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Posted at 8:16 AM ET, 01/ 5/2011

Mindless opposition to Obamacare

By Matt Miller

How mindless does it get? Republican Rep. Phil Roe of Tennessee takes the new year's first prize. On MSNBC's The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell Monday night, Roe griped that Obamacare was fatally flawed, and he boasted that he wasn't going to avail himself of the congressional health-care plan, whose choice among private insurance options resembles the structure of Obama's reform. When O'Donnell pointed out that this was hardly a sacrifice, because Roe is 65 and thus covered by Medicare -- a single-payer scheme more socialistic than the Obama-like plan that the congressmen had snubbed -- Roe was nonplussed. The problem with Medicare, Roe explained, is that there are no private-insurance alternatives to the government-run program for seniors from which he can choose.

Earth to Congressman Roe: Medicare was created in 1965 precisely because there ARE NO viable private insurance alternatives for people over 65. Older Americans are uninsurable in the private market! That's because they tend to get expensively sick, a lot. That GOP officials can make this mindless "anti-government" critique -- and doubtless find plenty of dittoheads out there nodding in agreement -- leaves one breathless. And maybe hopeless.

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By Matt Miller  | January 5, 2011; 8:16 AM ET
Categories:  Miller  | Tags:  Matt Miller  
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Comments

If only we old people had the good sense to, when getting sick, just die. But we are too selfish, I guess.

Posted by: jprfrog | January 5, 2011 8:58 AM | Report abuse

I don't think its his policies as much as Obama, the man, that some Republicans have a problem with. It's sad for our country that seemingly whatever he proposes, some will make that their mission to oppose. I pray for strength for our president and wisdom for all our leaders.

Posted by: cib2 | January 5, 2011 9:02 AM | Report abuse

This artical is obviously pro Obama. It is so biased that there is no reason to even discuss it. Post, where do you find these people?

Posted by: Really22 | January 5, 2011 9:16 AM | Report abuse

This artical is obviously pro Obama. It is so biased that there is no reason to even discuss it. Post, where do you find these people?

Posted by: Really22 | January 5, 2011 9:17 AM | Report abuse

cib, I hear ya. But I'm afraid it's too late. Too many goobers have been indoctrinated.

Check it out: http://www.picselate.com/forget-facts#

Posted by: osmor | January 5, 2011 9:17 AM | Report abuse

yup. really22 proves it: Facts don't count to them.

Posted by: osmor | January 5, 2011 9:19 AM | Report abuse

You have to "love it" when liberal WAPO shills continue their vile verbal assault on Americans - "mindless" - after losing the election.

Keep it up Democrats. The PEOPLE of America show you the exit door in 2012 too.

When it comes to halting Socialism and replacing OBamacare in the USA, we can borrow a phrase from your illegal alien factions - "Yes. We Can!"

Posted by: Patriot12 | January 5, 2011 9:29 AM | Report abuse

WE CAN"T AFFORD TO PROVIDE FREE HEALTH CARE TO ALL....jeez, we're drowning in debt and ppl want more freebies...is this how liberals run their own households????

Posted by: mjandrews8 | January 5, 2011 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Here's a more accurate statement"

Mindless support for Obamacare...

Posted by: honorswar26 | January 5, 2011 9:39 AM | Report abuse

And Schumer saying anyone who opposes Obamacare should not buy health insurance for themselves and family isn't mindless?

Posted by: kitchendragon50 | January 5, 2011 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Mindless Opposition to something that was rammed thru in partisan manner without the support of a majority of the American people?

Posted by: tiecorp | January 5, 2011 9:46 AM | Report abuse

WE CAN"T AFFORD TO PROVIDE FREE HEALTH CARE TO ALL....jeez, we're drowning in debt and ppl want more freebies...is this how liberals run their own households????

Posted by: mjandrews8

=====================

mjandrews8 - We'll take your comment that you'll opt out of Medicare and Social Security when it's your time. Thank you from the taxpayers for financing your health care out of your own savings - forever.

What's that? You're entitled to those programs because you paid taxes? Too bad. WE CAN"T AFFORD TO PROVIDE FREE HEALTH CARE TO ALL - including YOU. Jerk.

Posted by: B-rod | January 5, 2011 9:46 AM | Report abuse

'Mindless' is a great word to describe the GOP

Posted by: SmallBusiness | January 5, 2011 9:52 AM | Report abuse

For a politician in these times, it truly pays to be stupid. Too many citizens believe without thinking. The problem is that the world is changing and we will need to adapt if we plan on continuing to have a country. Conservatives would probably be content with a police state.

