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Posted at 5:34 PM ET, 12/ 9/2010

DADT repeal failure: next steps

By Jonathan Capehart

Those who questioned Maine Republican Sen. Susan Collins's sincerity in wanting to repeal don't ask don't tell (DADT) got their comeuppance when the Republican from Maine did what she hinted she might do when we talked yesterday: She voted for cloture on the motion to reconsider the defense authorization bill (NDAA). But the motion failed 57 to 40. So, now Collins, Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) and others are leading an effort to get it passed as a stand-alone bill in the lame-duck session.

The chances of success are slim. But when striking a blow against discrimination and for people's right to basic dignity, it's damned well worth it.

Organizations such as Servicemembers Legal Defense Network and Servicemembers United have taken the any-port-in-the-storm approach to get DADT repealed during the lame-duck session. They're all for attaching it to a continuing resolution or some other legislative vehicle, in addition to backing a stand-alone bill.

But no matter what happens on Capitol Hill, the action will shift dramatically back to the White House. In fact, it already has. The Human Rights Campaign issued a statement immediately after NDAA failed. The nation's largest gay rights organization called on President Obama to "stop legal defense of DADT and issue stop-loss order." I'll get into those two demands and other Plan B's in a post tomorrow.

With just a few words in his State of the Union Address in January, Obama got the ball rolling on the repeal of DADT. He deserves credit for bringing us the closest we have come to ending this shameful policy that robs this nation of talent and risks our security.
In a statement just issued by the White House, an "extremely disappointed" Obama urged "the Senate to revisit these important issues during the lame-duck session."

But the failure in the Senate today -- and the diminishing prospects of legislative success before the Republicans take over the House and increase their ranks in the Senate -- means that the president is going to have to do what the Senate couldn't on the repeal of DADT: lead.

By Jonathan Capehart  | December 9, 2010; 5:34 PM ET
Categories:  Capehart  | Tags:  Jonathan Capehart  
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Next: Republican hypocrisy in the lame duck Congress

Comments

"But when striking a blow against discrimination and for people's right to basic dignity, it's damned well worth it."
---JC, 12/9/2010

Ah, but the author is on record that it's OK for the disabled who can't walk through an airport scanner to be groped in violation of their 4th amendment rights regarding unreasonable search and seizure and their ADA rights to equivalent treatment.

His idea of “rights to basic dignity” seems to apply only to certain groups.

Posted by: MsJS | December 9, 2010 6:53 PM | Report abuse

Please Capehart, get off your gay ideological high-horse. You're capable of writing some griping columns; the one about your conversation with he NYC police chief was one of the best written articles I've ever read.

But your are flat wrong about the US Military and gays. Constitutional rights do not apply on many levels for the US Military. And you know that and why and the supreme court has backed this. Gays, as this country now stands, simply would be at risk were they posted in combat situations with our men. That itself is a morale problem. Sorry Cape..that's the danged truth and you know it. The Army in Afghanistan is not Dupont Circle.

Devote yourself to some other cause. It's not like gays were goint to flock to the colors. You and I know it's a Trojan horse to normalize that behavior anyhow.

Posted by: wjc1va | December 9, 2010 7:26 PM | Report abuse

Good, Capehart. I told you so.

There is no place for homosexuals with their psycho-sexual identity problems around young military warriors filled with testosterone.

When did the WaPo begin hiring fanatical social advocates rather than reporters?

Posted by: Lazarus40 | December 9, 2010 7:43 PM | Report abuse

wjc1va

YOur bigotry shows through all over.

The only answer for you and your kind is to have the estimated 65000 gays (my adhoc info on this subject says more then 100,000) come out of the closet of shame and fear.

And then we'll present people like you with an interesting choice-[

Support ending DADt, or see our efforts in Afghanistan collapse.

The only issue is make sure that good people are not the victims of that collapse - just people like you.

The whole issue is BS anyways - these gays are serving with distinction, showering with str8 troops etc. a majority of str8 soldiers admitted they know gay people.

the only thing DADT does is protect religious prejudice.

Which should have no place in our military or our country at large.

Posted by: SJames6621 | December 9, 2010 7:43 PM | Report abuse

MS Js - Maybe I am an woman who appears to be very heavy, I come to the scanner in a wheel chair and cannot be scanned.

