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Is the 'mosque' controversy Obama's fault?

President Obama’s positioning on the “Ground Zero” “mosque” controversy was inartful. But it wasn’t nearly as clumsy as Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell’s abortive attempt over the weekend to blame the dispute on the president.

Typically, these kinds of decisions are made by local officials. What's been different about this one is you have the president of the United States weighing in on this issue on -- actually on each side of the issue within 24 hours, which has helped stimulate a great national debate. ... It made it a much bigger issue when the president of the United States decides to weigh in on a local, basically, zoning decision made -- or site selection decision made by local officials in most communities in America....

The president's been ignoring public opinion all year long on a variety of things. People were not in favor of the stimulus bill, they were not in favor of the health-care bill, they're certainly not in favor of the spending, the debt, the Washington takeovers, and they're not in favor of the tax increases that they have in mind in September.

Huh? Planting the cart miles ahead of the horse, McConnell makes it seem as though Obama proactively and inappropriately sought to involve himself in an otherwise mundane local zoning question, thereby dragging it into public view -- and for reasons McConnell doesn’t explain or even imply. In fact, by the time the president spoke about the controversy, it had been heating up for months and had just reached a rolling boil. Sarah Palin and Newt Gringrich were exploiting it for political gain. Post columnist Charles Krauthammer and Post blogger Greg Sargent were already having it out. Protests were on television. The debate was national.

McConnell’s is a defense by attack and omission: Conservatives weren’t responsible for encouraging this minaret-inspired mayhem. If only Obama de la Mancha could have focused on what really matters, such as not reforming health care.

Of course, if the president hadn’t said anything, other critics -- though perhaps not McConnell -- would have wondered publicly why he remained aloof, once again demonstrating that he is "out of touch." I'm sure some would have even blamed it on his vacation.

By Stephen Stromberg  | August 23, 2010; 3:05 PM ET
Categories:  Stromberg  | Tags:  Stephen Stromberg  
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Comments

It's almost a waste of time to parse Mitch McConnell's words for accuracy or honesty. When has he ever offered anything intelligent or even remotely constructive since Pres. Obama took office?

He and his Republican colleagues in the Senate have made a mockery of our democracy and have lied and misrepresented Pres. Obama's positions repeatedly and relentlessly (see Charles Grassley and pulling the plug on Grandma), and it would be a shame if such dishonesty and obstructionism is rewarded in any way in November.

Posted by: sambam | August 23, 2010 5:51 PM | Report abuse

The president did exactly what a responsible president should do in this type of situation: 1. Remind those that would take extreme positions that basic freedoms belong to all of us - even unpopular groups and 2: make it clear that it is inappropriate for him to comment on the merits of the case since that type of case(zoning)was clearly a local matter.

I found his response to be responsible. To do more than that would be irresponsible and disrespectful of local leaders who are trying to do their job. His comments should not even be controversial.

Mr McConnell’s attempts to use Mr. Obama's comments for political gain, however, was less than the minimum level of responsibility one should expect in a elected official. Clearly, there is a time put politics aside and govern the country in a manner consistent with the Consitution.

Posted by: DrS1 | August 23, 2010 9:36 PM | Report abuse

Dear Mr. Barack Hussein Obama:

Let me make *this* clear:

I understand you have welcomed and encouraged an Islamic Mosque to be built near Ground Zero in New York. Imagine this: Pretend you were born a few years earlier. Pretend you loved Sasha and Malia just as much then as you do now. Imagine you send them to college - pretend they both excel in the world of finance, graduate college with high honors, and take jobs in New York. Say, for example, with the Bank of America located within the Twin Towers. Imagine you get a phone call on a nice Tuesday September morning while you're laying back on vacation *again* somewhere sipping your coffee, from Sasha crying and screaming in terror, pleading "Daddy, please help us - there's smoke everywhere....people are screaming....I can't see.....Daddy, I can't breathe.....I can't find Malia......"

Imagine, Barack, that as she's crying to you over her phone you see a horror in front of you on your TV set like you've never seen in your life - American Airlines Flight 11 just plowed through the skyscraper where both your Daughters work - then another jetliner shortly thereafter - the phone goes dead, and you see on the TV screen a surreal video image of what looks like your child who has just leaped 100 stories from the inferno of what is left of the World Trade Center, just as many of our loved ones had, to their deaths if they were not already instantly destroyed by the initial fireball and melting steel from one of the exploding airliners turned missles in the name of Allah .

You cannot locate your Wife, friends and coworkers - all the phones and Internet in NY are dead - all bridges are closed - no one can get in or out - the skies have all gone eerily quiet with the exception of an occasional military jet fighter - you pray Malia and Michelle are alive and a spark of hope flickers when you see hundreds of heroic firefighters and policemen on TV rushing to the scene into what's left of the towers - and right before your very eyes, Barack, you see everything crumble -- with EVERYONE inside -- to the ground in a puff of surreal smoke, screams, horror and dust in a matter of seconds, leveling them all to nothing but charred ashes and soot in a flattened pile of rubble -- our children, our families, our friends, first responders, firefighters, police, rescue workers and loved ones while the Muslims danced for joy in the streets.

Got Mosque? Karma is our friend and we're not afraid to use it.

Posted by: LadronesMentira | August 23, 2010 9:48 PM | Report abuse

Excuse me Stromboli. This was a local issue, a zoning issue and nothing more, no matter what the super-markert media said; It was that is until the President of the United States, for reasons known only to him, except possibly related to his lack of a father, his alienation from his country, and his knee-jerk conviction that white America is always imperialist and wrong, elected to take it to the national and international level BY MAKING A BLOODY SPEECH ABOUT IT.

Why did he do it? It wasn't his business? Same as the Harvard professor arrest wasn't his beat. So it is his responsibiility....it is his tin ear as a politician...and being a politician is an art not a science...which cause this. This whole bruhaha is HIS. mess..

Face it iceberg...he wanted it, he bought it, he made the speech, he internationalized it, he'll live with the consequence....and unfortunately so will America.

Posted by: wjc1va | August 23, 2010 10:17 PM | Report abuse

One of our basic freedoms is the freedom of speech.... AS IN THE FREEDOM TO SPEAK OUT AGAINST A MOSQUE THAT ONLY DIVIDES NOT HEALS.

Will someone please explain to me how a healing process begins by offending millions of people.

Douglas

Posted by: douglascatch22 | August 23, 2010 10:33 PM | Report abuse

To those bigots who would not allow the mosque to be built, let them consider the names of the some of the estimated 300 Pakistani muslims killed in the 9-11 attacks on the World Trade Center:

Tariq Amanullah
Taimoor Khan
Muhammad Salman Hamdani
Ehtesham U Raja
Muhammad S Chaudhry
Raza Mujtaba
Yousuf Saad
Samad Afridi
Badruddin Lakhani
Naveed Rahman
Qamar Malik
Umar Namoos
Assad Samir
Arsalan Khan Khakwani
Ayub Khan
Qasim Ali Khan
Talat Hussain
Shahzad Hussain Khan
Ataullah Khan
Mian Muhammad
Asim Khan
Ahmad Ali
Umar Ahmed
Jameel Hussain
Jameel Swati
Azam Ahsan
W Waheed
Mujeeb Qazi
Saleemullah Farooqui
Shabi Ahmed
Muhammad Abbas
Ahmad Ahsan
Amjad
Muhammad Haleem
Jumma Al Haque
Sultan Khan
Ahmed Noor
Kazi Ahmed
Shamsuddin Ahmed
Mubarak Ahmed
Syed Haq
Qazi Ahmed
Muhammad Shahjehan
Khalid Shahid

Taranum Rahim
Humayra Rahim
Amena Rasool
Sanoober Syed
Sarah Khan
Yasmeen Jamal
Zahida Khan
Yasmin Khan
Amena Aziz

Enough said.


