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Tale of the Tape: AFC North vs. NFC East

Coming into the season, it was generally assumed that the battle between the NFC East and the AFC North would be one-sided. After all, the NFC East featured three playoff teams from last season and another, Philly, that was seen as an up-and-comer in the summer (two points for rhyming!).

And the AFC North, well, some people believed the silly hype about Cleveland being legit (I was not among them), while the Bengals and Ravens were supposedly rebuilding. The Steelers were expected to be, the Steelers. They're seemingly always in contention.

So how did it all play out? Well, it was a lot closer than you may have expected, especially considering that the Bengals and Browns turned out to be two of the worst teams in the entire league.

Here's how AFC North teams did against the NFC East:

Baltimore: 3-1 (only loss came to Giants)

Cleveland 1-3 (only win came against Giants, but they almost beat the Skins, too)

Cincy: 1-2-1 (beat the Skins, tied the Eagles, took the Giants to OT, gave Dallas a good game early in the year, when the Cowboys were blowing people away and were a Super Bowl favorite)

Pitt: 2-2 (beat the Redskins and Cowboys.

And the NFC East teams:

Washington: 1-3

Giants: 3-1

Dallas: 2-2

Philly: 2-1-1

So the NFC East wins the season series 8-7-1. With Baltimore and Pittsburgh built very much like a prototypical NFC East team (attack with the run game and rely on overly physical play and dominant defenses), it's not surprising they would have some success. But in the end, the Bengals' ability to beat the Skins and Eagles, and then virtually no one else in the NFL, could end up having a distinct impact on who will get the NFC's wild-card sports.

By Jason La Canfora  |  December 23, 2008; 7:45 AM ET
 
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Comments

First

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 7:55 AM | Report abuse

JLC would you have done this column if Baltimore was'nt 3-1, I doubt it.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 7:56 AM | Report abuse

Once a homer, always a homer. I believe there is a job open at the Baltimore Sun for JLC so he can go up there and fabricate stories with Templeton. A source told me......

Posted by: fushezzi | December 23, 2008 8:00 AM | Report abuse

All in all, I'm expecting Zorn to improve as a coach. Also, I am HOPING that Zorn will muscle into the player selection process so that he can push Vinny aside and get the players he needs over the next several years, while unloading some of the overpriced talent that Vinny has so carefully built up over the last 10 years that totally limit the Shredskins' options. Zorn also looks way better on the sidelines than Reid.

Luria vs Snyder? Well, take your pick.

All in all, I'd rather be in Washington. But neither team is a winner in the short or even medium term.

Posted by: JohnRVA | December 23, 2008 7:59 AM |

John,

The only way a coach normally gets more sway in personel is to win so if he has a good year next year this could happen.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 8:02 AM | Report abuse

Periculum or what ever your name is your salary cap numbers are off, just like every other post you made last night.

All you did was list the players salaries for next year, if they are cut they do not get there salaries paid.

I will post this again for Periculum who it only took 3 weeks and 100 comments to realize you can not cut Portis because of his cap hit.

http://www.thewarpath.net/WarpathRedskinsCap.htm

Go to this page look at the column next to 2009 it says rfees, this is what it will cost you to release the player. The 2009 column is what it would cost to keep the player.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 8:04 AM | Report abuse

For those of us that can not get to the site.