Welcome to Bladerunner and you might think of signing up to make your future in the off-world colonies.

Posted by: kknutton | January 5, 2011 9:56 AM | Report abuse

If it was "Bushcare" you wouldn't hear a peek.

Posted by: danielburke3 | January 5, 2011 9:58 AM | Report abuse

If it was "Bushcare" you wouldn't hear a peek.

Posted by: danielburke3 | January 5, 2011 9:59 AM | Report abuse

If 60% of Americans are against ObamaCare, why is this "Mindless Opposition" to the author? Perhaps, as an Obama disciple and acolyte he is guilty of mindless opposition to any criticism of the Obama socialist agenda. In a Republic like ours, the elected representatives are expected to uphold the wishes of their constituents, otherwise the voters will throw them out of office as they did on November 2, 2010.

Posted by: 1republican | January 5, 2011 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Not only is this guy covered by Medicare, he gets health care from the Attending Physician for $503/month. If you're making $100K+, as his salary is, I'd say that's basically free, government provided health care.

Maybe he ought to introduce a resolution increasing the payments for his GOVERNMENT PROVIDED HEALTH CARE!

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 5, 2011 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Check it out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attending_Physician_of_the_United_States_Congress

Posted by: dpc2003 | January 5, 2011 10:16 AM | Report abuse

"What's that? You're entitled to those programs because you paid taxes? Too bad. WE CAN"T AFFORD TO PROVIDE FREE HEALTH CARE TO ALL - including YOU. Jerk.

Posted by: B-rod | January 5, 2011 9:46 AM | Report abuse"
_________________________________________

Its not free to him/her. You acknowledged he/her paid taxes. Its the 47% that don't pay federal income taxes that are the problem. Nice try though

Posted by: JDB1 | January 5, 2011 10:20 AM | Report abuse

1republican,

60% are not opposed to the health care bill. That's a number Republicans have been spewing for months with no statistical backup, not that that's surprising.

The real numbers are actually in favor of the bill. According to the latest CNN poll, 37% oppose the bill. 47% want the bill to stay in place. And 16% feel the bill is not strong enough.

So Republicans are not moving on the will of the people; they're acting on the will of the 28% in this country who call themselves Republicans. That's no mandate.

Posted by: pathfinder12 | January 5, 2011 10:21 AM | Report abuse

If 60% of Americans are against ObamaCare, why is this "Mindless Opposition" to the author? Perhaps, as an Obama disciple and acolyte he is guilty of mindless opposition to any criticism of the Obama socialist agenda. In a Republic like ours, the elected representatives are expected to uphold the wishes of their constituents, otherwise the voters will throw them out of office as they did on November 2, 2010.

Posted by: 1republican
===========================================
60% against includes 13% that felt it is too weak needing a public option, not repeal. The rust belt GOP sweep in 2010 had little to do with health care and much to do with lack of job creation while Wall St. records record profits. The people want a job but elect people that support outsourcing.

Posted by: jameschirico | January 5, 2011 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Maybe it shouldn't have been so mindlessly passed.

In an attempt to "get something done", they passed a really bad entitlement, that does little more than redistribute health care.

What we really needed, but didn't get, was health care reform that addressed the cost of health care for all Americans.

Posted by: postfan1 | January 5, 2011 10:22 AM | Report abuse

wapo shills like cheese with their wine

Posted by: pofinpa | January 5, 2011 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Here is to the indoctrinated republican mouthpieces that choose not to think for themselves ... first, READ, UNDERSTAND, and INFORM inform yourselves on the health-care bill before you run your mouth on socialism and the runaway costs to taxpayers ... second, THINK about what the status quo means to you ... insurance companies can drop you if you start to get sick (as in when you start to age) ... this happened to me ... I have been healthy my whole life, non-smoker, no drugs, no risky behavior, exercise, play sports ... but as I started to age my back started to ache ... I was diagnosed with degenerative disk disease ... guess what? ... everybody gets it; your disks will begin to be less spongy just as you will start to need reading glasses after you turn 40 ... so, after paying all my insurance premiums my whole life and using health-care services sparingly, my health-care provider decided that it would drop me because of my "deteriorating condition" ... mind you, I am perfectly healthy and have managed my discomfort with ibuprofen and more exercise directed at improving my mid-section ... even my doctor blasted my health-care provider into submission so I could get back in the plan ... he called me the "ideal candidate" for coverage because of my health history and condition ... this is the kind of nonsense that needs to be addressed ... also, requiring everyone to pay into the pool of insurance is the best way to make sure the rest of us don't end up picking up the tab for the uninsured who still go get services from more expensive emergency rooms ... these are the kind of things the health-care bill addresses ... stop bashing what you don't understand ...

