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Carter opts to attend minicamp to be with teammates, learn new system

After spending time in California while rehabbing from surgery to repair a torn biceps, linebacker/defensive end Andre Carter has returned to the area for the minicamp that begins Friday at Redskins Park.

Carter has not been cleared to participate in team drills, "but I wanted to be here to support my teammates and get going on all the new stuff we're going to be doing," Carter said in a phone interview Monday. "They haven't cleared me to do everything yet, so I'll just have to get a lot of mental reps and work with my position coach [linebackers coach Lou Spanos] on some of the things I'll need to do. But I wanted to be here. I felt I needed to be here."

Carter is coming off the best year of his career as a hand-down end. He was the Redskins' most productive defensive lineman in their 4-3 scheme last season.

But the Redskins are switching to a 3-4 defense, and Carter struggled in his only season as an outside linebacker while with the San Francisco 49ers. Because of Carter's previous limitations in man-to-man coverage, the Redskins are reportedly considering trading Carter, who has a no-trade clause for the length of his contract.

"It's fair to say that this is where I want to be. I want to be right here in Washington," Carter said. "I'm really just focused on finishing my rehab and working to get in the best possible position I can to prepare myself for playing for the Redskins this season."

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By Jason Reid  |  April 13, 2010; 2:18 PM ET
Categories:  3-4 defense , Jason Reid  | Tags: Andre Carter, Lou Spanos Redskins NFL draft  
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Comments

The Minniesotas, San Dieogos and Dallas have used a combined 3>>THREE top draft picks on o-line, since 2005. I hardly call that balance and it's no wonder those teams can't keep their QBs upright, right?

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | April 13, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

The Clevelands and Jacksonvilles will be regular fixtures in the playoffs over the next decade. How do I know this? Because they like drafting O-linemen in the top two rounds so logically they will win ball games in the trenches, where points are scored!

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | April 13, 2010 2:25 PM | Report abuse

"Carter opts to attend minicamp to be with teammates, learn new system..."

This guy says the right things, does the right things: he's the consumate professional.

And a real redskin.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 13, 2010 2:26 PM | Report abuse

draft picks by position (rds 1-5, 2001-2008)
Col 1: Skins
Col 2: avg of Pats, Colts, Steelers, jints

QB 11% -- 05%
OL 07% -- 16%
WR 21% -- 09%
TE 14% -- 08%
RB 07% -- 05%

DL 04% -- 16%
LB 11% -- 15%
DB 25% -- 24%

Tm 00% -- 02%


Skins spent 7% on OL and 4% on DL -- the top teams spent 16% on each. We spent 35% of picks on WR/TE -- twice the % of the top teams.

And yes, we did have significantly fewer picks than other teams, but we're talking about an 8 year sample size, so its a pretty large sample

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 13, 2010 2:24 PM

Please reduce your statistics to only top picks including 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds. Then lets see the difference

The reasoning is because Most idiots here don't think starting O-linemen can be found in the bottom four rounds, otherwise they wouldn't be so upset about not having a 2nd or 3rd rounder this year.

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | April 13, 2010 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Carter knows how not to damage his value.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 13, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Also zcezcest1, show more terrible teams, not just the Redskins and it seems the other terrible teams try to emulate the good teams draft strategy, but we know the true difference between the good teams and bad teams are not quality O-linemen, but ?

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | April 13, 2010 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Andre is a class act, and it would behoove the new regime to find a place for him to be a big part of the new defense. He's a team player who is going to give you all that he has.

Posted by: Jason10 | April 13, 2010 2:33 PM | Report abuse

as I revieweed the broncos game over the weekend I was reminded, not only have we not used a 1st on O line since '01, we also haven't used a 2nd

(insert the look)

really?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | April 13, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

The have never said the are going to a straight 3-4 defense, they said it would be a hybrid.

AC can rush as a hand down LB in a 3-4 with no coverage responsabilities, how often does Terell Suggs cover someone not very often.

If you want the rush LB to have coverage you can sub for AC it's very simple.

Where has it been reported that the Skins are trying to trade AC, has anyone heard this from Shanny or Allen?

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 13, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Wow, attending minicamp to learn the new system and be with your team. I wonder if this will catch on?

Posted by: iH8dallas | April 13, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Interesting way you posed that question. Neglecting "drafting" o-linemen.

According to you, they've combined for 9 draft picks in the first three rounds.

But Dallas set a contract record for a guard by signing Leonard Davis in free agency.

Minnesota beat that record by signing Steve Hutchinson (giving up 1st and 3rd round draft picks in the process).

The Jets have 2 first round draft picks on their line (Ferguson and Mangold), broke the bank for all-pro guard Allen Faneca, and signed former all-pro Damien Woody to man the right side.

And as for when the QBs will suffer the consequences of their "neglect" along the o-line? Ask Bill Polian. He'll tell you it happened during the Super Bowl.

Posted by: psps23 | April 13, 2010 2:30 PM

Yess psps23--->the draft is not the only way to build an offensive line, ding ding ding ding ding. That concept is confusing here on RI.

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | April 13, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

@skinshaveaGM:

You should do some research on the Eagles draft history in the Reid era. They surprisingly have spent far more draft picks (mostly higher) on WR than on OL or DL.

Posted by: Jason10 | April 13, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

This guy says the right things, does the right things: he's the consumate professional.

And a real redskin.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 13, 2010 2:26 PM

+1. Never heard this guy complain. I'm pretty much the opposite of a bible-thumper, but the God-living guys usually do it right.

