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A Necklace, a Chat and a Poll

Were you wondering about Jim Zorn's neckwear during his postgame presser yesterday? You weren't the only one. Dan Steinberg lives to delve into such matters. In addition to the necklace, there are plenty of other issues to discuss today; I'll be chatting at 11 a.m.

By Cindy Boren  |  December 1, 2008; 10:08 AM ET
 
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Next: Montgomery Putting Injury Behind Him

Comments

LET TAYLOR R.I.P, SEAN HATED HALF THE FANS ANYWAY. HE NEVER WANTED THE SPOT LIGHT AND NOW ALL OF YOU ARE ACTING LIKE YOU KNEW THE GUY. THIS IS NOT A SEAN TAYLOR BLOG.

Posted by: Daggarforracialjustice | December 1, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

I never said Torrence was better than Hall. I said Torrence was better than Tryon. Someone asked a question, and I answered. I apologize if I hurt the feelings of the FO, but for this season, they were wrong on that one. It remains to be seen if Tryon will ever even reach Torrence's level.

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2008 10:15 AM

Then the argument becomes "the FO wasted a 4th round pick". It's damned if you do and damned if you don't. They just picked the safe route since Torrence is a FA in 2 months.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

"I dare any of you to name one game where Torrence made a game changing play."

Leigh Torrence deflected a Kurt Warner pass up high in the air which was subsequently picked off by Carlos Rogers and returned deep into Cardinals territory. We scored on that next possession. That play changed the game. Sparked by Torrence.

Posted by: psps23

Base on your statement that you would have to compare Hall against Torrence since you are talking about playing 3rd CB. In which case you Hall has 2 picks compared to Torrence just hitting the ball. Point goes to Hall. Like I said don't make Torrence out to be more than what he is.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 1, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Whats worse JLC bringing up Torrence again, or all of us harping on that one point out of like 36 points brought up in the post or by us about the team/game/season?

But please keep finding ways to make the writer the story OR even aiding the writer in making himself the story, either way....a waste of space....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 1, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Alex, agreed. Not sure which route to go in FA, DL, or OL.

Can someone post what the amount of money freed up, if JTay were let go salary cap wise??

So if Springs and MWash are shown the door, its roughly a savings of close to 12-15 million correct??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 9:00 AM


Greg:

JT has no salary cap ramifications beyond salary. E.g., they either pay him $8 MM (actually $8.5 MM I think) or they cut him and have no salary cap implications. Springs has $8.5 MM salary in 2009, if he is cut it is $2.5 MM salary cap hit. Marcus Washington gets $6.5 MM, if he is cut it is also about $2.5 MM salary cap hit.

Posted by: zornskins2 | December 1, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse

"Then the argument becomes "the FO wasted a 4th round pick". It's damned if you do and damned if you don't. They just picked the safe route since Torrence is a FA in 2 months."

Posted by: brownwood26

That's fine, it's an acceptable argument. Doesn't mean it was the right choice though. So far, it clearly hasn't worked out. We'll see how it does down the road.

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

brownwood,
Do me a favor and go ahead and hold your breath while you wait for that playoff birth. Chances are we will not be favored in the Eagles game by the time we reach that point too.

"This year's schedule is tougher" = yet another EXCUSE for this team's complete lack of effort and enthusiasim.

I'm not pissed about "an ugly loss". I'm pissed off about a team with a lot of potential pissing it all away and some of its fans continuing to make excuses for them.

Posted by: Soup17 | December 1, 2008 10:14 AM

I didn't guarantee a playoff spot, Soup. I said they're in a good position to get one. Two of the four teams ranked worse than they are offensively are on the remaining schedule and they (in my opinion) better than they were last year. The only problem is the NFC is better than it was last year when 8-8 would have gotten them the 6th seed anyway.

It seems to me that you thought this team was a contender. That's your mistake. I thought this was a middle of the road team that would be hanging around in the playoff picture to the end. That's what we have. I'm disappointed in the way the Skins lost yesterday, but if you take a deep breath and really think about it this team is really fortunate to be 7-5. I choose to view it in that light, not the "why aren't these guys dominating like the Giants do" light.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

SEAN HATED HALF THE FANS ANYWAY.

Posted by: Daggarforracialjustice | December 1, 2008 10:17 AM


Are you Serious?

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 1, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

JT has no salary cap ramifications beyond salary. E.g., they either pay him $8 MM (actually $8.5 MM I think) or they cut him and have no salary cap implications. Springs has $8.5 MM salary in 2009, if he is cut it is $2.5 MM salary cap hit. Marcus Washington gets $6.5 MM, if he is cut it is also about $2.5 MM salary cap hit.

Posted by: zornskins2

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but cutting JT saves $8.5 mil, Springs saves $6 mil, and Wash saves $4 mil?

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

So far, it clearly hasn't worked out

Dude, are you friggin kidding me??

Quantify this with the OBVIOUS DROP IN special teams standings since Torrence was let go. I mean either quantify it, or let it f-ing go.

And I mean that at the "torrence level" in case that was called into question.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Daggarforracialjustice=troll

if you are baited, he wins and you are a fool.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 1, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

cL, I'm with you on Jansen, Moss, and ARE, but not ready to throw the Complete Book of Jokes at Suisham yet. [Though I agree that if he made that FG before the half, the second half would have been different ... statistically, we would have been as much in the game as our past opponents have been ... they dominate the stats, we keep the point differential to three.]

That said, the Skins win one more game, and they've met my REASONABLE preseason expectations. They win two, and they exceed those expectations. Anyone who has been holding their breath for "deep into the playoffs" is unreasonable (including The Owner). Koolaidation. Homerism. aka, the reason to ridicule Skins fans.

Zorn and these guys have delivered an exciting few games up here. We will always have New Orleans, Arizona, and Dallas in Dallas.

We got us a game to win up in Baltimore and, gosh darn it, people like us.

Just to kick the dead horse one more time ... 25 seconds left in the 1st quarter ... 2nd and 10 ... Portis up the gut ... taken down from behind for loss of 2 by Alford ... after being completely ignored by Jansen. As of that play, even in run blocking, Jansen = power rankings.

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 10:28 AM | Report abuse

zornskins, what would the damage be on cutting Jansen?

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

dc, jansen did the same thing on 4th and 1, he just air-blocked, and not at the torrence level either.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

That's fine, it's an acceptable argument. Doesn't mean it was the right choice though. So far, it clearly hasn't worked out. We'll see how it does down the road.

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2008 10:24 AM

"We'll see how it goes down the road." That's all I'm saying. This FO is guilty of many sins and I'm not blaming them for this one. I don't see how special teams is worse for not having Torrence. And cutting a 4th rounder leads to another team signing him even if he makes it to your practice squad. Plus the team would be on the hook for whatever signing bonus he got. Cutting Torrence is free. So it's not about who's better, it's about what makes fiscal sense. Not a hard concept...

