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Obama: hard on Israel, easy on China

Clearly, President Obama blew his famous cool when Israel announced new apartments in East Jerusalem during a visit by Vice President Biden last week. The U.S. response -- White House advisor David Axelrod called Israel’s move an “affront” and an “insult” -- included some of the harshest official language in recent memory toward a country with which the United States was not actually at war.

However, I’m not sure Israel’s gesture, provocative though it may have been, was even the most offensive thing a foreign government did or said with regard to the Obama administration in the last week. In Beijing Sunday, China’s premier, Wen Jiabao, launched an anti-U.S. tirade that made the president’s objective of economic harmony with Beijing seem even more unattainable than a comprehensive Middle East peace.

Rejecting President Obama’s rather tepid call, delivered just days earlier, for a “market-oriented” Chinese currency policy, Wen accused the U.S. of “trade protectionism,” alleging that Washington wanted to force the Chinese yuan up, and the dollar down, “solely for the purpose of increasing one’s own exports.”

This remark, heavy with consequences for the U.S. economy and American jobs, was not only a direct sneer at the president -- it was an insult to his intelligence, and everyone else’s for that matter. If anyone has been artificially depressing its exchange rate to boost exports, it’s China. As a growing consensus of governments recognizes, a change in China’s policy would benefit not only U.S. exporters but global trade in general.

The Obama administration’s response? Officials look forward to “an open channel of communication...and fostering a good bilateral relationship,” a State Department spokesman told the Wall Street Journal.

By Charles Lane  | March 16, 2010; 2:11 PM ET
Categories:  Lane  | Tags:  Charles Lane  
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Comments

You could lose the last four words of the headline and it would be more accurate.

Posted by: PhilThijou | March 16, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Looks like AIPAC has let it's dogs loose. Including this Chris Lane guy (?) who is he anyways??)

Posted by: RandomGuy | March 16, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Obama is also easy on Iran. One of yesterday's headlines was that Ahmadinejad's government has outlawed the principal opposition party. Why should the Iranians not feel confident when the White House occupant apologizes for President Bush's attempts to spread American values to totalitarian countries. In my view, a US president should extol American values rather than apologize for them, and to seek the friendship of countries, such as Israel, that have similar values.

Recently, it was announced that Sarah Palin is working on a second book that applauds American values and virtues. Obama would do well to read that book when it is published: it will certainly have content that is superior to "The Audacity of Hope."

Posted by: dahutchinson | March 16, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

I completely disagree with this article.

First, you're comparing apples with oranges. You're comparing the difference in economic policy between two countries (China and US) with the "offense" to Vice President Biden by Israel's actions.

Second, you can't compare the US relationship with China to that with Israel. US pays bb of $ in military and other aid every year to Israel and helps the survival of the state of Israel in an area where it is sorrounded by enemies. On the other hand, I don't think that that happens with China. I doubt Israel could have survived and thrived in these last 50 years without the strong support of the biggest power in the world, US. Therefore, Israel should be very respectful to our country, that sometimes, I believe, has mistakenly put Israel's interest before its own.

Finally, US has every right to be angry at Israel, because US troops have sacrificed their blood and treasure to help Israel, i.e., the effect of the removal of Saddam Hussein from power had as its first beneficiary Israel, and let's not forget that this great country paid a high price for doing that.


Posted by: dude1976 | March 16, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Dude, You could say: "Israel hard on United States", but then again the narrative is Israel the victim--they never do anything to others, others do to them. Isn't it about time for Israel to grow up?

Posted by: protagoras | March 16, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

You forgot to mention one small thing, we are subsidizing Israel and China is subsidizing us. So as the saying goes shoot goes downhill and Israel is at the bottom of this food chain. Besides if Israel really does not want peace why shld we keep spending our money and blood working with them.

Posted by: rbprtman23 | March 16, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Where does Washington Post get idiots lie this who write this kind of garbage. I think the writer needs to register as Israeli agent.

Posted by: kevin1231 | March 16, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Obama again admits that Fox news carries a big stick by appearing on Wwdnesday to try and get is bribing health care bill accepted. I love it.

