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Haynesworth's Transition Gains Traction

After spending his first seven NFL seasons with the Tennessee Titans, defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth, who joined the Washington Redskins in February, now faces the biggest adjustment of his career and it's one he says could take a while.

"It's just a matter of getting comfortable with everything we do" defensively, Haynesworth said recently. "The guys are all great guys, everyone has been cool, I just have to get used to doing some things a different way. When you've always done everything a certain way, when that's the only way you've known, then it is a little different. But I'm not worried about it."

In hopes of helping smooth Haynesworth's transition, defensive coordinator Greg Blache has signaled his willingness to modify the disciplined scheme the team has used the last five seasons to let Haynesworth be, well, Haynesworth. The Redskins' 4-3 defense is structured to stop the run foremost. Defensive tackles are assigned to maintain their run-gap responsibilities while taking on blockers in an effort to help linebackers make big plays.

But Haynesworth did not play the role of a "space eater" with the Titans. He made many plays going after the ball, and that's what he plans to do with the Redskins. Blache and defensive line coach John Palermo have sought Haynesworth's input about how he would prefer to be used in some situations -- within the framework of the defense.

Blache is not expected to make wholesale changes to the successful approach (four top-10 finishes on defense during the last five seasons) he and his predecessor, Gregg Williams, brought to the Redskins, "but just them willing to listen and think about doing some things a little different makes you feel good," Haynesworth said. "I mean, I was comfortable playing the way we played in Tennessee, and I think you see what I did there. I know it's not going to be like we did everything in Tennessee, it's still going to be the way we do things here, but some changes will help me."

Despite his success, Haynesworth developed a reputation for having a lackadaisical attitude to offseason conditioning and taking plays off during games early in his NFL career. With the Redskins, however, "Albert has been out there going as hard as everyone else," quarterback Jason Campbell said of offseason workouts, minicamp and organized training activities. "He has been here doing what we do. That just sets a good example for everyone."

The criticism about his supposed lack of work ethic seems to annoy Haynesworth.

"I hear that all the time," he said. "People say, 'He's got a world of potential and he's not living up to it.' I'm like, 'Golly. I'm trying to tap into it.' I feel I am now. Hopefully, I still have a whole lot to do out there. I think I can get a whole lot better. And the whole thing about, 'He takes plays off,' well, people who say that just don't know me. If you know me, you know I hate to lose.

"No matter what we're in, a game, a series, a quarter or just a play, I don't like to lose. I feel like I'm better than that just to let somebody dominate me. To go out there and let somebody do that to me ... that's a slap in the face to me. But the other guy is out there trying, too. Sometimes you're not going to win every battle. The only thing I can say is, for all those people who think of me like that, go ask the guys I play against if they feel I'm working hard."

By Jason Reid  |  May 11, 2009; 9:55 AM ET
 
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Next: The Big Issues: Will Campbell Return?

Comments

"Going to take a while?" Uh, oh. Didn't Dana Stubblefield say something like that?

Posted by: boothintexas | May 11, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

second!

Posted by: 29overreds | May 11, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

I like when my Defensive Tackles drop a 'Golly' in there every once in a while.

Posted by: Original_etrod | May 11, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Forgive me ahead of time if my football ignorance on the matter totally undercuts what I'm about to say:

DT has to be the easiest position to "learn", right? I mean, how many possible variations can there be to what you have to do?

Posted by: p1funk | May 11, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

AH will make this a better team against NY but I don't think McNabb and Romo even know how to play in the pocket.

Posted by: alex35332 | May 11, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: NateinthePDX | May 10, 2009 3:18 PM

Nate. Dude. Things must be getting a little boring in your PDX. Why not "switch" over to a PBX? I am familiar with several PBXs for several big investment banks that have plenty of room available.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 11, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

"Forgive me ahead of time if my football ignorance on the matter totally undercuts what I'm about to say:DT has to be the easiest position to "learn", right? I mean, how many possible variations can there be to what you have to do?Posted by: p1funk"

Actually, quite a few.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Actually, quite a few.


Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

I figure that you can attack one of two gaps, you can play a man straight up, you can stunt, or on the rare occassion you drop back into a shallow zone coverage.

That's 4 things.

Enlighten me...

Posted by: p1funk | May 11, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

I think there is only 1 "easy" position to learn and thats Kicker. They have 2 major tasks. Kickoff and FG. Both involve similar motions. They have some smaller jobs too but you don't expect a kicker to be the monster of the Special teams.

Posted by: alex35332 | May 11, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Coach Blache should stop being so stubborn and let his players make plays, even if they are outside the scope of his system. And I'm tired of hearing how we had a "top 10 defense" for 4 of the last 5 years. Defensive statistics are based on yards gained and are very deceptive. Where did our defense rank in the 4th quarter??? I bet we were toward the bottom of the league!! We need to be able to stop teams late in the game and isn't that why we brought Haynesworth here in the first place?

Posted by: paulstutz14 | May 11, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

I got a few more for you p1funk. On the pass you got - dip and rip, swim move, spin (not often if ever from a DT), drop in coverage, bull rush to either gaps, and stunt with a DE or other DT. On the run you basically got play the OL head up and try to take up two gaps or one. Pretty much the simplest position on defense.

Posted by: caps512 | May 11, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

P1,

You can have a DT drop back into a zone some times, you can have them shadow a FB or have it be their job to shadow a RB.

Posted by: alex35332 | May 11, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Maybe easy if you're playing a video game or if every offense runs just one play with the same blocking scheme. LOL

Posted by: geotherm21 | May 11, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

what about that LB from the rams who was just released? he was 14th last year in the NFC in tackles and had almost 20 more than any redskin not named london

Posted by: follybeach | May 11, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

It's something of a mystery why 3 smaller WRs from that class (Avery, Jackson, and especially Royal) flourished, while only one of the bigger receivers (Jordy Nelson) made a dent. Kelly's problem was injury, but what about James Hardy (6'6") and Limas Sweed (6'4")? ...

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 10:30

It ain't no mystery if you put a little thought to it. Outside of Avery and Swede it's the QBs. Jack, Royal and Nellie did well because they had good QBs. Avery was the only decent WR on the Rams. Swede was stuck behind Ward and Holmes (the famous "we draft for the future" Steeler mantra) and Hardy was doomed with the Bills' QB injuries and inconsistencies.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 11, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

follybeach

"...what about that LB from the rams who was just released?"

Levi Jones is the only guy 'out there' work a sniff, and that's only because the o-line issues the team has.

We've already added R Thomas, which satisfies the 'small' free agent linebacker/special teamer slot on the roster.

Just because a guy is released, maybe it doesn't mean the skins should add him...unless, of course, Tom Brady somehow gets cut.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 11, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

PFT Reports Pats set to cut ties with T. Brady......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 11, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Greg, you're an evil man.

Posted by: Original_etrod | May 11, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Well, I doubt Blatche is that mad. All I can tell from Blatche so far is he is setting expectations extremely low. Which is smart on his part.

Set the bar through the media as low as possible and hope Hayneworth earns that $12 mil per year......

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 11, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

sorry...that was too easy...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 11, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

what about that LB from the rams who was just released? he was 14th last year in the NFC in tackles and had almost 20 more than any redskin not named london


Posted by: follybeach | May 11, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Now that's funny,i guess you don't realize that the linebackers are usually the team leaders in tackles.And 14 out of 16 in the NFC ain't good....i say take a pass

Posted by: jumbo5383 | May 11, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

PFT Reports Pats set to cut ties with T. Brady......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 11, 2009 11:23 AM

If it actually happened there would be the usual half-dozen posts up here, from the usual half-dozen posters saying "Think we should bring him in for a look? I mean, if he'll take the vet min., of course."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 11, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

'Golly. I'm trying to tap into it.'

Nate, you've clearly been feeding big Al your lines!

Posted by: daggar | May 11, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

I think punter is the easiest position because you don't have to score, except on the drop kick; just kick it a far as you can notwithstanding pooch punt.

Posted by: Realness1 | May 11, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Of course Haynesworth has to learn the Skins defensive scheme... Do you really think any NFL player can join a new team and have the innate sense to know how the scheme is played without any instruction from the coaches? He'll be fine by the end of training camp.

Even kickers need to understand complex coverages...

BTW - Haynesworth is earning 7 million this year. That is the highest salary on the club, but closely followed by Samuels (6.97 mil) and Moss (6.7 mil). You can review the Skins the salary structure here: http://www.thewarpath.net/WarpathRedskinsCap.htm

Posted by: siris | May 11, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Nate, you've clearly been feeding big Al your lines!

Posted by: daggar | May 11, 2009 11:36 AM |

Nate? Nah -- he's never used "trying" and "tap" in the same sentence. It would be more like "I just tapped into it" or "No one can tap into it faster than I can" or "Once again, I gave in to taptation."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 11, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

"figure that you can attack one of two gaps, you can play a man straight up, you can stunt, or on the rare occassion you drop back into a shallow zone coverage.
That's 4 things. Enlighten me...Posted by: p1funk"

Well, my background's offense, but in the modern NFL they have more and more in common. I think of it as four or five basic duties (you described them adequately) disguised forty or fifty different ways. For instance, in order to pull off a successful stunt, you have to have some awareness of what the folks beside and behind you are doing -- otherwise you'll get in the way, creating a hole where there wasn't one. Dropping into coverage alone is a trauma for some D-linemen coming out of college; they literallty trip over their own feet when faced with the task of moving backwards.

Greg Williams' schemes, for example, are heavy on trickery and deceptive looks. Blache favors a simplified approach; he doesn't like defenders thinking too much.

It's not all that different from offense. That notorious 700 page playbook of Al Saunders was easy to trim because it was really just five or ten plays with a myriad of disguises (men in motion, receiver placements, RB in the pattern, etc).

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

It is officail summer in the skins blog.

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 11, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

t_e, are you claiming that Nate never, not even once, had trouble getting the keg started?

Posted by: daggar | May 11, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

The criticism about his supposed lack of work ethic seems to annoy Haynesworth.

Who knew?

Posted by: daggar | May 11, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Haynesworth: "No matter what we're in, a game, a series, a quarter or just a play, I don't like to lose. I feel like I'm better than that just to let somebody dominate me. To go out there and let somebody do that to me ... that's a slap in the face to me."

Heh, heh. It was more than a slape in the face to Gurode. It was a size 16 shoe doing a Savion Glover number on his punkin haid.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 11, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

"PFT Reports Pats set to cut ties with T. Brady..."


Yo! We gotta get this guy!

I know he's coming off an injury, but hey, he might be worth it if he plays for the league minimun and is willing to back up JC.

Signing this Brady guy means we can cut a Collins, and have a vet to tutor Colt.

I can see the sidelines at WTF Field now with Tom Brady chilling with a clipboard, baseball cap, and photos of the opposing team's defensive fronts.


Posted by: MistaMoe | May 11, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

You're an idiot MistaMoe. Why would we take some scrub who just got cut? He'd be fifth string best behind Colt Brennan, Todd Collins, and Chase Daniel(no s!).

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 11, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

antonchigurh: "It ain't no mystery if you put a little thought to it. Outside of Avery and Swede it's the QBs. Jack, Royal and Nellie did well because they had good QBs. Avery was the only decent WR on the Rams. Swede was stuck behind Ward and Holmes (the famous "we draft for the future" Steeler mantra) and Hardy was doomed with the Bills' QB injuries and inconsistencies."

I dunno -- the Steelers' needed Sweed to do the same thing the Skins expected from their 3 second-rounders. There would have been a niche for him if he'd been healthy and could catch. Same with Hardy(there's a recurring theme here) but for the most part, he didn't catch much either, even in practice. Royal benefited from the QB and the presence of Brandon Marshall, and Jackson surely owed some of his success to McNabb, and Avery benefited from being the only game in town, but still -- those bigger guys did not come through. Except Nelson, to a lesser extent, who played on a very strong receiving corps with an inexperienced QB.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

MistaMoe, I would only sign Brady for the vet min. He did Nada last year! He needs to prove himself..

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 11, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

PFT Reports Pats set to cut ties with T. Brady......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 11, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse
I saw the same article. Turville Brady to be cut from Pat's janitor staff. We should sign him!

Posted by: frediefritz | May 11, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

The defense was not good in the 4th quarter because the offense was not good. It is going to be even worse this year. The Oline will be so bad my mid season the defense will be living on the field.

Taking Orakpo over Oher was a HUGE mistake!!!

There is no way Samuels makes it through the season or plays at a high level. His body is damn near shot. The RT spot will be a turnstile for the opposition. The only two players on the oline that will be decent are Rabach and Dockery.

After all of those big dollar acquisitions Danny boy is not going to be happy with 4th in the NFC East.

Posted by: srobert1117 | May 11, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

My favorite quote: "go ask the guys I play against if they feel I'm working hard." That says it all. The man's a beast, and he's gonna put a hurt on some mo-fo's this year. And God knows we're gonna need to have a dominant D, cause it looks like our offense has every chance of sucking arse once again.

Posted by: gringoinmiami | May 11, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Except Nelson, to a lesser extent, who played on a very strong receiving corps with an inexperienced QB.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 11:58 AM

Ahem. The dude had a 93.8 QB rating, sixth best in the NFL. I'll take that kind of "inexperience" any time.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 11, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Forgive me ahead of time if my football ignorance on the matter totally undercuts what I'm about to say:

DT has to be the easiest position to "learn", right? I mean, how many possible variations can there be to what you have to do?

--there is a lot of shifting, a new language of scheme-calling to learn, you have to know what the blitzes are going to be, linebacker stunts etc. You're right in principal but it's a lot to learn.

