Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity
On Twitter: RedskinsInsider and PostSports  |  Facebook  |  E-mail alerts: Redskins and Sports  |  RSS

After surgery, Cooley could be back in four weeks

Redskins tight end Chris Cooley underwent successful surgery on the broken bone in his lower right leg Wednesday morning, a team spokesman said, and if there are no setbacks, the Pro Bowler could be back in a month.

The surgery was performed by Dr. Mark Myerson of the Institute for Foot and Ankle Reconstruction at Mercy Hospital in Baltimore. Myerson is a specialist in the discipline. His bio on the institute's Web site says he has "pioneered surgical techniques that have revolutionized the diagnosis, treatment and recovery of disorders of the foot and ankle."

If there are no setbacks, Cooley could miss just four weeks, a much rosier prognosis than originally provided by Coach Jim Zorn, who expected to place Cooley on season-ending injured reserve sometime this week. The new timetable could have Cooley back for a Nov. 29 game at Philadelphia.

Cooley leads the Redskins with 29 catches. He broke off a small part of his right tibia early in the second quarter of Monday night's 27-17 loss to the Philadelphia Eagles.

The fact that Cooley likely will be back this season decreases the likelihood that the Redskins will pursue another tight end. Second-year player Fred Davis played the final three quarters of the Philadelphia game and set career highs with eight catches for 78 yards, including the first touchdown of his career.

Davis, though, struggled mightily with his blocking assignments -- "I have to really focus on that," he said -- against the Eagles. Veteran Todd Yoder, a special teams mainstay and proven blocker, could be used more to stabilize an already reeling offensive line, which has lost right guard Randy Thomas and left tackle Chris Samuels for the season.

By Barry Svrluga  |  October 28, 2009; 11:45 AM ET
 
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Cooley surgery 'went well'
Next: At the bye: High marks for the defense

Comments

Within four weeks he will have lost his job to Fred Davis. Put him on IR.

Posted by: League-Source | October 28, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

I don't see what it gets us to bring him back when this team is 2-8 or whatever the record will be in four weeks. He needs to heal completely so he can spend the offseason training hard, developing rapport with the new QB...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 28, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Wow, Rogers has let up, what, 3 TDs on the year, and now he's a bust?

Earlier, I saw someone post that Rogers was the worst starting corner in the league.

Some people just have no ability to judge what good play is relative to their league counterparts.

But I guess this is the natural reaction to the overall sucking that's been going on at Redskins Park.

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 11:32 AM

3 TDs are 2 more than DHall has let up....

How can you bite on a double move thats 3/4 yards short of the 1st down line on 3rd and 22?

That sounds like something you would expect Tryon to do, not one of the supposed top 5 CBs coming into the season....

And Tryon is performing well, BTW, as a 3rd/Slot CB....

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

I don't see what it gets us to bring him back when this team is 2-8 or whatever the record will be in four weeks.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 28, 2009 11:53 AM

It gets us nothing, Nate. But this is about Zorn and Vinnie trying to polish up their resumes. They want to put "win now" guys on the field instead of trying to find players who can contribute in the future.

Posted by: League-Source | October 28, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

CALLING ALL REDSKINS FANS!!! (if there are any left) - Got an idea - Take the time to send a letter to the CEO of FedEx saying you will switch to UPS for courier services until Dan Snyder sells the team. What can brown do for you?

Posted by: 44Diesel | October 28, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

repost...

Maybe it was Gruden's comment I was recalling.

But yes, it's true that JC seemed to hesitate on the throw as well - which I imagine is a no-no on a 3-step timing route.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 11:39 AM

I just re-watched that play. Guess what, everyone is right. They was a clear miscommunication between Rabbach and Montgomery on how to give help if the safety blitz. Rabbach had helpfrom Dock w/ the NT on a combo. Montgomery blocked out on the DE, Leaving BMW to block the potential blitzing CB. But when the safety blitzed, he was lined up over Montgomery,Rabbach reacted to him, but Montgomery never did. In fact BMW re-engaged the DE once the CB dropped back in coverage, and Montgomery ended up blocking no one. JC did not release the ball as quickly as he should because as I understand it, on the third step the ball needs to be out. JC held the ball for another second.

Posted by: TWISI | October 28, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abus

Posted by: TWISI | October 28, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

I hope that they don't rush him back too quickly and risk any further ankle injuries. Is there any such risk involved if there's a four week timetable? It just seems too soon to be fully healed. Cooley's one of my favorite Skins and I would rather ensure that he is completely healed before trying to come back in this lost season.

Posted by: humen8r | October 28, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

We're not going to win anything this year. We may as well see what the young guys have. Why not bring in Marko Mitchell and see if he can out position a first string CB like he does the backups in the preseason?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 28, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

I just re-watched that play. Guess what, everyone is right.

Posted by: TWISI | October 28, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse


Great. Which leads me back to my primary point: This whole offense sucks.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

L_S/t_e, I wonder if Vin/Dan will embrace this opportunity to showcase Fred "I put the TE in WR-TE-WR" Davis... you know, to polish the turd that was the 2008 draft.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 28, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

3 TDs are 2 more than DHall has let up....

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse


Which TD has Hall let in? Was it Dwayne Bowe?

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Greg, I know this may be a shocker for you, but yes, cornerbacks get beat. Even the best ones.

And I know it's another shocker, but there is a gap between first team all-pro and bust. It's not one or the other.

With the exception of one season (2006), Rogers has been a starting corner on a top 10 passing defense every year, and a top 10 defense overall every year. There's a reason for that.

Jesus, the Snyder kneejerk reaction has permeated completely through the fanbase. Rogers is fine, and is far from a problem with this team as it currently stands. Sometimes I wonder how people delude themselves into thinking anything worse than legendary production constitutes a bust. I mean, with Rogers being the worst starting corner in the league, Landry being a complete bust, and Horton struggling with a sophomore slump, it's incredible that the Redskins are 3rd in the league in pass defense, averaging only 164.9 yards a game through the air, good for 3rd in the league. What a bunch of scrubs those guys are.

Posted by: psps23

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Here is my daily addition to our broken record of a song about our beloved effin team.

I think Zorn needs to be fired now not at the end of the season. Yesterday I was thinking the opposite because mid-season changes in the NFL usually aren't successful but we aren't going anywhere so who cares about that.
It seems pretty clear that the team is in full disarray. I get the feeling that each coach is doing their thing with their guys and the unity and cohesiveness is gone, if it ever even existed. That is on Zorn and given he's been neutered by the FO he is mostly powerless to remedy the situation even if he had the leadership qualities to do so which I don't think he does.
So give Zorn his walking papers and put in interim from the staff - Gray seems the consensus choice for those outside the organization but who knows.
It needs to be a guy who has a pretty good understanding of his position as interim and not long term HC. Maybe he can prove himself by coming in and taking a hammer to the back of the head of each and every player who has demonstrated anything less than full balls out commitment on and off the field which seems to be just about everyone except Fletcher. That will be the interims job - wrangle the players back into a team mode and tell them to pull their heads out of their rears. Secondly set up smooth and consistent communication and interaction between coaches. Third this guy has to come out and say no matter what every game we show up to we're going to play and leave it all on the field. We're not playing for anything but pride at this point and everyone is playing for their jobs. Postseason shmostseason that isn't even on the radar screen. Fourth tell the fans that if we show up to a game then he promises the team will show up too and even if we lose it won't be these humiliating bs losses.

January 2010 - Snyder announces Cerrato is gone and that a top to bottom review of the team will happen under the new hired GM _______. He announces that the new GM has full control and that the only he is going to do as owner is ensure that cap situation is under control and work with marketing to get fans back.

January 2010 - new GM announces hiring of new HC and coaching and scouting staff.

February 2010 - new GM and new HC bring in each and every player for a job interview (even the ones with guaranteed contracts)to lay out the new law of Redskins Park

February-March 2010 - new GM and HC focus on getting as many draft picks as possible for April and only signing FA o-line.

April 2010 - new Redskins Era begins

May 2010 - pigs fly, pots of gold discovered at the end of rainbows, dogs and cats lying together, peace in the Middle East . . .

Posted by: sfskin | October 28, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

It gets us nothing, Nate. But this is about Zorn and Vinnie trying to polish up their resumes. They want to put "win now" guys on the field instead of trying to find players who can contribute in the future.

Posted by: League-Source | October 28, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

________________

It's about Cooley wanting to come back. Zorn was very prepared to put Cooley on IR initially. Cooley is the one pushing the issue. The injury is also seems to be much less severe than initially reported.

If he can play, he can play.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 28, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

I think the team would be silly to rush Cooley back. Even if he comes back in four weeks, will he be back? Will he be able to anchor to block? Will he be able to run full speed? I admire Cooley for his hutzpah here, but I just don't see how it helps anyone. I'd sign another tight end and put him on IR.

Speaking of the IR, the website doesn't who that Samuels is on the IR. I thought they clearly were going to do this and open a roster spot. Why wouldn't they do that right away and start working out replacements? Is there some super secret strategy here, or is this just another example of how inept the front office is? Wake up Vinny, it's time to sign another offensive tackle!!!

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 28, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

How can you bite on a double move thats 3/4 yards short of the 1st down line on 3rd and 22?

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 11:54 AM |

You can easily pick up 3/4 yds on a cross by the time you are in the middle of the field. Nobody knows how they schemed out covering Jackson except the coaches but it looked like the plan was to have a safety pick him up on a deep move. It also would have been nice if Rogers had chucked him at the LOS and there had been pocket pressure on McNabb. McN didn't even spot Machlin on the same play run earler. If McN had been on his game, which he wasn't, it would have been a lot uglier than it was.

Posted by: TalkToTheHand | October 28, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Nate,

I'm still suspending judgement on that draft. I don't know whether the picks were bad or whether Zorn doesn't know what to do with them.

Posted by: League-Source | October 28, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

please dont allow Cooley to come back!

Posted by: BenchCampbell | October 28, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Activate Marko Mitchell, Kelly, Thomas, and Davis need to play regularly the rest of the season. Give these guys the experience. Cooley hasn't done jack for us this year anyway. The smurfs (Moss & Randle El)haven't been lighting it up either. These young guys can bring a new fire to the offense which seems to be missing in the vets, we got nothing to lose at this point, so play em!!!!!!

Posted by: blackhills1 | October 28, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

"Cooley could be back in four weeks"

So he goes from under the knife to come back into the middle of this meat-grinder:

Falcons
Saints
Cowboys
Eagles
Chargers
Giants

If I'm Cooley, I say, "Thanks, but no thanks."

"I'll just blog and rehab and enjoy being a young, blonde millionaire football player."

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 28, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

RI:

"After surgery, Cooley could be back in four weeks"

"Cooley surgery 'went well'"

"Cooley's injury may not be so serious "

Black humor at its best. The Skins season is in the shti can and RI is ODing on reports about an early recovery for Cooley, who should go on IR and have plenty of time to recover instead of striving to return as soon as possible to a lost season.

Posted by: TalkToTheHand | October 28, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

And I know it's another shocker, but there is a gap between first team all-pro and bust. It's not one or the other.

With the exception of one season (2006), Rogers has been a starting corner on a top 10 passing defense every year, and a top 10 defense overall every year. There's a reason for that.


The problem psp, is that Rogers was the 9th overall selection in the draft, so there are high expectations. He's vastly underperformed.....he's closer to bust, than he is to all-pro. He plays on a good defense, that doesn't mean he's under performing, and has been for quite some time.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Put Cooley on IR, and FIRE CERRATO!! Let the rebuilding start now. We need to raid every other team's practice squad.

Posted by: RedskinJim1 | October 28, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

With the exception of one season (2006), Rogers has been a starting corner on a top 10 passing defense every year, and a top 10 defense overall every year. There's a reason for that.

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse


Yes. The reason is that he's lucky to be playing with alot of other good players who can make up for his gaffes.

He's a weak link.

He's gonna get replaced next year and someone else can step in and the defense won't miss him.