I'm now done talking about Torrence. I'm getting to a point where I'm starting to hate the player for the insufferable hype he's getting on this blog...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Overall a spot on analysis of the team at this point. The point on Torrence is just plain stupid however. When did Torrence do MORE than what we have seen of Tryon on Teams? JLC himself ripped the guy several weeks ago for th e exact same "failure" as what Tryon did yesterday. Just a stupid point to keep bringing up.

JLC did point out that the "jury" is still out on the rookies, which is correct, but the two WRs ARE needed right NOW. I did not expect much of them early on, but I DID expect they would be contributing more by now, and therefor I am disappointed.

This team is not as good as I would like them to be, but the reality is this: how good COULD they have been expected to be considering the changes that took place in the offseason. Big picture is that Zorn has done a good job up to the this point, but I agree with JLC that he seems to be unwilling to get particularly creative with the offense. The question has to be WHY?

Posted by: craig2 | December 1, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: craig2 | December 1, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

We only have 4 picks this year:

1st
3rd
5th
6th

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

They are ripping Vinny a NEW ONE.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Dude a caller just called in and tore vinny a new one "Its You, you are the personnel guy you pick the players, dont give excuses that he was a pro-bowl player, you picked him its on you."

Posted by: alex35332 | December 1, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

SEAN HATED HALF THE FANS ANYWAY.

Posted by: Daggarforracialjustice | December 1, 2008 10:17 AM


Are you Serious ?

Yes Sean never wanted to be around no one, portis and moss are lying about there relationship with sean.

Posted by: Daggarforracialjustice | December 1, 2008 10:32 AM | Report abuse

gosh darn it, people like us.

LMAO! Old school SNL. Love it

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 1, 2008 10:33 AM | Report abuse

That said, the Skins win one more game, and they've met my REASONABLE preseason expectations. They win two, and they exceed those expectations. Anyone who has been holding their breath for "deep into the playoffs" is unreasonable (including The Owner). Koolaidation. Homerism. aka, the reason to ridicule Skins fans.

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 10:28 AM

Amen, Sween. And thank you for restoring faith in my fellow bloggers.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

4th who is, proctologits?

Posted by: chrislarry | December 1, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

"As for the three receivers on whom the Redskins spent valuable second-round draft picks this season, someday Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly and tight end Fred Davis may develop. But so far, all three look like busts. Blame injuries, lack of work in training camp or whatever you like, the three have 15 catches for 101 yards."

Hmmmm.....somebody (me) has been saying this for weeks now, and people just keep arguing...

Solution to fix the Skins that will never happen cause Vinny is an idiot:

Cuts:
Taylor (no penalty cause he was traded for and saves 8.5 immediately)
Jansen
Thomas
Kendal (Retirement or cut)
Springs
Washington
Griffin
Daniels
Randel El

Our Players to reup:
Rogers and Hall- you're set at corner for a decade
Demetric Evans - proven capable player
Horton- lock him up long term for a reasonable contract now, cause he's only gonna get more expensive later on

FA to Sign:
Haynesworth (if he makes the pro bowl which is a lock he is guaranteed FA, so through the 8million you save on Taylor at him)
Shaun Cody -second tier good Dend that won't break the bank
Karlos Dansby- good young lb to fill Marcus' spot
Bobby Engram- knows Zorn system, won't command big dollars and is exactly what this team needs a big steady good possession guy that is reliable.
Seth McKinney- Guard Cleveland
Jordan Gross or Mark Tauscher- Good young tackles who won't command huge cash
Mike Goff- Guard good player who's blocked well in San Diego and would cost a fraction of what Thomas costs

Flier FA- look into what it would cost for Housh, it might be too much but if reasonable he'd be worth it.

That's it your only real big money guys there are Dansby and Haynesworth and maybe Housh.


Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

I wonder if Vinny's feeling good about this radio show idea right now . . . perhaps not. Frank Hanrahan's blocking better than Jansen, anyway.

Posted by: mdean3 | December 1, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Wow, the callers are definitely ripping Vinny here.

PSP - your math is right. Saving against the salary cap is going to be important because Campbell will be looking for a big contract with up front money this offseason, and I suspect (listening to Vinny at least) that they still believe he is QB of the future.

DCSween: Janson is a tougher one. The release fee next year is $6.2 MM. His salary is only $3.4 MM. So basically from a cap standpoint it is cheaper to keep him than not.

Posted by: zornskins2 | December 1, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

In the draft, we look like we'll be in the mid teens now so take a guy like Michael Johnson from GA Tech, or Greg Hardy from Ole Miss, or Everett Brown from Florida State all play Dend and at least one should be there when we pick. Then in the 3rd get the best LB available, then after that, nothing but Olinemen and hope you hit on one or two.

That's all extremely doable with the cap flexibility and the only real risky play is a possible Housh signing. Now at WR you have Moss with Engram or Housh opposite, and then Kelly, Thomas, or Engram, with Thrash as your teams guy which would be a stud group there even without signing housh and just getting engram. All of a sudden you're much more solid on the line with Samuels and Rabach still the anchors and Rhinehart, McKinney, and Goff at the guards and either Gross or Tauscher at tackle with Heyer still the swing backup and hopefully one of your late round picks is a decent backup along with Fabini. On the Dline you have Carter, Evans, and potential stud rookie at end along with James, Wilson, and Jackson as developing backups, and at tackle you have a solid group of Haynesworth, Monte, Gholston, and Alexander. At LB your starting Dansby, Fletcher, and McIntosh with Blades, Campbell and your 3rd pick behind them, very solid group and your secondary is still strong with Hall and Rogers as your starters and Smoot as the nickle. That is a very strong lineup and all are very doable moves. But Vinny never will.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Brief aside ... I have met the real daggar, who is skins is more white and pale than Sarah Palin getting asked where Mogadishu is located. This other guy obviously is not the real daggar.

4th and alex, is Vinny at least taking the Gibbs' position ("Its all my fault, I need to do better") or is he "spreading" the blame around?

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Flounder21 I think they need to do what they did last year. Trade out of one and pick up a couple of picks.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 1, 2008 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Dude a caller just called in and tore vinny a new one "Its You, you are the personnel guy you pick the players, dont give excuses that he was a pro-bowl player, you picked him its on you."

Posted by: alex35332 | December 1, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse


I heard it too. Vinny was speachless. He sounds like he wants to crawl under his desk right now.

Posted by: Soup17 | December 1, 2008 10:37 AM | Report abuse

zornskins, what would the damage be on cutting Jansen?

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 10:29 AM |

6.1 million

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2008 10:39 AM | Report abuse

jm, agreed, get a couple of 2's for that 1....at the torrence level....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 10:39 AM | Report abuse

4th who is, proctologits?

Posted by: chrislarry | December 1, 2008 10:34 AM

I don't even want to know what they do!

