM | Report abuse

She was just a Cheer Leader. That's it. Nothing more. Obama Biden 08!

Posted by: castermmt1 | October 2, 2008 11:26 PM | Report abuse

"On the other hand, Biden made 10 factually incorrect statements - TEN. Palin made 0."

First off, Palin made plenty of factual errors as well. But more to the point. It's hard to make a mistake when you're reading off a script. And yet she still gaffed twice as much as Biden. That is just scary.

Posted by: XanderB | October 2, 2008 11:26 PM | Report abuse

Manolete, I'm a feminist from way back. I admired Hillary very much. You insult her, and you insult women, when you can't just admit that Hillary lost. Read the Atlantic Monthly analysis. She was not "bullied" by Obama -- ever. Neither is the Democratic Party misogynistic. Can you honestly say anything -- aside from gender -- that makes Sarah Palin even in the ball park with Hillary? Hillary knows Obama offers the best plan for women. Sure, she's upset; her fans are disappointed. We've moved on, and we're not about to shoot ourselves in the foot for nothing more than some sort of bizarre notion of revenge. Turn your attention, positively, to Michelle Obama! It'll do you good.

Posted by: cturtle1 | October 2, 2008 11:26 PM | Report abuse

"Newkiller" Sarah went ballistic after "I-rack" and "I-Ran" while completely dissing Gewn Ifill. The dropped Gs and the winks and the incessant smiling drove me nuts. She is affable and charming, yes, we already get that. Compared to McCain's robotic sullenness, she seemed nice. But so much airheadery is hard to take. There were times when she seemed to not remember which page on her crib sheet her answer was supposed to be, and she fumbled. Her relief in the end was obvious (I can't wait to talk to the American people without the filter of the MSM, yada yada). A person I'd be friends with when I want Friday night hijinks. Not every day of the week. Her perkiness was honestly wearying to me.

Posted by: Pramster | October 2, 2008 11:26 PM | Report abuse

Master of the non-answer, of the glittering generality. A master-debater is Palin.
Andrew Halcor must be laughing at Biden. He called it to a tee. He debated Palin at least 20 times and he knew there was no defense except to ignore her.
She never answers a question. She tells folksy stories not relative to the point.
She attacks then hides behind feminimity.
She lies whenever it suits her and it suits her alot. She even stated that there would be no more press interviews.
In addition, Palin thought that Dick Cheney was acting constitutionally as vice president and if elected she would expand upon his power. Hopefully Palin ssid this
as a result of her ignorance of constitutional law.

One good thing about no more biased press conferences or interviews from the wicked leftist media is this - we won't have to listen to bullwinkle the ignoramus anymore.

Posted by: schmuckduck | October 2, 2008 11:27 PM | Report abuse

Eugene: I'm equally lost. Ms. Palin reminds me of the character "Chauncy Gardener" in the 1979 hit "Being There," a movie about a moron who lives his entire life on the estate of a wealthy old man who dies, and, through a series of unlikely events, is thrust into the public eye, becoming a media star to whom people look for answers about anything and everything. Ms. Palin is no better equipped for the job than Chauncey Gardener. I wonder who is missing a few links: Ms. Palin or the public who just can't seem to get enough of her?

Posted by: wayne8 | October 2, 2008 11:27 PM | Report abuse

Its been posted before on here, but her use of the word "Nuclear" the way Bush pronounces it, confirms to me that we are truly on our way to being "Dumbed Down.

Can't she and Bush take an extra second and pronounce it correctly? Is this our future? Speaking like we all work at Wal Mart? Plus, whats with her dropping her G's? Like Moose Huntin' or polar bear killin' or shootn' at wolves from airplanes?

Posted by: adobeman | October 2, 2008 11:27 PM | Report abuse

BTW, I thought Biden looked pretty good. I would vote for Biden... but never Obama.

Posted by: gengar843 | October 2, 2008 11:27 PM | Report abuse

If Palin represents the future of the GOP, then the GOP has no future.

Posted by: protagoras | October 2, 2008 11:27 PM | Report abuse

If I hear one more time she's an expert on energy, I think I'm going to be sick. All she knows is oil=$, and "the sound bite all of the above." I am not very please that both sides want to move towards nuclear energy. Not so much for safety reasons, but because that I think that is moving backwards and not forwards. Sarah did alot better than in her interview with Kathy, but it is obvious that she has been coached in everything that she says.

Posted by: DrWho2 | October 2, 2008 11:28 PM | Report abuse

Biden has been trying to make it to make it to the White House for a long time .... He is now riding on the the coat tails of someone who he thinks will get him there. It would be so cool to see a " little woman from Alaska" spoil his plans.

Posted by: mythought02 | October 2, 2008 11:29 PM | Report abuse

"She winked to her father. She smiles because she's happy."

She was winking to the camera. So unless her Father was the one operating it, I kind of doubt that this is true.

As for admitting, yes. I will admit freely that Palin did much better than I thought. She didn't make any major screw ups...minus the fact that she blatantly said that she wasn't going to answer the questions presented by Biden or the moderator...oh and she thinks that the VP should have even MORE power and, of course, isn't a part of the Executive branch. I'm sorry, but beyond her ability to read off a piece of paper, she has no substance. She has no depth. She's the shiny things that advertisers use to draw in the masses to buy into their product without having a sound product.

Posted by: XanderB | October 2, 2008 11:29 PM | Report abuse

Hmmm...from this side of the antipodes there seems to be a fair amount of Misogyny going on in the heads of some of our commentators.
First of course it was Hillary who was portrayed as Elizabeth Bathory. Now it seems Palin is the target.

Let's see show me one decision Joe Biden has made independently from the rest of his senate colleagues. That's an interesting thing about the senate isn't it ...you don't actually make any decisions of any real nature you just follow party lines.

Now here's Palin who has actually 'governed' made independent decisions and has at times not followed party line.

Joe Biden hasn't yet show he can make any decision on any matter...

Posted by: Blackheart1 | October 2, 2008 11:29 PM | Report abuse

I had an uncle - a tobacco farmer - who told me once about John Warner coming down to the tobacco market and trying to be a regular guy. I can't help but think about that when I see Sarah Palin. The working people of America aren't the idiots she thinks they are.

Posted by: varednek | October 2, 2008 11:29 PM | Report abuse

Manolete
As far as I know, Mrs. Palin will not be resident in the White House unless Senator McCain dies in office. It's Mrs. McCain who would be the lady in the white House.

Note: Mrs. Palin has also seemed to be laboring under the delusion that she would be occupying the White House in the event of a McCain win. Wrong.

Posted by: wallace2 | October 2, 2008 11:29 PM | Report abuse

This is exactly what is and has been wrong with the Republican Party in the last 8 years: they can not acknowledge how their policies undermined our economy and nearly destroyed our image abroad. And Palin's words tonight shed no light. The FACTS DO MATTER! Having a Republican president (backed up by a PTA president) leaves a wide-open plain for Republican policy to continue the damage they began, and having the middle class to pay for it.
The observer

Posted by: varticol | October 2, 2008 11:30 PM | Report abuse

It should be a job requirement for any national office to be able to properly pronounce the word "nuclear".

Posted by: tamanysmith | October 2, 2008 11:31 PM | Report abuse

OK, Xander, I'll give you credit for a back-handed compliment. But as the woman you love to hate would say, or I paraphrase, or actually I use her words to make a completely different point...

If you're gonna give a compliment, let it stand. You followed it with more insults.

Posted by: gengar843 | October 2, 2008 11:31 PM | Report abuse

Facts Eugene??

Biden:

Article I of the Constitution regarding the Executive?? Wrong!!

Obama did say he would meet with tyrants? Wrong!

Over an over again fact check will tear Biden a new you know what after this mediocre performance.

Posted by: jjcrocket | October 2, 2008 11:32 PM | Report abuse

"It should be a job requirement for any national office to be able to properly pronounce the word "nuclear".

Amen. Also, being able to pronounce the names of the countries you're speaking about might help too.

Posted by: XanderB | October 2, 2008 11:32 PM | Report abuse

ughh, the moose hunter winked her way into the toilet. she's a nauseating dunce. she came out w/ lots of canned platitudes, answered nothing that was asked of her, and proved that the nation's falling opinion of the nitwit is going to keep falling. what a joke she is.

Posted by: memorybabe1 | October 2, 2008 11:32 PM | Report abuse

The bar was set so low that Palin walked over it. That was all she needed to do, thus she won in terms of at least beating the expectations of her screwing up basic subject-verb-object word order.

This was obviously a picnic in the park for Biden, so no real win for him. It would be considered unfair competition if it weren't for the fact that someone so inexperienced on the national stage like Palin actually agreed to run as VP. It would've been nice to see her actually challenge Biden on his level.

Posted by: rubytoes | October 2, 2008 11:32 PM | Report abuse

I couldn't even watch the whole debate it was so strange. Biden was boring but factual and Palin kept talking about whatever but did not answer a lot of the questions. She was trying hard to win people over with her folksy sayings and it just came across as a little silly. To think this woman wants more power than Cheney should frighten anyone.

Posted by: rlj1 | October 2, 2008 11:32 PM | Report abuse

Some points: I've heard Obama say "nucular."

Also, the "pipeline" Palin was discussing I BELIEVE is the natural gas pipeline she's building. I could be wrong.

Also, I hunt wolves from my Hummer, so get over it.

Posted by: gengar843 | October 2, 2008 11:33 PM | Report abuse

I get it. Palin's a mother. I wouldn't want my mother running the country. Just because you might understand diplomacy with a teenager doesn't mean you understand "cultural tolerance" or gee golly gosh - maybe countries in the Middle East don't want democracy as a form of government.

P.S. Palin there are other reasons why they 'hate us over there'. You might want to check out some textbooks on politics of the Muslim world.

I am a woman, but I'm not going to support someone just because of her genetic makeup - or the fact that they wear makeup. The facts matter, the issues that they stand for matter and their intelligence and judgment matters.

I give her credit for desperately trying to hang on to the cliff she's on, but come on give us some facts. This "we have a couple Main Streets in Alaska, and I grew up on one too" talk is getting us nowhere. And enough with the damned word maverick. NOTHING was said by her tonight that was specific, it was a baffling demonstration of rhetorical diversion. It appeared that it was intended to be air time for her to give robot-rehearsed campaign speeches. How... is this acceptable? Shouldn't we demand more of our leaders? I thought a debate was about the specifics, beating someone with facts. I have the greatest respect for Joe Biden keeping his cool, I just hope the majority of Americans realize that all this "home town talk" that Palin gave was one of the best demonstrations of empty political rhetoric ever performed on an American stage.

How low have we set the bar?


Posted by: thefactsmatter | October 2, 2008 11:34 PM | Report abuse

"OK, Xander, I'll give you credit for a back-handed compliment. But as the woman you love to hate would say, or I paraphrase, or actually I use her words to make a completely different point...

If you're gonna give a compliment, let it stand. You followed it with more insults."

I love how you go back to the "sexist" thing. Just because I think that Palin (yes, she's a woman, sue me) is unfit to run this country in a time of crisis, does not make me sexist. If I had said "she's too stupid because she's a woman", then yes. But I didn't. Notice how I kept it civil. Why? Because, unlike people such as yourself who use sexism as a shield against the truth, I actually care about other people NOT based on their gender.

Posted by: XanderB | October 2, 2008 11:34 PM | Report abuse

People, people:

If ANY of you had been subjected to what Palin has been through: media-bashing, over-management, suppression of herself, and thrown into a national VP debate, where the moderator was possibly biased (she wasn't -surprise!), on a college campus where you KNOW the kids are mainly for Obama, against one of the best debaters in Washington..

you would wet your pants.

She kicked ass.

The bar may have been set low, but I watched it from a different perspective, that it was set high. I think she did fine.

Posted by: gengar843 | October 2, 2008 11:36 PM | Report abuse

I wish people would stop with the "liberal media" bs. What about Rush Limbaugh, fox news, Robert Murdock, O'Reily and on and on. What, these people aren't part of the media??? Please shut up already!!!

