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Live from the Mall: Dueling Demos

Good morning, all--the weather is supposed to become lovely as the day progresses, so both sides in today's dueling demonstrations for and against the U.S. presence in Iraq have only their organizational skills and the appeal of their messages to blame for whatever size crowd they may draw as the day unfolds.

Supported by a crack team of reporters stationed all along the rally and march routes, I'll be updating the scene and the speeches, the confrontations and the passions, throughout the day.

Today's anti-war rally and march is, like several staged since before the Bush administration decided to take down Saddam Hussein's government, organized primarily by a group called the ANSWER Coalition. The pro-war rally, which was organized in response to the anti demo, is being put together by a new, ad hoc group called the Gathering of Eagles.

The ANSWER Coalition, whose radical politics skews well left of many participants in the rally, blends its opposition to the Iraq war with a long list of demands such as "U.S. Out of Puerto Rico" and "Support the Palestinian People's Right of Return." The group has built a broader coalition by embracing the anger and frustration of many people who find themselves hungry for a more pointed and aggressive opposition in Congress and for a more politicized and polarized kind of news reporting.

But all's fair in war and anti-war, so the same group that rails on its web site against "the big newspapers which are the corporate propaganda outlets for the war machine" on the very same page touts Washington Post coverage of its doings as evidence of the credibility of the group and its efforts.

The organizers of the march have been involved in a legal battle with federal authorities over ANSWER and its allies' insistence on posting signs advertising this march without getting the permits that the government says they need to put up the posters. (Oddly, ANSWER does comply with the requirements for a permit to stage a demonstration on the Mall and does not protest that regulation as anti-free speech.)

The coalition behind the demo includes a long list of 60s lefties such as former Attorney General Ramsey Clark, socialist historian Howard Zinn, and Leonard Weinglass, the lawyer who represented the Chicago Seven, Angela Davis, Jane Fonda and the kidnappers of Patty Heart, among others. But the list also includes a number of Iraq war veterans, the inevitable Cindy Sheehan, the tiresome defenders of the murderer Mumia Abu-Jamal, the George Washington University College Democrats and the Green Party.

In addition to the legally permitted demo, there is to be a die-in in which organizers hope 4,000 people will risk arrest by symbolically dying at the foot of the Capitol. (As of yesterday, about 1,000 people had signed up to join the die-in.)

On the other side of the issue, a group called the Gathering of Eagles is planning a morning rally, followed by a counter-demonstration along the march route of the anti-war demo. The planning for the pro-victory rally started later and is on a much smaller scale than the ANSWER operation; even this week, the Eagles were still pleading with supporters of sticking with the surge to cough up the $30,000 that organizers need for basics such as stages, sound, security and portapotties.

The ANSWER Coalition is also using today's rally to fight other longstanding battles. Although many of the marchers joining the anti-war rally today may not know it, ANSWER considers this a demonstration against the war in Iraq and against what it calls "Israel's brutal repression of the Palestinian people." Today's event, organizers say, is meant to show solidarity with Palestinians and to oppose "the Israeli state's profoundly racist character." How that position will play with the bulk of the crowd remains to be seen.

Also worth checking: Which draws the larger crowd, the demonstration or the annual Arts on Foot festival in Penn Quarter, this year featuring an open house at the spanking new Harman Center--the new home of the Shakespeare Theatre?

By Marc Fisher |  September 15, 2007; 8:45 AM ET
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Please email us to report offensive comments.

I'm a Democrat and very much want this war to end, but I won't be in a rally under the auspices of ANSWER. The American people, if they are serious about ending the war, need to get together with this one goal in mind. Otherwise, it's war and death till at least January 2009.

Posted by: Robert | September 15, 2007 9:08 AM

unfortunately, it's war and death until we make peace profitable.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 15, 2007 9:19 AM

I thought the movie in question was Woody's "Love and Death". So what's the over/under on how many show up?

Posted by: Bill Harrison | September 15, 2007 9:29 AM

Your bias is showing.

You're obviously trying to fool the goobers into believing there are two similarly sized groups protest both against and for the war.

But --- as you know --- this isn't the case.

There is one huge anti-war group numbering in the thousands. On the other side there are the usual 16 freepers smoking their cigarettes and giving the other protest dirty looks. Usually the freepers have the4 larger banner howver. Maybe you could try milking that.