For being a #9 overall, he's a bust.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Let 'em know what you think:

21300 Redskin Park Drive

Ashburn, VA 20147

United States
Phone:
703-726-7000

Fax:
703-726-7172

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 28, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

"I'll just blog and rehab and enjoy being a young, blonde millionaire football player."

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 28, 2009 12:12 PM |

On Monday the FB gods punished the Skins for being so lame and they punished Cooley for making an idiot of himself with a peroxide bottle.

Posted by: TalkToTheHand | October 28, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

How can you bite on a double move thats 3/4 yards short of the 1st down line on 3rd and 22?

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 11:54 AM |

Maybe you think there's going to be some pressure on the QB on an obvious passing down, and you're thinking there's no way the receiver is going to have time to run a double move on an obvious passing down and besides, it's 22 yards for the first and there's a safety over top helping out anyway.
BTW, how's the weather in Seattle?

Posted by: mack1 | October 28, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

F Dallas.

Posted by: JohnnyRyde | October 28, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

The problem psp, is that Rogers was the 9th overall selection in the draft, so there are high expectations. He's vastly underperformed.....he's closer to bust, than he is to all-pro. He plays on a good defense, that doesn't mean he's under performing, and has been for quite some time.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 12:14 PM |

My 2 cents...We have much bigger problems than CR22 to focus on. We need at least 3 olineman and a QB plus an outside LB that isnt Orakpo (he needs to be on the line at all times)

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 28, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

My 2 cents...We have much bigger problems than CR22 to focus on. We need at least 3 olineman and a QB plus an outside LB that isnt Orakpo (he needs to be on the line at all times)

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 28, 2009 12:21 PM |

Oh, and a RB and MLB for when Portis and Fletcher are gone. That's at least 6 players. Why create another hole where there is a relatively small one.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 28, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

scamp, agreed, however that doesn't change the disappointment that typifies the career of Los...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

My 2 cents...We have much bigger problems than CR22 to focus on. We need at least 3 olineman and a QB plus an outside LB that isnt Orakpo (he needs to be on the line at all times)

Posted by: scampbell1975

As fans, we have the time to focus on all the sucky players on this team. Seriously, the FO is no going to draft/pick-up FAs based on this blog or they would have drafted OL the last two years.

Defending CR22 is dumb because this has been his MO since he was drafted.

Posted by: Curzon417 | October 28, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Yes! we'll start winning we get Cooley back for the season. Oh wait, we had him all season long! Well maybe his recovery will require steroids that'll make him bigger so he can play tackle.

When are open tryouts for the OL again? I think I'm gonna tryout.

Posted by: dadanimal | October 28, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Put Cooley on IR, and FIRE CERRATO!! Let the rebuilding start now. We need to raid every other team's practice squad.

Posted by: RedskinJim1

We already have enough practice squad players on this team.

Posted by: dcwun | October 28, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

ALL HAIL LORD DARTH SNYDER !!!!!!

Posted by: LMichael1 | October 28, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

BTW, how's the weather in Seattle?

Posted by: mack1 | October 28, 2009 12:19 PM |

Partly cloudy with a chance of meat balls.

How's the weather on RI? Totally cloudy with a 99% chance of meatheads.

Posted by: TalkToTheHand | October 28, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

ernie grunfeld for redskins gm!!!!

Posted by: jasonma1 | October 28, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

WHO CARES ABOUT THIS TEAM ANYMORE???? IF CERRATO IS STILL ON THE PAYROLL THEN NOTHING HAS CHANGED!!! 17 YEARS OF FRUSTRATION, 11 OF THEM BECAUSE OF SNYDERRATO... JUST SICK AND TIRED, THEY HAVE RUINED MY FOOTBALL SEASON!!!

Posted by: BarackObama | October 28, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

There are plays that are designed to counter an all out blitz. Are we not smart enough to call them. OK our line is week so teams bring the heat on 3rd down. So set up a screen or do a quick slant. No we drop back and get sacked. Campbell, Playcalling, Line. I'd say 33.333% of the blame goes equally to all 3.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 28, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Put Cooley on IR. We know he's good & we're not going anywhere.

Fire Jim Zorn as soon as you have an HC who wants the job that we like. How better to evaluate talent than during the season?

Fire Cerratto the same way for the same reason.

And can we call them the Redskinettes instead of Cheerleaders? It's not like they're leading us in any cheers... And can we get them to hug each other more... that'd be good.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 28, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Great. Which leads me back to my primary point: This whole offense sucks.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

That is true. We only have a limited number of draft picks so we need to prioritize the suck. We must first realize that no need on the defense is greater than any need on the offense and we can only take offensive players in the draft. We can sign no free agents since we have so much dead cap and huge contracts and we'll need money for 2012 when half our roster is up for free agency. Free agents are band aids used to get a contender over the top. They are not a viable team building strategy.

recap
1. no more defensive players
2. no more outside free agents

I'd say it goes in the following order:
LT
RG
C
RT
RB
QB
--------
SLB
FS

I actually like where we are with FB, LG, WR, and TE. I also like where we are with most of the defense. We'll have to replace Fletcher at some point but we have more pressing needs right now.

2010

R1. LT-We don't have a legitimate left tackle on this roster. The best LTs go in the first round.
R2. RT-With a new right tackle we can move BMW to RG and fix both positions at once. Great right tackles are found in the second round.
R4. C-Rabach is terrible-Centers can be found in the 4th round.

2011
R1. QB-Get a good young QB that fits our system and start grooming him to take over.
R2. RB-Portis falls over after 3 yards. We need real talent at this position.

2012
R1. ILB


This would give us a pretty good roster by 2012 and we should be highly competitive by 2013 instead of just trying to back into the playoffs at 9-7 every other year.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 28, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Zorn on 980 asked about Cerrato's statement that he gave Jim a playoff roster:

"If this is a playoff roster then we will earn the right to enter the playoffs"

Well said Jim.

Posted by: Predator48 | October 28, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Some of this is just too funny. I swear some of you are the love children of Dan and Vinny. You scream about Dan's knee jerk reactions and constant change but yet consistantly call for the same thing.

You complain about the free agent spending but yet you want some of the young talent off of the team instead of letting them develop.

The most laughable of all is folks saying "lets raid other teams practice squads."

There's one "glaring " need for this football team and its on the OL. Without that, there will be no running game.

Posted by: dcwun | October 28, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Which TD has Hall let in? Was it Dwayne Bowe?


Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 12:03 PM

I think that was on Carlos....

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, dcwun, you're right, but the OL is SOOO not fun to even think about. We'd prefer to worry about the other postions.

Signed,

Dan and Vinny

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 28, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Putting Cooley on IR may not be an option. What do the rules allow regarding an injury that is not season ending?

CS will be put on IR this week.

Posted by: Curzon417 | October 28, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Zorn on 980 asked about Cerrato's statement that he gave Jim a playoff roster:

"If this is a playoff roster then we will earn the right to enter the playoffs"

Well said Jim.

Posted by: Predator48 | October 28, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

You can add this quote to the list of dumb things Jim Zorn says.

You could have all-world talent and not make the play-offs if you play calling, game planning, and game prep is poor.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 28, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Apparently, during Vinny's "press conference" yesterday, he was asked about the depth on the OLine. He said they did address it, and brought in Dockery and Mike Williams.

So, Dockery replaced Kendall at starting LG...I don't really see how that added any "depth."
And, they added a 450 pound guy who was out of the league for 3 years.

Solid. Just outstanding. Fantastic planning. The awesome awesomeness of this EVP is, well, just awe-inspiring.

Posted by: 4-12 | October 28, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

A team may place a player on injured reserve (reserve/injured list ) who, due to injury, is "not immediately available for participation with a club". These players may not practice or return to the Active List in the same season that they are placed on injured reserve. [2]

Sounds like they can put any injured player on IR as long as they accept that they aren't playing for the rest of the year

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 28, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

"Yes. The reason is that he's lucky to be playing with alot of other good players who can make up for his gaffes."

Yea, that's it. All 10 of the other all-pros he's been surrounded by have completely masked Rogers into looking like a good player all along. That's probably also the reason why the pass defense is so good this year. Even though Landry looks like a bust, Rogers is a bust, and Horton can't win a starting spot back, Deangelo Hall covers all their men at the same time, and covers up their gaffes. They're so lucky.

"He's gonna get replaced next year and someone else can step in and the defense won't miss him."

Which typifies the idiocy of the front office.

We have needs at LT, RT, C, RG, QB, RB, SLB, and an aging MLB with little depth behind him among other needs, but this front office is going to spend assets on getting a replacement for a relatively young Carlos Rogers for the net gain of "the defense won't miss him."

Man, what a strategy.

And the fans act like they hate Snyder...

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

How can you bite on a double move thats 3/4 yards short of the 1st down line on 3rd and 22?

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 11:54 AM |

You can easily pick up 3/4 yds on a cross by the time you are in the middle of the field. Nobody knows how they schemed out covering Jackson except the coaches but it looked like the plan was to have a safety pick him up on a deep move. It also would have been nice if Rogers had chucked him at the LOS and there had been pocket pressure on McNabb. McN didn't even spot Machlin on the same play run earler. If McN had been on his game, which he wasn't, it would have been a lot uglier than it was.

Posted by: TalkToTheHand | October 28, 2009 12:08 PM

How can you bite on a double move thats 3/4 yards short of the 1st down line on 3rd and 22?

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 11:54 AM |

Maybe you think there's going to be some pressure on the QB on an obvious passing down, and you're thinking there's no way the receiver is going to have time to run a double move on an obvious passing down and besides, it's 22 yards for the first and there's a safety over top helping out anyway.
BTW, how's the weather in Seattle?

Posted by: mack1 | October 28, 2009 12:19 PM

Ok, so I take it mack1 and TalkToTheHAnd did NOT see the 1st Desean JAckson TD run when he flew past everyone, including CR22?

Come on guys....These people are scouted to death. He's is the fastest gu in the NFL right now. And Carlos bit on a double move. I can see if this was his 1st or 2nd time biting on double moves. But, this is like his 20th+ time. (Unscientific).

And if you watch the replay, he clearly was responsible for his 3rd of the field. There were no safeties anywhere close to his side. So, please don't blame this on the pass rush or the safeties. It was strictly on Carlos, and per Carlos, Management for picking him, the wrong player @ #9.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Which TD has Hall let in? Was it Dwayne Bowe?


Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 12:03 PM

I think that was on Carlos....

Posted by: 4thFloor

--------------

It was neither. Dwayne Bowe didn't score a TD. Neither did the Kansas City offense. Shocker, considering we've got 2 busts starting in our secondary.

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Thanks JohnDinHouston for the info on IR!

Posted by: Curzon417 | October 28, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

You are welcome; my personal opinion, since the season is 17 weeks long, they should update that to have a 30 day IR, too, like baseball.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 28, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

The only reason I think Cooley wants to rush back off of this injury for a team that's going nowhere is that he doesn't want to lose his position to Davis or make the team think he's expendable. And I have to say this again, the playcalling was vastly improved compared to Zorn's.

Posted by: ga8085 | October 28, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

A year ago Portis is leading the league in rushing through 8 games and now he garbage and can't play. Hmmmm......I wonder what changed?

Posted by: dcwun | October 28, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Are we still talking about football?

I suggest we go into offseason jibba jabba mode effective immediately.

Which 80's video by Miami Vice actor is worse?

Heartbeat by Don Johnson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULI5kolBpAk

Or

Just the Way I Planned It by Philip Michael Thomas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLRwdbg1xME

You make the call.

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 28, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

psp, wow...so rogers is a good player by your estimation?? 6 interceptions over his career, never more than 2 in one season??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

All of the offensive players have been on a steady decline since Jim Zorn has been HC.

Coincident? I don't think so.

Posted by: Curzon417 | October 28, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Original_etrod

that's almost like voting for president; choice of bad or worse.

Posted by: Curzon417 | October 28, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

It was neither. Dwayne Bowe didn't score a TD. Neither did the Kansas City offense. Shocker, considering we've got 2 busts starting in our secondary.

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse


Right, thanks for the correction.