Posted by: DrWho2 | October 2, 2008 11:36 PM | Report abuse

Blog comment Joke of the Day... Manolete at 10.57 - "Mc Cain at least respects women enough to take them seriously." -

So as a ex Hillary supporter you think that NMc Cain selecting Palin shows he takes women seriously - is she a puppet or a poppet....I suspect your not even a Hillary supporter and probably not even a women..Ask Mc Cains first wife does he respect women - ask all the other more experinced and probably better VP candidates from the Republican parties like Condi wether this selection respects women... ask any women with a brain.. Mc Cain and Bush use women - use the working class - target fear and paranoia and low IQ clowns like you to stay in power....Palin might be a nice for Alaska but the startgey was to get so called Hillary supporters to blindly follow any ovary about - it is a insult to women this tactic and if you dont get it go vote for Mc Cain and see what happens to the USA and women and their families going forward...you get what you deserve.. like the economy collapsing - KARMA on the USA..But I ssupect your just another entrenched lackey - or poppet anyway - your children if you have any will hate you for delivering the leadership of this country to them as it will destory their future...

Posted by: colinemery | October 2, 2008 11:37 PM | Report abuse

We're poised to go over 11 trillion in debt. When we find ourselves in a financial hole, we just dig deeper and heap more and more debt (plus arrows and bikes) onto the backs of our children. And yet what seems to consume the baby boomers is trying prove who is the smartest violinist on the Titanic. If the donkeys or the elephants cared one wit for this country, the debates would focus on the document they have sworn to defend and protect, not the frailties of their opponents since when you compare the bottom line on any issue, these two selfish groups are very similar. One if by land, two if by sea. Eugene, try writing one of your hateful, uninspired, drivel-filled perda de tempo, using the Constitution as your guide.

Posted by: EliPeyton | October 2, 2008 11:38 PM | Report abuse

Palin was unbelievable tonight. Very effective. She proved the pundits and the press wrong.

Posted by: ohioan | October 2, 2008 11:38 PM | Report abuse

Xander, you're paranoid, or oversensitive, or something.

When I said "the woman you love to hate" I didn't mean you were sexist, only that you hate Palin.

So, no sexism implied by you, only that you can't give a compliment without second-guessing yourself, and thereafter attacking the "enemy."

Posted by: gengar843 | October 2, 2008 11:38 PM | Report abuse

Palin many times did not answer Ifill's posed questions or rebut what Bided had said. She just skipped merrily off into Sarah Land where she talked about what she wanted to talk about or wandered helplessly around some of the questions she decided to answer. She somehow thinks the Constitution gives more power to the Veep that what is laid out. Frightening that she wnats even more power than Cheney. I thought Biden did very well -- he was respectful to her, calling her governor and did not behave condesceningly toward her. Joe had full command of facts and figures. Palin may look good in red, may be very pretty, may be very "folksy" and may be a good governor for Alaska. I just don't want her anywheres near the WH in any capacity. She is not ready for the job she seeks and she certainly is not ready to be president if something happens to McCain.

Posted by: creatia52 | October 2, 2008 11:39 PM | Report abuse

Hey Adobeman,
I agree with you about Palin. But what was the Comment about Wal-Mart workers for? I worked for Wal-Mart and I have an IQ of 168. We are not all dumb because we work there.

Posted by: mecooncat | October 2, 2008 11:39 PM | Report abuse

When Palin was talking about Obama not wanting to drill for oil in protected areas, Biden should've hit back with the oil companies having leases to 68 million acres of land to drill on for years and did nothing. Bush just wanted to gain access to those protected areas before he left office. He even lied when he told us it would lower gas prices. Oil is down 50 bucks a barrel and gas prices have barely moved.

Posted by: HemiHead66 | October 2, 2008 11:40 PM | Report abuse

EliPeyton: Of course. I'm in the boat for Ron Paul, Elizabeth Dole, Foxx, Garrett, Shuler, and anyone else who voted against the bill.

McCain disappointed me by voting for this monstrosity. I hope he has some kind of plan to tell us why, or at least name the names, like he said.

Posted by: gengar843 | October 2, 2008 11:41 PM | Report abuse

Am I the only one watching that sees Sarah Palin and thinks about the failed TV series "Commander in Chief"?

It failed on TV and is failing in real life.

Posted by: haymarketbill | October 2, 2008 11:42 PM | Report abuse

HemiHead: WHERE are oil prices down to $50 a barrel. My spot price is $94 or thereabouts.

Posted by: gengar843 | October 2, 2008 11:42 PM | Report abuse

Hmmm, did we watch the same debate? Yahoo users of over 51,000 so far say Palin won the debate.
I agree, Palin won hands down.

Posted by: wly34 | October 2, 2008 11:42 PM | Report abuse

Palin's embrace of Cheney's view of an expansion of the Vice Presidency should be setting off alarm bells everywhere. PALIN IS CHENEY WITH LIPSTICK. this all by itself should sink the Republican ticket.

Posted by: medogsbstfrnd | October 2, 2008 11:42 PM | Report abuse

"

Xander, you're paranoid, or oversensitive, or something.

When I said "the woman you love to hate" I didn't mean you were sexist, only that you hate Palin.

So, no sexism implied by you, only that you can't give a compliment without second-guessing yourself, and thereafter attacking the "enemy.""

I misread what you had said, and I apologize. I thought it said women, not woman. My fault.

As for enemy, I was independent up until the point where McCain picked Palin...well to be more precise, it was her acceptance speech. To me it screamed publicity stunt...or political stunt. Either way, I don't see McCain taking Palin seriously at all, simply a means to an end. What further pushed me to the Obama side of the fence was the fact that Obama actually has plans that he has given for us to analyze. As far as McCain, I have heard nothing. I have read nothing. All I hear is them pandering to the people by saying what they want to hear. But I digress. I don't hate Sarah Palin as a person, not at all. I respect what she's done for her state as well as her family. But at the same time, I just can't support someone who is so blatantly underprepared to take the helm of the POTUS should something happen to McCain. It scares me to think about what kind of future my son would have in a McCain/Palin government.

Posted by: XanderB | October 2, 2008 11:43 PM | Report abuse

You die hard Democrats (I used to be one) need to open your eyes. Even you Eugene with your Obama luving self-she done good. I would have smacked Obama more she had PLENTY of ammunition. She held her own and even had old Biden on the defensive. I believe that he truly underestimated her. It was fun to watch. If in her postion I would have challenged Obamas record and experience more. He can point out problems but he cant bring solutions. Plus he needs to stop acting like he is americas daddy. Im the same age and Im a lawyer. Obama offends me more than impresses me...as Chris Rock says...and Im black. McCain may get my vote after tonight.

Posted by: sonia38 | October 2, 2008 11:43 PM | Report abuse

If I ran for office, it would be for "Commander in Cheese." But that's just me.

Posted by: gengar843 | October 2, 2008 11:43 PM | Report abuse

Just think for one minute,What if Obama is a leader of a sleeper cell?????????
Crazier thing have happened!!!

Posted by: wwstealer | October 2, 2008 11:43 PM | Report abuse

Sarah Palin is probably more "normal" than anyone who is posting here. Senator Biden and Governor Palin both deserve applause for conducting the debate in a civil manner.

Pity the same can't be said for most of those posting here.

The Senator is clearly the master of detail, as he should be after nearly three decades in the Senate.

Sarah Palin connects with the average American because she is an average American. She is middle class. She grew up in very humble circumstances and has lived so until the last couple years. She manages to stay average but also happens to be a Governor and now vice presidential nominee.

Whatever happens on election day, this has been an extraordinary presidential race. And tonight's debate was an extraordinarily pleasant political discussion to behold.

And Palin won it.

Posted by: Gidgmom | October 2, 2008 11:44 PM | Report abuse

SHE WAS READING (!) ALL HER ANSWERS!!!

WHO WOULD WRITE UP HER CHEAT SHEET IF SHE WAS IN OFFICE?!!!

Posted by: julieds | October 2, 2008 11:44 PM | Report abuse

it was Biden who said Bosniacs, not Biden.

Posted by: greenlantern | October 2, 2008 11:44 PM | Report abuse

We started realizing that "maverick" is Palin's go-to rhetoric. Therefore, we turned the debate into a drinking game. Every time she said "maverick" we drank. I must admit it was a good time until Biden went on the "maverick" attack and spouted it out a ton in his 2 minutes. Needless to say the buzz really hit after that. Good debate, though....

Posted by: itsdavid | October 2, 2008 11:45 PM | Report abuse

"If I ran for office, it would be for "Commander in Cheese." But that's just me."

Mmmmm....cheese...

Posted by: XanderB | October 2, 2008 11:46 PM | Report abuse

I meant, not Palin.

Posted by: greenlantern | October 2, 2008 11:46 PM | Report abuse

"

it was Biden who said Bosniacs, not Biden.

Posted by: greenlantern | October 2, 2008 11:44 PM "

Gaffe! Gaffe! Alert the media!

:P

Posted by: XanderB | October 2, 2008 11:47 PM | Report abuse

Though Palin exceeded any expectation I might've had, I was struck by the image of a parrot that was taught to speak, but that had a limited vocabulary and so repeated the same darn things over and over, even when it was related to the question/issue. Republicans are no doubt thrilled with her performance, she didn't implode. The rest of the country should be very afraid of the prospect of this yokel at or near the helm navigating thru the storm in which this nation finds itself.

Posted by: tydicea | October 2, 2008 11:47 PM | Report abuse

Will someone please
remind Sarah Palin that it's NUCLEAR not NUCULAR. OOps. More of the same Bushisms.

Posted by: order1 | October 2, 2008 11:47 PM | Report abuse

Win or lose this election, any fair-minded person would have to acknowledge that Gov. Sarah Palin has a bright future in American politics. Incredibe as it may seem, Sarah Palin has rocketed herself from obscurity to world-wide name recognition, even faster than Sen. Barack Obama. Governor Palin has given all women-especially young girls- the idea that women can really have the same chance as men at being selected for the highest positions in the U.S. Governor Palin's success only underscores the shabby way Sen Hillary Clinton was treated by the media in this election season.

Posted by: ldoug361 | October 2, 2008 11:48 PM | Report abuse

please can we just put the baby in bed, did he really need to be there, it was 11pm?

Posted by: itslikeajunglesometimes | October 2, 2008 11:48 PM | Report abuse

Xander: You make sense! Hallelujah! Seriously.

But, OK, I see why you like Obama. I actually have seen some of McCain's ideas and I believe in them. There are also some conservative platforms I think he'd be willing to support, such as ending capital gains taxes, a move which would put instant liquidity into stocks, bonds, real estate, etc (IMO).

Palin was, for me, icing, not the cake. Which is good, because she's sweeeeet. I don't look at her as the Prez. BUT.. if she was... I wouldn't worry. Hey, I rooted for the '69 Mets, the '69 Jets, the '86 Mets, and '00 Rams - "ya gotta believe."

Go, Brett Favre!

Posted by: gengar843 | October 2, 2008 11:48 PM | Report abuse

The stakes were very high for Palin tonight, and she executed. She hit the ball out of the park, and connected with America. That might've been the ballgame right there.

Posted by: allenylao | October 2, 2008 11:48 PM | Report abuse

Robinson you are the idiot .Even your liberal friends are admiting that Palin won.Your stupidity has no boundary.But the main point is - Obama is the muslim communist with communist agenda for this great country.Do we need the muslim communist in WH?

Posted by: pro36 | October 2, 2008 11:48 PM | Report abuse

Palin scares me too; her skewed views on everything from a woman's right to choose and gun control are archaic. McCain made a fatal mistake in choosing her for his running mate.

Posted by: USMCgirl | October 2, 2008 11:48 PM | Report abuse

WOW. Everyone of you are like, asleep. Sarah Palin is the real deal. It's easy to see. She WON this debate by a landslide. Oh, Mr. Robinson, and I suppose you could do any better? Because you are sooo savy right? (not). Your problem, like everyone else who submitted a comment here, is you are sooo out of touch with the "other" 95% of the population, the people who actually work for a living, make the country MOVE, and MAKE your life a luxury, these are the people who matter, and these are the people who will put Sarah Palin and John McCain in the Whitehouse. Sorry, Mr. Robinson, your dream, it's not yet, it's not for a very, very long time (if ever).

Posted by: carrexecutivesearch | October 2, 2008 11:49 PM | Report abuse

"Incredibe as it may seem, Sarah Palin has rocketed herself from obscurity to world-wide name recognition, even faster than Sen. Barack Obama."