Posted by: WHUTTUP | May 11, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Except Nelson, to a lesser extent, who played on a very strong receiving corps with an inexperienced QB.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 11:58 AM

Ahem. The dude had a 93.8 QB rating, sixth best in the NFL. I'll take that kind of "inexperience" any time.


Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 11, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

In think the point was that it was rogers first year as a startin nfl qb. yes rogers produced results, but those good numbers don't make him and experience nfl qb.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 11, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

but those good numbers don't make him and experience nfl qb.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 11, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse
an experienced nfl qb. my bad

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 11, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

"Why would we take some scrub who just got cut?"

"I would only sign Brady for the vet min."

I know we all got jokes, but what could a guy like Tom Brady make in an uncapped NFL salary year?

Is he worth A Rod money, $30 million a season?

Is there any guy in the NFL who really is getting slammed financially behind the cap, guys who'd get a boatload of cash if there was no cap?

What's Larry Fitzgerald's worth in such a market? Is he worth Haynesworth money, $48 million deal?

Who do you pay more: A Boldin or S Moss or S Smith?

Is Big Ben with two rings underpaid if A Rod--with no rings but plenty of needles--gets $30 million in an uncapped sport?

Yeah, Brady's only worth the league minimum---for the league of those extraordinary gentlemen worth more paper than they can print.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 11, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

On the DT position:

I appreciate all the guys weighing in. I'm not trying to say that playing DT is outright "easy". But as far as "learning" the position, it seems to be the easiest one to have to learn if you are changing systems/teams, and I'm not sure I've heard anything to make me think otherwise.

I think this bodes well for us, b/c I hope AH can make a smooth transition and be the $48mill monster we hope for him to be...

Posted by: p1funk | May 11, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

a DT has to know the opponents scheme; not get caught in traps, screens,cutbacks, draws etc._ understand tendencies and in general be intuitive. now if you just want a battling bull get one but they won't win for you.

Posted by: aypub | May 11, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

You're an idiot MistaMoe. Why would we take some scrub who just got cut? He'd be fifth string best behind Colt Brennan, Todd Collins, and Chase Daniel(no s!).

Posted by: TheTruth11

Mista can't be an idiot. He was the first to point out the silliness of naming the stadium where the Dolphins after a shark.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 11, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

in addition! if the OL has to scheme ... who are they scheming against? it has to be matched.

Posted by: aypub | May 11, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

I saw the same article. Turville Brady to be cut from Pat's janitor staff. We should sign him!

Posted by: frediefritz | May 11, 2009 12:05 PM

I don't think he's willing to sweep for the vet. min. His agent says he's looking for a three-figure signing bonus. And you've got to believe if the Pats are cutting him, he doesn't have anything left in the tank. I'd steer clear of this bum.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 11, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Forgive me ahead of time if my football ignorance on the matter totally undercuts what I'm about to say:

DT has to be the easiest position to "learn", right? I mean, how many possible variations can there be to what you have to do?

Posted by: p1funk | May 11, 2009 10:35 AM

p1funk,

Your questions go to the point of why Greg Williams was an idiot. Here you have arguably one of the best defensive players in the League in Lavar Arrington and he comes with his schemes and all of a sudden Arrington dosen't know how to play anymore.

Figure that out.

Lavar and Albert both had and have tremendous ability to excell on the field without extensive structurized schemes.

Do you think Bill Parcells gave Lawrence Taylor a scheme on how to sack the quarterback? Don't think so.

What Albert Haynesworth is alluding to is the defensive scheme, the defensive playbook. He ain't alluding to the simplicity of lining up and crushing the man in front of him on the way to the quarterback.

He's got that part down cold. It is the lunacy of Defensive Gurus like Williams and there schemes.

Now to give Blatche a little credit he is talking about, and I'm glad, tailoring his scheme so that Albert can do what they brought him here to do.

You see Blatche is also guilty of overemphasing the scheme rather than the talents of the player.

I remember when we bought Wilbur Marshall in here and the only thing that kept him from doing here what he did in Chicago was the scheme.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | May 11, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Gee I hope Mr. Haynesworth and Mr. Blache get along.

Posted by: TheCork | May 11, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Your questions go to the point of why Greg Williams was an idiot. Here you have arguably one of the best defensive players in the League in Lavar Arrington and he comes with his schemes and all of a sudden Arrington dosen't know how to play anymore.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | May 11, 2009 12:37 PM

Woo-hoo! I just love a good LaVar Arrington discussion. Bring it on! This is Redskins Insider at its best!

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 11, 2009 12:40 PM | Report abuse

I ead a much better post, which may eventually make it past the "censors." It was held up. I can't for the life of me imagine why.

No cussin'. No insultin'. Sheesh.

Posted by: TheCork | May 11, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Except Nelson, to a lesser extent, who played on a very strong receiving corps with an inexperienced QB.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 11:58 AM

Ahem. The dude had a 93.8 QB rating, sixth best in the NFL. I'll take that kind of "inexperience" any time.


Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 11, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

In think the point was that it was rogers first year as a startin nfl qb. yes rogers produced results, but those good numbers don't make him and experience nfl qb.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 11, 2009 12:12 PM

Actually the point was that some WRs drafted in the 2008 draft did well because they had QBs that performed well. Jackson - McNabb, Cutler - Royal, Jordy - Rodgers. The QB's experience was never part of the discussion.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 11, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

The defense was not good in the 4th quarter because the offense was not good. It is going to be even worse this year. The Oline will be so bad my mid season the defense will be living on the field.

Taking Orakpo over Oher was a HUGE mistake!!!

There is no way Samuels makes it through the season or plays at a high level. His body is damn near shot. The RT spot will be a turnstile for the opposition. The only two players on the oline that will be decent are Rabach and Dockery.

After all of those big dollar acquisitions Danny boy is not going to be happy with 4th in the NFC East.

Posted by: srobert1117 | May 11, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse


You'll find many of us agreeing with you, but you are several weeks late. Those of us who feel likewise have already been screamed down by Sneratto's cronies that lurk on RI.

Bottom line is that our best hope is to turn into some NFC East version of the Ravens or Steelers.

I figure this:

Last year our D held opponents to 18.5 points per game. Let's say improvements on defense means we can generate maybe 0.5 more turnover per game, 1 more sack per game and hold teams to 3 fewer points per game.

Our offense averaged like 16-17 points per game. With improvements in field position and turnovers (thanks to our D), and assuming that the offense takes a reasonable step forward in its 2nd year in the system, meaning we settle for fewer red-zone FGs, let's say we can score one more TD per game than last year.

We give up 15 points and score 23-24 on average.

It's not pretty - the offense won't be fun to watch like the Cards or the Saints, but it can be effective.

Posted by: p1funk | May 11, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Lavar Burton

Posted by: slipperyrichard | May 11, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

It would be nice to get some new info and not the same garbage copy pasted from previous posts.

May 9th:

The Redskins' 4-3 defense is structured to stop the run foremost. Defensive tackles are assigned to maintain their run gap responsibilities while taking on blockers in an effort to help linebackers make big plays.

But Haynesworth did not play the role of a "space eater" with the Titans. He made many big plays always going after the ball, and that's what he plans to do with the Redskins.

May 11th:
The Redskins' 4-3 defense is structured to stop the run foremost. Defensive tackles are assigned to maintain their run-gap responsibilities while taking on blockers in an effort to help linebackers make big plays.

But Haynesworth did not play the role of a "space eater" with the Titans. He made many plays going after the ball, and that's what he plans to do with the Redskins.

Posted by: tsaxsteve | May 11, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

J"Lac got exposed !

Posted by: slipperyrichard | May 11, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

No cussin'. No insultin'. Sheesh.

Posted by: TheCork

Brevity is the other RI requirement -- I think it's there to boost the comment count (and maybe to minimize some of the gross plagarism).

Anyhoo, once it goes to the hold queue, it never comes out. Our dauphine has better things to do -- although why they don't put that Zach Bearmean guy on it is beyond me.

Posted by: daggar | May 11, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Now to give Blatche a little credit he is talking about, and I'm glad, tailoring his scheme so that Albert can do what they brought him here to do.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | May 11, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse


No he's not an idiot. And I don't just mean in terms of getting the most out his personnel. I think he knows that Snerrato bought this guy for big bucks and they want to see him do what he did in Tennessee...or else.

And if I remember, the issue with Lavar was primarily with linebackers coach at the time (I think his name was Lindsey?). I distinctly remember that they fired him after the "Free Lavar" season...stubborn position coaches do not win out against high-priced Pro Bowlers...this is not high-school.

Posted by: p1funk | May 11, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

You see Blatche is also guilty of overemphasing the scheme rather than the talents of the player.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD

YEAH. What was that idiot thinking? Taking a rag tag bunch of rejects, whirlpool queens and overachievers and turning them into a top four defense in the NFL...despite a pathetic offense?--THECORK


Your questions go to the point of why Greg Williams was an idiot. Here you have arguably one of the best defensive players in the League in Lavar Arrington and he comes with his schemes and all of a sudden Arrington doesn't know how to play anymore.

Figure that out.--LARRY IN CLINTON

I LOVE Arrington arguments, T_E has THAT right. What do you mean "Anymore?" Arrington never did know how to play NFL linebacker.

Gregg Williams isn't the only guy who saw Arrington for the Prima Donna self-proclaimed free-lance superstar he thought he was. So did JoPa at Penn State.

LaVar's primary talent was being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Most the time he didn't know it, because he didn't know where he was supposed to be. Why? Too busy studying his contract? Don't think so.

Aside from putting Aikman in the broadcast booth, and whine about having to rush from the DE position, Arrington did little positive for the Redskins.

Oh wait, he left. That was good.


Posted by: TheCork | May 11, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

J"Lac got exposed !

Posted by: slipperyrichard | May 11, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

This time it was JReid who got exposed...he's been hanging out too much with JLA and certain habits are rubbing off

Posted by: p1funk | May 11, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Haynesworth started out as a "space eater", but was told to "cut back a little" by his doctor.

Posted by: daggar | May 11, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Haynesworth is too big of an investment for the team for the Redskins to not place him in a position to maximize his talent.

If he and Orakpo are not used so that their effectiveness is maximized you won't see Greg Blache back as the DC.

The Redskins have some holes on their roster, but on defense the team now has potentially dominant talents on the DL (Haynesworth), linebacker (Orakpo) and backfield (Hall, Landry) so there will be more pressure on Blache in 2009.

Before he was mixing and matching together late round picks and overage vets to try and win, now he has better talent.

That creates expectations.

Posted by: leopard09 | May 11, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

OOPS Found the problem...Unfortunate spelling error. Fixed it:

Straight up, you can stunt, or on the rare occassion you drop back into a shallow zone coverage.

That's 4 things.

Enlighten me...

Posted by: p1funk

It only looks simple that if you believe Sumo is just two fat guys bumping into each other.

DT is moves and counter moves, studying the man opposite you, watching the guard to see if he's pulling, checking the o lineman's stance for tips (pass or run), watching the H-back, looking for crackbacks, learning how to playa against double teams, anticipating the double team and countering it.

A good DT not only must master the physical skills of the position but learn to read blockers, the backfield, the QB's cadence, stay situationally aware, learn to work with the players next to him and behind him, and not get distracted when the OG starts talking about his Mama.

It's not rocket surgery, but it's not as easy as it looks, either.


Posted by: TheCork | May 11, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Tom Brady is a winner who throws touchdown passes.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | May 11, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

I ead a much better post, which may eventually make it past the "censors." It was held up. I can't for the life of me imagine why.

No cussin'. No insultin'. Sheesh.

Posted by: TheCork | May 11, 2009 12:41 PM

No cussin? No insultin? Coming from you, this sounds like a plea for help. Cindy has probably called someone to come to your home and talk you through your crisis.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 11, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Coach Blache should stop being so stubborn and let his players make plays, even if they are outside the scope of his system. And I'm tired of hearing how we had a "top 10 defense" for 4 of the last 5 years. Defensive statistics are based on yards gained and are very deceptive. Where did our defense rank in the 4th quarter??? I bet we were toward the bottom of the league!! We need to be able to stop teams late in the game and isn't that why we brought Haynesworth here in the first place?

Posted by: paulstutz14 | May 11, 2009 10:57 AM |

Great Points. We ranked 5th in the League last year but when it came to shutdown critical stops becuase of our inept offense, we failed.

You see, in order to be a really good Defense the talents of the players must always rise above the scheme.

So Pualstutz14, you are absolutely correct, when your scheme even though good, does not allow your exceptional talents to dominate, Haynesworth, you always come up short.

And one last point that proves this argument, when Joe Gibbs came back to this Team and brought Greg Williams with him, the Single Biggest Star On This Team was Lavarr Arrington.

They shot his Star down for the sake of a Defensive Scheme and along with Arrrington they shot themselves in the foot also.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | May 11, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Aside from putting Aikman in the broadcast booth, and whine about having to rush from the DE position, Arrington did little positive for the Redskins.

Oh wait, he left. That was good.

Posted by: TheCork | May 11, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, those 3 Pro Bowl season were total CRAP! Good Riddance!

Posted by: p1funk | May 11, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

...Who do you pay more: A Boldin or S Moss or S Smith?

Is Big Ben with two rings underpaid if A Rod--with no rings but plenty of needles--gets $30 million in an uncapped sport?