Posted by: kgblankinship | August 23, 2010 10:47 PM | Report abuse

LadronesMentira
Thank you for saying what needs to be said.
It is not those who oppose the Islamic victory center who are at fault.
It is those who would build it with no compassion for all that human suffering who are indecent and inhuman. (No I didn't leave off the "e" accidentally.

Posted by: miriamac2001 | August 24, 2010 12:20 AM | Report abuse

kbblandinship: Are you going to talk now about the thousands killed by your Punjabi zealots in Pakistan, about the assaults on Afghans all over their country paid-for by your intelligence services? About the attempts to create nuclear war by your buddies Lashkar-I Tayyaba by attacking the Indian Parliament and a peaceful Bombay hotel? Are you going to talk about Punjabis and Pakistanis trying to set off car bombs in Times Square? about attacking European metros? Murdering anyone who offends your religion (Danish cartoonwalla?).

Pleesse..you must think we are idiots...you do think we are hand-wringing idiots.. Actually Sir you do. You Sir will get a very rude awakening and you will go down to the fires of hell you so desire. Sir..get a grip and take a look at what you are doing..

Posted by: wjc1va | August 24, 2010 1:04 AM | Report abuse

@wjc1va:

These are the names of innocents murdered by the 9-11 highjackers. Although the likes of a necrophiliac like bin Ladin would say that they were martyrs in the cause, they were simply innocents coming to work that morning, unaware about what was about to happen to them. Few if any would have probably volunteered to be martyred.

We can't let bin Laden speak for the Islamic world any more than we should consider Hitler as having spoken for Germany. However, unlike Hitler, most muslims did not and do not support Al Qaeda. To single the muslims out, to put them all in bin Laden's camp, is bigotry.

Let them build the mosque ! Let Freedom of Religion ring ! And to hell with the bigots !


Posted by: kgblankinship | August 24, 2010 2:08 AM | Report abuse

Of course the mosque controversy is not Obama's fault. This is actually a supremely ludicrous question, but in some ways not too surprising given the sleazy republican tactics (Remember, just tell the biggest lie possible, over and over, and people will believe it.)

Any remotely intelligent person can easily see what's going on. It is the republicans' fault. They are using the mosque as a wedge issue for the upcoming elections, trying to split the democrats and turn the country more hateful toward Islam (a hatred that they will gladly exploit). Republicans have played this fear and hate game many times before: communists, terrorists, gay marriage, immigration, socialist takeovers, etc. etc. Now they are trying to extend it to a new level: hatred of an entire religion.

As usual, Fox "news", the republican propaganda network, is leading the charge, with both politicians (Gingrich. Palin, McConnell, etc.) and pundits (Geller, Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck) fanning the flames with the usual lies. No republican leaders have stood up against these lies.

Trying to pin this on Obama is frankly preposterous. This is almost entirely the fault of the republicans and their propaganda organs.

Posted by: dougd1 | August 24, 2010 3:43 AM | Report abuse

It's GOP extremists who're doing the most whining.

For him to pretend it was an issue caused by anything the Executive did is ludicrous. This is a good example of a political leader lying blatantly. McConnell lied, and it's good it wasn't during the discharge of his official duties, because he could get called out on it there in a whole different way than in the press.

Posted by: Nymous | August 24, 2010 4:00 AM | Report abuse

Here is what's happening, boys and girls: In case it slipped your mind, there is an election coming up in November. In the last few months the Republican party has been in the process of imploding (and it's been so much fun to watch, too!) As was predicted on this site over a year ago, the so-called "Tea Party" would end up being an albatross around their collective neck. Sure enough, the mindless extremism of these nitwits is starting to scare the hell out of that mysterious segment of the electorate who describe themselves as "moderate". What to do? Find an issue - any issue - that will distract the people. After a desperate search that must have taken them weeks, they finally found that issue last week in - of all places - lower Manhattan.

THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING! THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING!

They grabbed this non-issue and ran with it. Then the corporate media (you shouldn't be surprised) decided to play this story to death like Hotel California and Stairway To Heaven. And it worked like a charm. Very few of us are at present thinking about the utter mess that six years of Republican control of the executive and legislative branches of our government made of this country. Instead we're wasting precious time thinking about a non-issue. Just for a moment let's put our minds on the things that really matter:

The economy
War in Afghanistan
Massive unemployment
A multi-trillion dollar debt
The plunder of our national treasure by Wall Street
An environmental catastrophe in the Gulf of Mexico....

....and what the hell are we talking about? A non-existent "mosque".

http:www.tomdegan.blogspot.com

Tom Degan

Posted by: tomdeganfrontiernetnet | August 24, 2010 6:10 AM | Report abuse

I think it is a hoot that all these liberals insist critics of the mosque are bigots, and all Republicans are being uplifted by xenophobic angry mobs. Yet they insist not a single element of Islamic teaching is responsible for 9/11, or the actual perpetrators are "representative" of Muslims. I guess only evil exists in America, and only in the heart of conservatives.

Posted by: JohnnyGee | August 24, 2010 6:26 AM | Report abuse

It seems that the more deeply we entrench ourselves in the Middle East the more our own domestic politics come to resemble the tribalism of that troubled region.

McConnell is an empty suit who is once again merely mouthing the talking points and frames given to him by the GOP's evil word wizard Frank Luntz.

On the Sean Hannity program the other night, Luntz assembled a focus group of about 30 people whom he asked: has the mosque issue made the country more united or divided. All hands shot up at once: the issue had divided the country. So, why, asked Luntz with a wounded tone in his voice, would the President have deliberately decided to divide the country on this issue.

The scurrilous assumption behind Luntz's question of course is that if Fox News and the conservative noise machine is able to whip up America's white majority into an hysterical lather about some minority group, then the white majority OUGHT to be allowed to put that racial, religious or political minority group in their place and any effort to stop them -- say by a President trying to remind us of the values of tolerance that made this nation great -- is immediately defined as "divisive."

It's the very same argument used by the KKK and other white supremacist groups when they attack civil rights groups for "promoting race hatred" when those organizations expose the racist activities of hate groups like the KKK. The KKK's twisted logic all makes sense if you assume that white Christians are indeed the superior race who ought to naturally be allowed to dominate others. So, any effort to stop them is just stirring up trouble.

Posted by: TedFrier | August 24, 2010 6:43 AM | Report abuse

The mosque controversy is only a side show to divert attention away from the oil catastrophe, the health care debacle and the crumbling economy.

Looked at from this light, the mosque controversey was and is an amazing success for the President.

He loves to pontificate anyway and what better subject could he come up with than religious tolerance.

Of course, he didn't factor in Murphy's Law: "If anything can go wrong, it will." He unintentionally unleashed a firestorm of discontent over the lack of his "American" sensibilities.

Posted by: alance | August 24, 2010 6:54 AM | Report abuse

LadronesMentira,

The Nazi Holocaust* was much larger in scope than 9/11, and involved many more people in its prosecution. If we are going to start scapegoating entire religions, then no one is going to come out looking good.


*Newt Gingrich already went there...

Posted by: jondnorton | August 24, 2010 7:02 AM | Report abuse

It is really just shocking about how the Comrade Obozo apologists try to stand up for their guy over the mosque issue. Does someone have to suggest something absurd to make the point of how offensive having the mosque next to ground zero is, like erecting a shrine to James Earl Ray next to the Lorraine Hotel in Memphis, or perhaps build a monument to the KKK next to the King center in Atlanta. I, for one, would find either of these absurdities to be offensive, and would object to them being built, which is why I don't want that mosque to be built next to ground zero. I have no objection to the mosque being built, but not there.