Very true, but Obama did it through his career. Palin did it through McCain. Some similarities I will admit, but Palin just seems like the "next big thing" until the new "next big thing" shows up.

Posted by: XanderB | October 2, 2008 11:49 PM | Report abuse

Well, looks like that debate didn't move anybody.

Yahoo users poll results:
Joe Biden 49%
Sarah Palin 49%
Not sure/No opinion 2%

66771 votes

Posted by: wly34 | October 2, 2008 11:51 PM | Report abuse

Obama scares me greatly; his skewed views on everything from a woman's right to choose and gun control are idiotic. Obama also made a fatal mistake in choosing Bidenfor his running mate.

Posted by: pro36 | October 2, 2008 11:51 PM | Report abuse

"Palin was, for me, icing, not the cake. Which is good, because she's sweeeeet. I don't look at her as the Prez. BUT.. if she was... I wouldn't worry. Hey, I rooted for the '69 Mets, the '69 Jets, the '86 Mets, and '00 Rams - "ya gotta believe.""

It amazes me how many sport analogies are being used concerning this whole race. I have read more football and baseball comparisons to this than to the sports themselves lately :P

Posted by: XanderB | October 2, 2008 11:51 PM | Report abuse

As usual ROBINSON and the Obama groupies have already declared Biden a winner.

And tne polls run by the MSM will show that he won also.

She was refreshing.. and held her own.. she
can relate to main stream America, like no one in Congress and especially Obama.

You see she has one quality that OBAMA does not have... She is a LEADER AND SHE believes in her country. She can learn what she needs to be a good Vice-President.

The Democrat led Senate... does not waht her in their hair as VP.

The new TARP revised and passed by the Democrat led Senate...is so full of tax breaks and pork, that all who worked on it behind closed doors SHOULD BE REMOVED from committee chairs and voted out of the Senate.. BOTH Democrats and Republicans.

Obama is riding a we hate Bush attitude that may get him in the white house. BUt he will then be KING OBAMA.

Voting for OBAMA is voting for the total collapse of the UNITED STATES AS WE KNOW IT.

Beware the Wolf in Sheep's clothing.

Posted by: miller51550 | October 2, 2008 11:52 PM | Report abuse

Sometimes I think this is just a game to McCain and Palin. They know Obama will win, so are just biding time. They have nothing to lose but Palin does gain some practice in case she decides to come back to Washington at some future date.

Posted by: skolniks | October 2, 2008 11:52 PM | Report abuse

"Well, looks like that debate didn't move anybody."

Absolutely not. Biden confirmed to the democratic supporters that he cares about the middle class, and confirmed to the republican supporters that he's a "35 year washington insider".

Palin confirmed to the democratic supporters that she's "unfit to lead, can't speak for herself". She confirmed to republican supporters that "she's the maverick that completes the ticket, and she's for the middle class because she is middle class".

Because of this, the only possible outcome that would make a difference with these debates is the undecided voters. They hold the sway in all of this.

Posted by: XanderB | October 2, 2008 11:54 PM | Report abuse

These moronic Republicans are really BLIND! WOW!!! You can be conservative all your life, but to say you're going to vote Republican all your life even YOUR CURRENT PRESIDENT who happens to be a REPUBLICAN by the way, is destroying America, you would still vote for McSame&Failin! WOW!!! A moron, no matter how you teach them time and time and again, would never get it. You saw that a Sarah's win??? Incredible! She has ABSOLUTELY no substance! You should always take every election differently - loyalty won't get you anywhere. It's like allowing your kid to do something bad but since he's a family you would tolerate that. Your PARTY ruined America and you still have the guts to say 4more years of the same???? Like you and Hannity, you guys are MORON!

Posted by: mav_702 | October 2, 2008 11:54 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, Xander, it's a real horse race :-P

Posted by: gengar843 | October 2, 2008 11:54 PM | Report abuse

miller5150 - come now - admit it - you really are out there in the woods with canned goods and your rifle, right?

Posted by: skolniks | October 2, 2008 11:55 PM | Report abuse

Enjoy your kool-aid Obama/Biden supporters, Biden was wrong (yes flat out wrong)about a dozen times.

Palin did better than I thought she would, I expect that the race will tighten up after tonight's debate. I'm voting against Obama/Biden more than I'm voting for McCain/Palin but I think there was a real risk of McCain's Campaign imploding if Palin had a bad debate, she did not.

Posted by: KeythL | October 2, 2008 11:55 PM | Report abuse

skolniks, LOL. Apparently you haven't read anything about Texas and the South.

BTW Texas has 34 electoral votes. Well on the way.

Posted by: wly34 | October 2, 2008 11:56 PM | Report abuse

If you want to harp on experience, how much national and world experience does Palin have? Zip! Her whole state has less of a population than most of our larger cities. She says she has run a business. Big deal. So have I. And I don't qualify to be VP either. I've raised kids. Still not qualified. Hunted moose, deer, elk,bear and on and on. Still not qualified. So whats her point? OH! It must be shes' been a soccer mom. Thats it.

Posted by: mecooncat | October 2, 2008 11:56 PM | Report abuse

I'm a political Independent and as such, not anchored to either political party. It's clear as clear can be, though, that Sarah Palin is a type of person I've known since Junior High School -- a Mean Princess.

The main impression she left in this debate was phoniness. Deep, ingrained, automatic phoniness. The kind that fixes you with a stare and a fake smile and then proceeds to lie to your face and twist everything she possibly can against you.

It's a very effective social tactic, since it masks aggression until it's too late to protect against it, but it kind of shocks me that so many women in this country have been duped by it. The only thing people like this are motivated by is self-service. They are not prepared to think or act on behalf of any group other than their own in-group.

The ordinary Republican voter, and a good many of the Democratic ones, got duped eight years ago by George W. Bush, and they are apparently in the process of being duped by their candidates again this year.

Hard to believe that this is what has become of the party of Lincoln.

Posted by: jinx550 | October 2, 2008 11:57 PM | Report abuse

"Yeah, Xander, it's a real horse race :-P"

:trumpet: Wah Wahhhhhh

Posted by: XanderB | October 2, 2008 11:57 PM | Report abuse

Biden made me cry when he choked up about his family. In that moment I connected with him on a personal level and that is the strongest moment I will take from that debate.

Posted by: JayKay2 | October 2, 2008 11:58 PM | Report abuse

Robinson you are the idiot. Even your liberal friends are admiting that Palin won.Your stupidity has no boundary.But the main point is - Obama is the muslim communist with communist agenda for this great country.Do we need the muslim communist in WH?

Posted by: pro36
...........

One who is so certain his/her candidate "won" tonight's debate wouldn't need to call Robinson names then further to spew such hateful lies about Obama.

So, whassup, "pro36"? You don't sound very happy tonight.

Posted by: binkynh | October 2, 2008 11:58 PM | Report abuse

Robinson-why wouldn't you tell us that Obama broke the law when he bought that house in Chicago together with criminal REZKO?Even about some of his friends-REZKO,REV RIGHT,TERRORISTS,SCUMBAG AXELROD and so on

Posted by: pro36 | October 2, 2008 11:58 PM | Report abuse

Cute, nutty, and even a bit insane always wins over staid, solid, and boring.

Remember 2000? How about 2004?

And Palin even has the added punch of actually believing what she is saying... Biden's been in DC so long and spouted so much stuff he didn't believe in, even when he believes what he is saying he can't make it credible.

Palin won over middle America tonight, while Biden merely preached to the Obamaniac choir... those who didn't fall asleep, that is.

Posted by: xbjllb | October 2, 2008 11:59 PM | Report abuse

Eugene,

Sarah Palin had a Tina Fey moment and its an outrage how republicans make so many excuses for this women. It is so scary to even think of the though of Sarah Palin being a heartbeat away from the President.

Sarah is allowed to disrespect the moderator and Joe Biden and get away with it with sarcastic comments.

I think Sarah failed in this debate she had no talking points and she showed no substance.

Joe Biden did an outstanding job by linking Mccain to Bush and he nailed all the talking points.

Sarah is just a puppet with lipstick and high heels she is NOT READY to be so close to President.

Posted by: judycaesar | October 2, 2008 11:59 PM | Report abuse

"Robinson-why wouldn't you tell us that Obama broke the law when he bought that house in Chicago together with criminal REZKO?Even about some of his friends-REZKO,REV RIGHT,TERRORISTS,SCUMBAG AXELROD and so on"

Pro36, why don't you show me the evidence that proves all of your GOP-fed slander? Because as I've noticed, everything you've just spoke about has been debunked several times, and yet you keep spouting it. Figure that one out.

Posted by: XanderB | October 3, 2008 12:00 AM | Report abuse

I can't believe that anyone is taken in by Palin's "memorized" sound bites. She can't always answer the question asked because she has certain "memorized sound bites" that she had to fit in one way or another. Why are Americans so obsessed with this "folksy" stuff.... it drives me mad. Folksy is fine when it is who someone is... it is not fine when it is used as a political scheme. Wake up folks.

Posted by: kmccollum | October 3, 2008 12:00 AM | Report abuse

Robinson you are the idiot. Even your liberal friends are admiting that Palin won.Your stupidity has no boundary.But the main point is - Obama is the muslim communist with communist agenda for this great country.Do we need the muslim communist in WH?

Posted by: pro36
...........

One who is so certain his/her candidate "won" tonight's debate wouldn't need to call Robinson names then further to spew such hateful lies about Obama.

So, whassup, "pro36"? You don't sound very happy tonight.


Posted by: binkynh | October 2, 2008 11:58 PM

--------------------------------------

Nah..I just hate scumbags liberals thats all

Posted by: pro36 | October 3, 2008 12:00 AM | Report abuse

Palin seemed to have prepared a set of answers to a set of anticipated questions. When a question was not quite what she expected, she tried to mold one of her prepared talking points to fit the question--which explains why she had evasive answers to some questions.

The real question now is: Does the McCain campaign feel confident enough to make her available to the press? Or do they fear another "Katie Couric/Charlie Gibson" moment?

Posted by: we-the-people | October 3, 2008 12:01 AM | Report abuse

As the Republican strategist Mike Murphey said: a "Nothingburger"

Posted by: Phrank1 | October 3, 2008 12:02 AM | Report abuse

Biden is well know in the senate as the "blowhard" of the senate, even by his supporters.
He had to leave the presidential race before because of the charges of plagiarism in both his college papers and his presidential speeches.

Posted by: wly34 | October 3, 2008 12:03 AM | Report abuse

Manolete,
I can agree with you about the treatment of Hillary Clinton and about the grief and anger I felt during and after the primaries. But I disagree with you about McCain's selection of Palin being in support of women as equals.

Hillary did not need a man to validate her. She earned her votes and the respect and admiration of us and all of the people who gave us such grief. She put herself out there and proved herself to be more than qualified in temperament, judgement, world view, and government and how it works, as well as she had specific, published platform in her Solutions For America. No one can take her qualifications and her respect away from her because no one gave it to her.

Sarah Palin is not the standard bearer for "a Woman in the White House who is not a spouse". She is being used and exploited by the men in the Republican Party to get their man elected because he could not get elected without her. The Republican women are so enthralled with having been elevated in their party by someone who does not threaten their intelligence and their own achievements. To expect anyone in the country who is a critical thinker to believe this woman capable of governing this nation in any capacity is an insult to all women who have at least informed themselves on current and foreign affairs and the policies of well known Senators who are running for President.

She did not embarrass herself too much tonight and I am happy for that. But her answers were not self informed, were lacking in substance, were rote campaign rhetoric, were distortions of facts, and were so folksy wolksy that I found myself thinking, ok, Sarah, enough, stop, please.

The media is "filtering her out" now, just as they did in her 2 or 3 interviews. No one is putting the words in her mouth when she can answer either in the interviews or the debate except herself, and, maybe the campaign staff, but, certainly not the media and the press.

She is what she is: a woman in the right place at the right time and exploited for a man's success. She will continue to be used in that manner "should they be so privileged to win this election" and when McCain passes on in office, some shadowy someone(s) will be calling the shots most of the time except when Sarah wants to flex her authority as she has as governor of Alaska with abuse of power and vindictiveness and poor judgement. On all the issues she is wrong and ill informed, including energy issues and, certainly, the issue of the Constitution's law about Executive Power as it relates to the roll and boundaries of the Vice President.