Yeah, Brady's only worth the league minimum---for the league of those extraordinary gentlemen worth more paper than they can print.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 11, 2009 12:22 PM

The NFL should be run more like a government bureaucracy, say the military. Each round drafted represents a rank (1st round = E7, 2nd round =E6…), and each year ni the league represents a promotion (last year’s E7= this year’s E8, last year’s E9 = this year’s O1). Salaries should be published, with minor cost of living adjustments in for the local economy.
In that case, Santana Moss came in as a Sergeant First Class (SFC, like Rod Gardner). After 8 years, Moss is now a equivalent to a Colonel. Steve Smith (3rd round) started as a Sergeant and is now equivalent to a Major. Anquan Boldin would also be a Major based on his draft position and years in service.

The Skins, however, whould have to pay a stupidity penalty since they passed on all these receivers in favor of busts.

Doesn’t that make the pay scale easy?

2001 draft:
#15 Washington Rod Gardner, WR Clemson
#16 New York Jets (from Pittsburgh) - Santana Moss, WR Miami
(#77) Carolina, Steve Smith, WR, Utah

2003 draft:
12(44) Washington, Taylor Jacobs, WR Florida
22(54) Arizona (from New Orleans), Anquan Boldin, WR Florida State

Posted by: Alan4 | May 11, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

"Actually the point was that some WRs drafted in the 2008 draft did well because they had QBs that performed well. Jackson - McNabb, Cutler - Royal, Jordy - Rodgers. The QB's experience was never part of the discussion.

Posted by: AntonChigurh"

While it certainly factors into it, if it were that simple, Reggie Brown, Freddie Mitchell, Todd Pinkston, Billy McMullen, Hank Baskett, Jason Avant, Sinorice Moss, Mario Manningham, and Steve Smith would all be ballin', at some point, on the level that good ol' DeSean Jackson was last season (just to use some inter-divisional comparisons).

Unfortunately, it isn't that simple. DeSean Jackson can play. So can Donnie Avery. So can Eddie Royal. So can Jordy Nelson.

Devin Thomas not seeing more than 6 snaps a game until week 9 and being consistently beat out by James Thrash had nothing to do with who Jason Campbell was as a QB. Malcolm Kelly not being able to practice until week whatever didn't have anything to do with it either. And Fred Davis languishing behind Todd Yoder on the depth chart is not an indictment on his QB. Not in the least.

Some players get it quicker than others. DeSean Jackson and Eddie Royal were two of those players. Jay Cutler wasn't making Deangelo Hall trip over his own feet with the routes he was running in week 1. Meanwhile, Devin Thomas was still trying to figure out how to run a route without tripping his own teammate in the process by week 10. Just have to hope Thomas' progress is moving along as described this offseason.

Posted by: psps23 | May 11, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

It's not rocket surgery, but it's not as easy as it looks, either.

Posted by: TheCork | May 11, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse


I can appreciate the complexity of playing the position. I was more referring to transferring into a new scheme/team.

For instance, a cornerback that is used to playing in a Tampa-2 undergoes a pretty dramatic change if he's now expected to play man-coverage, b/c the schemes call for very different things.

I just can't imagine that the expectations of a DT change all that dramatically from scheme-to-scheme (except maybe going from a 3-4 to a 4-3) as compared to the other positions.

Posted by: p1funk | May 11, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

"They shot his Star down for the sake of a Defensive Scheme and along with Arrrington they shot themselves in the foot also.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD"

Nah, they just decided to go in a different direction. Most all defenses gear themselves to have one, maybe two playmakers provide the impact. Unfortunately for Lavar, he was the odd man out. GG geared his entire defense around one man -- Sean Taylor. And it was paying dividends until his unfortunate murder. When you let a man freelance, somebody has to do his dirty work. The Skins couldn't let both ST and Lavar do it at the same time. When it came down to it, ST was better suited to be "the guy".

Posted by: psps23 | May 11, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

His "Golly" comment reminds me of Steve Cox, the former punter and great long distance kicker (but not short range) the Skins had in the mid 80s (Browns, too).

Cox used to always say "Golly". There was even an article in the Post, I think, based on his use of the word.

Posted by: MikeNelmsReturns | May 11, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

antonchigurh: "Actually the point was that some WRs drafted in the 2008 draft did well because they had QBs that performed well. Jackson - McNabb, Cutler - Royal, Jordy - Rodgers. The QB's experience was never part of the discussion.Posted by: AntonChigurh"

I just noted Nelson, unlike DeSean and Royal, played with an inexperienced QB. Not a worse one. Just inexperienced.

But now that you mention the always controversial QB rating stat, here's how the QBs for those 2nd round WR picks stacked up:
Aaron Rodgers (Jordy Nelson)93.8
Jeff Garcia (Dexter Jackson)90.2
Don McNabb (DeSean Jackson) 86.4
Jay Cutler (Ed Royal) 86.0
Trent Edwards (James Hardy) 85.4
Jason Campbell (Devin Thomas) 84.3
Ben Rothlis: (Limas Sweed)80.1
Marc Bulger (Don Avery) 71.4
Ryan Fitzpatrick (Jerome Simpson) 70.1

You might argue that Rodgers helped Nelson, but how would you prove that McNabb or Cutler were significant factors in the rise of DeSean and Eddie? Those QBs weren't significantly better than Campbell and Trent Edwards. So how could they lift their guy so much higher? Couldn't you as easily argue that the receiver helped his QB's rating?

I'm not taking a position either way -- I don't know the answer. Just pointing out what the numbers suggest (and don't).

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

p1funk

All those things that posters have mentioned Albert already knows how to do. The thing that he has to learn is when to do those things withing the Redskins and playbook. He should not have a problem picking that up. I think the issue is the time it takes to adjust those things to account for his ability to be a disruptive force and not just a space eater. Basically the Redskins have not had someone that brought that to the table so they need to adjust to take full advantage of Albert's abilities.

Posted by: srobert1117 | May 11, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

"Nah, they just decided to go in a different direction. Most all defenses gear themselves to have one, maybe two playmakers provide the impact. Unfortunately for Lavar, he was the odd man out. GG geared his entire defense around one man -- Sean Taylor. And it was paying dividends until his unfortunate murder. When you let a man freelance, somebody has to do his dirty work. The Skins couldn't let both ST and Lavar do it at the same time. When it came down to it, ST was better suited to be "the guy".
Posted by: psps23"

That's actually a pretty fair analysis. Thanks for clarifying it.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

"I just can't imagine that the expectations of a DT change all that dramatically from scheme-to-scheme (except maybe going from a 3-4 to a 4-3) as compared to the other positions.Posted by: p1funk"

I don't think they do. Your initial question was about how difficult it was to learn the position. It's more difficult than it looks.

True dat.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

TheCork,

Don't know what Lavar Arrington you was watching. But the one I am talking about made more game changing plays to win games than any player since our SuperBowl players.

He even knew how to make an interception. How many of these wooden hands we have on defense have been steadily dropping passes for intercepts right in their hand. Arrington didn't do that.

When the last time we have been considered a Defense that creates turnovers? When Gregg came in the Defense rankings got better but turnovers went out the window.

Anyone that continues to believe that Arrington played out of position because he did not know where he was supposed to be are simply deluding yourselves.

Exceptional talents on Defense are always out of position, because they make a ton of plays. Arrington being out of position has never cost us a game that I know off.

However, him being out of position has cost us to win some games. You see you have these feeble minded coaches that donot understand that when the whistle blows, all bets are off.

So, if I have an exceptional talent on my Team like Lavar Arrington, you know he is going to bust some butt and Offenses knew that and most times than not he won.

And by the way, we had two Lavar Arrington types on our Team and it is a shame they did not get to play together longer. Sean Taylor was a Lavar Arrington type who played out of position also. Great players make plays, they don't play no 'Schemes'.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | May 11, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

"Last year our D held opponents to 18.5 points per game. Let's say improvements on defense means we can generate maybe 0.5 more turnover per game, 1 more sack per game and hold teams to 3 fewer points per game.Our offense averaged like 16-17 points per game. With improvements in field position and turnovers (thanks to our D), and assuming that the offense takes a reasonable step forward in its 2nd year in the system, meaning we settle for fewer red-zone FGs, let's say we can score one more TD per game than last year.We give up 15 points and score 23-24 on average.It's not pretty - the offense won't be fun to watch like the Cards or the Saints, but it can be effective.Posted by: p1funk"

I think that's pretty close to what they're hoping for. Last year they were effective moving the ball and stopping the other team (most of the time). THey were not effective at scoring TDs or putting pressure on the QB to create turnovers.

Do both those things and you're talking a very good record.

You notice who won the Super Bowl last season -- far from the best offense.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

"That's actually a pretty fair analysis. Thanks for clarifying it.

Posted by: Samson151"

And that's not to say that Lavar couldn't have been successful under Williams. A player of that talent and athletic ability would fall into turnovers, sacks, or other big plays simply by playing his role. I just don't think Lavar was satisfied playing second fiddle, and his stubbornness led to Williams being forced to take him out of the lineup at times. But when he swallowed his pride and did what he was supposed to (like in the stretch run in '05), that defense was dominant, bordering on elite.

Posted by: psps23 | May 11, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Bottom line is that our best hope is to turn into some NFC East version of the Ravens or Steelers.

Posted by: p1funk

I totally 100% completely agree (which is why I wanted Curry, a better player, over Orakpo). Still, if Orakpo turns into a beast, we'll be up there with the Steelers and Ravens for the best defense in the league (insert obligatory injury disclaimer).

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 11, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

One more TD a game is a pretty big assumption. I can't see us AVERAGING 7 more points a game than last year when we didn't add ANYONE on offense and are hoping that our current players step up, especially in the red zone.

That would bring us from 16.6 to 23.6, from bottom 5 to top 12 in the league. Can't see that big of a jump, even if we think our defense will provide more TOs.

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 11, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

"Nah, they just decided to go in a different direction. Most all defenses gear themselves to have one, maybe two playmakers provide the impact. Unfortunately for Lavar, he was the odd man out. GG geared his entire defense around one man -- Sean Taylor. And it was paying dividends until his unfortunate murder. When you let a man freelance, somebody has to do his dirty work. The Skins couldn't let both ST and Lavar do it at the same time. When it came down to it, ST was better suited to be "the guy".
Posted by: psps23"

That's actually a pretty fair analysis. Thanks for clarifying it.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 1:21 PM

I beg to differ. It just proves my point why Greg Williams was an idiot.

There is no way in Haydees that if as a Defensive Coordinator and I had both Sean Taylor and Lavar Arrington on my Team that I COULD NOT AND WOULD NOT figure out how to have the both of them ABSOLUTELY DESTROYING OFFENSES.

You got to kidding me.

LarryInClintonMD.

That's like them people that said David Robinson should have retired when Tim Duncan was drafted.

Absolutely ridiculous.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | May 11, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the props, LarryInClintonMD....
I do agree with some of the other commenters that our lack of offense contributed to our 4th-quarter breakdowns on defense. But the biggest problem has been that Williams and Blache had way too much faith in our front four getting to the QB and that just wasn't happening. Now, with Big Albert and our new stud Orapko, hopefully that will change.

Posted by: paulstutz14 | May 11, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Rypien11, you hit the nail on the head. Logically speaking, the offense will be exactly the same as it was last year. However, here are the variables:
1. A second year (continuity)
2. Do last year's rooks get into the game?
3. Does Zorn improving from a rookie coach?
4. Does JC17 gain steam in his 2nd year under Zorn?
5. Who is the new O-line, are they good, are they healthy?

There is potential for significant improvement, but nothing to really hand your hat on.

Posted by: Alan4 | May 11, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

hey, so are we signing DJ Hackett? I haven't heard anything about that.

Posted by: hokiesmokie | May 11, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

"There is no way in Haydees that if as a Defensive Coordinator and I had both Sean Taylor and Lavar Arrington on my Team that I COULD NOT AND WOULD NOT figure out how to have the both of them ABSOLUTELY DESTROYING OFFENSES.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD"

They did have that. At the end of '05, when Lavar humbled for a hot second, the defense was killer. We set the record for the worst offensive performance ever by a winning team in the playoffs. Why? Because our defense absolutely demolished Tampa (with ST scooping up a fumble for a TD). The week prior, ST did the same thing @ Philly just to get us to the playoffs. Then in the 2nd round, Lavar knocked Shaun Alexander, the current MVP, out cold in the 1st quarter. That was the defense Williams envisioned with both Lavar and Taylor wreaking havoc.

Unfortunately for Lavar, that wasn't good enough. Or maybe it was, but his contract dispute and minor-turned-major knee surgery is what did him in. Who knows.

Posted by: psps23 | May 11, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

This defense is good. I don't think its as good as its rating (#4) because it create turnovers and was really near the bottom of the league in that area (30th?). Though we didn't do well in sacks and turnovers, Blache did blitz a lot.

Get that turnover number up, and the defense moves up to elite quickly. Nothing creates turnovers like pressure and Albert will make a difference there. If Orakpo is also effective (which is a lot to hope for), then we should be much better at creating turnovers.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 11, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

I can see at least a touchdown a game more if a few things happen differently:

* Better starting field position
* One or more second year guys start yielding returns
* Soup gets his head outta his SJK a half a second earlier
* Oline stays healthier & new guys perform
* Coarch decides to do just that, instead of whine...


There were open enough guys on almost every bad play last year. Last year coulda shoulda woulda been different.

Ok - let's do it this year.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

And if I remember, the issue with Lavar was primarily with linebackers coach at the time (I think his name was Lindsey?). I distinctly remember that they fired him after the "Free Lavar" season...stubborn position coaches do not win out against high-priced Pro Bowlers...this is not high-school.

