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Sec. Clinton mouths off

You know how much I like it when Secretary of State Hillary Clinton gets her back up. She did it in Congo in August. And she did it again in Pakistan on Thursday on what was supposed to be a patch-things-up mission. Brava!

Her display of pique occurred during a meeting with Pakistani journalists on Thursday. Talking about Al Qaeda, Clinton said, "I find it hard to believe that nobody in your government knows where they are and couldn't get to them if they really wanted to. Maybe that's the case; maybe they're not gettable. I don't know." With that, the secretary of state gave voice to long-held yet never publicly uttered frustrations the U.S. has with this vital ally.

Right up to the end of her three-day trip, she faced tough questions on a range of issues from a range of audiences. They came to speak truth to power. And I support Clinton's willingness to give it right back at them.

By Jonathan Capehart  | October 30, 2009; 6:18 PM ET
Categories:  Capehart  | Tags:  Jonathan Capehart  
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Comments

First let me begin from Pakistan by saying GET LOST MADAME SECRETARY AND STAY LOST.

Secodnly, I would say well you have the worlds best snooping technology, you have the predators and the satellites and the listening devices, how come you have not been able to catch Osama Bin Ladin? Why is it Pakistans responsibility alone, after all it is your CIA who created these monsters to use against the Soviets.

But the real reason Pakistanis are mad at America is because of its duplicity vizaviz blind support to Israel and towards Israels cruel treatment of Palestinians. Most Pakistanis like most Muslims are decent family based people, where nothing matters more than family and watching two cruel nations like the US and Israel daily kill and mistreat Palestinians is enough to make any decent person want to vomit.

Watching Israel bludgeon ordinary Palestinians for 60 years and directly creating monsters like Taliban and Al Qaeda by the CIA to fight the Soviets and then abandoning them at Pakistani doorsteps and now today bringing daily bombings to Pakistan and all Hillary can do is push back and make excuses, she did not impress anyone, instead of listening and apologizing for Americas cruel policies from Palestine to Iraq to Afghanistan and to using Pakistan, she acted arrogant and talked down to Pakistanis, if not for the decency of Pakistani people, she should have been booted out of Pakistan.

We don't need nor want your aid, its your Benazirs party who is begging for the paltry aid, go spend it on your own people, just get your forces out of our region and we'll be fine.

Americans are a bullying, arrogant nation, which was perfectly represented by the equally arrogant and high pitched Hillary Clinton who only showed the true face of Americans to Pakistan, the impatient take-it-or-leave-it, with me or against me face.

Ms Clinton, from Pakistan - Shut Up.

Posted by: obeeone | October 30, 2009 9:28 PM | Report abuse

I forgot to add, our stupid press just don tknow how to ask th eright questions, what i would want to know is why does she and the US refuse to make any statment in support of the poor Kashmiris, why is it ok for the US to involve the EU and Russia and itself between the Israelis and the Palestinians but not the Pakistanis and Indians over Kashmir where 9 million people have also suffered injustice and tyranny for 60 years, is it because no jews are affected here?

Why is it ok for the US to get involved in North Korea and make sure China and the EU stay involved or that when it comes to Iran the US EU, the US and Russia are all ok to be involved, in every case the US involves many nations except when it comes to Pakistanis and Indians, is the region not worth it?

Hillary thinks the people of Pakistan are stupid, but we are not, we know BS when we hear it, and we got a lot of it, your sweet talk, fancy PR campaign of smiling a lot and acting all cherry may work in other nations but not in Pakistan directly on fire today because of its friendship with you.

Posted by: obeeone | October 30, 2009 9:36 PM | Report abuse

Mr Capeheart you speak like a true House Negro, shame on you. Your Sec of State showed the worst side of your nation to a very decent Pakistani nation, one of the largest Muslim nations on the planet with one of the most powerful Nuclear weapons and all you can applaud is her ghetto like responses.

Posted by: obeeone | October 30, 2009 9:40 PM | Report abuse

I forgot to add, our stupid press just don tknow how to ask th eright questions, what i would want to know is why does she and the US refuse to make any statment in support of the poor Kashmiris,
----------------------
I'll make it for her. PAKISTANI ARMY: Get the hell out of Kashmir--ALL of it. Stop the gun-running. GET OUT!

Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | October 31, 2009 12:37 AM | Report abuse

It is amazing that a nation which survives on handouts talks of pride. Pakistan is obsessed with India,and then Israel, essentially all non-muslims should die to keep the peace loving mullahs happy, then they can continue with their shia-sunni killings. When would you poeple ever grow up?
Sign of maturity is realization of your own mistakes. You practise terror and have the audacity of calling civil democratic nations rogue?

Posted by: amitx1 | October 31, 2009 12:42 AM | Report abuse

This woman is an embarrassment. I would use the word "chutzpa" here, but we are talking about ongoing events in the Muslim world. Doesn't she see any irony in her husband's failure to address this problem in the last century?

Posted by: slim2 | October 31, 2009 12:42 AM | Report abuse

Oh..boy...here goes another delusional Pakistani...if you are so might and powerful nuclear nation..why are you begging us for money and mediation in your matters.....tell me again how many wars you won so far...

I am waiting for the part where you declare sept 11 is US and Israeli job and you are the most peaceful human beings ever...also dont forget to remind us all the beheadings are staged by us...pathetic beggers

Posted by: reddy531 | October 31, 2009 12:51 AM | Report abuse

Yeah... lord forbid someone speak of the elephant in the room

Posted by: ihatelogins | October 31, 2009 12:56 AM | Report abuse

If I were a Pakistani, I would be ashamed of myself..Can you a name a SINGLE positive contribution from Pakistan to the world? All I think of is it is a safe haven for terrorists. You've bred them. Now it is time to pay for your deeds. Chickens are coming home to roost!

Posted by: saneopinion | October 31, 2009 1:14 AM | Report abuse

The truth always hurts from both sides. Hillary did great by not defending the criminal actions of the previous Administration as we see the GOP does. Next Pakistan didn't have an honest President either with Pervez Musharraf. Both sides have to first get pass the 8 years and move forward. At lease Hillary stands up for what's right and isn't just a messager/piano player like Connie Rice was. What's truly sad is Colen Powell was once a well respected honest man and now he's just like the rest of the Bush Administration. It will take action for other countries to believe the United States again not just words.

Posted by: qqbDEyZW | October 31, 2009 1:17 AM | Report abuse

Ms.Clinton has really echoed the sentiments of right thinking Indians who "find it hard to believe that Pakistan is really dealing with all the seriousness linked to Mumbai Terror attacks". As the saying goes "mischief hatches mischief catches" Of late Pakistan has been paying dearly for its terrorists mollycoddling. For the first time Hilary Clinton just released the frustration felt by americans.
Prof.S.Elangovan, Kanchipuram, Tamil nadu, India

Posted by: Annamalai | October 31, 2009 1:33 AM | Report abuse

My "take" was that, with Bush in power, he never really wanted to catch Bin Laden anyway, as it would cool the ardor for intervention.

On the other hand, I think Obama/Clinton really want to get him.

Clinton may be the best Sec. of State since WWII.

Posted by: santafe2 | October 31, 2009 1:33 AM | Report abuse

Here come the Hilalry a$$ kissing Indian posters galore...we know why you Indians love Hilalry, she has arranged lots of H1B visas for you, please go away, no one takes India seriously despite its size. Too bad India did not take up on sincere Pakistani peace efforts because sooner or later it will have to deal with a violent Kashmiri uprising. India has killed 80,000 Kashmiri Muslims per the HRW and Amnesty reports and it will not be allowed to go on doing so forever.

Today Pakistani forces fighting terrorists in Waziritsan are discovering Indian signatures all over the area, with Indian medicines, to Indian tools and Indian chemicals used to make explosives were all shown to the press.

Musharaf was stupid to trust India and scle back on jihadee action in Kashmir, but now the dogs of wr must be let loose on India as well, let them suffer as Kashmiris and Pakistanis today suffer, there is nothing India can do, Pakistan hold as many Nukes as India and India will not risk complete annhilation as they have much more to lose.

Posted by: obeeone | October 31, 2009 2:21 AM | Report abuse

Santefe2, a question the Pakistani media might have asked, but perhaps didn't simply as a matter of respect or protocol, would have been: "Ms. Clinton, why didn't your husband take out Osama Bin Laden when he was offered up back in the 90's?"

Posted by: Curmudgeon10 | October 31, 2009 2:23 AM | Report abuse

Ha, what do you expect from Hillary. You ganged up on her. You thought she will cower and apologize for all your accusations. Did you think she will become nervous of your verbal volleys just because she is a woman. Please understand, what Hillary said is just a tip of the iceberg. She controlled her anger just in time to stop with only one accusation (AlQueda). Pakistani citizens are the most delusional people in the whole world.