I hope when she returns to Alaska in November that she will be received with the same endorsement as when she left, though I understand her "popularity" ratings have slipped from 80% to 60%.

Posted by: nana4 | October 3, 2008 12:03 AM | Report abuse

Everyone is talking about Palin, who did not implode, and jumped over the low bar, gosh darn it! Good for her by golly!

Biden had gravitas, facts, focus, and was able to connect - and frame the issues to the audience in ways they think about them themselves.

I was more interested in how he would do, and thought he had a very tricky job ahead of him.

They both did better than I expected, but Biden really impressed me they way he handled the audience -and Palin. He did not talk down to Palin, he did not talk down to America.

But he showed his full stature, his graciousness and congruence was confidence building compared to Palin's "aw shucks" personna and coached, rambling quasi-answers.

In Palin's defense, I can't help wonder what seeing her in a debate would be like if she did have experience and a grasp of things. She is charming, and personable, if only there was depth.

As for the race - not even close to a game changer. Obama continues his slow gains.

Posted by: plaza04433 | October 3, 2008 12:03 AM | Report abuse

"Robinson-why wouldn't you tell us that Obama broke the law when he bought that house in Chicago together with criminal REZKO?Even about some of his friends-REZKO,REV RIGHT,TERRORISTS,SCUMBAG AXELROD and so on"

Pro36, why don't you show me the evidence that proves all of your GOP-fed slander? Because as I've noticed, everything you've just spoke about has been debunked several times, and yet you keep spouting it. Figure that one out.
Posted by: XanderB | October 3, 2008 12:00 AM

--------------------------------------
Its never been debunked.Dont lie!!!!!Figure that one out.

Posted by: pro36 | October 3, 2008 12:03 AM | Report abuse

"First of all, the real loser tonight is Tina Fey, because her routine will no longer bite since Palin at least held her own."

HA! Tina just expanded her Palin repetiore:
MAVERICK MAVERICK NUKULER MAVERICK NUKULER MAVERICK NUKULER NUKULER NUKULER
MAVERICK MAVERICKMAVEICKMAVERICK

Posted by: Fightingback | October 3, 2008 12:03 AM | Report abuse

"Its never been debunked.Dont lie!!!!!Figure that one out.

Posted by: pro36 | October 3, 2008 12:03 AM "

Your response proves that you are just another GOP lapdog with a bad case of the Parrot complex.

Posted by: XanderB | October 3, 2008 12:05 AM | Report abuse

This was a clear victory for Biden. Palin did much better than expected and I wonder if creating low expectations was just the way to make her look better than she is. Palin still has the problem that she is not McCain... she is not a real conservative (witness the several temptations she had to line up closer to the democrats than to defend the republican line. She ended up saving herself and making herself a potential republican candidate for the next election. If that should happen, people smarter than me should keep very close tabs on her and study what the ultraconservatives will do to "spoil" her totally. Will she become more herself or will she be molded in the female version of Reagan? The republicans appear not to have a real plan or a very good idea about this election and about running the country. They stole the idea of change and now are not able to make a case for change especially since McCain has not been able to handle very well the last two weeks and the economic crisis. Biden was totally prepared and patient and courteous and kind. A fabulous job that will become a lesson for anyone who ever wants to debate with dignity and polish.

Posted by: translator001 | October 3, 2008 12:05 AM | Report abuse

If you think Palin won then you must believe that humans rode dinosaurs and the earth was formed 10,000 years ago. She's the worst. She believes in witches. And what the hell kind of leadership experience do you get as governor of Alaska? Nothing interesting or important ever happens over there. Who's the governor of North Dakota? I don't know or care because it's NOT IMPORTANT. Same goes for Alaska. And McCain is an old windbag. It's hard to even look at him with his hunchback and his old wrinkled face.

Posted by: rattfink111 | October 3, 2008 12:06 AM | Report abuse

I know debate expectations for Sarah Palin were low, like "2000 Leagues Below the Sea" low, but I expect a little more substance from the person who is running to be one 72 year old heart beat away from the presidency.
Palin offered zero policy differences from the Bush administration. Her reasoning for this, apparently, was that the past is not important.
Palin did not display the ability draw upon her own experience or apply knowledge in her responses. She merely came across as a robot who spouted trained "stock" replies. She simply recited Republican talking points and right wing catch phrases that any Fox News employee could regurgitate on command.
In fact, the only win for the McCain/Palin ticket tonight was having a debate moderator who did not push for specific answers to her questions.
I cannot count the number of times Palin gave a response that had absolutely nothing to do with the question. Sometimes she
even gave an answer that was the opposite of what was asked. For example, when asked to list her "Achilles heel," instead of describing just one single weakness, Palin gave a memorized list of her "strengths." Reminds me of 2004 when Bush said he could not think of any mistake he ever made as president!
On a personal level, I was turned off by her shrill tone and twisted attacks at Joe Biden. And her transparent attempts at folksiness came across as down right corny. Is this how she would answer the 3am call? "Say it ain't so, Iran has nuclear weapons, well doggone it, don't those folks over there know that I'm a maverick who isn't afraid to give ya some straight talk?"
In short, Sarah Palin failed the "is she ready" test tonight. I find it impossible to imagine her in the White House.

Posted by: jgarrisn | October 3, 2008 12:06 AM | Report abuse

Quote: "Hillary did not need a man to validate her. She earned her votes and the respect and admiration of us and all of the people who gave us such grief..."

Oh no, back to her. I thought that the Clintons were gone and forgotten.
She earned respect?? Apparently you don't know her as we do, down here. Apparently a proven habitual liar doesn't bother you at all.

Posted by: wly34 | October 3, 2008 12:07 AM | Report abuse

"Nah..I just hate scumbags liberals thats all"


Caring about your fellow man makes you a scumbag?

Gee, I thought it was being a greedy, lying, cheating, self-absorbed hypocrite...

...oh wait, that's a conservative...

Posted by: AgnosticEngineer | October 3, 2008 12:09 AM | Report abuse

With almost 75,000 votes. Results from the Yahoo users poll:

Who do you think won the debate?

Joe Biden 49%
Sarah Palin 49%
Not sure/No opinion 2%

74990 votes

Posted by: wly34 | October 3, 2008 12:09 AM | Report abuse

"Its never been debunked.Dont lie!!!!!Figure that one out.

Posted by: pro36 | October 3, 2008 12:03 AM "

Your response proves that you are just another GOP lapdog with a bad case of the Parrot complex.

Posted by: XanderB | October 3, 2008 12:05 AM

--------------------------------------
Well XanderB..Your response proves that you are just another liberal puppy with a bad case of the schizophrenia.

Posted by: pro36 | October 3, 2008 12:10 AM | Report abuse

Sarah Jailin' is one of the scariest politicians out there.

Her record:

-"Thanks but no thanks to that bridge to nowhere"?! Give me a break. She ONLY said thanks. That's a proven FACT, and yet she still LIES about it in her stump speeches.

-She still used over $20 MILLION dollars of US Taxpayer money from the bridge to nowhere funds to build the ROAD to nowhere which would have connected to the bridge that wasn't built!

-Wants to ban books from libraries?!?! If she had her way, we'd probably all be forced to read her witch-doctor pastor's sermons on teleprompters every day.

-Just the fact that she even HAS a witch-hunting, witch doctor as a pastor is disturbing!!!

-Believes people and DINOSAURS lived on the Earth together a mere 5,000 years ago?!?! And I thought Bushy boy was the ultimate science-hater.

NO MORE UNEDUCATED, STUPID, SCIENCE-HATING, WACKO'S IN THE WHITE HOUSE!!!!

Obama/Biden '08!!

Posted by: BARACKtheVOTE1 | October 3, 2008 12:10 AM | Report abuse

"Well XanderB..Your response proves that you are just another liberal puppy with a bad case of the schizophrenia."

Thanks for giving me a good laugh. That made absolutely NO sense. :P

Posted by: XanderB | October 3, 2008 12:11 AM | Report abuse

FINAL VERDICT: Biden could easily take over running the country tomorrow. He is focused, knowledgeable, experienced, and sincere. Palin is cuter and sharper (more quick witted) than I expected, but my worst fears were confirmed... She is way out of her league!


Serious times demand serious leadership. Palin has no solutions, only well-rehearsed slogans, which she repeats AD NAUSEUM with a smile and a wink. Adorable, perhaps, but not qualified to be President! We've already spent 8 years with an underachieving "Joe Six Pack." This year, I'm voting for the smart guys!

Posted by: shoemiaw | October 3, 2008 12:11 AM | Report abuse

Palin's refusal to answer questions mirrors the type of administration she has run in Alaska which is one of secrecy, arrogance, and vindictiveness. Tonight she showed not only that she can learn and regurgitate canned answers but that she is also incredibly power hungry with the statement that the vp should constitutionally be granted more power over the legislative branch. Her sugary winking portrayal of her and her family as "middle-class" in touch with "hockey moms and joe six-pack" is ludicrous when you realize that her family owns 3 homes and had a six figure income before she ever became governor. Evidently she figures that working class men are all drunks (joe six-pack) that can be won over by winking and trying to look cute. God help us all if this power hungry war mongering woman ever has access to nuclear launch codes. Send her back to Alaska where she can't do the rest of us any harm.

Posted by: truthhurts01 | October 3, 2008 12:13 AM | Report abuse

The debate was more than strange. Biden played it brilliantly--he did not attack her once, his focus was Bush-McCain, and the mission was successful.

Sarah Palin (run-on sentences) was hard to follow and refused to answer questions. She stuck to talking points-to her credit, she has good memory.

Gwen Ifill was excellent because if should would have had follow-ups, Palin would have fallen flat, and the blame would be on the moderator.

Posted by: Swing-Voter | October 3, 2008 12:13 AM | Report abuse

Being a greedy, lying, cheating, self-absorbed hypocrite...-this is all about liberals.Well there is much more but it would take whole night to describe the liberal scumbags

Posted by: pro36 | October 3, 2008 12:15 AM | Report abuse

Folks, being president (leader) is not a popularity contest. It is about knowing the issues and problems we face and leading the country into a better future. If someone won't or can't convey what they plan is other than drill baby drill and not let Iran get Nukes, and just give out hollow sound bites, than this person is not leadership material.

Posted by: DrWho2 | October 3, 2008 12:16 AM | Report abuse

LOL@ keeping the Enterprise out of the wormhole.

I quite often interview applicants for jobs. If the interviewee doesn't answer the question he/she has been asked, I make a note of that and he/she is not hired.

These are JOB interviews. How can anyone possibly consider hiring Sarah Palin for the Vice President (possibly President) job?

Are the Bitter Hillaryers so determined to get a woman into office that they will support ANY woman? Or are they simply as appalled as were the suffragettes that a black man would be "chosen" before a white woman to hold the highest office.

She did not know the name of the current commander in Iraq. She said that main street was having a detrimental effect on wall street (huh?). She said that she wanted to answer her own questions, not the moderator's.

Dangerously, though, after all these years of that vile, evil Cheney, she would ask for MORE power as VP. I am not just disgusted. I am scared to death.

Posted by: eclecticelder | October 3, 2008 12:16 AM | Report abuse

"Cute, nutty, and even a bit insane always wins over staid, solid, and boring."


For class president, maybe. For POTUS... not again. NOT EVER AGAIN. Our futures are effected by these people...

Posted by: AgnosticEngineer | October 3, 2008 12:19 AM | Report abuse

Folks, being president (leader) is not a popularity contest and Im talking about Obama. It is about knowing the issues and problems we face and leading the country into a better future-and Obama has no clue. If someone won't or can't convey what they plan is other than no more Bush and not let McCain in WH, and just give out hollow sound bites, than this person is not leadership material.NOOBAMA

Posted by: pro36 | October 3, 2008 12:20 AM | Report abuse

An irate MelGurney3 whines "After hearing her say "nucular" about a dozen times, all I could thing was PLEASE, WE CAN'T TAKE ANY MORE YEARS OF THAT!!!!!"

Hey, MelGurney3, when you get Barack Obama to stop talking about the states of Illinoice and Massitoosits, perhaps then you will be able to get Sarah Palin to stop talking about nucular weapons.

Posted by: TheQuickBrownFox | October 3, 2008 12:22 AM | Report abuse

Not quite. First of all, the real loser tonight is Tina Fey, because her routine will no longer bite since Palin at least held her own.