2009 Salary R Fee
Jason Taylor DE $ 8,500 $ -
Shawn Springs CB $ 8,483 $ 2,483
Marcus Washington LB $ 6,520 $ 2,020
Cornelius Griffin DT $ 6,166 $ 2,549
Clinton Portis RB $ 5,671 $ 13,365
Chris Samuels OT $ 9,378 $ 9,492
Jon Jansen OT $ 3,413 $ 6,188
Randy Thomas OG $ 5,851 $ 13,451
Santana Moss WR $ 6,753 $ 7,217
Casey Rabach OL $ 3,650 $ 1,300
London Fletcher LB $ 4,350 $ 6,300
Pete Kendall OL
Chris Cooley TE $ 3,053 $ 11,167
Andre Carter DE $ 6,598 $ 6,825
Antwaan Randle El WR $ 6,119 $ 6,763
Phillip Daniels DE $ 2,057 $ 114
Laron Landry S $ 5,428 $ 7,573
Fred Smoot CB $ 4,150 $ 4,200
Carlos Rogers CB $ 2,441 $ 3,873
Jason Campbell QB $ 1,813 $ 1,031
Ladell Betts RB $ 1,975 $ 2,775
Roger McIntosh LB $ 1,085 $ 455
Todd Collins QB $ 2,500 $ 2,500
DeAngelo Hall CB
James Thrash WR $ 945 $ 100
Mike Sellers FB $ 920 $ 350
Demetric Evans DL
Khary Campbell LB
Todd Yoder TE $ 887 $ 117
Devin Thomas WR $ 779 $ 1,181
Rock Cartwright RB $ 1,045 $ 200
Erasmus James DE $ 1,003 $ -
Fred Davis TE $ 731 $ 1,037
Malcolm Kelly WR $ 701 $ 948
Shaun Suisham K
Anthony Montgomery DT
Ethan Albright LS
Jason Fabini OL
Reed Doughty S
Kedric Golston DT
Justin Geisinger OG
Chad Rinehart OL $ 538 $ 459
Mike Green S
Alfred Fincher LB
Ryan Plackemeier P $ 535 $ -
Ryan Boschetti DT
H.B. Blades LB $ 487 $ 53
Justin Tryon CB $ 492 $ 322
Stephon Heyer OL $ 463 $ 3
Lorenzo Alexander DT $ 460 $ -
Chris Wilson DE $ 460 $ -
Kareem Moore S $ 410 $ 74
Colt Brennan QB $ 409 $ 73
Rob Jackson DE $ 395 $ 31
Chris Horton S $ 394 $ 27
Matt Sinclair LB $ 460 $ -
Alex Buzbee DE $ 460 $ -

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 8:07 AM | Report abuse

Offseason to-do's...

1) Re-sign D Hall
2) Give 17 3-year extension
3) Obtain more draft picks via trades or move back draft day

Posted by: forever21 | December 23, 2008 8:13 AM | Report abuse

I think top 3 guys on that list have to go, JT being brought back possibly at a reduced salary if he's agreeable.

Almost 19 million in cap space by releasing them.....thats a no brainer to me.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 8:16 AM | Report abuse

These are guys I cut or don't resign if i'm Vinny. Some for salary cap relief others because we need to get younger. A few because they are not very good.
Anyone want to argue for someone on the list.

Before you argue for Springs do we want to pay him over 8mil to play in 5-6 games.

JT can stay for like 2mil or under.

Jason Taylor DE $ 8,500 $ -
Shawn Springs CB $ 8,483 $ 2,483
Marcus Washington LB $ 6,520 $ 2,020
Cornelius Griffin DT $ 6,166 $ 2,549
James Thrash WR $ 945 $ 100
Reed Doughty S
Jason Fabini OL
Todd Yoder TE $ 887 $ 117
Pete Kendall OL
Shaun Suisham K
Ryan Boschetti DT
Matt Sinclair LB $ 460 $ -
Alex Buzbee DE $ 460 $ -

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 8:17 AM | Report abuse

forev, nice job. Agree 100 percent. Re-upping hall would be huge for this team.

Trading back and getting more picks, has to happen however. They cannot come out of this draft with only 4 picks, that simply would be crushing....

flound, lol, this post is right up there with the post from yesterday that started, "I know they won, but lets look at the Rams loss for a second"....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 8:19 AM | Report abuse

I can shorter your comment, JLC:

If it wasn't for the Redskins, the NFC East would have kicked AFC North booty.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | December 23, 2008 8:19 AM | Report abuse

These guys can not be traded or released do to the cap hit.

2009 R Fee
Clinton Portis RB $ 5,671 $ 13,365
Chris Samuels OT $ 9,378 $ 9,492
Jon Jansen OT $ 3,413 $ 6,188
Randy Thomas OG $ 5,851 $ 13,451
Santana Moss WR $ 6,753 $ 7,217
London Fletcher LB $ 4,350 $ 6,300
Chris Cooley TE $ 3,053 $ 11,167
Andre Carter DE $ 6,598 $ 6,825
Antwaan Randle El WR $ 6,119 $ 6,763
Laron Landry S $ 5,428 $ 7,573

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 8:20 AM | Report abuse

Jason Taylor DE $ 8,500 $ -
Shawn Springs CB $ 8,483 $ 2,483
Marcus Washington LB $ 6,520 $ 2,020
Cornelius Griffin DT $ 6,166 $ 2,549
James Thrash WR $ 945 $ 100
Reed Doughty S
Jason Fabini OL
Todd Yoder TE $ 887 $ 117
Pete Kendall OL
Shaun Suisham K
Ryan Boschetti DT
Matt Sinclair LB $ 460 $ -
Alex Buzbee DE $ 460 $ -


Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 8:17 AM


Looks like you're thinking about rebuilding the defense this offseaon with four starters getting axed.