Posted by: BetterYet | October 31, 2009 2:44 AM | Report abuse

To all Pakistan posters here, just answer this question, logically, if you can:
"what has Kashmir got to do with Taliban/Alquaeda/Afganistan?"
its like an entirely different topic altogether with no connection. Still Kashmir is brought up as if a child (Pakistan) is stubbornly asking its Uncle (Sam) for a reward (Kashmir) to do his schoolwork (Taliban/Afganistan).

Posted by: BetterYet | October 31, 2009 2:49 AM | Report abuse

i have no doubt whatever that mrs clinton is right.the pakistani regime and armed forces are devious in the the extreme.
they know where al qaeda leaders are hiding.
i do not blame mrs clinton for being so frustrated.

Posted by: razor2 | October 31, 2009 3:30 AM | Report abuse

it is the pakistani intelligence organisation that is to blame.they have a longstanding alliance with al qaeda.
america is stuck with devious allies.the solution is to leave them to it.just leave and let them be devious to each other.

Posted by: razor2 | October 31, 2009 3:36 AM | Report abuse

Good job Hillary!

Posted by: kisna | October 31, 2009 3:42 AM | Report abuse

OBEEONE, me thinks you just got your sitter kicked. My hats off to our Lady Secretary of State. Don't mess with her because she can become a no lady when backed in a corner. What a combo, Clinton and Obama, thank GOD and just in time.

Posted by: eaglehawkaroundsince1937 | October 31, 2009 4:33 AM | Report abuse

Clinton mouths off?...how ironic..so did monica. Hillary is another useless empty suit.

Posted by: JWx2 | October 31, 2009 5:42 AM | Report abuse

Actually it is very simple. Since Pakistan is in delusional state and believes every single problem Pakistan faces today is created everyone else but them so, Mrs. Clinton decided to tell the truth in the hope that Pakistan may get out of its national delusion.

Chances are slim for it happen though. Here is lady who knows her stuff. Well done Madame Secretary!

Posted by: Maya2 | October 31, 2009 5:44 AM | Report abuse

I would note that those who promote hatered and spread false information are the scum of humanity....but the people who buy into this garbage, who disseminate it further and who commit evil acts against others, especially innocents, are just as guilty by their participation.
some people should look into the mirror of their mind before they fault others. as for Iraq and Afghnistan...leave them alone with notice not to bother others! if they do...appropriate action must be taken! enough said.

Posted by: murray1 | October 31, 2009 5:59 AM | Report abuse

Who would miss Pakistan if they folded up their tent and went home. Who would miss Afghanistan or any of the other Middle East states that dance in the streets when USA is attacked?

No one.

They wouldn't even miss themselves the sorry sobs.

Posted by: Darkstar1943 | October 31, 2009 7:00 AM | Report abuse

Who would miss Pakistan if they folded up their tent and went home. Who would miss Afghanistan or any of the other Middle East states that dance in the streets when USA is attacked?

No one.

They wouldn't even miss themselves the sorry sobs.

Posted by: Darkstar1943 | October 31, 2009 7:02 AM | Report abuse

I have to agree with the blathering and hate-ridden obeeome on one point: India has a lot more to lose than Pakistan. I would add that Pakistanis should be asking themselves why.

Posted by: Roytex | October 31, 2009 7:08 AM | Report abuse

As long as the U.S. support the raciest Zionist politics of Jewish lobby-from A to Z-American will be challenged everywhere and their face of hypocrisy will be unveiled.

Marchello,
Snellville,
Ga.

Posted by: thebullss | October 31, 2009 7:10 AM | Report abuse

The Pakistanis who have erupted in indignation at Hillary Clinton should understand that she paid them an enormous compliment.

Clinton not only had meetings with sectors representing the people to answer their questions--something no US Secretary of State has done in my memory--but by being frank and honest, she treated Pakistanis as equals.

That is a big step foward in any relationship.

Posted by: FedUp1 | October 31, 2009 7:15 AM | Report abuse

Jonathan: Your praise is easily gotten. I guess we now know the true meaning of her earlier statement that the US is "open for business". That would be the business of beating up every country on the planet that does not do her bidding.

Why not ask her why her husband did not get bin laden when he had him dead to rights PRIOR to 9/11?

Posted by: hz9604 | October 31, 2009 7:55 AM | Report abuse

There's some difference between the US and Pakistan that's sort of fundamental. In the US, the government does not tolerate domestic terrorism, and hunts people who engage in it relentlessly, no matter what their religious or political affiliation is. In Pakistan, they're given safe haven in the name of some sort of pseudo-religious excuse for their bad behavior. That's the difference that has given Pakistan all of it's problems, and this is not the fault of the US.

Posted by: Nymous | October 31, 2009 8:27 AM | Report abuse

Congrats Hillary for giving it back to them? This is your "analysis"? We're bombing their country and killing their people and you're congratulating her for giving it back to them? Clinton has no right to get "peaked"--she's representing you and me and many others who, frankly, don't even want the US to be in Pakistan and Afghanistan killing and bombing innocent people. She should go there with her head in her hand and beg forgiveness to those families we have destroyed. And you congratulate her? Get a day job.

Posted by: donnasaggia | October 31, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

I agree with Capehart. But I regret reading the comments here. Such a lot of mindless rage. Obeeone set the unfortunate tone, but really it's best not to take the bate. Pakistanis are not all evil.

Posted by: dwatson01 | October 31, 2009 8:47 AM | Report abuse

I agree with Capehart. But I regret reading the comments here. Such a lot of mindless rage. Obeeone set the unfortunate tone, but really it's best not to take the bait. Pakistanis are not all evil.

Posted by: dwatson01 | October 31, 2009 8:49 AM | Report abuse

I guess Clinton still has a lot to learn about diplomacy.

Then again, it has never been her strong suit.

Posted by: postfan1 | October 31, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

All the whining about anything associated with the Obama administration and it's not even a year in power. Is the burden of Democracy too much for them after Obama's win?
I agree we put it on GWB right after the five votes in the Supreme Court gave him the win.

Sec. Clinton is doing a grand job and so is the President.

Posted by: llnstoner | October 31, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

Well about pakistan I would just like to say that it comprises of four main provines,who have a firm belief in each other in times of chaos ,we pakistani's are one nation.Especially the sindhis,pathans ,balochis and the punjabis!
We keep our traditions preserved .Being a student i was watching Hillaries interview on a pakistani channel and she was just taking about the US aids,she wasn't mentioning that pakistan caught hundreds of terrorists for them .WE love our homeland and every one of us guards the soveriegnity of pakistan!

Posted by: hamzakhan | October 31, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

PAKISTAN IS A JOKE, IT WAS CREATED BY CHEATING, IT NEVER EXISTED, EVERY PERSON THERE LIKES TO CHEAT, THEY DONT HAVE EDUCATION, THEY SPLIT FROM INDIA IN 1947..WHY IS IT THERE IS NOT EXPORTS, NO EDUCATION, ONLY TERRORISM. IN 1947 THERE WERE 12% HINDUS IN PAKISTAN, TODAY THERE ARE NO HINDUS IN PAKISTHAN, IN INDIA IN 1947 THERE WERE 6% MUSLIMS NOW THEY ARE 15%, PRESIDENTS OF INDIA ARE MUSLIMS, RICHEST INDIAN IS A MUSLIM. ALL PAKISTAN HAS DONE IS KILL ALL THESE HINDUS OR THROW THEM OUT OF PAKISTAN. EVERY COUNTRY TODAY AS TERRORISM PROBLEM AND ITS ASSOCIATED WITH MUSLIMS, THEY DONT TOLERATE OTHER RELIGION. WHEN THEY ARE A MINORITY THEY WANT RIGHTS, WHEN THEY A MAJORITY THEY CRUSH EVERY OTHER RELIGION. WHY CANT HINDUS OR CHRISTIANS OR JEWS PRACTICE THEIR RELIGION IN SAUDI OR ALL MUSLIM COUNTRIES LIKE MUSLIMS PRACTICE THEIR RELIGION IN INDIA, ISREAL, USA. IF THEY HATE USA, ISREAL, INDIA, ENGLAND, LET ALL MUSLIMS GET OUT OF THESE COUNTRIES AND MOVE BACK TO MUSLIM MAJORITY COUNTRIES, I AM SURE NOT 1 MUSLIM WILL WANT TO MOVE BACK TO PAKISTAN..ITS A JOKE THAT PAKISTAN IS A FAMILY LOVING COUNTRY, IF THEY ARE SHOULD KICK EVERY MULLAH AND BE NORMAL PEOPLE, ALSO AMERICA NEVER CREATED THE PROBLEM PAKISTHAN IS SOO CORRUPT, MONEY MINDED FOR $ SAKE THEY ARE DOING ALL THIS. SO MUCH FOR BEING A MUSLIM KILLING EVERY OTHER HUMAN BEING, ITS IN THEIR BLOOD..ITS OLD LAW EYE FOR EYE..YOU KILLED EVERYBODY ALL OVER THE WORLD, EXPORTED TERROISM, BOMBS ITS PAYING YOU BACK.