Posted by: A1965bigdog | August 24, 2010 7:07 AM | Report abuse

kgblankinship --

"Enough said"? You didn't say anything. You listed about 20 names out of nearly 3000 but didn't mention that Muslims kill Muslims in the name of Islam on a regular basis.

Islam needs to be banned in the West until such time as it can be eradicated from the world, as we did with small pox. Islam is dysfunctional mass delusion and an international men's club that subjugates women and mistreats animals. Islam needs to go.

Posted by: RedderThanEver | August 24, 2010 7:14 AM | Report abuse

America is not a punching bag. Our freedoms have been fought and died for countless times. Respect for our Nation is something we should expect from others. The freedom to build this mosque has never been in question. Whether or not it is appropriate is the question. Those who oppose it have grounds for doing so. We as a Nation are always supposed to be sensitive to others. It is time that others be sensitive to us.

Posted by: bobbo2 | August 24, 2010 7:41 AM | Report abuse

The issue is not local zoning. The issue is whether Muslims are entitled to equal protection under the constitution. That issue is certainly one that the President has reason to comment on.

Posted by: dnjake | August 24, 2010 7:42 AM | Report abuse

The Media will be the death of America and American values for the sake of a buck.

If there's not a conflict then they make one up.

And to create an American/Islamic conflict even even better fodder than America/Russia or America/Turkey or America/Iran conflicts at this moment as they have little outrage mojo.

WHo can't see that??? oh - wait a minute...

Posted by: whsmhrth1 | August 24, 2010 8:09 AM | Report abuse

Um....What exactly did McConnell say that was inaccurate?

He was spot on. And alot of Americans agree with him.

Posted by: thinker16 | August 24, 2010 8:15 AM | Report abuse

Keep trying... sooner or later you'll figure out how to make it all George Bush's fault.

Posted by: colonel5 | August 24, 2010 8:18 AM | Report abuse

kgblankenship, what's your point? The devils who killed almost 3,000 people in the attack were not Pakistanis -they were radical Muslims who were allowed to come to America through our world-class stupid immigration laws! America is a Christian nation -not a Muslim hangout, nor a safe haven for any other non-Christians. Indeed, ALL people are permitted to PRACTICE their religion here -they are NOT permitted to force their murderous beliefs upon the rest of us! That mosque -if built- would be a highly visible monument to murderers and to the lunatics who allow such laxity in our immigration laws! I am in favor of ending ALL immigration for at least 25 years, and if you cannot live in this Christian nation, GET OUT! According to King James Scripture, one sin is as bad as any other: lies are just like murder in the eyes of Almighty God. And if you hate America and its freedoms and it's nation of laws -as you obviously do- go somewhere else, preferably far away!

Posted by: churchlionjudah | August 24, 2010 9:07 AM | Report abuse


" In fact, by the time the president spoke about the controversy, it had been heating up for months and had just reached a rolling boil. Sarah Palin and Newt Gringrich were exploiting it for political gain."

_________________________________

While those two may have been exploiting the issue, they do not have the power to really bring the issue into prominence the way a sitting president does. In fact, neither holds political office. It was unwise for President Obama to raise the issue to national prominence. And, he has no regrets about it.

He is no friend to his political allies in Congress.

Posted by: edbyronadams | August 24, 2010 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Agree w/you. Repubs have been flogging this since 12/09. I doubt the prez would have said anything if the repubs were not protesting EXISTING mosques in CA, CT, TN, & TX. Are they too close to Ground Zero or is this Islamiphobia? I think the latter. Proof it is all about scaring "white people", the repubs voters.

Posted by: carolerae48 | August 24, 2010 9:29 AM | Report abuse

As i read the Mconnell quote I thought "wow, a sensible article". Then I saw it was being ridiculed. What is inaccurate about the quote? Obama cares not a whit about what Americans care about . It's all about Obama! laser focus on jobs, Hah! Too many lies to keep track of anymore.

Posted by: snorton48 | August 24, 2010 9:29 AM | Report abuse

The President spoke out of one side of his mouth to the Arabs on Friday and the very next day spoke out of the other side of his mouth to Christians. He is a hypocrite because when he spoke at Georgetown University, a Jesuit college, he demanded that the cross behind him be covered. (Where's the right to practice religion as he claims there?) He only wants the Muslims to practice religion, while many questioned think that Barrack Hussien Obama is a Muslim. He's never defended the cross in the desert for our WW1 vets or the ten commandments in a court house or plaza or anything Christian since I've come to know him. He's only becoming a famous liar! A sin in Islam and Christianity. He started this! Nancy Pelosi's request to investigate opponents of the mosque only shows the whole damn party is anti-christian.

Posted by: whineridentifier | August 24, 2010 9:29 AM | Report abuse

"Of course the Mosque controversy is not Obama’s fault!”

And the dormant and sinking economy is not his fault either.

Nor is the Iranian Nuclear program rapidly heading for completion.

And shutting down oil production in the Gulf is not his fault.

No one should hold him accountable for the massive debt we have incurred since he has been President.

Shutting down Gitmo? … well things change and you have to change with them.

What is he responsible for?

Bad picks of football and basketball games.

Golf shots in the rough.

Not convincing the public that it’s all Bush’s fault.

Hey, give the guy a break, he on vacation with his family.

Posted by: jgfox39 | August 24, 2010 9:53 AM | Report abuse

This story is a diversion from real challenges to our freedom launched by the NeoCons, such as the threat to eradicate the 14th amendment, and it has endured long past its shelf life.

Posted by: hakafos44 | August 24, 2010 10:08 AM | Report abuse

That little, hollow shell of a man, Obama is a closet muslim who supports this shrine to muslim murder and hatred. Show me a church in Mecca.... I didn't think so...

Posted by: carlbatey | August 24, 2010 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Wow, not even CLOSE to being correct. Go back and check the Post, almost nothing of consequence had been said by NATIONAL figures until the President spoke out! I'm actually in favor of the mosque, as you probably are, but this column is a total and easily provable lie. Did you learn you craft at Fox News?

Posted by: 54465446 | August 24, 2010 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Obama should have sent in Federal Troops to the NYC area as show of force to protect the rights of property owners. Obama is just to weak. Has been ever since he made excuses for Geithner's tax evasion.

Posted by: Maddogg | August 24, 2010 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Stupid question Mr. Stromberg here's your paid answer Yes. The President expressed the US Constitutions Freedom of Religion written by the Founding Fathers to remind Americans what it said and now with the spin it's his fault. Never mind the lies told by the Newspapers and Fox Fake News. Fox is spreading the crazies while the majority shareholder of Fox is a Saudi Prince. Many of Bush's former employees are attacking the Mosque but doing the Bush two terms the same people praised the Saudi's as friends and very close friends of the Bush Family. As for GW he's knows when to keep his mouth shut as his Daddy makes money dealing with the same people Americans are attacking.

Posted by: qqbDEyZW | August 24, 2010 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Bush Administration gave all the money to Haliburton, and Cheney split that money with Bush. Don't be stupid Washington Post. You know the truth.

Posted by: grisslypop1 | August 24, 2010 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Republicans are schizoid. First they are for property rights and now all of a sudden they are aganist property rights.

While McConnell and Boehner drool at the hopes of cutting entitlements to the poor China is rapidly mondernizing their military, building missiles that have made the US Navy obsolete, and gaining worldwide influence. ROFLMAO

Posted by: Maddogg | August 24, 2010 10:41 AM | Report abuse

"That little, hollow shell of a man, Obama is a closet muslim who supports this shrine to muslim murder and hatred. Show me a church in Mecca.... I didn't think so..."

Yes, you too can be a xenophobic bigot. Just listen to Beck, Newt, and Limbaugh all day long!

So by your line of thinking, you wish to put the United States on a course that will end up with this country having the same intolerance of other countries?