Posted by: goCubs | January 5, 2011 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Keep it up Democrats. The PEOPLE of America show you the exit door in 2012 too.

When it comes to halting Socialism

==

As if you could distinguish socialism from a tear in your pants.

The GOP is already shooting itself in the feet and it's only the first day.

You bloody fool.

Posted by: caothien9 | January 5, 2011 10:27 AM | Report abuse

This artical is obviously pro Obama. It is so biased that there is no reason to even discuss it. Post, where do you find these people?"

****

Pro Obama? The a hole whined that there are no private insurance plans that would cover seniors and complained that he had to go on Medicare. The reason there isn't a private insurance company that covers seniors is because would be a losing venture. Period. That's the free market and that's what you get when the idealistic free market naturally fails when there is no profit to be scored.

This article isn't Pro-Obama. It's pro common sense.

Something your Republican party simply has no clue nor care about.

Here's an idea, why don't you start up a private insurance company just for Seniors so this a hole can join and you can go belly up in 5 hours.

Posted by: dcp26851 | January 5, 2011 10:30 AM | Report abuse

If 60% of Americans are against ObamaCare

==

Devil's in the details, CHUMP

Posted by: caothien9 | January 5, 2011 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Never mind political disagreement, People who advocate free market solutions to important things like healthcare or environmental degradation should be tied to a post in the public square, stripped to the waist and horsewhipped down to the god damned bone.

Posted by: caothien9 | January 5, 2011 10:38 AM | Report abuse

There are many factual errors among the posts here. First - no one - repeat - no one is talking about free care! Medicare beneficiaries pay monthly premiums/$162 annual deductible, and 20% co-insurance. Nothing in the Health Care Reform bill allows FREE insurance.

Second - support for Healthcare Reform is split 50/50. It's simply untrue and wishful thinking to say that a majority of Americans. See here from Kaiser Family Foundation: http://facts.kff.org/chart.aspx?ch=1456 As a matter of fact, right now, the favorable/unfavorable is 42%pro/40%con.

You can dismiss these of course but KFF is pretty non-partisan.

I imagine that many of the people arguing that this is a socialist/fascist plot (which is oxymoronic) consider themselves proud Soldiers of Christ. The Jesus that I learned about (shown me by my parents, and preached every Sunday by my Nazarene minister Grandfather) was most concerned for those least among us. If you ask what would Jesus do - put your money where that religion you so self-righteously wear on your sleeve is. Peace be with the trolls on this forum.

Posted by: CJamesJr | January 5, 2011 10:40 AM | Report abuse

-------
People who advocate free market solutions to important things like healthcare or environmental degradation should be tied to a post in the public square, stripped to the waist and horsewhipped down to the god damned bone.
---------

... and you forgot, then be denied health-care for pre-existing stupidity ...

Posted by: goCubs | January 5, 2011 10:40 AM | Report abuse

-------
People who advocate free market solutions to important things like healthcare or environmental degradation should be tied to a post in the public square, stripped to the waist and horsewhipped down to the god damned bone.
---------

... and you forgot, then be denied health-care for pre-existing stupidity ...

Posted by: goCubs | January 5, 2011 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Well, one thing is for sure - based on comments here, Roe is not the last word on STUPID!

Posted by: LABC | January 5, 2011 10:48 AM | Report abuse

@goCubs: they get one bandaid but if they ask for anything for the pain they get arrested for drug solicitation

Posted by: caothien9 | January 5, 2011 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Mr. Miller, if you are looking for someone mindless please take a good look in the mirror. Medicare annual costs began in mid 60's at $4-$5BN, in 1990 they exceeded $90BN and today they're quickly approaching $.5TN ($500BN). Also, due to a very low reimbursement rates and bureaucrocy many doctors simply refuse to accept new Medicare patients.
Try to stay in touch with reality, Mr. Miller!