Posted by: p1funk | May 11, 2009 12:52 PM

p1funk,

Good PR move to blame it on the linebacker coach, but that idiotcy with Arrington had Greg Williams written all over it.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | May 11, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

"One more TD a game is a pretty big assumption. I can't see us AVERAGING 7 more points a game than last year when we didn't add ANYONE on offense and are hoping that our current players step up, especially in the red zone. That would bring us from 16.6 to 23.6, from bottom 5 to top 12 in the league. Can't see that big of a jump, even if we think our defense will provide more TOs.Posted by: Rypien11"

I think your argument helps to illuminate how close the gap is between the bottom 5 and the top 12. Another TD a game would make a huge difference in the outcome -- IF the numbers from 08 hold true next season. And that's a moderately big if.

The Skins were awful at scoring TDs last year. 28th in the NFL, tied with Oakland, 2 behind Detroit, and a rung above three awful offenses -- the Bengals, Browns, and Rams. When you're that bad at punching the ball in the end zone, you better have a better long-distance field goal kicker than the Skins did.



Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

I will never forget.........

Oct 21, 2001: Washington 17 Carolina 14 (ot). The Redskins snap a five game losing streak as Lavar Arrington returns an interception for a touchdown and Brett Conway kicks the winner in OT.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | May 11, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

that play did alter the rest of that season. Lavar had his issues, but he also had some great moments.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | May 11, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Haynesworth: "When you've always done everything a certain way, when that's the only way you've known, then it is a little different."

Let me translate: "When you are used to being a dominant lineman, playing a certain way that was successful, and your team is winning and then you go to the Redskins and they want you to do something else so you can lose, that's tough".

Why not make Orakpo a fulltime defensive end? Why try to ruin him by making him play lineman and linebacker? This team persistently has no respect for the line of scrimmage nor does it respect the importance of lineman.

Posted by: hz9604 | May 11, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

"Rypien11, you hit the nail on the head. Logically speaking, the offense will be exactly the same as it was last year."

The offense may be no better, but that's not because of logic. You don't assume that in the absence of personnel changes, things will remain the same. Sometimes they get worse, sometimes remarkably better. I guess you could say that's because a team is more (or sometimes less) than the sum of its parts.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

I believe the Skins made veteran minimum offers to both Kelly Washington and D.J Hackett. Both had tryouts scheduled with other teams [including the Ravens] and hope to sign for more money. They could still sign with the Skins if more lucrative contracts and [starting] opportunities are not offered...

Posted by: siris | May 11, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Imagine if we still had Lavar, Sean Taylor,then add Laron Landry and Orakpo. Jesus H Christ. We'd be unstoppable.

Posted by: FedorEm | May 11, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

why, oh why did the team not resign PIERCE!!!!!! DANGITT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 11, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Defensive Rankings need to be determined by Points Allowed/game first! Then other statistics follow.

I've seen teams with top 5 defensive rankings in yards allowed/game, turnovers/game, etc...not make the playoffs.

I've never seen a team ranked top 5 in points allowed, not make the playoffs.

Posted by: Vicc | May 11, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

"No cussin'. No insultin'. Sheesh"

You forgot, "No snitchin'"

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 11, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Imagine if we still had Lavar, Sean Taylor,then add Laron Landry and Orakpo. Jesus H Christ. We'd be unstoppable.

Posted by: FedorEm | May 11, 2009 2:04 PM

We'd be unstoppable if they played offense. On defense I think we'd be impenetrable. Or something like that.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 11, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

but, albert we haters like to jump all over every negative thing we can without investigating it at all...

we like to be uber-critical and act like we know how to make everything work better than the pros.

sorry

Posted by: pabrian2003 | May 11, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

They did have that. At the end of '05, when Lavar humbled for a hot second, the defense was killer. We set the record for the worst offensive performance ever by a winning team in the playoffs. Why? Because our defense absolutely demolished Tampa (with ST scooping up a fumble for a TD). The week prior, ST did the same thing @ Philly just to get us to the playoffs. Then in the 2nd round, Lavar knocked Shaun Alexander, the current MVP, out cold in the 1st quarter. That was the defense Williams envisioned with both Lavar and Taylor wreaking havoc.

Unfortunately for Lavar, that wasn't good enough. Or maybe it was, but his contract dispute and minor-turned-major knee surgery is what did him in. Who knows.

Posted by: psps23 | May 11, 2009 1:51 PM

Great point psps23.

I can accept that the contract dispute or his knee injury might have doomed both he and Taylor playing together, but I cannot accept the fact that keeps coming up that Arrington did not know his responsibilities on the Team.

I think your point is very well put.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | May 11, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Ah mannnnn!

Sean Taylor was going to be the greatest safety of our era!

'07-'08 season, he had 5 ints in 6 games played. ( I think he missed two games due to that injury he was rehabing when he was shot)

His death almost brought me to tears.

Posted by: Vicc | May 11, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

T_E - get OUTTA my HEAD! I was thinking same... lol

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

I agree with Redskins trying to be a bit flexible in their scheme.

It is not all about defensive stats. If AH is getting through and creating havoc in the backfield, it is going to energize the team and put W's in the columns.

If occasionally, a runner gets through, that is just the price we'd have to pay. I think the super-conservative approach (that of Gibbs) is not going to work anymore. We have to take chances both on offense and defense

Posted by: peaceful2008 | May 11, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

why, oh why did the team not resign PIERCE!!!!!! DANGITT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 11, 2009 2:06 PM |

What?!?!?! We didn't resign Pierce? You're kidding about this aren't you Greg? You probably made this up or got it off PFT.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 11, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

If the line is collapsing around Stompy getting through, then we won't need to worry about a runner 'cause there won't be any blockers. The LBs/Safeties will get 'em.

Much ado about nothing, methinks.

Golly, Let Stompy Play!

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Dr. Clinton,

I, too were shocked to see Lavar being held back form his instinctiveplay. Hope that won't happen with AH.

Dr. Peaceful

Posted by: peaceful2008 | May 11, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

te, if only I was......sigh....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 11, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

T_E - get OUTTA my HEAD! I was thinking same... lol

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 2:21 PM

You too? I can see myself as a pedantic nit-picker. Are you one of us too?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 11, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

heyward-bey tweeked a hammy

and

peria jerry hurt a knee

go for it haters

Posted by: pabrian2003 | May 11, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Ranked the most gased(1) ex-'skin:

Lavar
Ryan Clark
Walt Harris
Pierce
Torrence
D. Evans
Springs

1 - to be overzealous, hyper, high-strung.

Posted by: RedDMV | May 11, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

T_E - werd for werd.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Good golly, just THINK if we had kept Antonio Pierce, Ryan Clark, LaVar Arrington, Demetric Evans, Leigh Torrence... I can't even imagine it. Which is probably for the best.

Counting down to the day that the incumbent "owner's pet" Clinton Portis is cast aside, just like LaVar was, in an ugly parting of ways that makes everyone look bad. It's coming. *sigh*

Posted by: NateinthePDX | May 11, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Blache isn't going to throw away a scheme just for Albert. All good coaches look at their talent and adapt.

If Albert is commanding double teams, then there will be fewer gaps to manage. If Albert stuffs his gap and penetrates more, the LBs can get play closer to the line and a 3 yard gain turns into a 1 yard gain. Which means more 3rd and long situations, which is where you get the best shot at turnovers.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 11, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

I cannot accept the fact that keeps coming up that Arrington did not know his responsibilities on the Team.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD |

A number of pretty good linebackers have left the Redskins for greener pastures. But not once did a redskin comment, when asked if the team as worried he might tip off his NEW team on the playbook: "I don't think he knew the playbook. Yet that's what was said about LaVarr.

But then I'm sure there's people here who believe Devin Thomas knew where to line up last year, too.

Posted by: TheCork | May 11, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

First 8 games: 20.6 pts/gm
Last 8 games: 12.5 pts/gm

23 points per game is 'optimistic.' I'd settle for 21.

Posted by: bangkokben | May 11, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

A number of pretty good linebackers have left the Redskins

Pierce....than who??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 11, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

THIS is interesting...

Miami Dolphins have signed over Naming Rights to their stadium this year to singer Jimmy Buffet. (Really.)

In other news, the Redskins have named their post-game buffet table after Mike Williams.

Hey what could be better than to name a stadium after Buffet's beer. "Landshark Stadium."

There will also be a "Margaritaville" at the park.

What, no DWI Pavillion?

I'm sure the NFL will continue those spots it runs about their players working with the youngsters, too.

Posted by: TheCork | May 11, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

"I will never forget.........

Oct 21, 2001: Washington 17 Carolina 14 (ot). The Redskins snap a five game losing streak as Lavar Arrington returns an interception for a touchdown and Brett Conway kicks the winner in OT."

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 |

I was at that game and me and my friends were on the way out when Lavar made that play. We watched it on oneof the TVs in the concourse then went back to our seats.

I also was at the "draft party" at Fed Ex when Lavar and Chris Samuels were introduced. I remember him taking the microphone and bangin it agaisnt his hand then saying "this is gonna be Troy Aikman's head" after the crowd was chanting "We Want Dallas." Low and behold when Lavar hit him in Texas Stadium that year his head bounced off the turf just like he said.

I will never forget it and I will always appreciate Lavar for those moments. Sure, I wish things would have worked out differently and there is plenty of blame to go around but the Lavar bashing on here is getting pretty old. He was a phenomenal talent who had some good years and great moments but never realized his full potential due to injuries, clashing w/ coaches, contract etc. Its a shame but Im not gonna sit here and beat the guy up. Like I said, there is plenty of blame to go around on the whole situation. No need to sit here and cry about it or continually rip the guy.

Posted by: VaTerp1 | May 11, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Just my own belief, but the single most important unit of an entire team is the offensive line.

A strong OL allows you to run the ball and gives your QB time to make better decisions. It gives you a chance to run clock in the 4th quarter. Its what separates them men from the boys in the red zone. Its what keeps your QB healthy. It keeps your defense off the field over the course of a game, leaving them fresher in the 4th quarter and over the season.

And its where Vinny has invested the least. It why this team, despite having talents like Portis, Cooley and Moss, has an offense at considerable risk.

I'm not going to say Orakpo was a mistake vs Oher -- the Skins should have taken the better player -- but the failure of the team to draft OL talent over several years considerably weakens what is otherwise a very strong roster.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 11, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

ZZ,

When Gibbs 1.0 retired citing the new col. barg. agmt.'s nature as a major factor, I began to think the same thing.

The Pats are among the teams (Indy too) that continued to invest a larger portion of their budget to O Line than other teams.
The results speak for themselves.

..poor danny.. victim of Fantasy Football (see Dik Shuttle rants from 2007)

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

fedorem

'...Imagine if we still had Lavar, Sean Taylor,then add Laron Landry and Orakpo. Jesus H Christ. We'd be unstoppable...'

Unstoppable?

With Jesus Christ playing for our defense?

What position would he play?

Can he hit?

Will he return punts or break bread?

Will he point to himself or at the sky after making a great play?

We know he can walk on water, but can he blow up a smoke screen with a vicious tackle?

Moe sees the savior as a free safety who excels at stopping Hail Mary passes.

And if he gave up a long touchdown, he'd get upset to where all the sports writers could scribble is:

"Jesus Wept"

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 11, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

i know I'm late with this, but I just read Darnell Dockett wants out of Arizona.

I've never heard of some of the biggest names (Boldin, Dockett, and James) on a super bowl runner-up wanting to leave - the Cardinals making it to the SB must've been a fluke.

too bad the 'skins spent all their off-season money... would've like to see Dockett along with Haynesworth.. those two are just downright foul on the field - would've LOVED it!

although, they probably wouldn't have drafted Orakpo, or signed DeAngelo Hall either.

Posted by: RedDMV | May 11, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

hey, so are we signing DJ Hackett? I haven't heard anything about that.

Posted by: hokiesmokie | May 11, 2009 1:51 PM


If you came here looking for actual up to date news, think again.

Posted by: the_shocker1 | May 11, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

"One more TD a game is a pretty big assumption. I can't see us AVERAGING 7 more points a game than last year when we didn't add ANYONE on offense and are hoping that our current players step up, especially in the red zone. That would bring us from 16.6 to 23.6, from bottom 5 to top 12 in the league. Can't see that big of a jump, even if we think our defense will provide more TOs.Posted by: Rypien11"

+++

What do you mean we didn't add ANYONE on offense?

Roydell Williams, Mike Williams, Marko Mitchell...hello!

Seriously, I don't think it is all that far-fetched, though it is optimistic thinking. We got bogged down in the RZ alot last year. Even if we add 4 pts a game next year we are averaging about 21/game...

Posted by: p1funk | May 11, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

You might argue that Rodgers helped Nelson, but how would you prove that McNabb or Cutler were significant factors in the rise of DeSean and Eddie? Those QBs weren't significantly better than Campbell and Trent Edwards.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 1:19 PM

Cutler and McNabb weren't significantly better than Campbell and Edwards. That's patently ludricous. At one point it was an argument about how 1st year WRs tend to do well when they find themselves in an environment with a good QB and an established offensive system. Then you morphed it into something about QB inexperience and then something else about QB ratings in order to try and wriggle free. What's going to be next - the tensile strength of the QBs jock straps?

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 11, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Defensive Rankings need to be determined by Points Allowed/game first! Then other statistics follow.

I've seen teams with top 5 defensive rankings in yards allowed/game, turnovers/game, etc...not make the playoffs.

I've never seen a team ranked top 5 in points allowed, not make the playoffs.

Posted by: Vicc | May 11, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins were 6th in points allowed allowing 294, the Giants were 5th giving up only 292. I guess the skins missed the playoffs by two points.

The degree of dominance is not by what number your defense is ranked but the numbers that put you there.

Top 3 defenses: 14.67 pts/gm
Defenses 4 - 6: 18.31 pts/gm

Posted by: bangkokben | May 11, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

"I will never forget it and I will always appreciate Lavar for those moments."


