I think you need to get your facts straight. He did not have pot at the school. That would involve the "zero-tolerance" policy. A student caught with pot at home would not be expelled either.

The school system can't just fire him, even though he was arrested. As a public school employee he has a due process right to his job that can't be taken away without a hearing. It strikes me that the school system is doing the right thing by removing him from interaction with the kids immediately, getting all of the facts straight, and then, hopefully, acting appropriately. Otherwise, the system would be setting itself up for a lawsuit.

You hit the hypocrisy that is FCPS square on the head and nothing makes me happier than to realize that my last child will be out of the system in a little over a year. I understand the need for due process, but the argument that this happened at home and not on school property is weak.

Zero tolerance is a joke and FCPS principals waste no time in taking action against trivial offenses, unless of course you happen to be a star athlete or other high profile student. Students eagerly post incriminating photos of keg stands, beer pong and bong hits on Facebook knowing that they will get a free pass.

I agree with the comments of "Due Process" above, but to bring back the other part of Mark's argument, it's clear that when the school system does not have to worry about lawsuits - like when they're dealing with the kids in their charge - they are more than happy to proclaim "zero tolerance" and ruin kids' lives rather than thinking about what an appropriate and effective punishment for those kids might be. (As if a zero-tolerance policy is going to stop adolescents from making stupid decisions, and as if treating every offense as stunningly grave is going to help kids learn how to make decisions.) The school's prudence in acting against the assistant principal should be a model for them as they pursue disciplinary action against the children in their charge.

Marsh is no longer an employee of Fairfax County Public Schools. So those looking for a harsher punishment can quiet down.
Additionally, SoMD is right--the "zero tolerance" policy applies to actions taken on school grounds and during school hours. Students who are expelled for a prank are given such punishment because the prank took place *at* school. There have been many cases of Fairfax County High School students being arrested for drug possession, distribution, or other crimes, and not being punished by the school because their crimes had nothing to do with their school activities.

The comment from DueProcess is correct. I can't speak for Virginia schools, but in Maryland a tenured teacher or administrator would first be placed on leave, an investigation would ensue, and if the facts supported action, the teacher or administrator would be recommended for dismissal. By state statute, they would still have a right to request a hearing before the local Board of Education? Is this the best process? Some might say yes, some might say no, but it is the process required by law.

I agree with LawMan and DueProcess that you are innocent until proven guilty. But your missing Mark's point. Why don't they give students due process as well instead of Zero Tolerance? Is it because teachers are in a Union and can sue for any little thing (even standing up for a principle growing drugs) where students don't have any representation?

The important lesson is that the man is innocent until proven guilty. You want to convict him publicly before he has a trial. Further, no one has said alleged that the man sold pot to kids or got them high in his office. The example he sets for kids is what he does on the job, not what he does in his closet. As for the kids expelled for putting baby oil on a floor, that is a preposterous and cruel reaction to a harmless prank. Rather than hold this principal up as a possible example of poor behavior, the public ought to shine a light on the lack of thought on the part of whatever public servants thought up that expulsion.

Weed should be legal, man.

Natl Survey of Drug Use and Health estimates 97.5 Million Americas have used marijuana in their lifetime. This is slightly over 40% of the US Population (at the time of the 2005 survey).

Why do we criminalize activities condoned by 2 out of 5 citizens?

My Lord but Marc Fisher sure is off-base sometimes.

What exactly does he want FCPS to do? Have the PE teachers beat this man up? Form a line of students armed with sticks and ax handles and send this man down it? Maybe a good lynching?

In fact, a good lynching is what Mr. Fisher seems to want. Remember, in a lynching there's no trial, and even often no investigation. Somebody points a finger and makes an accusation, and off we go.

Mr. Marsh has been charged with a crime. Fair enough. But, and apparently to Mr. Fisher's great distress, the government and FCPS are forced to follow the law and standards of due process. FCPS has removed the man from school and is waiting for the police to complete their investigation. How, exactly, is this a horrifying breach of justice and fair play?