Posted by: dyinglikeflies1 | October 2, 2008 11:03 PM
******************

Are you kidding? Tina's up writing right now and I can't wait 'til Saturday! There was horrifyingly funny stuff here. Palin was the worst cloying weathercaster I've seen in the smallest town I've ever traveled to. You can see in her--but more mechanically--exactly what neo-con handlers have been doing since Reagan: someone who can read cue cards and memorize blather. Neither Reagan or Bush II is good extemporaneously; but at least Reagan and wit and Bush a disarming bonhomie.

Palin is the raw material without even the modest talent of the other two automatons.

America: reject the puppet charade.


Posted by: abqcleve | October 3, 2008 12:23 AM | Report abuse

It seems to me like Palin was throwing in a lot of buzz words and buzz lines that people want to hear but she wasn't really answering the questions. I'm glad Biden called her out on one of the questions when he said, "with all due respect, I didn't hear a plan," then he went on and addressed Gwen's question and talked about the Obama/Biden policy plan. You have to give it to her for doing okay and not having another Moose in headlights moment, but her lines did seem quite rehearsed, not genuine at all, and again, seemed to frequently avoid the essence of the questions.

Posted by: kat14 | October 3, 2008 12:24 AM | Report abuse

I noticed during the debate that Palin's 'folksie' speaking style is not her natural voice style and is a kind of patronizing cutesy voice. That was interesting. My origin is true folksiness and I wonder if others will reject Palin's patronizing, affected, false folksiness. I suspect members of the media won't have heard that distinction since they are typically urban.

Posted by: CaptainTC | October 3, 2008 12:24 AM | Report abuse

It seems that the McCain backers can't even come up with original posts, eh pro36.

Posted by: DrWho2 | October 3, 2008 12:25 AM | Report abuse

TheQuickBrownFox did you hear how they talk on south side of Chicago?Thats how Obama was talking just recently.

Posted by: pro36 | October 3, 2008 12:25 AM | Report abuse

Some would argue she won the debate simply because she didn't have any Couric moments, but listen to what she was saying. She offers nothing new from George Bush's failed policies. Although she attempted to distance herself and John McCain from W, she could not provide any substantial examples of how. Her message, with all winking and shout outs to 3rd graders aside, was very clear: more of the same.

Posted by: ghuntcustom | October 3, 2008 12:26 AM | Report abuse

DrWho2 I dont care.take a hike

Posted by: pro36 | October 3, 2008 12:27 AM | Report abuse

The latest instant polling shows:

a) one-eighth to one-tenth of Americans watched the debate
b) the rest of the country was sleeping, watching the Cubs choke, watching USF and Pitt, watching Family Feud, watching Matlock, figuring out how to shoot wooden arrows from a moving bicycle while reading the senate bailout extortion bill.

Posted by: EliPeyton | October 3, 2008 12:27 AM | Report abuse

So Sarah Palin wants to get the Senate to expand her powers as vice president? Well, at least she says she wants the Senate to do it by some kind of constitutional process, which is an improvement on Cheney's illegal power grabs in the dark.

But if she had one iota of knowledge of American history, she'd see that this is a non-starter. The U.S. Senate is the world's most conservative collective body when it comes to defending its institutional prerogatives and the procedural status quo. It's been that way from the very beginning. The first vice president--a guy Sarah might have heard of, John Adams by name--came into office with the bright idea that since the Constitution made him the Senate's presiding officer, maybe he should be entitled to join in the debates and otherwise take part in the Senate's work. (That was around the time VP Adams was making such other helpful suggestions as getting the president officially addressed as "His High Mightiness.") They told him to bug out, and so Adams spent the next eight years muzzled and utterly miserable--sheerest torture for one of the most opinionated and talkative men ever in American politics.

And that's the way it's been ever since.

The danger, which so many other people here have pointed out, is that unofficially the Cheney gang would take over Sarah and keep her as the falseface for the continuation of Big Dick's behind-the-scenes manipulations. And God help us if President McCain got called to celesial glory and left us saddled with President Palin.

If McCain is beaten in 2008, guess who has already started her run for the White House in 2012. (Hint: Not Hillary.) We can look forward to the bruising primary battle between Palin, Romney, Huckabee, and Gingrich.

Posted by: jm917 | October 3, 2008 12:28 AM | Report abuse

I did not watch any of the Democratic debates except when only Barack and Hillary were involved. I was not a supporter of Joe Biden. However, I think he had a better overall performance in his debate than Barack Obama, John McCain or Sarah Palin. Joe clearly showed he has a strong understanding of the most important domestic and foreign policy issues. His answers seemed to reflect his years of experience and judgment, not stating lines, as Sarah, apparently largely coming as scripted from tutors to be given, almost regardless of the question. He effectively countered all of Palin's criticisms of Barack.

The moderator did far better, especially in asking numerous specific questions, than her predecessor in the first presidential debate.

Posted by: Aprogressiveindependent | October 3, 2008 12:28 AM | Report abuse

I heard Karl Rove dispute Biden's claim that Palin had instituted a windfall profits tax on Oil in AK. Watching Palin's reaction earlier, as Biden praised her willingness to do that, I had the distinct impression she didn't know what he meant by the term even though she'd just described it. She didn't even seem aware that her action in AK directly countered McCain's policy and supported Obama's.

Oh dear.....


Posted by: abqcleve | October 3, 2008 12:30 AM | Report abuse

Hey is Joe Biden - the Joe Six pack Palin and co refer to - I think it may well be after that - maybe thats why she was winking all the time - she's got the hots for Joe...

Posted by: colinemery | October 3, 2008 12:30 AM | Report abuse

Dont matter any liberal BS.Biden lost so does Obama

Posted by: pro36 | October 3, 2008 12:31 AM | Report abuse

It is somewhat obvious that you can no longer hide your obvious bias against Palin. She did exactly what real Americans wanted to see. Sorry, you were disappointed but who really cares? Try being objective for once and I am very sure that most might spend a minute or two reading the DEM talking points you post over here....

Posted by: rasbog | October 3, 2008 12:31 AM | Report abuse

Palin wanting broader powers for VP, That’s a real Scary thought for America.

Plain and simple Biden is the winner.

OBAMA-BIDEN 08

Posted by: norcomspe | October 3, 2008 12:32 AM | Report abuse

I like others had not paid that much attention to Biden, tonight he convinced me.

In checking my email I noticed a very nice appeal from Palin, she some how managed to write a nice long email not using nuclear or Maveric, in fact I thought wow with a brain like this how is it she can not seem to speak well? Oh ya duh she didn't write it, she did not rush from the debate to her laptop to write me a generic email
some one else wrote it.


Posted by: grandma4 | October 3, 2008 12:34 AM | Report abuse

Palin, didn't answer one question, instead she spouted her platforms and nothing else. Interesting. She is a good parrot. I wonder...can I buy a parrot as adorable as Palin? She can lull me to sleep with the chants of Drill baby drill.

Posted by: Penseur | October 3, 2008 12:34 AM | Report abuse

Any power for Obama.That’s a real Scary thought for America.

Plain and simple Palin is the winner.

Posted by: pro36 | October 3, 2008 12:34 AM | Report abuse

Well now, this is a shocker --- a writer for the Washington Post who does not approve of Sarah Palin's performance in the VP debate. Seriously, the mainstream media are so invested in defeat of the McCain-Palin ticket, it's hard to imagine them remaining in business if Obama loses the election!

Posted by: bubba31138 | October 3, 2008 12:35 AM | Report abuse

grandma4 your liberal made up story makes no sense.you are comical

Posted by: pro36 | October 3, 2008 12:38 AM | Report abuse

With CNN/MSNBC/REUTERS/AP/CBS all in the tank for Obama, I am very surprised they would resort to race to explain why he still can't stretch McCain, in the polls. With all the economic mess going on, the media still have to lie in order to get votes away from McCain to obama.

Posted by: rasbog | October 3, 2008 12:38 AM | Report abuse

OK, lets get down to brass tacks! Joe Biden answered the questions to which he was posed concisely and with insight. He did this because he is EXPERIENCED (does that make him an "insider"---YES: he's been there for 6 TERMS.....insider is not necessarily "bad"). Palin, judged on her performance in other venues this week and tonight's debate, was at best....rehearsed. She is uninformed, inexperienced, and (seemingly) delightfully ignorant. I don't want a leader that I can sit down and have a beer with (eg: Duubbya--the dumbest, most impotent president since herber hoover (can you say depression?--cause we're in one). A few other quick points I'd love the republicans to think about:

1 Don't wish for a president who is of "normal" intelligence like you--HOPE FOR SOMEONE WHO IS MUCH, MUCH SMARTER THAN YOU AND I--THEY'RE DOING THE HARDEST JOB IN THE WORLD---HAS 8 YEARS OF AVERAGE INTELLIGENCE IN A PRESIDENT TAUGHT YOU NOTHING. Sarah Palin is an uninformed CLIMBER....McCain IS 72 years old---DO WE WANT HER IN THE WHITE HOUSE?

2. REPUBLICANS: PLEASE STOP REFERRING TO THE "LIBERAL MEDIA" EVERY TIME YOU HEAR A STORY THAT YOU FIND UNAPPEALING. Not all media outfits are run by Rupert Murdoch--OPEN YOUR EYES: FOX NEWS IS NOT FAIR AND BALANCED. Yes, many have a slant that occasionally slides left or right, but the republican party is not the opressed underdog that it always makes itself out to be. And the American People are less swayed by propaganda than they used to be.

3.GOD IS NOT A REPUBLICAN: IF I WERE A MEMBER OF THE RIGHT WING RELIGIOUS COMMUNITY IN THIS COUNTRY, I WOULD BE UP IN ARMS!!!! GEORGE BUSH AND KARL ROVE TOOK ADVANTAGE OF YOU--YOU WERE DUPED: WHAT HAPPENED TO FAITH BASED INITIATIVES, ETC?....NOTHING: HIS FAITH AND IT'S CONNECTION TO HIS RIGHT WING SUPPORTERS.....EVAPORATED AS SOON AS HE WAS ELECTED TO A SECOND TERM !!!!

FINALLY: AS A COUNTRY: GET YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ASSES: IT'S NOT ABOUT ABORTION, ITS NOT ABOUT ADAM MARRYING STEVE OR FLAG BURNING. IT'S NOT ABOUT WHETHER SARAH PALIN IS HOT, OR A PIT BULL, OR JUST PLAIN OLD FOLKS--- WE HAD THE LUXURY OF DEBATING THOSE NICETIES WHEN WE WERE RICH! WE'RE IN A DEPRESSION NOW (despite what dubbya says)AND FRANKLY, I DON'T THINK EITHER SIDE IS PERFECT, BUT DAMNIT--DON'T YOU THINK WE SHOULD HAVE INFORMED, EXPERIENCED, ***INTELLIGENT*** ADULTS IN OFFICE RATHER THAN A PRESIDENT WITH ONE FOOT IN THE GRAVE AND A BACKUP WHO, WHILE FOLKSY AND QUALIFIED TO HEAD UP THE PTA, IS BLISSFULLY UNINFORMED.

THIS ONE IS REALLY, REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT--IF WE VOTE IN ANOTHER REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION, WE DESERVE WHATEVER FATE BEFALLS US.

Posted by: newcap1 | October 3, 2008 12:39 AM | Report abuse

Fascinating day. McCain runs out of Michigan like a Missile is chasing him. Next, Palin shows her talent, only problem is I can't figure out what it is. Way to go Biden. No one would be scared of him becoming President in an emergency.

Posted by: gatorsn09 | October 3, 2008 12:39 AM | Report abuse

Joseph Biden did a great job in this debate and showed incredible knowledge and intelligence.

Though Palin didn''t flub up like she did in earlier interviews, she kept ignoring the questions that were asked and instead kept talking about energy since obviously this was the one thing that she''s familiar with. She tried to come off as real folksy and down to earth but if you look at where she and McCain stand on all the issues you''ll see that they''re not for the average middle class American but rather are for the large oil and gas companies and the very wealthy who''ve all gotten richer during the past 8 years unlike the rest of middle class America.

Please everyone read up on ALL the issue and where the candidates stand on them. I''ve done that and from what I''ve found, the Democrats are the Party that actually cares about the middle class.