Posted by: jmk55 | January 5, 2011 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Congressman Grayson was correct. The Republican answer to the health care crisis is to just accept the death panel decision by the health insurance industry and die quickly. AETNA, Cigna, and US Healthcare etc., are all willing to take your money as long as your healthy but if you get sick then their answer is eff uuu and die.

Posted by: hateisnotafamilyvalue | January 5, 2011 10:59 AM | Report abuse

The current healthcare program passed by the Democratic congress does nothing to help the cost of healthcare nor does it do anything for the people who cannot afford, mandatory or not, to buy good health insurance (approximately 16M people). It is a health insurance regulating bill that does nothing to help those that need access to healthcare. Certainly anyone with any common sense that followed the process and realized that many if not most of even the Democratic supporters never even read the bill knows that it needs to be recended some of its good features taken and put in a series of healthcare bills that do something about access and availabilty as well attack the costs. We can start with tort reform, of course that will not happen given that the Trial Lawyers Association, now mislabled as the American Association for Justice, will never let that happen by simply cutting off all the money they supply the Democrats. Get real and get real healthcare legislature passed.

Posted by: staterighter | January 5, 2011 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Opposition to ObamaCare is not mindless. It was the passage of ObamaCare that was mindless. How could Congress pass a bill that would cost America $1.4TT and literally not know what was in it? They certainly were not thinking about improving the nation's health care.

Posted by: mike85 | January 5, 2011 11:05 AM | Report abuse

I have a serious interest in getting an answer to a question from the tea-partiers, neo-cons, and religous that thump the Bible, wave the US Flag, and rant about the US Constitution ... yet act in the opposite direction ... as in not reach out to the less fortunate, undermine civil liberties, and condemn initiatives directed at assisting all Americans ...

Before I ask the question, I want to share with you that I am hardly a liberal ... I consider myself a Reagan-Republican (George H. Bush fan too) who turned Independent due to the republican hypocrisy and absurdity of the George W. Bush era ... Reagan and the elder Bush were self-made men who I respect and admire ... George W. Bush is an underachiever who leverage his father's influence and learned the ugly side of politics in the backrooms of Texas ...

Here's the question ...

Given your stance on limiting initiatives like the health-care bill ... and indeed call them socialist initiatives ... initiatives that seek to benefit all Americans ... and is based on having all Americans pull together to make it happen ...

Do you consider the motto of the United States (up to 1956 at least) to be a socialist notion?

BTW ... the pre 1956 US motto was ... "E Pluribus Unum" ... which means "Out of Many, One" ... but was loosely translated as "United We Stand" ...

Posted by: goCubs | January 5, 2011 11:08 AM | Report abuse

I have a serious interest in getting an answer to a question from the tea-partiers, neo-cons, and religous that thump the Bible, wave the US Flag, and rant about the US Constitution ... yet act in the opposite direction ... as in not reach out to the less fortunate, undermine civil liberties, and condemn initiatives directed at assisting all Americans ...

Before I ask the question, I want to share with you that I am hardly a liberal ... I consider myself a Reagan-Republican (George H. Bush fan too) who turned Independent due to the republican hypocrisy and absurdity of the George W. Bush era ... Reagan and the elder Bush were self-made men who I respect and admire ... George W. Bush is an underachiever who leverage his father's influence and learned the ugly side of politics in the backrooms of Texas ...

Here's the question ...

Given your stance on limiting initiatives like the health-care bill ... and indeed call them socialist initiatives ... initiatives that seek to benefit all Americans ... and is based on having all Americans pull together to make it happen ...

Do you consider the motto of the United States (up to 1956 at least) to be a socialist notion?

BTW ... the pre 1956 US motto was ... "E Pluribus Unum" ... which means "Out of Many, One" ... but was loosely translated as "United We Stand" ...

Posted by: goCubs | January 5, 2011 11:08 AM | Report abuse

I have a serious interest in getting an answer to a question from the tea-partiers, neo-cons, and religous that thump the Bible, wave the US Flag, and rant about the US Constitution ... yet act in the opposite direction ... as in not reach out to the less fortunate, undermine civil liberties, and condemn initiatives directed at assisting all Americans ...

Before I ask the question, I want to share with you that I am hardly a liberal ... I consider myself a Reagan-Republican (George H. Bush fan too) who turned Independent due to the republican hypocrisy and absurdity of the George W. Bush era ... Reagan and the elder Bush were self-made men who I respect and admire ... George W. Bush is an underachiever who leverage his father's influence and learned the ugly side of politics in the backrooms of Texas ...