Posted by: TWISI | December 23, 2008 8:28 AM | Report abuse

If the Redskins were to utilize players as trade bait to pick up some mid-late round picks...any thoughts on who could be shopped around?

Betts ? (5/6 round pick) - minimal wear and tear the past few seasons behind CP and quality RB (30 next year)

Rogers ? (4/5 round pick) - above average cover corner minus threat of INT's (28 next year)

Posted by: forever21 | December 23, 2008 8:28 AM | Report abuse

If the Redskins were to utilize players as trade bait to pick up some mid-late round picks...any thoughts on who could be shopped around?

Posted by: forever21 | December 23, 2008 8:29 AM | Report abuse

Greg,

I almost had to fight some guy last night for the last Guitar Hero for the Wii, lucky for him or me the sales guy came over and said he had another one in the back.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 8:29 AM | Report abuse

Flound, from Doughty down, I'd bring that group to camp next year, just to see what they can bring to the team. Minus Fabini, he needs to be sent packing...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 8:30 AM | Report abuse

Looks like you're thinking about rebuilding the defense this offseaon with four starters getting axed.

Posted by: TWISI | December 23, 2008 8:28 AM |

Some of the guys listed already have replacements.

As far as the D-line goes we need a couple of FA's to replace them.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 8:31 AM | Report abuse

It's incredibly sad that we've only got four picks in the upcoming draft, our entire O.L. is past it's sell-by date, and this draft is incredibly rich in O.L. talent.

But I don't see how we turn draft lead into gold. As others have discussed, it seems unlikely that we could trade our 1st for 2 second rounders.

We might be able to trade our first pick to someone with a high 2nd and a high 3rd. There should be fine prospects in the 2nd and 3rd, and I think we need at least 2 of those for the O.L.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | December 23, 2008 8:37 AM | Report abuse

I'd love to have Jason Taylor back if he'll take a pay cut. No way we should pay him $8.5 million but he can still play and he's great in the locker room.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 23, 2008 8:37 AM | Report abuse

F, are you kidding me about throwing down?? Wow...I know my wife and I ordered our Wii on line, you can't find them anywhere...I'm sure folks at this point in time are desperate.

forever, I think if you dump JT, DEvans starts in his place, and if you dump springs, you have to sign Hall in his place. So in a perfect world, you're really only replacing MWash. I'd wouldn't cut Griff yet. Keep him in a rotation with Monty, and Golston, to keep him fresh.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 8:38 AM | Report abuse

OE agreed on JT,

If he wants to play one more season for around 2mil then do it, if not Bye Bye.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 8:40 AM | Report abuse

greg,

I have'nt thrown hands in a while it could have been ugly.

I cut Griff because it saves a lot of money to sign either a O-Linemen or D-linemen.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 8:42 AM | Report abuse

If we want to go after some of these FA's everybody is talking about we need to cut some money some were.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 8:44 AM | Report abuse

You guys have to remember that the easiest way to gut the team would be after NEXT season, when there aren't any cap hits. It's pretty much pointless to cut anybody that has a higher cap hit than salary this offseason. This team only has 4 draft picks this year, and significant FAs shouldn't be brought in because the team needs to get younger, so unless we get offered draft picks for players, we aren't getting an overhaul this offseason.

My vote is to NOT cut anybody from the defense until it's exactly known what cap space will be needed next year. There should only be 1-2 major FA signings (my vote being an OT and re-signing DHall). Unless somebody offers draft picks for these guys, Springs, Washington, Griffin, and Taylor should be back next year (Taylor is the only viable one I'd cut, if necessary). This defense is nasty, and part of the reason the defense has been so consistent (only team not to let up more than 24 points in a game) is because of the depth we have -- including the oft-injured guys. Every one of those guys, with the exception of Taylor, has consistently made a BIG difference when they're in the game.

In short, there really is no upside to gutting the roster this year, unless there are viable replacements on the market already. All of these massive changes can come about much more effectively after next season.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 8:45 AM | Report abuse

The Steelers and the Ravens taught the Skins the one lesson I hope is learned: the best way to get a strong pass rush is by using hybrid 3-4 and 4-3 defensive schemes.