I thought we were supposed to be better than other countries? Do you even realize this is backwards thinking?

You're a dinosaur headed for extinction.

Posted by: steve-2304 | August 24, 2010 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Could it be that the President is actually thrilled by the Mosque debate? It takes the focus off of his woeful policies and our struggling economy. He also can continue to not give press conferences and stay on vacation. Not a bad strategy.

Posted by: sarno | August 24, 2010 10:55 AM | Report abuse

The New United States Constitution will be unveiled by the Republicans following their wins in November:

In order to form more perfect union the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Amendment 1

The right of women to vote and have abortions shall be illegal.

Amendment 2

The rights of property owners shall be decided by the crowd.

Amendment 3

All spending by Democrats must be paid for. All spending by Republicans need not be paid for.

Amendment 4

Jesus shall be the national symbol.

Signed in the Year of Jesus 2010
at
Boehner, DC

Posted by: Maddogg | August 24, 2010 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Here's an idea, instead of some scary community center, let's honor the victims and the hallowed ground their ashes fell to by erecting some more strip clubs and fast food joints. Now there is a tribute!

Posted by: steve-2304 | August 24, 2010 11:05 AM | Report abuse

the president like all americans have the right to speak on any subject he would want, just like YOU. he didn't lose his freedom of speech when he became the leader of this country.
the repugs has attempted to politicize every issue since the black president took office.it is so obvious, i only hope the right thinking americans will see thru their lies and bigotry come election day.
and now for you stromberg, not all "people"oppose the stimulus bill or health care bill, obviously you my dear cannot and should not speak for all the people,like the repugs.

Posted by: ninnafaye | August 24, 2010 11:07 AM | Report abuse

Sigh . . . The President took a Gettysburg Address level stand, i.e. Constitution = Freedom of Religion! . . . . .

Then, as a politician, rather than a statesman . . . blew it with a footnote!

Posted by: lufrank1 | August 24, 2010 11:13 AM | Report abuse

The New United States Constitution will be unveiled by the Republicans following their wins in November:

In order to form more perfect union the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Amendment 1

The right of women to vote and have abortions shall be illegal.

Amendment 2

The rights of property owners shall be decided by the crowd.

Amendment 3

All spending by Democrats must be paid for. All spending by Republicans need not be paid for.

Amendment 4

Jesus shall be the national symbol.

Amendment 5

Inter-racial marriages shall be illegal.

Amendment 6

Gay and Lesbian marriages shall be illegal.

Amendment 7

Illegal aliens shall be placed in Ghettos awaiting the Final Solution.

Signed in the Year of Jesus 2010
at
Boehner, DC

Posted by: Maddogg | August 24, 2010 11:14 AM | Report abuse

obama's position wasn't 'inartful' as stromberg claims, it was pefectly clear: having a right to do something and whether or not you should are two totally different things and this mosque isnt necesarrily appropriate just because the first amendment exists.

Posted by: dummypants | August 24, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

I think it is a hoot that all these liberals insist critics of the mosque are bigots, and all Republicans are being uplifted by xenophobic angry mobs. Yet they insist not a single element of Islamic teaching is responsible for 9/11, or the actual perpetrators are "representative" of Muslims. I guess only evil exists in America, and only in the heart of conservatives.

Posted by: JohnnyGee | August 24, 2010 6:26 AM | Report abuse
=========================================
BS!!

First, IT'S NOT A MOSQUE, it's a Community Center that has a Prayer Room!

This is a first Amendment issue!! You know, the ones that are part of the Constituion that You guys seem to love so much until somebody that you don't like or agree with tries to exercise theirs!! Grow up!! Islam did NOT attack us, a few Radicals did!! Muslims also died in the WTC Attack and NOT just the ones on the planes!! This was and IS a local issue! The zoning board approved it and EVERYBODY else needs to stay out of it!!

Posted by: Angryman | August 24, 2010 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Wow, not even CLOSE to being correct. Go back and check the Post, almost nothing of consequence had been said by NATIONAL figures until the President spoke out! I'm actually in favor of the mosque, as you probably are, but this column is a total and easily provable lie. Did you learn you craft at Fox News?

Posted by: 54465446 | August 24, 2010 10:26 AM | Report abuse

------------------------------------------
Actually, YOU NEED TO CHECK THE TIMELINE!!

Posted by: Angryman | August 24, 2010 11:34 AM | Report abuse

The New United States Constitution will be unveiled by the Republicans following their wins in November:

In order to form more perfect union the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Amendment 1

The right of women to vote and have abortions shall be illegal.

Amendment 2

The rights of property owners shall be decided by the crowd.

Amendment 3

All spending by Democrats must be paid for. All spending by Republicans need not be paid for.

Amendment 4

Jesus shall be the national symbol.

Amendment 5

Inter-racial marriages shall be illegal.

Amendment 6

Gay and Lesbian marriages shall be illegal.

Amendment 7

Illegal aliens shall be placed in Ghettos awaiting the Final Solution.

Amendment 8 (Talibangelical Amendment)

Only blue-eyed blonde Protestant Christians shall be a citizen of the US.

Amendment 9 (Zerological Amendment)

All citizens and others will be required to kneel in the direction of Ground Zero twice a day at prescribed hours and pray.

Amendment 10 (DUH Amendment)

Being a red-neck hick is in.


Signed in the Year of Jesus 2010
at
Boehner, DC

Posted by: Maddogg | August 24, 2010 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Frankly, Ground Zero has come to symbolize nothing more than a cesspool of ignorance and stupidity all blessed by bin-Laden.

The site should be turned into a parking garage for American only cars whose gasoline tanks are filled with Muslim petrol.

Posted by: Maddogg | August 24, 2010 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Angryman, perhaps we differ over who is a national figure. Not Hannity or Bloomberg.

Posted by: 54465446 | August 24, 2010 11:49 AM | Report abuse

For the record, Greg Sargent, hardly a national figure, beat Obama by a day. Krauthammer, came out the same day, obviously tipped off to the President's remarks. Who are we saying was ahead of this, and what day?

Posted by: 54465446 | August 24, 2010 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Can this "newspaper" possibly be more in the bag for Obama? The "journalists" at the Post constantly take this tack: Cover up Obama's blunders by focusing on misguided criticism from the opposition.

Posted by: diehardlib | August 24, 2010 12:05 PM | Report abuse

While the Obama's frolic with the rich and famous at Martha's Vineyard : our economy tanks; Iran builds nukes; our Southern border goes unsecure; the American people suffer under repeated displays of arrogant contempt for their expressed will; employers remain reluctant to hire in response to the unprecedented on-slaught of onerous new taxes and regulatory millstones; we're forced to witness the continuous denigration of our Judeo/Christian heritage; America's energy sector is being willfully destroyed; and, the Muslims build a Cordova Victory mosque over Ground Zero; but, whatever you do don't let these comparatively insignificant items interfere with the Obama's vacation plans. We can only pray that the Obama in-your-face "joyride" on the taxpayer dime and the concurrent American "nightmare" will end with soon to be initiated impeachment proceedings of this most radical left-wing extremist that we unwittingly elevated to the presidency of the United States. Greg Neubeck

Posted by: gneubeck | August 24, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

"First, IT'S NOT A MOSQUE, it's a Community Center that has a Prayer Room!

This is a first Amendment issue!!"

I didn't know the First Amendment protected the right to build Community Centers. Cool.

Posted by: CA57 | August 24, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

No. The mosque itself is the problem in that its location is offensive to 70% of Americans.

Obama was just shoeboating for Ramadan.

Posted by: mlemac | August 24, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

No. The mosque itself is the problem in that its location is offensive to 70% of Americans.

Obama was just showboating for Ramadan.

Posted by: mlemac | August 24, 2010 12:19 PM | Report abuse

No. The mosque itself is the problem in that its location is offensive to 70% of Americans.

