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There's Nothing Perfect about Skins' 10

There is no shortage of troubling numbers associated with the Redskins' offense right now, but this one might be the scariest stat: Washington has been held to 10 points or less in five of its 13 games.

Only two teams have done it more often - Cleveland and Cinccinnati, this week's opponent have each done it seven times. Oakland and Seattle are right there with the Skins with five games of 10 or less points. Detroit (three), Kansas City (four) and St. Louis (four) are actually faring better than Washington in that regard.

All of the futility got me thinking back to 2004, the year that set offensive football back, at least around here. Year 1 of Gibbs 2.0 was about as ugly as it gets and to me this year's offense is more sound. The Redskins do employ sets of three receivers or more, unlike in that season, and the shotgun is no longer a dirty word. There isn't a quarterback controversy (as much as some might like one) and Clinton Portis hasn't come out and said an opponent knew every play the Skins were about to call (at least not that I am aware of) and Jon Jansen has not referred to the Midwest Coast Offense as "a 1991 offense."

So they've got that going for them.

Maybe it was just a flashback to the last brutal game the Redskins played against Baltimore - a 17-10 loss at FedEx in Gibbs's fifth game back in '04 - that got me waxing nostalgic, but let's take a look back at the bad old days and see how this year's outfit compares.

In 2004 the Skins had five games of 10 points or less, so the ZornSkins could still eclipse that dubious mark with three games to play. That 2004 team also reached 30 points one time; this group has gotten to 29, once.

The 2004 Skins averaged 275 yards per game, and this team is averaging 333 yards per game.

The 2004 team scored 240 points; this group should top that, since it has scored 218 already. (Right? They're gonna score 22 more points in three games, right?) That team had 26 TDs. This one has 22. This team is running the ball significantly better, but the yards per catch isn't much different (10.7 this season against 10 per game in 2004. That team lacked a 1,000-yard wide receiver; Santana Moss already has 876 yards.

So look on the bright side, people. Year 1 of Z-Ball is eclipsing Year 1 of Gibbs 2.0. There must be some solace in that.

By Jason La Canfora  |  December 10, 2008; 8:55 AM ET
 
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Next: Skins Add an Offensive Lineman

Comments

Good Morning

Posted by: bigfish761 | December 10, 2008 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Let me be the FIRST to say, you're a tool JLC.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 10, 2008 9:02 AM | Report abuse

That 2004 team didn't have Leigh Torrence either. We're screwed.

Posted by: bigfish761 | December 10, 2008 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Trade Portis for Torrence...that is the ONLY SOLUTION....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 9:05 AM | Report abuse

A point from the first post this morning: This: "He had been virtually certain to clear waivers at the time the Redskins traded a seventh-round pick for him over the summer." from JLC, is in direct opposition to what he said when that trade was made. I am looking for a link, but as I remember it, he said "it was a shrewd move" because there "would be a lot of teams going after him once he cleared waivers, and the guy has a lot of upside", or something to that effect.

And, Torrence again, man, we never would have lost these 6 games if we just had Torrence. Right

Posted by: craig2 | December 10, 2008 9:05 AM | Report abuse

Trade Portis for Torrence...that is the ONLY SOLUTION....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 9:05 AM | Report abuse

No, we should fire Zorn and hire Torrence.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 10, 2008 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Wilbon has absolutely no clue about the Redskins fans btw. Thinks the entire town will support Zorn over Portis, its clearly split.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 10, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Leigh Torrence is 1/8 Cherokee. It has nothing to do with his heritage, he just ate a Jeep.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 10, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

You are right we are fine. Jansen (who couldn't block my grandmother rushing Campbell) approves of this offense. OR maybe he just figured he's STFU since he's lucky to be playing.

Portis isn't saying the other team knew the plays we were running because he's not out there to hear them call them out because he was benched.

There isn't a QB controversy because Gibbs drafted the one that is starting now.

You are right on the three receiver sets. I guess that is a good thing? I mean if the third receiver isn't getting the ball what does it matter. Rather have anotehr blocker in.


Don't be a tool JLa.

Posted by: Gweez | December 10, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

I don't know anyone that would support Zorn in this situation. No one is saying Portis is above doing anything wrong, but he seems to be pretty stright forward as a man. He was leading the league in rushing all by himself. You can't ask more from a player that what he gives.

Posted by: Pleepleus | December 10, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Good Morning

Posted by: bigfish761 | December 10, 2008 9:00 AM

It was until LaCanMoron woke up with another boner for Torrence...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 10, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

The term perfect 10 has been replaced with perfect 29.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 10, 2008 9:12 AM | Report abuse

I am currently waiting on my confirmation email from a Saints blog.

I'm going to ask them what their opinion of Leigh Torrence is. Among the responses I expect to get is "Who?"

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 10, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse

It's amazing that people still doubt Gibbs. He had the character to make this team better than it was. Everyone wants to say the game passed Gibbs by. Gibbs is an innovator, nothing passed him by. He had to run a two tightend set on every play because this team is terrible. His offense wasn't passed by, he had to alter it so this team could have a chance.

Posted by: Pleepleus | December 10, 2008 9:15 AM | Report abuse

"So look on the bright side, people. Year 1 of Z-Ball is eclipsing Year 1 of Gibbs 2.0. There must be some solace in that."

Oh thanks, mighty mighty Ravens fan, for keeping the hope alive in Redskin nation. Maybe one day our team will be as great as the Baltimore Ravens!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 10, 2008 9:16 AM | Report abuse

I'm hoping JCL will post out the atmosphere of the locker room today after yesterdday's bruhah. I wonder if Portis isn't the only vet a little confused about his role on the team and/or the expectations of the coaching staff. We should be getting something like that later on.

Posted by: TWISI | December 10, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

He was leading the league in rushing all by himself. You can't ask more from a player that what he gives.

Posted by: Pleepleus | December 10, 2008 9:11 AM

While I agree with the last part of this statement, folks have to stop saying that Portis "was leading the league in rushing all by himself". ESPN was drooling all over the huge holes Portis was running through during the 4 game win streak. This line is what we thought it was -- a solid unit that is too old to last a full 16 games. So after looking good the first 8 games, Samuels started playing on one leg, Jansen lost what little mojo he had left, and the wheels fell off. But don't make it sound like we're playing with Detroit's line...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 10, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

this po guy knows everything about football


maybe he should be our GM


Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 10, 2008 9:21 AM | Report abuse

While I agree with the last part of this statement, folks have to stop saying that Portis "was leading the league in rushing all by himself". ESPN was drooling all over the huge holes Portis was running through during the 4 game win streak. This line is what we thought it was -- a solid unit that is too old to last a full 16 games. So after looking good the first 8 games, Samuels started playing on one leg, Jansen lost what little mojo he had left, and the wheels fell off. But don't make it sound like we're playing with Detroit's line...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 10, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

You have to be kidding. If the holes were so big how does Betts average about 2 yards per carry? How about tippy toe? The man is a few years removed from the league MVP. You are going to tell me he couldn't run a few yards because he is so washed up?

Posted by: Pleepleus | December 10, 2008 9:21 AM | Report abuse

Wow, you guys are letting JLC have it today.

Funny thing is, he actually posted something positive about Zorn's skins. I get the feeling, though, had he posted something about how Zorn is failing miserably in his task with the offense, you guys would be singing the exact same tune.

Posted by: psps23 | December 10, 2008 9:23 AM | Report abuse

"How about tippy toe? The man is a few years removed from the league MVP. You are going to tell me he couldn't run a few yards because he is so washed up?

Posted by: Pleepleus"

I'll be happy to tell you that, and sign a letter of confirmation on it as well.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 10, 2008 9:23 AM | Report abuse

Why are we still talking about Leigh Torrence?

Posted by: Gweez | December 10, 2008 9:23 AM | Report abuse

I'm certainly not supporting Zorn over Portis, and I'm acutely aware of how writers - Boswell, Wilbon, others - often cannot see the forest for the trees.

While Boswell writes of Portis as a "prima donna" and Zorn as the NFL's answer to Diogenes, he neglects (again, as most writers on this topic do) the most important element of this story:

That Jim Zorn, a first year head coach with no experience beyond coaching QBs, took his best player off the field at halftime Sunday night in a 14-0 game that the team had to have in order to have any realistic chance at the playoffs.

Worse, he doesn't have a leg to stand on in terms of justifying it; he started Portis knowing he hadn't practices all week, then suddenly has an epiphany at halftime? Sure thing. He infers Portis missed blocks/assignments, but cannot offer up any evidence to support that claim, even as Portis denies he missed anything out there Sunday night.

The question around Redskins nation shouldn't be does Portis get traded or cut or benched, but whether Jim Zorn is competent enough to coach this team.

Right now, I think it's up in the air.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 10, 2008 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Chuck Norris wears Leigh Torrence pajamas

Posted by: nag1055 | December 10, 2008 9:24 AM | Report abuse

"How about tippy toe? The man is a few years removed from the league MVP. You are going to tell me he couldn't run a few yards because he is so washed up?