So let's see.

Did DHall give up the TD to D. Jackson? No, that was Rogers.

Did DHall give up the TD to Antonio Bryant? No, Rogers again.

Did DHall give up the TD to Bryant Johnson? Nope, also Rogers.

Did D.Hall give up the TD to Mannigham? Actually that was Smoot's guy.

So Rogers has given up 3 of the teams 4 passing TDs to WRs...but thank goodness we've got Rogers back there! Without him who knows where our secondary would be ranked!!

And I didn't call Landry a bust...just disappointing so far.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

All of the offensive players have been on a steady decline since Jim Zorn has been HC.

Coincident? I don't think so.

Posted by: Curzon417 | October 28, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Not only that, but none of the young offensive players are making an impact either. But as soon as somebody else takes over the offense, surpise, some of the 2nd rounders make contributions.

Posted by: ga8085 | October 28, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Wow, Rogers has let up, what, 3 TDs on the year, and now he's a bust?

Earlier, I saw someone post that Rogers was the worst starting corner in the league.

Some people just have no ability to judge what good play is relative to their league counterparts.

But I guess this is the natural reaction to the overall sucking that's been going on at Redskins Park.

Posted by: psps23

So, is he still a "top ten" guy?

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | October 28, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

"He's gonna get replaced next year and someone else can step in and the defense won't miss him."

Which typifies the idiocy of the front office.

We have needs at LT, RT, C, RG, QB, RB, SLB, and an aging MLB with little depth behind him among other needs, but this front office is going to spend assets on getting a replacement for a relatively young Carlos Rogers for the net gain of "the defense won't miss him."

Man, what a strategy.

And the fans act like they hate Snyder...

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse


Actually we've got a couple young DBs already on the roster who could probably bite on double-moves and not catch Ints, so we don't even have to use a draft pick to replace him.

But your team-building strategy is much better.

Let's give Rogers the #1 CB money he's gonna demand, and further strap this team with another bloated contract for a guy that QBs seem to pick on in the secondary.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Um, yes Greg, Rogers is a good player, despite his lack of interceptions, just like Rocky McIntosh and London Fletcher are good players despite their lack of sacks, FFs, fumble recoveries, or INTs over the years as well. It's not superstar or bust.

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Watched the game Monday night at the local sports bar. I was soooo embarrassed to be the only Redskin fan there. People kept coming up to me and saying they felt so sorry for me. Most all of them were saying why is your quarterback so hesitant to throw the ball. Looks like he is scared to throw the ball deep. He can't make up his mind. Then they were saying what happen to Portis. He looks old and washed up. Then came Antwaan Randle El fumble on a punt that went off his helmet. I was looking for a brown bag to put over my head. We are the new Raiders.

Posted by: TheJury | October 28, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Rogers is still servicable. But he should not get paid like a top corner. We have needs along the OL we need to address first. If we put up 25 - 30 a game, this D would be just fine. But we can't so the problems become magnified. OL and RB should be our main concerns entering the Draft.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 28, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

"So Rogers has given up 3 of the teams 4 passing TDs to WRs"

Actually, it's 3 of 5. Hall gave up the TD to Laurent Robinson. And Hall was in man-to-man coverage with Jackson on the endaround, failed to take a proper angle, and got smoked around the corner. And he failed to take a proper angle on Manningham's screen, allowing him to embarrass Hall on the way to another TD.

So 3 TDs credited to Rogers, at least 2 directly credited to Hall (with a 3rd with Hall as the secondary culprit, Smoot being the first). So I guess that makes Hall just short of a bust.

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Which 80's video by Miami Vice actor is worse?

It's hard to say, both videos had incredibly cheesy visuals; i'm going to go with PMT's just because it lacked sincerity.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 28, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Actually we've got a couple young DBs already on the roster who could probably bite on double-moves and not catch Ints, so we don't even have to use a draft pick to replace him.

But your team-building strategy is much better.

Let's give Rogers the #1 CB money he's gonna demand, and further strap this team with another bloated contract for a guy that QBs seem to pick on in the secondary.

Posted by: p1funk |

CR will be a restricted free agent. Unless another team offers him #1 money, he's not going anywhere.

What other corners that are on the roster can step in for CR right now? He does have really bad hands but he can cover. All corners het burned from time to time.

Posted by: dcwun | October 28, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

My 2 cents...We have much bigger problems than CR22 to focus on. We need at least 3 olineman and a QB plus an outside LB that isnt Orakpo (he needs to be on the line at all times)

Posted by: scampbell1975
___________________________

Agreed, and for 2 reasons I'd focus on QB first, then OL, in the upcoming draft (even though I totally agree that nothing will work well without a solid OL, and I'd like to eventually see the Skins with a killer OL): [1] It usually takes longer for a QB to develop, so plan for 1 year for the rook to develop (we want to be competitive at least by 2011, right?) behind a vet in 2010, and [2] There's loads of QB talent - allegedly - in this 2010 draft, maybe 5-6 QB's will be taken in round one, and fewer strong OT's and other OL at the top of the first 2 rounds... So let's get a very good OT with our high 2nd round pick instead. Then focus primarily on OL with the other picks and FA. We should "take the swing at" getting a very good to excellent QB by going high at one, in round 1 - this is the year to do it. There's certainly no guarantees, but this helps the odds. But we better have a new & improved GM choosing by then.

Posted by: chasgiffen | October 28, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

yeah psp, except that LFletcher has tackles going for him, he routinely leads the team in tackles...Rocky Mac was a 2nd round pick, something like the 56th overall. You do understand the difference between a 2nd round pick, and the 9th OVERALL....

so what do you guage him being a good player on?

He doesn't get interceptions
He still struggles in coverage
He still can't cover double-moves

I mean, help me understand this??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

It was neither. Dwayne Bowe didn't score a TD. Neither did the Kansas City offense. Shocker, considering we've got 2 busts starting in our secondary.

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 12:48 PM

It's cool. No one is perfect.

But, now you must admit....DeWayne Bowe caught a crucial pass in the 4th QTR when we needed a stop, and Carlos missed a sure tackle DHall style?

And Carlos was 'supposedly' a great tackling CB......

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

If the top OT's are taken by the time the Skins pick, then, and only then would I go for a QB. But if there's a great prospect still available at OT when they pick, I wait till the 2nd round to get a QB or look into FA for a young back up with ability. The thing is, this team doesn't need an outstanding QB to do well, just someone who doesn't turn the ball over too much and can make some big plays from time to time.

Posted by: ga8085 | October 28, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Are we still talking about football?

I suggest we go into offseason jibba jabba mode effective immediately.

Which 80's video by Miami Vice actor is worse?

Heartbeat by Don Johnson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULI5kolBpAk

Or

Just the Way I Planned It by Philip Michael Thomas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLRwdbg1xME

You make the call.

Posted by: Original_etrod
________________

This is great, etrod. I know DJ, and he's quite convinced he's one of the greatest actors and singers of all time. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt... He gets my vote (for worst).

Posted by: chasgiffen | October 28, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Agreed, and for 2 reasons I'd focus on QB first, then OL, in the upcoming draft (even though I totally agree that nothing will work well without a solid OL, and I'd like to eventually see the Skins with a killer OL): [1] It usually takes longer for a QB to develop, so plan for 1 year for the rook to develop (we want to be competitive at least by 2011, right?) behind a vet in 2010, and [2] There's loads of QB talent - allegedly - in this 2010 draft, maybe 5-6 QB's will be taken in round one, and fewer strong OT's and other OL at the top of the first 2 rounds... So let's get a very good OT with our high 2nd round pick instead. Then focus primarily on OL with the other picks and FA. We should "take the swing at" getting a very good to excellent QB by going high at one, in round 1 - this is the year to do it. There's certainly no guarantees, but this helps the odds. But we better have a new & improved GM choosing by then.

Posted by: chasgiffen |

That strategy is why we've stunk for a while. You build your team around the O and D lines. Until we get the O-line handled, we could get Tom Brady and we will still stink. There hasn't been a draft that I can remember when "talented QBs" weren't there.

Taking a QB in the first round would be typical Dan and Vinny.

Posted by: dcwun | October 28, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

My problem with Rogers is he does not intercept passes and so, he doesn't instill any fear into a quarterback trying to force it. Without instilling that fear, he is always going to get picked on. It doesn't matter how good a coverage guy or tackler he is - teams will pick on him.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 28, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Don Johnson & Philip Michael Thomas are both

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 28, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

And Hall was in man-to-man coverage with Jackson on the endaround, failed to take a proper angle, and got smoked around the corner.

By PSP

=============================================

Whoa....just Whoa...

How was DHall supposed to be responsible for that end around going the other way?

1st @ fault was #99, since he has contain. Then Carlos was blocked for 20 yards by a ROOKIE named Maclin. And Landry was the safety on that side. And DHall came running his fastest to catch up to him from the OTHER side.

When a player goes into a 'reverse' type move, that CB (DHall) who was over said person has to maintain his responsibilities such as double reverse, pass, contain, and screen.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Actually, it's 3 of 5. Hall gave up the TD to Laurent Robinson. And Hall was in man-to-man coverage with Jackson on the endaround, failed to take a proper angle, and got smoked around the corner. And he failed to take a proper angle on Manningham's screen, allowing him to embarrass Hall on the way to another TD.

So 3 TDs credited to Rogers, at least 2 directly credited to Hall (with a 3rd with Hall as the secondary culprit, Smoot being the first). So I guess that makes Hall just short of a bust.

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse


So Hall running across the field and trying to make a play on a guy that's not his counts in our tally.

By that accounting, Hall should get at least one of your indirect TDs back for running across the field and chasing down Dwayne Bowe and making a TD-saving tackle at the 9 yard line after Bowe torched Rogers on a quick slant and left him on the ground.

I'm tempted to pull out the Int stats between Hall and Rogers, but I won't bother because we know where that ends up...with you somehow rationalizing away the importance of having a CB that can actually turn ints.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

4th, I don't get it...I mean, defending los's play....I never DREAMED I'd see the day on ri...

I mean, if there is one thing we all seemingly agree on, this was it...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

I'm the master at incomplete thoughts.

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 28, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

1st @ fault was #99, since he has contain. Then Carlos was blocked for 20 yards by a ROOKIE named Maclin. And Landry was the safety on that side. And DHall came running his fastest to catch up to him from the OTHER side.

When a player goes into a 'reverse' type move, that CB (DHall) who was over said person has to maintain his responsibilities such as double reverse, pass, contain, and screen.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse


Hey 4th, don't bother.

Like the saying goes:

You can't rationally talk someone out of a position they did not rationally arrive at.

I don't know if Rogers pulled psps from a burning car or something, but it's clear he's just going to maintain that Rogers is a top 10 CB in the NFL and among the elite in the NFC.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Why don't we just blame Hall for the awful "tackle" on Delhomme? I don't care if he doesn't give up another TD this year, that play sucked...

As for Rogers, he's dropped too many INT's for my liking, and he didn't even try on th Jackson reverse. After the owner comments it's pretty apparent he has thrown in the towel...

Posted by: mattylight | October 28, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

greg, for some, once they start supporting someone it is hard for them to admit that they were wrong. Just wait, stats will come to their rescue.

It is refreshing to see that some are opening their eyes on JC17.

Posted by: Curzon417 | October 28, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Taking a QB in the first round would be typical Dan and Vinny.


Posted by: dcwun | October 28, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

If there was a Peyton Manning or John Elway type prospect then this would be a discussion. There is no surefire NFL stud QB in the draft this year. All we'd be doing is rolling the dice that another average QB could somehow become great and carry this team. Why not build a team that any moron that can count ot potato could run? I'd rather go that route.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 28, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

I could have been the LB's responsibility. Not every play has the DE charged with backside contain.

Posted by: Gweez | October 28, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Did D.Hall give up the TD to Mannigham? Actually that was Smoot's guy.

..


Uh doesn't matter he wiffed on what should have been an EASY tackle on the sideline. Doesn't matter that smoot was on him first, DHall FAILED to get the job done.