Obama was just showboating for Ramadan.

Posted by: mlemac | August 24, 2010 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Quite simply, the Republican establishment dearly needs the War on Terror to thrive and grow, since it's the only issue in years they've felt like people might trust them on. So they do their hateful best to stir up irrational fear and hate at home, in hopes that it will send a message to moderate Muslims the world over that "America hates you and wants to extinguish your religion if it can". This, hopefully, will stir those moderate Muslims into hatred and war against us. This gives the GOP a reason for being, helps the defense contractors For Whom they Stand, and keeps them in some form of power here.

It is pure evil in action. But that's today's GOP. Pure, unadulterated evil.

Posted by: B2O2 | August 24, 2010 12:29 PM | Report abuse

After reading all the posts by those who oppose the building of the Islamic cultural center TWO BLOCKS AWAY AND OUT OF SIGHT of the WTC site, I fear for my country and its proud traditions of freedom and democracy. A few more years of Republicans whipping up the ignorant mobs with fear and hatred and we will be right where Germany was in 1933.

If the WTC site is so sacred, why is a commercial building being erected on it? Why not turn it into a memorial park with a non-denominational chapel? Boo-hoo-hoo. Most people whining about the cultural center don't even realize that four blocks from the WTC site is a real mosque, one that was there in 2001. Should it be closed down and moved too? How far is far enough?

Should we next amend the Constitution to ban all "unapproved" religions?

We will lose our democracy to the howling mob if this continues.

Posted by: Chagasman | August 24, 2010 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Dear Right-leaning American Dupes of FauxNews:

I just want to reach out and thank you. I am continually amazed at how dutifully (and fervently!) you toil at my bidding. First you marched in lock-step behind your dope of a president as he goaded your country into attacking without cause an Islamic nation that had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. I didn't think you'd be stupid enough to buy his hilariously flimsy justifications (Saddam was behind 9/11, yes yes! I loved it!), but you surprised me. The resulting invasion, by several documented independent studies, was an UNPRECEDENTED boon to our recruitment efforts. When your chest-beating "shock and awfulness" rolled into Iraq in March 2003, I felt like I'd won, what do you call your sinful anti-Biblical thing, the lottery?

Now, you are out in full force for me once again. And it so warms my heart. I and my lieutenants have worked hard since 9/11 to convince previously uninterested and unmotivated secularized Muslims the world over that you are at war with ALL of us - not just me and my ragtag band of bearded martyrs (hallowed be their names). It was an uphill battle until you bravely and ignorantly (and predictably, I now realize) joined in our Holy fight. Now, 1.3 billion faithful the world over are looking again at America and seeing a sworn enemy not just to me, but to THEM. You are doing beautifully in validating my words. Well done.

You have performed brilliantly. I thank you for your service to our Divine Plan and I look forward to your reliable future service to global jihad.

And that hottie dimwitted idiot Sarah, please thank her and the newt creature as well. Much appreciated.

Allah al Akbar, (Sincerely)

Osama bin Laden

Posted by: B2O2 | August 24, 2010 1:00 PM | Report abuse

No. The mosque itself is the problem in that its location is offensive to 70% of Americans.

Obama was just showboating for Ramadan.

Posted by: mlemac | August 24, 2010 12:19 PM |
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I am an American whose family has been in this country well before the revolution.

Ground Zero can be either a site for the Mosque or a garbage pit for human waste. I could care less.

Posted by: Maddogg | August 24, 2010 1:03 PM | Report abuse

kgblankinship .you come to the west thinking that the western society owes
something .Think again pal those days are
over,tolarance has to work at both ends,I love america if you don't like our bigot thoughts go back to pakistan and help your people last I checked they were in need of
lots of help

Posted by: cra777 | August 24, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Um....What exactly did McConnell say that was inaccurate?

He was spot on. And alot of Americans agree with him.

Posted by: thinker16
_______________________
everything he said was inaccurate. by the time Obama said something it was already a national furor. Obama said it was a local zoning issue that should be decided on its merits and that religious freedom dictated that only the local zoning issues mattered.

Posted by: JoeT1 | August 24, 2010 2:26 PM | Report abuse


It's interesting to see that Stromberg thinks the rantings of several unelected people carry as much weight as the statements of the President.

Why would he undercut this administration in such a way?

Posted by: edbyronadams | August 24, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

GNEUBECK :

Glad you included yourself in the "we unwittingly elevated . . ." although in your case I would probably call it witless instead. Glad you think the President isn't allowed to take a vacation since President Bush spent one full year of his presidency total at his ranch. Would Chicago have been more acceptable to you?

Posted by: 54465446 | August 24, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

This is a local issue. The President said nothing until right wingers spewed their nonsense. They can't help sticking their stupid noses where they don't belong. Can you say Terri Schiavo?

Posted by: nita3 | August 24, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

NITA#:

You might be right, but can you provide the where and when please? Are we talking Fox News?

Posted by: 54465446 | August 24, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

A small point: there has never been any zoning issue with Park51.

A big point: if people are truly concerned about 9/11, why isn't all this fervor directed toward legislation providing health care for rescue and recovery workers?

Why does that issue receive little attention while a relatively minor and entirely local issue like Park51 becomes the subject of great debate?

If people truly believe that "Ground Zero" is "hallowed ground" why do they have so little concern for those who labored there?

Posted by: semolina | August 24, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Here's yet another theory regarding Obama's poor performance as president:

He doesn't "see" the presidency as anything other than a "job" -- he's just not "into it". Nothing more, nothing less -- Go to work, come home, eat dinner, get up, go on vaca, go to a movie, go out to eat, play a round or two of golf, go home...

Posted by: JAH3 | August 24, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

54465446

I'm talking about Gingrich, Palin, et al. Fox News helped pump up the fake controversy. You can find all of this very easily, on your own.

Posted by: nita3 | August 24, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure if Stromberg is defending Obama or just criticizing McConnell. One thing for sure the east coast media is not listening. I know very few who say the Muslims do not have the right to build their Mosque at that site. I am just amazed at how the press and liberals ignore that the Muslims refuse to show the same sensitivity to the USA that they demand for themselves from everyone. Just try to build a church, synagogue, Hindu temple, or anything but a Mosque in any Mid-eastern Muslim country. Stromberg talks about Republicans making this a political issue yet accuses everyone opposed of racism - I guess that is not political. Face it - Obama made this a political issue with his behavior in other countries and on this issue here.

Posted by: fcrucian | August 24, 2010 3:14 PM | Report abuse

I was actually addressing people holding office, not bomb-throwers outside of office, but they are national figures so we can both be right on this one.

Posted by: 54465446 | August 24, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Dear RedderThanEver:

"Islam needs to be banned in the West until such time as it can be eradicated from the world, as we did with small pox. Islam is dysfunctional mass delusion and an international men's club that subjugates women and mistreats animals. Islam needs to go."

Christians kill Christians too or has the last 1000 years of history escaped your selective memory?!?!?! Or perhaps the last 30 or so years might ring a bell?? Here's a hint, it starts with "Northern" and ends with "Ireland"!!! And leave us not forget the illustrious, tarnished-free Vatican!

Posted by: jyancy13 | August 24, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: kgblankinship: To those bigots who would not allow the mosque to be built, let them consider the names of the some of the estimated 300 Pakistani muslims killed in the 9-11 attacks on the World Trade Center:

list omitted...
---------------------------------
It is perfectly in order to honor these Pakistanis who died on 9-11.

But might you consider the possibility that non-Muslims who died should ALSO be honored?

And how are THEY honored by an Islamic Center?

Are you suggesting that only the citizens of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan be honored but NOT others?