Posted by: Pleepleus"

I'll be happy to tell you that, and sign a letter of confirmation on it as well.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 10, 2008 9:23 AM | Report abuse

I think its more realistic to assume he couldn't run for a few yards because he had become accustom to pro football players blocking for him. Spoiled boy.

Posted by: Pleepleus | December 10, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

Ok, so if Springs 2009 cap figure is 8.4 mil (6 mil salary and 2.4 mil release fee) and we cut him after this season, how much of that do we have to pay, and how much counts against the cap?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 10, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

ryp, in my limited knowledge, I believe it frees up 6 million in salary for 09.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Leigh Torrence and Sean Taylor once collided in practice going for an interception. The result of this collision was the AFC.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 10, 2008 9:31 AM | Report abuse

Leigh Torrence and Sean Taylor once collided in practice going for an interception. The result of this collision was the AFC.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 10, 2008 9:31 AM |
-------------------------

LOL

That's good.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 10, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Ok, so we wouldnt have to pay the salary of whoever we cut, but we would have to eat the release fee against the cap?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 10, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse

someone should tell JLC that Leigh Torrence was so bad he didn't even get Pro Bowl votes as a Redskin.

Khary Campbell had more Pro Bowl votes than Leigh Torrence.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 10, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

Of note ... both guys rely heavily on players from philly, dal and the jints (6 starters in all) -- which the two runner ups (myself and 4th) refused to use. Either Forrest and Zornskins will be the league champ, but without dignity. Right 4th?

*** end FF ***

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 9, 2008 8:51 PM

Exactly.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 10, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

ryp, wish I could offer you more detailed info, but there are a bunch of cats much more informed on this than I.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse

That Jim Zorn, a first year head coach with no experience beyond coaching QBs, took his best player off the field at halftime Sunday night in a 14-0 game that the team had to have in order to have any realistic chance at the playoffs.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 10, 2008 9:24 AM

I don't think Portis was the best player on the field Sunday night. He was averaging three yards per carry and fumbled the ball for a scoop-and-score. Nor did he have an impressive performance against the Giants. (22 yards was it?) I have no problem with Zorn benching Portis.

But regardless of whether the benching was warranted or not, Portis' shooting off his mouth is a different issue. Portis can't be making derisive comments to the media. What good does that do except possibly make him feel better? Bad move on Clinton's part and makes no sense, particularly when the team is making its play off push and still has a reasonable chance of making it. I was never a big Portis fan -- always thought he was a goofball and shot his mouth off too quick -- but this incident really made me lose respect for him.

Posted by: KWall1 | December 10, 2008 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Ok, so if Springs 2009 cap figure is 8.4 mil (6 mil salary and 2.4 mil release fee) and we cut him after this season, how much of that do we have to pay, and how much counts against the cap?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 10, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

I thought that he was in the final year of the contract.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 10, 2008 9:39 AM | Report abuse

This team sucks. Accept it. Keep buying the $90 seats, paying $10 for a Johnny Rockets burger, buying those ugly burgundy jerseys, and singing Hail to the Redskins, and, by the way, keep getting youe butt's kicked..

Posted by: po403 | December 10, 2008 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Springs will be back next season.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 10, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse

It's amazing that people still doubt Gibbs. He had the character to make this team better than it was. Everyone wants to say the game passed Gibbs by. Gibbs is an innovator, nothing passed him by. He had to run a two tightend set on every play because this team is terrible. His offense wasn't passed by, he had to alter it so this team could have a chance.

Posted by: Pleepleus | December 10, 2008 9:15 AM |

Pleep,

Gibbs was picking the players if the team was terrible why did'nt he get better players or an O-Linemen or two.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 10, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Leigh Torrence can kill two stones with one bird.

Posted by: nag1055 | December 10, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Others have said it, but I'll repeat it. JLC keeps bringing up Torrance because it's a perfect illustration of our front office buffoonary: cut a guy who contributes while James earns a paycheck (and costs us a draft pick) on the trainer's table. If it sucks to read about it, head over to Danny's fan site.

Posted by: mack1 | December 10, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse

It's a ludicrous comparison. Zorn wouldn't have even 7 wins without the personnel Gibbs 2.0 put in place.

Who the hell has Zorn brought in here, other than lame castoffs like Mike Green and Shaun Alexander.

You can give credit or blame to Vinny on the draft picks and Jason Taylor, but Zorn was clearly behind the signing of the two former Seahags.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 10, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Al, I believe he has ONE more year on his deal.

I'm calling ITA on someone.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

A lot of you guys just don't get it...

The major point JLC is trying to make is this is a PERFECT example of poor team management and failure of the front office (Vinny). Though it is not a big name or a big playmaker, role players like Torrence play MAJOR roles on successful teams. Look at say...the Patriots. Mistakes likes these just don't seem to happen on teams like the Patriots.

The second part is the impact it has on the locker room. Yes, the NFL is a business and the players understand this. But, they are human and have opinions and feelings just like the rest of us. When a good locker room guy like Torrence is let go without any real validation it does get to these guys. The team was pretty much shocked by the move. It takes the air out (things were going well when this happened) and makes them think that they could be next without any real reason. Of course, you don't want anyone thinking they are incapable of being cut but at the same time you don't want these guys playing scared either. Most likely some of you have seen this in some shape or form but imagine at your job if a well liked guy who was doing his job (however big or small it might be) and having sufficient success was let go. Would this have a positive effect on everyone else around the company? Probably not. It would cause a lot of water cooler chat about why Joe Shmo got the axe instead of XYZ rather than focusing on your job. It is a DISTRACTION and one that should not have happened! A divided locker room is a defeated locker room.

I know I have thrown myself to the wolves with this one along with Jasno but that's how I feel.

HAIL!

Posted by: Skins211 | December 10, 2008 9:42 AM | Report abuse

After hearing CP for myself I think more is being made out of this than what is really there. CP really didn't blast Zorn as it was reported on the blog.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 10, 2008 7:24 AM

Thanks for listening to it yourself.

It wasn't primarily focused on Zorn, but he was in the crosshairs many of time.

I believe it started out as a rebuttal to Zorn saying some BS to the media, so now it was his turn. He basically wears his heart on his sleeve, so he was just letting how he feels out.

And how he feels is, if he can play, he should be out there because he gives them their best chance to win. He's fine with Betts coming in. But he wasn't injured, so why not play him at all in the 2nd half.

I think it was indictment on Stump Mitchell and Zorn as the represent the offense......

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 10, 2008 9:42 AM | Report abuse

"Springs will be back next season.

Posted by: Original_etrod"

back on IR

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 10, 2008 9:42 AM | Report abuse

To put the argument to bed about who was right and wrong on the Zorn vs. Portis thing everyone saying CP was wrong plz watch this link:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2008/12/09/VI2008120903426.html?sid=ST2008120903052

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

Ok, so if Springs 2009 cap figure is 8.4 mil (6 mil salary and 2.4 mil release fee) and we cut him after this season, how much of that do we have to pay, and how much counts against the cap?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 10, 2008 9:27 AM |

The release fee on Shawn Springs is 5 million.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 10, 2008 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Actually, I think JLC keeps bringing up Torrence because it never fails to cause a stir on this board.

Which probably says more about Jasno's limitations than it does about this message board or Leigh Torrence himself.

To paraphrase The Youngbloods: Jasno is a one-note man; he plays it all he can.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 10, 2008 9:45 AM | Report abuse

back on IR

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 10, 2008 9:42 AM | Report abuse


Unfortunately not. He'll be back taking up a roster spot while missing 11 games.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 10, 2008 9:46 AM | Report abuse

thanks flound...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

I made a mistake yesterday for all those dummy's saying we should cut portis it would not cost 15 million. It would cost 18.5 million.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 10, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Wilbon crushed Zorn and the franchise in that talking points piece, thank God somebody calling it like it is.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

I listened to it now and it does not sound as bad as people think its was.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 10, 2008 9:50 AM | Report abuse

I absolutely support Zorn over Portis.

I love CP as a RB, and he brings it on gameday. He's tough and he's talented, but he absolutely has a diva streak in him. Anytime you let the inmates run the asylum you have problems. Zorn is the HC. He calls the plays and puts people on the field. Period. Why did he do it? Cp didn't exactly have a stellar half, maybe he didn't want CP beat up? Maybe he figured he'd get just as much out of underused Betts and save CP for the next 3 games that we actually have a chance of winning? Maybe he didn't like something about Cp's attitude that we don't know about?

Everyone oogles over the Giants and what a great thing they've got going up there. Remember that the Giants success was partly predicated on Coughlin having the stones to stand up and be the HC and not let guys like Tiki, Shockey and Plax be the tone-setters.

Posted by: p1funk | December 10, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

al, good to hear, jm thought the same thing, I'm hopefull this issue over-with, and JZ, and Portis talk...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, let's get rid of Portis, the best, toughest and most consistent back this franchise has had since John Riggins.