Posted by: Rypien11 | April 13, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

FIRST to mention Albert Haynesworth, or any other incarnation of his name.

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | April 13, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

"This guy says the right things, does the right things: he's the consumate professional."

Yeah, you'd think they can give him a year and see how it works at least.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | April 13, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

zeke, on your question from the last thread, yes, I think I could. Let's give it a try.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | April 13, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

"Please reduce your statistics to only top picks including 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds. Then lets see the difference

Posted by: skinshaveaGM"

Please encompass your evaluation to include all acquisitions of linemen, not just draft selections.

Then come back and argue that Minnesota (who gave up a 1st and 3rd round pick for all-pro guard Steve Hutchinson), Dallas (who set a record for signing pro-bowl guard Leonard Davis), and the New York Jets (who spent two first round picks on a tackle and center, acquired an all-pro guard, and signed a former pro-bowl RT to play along their line) have "neglected" their offensive lines.

Posted by: psps23 | April 13, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

"...but we know the true difference between the good teams and bad teams are not quality O-linemen, but ?"

The big difference?: quarterbacks who make excellent decisions.

Both Aaron Rodgers and Big Ben prove that you can get hit, and still make plays.

There's a Sports Ilustrated from last summer article where several of today's top quarterbacks talk about how they are coached to make plays, despite the hits and pressures.

The offensive line doesn't have to be great, just good enough to allow the above average quarterback to play his game.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 13, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

@skinshaveaGM:

You should do some research on the Eagles draft history in the Reid era. They surprisingly have spent far more draft picks (mostly higher) on WR than on OL or DL.

Posted by: Jason10 | April 13, 2010 2:36 PM

Actually I have. Did you know that only 2/5 of the Eagles starting O-line this year have been drafted by the team.

Oh and the Eagles have had just as much injury to their o-line as the redskins have had the past 3 seasons.

Unbiased research will prove that the difference between good teams and bad teams are not quality O-linemen.

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | April 13, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

zest I think you've made a valid point don'tlet these people who are in denial affect it

Posted by: pabrian2003 | April 13, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

How long had it been until last year that Dallas won a playoff game?

How man SB has Minn. won with there great o-Line.

There are other factors to wiining a SB a great o-line does not do it alone.

And building a great o-line through the draft is not the onl way to do it.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 13, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Please reduce your statistics to only top picks including 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds. Then lets see the difference

The reasoning is because Most idiots here don't think starting O-linemen can be found in the bottom four rounds, otherwise they wouldn't be so upset about not having a 2nd or 3rd rounder this year.

Posted by: skinshaveaGM

Took a while to do this, not going to redo it with a different cut. I did something a week or so back looking at where the Pro Bowl OL got drafted. Overwhelmingly, the tackles came from rds 1&2. Guards and C were more spread out, including a number that were undrafted.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 13, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

"Yess psps23--->the draft is not the only way to build an offensive line, ding ding ding ding ding. That concept is confusing here on RI."

I think most people would agree that acquiring linemen has been the issue, not just drafting. If Joe Thomas was available, I don't think you'd see a single complaint should we have pursue him.

However, those types of players come to the free agent market few and far between, so the next best option is through the draft.

Posted by: psps23 | April 13, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse


apparently the "less-than" sign (opposite of >) cannot be posted :(

Posted by: skinshaveaGM


"Some men see things as they are and ask: "Why"? I dream things that never were and ask 'Why not'?" - George Bernard Shaw

Posted by: RedDMV | April 13, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 13, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

the guy is tthe consumate pro, led us in sacks, is in "primo conditioning", plays every snap, so...

let's start the trade talk as soon as there is a whisper of a 3-4. we are great fans

p.s. what's a 3-4

Posted by: pabrian2003 | April 13, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: psps23 | April 13, 2010 2:41 PM

The jets are your best argument, but historically the team with the best defense in the league does well in the post season, regardless of how poor the offense is. The jetz barely got into the post season.

and leonard davis was considered a bust until tony romos play making ability made him look like a pro bowler. dummy

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | April 13, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

CARTER - a genuine REDSKIN and great FA pickup.

HAYNESWORTH - a chiseling FA bum who only cares about himself.

Posted by: glawrence007 | April 13, 2010 2:47 PM | Report abuse

"Some men see things as they are and ask: "Why"? I dream things that never were and ask 'Why not'?" - Vincenzo Cerrato-on O line draft strategy

Posted by: pabrian2003 | April 13, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Aw, whada fack?

Posted by: RedDMV | April 13, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

I'm tired of speculating on draft and trade scenarios. I just want this team to win, make the playoffs, be competitive and at least make this season fun to watch.

The Zorn era was like being waterboarded for three hours a day, once a week for 4 months.

At least I have the feeling this team will be offensively much better. The defense I do not ever worry about.

HTTR

Season prediction- 11-5, wildcard(5th seed)
CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!!!

It's a pipedream, I know, but if you're a true fan you go into every season hoping this happens.

Posted by: iH8dallas | April 13, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

zest I think you've made a valid point don'tlet these people who are in denial affect it

Posted by: pabrian2003

just looking at what the best teams do -- the numbers speak for themselves.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 13, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

The lady on the right... is that Kristi Yamaguchi?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | April 13, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

OKUNG, OKUNG, OKUNG.

Posted by: glawrence007 | April 13, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

just looking at what the best teams do -- the numbers speak for themselves.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 13, 2010 2:52 PM |

The best teams might do it that way and now that this team is under proper management they might do it that way to. I have an idea why don't we wait until the season starts to see if that happens.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 13, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

"Unbiased research will prove that the difference between good teams and bad teams are not quality O-linemen."