Do you want to get on the airplane with me, with my suicide vest because TSA doesn't have the right to find out what I may be hiding?

the whole grope thing is just another paranoia planted into the people by the republcians. who could care less if another plane blows up.

Because they would be able to blame Obama.

And you fall for this incredible bull.

I'd be glad to have the TSA guy, gay or str8 even check my body cavities. Nothing unusual, btw my urologist is gay, and every year we have the joke called "gay day at the doc"

As he checks out my prostate for cancer - the most common male cancer issue for those of us who don't poison our selves with tobacco.

Maybe you do smoke - and what we are seeing is just another poisoning of your mind by tobacco companies whwo murder tens or is it hundreds of thousands of people every year in this country for their profits.

Posted by: SJames6621 | December 9, 2010 7:51 PM | Report abuse

So a measure can't get to a vote in the Senate because they can't get cloture? What else is new? Nothing worthwhile EVER gets done in the Senate.

Posted by: terryhill46 | December 9, 2010 7:55 PM | Report abuse

Quote - There is no place for homosexuals with their psycho-sexual identity problems around young military warriors filled with testosterone. end quote by Lazarous.

If anybody has a problem it is people like you with your hatred of gay people. You manifest some sort of irrational fear of gays is it that your member would expose you if you knew the guy next to you is gay?

Or should we just draft you and put you on the front lines, and let the gays all come home.

I hope you have a 100,000 friend with mentalities like yours to take their place

And when you come home in a body bag, perhaps another psychotic group - the westboro baptist church freaks, will happily celebrate your death at your funeral. What goes around comes around.

The only thing DADT protects is prejudice hardly different then the predjudice and hatred that gave us 9//11

Posted by: SJames6621 | December 9, 2010 7:59 PM | Report abuse

If the 'Don't Ask' policy gets repealed the libs here will be the first ones asking for even more special rights for gays after the soap parties and fragging begin. I can see it now, "They need their own special barracks (or baraks) because they aren't safe around regular troops". The real kicker will be, "They didn't ask for this".

Posted by: oldno7 | December 9, 2010 8:05 PM | Report abuse

The matter should be left to military professionals and experts. Political correctness has no business in the armed forces.

Posted by: thebump | December 9, 2010 8:18 PM | Report abuse

Congress doesn't want to repeal DADT because it's unpopular and may prove a hindrance to reelection. Everything else is smoke.

Posted by: gpsman | December 9, 2010 8:23 PM | Report abuse


Barry the incompetent boob Obama screwed the pooch yet again on a maajor campaign promise. Now Barry's leftist toadies at WaPo try to spin yet another loss by Barry into a win. Hilarious WaPo hacks.

Posted by: screwjob23 | December 9, 2010 8:26 PM | Report abuse

If DADT is ever repealed, then it will grant to gays and lesbians the legal right to view the naked bodies of strangers to whom they can be sexually attracted.

That's a legal right which hasn't existed in North America since masters viewed the bodies of slaves at public auction and elsewhere. In Europe, it was known as "droit de seigneur" and entitled the lord to more than just a lusty eyeful of his vassal, if he so desired.

Gays and lesbians might serve in the military due to DADT, but they have no legal right to be in areas where soldiers of the same sex sleep, bathe, and dress.

Way to go, Capehart.

Posted by: blasmaic | December 9, 2010 8:28 PM | Report abuse


No Capehart you uninformative and uninformed Obama today: COLLINS DID NOT VOTE FOR CLOTURE.

Susan Collins did not vote. How did you ever get your job at WaPo? You write a column about a roll call vote and do not even bother looking at the roll call. Pathetic.

Posted by: screwjob23 | December 9, 2010 8:32 PM | Report abuse

"If DADT is ever repealed, then it will grant to gays and lesbians the legal right to view the naked bodies of strangers to whom they can be sexually attracted."

This is an established fact, it happens now, and under DADT it's already perfectly legal. DADT can't even keep the straight guys from knowing there are some gay guys in the shower in there with them.