Posted by: Veretax | October 28, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Why don't we just blame Hall for the awful "tackle" on Delhomme? I don't care if he doesn't give up another TD this year, that play sucked...

Posted by: mattylight | October 28, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Fair enough.

But let's also give him credit for his int returned to the 1-yard line in that game as well...

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

I just had my best chuckle in a long time.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

"So Hall running across the field and trying to make a play on a guy that's not his counts in our tally."

No, you're right. Tackling isn't a responsibility of CBs, I forgot.

You guys are getting it all twisted. I'm not trying to downgrade Hall. I'm simply saying that you are WAAAAAAY overblowing a few bad plays that Rogers has made, while ignoring the fact that this is a stellar pass defense (unless you aren't ignoring that fact and placing all the praise on DHall alone, which of course would be retarted).

But continue on believing what you want. Rogers sucks, is a bust, and is probably the worst starting corner in the league. Apparently he can't cover, we know he can't catch, and he's the sole reason this defense isn't setting records for aerial defense. Clearly we need an upgrade at that spot.

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

But let's also give him credit for his int returned to the 1-yard line in that game as well...

...

That brought an idea to me.... what if we could find a nother solid Cover corner, move Landry back to Strong Safety and let D Hall play center field? Could that work?

Posted by: Veretax | October 28, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

psp, don't you expect MORE out of him?? He was picked #9 overall in the draft, and he's at best a good cover corner, with incredibly terrible hands, don't you expect MORE out of that pick??

yikes....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Maybe instead of drafting the best player available on their turn to pick, maybe Washington should just pick for need, trading down for more picks if they can, but ultimately getting the right position covered. Drafting the "best player available" is just too easy an excuse for not doing your homework on players and not working the phone lines to make trades.

They need to draft a premier left tackle next year that they can build an offensive line around him. This might mean trading up, but that absolutely has to be job numero uno. Then they need to position themselves to pick up at least two more offensive tackles high in the draft. This might mean trading players or lower round picks to get into position to take the best guys, but that has to be a focus.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 28, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

If you find the actions the Redskins have taken against thier fans insulting, please call Jay Moore at 301-276-6095 to tell him. Then call Jason Friedman at 301-276-6703 to complain about how Jay Moore treated you on the phone. Seriously, everyone needs to do this.

Posted by: rickste101 | October 28, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

I wanted badly to believe in Rogers and Campbell that this would be their breakout season. BADLY.

But, once the preseason got started, JC17 showd his true colors. He has become Patrick Ramsey.

Since Carlos was hurt in the preseason, we weren't able to watch him until the season started. And his bad plays are piling up.

Yes, DHall F'd Up badly on the Manningham TD. Yes, DHall F'd up badly on the Delhomme Bootleg tackle. But his bad plays have seemed to stop.

There goes your difference. (Not to mention even if DHall stopped Carolina, JC17 wouldn't have been able to lead this team down a football field with 40 secs left an NO timeouts. See Detriot Game for my proof)

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

You guys are getting it all twisted. I'm not trying to downgrade Hall. I'm simply saying that you are WAAAAAAY overblowing a few bad plays that Rogers has made, while ignoring the fact that this is a stellar pass defense (unless you aren't ignoring that fact and placing all the praise on DHall alone, which of course would be retarted).

But continue on believing what you want. Rogers sucks, is a bust, and is probably the worst starting corner in the league. Apparently he can't cover, we know he can't catch, and he's the sole reason this defense isn't setting records for aerial defense. Clearly we need an upgrade at that spot.

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse


No, I get it. You were trying to say there's not that big a difference between Hall and Rogers, and I think that is ludicrous.

He coughs up big plays habitually, and he doesn't make any in return.

He's had opportunities in big games to do something to turn the team around and he's muffed them. He's given up some atrocious big-plays in key moments of certain games.

That's not a guy you "need" on your team. That's not a guy you point at on a defense and count yourself lucky to have. It's definitely not a guy you give big $$ to. And when he was selected #9 overall, it's not unreasonable to say he's been bust-level disappointing.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Fair enough.

But let's also give him credit for his int returned to the 1-yard line in that game as well...

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Nah, you mean the one where he got beat to the inside by Muhammed, but Delhomme threw behind him, and DHall happened to be in the right place at the right time?

Sorry, not gonna give a ton of credit for that...

Posted by: mattylight | October 28, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Yes, DHall F'd Up badly on the Manningham TD. Yes, DHall F'd up badly on the Delhomme Bootleg tackle. But his bad plays have seemed to stop.

There goes your difference. (Not to mention even if DHall stopped Carolina, JC17 wouldn't have been able to lead this team down a football field with 40 secs left an NO timeouts. See Detriot Game for my proof)

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse


Hall is not perfect. But the point is that he returns big plays to you. That's why you have him back there. You hope/expect him to learn from his mistakes, and you know that he'll return a big play given the opportunity.

Rogers has been getting cooked on double moves for how long now??? And you never expect him to return a big play to you.

That's just not a guy you "need" on your defense.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Nah, you mean the one where he got beat to the inside by Muhammed, but Delhomme threw behind him, and DHall happened to be in the right place at the right time?

Sorry, not gonna give a ton of credit for that...

Posted by: mattylight

gotta give him credit for catching the ball. If the exact play happened to CR, he would not have caught that ball.

Posted by: Curzon417 | October 28, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

the game is slanted toward offense, so the d will get beat sometimes, the problem is our o never shows up

Posted by: mohawk44 | October 28, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

If there was a Peyton Manning or John Elway type prospect then this would be a discussion. There is no surefire NFL stud QB in the draft this year. All we'd be doing is rolling the dice that another average QB could somehow become great and carry this team. Why not build a team that any moron that can count ot potato could run? I'd rather go that route.
Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 28, 2009 1:24 PM

Agreed. I would say you can get a guy in the 2nd or 3rd and not see much dropoff from the way our QB’s have played this season, plus you will have Colt coming back, and there could always be a decent free agent to pick up and have an open competition. Now that Bradford says he will come out, and has an injury “history” to be concerned about, our FO will take him for sure with our first pick, unless it’s a different FO by then. I would want to see a top flight tackle with our 1st pick, and if there isn’t a top flight tackle, take Taylor Mays, who looks like ST21 reincarnate….

Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 28, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Once again folks, if you live in DC and you need surgery, you leave town. How comforting!

Posted by: 3rings | October 28, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Once again folks, if you live in DC and you need surgery, you leave town. How comforting!

Posted by: 3rings | October 28, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

I'll bite:

If you find the actions the Redskins have taken against thier fans insulting, please call Jay Moore at 301-276-6095

Who's Jay Moore?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 28, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

gotta give him credit for catching the ball. If the exact play happened to CR, he would not have caught that ball.

Posted by: Curzon417 | October 28, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Yay, he caught the ball. How low have our standards dropped?

Posted by: mattylight | October 28, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Nah, you mean the one where he got beat to the inside by Muhammed, but Delhomme threw behind him, and DHall happened to be in the right place at the right time?

Sorry, not gonna give a ton of credit for that...

Posted by: mattylight | October 28, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse


Sure. Don't give any credit for an INT returned to the 1.

How do you think that play would have ended up if it were Carlos Rogers.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Yay, he caught the ball. How low have our standards dropped?

Posted by: mattylight | October 28, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse


Umm. Since when was praising someone for picking off a ball and returning it to the 1 yard line a "low" standard?

Sheesh. If only everyone could play at such a "low" level...

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

If you find the actions the Redskins have taken against thier fans insulting, please call Jay Moore at 301-276-6095 to tell him. Then call Jason Friedman at 301-276-6703 to complain about how Jay Moore treated you on the phone.
Jay Moore is a customer service rep who does not believe fans are actually upset with the team and believes the media has blown the anger out of proportion. He also was ridiculous enough to compare the current Redskins to the Steelers of the 90's which is absurd.
Jason Friedman is his boss - I am preemptively giving you his number so after Jay Moore is rude you can go straight to his boss.

Posted by: rickste101 | October 28, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Yay, he caught the ball. How low have our standards dropped?

Posted by: mattylight |

It's not that the standards are low, it's that you do not want to give credit to someone who made a play. I am sure that Hall will make many more mistakes in his NFL career, but give the guy the credit to catch the ball and take it back to the one.

Low standards would have been if our CB defended the pass by dropping a ball that hit him in the hands (read CR22).

Posted by: Curzon417 | October 28, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Even if we can't put Cooley on IR... or backfill his roster spot with a much needed offensive lineman... would stongly suggest that somebody hires a new hairdresser for him.

The blonde bob looked like a Saturday morning special from "Pets Are Us" -- a rather cheap, tacky, nasty and uncool look for this millionaire athlete.

Even with the expectation of diminished playing time over the next four or so weeks, he should still certainly be able to afford a better do than that.

Posted by: Vic1 | October 28, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Sure. Don't give any credit for an INT returned to the 1.

How do you think that play would have ended up if it were Carlos Rogers.


Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

p1funk,

Let me clarify. IMO, it was a lucky play. I'm not comparing Hall and Rogers, we all know Rogers has a couple of bricks attached to his arms and wouldn't have caught the ball. All I am saying is that my standards for someone who makes the kind of money Hall does are a little higher than that. Guy can't tackle worth crap, and with the game on the line got dragged by a 40 yr. old QB. Pathetic. There have been other plays like that (people have already referenced Manningham) as well. So yay! Hall can catch. Minus the lack of durability, Springs was twice the corner Hall is...

Posted by: mattylight | October 28, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Anyone know why there is NOT a Sunday night game this week? Just curious....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 28, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

I'm guessing, world series? Not that it's a network conflict, but an event conflict

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 28, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Anyone know why there is NOT a Sunday night game this week? Just curious....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 28, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Only thing I can think of is the WS...but I don't see how that would interfere with anything...

Posted by: mattylight | October 28, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Minus the lack of durability, Springs was twice the corner Hall is...

Posted by: mattylight | October 28, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse


Agree to disagree.

Durability isn't something you can just take out of the equation. I'd much rather be paying a guy alot of money to be on the field and get a chance to make plays (and sometimes miss som), than pay a guy alot of money to sit on a trainer's table 8 games out of the year.

That's like saying "minus the tackling issue, Hall is twice the CB Springs is".

Besides, "Sharpie" Springs gave up plays in his day too...

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Oh yeah, it probably is due to the WS…….
But speaking of Hall….Did anyone else notice D Hall run over to Danny Smith following the 3 and out after the 1st TD? I can only assume he was begging to be put in for the punt return….you know; the one ARE head butted…….just wondering if anyone else noticed that and if it came up in any local post game interviews or anything. When I saw that I was thinking “heck yeah, put back there….he could take it to the house”. Could have been a bold call and kept up the momentum…..I think he put Moss back for one of the next few punts.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 28, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

If you find the actions the Redskins have taken against thier fans insulting, please call Jay Moore at 301-276-6095 to tell him. Then call Jason Friedman at 301-276-6703 to complain about how Jay Moore treated you on the phone. Seriously, everyone needs to do this.

Posted by: rickste101

Seriously....NO.

Posted by: dcwun | October 28, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Agree to disagree.

Durability isn't something you can just take out of the equation. I'd much rather be paying a guy alot of money to be on the field and get a chance to make plays (and sometimes miss som), than pay a guy alot of money to sit on a trainer's table 8 games out of the year.

That's like saying "minus the tackling issue, Hall is twice the CB Springs is".

Besides, "Sharpie" Springs gave up plays in his day too...

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

I'm not saying you discount the injury thing, that's obviously one reason we cut him loose in the offseason. But Springs could tackle, Grilliams used him on corner blitzes a lot back in the day, he was a plus in the run game, and he could cover the best WR's and shut them down (see T.O. in his prime in Dallas). Hall can't tackle, therefore is a minus in stopping the run, and gets paid a ton of money. For the kind of dough he makes, I would prefer a complete CB, though I am glad he can at least catch the ball when it comes his way, unlike Iron Hands Rogers...