Posted by: scout_march16 | October 3, 2008 12:41 AM | Report abuse

Im not going to be surprise if McCain wins Michigan without running a campaign there

Posted by: pro36 | October 3, 2008 12:43 AM | Report abuse

I have to agree that this was one bizarre debate: the format is set for a reason and Gov. Palin's insistance on not answering the questions was disrespectful to the American public.

On the other hand, both candidates had hilarious gaffes: Biden's "Bosniacs" was my personal favorite. The difference between the candidates - and indeed the campaigns - is that tomorrow Gov. Palin' errors will be spun in her favor, ie. that she is a Washington outsider (spun in her favor) and that she just joined the campaign (again spun in her favor). On the other hand, I can imagine Sen. Biden standing up, laughing, and saying "that was completely retarded of me." I guess it boils down to honesty and what you want to believe.

I fundamentally disagree with Gov. Palin on many issues (creationism, abortion, women's rights, economic factors, energy, global warming, etc.) so I would not have voted for her anyway. But I think the depths of her contempt for the American public as well as her clear lack of education makes me read in awe the extent to which Republicans go to defend her as a viable VP candidate - boggles the mind. I mean did anyone else notice that during the "suspension" of his campaign that McCain had Lieberman, not Palin with him? Is she going to be excused every time the grown-ups need to talk about adult topics?

Posted by: wa3ronds | October 3, 2008 12:45 AM | Report abuse

Mr. Robinson I think you are right about the Palin disconnect from the debate. She did not debate, she appeared from 20 years on a mountain slope in Thermia and tried to bull her way through the questions. The movie wasn't Star Trac, it was Galaxy Quest. My wife was infuriated by the patronizing tone of Palin, I was trying to follow anything she said. Sorry to say Tina Fay seems smarter any day. A new and less improved George Bush.

Posted by: sanluisobispo | October 3, 2008 12:45 AM | Report abuse

Biden hit is out the park. GOod Job. Sarah Palin was clearly afraid of saying something stupid, so she stuck to her talking points and when stumped, she smiled a little wider, ignored the question and stuck to her talking points.

Posted by: charice33 | October 3, 2008 12:48 AM | Report abuse

As I was watching the debate, I couldn't help buy think that Gov Palin was doing a parody of Tina Fey.
I thought Gwen Ifill was a bit tame... never pressing either candidate with follow-ups.
Of course, that worked out well for Gov Palin, since that's when she seems to fall apart - - when she's asked to be specific.
Sen Biden did a great job walking that tightrope, as the GOP was foaming at the mouth, to call him sexist, condescending, or other such nonsense.
Gov Palin did as I expected... she lacked any specifics, and continued her propensity to lie, about Sen Obama's stances on issues.
All-in-all this wasn't really a debate, since only one candidate actually attempted to answer questions.

Posted by: burf | October 3, 2008 12:48 AM | Report abuse

pro36 For your sake I hope your wish comes true and you get your four more years of the same. Be prepared for all the wars, because with McCane-Paline that's what you are going to get. Good Luck!!!!

Posted by: norcomspe | October 3, 2008 12:49 AM | Report abuse

Ya she's a real sweetie. I like the gal cause she wants to cut taxes, seeing that we don't have a state tax out here in Texas, the less tax they can get out of my hard earned money the better. And who cares about the middle-class, darn-it, when my granddaddy hit the big ole elephant out in midland, it was because of his doggone hard work - why should we share it with anyone else. And why should we pay for healthcare for other people, let them get their darn healthcare on their own and then we give em' a $5,000 credit. My buddies that own insurance companies will like that. Look it, If you work hard and you get Rich, darn it, why should you have to pay more taxes on it. What I'm saying is that we should let the free market decide that, you remember Adam Smith, all these days they been talking about John Maynard Keynes. And another thing, if we end this war in Iraq, how do think me and my friends are going to get a return on our "investment," we gotta keep sending the bill to somebody - we got to profit from this ole' War. You see, I as long as them poor folks believe that us Republicans really care about them, and they buy it - lock, stock and, barrel - then we can get our puppets elected - then we control that, and make more money, that's the bottom-line, then come four years later - them suckers will believe that we care about them - we talk all this - how we want to reduce Government blah blah, and the bible-belt, the rest of em', all those poor suckers, the truth is we don't really care about America, we just want more power and money. So we wanna screw America, and have our cutie-pie Palin run the coontray- drill baby drill, yeeehawwwww Hey come to think of it, who needs the dam middle-class anyway, it should be Rich and Poor, I 'm Rich and you are poor, Vote for our puppets and we will make this a real oligarchy (sorry for using them big words - ya see, I gotta be in touch with the common folk, even if I wasn't hahahahahah) Vote for Mccain/Palin - keep me and my friends in power, and as rich as can be, see you in Dubai - my buddies
got me retired out there - ya see they is happy we keep the oil price high, what suckers America is.

Posted by: TexasBBQ | October 3, 2008 12:49 AM | Report abuse

I was looking forward to having a good chuckle while watching Sarah Palin in this evenings debate. At least that is what I expected, following Katie Couric's interviews. Unfortunately, I was almost left with a fearful feeling.

Not only did Palin hold her own in the debate(altho I'm not sure how one can state that she actually participated in a debate when she didnt address the question asked?), she put in enough verbiage, albeit not related to the question asked that to some, I'm sure she sounded very good.

How do you hold a debate covering, say 10 topic questions, when one person has only studied 3 topics and always goes back to those 3 topics when one of the 7 others are asked?

Gotta admit, she has improved. Only said "Joe 6-pack" once that I can remember. Now if she could add something to replace the "maverick" word I might even vote for her-----NOT!!

Posted by: gurnz123 | October 3, 2008 12:49 AM | Report abuse

Earth to Manolete

Come in Manolete

Please take off your tin foil hat and participate in reality Manolete

Reality calling Manolete, come in Manolete

Posted by: owlafaye | October 3, 2008 12:52 AM | Report abuse

Why do those here that say that Palin won sound so desperate?

Posted by: independent14 | October 3, 2008 12:53 AM | Report abuse

Eugene, I shall to agree with you 100%; in constrast, I would like to stay to say that I feel; the average American has allowed the decit of our prior government to engulf their feelings and options in politics.

This was definitely an odd debate; although I am an independent, if I was forced to make a decision I would definitely vote for Obama/Biden. Palin proved not only to herself but thee American people, that knowledge of the position that she is wanting to aquire, she has no knowledge of. The manerizisms she displaced throughout the depate and also while answering the questions, showed not only her true level of intelligence at the matter at hand, but also exhibited her personification of fackness.

In constrasting the two of them I feel Biden displayed a true understandment of the questions, soli on his responses. Palin insistinly dug herself in a hole through her responses, she continued this pattern especially in her "option" on the VP's position as VP.

The Constitution of this country is obviously something that has been lost. This has been shown, and has been further implimented through the Bush administration and especially in Palin's response to the VP title question.

All I can say is God Bless Us All

Posted by: mchlrz2222 | October 3, 2008 12:55 AM | Report abuse

I think the most telling point in the debate was when Palin, who many pundits see (or maybe saw) as the religious right's emergent champion, agreed with Biden that the Constitution guarantees equal status for gay couples as straight couples on issues like taxes, joint ownership, "family" rights, etc.!

Also, note Biden's agreement with her on the issue of gay marriage (he and Obama are opposed, he says). This reveals a significant shift in Republican policy (assuming Palin speaks for the party and her principal) and more tightly defines Obama's views. It has to have the religious right squirming! Say goodbye to that former election-swinging bloc (or at least send them some antacid!).

I have always believed that constitutionally there can be no distinction drawn between straight and gay couples as far as legal status regarding civil rights and property rights are concerned. Now - how about gays serving in the military? Maybe a bridge too far...

At least Palin proved she is empathetic and is (occasionally) not a parrot for the party. Will wonders never cease!

Posted by: mblace | October 3, 2008 12:56 AM | Report abuse

Well, most substantive praises and criticisms of both candidates have been covered by others already, so I'll just make a petty criticism of Palin: besides her irritating voice and affected folksy-ness, how many times does she have to say "ALSO"? It about drove me freaking crazy. I swear to god, I think she said it at the end of every other sentence. It reminded me of that teen beauty pageant contestant who blathered incoherently in her answer on the geographical ineptitude of the majority of Americans--her favorite catch phrase to return to was "such as." Please, somebody do a count of how many times Palin said "ALSO."

Posted by: tensity1 | October 3, 2008 12:58 AM | Report abuse

First, I don't think Palin lost the debate so much as I think that she didn't participate in it. She refused to answer the questions she was asked. If I'd been Gwen Ifill I'd have stopped right there and explained the terms of the debate.
Second, the moment she said that she would further expand the powers of the vice presidency, she showed how little she understood about the constitution of this country and how arrogant she is on extremely slender grounds. The woman is an immature, mean little princess! How could anyone take her seriously? She needs to be sent back to Alaska... to be impeached for her abuse of what power she does have.

Posted by: lassair | October 3, 2008 1:00 AM | Report abuse

I agree this was by far a very odd debate. Kicking off the night with "Can I call you Joe" by Palin - G'Golly I think you can. I just kinda expect her to offer more ovaltine or Fresh Nestle Tollhouse cookies. She did however do better than I expected. Biden had his share of gaff's too "Bosniacs" and She got the name of the General In Afghanistan incorrect and they both Kept pronouncing world leaders names incorrectly! Biden needs to lay off the political numbers "votes for this and that and get back to the issues He nailed it a few times which was good but OH SOO BORRING! I care to an extent how many times a person voted for this and that, but not in a debate. Tell me what you Stand for tell me why you are qualified. Palin sidestepped every question tonight. She kept reverting everything back to energy. The worst part of the night was when Biden was talking about the war in Iraq and the Crisis in Darfur and She responded but had no clue what he was talking about. I believe she said something like about the troops up until the primary and then about the war in Iraq and then went on about the energy policy and then said We shouldn't allow atrocities like that as a country --- She took that time to try and figure out what Biden was talking about because she had no clue she flopped around like a fish out of water! My opinion is she knows nothing about foreign policy, and it would do her some good to watch the Animaniacs read the countries of the world song on YOUTUBE! She had a few other things that were totally "leave it to beaver" moments. This debate was by far booring and I had to settle for my own entertainment of doing fun impressions or guessing what Tina Fey lines will come out of SNL this week. I have this debate recorded and I am gonna have to watch it again for more gaff's...

Posted by: thatguy42084 | October 3, 2008 1:04 AM | Report abuse

Im not going to be surprise if McCain wins Michigan without running a campaign there
Posted by: pro36 | October 3, 2008 12:43 AM
******************************
After Palin's performance tonight I'm going to be surprised if McCain wins any states outside of Texas and the deep south!


Posted by: lassair | October 3, 2008 1:06 AM | Report abuse

Biden had his facts, but was removed.
Palin had her slogans, but was real.

I think that much was obvious.

What's interesting to me the complex mixture of marketing, conviction, truth, and humanity.

We see what we what to see. We hear what we want to hear.

Posted by: Verdad | October 3, 2008 1:06 AM | Report abuse

lassair: your point that Gov. Palin did not so much as lose the debate but not participate in it was dead-on accurate. I was completely stunned by the whole "screw you and your rules" attitude - it was like a slap in the face. But I also firmly believe that a huge number of voters are going to see that as a strength - the whole idiotic "maverick" thing - rather than the insult that it was.

Posted by: wa3ronds | October 3, 2008 1:09 AM | Report abuse

If, by some far stretch, the Obama deluded and propaganda steeped people do in fact do elect him they are going to be a very shocked people!
Socialism as a form of government is not the utopia it seems. Ask anybody living in a socialist country.
A people who vote themselves into such a bizzare situation by helping themselves to the public coffers, soon become bankrupt and incapable of helping anybody including themselves.
Government control of everything is not what Americans will enjoy. I feel sorry for us as a military veteran and citizen
when I survey the attitudes of the Obama supporters. They have been lied to and caught up in vicious propaganda...
Promises of something for nothing, "A chicken in every pot and the good life."
Laughable and Sad!