Posted by: kotasudhir1 | October 31, 2009 9:30 AM | Report abuse

In her final book Benazir Bhutto roundly criticized Samuel Huntington for a controversial subchapter titled “Islam’s Bloody Borders” in “The Clash of Civilizations.”

When reading obeeone’s silly Chomskyite rants, I can’t help but think that Professor Huntington may have had a legitimate point. There is an undeniable tendency within the Ummah (Islamic world) to seek external scapegoats for internal problems. It is easier to blame The Great Satan, India, or the existence of a Zionist state on an insignificant sliver of land along the Mediterranean coast , than to admit that extremism, poor governance, and outdated schools and financial systems have held back societies that were once among the most innovative on earth.

Posted by: dcn1 | October 31, 2009 9:30 AM | Report abuse

Bravo!
These Pakistanis cowards need to be told the truth. Perhaps obeeone is actually a colonel
in the Paki Army, sounds like it!
I have a very close friend who is pakistani and has been trying to get her family out of there, because you can be disappeared at any moment, only difference between Saddam's Iraq and Pakistan is the spelling....

Posted by: rosenfan1 | October 31, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

obeeone

Great - I'm all for it!

All the clothes in America are imported from Pakistan... We also send billions and billions in aid. If Pakistan has been lying about being friends with the US, so be it. How long they been bowing and scraping for our money?

If you think you would be better off without that, we can stop it tomorrow.

Oh - those nuclear facilities? We'll dismantle them on our way to be sure that you don't share.

Posted by: dutchess2 | October 31, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Way to go, Hillary!
Pakistan played Bush & Cheney - and Obama is left with the Neocons' mess.

Posted by: angie12106 | October 31, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

@obeeone


First, let me thank you and your nation for harboring a man that killed 3,000 citizens of the world. Not just the United States, but the world.

Why don't you show your concern for the slaughter of innocents by capturing these criminals?

Wait, your goverment and citzens just don't care, Ok, I do beleive that the United States is left with no other position then to start bombinb and cointue bombing until your nations cities and towns are rubble.

Have a nice day and may you rot in hell.

Posted by: LiberalBasher | October 31, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Hillary would have made a better VP. One would assume that a nation's chief diplomat would be diplomatic. Apparently this is a baseless assumption; diplomats need to be able to keep thier egos and anger in check. It may be time to bring Condi back; who, other than Hillary, could make it seem that the Bush administration's dealings with our allies were carried out with sensitivity and finesse.

Posted by: csintala79 | October 31, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Truth hurts and so Clinton’s comments naturally infuriated Pakistan.

Pakistan became ‘terror center of the world’ by choice and then spread terror to not just Afghanistan, India and US but to the rest of the world besides suffering itself from these self-inflicted wounds.
No body forced Pakistan’s democratic government to facilitate relocation of Osama bin Laden from Sudan to Afghanistan in 1996. Benazir Bhutto’s government chose to do so of its own free will.

Nobody forced Pakistani Army and Intelligence to create this ’jihadist Frankenstein monster’ in 1990s. Pakistani Army and Intelligence chose to do so with approval and financing by Pakistan’s democratic governments.

Sandy Berger, Clinton’s national security advisor had told 9/11 Commission in March 2004: “Pakistani Army was the ‘midwife’ of Taliban“.

Ex-CIA official Bruce Riedel said in an interview on 1/29/2009 that ''In Pakistan, the jihadist Frankenstein monster that was created by the Pakistani army and the Pakistani intelligence service, is now increasingly turning on its creators. It's trying to take over the laboratory.''

Pakistan continues to deny the existence of Quetta Shura Taliban (QST) when even General McChrystal termed QST as the biggest threat to US/NATO mission in Afghanistan.

With an ally like Pakistan, US has NO chance of winning in Afghanistan.

Posted by: simplesimon33 | October 31, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Pakistan was created out of the paranoia of Muhammad Ali Jinnah at the end of the Raj. Tough thing to say but Pakistanis have played the victim card since independence. Hatred of America has replaced hatred of Britain. Victimhood has become ingrained in the Pakistani soul. Problems are too often blamed on outsiders instead of recognising that Pakistanis themselves bear some responsibility for many of their problems. Certainly America has done some stupid things that have harmed the relationship over the years and the drone attacks are one of the dumbest, but the present denial of the danger Pakistan faces from political Islam is unfortunate. The idea that everything would be just hunky dory in Pakistan if only the Americans were not in the region is strongly held. We've sent billions to Pakistan that has been used to finance its "war" with India. Pakistan has also used some of this money to build nuclear capability which it then sold to secretly to Iran, Libya, South Korea, and perhaps others thereby poking its finger in the collective eye of the West. While India focused on building a 21st century economy, successive Pakistani governments have devoted billions to building their military and trying to "free" Kashmir. Frankly it is time to find another way to fight Quaeda. We need to pull back from both Pakistan and Afghanistan. If we have lost hearts and minds in both countries then they will not be reliable allies in this fight. But, at some point Pakistanis will have to deal with political Islam. The middle and upper class men and women who gave Hillary what-for on her visit (justifiably in many cases) and some of those who have written comments here will face a very different world if the Pakistani Taliban takes over. It will be a world they will not like very much, I suspect.

Posted by: tarryh | October 31, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Am mystified and bemused that Mr. Capehart believes he is now a qualified foreign relations pundit. Sure, anyone can play, but why him--with his lack of pertinent experience.
As for Hillary, right on. Tell the Pakistanis what they need to know about what we think and how lame they are in protecting OBL. Remember, this is the country that reveres AQ Khan for proliferating nuclear tech. to many bad countries.

Posted by: axolotl | October 31, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

How does anybody deal with a society that holds grudges for hundreds of years? Blames their shortcomings on everybody but themselves? Can not form a government other than tribal leadership? I support our troops but this is rediculous. Pull them out and deal with survivors after the fact. They do not deserve our blood and treasue. Finally, Sec. Clinton sounds like a candidate for the 2012 presidential election. At this point we could do worse.

Posted by: fcrucian | October 31, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

She could not tell them Obama is only sending 10,000 letting the terrorists flee from Pakistan into Afghanistan, so she threw them a curveball. The aid for S. Waziristan IDPs left them no choice but to bite their tongues. We have done a good job in not bringing up sensitive issues like the military not abiding by Kerry-Lugar aid conditions. They are whomping many foreign nationals in S. Waziristan while being attacked in crowded marketplaces. The attack on the university has hardened the backlash to the Taliban. She is brilliant with keeping them off guard, when Obama left her out to dry to get Pelosi type democratic voters to the polls by not making the 10,000 increase public.

Posted by: jameschirico | October 31, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Memo to Obeegone: The families of the innocents harmed are taking a proper revenge with drone attacks. Killing Umma is not advancing Islam (jihad). Tell me mid-east interlopers that turn children into bombs are preferable to Americans that give 150 million in IDP aid?

Posted by: jameschirico | October 31, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

some have said that the people of afghanistan and pakistan are perjured murderous bloody full of blame

savage extreme rude cruel not to trust

i disagree.but there is a culture difference so we should not be there.leave now.

Posted by: razor2 | October 31, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

Beginning Preamble:
12th April, 1973

Preamble
Whereas sovereignty over the entire Universe belongs to Almighty Allah alone, and the authority to be exercised by the people of Pakistan within the limits prescribed by Him is a sacred trust;

And whereas it is the will of the people of Pakistan to establish an order :-

Wherein the State shall exercise its powers and authority through the chosen representatives of the people;

Wherein the principles of democracy, freedom, equality, tolerance and social justice, as enunciated by Islam, shall be fully observed;

Wherein the Muslims shall be enabled to order their lives in the individual and collective spheres in accordance with the teachings and requirements of Islam as set out in the Holy Quran and Sunnah;

Wherein adequate provision shall be made for the minorities freely to profess and practise their religions and develop their cultures;
=======
Until Dr.Uri Rubin registers HaQuran with the Library of Congress, humankind, insanity is your life and death.