Posted by: mattylight | October 28, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Let 'em know what you think:

21300 Redskin Park Drive

Scampbell, this is a guy, (that good ol' Rockville Snidely Owl, that is making people remove t-shirts that say "Fire Vinny" and "Fire Snyder". Signs, any signs are forbidden. Who knows what this lunatic will do when the "sell-the-team" chant goes up again. Hire someone to machine gun the crowd?

Better to write the POTUS, your congress critter, your local legislator ... and perhaps since you are so talented at this? Start a facebook page to convince this nutcase to sell the team. Connect that to a real web page. Publicize it on all the blogs. Find and publish evidence against Snyder. That's your best bet.

Posted by: periculum | October 28, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

"Taking a QB in the first round would be typical Dan and Vinny."

"If there was a Peyton Manning or John Elway type prospect then this would be a discussion. There is no sure fire NFL stud QB in the draft this year."


These comments are way off the mark.

How does anyone know if a guy is going to be a 'Peyton Manning' until he's drafted and plays?

In 2005, Aaron Rodgers went a couple picks before Jason Campbell: how would one know if one guy was a keeper and the other a bust based on anything other than an educated guess?

Too, Vinny and Danny took Pat Ramsey and Jason Campbell at the advice of two coaches who claimed to know what they were looking for: Steve Spurrier/St Joe Gibbs.

Fact is, no one knows if Jake Locker, Sam Bradford, Colt McCoy, Tim Tebow or any other college quarterback will succeed in the NFL--a fact that's true at any position, just ask the raiders about Robert Gallery.

The most salient evidence seems to be how many games a guy started, football intelligence, the degree to which he's accurate all over the field, and the type of system requirements he learned under while in college.

And when you factor all these issues together, it's why Jake Locker/Sam Bradford look like they might be worth the 1st round investment.

But not Tebow or McCoy.

And definately not Campbell or Ramsey.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 28, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

So let me get this straight (rant after today's latest announcement re tailgating).


The Skins:
-Bought out to last privately owned parking (Tailgate field), and upped the prices by $10
-Didn't upgrade any existing ticket holders this year unless they paid for a new seat. (Personal experience with this! I had to buy a new seat to get moved and they UPPED MY PER TICKET PRICE to $80 a seat in the uppers)
-Severely limited tailgating areas
-Upped concession prices in a recession -Kicked fans out for chanting "Snyder Sucks"
-Banned ANY signs in the stadium
-Made people turn their t-shirts around if they mocked Snyder/Cerato
-Sued their season ticket holders
-and now: Banned the Media from interviewing tailgaters

And the season is only 1/2 finished! I still love the team, but I REALLY hate the owner. After this season, I'm not giving him another cent of my money. Anyone else feel me?

Posted by: HenryHog | October 28, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

And when you factor all these issues together, it's why Jake Locker/Sam Bradford look like they might be worth the 1st round investment.

Stop this Moe, in every expert's opinion including one great former Giant's QB Phil Simms, the safest bet to rebuilding this offense and any offense is to draft OFFENSIVE TACKLES first! Its what Parcells did when he took JAKE LONG. Parcells, you remember Parcells don't you? And St. Joe Gibbs also brought in Brunell just in case Ramsey and Campbell didn't pan out. And its likely, if he would have stayed, he would have brought in another veteran for the same purpose. See bringing in Doug Williams, former TB 1st of the 1st rounders pick, just in case Jay Schroeder didn't pan out.

Posted by: periculum | October 28, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

we're gonna need a bigger boat:

Sky – A giant shark that could be up to 20ft long has sent shockwaves across Australian beaches after a great white was nearly bitten in half. A stunning picture shows a 10ft predator thrashing about with two massive chunks missing on either side of its body, off the Queensland coast. Experts said its rival may be 20ft (about six metres) long, judging by the size of the huge bites. The wounded creature was still alive when a crew hauled it onto a boat, close to Deadman’s Beach. “It certainly opened up my eyes. I mean the shark that was caught is a substantial shark in itself,” Queensland Fisheries’ Jeff Krause told Australia’s Daily Telegraph. Swimmers have been warned to stay out of the water near the island. The attack also worried many at a nearby tourist Mecca – Surfers Paradise, south of Brisbane. Surfer Ashton Smith, 19, of the Gold Coast, told the Courier Mail: “I’ve heard about the big one lurking. Every surfer is always cautious over here.”

check out sky news, australian newspaper, you've gotta see this photo...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

DC Wun, if they don't think people are angry, how do you expect change. Instead of ranting here, why don't you actually call someone at the team. If people the take 2 seconds to do that, who knows, someone important may actually notice.

Or just keep ranting here where no one important pays any attention.

Posted by: rickste101 | October 28, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

-a fact that's true at any position, just ask the raiders about Robert Gallery.

He has become an above average guard. And many experts wonder how he would be if he were with another team, other than the dysfunctional Raiders, with a good system and offensive line coach.

Posted by: periculum | October 28, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

3 TDs are 2 more than DHall has let up....

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Which TD has Hall let in? Was it Dwayne Bowe?

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

you guys are not really defending DHall are you? He gives a 12 yard cushion on his receiver. Gets routinely abused because of it. Occasionally jumps a route and make a play. But so far from a shutdown corner. Rogers' coverage on that 3rd and 23 was horrible, I'll give you that...all he had to do was stay outside, Horton and another DB had the middle covered...but Hall has been a total bust IMO. I don't care about his 3 INTs - if he could tackle we might've won that Carolina game. And Bowe owned him against KC

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | October 28, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

"Besides, "Sharpie" Springs gave up plays in his day too...

Posted by: p1funk"

And obviously, he's a bust too.

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Hail to the DeadSkins
No victory
We can't score touchdowns,
We just take the three!

Run or pass and score, we need a lot more.
Portis doesn't practice 'cause his foot's sore.
Gripe on, gripe on 'til Vin-ny's gone.
Shame on Wash-ing-ton
Boo, Boo, Boo!

Hail to the DeadSkins,
No victory
Let's send Dan Snyder
to Africa to plant some trees.

Posted by: yauzzza | October 28, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

-a fact that's true at any position, just ask the raiders about Robert Gallery.

He has become an above average guard. And many experts wonder how he would be if he were with another team, other than the dysfunctional Raiders, with a good system and offensive line coach.

Posted by: periculum

He's right MOE. The Skins shouldn't think about wasting a high pick on a QB until they fix the obvious.

Posted by: dcwun | October 28, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

I bet if that 20 foot Great White came to the Skins, he'd be a bust

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | October 28, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

"He coughs up big plays habitually, and he doesn't make any in return."

Habitually? Two big plays in 7 games so far?

Three double moves in 3 years?

Call the cops. This guy is a bust.

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

"Besides, "Sharpie" Springs gave up plays in his day too...

Posted by: p1funk"

And obviously, he's a bust too.

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse


Someone give psps a hanky.

I know it's embarrasing when your irrationality gets outed in a public forum.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

check out sky news, australian newspaper, you've gotta see this photo...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1
_______________

Awesome. You have a link for that?

Posted by: chasgiffen | October 28, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

dlhaze1,
I didn't see that, but would love to see what Hall could do as punt returner for the Redskins. The guy was exciting to watch in college.

As long as we are talking about things people may have not noticed, have you noticed when people talk about the Redskins' special teams, they say they are great on their coverage units? I did some research. Of all the players that have returned punts this year, ARE ranks 49th on the list for average return yards. That actually means there are some teams that have two players that are better at returning punts than ARE. Cartwright, on the other hand, ranks 8th for overall yards of returns (average wasn't available for some reason).

So, if ARE is that miserable, how does it makes sense to keep him in? This is a question I want someone to ask of Zorn. Jim Zorn, your punt returns are pathetic and yet you continue to use the same guy for returns - how does this make sense? I think it makes more sense to use Devin Thomas or possibly even Rock Cartwright - or, just don't have a returner and line up eleven guys to block every punt...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 28, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 28, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

I'd rather take a chance on an OT than a QB. As stated earlier, at least you can move a OT to Guard if he's struggling. Can't do anything with a QB but sit him on the bench.

Posted by: ga8085 | October 28, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Discontent is clearly high. Websites are going up, attendance is going down, Anti-Snyder/Cerrato tee-shirt are being printed, even the Sports Junkies were talking this morning about organizing a protest and/or mass producing tees for fans to wear at the next home game.

My take is this - I love the passion and the outrage. But it must be organized and consolidated to have any meaningful effect. I am going to try and contact the host/founder of the bigger websites, FB groups, etc and see if we can't bring them together. You know how the old saying goes - United we stand...divided we remain Snyder's b!tch

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | October 28, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

"I know it's embarrasing when your irrationality gets outed in a public forum.

Posted by: p1funk"

Yea, I'm irrational. You've got a defense giving up 164 yards per game through the air, and I'm irrational for proclaiming that one of the starting corners is, in fact, a good player.

But you're 100% correct. The 3rd best pass-defense in the league has a bust sitting at one corner, and another disappointment sitting at free safety. Clearly we have the greatest CB and SS to ever play the game sitting opposite those two.

Sorry for my irrationality. It all makes sense now. Thanks for clearing that up for me funk.

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

We could definitely do better at CB than either Rogers or Hall. But we can certainly do worse.

Rogers and Hall are being piled on because when you look at the plays they gave up it looks like it led to the Skins losing games. The D has played really good football so far this year even with some mistakes.

The real problem is the O side of the ball. IMO Rogers an Hall are not costing the Skins any games. The lack of O is what is costing the Skins games.

JGibbs running game sustained the Skins through the first half last year, but once Zorn started to implement more of his play book, the O started to suffer.

The Skins record is the direct result of an arrogant HC who is completely lost and can't see the forest for the trees.

And Vinny for not doing his job regarding the OL.

F Vinny and F Zorn. Fire them both immediately!!

Posted by: Curzon417 | October 28, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

psps, what is it with you, man? Why are you always defending dudes that are clearly busts?

I think the definiton of a bust is someone who hasn't put out the production to quantify where they were picked in the draft. For me this applies from rounds 1-3, because after that it's basically a crap shoot.

C'mon, psps. Clearly Rogers' play hasn't justified him being picked ninth overall.

Neither has Bush, who was picked second overall.

Posted by: RedDMV | October 28, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

In cover 2 scheme Rogers can bite all he wants because he is suppose to have saftey help, the real culprit is Horton HE IS NOT SUPPOSE TO BITE AT ALL playing the deep half. Its what got him benched after the Lions game, Landry is a natural strong saftey but until we get better safety play from the other side HE will continue to play free safety (diminishing his blitz potential)

Posted by: Istudydrugs | October 28, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: BeantownGreg1
_______________

Awesome. You have a link for that?

Posted by: chasgiffen |

lol asking greg for a link!

http://www.abcnews.go.com/WN/shark-shark-attack-off-australias-coast/story?id=8925786

Posted by: Curzon417 | October 28, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

In theory I'd like to focus on the OL and take an OT in the first round next year. The compelling argument I've heard against that: Next year's draft we'll probably have the best draft position that we will have for some time.

Suppose we do go OL first round and thereafter, and then our offense improves at least enough to have us go 7-9, or 8-8. Well it's nice to see improvement there, but then the following year our draft position puts us out of range of the #1 QB for that draft. So this coming year is our best chance to get that elite QB we've always wanted.

So now after considering that, I'm pretty torn on the issue. I now lean towards QB first round (if we can get the first or 2nd best), and OL thereafter, with free agent attention to the OL as well.

Posted by: REXskins | October 28, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

RE: Shark

Holy Schnikes! Thanks for the link, Greg.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 28, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Yea, I'm irrational. You've got a defense giving up 164 yards per game through the air, and I'm irrational for proclaiming that one of the starting corners is, in fact, a good player.

But you're 100% correct. The 3rd best pass-defense in the league has a bust sitting at one corner, and another disappointment sitting at free safety. Clearly we have the greatest CB and SS to ever play the game sitting opposite those two.

Sorry for my irrationality. It all makes sense now. Thanks for clearing that up for me funk.