Here's the question ...

Given your stance on limiting initiatives like the health-care bill ... and indeed call them socialist initiatives ... initiatives that seek to benefit all Americans ... and is based on having all Americans pull together to make it happen ...

Do you consider the motto of the United States (up to 1956 at least) to be a socialist notion?

BTW ... the pre 1956 US motto was ... "E Pluribus Unum" ... which means "Out of Many, One" ... but was loosely translated as "United We Stand" ...

Posted by: goCubs | January 5, 2011 11:09 AM | Report abuse

The actual 'problem' with Medicare is that it doesn't pay for itself but requires a huge,open-ended government subsidy. And that's what we should expect from Obamacare.

Posted by: cray1710 | January 5, 2011 11:11 AM | Report abuse

If Medicare is so great, why does government penalize you, if you don't sign up?

The Clintons started deducting Medicare premiums from Social Security checks to force people to pay for Medicare coverage they don't want. Why the coercion?

If Medicare is so great, why does the Government force people to give up the right to pay a doctor more than Medicare is willing to pay the doctor?

With private insurance, the insurance company pays a fixed amount, but the insured sick person retains the right to pay more for better quality services. No rights are surrendered when you buy provate insurance and until Obamacare, no one forced you to buy private insurance.

Only government forces people to give up rights and choices in exchange for something they have been paying for in every paycheck since the 1960s.

If it's so great, why force people to do things they don't wany to do?

There may be a legitimate role for government to fill in cracks in the free market.
Health insurance for old people may be an example of such a crack in the market. The question is: Why does Government force people to do things instead of offering choices?

A free people will not remain free, if they permit Government to behave in this way.

The Declaration of Indpendence says our rights as a free people are unalienable. Unalienable means we can't sell these rights to government even if we agree on a price.

The Founders of our country foresaw that tyrants would bribe people to give up their rights, because that is how tyrannts gained power before the American Revolution.

Medicare is a good example of Government trying to make our unalienable rights alienable just as tyrannts have always done throughout history.

If Government wants to fix problems and do good deeeds, please do it without bribing us to give up our unalienable rights.

Posted by: jfv123 | January 5, 2011 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Rep. Phil Roe has an excellent solution to resolving the fiscal deficit and reducing the cost of health care: Kill Medicare. Medicare costs the system tons of money that could be used to pay down the debt. Also, if you would just let those over 65 and uninsured to die, the first time they get sick and not to linger on endlessly, then this would greatly reduce the cost of health care. Half the people at the doctors office or elderly, and if you can cut that in half, that would be a 25% reduction in demand for health care just there. His ideas and his republican allies are excellent, unfortunately, they are not explained in a way that common folks fully understand.

Posted by: vidusa | January 5, 2011 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Never mind political disagreement, People who advocate free market solutions to important things like healthcare or environmental degradation should be tied to a post in the public square, stripped to the waist and horsewhipped down to the god damned bone.

Posted by: caothien9

===========================================

Don't you just love the tolerance and open mindedness of "Progressive" thinking?

Posted by: bbface21 | January 5, 2011 11:13 AM | Report abuse

This is right up there with "keep the government out of my Medicare." Profoundly stupid.

Posted by: Dadrick | January 5, 2011 11:15 AM | Report abuse

------
if you would just let those over 65 and uninsured to die, the first time they get sick and not to linger on endlessly, then this would greatly reduce the cost of health care. Half the people at the doctors office or elderly, and if you can cut that in half, that would be a 25% reduction in demand for health care just there. His ideas and his republican allies are excellent, unfortunately, they are not explained in a way that common folks fully understand.
----

oh ... this common folk understands ... very clearly ...

now, explain to me ... what was all that nonsense the republicans and tea-partiers were ranting on about death-panels in the health-care bill? ... how do you square that off against Roe's brilliant ideas?

Posted by: goCubs | January 5, 2011 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Hogwash!

"Obamacare" is a fiscal disaster and a threat to our freedoms and liberties. It's a cancer in the heart of the Republic and must be beaten down and destroyed.

Posted by: rplat | January 5, 2011 11:23 AM | Report abuse

jfv123 wrote:

"If Medicare is so great, why does government penalize you, if you don't sign up?"

Same reason it penalizes you for not paying your taxes - everyone benefits, but only if everyone participates. Think about it.