Posted by: rohit57 | August 24, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: kgblankinship: To those bigots who would not allow the mosque to be built, let them consider the names of the some of the estimated 300 Pakistani muslims killed in the 9-11 attacks on the World Trade Center:
---------------------------------
It is perfectly in order to honor these Pakistanis who died on 9-11.

But might you consider the possibility that non-Muslims who died should ALSO be honored?

And how are THEY honored by an Islamic Center?

Are you suggesting that the citizens of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan be honored but NOT others?

Posted by: rohit57 | August 24, 2010 3:36 PM | Report abuse

the president like all americans have the right to speak on any subject he would want, just like YOU. he didn't lose his freedom of speech when he became the leader of this country.
the repugs has attempted to politicize every issue since the black president took office.it is so obvious, i only hope the right thinking americans will see thru their lies and bigotry come election day.
and now for you stromberg, not all "people"oppose the stimulus bill or health care bill, obviously you my dear cannot and should not speak for all the people,like the repugs.

Posted by: ninnafaye
--------------------------------
You are mistaken in this. Larry Summers, then president of Harvard, once said in a speech that women were not as good in science as men were.

He had free speech - didn't he? But there was an uproar and he had to step down as president of Harvard.

He wasn't shot, he wasn't imprisoned, but he did step down.

Just recently Laura Schlessinger closed her show after using the N word.

With a job comes responsibility and who has more responsibility than the president of the US?

And note by the way, that Obama never refers to Republicans as repugs. And that is because he has more sense than you have.

Posted by: rohit57 | August 24, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Dear rohit57:

EVERYONE who died on 9/11 at the World Trade Center is being honored!! It's called the 9/11 Memorial being erected in the footprints of the original towers. There are numerous churches, temples, synagogues and a couple of mosques that currently exist in the neighborhood around the World Trade Center!! No one has taken issue with any of these!!

Posted by: jyancy13 | August 24, 2010 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Republicans have come to be in a rock solid state of denial, which has been very annoying.

Republicans are full of misinformation, and they rely solely on demagoguery to try to win elections this season.

With Fruit Cakes, such as Boehner (R) Ohio, all anyone needs to do is look to that politician's home state to see exactly what the GOP is allllll about.

_________________


TO: kgblankinship who wrote:
"To those bigots who would not allow the mosque to be built, let them consider the names of the some of the estimated 300 Pakistani muslims killed in the 9-11 attacks on the World Trade Center..."
---

Oh please, 60 muslims were killed in the attack of the WTC.

That's been public knowledge since 2001.


Posted by: lindalovejones | August 24, 2010 3:45 PM | Report abuse

TO carlbatey who wrote: "That little, hollow shell of a man, Obama is a closet muslim who supports this shrine to muslim murder and hatred..."
____________

You should be thanking REPUBLICAN New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg for approving the building of the mosque.

It was New York City that was hit on 9/11, and it was REPUBLICAN Mayor Michael Bloomberg who approved the building of the mosque 2 blocks from Ground Zero.

Why not call Bloomberg a "muslim"?

I see Republicans and Tea Baggers have been busy trying to figure out how to deny Constitution Rights to their selected Americans.

So, who will Republicans select next to deny their "Freedom of Religion"?


Posted by: lindalovejones | August 24, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

@Ladrones Mentira--NICE REVISIONISM. Tell me something--what honors the Muslim Americans who died in the WTC and the Pentagon? Or in your small mind do you figure it was just white Christians who perished?

You say Muslims "danced in the streets"--not in NYC, they didn't. Not in Riyadh or Lahore, or Islamabad or Tehran where 100's of thousands held candlelight vigils. The "dancing" was limited to small and disparate groups of Palestinians, and a few knuckleheads in Kabul and Mmalaysia. But why let accuracy deter you.

And lets get the term right--it ISN'T a mosque--the building will have a prayer room--and a gym, a pool, a basketball court, a theatre, an educational library. It WON'T have a minaret, a dome or anything like it. As a New Yorker, I'm getting REAL tired of the knuckle draggers and rednecks babbling on about something that has NOTHING to do with them.

Let's talk "hallowed ground". A block away--with sight of Ground Zero (unlike the Cordoba Center)--there will be a strip club, 2 fast food restaurants and a Pussycat Dolls. So LAP DANCES are inoffensive, naked women don't tarnish our cherished heroes, a Mickey D's is fine, but a center to help people actually understand the difference between the 1.3 billion people who practice Islam and the 19 political fanatics who WERE Muslim dishonors the fallen. Real consistent there, bucko. Oh, and there is a Muslim prayer room INSIDE the Pentagon--so that must be a different kind of "hallowed" ground, right?

Finally, take the time to actually READ the Constitution. It always amazes how conservatives profess reverence for our Founding Fathers and the Constitution until some unseen consequence arises. Then, strict constructionism goes out the window. Well not just then. The party that piously talks about the Constution as etched in stone and unchanging in word or meaning, has in this legislative session alone propsed FORTY TWO amendments. Can you spell HYPOCRITES?

Posted by: bklyndan22 | August 24, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

It really doesn't matter, and you are ALL missing the point.

Lincoln said it best, "A house divided against itself cannot stand."

The GOP has succeeded in tearing this country apart with an incendiary division that has ALREADY destroyed the America so many profess to love. Yes, the 50 states are still intact in one union, but that "union" is polarized to the point of complete political paralysis.

It is the "Southern Strategy" run amok. Divide and Conquer is the motto of the GOP and it doesn't matter the collateral damage it does to the US of A.

It is no wonder that the GOP is most successful in the South. In an ideal world, you'd think they would know full well the costs of division, but so many are so riled over that previous attempt at division so many years ago that they think division is a form of multiplication. And it is, it's just fractional.

The party of Lincoln has become his antithesis. That somewhere he must be weeping probably gives the current hatemongers the jollies.

Posted by: ethanquern | August 24, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Obama made the issue a national, indeed international. Before he butted in, it was just another Bloomberg controversial decision.

Posted by: suegbic1 | August 24, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

"I guess only evil exists in America, and only in the heart of conservatives".
-------------------------------------------
Exactly! Finally something truthful out of the racists right!

Posted by: whatup65 | August 24, 2010 5:05 PM | Report abuse

ABSOLUTELY! Obama made this a national issue. When the president speak, unfortunately, too many people listen!!

Posted by: wheeljc | August 24, 2010 5:21 PM | Report abuse

This has been SOP for some time with the GOP. First the rabid dogs, Limbaugh, Gingrich etc, see if their inflamatory remarks stir up some issue. If their inflamtory rhetoric generates some heat and people start responding then the more moderate voices, Krauthhammer, McConnell etc pretend the people responding are actualy the ones creating the controversary by trying to suppress the discussion by trotting out some old worn out hobby horse like racism. Nothing new here if you have eyes and ears and a brain that is still functioning outside the imaginary liberal-conservative universe.

Posted by: kchses1 | August 24, 2010 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Is the 'mosque' controversy Obama's fault?

you betcha!

obama really knows how to throw gasoline on a fire.

i just wish his brain was half as fast as his mouth.

Posted by: potomacfever00 | August 24, 2010 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Obama has been on vacation for nearly two years.


Posted by: Jerzy | August 24, 2010 6:22 PM | Report abuse

Bin laden must be laughing his headoff in a cave for bringing out the American stupidity to the forefront. Islamists are financing both sides namely Fox News/Republicans and the community center.

Posted by: Realist17 | August 24, 2010 6:37 PM | Report abuse

Bin laden must be laughing his headoff in a cave for bringing out the American stupidity to the forefront. Islamists are financing both sides of the issue namely, Fox News/Republicans and the community center.

Posted by: Realist17 | August 24, 2010 6:38 PM | Report abuse

wELL, i DON'T KNOW WHOSE FAULT IT IS, BUT i WAS JUST WONDERING IF gENE rOBINSON REALLY AGREES WITH iMAM rAUF THAT gENE HAS BLOOD ON HIS HANDS - mUSLIM BLOOD?