Posted by: USDefender | October 3, 2008 1:14 AM | Report abuse

A Canadian colleague just called me and wondered how stupid Americans are if they can be duped by Palin's nonsense chatter. I hate him for saying that, but am afraid that I have to agree with him. For example, Palin said: "our founding fathers were very wise there in allowing through the Constitution much flexibility there in the office of the vice president." To the best of my knowledge our founding fathers strived for the SEPARATION of power, NOT OPPORTUNISTIC INCEST of power as religiously practiced by Cheney. Oh, well...

Posted by: TaoZen | October 3, 2008 1:15 AM | Report abuse

Palin, didn't answer one question, instead she spouted her platforms and nothing else. Interesting. She is a good parrot. I wonder...can I buy a parrot as adorable as Palin? She can lull me to sleep with the chants of Drill baby drill.
Posted by: Penseur | October 3, 2008 12:34 AM
*****************************
Personally, I think parrots are far more adorable than Sarah Palin could ever be, though they tend to be on the mean side, too.
There's nothing adorable about Palin. She's the worst type of female there is! She stabs you in the back while smiling. She lies while smiling. She's ambitious to the point of being dangerous to everyone around her should they think differently than she does. I don't see how ANY woman can support the likes of her! She's about average looking and ugly inside. Adorable? If pit vipers are adorable, maybe.

Posted by: lassair | October 3, 2008 1:15 AM | Report abuse

Can someone tell me why the wink? Does she know something the rest of us don't know?
I have to know....the "doggone its" just didn't sound like her. Did Grandma and Grandpa tell her to throw those in?
You know, my mind was made up months ago in this contest, before Rome starting burning (I mean, Washington DC). Just once, instead of bashing her opponent's ideas, I would surely love to hear something else fall out of their mouths besides tax breaks for the corporations. I am so sick of hearing about the so called corporate tax rate. What they don't say is how many of these corporations actually pay any tax at all....
Anyhow, she reminded me of the girl in high school that would talk to you over the summer, and then blow you off the minute she saw you in school if her "real friends" were around. Fake as a three dollar bill.

Posted by: SYWanda | October 3, 2008 1:17 AM | Report abuse

Palin looked as though she was coloring on one of those "numbered colors coloring books" the whole night, her responses seemed rehearsed for the most part except when she really opened her mouth and moved her lips. Her comment that she wasn't there to really answer the questions left me scratching my head...For those who have left comments detailing all this why a woman needs to be in the white house they are out of their mind The only person that should be there is a qualified person regardless of race gender or creed! Biden couldn't pronounce words on multiple occasions and Palin used words as if she had gotten them right in a spelling contest. Palin also undercut herself on the experience role by saying she had only been at this 5 weeks! When the camera panned to her as Biden was speaking I could have sworn she was doodling or playing tick-tack-toe!

Posted by: thatguy42084 | October 3, 2008 1:19 AM | Report abuse

I felt like I was watching an SNL skit - a serious VP candidate debating a Miss Alaska contestant.

She did one heck of a job playing to the camera and parroting the talking points - answering unasked questions, avoiding the asked. I'll give her credit, if I was looking for characters on the West Wing, heck yeah! But VP...get real.

Posted by: houston_progressive | October 3, 2008 1:23 AM | Report abuse

lassair: your point that Gov. Palin did not so much as lose the debate but not participate in it was dead-on accurate. I was completely stunned by the whole "screw you and your rules" attitude - it was like a slap in the face. But I also firmly believe that a huge number of voters are going to see that as a strength - the whole idiotic "maverick" thing - rather than the insult that it was.
Posted by: wa3ronds | October 3, 2008 1:09 AM
************************

That's possible, of course. It may happen that some voters think she showed strength by refusing to honor the moderator of the debate. However, I think that the Republicans are seriously underestimating the effects of the last eight years on all of us. We don't want more of the same, and Palin is showing that she is even worse than what we've had. I deon't believe her insult to Gwen Ifill was or will be missed by anyone outside of the Republican base. Also, we bloggers count. What we say has meaning, if what we say is thoughtful and true and not just a 'talking point.'

Posted by: lassair | October 3, 2008 1:24 AM | Report abuse

I have not been committed to either Presidentil candidate - until tonight's Vice Presidential debate.

It is now absolutely clear to me that I can not, and will not, vote for McCain/Palin.

There are many reasons - here are three:

(1) John McCain's stance on continuing the war;

(2) his age, and the posibility that he could suffer a major illness, stroke, or death during his Presidency, if elected; and,

(3) his choice of Sarah Palin as his running mate.

Putting all other issues aside - tonight's debate crystalized in my mind that Sarah Palin so weakens the McCain candidacy that I can not vote for him - because of her.

I remain preplexed at his decision in that regard - but at least tonight's debate cleared up - for me at least, that I will be voting for Obama/Biden.

I am hopeful that other Americans who saw and heard tonight from both Palin and Biden, comprehend fully the potential implications of having Sarah Palin as the Vice President of our Nation.

Sarah Palin has many fine qualities. She appears to be quite sensible, portrays herself as a hard working professional woman who has been able to keep a "family prespective", she is affable, generally articulate and well spoken, attractive, and certainly has shown fortitude to get to where she is today. She is also a mother, a wife, and no alarming reports have surfaced concerning her personal lifestyle and ethics, other than Trooper Gate, which I consider a political issue that is politically motivated.

She is also obviously a capable "learner" -as tonight's debate showed.

However, watching her and listening to her left me feeling "hollow" - about her. It was not just her words, it was also her demeanor, her rather calculated (canned) delivery, and what I preceived as her lack of sincerity about what she was saying.

It was clear to me that many, and I believe most, of her responses were either scripted for her during the "cram sessions" that she has no doubt been going through the last sveral weeks, or were drawn from the political persona she has developed over the past decade during her ascendency in Alaskan politics, or were simply "stuff" she wanted to say to promote the McCain/Palin ticket that lacked substance, and were not responsive to the issues being debated.

Unfortunately, what she has "learned" over the past several weeks, as well as what she has done and learned as a business owner, wife, mother, small town mayor, and even as Alaska's Governor - does not, in my judgment, translate into meaningful knowledge and executive capabilities, and certainly does not translate into the type of wisdom that I expect from, and look for in, the person who will serve as our Vice President - the second highest elected Executive position in out Nation.

In that regard, I would also note that there are only 100, not 101, Senators electd to serve in the United States Senate.

The Vice President is not a Senator.
The Vice President does not set the legislative agenda for the Senate.
The Vice President is not a member of the Legislative branch.
The Vice President has only two limited roles in the Senate - to vote in the event of a tie vote, and to serve as the President of the Senate, which is a ministrial, not a legislative, role.

I know those are mundane facts - but I really would have expected each Vice Presidential candidate to know them.

Joe Biden knew them - and he impressed me by even knowing the correct Article of the United States Constitution that deals with those roles of the Vice President.

The brief exchange on that issue was one of several instances during the debate when Biden showed that his experience in Washington has taught him far more about what he is about to undertake than Sarah Palin has ever even imagined - much less actually given serious thought to.

Biden also seemed more authentic and genuine than Palin did.

His responses were clear, succinct, and
insightful. I think he would be able to "hit the track running", and that his counsel an advice to President Obama would be more useful than the advice Palin could give to McCain.

I also think Biden would be a better representative to the World, and a better Executive liasion to other countries and leaders than would Palin.

I agree with the comments of another who said s/he sees Palin as a PTA President.

That is what I see too. She appears capable and energetic - just not for the Vice Presidency of the United States.

I expect more than she can deliver.

Frankly, I have felt that way about both tickets - until tonight, so I am thankful I watched the debate.

This is not a bash McCain/Palin endeavor or a promote Obama/Biden endeavor - simply my assessment of their talents and temperaments.

My conclusion is that there is a great void between where Sarah Palin is today - and where she needs to be in order to be qualified to serve as the Vice President, and possibly as the President, of this Nation.

Joe Biden is ready today.

May God bless this great Nation, and give wisdom and insights to our leaders.


Posted by: ddover | October 3, 2008 1:30 AM | Report abuse

By the way, I think Biden did a superb job tonight. He answered the questions he was asked in a very informed and intelligent manner. He was also gracious to Palin, who wouldn't know grace if it walked up and slapped her. I don't know how he managed it, but he did. Great control there, Senator Biden! It shows me that you ARE ready to be vice president, and President if needs be. Thank you for showing the people of this country what intelligent discourse really is when faced with such a daunting task. I salute you.

Posted by: lassair | October 3, 2008 1:31 AM | Report abuse

And what about the moment when Palin called out to that third grade class in Alaska that I believe her brother teaches? Have you ever seen anything like that before in a presidential or vice presidential debate? How utterly embarrassing! And there are people who think she won the debate?

Posted by: lassair | October 3, 2008 1:46 AM | Report abuse

It's easy to spew "facts" when you don't care whether or not those fact are accurate. For some reason, Biden is given the latitude to rattle off with an authoritarian voice misrepresentations of the truth as he did tonight and as he has done in the past, especially his comments about his helicopter being forced down in the mountains between Afghanistan and Pakistan. The truth is that the helicopter had to land because of a snow storm. His 30 plus years in Washington has given him plenty of time to practice "debating" with fervor but with total disregard for the accuracy of his facts.

Posted by: cpmurphey | October 3, 2008 1:55 AM | Report abuse

I thought it was a great debate! Many people (myself included) didn't expect her to be able to complete thoughts based on her performance in the recent interviews. BUT, she quickly showed me a different side of her. That's the way it should be.

I was intrigued that Biden pointed out that Palin never answered the question the first time she did so. Interesting tactic, especially since I found myself evaluating whether or not BOTH candidates fully addressed the questions from that point forward. It is difficult to deny that Palin failed this test more often than Biden did, although Biden DID talk around a few questions too.

I was surprised to hear Palin express the opinion that same-sex partners be allowed family-only hospital visitation. Based on his reaction, so was Joe Biden. I understood Palin's position to be against such visitation - the debate was the first time I've ever heard a change to this position. I also understood Biden's position to be in favor of this type of visitation.

I was also surprised that, when asked to identify a time she has regretted an earlier viewpoint, Palin responded by stating that she has never regretted her opinions. This is personally shocking to me. A change in opinion can occur as a result of new information, putting yourself in somebody else's shoes, a significant life event, etc. Palin's response to this question tells me that she is incapable of all of these. Regret helps us identify our mistakes. Therefore, her response also indicates that she either does not make mistakes or does not recognize that she makes mistakes. The first is obviously false. If Palin is indeed unable to recognize that she makes mistakes, then I'm terrified. Blind adherence to your personal opinions leaves you closed to other (and possibly better) ideas. Democracy needs an open exchange of ideas to survive.

I admit that I have never been a fan of McCain's pick of Sarah Palin. I am plain offended to hear her described as a feminist. Her ideals don't align with any version of feminism I know of.

Having said that, I took this debate as an opportunity to evaluate the candidates according to the same standard. Many pundits claimed that Sarah Palin would win the debate if she was merely coherent in speaking. Personally, I evaluate my candidates on the issues. To do that, I need specifics. Joe Biden gave me specific examples, both as support for himself and Obama and as criticisms of Palin and McCain. Palin offered me only specific examples to criticize Biden and Obama. She offered no specific examples to support her positive claims for the McCain/Palin ticket. Anyone can say something is the wrong solution. It takes a leader to formulate and communicate a plan.

Palin also criticized the Obama/Biden ticket for "looking back" instead of looking forward. As Biden indicated, looking back is an important part of ensuring we don't make the same mistakes. We can learn a lot from the past, such as "dropping nukes on a country is a pretty crummy thing to do."

All in all, I set the same bar for both candidates - convince me that your policies are beneficial. Biden did so quite well. Palin offered little material. She impressed me in comparison to her past performances, but not in comparison to her competition.

Posted by: damascuspride04 | October 3, 2008 1:59 AM | Report abuse

Eugene - you are correct - Palin played with the facts including saying that Alaska is a huge energy producer when it only produces 3.5% of U.S. energy. And saying Alaska under her leadership accounts for "much progress" towards U.S. energy independence when in fact Alaska's supply under her has gone down. Details of this and many other misstatements by her are here -

http://dailysource.org/special/palin/216#


Posted by: ds2oo8 | October 3, 2008 2:17 AM | Report abuse

To the conservative morons who think that Bosniak was a gaffe: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/bk.html

Quote: Bosniak 48%, Serb 37.1%, Croat 14.3%, other 0.6% (2000)
note: Bosniak has replaced Muslim as an ethnic term in part to avoid confusion with the religious term Muslim - an adherent of Islam

At least Palin supporters share an equivalent IQ with her. I roughly estimate her IQ to be 85-95, which would agree with the difficulty she had in obtaining a college degree in a very simple major; and her total lack of substance in her comments.

