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Mike Shanahan elaborates on what Redskins' defense will be

The whispers that Mike Shanahan was entertaining a change to the 3-4 defense were in circulation well before he even was hired as Redskins' head coach. But in his nearly three months on the job, he's been reluctant to confirm the pending change. And apparently he has a good reason.

Even as players are preparing to change to a 3-4 base, Shanahan said the Redskins have not ruled out the possibility of playing with a 4-3 base next season.

During the NFL's annual owner meetings in Orlando this week, I asked Shanahan why he's been coy on the topic of the 3-4 defense.

"I just don't want people to start preparing for it right away," he said with a laugh.

But there's a real reason, and he explained that, too.

"Until you actually know what your personnel is, I think it's a little premature," he said. "We have--everybody on our staff has run the 3-4 and the 4-3. You may get to the middle of your second minicamp and say, 'Hey, we might be running a little bit more of a four-man front than a three-man front.' To say you're going to do something that early is to be a little premature. So what I've said is, we're going to run the Redskins Defense, which could be a combination of both. Until you look at the personnel, I just hate to say blanketly, 'This is what we're going to do.'"

Shanahan was also asked how exactly Albert Haynesworth might fit in the Redskins' version of a 3-4, and in side-stepping the question, he noted the intricacies and varieties the 3-4 offers.

"People say the 3-4 -- well, what kind of 3-4 are you using?" he said. "Are you using Pittsburgh's 3-4? Are you using Dallas' 3-4? San Diego? A lot of people don't even know the differences of the 3-4 defense. Are you using New England's 3-4? Are you using [Vince] Wilfork? Or are you using Pittsburgh's defense? What's the differences in the 3-4?

"There's big differences in the 3-4. But a lot of people don't even know what the differences are. And players don't even know," he continued. "So it's a little premature to say if a guy is going to play nose tackle [or] defensive end."

By Rick Maese  |  March 25, 2010; 9:41 AM ET
Categories:  3-4 defense , Albert Haynesworth , Mike Shanahan  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Campbell draws praise, but no assurances, from Shanahan
Next: Cornerback Phillip Buchanon says he'll visit Redskins

Comments

I have nothign witty to say here.

Go Skins!!

Posted by: skinball77 | March 25, 2010 9:50 AM | Report abuse

I have nothing witty to say here.

Go Skins!!

Posted by: skinball77 | March 25, 2010 9:50 AM | Report abuse

So, Dallas, New York and Philadelphia: if you are listening to Shanahan's comments, you should build your rosters to handle anything... that should be easy, right?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | March 25, 2010 9:50 AM | Report abuse

How about that - NOT trying to fit square pegs into round holes, and adapting to personnel?

Who knew??

Posted by: Rypien11 | March 25, 2010 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Must be nice to throw as many INTs as Ben R and know your defense can still win the game for you.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 25, 2010 9:54 AM | Report abuse


That's a bit off the mark.

The problem with the Skins has not been the defense's inability to play well. The problem has been the offense's inability to score TDs.

Obviously BB benefits from having a great D - most Superbowl champs are great in more than one phase of the game.

Even so, you can't argue that BB has shown to be one of the all-time clutch QBs in the game. He steps to the plate and leads game-winning drives when they need a score.

Precisely the kind of thing we don't see JC doing.

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 9:59 AM | Report abuse

... Look I just tired of hearing people say Campbell isn't awful, he's in the middle so let's just keep him another year. We kept him 5 years already.. the last QB to start as many games was Rypien and that was almost 20 years ago... Bottomline if a QB cannot reach the next level he has to go...

Posted by: sovine08 | March 25, 2010 9:45 AM | Report abuse


Interesting comparison. Rypien was a middle of the road QB, too. But he won because he was surrounded with superior talent. Doug Williams wasn't even middle of the road when he was with Washington.

Campbell won at Auburn because he was surrounded with superior talent.

I don't think he will ever be a great QB but he is not the biggest problem on this team and there is no reason to get rid of him when there are so many more needs to be addressed.

Posted by: Original_etrod | March 25, 2010 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Original_etrod | March 25, 2010 10:01 AM | Report abuse

So Shanny wants to assess the personnel and then figure out what scheme will best fit their abilities?

What is this new teaching?

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Philip Buchanon to visit the Redskins
Aaron Wilson, The National Football Post
Mar 24, 12:50 am EDT

ORLANDO, Fla.—Veteran cornerback Philip Buchanon is set to visit the Washington Redskins on Monday, according to a statement he made on his verified Twitter account.

Buchanon is a former Oakland Raiders first-round draft pick selected in 2002 out of the University of Miami.

He has recorded 339 tackles and 18 interceptions.

Buchanon has also played for the Houston Texans, Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Detroit Lions.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AnJxXbnXwulzvVkBLsvbYD5DubYF?slug=nfp-philip_buchanon_to_visit_the_redskins_html-2010323&prov=nfp&type=lgns


Posted by: t1205 | March 25, 2010 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 9:59 AM | Report abuse

The thing you're missing here is that Big Ben is getting roughly 4 seconds of protection from a 4 man rush. JC is lucky to get half of that protection from a 3 man rush. That's also 1 less guy in coverage from what JC gets. How can JC drive the team down the field when he is getting smacked around by a 3 man rush? Big Ben uses a lot of 5-7 step drops and we can't complete a 3 step drop. Big Ben could not do here what he does in Pittsburgh. He simply would not have the protection.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | March 25, 2010 10:08 AM | Report abuse

What impresses me the most about the Head Coach is the way he speaks, one can understand what he is saying and what he means; when was the last time we had a coach that could put one sentence together? Since George Allen?

Posted by: opita1 | March 25, 2010 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Even so, you can't argue that BB has shown to be one of the all-time clutch QBs in the game. He steps to the plate and leads game-winning drives when they need a score.

Precisely the kind of thing we don't see JC doing.

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 9:59 AM

Your argument reminds me of years ago (yes, I'm dating myself) when I would hear people praising Bobby Dandridge of the Bullets for being a "great clutch player."
My problem was that Dandridge often put the team in the hole with his awful shooting--Elvin Hayes and Wes Unseld carried the load--then Dandridge would make a decent play at the end of the game and he was considered "clutch".

If Dandridge wasn't playing with those HOF'ers, there would never have been any cluth moments because he terrible play would have prevented those last shots from meaning anything.


Posted by: Alan4 | March 25, 2010 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Wow...build the defense around the available personnel. What a brilliant concept...

Soooo refreshing to finally have an NFL coach here...

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 25, 2010 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 9:59 AM | Report abuse

The thing you're missing here is that Big Ben is getting roughly 4 seconds of protection from a 4 man rush. JC is lucky to get half of that protection from a 3 man rush. That's also 1 less guy in coverage from what JC gets. How can JC drive the team down the field when he is getting smacked around by a 3 man rush? Big Ben uses a lot of 5-7 step drops and we can't complete a 3 step drop. Big Ben could not do here what he does in Pittsburgh. He simply would not have the protection.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | March 25, 2010 10:08 AM | Report abuse


That's not what the Pittsburgh fans that I know who watch the Steelers and Ben every Sunday are saying. They seem pretty convinced that alot of Ben's success is coming despite the Oline.

How much of that "4 seconds" of protection is coming from Ben sliding and moving in the pocket to create more time?

When we can't execute a 3-step drop, is it because of pass-pro or is it because JC17 hesitates and doesn't get the ball out when he's supposed to and ends up getting flattened?

Pass-pro for a 3-step drop is not designed to give you 4 seconds of throwing time. When your back foot hits on the 3rd step the ball is supposed to be out, and that's supposed to happen in alot less than 4 seconds.

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 10:20 AM | Report abuse

From previous thread:

It's funny reading some of these comments.

There seems to be a contingent of fans that believe QBs play in a vacuum. To them, it makes no difference what the supporting cast is like or how well Campbell played in relation to the rest of his teammates; to them all that matters is the W-L record, and that's all you can judge a QB by.