Posted by: fzdybel | December 9, 2010 8:41 PM | Report abuse

Well it is now painfully obvious we have elected politicians that have failed to honor heir oath of ofice in upholding the Constitution of the US and should be thrown summarily out of office as the Constitution is an egalitarian document with its civil rights amendments. Not upholding those civil rights with their equal rights charter granting equality and overturning DADT on its discriminatory premise, is in itself a discriminatory act.

Posted by: soshljustic | December 9, 2010 9:01 PM | Report abuse

If DADT isn't repealed, what you'll see next is that the "DA" part will increasingly be used to purge the military of officers and noncoms who persist in outing compliant gay and lesbian soldiers.

Ironic, isn't it? Well, this is what goes around when you start shucking and jiving with the First Amendment.

Posted by: fzdybel | December 9, 2010 9:04 PM | Report abuse

Effectively, DADT is already dead.

The Department of Defense has stopped enforcing it.

And it hasn't made a shred of difference.

Nor will it.

Eventually --sooner rather than later-- DADT will go the way of the Dodo. It's been a counterproductive measure since the beginning.

It's too bad that, as usual, politicians have put politics ahead of what's good for the Military and the country.

But it's going to matter less and less.

Get used to it.

Posted by: ricklinguist | December 9, 2010 9:10 PM | Report abuse

Effectively, DADT is already dead.

The Department of Defense has stopped enforcing it.

And it hasn't made a shred of difference.

Nor will it.

Eventually --sooner rather than later-- DADT will go the way of the Dodo. It's been a counterproductive measure since the beginning.

It's too bad that, as usual, politicians have put politics ahead of what's good for the Military and the country.

But it's going to matter less and less.

Get used to it.

Posted by: ricklinguist | December 9, 2010 9:11 PM | Report abuse

SJames6621 said among other things: "Or should we just draft you and put you on the front lines, and let the gays all come home."

I was on the front lines for over twenty years. Where were you?

Since gays make up about 2% of the population (their propaganda claims 10%) if all of them come home, it wouldn't amount to anything more than losing a company of cooks.

As far as I am concerned, gays can do what they want, just not in the military where being openly gay will lead to big trouble. If you are an officer or NCO, you have enough problems already. Gays should enjoy their average 500-600 sexual partners and live long and happy lives as proud civilians.

Posted by: Lazarus40 | December 9, 2010 9:12 PM | Report abuse


There is no Constitutional right to serve in the armed forces.

Posted by: screwjob23 | December 9, 2010 9:15 PM | Report abuse

Funny that the whole wikileaks scandal was started by a disgruntled, aggrieved gay military private angry over Don't Ask Don't Tell hurting his feelings. No one wants to talk about that.
Angry gay dude ='s massive document dump. Thanks, Angry Gay Guy. Good for you, champ!We could consider him a "whistleblower", but do we REALLY want to go there?

For the record, I think "Angry Gay Guy" is a character in Family Guy. If he isn't he should be.

Posted by: cartmaneric | December 9, 2010 9:24 PM | Report abuse

Funny that the whole wikileaks scandal was started by a disgruntled, aggrieved gay military private angry over Don't Ask Don't Tell hurting his feelings. No one wants to talk about that.
Angry gay dude ='s massive document dump. Thanks, Angry Gay Guy. Good for you, champ!We could consider him a "whistleblower", but do we REALLY want to go there?

For the record, I think "Angry Gay Guy" is a character in Family Guy. If he isn't he should be.

Posted by: cartmaneric | December 9, 2010 9:24 PM | Report abuse

I am called a bigot by a couple of gay activists above. I've served i combat for 35 years. Believe me, if I thought an openly gay man would be safe in a combat unit on the front lines, I'd say so. He/she would not be. That itself is a morale killer. Sorry boys, that is not politically correct but it is the truth.

Again, this is not about political correctness, and pie-in-the-sky "equality," it is about combat troops 19 years old with guns on the front line. You are openly gay....you do not want to be there.

And I'll state it again. This has nothing really to do with getting openly gay people into the military. It has everything to do with normalize an aberrant behavior in front of the American people. I sincerely doubt that SJames is going to run out and enlist and volunteer for the rangers and special forces. I do think as soon as this policy is in place, the lawyers will be at work with law suits on all sorts of gay issues, and gay marriage will be right around the corner.