I can't wait to return to the days when we had as a feature back, Jamie Morris, or Timmy Smith (the Harold Miner of the NFL), or Reggie Brooks.

Portis? Who needs 'em!

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 10, 2008 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Everyone oogles over the Giants and what a great thing they've got going up there. Remember that the Giants success was partly predicated on Coughlin having the stones to stand up and be the HC and not let guys like Tiki, Shockey and Plax be the tone-setters.

Posted by: p1funk | December 10, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks!

Posted by: bigfish761 | December 10, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

You have to be kidding. If the holes were so big how does Betts average about 2 yards per carry? How about tippy toe? The man is a few years removed from the league MVP. You are going to tell me he couldn't run a few yards because he is so washed up?

Posted by: Pleepleus | December 10, 2008 9:21 AM

Dude, are you new? The ONLY RB good enough to literally run by himself was Barry Sanders. That's it, that's the list. Unless you can show me film that suggests that the line sucked in Dallas and Philly earlier this year and it was ALL Portis for 60 minutes each game I'll take my medicine. But this line was winning at the line of scrimmage during that 4 game stretch and THAT was why Portis went on that streak. If Portis could run by himself he'd be doing it now.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 10, 2008 9:54 AM | Report abuse

To put the argument to bed about who was right and wrong on the Zorn vs. Portis thing everyone saying CP was wrong plz watch this link:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2008/12/09/VI2008120903426.html?sid=ST2008120903052

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

Good pick up Z. Well that settles it for me, if Wilbon believes it then it must be true. I mean when has Wilbon ever been wrong about a Redskins player before? ST was killed because he lived a violent life.

Posted by: Gweez | December 10, 2008 9:55 AM | Report abuse

For all you Zorn supporters I have two words for you Trung Candidate.....remember, that's the last time we had a rookie head coach in the nfl who was an offensive genius who thought his system was the best thing since sliced bread and decided to marginalize and eventually cut Stephen Davis (who went on to have several great years for Carolina btw) because he wasn't the perfect fit for "his system."

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Tiki complained about the play-calling by coaches, AND criticized his QB, Portis has not; Shockey complained about not getting enough passes and missed team meetings, Portis has not, and Plaxico's troubles - from his domestic violence charge to his missing team meetings to his latest bonehead move with the gun in the NYC club, isn't even worth mentioning in the same breath as Portis.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 10, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse

I can't wait to return to the days when we had as a feature back, Jamie Morris, or Timmy Smith (the Harold Miner of the NFL), or Reggie Brooks.

Portis? Who needs 'em!

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 10, 2008 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Aren't KiJana Carter and Trung Canidate available somewhere?

Posted by: p1funk | December 10, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse

"embraced it, and refused to distance himself from it"

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Ok, so if Springs 2009 cap figure is 8.4 mil (6 mil salary and 2.4 mil release fee) and we cut him after this season, how much of that do we have to pay, and how much counts against the cap?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 10, 2008 9:27 AM |

The release fee on Shawn Springs is 5 million.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 10, 2008 9:44 AM | Report abuse

I believe if we cut him after the June 1st (?) deadline then it gets amortized over two years so it would count roughly 2.5 over next years cap and 2.5 over the year after that.

Posted by: Gweez | December 10, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Colin Cowherd is a poor man's Jim Rome. And Jim Rome is a moron. So Cowherd is a poor man's moron.

Posted by: davekempson | December 10, 2008 8:53 AM

From Steinbog

Posted by: CBT2 | December 10, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Am I the only one who is hearing the "genius" thing for the first time now?

Posted by: alex35332 | December 10, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Leigh Torrence playing for the Saints is really just a cover for a secret mission to rebuild the levees before the next class 5 hurricane hits the city.

Coincidentally, this storm will be called Hurricane Leigh

Posted by: Predator48 | December 10, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

I believe if we cut him after the June 1st (?) deadline then it gets amortized over two years so it would count roughly 2.5 over next years cap and 2.5 over the year after that.

Posted by: Gweez | December 10, 2008 9:57 AM

Gweez,

That would be true but remember you can only do that with one player, so if they want to release another player with a bigger cap hit they better use it correctly.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 10, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

I actually like Colin Cowherd.


Jim Rome is a nancy though.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 10, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Aren't KiJana Carter and Trung Canidate available somewhere?

Posted by: p1funk | December 10, 2008 9:57 AM |
--------

LOL... Yep.

And we could use someone like Kelvin Bryant to catch balls out of the back field.

He wasn't here long, but he did make some nice contributions while he was.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 10, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

How did we get caught up comparing Trung Candidate to Jim Zorn?

Posted by: bigfish761 | December 10, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Gweez | December 10, 2008 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Oh yeah I forgot, saint Taylor can never be questioned and if questioned the questioner's (one of the most well respected intelligent and successful commentators ever with a wealth of sports knowledge and experience in observing successful franchises and coaches who also happens to be the same race as Taylor so there is no possibility of the white media talking about the black player) opinions and knowledge are automatically and forever invalidated because you once saw a thug named Taylor tackle a guy real hard and maybe got an autograph or something which makes him the most special figure in your life and a completely blameless and innocent person.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Tiki complained about the play-calling by coaches, AND criticized his QB, Portis has not; Shockey complained about not getting enough passes and missed team meetings, Portis has not, and Plaxico's troubles - from his domestic violence charge to his missing team meetings to his latest bonehead move with the gun in the NYC club, isn't even worth mentioning in the same breath as Portis.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 10, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse

So when Portis went on the radio, you are saying that he did NOT complain about the HC, and did NOT complain about not getting enough touches in the game; earlier in the year when Portis had the Sporting News interview and talked about wishing he could run behind a better O-line he was NOT criticizing the guys who blocked for him?

Look, I like CP as much as the next guy, but runs his mouth to the media alot. You don't have to be a team cancer or a loafer in order to be a diva...

BTW - the only time I'm aware of Tiki publicly criticizing Eli was AFTER he left the team and went on air with NBC.

Posted by: p1funk | December 10, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Can we get a Leigh Torrence quote on Portis' comments? I'd love to hear what the glue that held the team together has to say about it.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 10, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Jacky-Z,

I agree completely re: Spurrier/Davis scaringly analogous to Zorn/Portis.

Why do I have the twisting feeling in my bowels that my worst fears about Zorny are being bearing rancid fruit.....

Irrational fan boy statement of the day: I wish Mike Tomlin was our coach, I love that dude...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 10, 2008 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Does Jim Rome take steroids and/or smoke to give himself that deep voice?

It's funny to go to YouTube and watch his interview with Jim Everett. Back then, he looked like a character from "Bosom Buddies" or something.

He looks completely different these days.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 10, 2008 10:03 AM | Report abuse

How did we get caught up comparing Trung Candidate to Jim Zorn?

Posted by: bigfish761 | December 10, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

cause Spurrier a then rookie head coach cut Stephen Davis cause he did fit the system and brought in Trung Candidate. Follow along muffin.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

For all you Zorn supporters I have two words for you Trung Candidate.....remember, that's the last time we had a rookie head coach in the nfl who was an offensive genius who thought his system was the best thing since sliced bread and decided to marginalize and eventually cut Stephen Davis (who went on to have several great years for Carolina btw) because he wasn't the perfect fit for "his system."

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 9:56 AM

If by "several great years for Carolina" you mean one good year, then yes...Davis was great. Getting rid of Davis didn't hurt much; we suffered with Canidate (and still would have with Barry Sanders in that Chuck and Duck offense of Spurrier's) and got Portis the next year. Davis was out of the league by 2005. No big deal. Portis will be irrelevant by 2010. Unfortunately, he'll still be the RB here when it happens.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 10, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

Let me be the FIRST to say, you're a tool JLC.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 10, 2008 9:02 AM | Report abuse

Go away. Forever. If you're so uptight that you have to slam Jason, you need to go somewhere else. Forever. So do the following:

Sign out.
Don't ever come back.
Root for the Rams. They need you.

Posted by: TiredOfLosers | December 10, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Irrational fan boy statement of the day: I wish Mike Tomlin was our coach, I love that dude...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 10, 2008 10:03 AM

I'm with you, CL--I've got a full blown man-crush on Tomlin. That's the coolest dude to ever wear a headset in the NFL. He's from Virginia and would've been perfect here. But that's what you miss out on when you've got a lousy owner...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 10, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Portis is much better than Stephen Davis.

Also, I doubt CP would have let Michael "I forgot to take my Prozac today" Westbrook get away with that sucker punch.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 10, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Jim Rome and Collin Coweherd they could be doing a show together and maybe finally we would see a sports radio show with no dead air.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 10, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse


How did we get caught up comparing Trung Candidate to Jim Zorn?

Posted by: bigfish761 | December 10, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

cause Spurrier a then rookie head coach cut Stephen Davis cause he did fit the system and brought in Trung Candidate. Follow along muffin.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

Was being fasicious of course. Just like I hope whoever was comparing Spurrier to Zorn was being. Next we'll be tying Zorn to Kevin Bacon which we all know can be done in way less than 7 degrees.