The sum total of her displayed ability is equal to sports newscaster + beauty pageant contestant, which is in fact exactly what she is,

In other words, she is completely over her head.

For those that are rightly scared of this total moron and her doddering partner, never fear. Even Faux News Polls via Rasmussen has Obama's electoral lead at a near landslide and nearly unbeatable level.

Even anti-voter shenanigans like in 2000 and 2004 won't save McSame. Keep plugging away and good things will come!

Posted by: admin7 | October 3, 2008 2:57 AM | Report abuse

Our standards for HRC were so high and worthy of debate. Our standards for Palin are so low it belittles us all. Poor Gwen.

We are caught up in dubious double standards, all of us(Karl Rove all over again?). The GOP can't stand Obama because he's "just" a new Senator and ex "Community Organizer" from Chicago -bald bigotry. I'm still waiting for someone to call Obama a "boy." But somehow Palin's status as "Hockey Mom" and a "Maverick" from "Outside Washington" is OK? Remember when McCain was asked if we were going to "beat that b**ch" in reference to HRC. Democrats and the media are treating Palin with kid gloves. Liberal media, right(wink wink).

The GOP is so desperate that it infuses anti-intellectual hype whenever any substantive review and critique of the Bush Administration is offered. Everyone is getting a pass - sad. Palin is an easy way to divide Democrats and to neutralize taking true account of the Bush Years.

Defeat is not standing up to a Republican party that divides our county, fixes districts and polling booth and always leaves "the people" behind.

Defeat in Iraq happened before the occupation even started - when Congress was presented with false information of WMD, goading them with fears and easy scapegoats, to vote Bush's way.

"The Untied States of America First" - Obama/Biden 08

Posted by: vmaldonado69 | October 3, 2008 3:01 AM | Report abuse

I believe Biden did an excellent job in humoring Palin, especially when she called the commanding general of Afghanistan 'McClellan.' He could have so easily picked up on that and ridiculed her.

Palin did sound like she had a script to stick to, and did sound like she danced around the issues. I felt her asserting that the Obama/Biden campaign too often brought up the past/negative, lacked substance. Why shouldn't they bring up the past?

Biden's comment, "past is prologue" was genius and completely apt. We can predict how people will behave based on their past behaviors.

Posted by: ceeveg | October 3, 2008 5:19 AM | Report abuse

Because there's been so little that the public has seen of Sarah Palin, every showing becomes an event where we are asked to make broad judgments of who Palin is.

Is Palin the confident and sassy politician reading from the teleprompter at the republican convention, or is she the confident and defiant politician reading from index cards at the debate, or is she the politician exuding a lack of confidence, depth and answers that appeared in the recent television interviews?

I think we need to see more of Sarah Palin to know for sure, and the Sunday morning news shows would be a good place to start. The fact that Palin has not appeared on these forums is perhaps just as telling as any of her recent showings.

Posted by: kaneblues | October 3, 2008 8:38 AM | Report abuse

Yahoo brower user's poll as of now:

Who do you think won the debate?

Joe Biden 48%
Sarah Palin 49%
Not sure/No opinion 3%

131956 votes

Are 49% of the yahoo users wrong? Don't think so.

Posted by: wly34 | October 3, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse


After all these years as senator, Biden thinks FDR was president in 1929, and Obama thinks there are 57 states.

And you bad mouth Palin??

What we have here is the evil of two lessers.
Vote Libertarian.

Posted by: wly34 | October 3, 2008 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Quote: "Its been posted before on here, but her use of the word "Nuclear" the way Bush pronounces it, confirms to me that we are truly on our way to being "Dumbed Down.

Can't she and Bush take an extra second and pronounce it correctly? Is this our future? Speaking like we all work at Wal Mart? Plus, whats with her dropping her G's? Like Moose Huntin' or polar bear killin' or shootn' at wolves from airplanes?"

Have you ever heard of the residents of states speaking with the dialogue of those states. It's called colloquialism.
"Some examples of informal colloquialisms can include words (such as "y'all" or "gonna" or "wanna"), phrases (such as "ain't nothin'", "dressed for bear" and "graveyard dead"), or sometimes even an entire aphorism ("There's more than one way to skin a cat")."
Lighten up and talk like the rest of America.
What part of yankeeland are you from?

And I think you owe an apology to the 1.2 million associates of Wal-Mart and the 100 million people who shop at Wal-Mart's 3400 American stores every week.

Posted by: wly34 | October 3, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

"Palin played with the facts including saying that Alaska is a huge energy producer when it only produces 3.5% of U.S. energy."

You are playing with the facts also. Alaska produces 14.3 % of the OIL produced in the USA.

Posted by: wly34 | October 3, 2008 9:45 AM | Report abuse

I am waiting to see this fact in coverage of last night's debate: Nobody has mentioned that Sarah Palin still doesn't know the difference between the Shiites and the Sunnis in Iraq. From the transcript, "We cannot afford to lose against al Qaeda and the Shia extremists who are still there..." [from the CNN transcript online]

In truth, the al Qaeda network led by Osama bin Laden is comprehensively Sunni and subscribes to a form of Sunni Islam known for not tolerating theological deviation. In fact, U.S. officials blame al Qaeda's former leader in Iraq, the late Abu Musab al Zarqawi, for the surge in sectarian violence between Sunnis and Shiites. I double checked this on Reuters just to make sure I wasn't making any error.

This ignorance is more telling than just a gotcha gaffe. (And Bosniak is a correct term, gotcha hunters.) I'm loathe to harp on the "one heartbeat away" theme, but this lapse among many only emphasizes the fact that she would be an absolute puppet to the scariest of neocons should she be forced by circumstance to serve as president (I shudder). She doesn't have the faintest idea what she is saying -- she is a complete impostor seeking higher office.

Posted by: msal | October 3, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

QUOTE: "

Yahoo brower user's poll as of now:

Who do you think won the debate?

Joe Biden 48%
Sarah Palin 49%
Not sure/No opinion 3%

131956 votes

Are 49% of the yahoo users wrong? Don't think so.
"

Yes, they are no different from AOL users. Also, it is not a scientific poll.

In other words, like Palin, it has no substance.Every real poll has a huge lead for Biden.

What is frightening is that McSame and Caribou Barbie could trick more than 10% of the population. That doesn't bode well for our future.

Posted by: admin7 | October 3, 2008 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Biden is the one who actually answered the questions. Full stop.

Posted by: thisworld | October 3, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Shame on the media for being super soft on poor little Palin. How can you win a debate when you don't answer the questions? How is it acceptable to use "betcha" and "comin" and throw "shout outs" during a Vice Presidential debate. Why wasn't this performance shredded by the self-titled pundits? I hope American can see through cheerleader routine. Even the South Carolina Miss America contestant didn't stoop to winking at the judges to win points.

Posted by: QuietFire | October 3, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

I was disappointed with the entire event. That wasn't a "debate"! Biden answered the questions honestly enough with policy statements, but Palin was just reciting campaign sound bites. Where was the contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of the propositions are advocated by the opposing speakers? I've seen more vicious debates in a 5th grade classroom over who's the best teenage mutant turtle! We should really expect more from our candidates. But the blame also lies with the moderator (who, quite frankly was way too soft). I don't know the reason for the poor moderation, but I will say that no moderator should allow themselves to be pressured into "being gentle" on any particular candidate, regardless of circumstances. This is a contest for the 2nd most important position in the country for Christ's sake!

Posted by: jg97986 | October 3, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Quote: "Yes, they are no different from AOL users. Also, it is not a scientific poll."

Hilarious, and you think that polling 1,000 people over the phone as most polls are done is a "scientific poll".

You think that the exit polls showing Kerry as the winner in the last presidential election is a "scientific poll"

LOL

Posted by: wly34 | October 3, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Quote: "As of 1 AM EST today, October 2nd, 2008, the Court has not ruled on the Motion for Dismissal in Berg v. Obama."

Any final ruling on this suit as yet? Is Obama not eligible to run as president?

Posted by: wly34 | October 3, 2008 3:20 PM | Report abuse

WHAT IS THE WASHINGTON POST'S OBSESSION WITH NEGRO COLUMNISTS, EVERY ONE OF WHOM IS A FLAMING INNER CITY RACIST? IS THIS SOME KIND OF CONSENT DECREE? JESUS!

Posted by: res08hao | October 2, 2008 11:02 PM

______________________________________________

res08hao, it's a free country don't read if you don't like. Stick to Fox.com

Posted by: jabreal00 | October 3, 2008 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Biden pops those facts out there just like a real pro - pro used car salesman, that is. Facts my fat fanny. He produced more incorrect information during that verrrrry long hour than I hear in my little town in a year's time. Puhleeeeeze. People. Heel! So many of you sound like you are totally terrified of her, well, maybe you are. Women jealous, men cowed. That's the way it is folks. Go, Governor Palin, Go!!! The people you are running for LOVE you - those who hate you aren't going to vote for you anyway.

Posted by: ladybug3 | October 3, 2008 10:41 PM | Report abuse

Over 60 years ago it was time to intergrate the sport that was considered America's past time, baseball. There were many black players that could have been choosen to be the first, but Branch Rickey somehow knew that he had to pick an exceptional - special person; not just a good ball player. Jackie Robinson was that special person with all the tools.
I didn't get to watch Thursday's debate until today, and now I have to spend my Saturday morning a bit apalled. How can anyone defend Sarah Palin as that exceptional person who will be the first. Women should be angry that a man made the pick of Palin and it is pretty obvious why she was choosen..... How could any Hilary supporter think that Palin even compares. Clinton is a serious politician who I felt comfortable having next to the button in the White House. Decisions made would be from a depth of history and knowledge.
All I can say is, "MACAIN!! do you really think I am that stupid?"

Posted by: emontan | October 4, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

The comment was made that Sarah isn't qualified to be VP. If I remember correctly, she is Governor of Alaska.
Jimmy Carter, Slick Willy Clinton, Ronald Regan were Governors and became Presidents.
Biden has been in Office quite a while, so he has access to information that Sarah hasn't. The thing that scares me is both Obama and he are LAWYERS. Lawyers have no business knowledge, except to litigate large sums of money from Insurance Companies and big industries.
You ever wonder why we hasve so many lawyers in Congress and Senate ? The reason is they couldn't make it on the outside.
This Financial Fiasco was the responsiblity of the Democrate Congress and Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac were developed by the government. The CEO's made 51,000,000 dollars a year. To me the CEO is responsible for the downfall along with his staff. We the people are going to pay their Golden Parachute BIG TIME.
Why??. Because they will never be brought up on charges of mis-management.
I don't trust Obama because he has No track record. His voting record stinks.
Everyone wants change, but what change are we going to get. So far the Democratic Congress has "screwed" the american people.
Thomas Jefferson once said:
Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the Consent of the Governed,that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of htese ends, it is the Right od the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new Government...It is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide New Guards for their future Security.
I wish this could happen as it seems we the people do the voting and we try to elect a person who will do the will of the people, BUT then I see LOBBISTS controlling Congress.
Harry Truman once said- "History repeats itself" To that fact- look at History:
Egypt in early times was a power. Greece was a power, Persia was a power, Rome was a power, Spain was a power, France was a power, England was a power. Each of these countries lasted in power from anywhere 200 to 400 years. We are just past 200 years.
Congress and the Senate better get their act together and quit this crap of party lines. They need to throw out the lobbists and get down to business of listening to the VOTERS.

Posted by: jmoos | October 6, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

It puzzles me how there are those who think Governor Palin exonerated herself from her disastrous interviews with Charlie Gibson and Katie Couric. Those interviews are still out there aren't they? She said those things didn't she? (or, rather, didn't say those things). Does she get to have a white erase board and just start over? Especially when the time lapse between interviews/"debate" is negligible. I didn't know it works that way.

Posted by: GrandmaK | October 6, 2008 4:23 PM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2010 The Washington Post Company