Posted by: chatard | August 24, 2010 7:35 PM | Report abuse

The GOP has no right to tell them to move the Islamic Cultural Center from downtown Manhattan to another location until it condemns those in their party that have stopped mosques in another location.

Posted by: jameschirico | August 24, 2010 8:22 PM | Report abuse

Christians kill Christians too or has the last 1000 years of history escaped your selective memory?!?!?! Or perhaps the last 30 or so years might ring a bell?? Here's a hint, it starts with "Northern" and ends with "Ireland"!!! And leave us not forget the illustrious, tarnished-free Vatican!
______

Yes, in the past, Christians have indeed killed Christians, but Christianity has, by and large, reformed itself. The battle in Northern Ireland had little too do with Christianity and mostly concerned issues of autonomy. And homosexual child molesters are limited to the Catholic church. Of course, not being a Christian, much less a Catholic, and not Irish, I really don't feel any great need to come to their defense, other than to say your sense of proportion..,isn't.

Islam is a warrior religion and also a political system. It has as one of its central tenets that infidels must convert, become dhimmis, or die. Even Christianity allows non-believers to live, believing that God will mete out their fate in the afterlife. Not so with Islam. It is Islam that cannot live peacefully anywhere in the world with any other religion or rejection of Islam. Please name even one predominantly Islamic country that doesn't mistreat its non-Islamic citizens or doesn't have bad relationships with neighboring countries.

It is Islamic jihadis that have committed countless acts of mass murder throughout the world during the past four decades. It is Islam and its 1.5 billion adherents that tell me that I, as a woman, am valued only one-half as much as a man. It is Islam that tells me that women who go about uncovered are responsible for causing otherwise "good" Muslim men to sin. It is Islam that tells me that the beautiful dog I've had for 12 years, that has been my surrogate child and given me nothing but unconditional love, is dirty and disgusting and should be mistreated, abused, or killed. It is Islam that prescribes every mundane act of each and every day. It is Islam that gets worked up enough to kill if cartoonists dare draw pictures of their blessed murderer pedophile, Mohammed. It is Islam that proscribes fine art, scientific inquiry, and freedom of thought and action.

If I'm performing triage on religion, Islam comes first. All of the others are mere hangnails compared to this gushing wound called Islam.

Islam needs to go.

Posted by: RedderThanEver | August 24, 2010 9:17 PM | Report abuse

RedderThanEver wrote [only end of comment quoted here]:

If I'm performing triage on religion, Islam comes first. All of the others are mere hangnails compared to this gushing wound called Islam.
Islam needs to go.
_______________________

And who gives you the job of performing triage on religion? If you imagine that God does, you presume, methinks . . . And you commit a fundamental logical error in equating a faith which each and every adherent of it.

And if Islam has to go, how are you going to manage your crusade [word choice deliberate] to eliminate it without provoking the "mother of all" jihads, one which makes the tragedy of 9/11 pale into insignificance. And if you happen to be a Christian, how do you conduct that crusade without abandoning the ethical principles central to the faith you claim to be defending? Will not your crusade be exactly the moral equivalent of the insane jihad that the fundamentalist thug bin Laden works so hard for?

You have irrationally extrapolated your intense distaste for Islam into a paranoid fear that the collapse of America is imminent, a collapse apparently hastened by the fact that we allow Muslims to worship and build houses of worship here (BTW, in accordance with our constitution). Who in America is forcing you to wear a burqa or submit to Sharia?

For the record, I happen to be a committed Christian, and I believe that there isn't an imam in the world who can persuade me to abandon the gospel of Christ. I also am committed to American principles, which (not just coincidentally) happen to include freedom of religion and the idea that certain rights are not subject to the tyranny of the majority, no matter how unpopular the expression of those rights may be.

I happen to think that the Islamic center is an imprudent move on the part of its promoters and have said so in many comments (bet THAT took you by surprise!). But it is not an affront to our constitution, and unlike Gingrich (and you, apparently), I would not have us abandon our foundational principles while waiting for the Saudi theocrats to behave like us, a fool's errand if ever there was. So why should we behave like them?

Posted by: post_reader_in_wv | August 24, 2010 10:36 PM | Report abuse

I never said that building the mosque at GZ is an affront to our Constitution, and I'm glad to see that you agree with me that it is an "imprudent" move. If you had read my post more carefully, you would have read that I am not a Christian, and that I submit that Islam is not a religion. In fact, Islam is a political system. Islam doesn't recognize the concept of separation of church and state. It's anathema to them.

How would I rid the world of Islam? Well, with 1.5 billion adherents, it would be difficult. The best solution I can come up with is isolation -- do not allow any more of them to immigrate to this country, and quit accommodating the ones who are here so that they no longer want to stay. In their Islamic countries, they should be allowed to be Muslim 24/7. I say let them marinate in Islam for a few thousand years or so until they figure it out.

Look at the problems with have already with only 2% of our population Muslim. Wait until it increases to 10%, 20%, or more. Then you won't see such a benign relgion.

No one's forcing ME to wear a burqa, but millions of Muslim women are being forced to wear it, either by threat of physical harm or death or because they are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. Does that mean nothing to you?

Posted by: RedderThanEver | August 24, 2010 10:56 PM | Report abuse

Over 300 Muslims died when the World Trade Center collapsed. They have a stake in this as much as anyone else. We may not like their religion, but they live n this world, too, so it behooves us, and them, to find a way to live together in peace, and to realize that sometimes they have the same enemies that we do. Our own Christian Fundamentalist neighbors are not easy to live with, either, nor do they regard us as easy to live with. Tolerance is not easy. Nor is determining the limits of tolerance.

Posted by: samsara15 | August 24, 2010 11:24 PM | Report abuse

Ack! The muslims are coming! They're building community centers mere blocks from the site we are honoring by erecting solemn commercial office buildings! They're planting terror babies! A million jihadist sprouts will bloom! American institutions are too fragile to deal with this imminent threat! A gay marriage in California makes my straight marriage in Maryland absolutely worthless! I'm scared! So scared! I'm just a scared, scared, scared person!

I can't do anything but laugh at these people, honestly. They are completely unhindered by reality or decency. You can't have an honest debate with them, because they'll just, plain, lie. And you can't debate a liar, because they'll just keep making up new stuff and drive you completely off topic.

Forget an isolated island for muslims - how about an isolated island for adults? I, for one, would be happy to be sent there.

Oh, and by the way - if McConnell voted "aye" on the Bush tax cut, which explicitly mandated the sunset in 2010, then HE's the one who is responsible for the upcoming "tax increase." Him and every other politician who voted for the bill. Honestly now, is his entire political career founded on the belief that everyone is stupid? Or just enough idiots to get him elected?

If you wanted to see who voted for the upcoming "tax increase" in 2001, go to:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00170#position

Posted by: Buddydog | August 24, 2010 11:28 PM | Report abuse

Obama should have kept his mouth shut. It is a NYC matter. So as usual he has made things worse.

Posted by: jschmidt2 | August 24, 2010 11:49 PM | Report abuse

No one is saying that 9/11 wasn't horrific. But 9/11 was no more the fault of American Muslims living in New York, than Pearl Harbor was the fault of Americans of Japanese descent. Can't we learn from that mistake?

Posted by: samantha3 | August 24, 2010 11:50 PM | Report abuse

The president did exactly what a responsible president should do in this type of situation: 1. Remind those that would take extreme positions that basic freedoms belong to all of us - even unpopular groups and 2: make it clear that it is inappropriate for him to comment on the merits of the case since that type of case(zoning)was clearly a local matter.