Posted by: macnietspingal1 | October 31, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Way to go Hillary!!! Finally someone with b_lls! May you try again in 2012!

And to "obeeone", make it obeegone.....

Posted by: missingwisc | October 31, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

We have always tried to be polite. Look where it gets us. Finally someone has said something truthful. Pakistan is a 3 rd world filthy country,corrupt,disease ridden and illiterate. I am so glad someone finally told these back woods, really needs a bath nation to shut TFU!

Posted by: -PBL- | October 31, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

obeone---- u be smoking too much crack with your boy Bama. Go Hillary..tell them to stop sucking us for billions and just do their damn job already. They are playing games to get billions from us. You can stop that in 2012 because no body will be voting for No-Bama, No-Balls, no Birth certificate.

Posted by: JUNGLEJIM123 | October 31, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Just one question: Was Hillary being professional, i.e. was her statement of frustration actually planted to look like she misspoke, or did she make the kind of amateur like blunder a secretary of state should never make?

Posted by: kcooper35 | October 31, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Kerry and others do the hard State Department work in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

And Hilly is kept busy dusting the diplomatic furniture and wearing a head scarf like some little good woman in an Islamic country.

I guess she'll be cleaning the White House carpets next...

A sad end for an ambitious woman.

Posted by: AlongTheWatchTowers | October 31, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

And that was helpful because????????????
To me she's already planning for the next prsidential election by posturing as a strong leader versus the seemingly undecided Obama.

Posted by: marioliggi | October 31, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Kerry and others do the hard State Department work in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

And Hilly is kept busy dusting the diplomatic furniture and wearing a head scarf like some little good woman in an Islamic country.

I guess she'll be cleaning the White House carpets next...

A sad end for an ambitious woman.

Posted by: AlongTheWatchTowers | October 31, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

The only way to handle Pakistanis, and perhaps all Muslims, is to give it back to them with spades.

Posted by: ravitchn | October 31, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

"Americans are a bullying, arrogant nation, which was perfectly represented by the equally arrogant and high pitched Hillary Clinton who only showed the true face of Americans to Pakistan, the impatient take-it-or-leave-it, with me or against me face."

Gee, I wish we could be more legit like Pakistan, a land born with the death of millions.

Do you think we really want to be dealing with you? What do you clowns have to offer us? The truth is we have to deal with you because your incompetent and unstable nation has somehow managed to arm yourselves with nuclear weapons.

Go a few years without a coup, assassination or a civil war and then maybe you can be judged to be capable of managing your own affairs. In the meantime, we are stuck dealing with you.

Posted by: bobmoses | October 31, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

The evidence is that nobody, but NOBODY takes post-Iraq Invasion, post-Financial Crisis America seriously. Not even a micro country like Honduras, where, one day after a deal touted as agreed with ‘weighty encouragement’ from visiting American Congressmen to reinstate Zelaya to power, the agreement is reported to be unraveling as a result of Michletti’ duplicity. Such pathetic failures of ‘diplomacy’ are occurring within the Organization of American States, of which America is the most prominent member. On the more serious issues of America’s difficult dealings with Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran, I wish, almost against all hope, that the Obama administration bring enough goodwill, sincerity, understanding and resolve to the concerns of the citizens of these proud nations for the respect of their sovereignty and dignity. Central Asia is the global stage where not only the New Great Game is being played among regional and global powers for influence regarding energy-resource supply. It is also the global stage where, as Tom Holland puts it in his book "Persian Fire", the first truly global civilization arose under Cyrus, Cambyses and Darius, an achievement that was later repeated under Murad II, Mehmet II and Suleyman the Magnificent. Turkey is doing a great job trying to hyphenate Eurasia, dialoguing with Western secular and spiritual leaders, including Pope Benedict XVI, and his Muslim family, from China's Turkic-stock Uighurs to the descendents of the proud Mughals in India and Pakistan, to the Parsis and the Arabs and the peoples of North Caucasus. The aim is to build up a new, Third-Millenium civilizational construct that marries the best of Eastern wisdom and moderation with the best of Western technology and pragmatism. I hope that Obama and Ms. Clinton allow themselves to be inspired by the same spirit that animates Recep Teyyib Erdogan and Ali Khamenei/Ahmadi-Nejad and their Eurasian counterparts

Posted by: FUZZYTRUTHSEEKER | October 31, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

I salute Sec. Clinton for telling truth to Pakistanis. What do they want ??? They want all the aid and the same time keeping our enemies.

I have developed great respect for Madame Secretary.

Posted by: smart_sha | October 31, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Everybody feel better now? Yes, it might feel good to rant about Pakistan like this, but it comes to no good in the long run. The Pakistani people tend to believe this whole Taliban mess in their backyard is America's fault and for the US Sec State to point fingers at them, at a time when they are actually starting to do something about it, is well, not exactly an example of fine statesmanship.

Posted by: kilgore_nobiz | October 31, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Obeoone is a PERFECT example of what comprises the soon-to-be-gone Pakistan today-the most ugly and corrosive educated "elite" (I use that term loosely) morally and spiritually corrupt-but mostly just incredibly CORROSIVE, AND VENOMOUS BEYOND WORDS TO ANYONE WHO WANTS TO DISTURB THE LIES THE MYTHS THE ALTERNATE REALITY THAT THESE "ELITISTS" CREATE FOR THEMSELVES, IN ORDER TO PROP UP THEIR NO-GOOD COUNTRY TO FURTHER THEIR INDIVIDUAL AND TRIBAL INTERESTS

GO TO HELL PAKISTANIS-YOU PARTICULARLY OBEONE-INDIA IS GOING TO WIPE THE FLOOR WITH YOUR A SSES-AND I'LL BE THE FIRST TO SUPPORT IT-I SAW A LITTLE TOO MUCH OF VENOM UP THERE ON THE PAKI-INDIA BORDER LAST YEAR-YOU CAN'T TAKE PEOPLE LIKE MUSHARRAF, CAN YOU? HE'S TOO GD HONEST FOR THE LIKES OF YOU VENOMOUS WEASELS!

Posted by: Spring_Rain | October 31, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse


It isn't whether she MOUTHED OFF...and that was good or bad.

IT's whether it is AMERICAN policy to
say what she said.

She is a disaster waiting to happen. Much as I can't stand to listen to Senator Kerry, he'd be much better.

It is good that Clinton is submerged by all the people appointed to variouis hot spots to do the real work...

but she just proved why they were needed...and why they were put where they are.

She'll do something smart a one of these times to prove she's important.
And a real mess will ensue.

NOT that ths one wasn't.

Posted by: whistling | October 31, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

P.S, AND CAPEHEART, LOSE THE GD MISOGYNISM, WILL YOU? SPEAK WITH A LITTLE RESPECT FOR THE SEC. OF STATE-"MOUTHS OFF" IS NOT EXACTLY WHAT YOU'D SAY IF THERE WAS A MAN IN OFFICE, I'D WAGER!

Posted by: Spring_Rain | October 31, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

She has more cojones than the men we send out into the world and her comments were refreshing. They don't like the "strings" attached to our billions in aid? Good. Give take back and apply it to the US economy.

Posted by: djmolter | October 31, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

HILLARY CLINTON WOULD HAVE MADE A MUCH BETTER PRESIDENT THAN OBAMA-SHE IS DOING ALL THE HARD LIFTING WHILE HE POSES SALUTING AT DOVER FOR PHOTO OPS AND THROWS PARTIES, AT THE WHITE HOUSE. He ignores this as well:
TEHRAN, Iran – Senior Iranian lawmakers rejected on Saturday a U.N.-backed plan to ship much of the country's uranium abroad for further enrichment, raising further doubts about the likelihood Tehran will finally approve the deal.
The UN-brokered plan requires Iran to send 1.2 tons (1,100 kilograms) of low-enriched uranium — around 70 percent of its stockpile — to Russia in one batch by the end of the year, easing concerns the material would be used for a bomb.
After further enrichment in Russia, France would convert the uranium into fuel rods that would be returned to Iran for use in a reactor in Tehran that produces medical isotopes.
Iran has indicated that it may agree to send only "part" of its stockpile in several shipments. Should the talks fail to help Iran obtain the fuel from abroad, Iran has threatened to enrich uranium to the higher level needed to power the research reactor itself domestically.
The Tehran reactor needs uranium enriched to about 20 percent, higher than the 3.5 percent-enriched uranium Iran is producing for a nuclear power plant it plans to build in southwestern Iran. Enriching uranium to even higher levels can produce weapons-grade materials.
"We are totally opposed to the proposal to send 3.5 percent enriched uranium in return for 20 percent enriched fuel," senior lawmaker Alaeddin Boroujerdi was quoted by the semiofficial ISNA news agency as saying.
Boroujerdi, who heads the parliament's National Security Committee, said the priority for Iran was to buy nuclear fuel and hold on to its own uranium. He also said there was no guarantee that Russia or France will keep to the deal and supply nuclear fuel to Iran if Tehran ships them its enriched uranium.
"The preferred option is to buy fuel ... there is no guarantee that they will give us fuel ... in return for enriched uranium. We can't trust the West," ISNA quoted Boroujerdi as saying.
Kazem Jalali, another senior lawmaker, said Iran wants nuclear fuel first before agreeing to ship its enriched uranium stocks to Russia and France even if it decides to strike a deal.