Rob Jackson, Buzbee, or Chris Wilson should be given a shot to bull rush, a la the Steelers' James Harrison on obvious passing downs.

Finding a way to keep Jason Taylor (give him the freedom to roam and free-lance and he'll make the kind of plays Lavar Arrington used to occasionally make) would make such a scheme change a smart way to duplicate the mass confusion the Ravens/Steelers bring in obvious passing situations.

....and the Marcus Washington/Rocky Mac linebacker dilemma is just as vexing as the DeAngelo Hall/Carlos Rogers cornerback issue. Push Mr. Creaky-knees Rocky by giving Fincher or Matt Sinclair the chance to play more opposite HB Blades. We should draft Laurenitis from Ohio State or Brandon Siler from UF as possible MLB back ups to our defensive MVP London Fletcher.

Me, I sign Hall, re-sign Rogers (he's a fair to middlin' 3rd corner) and replace Shawn Springs with a free agent signee. Smoot's play is what has to be judged and makes you wonder why the FO let Walt Harris get away a couple of years ago. We have to find out if Justin Tyson can play.

Again: bringing in Taylor was dumb. But if we can sneak Suggs away from Baltimore or sign Haynesworth to play the middle, the Skins d will have another monster year of carrying the team while the offense tries to 'learn' the WCO.

Maybe I should not have said that.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 23, 2008 8:45 AM | Report abuse

Draft needs

1) OL (RT - replace Jansen)
2) DL (DE - replace Taylor)
3) LB (OLB - replace Washington)
4) RB (RB - future beyond 26)
5) DB (DB - depth for secondary)

Posted by: forever21 | December 23, 2008 8:45 AM | Report abuse

"Rogers ? (4/5 round pick) - above average cover corner minus threat of INT's (28 next year)

Posted by: forever21"

That would be a horrible trade. Rogers is a shutdown corner, has been all year, really only beaten twice for TDs. You want to trade him for a 4th or a 5th round pick??

Just to put your proposal in perspective; Justin Tryon was drafted by us in the 4th round. Justin...Tryon....

Tryon vs Rogers

I wonder which one I'm choosing.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 8:50 AM | Report abuse

Draft needs

1) OL (RT - replace Jansen)
2) DL (DE - replace Taylor)
3) LB (OLB - replace Washington)
4) RB (RB - future beyond 26)
5) DB (DB - depth for secondary)

Posted by: forever21 | December 23, 2008 8:45 AM |

Draft needs
1) O-line
2) O-Line
3) O-line
4) D-line
5) D-line

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 8:52 AM | Report abuse

Anyone headed in to DC on River Rd might want to think about a detour.

http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream1

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 23, 2008 8:55 AM | Report abuse

is Suggs a FA?

Posted by: carsonspence | December 23, 2008 8:57 AM | Report abuse

"But if we can sneak Suggs away from Baltimore or sign Haynesworth to play the middle, the Skins d will have another monster year of carrying the team"

Replace those two names with "Jason Taylor" and it sounds an awful lot like what we heard this past offseason.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Did anyone happen to watch the Titans roll over the Steelers? Did anyone notice the defensive line for the Titans that includes two rookies that were taken in the 2nd and 4th rounds? Two rookies that contributed greatly. I'm just wondering how those three 2nd round picks worked out for the Skins?

Posted by: Ireland2 | December 23, 2008 8:59 AM | Report abuse

very deep, and very talented OL class coming out this year. I think OL, OL, OL, is the first three picks the team needs to make. Take the #1, and trade if back for a #2, and #3, and take 3 linemen.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 9:00 AM | Report abuse

"But if we can sneak Suggs away from Baltimore or sign Haynesworth to play the middle, the Skins d will have another monster year of carrying the team"

Replace those two names with "Jason Taylor" and it sounds an awful lot like what we heard this past offseason.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 8:57 AM |

Well psp that is not entirly true Suggs is 26 and haynesworth is 27. Taylor is 33-34 and was not that interested in football all off-season.

Taylor does not fit in the Skins defense, Suggs might have the same problem. haynesworth is a 4-3 defensive tackle he would be fine.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 9:04 AM | Report abuse

ps,

perhaps rogers trade would be terrible for that round pick...would you pull trigger for 3rd round or you intent on keeping 22?