Posted by: bigfish761 | December 10, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Springs is signed thru 2009, but I was going on the assumption that he is gone next year (And his 09 salary is 6, release fee is 2.5 - which I assume is only for release after june 1st.)

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 10, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Sorry - facetious. My 6 year old got a hold of the keyboard:-)

Posted by: bigfish761 | December 10, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

wait, did I miss something, who did Zorn cut??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Sign out.
Don't ever come back.
Root for the Rams. They need you.

Posted by: TiredOfLosers | December 10, 2008 10:05 AM

This must be JLC's mom. Here's what YOU can do:

Stop having idiot kids.
Stop meddling in said idiot kid's workplace.
Have dinner ready for me when I get home.

Have a nice day.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 10, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 10, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse


2005 549 12 td's
2004 hurt
2003 1444 8 td's

maybe not several, but certainly much much more valuable than Trung.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Springs is signed thru 2009, but I was going on the assumption that he is gone next year (And his 09 salary is 6, release fee is 2.5 - which I assume is only for release after june 1st.)

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 10, 2008 10:08 AM |

Yes 5mil before june 1st 2.5mil after but the 2.5 in 2009 as well.

It would cost less to release him then it would to keep him as he has a very high salary in 2009 8.5mil

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 10, 2008 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Oh and someone mentioned only having 1 June 1st designation. Each team actually has 2 so Springs and another expensive vet like Griffin or Washington can be let go.

Posted by: bigfish761 | December 10, 2008 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Oh right its everyone attack everyone Wednesday

Posted by: alex35332 | December 10, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

po=JLC?

Posted by: trolly_time | December 10, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

I like Springs, I just wonder why he isn't the recipient of Zorny's quips the way Portis is, i.e., when Portis said he had blood running down both arms and legs, Zorn replied, "was it gushing?"

Atta boy, Zorny! Mock the toughest player you have on the team (now that ST is gone) and keep your mouth closed while Shawn Springs spends as much time cutting demo tapes for his future broadcasting career as he does rehabbing his calf (or whatever the heck it is that's ailing him).

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 10, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

1)Jim Zorn was hired by Dan Snyder
I)Dan Snyder defiled the owner's box by inviting Tom Cruise.
&)Tom Cruise stunk up the screen in A Few Good Men with Kevin Bacon.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 10, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

"So when Portis went on the radio, you are saying that he did NOT complain about the HC, and did NOT complain about not getting enough touches in the game; earlier in the year when Portis had the Sporting News interview and talked about wishing he could run behind a better O-line he was NOT criticizing the guys who blocked for him?

Look, I like CP as much as the next guy, but runs his mouth to the media alot. You don't have to be a team cancer or a loafer in order to be a diva...

BTW - the only time I'm aware of Tiki publicly criticizing Eli was AFTER he left the team and went on air with NBC.

Posted by: p1funk "

To add to that, here's a link to ExtremeSkins from I think two years ago :

direct link :

http://www.extremeskins.com/showpost.php?p=3394325&postcount=56

Link to full thread :

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=186846&page=4


So Portis HAS called out playcalling more than once in his career.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 10, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

JLC...

Dude - When are you going to learn to just SHUT you little pie hole about certain things... You sit back and play Monday Morning QB and Second Guess so much of what this Coaching Staff, and FO does when it doesn't work out. We know you're one jaded MF'r... You likely had a Boner on Sunday night when your team beat the team you cover and love to hate, but let it go... I've noticed you have finally convinced JReid to come over to the dark side now, b/c he's hating on this FO as much as you lately....

Posted by: EinVB | December 10, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Hey Rypien11 go to this site it gives you the figures you seek for all the players salary and release fees by year.


http://www.thewarpath.net/WarpathRedskinsCap.htm

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 10, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

bigfish, are you the bigfish that used to post last season?

Brownie, SD played in the league until 2006, and had more that 1 good year with Panthers (11 TD in 2005) and even if it was 1 good (2003)year-he lead them to the superbowl.....


I never understand how Redskins fans hate on S. Davis...it boggles my mind.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 10, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

ZJack, Wilbon is a homer for Portis ... and wrong. Facts are facts. Portis was not releasing quickly enough to be the check down. Betts got major receiving yards. The idea of putting Betts in for Betts plays and Portis in in between is as stupid as putting Jansen in for running downs and Heyer for passing downs. Telegraphing. The RB stays in for the series, if not the drive. Portis is a narcissist (thanks, 70Chip) with nothing to lose b/c his money is guaranteed. I do, however, agree with jm220 that Zorn and Portis should "Hug it out, [profanity]!"

Also, contrary to your suggestions to Jasno, I will not drop the Torrence issue. It was an act of stupidity and vanity by Vinny. Torrence is only one part of the story. The other part(s) of the story are Tryon and James ... two moves made by Vinny. I don't include inheriting the nickel (dime?) corner as a move by Vinny. It was just stupid, stupid, stupid, esp. now that it has costs the Skins a throwaway 7th round pick AND a serviceable depth corner. I will NOT drop it. Where's my drum?? I want to start banging it louder.

Posted by: dcsween | December 10, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Good. Cut Springs and Washington.

Sign Hall for 3 mil a year instead of the asinine 6 mil Springs would be earning.

Bring in Suggs at 4-5 mil to take Washingtons place.

Trade 16th pick in the draft for a 2nd and 3rd. Draft 3 O lineman and 2 D lineman.

Wash, rinse, and repeat in 2010 draft. Win super bowl in 2010.

Why can't I be GM?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 10, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

You likely had a Boner on Sunday night when your team beat the team you cover and love to hate, but let it go.
-----------------

LOL

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 10, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Flounder - yeah I saw that site, thanks.... just in my limited expertise I am not sure which figures counts 'against the cap' if we keep/cut a player, etc.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 10, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

The Skins need to trade Portis in the offseason. He can't run away from people anymore. We need a Chris Johnson type back to go with Betts.

Cut or trade list-

Jansen
Samuels
Rabach
R. Thomas
Kendall
Fabini
Cooley
Moss
Randel-El
Campbell
Grifin
J Taylor
A. Carter
Washington
Springs
Snyder
Cerrato

Posted by: knight1977 | December 10, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

and yes, to say Stephen Davis had "several great years" in Carolina proves that whoever said that doesn't keep up with the Panthers.

He had one pretty good year.


But as many have said, running backs are getting to the point where they are interchangable except for a guy like Adrian Peterson.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 10, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Was being fasicious of course. Just like I hope whoever was comparing Spurrier to Zorn was being. Next we'll be tying Zorn to Kevin Bacon which we all know can be done in way less than 7 degrees.

Posted by: bigfish761 | December 10, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Spurrier year 1 7-9 (a realistic Zorn possibility)

year 2 5-11

wiki:

In his first NFL season he put up a respectable 7–9 mark for a first-year head coach.

The defense created a modest amount of pressure and interceptions, but gave up 4.4 yards a carry and blew several leads during the season, including a 23–10 lead against the Miami Dolphins in week 12 and a 13–7 late 3rd quarter lead against Tampa Bay in week 6 that resulted in a 35–13 blowout.

One bright spot on his staff was his son, Steve Spurrier, Jr., who helped wide receivers Laveranues Coles and Rod Gardner reach their finest seasons thus far in the NFL, including Coles' only Pro Bowl appearance to date.

Another bright spot was in Week 4 of the 2003 season. Washington defeated the New England Patriots 20–17; it would be New England's last loss until Week 7 of the 2004 season. The Redskins went 5–11 in that season.

Spurrier's offensive line troubles resulted in quarterback Patrick Ramsey being one of the most sacked and hurried quarterbacks in the league. Spurrier would often bench him mid-game during a bad performance in favor of Danny Wuerffel or Shane Matthews, who both played under Spurrier at Florida. Both combined for 14 touchdowns and 12 interceptions in 15 games played. (TD/INT Wuerffel 3–6 with 7 games, Matthews 11–6 with 8 games).

Spurrier's last game as an NFL head coach was a 31–7 blowout at the hands of the Eagles. In their last three games, the Redskins were outscored 85-31 including a 27–0 loss to the Dallas Cowboys.

On December 30, 2003, Spurrier resigned as the Redskins coach.


right now the only improvement is Zorn isn't pulling Campbell in and out of games....in fact the genius that Zorn is will still have Moss (with a gimpy hammy) running go routes and Campbell potetnially getting sacked and hurt with 16 seconds left in a game that you're down two scores in with 3 games left and still a potential playoff birth if you can run the table. (assuming none of your players get hurt on a stupid meaningless play, even Madden was saying "I don't understand this, there's no such thing as a 14 point play just take a knee, right now you just pray nobody gets hurt on this.")