But, they could be. One dude as Alex was describing was the fierciest of 3 callers in a row, but they were all saying, 'This team's lack of sucess falls on you Vinny. The line, the WRs, The TE we didn't need, the pass rush, Jason Taylor. IT'S ON YOU!!'.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Well now we see why doing a call in radio show was dumb for Vinny....on a personal level...ha classic...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 1, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

"Anyone who has been holding their breath for "deep into the playoffs" is unreasonable"

Sorry, but this is a veteran team that went to the playoffs last year despite being the most injury-plagued team in the league last season (I believe it was quantified in an article on espn.com just before the playoffs). The vast majority of the coaching staff was retained, and the vast majority of the schemes were retained as well (including defense, special teams, as well as the running game). The only real changes were to the passing game (which was the weakest part of the team), and at the very top of the coaching tree (a major change, definitely, but still not an overhaul).

It was perfectly reasonable to believe that a 1 or 2 game increase in wins would be expected with the increase in the health of our starters. Sorry, but I never bought in to the idea that we were a mediocre team coming into this season. We proved it in the first 5 weeks. This isn't a team that was bad and progressed as the season moved along. This is a team that was very, very good, and has regressed as the season has moved along. It's a legit concern.

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

I think it would depend on where they pick in the 1st round. I'm thinking they pick somewhere between 17-21. If there is still a stud DL or OL on the board they should pick. Otherwise maybe try to move back to the late 1st and pick up a 3rd or 4th as well.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 1, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Jansen=6.1 million cap hit
Thomas=13 million cap hit
Kendal (Retirement or cut)no cap hit
Springs=2.5 million cap hit
Washington=2 million cap hit
Griffin=2.5 million cap hit
Daniels=117 thousand cap hit
Randel El=6.7 million cap hit

Z,

That is alot of dead money sorry but they can not do that.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

haha, love it suck it Vinny! you're terrible

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Wouldn't it be great if it was Danny calling in to the show as one of the "It's on you!" callers?

Posted by: driley | December 1, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

I think it was Jim Mora who said it best: "Playoffs?!"

Before the game, I went to the NFL site to look at the matchup and noticed that, prior to yesterday's game, Eli and Campbell's stats were remarkably close, with the exception of TDs scored (Manning 18, Campbell 10) I say this because a friend watching the game kept trying to proclaim the end of Campbell as starting QB. I fear this kind of nonsense may be spreading among the faithful. There are times when Jasno's analysis is a little pedestrian, but he's got it right about there being no passing threat on this team. Somebody explain to me how Thrash, who was a fairly competent returner in a previous Skins era, does nothing remarkable with the Eagles, winds back up here as though somebody figures this guy is a legitimate NFL receiver?

Did Campbell seem to be making some bonehead throws? Sure. But given the fact that he's getting as much time to stay afloat as the captain of a submarine fitted with screen doors, it's understandable.

Zorn isn't in a position to figuratively take a knee for the rest of the season and see what else he's got on the bench. But at the same time,the FO needs to be figuring how they can back up their coach with a legitimate pass blocking O line, a top-flight WR, and D backs who will remind people why No. 21 is honored in that stadium. F.. the math on how to get to the playoffs this year. Just build the team that next season will have guys like Eli and Romo weeping the night before a Skins game.

Posted by: InRealAmerica | December 1, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

psp,

everyone is a year older as well, and that is not good for the O-Line. The O-Line was better last year.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

"Anyone who has been holding their breath for "deep into the playoffs" is unreasonable"

Sorry, but this is a veteran team that went to the playoffs last year despite being the most injury-plagued team in the league last season (I believe it was quantified in an article on espn.com just before the playoffs). The vast majority of the coaching staff was retained, and the vast majority of the schemes were retained as well (including defense, special teams, as well as the running game). The only real changes were to the passing game (which was the weakest part of the team), and at the very top of the coaching tree (a major change, definitely, but still not an overhaul).

It was perfectly reasonable to believe that a 1 or 2 game increase in wins would be expected with the increase in the health of our starters. Sorry, but I never bought in to the idea that we were a mediocre team coming into this season. We proved it in the first 5 weeks. This isn't a team that was bad and progressed as the season moved along. This is a team that was very, very good, and has regressed as the season has moved along. It's a legit concern.

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Amen, psps23. And thank you for restoring faith in my fellow bloggers. ;)

Posted by: Soup17 | December 1, 2008 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Jansen=6.1 million cap hit post June 1st cut
Thomas=13 million cap hit --will be back
Kendal (Retirement or cut)no cap hit --will retire
Springs=2.5 million cap hit --will be back
Washington=2 million cap hit --will be released
Griffin=2.5 million cap hit --will be back
Daniels=117 thousand cap hit --cut
Randel El=6.7 million cap hit --will be back

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 1, 2008 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Well now we see why doing a call in radio show was dumb for Vinny....on a personal level...ha classic...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 1, 2008 10:42 AM

You don't give Vinny any credit for manning up and facing his critics? Takes more guts to do that than most of us posters up here have.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 1, 2008 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Boy, it's ugly up here today. That extra point thing is the most embarrassing thing I have seen all year. Due mostly to our lack of depth and slight shot at the playoffs, I don't know how a coach can threaten most of our starters at this point, with the exception of Jansen and ARE/Thrash, and Smoot/Springs, but something has to be done to get these guys fired up. I can remember guys like Thiesmann, Charles Mann, and Gary Clark who would not accept this "brand" of football, and would be in peoples faces on the sidelines as well as on the field. I'm not off the Jason Campbell bandwagon yet, but I am starting to lose faith quickly. I know it's not all his fault, but he seems to be regressing. Baltimore is going to be tough.....another week against an elite defense is going to take some serious big plays to keep us in the game. There probably won't be more than one long drive against those guys, but hopefully our own defense can keep us in the game. I would like to see Heyer in there for Jansen.....the big reason Jansen got his job back was because he's supposedly a better run blocker......haven't seen any of that lately. Good to see that The Angelo is playing so well. Nice pickup there. Flaccoo is pretty good, but seems to get picked off pretty regularly; maybe Hall will take one back for 6 this week. Let's hoe that there were so many dropped balls because of the wet conditions.....maybe they can hold on to some third down balls this week. One last thing; I really hope that they bring in a kicker and punter for a tryout this week. What a joke.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | December 1, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

What's the difference between this year's chances for a playoff run and last year's?

Last year we had two veteran possession receivers in Caldwell and McCardell who made third down catches. The other main difference? Oh, yeah, we had a second string qb who played fearlessly.

Posted by: driley | December 1, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Flounder,

I know you weren't saying this was an 8-8 team before the season started. You know as well as I do that this team had (has) the potential for big things this year.

It's simply been disappointing to watch the offense get worse as the season has moved along. And THAT is not a reasonable expectation, for any team.

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

4th and alex, is Vinny at least taking the Gibbs' position ("Its all my fault, I need to do better") or is he "spreading" the blame around?

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

He is not taking the blame at all, He is trying his best to throw the rest of the team under the bus with out blaming anyone.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 1, 2008 10:53 AM | Report abuse

This is a team that was very, very good, and has regressed as the season has moved along. It's a legit concern.