Posted by: forever21 | December 23, 2008 9:05 AM | Report abuse

Did anyone happen to watch the Titans roll over the Steelers? Did anyone notice the defensive line for the Titans that includes two rookies that were taken in the 2nd and 4th rounds? Two rookies that contributed greatly. I'm just wondering how those three 2nd round picks worked out for the Skins?

Posted by: Ireland2 | December 23, 2008 8:59 AM |

Tells me that Tenn. is not afraid to play rookies when needed, the Skins should try it sometime.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 9:05 AM | Report abuse

Trading back and getting more picks, has to happen however. They cannot come out of this draft with only 4 picks, that simply would be crushing....

flound, lol, this post is right up there with the post from yesterday that started, "I know they won, but lets look at the Rams loss for a second"....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 8:19 AM | Report abuse


Greg, I rip on Vinny as much as anyone. But I will give him credit that he said he probably will trade back unless they see the perfect guy in the first round, no clue what the perfect guy would be.


Here is a hypothetical, if we see a "guaranteed starter" LB at our first pick and the best you can get in a trade back is a 2nd and 3rd. Do you traid or take the LB?

What if its a OT not a LB?

Posted by: alex35332 | December 23, 2008 9:10 AM | Report abuse

Seriously people...quit the Haynesworth talk. I can essentially guarantee that it'll be Stubblefield 2.0 if he comes here. Let's draft someone and coach him up to be better than Haynesworth.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

These guys can not be traded or released do to the cap hit.

2009 R Fee
Clinton Portis RB $ 5,671 $ 13,365
Chris Samuels OT $ 9,378 $ 9,492
Jon Jansen OT $ 3,413 $ 6,188
Randy Thomas OG $ 5,851 $ 13,451
Santana Moss WR $ 6,753 $ 7,217
London Fletcher LB $ 4,350 $ 6,300
Chris Cooley TE $ 3,053 $ 11,167
Andre Carter DE $ 6,598 $ 6,825
Antwaan Randle El WR $ 6,119 $ 6,763
Laron Landry S $ 5,428 $ 7,573

Posted by: Flounder21

DS should call VC into his office and hand him this list and say, "This is why you are fired!" Of course, DS signs the checks, and since he owns the team, tioo bad he won't be fired. The only one on the list that I don't think is overpaid is Landry. Young, great player!

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 23, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Here is a hypothetical, if we see a "guaranteed starter" LB at our first pick and the best you can get in a trade back is a 2nd and 3rd. Do you traid or take the LB?

What if its a OT not a LB?


Posted by: alex35332 | December 23, 2008 9:10 AM |

If it is a OT I stay if it is LB I trade back.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 9:12 AM | Report abuse

Oops, I like Fletcher too, but he's old.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 23, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Brown,

I know we had problems in the past with DT in FA.

But not everything repeats itself we have also had some great players braught in Washington and Fletcher.

So you may be right about Haynesworth but you could be wrong as well. Not sure if it is worth finding out.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 9:16 AM | Report abuse

"Well psp that is not entirly true Suggs is 26 and haynesworth is 27. Taylor is 33-34 and was not that interested in football all off-season.

Taylor does not fit in the Skins defense, Suggs might have the same problem. haynesworth is a 4-3 defensive tackle he would be fine.

Posted by: Flounder21"

Just saying be careful what you wish for. Both those guys will command massive contracts, and no FA is a guarantee to fit this scheme. I'd rather stick with what we know, and use the draft to build for the future.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 9:18 AM | Report abuse

If it is a OT I stay if it is LB I trade back.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 9:12 AM | Report abuse

I sure would stay for an OT, agreed. Depending on how the LB projects out to be its a tough call. DT or DE would also be an interesting scenario.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 23, 2008 9:18 AM | Report abuse

They need OL in the draft. How about this lineup:

LT Samuels
LG Rinehart
C - Rookie
RG - Jansen
RT - Heyer

What's to be done with Kendall, Thomas, Rabach, Fabini?

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 23, 2008 9:21 AM | Report abuse

If it is a OT I stay if it is LB I trade back.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 9:12 AM

If Aaron Curry is there it might be too hard to pass on him, even though he plays OLB. ESPN, Sporingnews, NFL.com all have him as the best senior prospect regardless of position. However, I do think JZ will be pushing for an OL with the first pick.