Interesting.

By what unbiased measure are you judging "quality o-linemen"?

I'd say a good measure of quality o-linemen would be the number of sacks given up on the season. I believe that's a solid indicator of pass-protection. So let's see.

Most sacks given up in the NFL in 2009:

1 Green Bay Packers
2 Pittsburgh Steelers
3 Oakland Raiders
4 Buffalo Bills
5 Washington Redskins
6 Kansas City Chiefs
7 St. Louis Rams
8 Jacksonville Jaguars
9 Detroit Lions
10 Seattle Seahawks


Total: One playoff team, zero playoff wins. Eight teams picking in the top 10 of the draft.

Least sacks given up in 2009 (in reverse order -- 32 is the least):

23 New York Jets
24 Cincinnati Bengals
25 Atlanta Falcons
26 Arizona Cardinals
27 San Diego Chargers
28 Houston Texans
29 New Orleans Saints
30 New England Patriots
31 Tennessee Titans
32 Indianapolis Colts

Total: 7 playoff teams, 3 conference title contestants, 1 Super bowl runner-up, 1 Super Bowl winner, #1 offense in the league, zero top 10 drafters.

Now again, unbiasedly, how are good teams and bad teams not separated by quality o-linemen?

Posted by: psps23 | April 13, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Carter for president.. oh, wait... Andre Carter for president!

Posted by: skinsfanintampa | April 13, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Carter is a pro's pro BUT he was a scrub until the fat, lazy Haynesworth showed up. Me thinks that if Carter were as talented as, say... Jared Allen, he would have had a lot more than 11 sacks last year.

Posted by: coparker5 | April 13, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Why can't we just run a 4 - 3 front and blitz more?

Posted by: BrooklynSkins | April 13, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

lol @ zcezcest1

He won't show the draft stats for other terrible teams. Unbiased research will prove that the difference between good teams and terrible teams is not the 0-line. Zcest1 thinks that all terrible teams neglect 0-line. That's why the Washingtons have been so bad Zcest1, right? because they neglect their 0line?

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | April 13, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

What is a "genuine" Redskin?

Is it along the lines of a "core" Redskin?

You dudes are so gullible. The only thing "genuine" about Andre Carter or anyone else playing for the Redskins, is their "genuine" bank accounts.

Please, if Andre Carter was a free agent and the 'Skins offered him 20 mil over 4 yrs. and another team offered him 26 mil over that same span, who do you think ol' Andre "Genuine" Carter will play for?


Some of you have this misconception that the players on your favorite teams care about the franchise as much as John "Fanatic".

Some of these players could give a damn.

Posted by: RedDMV | April 13, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

"Andre is a class act, and it would behoove the new regime to find a place for him to be a big part of the new defense. He's a team player who is going to give you all that he has."

Amen! I hope the WaPo reporting is wrong and that we're not dealing with yet another case of new coaches trying to impose a system (in this case 3-4) regardless of how well it matches the personnel, especially when, in the case of our defense, we have some pretty damn good personnel (like Carter).

I mean, to me the essence of brilliance is not slavish devotion to some kind of system, but being able to adapt your system to the situation (both personnel and division opponents). Gibbs 1.0 is a good example of that, having come from Air Corryel but then creating an innovative, dominant running scheme.

Anyway, I hope the reports are wrong (which wouldn't surprise me in the least) and that our new coaches are smarter than that.

Posted by: gringoinmiami | April 13, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

So....Carter was NOT attending offseason workouts.....Wow...just Wow...

Let's just pick and choose who to villify...If you speak to me, your not on my list.....If you don't, I will hate...WOW....

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 13, 2010 3:02 PM | Report abuse

glenlawrence

"HAYNESWORTH - a chiseling FA bum who only cares about himself."


Ouch!!!!

I'd say Haynesworth is fat, but with 21 mil just added to his bank account, he's hardly a bum.

He's more like a tramp with tax issues we'd all kill for.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 13, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: NateinthePDX | April 13, 2010 2:54 PM

That's who I thought it was. I figured you would guess the one on the left for that very reason.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | April 13, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Funny timeline article on footballoutsiders.com about McNabb's love-hate relationship with the fans in Philly. "Yes, there was a little love too," the article insists.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 13, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

That's why the Washingtons have been so bad Zcest1, right? because they neglect their 0line?

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | April 13, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

The Washingtons?

Like, George and Martha?

Posted by: Original_etrod | April 13, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Love AC. He played the most snaps of all DL on the Skins last year, yet a part-time DE had as many sacks as AC last year for the Skins.

Let's not make AC into more than he is. And lets not forget how much of an impact AH had in his sack total.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 13, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Now again, unbiasedly, how are good teams and bad teams not separated by quality o-linemen?

Posted by: psps23 | April 13, 2010 2:57 PM

oi vey.

Sack totals don't measure who has the best O-line dummy. Why don't you show the top ten passing teams and the worst ten passing teams?

Here's the point(please don't miss it)
Most Idiots here claim the good teams draft Offensive linemen. My counter is the terrible teams draft Offensive linemen also. So try and guess what the difference is between the good teams and terrible teams. (hint: it's not offensive linemen) dummy

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | April 13, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

psp,

I'm not arguing with you but your list fails to detail what else helped those offensive lines.

QB's quick release, number of pass attempts. qB's ability to move in the pocket and make plays.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 13, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse

lol @ zcezcest1

He won't show the draft stats for other terrible teams. Unbiased research will prove that the difference between good teams and terrible teams is not the 0-line. Zcest1 thinks that all terrible teams neglect 0-line. That's why the Washingtons have been so bad Zcest1, right? because they neglect their 0line?