Posted by: mharwick | October 31, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse


Hillary has the same old problem.

The SecState is the CHIEF DIPLOMAT for the US.

But HIllary, as usual, needs to show off, tell of everybody, have her say.

That's not her job. She'll do something
incredibly stupid...but by that time the whole world will know she's nothing but a mouth off.

The other "czars" and stragetic Senators are doing the real work.

Everyone who knows the State Department knows she is unsuited. Mouth off as Secreary of State? A break, please.

Posted by: whistling | October 31, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

and whistling, after reading your post, I have to conclude, aside from the misogyism, that YOU truly truly DO NOT understand AMERICAN foreign policy-in fact, your dislike for HRC colors your viewpoint, which makes it immediately non-credible.

In short, you don't know what the eff you're talking about-HRC SAID EXACTLY THE RIGHT THING TO EXACTLY THE RIGHT PEOPLE-BECAUSE THE PAKISTANIS DON'T LIKE BEING PULLED OUT OF THEIR LITTLE DREAMWORLD-AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HRC WAS THERE TO DO!

Posted by: Spring_Rain | October 31, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

P.S. MHARWICK, DJMOLTER-YOU ALL HAVE IT EXACTLY RIGHT-IT IS THE SEC. OF STATE WHO IS IN FACT DOING ALL THE HEAVY LIFTING IN THE ADMINISTRATION, PLAYING BAD COP TO OBAMA'S GOOD COP-AND SHE IS GETTING MIGHTILY CRITICIZED FOR THAT-A THANKLESS POSITION INDEED-BUT SHE IS MAKING PROGRESS IN WAYS THAT WILL NEVER BE PUBLICIZED, AND NOT IMMEDIATELY APPARENT-YOU'LL SEE-SHE WILL BE THE ONE TO BREAKTHROUGH THE IMPASSE ON THE ISRAELI/PALESTINIAN QUESTION.

Posted by: Spring_Rain | October 31, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

It's time to bring the troops home.

Posted by: zephyr99 | October 31, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Obeeone be gone! Thank you for your comments. You best demonstrate why the United States has no business interfering in your part of the world. Our best strategy is to withdraw our troops, support and assistance.

The Pakistanis and Afghans deserve eachother. To the extent either of these states exeercises its sovereignty, it is to be held accountable for any further misdeeds or outarages perpertrated against the United Satate.Regretably, we have a President that refuses,like his predecessor, to acknowlege the reality of the facts on the ground. He is sacrificing the national security of the United States chasing a rainbow delusion of reconciliation and rapproachemt with hostile, antipathetic regimes such as what exists in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

You are free to repudiate, disrespect and disregard what American believe and cherish. I only regret our failure to abide by our convictions by replying in kind.

Posted by: lch123 | October 31, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

If the insurgents in Pakistan and the Pakistani people are all against the USA, and the US is behind their problems, why do the insurgents focus on attacking Pakistani Muslims?

I understand the anger over US policy towards Israel, but I do not understand why one group of Muslims attacks another group of Muslims as a way of expressing this frustration with the USA, and how the USA is behind those attacks. Makes little sense.

Posted by: Matthew_DC | October 31, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

djmolter,

You write (at 12:13 a.m.)'They don't like the "strings" attached to our billions in aid? Good. Give take back and apply it to the US economy'. Nothing, but NOTHING has been disbursaed yet. And what the Pakistanis are saying is precisely what you say "If there are going to be strings attached, we don't want so-called aid (a large part of it in the fomr of military assistance, anyway, designed to encourage us to kil our own people). Keep it and use it to reapy your foreign debt and avoid the coming crash in the value of the dollar".

Posted by: FUZZYTRUTHSEEKER | October 31, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

mrs clinton told the truth.

Posted by: razor2 | October 31, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

mrs clinton for president.

Posted by: razor2 | October 31, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Bush did not catch bin Laden when he had the chance(s) simply because his family, and the Carlyle Group, are such good friends and business partners with so many members of the bin Laden family. He may be the "black sheep" of that family but they still don't want to see him dead, and that's what would happen if he were captured or cornered by us.

Our deferential-to-power/cowed media very politely bit their tongue on that fact for eight years to keep up Bush's image of "looking out for America's safety".

And by now, bin Laden could be just about anywhere. Good luck finding him.

Posted by: B2O2 | October 31, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

all that mrs clinton told pakistan is "guys we know your tricks."

that is all she said.
has pakistan been cheating the united states.
there is no doubt whatsoever.they take our money and curse us.

Posted by: razor2 | October 31, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

whistling i do not agree with you.mrs clinton is a huge asset for this nation.i wish others spoke their minds.

Posted by: razor2 | October 31, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

zephyr99 is right.bring the troops home.why do we fight on the side of criminals.

they stain us.let us leave.

Posted by: razor2 | October 31, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

I agree with her 100%. I find it very, very hard to believe the Pakistani government doesn't know where Al Qaeda is hiding either. Personally I think part of the, oh so noble, Pakistani government is in ca hoots with Al Qaeda and everybody is too scared to tell the truth. Hell, Pakistan ain't much bigger than a grammar school's sandbox.

Posted by: jws2346 | October 31, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

I've spent a lot of time in Pakistan and still have many contacts there. Here's my problem with Pakistan: In the past, they actively supported the Taliban and other Islamic groups as useful tools to advance their own strategic objectives. Pakistanis love to say that the US abandoned them after the Soviets left Afghanistan. Well, Pakistan's ISI certainly used that period fruitfully by supporting every extremist group around and ultimately the Taliban. My advice to Pakistanis is this: STOP BLAMING OTHERS FOR PROBLEMS OF YOUR OWN MAKING!!! Yes, you're a member of the nuclear club. But what other achievement can you name? Your country as a whole graduates fewer PHDs in the sciences than a single Indian university (yeah shocking but sadly true).
Start taking care responsibility for the seeds you have sown and stop blaming the "foreign" hand for all your troubles. Take a good long look in the mirror because that's where your problems are and your solutions reside. Stop looking for a handout every time you land yourselves in a mess. The current situation in the tribal areas is a classic example. You folks supported these extremists in the past and even made deals with them while they were killing your soldiers on a daily basis. You expect respect with behavior like this? Give me a break. Wake up and smell the roses. A lot of the blame for what's going on resides with Pakistan. You reap what you sow.

Posted by: chris30338 | October 31, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Hillary Clinton should ask herself a different question: What is the difference in terrorism between innocent people killed by planes flown into buildings on 9/11 and the systematic use of drones to kill people in Pakistan by remote control?

Is there a declaration of war in either case? Does the US admit it is doing this, or are these rogue elements doing it without Presidential authorization? In both cases is it OK to kill non-combatants?

Posted by: evelyn911 | October 31, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: evelyn911: Hillary Clinton should ask herself a different question: What is the difference in terrorism between innocent people killed by planes flown into buildings on 9/11 and the systematic use of drones to kill people in Pakistan by remote control?

Is there a declaration of war in either case? Does the US admit it is doing this, or are these rogue elements doing it without Presidential authorization? In both cases is it OK to kill non-combatants?

___________________________________________________

Evelyn, if the Pakistanis had the guts to take care of these extremists on their own, we wouldn't have to send drones t kill them. Time and time again, the Pakistanis have protected the very same extremists who are killing our soldiers in Afghanistan. In fact, we have electronic intercepts where Pakistan's ISI is warning extremist leaders when they are being targeted by us. The drone attacks in Pakistan are a result of this collaboration between the Pakistani Intelligence Services and the extremists killing our troops. If we could trust the Pakistanis to do the job, there would be no drone attacks. In fact, the very same drone attacks being publicly condemned by Pakistan are also helping them. An example was the recent killing of Baitullah Massood, the extremist leader behind many of the bomb attacks in Pakistan and the primary suspect behind the assassination of Benazir Bhutto. If Pakistan doesn't step up to the plate and cannot be trusted, then we have to do this on our own. We cannot just sit on our hands while our troops are being murdered in Afghanistan by these extremists being manned and supplied from across the border in Pakistan.