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

psps23,

Only fair to add that the numbers you just gave are against the worst teams in the league, save for the Giants and Eagles. The secondary gave up a huge momentum killing play in the 2nd quarter with the 3rd and 23 touchdown pass, Carlos couldn't do his job against Bowe or get off a block to tackle Jackson. If McNabb was paying attention, he would have seen Maclin all alone for another 50+ yard TD. Stafford looked like a seasoned vet against us, etc.

I think it's very reasonable to say the defense has played pretty well so far. But not up to the hype as one of the league's elite. And Rogers, drafted in the top 10, has been a disappointment in the big moments with the dropped picks, etc. Can we at least agree there?

Posted by: mattylight | October 28, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

"After surgery, Cooley could be back in four weeks

Redskins tight end Chris Cooley underwent successful surgery on the broken bone in his lower right leg Wednesday morning, a team spokesman said, and if there are no setbacks, the Pro Bowler could be back in a month."

Tough call for Chris. After four weeks this team will likely be at a lovely 2-9, so why risk further injury in a lost cause?

On the other hand Corporate Cooley needs to keep his Brand in front of the Public.

I wish him well.

But this is all irrelevant. The sturm and drang surrounding the Redskins, particularly regarding newly enforced or added "no communication" not signs, no t-shirt policies at and near FedEx, will make ANY and all free agents think more than once about coming to this mess of a franchise.

I know some people see only the $$$, and they may come here,but as Dan has shown often in the past, these guys don't help the team.

Grim times, fans, grim times.

Posted by: TheCork | October 28, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

You got city hands Mr. Hooper, been countin money all your life.

Mr. Hooper, I’m not talkin’ about pleasure boatin’ or daily sailin’.
I’m talkin’ about workin’ for a livin’. I’m talkin’ about sharkin’!

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Yea, I'm irrational. You've got a defense giving up 164 yards per game through the air, and I'm irrational for proclaiming that one of the starting corners is, in fact, a good player.

But you're 100% correct. The 3rd best pass-defense in the league has a bust sitting at one corner, and another disappointment sitting at free safety. Clearly we have the greatest CB and SS to ever play the game sitting opposite those two.

Sorry for my irrationality. It all makes sense now. Thanks for clearing that up for me funk.

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse


Yeah, you are irrational. If you want to get technical you keep employing a "whole-to-part" logical fallacy.

Where something is true of the whole, you assume it is also true of the individual parts.

You keep rolling out statistics for the Skins defense as a whole, and then make the connection that what is good about the whole outlook is also true of Carlos Rogers as one part of it.

But when you look at Carlos Rogers as an individual in that whole you discover that he's been giving up more TDs than the other CBs and that he doesn't turn any big plays.

He is part of the whole, but he is readily identified as one of the weaker links of the whole.

Is that clear enough for you?

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

In theory I'd like to focus on the OL and take an OT in the first round next year. The compelling argument I've heard against that: Next year's draft we'll probably have the best draft position that we will have for some time.

Suppose we do go OL first round and thereafter, and then our offense improves at least enough to have us go 7-9, or 8-8. Well it's nice to see improvement there, but then the following year our draft position puts us out of range of the #1 QB for that draft. So this coming year is our best chance to get that elite QB we've always wanted.

So now after considering that, I'm pretty torn on the issue. I now lean towards QB first round (if we can get the first or 2nd best), and OL thereafter, with free agent attention to the OL as well.

Posted by: REXskins | October 28, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

The issue is that the elite QB doesn't exists in this draft. Who is it? Locker, Bradford, McCoy or Claussen? None of them are regarded as elite propects like Peyton, Aaron Rodgers, Phillip Rivers, and dare I say Ryan Leaf. Just because there are a lot of them doesn't mean they're good. All these QBs coming out this year are seen as highly questionable an none of them are deserving of a top 5 pick.

Claussen-has great arm strength but is seen as having trouble reading defenses and sometimes looks lost out there (sound familiar?)

Bradford-supposedly benefitted form a great offensive line and is now injured

McCoy-Supposedly lacks elite arm strength and has trouble going through progressions

There are tackles that are seen as being great picks.

Russell Okung is by all accounts the next greatest offensive tackle. If we get a shot at him we need to take him. If not we should trade back.


Bruce Campbell
Brian Bulaga
Charles Brown

These guys are widely seen as pretty safe bets.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 28, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

"Stop this Moe, in every expert's opinion including one great former Giant's QB Phil Simms, the safest bet to rebuilding this offense and any offense is to draft OFFENSIVE TACKLES first!"

Hold up, brother.

Put the pie down before you throw it at the wrong guy.

I'll get serious and repeat what I really think: sign Jason Campbell to a low ball incentive laden deal.

Why put a young'n quarterback behind the disasterous offensive line the skins feature?

Why draft a quarterback and then expose him to the kind of beating that fractures a guy's ego and learning curve?

You re-sign Campbell to take the licking while the line is re-assembled.

The skins should shake Joe Bugel's hand and issue him out the door, then hire away some team's offensive line coach as Joe has overstayed his welcome.

The skins should take a long look at Levi Jones and Mike Williams and ascertain which guy is a keeper: if the first round pick is a tackle, having either one allows you to take a right guard later in the draft.

The singular offensive skill player needed would be a speed back and Jacoby Ford would satisfy as much as CJ Spiller.

The redskin offense needs power up front and speed out of the backfield.

We're in agreement about the offensive line.

But not in agreement about using the 1st pick to take the fastest back in the draft: CJ Spiller.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 28, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Yikes! Does that shark go on IR, or do they hold a spot open, hoping he can rehab the "injury?"

Posted by: 4-12 | October 28, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

I’m with psps that Rogers is okay, and I actually hope we resign him next year for cheap. He’s not great though, and I wouldn’t take him at #9 if I had a do-over.
But psps you should also keep in mind that the pass rush this year is leaps and bounds ahead of where it has been for the past several so that is making the pass defense look that much better……

As far as being a “bust”, I wouldn’t necessarily have extremely high hopes for anyone taken in the first round above pick number 5…..there would be a TON of guys taken 6 through 32 that haven’t panned out. Aside from being the number 9 pick, I don’t remember very much hype over the guy….skins just needed another corner; it was even debatable over who the best corner in that draft was going to be. It’s not like he was everyone’s consensus all world corner, so it’s tough to say he is a bust. It just so happens that he went number 9. If the skins hadn’t taken him, he might have gone into the 2nd round.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 28, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Moe, I'm with you - why write Campbell off, if we can have him QB the 2010 Redskins Rebuild 1.1.

There's no reason to think that next year will be a playoff year, and no reason to waste picks or money that does not directly improve the offensive line.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 28, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

hopefully with that link it will cease the chatter about 'fake' links, and incorrect pft postings....still hurts....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Anyone who feels this is suppression of free speech and harrassment should contact Fed-Ex ( a publicly traded company) who's name Danny's field bears, voice your displeasure, and ask if they share Snyder's stance towards harrassment and suppression of the rights of it's customers.

Posted by: KurtShanaman | October 28, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Although the link is real, I have my doubts about the photo being legit.

Posted by: 4-12 | October 28, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

The skins should take a long look at Levi Jones and Mike Williams and ascertain which guy is a keeper: if the first round pick is a tackle, having either one allows you to take a right guard later in the draft.

That's easy. You definitely keep both. One is learning to play guard pretty well. Both are $CHEAP$. Both appear to be upgrades over Batista, Heyer, Montgomery, and Rinehart.

Then you draft 2 tackle/guards 1 and 2. And then you draft the best C/G. You can. Before I would waste a 1st round pick on a 3 year wait (QB) I draft a top corner who can help the team immediately. You're going to lose Rogers and Campbell of their own volition. Believe me.

You hire a president, a GM, and a new HC and you convince someone like David Carr that things have changed and that he has an opportunity resurrect his career. You keep Colt and let him compete for the job. You sign another QB and let Collins go (age).

Will this happen? Not with Snidely the lunatic in charge. Not in a million years.

Posted by: periculum | October 28, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

"I know it's embarrasing when your irrationality gets outed in a public forum.

Posted by: p1funk"

Yeah, sure. When someone challenged mine here once, I wouldn't leave the house for a week.

Seriously, are you kidding?

"Irationality" is coin of the realm here. But then, look at the team we follow, and management thereof.

it's protective coloration.

On a related note, my lifelong philosophy is what's kept me a 'skins fan during the current mess:

"Self-delusion, the key to happiness."

Posted by: TheCork | October 28, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

I thought your life-long philosophy was, "self medicating"....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

WIth everything else that is needed.. I dont think the skins have the luxery of letting Rogers go.. They dont need to be looking for another Corner right now also.. If Rogers is reasonable then i say resign him... Unless theres another young FA out there in the offseason..

I dont trust any of the corners on the roster to take his spot..

Posted by: cocodc1 | October 28, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

self pollution?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 28, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

i am running out of things to break in my basement, I am going to the dollar store to reload during the bye week

Posted by: connskins | October 28, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, sure. When someone challenged mine here once, I wouldn't leave the house for a week.

Seriously, are you kidding?

"Irationality" is coin of the realm here. But then, look at the team we follow, and management thereof.

it's protective coloration.

On a related note, my lifelong philosophy is what's kept me a 'skins fan during the current mess:

"Self-delusion, the key to happiness."

Posted by: TheCork | October 28, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse


Nice try, Cork.

We know you don't leave the house ever.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Cooley may still be leading the team in receptions after another 4-5 weeks, especially since JC17 couldn't find an open receiver downfield with a guidedog and a flashlight.

Posted by: Vic1 | October 28, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

"He is part of the whole, but he is readily identified as one of the weaker links of the whole.

Is that clear enough for you?

Posted by: p1funk"

And you are, and have been, irrationally and consistently employing the 'weakest-link' to weak-link logical fallacy.

As in simply because Carlos Rogers is the 'weakest' among DHall, Laron Landry, and Reed Doughty/Chris Horton, that automatically makes him a weak link.

Which is about as logically inept as saying that because Steve Breaston is the worst of the trio of WRs that include Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin, that automatically identifies Steve Breaston as a weak link.

And when you look at Carlos Rogers individually, you see that he is NOT giving up more yards and TDs than most starting cornerbacks in the league, even if he is giving up more than the guy playing opposite him on his team.

Is that clear enough for you?

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

But not in agreement about using the 1st pick to take the fastest back in the draft: CJ Spiller.

There's always another streetcar Moe, Build an offensive line, and Portis and Betts might look all-pro. Portis and Betts contracts appear to exclude the possibility of playing your man Spiller. Now 2011 may be a difference story. And anyway its best to start the same way defensive specialist Bill Parcells did, (Bill Parcells remember him Moe? ) You draft JAKE LONG and his long lost TWIN and sing hallelujah.

Posted by: periculum | October 28, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

So let me get this straight (rant after today's latest announcement re tailgating).


The Skins:
-Bought out to last privately owned parking (Tailgate field), and upped the prices by $10
-Didn't upgrade any existing ticket holders this year unless they paid for a new seat. (Personal experience with this! I had to buy a new seat to get moved and they UPPED MY PER TICKET PRICE to $80 a seat in the uppers)
-Severely limited tailgating areas
-Upped concession prices in a recession -Kicked fans out for chanting "Snyder Sucks"
-Banned ANY signs in the stadium
-Made people turn their t-shirts around if they mocked Snyder/Cerato
-Sued their season ticket holders
-and now: Banned the Media from interviewing tailgaters

And the season is only 1/2 finished! I still love the team, but I REALLY hate the owner. After this season, I'm not giving him another cent of my money. Anyone else feel me?

Posted by: HenryHog

well I don't live in DC, so the only money Snyder has gotten from me was for my authentic Leigh Torrence game jersey, but when you see all this stuff in one list, it makes me wonder how it is possible to root for a team and against it's owner.

It's a conundrum, I tell yuh.

And it's going Viral...

Posted by: TheCork | October 28, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Build an O-line, first and foremost. Redskins fans should know this above all others.