And finally, Mr. Fisher is totally off base when it comes to how the school system handles "expulsions." 99% of the time the recommendation for explusion culminates in the child being suspended for a week and a half and transferred to another FCPS school. And it's usually not a behavior center, but a regular old school. Screw up at the second school, and the "expulsion" means the student is off to a behavior center or alternative school, where the child can still earn the regular old diploma. And often the "recommendation for expulsion" culminates in the child being suspended for a couple weeks and going right back to the same school.

I've worked for the county for 13 years and have only once seen a child totally kicked out of FCPS.

Mr. Fisher does a great job of stirring the pot, but really, that's all he does.

Innocent until proven guilty, Marc. "Nabbed" is not equivalent to "convicted."

As a society, we're a little too sensitive over things like this. I'm sure the county will handle this as best as they see fit.

I'm just glad that our children can get to and from school without having to worry that the government or infidels will try to harm them, like the kids in other parts of the world.

Another case of 'Big Brother' invading a home. No indication of selling/distributing the weed..a victimless 'crime.' Legalize the stuff (as other localities have) and collect the taxes from the sales. It's tough enough for educators to avoid all the pitfalls that can surface during a 10-12 hour day. What they do in the presumed privacy of their home should be no one's business. Government needs to back off from trying to save us from ourselves.

Yet another victim in the senseless (and unconstitutional) so called "War on Drugs." Mr. Fisher and his prohibitionist cronies at the Washington Post never miss an opportunity to miss the larger story. The "real" story here is the sorry state of our nation and the failure of our news media to address the simple fact that our government's approximately 74 year-old campaign against marijuana is a complete failure and a disgrace. What kind of message are we sending our children by teaching them that it is acceptable for the government to destroy a fellow citizen's life for possessing (and enjoying) a plant that is indigenous to Virginia? The narrow-minded (and contradictory) puritanical message of prohibition teaches our children that it is OK to be intolerant, cruel, and heavy-handed with otherwise law abiding citizens in the name of the so called "War on Drugs."

I predict in response to my posting there will be countless messages from "concerned parents" and other lemmings about the horrors and dangers the "evil marijuana" poses to our children and how my posting is from just another "druggie" looking to push an agenda. However, the fact of the matter is that with every passing day countless other citizens are being persecuted, jailed and silenced in the name of insane drug laws that run contrary to everyting America is supposed to stand for.

It simply amazes me that so many of us have been either lulled to sleep or hypnotized by the anti-drug nuts in this county to allow this injustice to continue. Mr. Marsh is just the latest victim in our nation's long-standing (and pointless) effort to convince ourselves that marijuana is immoral and evil. As long as he is not selling to kids, not driving while impaired, and minding his own business in his home, who the hell cares?

Thomas Jefferson and George Washington grew and used marijuana in the privacy of their Virginia homes, why should Mr. Marsh not be able to do the same?

Marc is just using any example he can to whack zero-tolerance; whether it fits or not. he has his pet topics and/or positions and uses this forum to push his view of the world.

Zero tolerance has been extended to off-campus activities too. I know a boy in the Alexandria schools who was suspended after being arrested for DUI. The DUI happened on the weekend, away from school grounds, etc., etc. And this was shortly before the whole Rebecca Perry thing, which made me even more disgusted with how they handled it (the Perry situation).

What part of "powerful teachers union" don't you get Fisher? Until the students band together form a union and collectively bargain they'll have nothing.

Love,
Jimmy Hoffa

Marsh was suspended without pay. I'd say that's pretty harsh. He won't be tried until January. That's a long time for an asst. Principal to go without pay...by the way - the effect on the kids was devastating. Remember, these are kids who are 5 to 12 years old and have heard "don't do drugs" their whole young lives - whether he should or should not smoke in his home or anywhere else - he should have taken more seriously his responsibility to the students.

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN, Marc-good job!!

Folks, it is time for a little education on FCPS's Stalinist ZT policies.