Posted by: Dadrick | January 5, 2011 11:25 AM | Report abuse

"You have to "love it" when liberal WAPO shills continue their vile verbal assault on Americans - "mindless" - after losing the election.

Keep it up Democrats. The PEOPLE of America show you the exit door in 2012 too.

When it comes to halting Socialism and replacing OBamacare in the USA, we can borrow a phrase from your illegal alien factions - "Yes. We Can!"


****

Given the catastrophic failure that Republican party has proven to be on all thing regarding our economy, Socialism or straight Communism would certainly prove to be a better alternative.

Posted by: dcp26851 | January 5, 2011 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Mindless opposition ?

Since Obamacare... businesses have laid off employees, reduced coverage, and increased premiums for millions ! thats mindless ?

Little reported yesterday... a private health group halted construction on 45 new hospitals. Yes Obamacare is a job-killer ! thats mindless ?

Obamacare is unaffortable and unsustainable. Even the CBO nows say it will cost 750,000 jobs !!

The Democrats choose to campaign without mentioning Obamacare... had they defended it... their House losses would have doubled. At least 40 Democrats actually ran on a REPEAL platform including the new Dem Senator Manchin from West Viginia.

You want mindless ? think Obamacare's supporters.

Posted by: pvilso24 | January 5, 2011 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Under the tea party and republican ideas: death pannels don't exist because you allow the free market decide who lives and who dies. Those who can't afford insurance: die. Those who can: live. Isn't that so much more simpler to understand and deal with than having a "panel of experts" balance costs with expectations of survival for each and every case of illness or injury. Its what you call freedom from "Big Brother" making decisions of life or death, or having "Big Brother" force you to have insurance and decide how to pay for it. We need minimalistic government. Government that defends our country, protects our business and rights to make profit, and government that gets out of the way so we can make money and profit. The only time government may be necessary is to protect our christian "american" values, our rights to carry guns, free speach except where it offends our Lord Jesus Christ and christian principles.

Posted by: vidusa | January 5, 2011 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Since at least the 1920s, when American liberalism began to be identified with the "intellectuals," liberals have found it easy to dismiss their critics as "mindless."

May one suggest that the tactic is, well, mindless?

Posted by: hambya | January 5, 2011 11:31 AM | Report abuse

As I told the relatives at Xmas, look around your family dinner table and decide who gets to die to beat back "socialism."

Every family has people who are currently uninsured or children with trivial "preexisting conditions."

Nearly every family has someone that the GOP would sentence to death to further their ideological agenda.

Posted by: BurfordHolly | January 5, 2011 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Why do you think they didn't know what was in it?

mike85 wrote:

How could Congress pass a bill that would cost America $1.4TT and literally not know what was in it?

Posted by: Dadrick | January 5, 2011 11:37 AM | Report abuse

People who state the US cannot afford to have everybody with Health Insurance ignore
the simple fact that many countries (less wealthy than the US) don't seem to have a problem insuring every citizen. Too many Americans live with the illusion that whatever the status quo is in the US it is the best in the world. It isn't. There is no
other developed nation in the world with 15%
of their population that must pay medical expenses out of their pocket or get free medical care only in the case of life threatening emergency. Repealing so called ObamaCare with nothing to replace it is sheer lunacy.

Posted by: serban1 | January 5, 2011 11:38 AM | Report abuse

vidusa wrote:
"Under the tea party and republican ideas: ... Those who can't afford insurance: die. Those who can: live. We need minimalistic government ... to protect our christian "american" values, our rights to carry guns, free speach except where it offends our Lord Jesus Christ and christian principles."

... so ... under the tea party and republican ideas ... the wealthy live ... the poor die ... make sure separation of church and state goes away ... and censor free speech ... is that about it?

wow ... and you are calling Obama a socialist, eh?

... let me guess ... you shave your head and sympathize with Timothy McVeigh, right?

Posted by: goCubs | January 5, 2011 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Conservatives always claim bias whenthe facts are presented, because as we all know, reality has a well known liberal bias.