If Gibbs and Grilliams don't ever come in, would Lavar ever had gone out?

Doubt it.

Perhaps the issues they had with Lavar was one of those 'old school, new school' deals where the coaches decided to put a guy in his place simply because they had the power.

But they're all goners now, and my best memory of Lavar is from when he was at Penn State.

He flew over a blocker and crushed the runner the guy was supposed to protect.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 11, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Darnell wants to be 'shown the money'.

He, like Boldin, isn't going anywhere.

And we don't need any more 'stud' added to the defense.

We need a servicable second receiver and a real offensive linemen and not guys who point guns a pole dancers.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 11, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Va, Re: Lavar, it couldn't have been said better.

Lavar ripping is beyond gassed up here, as he's been gone for going on three years.

lig

Posted by: RedDMV | May 11, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Imagine if we still had Lavar, Sean Taylor,then add Laron Landry and Orakpo. Jesus H Christ. We'd be unstoppable.

Posted by: FedorEm | May 11, 2009 2:04 PM

That last guy, middle initial H, I don't think he ever played for Skins, or even a football team. I think he was a golfer. I hear alot of people yelling at him on the golf course.

Posted by: dcsween | May 11, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

lmao @ sween.

Actually, there is an algorythm that decodes Jesus H. Christ into: Sammy Baugh

Strange is Truther than Fact!

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

"We need a servicable second receiver and a real offensive linemen and not guys who point guns a pole dancers."

Dont most guys in his situation point their "gun" at pole Dancers? I just hoped he had his sheathed, some of those poles are pretty dirty.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | May 11, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

We'd be unstoppable if they played offense. On defense I think we'd be impenetrable. Or something like that.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 11, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Yeah I couldn't think of the right word, but Fort Knox comes to mind now. No one would move the ball. Concussions galore.

Posted by: FedorEm | May 11, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

impervious? Stalwort? Unassailable? Invincable?

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins were 6th in points allowed allowing 294

Posted by: bangkokben | May 11, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for proving my point; I bet the top 5 in points allowed made the playoffs, funny as it works.

We all have different methods of calculating, but the only thing that matters is the final result.

Posted by: Vicc | May 11, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

DT has to be the easiest position to "learn", right? I mean, how many possible variations can there be to what you have to do?

Posted by: p1funk | May 11, 2009

Sheesh, the guy has the talent to play ANY position on the defensive line. Doubtless, he may be ONE GUY you could actually trust to drop back in coverage on those schemes that call for confusing the line as to who is coming and who is not.

In other words, he is not a traditional defensive tackle in any sense of the word. According to his coaches he is very intelligent however does not like to be hampered by schemes/packages that call for him to maintain discipline, to stay in a lane to act as a "space eater". He is far too talented for that.

So, the approach taken in Tennessee was to play him at defensive end on many passing downs. Moving him up and down all the positions on the line doing stunts with DE Van den Bosch. In other words, they resurrected the famed "53" defense that someone here regaled us with from the old 1972 16-0 Miami dolphins.

Blache has plenty of good traditional defensive tackles. He has fewer really good defensive ends. His line backing needs some help this year. He has been given a GAME CHANGER, a true impact player. Plus a potential game changer in-training in Orapko. Its up to Blache to put them in situations where they will be able to change games. It should be fun for Blache even with the pressure from on high to produce. No excuses, these are not "older" players past their primes ... both are young and in their prime. Me thinks the defensive coaching staff will be doing a lot of brainstorming with the assumption that the success of the coming season is going to fall squarely in their labs.

Posted by: periculum | May 11, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

There are boo coo receivers on the team that are young and talented.

i was just reading up on Heywood-Bey from MD. it seems that consensus with him is that, he'll have a steep learning curve, but he's too talented to give up on before the season starts - that receivers usually take a longer than other to grasp the talent and speed they'll face at the NFL level.

the same should be said for Kelly and Thomas. give these guys some time, i think it's idiotic to call the busts after one damn season.

Jerry Rice: 49 catches; 927 yds.; 3 TDs
Marvin Harrison: 64 catches; 836 yds.; 8 TDs
Terrell Owens: 35 catches; 520 yds.; 4 TDs
Cris Carter: 5 catches; 84 yds. 2 TDs
Issac Bruce: 21 catches; 272 yds.; 3 TDs
Andre Reed: 48 catches; 637 yds.; 4 TDs

Just a few of the greatest WRs I've seen play (don't remember Monk) -- their numbers weren't all that great their first season, especially Cris Carter. If Kelly and Thomas can become half of what Cris Carter was I'd be more than satisfied.

Posted by: RedDMV | May 11, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Let's hire Eddie Van Halen to play for the Skins marching band.

He can play Barre Chords!

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

When did Jesus H. Christ play for the Redskins? And was he as good as the famous Jesus Christ?

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 11, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins were 6th in points allowed allowing 294

Posted by: bangkokben | May 11, 2009

Thanks for proving my point; I bet the top 5 in points allowed made the playoffs, funny as it works.

We all have different methods of calculating, but the only thing that matters is the final result.

Posted by: Vicc | May 11, 2009

I think it may be a lot easier than that. Its why they went for Haynesworth and Hall. Its about turnovers ... both committing and forcing. Jason Campbell was very good at not committing them last year. That part was good. But on the defensive side of the ball they did not get many interceptions, force fumbles, and a sack can be the next best thing to a turnover. If you compare last year's defense to the top 3 defense's just in front, and those just behind you will undoubtedly find that they had a far better turnover ratio.

Posted by: periculum | May 11, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Gotta put my 2 cents in on the LA argument. The only good year he had was when we were playing Marty ball. Schottenheimer didn't let him free lance, had him play some DE and he had the best season of his carreer, and whined about it. Whined so long that the coach got fired. he went back to his old undisciplined ways, and stunk again. Teams used his aggression and out of control play to set up their big plays every game.

As for bringing Sean Taylor into the argument... shame on you. Sean Taylor did play like LA when he was a rookie. Each year he got more disciplined, especially when he realized how LA's play hurt the team. He also got a mentor at the other safety position (who we stupidly let go to Pittsburgh). Sean had turned the corner and was the best Safety in football. RIP Reaper!

Posted by: dbrine1261 | May 11, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

beaucoup = a lot, many, much in slang terms

boo coo = what pigeons did while watching the Skins o-line last year

Posted by: learnedhand1 | May 11, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

reddmv: "i was just reading up on Heywood-Bey from MD. it seems that consensus with him is that, he'll have a steep learning curve, but he's too talented to give up on before the season starts - that receivers usually take a longer than other to grasp the talent and speed they'll face at the NFL level."

Good point. He definitely went too high, but it was Oakland, and they're a team that wants to throw deep and has one asset nobody else does -- the QB with the strongest arm ever. I mean, have you see this guy throw? He has to dial it back on a sixty yard post pattern. Plus like Roethlisberger, he's one of those big men that will stand there and stand there waiting for the receiver to come open, with guys hanging off his legs...

In other words, it's something of a unique situation. Darius doesn't run patterns well and he drops balls, but he's big and very fast and if he just outruns people like he did in college, their QB will find him.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Attitude. Haynesworth has it, and if that can rub off on the other guys on defense that will make this defense migrate from very good to downright nasty. Haynesworth may have issues with letting his "attitude" get out of control, but I think I like the spark he is going to give this team. His abilities are just icing on the cake. Blache will use him and use him well. I don't think we have to worry about adjustments to the scheme. Blache evolves his game plans to take advantage of his player's abilities. Does anyone remember how in the Dallas game he had London Fletcher playing fifteen yards back from the line of scrimmage? It was because Fletcher has such good vision and takes such great angles that Blache had confidence to put him back there to disrupt Dallas' passing attack. In that first game against the Giants he had been playing the defensive lineman too wide and he drew them in to help stop the run. Blache knows how to adjust his game plan. Haynesworth is really going to benefit from it. I just hope his attitude helps bring guys like Carter and Griffin to a whole new level, and gives rookie Orakpo and edge he can carry around for the rest of his career.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | May 11, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Just my own belief, but the single most important unit of an entire team is the offensive line.

A strong OL allows you to run the ball and gives your QB time to make better decisions.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 11, 2009

It all goes back to turnovers which is the critical stat, the difference maker, the thing that separates winners and losers.

A good OL allows the quarterback the time to complete passes, and throw far fewer interceptions. They also greatly reduce the number of sacks which are the next best thing to a game changing turnover. They facilitate the running game which again reduces turnovers and exhausts even the best defenses causing them to make game changing mistakes.

On defense it is just as vital to get those turnovers, those forced fumbles, interceptions and sacks!! The more turnovers and sacks you get the more likely you are to win the game.

Its vintage George Allen.


Posted by: periculum | May 11, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

I think it may be a lot easier than that. Its why they went for Haynesworth and Hall. Its about turnovers...

Posted by: periculum | May 11, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

I've looked at turnover ratio and the numbers confirm my thoery.

The top 5 ranked teams in turnover ratio have made the playoffs.

I'm not sure if it is an easier road though, cuz it's contingent upon 2/3 of the team working great versus 1/3 of the team working great to achieve making the playoffs.

Posted by: Vicc | May 11, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

"When did Jesus H. Christ play for the Redskins? And was he as good as the famous Jesus Christ?Posted by: 4thFloor"

Jesus Huey Christ, QB Washington Redskins, 31AD (preseason only). Only designated deep end-zone passer in ancient NFL history. Played exclusively at end of half and game, tossing 'Hail Mary' pass to up to 12 receivers. For some reason, was never penalized for having too many men on field. Refs fell to knees when he appeared. When questioned about apparent favored treatment from officials, Huey was known to shrug and say: "I don't think of them as rules. They're more like guidelines." Huey played only that one season, completing 24 such Hail Mary passes, often after multiple deflections that astonished the crowd and made losing coaches weep with despair (he made a point of crossing to the opposite sideline to forgive them for any profanity). Despite his success, retired abruptly at the end of the '31 season saying only that 'I can't stand another training camp bed check. Makes me feel like a freakin' teenager.'

SOURCE: NFL.com/ancient/who's_huey?

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

beaucoup = a lot, many, much in slang terms

I think it means "very much", as in merci beaucoup? Literally means beautiful hit, strike or blow. Good way to describe a great tackle or sack.

Posted by: periculum | May 11, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Oh LarryInClintonMD, oh Larry, Larry, Larry...

"I remember when we bought Wilbur Marshall in here and the only thing that kept him from doing here what he did in Chicago was the scheme."

Apparently you don't remember. At ALL.

Yes Wilbur's SACK numbers did drop with the Redskins, but during each season with DC his forced fumbles, fumbles recovered, ints, and batted ball totals ALL went up significantly. His tackle total went up a little.

In the drive to SB XXvI the man damn near put away three games by himself. All the scheme did was oh, make him a more complete player. Who would want that?

[Of course I ALMOST think Petitbone could STILL coach about 14 or 15 of us from this blog into a middle of the pack defense, so there IS that...]

Larry 0-1

"Don't know what Lavar Arrington you was watching. But the one I am talking about made more game changing plays to win games than any player since our SuperBowl players."

I was watching the LaVar Arrington who was constantly over persuing the QB which led to numerous flat passes completed right over him and many almost straight ahead runs going right through the area where he was SUPPOSED to be.

Oh he changed games alright, but more often for the worse than the better.

Larry 0-2

I also dispute that he was the biggest game changer [offense see: RB-Davis, Stephen] (since our Super Bowl Players) even on defense. [See: CB-Bailey, Champ].

Larry 0-3

How about the late hits in and out of bounds? While not out of position fouls Those cost us a game or two by extending drives.

Larry 0-4

"Exceptional talents on Defense are always out of position, because they make a ton of plays."

Ummm, NO. Exceptional players are always in or near the right position...and THAT is why they make plays.

Add to that in his 6 seasons here only THREE of them did he play all 16 games [16, 14, 16, 16, 4, 12] (and with the Giants 4). NOT the sign of a "dominant force" to not even be on the field, right?

He was a beastly hitter, but lacked a lot of the other tools needed to be a truly elite linebacker. It's okay, it doesn't make him a bad person. Just not what a lot of people think he was.

Commentator: Oh Larry's cut, it's a bad cut, I don't think even the bell can save him here...

Posted by: ThinkingMan | May 11, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't be surprised, though, to find that most Superbowl winners are probably in the top 2 ranked teams in terms of turnover ratio.

that being said, I will study it...somewhere, sometime..not soon

Posted by: Vicc | May 11, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

The two superbowl teams have a season record of most games played.

...wow...

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

"Haynesworth may have issues with letting his "attitude" get out of control, but I think I like the spark he is going to give this team."

I always thought that having anger issues or being "a little off" isn't always a bad thing.

Figure out who and what you are; embrace all what makes you.

Look at Kevin Garnett. Since he's known for being, um, insane, the NBA refs let him get away with more than what they let the 7th dude off the bench get away with.

Kevin knows how to channel it, and when to apply it. He uses his "offness" to his advantage.

The entire team will be a benefactor to Hayney's "offness".

Posted by: RedDMV | May 11, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

"I've looked at turnover ratio and the numbers confirm my thoery.The top 5 ranked teams in turnover ratio have made the playoffs."

Not surprising. But the thing is, teams that live and die with turnovers, often die in the playoffs when the TOs dry up.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

it was Oakland, and they're a team that wants to throw deep and has one asset nobody else does -- the QB with the strongest arm ever. I mean, have you see this guy throw? He has to dial it back on a sixty yard post pattern. Plus like Roethlisberger, he's one of those big men that will stand there and stand there waiting for the receiver to come open, with guys hanging off his legs...