Another set of fans believe QBs cannot be judged until their placed under satisfactory conditions. Campbell played behind arguably the worst line in the league, under arguably the worst HC in the league, under certainly the most dysfunctional offensive contingent of coaches in the league, under an offensive system that has been widely and publicly criticized and ridiculed for its unimaginative scheme (including by Shanahan himself), with significant injuries to nearly his entire cast of quality teammates (aside from Moss and Davis), and had to deal with the maturation of his young teammates in an accelerated process. Until he gets even an average supporting cast underneath him, he cannot be judged.

Me, I'd rather take a little bit of both to form my opinion.

The reason Mike Shanahan isn't committing to Campbell as his starting QB at the moment is BECAUSE of the first contingent's argument. Of course you can't automatically hand the reigns for a QB that has not played in your system, and has not show that he's a consistent winner in previous systems. That's sensible.

But the reason Mike Shanahan has not traded Campbell away (under the assumption that Campbell is not part of this team's future, as some argue) is BECAUSE of the second contingent's argument. Campbell has not played under satisfactory conditions. He did play under one of the worst lines in the league. He did play under the worst head coach in the league. He did play under the most dysfunctional contingent of coaches in the NFL. His highly paid supporting cast was largely injured. He did play under the most predictable system in the NFL, as designed by the coaches. And despite all that, Campbell still put up numbers on par or better than a number of quality starting QBs in this league.

So - as Shanahan says - he's impressed by Campbell, but unsure as to whether he can be the winning QB he wants in his system. Hence Campbell on the roster, and hence the QB competition.

And watch, even as the mind-numbingly painful complainers continue to wage war against Campbell, he will still be the starting QB in September of 2010.

Posted by: psps23 | March 25, 2010 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: psps23 | March 25, 2010 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Well said, psps23. Very well done.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 25, 2010 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 10:20 AM | Report abuse

I watch Pitt every weekend. My entire family are Pitt fans. Ben actually has somewhere to go when his line breaks down. Jason does not. Our line collapses at both tackle positions and at the right guard position and often at center. Ben in contrast always has room to run to the right behinf Willie Colon. In case you are wondering I actually have numbers to back up my assertion.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/11/13/between-the-lines-sacks-allowed-sorted-by-team/

This is only through week 12 of last year.

Max Starks is offering 3.7 seconds of protection on his sacks. Stephon Heyer is only offering 2.8 at left tackle. Ole BMW is offering roughly 2.5 seconds at right tackle. Willie Colon isn't even listed as having given up a sack. My point about the 3 step drop was that in the final minutes of a football game you can not win with a 3 step drop. You must have time for plays to develop downfield. Go watch VY's comeback win and tell me how much time he had. You can not execute a 5-7 step drop in 2.8 seconds. It's not enough time for the receiver to get open.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | March 25, 2010 10:32 AM | Report abuse

"Shanahan was also asked how exactly Albert Haynesworth might fit in the Redskins' version of a 3-4, and in side-stepping the question, he noted the intricacies and varieties the 3-4 offers."

That's not side-stepping the question. He's just letting you know that you're too simple-minded (in NFL-level football knowledge) to understand what his ideas are.

And he's right, most people assume all 3-4s are the same, when they're clearly not (which is like saying all 4-3s are the same, which I can assure you if you ask Jason Taylor or Albert Haynesworth, they most certainly aren't).

The two 3-4s I envision the Redskins emulating are Dallas' and Arizona's. Dallas creates high pressure from the NT, while Arizona uses the DEs for high pressure. Depending on where AH lines up, you'll see him be the primary penetration culprit. Of course, with Orakpo coming off the edge.

Posted by: psps23 | March 25, 2010 10:35 AM | Report abuse

But the reason Mike Shanahan has not traded Campbell away (under the assumption that Campbell is not part of this team's future, as some argue) is BECAUSE of the second contingent's argument. Campbell has not played under satisfactory conditions. He did play under one of the worst lines in the league. He did play under the worst head coach in the league. He did play under the most dysfunctional contingent of coaches in the NFL. His highly paid supporting cast was largely injured. He did play under the most predictable system in the NFL, as designed by the coaches. And despite all that, Campbell still put up numbers on par or better than a number of quality starting QBs in this league.

So - as Shanahan says - he's impressed by Campbell, but unsure as to whether he can be the winning QB he wants in his system. Hence Campbell on the roster, and hence the QB competition.

And watch, even as the mind-numbingly painful complainers continue to wage war against Campbell, he will still be the starting QB in September of 2010.

Posted by: psps23 | March 25, 2010 10:22 AM | Report abuse


That's gotta be one of the smuggest most pretentious posts I've seen on RI.


Forthwith, perchance Shanny hasn't traded Campbell away b/c no one else thinks he's good enough to trade for?


Henceforth, you wanna know what's mind-numbingly painful?

Watching JC17 and the Skins lose for the past 2 years.

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 10:36 AM | Report abuse

What is this new teaching?

Posted by: p1funk

I believe it is called "common sense", something not seen around these parts for at least a decade or so.

Posted by: Predator48 | March 25, 2010 10:36 AM | Report abuse

I am very excited to see what type of defense we are running. I mean, essentially if you line Haynsworth up at DE in a 3-4 and have Orakpo at OLB, on the same side. all you have to do to shift to 4-3 is have KpO put his hand in the dirt.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 25, 2010 10:39 AM | Report abuse

Your argument reminds me of years ago (yes, I'm dating myself) when I would hear people praising Bobby Dandridge of the Bullets for being a "great clutch player."
My problem was that Dandridge often put the team in the hole with his awful shooting--Elvin Hayes and Wes Unseld carried the load--then Dandridge would make a decent play at the end of the game and he was considered "clutch".
If Dandridge wasn't playing with those HOF'ers, there would never have been any cluth moments because he terrible play would have prevented those last shots from meaning anything.
Posted by: Alan4 | March 25, 2010 10:10 AM
------------------------------
I'm an old-timer too, and that is garbage. The same could be said of ANY player making a bad play earlier in a game. I'm sure when Bobby D. won in Milwaukee, it was Alcindor & the Big O saving his bacon all game long so BD could get clutch at the end. Ridiculous.

Posted by: shanks1 | March 25, 2010 10:39 AM | Report abuse

That's gotta be one of the smuggest most pretentious posts I've seen on RI.

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 10:36 AM


You must be overlooking Sovine's stuff today...go back to the last thread. Dude is still there fighting the JC fight.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 25, 2010 10:42 AM | Report abuse

PSP,
Not to mention there are so many different ways to line up the LBs in a 3-4, I mean doesn't Dallas essentially line it up with the OLBs on the line ah la 5-2?

Posted by: alex35332 | March 25, 2010 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | March 25, 2010 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Now, given the OLines poor play, there were also several times when JC actually had good protection, had someone open downfield and either a)Didn't look for him or b) couldn't make the throw.. So really, the poor play is a joint effort.

Most of JC's passing yards last year came AFTER the catch, and it doesn't seem as though he possses the "feel" pass when checking down.

He will be the starter this year because there is simply no better option right now.

My 2 cents..

Posted by: skinsfanintampa | March 25, 2010 10:44 AM | Report abuse

You must be overlooking Sovine's stuff today...go back to the last thread. Dude is still there fighting the JC fight.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 25, 2010 10:42 AM | Report abuse
LOL I just went and looked and he is.

Dummy.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 25, 2010 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Wow...how damning is it that Schwartz in Detroit is willing to give Pacman Jones a look and didn't make a run at Haynesworth?

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 25, 2010 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | March 25, 2010 10:32 AM | Report abuse


Fair enough.

But you are basically confirming that Ben creates more time in the pocket for himself by moving around when his line breaks down. He tends to find a safe spot around Willie Colon, but he's still dealing with line breakdowns and finding ways to create throwing time and room for himself and finding open receivers in the process.

The Steelers like to put Ben in a spread shotgun formation at the end of games. He's comfrotable and effective in it, and it gives him a better vantage point to gauge the pass-rush.