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2008 10:42 AM

I disagree. The offense is stalling because its MVP is about on crutches and the line is worn down. All the pounding done to win those early games is hurting them now. That's the downside of having a team this old on offense.

And folks who thought this team would be better than last year was fooling themselves or drinking alcoholic Redskin Kool-aid. This team was facing a new offense and a new head coach and did virtually nothing to improve from a personnel standpoint. Anything over 8 wins this year was gravy. This team got a lot of hopes up after the 4-1 start and now the natives are pissed. This team needs to be revamped on the lines before we can give any real thought to being contenders.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2008 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Name the place TE, I never back down to my critics...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 1, 2008 10:53 AM | Report abuse

I wonder if Vinny's feeling good about this radio show idea right now . . . perhaps not. Frank Hanrahan's blocking better than Jansen, anyway.

Posted by: mdean3 | December 1, 2008 10:36 AM |

So So True. Henrahan is Vinny's Bullet Proof Vest right now.

Sween - Vinny isn't blaming, he's making excuses for the most part. Some I agree with and some I don't......

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

zjfr2

I think we are thinking on the same line. This is doable. I wouldn't go for Hozamamilli in FA nor Johnson in the draft. However the approach to the offseason is sound.

Posted by: TWISI | December 1, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

TE, the difference is we all get ripped by one another up here all the time and unlike vinny we have no call screeners and we actually respond to accusations against one another.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 1, 2008 10:56 AM | Report abuse

One player I'd look out for on the "cut" list is Fred Smoot. Very underwhelming this year, and has just been demoted to #4 on the depth chart. Prior to this week, I had been saying that if Hall signs, Springs would be gone. I'm amending that and will now say that if Hall signs, Smoot should be gone. Do we have his salary cap ramifications?

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

wah, wah, wah, the problem is you relied on portis and cambell relies on portis because he cant play unless its play action, now that you wore portis down you have nothing. Hey we could use a backup maybe cambell will come and hold romo's jock for us. So over-rated, you will lose this week in baltimore, the only win you have left might be the bengals and thats not a garuntee. LOL!!!!

Posted by: Dfan | December 1, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Listening to Vinny makes me worried.

He is sticking to the party line that the difference in the game was execution on just a few plays - dropped balls on 3rd down, a couple key penalties, etc.

While there is no doubt that things would have been better without these mistakes, understand that the Giants made plenty of mistakes too. They just have the firepower to overcome it.

The idea that it was just unlucky or 2 or 3 plays is worrisome because they were dominated and lost by 16. It wasn't close at all. But if you have this optimistic view that you just got unlucky you won't address the underlying problems - you will just hope you have better 'luck' next week. After losing 3 of 4 you need to be realizing that 'luck' has nothing to do with an offense that can't score 20 points.

And yes I agree with others that the offense has gotten worse as season went on. My only theory there is the predictability of play calling plus JC confidence issue.

Posted by: zornskins2 | December 1, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Memo to the redskins front office

Sign Jason Campbell to a long term deal NOW!!!!! Yeah he has a year and a half left on his deal. BUT Pay him!!!!!! Pay him now!!!!!!!!Don't let him get away!!!!

- Jason La Canfora, Washington Post

Posted by: dealer1 | December 1, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

I see the DB's for next season looking like this
1. Rogers
2. Hall
3. Smoot
4. ?
5. Tryon

Posted by: alex35332 | December 1, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

No to Housh. Dude is 30 and you'll have the same problem you have with Jason Taylor right now. Plus he's a pouter when you lose. I'm holding out hope for Boldin...he's the only big name guy worth it.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

psps23

The only problem is if you let smmot go then you'd need to draft a CB in round 1 or round 3 as it stand today. Not feeling that. Getting CB's in FA is pricey even for an average CB.

Posted by: TWISI | December 1, 2008 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Complete list of cost for players next year the first number is what there salary is the second number is what it will cost to cut them.

If they have no number by there name they are not signed for next year essentially they are FA's.

Player 2009 R Fee
Jason Taylor $ 8,500 $ -
Shawn Springs $ 8,483 $ 2,483
Marcus Washington $ 6,520 $ 2,020
Cornelius Griffin $ 6,166 $ 2,549
Clinton Portis $ 6,029 $ 15,337
Jon Jansen $ 3,413 $ 6,188
Chris Samuels $ 9,378 $ 9,492
Randy Thomas $ 5,586 $ 13,052
Santana Moss $ 6,753 $ 7,217
Casey Rabach $ 3,650 $ 1,300
London Fletcher $ 4,350 $ 6,300
Pete Kendall
Chris Cooley $ 3,053 $ 11,167
Andre Carter $ 6,598 $ 6,825
Antwaan Randle El $ 6,119 $ 6,763
Phillip Daniels $ 2,057 $ 114
Laron Landry $ 5,428 $ 7,573
Fred Smoot $ 4,150 $ 4,200
Carlos Rogers $ 2,441 $ 3,873
Jason Campbell $ 1,813 $ 1,031
Ladell Betts $ 2,033 $ 3,067
Roger McIntosh $ 1,085 $ 455
Todd Collins $ 2,500 $ 2,500
DeAngelo Hall
Devin Thomas $ 1,073 $ 2,063
James Thrash $ 945 $ 100
Mike Sellers $ 920 $ 350
Demetric Evans
Khary Campbell
Todd Yoder $ 887 $ 117
Fred Davis $ 835 $ 1,350
Rock Cartwright $ 1,045 $ 200
Malcolm Kelly $ 799 $ 1,241
Erasmus James $ 1,003 $ -
Shaun Suisham
Anthony Montgomery
Ethan Albright
Jason Fabini
Reed Doughty
Kedric Golston
Justin Geisinger
Chad Rinehart $ 538 $ 458
Mike Green
Shaun Alexander
Alfred Fincher
Ryan Plackemeier $ 535 $ -
H.B. Blades $ 487 $ 54
Justin Tryon $ 492 $ 322
Stephon Heyer $ 463 $ 3
Chris Wilson $ 460 $ -
Lorenzo Alexander $ 460 $ -
Matt Sinclair $ 460 $ -
Kareem Moore $ 411 $ 78
Colt Brennan $ 409 $ 73
Rob Jackson $ 396 $ 33
Chris Horton $ 394 $ 27
Alex Buzbee $ 460 $ -

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2008 11:01 AM | Report abuse

PSP:

Smoot is another salary cap headache. Next year, you can either pay him $4.150 MM or cut him and have a $4.20 MM cap hit. Uggh.

Posted by: zornskins2 | December 1, 2008 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Flound, thanks.

Ugh, on RThomas, and Spring, and MWash are definetly gone, based on 10 mil in savings.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 11:04 AM | Report abuse

One player I'd look out for on the "cut" list is Fred Smoot. Very underwhelming this year, and has just been demoted to #4 on the depth chart. Prior to this week, I had been saying that if Hall signs, Springs would be gone. I'm amending that and will now say that if Hall signs, Smoot should be gone. Do we have his salary cap ramifications?