Posted by: Morgana Le Fay | September 15, 2007 9:29 AM

I've been to an ANSWER march. It was a few years ago. I t was focused on the war alone BUT it was clear that they had an alternative agenda. They were using an emotional people's desire for an organized anti-war movement to make it look as though their real, more radical concerns were gathering adherents.
In the end I believe that those who wish to end the war will be in the greater numbers

Posted by: Kwilson | September 15, 2007 9:30 AM

It is only through the jingoistic flag waving of the corporate controlled media (of which the WaPo is a part of), that this illegal war for oil continues.

That is why us really cool progressives hope for failure in Iraq -- because failure in Iraq will bring more people into the fold of the socialist/communist agenda promoted by A.N.S.W.E.R. and

It isn't an antiwar movement that we really cool progressives and members of the angry, bitter left are promoting, it is an anti-Amerika agenda.

Bush Lies and People Dies. Peace. - Scott Laughrey

Posted by: Scott Laughrey | September 15, 2007 9:33 AM

You didn't mention impeachment. A 9/11 Truth Out Zogby poll shows the 30% of the population already feel there is enough evidence for Impeachment, indictment and inprisionment of the Bush regime, particularly, Bush and Cheney. A House resolution exists, House Res. 333 to impeach Dick Cheney for lying us into the Iraq War.

51% of the people feel that 9/11 should be more throughly investigated to see if the Bush administration played some part in the tragegy. This movement includes Strucutral engineers who question why WTC 7 fell down.

I will be on the Mall calling for the impeachment of Cheney first, then Bush.

Posted by: Nancy Maynard | September 15, 2007 9:34 AM

This election will be determined by the overwhelm to get a Republican president out of office. And not get another one who wants to keep this war on going like Fred and Rudy.

HIllary has changed her mind about supporting the war - SO FREAKIN WHAT!



Posted by: darson1 | September 15, 2007 9:37 AM

Nancy -- I am really stoked to see other really cool progressives post here and question authority and let people know that Bush Lies and People Dies.

The Iraq war is illegal -- all of us really cool progressives know this. But what the corporate controlled media refuses to talk about is how the Bush war for OIL is illegal and the Downing Street Memos and other stuff should allow us to impeach Bush and Cheney as war criminals.

The corporate controlled media and its propaganda do not bind us. The corporate controlled media, after all, are the ones who gave us the propaganda on 9/11 that it was 19 hijackers and jet airplanes. The really cool progressives question authority and have intellectual discussion on the fact that it was squib charges and holograms used on 9/11.

There's a lot more going on in the 9/11 cover-up than meets the eye. People who buy every word that the corporate-controlled media says should go buy George Orwell's 1984 and practice up; it won't be long before the hopelessly indoctrinated manage to get the clocks to thirteen here. Peace. - Scott Laughrey

Posted by: Scott Laughrey | September 15, 2007 9:42 AM

Does anyone know how many hot babes plan on showing up?

Posted by: Bill Harrison | September 15, 2007 9:45 AM

These leftists are not patriotic. They should be covered extensively by the media. They HATE America.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 15, 2007 9:54 AM

Iraq shouldn't be bundled with other issues.

As for the "Gathering of Eagles", it sounds like the sort of name Mussolini might have come up with.

I'm guessing they're bitter, middle-aged, overweight bald eagles.

Posted by: OD | September 15, 2007 9:55 AM

I can not begin to tell you how much I disagree with the anti-war crowd. They are children who swallow lies and regurgitate filth against our troops and country. They are the worst.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 15, 2007 9:56 AM

What's the consensus on what time Ma Sheehan will be arrested? And "Rev." Yearwood?

Posted by: Bill Harrison | September 15, 2007 9:58 AM

I think poster Bill Harrison hits just the right tone on this fair and balenced blogging on the demonstrations.

Posted by: JerseyMissouri | September 15, 2007 9:59 AM

What a snarky, snarky little piece of commentary you've written, Fisher. Yeah, YOU'RE the person to be covering this. The "inevitable Cindy Sheehan?" The "socialist Howard Zinn?" A thousand people are willing to be arrested in protest of this Occupation. Now that's worth reporting. You, however, sound like a smug college freshman who watches with a smirk while people who care about this bloody, brutal Occupation get out on their day off and demonstrate for peace. A**hat.

Posted by: iacitizen | September 15, 2007 9:59 AM

Free Mumia!!

Posted by: Bill Harrison | September 15, 2007 10:01 AM

The anti war crowd are spoiled little children. They will not engage in discussing what is best for America.

Posted by: DaveSm | September 15, 2007 10:07 AM

Your red underoos are showing again! Such incredible bias against anti-war protesters! Sadly this bias is what keeps Bush in power.