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

the problem with La canfora is that he has been right on some things, old offensive line that played great at times, but then broke down, should have cut James instead of Torrence, but as a fan of the team, as i'm sure almost all of us are here on the blog, he is so smug and likes to rub in the team's mistakes or bad run of play right in our faces so much that i begin to have really strong feelings of dislike for a man i have never even met before. by asking us whether this year's teams gives us solace because Gibbs' team in 2004 also had a putrid offense just ticks me off to no end. but maybe that's what he wants.

Posted by: namichal1029 | December 10, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

OK, so you're saying Portis is akin to Tiki in his comments.

I can agree with that; but the initial post compared him to Shockey and Burress as well.

I can't agree with that; as Portis stated, he never misses team meetings, and even when he doesn't practice, he's on the sidelines watching and hearing everything.

Also, he denies missing anything Sunday night; and to date, I have yet to see/hear anyone - most notably Zorn - refute that.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 10, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Andre Carter, Todd Collins, and Randy Thomas are signed thru 2013!!!! Good god, theyre gonna be in wheelchairs by then.

Randy Thomas is already awful.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 10, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

I would like to say that you are all retarded and moronic. That I am smarter and 100% right about everything, and if you disagree with my on anything then you are wrong about everything even when you and I agree about something. That all those who hate on JLC or the front office or Danny or Portis or Zorn or JC or the old players are wrong and those who support JLC or the front office or Danny or Portis or Zorn or JC or the old players are all right.

So F you all:-)

Posted by: alex35332 | December 10, 2008 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Sween,

I agree with you (and Jasno) about Torrence but I think that 6 weeks is a long enough time to mourn. But hey, it gives me something to make fun of so I'm not complaining.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 10, 2008 10:20 AM | Report abuse

For all those clamoring for the post JLC said in October about Torrence:

"Special teams really hurt the Skins again. They got crushed in field position for the most part, and that kept an inept Browns offense in the game. Plackemeier has to get better - right? - because the 32-yard punts and stuff were weak. (Leigh Torrence failed to down the first punt deep, which could have turned the tide of the game early.) Rock Cartwright was a demon on teams as always, but those units struggled in critical areas again."

Sure sounds like he was worth all the priase...

Posted by: AisforAdam | December 10, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

I never said I didn't like Stephen Davis, CL...just that in the grand scheme of things his release wasn't a big deal. In '03 he had a career year and the Skins struggled. That was it. We had Portis the next year and the year after he broke all of Davis' records. It's not like in Miami where 10 years later they're still looking for even a viable replacement for Marino. The Skins rebounded nicely and almost immediately.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 10, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

I have been trying to ignore the Truth I really have, but Davis' "He had one pretty good year." with Panthers:

1400+ yards in 14 games 8 TD, lead the league in post season yards and carried his team to within a last second Viniteri FG of beating the Patriots dynasty in the superbowl.....

Gawd I wish we could have some "pretty good years" like that around here......

Posted by: chrislarry | December 10, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Ok, how is Randy Thomas have a contract equal to Santana Moss? 5 mil a year thru 2013??? The guy shouldn't even be starting.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 10, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse

"Special teams really hurt the Skins again. They got crushed in field position for the most part, and that kept an inept Browns offense in the game."
---------------------

The Redskins won that game.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 10, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse

The release fee on Shawn Springs is 5 million.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 10, 2008 9:44 AM | Report abuse

I believe if we cut him after the June 1st (?) deadline then it gets amortized over two years so it would count roughly 2.5 over next years cap and 2.5 over the year after that.

Posted by: Gweez | December 10, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Because 2009 is the last Capped year, there will be no post June 1st cuts counted against the next year's cap because there will be no cap next year.

So, in essence we have to go 1 more year with the team we have before the team can be 'blowed' up........

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 10, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Great quote by Boswell:

The powerful lesson of both Gibbs tenures -- one as a great coach, the other as a merely good one -- was that coaching is about dealing with people more than anything else. Motivating them, understanding them deeply, melding them and, in many cases, accommodating their quirks and needs.

Long ago, Walter Lippmann wrote, "The genius of a good leader is to leave behind him a situation which common sense, without the grace of genius, can deal with successfully."

When he left, Gibbs thought he had met that standard, especially in the unified character of the Redskins' locker room that he had carefully built. Now that room is in danger of splintering.

A little more common sense, and a little less self-indulgent honesty, might have prevented it.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

OK, so you're saying Portis is akin to Tiki in his comments.

I can agree with that; but the initial post compared him to Shockey and Burress as well.

I can't agree with that; as Portis stated, he never misses team meetings, and even when he doesn't practice, he's on the sidelines watching and hearing everything.

Also, he denies missing anything Sunday night; and to date, I have yet to see/hear anyone - most notably Zorn - refute that.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 10, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

My initial post was about the HC being able to lead and stand up to the strong personalities on the roster - whoever they may be. In NYG those personalities were the likes of Tiki/Shockey and Burress, IMO. In Washington it is CP.

I don't think Portis is like a Shockey/Burress in all aspects of his attitude; but I think that Portis is a talented player with a strong personality and a "me-first" streak that comes out from time to time. If JZ is going to be a coach that leads his team and demands respect, he's got to be able to stand up against those personalities. Otherwise we get a Wade-Phillips type - a joke that commands no respect and gets pushed around by the TO-types.

Posted by: p1funk | December 10, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Seriously if u listen to the Portis interview you will realize its not as big a problem as people think. On a scale of 1-10 I would say its about a 3

Posted by: alex35332 | December 10, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Do Bostic, Grimm and Jacoby have sons?

If so, we should sign them ASAP.

Can't be any worse than that Weeble (Geisinger) I saw roll onto the field Sunday night when Samuels went out.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 10, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Flounder - yeah I saw that site, thanks.... just in my limited expertise I am not sure which figures counts 'against the cap' if we keep/cut a player, etc.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 10, 2008 10:17 AM |

The Release Fee is what counts against the cap nothing else.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 10, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

CL - Same bigfish. Different moniker.

Posted by: bigfish761 | December 10, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Whateves, not going to relive the Spurrier years even though I got opinions out that watusi hole.....to much of a nightmare that I hope not but think we may now begin reliving.

Is Zorn the west coast surfer dude version of Spurrier's southern gentlemen country club golfer, well we will see won't we....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 10, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Gawd I wish we could have some "pretty good years" like that around here......

Posted by: chrislarry | December 10, 2008 10:22 AM

I do to, CL...but I think he was saying that STATISTICALLY Davis had a pretty good year.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 10, 2008 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Seriously if u listen to the Portis interview you will realize its not as big a problem as people think. On a scale of 1-10 I would say its about a 3

Posted by: alex35332 | December 10, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

It's a 3 for CP; which is like a 7 for a normal player. We are used to CP's running commentary so it isn't a big deal in CP-land. But if any other player got on the air and started talking about "splitting ties" or getting "put on IR" just he got his PT scaled back in 1 game, we'd be like: "What's this guy's problem?"

Posted by: p1funk | December 10, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

So, in essence we have to go 1 more year with the team we have before the team can be 'blowed' up........

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 10, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

That's assuming we hit the uncapped year which everyone on here seems so sure about if it doesn't happen we're in trouble.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Hey than welcome back Big Fish!


Doesn't Grimm's son play at VA Tech? My 21 year old brother used to have topless pics of his daughter on his cell phone....kids today!

Posted by: chrislarry | December 10, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

"I have been trying to ignore the Truth I really have, but Davis' "He had one pretty good year." with Panthers:

1400+ yards in 14 games 8 TD, lead the league in post season yards and carried his team to within a last second Viniteri FG of beating the Patriots dynasty in the superbowl.....

Gawd I wish we could have some "pretty good years" like that around here......

Posted by: chrislarry"

jeeze dude, sorry I didn't look up the stats. I'm aware of the Superbowl loss, but those are some stats pulled outta you-know-where.

He "led his team to the Superbowl"? Come on, that's a big disservice to the rest of that team.

8 TD? Okay.

If you're in the Superbowl, odds are you're going to lead the league in postseason rushing yards.

And no, I'm not a Stephen Davis hater. I'm a big fan of his and was cheering for them to beat the Patriots, but don't get it confused, that's nothing groundbreaking and we didn't suffer from that particular move.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 10, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

+++Let me be the FIRST to say, you're a tool JLC.

Posted by: brownwood26+++

This is a useful comment because you are teaching your fellow Vinny's Angels the correct use of contractions.

II have a feeling everyone will be in Full Snark today.

Posted by: TheCork | December 10, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

to answer the question about former Redskins sons, I believe Don Warren, has a son who plays for either Virginia, or Virginia Tech, whomever played Boston College for the ACC title last week. Former Redskin player, Peter Cronan, does the broadcast up here. He mentioned Warren, and I think, if I'm not mistaken Jeff Bostic has a son there as well. Both I believe play defense, because they were both in on a tackle during the game....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 10:33 AM | Report abuse

I don't think Zorn is anything like Spurrier, who was lazy (spent more time playing golf than he did watching film), and at the end, completely indifferent.