Posted by: farmsnorton | March 16, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

What is clear is that Washington Post journalists and also generally those on all sides of the issue throughout the media don't deal too well with political reality. This particular event is one in a long process. Exactly what was intentional and what happened by chance is unknown. So is eactly who was driving what agenda. Any peace process between the Israelis and the Palestinians is going to involve difficut decisions that make some people on all sides unhappy. The choices to be judged are those at the end of the process. The current action if it is intentional at all is just jockeying for position. Of course, the media attention is always expected as part of the drama. Even after the last act, it probably will be difficult for the media to make judgements. What sticks in my mind from my most substantial role in the protest politics of the 1960's was from the peek event when the leader from my group who had the real street credibility did what I wanted and then apologized to me for doing it.

Posted by: dnjake | March 16, 2010 4:36 PM | Report abuse

Modrama Obama.

Posted by: JAH3 | March 16, 2010 4:37 PM | Report abuse

You can afford to be tough with your debtors; with your creditors, you have to choose your words carefully, you have to obfuscate things, smooth over differences, grovel if necessary.

Next year the US has to borrow upwards of a trillion dollars. And the next year almost that much, and it is going to be an election year!

Posted by: ashrink | March 16, 2010 4:37 PM | Report abuse

"The Obama administration’s response? Officials look forward to “an open channel of communication...and fostering a good bilateral relationship,” a State Department spokesman told the Wall Street Journal."

Well, I guess that says that the access to and price of Middle Eastern crude oil is more important than China's manipulation of foreign trade throught the yuan.

Posted by: captn_ahab | March 16, 2010 5:25 PM | Report abuse

China holds buttloads of our debt and Israel leeches off of us. Of course we're not going to be as sassy to China when we're running sick deficits.

Both countries slapped us over the weekend. I was forwarding that Jiabao article to EVREYONE I knew just furious about the smugness and dishonesty. We really dug ourselves a whole for a quick buck and it's got us on the edge of ruin. We only have about 10-15 years to reverse the trend.....after that China will probably be unchained from our domestic consumer market and it's all over from there.

Posted by: theobserver4 | March 16, 2010 5:27 PM | Report abuse

The difference is arguing with China is like arguing with someone who contends the Earth is flat. Simple things like facts don't have much traction in the conversation.

Posted by: Nymous | March 16, 2010 5:50 PM | Report abuse

It's true, the US has much more in common with Israel than with China. After all, China hasn't invaded anyone, it isn't militarily occupying anyone else's country, it isn't dropping any bombs on anyone, its soldiers aren't killing anyone.

Posted by: kevrobb | March 16, 2010 7:02 PM | Report abuse

Oh, boy, you can make China as punch bag whenever you are in trouble, but the whole world except Americans know USA is the greatest at manipulating itd dollar for its own interest.

Posted by: eastman1 | March 16, 2010 7:08 PM | Report abuse

'Wen accused the U.S. of “trade protectionism.”'

Seen the headline on today's Post homepage?

"European nations allege U.S. protectionism"

Posted by: kevrobb | March 16, 2010 7:10 PM | Report abuse

Does it concern the WAPO that readers can accurately dismiss articles as infantile crap just by the name of the author? Actual reading not required.

Posted by: JoeBewildered | March 16, 2010 7:21 PM | Report abuse

"hard on Israel, easy on China"

Seeing as how the POTUS is supposed to support what is in America's (not Israel's)
best interest -
sounds like he's a smart guy.

I would cut off all aid / funding and military support to Israel until all settlement construction stops -
and Israel's borders are returned to pre '67 locations.

Posted by: daveque | March 16, 2010 7:46 PM | Report abuse

Amen lobby in congress and media strike back. Its amazing how a handful of "thought" leaders can dominate the narrative. Whats really interesting is that judging by the talkbacks this is not working anywhere except in DC

Posted by: Amazed2 | March 16, 2010 8:01 PM | Report abuse

Seems like the Wapo is tired of having their clock cleaned byt the neocon Times and is trying to out neocon them. Charles Lane is a hit man hack from The New Republic like the rest of Hiatt's new chums...all one has to do is google Charles "Chuck" Lane and Israel to see his track record. The internet shines the light on these forces of darkness

Posted by: Amazed2 | March 16, 2010 8:08 PM | Report abuse

Never are the neocons more annoying than when they jump all over the US for punishing Israel.... when we never punish Israel.