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2008 10:57 AM


YES YES YES. Cut Smoooot. Keep Springs as 3rd Safety/CB. Tryon will move to #4 and we can get #5 as a ST guy!


................

Did Vinny just have his 10 year old daughter CALL??!?!?!? WTF?!?!?

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Just heard this women caller talking garbage on the vinny show. Why isn't she washing dishes.

Posted by: Daggarforracialjustice | December 1, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

I see Randy going nowhere.

You can designate up to 2 players as post June 1st cuts.

1. Jansen
2. Smooot

REMINDER - 2009 is the LAST CAP YEAR. So, we may have an ugly CAP number because there are certain things you can't push back, and if I remember correct, that MAY include 'post June 1st' cuts.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Greg,

You can't cut Thomas which sucks, but there are enough moves you can make to clear up space to go after some good FA's.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2008 11:09 AM | Report abuse

I don't see Randy getting cut, he is still a serviceable RG, not the pro-bowler he once was but better than 70% of the other guards out there, playing by JJ is making him look bad though.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 1, 2008 11:10 AM | Report abuse

REMINDER - 2009 is the LAST CAP YEAR. So, we may have an ugly CAP number because there are certain things you can't push back, and if I remember correct, that MAY include 'post June 1st' cuts.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 11:09 AM |

4th,

This will happen only if the owners opt out of the collective bargaining agreement, but if they do that I do not think that effects 2009 cuts because it will not have happened yet. So I still think everything stays the same until they make that choice.

I believe once the cap is gone the players will never agree to another one.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2008 11:13 AM | Report abuse

All game I was praying that someone would knock Amani Toomer's head off.....haven't seen that amount of showboating after a catch (every catch, by the way) since Michael Irvin. Nobody stepped up. Even our defense could use some fire under their butts. That could take them to the next level. Seems to be a good zone team, but nobody is scared of a single player on the d. Everyone is just kind of medium.....

Same thing for A. Pierce. That shot of him on the bench at the end of the game just giggling to himself made me want to puke. Why nobody on our offensive line has ever pancaked that guy in 4 years or whatever it is now is beyond me. The really sad thing is that the Giants really are in a tier that is way above the Redskins. I don't think that the NFC has anyone that's going to give them anything to keep them out of the super bowl. Unless Manning gets hurt. Say what you will about that guy, and his "numbers" that are "right around Jason Campbell's", but he (IMO) has become one of the best qb's in the game right now. Not sure what would happen if you put him behind an O-line like the skins, but if you look at his passes, they are most often right where they are supposed to be, and his receivers don't seem to need to adjust to the ball, like ours seem to. Sums a bishez......Bumpassez!

Posted by: dlhaze1 | December 1, 2008 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Vinny's call screeners are completely stopping all the negative calls right now, and only the larry michael drones are getting through.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 1, 2008 11:14 AM | Report abuse

I don't see Randy getting cut, he is still a serviceable RG, not the pro-bowler he once was but better than 70% of the other guards out there, playing by JJ is making him look bad though.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 1, 2008 11:10 AM |

It is cheaper to keep Thomas and he is OK, you need to replace Kendall, Jansen and Rabach next year for sure I think you can get another year or two out of Samuels and Thomas.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2008 11:16 AM | Report abuse

While Smoot hasn't been amazing he's had to start cause springs has been hurt, Smoot would be a very very good nickle corner and if you're not gonna replace him with equal talent why carry his dead money?

Springs, James, Taylor, Griff, and Washington save you $20mil in cap space, plenty of room to do all the moves I was talking about and sign your massive 4 player draft class.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

It really amazes me

it took until we lost to the New York Giants

for yall to meltdown like this?


Did yall really think we would beat the Giants yesterday?


Have yall paid any attention to this team this year?


We're a solid team, but come on.


and the Leigh Torrence remark in the last post is effing laughable. That's just pitiful.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 1, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

"but if you look at his passes, they are most often right where they are supposed to be, and his receivers don't seem to need to adjust to the ball, like ours seem to."

Completely disagree. A number of times yesterday his WRs had to make difficult adjustments to make receptions. Steve Smith had to pull a couple almost straight off the ground (one that needed replay to be deemed complete), Hixon made a great diving catch on a throw to his back shoulder, and Toomer always seems to be able to bring in balls that are just thrown around his vicinity. Manning, like a lot of other great QBs in this league, has receivers that make plays for him.

Campbell has nothing near that. Moss is the only player with a history of making those types of catches, and he hasn't done that in a long time. Even Cooley needs to be drilled in the numbers in order to make a reception (he's great after the catch, but his hands are just average). If Campbell isn't picture perfect in his throws, they won't be completed (and even if he is perfect, there's no guarantee with these WRs). Our WR core is even worse than I thought coming into this year. Campbell has no help right now from anywhere in the passing game.

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Randy Thomas is not a/the problem. The weak link in the chain is Jansen, but Rabach has also fallen off in actual blocking (I can't say either way re: his blocking calls from the line ... I thought JC was supposed to do that this year anyway). Kendall seems 100% solid ... its just that his body is falling apart.

dcsween's power ranking (yes, I said it) of the Skins O-line (from first to worst):

1. Kendall
2. Samuels
3. Thomas
4. Rabach
5. Jansen

By which I mean, they could do worse than putting Heyer in there right NOW (i.e., worse being who they do have there).

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Oh, we melt down after every loss.
And after most of the wins too.

Posted by: daggar | December 1, 2008 11:22 AM | Report abuse

4th,

This will happen only if the owners opt out of the collective bargaining agreement, but if they do that I do not think that effects 2009 cuts because it will not have happened yet. So I still think everything stays the same until they make that choice.

I believe once the cap is gone the players will never agree to another one.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2008 11:13 AM

Flounder - The owners ALREADY opted out. Next year IS the last CAPPED YEAR. Go back and look it up.

2009 is the last Capped Years and 2010 is the last year of the CBA because of the opt-out......

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 11:24 AM | Report abuse

It's not every loss. It's built up over a while.

4 game win streak offensive production: 29, 24, 26, and 23 points scored.

Last 4 games offensive production: 6, 10, 20, and 7 points scored.

Things are moving in the wrong direction.

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2008 11:25 AM | Report abuse


+++ to bring up personnel issues IN SEASON is moot and pointless and to do it EVERY WEEK is sophmoric.

Amen bro...Amen....


Posted by: BeantownGreg


Look Beantown, this isn't an official Vinny Cerrato site. In season personnel issues are certainly on the table because personnel issues are the biggest reason why this team isn't better than it is.

MOST the players (holdovers) are playing their hearts out, many at levels higher than last year.

They HAVE NOT gotten any assistance whatsoever on "Personnel" issues with the single exception of Chris Horton.

DIG THIS: Of the TEN PLAYERS drafted, of all the FAs brought in, of all the trades and waiver wire acquisitions the FO has brought the Redskins--where exactly have they improved, other than strong safety?