Zorn is anything but indifferent. The question is, does he have a rigid agenda or a flexible one.

Not playing Portis in the second half of a 14-0 game against an anemic offense (Baltimore) was poor judgment, imho.

If Portis plays the last 30 minutes, we have a chance on any snap to get things going and maybe win. But without him, that chance is considerably diminished.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 10, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

For all those clamoring for the post JLC said in October about Torrence:

"Special teams really hurt the Skins again. They got crushed in field position for the most part, and that kept an inept Browns offense in the game. Plackemeier has to get better - right? - because the 32-yard punts and stuff were weak. (Leigh Torrence failed to down the first punt deep, which could have turned the tide of the game early.) Rock Cartwright was a demon on teams as always, but those units struggled in critical areas again."

Sure sounds like he was worth all the priase...

Posted by: AisforAdam | December 10, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

One item for today, from Boswells column, which was great , is this...

"There's a world of difference between a coach who never tells a lie (Gibbs) and a coach who gives himself the prerogative to tell the truth (Zorn). The first illustrates character. The second borders on being foolhardy"

Posted by: Zeebs | December 10, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Doc Walker's son plays for the Terps, though mostly on Special Teams...

Posted by: p1funk | December 10, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Thanks Truth you reminded me why I need to go back to ignoring you.....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 10, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

The Skins need to trade Portis in the offseason. He can't run away from people anymore. We need a Chris Johnson type back to go with Betts.

Cut or trade list-

Jansen 9.8mil
Samuels 13.8mil
Rabach 2.2mil
R. Thomas 16.8mil
Kendall 750thou
Fabini 40thou
Cooley 13.5mil
Moss 10.2mil
Randel-El 8.8mil
Campbell 2mil
Grifin 4.5mil
J Taylor free
A. Carter 8.9mil
Washington 4mil
Springs 5mil
Snyder you are dumb
Cerrato maybe but I doubt it.

Are you still pushing this ignorant agenda you have been playing to much Madden, this would be impossible even in Madden.

That would be 90mil in cap hits not to mention some of the best players on the team.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 10, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

++++I can't believe he is still on this sht.

JM220

And, Torrence again, man, we never would have lost these 6 games if we just had Torrence. Right

Posted by: craig2

Let it go.....let it go....

Posted by: BeantownGreg |

NOW MOVE THE **** ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: brownwood26++++

Naah… Keep Posting about Torrence. It helps us update our list of Front Office Defenders. (You guys got the call JLC a "tool" talking point memo, right?)

Yeah, the Torrence thing is waaaaay over-reported. But only because cutting him was only a small part of the overall FO ineptness that is bringing this team crashing and burning to the ground.

Posted by: TheCork | December 10, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Good Morning
Posted by: bigfish761 | December 10, 2008 9:00 AM

It was until LaCanMoron woke up with another boner for Torrence...
Posted by: brownwood26 | December 10, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse
-----------------------

This was hilarious

Posted by: thor2 | December 10, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Doesn't Grimm's son play at VA Tech? My 21 year old brother used to have topless pics of his daughter on his cell phone....kids today!

Posted by: chrislarry | December 10, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Grimm's son and Donnie Warren's son both play for Tech.

and CL I couldn't agree more, Zorn is scaring the crap out of me right now, its so similar to Spurrier its frightening, self appointed offensive genius with even less accomplishments that Steve (I mean at least Spurrier won a national title) who refuses to adapt his system or make adjustments which are causing his young qb to take a beating, continually blaming everybody for not executing his plan properly, and then clashing with the team's franchise back........


its getting to be deja vu all over again.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse

And no, I'm not a Stephen Davis hater. I'm a big fan of his and was cheering for them to beat the Patriots, but don't get it confused, that's nothing groundbreaking and we didn't suffer from that particular move.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 10, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Didn't suffer? Are you kidding? Trung freaking Candidate!

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Is Zorn the west coast surfer dude version of Spurrier's southern gentlemen country club golfer, well we will see won't we....

Posted by: chrislarry

I am starting to think that he is. Like the old ball coach he hasn't change anything to his game plan even though everyone can see it is not working

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 10, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Blame Jason La Canfora all you want for the constant Torrence whining, but credit him for pointing out the massive personnel blunders executed by Vinny Cerrato. I mean, giving up a pick and a special teamer for a guy you later release in the same year you trade a pick for an older guy who doesn't fit in to your scheme is insane. And what will the Skins look like if Jason Taylor jumps ship and deprive them of whatever it was he was supposed to give them as a player for that second round pick they'll need in April? And we won't go into not signing Derrick Dockery, but then trading away draft picks for an older guy in Pete Kendell who now has to be replace with picks you don't have. Until Cerrato goes, the Skins are a dog that's nibbling at its own tail for pleasure.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 10, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

++++This line is what we thought it was -- a solid unit that is too old to last a full 16 games. So after looking good the first 8 games, Samuels started playing on one leg, Jansen lost what little mojo he had left, and the wheels fell off. But don't make it sound like we're playing with Detroit's line...

Posted by: brownwood26++++

I'd like to take this opportunity to praise Brownwood. Right on.

Posted by: TheCork | December 10, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

One item for today, from Boswells column, which was great , is this...

"There's a world of difference between a coach who never tells a lie (Gibbs) and a coach who gives himself the prerogative to tell the truth (Zorn). The first illustrates character. The second borders on being foolhardy"

Posted by: Zeebs | December 10, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

I haven't read Boz's column, but that line makes me roll my eyes.

When Zorn started his press conferences and actually told people relevant information and honest opinions, the Washington media breathed a collective sigh of relief to finally have a coach that said more than company-line cliches ("blame me") and meaningless platitudes ("we played our guts out")- which is what Gibbs did all the time.

Now that Zorn's team is losing, his style is "foolhardy"? Whatever. Why didn't Boz write this during the win streak...

Posted by: p1funk | December 10, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

FIRE CERRATO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: BarackObama | December 10, 2008 10:39 AM | Report abuse

... I think that 6 weeks is a long enough time to mourn. But hey, it gives me something to make fun of so I'm not complaining.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 10, 2008 10:20 AM

To paraphrase daggar, we can get Vinny canned only if we blog hard enough.

Cody Grimm is a stud. I don't remember if he is OLB or DE, but he is a standout on that Va Tech D.

Posted by: dcsween | December 10, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

"Thanks Truth you reminded me why I need to go back to ignoring you.....

Posted by: chrislarry "

what do you disagree with?

You think Stephen Davis was the only player that could've put up those stats that year in Carolina?

Gimme a break, you're too full of it man.

I decided to look up the stats. He wasn't even top 10 in TD's. He was #7 in rushing yards, even including his "post season rushing yards" (which is a pointless stat since more games played for your team = more rushing yards for the individual, obviously.)

He was #10 in rushing attempts. He was #4 in rushing yards per game with just over 103 yards per game. He didn't make the top 10 in rushing yards per attempt.


Yeah, that's a PRETTY GOOD year. What else would you call it???

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 10, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

re: Torrance

JLa keeps harping on these personnel decisions because it is the constant, repetitive nature of these small mistakes that crushes this team in the long run.

Another recent example is trading a second round pick for Jason Taylor who has made no impact and won't be here next year.

No, cutting Torrance did not matter too much as a single decision. But, JLa won't let it go because it is so emblemmatic of the fact that Vinny and Snyer make the SAME personnel mistakes OVER and OVER, trading away value (picks and players) and getting NOTHING of long term value in return.

Posted by: waldmant | December 10, 2008 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Everyone oogles over the Giants and what a great thing they've got going up there. Remember that the Giants success was partly predicated on Coughlin having the stones to stand up and be the HC and not let guys like Tiki, Shockey and Plax be the tone-setters.

Posted by: p1funk | December 10, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks!

Posted by: bigfish761

I think all the anti-Zorn folks want to ignore this, since it makes perfect sense, and contradicts their agenda.
FO grow some big ones and back the HC!

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 10, 2008 10:41 AM | Report abuse

+++Springs will be back next season.

Posted by: Original_etrod+++


How do you know that? Has he already reserved his seat in the whirlpool for next year? Have they ordered extra analgesics? Has Springs laid in a supply of Bespoke Sideline suits so he looks Fly during games? Or, OMG, are they trying to re-acquire Torrence to fill his roster spot when he's put on IR?

Posted by: TheCork | December 10, 2008 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 10, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

p1funk are you really that narrow in your thinking that you don't see how it is possible for Boz (the media at large) to understand how Zorn's candor is GOOD FOR THEM IN THEIR JOB while being possibly counter productive for Zorn doing HIS JOB??

Yup lets attack the media, that will get us a SB......sure has worked for Snyder so far......

Posted by: chrislarry | December 10, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Read it pfunk, it is good and he mentions all those things.

Look, i hated the gibbsian style too, but if it meant not rocking the boat, then i trust him to know whats best for his team and the egos on it than Zorn.

But if gibbs did blast, at least he has the rings to flash at the player when he does, say like parcells.