Is there any formation that JC17 executes better than another? Does he even have a strength that we can favor? What does he do consistently and effectively besides checkdown?

Do you think that if we brought Big Ben to DC, he and Jason Campbell would put out the same kind of performances on the field playing behind the same Oline?

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 10:48 AM | Report abuse

You must be overlooking Sovine's stuff today...go back to the last thread. Dude is still there fighting the JC fight.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 25, 2010 10:42 AM | Report abuse


Let's leave him there to duke it out with himself...

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Told ya Alex...he'll be there all day because that's the only Redskins topic that gets him outta bed in the morning. I'm thinking JC banged his wife or something...

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 25, 2010 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Since Coach Shanahan has awready fixed the defense, I´m passing along this proposal for your opinon and comments on how to fix the economy:

Dear Mr. President:
Instead of giving billions of dollars to companies that will squander the money on lavish parties and unearned bonuses, use the following plan..

You can call it the Patriotic Retirement Plan:

There are about 40 million people over 50 in the work force.

Pay them $1 million apiece severance for early retirement with the following stipulations:

1) They MUST retire = Forty million job openings.
a) Unemployment fixed.
2) They MUST buy a new American CAR = Forty million cars ordered-
b) Auto Industry fixed.
3) They MUST either buy a house or pay off their mortgage-
c) Housing Crisis fixed.

If more money is needed, have all members of Congress pay their taxes...

Posted by: Surfercalavera | March 25, 2010 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Maybe Shanahan also realizes that if Bradford and Okung are gone then the skins can take one of the top two defensive tackles and stay with a 4-3. Also why let your competition know what you're up to.

Posted by: skinswest | March 25, 2010 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Do you think that if we brought Big Ben to DC, he and Jason Campbell would put out the same kind of performances on the field playing behind the same Oline?

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 10:48 AM


Considering JC had a better QB rating, TD total and completion % this year than Ben did last year with the Pittsburgh O-line was at its worst, I would say it would shake out to about the same. JC would get a slight edge because he'll check down instead of trying to jam ball into a tight spot it probably won't fit.

Also bear in mind the Steelers have two SB MVPs at WR and the Skins barely have two viable starters...

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 25, 2010 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Wow...how damning is it that Schwartz in Detroit is willing to give Pacman Jones a look and didn't make a run at Haynesworth?

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 25, 2010 10:47 AM |

I don't think its damning at all... we're talking about Detroit, not NE or Pitt...

Posted by: Rypien11 | March 25, 2010 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Your argument reminds me of years ago (yes, I'm dating myself) when I would hear people praising Bobby Dandridge of the Bullets for being a "great clutch player."
My problem was that Dandridge often put the team in the hole with his awful shooting--Elvin Hayes and Wes Unseld carried the load--then Dandridge would make a decent play at the end of the game and he was considered "clutch".
If Dandridge wasn't playing with those HOF'ers, there would never have been any cluth moments because he terrible play would have prevented those last shots from meaning anything.
Posted by: Alan4 | March 25, 2010 10:10 AM

Let's just say that your recollection of the magical last few months of the Bullets/Wizards only championship season differs significantly from mine.

Posted by: rbpalmer | March 25, 2010 10:56 AM | Report abuse

"That's gotta be one of the smuggest most pretentious posts I've seen on RI.

Posted by: p1funk"

Awww....

Smug is my middle name, funk. Shocking you would seem so surprised I assert my opinion with confidence.

"Forthwith, perchance Shanny hasn't traded Campbell away b/c no one else thinks he's good enough to trade for?"

Sure, there's a chance. I highly doubt anyone other than you, MrRedskin21, Vic1, or Sovine would actually believe that, but it's a possibility.

Posted by: psps23 | March 25, 2010 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Geez, free agency is in full swing and they don't know what type of defense they plan on using?

Swell.

By the time they figure it out, 3/4s of the players will be gone.

Posted by: SteveMG | March 25, 2010 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Is there any formation that JC17 executes better than another? Does he even have a strength that we can favor? What does he do consistently and effectively besides checkdown?

Do you think that if we brought Big Ben to DC, he and Jason Campbell would put out the same kind of performances on the field playing behind the same Oline?
Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Campbell said when Zorn started in DC, after the first game against the Giants I love shotgun hate play action and Zorn put him in Shotgun more stopped running play action. That was when they went on their 6-2 run and Campbell was looking like a pro-bowler.

I think Ben and Jason have very similar styles of play, not identical, Ben gets a lot of sacks on him that are more a result of him trying to create time running around than Campbell who gets sacked on his third step.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 25, 2010 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Ben creates room because he can. Jason has nowhere to go. Both of our tackles collapse then our right guard collapses. Jason can now not go backwards, right, left, or forward. Ben has an escape route. That's the biggest difference here. Where is Campbell supposed to go?

What I'd do with Jason is bootlegs and roll outs. The guy has wheels and a strong arm, it seems stupid to keep him in the pocket to get hammered. All of the pressure was coming up the middle. Zorn kept running up the middle and passing across the middle. the defense just stayed in the middle. How is that even a WCO? How can you win doing that? You must spread the field from sideline to sideline in a WCO. If we get a LT and a RT we can then use jason's mobilty and his arm strength to stretch the field horizontally. We can bootleg, roll out, throw out routes, etc. Once the defense spreads out from sideline to sideline that will open up the run game in the middle. If we get a good one cut runner like Hardesty then we can actually scare some defenses into stacking the box. Then we can try the deep ball. With a new right guard we should have room in the pocket for JC to step into his throw. This should improve his accuracy. You can not deny that you are more accurate when you can step into your throws. We have nothing to lose by trying this. If we do all this and he still sucks then just draft a QB next year. If he sucks again this year then we'll have another high draft pick. I just think that we should try adjusting our scheme to fit our players before we declare them to be busts.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | March 25, 2010 11:03 AM | Report abuse

"Not to mention there are so many different ways to line up the LBs in a 3-4, I mean doesn't Dallas essentially line it up with the OLBs on the line ah la 5-2?

Posted by: alex35332"

Dallas does a lot of things with their OLBs that a lot of teams don't. Sometimes they do a 5-man front, sometimes they rotate LBs to different slots, sometimes, they line up LBs as interior linemen and run stunts. It's actually similar to how Baltimore ran their defense under Rex Ryan, and both were largely due to the versatility exhibited by Demarcus Ware and Terrell Suggs, as well as Haloti Ngata and Jay Ratliff (though Baltimore's secondary was light year's ahead of Dallas').

I think we have a pair to match those two in Haynesworth and Orakpo. And I'm excited to see it play out.

Posted by: psps23 | March 25, 2010 11:04 AM | Report abuse

I'm curious what the differences are between these different 3-4s. I have no idea what Shanahan is talking about. Maybe a followup post would be helpful?

Posted by: Dellis2 | March 25, 2010 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Smug is my middle name, funk.

Posted by: psps23 | March 25, 2010 10:58 AM

I'd always wondered about that. So, if your mama hadn't named you Smug you'd just be pps23?

Posted by: League-Source | March 25, 2010 11:05 AM | Report abuse

How about that - NOT trying to fit square pegs into round holes, and adapting to personnel?

Who knew??

Posted by: Rypien11 | March 25, 2010 9:54 AM | Report abuse

This is music to my ears.

We'll be perrenial playoff contenders in 3 years. Book it!

Posted by: Devo2 | March 25, 2010 11:15 AM | Report abuse

We need better play in the secondary. That is what killed our defense last year. If they could have covered better, Carter and Orakpo would have had 15 or 20 sacks apiece instead of 11.