Posted by: chris30338 | October 31, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Yes you went to finish the trust deficit but you did worst by telling the hosts that you are not going after Al-Qaida. A country that has lost 4,000 people to this war. What Pakistan is sacrificing no country has done that so far to fight against Al-Qaida


Which Al-Qaida member have USA have arrested or killed themselves? They occupied Afghanistan in 2001 have the achieved anything there?

Pakistan has killed or captured 70 Al-Qaida top leaders since 2001. Al-Qaida are dispersed all over they wont be sitting in one place for them to capture. Ms Clinton may I ask you a question do not think people are that stupid to see through your comments as USA has failed itself so its easy to blame other countries for what USA should have been responsible.

Posted by: ratee_7772000 | October 31, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Well US CIA trained and airlifted the AL-Qaida from Arab countries in 1979. And then funded and trained them and posted them in Afghanistan. Then you went away from 1989 to 2001!! Left the trained terrorists there and after your own 3,000 people you came back and said they are the worst terrorists!!!

Shame on you this monster was yours why do you blame a poor country who has lost 4,000 people just because you cannot take responsibility for your own actions.

Your preaching that you don't practice yourself!!! You think that 3,000 American lives lost in 9/11 are more important than lives of millions that got killed in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan as collateral damage because of your callousness and your own countries bad leadership and bad decisions.

Posted by: ratee_7772000 | October 31, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Hilarious, Hilary, Just hilarious!!!!!

Posted by: yard80197 | October 31, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Waaah Waaah. Pakistan's people need to stop it. They want to hate tell us all their problems are our fault, then take our money and then get huffy when we ask what they are doing with it. Hillary was right if they don't want the money don't take it and continue to let exremists blow them up, and we all know the government of pakistan knows exactly where the taliban are. The truth will set you free. I am sick of the countries who whine and cry about where is the US want our money but dare we say anything .

Posted by: jmcfan2 | October 31, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

P.S.:
AND CAPEHEART, LOSE THE GD MISOGYNISM, WILL YOU?
SPEAK WITH A LITTLE RESPECT FOR THE SEC. OF STATE --
"MOUTHS OFF" IS NOT EXACTLY WHAT YOU'D SAY IF THERE WAS A MAN IN OFFICE, I'D WAGER!
Posted by: Spring_Rain | October 31, 2009 12:12 PM
==
Spring Rain:
Thanks for this comment.
This derogatory term wasn't ever leveled at Veep Cheney when he told off a Senator on the floor of the Senate in the crudest language possible.
Jonathan:
You're one of my favorite guests on MSNBC.
You don't strike me as a young man who discriminates against women.
A better headline might have been, perhaps:
"Clinton as diplomat tells it like it is" --
That would have provoked a wholly different conversation in Comments than the one this headline provoked today.
You might point out that in the world of diplomatic double-speak, inuendo, and empty rhetoric, Secretary Clinton (and use her title, please; she's not just "Mrs." Clinton) has a habit of meeting with ordinary people in the countries she visits, like students, business and service people, etc.
She just doesn't remain buried within diplomatic circles.
As such, when she meets real people coping with real life, she tends to be blunt and candid, which is refreshing.
We haven't seen an American diplomat be that straightforward when visiting volatile regions in years.
When she makes headlines in that country, the double-speaking leadership gets the message, believe me.
And the best message they get is that this time, their attempt to fool the American government and keep the money flowing didn't work as well as they may have thought it did.
As an aside, I just saw Secretary Clinton addressing the press in Israel.
She was asked a question about whether or not the runoff boycott in Afghanistan affected the "legitimacy" of the Afghan runoff election.
She explained clearly that it did not, and why, is simple easy-to-understand words that demonstrated a capacity to teach and to think better than most of the articles I've seen written on the subject.
Thanks for your work, Jonathan.

Posted by: Judy-in-TX | October 31, 2009 5:17 PM | Report abuse

it is sad to read these comments about pakistan&pakistanis living in the west.that coutry supposed to mean,PURE is rapidly becoming PUTRID.supposed to show the world all about muslim philosophy,brotherhood,maintaining faith,helping the poor etc.but ending up begging for its very economic,sovereign survival hopefully the paki ruling class develop that "EPIPHANY"that will enlighten them with sincere LEADERSHIP to help their country men thru PEACEFUL means before ending up in PIECES.

Posted by: balasrini1242 | October 31, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

obeeone wrote: "Secodnly, I would say well you have the worlds best snooping technology, you have the predators and the satellites and the listening devices, how come you have not been able to catch Osama Bin Ladin? Why is it Pakistans responsibility alone, after all it is your CIA who created these monsters to use against the Soviets."
-------------
Ha! Such a great point! I hear the dude is like 6'4" to 6'6"!!! All you gotta do is set cameras at all locals - they do that all over the USA to catch people speeding in their cars - set it to ID anyone over six feet and we'd have him! This could be fun. Help us do that. C'mon!

Posted by: 2009frank | October 31, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

Good for Hillary -- she was calling a spade a spade. There is so much unrest and corruption in that whole region. I just wish we could get the heck out of Dodge.

Posted by: sharronkm | October 31, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Good for Hillary -- she was calling a spade a spade.
There is so much unrest and corruption in that whole region.
I just wish we could get the heck out of Dodge.
Posted by: sharronkm | October 31, 2009 5:34 PM
==
Sharron, I wish we could, too.
obeeone and 2009frank are living in a fantasy world.
First of all, if obeeone complains about the situation between Israel and Palestine, I say he has no reason to complain about violence in Pakistan.
He's trying to link the two; they are not inextricably linked.
If he's TRULY from Pakistan, he should look to his own country's irresponsibility in sheltering the Taliban and keeping military forces out of the tribal regions including the Khyber Pass.
Had we had the permission of Pakistan, we would have gone in there and cleaned out that mess.
But, oh no.
Pakistan was in bed with the Taliban and the insurgency in Afghanistan and Iraq and the U.S. was barred from following the criminals to their lairs.
Pakistanis like that drug money a lot, even more than they enjoy spending their American military aid; they subsist on both.
Leave Israel and the Palestinians out of this.
The pursuit of Al Queda is the brass tacks of reality, where the rubber meets the road.
So we use our "eyes in the sky" -- so what?
We can't send troops in there; Pakistan won't allow it.
Get real, boyz.
We know where you're really coming from: one of them damned neo-con think tanks in Washington desperately trying to act like you know whereof you speak.
You're not fooling us at all.

Posted by: Judy-in-TX | October 31, 2009 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Dear Obeeone:
It is people like you that are holding Pakistan and other muslim countries back. Whatever USA, Israel and others may or may not have done wrong, it is a coward's way of blaming them for all your problems. You have a victim mentality and people with a victim mentality never move forward. Look at the China article in this edition and see how far they have come. Your neighbor, India, decided to stop blaming the western world for everything. See how they are prospering. To paraphrase a pastor I know, "..If somebody asks you what is wrong with the world, you should answer "" I am what is wrong with this world"".." The only thing you control is your own actions, so do something good for yourself, your family and your country and stop whining.

Posted by: viking54 | October 31, 2009 6:31 PM | Report abuse

A news report today says:

"Turkey flirts with Tehran
NATO's only Muslim member is undermining Western efforts to keep nuclear weapons from Iran by expanding its trade ties.

Even as Congress pushes legislation aimed at punishing foreign companies that sell petroleum to Iran, and the United Nations prepares to consider sanctions against that country if an ongoing round of nuclear talks fails, Iranian leaders this week were elated over plans to treble trade ties with a key Middle Eastern power."

My friends, much longer are we going to put up with this amateurish attempt at foreign policy?

President Obama has royally screwed up with our allies and has demonstrated again and again a gross ineptitude in dealing with people who hate us, and who would be delighted at the prospect of mass death in our country.

He is far worse than Carter, something I never hoped to say about anyone.

Posted by: AlongTheWatchTowers | October 31, 2009 7:12 PM | Report abuse

To the jihadist Muslims of the Middle East, Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan:

The average American sometimes wishes that we would just let loose and be done with you, once and for all. But we are too nice of a country to do so. But if you don't recognize how dangerous it can be to truly awaken a sleeping giant, you should be considering it.

Posted by: AverageJoe9 | October 31, 2009 7:13 PM | Report abuse

AlongTheWatchTowers,

You did not read the complete news, buster!
Not only is NATO member Turkey trebling its trade with Iran, it will dump the fast-shrinking US Dollar as means of payment settlement. Many other countriesa are doing the same.
So, yes. Don't "put up with this amateurish attempt at foreign policy?"
Just get the hell out of all Muslim lands. Keep your "aid' to repay the astronomically-sized foreign debt that you have accumulated.
Oh, you might wish, if you are literate enough, to read the book "Threshold : The Crisis of Western Culture" by Thom Hartmann.