They are one-trick ponies that most of us are, frankly, sick of.

Imagine if we ever DID punish Israel. What could the neocons do? They have nothing left in their arsenal.

Posted by: steveboyington | March 16, 2010 8:46 PM | Report abuse

When Dixie Chicks made bad comment about our former president W, Bush, right wing were crazy , now Israel insulted our VP This people justifies or looks otherwise .this is outrageous. Un-American., we cannot tolerate

Posted by: LT_ATGRDNSTT | March 16, 2010 8:48 PM | Report abuse

Is the writer of this blog Jewish?

If so, then he's probably a supporter of the Zionist enterprise and has every incentive to spin Mideast news in Israel's favor.

Do you see any non-Jewish, non-Neocon journalists jumping on the "It's Obama's fault!" bandwagon regarding the Biden visit?

Zionist desperation can be pretty funny sometimes. It's bad news for our country that these Zionists have so much influence in our media and government.

Posted by: Paul_Atredies | March 16, 2010 9:12 PM | Report abuse

If Israel had lent us over $1 trillion instead of taking over $100 billion in aid over the past 60 years, combined with security guarantees, I suspect you'd find that the administration taking a different tact.

Having said that, sooner or later the U.S. will need to address China's currency manipulation. The same is true of Israel's settlement activity. These are mutually exclusive questions.

So far the only action against the settlement activities has been harsh words -- nothing more. The last president to actually lay down the law was George H.W. It's time for the U.S. president to establish red-lines again.

Netanyahu said it best: Israel is an independent state acting with its own interest in mind.

Well, the U.S. is an independent nation with its own interests too.

Thank you Bibi for clarifying the underlying reality of the Israeli and U.S. relationship.

There are many areas of common interest, but, as two independent nations, there are times when our national interests will come into conflict. This is something that NeoConservatives tend to forget.

Posted by: JPRS | March 16, 2010 9:43 PM | Report abuse

I never cease to be amazed by the vitriole directed to Lane here. It's like he's the harbinger of the obvious, and yet ya'll people think he's the devil. This is so obviously accurate.

Posted by: CaughtInAMosh | March 16, 2010 10:02 PM | Report abuse

Charles Lane seems completely unaware that China (1)does not flaunt the practice of apartheid, and (2)does not insult the Vice President of the United States while he is making an official visit to China. Poor Mr. Lane (and his stupidly ignorant employers at the Post's editorial offices)know nothing of the protocol of international diplomacy and demean their alleged journalistic profession by acting (and writing) as if their words were the result of either training or experience, of which they (both Lane and the editorial staff)are sadly lacking. The unfortunate decline in the professional standards of a once great newspaper is equaled only by the incompetence of many of its current employees of whom Mr. Lane is a paragon.

Posted by: gargoyle22 | March 16, 2010 10:30 PM | Report abuse

I won't insult the brave, principled and enterprising citizens of Israel by calling them a "client state" of the USA, but clearly there is a greater power imbalance in Israel's relation to the United States than there is in China's relation to the United States.

The United States provides many forms of direct assistance to Israel, none to China. Israel provides no forms of direct assistance to the USA (leaving aside possible valuable intelligence sharing).

Bottom line, it's probably prudent for an American president to treat Israel one way when its actions threaten vital US interests, and to treat China a different way when it does the same thing.

In the case of Israel, we've got every right to say "Look, I've been sticking my neck out for you lo these past 50 years, and twice now in my first term your hard line on settlement policy has made it almost impossible for me to get along with my other friends."

"And this time, it was as though you deliberately stuck a thumb in my eye in order to cater to your right wing. Enough is enough."

Posted by: douglaslbarber | March 16, 2010 10:53 PM | Report abuse

We've got to be easy on China so they'll lend us money to give to Israel...

Posted by: chucka1 | March 16, 2010 10:56 PM | Report abuse

Should be harder on Israel. It's time to let them take care of themselves. As for China, we're not in a war with terrorists because of them.

Posted by: jryan758 | March 16, 2010 11:04 PM | Report abuse

I wish Mr. Lane actually demonstrated a talent for independent thinking, instead of knee-jerk Republican party lines.