In other words, it's something of a unique situation. Darius doesn't run patterns well and he drops balls, but he's big and very fast and if he just outruns people like he did in college, their QB will find him.

Posted by: Samson151

Most impressive throw from JaMarcus? It was 50 yards. He was sitting on the ground. And he threw it 50 yards.

With Bey on board, the Raiders could diagram plays where the QB is supposed to throw it 75 yards. Probably won't win many games, but it'd be fun to watch.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 11, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Now that you mention TO margin: if I'm reading the stat correctly, here were the top teams in 08:
Miami +17
Titans +14
Ravens +13
Giants and Colts +9
GB +7
Panthers +6
Bears/Browns/Chiefs +5
Steelers/Chargers/Bucs +4

The Skins finished at 0 -- along with the Cards.

The worst were Denver (-17), Dallas (-11), and Houston (-10).

Funny that two teams without a lot of TOs (Pitt and Arizona) wound up in the SB.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Gotta put my 2 cents in on the LA argument. The only good year he had was when we were playing Marty ball. Schottenheimer didn't let him free lance, had him play some DE and he had the best season of his carreer, and whined about it. Whined so long that the coach got fired. he went back to his old undisciplined ways, and stunk again. Teams used his aggression and out of control play to set up their big plays every game.

As for bringing Sean Taylor into the argument... shame on you. Sean Taylor did play like LA when he was a rookie. Each year he got more disciplined, especially when he realized how LA's play hurt the team. He also got a mentor at the other safety position (who we stupidly let go to Pittsburgh). Sean had turned the corner and was the best Safety in football. RIP Reaper!

Posted by: dbrine1261 | May 11, 2009 3:25 PM

So what you saying Dbrine1261 undercuts all those comments that LA was not a student of the game. If under Marty ball LA played a structured game and had his best season as you say, then that says to me that Marty Schottenheimer schemes worked a hellava lot better that than Greg William's.

Or, was Greg and his boys disengenius and used LA as a scapegoat.

And if ST saw the effectiveness of being more in control on the field and Lavar was moreso this way under Marty, then what was Gregs problem.

For nobody is insisting, and certainly not I, that you can't also be a roving son of gun on the field with the proper structure.

Bases on your comments, it appears that Defense Guru Greg Williams's schemes did not work for Lavar Arrington, but Marty Schottenheimers did.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | May 11, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Elite athletes from all sports share one common trait. They all hate to loose. That's their motivation.

So when I hear Albert saying "I hate to loose." Twice, no less.

It's music...this cat sounds the real deal.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | May 11, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Well done, Samson151:

Yeah, that's why I typically like Defensive Dominance, specifically in terms of points allowed per game.

Posted by: Vicc | May 11, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

blog is dead today.

should've known when the lavar talk commenced.

carry on.....

Posted by: RedDMV | May 11, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Perky, did you not notice that I said "in slang terms." The slang term is derived from "very much" which by extension means "a lot." Example: Albert Haynesworth has beaucoup (pronounced boocoo as opposed to bowcoo) bucks.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | May 11, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

From ESPN: "MIAMI -- The Miami Dolphins are renaming their home Landshark Stadium ..." Heh, heh. So if some dude named Joey "Ice Pick" Gigante buys the team will they rename it "Loanshark Stadium"? Fixing the signage would be pretty simple. Swap out the "d" for an "o" and rearrange the "a" and the "n".

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 11, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

But Red, this is the day you were waiting for. I told you what would happen after the draft. All topics are open.

My topic of the day is should Ms. Cali keep her crown just because she only prefers opposite marriage as opposed to same sex marriage....

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 11, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

Cooley is going to be on Total Access today or tomm......

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 11, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

But Red, this is the day you were waiting for. I told you what would happen after the draft. All topics are open.

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 11, 2009 4:35 PM

Totally. First up, a couple of girls ... and a cup.

Posted by: dcsween | May 11, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

My topic of the day is should Ms. Cali keep her crown just because she only prefers opposite marriage as opposed to same sex marriage....

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 11, 2009 4:35 PM

I think she should keep her crown for demonstrating again that beauty pageant winners should be seen and not heard (or read), such as ...

Posted by: dcsween | May 11, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

Mista can't be an idiot. He was the first to point out the silliness of naming the stadium where the Dolphins after a shark.
Posted by: zcezcest1

The feng-shui on that move is just wrong. It would be like the Skins playing at "U.S. Cavalry Stadium". .

With Bey on board, the Raiders could diagram plays where the QB is supposed to throw it 75 yards. Probably won't win many games, but it'd be fun to watch.
Posted by: zcezcest1

And that's what the Count is looking for: exciting big play circus to make up for a losing team..Kinda like the ol' Skins of Sonny and Charley T. where the draw was the high scoring games, as we had no defense..

Posted by: frak | May 11, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

blog is dead today.

should've known when the lavar talk commenced.

carry on.....

Posted by: RedDMV | May 11, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Now that you know, please don't make the same mistake twice.

Yea, this blog is much more interesting when clueless users post useless clues or anecdotes to football success.

Posted by: Vicc | May 11, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

ThinkingMan,

Thats very good. Wilbur Marshall did do all those things while he was here, but his performance here pailed in comparison to what he did in Chicago. Our defense did not sparkle like we anticipated with him being brought on as the $6M man.

As to Lavar overpursuing QB's and offenses beating us for huge gains because of his play.

How do you overpursue a quarterback? Oh you run his ass around the field and miss the tackle, or you come so quick you miss the tackle. Boy I would have love to have seen some of that these past years. Thats not necessarily a bad thing ThinkingMan.

Davis and Bailey made plays but I would not put either of them ahead of Arrington. That they were better is an open discussion.

Hits out of bounds causing us games is a huge stretch. Don't think that assertion holds water atall.

And if I am correct, wasn't he mostly a linebacker? The last time I checked linebackers play all over the field and the great ones make plays all over it too.

If you play a scheme and nobody breaks it, the Offense will always beat you.

If you play a scheme and a player gets beat and everybody else holds there position which is what happened under Greg Williams, you got a scapegoat. Nobody dared break the scheme under Williams for fear of what would happen to them.

If you play a scheme and the play breaks down, or a player gets beat, and the Defense adjusts to the play on the field, you just might have a winning scheme.

When Greg Williams came here only the scheme was allowed and our Defense did not make plays as a whole, because schemes do not make plays, Players do.

A big part of the ineffectiveness of one Lavar Arrington is attributal during the GG years is the stubborness to not fit the scheme to an outstanding defensive player, but rather to try to fit an outstanding player to a scheme.

That was idiocy.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | May 11, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Mista can't be an idiot. He was the first to point out the silliness of naming the stadium where the Dolphins after a shark.

Posted by: zcezcest1

The feng-shui on that move is just wrong. It would be like the Skins playing at "U.S. Cavalry Stadium" ...

Posted by: frak | May 11, 2009 4:44 PM

Don't be gulled by his idiotsyncracy. Landsharks prey on nubile chicks, not dolphins. Now if they was going to call the place "Great White" then you might have a case, albeit one of Landshark Lager.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 11, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

blog is dead today.

should've known when the lavar talk commenced.

carry on.....

Posted by: RedDMV | May 11, 2009 4:25 PM

I guess thats partly my fault, but it is really not about Lavar Arrington at all. If you had followed closely it is about Albert Haynesworth and schemes, which is the subject of this blog.

LA got thrown because of the fact that Blache runs a scheming defense and he indicated that he would tweak his scheme to allow Albert to do what he is best at.

Then in response to this comment by AH,

"The guys are all great guys, everyone has been cool, I just have to get used to doing some things a different way. When you've always done everything a certain way, when that's the only way you've known, then it is a little different. But I'm not worried about it."

someone commented about a defensive tackle being one of the easiest positions to learn.

Course then defensive scheming came into play and LA was pulled as an example, it being said he could not learn schemes and hence you have what you have seen so far.

Check it out more closely. It is rather interesting, if I must say so myself.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | May 11, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

blog is dead today.

should've known when the lavar talk commenced.

carry on.....

Posted by: RedDMV | May 11, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Now that you know, please don't make the same mistake twice.

Yea, this blog is much more interesting when clueless users post useless clues or anecdotes to football success.


Posted by: Vicc | May 11, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

What like your posts always are vicc?

Posted by: leevi98 | May 11, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Jay Cutler wasn't making Deangelo Hall trip over his own feet with the routes he was running in week 1.

Posted by: psps23 | May 11, 2009 1:01 PM

Deangelo Hall running routes? WTF?

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 11, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

I'm down with ALBERT. Great put-down, "Ask the guys I"m playing against if I'm playing hard." He's going to earn his keep and then some and I'm going on the record right now - he's "MONEYSWORTH", and he'll be proving it on a football field near you soon.

Posted by: glawrence007 | May 11, 2009 5:56 PM | Report abuse

Who gets cut? D-LINE:

DANIELS-ORAKPO-WILSON-JACKSON, HAYNESWORTH-GOLSON-ALEXANDER, GRIFFIN-MONTGOMERY, CARTER-WYNN-BUZBEE

Posted by: glawrence007 | May 11, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and the cannon-fodder enlisted after the draft for HAYNESWORTH et.al. to beat up on in practice.

Posted by: glawrence007 | May 11, 2009 6:06 PM | Report abuse

We didn't bring Haynesworth here to collapse the pocket and all that. Our DTs did fine collapsing the pocket last year, the problem was they didn't do it while demanding a double team (pause). This year, they have to at least double Hayneworth on each play, probably griffin to if he's healthy, leaving one olineman for the two DEs, who last year were doubled in all passing situations. Basically with haynesworth we will have 3 one on one matchups only rushing four guys, meaning teams will have to keep route runners in to block our guys. I'm excited to see what we can do, Blache should look into a 3 DT system (any combo Hayneworth, Griffin, Monty and Golston) on running downs, keep carter or orakpo at LB and let them loose, rush those five and you either overpower them or somebody comes free. Theres so much we can do

Posted by: DaFunBunch | May 11, 2009 6:08 PM | Report abuse

glawrence

Who gets cut? D-LINE:

DANIELS-ORAKPO-WILSON-JACKSON, HAYNESWORTH-GOLSON-ALEXANDER, GRIFFIN-MONTGOMERY, CARTER-WYNN-BUZBEE

Buzbee: can he be stashed on the practice squad?

And you forgot about the JMU kid they signed.

The next very good question is which offensive linemen will make the team.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 11, 2009 6:41 PM | Report abuse

Actually, I didn't see our DEs doubled much at all last year. That was part of the problem. Watching Carter, he was almost never doubled. Instead, he made the guys that blocked him look like HOF players

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 11, 2009 6:44 PM | Report abuse

The next very good question is which offensive linemen will make the team.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 11, 2009 6:41 PM |
=============================================

I would vote in favor of weekly Mike Williams weigh-ins.

Think of the entertainment, the gambling possibilities! Summer would go quickly.

Plus it might help with the incentive: I think he needs to get down to 350 to make the roster and possibly make a difference.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | May 11, 2009 7:21 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone see #52 Mike Green. He has been missing from the playoffs and if you have seen him please notify the Caps FO and fans.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 11, 2009 7:25 PM | Report abuse

The next very good question is which offensive linemen will make the team.

Posted by: MistaMoe ****

Bridges and Williams make the squad. From the lightest to one of the heaviest O-lines in a 1 year transition.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | May 11, 2009 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Thunder,
That's genius.

I would love it if Jason, Jason or maybe Cindy could sweet talk Mike W into doing some kind of weigh in.

He could weigh in on all kinds of topics too, get an insider sound byte to go with the magic number...

genius.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | May 11, 2009 7:38 PM | Report abuse

You could sell space on his tee shirt during the weight in...

probably four or five ads on each shirt.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | May 11, 2009 7:41 PM | Report abuse

He could weigh in on all kinds of topics too, get an insider sound byte to go with the magic number...

genius.

Posted by: _Stumped ******

genius?

Easily inmpressed are we? Wow, just omg, wow!

Posted by: lsskinsfan | May 11, 2009 7:41 PM | Report abuse

"...blog is dead today..."

That's for certain.

And until there's some new news, that's pretty much is going to be the case for a lil bit.


Posted by: MistaMoe | May 11, 2009 7:44 PM | Report abuse

Come on ISF, lighten up, have some fun with it. We're talking Animal House kind of genius here.

Anything to keep us entertained in the off-season.


Posted by: _Stumped_ | May 11, 2009 7:44 PM | Report abuse

I've been talking about a daily Mikey weigh-in for weeks since Vinny is counting so HEAVILY on him this season. I would like to add that the advertising and weighing in on topics is a nice addition.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 11, 2009 7:49 PM | Report abuse

'...Bridges and Williams make the squad...'


As what: back up tackle and guard or starting guard and tackle?

Does Rhino get cut in this process?

What about Burley and E. Williams?

What are the prospects that what's listed below is the starting offensive redskins' line sometime after injury/ineffectiveness kicks in around midseason:


lt-- Samuels
lg-- Dockery
c-- Rabach
rg-- Williams
rt-- Bridges


The only 'big if' in this proposition is M Williams getting into shape and having enough in the tank to be a more than effective player.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 11, 2009 7:51 PM | Report abuse

I was kidding Stumped. Definitely slow nes days now. Sorry if I offended anyone. JK all.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | May 11, 2009 7:55 PM | Report abuse

Anyone old enough to remember the band Marillion? I have just now rediscovered them after 20 years or so. I forgot how much I loved the album, yes album, "Misplaced Childhood."