Posted by: John1263 | January 5, 2011 11:44 AM | Report abuse

the only thing that's mindless is the support of Obamacare. Medicare is a failure that is drowning in debt, yet I pay over $5000 annually (premiums, medigap, Part D) and have been paying about $1000 in taxes for it for about a half century. Yet my out of pocket expenses still have approached $15G a year for uncovered expenses (primarily dental). I'm on my third internist (first two left practice because they couldn't take it anymore). Covering tens of millions who choose not to buy insurance is hardly a recipe for success. As for insurance available for seniors-- as an alternative to Medicare-- it once was available. And if you factor in the real cost of Medicare (as a pay-for-itself plan, not gov't subsidized), it probably would cost no more, maybe less. It's certainly worth trying to get the gov't out of health care, because it hasn't worked in a cost-effective way. If Mr. Miller thinks it's cost-effective, he's even more mindless than he indicates.

Posted by: weissler | January 5, 2011 11:47 AM | Report abuse

TO: pvilso24 who wrote:
Mindless opposition ?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Judging by your post, you don’t even have a clue.

Republicans listen to Limbaugh and Beck, 2 one-sided entertainers who make up crap and repeat catch phrases while they get paid a million dollars a day to lie (aka giving their opinion), and Republicans have yet to catch on.

So yes, MINDLESS!


Posted by: lindalovejones | January 5, 2011 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Ever wonder why other industrialized countries can afford universal healthcare but our conservatives say we can't? Is this what they mean by American Exceptionalism?
We are number one on who pays the most for healthcare and number 47 as to quality of healthcare. Why is that?

Posted by: ralph5 | January 5, 2011 12:00 PM | Report abuse

1republican, so you are stating that more than 180 million Americans are against Obamacare? Or is that 60% of the 1000+

Posted by: ListenToOthers | January 5, 2011 12:01 PM | Report abuse

WE CAN"T AFFORD TO PROVIDE FREE HEALTH CARE TO ALL....jeez, we're drowning in debt and ppl want more freebies...is this how liberals run their own households????
Posted by: mjandrews8
**
Why don't you SAVE YOUR ALL CAPS OUTRAGE for the day when Congress passes a bill promising "Free healthcare for all."

And what did Joe Walsh mean by this statement: "The American people are sick and tired of politicians who look and sound different than they do."

Posted by: Rachelva | January 5, 2011 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Since at least the 1920s, when American liberalism began to be identified with the "intellectuals," liberals have found it easy to dismiss their critics as "mindless."

May one suggest that the tactic is, well, mindless?

Posted by: hambya

Might I suggest that some of their critics stop making it so darn easy?

Posted by: Rachelva | January 5, 2011 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Without Medicare, lots of older people would simply die. Or they would go without the preventative care they need and wind up spending major amounts of money in hospital stays.

That's why other countries can cover everybody - prevention works.

Hands Off My Obamacare!

Posted by: Rozinante2 | January 5, 2011 12:49 PM | Report abuse

All of you advocating for repeal of the new health care law, please post your name and notify Medicare that you do not want yourself or any member of your family covered - EVER! Then maybe I'll buy into your hypocritical bull!!!

Posted by: Misty630 | January 5, 2011 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Under the tea party and republican ideas: death pannels don't exist because you allow the free market decide who lives and who dies. Those who can't afford insurance: die. Those who can: live. Isn't that so much more simpler to understand and deal with than having a "panel of experts" balance costs with expectations of survival for each and every case of illness or injury.

Posted by: vidusa | January 5, 2011 11:30 AM | Report abuse

========================================

I would call you mindless but that is obvious, so I'll just call you a horse's a$$.

How is this. Why don't we get rid of the big corporate groups and big government groups that have subscribers paying next to nothing every month for insurance and replace it with a system where everybody gets screwed like those employed in small businesses or the self-employed. Why should we help cover the insurance costs for those in big groups. Let the free market work for EVERYONE!

Posted by: hateisnotafamilyvalue | January 5, 2011 2:09 PM | Report abuse

This particular opposition may be mindless but the Republicans' opposition is not without basis. While it is true that the health care reform promises a lot of good benefits to Americans, the problem is that there is no credible financial planning to support the costs that it will bring.

Anne C
NY Health Insurer

Posted by: Anne_NYHI | January 5, 2011 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Anne NYHI,

I do not have a problem with re-working the health care reform law. My trepidation is that the Republicans really don't have any genuine interest in health care reform of any kind which is based on their past history. If I felt confident that the Republicans would draw up a legitimate health care reform law (elimination of pre-existing conditions, extension of dependents to 26, no caps on the seriously ill etc) then I would not be opposed at all. However, my instincts tell me that this is not the case.