Posted by: skinshaveaGM

you wanna do the work? go ahead.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/

Me, I'd rather take my cues from the teams that are succeeding. Not as interested in the teams that aren't.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 13, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse

The lady on the right... is that Kristi Yamaguchi?

Posted by: NateinthePDX

yup, last Thursday, before a Sharks game -- her hubby does analysis for them.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 13, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

psps23

Least sacks given up in 2009 (in reverse order -- 32 is the least):

23 New York Jets
24 Cincinnati Bengals
25 Atlanta Falcons
26 Arizona Cardinals
27 San Diego Chargers
28 Houston Texans
29 New Orleans Saints
30 New England Patriots
31 Tennessee Titans
32 Indianapolis Colts

You are also aware these teams have quality, good decision-making quarterbacks, and solid running games.

I agree with your thesis, but I'm also just saying they are more completely structured than the teams listed at the top.

Again: you're right.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 13, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

"Skins spent 7% on OL and 4% on DL -- the top teams spent 16% on each. We spent 35% of picks on WR/TE -- twice the % of the top teams."

But where's the correlation with outcome? If you're saying the reason the top teams succeed is because of the percent of draft picks they spend on linemen, seems to me you must first demonstrate that:
1) those linemen are becoming important parts of the team
2) the Skins aren't making up the difference through veteran free agents like Derrick Dockery or Albert Haynesworth
3) the overall statistical performance of those teams' line play is clearly above average for the NFL.


Posted by: Samson151 | April 13, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Otherwise it seems to me that you could be falling victim to 'winner's bias', or the assumption that a winning team is naturally superior in all phases to a team that wins less often.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 13, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Anyway, I hope the reports are wrong (which wouldn't surprise me in the least) and that our new coaches are smarter than that.

Posted by: gringoinmiami | April 13, 2010 3:01 PM |

Your right god forbid new coaches come in and make changes on a 4-12 team, what would they do that for all we need is two new O-Linemen and we are SB champs.

The team is changing under new management it's what everybody wanted, so live with it. The defense will be fine no matter if the run a 4-3 or a 3-4 or some kind of hybrid.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 13, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Let's just pick and choose who to villify...If you speak to me, your not on my list.....If you don't, I will hate...WOW....

Posted by: 4thFloor


Why so shocked? This is how it's done in the media.

For some reason you continue to hold Jason Reid to this uber high standard when dude has time and time again showed you exactly what he is.

I mean, c'mon. This is the same dude that said he forgot to edit his Twitter account containing inaccurate information on Haynesworth.

Puts that excuse right up there with "My dog ate my homework" or my favorite as a youngin' "I forgot".

Posted by: RedDMV | April 13, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Me, I'd rather take my cues from the teams that are succeeding. Not as interested in the teams that aren't.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 13, 2010 3:06 PM

Oh, okay the teams that are succeeding have good Qbs, also.

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | April 13, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Funny, but isn't he concerned about where he might be be playing and what role he might have in the new system?

Isn't he worried about whether its a 4-3, 3-4 or a combination?

Nah, I guess he figures that's for the coaches to figure out.

The man just wants to play and help out where he can.

And I suspect with that sort of attitude, they'll find lots of ways for him to help out and make it happen.

Go figure.

AH92 could learn a few things from Carter... that is, if he weren't out there acting like such a selfish jerk.

Rumor is, even if AH92 agrees to show for the mandatory formations, he's demanding for his own lunch table -- and chef -- and trainers -- and masseusse -- etc., etc.


Posted by: Vic1 | April 13, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Some good teams have good Olines.

Some bad teams have good Olines.

Some bad teams have bad Olines.

Some good teams have bad Olines.

Did I miss any permutations? I'm sure we'll find examples of all of the above.

But why do we need to get metaphysical about the Oline discussion???

The bottom line is that WE (the Skins) had an obviously crappy Oline last year and we all saw it directly contribute to losing; so, WE (the Skins) need some better Olinemen (specifically tackles) if we want to improve.

Can't that end the discussion??

Posted by: p1funk | April 13, 2010 3:14 PM | Report abuse

"Carter opts to attend minicamp to be with teammates, learn new system..."


This guy says the right things, does the right things: he's the consumate professional.

And a real redskin

What's a real Redskin?

Posted by: rlomax67 | April 13, 2010 3:14 PM | Report abuse

One common mistake that pundits make is to look at the draft as the only way to add talent to a team, ignoring trades and free agency.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 13, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

the offseason is waaaaaay too long, haha.

9 days and counting....

Posted by: terrapin3 | April 13, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

just looking at what the best teams do -- the numbers speak for themselves.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 13, 2010 2:52 PM |

The best teams might do it that way and now that this team is under proper management they might do it that way to. I have an idea why don't we wait until the season starts to see if that happens.

Posted by: Flounder21

I looked at the draft history of the 2 degrees (BA and MS). With the caveat of its hard to know how much influence each guy had on the draft (especially Allen), here it is:

Allen, with Tampa and Oakland (rds 1-5)

Pos, Allen, Benchmark Group
DB, 16%, 24%
DL, 22%, 16%
OL, 21%, 16%
LB, 11%, 15%
QB, 3%, 5%
RB, 6%, 5%
TE, 6%, 8%
WR, 11%, 9%
ST, 3%, 2%

Shanahan 2000-2008 (rds 1-5)

Pos, Shan, Benchmark Group
QB 02% -- 05%
OL 16% -- 16%
WR 18% -- 09%
TE 02% -- 08%
RB 10% -- 05%

DL 23% -- 16%
LB 06% -- 15%
DB 21% -- 24%

Tm 02% -- 02%

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 13, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

glenlawrence

"HAYNESWORTH - a chiseling FA bum who only cares about himself."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++


As long as he continues to dominate Olinemen and his teammates are getting double-digit sacks around him, my response is WHO CARES?