I'll work with openly gay people anywhere. But I fear for their safety in a combat situation. Wring your hands and tear you hair and rend your clothes and gnash our teeth. That is the truth..you can bank on it.

Posted by: wjc1va | December 9, 2010 9:25 PM | Report abuse

The commanding officer is believed to be gay. Don't ask.

A troop in the ranks rises by merit and performance.

On leave, both men go on their long awaited honeymoon.

Favoritism? Nepotism? Spouses serving in the same unit, or under the command of the other? No.

Don't Ask.

Guess this policy can work a while longer.

Time will tell.

Posted by: ldfrmc | December 9, 2010 9:25 PM | Report abuse

"The Department of Defense has stopped enforcing it."

The DoD has *suspended* enforcement. It's not under a court order, it could resume enforcement at any time. The DoD has also appealed the ruling of the lower court. If the Supremes rule in favor of DADT then the military are stuck with enforcing it, until Congress gets its head un-wedged again. Years from now, in a galaxy far, far away.

Posted by: fzdybel | December 9, 2010 9:26 PM | Report abuse

"There is no Constitutional right to serve in the armed forces."

The Constitution doesn't say anything about having standing armed forces, either.

The Second Amendment does however guarantee your right to serve as part of a "well regulated" local regiment of the irregular military of the United States of America.

Given that the founders didn't believe that there should be standing armed forces, the Constitution gives as much support as ever it can to the idea that you have a right to serve, if otherwise qualified.

Posted by: fzdybel | December 9, 2010 9:38 PM | Report abuse

"Funny that the whole wikileaks scandal was started by a disgruntled, aggrieved gay military private angry over Don't Ask Don't Tell hurting his feelings. No one wants to talk about that..."Posted by: cartmaneric | December 9, 2010 9:24 PM

Ok. Let's talk about it. What do you want to say?

I am gay. I think the wikileaks treachery is abhorrent. Both this guy and the guy who is behind it (and being held on heterosexual rape charges)ought to have the full weight of the law come down hard on them both.

Now what is it you want to talk about?

Posted by: ricklinguist | December 9, 2010 9:42 PM | Report abuse

"The DoD has *suspended* enforcement. It's not under a court order, it could resume enforcement at any time."Posted by: fzdybel | December 9, 2010 9:26 PM

True.

In the meantime, more and more openly gay service members will continue to serve.

Openly.

And it won't make a bit of difference to "unit cohesion" or anything else.

That's the point.

And, even if not lifted, eventually, the policy will simply be ignored as completely irrelevant, just as many other policies are today.

Posted by: ricklinguist | December 9, 2010 9:55 PM | Report abuse

"It has everything to do with normalize an aberrant behavior in front of the American people."

Apart from the fact that people believed to be gay are already serving in combat, the above is why nobody is much concerned about your estimation of the battleground risks. You've made it clear to all of us that the basis of your opinions is your belief that gay people are "aberrant."

Posted by: fzdybel | December 9, 2010 9:56 PM | Report abuse

"the policy will simply be ignored as completely irrelevant, just as many other policies are today."

That's the whole problem. DADT is not a policy. It is a law, sworn to be upheld. I'm sure the implementation will grow much more benign, but apparently enforcement will continue to be a political issue. If the administration changes hands, all that can change again.

The stakes in repealing DADT now are greater than you think.

Posted by: fzdybel | December 9, 2010 10:05 PM | Report abuse

"I'd be glad to have the TSA guy, gay or str8 even check my body cavities"

You are a very strange person. Were you abused as a child?

Posted by: Ombudsman1 | December 9, 2010 10:39 PM | Report abuse

Next step: Find a cure for homosexuality

It is as biologically normal as pedophilia

DADT?...The Homosexual soldier, Pfc. Manning, who stole the documents for wikileaks told....national secrets

A mental illness is not a civil right nor a reason for accommodation

Posted by: georgedixon1 | December 9, 2010 11:08 PM | Report abuse

This whole thing is ridiculous. Discrimination is illegal, stupid, and counterproductive. What is so hard about just getting rid of DADT? This is what it comes down to...a bunch of right wing religious fanatics stuck back in their teen-age years voting to discriminate against an entire class of people and refusing to acknowledge that their advocacy of the status quo is nothing but bald-faced discrimination. What a crock of #hi$ this is. What a disgrace. This does nothing but show the rest of the world what hypocrites we are, when it comes to freedom and equal rights for all. There is no such thing in Amerika.