From page 14 of the 44 page Student Rights and Responsibilities Handbook (I really don't know why the word "rights" is in there):

"Students may also be disciplined for acts committed away from school property and outside school hours if the conduct is detrimental to the interest of the school, adversely affects school discipline and/or results in a criminal charge or conviction"

If a student had been growing pot in their house they would surely be expelled from FCPS school. This educator and assistant principal BETTER be fired. How can we possibly teach values to our kids when the AP is smoking pot at home?

As far as due process in FCPS- rest assure the teachers have it but the kids don't!!

1. Parents are prohibited from recording the hearing- ie. you have no record of what was said.

2. The hearing officer upholds every recommendation from the principals for expulsion-there were over 1000 last year. They use abeyance. Think about it. 1000 cases and not one was deemed excessive or inappropriate.

3. If a parent appeals the hearing officer decision, the kid will miss about 6-8 weeks of school because they cannot attend school if you appeal.

FCPS is a JOKE!! Ask any education attorney in NOVA.

Bravo to Marc Fisher, and, in fact to "takebackourschools" for his/her keen and insightful observations. FCPS systems has an egregiously hypocritical approach to discpline. The FCPS administrators are wild unrestrained browbeating bullying fascist zealots when pursuing a helpless teenager. They are pusilanimous cowards when imposing discpline on their own. Jack Dale and the FCPS sytem is hateful and toxic.

Mark is making a good point. Teachers HAVE due process. Students and parents most assuredly DO NOT. Not for minor nor major "stupid mistakes" that get treated like first degree felonies. Takebackourschools is totaly correct. Look at the FCPS data and you'll see the school board upholds 100% of all expulsion recommendations - whether "held in abeyance" or not. And let me darn well tell you that the zero tolerance hearing process is a total and complete NIGHTMARE for parents and students alike! If you don't have an advocate parent who can take hundreds of hours to work with you through it, you're SOL! Furthermore, it simply doesn't work.

I know this from unfortunate personal experience, but also from having canvassed and collected more than three dozen stories from other parents JUST FROM THREE FCPS SCHOOLS in the last two years.

I recommend that people get ahold of the following document ("Zero Tolerance Policies: An Issues Brief") produced at the request of the Virginia Board of Education in November 2005:
http://www.doe.virginia.gov/VDOE/suptsmemos/2006/inf003a.pdf

The most telling item in there is that there is NO evidence that zero tolerance policies work as expected!! There is overwhelming evidence that they are in fact detrimental to a child's growth, success, or rehabilitation. What do you supposed the board did with this info? Nothing? Big surprise.

Another major issue is the fact that FCPS puts out practically no accessible or accurate information on the results of or activities concerning zero tolerance and the student R&R. (Rights? What rights?) The board hides its ugly lack of scienctific and behavioral understanding behind "privacy rights." Divide and conquer.

Mark, I believe, is asking the system to make good for the goose what's good for the gander. I'd say that policies that toss human beings into the cesspit for being stupid or doing things with no intent to harm others should ALL be revisited and brought up to 21st Century human development code!

Add my voice to those speaking in principled opposition to FCPS ZT and its bullying hatemongers. And it's certainly not just Dale. The entire ZT apparatus is populated by his mean-spirited, brainless, and addlepated functionaries. In Fairfax county ZT is absolutely antiethical and exclusive to due process. Indeed, FCPS administrative appeal officer Dana Scanlon, as a prime example, HAS NEVER reversed a decision to suspend. Never. Ever. This means, of course, that there is no appeal from a principal's decision, and this, of course, means there is, as has been properly observed, no due process in Fairfax County. Check it out; Dana Scanlon has never, ever reversed an appeal. Not a single time. Not ever.

This policy where the hearing officers in FCPS just blindly uphold the recommendations from principals is a serious breach of due process. What is the point of having a hearing if the outcome is predetermined?

The idea that we are willing to throw a kid out of school for bringing tylenol to school or throwing a snowball or a little kid drawing a picture of a gun, is positively insane. We need to bring common sense back to our schools.