Posted by: FUZZYTRUTHSEEKER | October 31, 2009 7:48 PM | Report abuse

Go Hill dawg!! Pakistan had to be called out for what the place really is - a terrorist's paradise.

those who are calling it 'un-diplomatic' do not realize how crazy it is negotiating with a multi-headed monster. There are too many power brokers in the country - the puppet government, the army, the intelligence and the mullahs.

The most under-represented party in Pakistan's political structure are its people, most of whom are ignorant Koran lovers, known for hating India and other 'infidels' more than they love Pakistan.

Pakistan needs to be saved from itself otherwise its headed into the most deadly civil war the world has seen..

Posted by: the-grasshopper | October 31, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

She had her back up every since they told her she had to wear that blanket on her head . She looked like one of Michael Jackson's kids only grown up white , fat , and ugly . I saw that photo all over the brit papaers but not here . Why ?

Posted by: borntoraisehogs | October 31, 2009 9:11 PM | Report abuse

I have no doubt that most Pakistanis are reasonable, decent people who want what most people want...a peaceful, stable life.

But I also think Pakistanis must acknowledge that there are some very bad people taking shelter in their country, including some of the very people (Bin Laden) who attacked the United States. If Pakistanis are unable or unwilling to bring those people to justice, they shouldn't be surprised when the U.S. tries to do the job themselves.

And in many ways it seems like the areas where the bad guys are hiding aren't really part of Pakistan anyways. There's a reason why the tribal areas are almost always referred to as the "Lawless Trible Areas"...because Pakistani laws don't seem to be in effect in those areas.

If Pakistan finally proves up to the task of asserting control over those areas (and South and North Waziristan), then the U.S. should stay away. But till that happens, the U.S. has every right to go after the people who attacked us, wherever they are.

Posted by: wagner3792 | October 31, 2009 9:25 PM | Report abuse

First off I'm no Democrat nor am I a Clinton fan in any sense of the word.
However, Pakistan is NO ally of the United States, make no mistake about that.

If the country in question has 65% of it's general population living with extreme anti-American sentiment, then the ally myth is busted.

How could a true ally have Bin Laden living within it's borders for eight years and not have caught or killed him by now if they were really trying?

The fact is that they're NOT trying to catch or kill him for fear of fueling MORE Muslim extremist unrest (you know, bombs, murder, beheadings and such).
The only reason they're fighting at all is because if they want millions more in U.S. aid they have no choice.

And where does this aid money go?
It's spent on defensive and offensive weapons systems and supplies for their military which will someday more than likely be used on American or western citizens.

Pakistan an important ally? Bah!
With allies like Pakistan who needs enemies?

Posted by: Thozmaniac | October 31, 2009 9:57 PM | Report abuse

Obeeone-your religion is a menace to society! Is it true Muhammid was a flaming homosexual? Personally, I will cheer the day your country becomes nothing more than a pile of rubble. You realize how idiotic you Muslims look in Mecca, trampling other Muslims to death while going in a circle like a dog chasing his tail, and all in the name of "Allah'?

PS-Tell Allah the USA said "F U K YOU"!!

Posted by: cschotta1 | October 31, 2009 10:02 PM | Report abuse

Well said Madam Secretary Clinton! It is what it is! The Pakistani Intelligent Agency is a highly competent organization by any standard so for them to be clueless about Bin Laden and the Al Qaeda leadership where abouts in their country is very difficult to believe indeed.

Posted by: Citi__Street | October 31, 2009 10:18 PM | Report abuse

"...mouths off." Is this a new low standard for the morons at Washington Post?

Posted by: kevin1231 | October 31, 2009 10:22 PM | Report abuse

Capehart mouthing off about Pakistan is interesting, I confess. Got his back up, I see. Wonder how much he really knows. Instead of oohing, ahing, and gushing, he would have done better to post with substance. There is a lot to say.

Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | October 31, 2009 10:38 PM | Report abuse

Dear Obeeone:

Some of the comments posted by cschotta1 and others are moronic, ignorant and hateful. Please ignore them, most Americans may not be well informed, but at least they are well intentioned. My point to you was that a victim mentality gets you nowhere. Look at Japan, in 1945 USA had bombed it back to the stone age and dropped two atomic bombs. The Japanese did not look back and did not feel sorry for themselves and in 1964 the Olympics were in Tokyo. In that war my country was occupied by the Germans and my father was beaten to pulp by German soldiers. However, we made peace and we have an open border. You must understand that after 9/11 Americans listened to the hateful rhetoric coming out of the Muslim world and came to conclusions not favorable to Muslims. Understand that words have power. Look at your great countryman, Nobel Laureate Prof. Abdus Salam to see what can be accomplished when you do not have an angry heart.

Posted by: viking54 | October 31, 2009 10:38 PM | Report abuse


Hillary was too polite. Pakistan accepts our aid and we get nothing but ill will. There will never be anything but turmoil and hate toward the 'infidels' in the arab countries.
.

Posted by: Billw3 | October 31, 2009 11:23 PM | Report abuse

viking54 mentioned that words have power, but the one word that has real significance here was not mentioned, either by the author of the article, nor by Sec. Clinton, nor by anyone else that responded. What's the word? The word is.....opium. Yessir, primary active ingredient in Laudanum, the stuff from which heroin is made. The production and sale of opium and heroin is very lucrative, else people wouldn't be risking life and limb and imprisonment to be in that business.

So, where's the opium/heroin go? Europe. Probably Russia. Probably more affluent parts of Asia, and, to the US of A.

If you want to put out the fire, aim the extinguisher at the base of the flames, there. People can pontificate and pound their shoes on the table all day long, and still not get much done, and until they start focusing on putting a stop to the opium stop on the historic Silk Road, then business as usual will likely continue.
Militant drug lords are militant drug lords, no matter what they call themselves, no matter what country they're in. Again, if the business wasn't lucrative, people wouldn't be in it. People would sell like, maybe goat cheese, or paintings, or something like that. But, the drug money buys guns, and it just gets ugly from there.


http://www.opioids.com/timeline/

"Afghanistan now accounts for 95 percent of the world's opium poppy crop, a 3 percentage point increase over last year."

Um, hello? Maybe it's time to stop being dopes ABOUT the dope, and put US/European farmers to work, growing opium poppies commercially and openly. Sure, you're not going to get everyone sober overnight, probably never going to accomplish that, but you're keeping the problem of drug use/abuse within our borders, and not giving money to people that like to shoot up the place as a national pastime, instead you've just got people shooting up, which they're apparently doing ANYway, despite all the vainglorious efforts to the contrary, and driving this country another trillion into the red annually as a byproduct of that. And, if the drug lords were to take their drug money, and buy say, T-bills with it, you have to kind of ask just what kind of global socio-economic self-abuse we're signed up for, here. It'd be kind of a sad circumstance for Americans to end up owing tax payments to these folks on top of everything else, I think...I say that to help make problems in the middle east 'go away', be smart about it, and take away their customer base. Even with the funny hats and machine guns and so forth, they're still businessmen, and importing illegal drugs into western countries appears to be fairly lucrative, and shows no signs of abatement, so....?

Posted by: walkerbert | October 31, 2009 11:26 PM | Report abuse

Clinton can't even think for herself any longer. She parroted Obama's blame-Bush harangue several times in Pakistan. Will this administration ever grow up?

Posted by: judithod | October 31, 2009 11:29 PM | Report abuse

Thank you HRC for pulling the curtain on simmering tensions and disconnects building for years. The problem is that selected leaders in Kabul and Islamabad have no control over their people and they are so ill served that they would celebrate if you send drones to hit their presidential palaces. They don't care about promise of aid because it would never reach them. The death and destruction wrought on them is such that it is a war as you said. So now the ball is in your court.
You are my man even though you wear a dress.

Posted by: Matrix1 | November 1, 2009 12:41 AM | Report abuse

Viking54,

Thankyou for your comments. I agree with the overall gist of that comment. I also believe that Hillary's Comment regarding "Her surprise at Pakistan not being able to find al-qaida" was taken a bit out of context. I happened to see both her interviews with News Anchorpersons and that TownHall meeting at University College Lahore. Every time she came across harsh questions she replied courteously saying, our relationship suffers froma credibility crisis. Both of these countries believe they've gone out of their way to help each other but have somehow always recieved bad press in each other's countries. Pakistan was the frontline ally of US for 40 years in the war against communism, but grudges the fact that every time we had a war with India USA imposed embargoes on us while USSR was arming India to teeth. Likewise the Americans believe they have given billions in aid to Pakistan as well as much sought after weaponry like F-16's and Cobra Gunship Helicopters and in return have never recieved any recognition. Its kinda like one of those marriages where can niether live with each other or live without each other.