Posted by: lsskinsfan | May 11, 2009 7:57 PM | Report abuse

No Offense.
...wait that's one of the problems.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | May 11, 2009 7:57 PM | Report abuse

Exactly, Stumped! No Offense.........

Posted by: lsskinsfan | May 11, 2009 8:01 PM | Report abuse

lt-- Samuels
lg-- Dockery
c-- Rabach
rg-- Williams
rt-- Bridges


The only 'big if' in this proposition is M Williams getting into shape and having enough in the tank to be a more than effective player.

Posted by: MistaMoe

Mista...I know you mentioned 'big if'...

Do really think there is a better chance of the the 4th pick in the 2002 draft getting into shape and playing guard....OR would you bet that Randy Thomas stays healthy and returns to his just below pro bowl form. Given that in the last 10 Years Mike Williams is the only OL bust in the top 15 of the draft and literally eat himself out of the league and is the poster boy for a rookie wage scale.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 11, 2009 8:04 PM | Report abuse

diesel

'..would you bet that Randy Thomas stays healthy and returns to his just below pro bowl form..'

I bet on Rhino 'getting it' and stepping in and providing to be a player.

You're right about Williams, though.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 11, 2009 8:11 PM | Report abuse

You could sell space on his tee shirt during the weight in...

probably four or five ads on each shirt.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | May 11, 2009 7:41 PM | =============================================

Who said anything about shirts?

~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | May 11, 2009 8:18 PM | Report abuse

I figure that you can attack one of two gaps, you can play a man straight up, you can stunt, or on the rare occassion you drop back into a shallow zone coverage.

That's 4 things.

Enlighten me...

Posted by: p1funk | May 11, 2009 10:44 AM
_____________________________________

P1Funk,

You are 100% correct. DT is THE EASIEST position on the football field to learn the defense for. That said, its not the easiest to play, but the easiest to learn. Many responded to your original question saying there was a lot more to it like RIP moves and bullrushes, but those aren't parts of the defensive scheme. They don't call the play in and as part of it tell a DT to rip A gap. Those types of moves are up to the discretion of a DT to use so he can beat an OLman. AH has been to 2 pro bowls and more importantly been All-Pro 2 years in a row, he knows every move in the book and can execute them all. Its simply learning what his responsibility is on a given play, and you are correct, there isn't very complicated to learn. He'll be fine from that perspective.

Posted by: 6-2StackMonster | May 11, 2009 8:26 PM | Report abuse

I would bet on Thomas before Williams...I would also say that we can all agree that they need to upgrade the entire right side. I hope Rhino is a factor but I was shocked that with all the injuries they choose to play Geisinger @ RT instead of Rhino last year.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 11, 2009 8:29 PM | Report abuse

Bridges will play long before Rhino!

Count on it, and bet the house.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | May 11, 2009 8:31 PM | Report abuse

Especially since Geisinger was and is a backup C. Rhino may be like the rest of last years draft...A swing and a miss.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 11, 2009 8:40 PM | Report abuse

Wilbur Marshall made the pro bowl when he was here.

Posted by: Realness1 | May 11, 2009 8:40 PM | Report abuse

Wilbur Marshall made the pro bowl when he was here.

Posted by: Realness1 | May 11, 2009 8:40 PM

Let me give you what T_E or The Cork would hit you with...

Should we sign him? Do you think he would come in for the vet min? Would he fit Blatche's scheme or would he be too much of a freelancer ala Lavar?

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 11, 2009 8:54 PM | Report abuse

"You are 100% correct. DT is THE EASIEST position on the football field to learn the defense for."

I don't remember that being the question. The question being, is there more to the position that simply learning those four basic situations? And the answer is, sure there is. If you don't believe that, get a copy of the defensive playbook.

As to whether it's 'easier' to learn than, say, DE or middle LB -- that's subjective.

Looks now like the original question was more rhetorical -- the questioner already figured he knew the answer.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 8:55 PM | Report abuse

antonchigurh: "Cutler and McNabb weren't significantly better than Campbell and Edwards. That's patently ludricous."

Slow down, Chico.

In terms of the QB rating -- they're all in the same range. Compared to Aaron Rodgers, who's rating is much higher (as you pointed out). If Rodgers' QB rating is evidence of his ability, then the same should apply to the others.

"At one point it was an argument about how 1st year WRs tend to do well when they find themselves in an environment with a good QB and an established offensive system."

I'm not arguing about that -- or anything else. Just pointing out what I believe to be a weakness in the explanation you provided.

"Then you morphed it into something about QB inexperience and then something else about QB ratings in order to try and wriggle free."

Wriggle free of what? The explanation you put forth -- that the three WRs, DeSean, Royal, and Nelson -- succeeded because of better QBacking -- has a couple holes in it. I just pointed those out. Since I didn't take a position, there's nothing to wriggle free of.

"What's going to be next - the tensile strength of the QBs jock straps?"

Up to you -- what other theory do you want to advance? Make it less glib this time?

Posted by: AntonChigurh

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 9:03 PM | Report abuse

The only 'big if' in this proposition is M Williams getting into shape and having enough in the tank to be a more than effective player.

Posted by: MistaMoe

actually, there are plenty of 'ifs' regarding this guy. He wasn't exactly a world beater when he played when he was younger. My guess is that his skills, which he's let lapse for several years, aren't that good. His quickness on the field is an 'if'. His ability to avoid injuries is unknown. His ability to figure out what a defender is doing and how to counteract could be a problem. And of course, how much heart and determination he has once he starts getting smacked in the mouth, another 'if'.

Of course, the OL is mostly a bunch of 'ifs'. As in, if (fill in the blank) can stay healthy ...

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 11, 2009 9:07 PM | Report abuse

As to whether it's 'easier' to learn than, say, DE or middle LB -- that's subjective.

Looks now like the original question was more rhetorical -- the questioner already figured he knew the answer.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 8:55 PM
_____________________________

I would say DE is the next easiest to learn. MLB, IMO, is the hardest mainly due to the fact that almost all MLB's call the defense and are in charge of checking out of a defense based on the formation and in charge of altering the DL so they have to know more.

Posted by: 6-2StackMonster | May 11, 2009 9:07 PM | Report abuse

The reason Royal and jackson were better than Thomas or Kelly was, because they ARE better.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 11, 2009 9:15 PM | Report abuse

zce: he reason Royal and jackson were better than Thomas or Kelly was, because they ARE better."

Well, that would be the simplest answer, wouldn't it? And as Occam said, all things being equal...

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 9:20 PM | Report abuse

The reason Royal and jackson were better than Thomas or Kelly was, because they ARE better.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 11, 2009 9:15 PM

I think to your point that Vinny and Dan didn't have them on their board because in their mind they had to many 5'9 receivers on the roster. They were looking for the prototypical 6'2+ WR regardless of talent, college production, or injury red flags.

I'm still hopeful that DT will learn how to run a pattern, lineup correctly, and conditon. MK is a longshot to probably overcome his Knee.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 11, 2009 9:27 PM | Report abuse

Here's an unsigned free agent for ua: he played five seasons for the Jags. He's 25 years old, six-four and 220, and his best year was 2007, when he caught 38 balls and scored (if you can believe this) TEN TDs. Of course, he did just get 2 years probation on a Texas drug charge.

Of course, Reggie Williams just got two years probation in a Texas coke possession case.

Maybe we let Jerry Jones sign him...

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 9:30 PM | Report abuse

U heard it hear first:

Caps force game 7 with Penguins.

Rock the Red.

Posted by: Vicc | May 11, 2009 9:58 PM | Report abuse

U heard it hear first:

Caps force game 7 with Penguins.

Rock the Red.

Posted by: Vicc | May 11, 2009 9:58 PM
Or watche it live. Let's see if they can get a call @ home. Nothing like the ice being slanted in favor of the Pens @ their dump of an arena.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 11, 2009 10:04 PM | Report abuse

I jus have not been excited about Capitals Hockey since the days of Peter Bondra.

Posted by: Vicc | May 11, 2009 10:08 PM | Report abuse

Bondra could light the lamp, but Ovie is a freaking two way, body rocking, scoring machine.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 11, 2009 10:12 PM | Report abuse

U heard it hear first:

Caps force game 7 with Penguins.

Rock the Red.

Posted by: Vicc | May 11, 2009 9:58 PM |
============================================

Woo Hoo!
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | May 11, 2009 10:16 PM | Report abuse

ROCK the RED!!!! Are you serious Vicc? I love Bondra as much as the next Caps fanatic....but this team is beast!

Posted by: chrislarry | May 11, 2009 10:23 PM | Report abuse

does anyone else find the following from Jason Reid as mystifying as me: "Of course, with as poorly as the offense performed last season, even a significant boost in production might not be enough to help Washington qualify for the postseason." Hey JR, do you know how many games we lost by 4 points or less last year? Three. Another by 6, and one against the lowly Bengals by 7 because we couldn't punch it in from the 1 yd line. We added the best defensive player in the league, so it's safe to say we'll be Top 5 in defense again, maybe #1. I'd say a "significant boost in (offensive) production", even a modest one, will absolutely mean a postseason run.

Come on man, you're better than that.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | May 11, 2009 10:35 PM | Report abuse

Way to beast out and NOT lose four in a row. But I'm with you. Phone booth will be rocking.

Posted by: SMACK1 | May 11, 2009 10:35 PM | Report abuse

GO CAPS

HAIL

p.s. SI power ratings have us at 22 or 23...Vegas has over/under on our wins at 8...no respect. I love it.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | May 11, 2009 10:42 PM | Report abuse

Not the WR argument again.
Consider that Jackson and Royal got a ton of first-string reps during preseason and early in the year because the starters at their position were injured. Jackson, at least, went down the tubes in terms of production when that Kevin Whatshisname guy came back into the lineup to continue his march to the hall of fame.
I don't know that the fiesta trio is the answer to our questions, but I don't see how choosing them indicates some fatal flaw in our talent evaluation.

Posted by: daggar | May 11, 2009 11:59 PM | Report abuse

This Skins team will be a flawed team, the OL and WRs are simply not up to par and depth is problematic at certain spots (#1 WR, MLB, CB, along along the OL).

However, its not below average. The reason I see them going 8-8-ish is because 12 of the 16 games come against teams that were .500 or above in 2008. The NFC East and South were the top 2 division on football -- with no losing teams. And that is 10 of our 16 games.

I'm thinking 5-7 versus the .500 and above teams. Even at 8-8, we're around the 12th best team given how tough the schedule is.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 11, 2009 11:59 PM | Report abuse

C'mon, daggar, they might be the greatest talents ever, but they will always be linked and their Redskin careers carefully scrutinized as a trio because the front office, whatever they might say to the contrary, decided that we were one big pass-catcher away, so they drafted three of them. THREE OF THEM.

WR-TE-WR.

Again, every other position was ignored in favor of drafting three big pass-catchers.

So the issue isn't necessarily talent evaluation, it's the herky-jerky googley-eyed gee-whiz "methodology" used for need evaluation by the brain trust.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | May 12, 2009 12:12 AM | Report abuse

I didn't have a big problem with drafting 2 WRs in 2008. Draft 2, hope 1 pans out (about a 50/50 chance that 1 of the 2 will become a solid pro). It was a risk, but not a foolish one considering how weak the position was/is. The odds going forward don't look good, but its possible that one of them will breakthru.

But drafting the TE? The P? The QB? Not when we needed OL.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 1:06 AM | Report abuse

Fair enough, Nate, but after 2007, when our WR complement included a procession of justaguys dropped by other teams -- Mix, Caldwell, McCardell -- we had space at that position, and a clear need at the position.
They got three of the five -- according to scout.com, YMMV -- five-star players at WR/TE, all with 2nd round picks. Not what you would have done, you've made clear, but it doesn't strike me as crazy.

Posted by: daggar | May 12, 2009 1:12 AM | Report abuse

Fair enough, Nate, but after 2007, when our WR complement included a procession of justaguys dropped by other teams -- Mix, Caldwell, McCardell -- we had space at that position, and a clear need at the position.
They got three of the five -- according to scout.com, YMMV -- five-star players at WR/TE, all with 2nd round picks. Not what you would have done, you've made clear, but it doesn't strike me as crazy.

Posted by: daggar | May 12, 2009 1:12 AM | Report abuse

Fair enough, Nate, but after 2007, when our WR complement included a procession of justaguys dropped by other teams -- Mix, Caldwell, McCardell -- we had space at that position, and a clear need at the position.


Posted by: daggar

I get the context of your comment, but I'm not gonna put the guy who is EASILY the BEST WR the Redskins drafted in the last 25 drafts in the category of 'justaguy'. He caught over 880 passes for over 11,000 yards.

Problem is, we let him go before his 1st catch and didn't get him back until his last 20.

I wasn't in favor of bringing Keenan McCardell in when the Skins signed him, but I was wrong. He played well. McCardell had a great career ... so while I get that he was no longer a great player, he'll never be 'justaguy'.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 3:51 AM | Report abuse

And the whole thing about, 'He takes plays off,' well, people who say that just don't know me. If you know me, you know I hate to lose.

By Jason Reid | May 11, 2009; 9:55 AM ET

Sounds like a deflection to me...didn't answer the question. Hope I'm wrong, but I don't see Haynesworth paying off AT ALL...

Posted by: brownwood26 | May 12, 2009 6:55 AM | Report abuse

"WR-TE-WR"

-NateinthePDX

----------

Here, here!

There, there!