NOT the Oline.

CERTAINLY not WR

NOT Punting

NOT TE

NOT DL

NOT LB

NOT Special teams

"Maybe" corner, if Hall works out.

SAFETY.

Moot and Pointless, my patoot.


Posted by: TheCork | December 1, 2008 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 11:26 AM | Report abuse

That said, I see no reason to replace Rabach or Thomas or Samuels. See if Kendall is willing to go one more season (slap a signing bonus and a ham sandwich on the table) ... if not, then Rinehart by default ... and get him Bugeled up ASAP. Then Heyer for Jansen. And pick one of those OG/OT types with one of the post-first round picks (or free agency). Samuels plays through pain more and more lately, so he is the guy to target for replacement in terms of skill set.

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 11:26 AM | Report abuse

rember last year when all of us were complaining about the pass pro and the running game and the dropped passes???? if you don't then go back and pull up your posts.

and then jc got hurt and the todd ball started and the rest is history.

to save the season they need a qb change. to save this franchise they need a new GM.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 1, 2008 11:28 AM | Report abuse

cork, walk out to your garage, start your car, and let the motor purr you to sleep please......

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 11:30 AM | Report abuse

The Truth sees that the Georgia Bulldogs are ranked number 1 in college football. The Truth smiles. The Dawgs are headed for the national championship. The Truth rejoices.

Posted by: The Truth | July 31, 2008 10:04 AM

Truth, The "University" of Georgia has nothing. Any run they might have for the national championship will end on November 29, in Athens, Georgia, when the Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets put an end to their hopes.

Posted by: Talent Evaluator | July 31, 2008 10:10 AM

The Truth laughs at the Yellow Jackets. If they should ever win in Athens, The Truth will personally push a peanut from Athens to Atlanta with his nose. The Truth is allergic to peanuts and will never have to touch one in his life.

Posted by: The Truth | July 31, 2008 10:17 AM


Hey, Truth, get down on your hands and knees and start rolling that peanut to Atlanta, you fraud.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 1, 2008 11:31 AM | Report abuse

+++Then the argument becomes "the FO wasted a 4th round pick". It's damned if you do and damned if you don't. They just picked the safe route since Torrence is a FA in 2 months.

Posted by: brownwood26+++

I agree. "the FO wasted a 4th round pick." Not to mention three second rounds picks.* We're damned when the FO does, that's the problem.

Since when is a "bad pick" the safe route

Funny thing about guys who are FAs in two months. You can RE-SIGN THEM.

*Let me save the Redskins Park Posters the trouble of responding: Yeah yeah, I know those three 2nd rounders will all be all-pros NEXT year, it's too soon to call them busts, Vinny's a genius, etc...

Posted by: TheCork | December 1, 2008 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Wait - how can there only be 4 draft picks next year?

Yes #2 is gone for Taylor. But the other pick(#6) as part of the deal I thought was 2010. And #4 is gone from Kendall trade. So I thought that they would have #1, #3, #5,#6, and #7. So 5 picks not four? What am I missing? Not like 5 picks is great but better than 4 picks.

Posted by: zornskins2 | December 1, 2008 11:36 AM | Report abuse

*Let me save the Redskins Park Posters the trouble of responding: Yeah yeah, I know those three 2nd rounders will all be all-pros NEXT year, it's too soon to call them busts, Vinny's a genius, etc...

Posted by: TheCork | December 1, 2008 11:31 AM

Late me save you the trouble of even posting. "Same old, same old."

From now on, why don't you save yourself the effort and just write "Cork Post #1." And, when you have a #2, write that out. We'd be interested to see if you actually have more than one thought inside you.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 1, 2008 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Well put Cork, and beantown, I'm sure you'll be quick to point to the Hall move as good and that was an in season personnel move so obviously in season personnel matters. And for all the wait and see the seasons not over people, you guys are nuts, B-more is gonna kill us just like Pitt and the G-men did, we can't hang with legit defenses, heck we can barely beat bad defenses (Browns, Lions, Seahawks) and our only reliable offensive weapon is hurt. I hope they rest Portis this week, the team's only shot is if he can be healthy enough that they win their last three and get some help with tie breakers and maybe just maybe they can once again limp into the playoffs and all of you on here will deem this season a success. But even that is unlikely, Atlanta has a very easy schedule and only has to go 3-1 to get to 11 wins and Carolina and Tampa just have to go .500 to get to 11. More than likely there will be one or two of them at 12 wins and all three will get to 11. We aren't going to the playoffs folks, just accept it.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 11:37 AM | Report abuse

What am I missing? Not like 5 picks is great but better than 4 picks.

Posted by: zornskins2 | December 1, 2008 11:36 AM

Erasmus James. And you're not the only one who's missing him. The Redskins seem to be missing him, too.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 1, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

"So I thought that they would have #1, #3, #5,#6, and #7. So 5 picks not four? What am I missing? Not like 5 picks is great but better than 4 picks."

Posted by: zornskins2

Erasmus James for a #7.

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

sorry talent devaluator, but fake quotes don't impress me

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 1, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

"From now on, why don't you save yourself the effort and just write "Cork Post #1."

Allow me to take this one step further, just stop posting all-together....how about that? This team brings you nothing but misery, so do us ALL a favor, and go play in traffic...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Beantown, is it possible to disagree/argue without calls for suicide from the combatants....

I happen to enjoy both Cork's and your posts and find plenty to like/agree with/get pissed at/laugh at/roll eyes over/and change my perspective...here is to hoping you both live.....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 1, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

4th,

You are correct I got this article which goes into good detail about what this actually means, it is not as good as I thought it would be for the players or the owners.


http://www.milehighreport.com/2008/5/20/523809/nfl-owners-opt-out-of-cba


Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

#7 goes to Minny for the James trade

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Samuels plays through pain more and more lately, so he is the guy to target for replacement in terms of skill set.

Posted by: DCSween


Sweeny - Have you seen Samuels CAP #? It's HUGE. ALOT of future gaurantees......

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 11:40 AM | Report abuse

cl, sorry about that, corky just gets under me skin.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 11:43 AM | Report abuse

"dcsween's power ranking (yes, I said it) of the Skins O-line (from first to worst):

1. Kendall
2. Samuels
3. Thomas
4. Rabach
5. Jansen

By which I mean, they could do worse than putting Heyer in there right NOW (i.e., worse being who they do have there).

Posted by: dcsween"


Okay, if you could get a stud Center in the first round (Alex Mack) would you take him in the first?

Or would you get a very good replacement for Jansen and let the rookie and Heyer see who can take over that spot?

If you take a replacement for Jansen in the first, there's still about 2 servicable centers that will be available int he third round, but neither is as much a given as Alex Mack.