Zorn doesnt and shouldnt...

Posted by: Zeebs | December 10, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

FIRE CERRATO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: BarackObama | December 10, 2008 10:39 AM

Unfortunately, Mr. President-Elect, this has about as much chance of happening as your idea for college FB playoffs. Keep up blogging hard though!

Posted by: dcsween | December 10, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Thanks 4th. I think this team needs to be blowed up. I wish we could get rid of Danny boi. Maybe if we axed him nicely?

Posted by: Gweez | December 10, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

What did you say Truth.....what is truth really....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 10, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Why didn't Boz write this during the win streak...

Posted by: p1funk


Because Clinton Portis wasn't firing back during the win streak. The media loved his honesty then, and believe me they still love his honesty now. That doesn't make it good for the Redskins.

Posted by: psps23 | December 10, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Leigh Torrence doesn't read a playbook, he stares it down until it gives him the play he needs.

Posted by: nag1055 | December 10, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

chris and Zeebs,

fair enough guys; I haven't read the column so I'm shooting from the hip.

All I'm saying is where was this opinion when we were winning? It was nowhere to be heard. Hard to give extra credit for a criticsm (even if it is fair) that's coming when everyone is piling on the coach already.

Posted by: p1funk | December 10, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

WOW. Portis is the league leader in career yards per rushing attempt at 5.5!?!?! Zorn did him a favor by pulling him when he did ... the Ravens were only putting downward pressure on that average.

Posted by: dcsween | December 10, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

"What did you say Truth.....what is truth really....

Posted by: chrislarry"

should've just said "Well darn, Truth might actually have a point. I think he got me there."


or at least reply to the facts

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 10, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Coughlin wouldn't have been fine starting Tiki (or Jacobs), then suddenly decide at halftime - down 14-0 - Gee, he didn't practice all week, I better bench him for the second half.

No way. No how.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 10, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Even though Portis said he would "cheer for Ladell," it was clear in the rest of it and btwn the lines he was badmouthing Betts. Wilbon was much more candid and direct in saying that the Skins don't have a #2 back.

Posted by: dcsween | December 10, 2008 10:47 AM | Report abuse

I never got why all you people would get upset by Gibbs speak....that is EXACTLY (caps for emphasis...see 4th was right...)what/how you want your coach to be. Now if I was covering the team it would chap my azz b/c I would have to work harder....but I don't so I love a buttoned lip say nothing coach who befuddles the media and other teams....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 10, 2008 10:47 AM | Report abuse

This just in. Shawn Springs says that he will be 100% healthy in the off season but indicates he will most likely have a calf/ankle sprain during training camp that will limit him to 2-3 games next year.

But as a side note, he is happy he is getting full time money. He states that the UAW workers have nothing on him for getting paid big bucks for not working.

Posted by: fearturtle44 | December 10, 2008 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Set Fire to FedEx Field. ;)

Posted by: alex35332 | December 10, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Ummm no he was #4 in rushing yards in 2003 and in 2005 he was tied for 5th in rushing TD's with 12, 2,000 yards 20 TD's for carolina in 2 healthy years meanwhile the two years after we cut him we had 13 rushing td's total as a team.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Fire Zorn. Hire Eddie Jordan. Trade Portis for JaVale McGee and Nick Young.

Posted by: bigfish761 | December 10, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

I never got why all you people would get upset by Gibbs speak.... the media and other teams....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 10, 2008 10:47 AM | Report abuse

My beef was this - Where was the accountability? The team had an atrocious and confusing coaching structure. It had a confusing FO structure. No one really knew who was in charge or making decisions. And no one was allowed to address the media except Gibbs. When it came down to the games and the plays, all we got was standard-issue coach speak. As a fan who is spending time and money supporting the team, it would have been nice to get a little transparency once-in-a-while.

Posted by: p1funk | December 10, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

It's not like in Miami where 10 years later they're still looking for even a viable replacement for Marino.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 10, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Actually it's 8 years (Danny retired in 2000), and we have one now, thanks to Brett refusing to stay retired!

Posted by: Redcoat | December 10, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Truth the problem with your namesake and the stats that go with it is, its still all about the perspective of the beholder...kinda like beauty....I like a big bottomed girl, you prolly favor a bulemic...,,

F truth its all relative anyway....so you have your opinion I will have mine....we both threw facts and stats out....can we please just go back to not liking and ignoring eachother...I promise to do my part and not address you anymore. The world is over populated anyway, we don't have to like everybody in it....enjoy the Jiffy Lube Free Tire Rotation Bowl by the way....

I addressed yu today first, my bad.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 10, 2008 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Set Fire to FedEx Field. ;)

Posted by: alex35332 | December 10, 2008 10:50 AM

"Fire! Fire! Fire!"

[slap] "Settle down, Beavis."

Posted by: dcsween | December 10, 2008 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Ok, so obviously were not getting rid of Samuels, Thomas, Jansen, or Carter, since their cap hits are 9, 13, 6 and 7 mil. Ugh.

We still need to bring in young guys to challenge them and/or take their spots.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 10, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

umm truth, where are you getting your stats? he was 4th in the league in yards, 4th in the league in yds/carry at 4.5 and 4th in the league at 103.1 yds per game.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Naah… Keep Posting about Torrence. It helps us update our list of Front Office Defenders. (You guys got the call JLC a "tool" talking point memo, right?)

Yeah, the Torrence thing is waaaaay over-reported. But only because cutting him was only a small part of the overall FO ineptness that is bringing this team crashing and burning to the ground.

Posted by: TheCork | December 10, 2008 10:34 AM

Don't get it twisted, Cork. I HATE this ownership and FO COMPLETELY. Almost to the point where I would seriously consider aiding any planned assassination attempt hatched out on the blog. But Torrence is WAAAYYY down the list of egregious errors by the FO and is nowhere near worthy of the attention given my JLC. EVERYTHING that goes wrong with this team starts at the top, but discussing it every day isn't going to make it better, nor does it provide a pass for the coaches and players who simply aren't getting it done on the field.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 10, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Sween u know u want to burn the Monster of Maryland.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 10, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

basically a top 5 season and a superbowl run, wanna know what trung did that year?

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Everyone oogles over the Giants and what a great thing they've got going up there. Remember that the Giants success was partly predicated on Coughlin having the stones to stand up and be the HC and not let guys like Tiki, Shockey and Plax be the tone-setters.

Posted by: p1funk | December 10, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks!

Posted by: bigfish761

I think all the anti-Zorn folks want to ignore this, since it makes perfect sense, and contradicts their agenda.
FO grow some big ones and back the HC!


Posted by: lsskinsfan


I'm borderline anti-Zorn (this weekend might put me over the edge) but few people wouldn't back the HC in this situation.

However, there is a HUGE difference between a guy like Tom Coughlin who was well respected, has been around forever, and has had measures of success in the league and Jim Zorn, who is a rookie head coach that nobody outside of Seattle truly knows.

When Atlanta players (including our own DHall) started popping off at the mouth towards Bobby Petrino, which side was the "correct" side to support?

Zorn's obviously not a d-bag like Petrino, but the argument of talented, proven players vs. unproven rookie HC remains the same.

My opinion is that if Portis is complaining, generally speaking, there's an issue. And I get the feeling Portis isn't the only one that feels less-than-satisfied with Zorn (Cooley's another that comes to mind).

Posted by: psps23 | December 10, 2008 10:56 AM | Report abuse

"Truth the problem with your namesake and the stats that go with it is, its still all about the perspective of the beholder...kinda like beauty....I like a big bottomed girl, you prolly favor a bulemic...,,

F truth its all relative anyway....so you have your opinion I will have mine....we both threw facts and stats out....can we please just go back to not liking and ignoring eachother...I promise to do my part and not address you anymore. The world is over populated anyway, we don't have to like everybody in it....enjoy the Jiffy Lube Free Tire Rotation Bowl by the way....

I addressed yu today first, my bad.

Posted by: chrislarry"

Let's get this straight :

ChrisLarry - "Truth is an idiot, Stephen Davis didn't have one "pretty good" year, he had the best year ever OMG"

The Truth - "Well here's stats the prove otherwise."

ChrisLarry - "Dude, let's just not talk anymore, we don't like each other, blah blah blah."

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 10, 2008 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Sorry, I should have said "stay retired. Again. Again. Again." just now ...

Nothing good can come of this situation. Zorn now has to show everyone that he is 'in charge', how does he do that?

Maybe he shows he's the big guy by putting Portis on the field for EVERY down?
Maybe he sits him for a series?
Maybe he just pretends it never happened?

What do you guys think?


Posted by: Redcoat | December 10, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

p-funk......I am pro-transparency in almost every other venue...in pro football its retarded. A team should be broadcasting Mixilplix at all times....

The accountability, fights, explanations should all be done in house and distributed to everyone else via crafted talking points....