As to Israel, the settlement announcement demonstrated either that Netanyahu is too beholden to right-wing domestic forces to be a reliable partner, or deliberately entered into a "moratorium" in bad faith.

China is obviously out of line. But it is merely repeating the same position it took throughout the GW Bush administration, which I presume, from the tenor of his comments, Mr. Lane thinks was just wonderfully manly in its conduct of foreign relations. Regardless, Bush's fruitless tactics weren't useful, so perhaps it's time to try another approach.

The other person out of line is Lane himself, who apparently doesn't have much of a grasp of international relations.

Posted by: thmas | March 16, 2010 11:16 PM | Report abuse

For all of Obama's decrying connections to the Muslim religion, he has certainly taken a Muslim stance on Israel. Not good, not good for America at all.

As President, Obama has not even stepped foot inside Israel. Hardly a cordial presentation of himself to our closest and most important ally in that area.

And to think that Obama strutted about the world apologizing for Bush... what a total embarrassment...

Posted by: prossers7 | March 16, 2010 11:25 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to make one comment about people who regard Israel as an apartheid society.

The English and Dutch settlers in Africa who established apartheid societies did so on the basis of a belief that their race was superior. They were not fleeing crimes against their race in their most recent homes.

Zionists left Europe after a 1500 year history of violent discrimination, disposession, and finally industrialized mass murder directed at their ethnic minority.

They sought to establish a safe haven for themselves in their ancestral homeland, not because they believed they were superior to the people whose land they offered to buy, but because they sought a refuge from a tiresome history of abuse in Christian Europe.

Humans invented language and we can make words mean whatever we want them to mean if we get enough people to agree to our definitions. To call a white Afrikaaner and a Jewish Zionist by the same name, though, calling them advocates of "apartheid", serves no good purpose that I can see.

Posted by: douglaslbarber | March 16, 2010 11:40 PM | Report abuse

Comparing Obama's being "hard" on Israel and "easy" on China, especially in using the East Jerusalem housing development and the trade and currency dispute with China, is one of the most ridiculous comparison. China and the US have different national objectives and they certainly have the right to rebuke whatever Obama says. Israel, on the other hand, depends on the US to the tunes of tens of billions of dollars in aid and deliberately, even overtly, sabotaging the US Middle East policy that has global impacts, from defusing the tension in the Middle East to the fight against extreme Muslim element and terrorism worldwide.

Posted by: steviana | March 17, 2010 12:01 AM | Report abuse

The most crucial difference between the two nations(Israel and China) my friend, is this: China never tried to sell itself as a beacon of democracy and civilisation. There never has been any pretention to the effect.

Israel on the other hand, has always prided itself to be the 'only' real democracy in the Middle East. Some democracy it has turned out to be, if you know what I mean. A democracy which overtly gives a middle finger to the UN which represent the whole world, not just friends of Israel. By giving their middle finger to the man who represents the voice of the whole globe, basically Israel told the world to f*** off recently. Thank you for that Israel.

If you randomly select any person off any street of any random place in the world, except for the overly- lenient-to-Israel Western nations, and ask him/her who the bigger oppressor of the two(namely Isral and China), the simple answer will be Israel. Israel is now synonimous with the concept of legalised 'oppression' in the minds of the global citizens. And this is coming from a person who has no connection whatsoever with either the Palestinians or the Israelis.

Posted by: thisworld | March 17, 2010 6:35 AM | Report abuse

Also, Israel must now be noted for its flagrant disregard for the UN, along with Iran and North Korea. These are the only three nations I can think of at this stage in this regard. They should form a new axis of evil, using the cowboy's parlance.

Personally, I don't see much difference between Israel who kills its neighbours and seizes their land by force, in the name of its own citizens and North Korea who just oppresses its own citizens. At least North Korea is honest enough not to sugar-coat its own malicious deeds. You know the leaders of North Korea are evil. It is black and white simple.

Israel on the other hand has so many friends and connections in high places in many countries whose only main function, it seems, is to apologize for the massacres, murders, theft of land and political assasnations Israel commits in the name of self-defence. Apologigers for Israel may bury their heads in the sand and deny it all but the rest of the world can see and hear plainly what Israel is doing to its weaker and marginalised neighbours. The word self-defence seems applicable to them and not to Israel who owns nuclear weapons. In that sense, Obama is doing a noble job, albeit a very difficult one.