Posted by: Chia_Pet | May 12, 2009 7:02 AM | Report abuse

Someone asked, "Who gets cut?" on the defensive line. IMHO, I think the team is going to have to defer to youth and speed. I don't think they can let Carter go because of the salary cap impact, but I'm sure he's gonzo next year unless he does something miraculous in 2009. I think Daniels and Wynn are vulnerable. They're old guys - run stuffers - and I really believe now that they have moved Lorenzo to the outside he will steal at least one of these guys' jobs. Wynn has been boucning around for the last couple of years, never doing anything to impress ateam for more than one year, so I think he might get a visit from the reaper. Though I would like to see Buzzbee make the roster the rap against him is going to hurt his chances: kid from a small football program who is injury prone. He was always a project and he might be done. Jackson will hang around as the eventual successor to Carter, I believe because he has made some strides since last season. Orakpo is going to be doing mostly linebacker stuff except on passing downs so I wouldn't include him in the mix. I see Griffin, Haynesworth, Golston, Montgomery, Alexander, Jackson, Carter and Daniels on the opening day roster, barring injury. Maybe they can put Buzzbee back on the developmental roster but they might have someone else - this guy from JMU, for instance - that they like better as a developmental prospect. Of course, there is always the prospect of injury or another free agent signing. If a decent high potential DE becomes available, I could see them making a move.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | May 12, 2009 7:10 AM | Report abuse

I've said this before, but what strikes me most about Albert Haynesworth, is how well composed this man is during his media opportunities.

Albert appears to be both an attentive listener and a creative, critical thinker.

I also like the fact that he's close to his mother; seems to love the woman dearly.

My greatest hope for Albert, however, is that he finds a productive way to channel the deep seeded resentment harbored towards his absentee, no good father.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | May 12, 2009 7:10 AM | Report abuse

Wilbur Marshall made the pro bowl when he was here.

Posted by: Realness1 | May 11, 2009 8:40 PM

Let me give you what T_E or The Cork would hit you with...

Should we sign him? Do you think he would come in for the vet min? Would he fit Blatche's scheme or would he be too much of a freelancer ala Lavar?

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 11, 2009 8:54 PM |

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Not this talent_evaluator. I know that JM220 likes to joke about hitting people in the head with a hammer and that TheTruth11 likes to joke about a boy who was beheaded, but I can't joke about Wilber Marshall. The man has led a sad life since leaving the Redskins. This from Wikipedia:

"Marshall spent much of his life after football suffering from injuries he sustained during his professional career. His health declined as the years progressed, but he refused to receive surgery to repair his injured spine, shoulders, and knees. Permanently disabled, Marshall’s days of battling other players have been replaced with days of fighting with the NFL and the players' union over a settlement pertaining to his injuries. His former coach, Mike Ditka, has aided in Marshall’s fight by forming a coalition to raise additional awareness. Eventually in 2008, Marshall finally prevailed in his long pending dispute over his entitlement to total disability benefits from the Bert Bell/Pete Rozelle NFL Player Retirement Plan, however, by this time he had gone into bankruptcy. He currently resides in Sterling, Virginia."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

is this joint dead or something?

Posted by: RedDMV | May 12, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

is this joint dead or something?

Posted by: RedDMV | May 12, 2009 8:48 AM | ========================================

Ain't no cure for the Summertime Blues
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | May 12, 2009 8:53 AM | Report abuse

Family Values

An Oregon, Wis., man was arrested in February after his 9-year-old son wrote a school essay about the time his dad shot him in the buttocks with a BB gun because he was blocking his view of the TV set. [Wisconsin State Journal, 2-13-09]

A 58-year-old man was arrested in Baltimore in February for allegedly stabbing his 19-year-old son after an argument over the son's refusal to remove his hat during church service. [Fox News-AP, 2-24-09]

Posted by: RedDMV | May 12, 2009 8:59 AM | Report abuse

Wilber Marshall's middle name = Buddyhia

Don't know that I've ever seen that name before.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

"Jay Cutler wasn't making Deangelo Hall trip over his own feet with the routes he was running in week 1.
Posted by: psps23"

"Deangelo Hall running routes? WTF?
Posted by: AntonChigurh"

I'll slow it down.

Jay Cutler wasn't making Deangelo Hall trip over his own feet with the routes he (Jay Cutler) was running in week 1. That would have been Eddie Royal making Hall look foolish.

Posted by: psps23 | May 12, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

"why, oh why did the team not resign PIERCE!!!!!! DANGITT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: BeantownGreg1"

I confess I still consider that the worst non-signing ever -- worse than letting Brian Mitchell go.

Pierce is a good example of how important it is to have a smart football player at MLB. We think of Ray Lewis and Mike Singletary as primarily nsaty, brutish, short players, but mainly they're smart and instinctive. So's Pierce.

The other position where IMO you need a smart player is at center. Physically dominant is great, but there aren't so many of those around. Smart is probably more important.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 12, 2009 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Today's listening assignment:

Godspeed You Black Emperor!

Extra credit: Miami mathrock band Machete (good luck finding it...)

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 12, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

diesel: "I think to your point that Vinny and Dan didn't have them on their board because in their mind they had to many 5'9 receivers on the roster. They were looking for the prototypical 6'2+ WR regardless of talent, college production, or injury red flags"

Of course that's exactly right. They didn't draft any of the small receivers because they felt they already had enough small receivers. They drafted Thomas because he was big and strong and fast, Davis because he was the highest rated guy on their board (by a margin, too), and they drafted Kelly because they couldn't believe he was still there when they picked.

Well, at least now we know for sure why Kelly was still there. He has knees.

It's fair to say that the three small receivers all benefited to some extent from a good fit with the teams that drafted them. All got to play a lot from the beginning, all got a chance to cement their value as returners, and all got to play with good QBs (at least part of the time). Royal in particular gained by playing across from Brandon Marshall, a true #1 receiver.

But you could also argue that the QBs they played with gained a lot by having them on the field.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 12, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

I suspect Rob Jackson doesn't make it this season. Possibly not Chris Wilson, either. Alex Buzbee I think doesn't make it past the final cut. Daniels I think is a keeper, and I hope they keep Wynn too, but I'm not certain. Both would have to be replaced at the beginning or end of next season, anyway. But they play a very important role in stabilizing those young defensive players.

The Skins really have upgraded the DL. At this point in time, it's the LBs that worry. But who knows where the next leak could spring?

Posted by: Samson151 | May 12, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: lsskinsfan | May 12, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

By the way, if anybody here hasn't been watching the Capitals-Penguins series, you need to wise up real quick. I've been a casual Caps fan since the days of Bondra/Hunter/Johansson, but this is something on another level.

I seriously can't remember the last time I've ever seen the unquestioned two best players in the league consistently raise their games to another level for a full series with no letdowns. In any sport. It's unbelievable. 6 comeback wins, 5 one-goal games, 3 overtime wins, superstars (Ovechkin - 7G, 6A; Crosby - 6G, 4A) playing like superstars, and drama to the Nth degree. Even if I wasn't a fan of either team, I still wouldn't be able to peel my eyes away. This has turned into one of those once-in-a-generation type series, and one that seems unlikely to repeat itself, even if these teams meet up again in the future. As impossible as it seemed, this series has exceeded expecatations.

If you weren't planning on doing so earlier, do yourself a favor and look out for game 7 tomorrow. I can't recommend it enough.

Posted by: psps23 | May 12, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

"why, oh why did the team not resign PIERCE!!!!!! DANGITT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: BeantownGreg1"

I confess I still consider that the worst non-signing ever -- worse than letting Brian Mitchell go.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 12, 2009 9:28 AM |

Greg,

Isn't it amazing that, after all these years, you can still hook a fish with "Pierce" as the bait?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

The next overpaid free Agent like El.

Posted by: jercha | May 12, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

te, ufb...not just hooked either, that called getting gut-hooked......watch this....


The Redskins shouldn't ever have included a 2nd round pick when they traded Bailey for Portis....

watch, and enjoy.....


Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 12, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins shouldn't ever have included a 2nd round pick when they traded Bailey for Portis....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 12, 2009 9:58 AM


I forgot what side of the argument I was on. I just failed this pop quiz.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 12, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins shouldn't ever have included a 2nd round pick when they traded Bailey for Portis....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 12, 2009 9:58 AM

Well, you have to remember who the Broncos took with that pick: Tatum Bell. His last involvement with the NFL was when he was caught on a surveillance camera in Detroit walking away with Rudi Johnson's bags. And theCork is worried about Haynesworth's character.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

I forgot what side of the argument I was on. I just failed this pop quiz.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 12, 2009 10:09 AM

It's okay to flip-flop on this one. I don't think anyone remembers which side other people were on, except maybe Barno who has clipped everything and filed it.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

talent:"Isn't it amazing that, after all these years, you can still hook a fish with "Pierce" as the bait?"

Aw, you guys... does this mesan I have to paint that damn fence again?

Posted by: Samson151 | May 12, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

Plus it might help with the incentive: I think he needs to get down to 350 to make the roster and possibly make a difference.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya

Williams said he is 392 on the Redskins flack site. If that's the case, and he's truly motivated, he makes the team, and could start.

I think he plays around 360-70. Which is not that outrageous for an ORT.

It would be nice if one of Vinny's longshot reaches finally paid off, and I'm not betting against this guy.

Call me a wild eyed pollyanna, but I think ORT will be well taken care of.

I'm more concerned with the health of Samuels and Thomas and center, where Rabach is game but undersized.

Posted by: TheCork | May 12, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

Wilber Marshall's middle name = Buddyhia

Don't know that I've ever seen that name before.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

That's also Tom Hanks middle name.

Posted by: TheCork | May 12, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Aw, you guys... does this mesan I have to paint that damn fence again?

Posted by: Samson151 | May 12, 2009 10:16 AM |

That depends. How do you feel about the second round pick we threw in for Portis? If your answer is longer than a sentence, get out your brush.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Wilbur Marshall made the pro bowl when he was here.

Posted by: Realness1 | May 11, 2009 8:40 PM

Let me give you what T_E or The Cork would hit you with...

Should we sign him? Do you think he would come in for the vet min? Would he fit Blatche's scheme or would he be too much of a freelancer ala Lavar?

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 11, 2009 8:54 PM |


What are you babbling about? I've always liked Marshall. Its' Arrington I feel was overrated. But sign Wilburrrrrr? Yeah, sure, right after Bruce Smith.

Back when the traded for him, it was a great deal. He's a smidge old, now.

Posted by: TheCork | May 12, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

That's also Tom Hanks middle name.

Posted by: TheCork | May 12, 2009 10:25 AM

You almost had me there, Cork. Try "Jeffrey".

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

I forgot what side of the argument I was on. I just failed this pop quiz.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 12, 2009 10:09 AM

It's okay to flip-flop on this one. I don't think anyone remembers which side other people were on, except maybe Barno who has clipped everything and filed it.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 10:12 AM

Did you hear the one about the guy with two left feet? He wore flip-flips.

Posted by: dcsween | May 12, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

"...is this joint dead or something?"

There's no news, so how can it be lively?

Perhaps the WA PO should do us all a favor and shut this thing down up until early July when camps open.

Otherwise, yeah, this is a joint that ain't jumpin'.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 12, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Who's Jeffrey Hanks?

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 12, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

"The Redskins' 4-3 defense is structured to stop the run foremost. Defensive tackles are assigned to maintain their run-gap responsibilities while taking on blockers in an effort to help linebackers make big plays."

I'm always a little confused by this. Sure, the Skins want to stop the run. But it's not like in the 3-4, where the linemen occupy blockers first and foremost. There are plenty of opportunities for a tackle to 'blow up' a blocker and get into the backfield to disrupt a play.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 12, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

"If your answer is longer than a sentence, get out your brush.Posted by: talent_evaluator"

Oh yeah well here's my thought on....

Posted by: Samson151 | May 12, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

You think this is dead? This is far from dead. There were like 200 comments yesterday.

A dead day will get you 75 or less comments. The dog days of the blog will be June/July where no news will truly be no news.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 12, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

There were like 200 comments yesterday.

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 12, 2009 10:50 AM |

And, it isn't just the quantity that counts. When you consider that about 75 of them were in-depth analyses of LaVar Arrington's time with the 'Skins, why that's as big as the first day of free agency. No, maybe it's as big as the last day of free agency.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Ravens contact hopeful WR Washington

By Aaron Wilson, Times Staff Writer Tuesday, May 12, 2009


OWINGS MILLS -- The Baltimore Ravens got in touch with veteran free agent wide receiver Kelley Washington on Monday following his strong tryout during a full-team minicamp this weekend.

No deal was immediately struck, but the interest is apparently mutual after Washington outshined Tab Perry and Jerry Porter during five practice sessions. So, the Ravens reached out to Washington's agent.

If a deal is worked out, the former Cincinnati Bengals third-round draft pick could be officially signed prior to a passing camp next week.

"I'm just grateful for the Ravens to give me an opportunity to come and try out," Washington said Sunday as the Ravens concluded their minicamp. "Just being a veteran, I want to get into a great situation. I want to play for a contending team. It's just going to be a situation where I sit down with my agent and see what's the best situation for me and how I can get on the field and play some wide receiver, continue to help out on special teams and help them win.

"I'm more of a physical style receiver. I'm big and I like to get in the middle and get dirty and just be a big, physical target. I think I can bring that to the team, but that's up to management to determine."

Washington caught one pass last season for the New England Patriots, also blocking a punt.

Washington was recently offered a veteran minimum contract by the Washington Redskins after participating in their minicamp on a trial basis, but the Redskins have recently signed wide receivers Roydell Williams and Keith Eloi.

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 12, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

So, why didn't we bring in Jerry Porter and Tab Perry?

I for one like both of them. Especially Tab. He is a tall dude.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 12, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Greg - MUST READ........

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/12/mason-hopes-to-earn-a-longer-stay/

(Honestly it's a no news is no news article...)

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 12, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

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