Isn't the opposite why we find ourselves where we are now, re:zorn/portis.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 10, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

cL, that would be the Capital One Citrus Bowl (where Georgia is the visitor to host MICHIGAN STATE*), thanks very much.

* College buddy of mine (Skins fan) called me the morning after Plaxico's run-in with his piece with a "good news/bad news" update.

Good news: Plaxico Burress shot himself in the thigh and won't be suiting up against the Skins!

Bad news: One fewer MSU alums in the NFL and more bad press.

Posted by: dcsween | December 10, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

"When Atlanta players (including our own DHall) started popping off at the mouth towards Bobby Petrino, which side was the "correct" side to support?"


Obviously they backed Petrino or the FO because you see what happened to Hall after that.

Posted by: bigfish761 | December 10, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

"basically a top 5 season and a superbowl run, wanna know what trung did that year?

Posted by: zjfr2 "

I would say a top 10 season and he played in the Superbowl.

But I wasn't talking about the Panthers, I was talking about Stephen Davis.

And he obviously had a better year than Candidate, but we got Portis the next year and he's been pretty darn good IMO.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 10, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Sween u know u want to burn the Monster of Maryland.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 10, 2008 10:55 AM

This has nothing to do with my fondness for fire and self-indulgent pyromania ... though re: the Monster, I told Friedgen he was chubby ... what a burn ...

Posted by: dcsween | December 10, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: chrislarry"

Let's get this straight :

ChrisLarry - "Truth is an idiot, Stephen Davis didn't have one "pretty good" year, he had the best year ever OMG"

The Truth - "Well here's stats the prove otherwise."

ChrisLarry - "Dude, let's just not talk anymore, we don't like each other, blah blah blah."

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 10, 2008 10:56 AM | Report abuse

EXCEPT THAT ALL YOUR STATS WERE WRONG!

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

beep beep (newslet)

Posted by: CindyBoren | December 10, 2008 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Actually it's 8 years (Danny retired in 2000), and we have one now, thanks to Brett refusing to stay retired!

Posted by: Redcoat | December 10, 2008 10:52 AM

Funny, Redcoat...I actually thought you'd have something to say once I hit 'submit'. Just know I'm pulling for your boys to win the AFC East.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 10, 2008 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Thats why i will rep my idea from yesterday ryp;

2010 uncapped, snyds goes bonkers this offseason by freeing up cap space and waiving his majic wand.... unfront bonuses of extraordinary amounts, keeping nut beching some of those cap hit non playing well players.

Then in 2010, we cut those old guys and any FA that didnt work out from 2009 without the cap hit.

Shrewd, and beautiful at the same time.

Posted by: Zeebs | December 10, 2008 11:01 AM | Report abuse

p-funk......I am pro-transparency in almost every other venue...in pro football its retarded. A team should be broadcasting Mixilplix at all times....

The accountability, fights, explanations should all be done in house and distributed to everyone else via crafted talking points....

Isn't the opposite why we find ourselves where we are now, re:zorn/portis.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 10, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

I'd have to agree with this statement. More and more good teams are becoming stand offish against the media and somewhat shady in their press reports. The Patriots, Giants, Colts immediately come to mind. I'm sure there are others.

Posted by: bigfish761 | December 10, 2008 11:02 AM | Report abuse

nut = but

cue the jokes

Posted by: Zeebs | December 10, 2008 11:02 AM | Report abuse

rc, Zorn needs to talk this through with Portis, nothing needs to be done on the field, but Zman needs to let him know that going forward, he'll handle this better, and he needs to let Portis know the consequences of him ripping the coach in the media again. my .02...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 11:03 AM | Report abuse

There will always be people who want to jettison the best player the team has. Maybe they're closet masochists and actually enjoy things more when the team is lousy (and without Portis, this team would be 2-11 or 3-10 right now, not 7-6).

They're like a kid who steps into quicksand and decides to cheer himself up by eating a few arsenic-laced brownies.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 10, 2008 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Cutting Leigh Torrence isn't worthy of pointing out the flaws in this administration. So the constant harping on it comes off as trivial and stupid.

There are plenty of other players JLC could harp on, like oh say Jason Taylor for a second and a sixth.

Leigh Torrance's was traded for anything. His contract was up this year anyway. And given his interchangeable position in the defense AND special teams and the OBVIOUS upgrade provided by D. Hall (Which JLC fails to address) this move was not considered a bad one.

Not to mention he may be available in the offseason for a resign anyway.

The JT move, while lauded at the time proves that a disciplined FO would have passed on the knee-jerk move, taken the heat but would have kept valuable draft picks.

Thats where the FO has failed. By always believing that they are just one or two guys away from success, they sacrifice future sucess for immediate headlines and hype.

On the flip side, all of the Cult of Leigh posts that start up whenever his name is mentioned are funny as hell.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 10, 2008 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Re:
Posted by: brownwood26 | December 10, 20

Shhh we don't talk about the assassination plot on this blog. We do it on Maskes blog as no one ever reads the comment section.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 10, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

JLC...

Dude - When are you going to learn to just SHUT you little pie hole about certain things... You sit back and play Monday Morning QB and Second Guess so much of what this Coaching Staff, and FO does when it doesn't work out. We know you're one jaded MF'r... You likely had a Boner on Sunday night when your team beat the team you cover and love to hate, but let it go... I've noticed you have finally convinced JReid to come over to the dark side now, b/c he's hating on this FO as much as you lately....

Posted by: EinVB | December 10, 2008 10:13 AM

EinVB - nice try Vinny! Trying to be slick by using a random username! I didn't know you read JLC's blog. You hate him criticizing you even if its warranted. Why do you read it then? Why don't you just go shut up and do your radio show?

Posted by: RHPa | December 10, 2008 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Red this is how I think it has to go down. Zorn pull CP in his office. Tell him he is wrong for not speaking to CP first. Put everything on the table with CP. Then tell him he has to sit him the first couple of plays. I think CP is man enough to accept it.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 10, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

JLC FOREVER! I don't post very much but you can be DAMNED sure that Jason is on point on most things Burgundy & Gold. It's his JOB to dissect relatively minor transactions such as 'Torrence-gate'. I am pretty sure he is giggling about the jokes but way beyond caring about the insults.

Is he emo sometimes? Yes indeed but I prefer a sports writer to have some passion because he/she is covering pro sports which many fans are passionate about. I think everyone who has defended JLC should be praised. He is nothing more than an astute and articulate messenger (reporter). How many reporters/columnists actually make a difference to my love of the Skins? NONE.

My last point: As has been noted by many including JLC, we all know who is responsible for the 75-85 record, the 3 playoff appearances (and I do mean 'appearances'), the six coaches, and 0 championships in the last 10 seasons but I guess we can release/cut/trade the FO.

Posted by: glacier626 | December 10, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

In the past, I have observed that everytime the Redskins have a game played at night (e.g. Monday Night football or Sunday Night) - they have lost the game. All six of their losses were played at night. Could it be something coincidental or some negative factor to consider?

Posted by: gniko1230 | December 10, 2008 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Honey Moon is officially over for ZORN and the lack of points usually points to who is running the offense and that would be Jasen Campbell. I've been saying all along the guy is just to SLOW! You can blame the OL as much as you want but JC has not produced squat. Make a CHANGE!

Posted by: LongTimeSkinsFan | December 10, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

My last point: As has been noted by many including JLC, we all know who is responsible for the 75-85 record, the 3 playoff appearances (and I do mean 'appearances'), the six coaches, and 0 championships in the last 10 seasons but I guess we can release/cut/trade the FO.

Posted by: glacier626 | December 10, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Glacier626, I second that emotion. This is JLC's blog. If you don't like his perspective, I don't know, go read something else?

Seems to me Skins fans drinking the Kool-Aid that says a Super Bowl is just around the corner is part of the problem around here, and has allowed mediocrity to reign for 15+ years. Being a fan doesn't mean you have to stick to the party-line that our front office is functional.

We've taken a 10-6 playoff team and...are headed to 9-7 and out of the playoffs.
The Atlanta Falcons went what? 3-13? last year and turned it around by hiring the right GM and right coach. I hope Zorn turns out to be the longterm solution, but until Beavis and Butthead stop playing fantasy football and turn the reins over...don't get excited.

Posted by: positiveforce | December 10, 2008 12:24 PM | Report abuse

cite all the stats you want, the collapse of the Redskins under Zorn in 2008 is more reminiscient of the Norv disaster in 1996 after 7-1 or the meltdown under Spurrier after the 3-0 start in 2003.

Like those teams, this team has no rudder. There was no leadership being shown from the top and it was readily apparent for anyone to see.

At least with Gibbs you knew there were coaches who were going to work to fix the problems and had some past history to draw from. Indeed the Redskins bounced back in 2005 to 10-6 and went to the divisional round of the playoffs after a road win in Tampa.

Do you really think the Redskins are setting themselves up for double digit win season in 2009 based on what this team is doing now?

Does Zorn seem to have the first clue?

Posted by: leopard09 | December 10, 2008 4:47 PM | Report abuse

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