Posted by: Chagasman | December 9, 2010 11:11 PM | Report abuse

CHAPTER 37 OF TITLE 10, UNITED STATES CODE, IS AMENDED BY ADDING AT THE END THE FOLLOWING NEW SECTION: 654. Policy concerning homosexuality in the armed forces
(A) FINDINGS.-CONGRESS MAKES THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS:

1. SECTION 8 OF ARTICLE I OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES COMMITS EXCLUSIVELY TO THE CONGRESS THE POWERS TO RAISE AND SUPPORT ARMIES, PROVIDE AND MAINTAIN A NAVY, AND MAKE RULES FOR THE GOVERNMENT AND REGULATION OF THE LAND AND NAVAL FORCES.

2. THERE IS NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO SERVE IN THE ARMED FORCES.

Posted by: screwjob23 | December 9, 2010 11:14 PM | Report abuse

hey capeheart, good to know the military is about securing its members basic dignity. this whole time i thought it was about unit cohesion of battle units and protecting america, even if it means restricting the civil rights of its members. DADT lives and amen to that.

Posted by: dummypants | December 9, 2010 11:15 PM | Report abuse

"Next step: Find a cure for homosexuality"

Oh, it's on its way, but not because homosexuality is abnormal (it occurs in many species) but because parents want grandchildren.

The technology will have something to do with development inside the womb. Suppose the first technology available is a pre-natal test at four months of pregnancy. Would you support the abortion of homosexual fetuses at the choice of the parents?

Posted by: fzdybel | December 10, 2010 12:58 AM | Report abuse

If the government can not find the political will to solve this problem then the courts will. By the way many of the same arguments against repeal were used to justify discrimination and segregation of Blacks in the military.

Posted by: kenbishop | December 10, 2010 2:14 AM | Report abuse

""But when striking a blow against discrimination and for people's right to basic dignity, it's damned well worth it."
---JC, 12/9/2010

Ah, but the author is on record that it's OK for the disabled who can't walk through an airport scanner to be groped in violation of their 4th amendment rights regarding unreasonable search and seizure and their ADA rights to equivalent treatment.

His idea of “rights to basic dignity” seems to apply only to certain groups."

Personally, I oppose repealing DADT on moral grounds and also because it would be unconscionable to expect young straight men (some of who would undoubtedly be a potential prey) to bunk with openly homosexual men. People get so caught up in the 'rights' talk that they forget morality and common sense. I ask these same people who support DADT: do you think that young women should bunk with young men in the same barracks?

Posted by: miyago123 | December 10, 2010 4:49 AM | Report abuse

"Alike for the nation and the individual, the one indispensable requisite is character--character that does and dares as well as endures, character that is active in the performance of virtue no less than firm in the refusal to do aught that is vicious or degraded."  Theodore Roosevelt, The Outlook, March 31, 1900.                                                                         

For the rest of this thesis plus 9 other reasons against repeal, see: http://www.thebutter-cutter.com/Marines_of_Conscience_or_Ho.php

Posted by: MAJUSMCRET | December 10, 2010 6:24 AM | Report abuse

"The Homosexual soldier, Pfc. Manning, who stole the documents for wikileaks told....national secrets..."Posted by: georgedixon1 | December 9, 2010 11:08 PM |

With respect, are you referring to that white male Protestant, Pfc. Manning?

Or do you only demonize the "gay" part of traitors?

Posted by: ricklinguist | December 10, 2010 7:03 AM | Report abuse

Gays, as this country now stands, simply would be at risk were they posted in combat situations with our men.
Posted by: wjc1v

They always have been, they are now and they always will be. The question is how long will America continue this theocon witch hunt against them?

NCIS looks like hereos on TV but the truth is they spend most of their time ferreting out gays. If the military doesn't want gays, they should stop recruiting them.

Send all recruits (and all TSA agents who will be fondling male stuff) off to Provo, Utah, where the Mormons have patented a penile sensor to detect sinful arousal in those shown homosexual ponograpy (including to minors in clear violation of State and Federal criminal law).