I say we draft Alex Mack with our first, I really want this guy if he's available.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 1, 2008 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Why do the eternal (moronic) optimists about Vinny and this front office think we aren't allowed to and should die for reminding you once again of all the mistakes they have made as another season goes down the tubes because they decided to ignore the core of this team and failed to improve the positions they chose to throw more resources at. Someday maybe Snyderatto will figure out that NFL games aren't won (especially in the NFC east) at the wide receiver and corner positions.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Samuels plays through pain more and more lately, so he is the guy to target for replacement in terms of skill set.

Posted by: DCSween


Sweeny - Have you seen Samuels CAP #? It's HUGE. ALOT of future gaurantees......

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 11:40 AM |

Actually 4th Samuels will cost you the same to keep him or let him go 9.4, I posted a chart earlier in this post.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2008 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Erasmus James for a #7.

I thought that was base on how much he plays.

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 1, 2008 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Truth how bout UGA huh? Most gutless squad in college football. You still must be siked about that preseason poll, do they give trophies for that?

And those are not fake quotes, I am sure TE will provide the links momentarily...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 1, 2008 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Erasmus James for a #7.

I thought that was base on how much he plays.

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 1, 2008 11:45 AM |

As long as he made the roster it was there's

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2008 11:46 AM | Report abuse

sorry talent devaluator, but fake quotes don't impress me

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 1, 2008 11:39 AM

What does impress you? How about 45-42? Did that impress you? How about the Georgia Bulldogs falling to #17 in the AP Poll -- two slots behind the Yellow Jackets? Were you impressed by that?

Now get down on your hands and knees and start rolling that peanut.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 1, 2008 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Man I'm starving I which my boss would hurry back with my 5 guys.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Vinny just said "you can't worry about what other teams are doing, you have to worry about your own house".

That would be great, but it has been years since we were able to do that.

Posted by: Soup17 | December 1, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Since when is a "bad pick" the safe route

Funny thing about guys who are FAs in two months. You can RE-SIGN THEM.

Posted by: TheCork | December 1, 2008 11:31 AM

Since when is a bad pick established before the guy can finish his first year? I guess Eli Manning's a bust since he sucked his first year...the few games he played.

And the even funnier things about FAs is that anyone can sign them. If Torrence is so great they'll resign him in the offseason. Going the last 6 games without him isn't the difference in winning and losing. Just pretend he's on IR if it makes you feel better.

NOW ENOUGH ABOUT TORRENCE! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, MOVE THE F*CK ON!

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 1, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Actually 4th Samuels will cost you the same to keep him or let him go 9.4, I posted a chart earlier in this post.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2008 11:44 AM

Thanks. then it only makes sense to keep him........

I am starting to feel sorry for Henrahan. I know they gotta be paying him good (well)....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 11:50 AM | Report abuse

dealer, as has been stated on this blog far too many times, Collins ONLY excelled last season because he was playing in Saunders offense. He WILL NOT excel in Zorn's offense.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 1, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Vinny is getting pounded, some guy just told him, he is only doing the show because Snyder is making him.

Said Parcells is a genius for getting rid of JT and getting a 2nd and 6th from us.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

+++cork, walk out to your garage, start your car, and let the motor purr you to sleep please......

Posted by: BeantownGreg +++


Ah, the old "suggest Suicide Ploy." Indicative of your imagination, humanity, and no doubt, the mood around your cubicle at Redskin Park.

Were you the guy who said "Vinny, forget the lines, grab that TE from USC?" Is that why you're so glum, bunky?

Get some therapy, you lickspiggot Jabernowl.

Posted by: TheCork | December 1, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

+++cork, walk out to your garage, start your car, and let the motor purr you to sleep please......

Posted by: BeantownGreg +++


Ah, the old "suggest Suicide Ploy." Indicative of your imagination, humanity, and no doubt, the mood around your cubicle at Redskin Park.

Were you the guy who said "Vinny, forget the lines, grab that TE from USC?" Is that why you're so glum, bunky?

Get some therapy, you lickspiggot Jabernowl.

Posted by: TheCork | December 1, 2008 11:53 AM

Translation: Cork Post #1.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 1, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

"Truth how bout UGA huh? Most gutless squad in college football. You still must be siked about that preseason poll, do they give trophies for that?

And those are not fake quotes, I am sure TE will provide the links momentarily...

Posted by: chrislarry "

uhhh, why would I say I was allergic to peanuts when I'm not? Obviously a fake post, sorry.


and yes, I'll still LOL @ Georgia Tech any day of the week and twice on Saturdays.

Great job, now yall are only 1-7 in the last 8 years. And yall are still losing the all-time series.

but congratulations on the big win

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 1, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Vinny is getting pounded, some guy just told him, he is only doing the show because Snyder is making him.

Said Parcells is a genius for getting rid of JT and getting a 2nd and 6th from us.

Posted by: Flounder21

Flounder, for those of us unable to listen to the show, PLEASE tell us Vinny's response to the Parcells comment.

Posted by: TheCork | December 1, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

http://www.milehighreport.com/2008/5/20/523809/nfl-owners-opt-out-of-cba

Flound - Did you notice that this was written by 'TheSportsGuru'????

Could it be he has finally been outed?

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Vinny has destroyed his house, that is the same reasoning he's used for years and is the fundamental reason he sucks. Who cares that Todd Wade is an injury prone career tackle he had two good games at tackle so we can let dockery go and move wade to guard. Who cares that Archuletta was declining in St. Louis and everyone knew he couldn't cover, we'll make him the richest safety in NFL history. Who cares that the niners, THE NINERS!, didn't really want Lloyd and thought he was a malcontent we'll trade for him and extend his contract before he ever takes a snap, who cares that the NINERS didn't think Carter was worth resigning, we'll make him one of the higher paid ends in the league cause he's a finesse undersized end playing in the East, who cares that Parcells (recognized as a brilliant personnel guy) the day he walked in the door couldn't get rid of Taylor fast enough we'll knee-jerk react and trade for him which was necessary because Phillip Daniels got hurt again after we again ignored the Dline in the draft, and lots not keep any veteran talent other than James Thrash at receiver even though its the hardest position to successfully draft and takes a while for guys to develop, and lets go spend a second on another tight end to ride the pine or play part time behind our Pro Bowl tight end.....and the list just goes on and on. Vinny continually does the unconventional and pretends like he's smarter than everybody else for doing it and then acts all shocked and disappointed when it doesn't work. He just doesn't get it and never will.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Flounder, for those of us unable to listen to the show, PLEASE tell us Vinny's response to the Parcells comment.

Posted by: TheCork | December 1, 2008 11:56 AM |

He said nothing hammerhan changed the subject.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Complete list of cost for players next year the first number is what there salary is the second number is what it will cost to cut them.

If they have no number by there name they are not signed for next year essentially they are FA's.

Player 2009 R Fee
Jason Taylor $ 8,500 $ -


Really? Costs the team NOTHING to cut The Tango King? That's a no-brainer.

Posted by: TheCork | December 1, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse

"What does impress you? How about 45-42? Did that impress you? How about the Georgia Bulldogs falling to #17 in the AP Poll -- two slots behind the Yellow Jackets? Were you impressed by that?