Like so many have already said, Zero Tolerance in the FCPS system is in dire need of overhaul. And add Pat Charbonneau to the long list of cold-hearted bullies within that contemptible group of "administrators". I have seen, first hand, the destruction they cause, and I believe them to be utterly corrupt. Their "appeal process" is a series of farcical "hearings" more reminiscent of the Soviet Show Trials than a fair and objective appeal process. Quite frankly, the need to go.

Quite frankly, parents need to stop making excuses for their children, period. Instead of blaming the school, we ought go be wondering why the parents haven't raised their kids to be respectful of property and behaviour, not to mention teaching them to take responsibility for their actions, and that their actions have consequences. What do they learn, when they do something egregious and mommy and daddy go to bat for them instead of working with them to learn that the actions are unacceptable??

Their "pranks" (usually an expulsion is more than merited), are keeping good kids from getting the education they deserve, because teachers and administrators spend a great deal of their time dealing with these types of students and their "pranks", taking time away from instruction, and attention away from students that deserve it. Shame, really.

Robert Marley for PRESIDENT!!

I feel compelled to respond to the comment by "Obvious". Although I cannot speak for VA law, in Maryland a principal may only recommend an expulsion or suspension of a student for more than 10 days. Then it goes to the area Superintendent for review, and recommendation to the Superintendent of Schools. If the Superintendent agrees with the recommendation, then the student has an absolute right to an evidentiary hearing before the Board of Education or an independent Hearing Examiner. So, in that respect, the due process rights of students and professional personnel are somewhat similar.

"Lawman" describes a process, which, if followed, would indeed protect the due process rights of all. The problem is, again, as so many have correctly observed, is that in Fairfax County it is a farce. The administrators conducting the appeal hearings are thoroughly corrupt. It has been made known, and it well worth repeating), that the hearing officers HAVE NEVER reversed a Principal's recomendation for expulsion. NEVER. With their mindless lock-step rubber stamping, they are the personnification of lawlessness and dishonesty, and are a blight on Fairfax County.

Roberrt Marley said:

"Thomas Jefferson and George Washington grew and used marijuana in the privacy of their Virginia homes, why should Mr. Marsh not be able to do the same?"

For the same reason that just because both Washington and Jefferson had slaves at their home, we aren't allowed to have slaves at home.

That was almost too easy to contradict, like shooting fish out of a barrel.

Do I smell the reasoning of a stoner?

I think the problem is that because the principals in FCPS are given so much discretion to punish the kids, it is ripe for arbitrary and capricious acts by administrators. A fight between 2 students at Annandale High School may receive one punishment where a fight under similar circumstances at Langley HS may receive another.

Money talks in this school district. And a parent out of Langley, Oakton or Mclean is more likely to hire an attorney to fight a decision than someone from a poorer school. Just look at the school safety report card data. Langley, as school of 2000 students, reported just 2 fights last school year. How likely is that?

The problem is lack of oversight. Jack Dale lets Eileen Graatan run the disciplinary machine at FCPS with free reign and the school board just goes along as always.

Is it really true that the hearing officers here in Fairfax NEVER reverse a Principal's recomendation to expel? Is that accurate? If so, it should be investigated, becasue it does indeed smack of dishonesty and indifference. An investigation into the matter would perhaps shed some light. Is the Post up to the task?

Lenny Marsh made a mistake and it has cost him his career. Believe me, he will probably be fired regardless of the legal outcome, and zero tolerance will certainly apply to him just as it has to students. But students AND school employees have due process rights. Please know that most administrators exercise good judgment and only put students up for suspension or expulsion when truly necessary. Students have every right to appeal suspensions and expulsions. It takes many hours to put a suspension or expulsion case forward, and I hope people realize that most administrators do not like to spend time on discipline. And that prank at Robinson? It WAS very disruptive and I'm sure took hours and hours of administrative time to resolve. When administrators spend time on disruptive pranks, they are NOT spending time supporting teachers and students in learning. Would you rather school officials spent time dealing with pranks or spending time supervising teachers and ensuring that all students receive high quality instruction?