Posted by: TWISI | December 23, 2008 9:21 AM | Report abuse

Flounder,

The parallels are stunning--both guys have MVP-type contract years and weren't a big deal before (although talent) the big seasons. They cash in a blow up. He was mentioned in the same breath as Kris Jenkins and Shaun Rogers in terms of being supremely talented but lazy (unless of course, a multi-million dollar pay day is on the line). I'll take a pass on a guy like that.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2008 9:21 AM | Report abuse

It's time for the Skins to have a very bad year next year, but for all the right reasons; we need a real honest rebuilding year to make a championship run.

That means figuring out how to jettison as many of these vets as possible. There are the usual suspects: Washington, Springs, Jansen, Taylor, Thrash etc. It also means NOT resigning Kendall, getting rid of Griffin. Even if these guys can be serviceable, we need to get young guys on the field to see what they have.

The only FA that I would go after is Suggs. He's the youngest of the lot and can fill a big need at LB with Rocky Mac and Marcus W. on the slide. Re-sign Hall.

It's the only way for us to get out of this Groundhog Day of patching together 8-9 win seasons but never actually competing for a Superbowl.

Posted by: p1funk | December 23, 2008 9:22 AM | Report abuse

I know there's some trade value chart, but does anyone know realistically what we could swindle in return for our 1st round pick (guessing 14-18)...feedback?

Posted by: forever21 | December 23, 2008 9:22 AM | Report abuse

Getting the Skins to play rookies is going to be very interesting change of operation next year if the FO office loads up on o-line like the fanbase wants it too.

With four picks, will they all sit or play from day one?

Heyer played fairly well Sunday. He plays only because of injury.

Where was Rhinehart/Geisinger--oops, they are rookies. Can't play in DC...even when the o-line fails.


Speaking of rookie linemen, it hurt to hear Marvin Lewis brag about stealing Andrew Crummey off the Skins' practice roster.

That's a young center/guard, folks.

If the Skins had carried two q-backs all season--and not three, the roster spot would've be availiable to keep Crummey. He would be seen as a viable challenge/back up to Rabach next season. But in DC, he was just another expendable rookie...

...and the fans like the stud tackle from Miss State-Oher?

If he's drafted to start at right tackle, will he start on day one or will Jansen be given more time, like Pete Kendall has been this year, to prove his best days are behind in?

Let's get the rooks on the field.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 23, 2008 9:24 AM | Report abuse

"ps,

perhaps rogers trade would be terrible for that round pick...would you pull trigger for 3rd round or you intent on keeping 22?

Posted by: forever21"

I would take nothing less than a very high 1st round pick, plus extra for Rogers. If you re-sign both him and Hall, you've got the CB position locked up for the next 5 years. If you get a draft pick, even if it's top 10, you'll have to draft somebody that you hope becomes as good as Rogers is someday. It's a backwards strategy.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 9:24 AM | Report abuse

You think CP is overpaid?!? The guy is 3rd in the league in rushing!

CP found yards this year where nobody on the Skins would have. He carried the offense and paid the price. There isn't 1 player on that team wants to win more than he does. CP is a keeper.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 23, 2008 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Reading through the last thread


kinda disappointed with RedDMV


Peach White Owls my friend

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 23, 2008 9:26 AM | Report abuse