Posted by: hateisnotafamilyvalue | January 5, 2011 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Yeah! how dare we try to help ou the less fortunate members of society by paying a bit more in taxes and make sure that those who dont make huge profits for corrupt insurance companies can afford to get sick. I'd rather have a bureaucrat in washington decide on my coverage than an insurance company CEO who just looks at his bottom line.

Posted by: Sleepseazy | January 5, 2011 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Most remarkable, this conversation, considering that the column is titled "PostPartisan." We have allowed, with no accountability, insurance companies offering health policies to regulate and manage delivery of health services and medication. Yet here we are, a nation of sheep, listening to idiots blather on about whether the limited national approach to getting health care for all citizens was "too much." Which of you has such good care it could use no improvement?

This is an argument for fools. Health care is a fundamental good for any civilized society. A neighbor's family's health is the concern of the community, not of that family alone. But argue on. It provides jaw exercise if nothing else.

Posted by: Jazzman7 | January 5, 2011 4:58 PM | Report abuse

We haven't really started Obamacare and already there is a heavy new tax on people earning over $200,000 being deducted from their social security checks to subsidize Medicare Obamacare style. SS calls it an 'adjustment' whatever an 'adjustment' is!!!! Save and invest and the needy will take your savings to pay their bills. No wonder my neighbor a big 'spender' said when I cautioned her that she should start saving for retirement "The government will take care of me so why should I worry". The sad part is they did, with SSI and subsidized housing when she fell ill. There is a fine line between the responsibility of individuals to prop up others who fail, some through no fault of their own but others who act completely irresponsibly knowing others will be taxed to support them.

Posted by: dbothroydearthlinknet | January 5, 2011 6:01 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone noticed that since Medicare was enacted few if any of the health insurance companies are offering affordable insurance plans to people over 65 with deductibles. Medicare must be lucrative for its providers!
If true competition existed healthy non-smoking individuals over 65 would find affordable health care plans offered to them.
Wonder how many expensive drugs taxpayers are taxed to pay for will end up in the toilet. My doctor was miffed when I rejected his statement that I should take estrogren. I'm glad I said no thank you.

Posted by: dbothroydearthlinknet | January 5, 2011 6:13 PM | Report abuse

"Obamacare" is a fiscal disaster and a threat to our freedoms and liberties. It's a cancer in the heart of the Republic and must be beaten down and destroyed.

==

yeah here come the black helicopters

you're a drool case

Posted by: caothien9 | January 5, 2011 10:48 PM | Report abuse

Have you ever heard of a place called "123 Get Samples" on the web, they give out a free samples of major brands to promote their products. I just got mine.


Posted by: dawnhansen06 | January 6, 2011 5:18 AM | Report abuse

1republican , you have your stats backwards , no surprise there , must have got them from one of the propagandists on Fox , from Limbaugh or one of the Republicans who when they don't like the actual and true numbers just make up their own ( after all the sheep automatically take their word for it ) . CNN just conducted a large national poll this week or the last ( you can easily check it out for yourself ) , 60 % of Americans are in favor of the health care bill ( imperfect as it is ) , a surprising percentage said it didn't go far enough . Have you seen the news about the health Insurance companies rate hikes of late ? It's madness ! Assuming that you right wing / Republican posters here are not millionaires or billionaires , corporate CEO's and the like who are making out like bandits , I would ask you for a straight answer : What the hell is wrong with you people ? Why are you against your fellow Americans ? Why are you continually supporting those sewer rats who are against you and vote against your own best interests and the best interests of your family and loved ones ? Are you sadists ? Cult members unable to think ? Incapable of logic and reason ? Are you totally blinded by the right wing propaganda , by the hate and fear ? What is it ? Do you even know why ? What needs to happen ( but never will ) is the elimination of the blood suckers and leeches which are the health insurance companies and their investors on Wall Street , they do absolutely nothing , are absolutely unnecessary , yet somehow have a lock on health care , have the power to say who can and who cannot receive health care , how much it will cost and decide who lives and who dies ... and profit big time . They are not legitimate and they are 100 % unnecessary , if you actually stop to think about it it's legalized racketeering , for all practical purposes they are mobsters . Health care for human beings should be non profit , middle men and investors should not be profiting off of another human being's sickness , disease or misfortune . In America the beautiful greed and profit overrides all , even the life of a fellow human being , a fellow American , man , woman , child , infant ... no matter , greed and money overrides all . It's sick and it is shameful .

Posted by: Koom | January 7, 2011 9:44 PM | Report abuse

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