Posted by: Oh Brother | September 15, 2007 10:15 AM

The reason I'm going is simply to oppose this war. As for the Israel stuff, as a Jew I can't support the demo's attacks on Israel per se but I do oppose the occupation, Aipac, and the crazed hold pro-occupation types have on our politics.

Posted by: Marco Ross | September 15, 2007 10:27 AM

Morgana, thank you for exposing Washington Post's jingoistic bias once and for all. Your insight will serve you well your gender studies classes.

US Out Puerto Rico Now!!!

Posted by: Tom | September 15, 2007 10:30 AM

So what's the over/under on when Ramsey Clark starts saying Saddam Hussein was framed?

Posted by: Bill Harrison | September 15, 2007 10:32 AM

Were the US to get out of Puerto Rico, NYC would collapse ;>)

Posted by: Bill Harrison | September 15, 2007 10:33 AM

I find it interesting, citizens of the United States can come out to protest against the War, but they won't take to the streets and protest against illegal aliens and illegal immigration. Illegal immigration is the most serious domestic issue facing the United States of America.

Posted by: Democrat | September 15, 2007 10:40 AM

Why are they not protesting against illegal immigration or illegal aliens?

Posted by: Democrat | September 15, 2007 10:42 AM

You can't resist mocking people who are exercising their freedom of assembly and freedom of speech rights. The Founding Fathers would find the peaceful protest much more familiar than the modern corporate press which acts more like a suckerfish living off of the wealthy and powerful than a check on that power.

It's not just ANSWER that thinks the Washington Post is in the tank for the war. MSNBC's Chris Matthews, employee of noted leftist group General Electric, said the WaPo is a "neocon" paper. You have many fine reporters at the Washington Post but don't pretend the management is objective when it comes to the Iraq War. Your best reporting is usually hidden on the airplane pages for a reason.

Posted by: joejoejoe | September 15, 2007 10:45 AM

If you look at various Internet chat boards and see the number of really cool leftists promoting their hate and intolerance of Amerika and the Bush regime, one would assume that we are the majority. Either that or many of us don't have jobs.

Whatever the reason, as long as we keep up with our really cool postings to let the world know the truth, I would have to assume that we will, in fact, stop the illegal war in Iraq, have Rummy and Bush and Cheney arrested as war criminals, force Halliburton to give all of their illegal war profits to the Free Mumia Abu-Jamal fund, and overturn the marijuana laws in the U.S.

These are the things that the angry, bitter leftists are fighting for. And it is through our use of Internet chat boards and the constant posting of Bush Lies and People Dies that we can make this all happen. Peace. - Scott Laughrey

Posted by: Scott Laughrey | September 15, 2007 10:45 AM

GoE will be represented by 45+ year old balding men who are safe in the knowledge that their eligible-for-duty children are safely hiding at The Point, too cowardly to even attend a pro-war rally let alone going to war themselves.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 15, 2007 10:46 AM

If MSNBC is labeling the WaPo a "neocon" paper at the same time the Con news outfits are lumping it in with the rest of the vast left-wing media conspiracy it sounds like WaPo is overall balanced since nobody likes them.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 15, 2007 10:49 AM

Does anyone know if Mr. Barbra Streisand is scheduled for an appearance?

Posted by: Bill Harrison | September 15, 2007 10:49 AM

Don't know, but Mr. Andy Coulter should be down on the mall with the rest of the 45+ year old men right now.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 15, 2007 10:52 AM

Hilarious first comment, Robert. In the face of ardent protest, you're the first in line Dem to fidget. Congratulations. ANSWER is "too radical" for the squeemish set like you. Name a matter of conscience movement and the Dems are at best observers from the sidelines till it's "safe" --This was true of the early Labor, Civil and Womens right movement. Just like MLK and the anti War movement was for the "mainstream" DEMS fearful of losing the South which --and this is rich --THEY DID ANYWAYS! Stand for something, dammit! Larry Craig may be in some sordid stall, but, hell, he's no CLOSET Republican.

I wonder if the Democrats will be missing my 30 years of of giving time money and GOTV efforts? Or my very large Catholic family up and down the generations who they've driven away, firmly entrenched now as jaded Independents. Oh we'll vote all right, but never for liars. And you can forget about contributions, volunteering or Aunt Edna's deli platters come election day. We'll have another funeral to attend..