See, Smith, Timmy

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 28, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Cooley may still be leading the team in receptions after another 4-5 weeks, especially since JC17 couldn't find an open receiver downfield with a guidedog and a flashlight.
Posted by: Vic1 | October 28, 2009 3:08 PM

That’s just dumb…if he had a guide dog in one hand and a flash light in the other, he wouldn’t be able to hold on to the football. Oh, wait……nevermind.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 28, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Nice try, Cork.

We know you don't leave the house ever.

Posted by: p1funk

Oh yeah? Check with your wife.

Hey, someone's got to take her to the Groomers.

Seriously funk, don't come to a gunfight with a Swiss Army Knife. A

Posted by: TheCork | October 28, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Holy shnikes indeed! I presume you lose control of all bodily functions when you see a 20ft shark especially a great white.

I think I'd be an appetizer for a shark that size and I am not that small.

Hey does anyone listen to Cerrato's radio show? I'm just curious if it's a weekly version Hail to Our Dear Leader Kim Il Snyder.

Posted by: sfskin | October 28, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

I thought your life-long philosophy was, "self medicating"....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 3:06 PM

Nope. Got Dr. Feelgood on retainer.

Posted by: TheCork | October 28, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Moe? Replace Buges? That's blasphemy. :) If Russ Grimm were available to be the HC, mebbe he hires Raleigh McKenzie? :) This is crackpipe dreaming. Give Buges the right guys and he will do well by them.

Posted by: periculum | October 28, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Which is about as logically inept as saying that because Steve Breaston is the worst of the trio of WRs that include Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin, that automatically identifies Steve Breaston as a weak link.

And when you look at Carlos Rogers individually, you see that he is NOT giving up more yards and TDs than most starting cornerbacks in the league, even if he is giving up more than the guy playing opposite him on his team.

Is that clear enough for you?

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse


It identifies Steve Breaston as the worst of the three, and therefore not equal to them. What's your point? Mine is that Carlos Rogers is a weak link in the secondary, and he's not as good as DHall. Do you disagree?

And as for your second part, this is what we call a "Red Herring". The argument you were making had to do with pegging Rogers' value to the performance of the defense he plays on.

Now you are going off on a tangent and introducing a new dimension unrelated to the previous one: making an argument based on Rogers' performance relative to other starting CBs on other teams.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Yes the season is over and we are in Dante's 9th circle of hell as a team and fans but do we think there is any way we could light a fire under our collective patooties team most especially for Dallas?

I really really really really want to beat them once this season. Any chance . . . at all . . . please . . .(drooping over in my chair)

Posted by: sfskin | October 28, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

That’s just dumb…if he had a guide dog in one hand and a flash light in the other, he wouldn’t be able to hold on to the football. Oh, wait……nevermind.

There's a direct correlation between the 20 sacks, the even greater number of hurries, the dearth of any sort of consistent running attack, and the fumbles. Don't you think? This TEAM is bad right along with its quarterback. Whether they improve remains to be seen. There does seem to be a glimmer, and I emphasize glimmer, of hope in Williams improving play and the acquisition of another 1st rounder Levi Jones.

Posted by: periculum | October 28, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Build an O-line, first and foremost. Redskins fans should know this above all others.

See, Smith, Timmy

Posted by: JohnDinHouston

Yep. You would think that everyone would know this given the average QBs that have won Championships with the Skins.

All of this RB and QB 1st round garbage is Snyderesque.

Posted by: dcwun | October 28, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Mine is that Carlos Rogers is a weak link in the secondary, and he's not as good as DHall ...

It doesn't matter because Rogers is gone, gone, gone, gone after this season. And probably so too should Smoot. Hall is not a shutdown cover corner that's for sure. They need to spend some money on another good corner or two. They may get some CAP relief when Samuels and Thomas retire. But of this I am not sure?

Posted by: periculum | October 28, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

I was wondering when we'd come around to Buges... he's one of the constants to point at as well in the diminishing line performance.

I don't know enough about playing the position to tell you if their fundamentals are established... but somehow they're breaking down and coaching bears at least some responsibility, doesn't it?

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 28, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Seriously funk, don't come to a gunfight with a Swiss Army Knife. A

Posted by: TheCork | October 28, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse


MacGyver would disagree.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

The season is a lost cause. Sit the guy for the year, let him heal entirely and let the young players develop. Cooley is
a proven.

Though I still don't think we needed 2 WRs and a TE in the draft that year, let them play and develop. Stop this we are a great team expectation and learn how to grow and develop players. they don't need to be all pros to get on the field. Call plays for what they can do. Apparently they can do something!

Posted by: oknow1 | October 28, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Broken bones and fractures still take 6 weeks to heal. Maybe Cooley can play. Why not interview the doc who did the surgery
Cindy?

Posted by: vaherder | October 28, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

There's a direct correlation between the 20 sacks, the even greater number of hurries, the dearth of any sort of consistent running attack, and the fumbles. Don't you think? This TEAM is bad right along with its quarterback. Whether they improve remains to be seen. There does seem to be a glimmer, and I emphasize glimmer, of hope in Williams improving play and the acquisition of another 1st rounder Levi Jones.
Posted by: periculum | October 28, 2009 3:26 PM
I agree that the team is bad and the oline is bad, yes. But please explain to me how the Oline has caused JC to fumble 10 times in 20 sacks (according to nfl dot com) this year, as opposed to last year when he only fumbled 7 times in 38 sacks……how have the oline and running backs caused his RATE OF FUMBLES to increase? Last year he fumbled one per every 5.5 sacks….this year it’s once per every other sack. Is the oline knocking the ball out of his hands this year?

Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 28, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

I was wondering when we'd come around to Buges... he's one of the constants to point at as well in the diminishing line performance.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 28, 2009 3:30 PM

Even Buges can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Or even a hog out of a sow's rear.

Posted by: League-Source | October 28, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

it's amazing how many link come up if you type "boycott the redskins" in google...

Posted by: Moose33 | October 28, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

It would be nice to have Bugel come out and say I need new players to make this work and that we should have drafted OL. But that won't happen either

Posted by: connskins | October 28, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

peri

"Give Buges the right guys and he will do well by them."

I'm not the emotional type.

The Hogs and the Golden Years of the Redskins great offensive lines are things of mythology and memory.

There are several very good offensive line coaches today: and not all of them have to come out of the redskin family tree.

Whomever is hired to be head coach should be enabled to hire a line coach who has a clear vision of the kind of guys needed to be drafted.

Nothing against Joe Bugel, by the way.

But at some point, given the sorry state the offensive line is in, he does share in as much blame as the people who didn't draft offensive linemen or trade for quality.

After all: if Zorn can be blamed for the playcalling, then Buges can be blamed for the o-line coaching.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 28, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: snydercash4clunkers | October 28, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

"I think the definiton of a bust is someone who hasn't put out the production to quantify where they were picked in the draft.

C'mon, psps. Clearly Rogers' play hasn't justified him being picked ninth overall.

Posted by: RedDMV"

You way overestimate expectations from those draft picks. We got a consistent, full-time starter that has been a mainstay on a perennial top 10 defense. That's far from a bust.

Look at the past draft picks at the #9 slot over the past decade.

2008: Keith Rivers - OLB
2007: Ted Ginn, Jr. - WR
2006: Ernie Sims - OLB
2005: Carlos Rogers - CB
2004: Reggie Williams - WR
2003: Kevin Williams - DT
2002: John Henderson - DT
2001: Koren Robinson - WR
2000: Brian Urlacher - MLB

Look at who was selected in the top 10 of Rogers' own draft.

Alex Smith
Ronnie Brown
Braylon Edwards
Cedric Benson
Cadillac Williams
Pacman Jones
Troy Williamson
Antrel Rolle
Carlos Rogers
Mike Williams (WR)

Of the list of #9 picks, only Urlacher and Kevin Williams have been better. Of his own draft class, only Ronnie Brown has been (arguably) better than Rogers for his team. You're insane if the expectation of every top 10 pick (and especially late in the top 10) is to be an all-pro. Has he been a revelation? No. Has he been a franchise player? No. But that doesn't make him a bust. It's actually a pretty good pick, unless your contention is that 90% of top 10 picks are busts (which it may be for you).

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

It doesn't matter because Rogers is gone, gone, gone, gone after this season. And probably so too should Smoot. Hall is not a shutdown cover corner that's for sure. They need to spend some money on another good corner or two. They may get some CAP relief when Samuels and Thomas retire. But of this I am not sure?

Posted by: periculum | October 28, 2009
3:30 PM | Report abuse

No DHall is not Deion Sanders, nor is he Chmap Bailey or Namandi Asamagoguyhoayuuohaoahah.

But he's a legit #1 corner in this league, and it's fair to pay him as such.

The rumblings from the Rogers camp is that he views himself as a #1 corner and expects to get paid as such.

If it's true, that's ludicrous and we should let someone else pay him.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

The issue is that the elite QB doesn't exists in this draft.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17
========

Well scouting out college players isn't really my thing, so I don't know much about who's available now and who will be the year after. How confident are you that a middle 1st round pick QB in 2011 will be better than the best QB in 2010?

Posted by: REXskins | October 28, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

The new coach/GM needs to hire an up and coming o-line guy for Buges to mentor as an o-line coach. This will do two things:

A. Give Bugel a fresh mind that has worked with recent NFL offenses.

2. Build deep coaching depth, so Bugel can leave a legacy coach that will carry on his smarts.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 28, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

agree with moe....time to make a complete and total coaching change-over....

anyone heard from CL today?? perhaps he's still drowning his sorrows...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Well scouting out college players isn't really my thing, so I don't know much about who's available now and who will be the year after. How confident are you that a middle 1st round pick QB in 2011 will be better than the best QB in 2010?

Posted by: REXskins

Geez! Do not draft a QB in the draft for the next two years. I'm sick of wasting picks. Fix the damn line first and then the QB.

Posted by: dcwun | October 28, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

"Portis and Betts contracts."


Sometimes you have to let go to get going.

Whatever Clinton Portis meant no longer has the outright speed to have true value.

Watch a replay of the skins game and you'll notice that when he's in open space, Portis can't breakaway for a long run.

Portis and LaDaninian Tomlinson aren't the guys they used to be as Cedric Benson, Chris Johnson, Frank Gore, and Adrian Peterson are.

We need speed and versitility out of the backfield, no a running back who has only one play he runs well.

And it's a 'stretch' now to suggest that he does.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 28, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse


I was wondering when we'd come around to Buges... he's one of the constants to point at as well in the diminishing line performance.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 28, 2009 3:30 PM

Even Buges can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Or even a hog out of a sow's rear.

Posted by: League-Source

I agree. Buges may be a great o-line coach, but he cannot coach speed and strength. Heyer is all he is going to be. Rabach is marginal and he is as good as he will ever be. Montgomery plays with a lot of heart, but he's not starter material. Neither, it seems, is Rhinehart. Maybe Levi Jones brings something new to the mix and maybe BMW will continue to improve, but they will need to finish strong to get consideration for next year.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 28, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

"The argument you were making had to do with pegging Rogers' value to the performance of the defense he plays on.

Now you are going off on a tangent and introducing a new dimension unrelated to the previous one: making an argument based on Rogers' performance relative to other starting CBs on other teams."

What does the fact that the two 'dimensions' are (supposedly) unrelated to each other have to do with discrediting the argument? They're both related to the initial argument. Carlos Rogers is a good corner because (a) he contributes a significant workload to the #3 rated and defense, and (b) he doesn't give up as many yards or TDs as most starting corners in the league. How could this possibly be misconstrued?

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Suppose we do go OL first round and thereafter, and then our offense improves at least enough to have us go 7-9, or 8-8. Well it's nice to see improvement there, but then the following year our draft position puts us out of range of the #1 QB for that draft. So this coming year is our best chance to get that elite QB we've always wanted.

So now after considering that, I'm pretty torn on the issue. I now lean towards QB first round (if we can get the first or 2nd best), and OL thereafter, with free agent attention to the OL as well.

Posted by: REXskins
______________________

Exactly where I'm at on this - torn but now leaning towards QB first round 2010, for those reasons.