Posted by: thisworld | March 17, 2010 6:50 AM | Report abuse

Yonkers, New York
17 March 2010

Obama hard on Israel?

Give me a break! It is Israel in fact which is hard on the U.S.

Where were you when VP Joseph Biden, on his recent visit to Israel, got slapped on the face by the ill-timed and ill-advised public announcement by the Israeli minister of the interior that Israel was going to build 1,600 more of those illegal settlements on Palestinian land?

The Israeli government must have known beforehand that Mr. Biden's purpose for going to Israel was to get the peace process between Israelis and Palestinians moving forward.

Those settlements precisely are a major roadblock to the peace process moving forward. Was that announcement of 1,600 more settlemnts not in the nature of a slap on the U.S. as well as a sure sign of defiance and intransigence on the part of the Israel government led by prime minister Benyamn Netanyahu>

Mariano Patalinjug

Posted by: MPatalinjug | March 17, 2010 6:57 AM | Report abuse

'Hard on Israel, Easy on China'.

Let's see: We are Israel's sole source of support and financier. And Israel just pulled another in a long string of moves that we oppose. After las year they figuratively slapped Obama on the face for daring to talk to Arabs. Sorry, but the dressing down that Israel just ot should be just the start. The next step should be witholding the money and spare parts.

As for Easy on China: I hate to point out that China is not our cliemt state but is instead a major financier of our debt. In a few years we will be grateful if the Chinese are easy on us in the terms they give for buying our bonds. I am not saying that it will be good or it should happen; just that it is the path we are on!

Posted by: AMviennaVA | March 17, 2010 8:28 AM | Report abuse

Is today Israeli apologist day? Kagan, also. Sheesh.

Posted by: jckdoors | March 17, 2010 9:27 AM | Report abuse

and this comes as a surprise? china practically owns the US. the comparison is nonsensical, really.
israel has always behaved this way; they just made half-hearted attempts to hide it more. this little subversive cat and mouse game between israel and the rest of the free world should be put to an end immediately.
for national security reasons, is it good to have a friend in the region? yes, but israel is NOT a friend as much as we'd like them to be and as much as the jewish and evangelical christian lobbys in the US would like.
the state of israel should not exist. the world made a huge mistake in 1948. can't we just admit it? there will never be a two state solution because israel will never allow it no matter what they say publicly.
why can't iran have a nuclear weapon? we have them, russia has them, pakistan, india, israel etc....so why not iran? then we'll see how arrogant israel is when they are really faced with an existential threat.
go ahead, build new settlements- but please stop supporting this sorry excuse for a nation and let them follow their own zealotry to their demise.

Posted by: thebigfoist | March 17, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse

I am suprised to find that so many readers are unaware that Israel actually finances billions of dollars of US debt as a result of the economic crisis in the US (While Israel has been unaffected), I wonder how that could be?

Posted by: aadlersberg | March 17, 2010 10:47 AM | Report abuse

China and Japan may own the most U.S. debt but they hardly subsidize us. The opposite is true easily proven by the balance of trade difference. We have survived without their coin (albeit by printing money in April), their economies would fail without U.S. imports, something we have yet to leverage. The untraded Yuan is manipulated downward for export payments, upward for import payments and should no longer be tolerated.

Posted by: jameschirico | March 17, 2010 11:58 AM | Report abuse

A complete waste of time and space.
Not even a talking head!

Posted by: gany1 | March 17, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Isn't it odd! Obama doesn't want to meddle in Iran with the holocaust deniers, while they race for nuclear weapons and gun down their citizens like Neda in the streets. He's equally weak with China actually letting them bully him into refusing a meeting with the Dalai Lama which has likely made them think he can be easily bullied the rest of his Presidency. Yet he attacks Israel like they are our worst enemy in the world because they are going to build some apartment building in the Jewish part of East Jerusalem. Obama has never been a friend to Israel, but played the game to get money, support, and votes from Jewish Americans. He's taking every opportunity to weaken support for Israel with the American people. Anyone who supports Israel and wants to see that nation suvive and prosper had better wake up and wise up to what Obama is doing. Before its too late!!!!