Here's their patent for this devise they used not only to detect gays but also to "cure" them by torturing them with electrical shock:

http://www.salamandersociety.com/sexuality/torture/

All male members of congress and evangelical pastors like Haggart should be sent there, too.

Posted by: areyousaying | December 10, 2010 8:12 AM | Report abuse


A Great Victory has Been Won
Over the Forces of Homosexuality

With the DEFEAT of the effort to repeal the DADT policy in the U.S. Senate in the late afternoon of December 9, 2010, a Great Victory has Been Won Over the Forces of Homosexuality.

Every American who understands the mortal danger that America faces to her very survival with each advance of the homosexual agenda, they can breathe a great sigh of relief at this victory, for the thin blue line held, and the nation stepped back, for a moment, from a head long plunge into the abyss of self-destruction.

However, now is NOT the time to lay back, and bask in the afterglow of a victorious campaign. Now is the time to muster the troops anew, and to carry the battle forward, in pursuit of the retreating, cowering, and fleeing forces of darkness. Let our trumpets of victory ring out, that never again, could the forces of darkness come so close as to battering down the very gate of the American castle of truth and moral sanity. Summon now the forces of heaven, for they alone are up to the final task of delivering our nation into a new day of hope, and purity.

To that end, let this prayer be on the lips of every patriot.

O God, my Dear Heavenly Father, I Am That I Am, indeed, whose precious child I am, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, please send legions of Holy Angels now, marching triumphantly, to cast out all homosexuals from the U.S. Military, from all positions within our National Security Establishment, and from every position of responsibility in whatever department of American life they have entered with their corrupting spirit, especially throughout the educational institutions of our land, and in every department of the mass media, and throughout all government institutions, local, state and federal. Deliver our nation O God from the horror of this dark shadow of moral insanity. Fully accepting the promise of the Lord Jesus Christ, that that which I ask of you, in his name, that you will do. I therefore accept it done right now with full power. Amen.

Every person, indeed every patriot, who is interested in the survival of America as a free and prosperous nation, should say this prayer every morning for the rest of their life. When your eyes open in the morning, reach for the paper that this prayer is printed on, and say it. In this way, will we never again have to face the prospect of so closely dodging such a fatal bullet, dripping with the poison of sinister intent, aimed at the very heart of our nation.

Posted by: GoldenEagles | December 10, 2010 8:14 AM | Report abuse

stop making fakefun&feelgood-experiences as law, 'being' gay is a convenient lie, mind-control-illne$$e$$ comparable with feminism, the making of abnormalities. a dirty feminized homophile gender-war aginst children&fathers, hetero's and normal families, destroying children&(wo)men, charactermurder&male-genocide, infanticide (abortion is murder), divorce is in essence familymurder on mostly children&fathers, fatherless-defathered (lesbian) housholds are criminal, gov't-violence&mothermafia, feminism is by definition worse than racism, feminism destroys our world, women's rights are inhuman, stop falsifying terms-norms-laws, rechange the backwarding pedo&pseudological delusions of the last 50yrs into true progression, we don't need equality we already have constitutional&human rights, we alreaday have equal treatment!

Posted by: advader | December 10, 2010 8:45 AM | Report abuse

Jonathan continues to shill for Barack Obama, putting his racial tribalism above sexual orientation solidarity, as has become his disgusting norm.

It was, of course, Barack Obama's "plan" that failed yesterday. And while Capehart showers the man with praise, real reporters, as opposed to fan clubs, have noted his failure. The AP, for instance, reports that "in recent weeks the White House has done little to push the legislation...."

Keep praising the first black president solely because he's black, Jonathan. No one in the gay community has a shred of respect for you anymore.

Posted by: uh_huhh | December 10, 2010 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Our son's life was SAVED by a Gay soldier, who sacrificed his life so our HETERoSEXUAL son could live.

'enough said

Posted by: adjc | December 10, 2010 9:24 AM | Report abuse

the same argument that is being made now to "keep gays out of the military" (they're there, people!) was made in the 1950s when Truman integrated black and white soldiers. It will kill morale, their lives will be at risk, etc. etc. No one would ever think about segregation now and in 50 years, people will look back and wonder what all the fuss was about. And yes, I am a 20 year veteran and a Christian.