Posted by: p1funk | April 13, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

But if there were no discussion, what purpose would this place serve?

Posted by: RedDMV | April 13, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

rlomax67, I'm still waiting on an answer to that question...

Posted by: RedDMV | April 13, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

What's a real Redskin?

Posted by: rlomax67 | April 13, 2010 3:14 PM |

I was a real redskin after I got burnt this weekend, now that it's peeling i'm going back to my boring whiteskin self.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 13, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Carter is a pro's pro BUT he was a scrub until the fat, lazy Haynesworth showed up. Me thinks that if Carter were as talented as, say... Jared Allen, he would have had a lot more than 11 sacks last year.

Posted by: coparker5 | April 13, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse


My thoughts exactly.

Let's go ahead and trade the fat lazy AH, and then watch the righteous Andre Carter revert to having a 3.5 sack season.

Lots of good that will do the Skins...but at least he shows up in the offseason, eh?

Posted by: p1funk | April 13, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

For instance, if a team adds Dockery and Haynesworth, isn't that the equivalent of spending two high draft choices on the line? Isn't adding two players like the nose tackles signed by Bruce Allen roughly comparable to drafting, say, a fourth rounder and a seventh rounder at NT? The difference being that you know a lot more about them than you do about any draftee.

We're talking talent here, not money.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 13, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

"What's a real Redskin?"


A guy in a burgandy n gold uniform who displays heart and determination.

He kinda looks like James Thrash.

Only, he has talent.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 13, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

afraid to find that if the terrible teams drafted like the good teams, it might actually prove that some other position might be more important

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | April 13, 2010 3:20 PM | Report abuse

But if there were no discussion, what purpose would this place serve?

Posted by: RedDMV | April 13, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse


C'mon Red, you know the answer to that.

The primary purpose of this forum is to curse white people...

Posted by: p1funk | April 13, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Most Idiots here claim the good teams draft Offensive linemen. My counter is the terrible teams draft Offensive linemen also. So try and guess what the difference is between the good teams and terrible teams. (hint: it's not offensive linemen) dummy

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | April 13, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse
----------------------------

It's organizational stability. It probably wouldn't matter if we drafted an OT the last 10 drafts, without a solid drafting methodology and/or team principles, we would still have the last decade of swapping offensive and defensive philosophies like bodily fluids at Woodstock.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | April 13, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Carter is not attending off season workouts because he is rehabbing a torn bicep. If he were not in rehab I suspect his attendance would be 100%, just like his effort on the field.

Posted by: wireman65 | April 13, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

"Me, I'd rather take my cues from the teams that are succeeding. Not as interested in the teams that aren't.
Posted by: zcezcest1"

Well, then you're definitely vulnerable to winner's bias.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 13, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

"Here's the point(please don't miss it)
Most Idiots here claim the good teams draft Offensive linemen. My counter is the terrible teams draft Offensive linemen also. So try and guess what the difference is between the good teams and terrible teams. (hint: it's not offensive linemen) dummy

Posted by: skinshaveaGM"

Hey dummy. Drafting offensive linemen doesn't equal quality offensive linemen. Teams whiff on linemen too.

Guess what?

Bad teams draft Quarterbacks, Wide Receivers, Running Backs, Defensive Linemen, Secondary players, and Linebackers also.

So I guess what I'm saying is (and please don't miss it), that your argument really doesn't have a point.

Except the argument that good teams don't have good offensive linemen, while bad ones -- apparently -- do. Because that's just plain moronic.

Posted by: psps23 | April 13, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Real Redskin? To me, it’s a guy who…

Works hard, practices hard, plays hard… respects teammates, coaches, and opponents alike…doesn’t make excuses… wins and loses with class…understands and respects the history and glory of the Redskin franchise…WANTS to be a Redskin…and above all, understands the meaning of what Redskin football means to those who support it.

Posted by: Rypien11 | April 13, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

"Skins spent 7% on OL and 4% on DL -- the top teams spent 16% on each. We spent 35% of picks on WR/TE -- twice the % of the top teams."

But where's the correlation with outcome? If you're saying the reason the top teams succeed is because of the percent of draft picks they spend on linemen, seems to me you must first demonstrate that:
1) those linemen are becoming important parts of the team
2) the Skins aren't making up the difference through veteran free agents like Derrick Dockery or Albert Haynesworth
3) the overall statistical performance of those teams' line play is clearly above average for the NFL.


Posted by: Samson151

My interpretation is that good teams draft in a similar manner. If you look at the numbers, its actually in reasonably close proportion to the number of key players a team has.

7 of 22 starters are DL and LB, for example -- 32%. What % of picks are DL or LB on these top teams? 31%.

People can draw their own conclusions, but its never a bad idea to look at what the most successful teams do with their picks.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 13, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

"Me, I'd rather take my cues from the teams that are succeeding. Not as interested in the teams that aren't.
Posted by: zcezcest1"


Most of the teams that are succeeding have very good QB's, or QB's they just drafted very high.