Posted by: valwayne | March 17, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

You forgot to mention; Obama is also easy on Iran,Syria,the House of Saud,Castro,Ortega,Chavez and pretty much every other crackpot dictatorship that finds favor with the Bill Ayers - Black Liberation peanut gallery.Not so much easy, actually, as sympathetic with their hatred of Western culture and individual freedom.The affirmative action president continues to diminish the Office.This and his infatuation with thugs are his only real consistencies

Posted by: diana11777 | March 17, 2010 4:36 PM | Report abuse


This article is total B.S. Obama's white House Chief of Staff, Rahm Emmanuel, served in the Israeli army and is a dual citizen with Israel. And Obama knelt before the AIPAC alter and kissed AIPAC's ring just like all the rest of U.S. Presidents.

Posted by: graymond323 | March 17, 2010 5:33 PM | Report abuse

There is, I am told, a Talmudic saying: those who are compassionate to the cruel will be cruel to the compassionate. That sums up Obama's foreign "policy".

Posted by: nbmazelis | March 18, 2010 12:00 AM | Report abuse

Jeez -- correcting all the falsehoods in these talkbacks would take about a year. So here's a small start -- Rahm Emmanuel never served in the Israeli army. He volunteered for the equivalent of a summer camp in which he helped out at an army base (like sweeping up, KP, etc.).

Israel does not depend on US aid -- it is a net exporter of capital, and is second only to the US in the number of startups. It is a high tech superpower, and a great success story. US aid was important in the past and all Israelis appreciate it and appreciate US support, but the aid is more symbolic now than necessary. Netanyahu has spoken in favor of phasing it out.

Should also point out that the US didn't give Israel any substantial aid until after 1970, and that Israel won in 1967 and before that without US weapons -- they had French jets and British tanks. So to portray Israel as dependent on the US for its survival is baloney.

Moreover, our aid to Western Europe each year far exceeds what we've give to Israel annually since 1970. Our NATO committment costs about one third of our ordinary defense budget, roughly 100 billion a year, to subsidize the defense of our major economic competitors. (Airbus taking jobs from Boeing, etc.) And don't forget what we spend to defend Japan and South Korea, also major competitors. Plus of course, with Europe and Japan and Korea, our troops are there, in harm's way. Not so with Israel. In comparison, the aid to Israel is a relative pittance.

As for Israel's value as an ally, look what happened when we lost our ally the Shah. Iran has been a huge problem for us ever since, and without the Shah deterring Iraq, we ended up fighting the Iraqis twice. We also had to send our fleet into the Persian gulf to clear out Iranian mines, etc.

Thanks to Israel's presence as an American ally we've had to do exactly nothing in the Med -- no US troops to prop up Jordan, no US troops to prop up Egypt, etc. That's the value of a regional policeman allied to the US.

So to all the Israel bashers -- bash away, but get your facts straight. If you can't or won't, then we'll know that your bashing is just a pretext for something else.

Posted by: alexs1 | March 18, 2010 2:09 AM | Report abuse

As Alexs1 makes clear, US aid to Israel is around 1% of the Israeli GDP. No leverage here at all. In return for this, Israel gets asked to please NOT retaliate for Iraqi SCUDs during the 1991 Gulf war. Once the Israelis get the impression that the US is not on their side they might just take important matters into their own hands. Obama,like many clueless commentators here, seems to not understand that the Israelis are concerned about national survival. As opposed to lefty-righty, AIPAC talking points. The US needs to have leverage on Israel and this can only be obtained by giving them the sense that we are on their side. Without that, goodbye Palestinian peace process and hello confrontation with Iran. It's just not that complicated. By beating up on Israel, Obama gives the Palestinians exactly want they want,viz.,sit back and wait for more.

Posted by: melk2 | March 18, 2010 7:28 AM | Report abuse

Israel has a GDP of $185 and a ton of companies on the Nasdaq, I seriously doubt they are completely subsidized by US taxpayers.

The left would support a Nazi state if it were small and weak.

Posted by: randy7676 | March 18, 2010 9:31 AM | Report abuse

You Israeli patriot, what is wrong with that?

Posted by: Doubter1 | March 19, 2010 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Jewish Americans are sooo predictable!

Posted by: Doubter1 | March 19, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

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