Round 1 Round 2 Round 3 Round 4 Round 5 Round 6 Round 7
1 3,000 33 580 65 265 97 112 129 43 161 27 193 14.2
2 2,600 34 560 66 260 98 108 130 42 162 26.6 194 13.8
3 2,200 35 550 67 255 99 104 131 41 163 26.2 195 13.4
4 1,800 36 540 68 250 100 100 132 40 164 25.8 196 13
5 1,700 37 530 69 245 101 96 133 39.5 165 25.4 197 12.6
6 1,600 38 520 70 240 102 92 134 39 166 25 198 12.2
7 1,500 39 510 71 235 103 88 135 38.5 167 24.6 199 11.8
8 1,400 40 500 72 230 104 86 136 38 168 24.2 200 11.4
9 1,350 41 490 73 225 105 84 137 37.5 169 23.8 201 11
10 1,300 42 480 74 220 106 82 138 37 170 23.4 202 10.6
11 1,250 43 470 75 215 107 80 139 36.5 171 23 203 10.2
12 1,200 44 460 76 210 108 78 140 36 172 22.6 204 9.8
13 1,150 45 450 77 205 109 76 141 35.5 173 22.2 205 9.4
14 1,100 46 440 78 200 110 74 142 35 174 21.8 206 9
15 1,050 47 430 79 195 111 72 143 34.5 175 21.4 207 8.6
16 1,000 48 420 80 190 112 70 144 34 176 21 208 8.2
17 950 49 410 81 185 113 68 145 33.5 177 20.6 209 7.8
18 900 50 400 82 180 114 66 146 33 178 20.2 210 7.4
19 875 51 390 83 175 115 64 147 32.6 179 19.8 211 7
20 850 52 380 84 170 116 62 148 32.2 180 19.4 212 6.6
21 800 53 370 85 165 117 60 149 31.8 181 19 213 6.2
22 780 54 360 86 160 118 58 150 31.4 182 18.6 214 5.8
23 760 55 350 87 155 119 56 151 31 183 18.2 215 5.4
24 740 56 340 88 150 120 54 152 30.6 184 17.8 216 5
25 720 57 330 89 145 121 52 153 30.2 185 17.4 217 4.6
26 700 58 320 90 140 122 50 154 29.8 186 17 218 4.2
27 680 59 310 91 136 123 49 155 29.4 187 16.6 219 3.8
28 660 60 300 92 132 124 48 156 29 188 16.2 220 3.4
29 640 61 292 93 128 125 47 157 28.6 189 15.8 221 3
30 620 62 284 94 124 126 46 158 28.2 190 15.4 222 2.6
31 600 63 276 95 120 127 45 159 27.8 191 15 223 2.3
32 590 64 270 96 116 128 44 160 27.4 192 14.6 224 2

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

draft value chart = power rankings

Posted by: p1funk | December 23, 2008 9:29 AM | Report abuse

If anyone wants to try to figure out that draft value chart I posted be my guess.

Remember you have to have a willing partner to trade.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

draft value chart = power rankings

Posted by: p1funk | December 23, 2008 9:29 AM |

Just giving the guy what he asked for.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

"I know there's some trade value chart, but does anyone know realistically what we could swindle in return for our 1st round pick (guessing 14-18)...feedback?


Posted by: forever21"

I would GUESS, emphasis on GUESS, if you wanna drop back like 4 or 5 spots and stay in the first, you'd get a 3rd rounder on top of it.

so

Redskin's 1st rounder for Team XXX's later 1st rounder and 3rd rounder


but I dunno


Vinny is saying he wants to have about 7 draft picks this year, that's 3 he needs to get.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 23, 2008 9:31 AM | Report abuse

They need OL in the draft. How about this lineup:

LT Samuels
LG Rinehart
C - Rookie
RG - Jansen
RT - Heyer

What's to be done with Kendall, Thomas, Rabach, Fabini?
Posted by: dpc2003 | December 23, 2008 9:21 AM | Report abuse
---
I don't like that lineup. I mean I like the Samuels and Rinehart side but thats it, I see Rabach as a good center for another few years and Thomas is still doing okay too. Its all about getting a good RT to start and 3 other guys to compete for the rest of the spots. Every spot on the line should be open for competition but I think only Jansen and Kendal will be on the outs.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 23, 2008 9:32 AM | Report abuse

Truth,

If he could get 7 that would ne nice but it will not be easy.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 9:32 AM | Report abuse

for yall mock draft enthusiasts :

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/index.php

it's worth looking at, if for none other than seeing what might be available for the Skins. Not sure if I've posted the link before, but yall will be okay.

But there's some 4+ round mocks there. I haven't seen one I 100% agree with for the Skins, but it's interesting.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 23, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

draft value chart = power rankings

Posted by: p1funk | December 23, 2008 9:29 AM |

Just giving the guy what he asked for.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

I know...just sayin...

I think the draft value chart was invented by Jimmy Johnson as a scheme to help him rip off other teams with draft day trades, while making them think that they were getting some kind of "value"...

Posted by: p1funk | December 23, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Jansen would not hold up at guard he gets bull rushed by DE's, a good DT would push him back everytime.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Actually, if Atlanta wins Sunday, it would not have mattered if the Skins got to 10 wins by beating Cinci. We'd still be out.

Posted by: LiberalMike | December 23, 2008 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Randy Thomas is fine. His side of the line looks weak because he's had a turnstile playing next to him the entire season. Jansen and Rabach are the 2 players most in need of a future replacement (Kendall already has Rinehart).