But now that it's clear, you won't have US to blame as the Donklephant Incumbancy (maybe with Hill having a seatwarming turn at the wheel this time??)leads the country blindly down the same destructive path since the Reagan era. Buck up, Matey, maybe they'll be waving at YOU, as you're watching it all go by.....

Posted by: BHHM | September 15, 2007 10:56 AM

Is Dick Gregory slated for an appearance?

Posted by: Bill Harrison | September 15, 2007 10:57 AM

I think I saw Danny Glover at The Mayflower bar last night.

Posted by: Bill Harrison | September 15, 2007 10:58 AM

Dunno, but Ted Haggard is supposed to be working the porta-potties for the GoE.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 15, 2007 11:00 AM

Marc, my money's on the Arts On Foot.

Posted by: Bill Harrison | September 15, 2007 11:01 AM

It only waters down the protest when too many issues are drawn in. We should be protesting the Iraq war. PERIOD! Save the other issues for another time. This is the most important one for now.

Posted by: Marine wife | September 15, 2007 11:04 AM

EXACTLY why I made the country's first and only CONSERVATIVE MUSIC CD. Someone had to do it! ('Blaming America First!')

Posted by: Anonymous | September 15, 2007 11:04 AM

"The group has built a broader coalition by embracing the anger and frustration of many people who find themselves hungry for a more pointed and aggressive opposition in Congress and for a more politicized and polarized kind of news reporting."

Marc, that's pretty dishonest. I'm no supporter of "Answer" but I'm certainly "hungry" for opposition in Congress and for more -- and here's the point -- more aggressive and honest reporting
from such national newspapers as the Post and the Times. Both papers shrugged off questions about the war from the beginning and finally have had to admit that those of us who from the start were saying, "This president is lying to get us into war and keep us there," have truth on our side.

So please,if you haven't yet learned skepticism about the "radicals on the left" meme yet, try and acquire some at this late date. Start with "Fiasco."

Posted by: PW | September 15, 2007 11:08 AM

Anyone know if Cyndi McKinney is slated for an appearance? She's hot.

Posted by: Bill Harrison | September 15, 2007 11:23 AM

The war in Iraq will be over when the enemy surrenders. President Bush said the war will continue past his presidency. How about joining the American side for once you commies. In the hearing with General Petraeus, NOT ONE democrat Senator ever asked the question "What can we do to help win the war?". That is why the democrats are wrong from America.

Posted by: Kevin | September 15, 2007 11:24 AM

Marc with a c Fisher, did you really not hit delete when "the pro-victory rally" came out of your fingers? Wow. I hope you feel shame in your dark heart.

Posted by: 5th generation washingtonian | September 15, 2007 11:31 AM

Kevin, I like your thinking but Iraq is not now, nor was it ever, ours to win. That said we need to stand with brave Iraqis like the martyred Sheik Risha against the head-loppers, head-drillers and murderous clerical thugs in Tehran and their running dogs like Sadr.

Posted by: Bill Harrison | September 15, 2007 11:31 AM

Marc, I think it's more foolish to wait around for the Democratic Party to end the war than it is to participate in a demonstration against the war. At least the latter approach provides some hope for ending the war, the former we know is a dead end, just look at the last 9 months of inaction by the Democratic Party politicians.

And can't you get beyond the smears of people who organize an antiwar protest? Must antiwar protests be organized by God's Perfect Angels before you can take the protests seriously?

Posted by: Steve | September 15, 2007 11:33 AM

The ANSWER crowd does a fine job of smearing itself like smearing some kind of substance on the Vietnam War Memorial. Despicable.

Posted by: Bill Harrison | September 15, 2007 11:42 AM

I see that the Kool-Aid drinkers of the reich wing have not completely disappeared, based on some of the comments here. How's the occupation of the Babylon Oil Colony working out for you Freepers? Still talking about democracy? Still holding out for "victory"? What's victory supposed to look like, anyway?

I'm not keen on ANSWER, but I went to their marches when I lived in San Francisco, and my last political action before emigrating from the United States was when my wife and I flew across the country to march in the September 25, 2005 anti-war protest in D.C. It sure was nice to walk past the White House yelling "Get OUT! Get OUT!" That was about 2,000 dead U.S. troops and 200,000 dead Iraqis ago.

Now 1,500 more U.S. soldiers will die, 15,000 will be maimed for life, and 150,000 Iraqis will suffer bloody, screaming deaths before the WORST! PRESIDENT! EVER! leaves office. Then someone else will close the curtain on the colossal failure. And you know what, smirky Marc Fischer and sneering pro-war chickenhawks -- all those people will have been killed for nothing.