So we took a que from the better teams get a good QB. Now we will take another when we draft a LT at 4 or move back from 4 and draft a few T's.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 13, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Let's see, for 2010 we have new coaches, quasi-GM, quarterback, running backs, O linemen (one hopes), defensive scheme and one highly paid, disgruntled and possibly overweight, out of shape D tackle. Yup, should be smooth sailing to the playoffs.

Posted by: Natmeister | April 13, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

"Me, I'd rather take my cues from the teams that are succeeding. Not as interested in the teams that aren't.
Posted by: zcezcest1"

Well, then you're definitely vulnerable to winner's bias.

Posted by: Samson151

Then why am I up here posting on ths board?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 13, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Real Redskin? To me, it’s a guy who…

Works hard, practices hard, plays hard… respects teammates, coaches, and opponents alike…doesn’t make excuses… wins and loses with class…understands and respects the history and glory of the Redskin franchise…WANTS to be a Redskin…and above all, understands the meaning of what Redskin football means to those who support it.

Posted by: Rypien11 | April 13, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse


Your definition of a "Real Redskin" would exclude John riggins.

Not to be a cynic, but to me a "Real Redskin" seems like a propaganda phrase put out there by Joe Gibbs.

If they win for us, we'll all be fired up and we will dub them "Real Redskins".

Posted by: p1funk | April 13, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Reds - The sounds like reverse excusicism.....'He does it all the time so it's ok'....CTF on with that B.S......

And yes MoFos....I made up another word....

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 13, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

from the Freakonomics blog...

"Winner’s bias is perhaps especially pronounced in sport. The behaviors of winners are remembered and dissected far more thoroughly than those of losers, and given greater weight, even if the outcome was decided by a tiny margin."


Posted by: Samson151 | April 13, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

p1funk,

co-sign & co-sign.

Posted by: RedDMV | April 13, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

"Then why am I up here posting on ths board? Posted by: zcezcest1"

It's a slow day at the nursing home?

Posted by: Samson151 | April 13, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

As long as he continues to dominate Olinemen and his teammates are getting double-digit sacks around him, my response is WHO CARES?

Posted by: p1funk | April 13, 2010 3:16 PM |
Here, fn here.

Posted by: wireman65 | April 13, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

This is funny!

Cerrato joins ESPN draft team
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on April 13, 2010 3:30 PM ET
We should read the P.R. statements that ESPN sends more closely, because it took Dan Steinberg of DC Sports Bog to notice a glorious item towards the bottom of Tuesday's release.

Former Redskins Executive VP and noted actor Vinny Cerrato will provide analysis for ESPN Radio during the draft alongside John Clayton and host Freddie Coleman.

"Cerrato is thrilled to be part of a draft in which he didn't trade away all his good picks for overpaid veterans," we wish someone said.

Charles Rogers will also provide on-site financial advice for incoming rookies

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 13, 2010 3:36 PM | Report abuse

from the Freakonomics blog...

"Winner’s bias is perhaps especially pronounced in sport. The behaviors of winners are remembered and dissected far more thoroughly than those of losers, and given greater weight, even if the outcome was decided by a tiny margin."


Posted by: Samson151

'cept my numbers weren't looking at a small sample. The top 4 teams, all consistent winners, over 9 years worth of drafts. Nothing 'tiny' about this.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 13, 2010 3:36 PM | Report abuse

It's organizational stability. It probably wouldn't matter if we drafted an OT the last 10 drafts, without a solid drafting methodology and/or team principles, we would still have the last decade of swapping offensive and defensive philosophies like bodily fluids at Woodstock.

Posted by: mattsoundworld

Co-sign.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 13, 2010 3:36 PM | Report abuse

"I'm not arguing with you but your list fails to detail what else helped those offensive lines.

Posted by: Flounder21"

Of course. But it still centers around the what the offensive line is largely responsible for, and that's protecting the QB.

Posted by: psps23 | April 13, 2010 3:37 PM | Report abuse

At first I thought Bean had hacked PFT but its true:

Cerrato joins ESPN draft team
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on April 13, 2010 3:30 PM ET
We should read the P.R. statements that ESPN sends more closely, because it took Dan Steinberg of DC Sports Bog to notice a glorious item towards the bottom of Tuesday's release.

Former Redskins Executive VP and noted actor Vinny Cerrato will provide analysis for ESPN Radio during the draft alongside John Clayton and host Freddie Coleman.

"Cerrato is thrilled to be part of a draft in which he didn't trade away all his good picks for overpaid veterans," we wish someone said.

Charles Rogers will also provide on-site financial advice for incoming rookies.

Posted by: zjfr2 | April 13, 2010 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Took a while to do this, not going to redo it with a different cut. I did something a week or so back looking at where the Pro Bowl OL got drafted. Overwhelmingly, the tackles came from rds 1&2. Guards and C were more spread out, including a number that were undrafted.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 13, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

I looked at the same thing. OT's were mainly first round, but there were a few in the first half of the second round.

Posted by: frediefritz | April 13, 2010 3:38 PM | Report abuse

"Yup, should be smooth sailing to the playoffs."

Most certainly.

Our early April performance alone is enough to suggest we'll get the offseason playoff bye, rest, and be ready for more May speculation.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 13, 2010 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Why can't we just run a 4 - 3 front and blitz more?
Brooklynnskins

Amen.
We seem to be giving up too much to make this switch in 2010. We can work on going to the 3-4 next year can't we? Our defense was not the problem in 2009 and is designed around the 4-3; our execution of the 4-3 will be better with the current coaches in 2010 without a doubt.
Why make all the moves you want in one year instead of doing them gradually in a more efficient manner?