In FCPS, last year, there were over 1000 recommendations from principals for expulsion. The hearing officers upheld every one of them yet the school board acted on only 235. so, MR EVERONE GETS DUE PROCESS, (who probably has been smoking weed with Mr Marsh), over 700 students and their families were put thru the expulsion process unnecessarily. If the principals have the "wisdom of Solomon" according to you, then why did 70% not get acted on by the SB??

Answer: because a recommendation for expulsion keeps the kid out of school for 10 days and if they appeal, possibly 6-8 weeks. Then the SB holds it in abeyance. A BIG DAMN WASTE OF EVERONE'S TIME. FCPS has some serious work to do in this area-they are lucky the ACLU is occupied with all of the violations at the national level, because they would be all over this.

FCPS is corrupt. FCPS discriminates based on gender and race in their discipline. FCPS lacks leadership and FCPS has a school board that is spineless and ineffective.

Sadly, the complaints being made against the FCPS appeal hearing officers is nightmarishly true. They are bullies and cowards, and every single parent I have spoken with related chillingly similar experiences. And yes Lindsey, it is also true that the hearings officers uphold every signle recomendation for expulsion a Principal makes. Every single one. It's quite a racket they got going on there.

The reason FCPS principals behave so recklessly is because they know they have the 100% backing of the hearing office. Other school districts have another level of oversight like MOCO that FCPS chooses not to have.

There was an incident at our elementary school last year between 2 12 year old girls and a boy. The boy had been teasing the girls mercilessly and kicking them and the girls had had enough. They would hit the boy in the arm for every time he would kick them. The boy gets a bruise and runs to the principal saying they hurt him. A number of sudents came forward stating that the boy was kicking them.

The principal punished the girls and not the boy. The girls got 10 day suspensions and recommendation for expulsion. They appealed all the way up to the SB tono avail. They missed six weeks of school. Even the school SRO who is a cop stated that the boy was not credible. The principal, Pat Conklin, when asking for the girls statements, ordered the one girl to rewrite her statement stating only what she did to the boy.

It was disgusting. Principals can do whatever they want to in disciplinary proceedings and the kids are powerless.

I'm not convinced that the schools are acting improperly here, however the clear double-standard is worrisome.

As a former FCPS student, I've seen students thrown under the bus for comparatively minor offenses (I personally came very close to being suspended for managing a web site critical of Chantilly High School on my own time outside of school)... yet teachers and administrators are granted much leeway for worse offenses.

Given that the schools are agents of local government, shouldn't students get the same due process protections that adults get dealing with any other government agency?

In my case I did not get suspended, merely because my father (who was in the military at the time) lectured the vice principal about how my dad hadn't sworn to uphold the constitution so that some vice principal could trample it. He also mentioned he'd be happy to call a lawyer, if necessary. The VP finally dropped the issue.

But I came inches away from a disciplinary nightmare, and I doubt the VP would have been punished for overstepping his authority. And I was a good kid (decent grades, went on to get a Public Administration degree from GMU, and currently work with a contracting firm on DOD projects). I'd hate to see how they treat the real discipline problems!

As predicted, the prohibitionists could not resist dismissing my comments as those eminating from a druggie.

Mark equates the personal use of cannabis sativa with the horrors of slavery in an effort to justify our nation's senseless (and unconstitutional) so called "War on Drugs."

Do I detect the stench of a brown-shirt wearing, goose-stepping fascist (and uneducated) moron?

Take a second and think about the ramifications of your stupid comments Mark. If the words/actions of Jefferson/Washington are irrelevant/useless because they owned slaves, where does that leave us?

I don't understand the comments, especially Lindemann's, about students not having representation while teachers can sue "for any little thing." Students are just as quick to sue a school district as the teachers are--they are far from "helpless." Schools worry just as much about protecting themselves from lawsuits when they discipline children as they do when they discipline adults. That concern undermines education more than it protects anybody.