Unfortunately, all the marching has been for nothing too. The wishes of the American people don't matter any more. That's why I moved out of the country where I was born. You people are not going to realise how wrong you've gone until the U.S. military has to retreat in defeat from the mess President Cheney has made in Iraq, and until the American economy collapses. Won't be long now.

So keep laughing like a pack of two-legged hyenas when people try to change the course toward disaster. Some bad stuff is coming down the pike toward you. I gave up hope for the United States. When what's going to happen, happens, my arse will be in Australia and my money will be in Switzerland (and not denominated in U.S. dollars, let me tell you.) And I'll be having the last laugh.

Apologies to the sensible left-wingers who have to stay in the (other) States.

Posted by: Bukko in Australia | September 15, 2007 11:42 AM

America's loss is Oz's?

Posted by: Bill Harrison | September 15, 2007 11:47 AM

I always love the antiwar people - those who want to save our troops, save our country, we're the ones who "hate" America? Check the mirror no name. And then tell us ... why aren't you in Iraq fighting if that's what needs to be done and you support it so strongly?

Posted by: Annie | September 15, 2007 11:53 AM

So where's everyone going to get high after the demonstration?

Posted by: Bill Harrison | September 15, 2007 12:00 PM

I have to laugh at your tag line Marc (Fisher)

"The Cold Splash of Reality,
With A Side of Sizzle"

What copywriter fretted over that one?

And just what about the GOI (Government of Israel) makes it anymore immune to criticism than our own?? Playing the anti- Semiticism card is typical, but it won't serve Israeli long term security any more than it will address issues with the PA or the Palestinians. And its a matter of time before that truth erodes your rhetorical free pass. But here we are -- and that is the purpose of your piece, no?? : "Israel first and foremost" derails any discussion and trumps alternatives that might result in the removal of Oil and carte blanche Zionism as dual lynchpins in our Foreign Policy. End of Discussion? NO.

Instead of liquidating al Qaeda in barren Afghanistan, We have embarked on a cold and quiet Third World War, unjust and undeclared, all in a fruitless quest for declining oil reserves. Quite simply we are using oppressive theocratic states to prop up our own.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. We need to move with all urgency towards sustainable energy and leave our stake in ancient tribal hostilities on the table. But it is not the erstwhile rocket scientists you fear launching their garage built misguided missiles into Israel. No, It is your fellow US citizens excercising their right to protest, to dissent, to influence public discourse... you will hear none of it. Who here is the enemy of Democracy???

Posted by: BHHM | September 15, 2007 12:10 PM

I think I just saw a VC flag at the "event". Too funny.

Posted by: Bill Harrison | September 15, 2007 12:16 PM

Is Bill Harrison an ass or just inquisitive??

Posted by: BHHM | September 15, 2007 12:19 PM

I think Ma Sheehan has already been arrested and Ramsey bin al-Tikriti Clark has bailed her out.

Posted by: Bill Harrison | September 15, 2007 12:21 PM

Oh you ARE a hoot, Bill. The Nofriendo's not workin and the ball games aren't on till later, so blablablogging on WaPo hmmm, Bill? Re getting "high" as you put it -- such late boomer/gen X missed the draft hiposity, no? Bill, do you mean like Dub doin lines off of strippers "gazoombas" or was that Cheney bein' in the bag and shooting a guy in the face?

Posted by: BHHM | September 15, 2007 12:33 PM

Does anyone know if Armani makes tie-dyes? I just got a call from Mizz Pelosi's staff.

Posted by: Bill Harrison | September 15, 2007 12:38 PM

I thought impeachment was a big part or main part of this rally.

Posted by: Steve | September 15, 2007 1:08 PM

Well, the keyboard commandos seem to be out in force here. Counting about 20 pro-war haters at the "counter-demonstration", Bill Harrison and some anonymous cowards posting here, I guess that there are maybe 30-40 stalwart defenders of the global war for US supremacy left. Plus Fisher, of course. Pathetic.

Posted by: christian h. | September 15, 2007 1:10 PM

BHHM, I'm not figeting, I refuse to lend my voice to the non-Iraq war issues ANSWER is advocating. Plain and simple. ANSWER's "parting on the left" reminds me too much of the parting on the right that's been sending this country downhill. Republicans don't have a monopoly on overblown, fact-challenged hateful divisive rhetoric. Why should I jump on a bandwagon merely because it's in opposition to the Right?