Posted by: monkeymayonaise | April 13, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

fwiw, not a big fan of the freakonomics guys -- though the point about simplifying analsyis too much is valid.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 13, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | April 13, 2010 3:29 PM

Things around here are a bit different now than in Riggo's day. In our current era of almost two decades of bad Redskins football, that is what it means to me now.

Riggo may have drank and missed a meeting or two, but the guy busted his hump game after game and did the dirty work with no excuses.

But Riggo was a true Redskin no doubt...to me he's a guy would have been the same as a Super Bowl winner or on an 0-16 team.

Plus, we can all agree that Riggo was a unique one... that's why Joe put up with him like he did.

Posted by: Rypien11 | April 13, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Beep Beep

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 13, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

I have to agree with some of the post. The 'Skins never said it would be a straight 3-4 D. In fact, most teams use a hybrid system within the 3-4 making it more evasive for the QB to read. That would seem to be the most logical thing that would be happening.

Next is the idea that an O-Line has to be drafted in order to be good. Granted, many good O-Linemen are drafted in the top 100, but that's not all of the good linemen in the draft. Many hidden gems can be found in the later rounds with the help of a good scouting staff an a firm grasp of what a team is trying to do and if they player that are looking at has the intangibles to learn the system, put in the work to get better and get it done.

Mnay Skins fans forget that some of those Hogs from back in the day were not drafted. They just had the desire and determination to get better and become all-stars. The same mind set is present today when you look at the NFL, where guys like Wes Welker, who is all of 5'9" or something like that become one of the most dominate slot receivers in the game. I don't think guys were knocking down the door at Texas Tech to sign a 5'9" guy to their team when all they could think about was the likes of Moss, Owens and Irvin.

Remember, Shanny runs a zone blocking system, it does not require a big linemen to get the job done, but it does require a guy to think and know what his assignment is.

Their as linemen that will not get drafted, heck their are guys in D-II that won't see a scout at all, but don't think they can't play. They are there and they will get on somewhere. I just hope the Skins pick up a few.

As the saying goes:

THERE IS MORE THAN ONE WAY TO SKIN A CAT!

Posted by: ajb1094 | April 13, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

"Winner’s bias is perhaps especially pronounced in sport. The behaviors of winners are remembered and dissected far more thoroughly than those of losers, and given greater weight, even if the outcome was decided by a tiny margin."


Posted by: Samson151

Thanck You Samson151. That's why i responded to Zcest with this:

afraid to find that if the terrible teams drafted like the good teams, it might actually prove that some other position might be more important

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | April 13, 2010 3:20 PM

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | April 13, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Took a while to do this, not going to redo it with a different cut. I did something a week or so back looking at where the Pro Bowl OL got drafted. Overwhelmingly, the tackles came from rds 1&2. Guards and C were more spread out, including a number that were undrafted.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 13, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

I looked at the same thing. OT's were mainly first round, but there were a few in the first half of the second round.

Posted by: frediefritz

trying to find that post I did ...

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 13, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Took a while to do this, not going to redo it with a different cut. I did something a week or so back looking at where the Pro Bowl OL got drafted. Overwhelmingly, the tackles came from rds 1&2. Guards and C were more spread out, including a number that were undrafted.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 13, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

I looked at the same thing. OT's were mainly first round, but there were a few in the first half of the second round.

Posted by: frediefritz | April 13, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

The Haynesworth situation is far from unsalvageable. He's a great if disgruntled player, like that never happens. But the defense NEEDS him , we aren't going to find another of his caliber, unless we sacrifice Okung for Suh. Why can't he switch to DE, like Reggie White did?? Haynesworth ties up half the opposing teams line when he's in there, he's far too valuable here. We need some good people skills from management right about now in dealing with him..Maybe a free batch of Nutri-System..

Posted by: frak | April 13, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Beep Beep

Posted by: Flounder21

What does this mean??? Your blackberry is telling you that something new has appeared on the site?

Posted by: monkeymayonaise | April 13, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

The Skins won Super Bowls with 3 different QBs, but basically the same O line, so those that neglect this fact should go back to training camp.

Posted by: Ireland2 | April 13, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

4th, call him out as much as you like, hell, I agree with you.

But you probably shouldn't hold him to the same standards as a responsible journalist because he's shown that he isn't.

Jason Reid is like the special needs kid that pisses on himself unintentionally. Yeah, you wish that he wouldn't do that, but what are you gonna do? Beat his ass every time he does it. After awhile you just chalk it up to ignorance and that's that.

Posted by: RedDMV | April 13, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

beeps

Posted by: Oogalaboogala | April 13, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Cerrato on ESPN draft team....That's awesome

Posted by: iH8dallas | April 13, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Haynesworth is too good a player to let go. He absolutely stuffed 4th and short and 3rd and short plays last year. Too bad the offense goes three and out, but that should be fixed this year. Maake will be at the nose anyway, Haynesworth on the end, opposite Daniels or Jarmon.

This is being read into way too much. Albert is the man.Orakpo and Carter don't exist last year if not for him.

Posted by: iH8dallas | April 13, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

thats an important point about winners bias. Its as important to understand failure as it is to understand success.

Posted by: alex35332 | April 13, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

#004 - RUSSELL OKUNG - OT
#007 - DAN WILLIAMS - NT for AH to CLEV
#103 - JAMAR CHANEY - ILB
#135 - SELVISH CAPERS - OT
#211 - ADRIAN TRACY - OLB

POST DRAFT:

TERRELL WHITHEAD - FS, MATT McCRACKEN - OG, JARVIS GEATHERS OLB, ARTHUR MOATS - OLB, LaMARCUS COKER - RB, BEN BURNEY - CB

Posted by: glawrence007 | April 13, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Andre is a class act, and it would behoove the new regime to find a place for him to be a big part of the new defense. He's a team player who is going to give you all that he has.