Posted by: westjr88 | March 25, 2010 11:17 AM | Report abuse

PHILLIP BUCHANAN TO VISIT REDSKINS,

Posted by: MadeRED | March 25, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

If the team played to their strengths rather than have Zorn and Blanch forcing a system on the players we would have been in the 10-6 range the past 2 years. If we stayed focused on building the o-line.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 25, 2010 11:24 AM | Report abuse

"People say the 3-4 -- well, what kind of 3-4 are you using?" he said. "Are you using Pittsburgh's 3-4? Are you using Dallas' 3-4? San Diego? A lot of people don't even know the differences of the 3-4 defense. Are you using New England's 3-4? Are you using [Vince] Wilfork? Or are you using Pittsburgh's defense? What's the differences in the 3-4?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I bet Zorn didn't know that....

Posted by: hbu_dog | March 25, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

PHILLIP BUCHANAN TO VISIT REDSKINS,

Posted by: MadeRED | March 25, 2010 11:23 AM

Laughing at the irony - the guy who always complains about J-Reid, is "breaking" a story that's been posted up here for the last hour or two.

Posted by: Rypien11 | March 25, 2010 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Awww....

Smug is my middle name, funk. Shocking you would seem so surprised I assert my opinion with confidence.

"Forthwith, perchance Shanny hasn't traded Campbell away b/c no one else thinks he's good enough to trade for?"

Sure, there's a chance. I highly doubt anyone other than you, MrRedskin21, Vic1, or Sovine would actually believe that, but it's a possibility.

Posted by: psps23 | March 25, 2010 10:58 AM | Report abuse


Me, REdskin21, Vic1, Sovine...

...I would also add all the NFL GMs that had an opportunity to trade for Campbell last year when Snerratto seemed desperately hell-bent on getting him out of town for a 2nd-rounder, and all the NFL GMs that seem to have a similar opportunity this year...


Seriously, I find it unsurprisingly funny to see Holmgren prefer the likes of Seneca Wallace and Jake Delhomme.

Or watch Pete Carroll who would rather trade a couple picks to SanDiego to get a 3RD STRING QB on his roster.


Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 11:28 AM | Report abuse

See. This is what I'm talking about.

We've got people up here arguing that Ben Roethlisberger wouldn't be as good as Jason Campbell if he were here in Washington!

What do you say to stuff like that?!

The only thing that comes to mind is:

?!?!??@?@?$?#?%***@%!%!!?@#?#

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 11:30 AM | Report abuse

PHILLIP BUCHANAN TO VISIT REDSKINS,

Posted by: MadeRED | March 25, 2010 11:23 AM

"Mr. Buchanan, we have some snacks and light refreshments on the table to your right. You will also find a "Hello, My Name Is" stickers and a marker, please fill that out. The tour will begin in a few moments. Please have your medical history and salary history available when called."

I'm wondering whether Jevan Snead is among the 4-5 guys with whom Shanahan is going to meet personally. I'm also wondering what happens to Clot Brennan if they draft a QB (though maybe I shouldn't wonder ... what round was Jordan Palmer drafted?).

Posted by: dcsween | March 25, 2010 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Seriously, I find it unsurprisingly funny to see Holmgren prefer the likes of Seneca Wallace and Jake Delhomme.

Or watch Pete Carroll who would rather trade a couple picks to SanDiego to get a 3RD STRING QB on his roster.

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 11:28 AM


If you try to get into the heads of an NFL GM, you'll go crazy. The Dolphins passed on FREE AGENT Dree Brees so they could give up a 2nd round pick to Minny for Daunte Culpepper and his shredded knee.

A player's true worth is determined on the field, not on the whim of a GM.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 25, 2010 11:31 AM | Report abuse

"Max Starks is offering 3.7 seconds of protection on his sacks. Stephon Heyer is only offering 2.8 at left tackle. Ole BMW is offering roughly 2.5 seconds at right tackle. Willie Colon isn't even listed as having given up a sack."

Wow. I feel better after reviewing that table, because I now know Stephon Heyer is actually a better pass-blocker than Marcus McNeil of San Diego and the entire Indianapolis line except for Jeff Saturday. Who'd a thunk it?

Not.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 25, 2010 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Ok here is a real question.
Who did worse in blocking for their QB's? Spurriers line in his last season or Zorns?

Posted by: alex35332 | March 25, 2010 11:35 AM | Report abuse

The thing about cherry-picking stats, something we see a lot of around here, is that it allows you to make your point without having to defend against inconsistencies. Based on that table of individual sacks and protection times, you could argue that Heyer is better than Dave Diehl of the Giants -- except he isn't, is he?

Posted by: Samson151 | March 25, 2010 11:36 AM | Report abuse

What impresses me the most about the Head Coach is the way he speaks, one can understand what he is saying and what he means; when was the last time we had a coach that could put one sentence together? Since George Allen?

Posted by: opita1 | March 25, 2010 10:10 AM

What Shanahan said, ""People say the 3-4 -- well, what kind of 3-4 are you using?" he said. "Are you using Pittsburgh's 3-4? Are you using Dallas' 3-4? San Diego? A lot of people don't even know the differences of the 3-4 defense. Are you using New England's 3-4? Are you using [Vince] Wilfork? Or are you using Pittsburgh's defense? What's the differences in the 3-4?"

Its easy to answer a question with more questions. Did he answer the question about whether Haynesworth would play NT or did he just avoid it by changing what the question was? No doubt that the guy is top of the game responding to the media.

Posted by: dcsween | March 25, 2010 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Seriously, I find it unsurprisingly funny to see Holmgren prefer the likes of Seneca Wallace and Jake Delhomme.

Or watch Pete Carroll who would rather trade a couple picks to SanDiego to get a 3RD STRING QB on his roster.


Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 11:28 AM | Report abuse

I guess these coaches/GMs also prefer to hold onto their picks at the top of the draft.

I find it funny that people choose to site the fact that JC hasn't been traded as proof that he is a terrible QB.

How many guys with 1st round tenders have been signed by other teams?

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | March 25, 2010 11:39 AM | Report abuse

... If you try to get into the heads of an NFL GM, you'll go crazy. ...

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 25, 2010 11:31 AM

I tried to get into Vinny Cerrato's head once. Not only did I go crazy, it was a specific kind of crazy where I felt really dirty, picking flies off myself, even though I was the most clever GM ever ... lots of voices were shouting at me ... and I spent a lot of time playing air guitar on a racquetball racket. [Did I spell either of those last two words correctly?]

Posted by: dcsween | March 25, 2010 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | March 25, 2010 11:03 AM | Report abuse

I think Jason's best stuff (besides the checkdown) is when he's on the move.

So why didn't he go on the move more? Why doesn't he improvise more?

A guy like Ben improvises and figures it out.

A guy like JC17 does not. Was it all just bad coaching?

We want to simultaneously crucify Zorn for putting JC17 in bad positions that didn't maximize his strengths. At the same time we want to praise Campbell for acheiving "career" numbers last year...UNDER ZORN'S TUTELAGE.

I know our Oline sucked in pass-pro for most of the season. But JC17 had decent pass-pro for the first several games until Chris Samuels got injured. He played just as crappy in those games as he did in all the others.

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Who did worse in blocking for their QB's? Spurriers line in his last season or Zorns?

Posted by: alex35332 | March 25, 2010 11:35 AM


Kinda like asking which is worse: getting mauled by a lion or trampled alive by an elephant...

Hard to say really...Spurrier woulda sent the RT out in a fly pattern if the rules allowed it, so protection wasn't really his bag. Zorn was actually trying and just didn't have the smarts, the players or the depth to make it happen. Tough call man...

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 25, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse

psps23 that was the most thoughtful and well put together comment about the whole Campbell debate Ive seen in months..totally agree with your assessment that was awsome!!!

Posted by: hammer4 | March 25, 2010 11:43 AM | Report abuse

The thing about cherry-picking stats, something we see a lot of around here, is that it allows you to make your point without having to defend against inconsistencies. Based on that table of individual sacks and protection times, you could argue that Heyer is better than Dave Diehl of the Giants -- except he isn't, is he?