Posted by: rocketman5 | December 10, 2010 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Take an anonymous poll of all military personnel and see what they want.

Posted by: rexreddy | December 10, 2010 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Whole lotta bigots in ITT. Pretty sure GoldenEagles is gay. Me thinks he doth protest too much.

Posted by: AhhYes | December 10, 2010 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Take an anonymous poll of all military personnel and see what they want.

Posted by: rexreddy | December 10, 2010 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Take an anonymous poll of all military personnel and see what they want.

Posted by: rexreddy | December 10, 2010 10:06 AM

As a former Marine, I can say with confidence, "Who cares what military personnel want?"

Seriously. We don't ask them which hills they want to take, which brown people they are told to kill, or which nations to arbitrarily invade. Their opinion is irrelevant, as it should be. One of the more important aspects of keeping this nation free is civilian control of the military. They do what the civilians say they do and nothing more. Period.

Posted by: AhhYes | December 10, 2010 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Collins is, was and always will be a fraud. She voted only after she knew her vote wouldn't count and everyone knows it.

Posted by: mtravali | December 10, 2010 10:37 AM | Report abuse

AhhYes, if the military only does what its civilian leaders say, how do you explain My Lai, Abu Ghraib, and the rape of so many military women by their heterosexual male counterparts?

GoldenEagles, I can’t tell whether you’re being ironic or not. In the event you’re not, God has apparently decided gays can serve cuz they’re already there. I doubt any exhortations from you are going to change that.

mtravali, Sen. Collins is a political animal. A certain amount of posturing, what you prefer to call fraud, is inevitable.

Dr. Capehart, with comments like what I'm reading here openly gay soldiers will be in for a rough time after DADT gets repealed. Mercy!

Posted by: MsJS | December 10, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

MsJS; all,

you are CORRECT. - IF "open homosexual behavior" is ever REQUIRED by law or judicial decision, EXPECT to have NUMEROUS "blanket parties", "accidental falls", "criminal assaults by unknown assailants", "peculiar deaths of an unexplained and/or accidental nature", "fatal & non-fatal training accidents" and/or "possible suicides" among the "openly gay members".====> i was an investigating officer (for several CONUS/OCONUS commands) for well over half of my military career & a MP NCO, CID Agent & "Supervisory Special Agent" of USACIDC for several other years & i KNOW what i'm talking about.

the investigators of the several military law enforcement agencies (AFOSI, USACID, NCIS, DCIS, etc) will investigate these "serious incidents", when/IF they are reported & we will (mostly) be told exactly NOTHING of "an evidentury nature" by "witnesses", that can actually be used "to further the investigation". = the military members involved will say NOTHING whatever (instead, they will call the local JAG office & will be told by their lawyer to "just shut up".) in most cases, just as the "fraggings", that i investigated in another long-ago war, were seldom ever "solved" and/or "adequately explained".

readers may NOT like what i just said BUT i have told you THE TRUTH.

my suggestion to "gay people" is: either stay OUT of the military services OR "keep a really low profile", as "open homosexual behavior" will be accepted by NOBODY, who is NOT a homosexual. = FACT!

yours, TN46
USA, Retired

Posted by: texasnative46 | December 10, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

America as a whole DOES NOT WANT DADT. The vast majority of active service men/women don't want DADT (only 8% were positive in survey- whose resuts were slanted when presented).

This is NOT an equality issue like that with minorities and African Americans-- which is immutable and unchangeable, homosexuality IS changeable. There is NO gay gene, no scientific study proving a gay gene.

There are milions of ex-gays, never met an ex-African American. Theres a difference and most African Americans understand that and are apalled at the comparison

America is tired of the homosexual issue being rammed down its throat by a small mnority of activists.

Posted by: xtracare13 | December 10, 2010 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Jonathan Capehart,

Do you just start these comment threads, then skip off to tea ?

I've asked you 3 times to identify your standing in this matter.