Now get down on your hands and knees and start rolling that peanut.

Posted by: talent_evaluator "

again, link it up


congratulations on the big win

it's funny to see how much a win can mean to someone in this "rivalry". Last year, and the year before, and the year before, and the year before, and the year before, and the year before, and the year before I was never this excited as you are.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 1, 2008 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Sweeny - Have you seen Samuels CAP #? It's HUGE. ALOT of future gaurantees......

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 11:40 AM

I'm not suggesting letting Samuels go anywhere. He's #2 on dcsween's Skins O-line power rankings (yes, I said it). I'm just saying that forethought suggests that this is the season to think about who will replace him if/when he does get hurt. [And figuring that Rinehart and Heyer ... maybe Geisinger ... are returning]. Not sure how much mileage Fabini has left either. It might be that the Skins don't go back for an OT until they do REALLY badly (and thus pick really early in the first round where the good OTs get picked) ... which obviously won't be this season.

Posted by: dcsween | December 1, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

z,

I think we have already agreed that most of the moves you just mentioned happend while Gibbs was in charge of personnel.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 1, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Z-Jack, I am skipping all of your posts, even though I often agree, until you learn how to hit the return key and break up that block text my man...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 1, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

but congratulations on the big win

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 1, 2008 11:56 AM

And congratulations on your graciousness in defeat. Must be difficult -- start out as pre-season number one and then lose the final game to Georgia Tech and fall to #17. But get used to it: Georgia Tech is here to stay. They're invading and conquering Georgia like Russia did.

Now get down on your hands and knees and start rolling that peanut across Georgia.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 1, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse

"Get some therapy, you lickspiggot Jabernowl"

My second favorite post of the day...no one but corky knows what it means, and he pats himself on the back, because thats a great insult in his 'world'...

My first being "at the Torrence level"....

Cork, being that you're such a big fan of Eddie Royal, and Desean Jackson, why not go root for those teams??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse

From Flounder's list above, here is my Christmas Cut List:

Jason Taylor $ 8,500 $ -
Marcus Washington $ 6,520 $ 2,020
Jon Jansen $ 3,413 $ 6,188
Casey Rabach $ 3,650 $ 1,300
Phillip Daniels $ 2,057 $ 114
Fred Smoot $ 4,150 $ 4,200
James Thrash $ 945 $ 100
Todd Yoder $ 887 $ 117
Erasmus James $ 1,003 $ -

Cutting these guys would save approximatley $14.7 mil on the cap. James and Daniels have literally been useless for the team this season (though not really Daniels' fault). Yoder should be able to be replaced by Davis. Thrash can easily be upgraded. Washington and JT have essentially been non-existent to the team's success, and equivalent replacements can be had for much cheaper (equivalent to how they've contributed this season).

Smoot, Jansen, and Rabach have played significant snaps this season, and finding full-time replacements may be difficult. However, these guys don't seem to be going anywhere but down as they get older, and this may be the time to cut them. Hopefully Hall can be re-signed to replace Smoot. Jansen and Rabach may need to be replaced via FA (if Heyer isn't deemed a future starter).

Upcoming FAs I'd like to see re-signed. Only one of these should command serious money:

DeAngelo Hall
Demetric Evans
Anthony Montgomery
Kedric Golston
Justin Geisinger
Alfred Fincher
Reed Doughty

If the guys listed are released and the FAs signed, that leaves 41 players on the roster. We have 4 draft picks. That would leave 8 players to be replaced via FA, 3 of which may need to be starters (C, RT, OLB).

That's my vote in this irrational, post-game, pissed-off state of mind.

Posted by: psps23 | December 1, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

I am starting to feel sorry for Henrahan. I know they gotta be paying him good (well)....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 1, 2008 11:50 AM

Well paid? In radio?! HA! Thanks for the much needed laugh today, 4th.

jack- For the love of SJK man, break up your posts with some space. [Think 'enter' button, followed by 'enter' button again, then resume diatribe].
It's unreadable.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 1, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

gosh darn it, people like us.

LMAO! Old school SNL. Love it

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage

And possibly a reference to a future senator from the great State of Minnesota.

Posted by: TheCork | December 1, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

I don't post here often but as a looong time skins fan here goes:

The team will finish 9-7 and miss the playoffs. Not a bad year for a first year coach. We will lose next week but finish the season winning 2 of 3.

That TE in the 2nd round was a mistake. They had a DE for the stealing and we let him go.

This team has no pass rush. The DB's are good but you can't leave them on an island all day. Manning had hours to throw the ball.

Our O-line is getting way to old to hold up against the Defenses we are playing against. Giants, Pitt, Balt (upcoming), to name a few. We need an infusion of youngsters playing. Now's the time to see what they can do.

The Giants are the best team in football right now because of the lines. They absolutly control both sides of the ball, and not just against us (How did they lose to the Browns).

We need a great draft this year. We must get Offensive and Defensive lineman only. Forget everything else.

Campbell needs to step up. Forget the stats he needs to lead.

Fire away.

Posted by: jandlml | December 1, 2008 12:09 PM | Report abuse

+++"Get some therapy, you lickspiggot Jabernowl"-_CORK

My second favorite post of the day...no one but corky knows what it means, and he pats himself on the back, because thats a great insult in his 'world'...+++

You're as unknowledgeable about vocabulary as you are about football. Those are perfectly good words, and I'm not the person who put them in the book in which I found them. Books--try one sometime. You might like it.

++++Cork, being that you're such a big fan of Eddie Royal, and Desean Jackson, why not go root for those teams??

Posted by: BeantownGreg +++

Beans, you forgot to add "neener-neener." Yes, your comment certainly excuses the inefficiencies of the front office for not picking one of those guys (or Donnie Avery or Martellus bennet) when they had a chance.

As those on this board not fond of schoolyard taunts realizes, I mention these successful picks to emphasize the lack of success the current FO has in picking players.

For additional comparison let me point out that James Thrash caught one more pass for 4 more yards than all three Redskin 2nd round receivers COMBINED.

You keep making it about me, and I'll keep making it about what's wrong with the team--which begins and ends in the front office.

Posted by: TheCork | December 1, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

corky, how many times did they throw to Thomas?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 1, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Sure, you can blame a loss on lack of execution, being "close", dropped third down balls, untimely penalties,etc. But PLAYOFF TEAMS are good enough to overcome those shortcommings. Giants converted two consefcutive third and nines on their opening drive. THAT'S WHAT GOOD TEAMS DO!!!!! Gibbs did more with less last year. And speaking of the DB's what about the guy who was put on IR?(filled in for ST after he passed)

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 1, 2008 12:30 PM | Report abuse

It's to early to call Thomas and Kelly busts. Let's wait and see what they can do when they have an offensive line to block for Campbell. Hell, we won a SB with Mark Rypien thanks to a GREAT OL!!!

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 1, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Give Kelly more opportunities. If he has the chance again on that fade along the sideline he will make that play...

Posted by: hender_22 | December 1, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

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