So it was in this context Ms. Clinton gave a piece of her mind to Pakistanis. When we were airing all our grudges against America, its only fair that America exposes some of its concerns too. Thats how friendships can be made effective. By coming out and saying in open whats in each others hearts. Im sure the Army people and ISI chief would have told her that its not in Pakistan's interest to keep Al-Qaeda as they are the ones destroying Pakistan these days. Maybe Taliban, but thats whole different topic. Every country needs to safeguard its interests and even americans conduct dialogues with Taliban from time to time.

So yea.....I believe the comment that Hillary made goes along with the overall theme of this trip and as a Pakistani I welcome it as long as we are ready to understand each others concern and go along~!

Posted by: yasseryousufi | November 1, 2009 5:19 AM | Report abuse

Pakistanis would always like to tell everyone that it was USA that created the mess of taliban and that they are in no way related to that. But the real truth was that it was pakistan which brokered the whole deal(you can call them the p!mp, and Pakistan P!mped taliban for its customer USA) now that the US has done the deed of removing soviets off afghanistan US got off bed with the h0 taliban and left both the p!mp pakistan and the h0 for good.
In the whole process pakistan benefited immensely in money(money given by US as a part of the p!mping deal and the commissions that Pakistan was taking without the knowledge of USA from the money which was supposed to be given to the talibs, not only money it was the weapons too, hundreds of stinger missiles were siphoned off from the ones that were to be passed to talibs, and when the time came to do the inventory by the US the paki army blew off its own arms depot so that it need not return the stingers and lots of other weapons systems that should have been given to talibs to fight soviet.
Anyways after the soviets left, the p!mp pakistan wanted to become the owner of the h0 it was controling for the last 10 or so years, so it funded the talibs and send them to occupy the Afghanistan and implement its own islamic form of govt. Not only did they succeed but also were able to create a heaven for all the worst elements of world. That is from where 9-11 plan was hatched with the full knowledge of the ISI which is the intelligence organization of paki army.
cutting the story short, the US attacked the talibs and talibs came running to their mother thats the paki military which duly accepted their own Frankenstein back.
As everyone already knows that pakistan did not have anyother way other than fight along with the US army against talibs, it started doing so, but then the only talibans that the paki army was attacking was the part of talibans that went against the paki army not the ones that were blowing up NATO trucks and convoys in Afghanistan namely the hikmatiyar group, Quetta shura and Rabbani group which was and is still today a friendly to the paki army. paki army wants to use these groups to occupy the afghanistan the moment US leaves the area and till date is not attacking or doing anything against these groups which the paki army believes are a strategic asset. the only group that is being attacked by paki army is the tehrek e taliban or TTP in short.

In short Paki army is doing zero, nada zilch to hep US army in afghanistan and at the same time asking for money. So it was right on the part of Madam Secretary Hillary Clinton to show them the truth. As she said that they need not take the money if they dint want to.

Posted by: DrRaj | November 1, 2009 5:27 AM | Report abuse

P.S: I forgot to mention the main point, during the war of Afghanistan with soviets the talibs were against taking funding and weapons from the "GREAT SATAN" US of A, to which the military dictator Zia Ul haq of pakistan replied, FIRST WE WILL TAKE OUT THE SOVIETS AND THEN WE WOULD TAKE OUT THE AMERICANS.

Posted by: DrRaj | November 1, 2009 5:32 AM | Report abuse

It's very very clear- the GOP is the party of low-information white trash, rich white guys trying to get richer, and a few scattered minorities who are scared of social change. And paranoid, dishonest, insane conspiracy theory lovers. Death panels? Obama is from Kenya! Health care reform is socialism!

These people are so dumb it's funny. Let the White Hood crowd eat their own, they are not capable of seeing that America has moved past their fear-mongering and race-baiting.

Posted by: losthorizon10 | November 1, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Mr. Capehart, you know I like when you get your negro back up!

Posted by: dmls2000 | November 1, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

The biggest myth about the US giving aid to Pakistan that we have heard is, the US gave Pakistan $10 Billion in aid since 911.

Rubbish, 90% of that amount went directly for repayments for Pakistani logistical support, fuel, food, maintenance of equipment, overflights etc etc. There was also payment to Pakistani forces because the US asked Pakistan for some forces on the Afghan border, 70,000 at the US request.

Yes there has been somee aid but the US itself is the worlds largest borrower, so for all you idiots making fun of Pakistans poverty etc, you should know your people are growing drugs like in third world Afghanisatn to survive your economy and that your country the USA is the worlds largest debtor, not exactly a reason to be proud.

The current Kerry Lugar bill comes to Pakistan with very intrusive conditions, and that with a meddlesome India next door, all it will take is one complaint by India and the KL aid can be stopped. So Pakistanis dont really want the aid, its being thrust upon us, dont know why? Again, the US never gives anything without securing something many times back so it is spending $billions in Iraq and Afghanistan while it gets a deal of a lifetime with $7.5 Billion spent over 5 years and getting Pakistan to eliminate Al Qaeda, not a bad deal, the US comes out far ahead. Too bad it did not have an Iraqi army or an Afghani army to do the same or it would have saved a $trillion.

Posted by: obeeone | November 1, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

I dont want my earlier comments to make people believe we did not appreciate Mrs Clintons small efforts at respecting our traditions when she went to a tomb of a saint, when she went with headscraves to the Lahore Mosque, when she patiently listened to tribals and the students, but Americans have to understand we have suffered so much since 911 we wanted someone to hear us in the US, when Pakistani people are taken as a while we dont have a history of being terrorists but because of our warm open welcome society so many people have taken advanatge of it and used it against us. We feel everyone including the US has taken advanatage of us somehow, but when it comes down to it we also realize Americans are a decent people.

I did blow off a little steam becuase the headline of this story was disrespectful, Pakistanis debated directly but respectfully, Hillary gave back in the same manner, firm but respectful so we have a lot to talk about to get rid of our common enemy - Al Qaeda and their goons in the Taliban.

Posted by: obeeone | November 1, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Dear Viking 54, you posted "Look at Japan, in 1945 USA had bombed it back to the stone age and dropped two atomic bombs. The Japanese did not look back and did not feel sorry for themselves and in 1964 the Olympics were in Tokyo."

Let me ask you, when will you Americans get over 911 and stop feeling sorry for yourselves and stop your drones from flying day and night over other nations territory and bomb at will what you feel is a justififed target and instead kill many many innocent civilians alongwith a handful of low level targets?

When will the US get over 911 and move on, you have killed hundreds of thousands in Iraq since 911 when Iraq had nothing to do with 911, you have been and are still killing people in Afghanistan and the tribal areas of Pakistan 8 years after 911 and you want us to get over it like Japan.

When you point at people three fingers point back at you.

America will lose the war in Afghanistan, but without Pakistans support it will lose it faster.

You are only creating more hatred and enmity for your people by killing innocents and acting all arrogant and like outlaws from the old wild west, people in the region may be backwards but they still live under a certain codes and revenge is one of their codes.

Posted by: obeeone | November 1, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

well Obeeeone,
As Madam Secretary Clinton told, pakistan need not take the aid if it does not want to. And if your country feels that US is crushing your country, then come out in open and declare a war.
And one more thing, US CAN WIN THE WAR IN AF-PAK if it targets the talibs inside the pakistani territory. All these days pakistan has been killing civilians who are asking for independence and showing the world that they are actually talibans. Now that pakistani game has been caught, it starts moving the discussion else where.

Posted by: DrRaj | November 1, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

I believe it was a rather gutsy move for Madam Secretary to walk into the lair and ask 'who's zoomin' who?'

Yes, our country is to blame for funding the ISI in Pakistan to build an insurgency (The Taliban) against the Russians back in the 80's.

But this isn't the same Taliban from that era either. And I believe the ISI has a vested interest in seeing the defeat of the US forces in Afghanistan as they did back in the 80's to gain more power for themselves and overthrow what is left of the democracy in Pakistan with a coup.

With no one left to stop it.

The ISI is behind these lies that Secretary of State Clinton called them out on and it's a matter of whether Pakistan wants to do anything about it.

Since they're so dependent on American aid, I not sure they have a choice.

Posted by: helloisanyoneoutthere | November 2, 2009 11:45 PM | Report abuse

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