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse

high 1st round plus extra for Rogers...??

I believe he is a very good corner but there is no way he'd garner that much stock.

Posted by: forever21 | December 23, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse

...and the fans like the stud tackle from Miss State-Oher?

If he's drafted to start at right tackle, will he start on day one or will Jansen be given more time, like Pete Kendall has been this year, to prove his best days are behind in?

Let's get the rooks on the field.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 23, 2008 9:24 AM
===========================================
Andre Smith, Eugene Monroe, and Michael Oher are all most likely gone before the Redskins have a pick.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | December 23, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse

"LT Samuels
LG Rinehart
C - Rookie
RG - Jansen
RT - Heyer

What's to be done with Kendall, Thomas, Rabach, Fabini?

Posted by: dpc2003 "

Rookie centers are actually pretty solid this year and one of the top 3 might be dropping to the 3rd round.

but I really don't want Jansen back next year. He can be cut and it will cost us like 1-1.5 mil, so I think we should just cut ties.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 23, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse

I know...just sayin...

I think the draft value chart was invented by Jimmy Johnson as a scheme to help him rip off other teams with draft day trades, while making them think that they were getting some kind of "value"...

Posted by: p1funk | December 23, 2008 9:33 AM |

I'll tell you what Jimmy Johnson was a master at taking picks away from people.

I hate him because he made the Cowgirls a good team again but that guy was a good Coach/GM.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

If you triad your 1st for a *best case late 1st and 2nd. Then go about trading that 2nd for a 3rd and 4th or 4th 5th.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 23, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse

draft value chart = power rankings

Posted by: p1funk | December 23, 2008 9:29 AM

Agreed. Most teams don't even use that chart anymore. Good teams don't value the upper half of the first round as much as they used to because of how expensive it is to sign the players.

Vinny needs to stop trading picks just to make it look like he's doing something smart. Getting multiple picks means nothing if you're not going to do anything with them. How bad do the Skins need Sam Baker right now?

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Beep Beep.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | December 23, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Colts 1st Round picks since '01...this is depressing

2001 - WR, Reggie Wayne
2002 - DE, Dwight Freeney
2003 - TE, Dallas Clark
2004 - S, Bob Sanders
2005 - CB, Marlin Jackson (?)
2006 - RB, Joseph Addai
2007 - WR, Anthony Gonzalez
2008 - C, Mike Pollack

Posted by: forever21 | December 23, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

I dunno about Randy Thomas. They tried to run stretch plays to the right against CIN and he was getting pushed back into CP. Rabach same thing, they're getting stood up and handled. Not so much on the right side.

Yeah, Jansen is having problems with the bull rush, but I think it's because he's overcompensating for the fact he can't slide anymore. Because his feet have slowed down, his weight is more on top instead of leaning forward, which makes him vulnerable to a bull rush. If he plays guard, he doesn't have to worry about sliding as much and maybe he can handle a DT. I think he's doing well on runs.

Anyway, I think the OL is the area that must be addressed during the off season. The defense is fine. The QB is fine. The receiving corps is a little suspect.

They run a lot of outs and hooks. JC completes the pass, but the WR is either stationary or moving back to the line of scrimmage. The only plays they seem to have where the WR is moving forward is that crazy WR screen (great when it works, scary all the time) and fly patterns. Is this a WCO thing? I have visions of Jerry Rice splitting the safeties on a cover-2, why can't we do that?

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 23, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse

First

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 7:55 AM | Report abuse

You are, without a doubt, the biggest dork to ever grace this blog.

Posted by: TiredOfLosers | December 23, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Someone wrote: "Did anyone happen to watch the Titans roll over the Steelers? Did anyone notice the defensive line for the Titans that includes two rookies that were taken in the 2nd and 4th rounds? Two rookies that contributed greatly. I'm just wondering how those three 2nd round picks worked out for the Skins?"

The Titans had a great draft in 08, but they've had their share of turkeys, too. In 04 they set out to draft talented young DLs in the early rounds, hoping to stock the line for a decade. Looks like of the four they drafted (two second-rounders, one third, one fourth, and a seventh), none are still with the team. We're all sick of hearing it, but there really is a downside to drafting for need -- sometimes you whiff.

By the way, they had three second-rounders that year, and they're all gone.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 23, 2008 9:33 PM | Report abuse

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