1. Have you served in the Armed Forces ?

2. You want the Gays to be open about it.
Can you ?

Posted by: lavellemh | December 10, 2010 1:20 PM | Report abuse

The present policy of "Don't Ask; Keep Sucking" is the best one for the safety of queers who would be beat to death in combat zones by soldiers who distrusted them.

Posted by: BBRADFORD2 | December 10, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

"IF 'open homosexual behavior' is ever REQUIRED by law or judicial decision, EXPECT to have NUMEROUS 'blanket parties', 'accidental falls', 'criminal assaults by unknown assailants', 'peculiar deaths of an unexplained and/or accidental nature', 'fatal & non-fatal training accidents' and/or 'possible suicides'"

NOT to mention "criminal investigations", "courts martial", "disciplinary actions", "ruined careers", convictions for "voluntary manslaughter" and "time spent in the military penal system".

Posted by: fzdybel | December 10, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

"how do you explain My Lai, Abu Ghraib, and the rape of so many military women by their heterosexual male counterparts?"

Mylai was caused by breakdown in the chain of command. Abu Ghraib was caused by a breakdown at the highest levels of civilian command. The rapes are because we don't provide our soldiers with "comfort women."

The idea that combat units operate in some kind of legal and command free-fall is ludicrous. This is coming down from the top, and it's going to be a part of every officer's ER: what have you done to eliminate homophobia and promote unit cohesion.

Posted by: fzdybel | December 10, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

fzdybel; all,

actually, my compatriot-in-arms is 100% correct about the results of "open service by homosexuals".
furthermore, TN is also correct in saying that few investigations of "untoward events involving homosexuals" will "amount to much", as they will either be "swept under the rug" and/or will end without any Article 15, significant administrative action(s) and/or courts martial, due to "a lack of admissible evidence".
(TN is correct about JAGC officers immediately telling "everyone involved" to say nothing whatever to investigators/the brass/anyone, lest they also "get involved in" an Article 32 Investigation and/or being subject to being charged under the Code, "as a person of interest".)

fyi, like most MP personnel of the RVN period, i too was involved in "fragging investigations", "unusual event" & "line of duty"/LOD investigations. - the vast majority of those investigations ended without any convictions, as nobody was willing to "talk" to the PM/CID people.
(personally, i was "strongly cautioned by" a senior officer, MG/0-8, about "poking about in things that are none of your affair" in a LOD involving an Army Aviator/W-2, who died "under extremely suspicious circumstances". = after over 4 months of "looking about" for actual evidence, i accomplished nothing & simply wasted a lot of my time & Army $$$$$, as nobody "gave me anything of worth".)

TN is also correct about homosexual SM "keeping a low profile".

sincerely, Retired MP46

Posted by: retiredMP46 | December 10, 2010 5:45 PM | Report abuse

"sincerely, Retired MP46"

I have no doubt it was just as you say. That was one of the problems with DADT.

Notice my use of the past tense. Officers who cannot deal with this problem will not advance in grade. Period.

Posted by: fzdybel | December 11, 2010 2:06 AM | Report abuse

"sincerely, Retired MP46"

To clarify further, this kind of criminal misbehavior is no longer going to be left to ineffectual investigation after the fact. There's going to be new training and doctrine to get in front of the problem, and compliance is going to be tracked as part of unit evaluation. There will also be new doctrine for recruitment. That's what Sec'y Gates wants the time for.

Posted by: fzdybel | December 11, 2010 2:25 AM | Report abuse

fzdybel; all,

to "fzdybel": sadly for you, you are "living in a bubble" of wishful thinking, arrogant ignorance of facts & "you know NOT & know NOT that you know NOT".

repeal of DADT will not happen the way that you believe it will. - you simply don't know enough about the armed services to have a knowledgeable opinion. = nobody of any rank will be injured by not accepting sexual pervesion by homosexuals serving "openly", except those who engage in homosexual conduct.

what will happen (at first) is a lot of homosexuals will get hurt, court-martialed for their behavior and/or "die under suspicious circumstances". then, the remaining homosexuals in the forces will keep a "really low public profile" & everything will be about as it is now.
("open service" is an invitation to violence against "open service" homosexuals & nothing more than that.)

sincerely, Retired MP46

Posted by: retiredMP46 | December 13, 2010 5:24 PM | Report abuse

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