Posted by: Samson151 | March 25, 2010 11:36 AM | Report abuse

You need to look at both columns. Dave Diehl gave up only 2 sacks compared to Heyer's 6.5. So yeah, YOU may look at that table and see an inconsistency but the rest of us don't.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | March 25, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

"Seriously, I find it unsurprisingly funny to see Holmgren prefer the likes of Seneca Wallace and Jake Delhomme.

Or watch Pete Carroll who would rather trade a couple picks to SanDiego to get a 3RD STRING QB on his roster.

Posted by: p1funk"

What I find unsurprisingly funny is that you attribute the fact that these teams settle for Seneca Wallace, Jake Delhomme, and Charlie Whitehurst not because Shanahan hasn't put Campbell on the trading block for anything less than a 1st rounder, but because for some baseless reason those teams would have no interest in Jason Campbell.

Kind of like you assume Synderatto were "hell bent" on trading away their starting QB and found no takers, despite the fact that they were unable to trade for the pro-bowl QB they desired to replace Campbell with.

Why do I envision that if you were a Chicago fan and Washington were the team that won the Cutler sweepstakes, you would be on a Bears forum clamoring that Jerry Angelo was hell bent on trading away Kyle Orton, but no GM in the league wanted him?

Posted by: psps23 | March 25, 2010 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Damn this guy exudes confidence. In Shanny I trust!

Posted by: joeboggs | March 25, 2010 11:45 AM | Report abuse

PHILLIP BUCHANAN TO VISIT REDSKINS,

Posted by: MadeRED | March 25, 2010 11:23 AM

Laughing at the irony - the guy who always complains about J-Reid, is "breaking" a story that's been posted up here for the last hour or two.

Posted by: Rypien11 | March 25, 2010 11:26 AM

----
Story was not and still has not been reported here. Probably because it's according to sources and Reid has none.

Posted by: MadeRED | March 25, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Buchanon to visit the Skins........

Mr. Rogers, pack your s*&t skippy and have fun playing in Detroit, St. Louis, Cleveland, or Tampa....

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 25, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

I guess these coaches/GMs also prefer to hold onto their picks at the top of the draft.

I find it funny that people choose to site the fact that JC hasn't been traded as proof that he is a terrible QB.

How many guys with 1st round tenders have been signed by other teams?

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | March 25, 2010 11:39 AM | Report abuse


I just cite JC's performances on the football field as evidence that he's not a very good QB.

The whole tender/trading issue simply highlights the reality that JC17 is not nearly as valuable in the eyes of others in the same way he seems to be valuable in the eyes of his RI fanbase.

The 1st round tender is simply a starting point for haggling and doesn't even indicate what his value actually is.

But I don't get your point by citing other first round tenders out there.

The fact that JC17 has a first-round tender and has not been traded (or even come up in a trade discussion as far as we know) simply means that the market sees that tender as being too high.

THey don't believe he's worth a first round pick. (Not to mention that last year no one believed he was worth a 2nd round pick).

That's not exactly a "pro-Campbell" point.

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 11:49 AM | Report abuse

I tried to get into Vinny Cerrato's head once. Not only did I go crazy, it was a specific kind of crazy where I felt really dirty, picking flies off myself, even though I was the most clever GM ever ... lots of voices were shouting at me ... and I spent a lot of time playing air guitar on a racquetball racket. [Did I spell either of those last two words correctly?]


Posted by: dcsween | March 25, 2010 11:40 AM


LOL Sween...easily the funniest post of the day.

But then again, this wasn't exactly a day for comedy, just JC melodrama...

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 25, 2010 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 11:40 AM | Report abuse

You watched a different game then NFL.com and I watched then. The ONLY protection he got was from Chris Samuels.

NFL.com

Key stat
The Redskins gained just 51 yards rushing on 20 carries, following a Clinton Portis 34-yard run on their first play from scrimmage.

no run game

Giants' defense dominates
The Giants didn't skip a beat in Bill Sheridan's debut as defensive coordinator. While the new defensive leader didn't dial up the blitz as frequently as his predecessor (Steve Spagnuolo), he called an assortment of stunts and games up front to free Justin Tuck and Osi Umenyiora off the edges. The Redskins seemingly had no answer to the tactic, as Jason Campbell was repeatedly battered by the Giants' front four on most passes. The pressure led Campbell to turn the ball over twice, and kept the offense out of sync for most of the day.

-- Bucky Brooks

Your're right man we had awesome pass pro.

I'm not even going to mention the Rams game. Campbell led us into the red zone 5 times only to have the ball taken out of his hands and ran into a pile of defenders.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | March 25, 2010 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Have all the open competitions you want. If the Skins don't fix their line, Campbell's the QB no matter what. No one else likely to be on the roster will be able to stand up to the kind beating JC took last year.

Posted by: closer44 | March 25, 2010 11:52 AM | Report abuse

In order to get into Vinny's head, you have to get up his behind first... that's where it is.

Posted by: DikShuttle | March 25, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Campbell will get his opportunity to show shanny what he can do... if he wins the job shanny will run an offense around what he thinmks JC does best...this will be his last and best opportubity in this league (to start)shanny will however not have unlimited patience the hook will come quickly durring the regular season if Jason struggles with an offense run around his supposeded strenghts.....

jury has been out on Campbell over his whole career changes in offenses no line recievers coaches yada yada yada... To me he has many flaws that keep him middle of the pack...he is just half a step slow on everything not so much that it tells you he can't play but just enough that prevents him from making plays... he is just not a playmaker or a leader...I think Madden said it best "if you are unsure about your Quarterback, then you don't have one."

Posted by: OriginalOldschool1 | March 25, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

I watch Pitt every weekend. My entire family are Pitt fans. Ben actually has somewhere to go when his line breaks down. Jason does not. Our line collapses at both tackle positions and at the right guard position and often at center. Ben in contrast always has room to run to the right behinf Willie Colon. In case you are wondering I actually have numbers to back up my assertion.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/11/13/between-the-lines-sacks-allowed-sorted-by-team/

This is only through week 12 of last year.

Max Starks is offering 3.7 seconds of protection on his sacks. Stephon Heyer is only offering 2.8 at left tackle. Ole BMW is offering roughly 2.5 seconds at right tackle. Willie Colon isn't even listed as having given up a sack. My point about the 3 step drop was that in the final minutes of a football game you can not win with a 3 step drop. You must have time for plays to develop downfield. Go watch VY's comeback win and tell me how much time he had. You can not execute a 5-7 step drop in 2.8 seconds. It's not enough time for the receiver to get open.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | March 25, 2010 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Hey PAskinsfan, thanks for those numbers. I watch a lot of Stiller games too, and I've observed the same thing. BR tends to hold on to the ball too long, looking for someone to get open. I'm not saying the sacks are all his fault, but I think that is his personality, to try and make something happen. And many times he does.

JC on the other hand was just under way too much pressure almost immediately. That's why I think we need to shore up the OL first, then determine if JC can be the man.

Posted by: frediefritz | March 25, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

IMO if Campbell gets traded it will be on draft day because we took or have decided we are taking a QB at #4. That's the only way he gets moved. If we don't take a QB at #4 he'll be here regardless of whether we take one later or not. But at #4 that guy is going to play immediately or very soon, which makes JC completely expendable. Worst case Sexxy Rexy can handle it for a year but while JC can't get a 1 or a 2 he most probably is worth a 3rd rounder to someone and if you are going to take the QB at #4 you might as well get a pick for Campbell.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 25, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

The fact that JC17 has a first-round tender and has not been traded (or even come up in a trade discussion as far as we know) simply means that the market sees that tender as being too high.

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 11:49 AM


Actually, that's true of ANYONE given a 1st round tender. The guys who really are worth a 1st round pick are tendered at the 1st AND 3rd round level.

Just sayin'...

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 25, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

But I don't get your point by citing other first round tenders out there.

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 11:49 AM | Report abuse

My point is teams aren't just giving away 1st rnd picks to sign RFAs.