Posted by: Robert | September 15, 2007 1:13 PM


Posted by: DANNY | September 15, 2007 3:13 PM


Posted by: DANNY | September 15, 2007 3:14 PM

Robert, I am well aware of the limits with which arbitrary and binary language can describe what is "Left" or what is "Right". Or the artifice of boundaries on a map seperating one State from another. But the parting on the left you refer to is a matter of equity, a matter of which side of "the line" and which coalition you choose to stand with. I have come to the conclusion (begrudgingly believe me ) that centrism & moderation -- especially in THIS time and place -- only emboldens a RUTHLESS anti democratic Right.

Do you think this present state of affairs has just evolved during BushCo? That a RW judiciary that threw an election just materialized in 2000? Make no mistake: decision trees are made up of a series of discreet binary choices.

The centrist voices of "moderation" :

*to go just a bit further down the path
*the appeal to tolerate a mythically bipartisan Right Wing GOP and thus appeal to their mythically open minded supporters,
*to not be so "unhinged" or - alternatively- to not be so "rigid" on the "Left"....

... these criticisms are often heard from critics seemingly unaware how MANY wrong forks they've taken in the road, and precisely whose roadmap they're working with. Precisely what Bridge to the Twenty First Century(c) did Clinton build for "us"? And if it was as carefully constructed as in Clinton's rhetoric, why did that bridge collapse?? Not so bad if you cashed out before the dotcom bust I suppose or what your definition of which bridge that bridge is and what your definition of that word "is" is.

Speaking of "is" - Is it me or has anyone else noted that after so many years of being stampeded on judicial nominations that Democratic chicks had come home to roost in Bush v. Gore?? Neither Nader or Bush beat Gore, a long cadre of Democratic Senators did years before with their failure to turn back the GOP assault on the Courts. They should STILL BE filibustering Scalia and Thomas if need be.

This is where the harumph is usually heard.
I was a staunch Democrat and voted straight ticket including 2006. I have personally given Democratic candidates the equivalent in money and time that I've calculated could purchase a nice lake house. I would have said it was inconceivable that the Democrats were in fact complicit in this misdirection, that the Leadership and rank and file could not simply be going along. Well, THEY WERE THEN AS THEY ARE NOW. The only difference is in seeing it clearly for what it is. Their motivations matter little in the end.

In all intellectual honesty , I've seen 30 years of cave ins and watched not only the traction gained in the sixties swept away, but the legacy of FDR along with it.(itself a multi generational fruition of progressive action) It's not enough to agree that we're worse off for it...

"Moderates" may comfort themselves on their liberal sympathies or on their steady bearings. This is astonishing to me along so many lines , not the least of which is along the perfect storm arising on the economic fronts:

* Unrealized, and unpaid War debt
* A speculative housing market collapse,that was itself sold on the securities markets. Not worried about the fools who can't pay their mortgages? Have a 401k or retirement fund? Or do you think your disposable income can weather you through given the "new concensus" on an era of low taxation?
* Inflationary pressures as yet unrealized in the Oil markets...

I ask my questions not with the purpose of pissing you off but I question your assessment and your bearings WRT the political landscape. I shouldn't lecture anyone n navigation since as a country we can't seem to find New Orleans.

Its been said the rabid left is shrill calling the conservative onslaught facist. Review the economic points above and you might agree that Bushco is mere proto-fascist overture, a warmongering little kaiser for the shape of things to come...

While the "center" at this time and always may be a comforting notion ultimately we are faced with political choices that divide: an agenda from those in power from those without, those have from those who have not. The assemblage of so many choices has added up.

There IS a line that divides and I'd suggest my friend that you obtain a new map or navigate in the traditional manner : by ascertaining known objects, assessing their relationship to others and then determining your direction. I would put it to you that despite the prospects of Democratic incumbancy in 08, the most reactionary forces on Earth have aligned ironically in the US, Europe, and Israel. The Democrats may appease RW criticisms while, hideously, slave wage labor camps are called "inevitable short term adjustments in a global economy".

Many in the private sector thought "Well I'll just get a good job with so and so and I'll be okay. Now the thinking is to get in with the government as an employee or better yet as a "contractor". Just who are the proponents of a dominant, pat on the head nanny state? Not the coalition on the Left.

Of course the ardent Dems will ask the big question of what one gets by leaving The Big Tent...Quite the long way you've fallen from JFK's immortal inaugural words, no?

What am I going to get? The same as always. Just now, I see it coming. Et tu?

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