Posted by: chasgiffen | October 28, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Agreed that the ingredients aren't there. But aside from his first tenure here, when has he run a top line in this league?

He's near the twilight of his career and I'm sure techniques have changed.

The new guy will probably clean house on staff anyway... moot point, I guess.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 28, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

psps23

Look at who was selected in the top 10 of Rogers' own draft.

Alex Smith
Ronnie Brown
Braylon Edwards
Cedric Benson
Cadillac Williams
Pacman Jones
Troy Williamson
Antrel Rolle
Carlos Rogers
Mike Williams (WR)


Ronnie Brown
Cedric Benson
Antrel Rolle
Carlos Rogers
Alex Smith (maybe, maybe not)

These guys aren't all that bad.

Folks just want Rogers to be the second coming of Darrel Green, and he's not.

Special players like Green come once in a generation.

Rogers is just what he is: a 1st round draft pick.

Nothing less, nothing more.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 28, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Folks just want Rogers to be the second coming of Darrel Green, and he's not.

Special players like Green come once in a generation.

Rogers is just what he is: a 1st round draft pick.

Nothing less, nothing more.

Posted by: MistaMoe

-----------

Exactly.

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

DikShuttle,
You're right. Any new guy is going to want to clean house - assuming the situation is such that they can, so the Buges conversation is moot. Still, there are great offensive lines out there filled with first and second round picks, and I wonder what Buges could do with a group of athletes drafted at the top of their class.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 28, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

I just think that taking a quarterback first is a riskier propisition then trading down and getting a couple of solid o-line guys.

Instead of building a team, by drafting a QB you're putting all your eggs in one person's basket, and the pass or fail of the team depends solely on that one person.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 28, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Portis and LaDaninian Tomlinson aren't the guys they used to be as Cedric Benson, Chris Johnson, Frank Gore, and Adrian Peterson are.

We need speed and versitility out of the backfield, no a running back who has only one play he runs well.

I think Larry Brown was a fifth round draft pick. Portis himself wasn't a 1st rounder, nor was Betts. Nor Sproles. You probably can find this in the lower rounds. And you pay less for it there. Portis is going to get paid the most of any running back in history. So, he plays. Betts contract isn't small. So he plays. There is also Cartwright. All three also block. In other words you have plenty of folks to play that position until 2011 when things change.

What YOU DON"T have are TOP NOTCH young bookend tackles. That is something this team had and it was a strength, if not the strength back in 2001. They need to get that back. NOW. There is no more time to wait to do this. There is PLENTY, oooodles, tons of time to wait to do something at running back.

To believe otherwise is Snyderato thinking>

Posted by: periculum | October 28, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

psps23,

It's cool if you want to keep defending Rogers. I personally think you value him too highly, but we can argue all day about it. I think the biggest thing that can dent our positions will be the level of interest (either via trade or free agency) that Rogers gets this offseason, assuming we get rid of him. Personally, I believe that CB's who can't catch won't attract too much attention...

Posted by: mattylight | October 28, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

yeh. We've been wondering that all around. Of course, with the quality of picks we've made - they prolly would be carpola 1 & 2 round linemen anyway... ugh.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 28, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

beep

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 28, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

"I think the biggest thing that can dent our positions will be the level of interest (either via trade or free agency) that Rogers gets this offseason, assuming we get rid of him."

Well, I'd be mildly shocked if Rogers wasn't on the roster next season. Unless a team offers the Redskins a significant deal for him (like a 1st round selection), Rogers will be back. Only the most inept front office would let Rogers walk and use assets to replace him with the mountain of other needs already clearly visible. Of course, this is where Vinny enters.

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Bottom line: You have a choice between Rogers and say Smoot, Justin Tryon, current flop draft pick Kevin Barnes, and Byron Westbrook. YOU PICK ROGERS to start.

Posted by: periculum | October 28, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

I agree that the team is bad and the oline is bad, yes. But please explain to me how the Oline has caused JC to fumble 10 times in 20 sacks (according to nfl dot com) this year, as opposed to last year when he only fumbled 7 times in 38 sacks……how have the oline and running backs caused his RATE OF FUMBLES to increase? Last year he fumbled one per every 5.5 sacks….this year it’s once per every other sack. Is the oline knocking the ball out of his hands this year?


Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 28, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Most of JCs fumbles are on snaps in shotgun formation. Most of those are bad snaps but a couple are of them are on JC just not catching the ball. That's why he's fumbled 10 times but only lost 3. The ones he lost are due to poor ball protection during blind side rushes. He needs to start tucking the ball and running when he senses pressure. He also needs to lower his stance so he can pick the ball up when Rabach eventually botches a snap. So the 10 fumbles are JC, Rabach, and Heyer's fault. The more shotgun we do the more fumbles you will see. The crappier the protection, the more shotgun you will see.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 28, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

If I'm the Redskins I am going to try to play the best guys I have up on the OL. So, perhaps I move Heyer to RG and put Levi Jones in at Left Tackle. Or I shift Williams to left tackle and put Jone at right tackle. They need to get the running attack going again and Williams returning to left tackle might just do it. Bugel has the entire Bye to determine who is ready and who is not.

Posted by: periculum | October 28, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

The more shotgun we do the more fumbles you will see. The crappier the protection, the more shotgun you will see.

Which is why I think you may see Williams move back to familiar territory at left tackle. Should bolster the running attack. Heyer, their designated swing man, would move to right guard. Right tackle for Levi Jones. Its probably the best this team can do right now.

Posted by: periculum | October 28, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Which is why I think you may see Williams move back to familiar territory at left tackle. Should bolster the running attack. Heyer, their designated swing man, would move to right guard. Right tackle for Levi Jones. Its probably the best this team can do right now.

Posted by: periculum | October 28, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

That's smart. I didn't even think of moving Heyer to guard. I don't know how good Levi is but he's got to be better than Heyer.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 28, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

HOW ARE THE REDSKINS AND THEIR FANS FOOLISH?

Reading the debate on Carlos Rogers is a prime example. Redskin fans don't have a clue on serviceable or solid players. All they want is a bunch of All Pros at every position. Carlos Rogers is just fine for an NFL CB. he is not Neon Deon Sanders, nor darryl Green nor champ bailey. but he is a solid CB that provides support in the running game and does not get beat often. (and all NFL CB get beat!)

the problem is this, the Redskins get rid of Carlos Rogers. They have no viable replacement on the roster so they have to draft, trade or sign another free agent. A good CB is a 1st round draft pick, typically top 10. While you play that scenario out, the same scenario is about to be played with the QB position for the second time in 10 years. Really the 3rd time in 15 years if you recall Heath Shuler. (the QB position should not be in this much flux.)

The same scenario needs to be played out in the OL, RB and LB positions as well. So where do the Redskins get all this talent when they have decent NFL talent in-house at the CB position? You all are hooked on the Vinny Cerrato GM model. the common comment on the Skins is they don't value their own talent. Antonio Peirce is a prime example.

I'll add this too. Jason Campbell needs to be kept to be the transition QB while they find another QB. yeah, JC is not peyton manning, but until the Redskins draft a decent QB why sign some end of the road bum to fill the position. We sat here when Spurrier tried to proclaim shane Matthews and Danny Wuerffel as starting NFL QBs. Be realistic fans and deal with the fact this team needs to rebuild and it takes time.

Posted by: oknow1 | October 28, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

I just listened to Chris Cooley's post-surgery phone call to a radio station.

Jim Zorn showed up and watched the surgery. He's a great human being for doing that and caring that much about his players. Of course since Vinny took his playcalling away, Zorn pretty much could miss practice and it wouldn't matter.

Posted by: CJMARTIN04 | October 28, 2009 7:36 PM | Report abuse

cooley ran like he had 2 broken ankles already, hope the team doesn't rush him back, sure would like to see him and Davis in some 2 TE sets

Posted by: coparker5 | October 28, 2009 10:49 PM | Report abuse

While this season was always 'iffy' when the FO didn't address the O line issues in the offseason, it really went to h*** in a handbasket when it was decided to keep only 2 QBs on the roster. I still can't figure out how Chase Daniel shrunk in size from the time they signed him til the time they cut him. If they knew Brennan was going on IR, they should have kept 3 QBs. I'm not saying Chase is the answer (or Colt for that matter) but it just shows the continuing DUMB AND DUMBER decisions made by the management of this franchise when it comes to personnel

Posted by: wydafish | October 29, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Boycott Suggestion

Let's boycott Papa John. Their toppings for TDs has become a complete joke.

Go to their Feedback URL and let them know that they're being boycotted.

http://www.papajohns.com/feedback/feedback_form.shtm?agree=0

Here are my comments in the Papa John boycott.

While I have enjoyed your products in the past, I am respectfully boycotting your store at not only Fedex Field but all stores because as a loyal Redskin fan I am tired of being emotionally and physically abused by Mr. Daniel Snyder. He has turned your promotion of Toppings for Touchdowns into a sad joke.

Posted by: gogmu012 | October 29, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

"Within four weeks he will have lost his job to Fred Davis. Put him on IR."

Lets be clear, Cooley should be placed on IR because he is our most consistent Offensive weapon and unless the Skins win the three or four games played in his absence there is no need to expose him to further injury. NOT because Fred Davis is going to develop into a better player. Davis is good and has potential to play a bigger role but he is not better than Cooley.

Posted by: bhickson | October 29, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

We need at least three Olineman in this years draft. The OT from Oklahoma State, Russell Okung, would be great plus a couple of guards. Okung starts at LT, let Edwin Williams develop and maybe compete with Rabach in 2010. Mike Willimas moves to RG, Levi Jones moves to RT, Heyer becomes the back up swing tackle, Draft pick competes with Dock for LG. A SLB needs to be drafted in round 2 so that Orakpo can play with his hand in the drit full time We do not need a MLB London got one or two more years and I really like HB Blades to take over. Marko Mitchell needs to see more PT. We also need young RB to take over and well as some depth in the secondary.

Posted by: bhickson | October 29, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Not that he's completely to blame for the mess created by Vinny and Danny, but the Redskins organization would benefit from firing Zorn and starting the house cleaning process. Perhaps Jerry Gray in an interim role will get the players to pull together, but I think too much damage has been done on and off the field. It seems that many of the players have written off the season and are playing for their jobs only.

With Zorn gone, Cerrato will be the one held responsible at season end for the disaster that the franchise has become since Danny won't be accountable. With Cerrato fired in early-January, Danny will hopefully do the right thing and admit to the many mistakes he's made in trying to run the franchise. He'll hire a GM/President of Football Operations and will stay out of day-to-day operations accept for marketing.

Fully empowered GM will then conduct a thorough such for a head coach (not just a name like Gruden, Shanahan, etc) and will then let that person hire his own staff. The front office will then spend Feb. - April trading/releasing players who have no future with a rebuilding team. Draft picks acquired will be used to rebuild the offensive line and replace aging veterans at other spots. Only FA signings should be offensive lineman to help stabilize a young line.

Posted by: wizfan89 | October 29, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

League-S., I think you are totally correct. FD has the ability and potential to truly rival CC for the starting spot, especially with the probability of new GM and coaches next year.

Posted by: RT14 | October 29, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

Don't bring CC back this year -- nothing to be gained.
Let's face it, the season is a bust -- though our D will keep us in a lot of games that the offense won't win.
So put in some young guys where is Chase Daniel these days?) and see what they can do.

Posted by: jaybird2 | October 30, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Splitting Hairs.

Maybe it was the hair that looked the color of the villain in Cold Mountain. But probably more likely the 8 catches from Davis as a replacement but it wasn't too sad to see Cooley go. That hair would look better on Heyer. There is an inevitable feeling of failure that clouds the football season. But when a young talent is waiting in the wing to step up (at least for the position) not all seems lost. Experience. A possible fixture of the future gains experience. The first of his draft class to have a notable game receiving. Then again with the O line having no depth to speak of they could have handed it off to him 8 times as a H-back.

Posted by: chavez66 | October 31, 2009 10:38 PM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2010 The Washington Post Company