Case in point. Brandon Marshall top 3 talent in the league at WR. No one has given up their 1st for him. By your logic, he is just as bad as JC.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | March 25, 2010 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: MadeRED | March 25, 2010 11:48 AM

Been posted by fellow Hamsters a bunch of times. You're late.

Posted by: Rypien11 | March 25, 2010 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: psps23 | March 25, 2010 11:45 AM | Report abuse


Not really sure what you are trying to say in that first paragraph, but the bottom line is that teams out there with QB needs don't really seem to have an interest in Jason Campbell. He's supposely the best RFA QB on the market and there aren't any sniffs. A first-round tender (and he probably could be had for less) is not very high for a 5-year vet that you think could be your franchise QB to build around.

And yet there are people up here saying that he'd perform slightly better than Ben Roethlisberger here in DC.

It's the disconnect between the value that his apologists see in him versus how the rest of the NFL seems to value him.

And the bit about the 2nd rounder is not "baseless". We all heard about how they tried to shop him for a 2nd round pick and failed.

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 11:58 AM | Report abuse

PHILLIP BUCHANAN TO VISIT REDSKINS,

Posted by: MadeRED | March 25, 2010 11:23 AM

Laughing at the irony - the guy who always complains about J-Reid, is "breaking" a story that's been posted up here for the last hour or two.

Posted by: Rypien11 | March 25, 2010 11:26 AM | Report abuse
--------------------------------------------------

It's been more than a few hours, I put this up on RI a few days ago when yahoo first broke the story. Monday I believe.

Posted by: Ahoff829 | March 25, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Playing Grossman for a whole year would be an unmitigated disaster. Whatever rookie QB comes here (if that happens this year at all) would be starting no later than Week 6...

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 25, 2010 12:01 PM | Report abuse

But I don't get your point by citing other first round tenders out there.

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 11:49 AM | Report abuse

My point is teams aren't just giving away 1st rnd picks to sign RFAs.

Case in point. Brandon Marshall top 3 talent in the league at WR. No one has given up their 1st for him. By your logic, he is just as bad as JC.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | March 25, 2010 11:57 AM | Report abuse


No. By YOUR logic, he's just as bad as JC. I did not bring up the point about other first-round tenders, you did and you want to draw direct comparisons.

Besides it's apples and oranges, with Marshall and Campbell. The issue with Marshall is not performance but the off-filed/lockerroom issues.

But I am AGREEING with your point, but I don't think you see the implication.

Teams are NOT giving away their first round pick for Jason Campbell.

What does that say about how they value him?

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 12:02 PM | Report abuse

"No player, it seems, divides our Redskins Insider community more than quarterback Jason Campbell."--REDSKIN INSIDER


And Ceratto was the exec who divided the Redskins insider community. Some hated him, others merely loathed him.

Posted by: TheCork | March 25, 2010 12:03 PM | Report abuse

The fact that JC17 has a first-round tender and has not been traded (or even come up in a trade discussion as far as we know) simply means that the market sees that tender as being too high.

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 11:49 AM


Actually, that's true of ANYONE given a 1st round tender. The guys who really are worth a 1st round pick are tendered at the 1st AND 3rd round level.

Just sayin'...

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 25, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse


Agree.

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 12:03 PM | Report abuse

"I guess these coaches/GMs also prefer to hold onto their picks at the top of the draft...I find it funny that people choose to site the fact that JC hasn't been traded as proof that he is a terrible QB."

I don't thinkn that JC is terrible.

He's just not satisfying.

Yeah, sure, he gets hit a lot.

But on the plays where he's not getting hit, he isn't completing 30-40 yards bombs, either.

And when you get down to it, JC seems to stand for "Just Checkdown".

'Cuz that's where he's completing his passes--with or without blocking.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 25, 2010 12:05 PM | Report abuse

"PHILLIP BUCHANAN"

Signing him means you believe he is in some way better than the guy you released--Fred Smoot.

And I don't believe that.

Give him a cookie and send him on.

Give K Barnes playing time and find another corner in some other way.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 25, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

If Bradford and Okung are gone at 4 and Shanahan isn't secretly in love with Clausen, the "Washington redskins with the fourth pick in the draft select (Mumble) Suh, defensive tackle..."

And Washington may NEVER see a 3-4 defense.

Haynesworth (in shape) and Suh at tackles? The mind reels. Fletcher plays ten more years and Carter and Orakpo have 15 sacks each.

Yeah, I know, go OLine...but still...,.

Posted by: TheCork | March 25, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

RE: Charlie Whitehurst

His scouting report says he may lack arm strength and isn't the greatest decision maker but is incredibly accurate on short underneath throws and possesses a quick release. It sounds to me that he would go great in Seattle's WCO but would be terrible in Norv's Coryell based system. I'll probably check out some Shehawks games next year to see how accurate that assesmment is. If they pick up a left tackle too then Whitehurst could be decent.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | March 25, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

P1funk – 27 GM’s didn’t think guys like Dan Marino, Joe Montana, Johhny Unitas, Kurt Warner, Brett Favre (and Atlanta had 2 1st rounders that year), etc were worth first round picks. You can’t put any stock in the fact when a player doesn’t get traded, or what GM’s may or may not think.. I don’t hear about any trade offers out there for Peyton Manning…..

Not saying Campbell is super bowl mvp material, but given the right surroundings, maybe he could be. I would like a guy who throws more consistently accurately downfield myself (like Brees/Manning) but replacing the qb right now isn’t the top priority. If we had multiple early picks I would say draft or trade for a QB but right now there isn’t anything better out there. Let’s see what happens with the right players and coaches around him before making any hasty moves when there are more pressing holes to fill.

And by the way, the saints didn’t just get drew brees and BAM! – super bowl. Took him 4 years, and I would bet at least an 80% roster turnover to accomplish it.

And PSPS’s post was spot on.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 25, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

The pressure led Campbell to turn the ball over twice, and kept the offense out of sync for most of the day.

-- Bucky Brooks

Your're right man we had awesome pass pro.

I'm not even going to mention the Rams game. Campbell led us into the red zone 5 times only to have the ball taken out of his hands and ran into a pile of defenders.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | March 25, 2010 11:51 AM | Report abuse


Bucky Brooks is just wrong.

The fumble/TD that Osi returned was JC17's fault, and they analyzed it several times on TV.

The pass-pro pushed Osi wide and up the field - which is what it was supposed to do. Instead of Campbell stepping up into the pocket where he'd get protection, he stood back and Osi got a clean swipe on the ball.


But hey, if you respect Bucky Brooks so much, let's see what he thought of that Rams game and JC's performance:


Redskins win despite issues
The Redskins' narrow victory over the Rams masks the offensive ineptitude displayed by Jim Zorn's troops in the red zone. The team was 0-for-5 in red-zone efficiency and settled for three field goals. Although Jason Campbell finished with a respectable 242 passing yards, he was unable to guide the team to a touchdown and repeatedly failed to connect with receivers inside the 10-yard line. However, Campbell wasn't solely responsible for not getting touchdowns. Clinton Portis also came up short on a few opportunities to put the ball in the end zone (he overthrew a halfback pass from the 5-yard line on third-and-goal in the third quarter and was stopped for a two-yard loss on fourth-and-1 from the 2-yard line with less than two minutes left).

-- Bucky Brooks

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Good point, Cork...if this coaching staff is serious about catering the scheme to the personnel, the Suh/Haynesworth tandem could have some real teeth. I've heard some great things about Suh's prospects as a 3-4 DE, so the switch to the 3-4 could still happen...just a couple years down the line once we can replace guys like Carter and Rocky and Fletch with guys that are better suited to the 3-4.

Sad part is even in the 4-3 Suh would be the lead dog and Haynesworth would be left to try and keep up with a rookie...

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 25, 2010 12:13 PM | Report abuse

I don't thinkn that JC is terrible.

He's just not satisfying.

Yeah, sure, he gets hit a lot.

But on the plays where he's not getting hit, he isn't completing 30-40 yards bombs, either.