Posted by: Jason10 |

He flopped as a OLB...wonder if he's been tried inside in a 3-4. Threat to rush on any down with Fletcher covering deep zone.

Agree Jason, he's always been a class act. Legs like a Flamingo and barely 250 soaking wet, he can't be an anchor DE in a 3-4

ILB may be the best spot for him.

Posted by: TheCork | April 13, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

So dumb. A wiz fan is up here opining on the 'Skins? Junior, you have no credibility anywhere posting as a "wiz fan."

But, to your lame point, the 'Skins have improved substantially by adding a coaching staff. If Shanahan had been coach last year the Redskins would have gone 10-6 even with the same roster and same line that Zorn coached.

Specifically, Shanahan would have won these games that Zorn lost: Detroit, Carolina, Dallas, New Orleans, San Diego, and Kansas City.

McNabb injury prone? He's missed four games in the last three years.

Now, how about the Wizards? Who can you get to coach Ernie's roster and make the playoffs?

Posted by: League-Source | April 13, 2010 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Actually LS, your post is pretty dumb. You have no idea if Shanahan would have won any of those close games.

If anything, Shanahan is now known for his spectacular late season collapses (is the word choking?) In 2006 Shanahan lost 5 of last 7 games missed playoffs. In 2007 Broncos lost 4 of final six and missed playoffs. In 2008 Shanahan's Broncos lost final three and missed playoffs. His team, his players, his losses. That's why he got fired.

Posted by: Pepper5 | April 13, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

It's organizational stability. It probably wouldn't matter if we drafted an OT the last 10 drafts, without a solid drafting methodology and/or team principles, we would still have the last decade of swapping offensive and defensive philosophies like bodily fluids at Woodstock.

Posted by: mattsoundworld

Not exactly...one could argue that the Texans, among others, have been organizationally stable...just not very good. Not sure how may lineman they drafted over the years. Pick a winning NFL philosophy (meaning not Spurrier), be able to pick talent (draft or FA) for that philosophy better than most, have an owner willing to pay, and hope to get lucky.

Posted by: amaranthpa | April 13, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

You keep a great guy lke Andre Carter anytime you can. You dump the 2 pinheads Portis and Haynesworth whenever someone is willing to absorb the problems their selfish outlloks cause.

Posted by: jjredskins | April 13, 2010 4:47 PM | Report abuse

You keep a great guy lke Andre Carter anytime you can. You dump the 2 pinheads Portis and Haynesworth whenever someone is willing to absorb the problems their selfish outlooks cause.

Posted by: jjredskins | April 13, 2010 4:47 PM | Report abuse

You keep a great guy lke Andre Carter anytime you can. You dump the 2 pinheads Portis and Haynesworth whenever someone is willing to absorb the problems their selfish outlooks cause.

Posted by: jjredskins | April 13, 2010 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Bravo Carter. I wanted to trade him before reading this because he really doesnt seem to be a great fit to the system, but you don't trade a guy as talented as him who wants to be here and wants to work. Keep the man.

Posted by: poconnor | April 13, 2010 7:05 PM | Report abuse

Now again, unbiasedly, how are good teams and bad teams not separated by quality o-linemen?

Posted by: psps23 | April 13, 2010 2:57 PM


@psps23, with all due respect, don't you think a lot of that has to do with quality and/or style of quarterbacking? All of the high sack teams either had poor QB's or decent-to-good QB's (Rodgers, Big Ben and yes, JC) who tend to hold the ball too long in the pocket. Almost all of the low-sack teams had top shelf QB's. Cause or effect?

Posted by: jksesq1 | April 13, 2010 8:15 PM | Report abuse

McNabb needs a play-making wr. The Skins don't have any. Dez Bryant could fill that role. Bryant would be a nice pick at #4. If the Skins are going to compete they will need playmakers.

Posted by: coparker5 | April 13, 2010 8:27 PM | Report abuse

Every time I get on here I have to tell you kids the same thing! Stop all this back and forth about drafting a big time QB. The Redskins have won 3 superbowls with three different QB`s and not one of them were elite! Go figure that they all 3 had one thing in common, a ELITE O-LINE!! Now stop bickering or you will go to bed without desert!

Posted by: vexed50verizonnet | April 13, 2010 9:16 PM | Report abuse


Class act all the way around. We need more unselfish players like Carter. Mean time:

BOYCOTT $NYDER OR MORE OF THE SAME!

Posted by: hessone | April 14, 2010 7:37 AM | Report abuse

Apparently, Fat Albert didn't ask Carter what he thought of his OTA plans.

Posted by: shanks1 | April 14, 2010 10:45 AM | Report abuse

You have to love Andre's attitude. Team management needs to do everything they can to keep this guy around. He's a dominant d-lineman and great teammate. He loves it here and we love him. Let's hold on to him.
Also, Big Al could learn a thing or two from Andre. Last year Andre was a far better player than Al and new he's keeping his mouth shut and doing what he needs to do.

Posted by: greenmounties | April 14, 2010 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Lets see, the post writes:
Carter has not been cleared to participate in team drills, "but I wanted to be here to support my teammates and get going on all the new stuff we're going to be doing,"

GET THE MESSAGE FAT BOY??? YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!! TOO BAD CARTER DOSEN'T PLAY DT !!

Posted by: dc4life | April 14, 2010 1:27 PM | Report abuse

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