I found his response to be responsible. To do more than that would be irresponsible and disrespectful of local leaders who are trying to do their job. His comments should not even be controversial.
________________
You are right on the money. People dislike Obamaa because he is nuanced at times and a peace maker, but ultimatley the issue is clear - 19 terrorists who HATE moderate Muslims are not equivilant to 2 million American muslims who want the same things we do, a house, a job, freedom of religion.

Posted by: cadam72 | August 25, 2010 12:03 AM | Report abuse

Obama did not cause the controversy, but he had the opportunity to bring some sense into it. He chose not to. Shame on him. He said in front of a Muslim group that the Cordoba Group had every right to build on their land. The next day he back peddles and said he wasn't judging the wisdom of doing so. What a load of cowardice! Bush at least was unequivocal about our not fighting Islam, just the terrorists. Obama should have stuck to his guns, met with Muslim leaders so they could explain their beliefs, and have the Cordoba Group explain exactly what they had in mind. He should have shamed those who wanted to demonize Muslims. He could have shown them to be as American as anyone else. That they suffered like everyone else on 9/11. We must remember whenever we victimize any group because of fear and hate, we regret it later (Communist witch hunts, Jews, Catholics, Black Americans, Japanese Americans and so on). Every time we have had to make amends because we realized we had been wrong.

Posted by: michbar2468 | August 25, 2010 12:48 AM | Report abuse

The controversy is at least partly your fault when you call the proposed community center a mosque, even though you use quotations around the word. It's not a mosque. It's a community center with a chapel in it.

Posted by: stephendclark | August 25, 2010 6:54 AM | Report abuse

All I can say to all of you non-Islamic supporters of this mosque and defenders of Islam is that, what you call bigotry and hysteria on the part of people like me, I call realism. I believe you are woefully ignorant of Islam. I have known many Muslim Arabs and done much research and reading about Islam, and I think I have a much better understanding about the threats that this world-wide religio-political system poses to us than the average American. Most Muslims don't have the guts to carry out suicide attacks that kill scores of people in the name of Islam, but I submit that the majority of them secretly agree with it and support it, and that includes 9/11. Besides, Islam is spread in more ways than simply by the sword -- Islam is also spread through supplanting the host population through colonization and higher birth rates and through incremental implementation of Sharia. We have only to look at Europe as an example. But apparently, in the same way that we are only now beginning to get serious about a 12-digit national debt, despite the fact that fiscal conservatives such as myself have been sounding a warning for years, we will only get serious about the Islamic threat here in America when it reaches a crisis level. Americans don't appear to be willing or able to face up an impending harsh reality before it reaches a crisis state.

With our current ~2% Muslim population, our institutions are not threatened. But how are you going to feel, all of you who are so convinced that Islam is a religion of peace and believe that the overwhelming majority of Muslims believe in separation of church and state and respect for the beliefs of others that are at odds with Islam -- how are you going to feel when this percentage begins to increase and Muslims become more assertive about influencing our institutions? Why should we continue to allow them to immigrate here, and why do they even want to come here? Of what benefit is it to us? What does Islam add that we don't already have? Even now, Muslims are, in low-profile manner, building mega-mosques in various small towns throughout the U.S. where there are probably no more than 200 Muslims in the area. Why? Because they believe that "If we build it, they will come."

I used to scoff at the idea expressed to me by Arab Muslims I knew in the 1980s that "American will be a Muslim country one day." Although it may be decades away, I no longer see it as so ludicrous.

I'll respect Islam when Islam is no longer a warrior religio-politico system controlled of misogynistic men. When it expressly avows that women are fully the equals of men. When it no longer believes that infidels must "convert, become dhimmis (second-class citizens), or die." When it no longer practices "takiya" (lying to the infidel in furtherance of Islam). When it respects me. Which likely means never.

Posted by: RedderThanEver | August 25, 2010 6:54 AM | Report abuse

Only in the twisted imagination of right- wing nuts!

Posted by: michael5 | August 25, 2010 1:22 PM | Report abuse

How can anything be Obama's fault? Our Teleprompter-in-Chief is a puppet.

BREAKING: Islamo-supremacist "Imam Rauf wrote Obama's Cairo speech"
http://888webtoday.com/articles/viewnews.cgi?id=EklkyAFAFVxHELEDIJ

QUESTION: Who really was speaking on that historic day of June 4th 2009 in Cairo, Egypt? President Obama or the Imam of the proposed Ground Zero Mosque, Feisal Abdul Rauf?

ANSWER: Feisal Abdul Rauf! Link to audio of Rauf's admission
http://www.specialguests.com/guests/data/audio/Rauf_Interview_excerpt_0210.mp3

The Shoebat Foundation obtained this shocking audio recording of Rauf's own voice boasting in Arabic that Obama’s historic Cairo speech was provided by the Imam and the Cordova Initiative in what the Imam called “The Blue Print” which he said was the solution to the Islamic-American divide. Rauf claimed Chapter 6 of the Imam’s work engineered by the Cordova Initiative was the construct for the entire speech:

“This is an example of the impact of our work in a positive way to be used by the President.”

"The blue print," Rauf elaborated, included everything from U.S. policy to Jewish and Christian relations with Muslims.

[At least now we know who's behind the submission tour of our Teleprompter-in-Chief.]

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | August 25, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

TedFrier sneered: "It's the very same argument used by the KKK"]

Ted spits that slander without a hint of irony. I don't know how many times I need to repeat the message before it sinks into the thick skulls of the Quisling toadies here-- but my patience is spent with these lying, slandering idiotarians.

This has NOTHING to do with intolerance of mosques and everything to do with the apartheid Islamo-supremacism of Cordoba House, in particular. Somehow, I think TedFrier would NOT support neo-pagans' "right" to erect eternal Crann Tara monuments next to MLK memorials.

But when patriotic Americans object to stealth jihadists-- and (yes) that accurately describes the Cordoba House cabal-- opening a 9/11 snuff porn vendor emporium (and jihadi recruitment center) on the hallowed graves of Ground Zero-- the Quisling hypocrits shriek with indignation!

American Muslims may be the very soul of moderation. But I don’t think it’s unreasonable for Americans to ask for more from (allegedly) “peaceful” Cordoba House jihadists than insincere bromides and disingenuous whitewashing of uncomfortable elements of Islamic sharia law, as practiced by the Cordoba House cabal and their financial sponsors.

A genuine tiny minority of anti-jihadist Muslims may be found @
http://secularislam.org/blog/post/SI_Blog/21/The-St-Petersburg-Declaration

Americans remain breathless in anticipation of the sharia law vendors of Cordoba House supporting this genuinely tiny minority of their co-religionists-- but don’t hold your breath.

When will Quislings support Secular Islam advocates' right to live free from the sharia law intimidation of Cordoba House Islamo-supremacists?

Be advised these sharia-fascists have their eyes on your throats, too.

"Ye blind guides, that strain out the gnat, and swallow the camel!"
[Matthew 23:24]

Posted by: KaddafiDelendaEst | August 25, 2010 1:42 PM | Report abuse

LadronesMentira:

Most Americans with children have run the "what if" scenarios through our minds dozens of times since 9/11. My son was in a class about a mile from the Pentagon on that day.

What if?

My husband and I had a reservation for a weekend getaway at the WTC Marriott for later in September 2001.

What if?

This much I can tell you. If my son had been at the wrong place at the wrong time on 9/11, I would be outraged by people who would use my family's loss to promote their own political agendas. I would feel that way whether I agreed with those agendas or not.

If the families and friends of the people murdered on 9/11 wish to express their opinions about the location of the Park21 center, they have shown us that they are perfectly capable of speaking for themselves. They do not need groups like Stop the Islamization of America to pretend to speak for them in order to advance an agenda that has very little to do with one planned Islamic community center near Ground Zero.

Posted by: exco | August 25, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

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