Posted by: MistaMoe

I don't think it's a coincidence that neither JC nor Ramsey developed as hoped. It's hard to teach a soldier "Theory of Warfare" when he's constantly under Mortar attack.

This is the main reason why #4 should NOT be wasted on another QB who'll suffer PTSD after his stint behind that Sieve of an OLine.

Posted by: TheCork | March 25, 2010 12:15 PM | Report abuse

My 1 month from the draft revised hopes after partial FA:

We sign Buchanon.

We trade CR22 (aka- double move stone hands) for a 3rd.

Draft day we trade Campbell for a 3rd.

At #4 we take Clausen.
At #37 we take Roger Saffold LT Indianna
We trade a 2011 #1 to get back in the top of round 2 this year and take Charles Brown RT USC
Round 3 take Cam Thomas NT UNC
Round 3 take a RB Joe McKnight, Ben Tate, Anthony Dixon, Montario Hardesty, or Blount
Round 4 best MLB or guard
Round 5 best MLB or guard
Round 7 best available

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 25, 2010 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Actually Phillip Buchanan twittered that he was visiting the Redskins.

Posted by: tony325 | March 25, 2010 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Sad part is even in the 4-3 Suh would be the lead dog and Haynesworth would be left to try and keep up with a rookie...

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 25, 2010 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Oh no, brownie, didn't you know that we would pick ERIC BERRY #4? Thought I'd clue you in.

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 25, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

"A first-round tender (and he probably could be had for less) is not very high for a 5-year vet that you think could be your franchise QB to build around."

It is when he's on a 1-year contract that would, in all probability, have to be extended on the level of Garrard, Schaub, Cassel, Rodgers or similar QBs of that ilk (and I know Schaub and Rodgers have outperformed their contracts coming off last season -- I'm talking about how they were viewed when extended). For that type of contractual commitment (plus the 1st round pick) you'd better be damn sure he's a franchise QB, not just think he could be one.

And nobody (or at least I) is saying he is one...yet. Just that the possibility is still there.

And I'm not on here saying that we owe it to Campbell, or that the spot should be given to him, or anything like that. In fact, just yesterday, I posted that I would be happy if the team drafted Tebow in the second round as a QB of the future (and I know a lot of people disagree with that).

But a lot of the speculation regarding Campbell from his detractors are pretty far off base. That's my opinion.

And nobody knows what happened as far as the trade talks for Campbell last season. All we know is that he was being shopped for a 2nd rounder, and the trade never happened. Could be that nobody offered a second. Or it could be that the Redskins had an offer ready, but were beat on the trade for Cutler, so they rescinded the trade with Campbell.

Posted by: psps23 | March 25, 2010 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 12:02 PM | Report abuse

just say you don't think he's that good and I agree with that.

There are plenty of clearer ways to make that point than trying to interpret what GMs think of him.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | March 25, 2010 12:20 PM | Report abuse

P1funk – 27 GM’s didn’t think guys like Dan Marino, Joe Montana, Johhny Unitas, Kurt Warner, Brett Favre (and Atlanta had 2 1st rounders that year), etc were worth first round picks. You can’t put any stock in the fact when a player doesn’t get traded, or what GM’s may or may not think.. I don’t hear about any trade offers out there for Peyton Manning…..

Not saying Campbell is super bowl mvp material, but given the right surroundings, maybe he could be. I would like a guy who throws more consistently accurately downfield myself (like Brees/Manning) but replacing the qb right now isn’t the top priority. If we had multiple early picks I would say draft or trade for a QB but right now there isn’t anything better out there. Let’s see what happens with the right players and coaches around him before making any hasty moves when there are more pressing holes to fill.

And by the way, the saints didn’t just get drew brees and BAM! – super bowl. Took him 4 years, and I would bet at least an 80% roster turnover to accomplish it.

And PSPS’s post was spot on.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 25, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse


That's preposterous. What are you talking about??

You can't put any stock in what other GMs think??? They are the final talent evaluators in the NFL!! The buck stops with them in terms of assessing and evaluating the cost/risk/benefit of gettin a player on their roster.

Am I supposed to put more stock in the opinions of a bunch of RI posters who like to toggle through stats to gauge the value of Jason Campbell??


And you are going to try to make a comparison between JC not getting traded and Peyton Manning not getting traded???!?!

GM's drafting people out of college have NO material on which to gauge Dan marion, Joe Montana, Kurt warner, etc.

These GMs have 5 YEARS OF FILM to evaluate Campbell.

Do you think those GMs would have been willing to trade a 1st round pick in order to get Dan Marino or Joe Montana when they were 5 YEARS INTO THEIR PRO CAREER!

...Jeez. What do you say to this stuff??!?!?

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 25, 2010 12:05 PM


JCs checkdowns are more an indictment on our receiving core than his profiency as a qb. Your point would make more sense if JC had one of the lowest yard per attempts average and he does not. How many times have the receivers run routes short of first downs or fail to get open at all?

Are you saying he isnt a good qb because he doesnt throw into coverage all the time just so announcers can say he is a gunslinger. Isnt a qb supposed to take the best option the defense gives him? Supposedly if a qb is checking down then he has gone through all of his progressions. Looking at who he had to throw to, ask yourself how many qbs would have done better in the same situation?

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | March 25, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Having a quicker release will make a lousy O-line a lot better. The WR's were open often as anyone who went to the games can attest.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | March 25, 2010 12:26 PM | Report abuse

"JCs checkdowns are more an indictment on our receiving core than his profiency as a qb."

"Isn't a qb supposed to take the best option the defense gives him?"


No, Campbell's not a gunslinger.

A gunslinger throws upfield accurately and has the touchdowns to back him up.

Campbell is not an accurate deep ball thrower.

When a guy completes a lot of checkdowns, smoke screens, and quick outs, the defense plays up in the offense's face, daring it to beat them deep.

And Campbell has shown--regardless of the blocking--an inability to scare any team's defense.

Again: that's why to Shanahan he is an enigma wrapped in a puzzle.

Is he the real deal shackled by poor line play or just good enough to impress in spurts?

I say--like John Madden--when you have these questions about a quarterback all it means is you don't have one.

And we don't.

So trade Campbell, use what you get to beef up the line, depend on Grossman for a season while a newbie gets his sea legs.

In the NFL, when you're leading a 4-12 team to repeated bottom of the division finishes, the excuses become hard to listen to when the facts suggest you need to move on.

It's time for Campbell to go.

He had his chance.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 25, 2010 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 12:11 PM | Report abuse

The higlight is on nfl.com. I just watched it 5 times. Campbell takes a 7 step drop. Samuels pushes Osi out and up the field but Osi beats him around the edge. Then Campbell takes about 3 steps up into the pocket before trying to throw. So Campbell did in fact step up. Osi actually ran up from behind Campbell, not from the side. Osi beat Samuels around the edge. You can say that Campbell should have gotten rid of the ball but it was a 7 step drop so obviously we were going deep.

BTW, we only threw the ball 4 times in the redzone against the Rams on 5 drives. 2 were dropped TDs (Sellers and DT11), 1 was a bad throw, and the other one was an obvious PI call that ARE should have gotten. So to blame Campbell for the lack of TDs in that game is a little silly. We ran the ball in the red zone 16 times and got stuffed on most of them.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | March 25, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Look, if they play to what he does well and let JC17 progress like he has, we are looking at a QB with a 66% completion rating, 235-240 yards a game, a 4-5% TD% a 1-3% int%. A guy who will throw 3 passes for 20 yards a game and 1 for 40 yards every other game.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 25, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

beep

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | March 25, 2010 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Alan4 | March 25, 2010 10:10 AM

Your argument reminds me of years ago (yes, I'm dating myself) when I would hear people praising Bobby Dandridge of the Bullets for being a "great clutch player."
My problem was that Dandridge often put the team in the hole with his awful shooting--Elvin Hayes and Wes Unseld carried the load--then Dandridge would make a decent play at the end of the game and he was considered "clutch".

If Dandridge wasn't playing with those HOF'ers, there would never have been any cluth moments because he terrible play would have prevented those last shots from meaning anything.
___________________________________________

If you really remember those glorious Bullets' years before Bobby Dandridge, you should recall that they could never get to, or win a championship because they were extremely weak at the 3 spot. Big E, Wes, Chenier, Porter/Bing were proven allstars, (plus Kupchak, Charles Johnson, Larry Wright & Greg Ballard to name a few played valuable minutes) but Mike Riordan at the 3 was just awful on both offense & defense. During Bobby D's first season with the Bullets he outplayed Larry Kenon (San Antonio), Dr J (76ers) in the playoffs, and had a pretty good series against Seattle to help win the title, despite the sub par play of Kevin Grevey & Thomas Henderson. The following year, Bobby D played a major role in helping the Bullets reached the finals again. He helped the Bullets come from a 3-1 series deficit against the Spurs to win the Eastern Conference. Unfortunately, the backcourt of Seattle's Gus Williams & Dennis Johnson was way to much for Grevey and Henderson. The bottom line, during the 78 & 79 seasons, Bobby D was a "clutch" player!! Geez I long for those years. Go Skins...
Go Skins

Posted by: akjproductions | March 25, 2010 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Surfercalavera posted this suggestion:

Dear Mr. President:
Instead of giving billions of dollars to companies that will squander the money on lavish parties and unearned bonuses, use the following plan..

You can call it the Patriotic Retirement Plan:

There are about 40 million people over 50 in the work force.

Pay them $1 million apiece severance for early retirement with the following stipulations:

1) They MUST retire = Forty million job openings.
a) Unemployment fixed.
2) They MUST buy a new American CAR = Forty million cars ordered-
b) Auto Industry fixed.
3) They MUST either buy a house or pay off their mortgage-
c) Housing Crisis fixed.

If more money is needed, have all members of Congress pay their taxes...
=========================================
i wonder where the USA will get the 40 trillion (yes, TRILLION) dollars to implement this. We have a $10T economy, so even at a 50% tax rate on *everything* and skipping paying for defense, Social Security, Medicare, and so on, it would take 8 yrs to accumulate that.

Strikes me as not well thought out.

Posted by: FanaticalReader | March 25, 2010 3:04 PM | Report abuse

It really is not fair to say Campbell can't throw a deep ball well when he doesn't have single receiver who can catch it. Moss has dropped bomb after bomb because the safety is 10 feet away and he looks at him b/c he is scared. Give Campbell HW, SH, and MW or DD, CJ, and JJ and see how well he can throw the deep ball then. You know, when the receiver actually goes up and tries to catch it, has good hands, times his jump right, adjusts his route to be in the right position, and is willing to take a hit for his QB. I'm not saying that he would be better than BB, all I'm saying is that it's not fair to compare two QBs when one of them has 3 receivers better than any that the other has. Moss is at best a number 2 WR on a bad team and a number 3 or 4 on a good WR team.

Posted by: withoutanet | March 25, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

I meant GJ, not CJ

Posted by: withoutanet | March 25, 2010 4:13 PM | Report abuse

There are about 40 million people over 50 in the work force.

Pay them $1 million apiece severance for early retirement with the following stipulations:

1) They MUST retire = Forty million job openings.
a) Unemployment fixed.
2) They MUST buy a new American CAR = Forty million cars ordered-
b) Auto Industry fixed.
3) They MUST either buy a house or pay off their mortgage-
c) Housing Crisis fixed.

If more money is needed, have all members of Congress pay their taxes...
-------------------

Sure, no problem, give me a million and I'll happily retire. Problem is, if you give 50 million people one million dollars, have you done the math to see how costly that would be?

Posted by: DrWho2 | March 28, 2010 1:08 PM | Report abuse

That's gotta be one of the smuggest most pretentious posts I've seen on RI.


Forthwith, perchance Shanny hasn't traded Campbell away b/c no one else thinks he's good enough to trade for?


Henceforth, you wanna know what's mind-numbingly painful?

Watching JC17 and the Skins lose for the past 2 years.

Posted by: p1funk | March 25, 2010 10:36 AM | Report abuse

I am beginning to believe that most of the posters no nothing about the NFL!!!! This is a Cap free Year!!! All the players that were supposed to become free agents did not become free agents!!! all of them are restricted.Notice that there has not been much movement. Campbell is good enough to trade but the Redskins Tendered Him. Any team that would like his services would have to give up a 1st round Pick!!!! Smart move on the skins part.If they Tendered Campbell to a 3rd Round then he would have been gone and there's no value there. So if they lose Campbell they get another 1st round Pick, if he does not go , they have serviceable QB for a cheap salary and it also will give them time to build to the future.That tender was by design ...not because they were no takers. If they wanted to trade Campbell they would have done it and received a RB , WR , LB , OL or any position. People get a clue!!!

Posted by: joh375 | March 28, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

And one last point .... Why would any team give up a first Round Pick for anyone.. Not one NFL team has done that this year!!!! Please go to NFL.com they have all the latest news. Also in the case of JC , No one has to give up anything for him when they can wait until the 2011 season and just sign him to a contract with out giving up anything!!!!! He will be a Free Agent Next year.Again, please think Logically !!!!!

Posted by: joh375 | March 28, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

I'll be blunt......ever since Allan & Shanahan have arrived I have been shaking my head in bewilderment rather than rejoicing in the fact that the Redskins are headed in the right direction - letting Griffin go was a mistake, hiring Grossman and their inability to ATTRACT OLinemen (some candidates chose Cleveland ove DC ?? WTF)........and then the BIGGEST CLUNKER of all....when the skins go 4-12 and have problems all over the park but NONE more so than on the o-Line.......why don't we buy some washed up old hack of a Nose Tackle from Carolina that can't EVEN WALK cause his achilles tendon has torn off his damn leg.......YES, lets CHANGE our entire defense to the 3-4 ???

The thing is - the redskins 4-3 was NOT the redskins weakest point - to change to the 3-4 you need one very important ingredient....Yes, it;s called the RIGHT DAMN PLAYERS - 3-4 linebackers and lineman AINT the same as 4-3 guys.

So to hear Shanahan FINALLY hesitating on changing to a 3-4 front is the FIRST SMART MOVE these too jackasses have made so far

C'mon Shanahan....FIX the damn O-Line, draft lots of BIG GUYS - HAVE DEPTH on BOTH LINES (fool) - DON'T draft a QB and for F*@k sakes DON'T CHANGE to a 3-4 until our Offense Lineman problems have been addressed (even if addressed - it will take at least 2 years for rookie OLinemen to be 100% effective)

There are just way too many other things that need fixing FIRST , before the Redskins change to a 3-4

....the sky is falling.....the sky is falling !!!!

Posted by: tele1 | March 28, 2010 7:08 PM | Report abuse

Hey P1Funk,
Big Ben also has S Holmes and H Ward making outstanding plays when he needs them, and his O line was definitely superior. Many of his pressures/sacks were from his unwillingness to throw the ball away, not from poor pass protection.

Posted by: kenboy1 | March 29, 2010 4:14 AM | Report abuse

More smart moves by Shanahan. If you understand the 3-4, then you know you need a two gap NT. But once you do, the DE's can play one gap or two gap. All depends on the type of DE's and LB's you have. If you play one gap DE's, like Pittsburgh, then Haynesworth at DE, will be almost identical to Haynesworth as a 4-3 DT. So, what's to stop you from moving Haynesworth from 3-4 DE, to 4-3 DT and changing personnel as you go? We have a NT (Kemoeatu) but he is likely only a part time player. So we play both. Andre Carter comes on as a 4-3 DE and Kemoeatu goes off as the 3-4 NT. I think it will cause offenses fits trying to figure it out.

Posted by: pick5 | March 29, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Add a few UMs and UHs and long I got off track pauses and you have Zorn.

Posted by: robjway1 | March 30, 2010 7:23 AM | Report abuse

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